Latest / Finding God at Work / 15: Resisting Workplace De-Formation (Pastor Daniel Small)

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15: Resisting Workplace De-Formation (Pastor Daniel Small) · Finding God at Work

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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  This is Finding God at Work.
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  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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  isn't just a podcast.
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  It's also an online course.
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  Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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  Our current series is Meaningful Work, Calling, Formation,
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  Service, and Love.
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  And today we have a guest with us,
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  Daniel Small, the pastor of Community Groups at
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  Christ Community Church here in the Fox Valley.
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  Thanks for joining us, Daniel.
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  Yeah, of course.
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  Happy to be here.
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  Thanks for having me, Chris.
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  And Daniel and I have connected about faith
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  and work.
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  That's part of your role too over there
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  at the church, which is great.
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  So as we get started, just for listeners
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  who may not know you, since the title
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  of the podcast is Finding God at Work,
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  what helps you find God at work on
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  a normal workday for you?
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  I love that question.
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  Yeah.
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  So one of the things that I really
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  enjoy doing is at the end of my
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  week, I almost do an adapted prayer of
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  examen sort of thing.
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  So at the end of my week, I'll
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  review just the meetings, interactions.
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  I'll go through my calendar and just express
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  gratitude for those things, the things that I
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  had, the interactions that I had.
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  And just noticing God's presence, where he showed
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  up in my week, and some of the
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  things that I'm grateful for.
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  It just helps me be more attuned, I
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  think, and attentive to the Holy Spirit and
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  how he's working throughout my day and throughout
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  my week.
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  And so I do that.
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  And then I look forward to the week
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  ahead.
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  So then I pray through the things that
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  I have coming up for the week ahead.
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  Maybe it's a meeting or a project that
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  I'm working on and just try to invite
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  God into that and ask him to be
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  present in it.
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  And it also helps me recall and remember
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  things that are really important sometimes.
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  Oh, God, thank you for bringing that to
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  my attention.
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  So I have found that to be something
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  that has been really beneficial for me at
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  the end of my work week.
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  That's great.
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  I love that it's not just looking back,
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  but also looking ahead.
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  Heading off our tendency to look at the
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  future with anxiety by welcoming God's presence in
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  from the get-go.
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  That's fantastic.
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  So thinking about your own vocational journey, maybe
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  it would be helpful for listeners just to
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  hear a little bit of what that journey
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  has been.
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  Because you kind of have an interesting mix
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  of things over time.
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  So yeah, let's start with that.
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  And then I have a few questions for
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  you.
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  Yeah, it's been an interesting vocational journey.
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  So I graduated from Wheaton with my degree
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  in business and econ.
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  And during my time at Wheaton, I thought
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  I wanted to be an entrepreneur.
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  I noticed that I really liked creating and
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  starting new things.
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  And I thought to myself, man, I think
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  I want to be an entrepreneur.
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  I didn't know in what yet, but I
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  just noticed that that was kind of my
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  bend.
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  And but I was really passionate about the
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  intersection of culture and faith.
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  That was something that I was really passionate
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  about.
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  And so for a while, I was thinking,
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  like, I don't know if I want to
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  go into church ministry or if I want
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  to go into business.
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  And so I didn't do either of those
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  things.
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  And I started working at Wheaton College when
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  I first graduated.
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  And it's kind of a long story.
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  But basically, I had known somebody there.
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  They offered me a job.
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  And I was like, I think I'm going
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  to take it.
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  And backing up just a little bit, the
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  first summer I graduated, I worked.
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  I don't know if you know this or
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  not, but I worked for a digital marketing
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  company and a church plant.
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  At the same time.
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  At the same time.
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  OK.
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  The pastor who had started this church also
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  owned the digital marketing company.
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  He was bivocational.
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  And he was like, the digital marketing company
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  can pay you.
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  The church can't.
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  But you can do both of those things
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  if you want.
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  I'm bivocational, so you can be bivocational.
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  Exactly.
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  Yeah.
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  I was like, OK, great.
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  You know, that's awesome.
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  So anyways, I did that and thought the
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  digital marketing company work was really interesting.
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  Had a really difficult time at the church
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  plant.
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  And I was like, I don't think this
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  is for me.
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  And so then I went to one of
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  the career people at Wheaton at the time,
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  had a good relationship with.
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  And she was like, hey, what if you
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  worked here for a little while?
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  And so that was kind of my first
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  full-time gig out of college and was
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  doing that.
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  And I noticed that I loved helping students.
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  I loved coaching.
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  I loved that kind of one-on-one,
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  helping someone get from point A to point
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  B.
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  And then I had realized, like, man, I
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  had not landed in really either the church
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  world or in the business world, like I
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  thought.
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  And most successful entrepreneurs seem to start in
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  kind of that consulting route.
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  And I didn't know exactly what I wanted
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  to do.
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  And getting paid to solve problems for people
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  sounded heroic.
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  So yeah, I am somewhat of a competitive
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  person.
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  So I started studying business cases and doing
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  all those things.
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  And then, yeah, eventually I landed what I
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  thought was my dream job at a really
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  large consulting firm, one of the big four.
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  And I was traveling, making a lot of
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  money, and doing really interesting work.
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  It was really great.
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  But a couple years into it, I just
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  felt this like kind of tension where I
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  was like, man, I feel like this is
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  really important work, but this isn't the work
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  that I feel like God has for me.
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  And it was really interesting to come to
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  that conclusion.
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  And after a lot of prayer and kind
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  of discernment, I ended up deciding to go
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  into a vocational church ministry setting.
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  And there's kind of obviously a long story
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  behind that and why I ended up choosing
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  that path.
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  So yeah, I've been now at Christ Community
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  for the past three years now.
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  So I've got sort of an eclectic background
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  of higher ed, consulting, and now working in
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  a church ministry setting.
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  So yeah, that's my journey.
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  I think listeners will really appreciate that.
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  As we've been talking about calling, we've talked
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  about how sometimes you're in a spot, and
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  then you're in a different spot later on.
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  Sometimes you feel really called to something, but
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  what's putting food on the table is something
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  different.
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  And so I think that kind of eclectic
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  mix is more common than not.
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  For a lot of us in this series
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  that we're doing on Meaningful Work, we're kind
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  of turning the corner from talking about calling
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  to talking about formation.
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  So looking at your work experience, kind of
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  any chapter of it, is there a moment
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  where you feel like your work itself was
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  especially important to your spiritual growth?
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  Oh, that's great.
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  Yeah.
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  So when I think of formation, I think
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  of two sides of it.
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  There's formation and then there's counter formation.
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  I don't know if you want me to
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  speak just to the formation side.
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  Either way.
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  Deformation, reformation.
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  Well, OK.
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  There's a particular story that comes to mind
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  on the deformation side of things.
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  So when I was in consulting, it was
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  very fast-paced work and very demanding with
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  high expectations.
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  And I had noticed that generally I just
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  became a more anxious person.
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  I was just generally more anxious.
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  Even work outside of work, I was always
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  thinking about work, though.
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  I mean, it would be 11 o'clock
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  and I'm like, oh my goodness.
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  I need to get ahead on this particular
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  thing.
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  And so it was stressful.
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  And one particular moment is, I don't know,
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  2, 3 in the morning.
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  I don't even remember this.
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  My wife told me this story.
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  But I wake up.
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  I don't wake up.
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  I'm still asleep.
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  But I'm like, I figured it out.
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  Size 10 aerial font.
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  And then I just went right back to
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  sleep.
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  Like head hit the pillow and that was
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  it.
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  My wife, she obviously thought it was hysterical.
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  She heard the whole thing.
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  Saw me sit up out of bed, say
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  that, and then go right back to sleep.
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  And she wrote it down because she was
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  like, this is what happens.
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  Apparently this was important.
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  There's some report or project you're working on
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  where you need to know this.
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  You need to know that you had figured
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  it out.
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  And this is the answer.
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  That's how often, though, I was working in
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  PowerPoint.
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  I was always thinking about font sizes and
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  all that stuff.
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  So anyways, so yeah, it affected my sleep
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  patterns and anxiety.
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  And so as a way to sort of
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  counter that, one of the things that I
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  had started doing was I put on my
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  work calendar a 30-minute block where I
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  was like, no matter how busy or stressful
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  or whatever my day is, I'm going to
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  take this 30 minutes.
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  And I'm going to eat lunch and go
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  on a prayer walk without my phone.
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  I'm just going to go on a prayer
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  walk in nature if I can.
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  And that was a very small thing.
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  And I don't think it solved all of
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  the problems, so to speak.
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  But I definitely noticed pausing in the middle
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  of my day to be with God changed
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  the trajectory, kind of reset me a little
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  bit, and helped me go into my other
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  meetings and other things I needed to do
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  with a much more clear mind and much
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  more at peace.
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  So I think that was something that was
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  really helpful for me.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  I resonate a lot with that vision of
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  anxiety.
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  And when you're in an intense work environment,
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  like working for a big four consulting company,
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  there can be really high expectations.
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  And for me as an achiever and a
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  performer, certainly I find my anxiety dialing into
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  those high expectations sometimes when those are there.
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  So a way to go figuring out how
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  to interrupt your own treadmill of anxiety, how
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  to hop off of the treadmill, so to
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  speak, with that walk.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  I'm just curious.
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  Well, I shouldn't presume.
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  I imagine that your current work at the
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  church has a different kind of intensity to
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  it than big four consulting.
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  But is that a practice you've continued?
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  Do you still do the prayer walk?
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  Or what does it look like for you
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  now?
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  Yeah, I still do that.
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  What I do now, though, is I incorporate
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  scripture memorization.
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  So I try to meditate on a verse,
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  one verse, as I go on a prayer
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  walk.
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  And that's kind of like my focus.
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  So I'll kind of work on memorizing that
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  one verse, and then I'll pray through it,
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  just as a way of talking with God
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  about it.
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  And that's just helped me kind of memorize
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  scripture and engage with God in that way.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  Wonderful.
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  In the church role, you also get to
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  work with everyday Christians and speaking into their
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  lives around faith and work.
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  So I'm curious about that, too.
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  Is there a specific story of maybe a
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  specific person or family where their life with
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  God and their life at work kind of
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  came together that you got to witness or
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  be part of in some way?
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  So one of the things that we started
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  doing probably about two years ago now at
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  our church is we launched a faith and
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  work cohort, which is kind of a small...
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  It's designed to be done with a small
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  group of interdisciplinary vocational fields.
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  And kind of going in and saying, OK,
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  we're going to spend some extended time thinking
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  about the integration of faith and work.
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  It's a 12-week course that we've designed.
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  And the very first one that we did
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  a couple years ago was one that I
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  was leading.
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  And there was one person in this cohort
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  who was like, you know, I don't really
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  know why exactly I'm here.
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  I just I found it to be interesting.
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  And I'm just curious, you know, and just
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  kind of exploring.
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  And like, well, thanks.
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  You know, thanks for being honest and thanks
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  for being here.
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  And one of the ideas that just really
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  struck her, and she'll talk about it to
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  this day, is just talking about this idea
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  of working for the common good.
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  And for her, that was something that was
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  just unlocked something in her.
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  So she works for a company that like
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  makes credit cards.
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  OK, sure.
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  And she would be like, you know, I
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  don't understand.
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  And she's the CFO of that company.
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  So she's like, I'll be honest.
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  I don't know how my work really connects
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  to faith.
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  And I'm just having a hard time seeing
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  that connection.
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  And for her, this idea of like that
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  your work is designed, like it's for the
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  flourishing of society.
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  And here's how.
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  And once she was able to draw some
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  of those lines of like, OK, here's how
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  my work helps other people flourish and actually
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  work.
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  And, you know, and obviously like credit.
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  And there's a whole lot of things there.
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  But multifaceted there is a way to connect
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  that to seeing how, you know, your work
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  is still good.
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  And so for her, like seeing how her
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  work benefits other people and serves other people
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  was just, I think, a really beautiful, a
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  beautiful idea for her.
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  And that that helped her approach her work
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  in a more, I think, a dignifying way.
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  She was much more engaged at work just
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  in terms of like, OK, this is something
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  that I'm helping benefit society and serving other
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  people in.
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  And so such a very simple idea for
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  her.
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  But it unlocks something significant.
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  And now she's on our faith and work
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  leadership team.
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  And she will still talk about that, that
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  idea.
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  She's like, this was really helpful for me.
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  And I'm grateful for it.
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  So, yeah, that's what I would say.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  As a kind of preacher, teacher type myself,
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  I love it when like a phrase or
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  an idea can just make the light bulb
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  turn on for somebody like that.
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  That's so encouraging.
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  And I love that idea, too.
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  Even like the plastic manufacturing piece of our
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  financial system.
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  Like when I go and buy my groceries
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  at Aldi every week, I got to tap
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  something to pay for it, right?
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  And that's part of a very significant part
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  of my life with me and my family
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  eating what we eat that week.
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  Totally.
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  Yeah.
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  So that's really beautiful.
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  Well, I wish we had more time to
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  keep going, but I want to keep this
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  commute length podcast to that length.
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  Often at the end of the episode, we
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  pray.
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  So I like to invite guests to pray
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  as well.
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  So if you wouldn't mind, would you be
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  willing to just pray for our listeners for
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  the things we've talked about?
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  I'd be happy to, yeah.
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  Father, God, we are grateful for work and
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  the gift of work.
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  God, I pray for anybody who is listening
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  to this.
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  And they are wondering how their work connects
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  to your work and the larger story of
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  what you're doing in the world.
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  God, I pray that they would see how
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  their work matters and why it matters to
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  you, God, and the difference that it's making
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  in our world.
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  God, I pray for all of us who
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  are being formed through our work.
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  God, I pray that we would find intentional
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  practices to meet you through our work, God,
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  and that we would encounter you in those
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  very spaces where we least expect it in
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  our work.
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  And that because of that, God, that we
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  would learn to commune with you through our
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  everyday work.
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  We love you.
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  It's your name that we pray.
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  Amen.