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Ep. 8 - Was Nimrod a Freemason? · Martyr's Row

• 0:01
  Andrew was the brother of Peter. He preached
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  the gospel to many Asiatic nations. But on his
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  arrival at Edessa, he was taken and crucified
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  on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed
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  transversely in the ground. Hence the derivation
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  of the term St. Andrew's Cross. And we're back.
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  Hey. Welcome back to Martyrs Row. Hey, welcome
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  back. You know, that's one thing I've noticed.
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  Yeah? About reading about these martyrs. Okay.
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  Is that they all died. Yeah, good point. But
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  in sometimes some like really harsh ways. Yeah.
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  And so this one in particular with Andrew. Yeah.
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  We talked about him being crucified. Yeah. And
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  it got me thinking. I learned this recently.
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  You may already know this. You're a smart little
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  cookie. I like being a cookie. What kind of cookie
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  would you be if you were a cookie? That's a whole...
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  I don't even know how to answer that. Some kind
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  of Myers -Briggs breakdown. I feel like I would
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  be a cookie that's not quite done yet. Like a
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  no -bake cookie? A no -bake cookie? That sounds
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  like a brand. A no -bake? A no -bake? I think
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  that's just easy bake oven. Anything that anyone's
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  ever done. I'm like a cookie that when you flip
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  it over, it looks different. Actually, I could
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  see that. That makes a lot of sense. It's like,
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  oh, I thought this was one thing, but it's definitely
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  something else. I think I like it. I'll have
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  to try. But does that mean you eat the top of
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  it independently? Oh, okay. Do you have to cut
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  it horizontal? Is that how you eat that or just
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  they both blend together? It's all part of the
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  gumbo. Yeah, I'm thinking it's not like a layered
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  cookie. Oh, it just looks different. Yeah, like
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  they intended to have everything part of what
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  was going on and then they flipped it over. And
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  there was still some stuff on the pan that got
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  underneath the dough. Like, oops. Yeah. So, like,
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  it looks like a fruitcake underneath for some
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  reason. But on top, it's like a chocolate chip
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  cookie. I don't know. I like where it's going.
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  It's like stained glass underneath. That'd actually
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  be kind of cool. I know. Well, you don't want
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  to eat stained glass. No, but I think it looks
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  cool. Well, fruitcake kind of looks like that.
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  It does. There's a lot of stuff going on in there.
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  Yeah. I kind of stay away from those. Well, so,
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  in other news, I learned this recently, and so
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  I was thinking about it while I was reading about
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  Andrew. Yeah, yeah. And it was the word excruciate.
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  Okay. Because that's a pretty intense word. Yeah.
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  And so that word actually is derived from the
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  pain that's felt during crucifixion. Oh, really?
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  And so I was like, oh, let me look at kind of
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  the etymology of this word. Yeah, because like
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  did somebody from a cross yell out excruciate?
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  Excruciate! Is this like how words are invented?
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  It kind of is, though. So the word excruciate
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  is derived from the pain associated with being
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  crucified. It means to torture, torment, inflict,
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  or very severe pain on. As if by crucifying.
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  Kind of crazy. Yeah. So it's from the Latin excruciatus,
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  past participle of excruciare. Sometimes Latin
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  feels like a made -up language when you read
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  it backwards like this. Yeah. Like it's almost
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  a word I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not quite. But
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  like sounds like you were trying to be fancy.
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  Trying to make it a little French or something.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and that means to torment.
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  To torture, torment, wrack, or plague. Figuratively
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  to afflict, harass, vex, torment. So from X.
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  Those are a lot of synonyms. Out of or thoroughly.
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  And plus cruciere, which is cause pain or anguish
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  to literally crucify. And that comes from crux
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  across. So excruciating pain is calling back
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  to crucifixion. Yeah. So it's like being crucified.
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  Which is considered the worst way to die. Yeah.
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  And so they're like, okay, so this is the worst
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  amount of pain someone could go through is excruciating
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  because it's associated to the worst way you
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  could possibly die. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah.
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  Yeah. I guess that's how words work. Yeah. It's
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  kind of interesting, right? That actually does
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  kind of make sense. But when I think about that,
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  I think we commonly go to Jesus because that's
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  a... He's a... Pretty popular cross -dier. Yeah.
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  I don't think anyone's wearing a cross around
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  their neck. No, thinking of Andrew. And it's
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  referring to somebody else, yeah. But you think
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  it's like, oh, like Jesus wasn't the only person
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  to die this way. Right. It doesn't diminish the
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  pain that he went through, but it's like there
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  are martyrs that believed in what he said so
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  much that they were willing to go through the
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  worst kind of pain to proclaim the glory and
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  the honor that he deserves. Yeah. Yeah, that's
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  actually a good point. I mean, that's interesting.
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  I feel like this stuff is all layered throughout.
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  It's like acknowledging the fact that what happened
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  on the cross and while God incarnate was on the
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  earth 2 ,000 years later influences a bunch of
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  secular things in a way that no one really acknowledges.
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  Yeah, true, because we just throw that word out
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  sometimes. Yeah. and that makes sense but um
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  no like i uh oh that's what i was i was trying
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  to interrupt you because i had a thought that
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  and i'm glad i was trying to interrupt i'm glad
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  i stopped because i because your point was great
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  thanks it just made me think of like if if someone's
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  cross if someone's wearing a cross and it's referring
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  to someone else that died on the cross first
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  of all that's crazy that would be wild but It
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  makes me think of the satanic cult of Upside
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  Down Cross representation. The funny thing is,
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  if they were referring to somebody else, they
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  could be referring to Andrew and honoring Andrew.
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  Yeah, that's true. But they're definitely not.
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  I don't think they are. I think that's one of
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  those as simple as it's a, ironically, because
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  they would wear it somewhat with pride. It's
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  ironically saying what we believe in is the...
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  Like the opposite. Yeah, it's the false version.
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  It's the imitation version of what's real. Yeah,
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  which is crazy to stand by. Yeah. Yeah. But it
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  also kind of lends to that yin and yang element.
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  Yeah, that's true. Which I feel like if we had
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  to make a bumper sticker or a t -shirt at some
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  point, it would probably say, this could be an
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  episode. That's half of what we say. And it could
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  just be that we're very early on in the podcast.
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  Can you put that on a pocket tee? I would love
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  to. I got to get that going. Yeah, you do. I
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  got to get that going. You do. I do. Yeah, we'll
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  put anything on a pocket tee. um you could put
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  that on a pocket yeah you could uh no so that
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  that's interesting actually that made me so that
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  makes me think about a little bit um so that
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  i was thinking about earlier today in cultural
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  references because i was thinking about i was
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  thinking about this today so um i love the office
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  which is like i feel like like if you looked
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  at me you'd be like yeah that guy would say that
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  Which is like, for me, that's also a thing where
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  I'm like, ah, then I don't really want to be
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  the person that says that. But the truth is I
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  like The Office a lot. I feel like that's such
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  like a millennial show. Yeah, for sure. And so
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  anyone who looks like a millennial, they're like,
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  Office. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point.
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  And they'd be right. It would be correct. And
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  I'm not like, I don't care to necessarily defend
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  it against any other show. That's not. that interesting
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  to me but um the thing that i the thing i was
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  thinking about with the office was cultural references
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  and understanding full context of storylines
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  and um references where if i meet someone new
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  and we're having a conversation i and then i
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  end up referencing the office without context
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  um which is not something that i would naturally
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  do but um they might do it or reference something
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  like that yeah then all of a sudden you're bonded
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  yeah true and so my my my non -theological question
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  in that and maybe the question you wouldn't expect
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  me to ask is like how much of that stuff do you
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  think we should actually like pay attention to
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  like should we be aware enough of um cultural
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  context like what is what is surrounding us in
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  the world at the moment like what is the storyline
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  yeah And that could include the most popular
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  show and what that show's premise is. You know
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  what I mean? Yeah, that's an interesting thought.
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  As a Christian in 2025, is that something that
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  we should think about? Should we be relevant
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  to, and not relevant to the culture, because
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  I actually disagree with that, but should we
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  be... understanding of the cultural context in
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  such a way where we still know the shorthand.
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  Yeah. Yeah. Just thinking about like Paul, you
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  know what I mean? I think with that, it's like,
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  I think yes. Um, and because like we're doing
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  that with scripture and so tying in, it's like,
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  what are they talking about? What's their cultural?
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  Cause they. I mean, we see it in the letters
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  of Paul. We see it all throughout scripture.
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  They make references as like a cultural reference
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  that they would get. Yeah, yeah. It's like this
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  is common knowledge. You guys would understand
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  this. Yeah. I mean, even I'm going through Kings
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  right now. And constantly it's like, yeah, this
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  is already written about in the Book of Chronicles.
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  Yeah. So just go read that. Yeah, I don't have
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  to tell you. It's already written down somewhere
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  else. Like you get it. Yeah, I feel like it's
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  more like that in the Old Testament, honestly.
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  Especially in the Old Testament because there's
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  a lot of crossovers. But it's like, I feel like,
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  yeah, we should do that because everything comes
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  from something. Yeah. And so we should be aware
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  of what we're, like, where does something come
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  from? But should we? But then also that brings
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  up the other funny side. It's like, yeah, but
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  sometimes it's like, who cares that much? Well,
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  that's the thing. And it's like, is that wrong
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  to say? But I also feel like that's a thing.
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  Oh, yeah. Like, the idea of not being engaged
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  in something is also being engaged in a culture
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  who's not engaged. Meaning, like, every group
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  or subgroup has their thing. Yeah. And so, like,
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  at some point, in order to, like, Paul says,
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  be all things to all people in order that you
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  might reach them. And, like, that's kind of one
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  of the things that I think about in that context
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  is, like, maybe... Maybe there is something to
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  keeping up with what the cultural language is
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  so that you can speak Christ into it. Yeah. However,
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  I feel like maybe the limitation is more so like,
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  don't try and know everybody's culture. Yeah.
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  Maybe just do the stuff that you're actually
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  interested in, even though it is like secular.
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  Because I feel like there are those things that
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  aren't wrong. They're just not beneficial. Sure.
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  You know, and it's, I feel like there are a lot
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  of things like that. And I'm actually exclusively
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  talking about non -beneficial things. Yeah. Yeah.
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  But it's like, it's not hurtful. It's just not
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  beneficial. Right. It's like, it's just like,
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  it's just junk food basically. But should we
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  delve into the non -beneficial in order to benefit
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  some? I think, yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I
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  think the other side is like, it's good for us
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  too. I think it's good to have, here's my unpopular
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  opinion maybe. The way I've said it in the past
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  is I think everyone should have a vice. And they're
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  the typical ones that people think of. You can
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  have your own opinion about that. But it's like
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  other things where it's like, do you like watching
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  Love is Blind or Survivor? I think that's a vice.
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  It's not different. Yeah. And I think that's
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  good. Because it's like you need something to
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  help you kind of. um, unwind. Okay. From stuff.
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  It's like, I, studying the word is great, but
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  if you do that 24 hours a day, every day, you're
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  going to get worn out and you're going to get
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  tired. And it's like, you need that time to like,
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  let me just take a quick break and just like,
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  that is kind of a hot take because, because it
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  is a hot take. It is because it's like, like,
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  I, I think my natural inclination is to be like,
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  yeah, but the truth is, is like, I don't know.
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  Like me, meaning, It's like, should we read the
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  word all day, every day? It's like, well, technically
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  there are other outward functions. So the answer
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  is no. But that doesn't necessarily mean watch
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  Love is Blind. You know what I mean? It actually
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  means maybe go out and spend some time doing
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  the evangelistic side of it. Sure. You know what
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  I mean? Like putting it in practice. Yeah. So
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  that is the other side of it. I feel like there
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  is some of that where it's like, there is some
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  of that cultural reference where to have downtime
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  a little bit and be able to actually like, yeah,
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  like actually engage in something that you're
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  potentially interested in. Yeah. I don't know.
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  Cause the idea of downtime though is tough. I
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  feel like some of that goes into the idea of
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  a Sabbath. Okay. Where it's like, okay, yeah,
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  work six days. and then rest on the seventh day.
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  Then it goes into the question, like, well, what
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  does rest look like? Well, what is Sabbath for,
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  right? Yeah, what's for us? It is for us, but
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  a lot of it's reflection on God. Yeah. It's like
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  remembering the faithfulness of God in order
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  to refuel for the next week. Yeah, absolutely.
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  So it's like, yeah, because all of the Sabbath
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  tradition or Shabbat tradition is all about...
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  um, reflection as a family on scripture about
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  the faithfulness of God. Yeah. So that's the
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  thing is like, it's true. You know, like that's
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  not, uh, not to like give free promotion over
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  and over again to love is blind, but well, I
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  feel like stuff like that even it's like, um,
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  we'll, we'll pick on the office. We'll go back
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  to that. So we don't just harp on love is blind.
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  It seems worse than the office somehow. Yeah.
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  At least cause there's real people, but it's
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  the vice element though. Yeah, I think with that
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  it's like, and vice is a strong word to use.
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  I use it on purpose because of that. Why though?
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  Because I think it's funny. Well, we were talking
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  about excruciate. Yeah. So why is vice strong?
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  Or why can't it be strong? It has a rough connotation.
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  We hear it. Yeah. Because we kind of put it in
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  a couple categories. Yeah, except like Romans
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  1 though, Paul just names a bunch of things all
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  together. And I think for some of us, we would
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  read that and be like, I don't think I would
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  put all these things together, but he does. Yeah,
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  that's true. So I think in some ways, your name
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  is Paul, so you're allowed to do that. Nice.
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  That's my favorite thing. I guess with that as
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  part of that reflection, I think we can enjoy
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  with humor. We can enjoy with go take a nice
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  long walk. And it's like, I think... Part of
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  reflecting and enjoying the faithfulness of God
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  and what he's done is enjoying the creation that
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  he's made. Yeah, true. And that can look like,
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  let me just, this is going to sound super 2025
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  of me, but it's like, yeah, let's just enjoy
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  the moment. Let's embrace where we are right
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  now. That sounds very 70s. Actually, you're right.
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  It's not 2025. It's pretty old. But like that
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  idea of like, yeah, let's let's kind of enjoy
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  what's around us, what God is doing. Yeah. And
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  what he has done. And I think there's a lot of
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  ways that that can look. And I think advice can
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  help us put us into that place where we can do
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  those things. Yeah. I maybe it's like maybe it's
• 17:41
  like the idea of like whenever somebody is into
• 17:44
  something, they're identified as that. Yeah.
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  So like, uh, there's a guy that I see that runs
• 17:51
  all the time. Like I see him run a couple of
• 17:54
  times a day. Um, like close to where I live.
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  So it's like that guy, I'm like, Oh, that guy
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  is a runner. You know what I mean? And that's
• 18:04
  his vice. Yeah. Yeah. It's running. Yeah. Like
• 18:07
  that's part of his vice. Yeah. And to some degree,
• 18:12
  like a negative vice. Hmm. that we would say
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  as being negative um is more so done in the dark
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  potentially true but the truth is is like if
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  he's running instead of like watching his kids
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  then like that's still that's pretty bad yeah
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  because he's neglecting what he should be doing
• 18:31
  yeah exactly yeah true so in some ways it's it's
• 18:34
  not necessarily what they're doing yeah that's
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  bad per se that's fair but that it's taking attention
• 18:40
  away from what they're supposed to be doing Yeah.
• 18:43
  And that's kind of what I mean is like if I watch
• 18:45
  a full season of The Office, but I like don't
• 18:49
  spend time in scripture that day. Yeah. Or if
• 18:51
  I spend time in scripture so that I can watch
• 18:53
  a full season of The Office. You know what I
• 18:55
  mean? Yeah. But my question is less that and
• 18:58
  more so like I think it's beneficial to know
• 19:02
  cultural things for the people I feel called
• 19:07
  to. Maybe that's the best way to say it. Yeah.
• 19:10
  So like if I don't feel called to a specific
• 19:12
  community and reaching that community, like there
• 19:15
  are people that like really get into skateboarding.
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  Yeah. And then they like go to skate parks in
• 19:23
  order to like build community there and tell
• 19:25
  people about Jesus. And it's one of those things
• 19:28
  where it's like, well, they keep up with skating
• 19:30
  and they intentionally keep doing it because
• 19:33
  for them it's a way that they can. It's a tool
• 19:37
  they can use for evangelistic purposes. So like
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  they end up just knowing cultural things about
• 19:43
  that. Yeah, that's true. You know what I mean?
• 19:45
  So like, yeah, I don't know. I'm actually not
• 19:48
  even sure what I'm asking, to be honest. But
• 19:51
  I think I agree with it. Okay. Yeah, because
• 19:56
  it's less so like, should we stay away from something?
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  And more so, should we engage further in order
• 20:04
  to reach those, those people specifically in
• 20:07
  that community yeah yeah i feel like the the
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  part where it can get sticky is how we engage
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  sometimes sure where it's like if there is something
• 20:17
  that is like just wrong it's like well yeah don't
• 20:22
  engage in that but if there's something like
• 20:24
  yeah learning like how to skate it's like yeah
• 20:26
  i think that's great yeah i don't see anything
• 20:28
  wrong with that sure and part of that is learning
• 20:30
  the the pro skaters that have brought it to where
• 20:33
  it is today. And it's like, yeah, I think you
• 20:36
  should do that. I'm going to use a ridiculous
• 20:39
  example, but if someone's like, oh yeah, come
• 20:41
  here, this new skater thing where we just sacrifice
• 20:45
  an animal on the board. And it's like, yeah,
• 20:48
  don't do that. Don't engage in that. You sacrifice
• 20:51
  the animal on the board. But you have to do it
• 20:54
  in the bowl after you drop in. Well, yeah, because
• 20:58
  it contains the fire. You get it. But it's like,
• 21:02
  yeah, don't do that. But you can know it happens
• 21:06
  and be like, yeah, that's not good. But we can
• 21:09
  still do some cool tricks. But here's the actual
• 21:13
  thing. As we're talking about this, I'm realizing
• 21:16
  that the technical context to what Paul was saying
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  then is really like, these are things I used
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  to do and I was really good at it. But then I
• 21:27
  turned and I followed Jesus. Then I turned and
• 21:30
  I realized that the unknown God is the true God.
• 21:33
  Yeah. And now that's all I do. So in some ways,
• 21:36
  technically, the context of what he said shouldn't
• 21:39
  necessarily be used for us to indulge in the
• 21:43
  things. I've been tricked. It's actually, and
• 21:49
  I feel like. Well, so I think the bigger thing
• 21:51
  to what you said earlier, too, is like, where
• 21:54
  do we find our identity? Yeah, yeah. So it's
• 21:55
  like you see someone who's always running and
• 21:57
  you're like, oh, that guy's a runner. Right.
• 21:59
  Where to the people that know, I'm like, no,
• 22:01
  that person's actually a Christian. Yeah. Who
• 22:04
  likes to run. True. Actually, I think about that
• 22:06
  with, I don't know if you're familiar with Phil
• 22:09
  Keggy. You've asked me that. I think I've asked
• 22:11
  you that. On this podcast. Love the guy. You
• 22:16
  should look him up. He's a great guy. Amazing
• 22:18
  guitarist. But one of the things that. Phil Keggy,
• 22:21
  if you're out there. Thanks for listening. Glad
• 22:25
  you're out there. Glad you're out there. Do what
• 22:27
  you're doing. But there's been several interviews
• 22:31
  with him where people ask him like, oh, you know,
• 22:34
  what's it feel like to be such a great guitarist
• 22:36
  or to do this and that? And he's like, well,
• 22:38
  he's like, there are times where I give up playing
• 22:40
  guitar for months just because I feel like I'm
• 22:43
  neglecting the word. Yeah. And he's like, because
• 22:45
  I'd rather be known as a man of God than the
• 22:47
  greatest guitar player ever. Yeah. And I think
• 22:49
  that's the attitude that we should have going
• 22:51
  into those things where it's like, yeah, I see
• 22:54
  him and it's like, he's an amazing guitarist.
• 22:57
  Yeah. But he's also a profound Christian. Right.
• 23:00
  And it's like that should be our identity first.
• 23:02
  And it's like we're a Christian who plays guitar.
• 23:05
  Yeah. So all that to say, it really doesn't matter
• 23:10
  if you know about anything that's going on. Right?
• 23:16
  Okay, we all agree? Three, two, one. I won't
• 23:20
  lie to you. I'm a little nervous for this one.
• 23:24
  Because I think this is the first time. Where
• 23:28
  you have the idea, but I have the instrument.
• 23:33
  I honestly, at this point, I can't recall. Oh,
• 23:36
  no. To be honest. I think we've played like this
• 23:39
  before. Maybe we haven't. I think so. Okay. But
• 23:43
  you just said you thought it was the first time.
• 23:46
  I lied. Okay. I think this is the first time.
• 23:49
  I lied before when I agreed. This could be the
• 23:52
  first time. All I have in my head is a name.
• 23:57
  But based on how this feels, we'll see how it
• 24:01
  goes. The funny thing is the people that are
• 24:04
  only listening, which is probably most people,
• 24:07
  they kind of have heard a little bit already,
• 24:10
  and this probably doesn't make any sense. And
• 24:12
  they're probably like, what is that? All right,
• 24:14
  so let's actually do something different this
• 24:19
  time. And let's go right into just start playing
• 24:23
  and don't stop playing. Interesting. So let's
• 24:27
  only play and sing. Let's not commentate in between
• 24:31
  it. Okay. I like it. And then just see how it
• 24:33
  goes. So you just start and then keep evolving.
• 24:37
  It's going to all be emo. It's going to evolve
• 24:39
  there. Yeah. You're from Ohio. I'm from Central
• 24:46
  Florida. It has to be emo. It's so true. So from
• 24:49
  now, just start and let it evolve and I'll just
• 24:53
  follow you. Okay, sweet. So you find it and I'll
• 24:55
  follow you. It doesn't have to be perfect. It's
• 25:16
  not. I'm giving you time to find it. Yeah, I'm
• 25:27
  trying to find something interesting. Because
• 25:28
  I liked what you were doing, but I didn't want
• 25:32
  you to make a switch all of a sudden. Yeah, and
• 25:34
  I was trying to think of where to go. Or be locked
• 25:36
  in. All right, we're commenting. We should stop.
• 25:40
  We have a podcast because we keep talking about
• 25:42
  stuff. We can't stop talking. Yeah, I know. All
• 25:46
  right, I'm going to stay there for a minute.
• 25:47
  Okay. It's hard for me not to talk. It's so hard.
• 27:19
  I want to talk so bad. Was it hard for you to
• 27:22
  keep that going? Yeah, my fingers. Let's do something
• 27:26
  different. I want to go into a whole storytelling
• 27:32
  of that. That could be fun. I was getting there,
• 27:35
  but I want to acknowledge the fact that I just
• 27:39
  keep saying Andrew over and over again. Andrew.
• 27:47
  Andrew. I also love the idea of somebody listening
• 27:55
  to this out loud. They're just in public being
• 27:59
  like, what? And somebody named Andrew is like,
• 28:03
  is someone singing my name? I always think because
• 28:07
  working at people's houses and stuff and job
• 28:11
  sites. I will play a podcast sometimes. That's
• 28:14
  way out of context. No one knows what you're
• 28:15
  talking about. Oh, yeah. I own a painting company.
• 28:20
  So when I'm at the job site, sometimes we'll
• 28:23
  be listening to music. We bring a Bluetooth speaker
• 28:26
  and we'll play music. Sure. Sometimes we're like,
• 28:28
  hey, you guys feeling a podcast? And we'll switch
• 28:31
  to a podcast. And some of the podcasts people
• 28:34
  pull up. Those are random things. But it's funny
• 28:38
  because usually whenever the weirdest podcast...
• 28:41
  part is playing for any show yeah that's when
• 28:43
  like the customer walks in sure of course and
• 28:46
  you're like hey so it wasn't like this the whole
• 28:48
  time yeah and that's when the person named andrew
• 28:50
  be walking by all right so to be fair i'm trying
• 28:55
  to write a whole different storyline using andrew
• 28:58
  yeah martyr and i should probably just go back
• 29:01
  to the theme song That's fair. I kind of liked
• 29:04
  it, though. It's very topical. I know. I was
• 29:07
  trying to get to that. But then I was like, how
• 29:09
  do I? I feel like we're moving away from writing
• 29:12
  a theme for the show to just writing a brand
• 29:14
  new song every time. I know, I know. Do you want
• 29:18
  something happier? Yeah, go back to that slow,
• 29:21
  sweet home Alabama. Yeah, as soon as you picked
• 29:31
  up, you were like, why does this sound familiar?
• 29:34
  It's like you're literally just playing the slowed
• 29:36
  down Sweet Home Alabama. That's exactly what
• 29:39
  was happening. There's this YouTube video I watched
• 29:42
  a long time ago. This sounds so familiar. Yeah,
• 29:46
  well, so it's funny, actually, a little callback
• 29:48
  to our previous segment. Yeah? This guy was like,
• 29:52
  yeah, so I was writing this song and I really
• 29:53
  liked it. It was like this really slow, like...
• 29:56
  kind of interesting piece and he's like then
• 29:58
  i realized i just rewrote the office theme but
• 30:01
  at half speed he's like then i sped it up and
• 30:05
  i was like it's the office that's amazing oh
• 30:12
  i hope he like pitched it to somebody and that
• 30:17
  would have been amazing yeah and they're like
• 30:19
  wait why do i wait are you Are you kidding me?
• 30:26
  Actually, when I was younger in bands, there
• 30:30
  was one guy who always would try to write songs.
• 30:32
  Yeah. And he had a habit of just rewriting written
• 30:35
  songs, like popular songs. But he'd have no idea.
• 30:40
  So he'd be like, hey, guys, I wrote this song
• 30:42
  the other day. He'd have lyrics, everything.
• 30:44
  You don't think he was trying to rip it off and
• 30:48
  just play it as his own? No, he genuinely didn't
• 30:49
  know. Wow. And so it was funny because he'd be
• 30:52
  playing a song and singing it. like almost perfect
• 30:55
  to the song that you heard on the radio at the
• 30:57
  grocery store probably and then we would pull
• 31:01
  up the song on our phone and play it and it got
• 31:05
  to a point where you'd just be like dang it i
• 31:07
  did it again and one of them was sweet home alabama
• 31:13
  but here's the thing that's the most ohio thing
• 31:15
  ever yeah that you had a kid in band who would
• 31:20
  put on shows for you guys. Hey, I wrote this
• 31:22
  song last night. That's crazy. Yeah, that song's
• 31:26
  been written in a lot of people. But the fact
• 31:30
  that y 'all are just sitting around and he's
• 31:31
  like, let me play you a song I wrote last night.
• 31:34
  And it's just a rip off of a Jack Black song.
• 31:37
  That's Tenacious D, man. Oh, man. All right,
• 31:43
  let's do something. Okay, I'm going to go a little
• 31:45
  happier this time. I honestly almost forgot.
• 31:47
  It's like a whole other segment. I forgot what
• 31:48
  part we were in. This whole time we just have
• 31:51
  reverb on our voice. We literally started this
• 31:54
  whole segment by saying, We're not serious. We
• 31:58
  went a while without it. I know. I know we did.
• 32:01
  But it was obnoxious that we weren't saying anything.
• 32:05
  Andrew. Andrew. I think that has to be the song.
• 32:12
  That's the pocket scene. Andrew. We can make
• 32:16
  a whole podcast out of this. Here's something
• 32:19
  a little happier. Andrew. That sounds like a
• 32:28
  drug commercial. And you. We love you. And you.
• 32:39
  That's awesome. I love it. Okay. That might have
• 33:03
  to be it right there. No, because now we have
• 33:08
  to actually try and play that. That caught me
• 33:18
  off guard because I was trying to be serious
• 33:19
  for a moment. And then that made it even funnier
• 33:22
  to me. Oh my goodness. I feel like we're not
• 33:28
  even making a podcast at this point. At least
• 33:30
  now we can be crying for the sad part. What would
• 33:34
  be great is if we cut everything out before right
• 33:37
  now. And it just dead cuts to this. We're both
• 33:42
  like crying, laughing. Alright, let's take the
• 33:51
  happy Andrew from the top. The happy Andrew.
• 33:56
  Okay, now this song only can be that. It's name.
• 33:59
  It's that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It has to be.
• 34:01
  The name of the episode is Andrew. It can't be
• 34:03
  any other. All right, here we go. Here's your
• 34:07
  theme song of this week. Here's my sloppy banjo
• 34:11
  play. Andrew. Andrew. Oh, Andrew. Oh, Andrew.
• 35:22
  Yes, Andrew. Oh, Andrew. We honor you, Andrew.
• 35:36
  Welcome to Martyrs Row. Thank you to all the
• 35:43
  Andrews out there. We love you. If your name's
• 35:46
  Andrew, comment below. We have a special surprise
• 35:49
  for you. This episode's for you. This is for
• 35:52
  you. I say a special surprise. We're just going
• 35:54
  to send them a link to the song. We'll send them
• 35:58
  a shirt that says Andrew. Andrew, yeah. Andrew,
• 36:01
  we love you. We love you. I'm here for it. I
• 36:05
  love that. Oh, he's so good. Oh, man. All right,
• 36:10
  Paul. Well. Here we are. We are here back on
• 36:14
  Martyr's Row. I can still feel like the tears
• 36:18
  from my eyes. I know, I didn't expect that. I
• 36:21
  think I probably read and puffed. Well, there's
• 36:25
  no way that anybody listening is going to enjoy
• 36:27
  that as much as we just did. I don't think anyone's
• 36:30
  still here. I think we all skipped it. To be
• 36:33
  honest though, I feel like people that will listen
• 36:38
  to this podcast will... appreciate it i think
• 36:42
  so or they'll zone out i hope so and then realize
• 36:45
  that we're just going andrew and eventually they'll
• 36:49
  be like what am i listening to what have i done
• 36:53
  what did i choose today i need to think about
• 36:55
  my life choices yeah well hopefully we'll redeem
• 36:59
  whatever um doubts you you had in your mind about
• 37:04
  us um as we go into a very serious or just further
• 37:07
  establish them yeah I'd prefer that, to be honest.
• 37:12
  Well, you know, with that said, I have a question
• 37:15
  for you. Uh -oh. Does it involve an Andrew? It
• 37:19
  very well could, depending on your translation.
• 37:23
  What? I don't think they had that name back then.
• 37:27
  Okay. So, you know Nimrod. Good old Nimrod. The
• 37:32
  old Bugs Bunny. Was that what he called him?
• 37:38
  Doesn't he call people nimrods? Oh, probably.
• 37:41
  That would make sense. I think he's the one who
• 37:43
  started that. He was the main one? I think it
• 37:46
  was Mel Blanc who was just like... Mel Blanc?
• 37:49
  Because he did the voice of Bugs Bunny. No one
• 37:51
  knows that. Sorry. For the one person that knows
• 37:54
  that, which is my dad. Someone went, come on.
• 37:58
  How do you not know Mel Blanc? Comment below
• 38:01
  if you know Mel Blanc. Yeah, and if your name
• 38:03
  is Andrew. If your name is Andrew and you know
• 38:05
  Mel Blanc, we have a very special surprise for
• 38:08
  you. Andrew definitely knows Mel Blanc. Come
• 38:10
  on, Andrew. Yeah. He doesn't want people to know
• 38:12
  that, but he does. It's like his closet thing.
• 38:15
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Secret knowledge. Anonymously
• 38:19
  comment, Andrew, that you know who that is. My
• 38:24
  name's Andrew, trust me. And I know. I have to
• 38:27
  take my word on that. Anonymous. Anonymous. I
• 38:31
  love that. Okay. So the biblical Nimrod. I want
• 38:37
  a whole different name with that. Can't get Andrew
• 38:41
  out of my head. No. You almost said Enoch. I
• 38:45
  almost did. Same time frame. Got Enoch on the
• 38:48
  mind. Always on the mind. I feel like when I
• 38:52
  look at you, that name just comes out. Yikes.
• 38:55
  So Nimrod. Enoch O 'Clock. Enoch O 'Clock. That's
• 38:59
  a t -shirt. That's actually pretty good. I like
• 39:02
  that. Comment below if your name's Andrew. Enoch
• 39:06
  O 'Clock and you like that. If you would pre
• 39:10
  -order that shirt. If you would pre -order that.
• 39:14
  So Nimrod. Okay. Now all I'm thinking is Bugs
• 39:20
  Bunny. Yeah, me too. Hold on, I'll bring it back.
• 39:23
  Okay. This is serious. Okay. So you know Nimrod.
• 39:29
  Yeah, good guy. He had his days. So he is attributed
• 39:36
  with building the Tower of Babel. Yes. Do you
• 39:40
  think that Nimrod was a Freemason? Ooh. You like
• 39:48
  that. Do I think that Nimrod was a Freemason?
• 39:54
  Okay. This is... I feel like we set ourselves
• 39:59
  up badly. As we usually do. In general. Because,
• 40:04
  like, my brain goes... Like, where do I even
• 40:07
  go? Like, there's, like... Andrew. Andrew. Yeah,
• 40:15
  I don't. Okay. So do I think that Nimrod was
• 40:19
  a Freemason? So there's a lot to unpack there.
• 40:26
  Absolutely. So Nimrod. Okay. So Nimrod was, he
• 40:32
  was said to be the first mighty man. On the earth.
• 40:38
  Yes. Which is confusing to me a little bit because
• 40:43
  of the language that's specifically used there.
• 40:48
  It's a specific phrase to use. Yeah, and it's
• 40:50
  not right away. Yeah. Other things have happened
• 40:54
  before the Bible says that. True. But the other
• 40:57
  thing is Nimrod is barely mentioned. Yeah. I
• 41:02
  think there's only five verses that mention him.
• 41:04
  Yeah, and they're in random places. Yeah, it's,
• 41:07
  I know it's Micah. Yeah, well, Genesis 10 would
• 41:12
  be the big one. He's Micah 5, and then... And
• 41:16
  then Chronicles somewhere. Chronicles, that's
• 41:18
  right, yeah. So, like, that's the interesting
• 41:21
  thing, is, like, Nimrod is, like, barely mentioned.
• 41:24
  But that goes back to what we were talking about
• 41:25
  a little bit before, is the Old Testament specifically.
• 41:30
  The New Testament does it, but the Old Testament,
• 41:33
  sometimes it nods to things. And then sometimes
• 41:37
  it just makes sure that that piece of the puzzle
• 41:42
  is in there somehow. Yeah. Yeah. Like it does
• 41:46
  not expand on it at all. Yeah. It's just like,
• 41:49
  there you go. Especially like Genesis one through
• 41:53
  like 12. Yeah. Is like you. I mean, there are
• 41:59
  people that I think Mike Heiser actually said
• 42:01
  he could spend the rest. At the time, he said
• 42:04
  he could spend the rest of his life just in Genesis
• 42:07
  1 through 10. I don't blame him. Yeah. The great,
• 42:10
  the late great. Michael Heiser. Michael Heiser.
• 42:13
  Yeah. Well, so it is interesting because in Genesis
• 42:17
  10, it's a genealogy. Right. And then there's
• 42:22
  like this break off where it breaks the pattern
• 42:24
  of just naming names. And it says, this is Nimrod.
• 42:27
  Yeah. And like his father's Cush. Yes. And like,
• 42:31
  and then here you go. Anyway. Right. Back to
• 42:33
  what I was saying. Yeah. And in some ways it's
• 42:36
  really just, it's setting up for Genesis 11.
• 42:41
  Yes. So it's like, it is kind of setting that
• 42:44
  up because it's about to tell you the next story.
• 42:48
  Yeah. But it's telling you the genealogy intentionally
• 42:52
  to go like, this is where these people came from.
• 42:55
  We're about to talk about this guy's influence.
• 42:58
  But then even in Genesis 11, it doesn't really
• 43:01
  talk about Nimrod. No, it just kind of like assumes
• 43:04
  you would know. Yeah. Like what they're talking
• 43:06
  about. Yeah. Because I think what's interesting
• 43:09
  and it's important with especially the early
• 43:12
  names is they are, it's weird to read it because
• 43:17
  it's like, oh, well, they had their son Egypt
• 43:20
  or they had their son, you know, Canaan. Yeah.
• 43:24
  And it's like, oh, these are all names of nations.
• 43:28
  Yeah. And it's like, well, those are the nations
• 43:30
  they established. Exactly. That's what I was
• 43:33
  going to say. They call it the naming of the
• 43:37
  nations. So that section is the naming of the
• 43:40
  nations. But it is kind of jarring because if,
• 43:44
  for instance, if you met my son for the first
• 43:48
  time and I was like, this is my son, Canada,
• 43:50
  you'd be like, what? That doesn't make sense.
• 43:53
  That's weird. But if eventually my son's name
• 43:57
  became the name of the nation. Like, that's kind
• 44:01
  of wild, but also you would never know that.
• 44:03
  Yeah. Because it would be far after you or, you
• 44:05
  know. And I think we have that today even, or
• 44:09
  at least in recent times, where I think of the
• 44:12
  city that I grew up near, Cleveland, is named
• 44:16
  after Cleveland. Right. Like, that was the guy's
• 44:20
  last name. Yeah. Or even I was just in Hattiesburg,
• 44:23
  Mississippi, and Hattiesburg is named after the
• 44:26
  guy who built the city's wife. Her name was Hattie.
• 44:29
  He's like, oh, Hattiesburg, done. It's like,
• 44:31
  oh, so I guess we still do that. We just don't
• 44:34
  think about it that way. Yeah, I mean, people
• 44:36
  do that with businesses and stuff too. Yeah,
• 44:38
  yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that's pretty consistent.
• 44:41
  But yeah, okay. So I think going back to just
• 44:47
  the question that you asked. So like Nimrod is
• 44:50
  typically associated with Tower of Babel. But
• 44:53
  like we said, like he's mentioned in Genesis
• 44:55
  10. Tower of Babel, I believe, is Genesis 11.
• 44:59
  And then I think flood is Genesis 12. Well, flood
• 45:04
  was before. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We need to
• 45:11
  dissect that a little bit. Yeah. It's fair. Yeah,
• 45:15
  because that's the whole, that's kind of a big
• 45:19
  part of it. Because like, okay, so if Nimrod's
• 45:22
  associated with Tower of Babel, what is the Tower
• 45:24
  of Babel? The Tower of Babel was... The people
• 45:28
  got together and said, let's make let's make
• 45:31
  bricks and build. Yeah. A tower to heaven, basically.
• 45:35
  I think to make a name for ourselves that. Yeah.
• 45:37
  The language. Yeah. Yeah. So like as as they're
• 45:40
  doing that, that's like what they were like.
• 45:45
  He had established the nation that said that
• 45:49
  and did that. And so I think that that's where
• 45:53
  like that connection that makes sense where the.
• 45:56
  the connection of the question of is Nimrod,
• 45:59
  was he a free Mason? Yeah. But then it also goes
• 46:02
  back to like, well then do we talk about free
• 46:05
  Masonry? Like a little bit because I feel like
• 46:09
  it's enough to explain like, what is that? Yeah.
• 46:12
  Well, like when I spent some time in, in, um,
• 46:15
  Israel, there's a place like over by Tel Aviv
• 46:19
  that is like right on the Mediterranean. And,
• 46:23
  um, there was like a Knights Templar fortress.
• 46:28
  And that particular fortress was like the one
• 46:32
  time when I was there that they talked about
• 46:33
  the Knights Templar a lot. And Freemasonry, I
• 46:37
  think to outsiders of Freemasonry, always associate
• 46:41
  the beginning of it with the Knights Templar.
• 46:44
  Yeah. Or at least I did. Yeah, yeah. Or like
• 46:48
  King Solomon. One of the two, I feel like are
• 46:50
  the... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Which would have
• 46:53
  been like, Like, yes, exactly. Yeah. But even,
• 46:58
  I feel like even Solomon is loose. That might
• 47:01
  just be because of national treasure. Knights
• 47:04
  Templar? Yeah. And I think they, when they introduce
• 47:07
  it in the first one, I think they talk about
• 47:09
  King Solomon and they also talk about the Knights
• 47:12
  Templar. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah,
• 47:15
  I don't, so I don't know a ton about Freemasonry,
• 47:18
  but that, I mean, that goes back to like the
• 47:21
  cultural reference. concept is like the truth
• 47:24
  is is like like that that would be how i would
• 47:27
  know yeah is national treasure yeah yeah i mean
• 47:32
  that's kind of how i learned about it right yeah
• 47:34
  so like yeah like free masonry like okay so the
• 47:37
  masons the mason lodges because there's there's
• 47:40
  one in every city yeah um and it's a massive
• 47:43
  organization but it's also like there's not like
• 47:47
  a representative from the masons showing up at
• 47:51
  wherever yeah like whatever they are doing you
• 47:55
  don't know about it true and even their lodges
• 47:58
  are like there's like a door and then if it's
• 48:02
  like a multiple story building there's like no
• 48:05
  windows yeah yeah which is always the weirdest
• 48:08
  thing to me because it's like okay the masons
• 48:10
  are known for like geometry and building things
• 48:16
  um and being master craftsmen and builders yeah
• 48:20
  but their buildings seem abandoned which is like
• 48:25
  what is that what's that what is that about um
• 48:29
  yeah so like okay so there is something that's
• 48:33
  kind of interesting when it comes to this particular
• 48:38
  topic and there's a few things that i know that
• 48:40
  um i'll probably have you pull up um but like
• 48:46
  Again, it's like a splatter of where do we go
• 48:49
  with this. Okay, so there are competing ideals
• 48:56
  and there are also these massive things that
• 48:59
  are happening across the board. So let me start
• 49:04
  here. I feel like the premise of the podcast
• 49:06
  in general is to go back to like that is an interesting
• 49:12
  question. that if you have some interaction with
• 49:16
  a lodge or with somebody, a family member who's
• 49:19
  a Freemason, it might bring up some conversations
• 49:23
  where you might bring it into a church and ask
• 49:25
  a pastor, what about this? So there is something
• 49:28
  that I do know is that if you are Catholic, the
• 49:35
  Catholic Church actually forbids you from being
• 49:39
  a Freemason. Yeah. kind of interesting and when
• 49:45
  we were talking about um maybe talking about
• 49:48
  this i actually sent you that can you pull that
• 49:50
  up because it's kind of interesting um but yeah
• 49:54
  so so so the catholic church itself um within
• 49:59
  their instruction um they have this document
• 50:04
  that is part of like what they can and can't
• 50:08
  do so it says like and this is from the vatican
• 50:11
  this is directly from the the Vatican, um, the
• 50:14
  titular Archbishop of Lauriam, uh, secretary.
• 50:19
  Yeah. So this is like an official document, um,
• 50:22
  Vatican document. And it's a congregation for
• 50:25
  the doctrine of the faith, a declaration of,
• 50:28
  it's a declaration on messianic associations.
• 50:33
  So I feel like this was like a interesting place
• 50:36
  to start in this conversation because it's like,
• 50:39
  okay, Nimrod, Freemasons will get there, but
• 50:45
  what does maybe the church historically say about
• 50:50
  Freemasonry? Yeah, good point. Because I feel
• 50:53
  like there are people that have had interactions
• 50:56
  with Freemasons. Yeah. But for the most part,
• 50:59
  it's like I'm saying, it's like you see a building,
• 51:02
  you know about a lodge, and for the most part,
• 51:05
  Freemasons' tenets are truth and to help people.
• 51:12
  And so they traditionally have been good for
• 51:14
  society on the surface. Yeah, because a lot of
• 51:18
  philanthropic work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so
• 51:22
  this is Declaration of Messianic Associations.
• 51:24
  It has been asked whether there has been any
• 51:27
  change in the church's decision in regard to
• 51:30
  messianic associations since the new code of
• 51:33
  canon law does not mention them expressly, unlike
• 51:37
  the previous code. So what they're talking about
• 51:40
  there is updated Vatican II stuff. Again, we
• 51:45
  should do an episode on Catholicism. That could
• 51:47
  be an episode. That could be an episode. But
• 51:51
  yeah, they update things for the Catholic Church
• 51:55
  itself has all of these things built in that
• 51:59
  councils talk about extensively in research and
• 52:02
  have for thousands of years at this point. which
• 52:06
  is pretty cool. It's pretty unique and centralizes
• 52:10
  everything to where if you have a question about
• 52:12
  something specific, they probably have an answer
• 52:15
  for it. And it's probably in a document like
• 52:17
  this. Yeah. Where it's like, all right, so this
• 52:20
  sacred congregation is in a position to reply
• 52:23
  that this circumstance is due to an editorial
• 52:26
  criterion, which was followed also in the case
• 52:29
  of other associations, likewise unmentioned.
• 52:34
  inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
• 52:37
  So what they're about to say about the Masons
• 52:40
  also is in regard to other organizations like
• 52:45
  this. Therefore, the church's negative judgment
• 52:50
  in regard to messianic association remains unchanged
• 52:55
  since their principles have always been considered
• 52:59
  irreconcilable. Holy moly. So it's a pretty strong
• 53:20
  stand. It's wild. And the fact they say it remains
• 53:23
  unchanged, it's like they've felt that way for
• 53:25
  a very long time. It's not like a new idea. They're
• 53:28
  like, let's just reaffirm. This is our stance.
• 53:31
  Right, and this statement is from Rome, from
• 53:36
  the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the
• 53:38
  Doctrine of the Faith, November 26, 1983. Okay,
• 53:42
  that's what I was going to ask. I mean, within
• 53:44
  the last 40 years, it's pretty recent for the
• 53:47
  Vatican. Yeah, and the reason I knew about this
• 53:51
  was because I had heard somebody talk about the
• 53:53
  fact that Pope Francis, current pope, reaffirmed
• 53:57
  this. Oh, really? Yeah, and had made a statement
• 54:01
  on it recently. Oh, so he's like, let's re -up
• 54:04
  this. Yeah. Wow. So like apparently a lot of,
• 54:07
  like this has been consistent for a pretty decent
• 54:10
  amount of time. Interesting. But the interesting
• 54:12
  thing about it to me is how straightforward it
• 54:15
  is that the church's negative judgment in regard
• 54:19
  to messianic association remains unchanged since
• 54:22
  their principles, the messianic principles, have
• 54:25
  always been considered. irreconcilable with the
• 54:29
  doctrine of the church and therefore membership
• 54:32
  in them remains forbidden. So it's not just like
• 54:36
  a lodge where people hang out. They're like,
• 54:38
  no, there's stuff going on here and you're not
• 54:40
  supposed to be part of it. So much so that the
• 54:44
  differences in what they, but like it's irreconcilable.
• 54:49
  Yeah. Like what they, their practices and what
• 54:52
  they believe as part of Freemasonry. is has irreconcilable
• 54:59
  differences with the faith the christian faith
• 55:03
  yeah i mean which it's like it makes you ask
• 55:07
  it's like okay so what's going on over there
• 55:09
  yeah what is going on over there so like let's
• 55:13
  let's then jump around a little bit yeah yeah
• 55:15
  so then okay so if we go all right well what
• 55:18
  is going on over there here's your phone If we
• 55:21
  go, what is going on over there? I don't have
• 55:23
  all those answers. Let me just say that right
• 55:25
  away. To be fair, I don't think anyone does because
• 55:27
  they are a secret society as well. Yeah. Which
• 55:30
  I know is kind of a buzzword term to use, but
• 55:31
  that's how they classify themselves. Yeah. They're
• 55:33
  an exclusive group. Yeah, exactly. I'll say it
• 55:36
  that way. Yeah. Which is, it's fine to be an
• 55:40
  exclusive group. Yeah. But if the organization
• 55:44
  of the Catholic Church has a statement through
• 55:47
  the Vatican that's been re -upped by modern popes,
• 55:51
  that says you can't be a catholic and a freemason
• 55:55
  and if you are a freemason you cannot receive
• 55:58
  holy communion because there's irreconcilable
• 56:01
  differences in the practice and belief of freemasonry
• 56:06
  and the catholic church yeah yeah so and and
• 56:09
  the reason why like like i'm not catholic um
• 56:12
  as far as i know paul you're not catholic not
• 56:15
  that i'm aware of either um but Like, and we've
• 56:20
  talked about this a little bit, but like the
• 56:21
  Catholic church has, I mean, the Catholic church
• 56:24
  held Christianity together for a long time. And
• 56:29
  they would argue that I think there's a lot,
• 56:32
  I don't know if this is like from Rome, but I
• 56:36
  think there's kind of a core belief that the
• 56:38
  Catholic church is the only true church, which
• 56:42
  that's another episode. That should be a shirt.
• 56:47
  But the thing that I do know is all of our scripture
• 56:51
  and all of our text was maintained there and
• 56:54
  came through that process of them handling that
• 56:59
  as well as possible and maintaining that. So
• 57:03
  the truth is we are an offshoot. Protestantism
• 57:08
  is an offshoot of Catholicism. Yeah, I mean that...
• 57:12
  That's Martin Luther, where he was like, hey,
• 57:14
  I got some issues with this, and then people
• 57:17
  followed him. Right. Yeah. Yeah, so that being
• 57:21
  said, it's an official stance of a trusted organization
• 57:29
  in some ways when it comes to holding to simple
• 57:36
  Christian doctrine. Yeah. Now, there's a lot
• 57:39
  of other Christian doctrine that... uh, I don't
• 57:43
  particularly agree with, um, which is why I'm
• 57:45
  not Catholic. Yeah. But the core doctrine is
• 57:49
  essentially the same. Um, and so that's why like
• 57:53
  for to go to that, it's like, I mean, there's
• 57:56
  no, like John Wesley didn't write something as
• 57:59
  far as I'm aware of that. And please, if you
• 58:02
  know, if he did put it in the comment, cause
• 58:04
  I want to read that about Freemasonry, but you
• 58:07
  have all these like secret, like that, the secret
• 58:10
  society element of it. And, Freemasons also...
• 58:16
  I'm going to try and keep this as simple as I
• 58:21
  can. So Freemasons would have... How do I say
• 58:30
  this? Without bringing in a bunch of other things.
• 58:36
  Can I say... Yeah, help me out here, Paul. For
• 58:38
  ourselves, too. I think it's tough with a conversation
• 58:42
  like this. And some of the ones we had, because
• 58:44
  we try to stay as grounded as we can. And like,
• 58:47
  okay, what can we actually, not say to not get
• 58:51
  in trouble with anything, but it's like, all
• 58:53
  right, how do we make this a reasonable thing
• 58:56
  to say? Because especially with Freemasonry,
• 58:59
  it's difficult because there's a lot of things
• 59:01
  that people say. And then it's like, okay, but
• 59:03
  what is the reality? What are things you can
• 59:07
  actually show and be like, this is what it is?
• 59:09
  Yeah. And to be honest, I don't know that we
• 59:12
  should answer that question. I don't think we
• 59:14
  can right now. Yeah. I don't think we should
• 59:16
  right now. So really, I think we play with, like,
• 59:20
  we'll just kind of play with the things we do
• 59:22
  know. Yeah. Which is exactly what you're saying.
• 59:24
  Well, and I think the place to start, which is
• 59:26
  kind of where you're going here, I think, is
• 59:28
  like, okay, so we know we have a statement that's
• 59:31
  been reaffirmed many times by the Vatican. Yes.
• 59:34
  that says Christianity and Freemasonry cannot
• 59:37
  mix. Yes. So it's like, okay, so there's something
• 59:41
  we can hang on to at least. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:44
  Yeah, and, okay, so let's go that direction.
• 59:48
  So what, I guess, what is Freemasonry or what
• 59:53
  is Messianic tradition? Messianic? I think it's
• 59:59
  messianic. Yeah, I should say. That's why I paused
• 1:00:02
  because the E sound goes a different direction.
• 1:00:07
  But yeah, so that particular tradition has a
• 1:00:12
  process or it has a tradition that goes back
• 1:00:17
  in a very specific way. Yeah. And I feel like
• 1:00:22
  maybe the whole thing is like we just read the
• 1:00:24
  statements. Yeah, I think that's fair. So the
• 1:00:27
  Catholic Church says you can't be a Christian
• 1:00:30
  and a Freemason at the same time. So that gives
• 1:00:35
  us a little bit of insight of being a Freemason.
• 1:00:40
  It doesn't really tell us much about Freemasonry.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah. Now, we can look at things like there is
• 1:00:47
  the speculative side of things that is fun to
• 1:00:50
  get into. And one of the things that I'll just
• 1:00:53
  tell you right now is. um at some point this
• 1:00:57
  whole segment of our podcast will be us playing
• 1:01:02
  around with an idea but we'll be very clear to
• 1:01:05
  let you know when we're doing that yeah um not
• 1:01:08
  necessarily specifically conspiratorial but just
• 1:01:11
  like playing around with fun ideas of what something
• 1:01:15
  could be but i think it is important i think
• 1:01:17
  this is what we're doing now or this is what
• 1:01:19
  we are doing is like let's set a groundwork and
• 1:01:21
  a framework to place in so it's like Here are
• 1:01:24
  our boundaries. Now we can have some fun in the
• 1:01:27
  sand. Yeah, so then let me jump to this. So we
• 1:01:29
  know what the Catholic Church has said about
• 1:01:31
  Freemasonry and the relationship between the
• 1:01:33
  Christian faith. So let me jump to Nimrod and
• 1:01:37
  in relationship to a statement that the Freemasons
• 1:01:42
  make about themselves. So I sent that to you
• 1:01:45
  as well. So this is another thing that like,
• 1:01:51
  all right, so this is what the Catholic Church
• 1:01:52
  says. And then the Freemasons actually reference
• 1:01:57
  Nimrod. Yeah. So the Freemasons actually reference
• 1:02:02
  Nimrod. And it's interesting because... Isn't
• 1:02:06
  some of their older writings that they have written,
• 1:02:10
  the Freemasons have written? Yeah. So it says,
• 1:02:13
  Haram, the architect of Solomon's temple, is
• 1:02:17
  one of the most famous Masons. So yeah, you're
• 1:02:20
  right. And it says... An oriental legend traces
• 1:02:24
  the lineage of Haram from Adam through Tubal
• 1:02:27
  Cain and Nimrod, the builder of the Tower of
• 1:02:31
  Babel. On Nimrod being in Mason. Well, that's
• 1:02:36
  pretty straightforward. I think that answers
• 1:02:38
  the question. I think we just answered. Is this
• 1:02:39
  the first time we've answered a question? Maybe.
• 1:02:42
  This directly. And maybe that's what it's building
• 1:02:45
  up to. That's why we're stuttering a little bit.
• 1:02:49
  It's like, let's try not to. Spoil it. No, let's
• 1:02:53
  try not to jump around to all the things we want
• 1:02:55
  to jump around to and just answer the question.
• 1:02:58
  Yeah, I think that's fair. So on Nimrod being
• 1:03:01
  a Mason, this is a quote. Every reading Mason,
• 1:03:06
  so any Mason that can read, is aware that from
• 1:03:11
  the time of the original of the Cook MS constitutions.
• 1:03:20
  AD 1400. So that's pretty old. Yeah, yeah. Referencing
• 1:03:25
  back to the 1400s. It has been handed down that
• 1:03:28
  the hunter king Nimrod was a grand master. So
• 1:03:34
  that statement says that Nimrod himself, the
• 1:03:39
  hunter king, was a grand master. And a grand
• 1:03:43
  master is the highest level of Freemasonry. Yeah,
• 1:03:47
  yeah. And one thing I do know is, and I think
• 1:03:51
  most people watching this or listening probably
• 1:03:52
  know this as well, Freemasonry has a bunch of
• 1:03:55
  different levels. So we do know that, that you
• 1:03:59
  come in and you're at level one. That's kind
• 1:04:03
  of how Scientology is too, right? Yeah, but I
• 1:04:06
  think don't you have to donate money for that?
• 1:04:09
  I actually have no clue how it works. You buy
• 1:04:10
  access. Yeah. Probably. But it's level one, and
• 1:04:15
  then the highest level is level 33. Yeah. Um,
• 1:04:18
  and to be honest with you, we don't, I, that's
• 1:04:22
  all that we like potentially know. That's all
• 1:04:25
  I can say. Yeah. I'm not a Mason. I don't really
• 1:04:27
  even, I haven't really known a Mason either.
• 1:04:29
  And that's the thing. But, um, yeah. So they,
• 1:04:34
  they say that the document from the Mason's constitution
• 1:04:38
  dating back to 1400, um, AD is that Hunter King
• 1:04:45
  Nimrod was a grandmaster. For some hundreds of
• 1:04:49
  years, our constitutions have asserted that Nimrod
• 1:04:52
  was a grandmaster and gave the Masons a charge
• 1:04:55
  which we still follow. That's pretty scary. Yeah.
• 1:05:02
  So the quote there is, for some hundreds of years,
• 1:05:06
  our constitutions have asserted that Nimrod was
• 1:05:10
  a grandmaster and Nimrod, as a grandmaster, gave
• 1:05:14
  the Masons a charge. So a call to action, which
• 1:05:22
  we still follow. That's crazy. So within masonry,
• 1:05:26
  there's a charge or a call to action. Given from
• 1:05:31
  Nimrod. Given from Nimrod that's in their constitution.
• 1:05:35
  And our oldest masonic manuscript traces masonry
• 1:05:41
  not to Solomon, but to Nimrod and Euclid. in
• 1:05:47
  a still earlier time. The oldest known mess,
• 1:05:51
  messianic texts, the old charges, which dates
• 1:05:54
  at least as far back as 1400 sets out a legendary
• 1:05:58
  heritage that begins with the antidote antediluvian
• 1:06:01
  patriarch J ball who discovered geometry and
• 1:06:06
  wrote down his findings on pillars of stone after
• 1:06:10
  Noah's flood destroyed all human civilization.
• 1:06:14
  The Egyptian sage Hermes rediscovered this knowledge
• 1:06:18
  and passed it on in a lineage that includes Nimrod.
• 1:06:24
  That's interesting. Yeah, so what they're saying
• 1:06:26
  is like in the messianic tradition and in their
• 1:06:33
  constitutions, basically an antediluvian is like...
• 1:06:39
  I love that word. It's a cool sounding word.
• 1:06:42
  Yeah. It just means before the flood. Yeah. So
• 1:06:45
  it's just referring to the time before the flood,
• 1:06:48
  the Noahic flood. Yeah. But so in the, yeah,
• 1:06:54
  in the, okay. So the patriarch Jabal, Jabal,
• 1:06:59
  Jabal, however you want to say it, he discovered
• 1:07:02
  geometry and wrote it down, his findings on pillars
• 1:07:07
  of stone. So they dated all the way back to that
• 1:07:11
  as part of the origin of masonry that's in the
• 1:07:14
  antediluvian pre -flood. That's crazy. Which
• 1:07:17
  would mean that post -flood, and this is kind
• 1:07:20
  of where I started to look at this, like how
• 1:07:23
  does this lay out? Because I heard someone say
• 1:07:26
  that the masons consider Nimrod the first mason
• 1:07:32
  post -flood. Which, with that writing, makes
• 1:07:36
  sense. it also, that language also correlates
• 1:07:40
  to what they call Nimrod in the Bible. Yeah.
• 1:07:45
  That he's the first mighty man. Yeah. Like that's
• 1:07:49
  the thing that throws me off a little bit about.
• 1:07:51
  That's interesting. Yeah. Can you pull up Genesis
• 1:07:53
  10? Because that's the thing that throws me off
• 1:07:55
  a little bit about Genesis 10 is like in the
• 1:07:58
  genealogy of the nations, as it's laying it out,
• 1:08:01
  it's weird to me that all of a sudden it just
• 1:08:04
  says. in referring to him, he was a mighty hunter
• 1:08:11
  before the Lord, which that language the Masons
• 1:08:14
  used. Yeah. Therefore, it is said, like Nimrod,
• 1:08:18
  a mighty hunter before the Lord. The beginning
• 1:08:20
  of his kingdom was Babel. Oh, I'm jumping ahead.
• 1:08:26
  Cush fathered Nimrod. He was the first on earth
• 1:08:29
  to be a mighty man, which is pretty interesting.
• 1:08:36
  And then, of course, that's the like the drop
• 1:08:39
  down translation is like he began to be a mighty
• 1:08:41
  man on the earth. Yeah. And that's where like
• 1:08:45
  some translations diverge, where in the sense
• 1:08:49
  that like like this, what this reads, the ESV
• 1:08:53
  reads, he was the first on earth to be a mighty
• 1:08:56
  man. But then it refers back to the to the Hebrew
• 1:09:01
  layout that potentially said he began. Yeah.
• 1:09:05
  Yeah. He began to be a mighty man. Which means
• 1:09:08
  like he wasn't for a time. Right. Yeah. And then
• 1:09:10
  he became a gibberim. Yeah. Which, do you want
• 1:09:15
  to talk about that? If you want to. Yeah. Well,
• 1:09:19
  so. I mean, just explaining what a gibberim is
• 1:09:22
  in the tradition itself. Yeah. So, I mean, in
• 1:09:25
  the simplest thing, the first time that we see
• 1:09:27
  that is in Genesis 6, where it refers to the
• 1:09:31
  mighty men of old, the men of renown. Right.
• 1:09:34
  The mighty men being gibberim. Which would be
• 1:09:38
  the antediluvian. Yes. That we're talking about.
• 1:09:40
  Yes. And then so here we see it singular, so
• 1:09:44
  just gibbor. Yeah. Yeah, which is, so that's
• 1:09:47
  interesting in relationship to the messianic
• 1:09:49
  tradition. Yeah. That Nimrod would have been
• 1:09:52
  the first to carry that tradition. Yeah. Through
• 1:09:57
  post -flood. Yeah. Or at least. Actually, what
• 1:10:02
  I read there was that he wasn't the first one,
• 1:10:04
  but instead he was in the tradition of post -flood.
• 1:10:11
  Yeah. Which I guess if you're following with
• 1:10:16
  what the Freemasons wrote, is that, well, yes,
• 1:10:20
  there was... the people that discovered geometry,
• 1:10:24
  and they wrote down their practice and their
• 1:10:25
  understanding, and he picked that up. But go
• 1:10:28
  back to that. So, like, that's kind of what I
• 1:10:30
  wanted to go back to, because even with Nimrod,
• 1:10:33
  like, it's interesting if Nimrod was a Freemason,
• 1:10:37
  particularly a Grand Master. Yeah. Now, there's
• 1:10:41
  a good chance that he wasn't a Mason. Right.
• 1:10:46
  But instead, in the tradition, in the charge
• 1:10:49
  of Nimrod. Yeah. whatever Nimrod was carrying
• 1:10:52
  on and whatever it was called back then eventually
• 1:10:55
  becomes Freemasonry. We end up calling it Freemasonry.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah. Or it's an offshoot of whatever the byproduct
• 1:11:02
  of that was. Or like in the tradition of, yeah,
• 1:11:08
  which makes me think that like if they are master
• 1:11:10
  builders, then the idea of like, well, then what
• 1:11:16
  are they building? Right. Because to be completely
• 1:11:20
  honest, like, masons, what they build is not
• 1:11:27
  that, it's not that it's not that interesting.
• 1:11:31
  It's just their particular buildings look like
• 1:11:35
  they're only hiding things. Right. So then what
• 1:11:39
  are they building that we can't see? But that
• 1:11:44
  was the end. Why I wanted to go back to that.
• 1:11:47
  Why I wanted to go back to that is because they
• 1:11:49
  reference J -Bell who learned geometry. Yeah.
• 1:11:54
  What do you mean he learned geometry? That's
• 1:11:56
  a good question. So that's why I wanted you to
• 1:11:58
  mention Gabor because if you go like, all right,
• 1:12:02
  well, so masonry is based on geometry. And that
• 1:12:08
  guy learned geometry and he wrote it on a stone
• 1:12:13
  pillar. Yeah. And then masons. picked that up
• 1:12:17
  and used the geometry that was written on that
• 1:12:21
  stone pillar in their tradition in order to build
• 1:12:24
  things. Yeah. Including things like the monolithic
• 1:12:30
  structure that was King Solomon's temple. Yeah.
• 1:12:34
  In that tradition. Yeah. So what was that tradition
• 1:12:38
  and where did that come from? And that does take
• 1:12:42
  us back to the what? what you almost said instead
• 1:12:45
  of Nimrod, which would be Enoch. It sure would.
• 1:12:50
  That Freudian slip there. Because that would
• 1:12:55
  be the tradition of Enoch 1, which would be when
• 1:13:00
  the sons of God came down and they lay with the
• 1:13:04
  daughters of man, that Enoch picks that story
• 1:13:08
  up and basically says, In exchange for knowledge.
• 1:13:15
  So there's knowledge given to the men of the
• 1:13:22
  earth. And when that knowledge is given, the
• 1:13:27
  knowledge that's given are things like geometry.
• 1:13:31
  Yeah. So it's like, okay, well, where did geometry
• 1:13:34
  come from? Well, if you trace the dots back,
• 1:13:40
  you can look at Enoch 1. that then is corroborated
• 1:13:44
  that the event itself happened, but not necessarily
• 1:13:48
  in the detail of Enoch 1 to Genesis 6 in the
• 1:13:52
  scriptures that basically says, well, geometry
• 1:13:57
  was given to man through the sons of God and
• 1:14:01
  it was knowledge that was passed down. Yeah.
• 1:14:05
  Which is... Kind of wild. It's wild because it
• 1:14:09
  means that like... The tradition of Nimrod that
• 1:14:12
  becomes masonry is knowledge passed down from
• 1:14:16
  an angel cast out of heaven. Yeah. So it's knowledge
• 1:14:23
  that we should not have had. Yeah. Or, yeah,
• 1:14:28
  I'm not really sure how to unpack that fully.
• 1:14:30
  Yeah. Well, I think before we maybe go into that,
• 1:14:33
  I kind of want to tie some of this in. We should
• 1:14:38
  probably wrap. wrap it all together because yeah
• 1:14:40
  well so i i want to i kind of want to do this
• 1:14:44
  way because i i was kind of planning for this
• 1:14:47
  conversation a little bit okay in case so i was
• 1:14:49
  like i think this is a cool conversation it's
• 1:14:51
  like i don't want to lose the people that aren't
• 1:14:53
  fully with us yet okay um or if you are with
• 1:14:56
  us you maybe you don't know this and it could
• 1:14:59
  be fun uh in warning too just on the front this
• 1:15:02
  is a little bit more pg -13 Okay. Nothing crazy.
• 1:15:06
  I'm going to try to be delicate with it if I
• 1:15:08
  can. Let's be delicate. So I think one question
• 1:15:14
  that some people might ask, for those who don't
• 1:15:15
  know, is like, who's Nimrod? Yeah. Okay, so we're
• 1:15:19
  saying, yeah, this is bad that the Freemasons
• 1:15:21
  are tying themselves to him. Some people are
• 1:15:23
  like, okay, but why is it so bad? Right. It's
• 1:15:24
  like, okay, well, Tower of Babel, pretty bad,
• 1:15:27
  first of all. Yeah. It's pretty clear that he's
• 1:15:29
  in opposition to the Lord. Yeah. So that right
• 1:15:34
  there, let's take that. But also, I want to go
• 1:15:37
  back to Noah first. Okay. And so Noah, we see
• 1:15:42
  that he was saved, him and his three sons and
• 1:15:45
  their wives. Yes. And Noah's wife as well. She's
• 1:15:48
  important to this story. Yeah, yeah. They were
• 1:15:52
  found to be the only righteous ones. Yes. And
• 1:15:55
  they were saved from the flood. God saved them
• 1:15:58
  and preserved them. Yeah. Well, we have the story
• 1:16:02
  after the flood where they're all blessed. And
• 1:16:06
  then Noah's like, nice, I'm going to make a vineyard.
• 1:16:09
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He presses some wine. He gets
• 1:16:12
  a little past the tipsy point. And he passes
• 1:16:16
  out. Yes. And we see in this story the way it's
• 1:16:21
  written is that Ham, one of his three sons, walks
• 1:16:25
  in and sees or uncovers his father's nakedness.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah. and afterwards he goes then and tells his
• 1:16:34
  brothers about it. And so what's interesting
• 1:16:38
  with this, let me go ahead and just read it,
• 1:16:40
  because the phrasing of this is really fascinating,
• 1:16:45
  and I think it's very important. So this is Genesis
• 1:16:49
  9, starting in verse 20. Noah began to be a man
• 1:16:54
  of the soil, and he planted a vineyard. He drank
• 1:16:58
  of the wine and became drunk and lay uncovered
• 1:17:00
  in his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw
• 1:17:05
  the nakedness of his father and told his two
• 1:17:07
  brothers outside. Then Shem and Japheth took
• 1:17:10
  a garment, laid it on both their shoulders, and
• 1:17:13
  walked backward and covered the nakedness of
• 1:17:15
  their father. Their faces were turned backward,
• 1:17:18
  and they did not see their father's nakedness.
• 1:17:21
  When Noah woke from his wine and knew what his
• 1:17:25
  youngest son had done to him, he said, Cursed
• 1:17:28
  be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be
• 1:17:31
  to his brothers. And we'll just go ahead and
• 1:17:33
  stop there. So what's interesting with this,
• 1:17:36
  first off, is so Ham does something bad. Yeah.
• 1:17:42
  And then Canaan gets cursed for it. Yeah. And
• 1:17:45
  so there's a lot of different things. But so
• 1:17:49
  if we take it at face value. It looks like Ham
• 1:17:54
  goes in and sees that his dad's not wearing any
• 1:17:56
  clothes, maybe laughs at him, and then goes and
• 1:17:59
  makes fun of him to his brothers. Yeah. And then
• 1:18:01
  it's like, okay, but then he gets cursed? Right.
• 1:18:03
  Like his son gets cursed? That's kind of weird.
• 1:18:06
  Yeah. So with that, I kind of want to jump to,
• 1:18:10
  I don't kind of want to, we're going to Numbers
• 1:18:14
  13. Sorry, not Numbers 13. What do I have written
• 1:18:20
  down here? Leviticus 20, 11. There you go. That's
• 1:18:24
  the one. And it says, if a man lies with his
• 1:18:27
  father's wife, he has uncovered his father's
• 1:18:30
  nakedness. Both of them shall surely be put to
• 1:18:32
  death. Their blood is upon them. And so we see
• 1:18:35
  it's like very similar language. Yeah. And so
• 1:18:39
  what it's kind of exposing to us here is that
• 1:18:42
  he didn't just see his father without any clothes.
• 1:18:45
  He actually slept with his mom. Yeah. And then
• 1:18:50
  he went and told his brothers about it. So, okay.
• 1:18:54
  And so, here's what's interesting, though, because
• 1:18:58
  then it still begs the question. That alone is
• 1:19:00
  like, that's kind of crazy. It is, especially
• 1:19:03
  as a modern reader. Yeah. We're not taught to
• 1:19:09
  read it that way. At least I wasn't. Well, the
• 1:19:12
  problem is Leviticus is pretty hard to get through.
• 1:19:15
  Yeah. Unless you're looking a lot deeper and
• 1:19:20
  you're seeing all the connections of things.
• 1:19:22
  Yeah, true. But you have to get through Leviticus
• 1:19:25
  to recognize what's happening in Genesis 9. Yes.
• 1:19:31
  Only as a modern reader. Yeah. But for who it
• 1:19:36
  was written. They would know. They would have
• 1:19:38
  known in Genesis 9. Yes. Because. But based on
• 1:19:43
  what you said out of Leviticus or what you read
• 1:19:45
  out of Leviticus, it's one thing like when you
• 1:19:50
  say the result. Yeah. Or when you say basically
• 1:19:53
  the insult, it reflects the deed done. Yeah.
• 1:19:59
  So, yeah. Yeah. And instead of them telling you
• 1:20:03
  what the deed was, they told you the insult.
• 1:20:06
  And they're like, you get it. Yeah. It's like
• 1:20:08
  the same as us using a euphemism. Exactly. Of
• 1:20:11
  like, oh, let's go hit the road. Yes. I'm not
• 1:20:13
  outside punching the street. Right. Yes. I'm
• 1:20:15
  getting in my car and driving away. Yeah. And
• 1:20:19
  that's what they're doing here. Right. But what's
• 1:20:22
  interesting to me is, and this is where it's
• 1:20:25
  like, this is kind of the fun part of studying
• 1:20:28
  the Bible, where it's like, let's look at, what's
• 1:20:30
  the weird stuff that jumps out here? Yeah. The
• 1:20:32
  first thing that I find interesting when I'm
• 1:20:34
  looking at this. is first when it's saying, we
• 1:20:41
  see Noah here who falls asleep in his drunkenness,
• 1:20:44
  and it says in verse 22, and Ham, the father
• 1:20:47
  of Canaan, saw and goes on. It's like, why'd
• 1:20:50
  you have to tell us he was the father of Canaan?
• 1:20:53
  Yeah, I mean, that's... It's kind of interesting.
• 1:20:55
  And then it's like, and then why does Noah curse
• 1:20:58
  Canaan? Right. So there's one idea that I read,
• 1:21:02
  which I'm not, I guess I could kind of see. And
• 1:21:06
  it was that, that jumps to the story of Balaam
• 1:21:09
  where God says, you can't curse Israel because
• 1:21:14
  I have blessed them. And it's like, well, Noah's
• 1:21:17
  not going to curse Ham who God has blessed earlier,
• 1:21:21
  post -flood. But with it being written that way
• 1:21:25
  and knowing what we know about it, it seems to
• 1:21:28
  say that Canaan is actually a result of the deed
• 1:21:32
  Ham did. Right. Or the misdeed, more likely.
• 1:21:36
  Yeah, yeah. And it's like, so Canaan is not a
• 1:21:39
  product of Ham's wife. It's a product of Ham
• 1:21:42
  and his mom. Yes. And because of that, Noah's
• 1:21:45
  like, now there's a curse. Yeah. And so what's
• 1:21:48
  also interesting with this, and we see, because
• 1:21:50
  you even said it earlier, it's like this is the
• 1:21:52
  naming of nations. Right. And that actually points
• 1:21:56
  back to Jacob and Esau, where we see the... the
• 1:22:00
  younger shall serve the older, even though the
• 1:22:02
  older was stronger. It's like, well, we don't
• 1:22:05
  actually see that event play out in those two
• 1:22:07
  individuals' lives, but we see it in the result
• 1:22:10
  of the nations. Yeah. It's a generation to come,
• 1:22:14
  yeah. Yeah, and I think that's what we see here.
• 1:22:16
  Noah is not cursing an individual baby. He's
• 1:22:19
  like, the nation that you will create, that curse
• 1:22:21
  will be upon you. Yeah. And so what's interesting
• 1:22:24
  is, so there's this huge misdeed that happens.
• 1:22:28
  A lot of... bad things with Ham and Ham's lineage,
• 1:22:33
  who then leads Ham to Cush to Nimrod. But then
• 1:22:38
  we see jumping all the way over to... I love
• 1:22:43
  this. It's fun, isn't it? Yeah. I got a lot written
• 1:22:48
  down here. Numbers 13. That's why I wanted to
• 1:22:51
  go here now. And this is where the spies are
• 1:22:54
  sent into Canaan. Canaan, interesting. Yeah.
• 1:22:58
  Well, wait, before you get there. Okay, yeah.
• 1:23:00
  So tying all of that together, it pulls back
• 1:23:04
  just the idea that like, okay, if we look at
• 1:23:08
  Genesis and you go, man, there's just so much
• 1:23:11
  in the first 10 chapters, in the first 12 chapters,
• 1:23:14
  so much in the whole book of Genesis. But the
• 1:23:17
  truth is, is like, and the reason it, it's like
• 1:23:21
  when, when Moses is writing this down. as he's
• 1:23:24
  writing it and as it's being revealed to him,
• 1:23:27
  they already know the result of everything. So
• 1:23:31
  they're seeing what the world looks like. And
• 1:23:34
  through the revelation of Genesis, they're getting
• 1:23:38
  why it is the way it is. So a really easy way
• 1:23:44
  to look at that and a very simple way to look
• 1:23:47
  at that is Genesis was not that complicated to
• 1:23:52
  the person hearing it. that revelation because
• 1:23:56
  that's what their world was it was a commentary
• 1:23:59
  to why and how their world got the way it is
• 1:24:03
  yeah our world is not like that now true it it
• 1:24:08
  is a it down line of that so like we have to
• 1:24:13
  kind of go back to what was their current view
• 1:24:17
  yeah and then go to layers in here yeah and then
• 1:24:21
  now let me go down line through the next couple
• 1:24:24
  thousand years or several thousand years to get
• 1:24:28
  to where I am now and how all of that timeline.
• 1:24:32
  That's why it's so hard for us to go back because
• 1:24:35
  it's not like Genesis is not giving us all of
• 1:24:39
  that. It's telling the original listener, this
• 1:24:41
  is why your world is the way it is. Yeah, that's
• 1:24:45
  exactly it. And then we have another layer, which
• 1:24:49
  is we live thousands of years after. that person
• 1:24:53
  heard that for the first time yeah so that's
• 1:24:56
  why it's like it almost says pg language yeah
• 1:24:59
  because in that instance there's a lot happening
• 1:25:01
  here yeah um and it's in some of it's pretty
• 1:25:04
  gruesome and it's a little gross yeah um but
• 1:25:07
  it's like yeah that's that's why they use the
• 1:25:09
  language of the use yeah sometimes yeah absolutely
• 1:25:12
  and showing the the severity of what's going
• 1:25:14
  on well and it's not a it it it shouldn't feel
• 1:25:17
  as crazy then When you get later to what you're
• 1:25:21
  about to read. Yeah. Because it's like, well,
• 1:25:24
  yeah, I told you about it and why, why it's happening
• 1:25:27
  or why it happened because of Genesis nine. Yeah.
• 1:25:32
  And then also like Genesis nine is happening
• 1:25:35
  because of Genesis six and because of like, it's
• 1:25:40
  all, and because of Genesis three and it's, yeah,
• 1:25:43
  it's all, and he's like going, this happened
• 1:25:45
  because of this, because of this, because of
• 1:25:47
  this. Yeah. It all is tied in, but it's a commentary.
• 1:25:51
  It's letting them know the origins. It's letting
• 1:25:54
  us know the origins. Context is everything. It
• 1:25:57
  should all tie together. Yeah, and it does. So
• 1:26:01
  we see in Genesis 6, we see it talks about the
• 1:26:06
  giants, the mighty men. Well, now when we jump
• 1:26:10
  into numbers, so we see kind of the origin of...
• 1:26:15
  It also says that there were... Yes. Then and.
• 1:26:20
  And after. And after. The flood. Yeah. Which
• 1:26:23
  then we see Nimrod. Yeah. Was the first mighty
• 1:26:29
  man. Yeah. He's associated with them. Right.
• 1:26:32
  But that. Yeah. That's probably why it says he's
• 1:26:35
  the first. Is because he's the first post flood.
• 1:26:40
  Yeah. That becomes a mighty man. That's actually
• 1:26:44
  interesting. And that would follow suit, yeah.
• 1:26:47
  Right. Yeah, that's fascinating. But the men
• 1:26:50
  of renown would have come as a byproduct of a
• 1:26:55
  situation in Genesis 6 between the sons of men.
• 1:27:00
  The sons of God and the daughters of men. Yes.
• 1:27:05
  how does nimrod become that if he's already born
• 1:27:07
  he had to be reborn in a different way that is
• 1:27:11
  another podcast that is definitely another podcast
• 1:27:13
  but so it's like it it seems weird to even when
• 1:27:18
  we tie into like the the masonic writing that
• 1:27:21
  we yeah we talked about we mentioned earlier
• 1:27:23
  yeah it's like well okay how do all these things
• 1:27:25
  tie in right well i think the thing that makes
• 1:27:28
  that connection for us is Numbers 13. Okay. In
• 1:27:31
  light of our reading of Genesis 9 and 10. Yeah.
• 1:27:34
  And it's so it's where the spies are sent into
• 1:27:38
  Canaan the Israelite spies and they report that
• 1:27:42
  they saw giants. Now these giants as the text
• 1:27:45
  says were the sons of Anak. Now we don't see
• 1:27:49
  like that direct like son of them to son of him
• 1:27:53
  to son of him geological connection but they
• 1:27:56
  were descendants of canaan right that's that's
• 1:27:59
  the nation that that noah cursed yeah and so
• 1:28:03
  it's like he's what they're doing here is tying
• 1:28:04
  all of this together and it's saying like here
• 1:28:08
  are these giants they're associated with canaan
• 1:28:11
  who you remember canaan yeah that was the product
• 1:28:14
  of ham and his mother noah's wife yeah um and
• 1:28:17
  they're connected to nimrod who built the Tower
• 1:28:21
  of Babel, who is associated with the Mighty Men.
• 1:28:25
  And it's like, well, this is a really complicated
• 1:28:27
  web that's being presented here now. Yeah, and
• 1:28:30
  it is all PG -13. It is, yeah. It's not PG, it's
• 1:28:35
  PG -13. Didn't I say 13? You did. Okay. I was
• 1:28:40
  like, I thought I said 13. I think in the 80s
• 1:28:43
  it probably would have been rated R. Oh, 100%.
• 1:28:45
  Because the actual through line. Is what Paul
• 1:28:50
  says is the worst sin of all is because you do
• 1:28:53
  it to your body. Yeah. And it's the through line
• 1:28:57
  of that practice of like sexual deviance. Yeah.
• 1:29:03
  Which is present in all of these situations.
• 1:29:07
  Yeah. Every situation where we see the association
• 1:29:11
  that's being made. Yeah. Has to do with, yeah,
• 1:29:14
  with deviance. Yeah. Which is, that's. that's
• 1:29:18
  kind of happening all the way through that. Yeah.
• 1:29:21
  It's like when there is human relations that
• 1:29:26
  isn't happening the way that God intended it
• 1:29:29
  to happen for them to be fruitful and multiply,
• 1:29:32
  what results is a byproduct of sin, and that
• 1:29:38
  result is cursed in the generation. Yes. And
• 1:29:43
  results in things that are... bad for the the
• 1:29:46
  nation itself things that are not supposed to
• 1:29:49
  happen right yeah and it's that and that's the
• 1:29:53
  um the days of noah yeah um but yeah no that's
• 1:30:00
  a that's a great connecting point and i you know
• 1:30:03
  i love i love doing that especially because it's
• 1:30:05
  like one to show it's like hey this is scriptural
• 1:30:08
  yeah we're not just pulling things like oh like
• 1:30:11
  i think enoch is a great resource for us to use
• 1:30:16
  with these things but showing it's like this
• 1:30:18
  is in scripture too scripture does outline these
• 1:30:21
  things and that's why I think for us we can have
• 1:30:24
  some amount of confidence in being like oh this
• 1:30:27
  is what Enoch is saying as well and it's like
• 1:30:30
  because it's grounded within what is scripture
• 1:30:33
  saying how does it outline it and the fact that
• 1:30:36
  there is an outline there well and it kind of
• 1:30:41
  There are things like that that can kind of fill
• 1:30:43
  in gaps a little bit. Yeah. Because you also
• 1:30:45
  have things that are not as credible as something
• 1:30:53
  like Enoch 1. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Which would be
• 1:30:56
  like, was it Book of Jasher? Yeah. Yeah. Which
• 1:30:59
  actually has more content. Because they talk
• 1:31:01
  about Nimrod quite a bit in Jasher. They do,
• 1:31:04
  yeah. Yeah. But that is the other weird thing
• 1:31:06
  is like with Nimrod. He's barely mentioned. Yeah.
• 1:31:13
  But how he's mentioned is seemingly intentional
• 1:31:19
  to carry on a post -flood storyline that Nimrod
• 1:31:25
  is actually carrying on and the days after of
• 1:31:31
  Genesis 6. Well, it goes back to that charge
• 1:31:33
  that he's made, that he's carrying on. Yeah.
• 1:31:37
  And then that he charges, according to the Masons,
• 1:31:40
  that they carry on. And I think that's what makes
• 1:31:44
  it scary to me. Absolutely. When it's like, oh,
• 1:31:48
  okay, so that's who they're aligning themselves
• 1:31:51
  with. And we see who Nimrod is from, what his
• 1:31:56
  line is, what his focus is, his career path,
• 1:32:02
  if you will. But then also... In some ways, the
• 1:32:06
  history that the Masons gave about, oh, pre -flood,
• 1:32:10
  he discovered geometry and wrote it down and
• 1:32:13
  blah, blah, blah. It's like, we don't have those
• 1:32:14
  details in scripture. No. But that storyline
• 1:32:17
  kind of pans out. It does. And that's what's
• 1:32:20
  scary. Yeah. It's like, oh, so there's a level
• 1:32:23
  of history here that kind of lines up with scripture
• 1:32:26
  in enough ways that makes it kind of awful. Yeah.
• 1:32:32
  Yeah. Yeah, and if they're claiming to be of
• 1:32:39
  the tradition or the charge of Nimrod, then here's
• 1:32:46
  the other thing, and this is probably the last
• 1:32:49
  thing that I'll mention because I feel like we're
• 1:32:51
  tying a nice bow right now. Oh, nice. But the
• 1:32:55
  interesting thing to me is that the Tower of
• 1:32:59
  Babel, it's not about Nimrod. Right. It's a product
• 1:33:06
  of Nimrod. Yeah. So like that's the other thing
• 1:33:09
  is like Nimrod establishes these nations. I think
• 1:33:14
  it's like Assyria. Yeah, Babel. Nineveh. Nineveh
• 1:33:19
  is a big one. And so like there are these nations
• 1:33:22
  that Nimrod establishes. We don't necessarily
• 1:33:28
  have it that Nimrod is the one who builds the
• 1:33:31
  Tower of Babel. Because he's not in Genesis 11.
• 1:33:36
  I think even in, there is one of the writings
• 1:33:39
  that the Masons released in some of their old
• 1:33:42
  manuscripts. And it says, I think he had 40 ,000
• 1:33:46
  that they called Masons as well. Oh, wild. Yeah.
• 1:33:51
  So he had master builders. Well, and that, that,
• 1:33:56
  so like, that's kind of what I'm saying is like
• 1:33:58
  the interesting thing to me about it is that
• 1:34:01
  Nimrod himself, what he was doing and like what
• 1:34:04
  he was about is, is not necessarily in scripture.
• 1:34:08
  Doesn't really have a ton to do with being a
• 1:34:12
  master builder. Yeah, here it is. Go ahead. So
• 1:34:15
  it says in the cook MS thus repeats the story.
• 1:34:19
  And this same neighbor, Nimroth, Nimrod. began
• 1:34:24
  the Tower of Babylon, and he taught to his workmen
• 1:34:27
  the craft of masonry. And he had with him many
• 1:34:30
  masons, more than 40 ,000, and he loved and cherished
• 1:34:33
  them well. That's crazy. Yeah, that's their writings.
• 1:34:37
  Yeah, and to make that clear, that's from the
• 1:34:44
  masons' writing. Correct. So we're learning that
• 1:34:47
  now. Yeah. Yes. And we're not saying that like
• 1:34:50
  that's true. We're just saying that's what they
• 1:34:52
  say. That's what they said. Yeah. Yeah. And that's
• 1:34:55
  part of their constitution. Correct. So then
• 1:34:58
  that tradition is passed down from something.
• 1:35:01
  So that again, that's what makes it kind of scary.
• 1:35:03
  Yeah. But I think, I think it goes back to like,
• 1:35:07
  I think that's the fascinating thing to me thinking
• 1:35:09
  about this is that he becomes a mighty man. Yeah.
• 1:35:16
  He becomes a Gabor. Yeah. Before the Tower of
• 1:35:20
  Babel. Mm -hmm. He wasn't using the Tower of
• 1:35:23
  Babel to become a mighty man. Right. And I feel
• 1:35:28
  like that's how I always heard it framed. Yeah.
• 1:35:31
  That he was trying to become a god. But the way
• 1:35:34
  this is framed, it's like, no, he already became
• 1:35:37
  one. Yeah, and then the nations that he built
• 1:35:42
  built towers. to the gods yeah but also like
• 1:35:49
  there's a whole other episode for the tower of
• 1:35:52
  babel yeah and i'll um let me see i can find
• 1:35:57
  this um but that is one of the things that's
• 1:35:59
  interesting thing to me because here's why because
• 1:36:02
  i think in general and what hopefully this podcast
• 1:36:06
  exists to do is to kind of take those things
• 1:36:08
  and go hey there's something bigger actually
• 1:36:10
  going on here yeah like you can't like i feel
• 1:36:13
  like we just have to stop being in Sunday school
• 1:36:18
  or Bible studies or just in a casual conversation
• 1:36:22
  and being like, yeah, the Tower of Babel, yeah,
• 1:36:27
  they all spoke the same language and then they
• 1:36:29
  didn't. Yeah, so then like, yeah, after that,
• 1:36:32
  then you have Abraham, you're like, no, hang
• 1:36:35
  on. We're going really quick here. Hang on. What?
• 1:36:39
  Yeah. The whole, everybody spoke the same language
• 1:36:42
  and then they just didn't? Why is that not a
• 1:36:46
  bigger, like, I feel like there's so many things
• 1:36:48
  that are like, wait, let's spend weeks on this.
• 1:36:52
  What do you mean they all spoke the same language
• 1:36:55
  and then they didn't? Like, what is that? So
• 1:36:58
  there's like a lot of things like that. And then
• 1:37:00
  you go, wait, what do you mean? And there's one
• 1:37:02
  sentence that says Nimrod then becomes a mighty
• 1:37:07
  man. He becomes what we've read of three chapters
• 1:37:12
  before. That was a big problem and a big reason
• 1:37:16
  why the flood happened. What do you mean now
• 1:37:19
  he's like that quickly after? Yeah. All of a
• 1:37:23
  sudden there's the byproduct of it again, which
• 1:37:26
  is down line of ham and the issue that happened
• 1:37:29
  right after the flood stopped. Yeah. So like
• 1:37:33
  right after they get off the boat, like that
• 1:37:37
  within that generation. There's a sin that causes
• 1:37:41
  the same thing again. Yeah, and repeats. Yeah.
• 1:37:45
  And so, well, here's what's interesting with
• 1:37:48
  that. And this goes back to Josephus. Okay. And
• 1:37:54
  so this was on his writings of Nimrod. Okay.
• 1:37:57
  And Josephus is a historian. He is. And so what
• 1:38:01
  he wrote on was Jewish texts and Jewish literature,
• 1:38:05
  as well as he used other older, actually, There
• 1:38:10
  are some Egyptian historians that Josephus uses
• 1:38:14
  in references that we have actually no record
• 1:38:16
  of today. We don't have any of their writings.
• 1:38:18
  Oh, yeah, because Alexandria. Yes. Yeah. And
• 1:38:21
  so all we have of them is what Josephus wrote
• 1:38:24
  on. Right. So he's an interesting character.
• 1:38:26
  Yeah. And so he has... Yeah, because he was a
• 1:38:30
  historian for Rome. Yes. Yeah. Or for the Romans.
• 1:38:35
  But I think... I don't know if he was Jewish
• 1:38:37
  by birth. I don't know that offhand. Yeah, but
• 1:38:41
  maybe I think he was like a Jerusalem or an Israel
• 1:38:50
  -based Roman historian. I know it makes sense.
• 1:38:55
  Because I think, yeah, actually I wouldn't even
• 1:38:57
  go that path. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so this
• 1:39:01
  is his description based on the information that
• 1:39:04
  he had through. Jewish tradition in the literatures
• 1:39:07
  that he was referencing. He describes Nimrod
• 1:39:11
  as a bold man and of great strength of hand.
• 1:39:14
  He persuaded them, the people in his nation,
• 1:39:18
  not to ascribe it to God as if it were through
• 1:39:23
  his means they were happy, but to believe that
• 1:39:26
  it was their own courage which procured that
• 1:39:29
  happiness. He continues by saying that Nimrod
• 1:39:32
  gradually shifted their government toward tyranny,
• 1:39:35
  turning them away from God and to depend on himself
• 1:39:37
  solely. He also turned his focus on opposing
• 1:39:41
  God directly by building a tower too high for
• 1:39:45
  the waters to be able to reach if God should
• 1:39:47
  decide to drown the world again. Oh. So he's
• 1:39:53
  the first dictator. Yeah. Yeah. But what's interesting
• 1:40:00
  with that... I like that description of the Tower
• 1:40:02
  of Babel. Yeah, and so his... To outsmart God.
• 1:40:06
  He's basically like, this is my revenge on God
• 1:40:09
  because he's convinced the people that you don't
• 1:40:13
  need God to be happy. Right. Enlightenment. You
• 1:40:16
  are all that needs to be happy. Yeah, that's
• 1:40:19
  classic enlightenment. Yeah, it's like, that's
• 1:40:21
  not a new thought. No. We think that's new today.
• 1:40:24
  It's like, that's been around since Nimrod. Yeah.
• 1:40:27
  And then he turns, he turns, tries to shun everyone
• 1:40:30
  away from the Lord and says, no, no, no, we're
• 1:40:33
  going to get our revenge on God. And because
• 1:40:35
  we're, we're opposing him. Right. And if he decides
• 1:40:37
  to flood us again, we built this tower. He won't
• 1:40:40
  be able to touch us. Yeah. That's wild. And it's
• 1:40:43
  like that, that adds so much more context or
• 1:40:46
  ideas to the scene that scripture outlines. Yeah.
• 1:40:49
  Where it's like, okay, this is not good. Yeah.
• 1:40:52
  Like to what you were saying earlier, it's like,
• 1:40:54
  let's get out of like the, oh yeah, cool. It's
• 1:40:58
  like, no, there's a lot happening here. Yeah,
• 1:41:00
  a ton. And it's like, this whole story blows
• 1:41:03
  up. Yeah. It's severe what's going on. And the
• 1:41:08
  fact that God, in his mercy, all he did was confuse
• 1:41:13
  their language. Yeah, what grace. Well, also,
• 1:41:17
  the faithfulness of God. Yeah. Because he said,
• 1:41:19
  I'm not going to flood the earth again. Right.
• 1:41:21
  And he didn't. Yeah, and the main reason why
• 1:41:26
  he did, seemingly, based on how that's laid out,
• 1:41:29
  it tells us that it happens again within a couple
• 1:41:34
  of chapters. Yeah. And once again, it goes back
• 1:41:37
  to that like, hey, you know how the world is
• 1:41:40
  how it is? This is the origin of all that stuff.
• 1:41:44
  You can trace it all the way through this. Not
• 1:41:46
  only... through these events, but through these
• 1:41:48
  people. And you can see why the Messiah has to
• 1:41:53
  come, but also has to come through the line of
• 1:41:56
  Seth and has to avoid these people because of
• 1:41:59
  what they did. Yeah. And it has to come through
• 1:42:02
  this specific bloodline. So as we do that, it
• 1:42:06
  creates justification for what we are doing.
• 1:42:10
  And when I say we, I'm saying Moses and the Israelites.
• 1:42:16
  Yeah. Like what they are doing, what he's writing
• 1:42:19
  down is explaining why they are taking the actions
• 1:42:23
  they're taking. Yeah. God is telling us to do
• 1:42:25
  this and here's why written down in the text.
• 1:42:28
  Yeah. Like these people are opposing us because
• 1:42:31
  this, this and this happened. These are their
• 1:42:34
  fathers who did these things. Yeah. That's why
• 1:42:37
  they're opposing us. And I think that's, that's
• 1:42:40
  huge because it's one, it's like, so the story
• 1:42:44
  in scripture. It's bigger than a piece of fruit.
• 1:42:48
  Yeah. It's bigger than human beings. And I think
• 1:42:52
  it's a common thing that I found myself in, and
• 1:42:55
  sometimes I still do, and I think often as Christianity
• 1:42:58
  we can, is, all right, how is the Bible about
• 1:43:03
  me? What does it have to do for me? And it's
• 1:43:07
  like the more that for me when I study and I
• 1:43:11
  uncover these things and I find these connections
• 1:43:13
  here, these layers, it's like, No, it has nothing
• 1:43:16
  to do with me. Yeah, and the more that that's
• 1:43:18
  the least interesting question. Exactly. It's
• 1:43:21
  like, actually, I'm a pretty small player in
• 1:43:23
  here. It doesn't diminish the fact that Jesus
• 1:43:28
  did what he did. Right. That God was faithful
• 1:43:30
  and merciful in his justice. Yeah. But it's like,
• 1:43:34
  okay, so I'm a pretty small player in this whole
• 1:43:37
  thing. There's a lot more than one decision one
• 1:43:40
  human made one time. Yeah. There's a lot more
• 1:43:44
  at stake here. But it all goes back to the fact
• 1:43:47
  of Yahweh God is in the process of redeeming
• 1:43:52
  his creation. Right. He's reordering what he
• 1:43:55
  ordered. Yeah. But his creation was like, let's
• 1:43:58
  make it chaos again. Yeah. He's like, no, no,
• 1:44:00
  no. I'm establishing order. Right. And that's
• 1:44:03
  the process. That's the story we see. And we
• 1:44:06
  see all the events that are happening in here
• 1:44:07
  that unfold in the layers of Genesis 1 through
• 1:44:11
  10 alone. Yeah. And then further on throughout
• 1:44:13
  the rest of scripture that it just continues
• 1:44:15
  to reaffirm the mess that's being created. Yeah.
• 1:44:20
  Yeah. I feel like. Yeah. So like geometry is
• 1:44:28
  not bad. If you said it was, I wish I heard that.
• 1:44:35
  Like back in school. Teacher, I can't learn this.
• 1:44:40
  Yeah. So. So the charge of Nimrod going through
• 1:44:45
  the messianic tradition and constitution has
• 1:44:51
  got to do a little bit more about him being a
• 1:44:57
  dictator and the practices that he carried out
• 1:45:01
  than just his knowledge in geometry. Yeah. It
• 1:45:07
  has to because otherwise why would they be so
• 1:45:09
  secret about it? Yeah. I mean, we see through
• 1:45:14
  Josephus how he writes is, well, the charge that
• 1:45:19
  Nimrod gave to the people was you don't need
• 1:45:25
  God. Right. You need yourself. Yes. And let's
• 1:45:30
  make fun of God. Yeah. Yeah. Blaspheme. Yeah.
• 1:45:35
  So going back to the Catholic Church statement.
• 1:45:41
  They are pretty adamantly against irreconcilable
• 1:45:51
  differences between beliefs, not just potential
• 1:45:57
  practices. So I don't know about practices in
• 1:46:02
  Freemasonry. I've heard about things. Everything
• 1:46:07
  is speculation. Yeah. Just we don't know anything.
• 1:46:10
  However, if even Josephus, who lived back first
• 1:46:16
  century, is writing about the charge to blaspheme
• 1:46:21
  God, then that is directly an irreconcilable
• 1:46:28
  difference between Masons and Christians. Absolutely.
• 1:46:35
  So you can't be both. Yeah. But the real question
• 1:46:40
  is, was Nimrod a Freemason? It turns out. What
• 1:46:50
  do they call it? Yes. Grand. Grand. Grandmaster.
• 1:46:58
  Yeah. Turns out that he was a grandmaster. Yeah.
• 1:47:05
  So, like, not only was he a Freemason. He was
• 1:47:08
  a good one. And apparently, according to Josephus,
• 1:47:12
  he had 40 ,000 men. Yeah. Well, that was Josephus,
• 1:47:16
  right? Josephus wrote. Yeah. No, no, no. The
• 1:47:18
  Masons wrote that about him. That's right. Yeah.
• 1:47:20
  So he had 40 ,000 great Masons underneath him.
• 1:47:25
  So he was. He was working. Yeah. He's the grandest
• 1:47:30
  of masters. He was before microphones. Dude,
• 1:47:33
  I don't. I don't know. That's why you need geometry,
• 1:47:37
  just so you can talk to everybody. I know, at
• 1:47:39
  the same time. Yeah, that's fascinating to me.
• 1:47:43
  But, yeah. So, was Nimrod a Freemason? He was
• 1:47:50
  a Grandmaster. Yeah. Three, two, one.