Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 197. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: Small Things Matter - Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE

Transcript

197. Donor Engagement Kindergarten Style: Small Things Matter - Jonathan McCoy and CFRE, Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:02
  Unknown: And I'm Becky.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:06
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:15
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:23
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:34
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Happy Friday, Happy
• 0:38
  Becky Endicott: Friday, everybody.
• 0:39
  Jonathan McCoy: Can you believe it? Like we're already wrapping up our kindergarten series? I feel like we're just starting kindergarten again.
• 0:44
  Becky Endicott: I'm telling you, I have enjoyed playing with this clay, modeling clay. It has been a wonderful series. I'm really excited about today's episode.
• 0:50
  Becky Endicott: So
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: how do we didn't get the snack thing worked up.
• 0:53
  Jonathan McCoy: And we talked about where's our grandpa crackers. So if you're joining us this week, for the first time, we have this in our five part series about donor engagement, kindergarten style.
• 1:03
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, our style is very laid back in the sense that we feel like there's a lot of pontificating that happens in our industry, that just over complicates what really matters and development. And we're here to wave the banner that says, Man, the things that we learned in kindergarten are actually the most disruptive things that you can do that can help you raise more money and create a bigger movement at your nonprofit.
• 1:24
  Becky Endicott: And I have to recap what we've talked about, because we're at the end of the series here. We've talked about the golden rule. We've talked about playing nicely in the sandbox, we've talked about using your listening errors in sharing equally. And today, we're going to be talking about why small things matter. I mean, it's matter. They do matter. And I mean, we live in the States, we live in a culture of excess and capitalism. And we're hardwired to hear that, you know, we need to have big dreams, big accomplishments. And really what we're saying is, if you go back to the tiny little nuances in life, think about the things that matter to you the most the micro moments, we're saying that small is the new big.
• 2:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, and I mean, it's not just a trend, either. But I think that there's you know, this resurgence of focusing on the grassroots organizations that fill in these gaps and provide small things that provide continuum of care for people care for the community at a level that can only be done when you're really playing small. And I mean, then the best of way playing small to the things that really matter and take care of people. Okay, so if you've been tracking with these talks, we'd like to go three different ways with it.
• 2:32
  Jonathan McCoy: The first is we want to unpack just some general principles about this, this kindergarten principle. And then we want to walk you through some case studies, because we're going to back this up to show you, we're not just talking heads about this, this is happening at organizations right now that we can all learn from. And we're going to wrap it up with some pro tips, because who doesn't want to take action today, and actually get into some of these things. And
• 2:52
  Becky Endicott: we want you to actually do these actionable ideas. Now, it's not enough. We love that you're here listening.
• 2:58
  Becky Endicott: We know podcast listeners are learners, but we want to get you activated. And actually, I think this could be kind of an exhale for everybody. Because doing something small is really about being observant. It's about caring deeply. It's about listening incredibly well. So let's dive into some of these principles. And the first one is exactly what I just said a little bit ago, which is smallest, the new big. So small actions, they sort of make up our habits, they make up our thoughts, and the little things that we tend to overlook, build up to be the really big ones. So today, we're talking about how do you take a step back? How do you notice very small micro nuances about your donors, about your organization, about the way that people are engaging with you online, it is time to start noticing what's going on. And it's also about putting those listening ears back on sharing equally, and figuring out what makes someone tick.
• 3:51
  Jonathan McCoy: And I'm glad that you brought up listening, because it's been a thread of these kindergarten conversations. Because we just believe as an industry, we're not doing this well enough. And not just with our donors, because I mean, that's the fundamental of getting to know somebody's story and how that passion could maybe align with what you're working on. But also just listening and watching to understand the micro moments understand how your mission can plug in and make a deeper impact. So you have to be really in tune and in touch with the nuance of how your mission is actually impacting people that you're trying to reach. Are you in touch in? Are you do you have a relationship? Are you on the ground having those conversations? And it starts with listening?
• 4:28
  Becky Endicott: And you know, I think just our industry has been so wrote for so long. This is the process this is how you go about it. And the thing is that I think that donors are starting to feel the mechanical nature of that. So it's really about exerting some effort and delighting in the small things that create true connection and deeper engagement with donors.
• 4:48
  Becky Endicott: And this is really going to pressure us to listen to throw away sort of our we're gonna have to throw out those elevator scripts that we think we're armed with walking in to talk to a new prospect We're even at Spitz, somebody that we know really well. And it's about showing up extremely authentically and hyper focusing in on something that is actually very important to the person you're talking to.
• 5:09
  Jonathan McCoy: I agree. And I and you know, we're not saying like you didn't, you don't want to lean into things that are automated, like, that's not what this conversation is. I mean, our, our day and age today demands it, you know, that we have to lean into tech, so we can steward the amount of relationships we need to do. But where are you carving out to show that nuance, you know, showing that it's not just like this automated series, that people are interacting with a computer? How do you build that into your cultivation at every level of your organization. So you know, we believe that the little things really are connected to our memories, to our emotions, and to the things that matter most to us and our own personal lives. And so that's why we feel like baking this into your experience, thinking about the donor experience, or the beneficiaries experience with your organization. That's why it's so incredibly critical.
• 5:58
  Becky Endicott: And I'll just share a quick little story here.
• 6:00
  Becky Endicott: I think that'll help people crystallize. Like, how am I going to do this? Who hates small talk and chit chat, I mean, most people probably don't like it. I like it. Of course, I'm very social. Talking about the weather yesterday. My father in law loves the weather. And so if he wants to talk about that, I'm going to talk about that with him. But I think what I'm saying here is you have a little bit of time, when you're sitting down with your donor, whether you're coming on Zoom, whether you're sitting with them in their office, that is your sweet spot, to find a small thing that matters, asking what's going on?
• 6:32
  Becky Endicott: How is the family what's you know, what's new in your life?
• 6:34
  Becky Endicott: Tell me about that picture.
• 6:34
  Becky Endicott: Here's a little hack I use whenever I would go into a meeting with someone, when I walk in, I would take whatever that split second is three seconds, and I would look around. And I would say what's important to this person based on what's in this room? Is it a bunch of trophies, it's a lot of pictures of themselves, that's tells me I probably need to talk to about them quite a bit, is it pictures of their family, is it you know, photos of them fly fishing, or their cabin, it's like, these are opportunities to engage to talk about things that you find are small little things that you could have in common.
• 7:07
  Becky Endicott: So here's some tips. Slow down, and be really present in those conversations. Look around you be observant, you know, and put that dadgum phone on silent unless you have a sick child at home. Because even just those little red notifications that pop up, distract us from that deep connection that we're trying to foster within the person that is there. And that is where the micro moments really begin.
• 7:35
  Jonathan McCoy: And if you think about the fact that when you're building relationships with donors, you're trying to build that with the organization. So you know lives on beyond your time there. And so that's why it's critical that the small things, the small things, you notice the small things that you're told, is documented, because that's how you can build and create these really deep, connected relationships that go beyond just you with the organization. So looking for ways to systemize this and really bring it into the way that you do your work is going to help you change the game.
• 8:04
  Becky Endicott: Yes. And I would also say, one of your Hallmark principles of small things that matter starts with asking questions, you have got to ask a lot of questions. And then you have to sit back and absorb and listen to everything, John, great point on documenting because I will tell you, there have been many times where I would get out of a conversation and I would go to my Dragon Dictation to remember that I need to do it on my personal I know and I would say okay, this is exactly what we talked about, this is what they shared. And then I would just like shoot that off. That would be the only way Becky would ever get a contact reported. So remember the nuance of what you talked about, they're going to notice that your donor is going to notice that and they're going to know that you came back to it and felt it was important enough to them to bring it up again.
• 8:46
  Becky Endicott: And then thread that gratitude into those micro moments. And then you're going to see your engagement, stewardship in probably your solicitation go to the next level. Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies to neon one, neon one provides software solutions to growing nonprofits, but they really do so much more than that. They're also incredibly passionate about creating community in the social goods sector. We believe in the power of community. We've seen the greatest philanthropic movements happen when people work together to achieve common goals. Neon wine can help you do just that.
• 9:22
  Becky Endicott: They created hearing giving connections a community that brings fundraisers together and empowers them to learn from each other's experiences. With weekly checklist and an active Slack community. There's no better way to prepare for your year in success. Want to be a more connected fundraiser, join their community today at NEON one.com backslash where for good or follow the link in our show notes
• 9:52
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey friends, after meeting some of the most visionary leaders and world changers in the nonprofit sector today, we realized they all have one thing in common they in invest in themselves and their teams so they can stay relevant to what's working now to succeed and scale their missions. You know us we believe education is for all. And that's when we created we're for good pro Pro is reimagining nonprofit professional development, giving you access to incredible live coaching events with some of the best thought leaders like Shanna Palmer and Lynn Wester and more.
• 10:17
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• 10:23
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• 10:27
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• 10:43
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, so let's that's giving you a lot of principles. Let's dive into a few case studies.
• 10:46
  Jonathan McCoy: And, you know, we can't talk about donor relations without mentioning our favorite queen of donor relations, Lynn Wester.
• 10:52
  Jonathan McCoy: She's the donor relations guru.
• 10:55
  Jonathan McCoy: She's been on the podcast two different times, sharing her wisdom, sharing her personal story. But I put a lot of weight on what she says because she spins and she has lived and breathed this for over a decade has worked with big and small organizations around the world.
• 11:08
  Jonathan McCoy: And so what she says really matters. And it's really fascinating, because we asked Lynn when she came on the Podcast, episode 23. So this is a really long time ago, we said, you know, what's a moment of philanthropy that stuck out with you. And you know, after all the examples she could pull from, she talked about this magic phone call that the president of the university would call her parents every year on the anniversary of the scholarship that she funded. That moment, that small memory of taking action of saying we notice you we remember you we appreciate you took two minutes of the President's time. And as the most prolific thing that stuck with the donor relations guru, are we listening like this is where the secret sauces,
• 11:52
  Becky Endicott: and it wasn't like a fancy tech. I mean, we're talking about a phone call. And I remember Lynn saying her parents would stand by the phone all day, they would sit next to the phone all day. Yeah, waiting for that call. And what it what a great micro moment that that President that Chancellor was able to bring about based on that scholarship. So another one I want to bring up is the story of the pearl house. This was episode 67. And we had the executive director Courtney Bullard on and the pearl house is just an incredible school for Ghanaian girls. And they had been taken out of some really terrible situations and traumatic life events that they had, whether it was in their villages or their hometowns. And they come to this school, and they LIVE with all of these girls, and they get educated and they get health care. And some are so happy to be in a safe and nurturing environment. And Courtney was talking about, there was a girl that was coming to them and they went and they sent their car to their her village. And when she got there, the girls were so excited to meet with her. The story of them encircling the car as it was pulling up and banging on the roof of the car in the windows in the joy all of that became synonymous was such a joyful, welcome. What a micro moment that talks about the safety, the security and the hope that lies within this house. That is a story that should be shared over and over in the pearl house.
• 13:14
  Jonathan McCoy: Wow. I mean, it is these small moments. And I even think we kicked off the podcast episode one with Julia Campbell, you know, she is a digital marketer that works with organizations around the world also. But she was telling a personal story about this organization that saw this man, he came in week after week, every Friday, I want to say he gave like 10 or $15. Just consistently and no one ever stopped to ask why. I mean, they said thank you. And I think some of the basic stewardship tenants were in place. But until this one day, and this was months later, that somebody said, Hey, what's you know why? Why does this place matter to you? What is this donation mean to you?
• 13:50
  Jonathan McCoy: And you know, it was a place that was a if I remember right, his addiction. Yeah, it was an addiction centers and addiction center. And he dropped off that donation each week because he said, This gift represents his allowance. And I had lost him a few years ago from an overdose.
• 14:09
  Jonathan McCoy: And for him it was this really healing way to honor his son's legacy, but just be in this rhythm of generosity around his memory. And that was going on for months. And no one knew, you know, that went on that he kept walking through the doors and dropping off that cash or cheque or whatever it was he
• 14:27
  Becky Endicott: turned into a board member eventually, somebody that got so engaged
• 14:31
  Jonathan McCoy: in we really want to champion this that there's, you know, it's easy to focus on big gifts and you could be missing what are the stories?
• 14:37
  Jonathan McCoy: What are the small stories that are happening in your organization? I guarantee that they're happening, but are we listening? And are we asking the questions to really dig in and find them and connect with people?
• 14:48
  Becky Endicott: I love that story. And as we get into pro tips, I just want to tell you all this is your moment. Now today is your moment. The world is ready and waiting to tell you their story. If you can take that donor pyramid, flip it upside down, start looking at your base of donors, we need to connect with those people, especially people that have been giving to us for a very long time. So let's start to get into some of these pro tips.
• 15:17
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, we've got to say, automate the essentials.
• 15:55
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, we've already kind of rift on this on this episode, but you want to take care of the things that need to be automatic. But we just always encourage you to leave space to surprise donors, you know, with the small touch points, remembering special occasions.
• 16:07
  Jonathan McCoy: So don't like automatically send out a birthday card, that's an easy thing to just make a quick text or a birthday call to somebody to show that there's a human, it's not just like they're having this relationship with the computer at the nonprofit because that sounds really terrifying.
• 16:21
  Becky Endicott: I mean, I'll give you an example of one I did last week, I had a dear friend who was one of my former donors, and it was her recovery anniversary. And as everyone knows, Anniversaries are a really big deal. And the day that you went got sober. I just sent her a little text, you know, with a funny little meme.
• 16:34
  Becky Endicott: And it was like we chatted all day off and on, it's just little things that make people feel like you care about them, and that they are very much seen. So we want to talk about a pro tip and storytelling, because storytelling is really going to capture the nuance of the small things that reveal a much deeper level of impact. So when you're thinking about storytelling, it's really about how well are you listening and Laindon? How are you listening for very specific details. It's the details that draw us and and then pairing that with stewardship is just kind of a next level protip. So we'll give you an example here. So if you've listened to the podcast, with new story, we had Sara Lee on and she was telling the story of a little boy who came out of one of their 3d printed homes, he had his his new home, he was so excited to have his own clean space. And he puts these monster slippers on. And they think they're so cute, because they look like little house shoes.
• 17:32
  Becky Endicott: And his mom says no, no, he has been holding on to those for two years. Because he didn't want them ruined in a home that had a dirt floor. We have an actual floor now. And he's so excited to wear them what next level storytelling on something that was such a micro moment, you
• 17:50
  Jonathan McCoy: know, but we also see it because I love that story. Also see it in fundraising. And Laval Brewer was on the podcast this season, from South County outreach, they have this really innovative food pantry that just has dignity built into every step. And I love that, you know, he saw a gap and just you know, they were getting mac and cheese and those boxes were going out everywhere.
• 18:08
  Jonathan McCoy: But we all know you can't really make delicious mac and cheese without the butter and the milk, right? Those kinds of items. But that's true with any kind of like home cooked kind of food.
• 18:17
  Jonathan McCoy: And so they built a campaign around that, I would say it's the small things matter. So they had a milk eggs and butter campaign. And they said they had crazy engagement, because people relate to that, you know? And so it's like, what is the small things in your storytelling, in your case for support, pull out the small nuance. And that's the kind of stuff that's going to really connect in a unique angle, especially at year end when people are already nostalgic and already kind of in a goodwill kind of state of mind.
• 18:45
  Becky Endicott: Oh, that's a good one. Okay, so your next one is analyze your gratitude process. Make sure your thank you to ask ratio is balanced.
• 18:52
  Becky Endicott: And I would even say that you should consider engagement as a huge portion of your gratitude process. Part of bringing somebody along in the life of your mission is just bringing them into the story and planting some little seeds about what's going on how how philanthropy is making a difference there, what your beneficiaries are facing.
• 19:15
  Becky Endicott: And actually it doesn't all have to be Norman Rockwell all the time, we can share some of the I would say like the unsavory parts of our business because that is exactly what our beneficiaries are experiencing.
• 19:25
  Becky Endicott: So think about that ask to thank you ratio, we need to be engaging, we need to be saying thank you, we need to be showing that impact way more often than we need to be asking for a gift so do an audit on that and I think you'll find that it's going to set the tone for a lot of your content planning for the next couple months.
• 19:45
  Jonathan McCoy: We talked about that you know your volunteers that are you know, love your organization want to be told how to activate they want to know how what success would look like and what's something a meaningful way that they can plug in and you can give them these tasks that may seem small, like you know, sharing gratitude, sending thank you notes, making calls on behalf of the organization. But that small human touch point can really help you scale because I know a lot of things we talked about, you know people will question us about how do you scale this will you use humans that want to help? You know sometimes that's a collar at an organization like a big university may have a calling program that can scale and do the thank you videos that we you know are sharing on the podcast next week. So stick tune for our community week we're going to tell a really interesting case study of how to scale video gratitude, but this is just simple like activate and ask people that want to plug in and give them a list of names.
• 20:33
  Jonathan McCoy: people to reach out to and just share gratitude.
• 20:36
  Becky Endicott: Your next one is find your donors who've been giving to you for half or more years that you've been in existence. So these are your loyal donors, go back into your database, find your loyal donors, make them feel special, even if they've only been giving a, you know, a couple dollars a year to you. That is someone who has stayed with you over a long period of time, you need to find a way to it even a small way to make them feel special. Is there a special mailer that they get?
• 21:04
  Becky Endicott: Is there a certain touch point that they can get through phone or maybe on social media, if they're on there, find a way to connect with them, and let them know that their long term giving has created a future for you and the future looks like x and talk to them about the impact of where your mission is today?
• 21:22
  Becky Endicott: That's one really quick pro tip.
• 21:24
  Jonathan McCoy: Because I mean, dollar amount is not the sole indicator of someone's connectivity with your organization. You know, and we've seen this, especially with the rise of monthly donors, those may be some of your most loyal donors. So look into how can you invest in show value to them and show appreciation to them? Because over the long haul, those are the people the loyalty that you're really going to want to tap into. Okay, this has been quite a series, right?
• 21:48
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, we have like, theories.
• 21:48
  Jonathan McCoy: But it's so funny when we get to have conversations with people that are doing the most disruptive things. And it truly can boil down to, they're doing something so basic that comes from kindergarten, like I'm just like cheering so loudly from the sidelines over here.
• 22:03
  Becky Endicott: And I just think when I think back to the last 15 months of the life of this podcast in the life of this company, the moments that means so much to me are the tiny ones.
• 22:13
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, ones where you all have reached out and shared a story of something that's worked or how you've listened to an episode ad nauseum and it's helped you get a job. You know, those are the micro moments that fuel our hearts donors are really no different. And so I've got to end I pulled this quote for you, Mister artists, by Vincent van Gogh, he says great things are not done by impulse, but by a series of small things that were brought together. And great things are not accidental, but must certainly be willed. We need to will these interactions to happen, we need to create these small micro moments we need to find that base of donor flip that pyramid upside down.
• 22:53
  Becky Endicott: Find somebody who's been with us for a long time, I can assure you lifting their story, making them feel seen creating a micro moment for them. You're gonna have a planned giving donor prospect on your hand and you'll just have a rabid fan and a believer.
• 23:06
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, donor engagement kindergarten style.
• 23:08
  Jonathan McCoy: Have we convinced you over five episodes that it comes down to just these easy core common things we can all do? Bring your
• 23:15
  Becky Endicott: apple juice and your graham crackers. Come on over. We'll have something to learn and circle back with us.
• 23:20
  Becky Endicott: We want to know what worked for you rooting for you guys.
• 23:23
  Jonathan McCoy: We appreciate you.
• 23:25
  Julie Confer: Hey, friends.
• 23:25
  Julie Confer: Thanks so much for being here.
• 23:27
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• 23:58
  Julie Confer: Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is sunray by Remy Boris boom