Latest / Called to Serve / Sarah Cogswell

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Sarah Cogswell · Called to Serve

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  Hello and welcome. We are so excited to share with
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  you a whole new season of stories about real women in
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  ministry. Over 100 women have been
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  ordained in Atlantic Baptist churches since 1954 and we have
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  been able to interview many of them through Called to Serve.
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  My name is Hannah Hunt and I am one of the research associates
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  on this project along with Joetta Fernando and our project
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  lead doctor, Melody Maxwell. We'll be sharing some exciting
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  news with you later this season. So if you have not yet
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  subscribed to our podcast or shared one of these stories with
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  a friend or Co worker, please stop and do so today.
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  You'll be listening to Sarah Cogswell.
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  Sarah was ordained in 2024 and serves as the Pastor of
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  Spiritual Formation and Care at the Journey Church in Moncton,
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  NB. She describes how she wrestled
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  through being called to ministry as a woman and how she has
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  learned to embrace her limitations in order to avoid
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  burnout and remain healthy in ministry.
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  I was born in Montreal, QC. My parents were both Christians
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  and we were part of different denominations.
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  We were part of the Mennonite Church in Manitoba.
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  Then when we moved to New Brunswick, we were initially
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  part of the Mennonite Brethren Church in Riverview and then
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  moved to the Baptist Church from there.
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  And I was in grade 12, I believe, when I was baptized.
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  I've always been very involved in church ministry, like even in
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  high school, being a Sunday school leader.
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  And then after I was married, my husband and I being involved in
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  church. And I'd be on worship team, I'd
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  be on leading small groups and women's groups and all of that.
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  You know, the church was the place where I felt that I could
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  really release my passion. Work wise, I was working as
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  administrative assistant. I worked as an assistant to the
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  registrar at Randall for a bit. Then when my first son was born,
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  we decided I was going to stay home.
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  That was something I wanted to do.
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  And so my husband was working and I was home, which was
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  challenging financially, but I'm thankful we were able to do
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  that. I was at home for about 12
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  years, but during that time I also did other things.
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  I did aerobic classes at her church.
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  I was a face painter at the zoo. I did child care in my home.
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  And then I was the cook at my son's school.
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  I was the lunch lady. Like I I, I made the meals and
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  stuff I did at Crandall, the Tesla certificate, teaching
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  English. I thought, oh, that'll be
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  something I'll really enjoy teaching English to others.
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  And then the church called me. Looking back now, I can see, I
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  believe that God was calling early, like even in, in
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  childhood, having this deep sense of, of wanting to be
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  missional, to share the good news.
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  I even had a dream. I, it's funny, it's a dream that
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  stuck with me of being, you know, seeing Moses on the
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  mountain preaching to all the people.
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  And then it was me doing that. But I grew up in a
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  complementarian context, so I always thought, well, I'll be a
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  missionary because I'm a I'm a girl and a boy.
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  And just being very conscious of that.
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  But the actual call to vocational ministry would have
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  started about eight years or so ago when my church hired me into
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  a position as a intern children's director and then
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  asked me to stay on as pastor of Children and Families and pursue
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  ordination. And that's kind of when I really
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  started to wrestle with this call.
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  So over the course of seven years, I was working on my
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  master's, one of my first classes, the Old Testament class
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  with Glenn Wooden. He was talking about Bible
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  translation and reflecting on his own experience with his
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  daughter and his daughter reading the Bible.
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  And just saying, I want my daughter to read the Bible and
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  know that this is for her as well.
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  It really struck me and helped define an experience that I
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  hadn't had words for. And that was for myself growing
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  up reading the Bible and wondering at times is this for
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  me as well. I think it was through that I
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  was able to put words to having this complementarian background
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  and wrestling with what does it mean that my church has called
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  me into this ministry. It has been, I'd say all seven
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  years of, of wrestling with it. Coming to the point of saying,
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  yes, I do believe God has called men and women that he, the Holy
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  Spirit gifts men and women to vocational ministry to be in in
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  various roles, including lead pastor roles in the church.
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  And then I guess affirming for myself, yes, God has called me
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  personally, Sarah, into this role of vocational ministry.
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  I really appreciate gaining A broader understanding of what
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  what is the breadth of the argument?
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  Like why do people have a complementarian view?
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  Why do people have an egalitarian view?
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  And then looking at Scripture through those lenses, being able
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  to pull apart some of the different threads of, you know,
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  the New Testament Halloween passages that talk about women
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  in ministry. But you know, what is really
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  being said. They're being able to kind of
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  say what descriptive as a whole reveal even through the Bible,
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  seeing women like Deborah and Alda and in the New Testament,
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  Phoebe and Junior and some of these women and within
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  Scripture, Old and New Testament, seeing it in our
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  church history, even in our own Baptist traditions, it within
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  the church, women have had rules of leadership.
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  Women have been ordained and just seeing the different cycles
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  that have happened, the cyclical where, you know, there's a
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  movement of the spirit, there's a new expression of authentic
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  faith. Women are given more, more
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  equal, if not always equal roles.
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  And then as it becomes more institutionalized, the dynamics
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  of power become more evident and then women's roles are reduced
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  again. For me, it was about laying down
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  some things, some ideas of what being a pastor was.
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  My dad was a pastor. Just seeing some of the, the,
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  the dynamics of that and, and saying, OK, do I really, do I
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  really want to get into this? Do I really want to be in this
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  role? A mission trip going to
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  Guatemala? The Mating Baptist Ministries
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  coordinators that I was talking with, they said, well, typically
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  if a pastor's on the team, they have the pastor preach.
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  But the church in Guatemala, the Baptist Church, is primarily
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  complementarian, so we're not sure if they're going to, you
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  know, I prepared a message just in case.
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  And I really sense God saying to me, if I open a door for you, it
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  will be open and nobody can close it.
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  Then I did preach at one of the churches we were at.
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  It did feel affirming, I guess that if God's going to call me,
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  then he's going to lead the way and I don't have to fight for
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  it. I can let him fight for me.
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  It was nerve wracking going through the process for my
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  ordination, writing my statement of faith of kind of wrestling
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  with how to describe my theology and my understanding of, you
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  know, the various categories that they have.
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  I got a lot of encouragement and affirmation from my pastoral
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  mentor from Sandy, and she actually arranged for me to go
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  have like a little mock examining council with a group
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  of other casters who've either been on the council or been
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  through it. And that was very helpful.
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  Yeah, it was nerve wracking, I think just in the being in front
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  of four or five dozen other years and elders in the in the
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  church, even sitting, you know, going in and sitting right
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  beside and Doctor Anna Robbins and like 2 feet from each other,
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  facing each other and having questions, although she she was
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  not intimidating at all. I planned for my coordination
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  with the lead pastor. Those are currently Pastor
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  Carolyn Deans. And she really wanted me to
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  include elements and people that were meaningful to me.
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  So it was maybe a little more work than I had initially
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  planned. I guess I was thinking there was
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  just kind of a formulaic thing, but we kind of tailored it.
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  I chose the songs and Sandy came and preached and had my family
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  involved. Even my my parents and my
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  brother and his wife are overseas.
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  They submitted a video to be a part of it again.
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  I think I was going into it feeling nervous, feeling just
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  still some of the lingering wrestling around the felt
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  expectations of what somebody who's an ordained minister is
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  like, not seeing myself as a typical pastor.
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  So it was, I think even then it's just a step of faith that
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  God would lead me into what his role is for me, His version of
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  what pastoral ministry is. So yeah, I've been with the
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  Journey Church here in Longton since I think it was June of
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  2016 when I started. It is a multi site church.
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  So before COVID we had two and then we had a third campus.
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  So I was overseeing children in family ministry part time, 20
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  hours a week. If there were children who
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  wanted to be baptized, I would do that discipleship classes
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  with them. I was choosing the the
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  curriculum for the children's program.
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  Also recruiting, training the volunteer teams.
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  I was the only paid staff in that area.
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  I felt a lot of stress. I did, it was a lot of, I guess
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  stretching because it was doing events and and having to
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  interact with people in the level that for me as an
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  introvert would be quite draining.
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  So that was up till COVID. And then when COVID hit, it was
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  actually a blessing for me, even though it was still stressful in
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  a lot of ways, but it, it just gave me a break from that week
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  to week pressure. And then during that, I, I
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  realized I was at the place where I knew I couldn't move
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  forward the same way I had done it.
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  So after 2021, I started to approach Billy Pastor about
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  developing my team and creating another role to work with me.
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  So we hired on someone as a Journey Kids director and then
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  we further grew the team to have campus coaches.
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  So these are all part time roles that each campus would have
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  somebody there on a regular basis kind of doing some of the
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  things that I just couldn't do all by myself.
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  So then working as a team, that certainly was so, so much help.
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  But I think it was also interesting that the the post
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  COVID reality for children and family ministry had changed.
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  We kept kind of waiting, well, when are we going to go back to
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  normal? I think everybody knows that
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  phrase, right? When, when are the families
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  going to come back the way they were?
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  When are we going to see the numbers the way they were?
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  And we found that it would happen for a few weeks and then
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  the families would trickle off, volunteers would step up, and
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  then they would step back. And it's really been like that
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  since. I feel like it's really only
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  this past year that we're seeing more of a regular rhythm.
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  So one of the other kind of legs of this whole journey, 1 is my
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  education through Acadia, the other is my work at the church,
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  and then the third is being part of the Sozo Center, which is on
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  spiritual formation, spiritual care for pastors.
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  So I got plugged into that as well.
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  And that was, I would say, a lifesaver for me that enabled me
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  to continue in this path without completely burning out.
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  One of the big things I really appreciate is Pete Skizero's
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  teaching, the emotionally healthy spirituality, learning
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  and accepting that God created us with limits.
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  God created me, you know, with all the different personalities
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  and works and things that I have.
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  And being introverted isn't a fault or a flaw.
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  It can be a limitation in that I don't have abundant energy to to
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  be with other people. So yes, I have time with people
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  and then I need time to recover. I need time to make sure I
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  practice self-care and have time by myself with things that fill
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  me up. And I do appreciate because I
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  know my lead pastor does very much affirm that the self-care
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  and being aware of how many hours I'm working, even though
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  I'm an introvert, you know, one of the things that draws me to
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  being in this ministry is developing relationships with
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  people, having one-on-one conversations.
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  Part of my personality is I feel like I, I want to be friends
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  with everyone. I want to connect with everyone.
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  But again, especially being multi site, that's been very
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  challenging. How, how do I do that?
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  And the reality is, again, coming back to limitations, I'm
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  not able to, I can't be friends with everybody in the way that I
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  would want to. I need to say I'm thankful to be
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  on a team. And if I can't connect with
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  these people, someone else can do that.
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  Really actually moving away from that model that I probably grew
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  up with and had that expectation of, that the pastor is is the
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  only one who can really meet the needs of everybody in the
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  church. That's not true.
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  One of our values as a church is equipping.
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  So leaning into letting others be a part of the ministry that
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  it's not all about me or up to me that I can equip and power
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  and release others to be doing that ministry as well.
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  I took the SODA course on trauma and then this year I took the
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  one on resilience. But especially that first one
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  really gave me a passion for working with people who've
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  experienced trauma. So I've just recently changed
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  roles, although I'm still overseeing children and families
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  ministries for now, but I'm going to be stepping more fully
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  into the role of pastor of spiritual formation and care.
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  And that's really looking at the church as a whole.
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  Like what does discipleship look like for us?
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  How do we have a different emphasis so that followers of
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  Jesus are developing that resilience?
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  They are growing those deeper roots so that when we face
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  challenges, we're not kind of blown away by it, you know,
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  seeing how COVID, so many people over swept away with it.
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  So I would have been at times the only woman in the in the
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  leadership room. We have a number of staff.
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  So they'll be different tiers, I guess of spaces where, you know,
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  staff come together in meetings. But there'd be certainly be
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  rooms where I was the only woman.
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  It's hard to curse out sometimes.
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  How much of it was my own wrestling and insecurity and
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  feelings of imposter syndrome and what were some maybe just
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  unawareness by the male leadership, even though they did
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  affirm me in that room, they affirmed me as a pastor, but it
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  wasn't fully as affirming as it could have been.
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  And I say it's interesting because now it's the opposite in
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  our staff where we have mostly women and we still have have
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  some men in the room, but they're in the minority.
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  Actually asked one of the young adults on our pastoral team and
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  and he said, how, how does this feel to you?
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  Like, does this feel strange? Do you feel you know anything
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  about it? He said, oh, no, I and I don't
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  know if it's just his generation that it feels normal for him to
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  have women in pastoral ministry, which is great.
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  I believe that the journey is the first church to have a
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  female lead pastor in our area. And now I know Reverend Kim
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  Butler has been hired as lead pastor at the Salisbury Baptist
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  Church. But I think for our area in
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  particular, that is fairly new and there's not a lot of women
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  in roles of paid vocational ministry.
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  But I I do sense that there is a bit of a shift.
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  I guess I would consider myself a feminist in some ways, but
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  acknowledging that there are different probably branches and
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  it's a spectrum, right? I think it's important to affirm
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  woman as being equally human, you know, the equal rights in
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  our humanity and in the church, that we are equally gifted by
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  the Holy Spirit and that we are part of the body of Christ
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  equally. And actually, you know, it was
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  interesting in some of my studies coming across the term
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  womanist as even the next step, cause feminists can also be
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  excluding for women of basically non white women.
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  And so to recognize that even as a woman, not all women have the
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  same experience that I do and can have, I feel like I'm
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  developing A trauma informed perspective.
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  Safety is an important factor in being able to, to grow, to heal,
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  to move forward. So if women are not in safe
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  spaces, I can't criticize them maybe for not making the choices
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  I would because I, you know, if I'm feeling I'm in a place of
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  safety, then I can move forward. I can speak up.
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  I can, you know, maybe fight for myself or for others in a
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  certain way. But if you're not in a place of
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  safety, then conforming might be necessary as a way of surviving.
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  And I guess specifically thinking complementarian,
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  egalitarian, if if someone's in a complementarian household,
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  complementarian church culture, they may not have the safety.
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  I think we can still pray and ask God to make the way and God
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  can make the way through that. Going back to that idea too,
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  that what is God calling me to step up into?
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  What is he calling you to stand up for injustice issues?
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  But also, where is he asking me to rest in him and trust him to
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  fight on my behalf? And I think that's nuanced.
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  I think that can be different for different people.
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  Thank you, Sarah, for sharing your story with us.
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  Called to Serve can be found on Facebook and Instagram, and you
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  can keep up to date with our latest research and events at
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  Called to serve.ca. We'll be back next week with
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  another woman's story of serving in ministry.