Latest / The Insurance Growth Lab / How Caleb Cramer Used Webinars to Scale AgencyZoom to Thousands
Transcript
- Caleb [0:00:00]: It's really tough actually trying to move someone from unaware of a problem to totally bought into your product, philosophy and how you do things on one cold call. Caleb [0:00:10]: And so for trying to remove friction, thinking like, what's easier getting a one to one commitment or inviting someone to an already established webinar on a very, very specific and continuing to be tested topic. Callan [0:00:27]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab, Where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry. Callan [0:00:35]: I’m Callan Harrington Founder Flashgrowth And in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and sure tech, and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scale to channel or solved a specific growth challenge. Callan [0:00:52]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company. Callan [0:00:57]: Today, I'm joined by Caleb Cramer. Callan [0:01:04]: Caleb is the chief revenue Officer of LAUNCH, Where he helps reshape how producers talk about risk, value and real operational problems. Callan [0:01:12]: Before that, he's worked at industry leaders on both the tech side and the insurance side at Indian, ascend and agency Zoom, and I was fortunate that I got to hire Caleb into the insurance industry, and a few of those stories showed up on the show. Callan [0:01:28]: Luckily for me, not all of them. Callan [0:01:30]: And the big reason I wanted to get Caleb on the show was to break down his process for group demos. Callan [0:01:37]: There's always a debate in the insured tech space, especially in the agency tech space is, do you have your sales reps provide one to one sales demos, verse, push them into a group demo. Callan [0:01:49]: For the right company, I think a group demo flow is an excellent way to maximize the resources that you have. Callan [0:01:57]: And Caleb walked us through the exact process they used to add agency Zoom to bring on thousands of agencies to their Crm product. Callan [0:02:05]: So with that, I'm gonna stop talking and let's get to the show. Callan [0:02:09]: Caleb? Callan [0:02:16]: First, let me just say, welcome to the show. Callan [0:02:19]: For audience members that might not know, Caleb and I worked together for... Callan [0:02:24]: Man, I remember how many years that it actually was back at the shipyard were all of us shipyard smart harbor where a number of us came from within the within the insured tech space and the insurance space just in general. Callan [0:02:36]: And I think the the issue that we thought could happen was, are we going to take this seriously. Callan [0:02:42]: Fair? Callan [0:02:44]: Fair. Callan [0:02:44]: I think it's fair. Callan [0:02:45]: I'm actually curious, given our time together, why did you decide she want to stay in insurance. Callan [0:02:52]: Well, you know Caleb [0:02:54]: I Actually left for a cup of coffee. Caleb [0:02:56]: I went to start dot com started working with other industries. Caleb [0:03:00]: And there's something about... Caleb [0:03:02]: There's this ind find thing about the industry and the people and the industry that just makes you want to help them. Caleb [0:03:08]: You see them as not having the resources and tools that other verticals just take for granted. Caleb [0:03:14]: And so it's really cool introducing this industry to things that might have picked up earned elsewhere and just introducing them to these things that can really be game changing to them. Callan [0:03:25]: Yeah. Callan [0:03:25]: Now it's funny because everyone talks about insurance. Callan [0:03:28]: In nobody has any idea on how they got a new insurance. Callan [0:03:31]: Right? Callan [0:03:32]: I I I think the number one thing that somebody says is, well, I didn't... Callan [0:03:35]: I didn't anticipate going to insurance. Callan [0:03:36]: Why that is that nobody anticipates going into insurance. Callan [0:03:40]: But it is one of those industries where it's really hard to not be in. Callan [0:03:46]: Once you in it, especially, and I think for me it's the people, and I've always now I started out as an agent. Callan [0:03:51]: So, like, that always for me was I've always had the utmost respect for the agency. Callan [0:03:58]: I think the agencies, especially I'd would say those mainstream street agencies are the absolute epitome of the small business owner. Callan [0:04:05]: And to your point, you do see a lot more of that support, not... Callan [0:04:09]: And I I'll say, community support, sales support, that's do the roof in the insurance space. Callan [0:04:13]: But the technology and things like that and being able to automate processes. Callan [0:04:17]: It's always felt that it's like a step behind. Callan [0:04:20]: And definitely not to default to the agencies. Callan [0:04:22]: Would you agree? Caleb [0:04:23]: The only thing I would disagree with is think there's an emphasis on sales. Caleb [0:04:27]: It's lifeblood of the agency. Caleb [0:04:29]: I don't know if there's real true sales support like you and I have experienced in our career. Callan [0:04:35]: What do mean by that specific? Caleb [0:04:36]: Sales development, the craft of sales, I don't think that this is available in the insurance space. Callan [0:04:43]: Well, I think I hear what you're saying. Callan [0:04:45]: And but it I think it's more siloed. Callan [0:04:47]: If you go to any of the captive, the captive have phenomenal sales training. Callan [0:04:51]: State farm, all state, nationwide formally nationwide American family because like, that is everything to your point. Callan [0:04:58]: They've got the road roadmap. Callan [0:05:00]: And I remember when I was at Northwestern Mutual, sales training was phenomenal. Callan [0:05:03]: When I went independent, you're just on your own. Callan [0:05:05]: You hope that your your network or whatever gets you is kind of training But if I didn't have that going into it, that would have been a lot more difficult. Caleb [0:05:14]: Right. Caleb [0:05:14]: So I do feel for the producers that are struggling and fl and vying for validation, but not really being given any type of road roadmap to be a a good seller. Caleb [0:05:25]: Yeah. Caleb [0:05:26]: Or perfect the craft of selling. Callan [0:05:28]: Yep. Callan [0:05:28]: So you've now done this on... Callan [0:05:30]: You've done it on the insure tech side. Callan [0:05:33]: You've done it on the service business side. Callan [0:05:34]: You've been in an agency network, I'm curious how have those different experiences impacted each additional role that you've had? Callan [0:05:43]: Is there anything that surprised you a lot when you went from one side to the other? Caleb [0:05:47]: I guess I didn't I didn't fully understand. Caleb [0:05:49]: The struggle to differentiate that producers have. Caleb [0:05:53]: I didn't fully appreciate that until I was on the network side. Caleb [0:05:57]: And then it's been a huge extrapolation being really embedded in an agency now and building the tool that I I am at LAUNCH to to help with this. Caleb [0:06:06]: It that's been the big revelation that it's just... Caleb [0:06:08]: It's trench warfare out there. Caleb [0:06:10]: It's... Caleb [0:06:10]: Everybody considers the upside that everybody needs the product that brokers are selling. Caleb [0:06:17]: There is tremendous upside that. Caleb [0:06:18]: So you got a massive tam. Caleb [0:06:20]: But the downside is... Caleb [0:06:21]: It's always rip and replace. Callan [0:06:24]: Meaning, if I'm hearing and what you're saying, you're saying that I'm talking to a a a potential prospect. Callan [0:06:29]: Insurance compulsory, so everybody has to have it, for the most part, most insurance is compulsory in the P and c space. Callan [0:06:36]: And so it's ripping out replacing, how do we differentiate as an agency. Callan [0:06:40]: Is that correct? Caleb [0:06:41]: Correct. Caleb [0:06:41]: Yeah. Caleb [0:06:42]: So just the different flavors how to do that? Caleb [0:06:46]: It's been fun to study the people that do it successfully, the type of flavors that they do it. Caleb [0:06:51]: By? Caleb [0:06:52]: And then the the versus the vast majority of of how brokers are approaching that differentiation problem. Callan [0:06:59]: Yeah. Callan [0:06:59]: For me it was going from being an agent to going to a tech company. Callan [0:07:05]: To me, the biggest thing that I noticed right away was so often on the tech side, you'll build a product that you think really good and you think is going to be... Callan [0:07:16]: Have some monumental impact on that agency, and then you demo it, and they're like, wow, I don't know if this is gonna work. Callan [0:07:23]: And then I can't tell you how many people I've... Callan [0:07:25]: I have said, like, though the agent just doesn't get it. Callan [0:07:28]: Okay. Callan [0:07:28]: Go, you, if you've done the job, you understand exactly why that... Callan [0:07:32]: That's not gonna work. Callan [0:07:33]: And that doesn't mean this isn't a problem of, you know, if you ask people what they want, they're gonna say I want a faster horse, It's but that came to mind. Callan [0:07:40]: Well, exactly. Callan [0:07:41]: But have you spent time in that agency. Callan [0:07:44]: Have you actually saw the workflows. Callan [0:07:46]: People don't go into the agents? Callan [0:07:48]: They don't see as people are going through these different things? Callan [0:07:51]: Understand the different hassle that they have to go through? Callan [0:07:53]: And then think how does this tool fit into the workflow that they're doing? Callan [0:07:57]: That was the biggest thing that I saw? Caleb [0:07:59]: I'm glad you brought that up and buckle up because I blame Dale Carnegie. Callan [0:08:03]: Interesting. Callan [0:08:03]: Not not when I suck coming. Callan [0:08:06]: What's that dale Carnegie is the read? Callan [0:08:10]: Okay? Caleb [0:08:11]: Yeah. Caleb [0:08:11]: So everybody's been winning how to win friends and influence people. Caleb [0:08:15]: Would you agree? Callan [0:08:16]: Are you asking do... Callan [0:08:17]: Do I think that everyone's... Caleb [0:08:19]: Have you noticed that everybody and their sister has been reading, how do we Callan [0:08:23]: Popular Yeah I was say popular in a book for sure. Caleb [0:08:25]: People have heard of it. Caleb [0:08:25]: Yeah. Caleb [0:08:25]: So everyone has latched on to the sound by, you know, beat interested not interesting. Caleb [0:08:31]: And they think that means hound people with questions on Zoom calls. Caleb [0:08:37]: But really what being interested actually means practically is what you're talking about, like, actually doing agency interviews, getting in the trenches with the people that you're trying to serve, do that deep work, let that compound. Caleb [0:08:49]: So you're coming into them with actually a foundational hypothesis about their life that they can shake their head and agree with versus, hey, I'm gonna steal forty five minutes your time. Caleb [0:08:58]: I'm gonna pepper you with questions that's gonna feel like an interrogation. Caleb [0:09:02]: Don't worry. Caleb [0:09:02]: I'm being interested in you. Caleb [0:09:03]: It's not a pitch. Caleb [0:09:05]: I think that's where we've gone Aw a little bit, and we've missed the script. Callan [0:09:10]: As far as people that are serving agencies. Callan [0:09:12]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:13]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:13]: I I would agree with that. Callan [0:09:14]: And I think that just in general, in this era, in the Ai era, if you haven't done your research and you don't come to that with a viewpoint and that viewpoint better be valid. Callan [0:09:26]: Meaning, like, it it can't just be a viewpoint that it's insurance is the easiest one where if you don't know what you're talking about and you talk to an agent, not gonna give you the time of day. Callan [0:09:35]: And if you do, they're gonna give you a ton of time everybody knows that Ada will love to talk about something with somebody that's shown that they've taken it... Callan [0:09:45]: Like, they've demonstrated they've done an interest because they've proven that they've put the work in to get to that point. Caleb [0:09:50]: That's right. Callan [0:09:50]: And I think that that's going to be... Callan [0:09:51]: I think that's gonna be go to market in general. Callan [0:09:53]: You have to do that. Caleb [0:09:55]: Show with a hypothesis. Caleb [0:09:55]: Even if it's wrong. Caleb [0:09:56]: People love to correct. Caleb [0:09:57]: But what people really don't have any time for and there's... Caleb [0:10:00]: They're totally fatigued by. Caleb [0:10:01]: Is just... Caleb [0:10:02]: Let's get on and play twenty questions. Caleb [0:10:04]: Yeah. Caleb [0:10:04]: They're totally fatigued by that. Callan [0:10:07]: I tend to agree. Callan [0:10:07]: I mean, I think it's just anybody... Callan [0:10:09]: I would challenge any of those sales reps that are in those positions and... Callan [0:10:13]: Whether it's an insure tech company, a carrier or whatever that might be. Callan [0:10:16]: If you want to go up market, you better learn that real fast because there's gonna be... Callan [0:10:22]: There already is zero patient the best enterprise reps do this all day. Callan [0:10:25]: They do it all day. Callan [0:10:26]: They know that business so well that they should be able to be a consultant to that industry to that business. Callan [0:10:32]: But now that's table stakes. Callan [0:10:34]: So you better be an expert at that. Callan [0:10:36]: I, I would argue that position turning almost more into a consulting position than it is a sales position. Callan [0:10:41]: Totally. Callan [0:10:41]: But I didn't necessarily bring you on all day just to talk about this problem. Caleb [0:10:45]: About the bad dale K. Caleb [0:10:46]: Not that wasn't... Callan [0:10:48]: Well, I... Callan [0:10:48]: You did warn. Callan [0:10:49]: You did went on the way here, you said, I'm gonna be going after Dale card. Callan [0:10:54]: So if I just look surprised there. Callan [0:10:57]: I shouldn't have, because this was this was a fair Caleb [0:11:00]: one dude. Callan [0:11:00]: Yeah. Callan [0:11:00]: But what I really wanna talk about is one of the things Always been super impressed from a go to market perspective that you've executed on our group webinars. Callan [0:11:08]: I'm gonna get more specific because I'm sure a lot of people are hearing this and thinking group webinars. Callan [0:11:13]: It's not that. Callan [0:11:14]: That's not that cool. Callan [0:11:15]: But. Caleb [0:11:16]: I invented it. Callan [0:11:17]: Yeah. Callan [0:11:17]: You we invented easy the inventor of the group webinar, mister Webex. Callan [0:11:20]: One of the common challenges, and I I heard this million times from, a a number of different insure texts. Callan [0:11:25]: Especially in the early days, you're probably pretty strapped for resource, especially if you have a raise venture capital but believe if you have, it's it's not necessarily the best strategy to immediately run and hire ten sales reps to just start working the thirty two thousand five hundred independent agents. Callan [0:11:40]: There's a lot of them. Callan [0:11:41]: So you think that maybe that works, but then you realize that unless you have a really high Ac, which there's not a lot of really high Ac products within the, agent space. Callan [0:11:51]: Mh. Callan [0:11:51]: If it's in the main street agent space, it quickly becomes very much not cost effective to just go and do one to one demos with every single one of these agents. Callan [0:12:01]: Now in the early days, you can make the case, do some things that don't scale and and I could see that point. Callan [0:12:06]: But where I thought you as always did. Callan [0:12:09]: And this is dating back to the agency Zoom days when this, I know you've done so much since then, but like, that's where I really remember it. Callan [0:12:15]: You had a full process on getting people to a group demo and enrolling them. Callan [0:12:21]: And I would argue it's kind of like a marketing plus sales. Callan [0:12:25]: That was always the piece that I thought was missing. Callan [0:12:27]: What did you start thinking about that process versus a one to one process. Caleb [0:12:33]: Kemp pinpoint exactly when, but I do agree with doing non scalable things. Caleb [0:12:39]: Right? Caleb [0:12:39]: I do you think, especially early in finding that product market if. Caleb [0:12:42]: You gotta do some non scalable things But you shouldn't do only non scalable things And the the largest swath of your reps activity shouldn't be non scalable things. Caleb [0:12:53]: And you if you look at a just cold call, that's the least amount of leverage you're gonna get. Caleb [0:12:57]: It's one to one. Caleb [0:12:58]: And, you know, I've made a lot of cold calls, and I continue to make cold calls. Caleb [0:13:02]: But it's really tough actually trying to move someone from unaware of a problem to totally bought into your product philosophy and how you do things on one cold call. Caleb [0:13:13]: And so for trying to remove friction, thinking like, what's easier getting a one to one commitment or inviting someone to an already established webinar on a very, very specific and continuing to be tested topic that people can identify with that, yes. Caleb [0:13:31]: I I do have this distress. Caleb [0:13:33]: In my life and inviting them into webinar. Callan [0:13:36]: Is it because it's easier typically. Callan [0:13:38]: Right? Callan [0:13:39]: You're going to call them, and either you're gonna do one of two things. Callan [0:13:43]: You're going to use that initial call to schedule an additional fifteen minutes. Callan [0:13:46]: Or schedule a discovery call. Callan [0:13:48]: So it's a quick intro. Callan [0:13:49]: I know him interruption. Callan [0:13:50]: I'm gonna schedule this call versus, hey, you don't know me. Callan [0:13:55]: Let me send you a link to the webinar where you can learn more about me. Callan [0:13:59]: Is that essentially it? Callan [0:14:00]: Yeah. Callan [0:14:01]: I'm gonna play devil's out of a advocate here for a minute or challenges. Callan [0:14:03]: And for... Callan [0:14:05]: Because people might be thinking, that feels pretty personal. Callan [0:14:07]: How do you get around that? Callan [0:14:09]: Explain yourself. Callan [0:14:10]: I'm putting... Callan [0:14:11]: I'm bringing you on to a webinar where I'm doing a one to many and I'm speaking to the category as a whole as opposed to just speaking to your direct agency. Caleb [0:14:21]: Those people that are wanting to be that are wanting to opt in to the one on one experience, they will find a way opt in to the one on one experience. Callan [0:14:30]: What that mean? Caleb [0:14:31]: I send you a webinar link. Callan [0:14:32]: Mh. Caleb [0:14:33]: The folks that want to actually engage about their specific agency problem to think that they're unique, the wanna actually discuss things with you one on one. Caleb [0:14:42]: That email is a great gateway to start the conversation of, actually, like, you guys do this. Caleb [0:14:48]: Can we have a conversation about this directly. Caleb [0:14:50]: Like, the window is not closed. Callan [0:14:52]: So though... Callan [0:14:53]: You're saying self select. Callan [0:14:54]: Self select. Callan [0:14:54]: They'll say, you know, I... Callan [0:14:56]: I'm not interested in the webinar This seems interesting. Callan [0:14:58]: Love to have a deeper conversation about this. Callan [0:15:00]: Yeah. Callan [0:15:00]: So I wanna walk through. Callan [0:15:03]: What does this process actually look like? Callan [0:15:05]: Are these all marketing driven? Callan [0:15:07]: And you mentioned calling. Callan [0:15:09]: Are you doing cold calls to then book a demo? Callan [0:15:13]: What is that... Callan [0:15:14]: What is the will process look like, getting, like, super into weeds. Caleb [0:15:17]: Yeah. Caleb [0:15:17]: Demand gen marketing, it's awesome to have early on. Caleb [0:15:22]: It's just not moving the needle for the sales team? Callan [0:15:25]: Why is that? Caleb [0:15:26]: Because you're usually fighting the the battle of brand awareness first. Caleb [0:15:30]: Right? Caleb [0:15:30]: So, like, if in terms of air cover, marketing for an early product market fit company is you would reps would just love it if you're calling in, like, you could somebody just say yes to have you heard of us. Caleb [0:15:42]: Right? Caleb [0:15:42]: That's like, the first check. Caleb [0:15:44]: Mh. Caleb [0:15:44]: So it's still hand to hand combat. Caleb [0:15:46]: Trying to get folks to actually engage. Caleb [0:15:49]: So it is a lot of calling. Callan [0:15:50]: Yeah. Callan [0:15:50]: So you've got the list. Callan [0:15:53]: How are you deciding who to call? Caleb [0:15:55]: Well, this is where the deep work comes into play. Caleb [0:15:57]: Trying to figure out who's actually experiencing the problem, and this is typically getting into role based percent based segmentation, Callan [0:16:06]: what's your process to figure that out. Caleb [0:16:08]: So first step is to actually try to get some frontline information. Caleb [0:16:12]: So this is where, like, if you haven't done some early customer reviews, early customer interviews. Caleb [0:16:17]: I'm a big believer in letting your customers write the problem statements. Caleb [0:16:23]: Right? Caleb [0:16:23]: Like, you have to, like, find find somebody. Caleb [0:16:26]: Early on, you might be burning through a pretty big list, but only to pressure test your problem statement. Caleb [0:16:33]: So in the early days, you might be calling thirty two thousand agencies, testing the problem statement. Caleb [0:16:40]: You get some validation on the problem statement, And then you filter which agencies are probably going to be feeling this problem? Caleb [0:16:48]: Well, is this problem because they're... Caleb [0:16:50]: Are they feeling because they're a large agency? Caleb [0:16:51]: Are they feeling because they're a small agency? Caleb [0:16:53]: Is it resource overload or is a lack of resources that are causing this agency to feel this particular problem. Caleb [0:16:58]: And then within that agency, there are only specific specific roles that are feeling this? Caleb [0:17:03]: Where does the bottleneck show up first and who feels of the strongest. Caleb [0:17:07]: So it's a lot of just I've got kind of a Mad lips style framework that I'm honestly happy to send anybody to... Caleb [0:17:15]: That's interested in this, but it's really not a silver bullet. Caleb [0:17:19]: It's just doing a lot of self guided meditation on the account. Caleb [0:17:23]: Mh. Caleb [0:17:23]: And the problem to to get to that. Caleb [0:17:25]: Yeah. Caleb [0:17:26]: And then if you haven't shrunk the Tam by at least fifty percent, then you haven't done enough self guided meditation on it. Callan [0:17:34]: Yeah. Callan [0:17:34]: I mean, I totally agree. Callan [0:17:36]: I think that is you have to start there. Callan [0:17:38]: So for us, I think about that from the perspective of, yeah if it's a brand new product, you've never sold it, do twenty customer interviews. Callan [0:17:45]: And the bit fastest way you can do that, go to a conference. Callan [0:17:47]: The fastest way I've personally found to pressure test the problem statement in just the the quick pitch. Callan [0:17:55]: Nothing. Callan [0:17:55]: It's so easy to do that at conference? Callan [0:17:57]: Because you actually see... Callan [0:17:58]: Are they gl over? Callan [0:17:59]: Are they not care? Callan [0:18:00]: Are they just going to get a drink? Callan [0:18:01]: Or are they, like, oh, that's interesting. Callan [0:18:03]: Okay? Callan [0:18:04]: I'm curious. Callan [0:18:05]: Like, how do you do that? Callan [0:18:06]: And so we'll do that first and then start to lay out some of the variables that you mentioned? Callan [0:18:11]: What's to split personal lines to commercial lines or what's the split of admitted lines to non admitted lines. Callan [0:18:16]: Are they in a rural area they're in the city? Callan [0:18:18]: How many employees do they have, how many employees that they have on Linkedin just to get a feel for modern looking website versus non modern looking website, things like that. Callan [0:18:27]: And I totally agree you have to start there? Caleb [0:18:30]: I love that you touched on demographics, demographics. Caleb [0:18:32]: Psycho graphics, all those things matter? Caleb [0:18:34]: But I think the missing step a lot of texts don't do well, is excellent asking themselves like, okay. Caleb [0:18:41]: Why? Caleb [0:18:42]: Why does it matter that what's the connection between this? Caleb [0:18:46]: Our Ic has fifty to hundred employees. Caleb [0:18:49]: What is that matter? Caleb [0:18:50]: Why is that cat something in the agency that that we can solve? Caleb [0:18:54]: What is it about that employee count that matters? Callan [0:18:57]: Mh. Caleb [0:18:57]: Right? Caleb [0:18:57]: A lot of people just stop at apollo filters? Caleb [0:19:00]: And define that as our Ic. Callan [0:19:03]: Yes. Callan [0:19:03]: Well, I'm thinking more from a purely segmentation perspective. Callan [0:19:06]: Meaning, like, yeah. Callan [0:19:07]: Everything you're doing, that starts to... Callan [0:19:09]: Like, all of your key messages have to be based off of the actual why and that problem statement and what you're testing for those pitches. Callan [0:19:15]: Hundred percent your. Callan [0:19:16]: And it's kinda like, what are the five lies? Callan [0:19:18]: What is the actual root of this issue and that gets back to? Callan [0:19:22]: You said, like, you gotta do customer interviews. Callan [0:19:24]: If you're skipping that step, you were missing out on so much Because they will tell you exactly whatever that pitch needs to be. Callan [0:19:31]: Almost to the t. Callan [0:19:33]: And they'll tell you... Callan [0:19:34]: This doesn't even make any sense why I... Callan [0:19:36]: Like, that... Callan [0:19:36]: You you guys hear... Callan [0:19:37]: I don't know. Callan [0:19:38]: Maybe you're doing something that I don't understand, but, like, this this won't work For whatever, like, you'll get that exact information. Callan [0:19:45]: So fast forwarding a little bit, you segment of that agency, You starting to call, what does that first call look like? Caleb [0:19:50]: Join up with the hypothesis. Caleb [0:19:51]: Right? Caleb [0:19:52]: If you've done the problem statement work, that deep work, you should show up with hypothesis. Caleb [0:19:56]: Which lets them is the first opt in or opt out point. Caleb [0:20:01]: Right? Caleb [0:20:01]: Either they... Caleb [0:20:02]: It's great to find out then and there that they either identify or not with this thing that you've crafted with very specific boundary conditions in mind. Callan [0:20:12]: Distinct meaning the webinar? Callan [0:20:13]: The problem statement because Caleb [0:20:15]: the problem statement should be reflected. Caleb [0:20:16]: The webinar should be crafted to reflect the key problem statement that you've identified. Callan [0:20:22]: So is that called, essentially, just like a a standard cold call with the problem statement and then the ask of of, coming onto the webinar? Callan [0:20:29]: Mh. Callan [0:20:29]: Okay. Callan [0:20:30]: So you've got the cold call. Callan [0:20:31]: You've called in, they're interested in the webinar? Callan [0:20:35]: What does that process look like now? Callan [0:20:36]: Is it enrolled in the webinar? Callan [0:20:38]: Are you doing any nurture campaigns as they leading up to that? Callan [0:20:40]: Are you offering a one on one in addition to the webinar or what does that look like? Caleb [0:20:46]: Yeah. Caleb [0:20:46]: Always let them opt in to a more intimate version of of discovery. Caleb [0:20:51]: So Callan [0:20:53]: all Caleb [0:20:53]: of the follow ups should offer a one to one. Caleb [0:20:55]: Your... Caleb [0:20:55]: First thing I do is actually I try to to actually get them move to text. Caleb [0:21:00]: Right? Caleb [0:21:00]: I think this is a big missed opportunity. Caleb [0:21:02]: Once they've already opt in, say, like, it something as simple as, hey. Caleb [0:21:07]: If you have any questions in the meantime. Caleb [0:21:08]: Like, sometimes it's just easier to shoot me a text or rep reply reply here through email. Caleb [0:21:12]: Like, you'd be surprised how many people are willing to text you. Callan [0:21:16]: Well, is you gonna say, what is that exact ass? Callan [0:21:18]: I like that. Callan [0:21:19]: Can you repeat that again about the... Callan [0:21:20]: I think this is a great one? Callan [0:21:21]: In Webinar argue... Callan [0:21:23]: By that's, like, agencies any for any types of sales whatsoever is it's night and day easier. Callan [0:21:29]: So what exactly are you saying? Callan [0:21:31]: Like, if... Callan [0:21:31]: If I'm an agent on that call, how are you asking that? Caleb [0:21:34]: On the call. Caleb [0:21:34]: I'm I'm usually doing this on the... Caleb [0:21:35]: On the the follow email? Callan [0:21:38]: No reply with their Caleb [0:21:39]: phone number? Caleb [0:21:39]: Yeah. Caleb [0:21:39]: Yeah. Caleb [0:21:40]: I, it text all the time from agencies companies. Caleb [0:21:43]: Yeah. Callan [0:21:44]: Are you asking them to send you their... Callan [0:21:47]: Your phone number right there? Caleb [0:21:48]: No. Caleb [0:21:48]: So this is what the email like, Usually trying to provide something of value. Caleb [0:21:52]: Like, hey. Caleb [0:21:53]: Something that piqued my interest or I thought about them specifically. Caleb [0:21:56]: I'll, email them with the webinar information and a little reminder, hey, we... Caleb [0:22:01]: You mentioned this thing. Caleb [0:22:02]: I thought you might be interested in this, give them a little value and then say, sometimes it's just easier to apply or move this to text. Caleb [0:22:11]: Totally fine. Caleb [0:22:12]: I'm totally I'm totally cool with that. Caleb [0:22:13]: If you are. Caleb [0:22:14]: Here's my... Caleb [0:22:14]: Here's my cell. Caleb [0:22:15]: Feel free to text me with any questions or anything regarding this or worst case, you can always, you know, shoot me an email here. Callan [0:22:23]: Okay. Callan [0:22:23]: Great. Callan [0:22:23]: So they're sending the first text. Caleb [0:22:25]: Yeah Callan [0:22:26]: Not you... Callan [0:22:26]: You're not sending the first tax. Callan [0:22:27]: No. Callan [0:22:27]: Why do you do it that way? Caleb [0:22:30]: It just feels more appropriate. Caleb [0:22:32]: Whenever I can pull instead of push I try to pull. Callan [0:22:36]: Interesting. Callan [0:22:36]: There's no wrong way to do it. Callan [0:22:38]: I'm usually the opposite. Callan [0:22:39]: I'm usually, like, if if I see their phone number in there, I'm usually gonna jump straight to text them first. Callan [0:22:46]: They probably appreciate it more while you're doing it for sure, I think if Caleb [0:22:51]: I'm honest, it's because I've gotten so many automated text right now, it's... Caleb [0:22:55]: We're living in a world that we're trying to decipher, we still have an emphasis on real, and we're trying to decipher what is real and was not. Caleb [0:23:02]: So if if they initiate the text. Caleb [0:23:04]: There's no question that this is the real deal. Callan [0:23:07]: Yeah. Callan [0:23:07]: Totally fair point. Callan [0:23:08]: Okay. Callan [0:23:08]: So is there any marketing nurturing campaigns that are going to try to make sure that the... Callan [0:23:13]: That... Callan [0:23:14]: So, like, whether that's email campaigns or whatever that I'm assuming it just be email campaigns. Callan [0:23:18]: To try to increase the attendance rate of that webinar? Callan [0:23:22]: A few sequences in the past. Caleb [0:23:25]: I I... Caleb [0:23:25]: I'm a firm believer in once you've had that call once you've letting the rep own the communication. Caleb [0:23:31]: Right? Caleb [0:23:32]: When you say marketing, I'm envisioning this separate entity out there that's using branded slick and trying to get the brand out there in front of them and and as an assistant to the sales rep. Caleb [0:23:44]: Am I reading into that wrong? Callan [0:23:46]: No. Callan [0:23:46]: I wouldn't say no. Callan [0:23:47]: No. Callan [0:23:47]: No in the fact that, yes. Callan [0:23:49]: I am talking about the centralized coming from Hubspot or and not Hubspot sequences, but from the actual Hubspot marketing platform, or part out or whatever that might be, but not necessarily that it has to be, like, Html based in be branded, but it could also be sending it from the rep on their behalf. Callan [0:24:09]: I'm only thinking let's use agencies them as an example. Callan [0:24:12]: Right? Callan [0:24:13]: You guys were doing pretty big numbers in the and the calls that you were making. Callan [0:24:16]: Are the reps sending all of those emails leading up to those that are registered or does marketing play a role in sending out any type of marketing communication to increase odds that that person's gonna show. Caleb [0:24:31]: Marketing did a really good job of presenting the the brand personality, the product philosophy, our placed in the market. Caleb [0:24:38]: Like, that was the drum that they were banging, and I think that's the drum that marketing should bang. Caleb [0:24:42]: We were building individual sequences, individual, crafting individual emails in the personality of the rep that owned that one on one communication? Caleb [0:24:51]: Emails, I think should be getting more and more noisy, I think it should be owned by the the rep it should be the the reps personality, and the rep owning that email communication. Callan [0:25:02]: So is that rep doing those emails leading up to the webinar Mh. Callan [0:25:07]: Ian doing cold calls? Caleb [0:25:10]: Mh. Callan [0:25:10]: And so how it... Callan [0:25:11]: How would you prioritize it two of them? Callan [0:25:12]: What would you put ahead of? Callan [0:25:13]: Or is it when... Callan [0:25:14]: Yeah. Callan [0:25:15]: I guess, are you prioritizing those emails to the agents that have signed up in order to get make sure that they attend or are you prioritizing new cold calls to fill that up with as many people as possible? Caleb [0:25:27]: I think this is where time blocking comes in. Caleb [0:25:29]: I think I think and. Caleb [0:25:30]: Right? Caleb [0:25:30]: Because one is building at bats. Caleb [0:25:32]: You'll find out really quick that if that's dried up, You're, like, you're you'll really wish that you hadn't and let that dry up. Caleb [0:25:38]: So same thing. Caleb [0:25:39]: If you're getting all these at bats, these things are gold, you wanna nurture them. Caleb [0:25:43]: Yep. Caleb [0:25:44]: It's and. Caleb [0:25:44]: And so it's just cup reps time blocks. Caleb [0:25:47]: So like, they actually can do both effectively. Callan [0:25:50]: Okay. Callan [0:25:50]: So you've got these nurturing emails that are that are going out from the rep to increase the attendance, the attendance rate at the actual. Callan [0:26:00]: You're... Callan [0:26:00]: They're still making cold calls The day of the webinar? Callan [0:26:03]: Who does the webinar? Callan [0:26:04]: What does that look like? Callan [0:26:05]: What does the process look like when the webinar ends? Callan [0:26:08]: What is it? Callan [0:26:09]: What is the content of that webinar? Callan [0:26:10]: Mh. Callan [0:26:10]: Is that a demo? Callan [0:26:11]: Is that just a... Callan [0:26:12]: Is this the pure sales webinar where you're doing a demo and maybe talking a little bit about your philosophy? Callan [0:26:18]: Or is this... Callan [0:26:20]: Because these are... Caleb [0:26:20]: If I remember Correctly, Callan [0:26:21]: these are group demos. Callan [0:26:22]: But or is this more of a educational webinar? Callan [0:26:25]: Or is that a separate thing? Caleb [0:26:28]: I don't think there are any there aren't are any hard rules here. Caleb [0:26:30]: I'm very opinionated about this next part, but the type of webinar can vary as long as we... Caleb [0:26:35]: As long as we file, follow the right story arc. Caleb [0:26:37]: A demo can be involved, you may not have a demo. Caleb [0:26:40]: Depending on your product, your service, whatever whatever it is. Caleb [0:26:43]: Just agencies we did a bunch of group demos. Caleb [0:26:45]: Right? Caleb [0:26:45]: We segmented properly by Ams segmentation, we've sorted our persona as appropriately. Callan [0:26:52]: So if they had... Callan [0:26:52]: If they on Vi, they would go here. Callan [0:26:54]: If they were on applied, they would take this demo their personal lines heavy, they would go here commercial lines whatever that might be. Callan [0:27:00]: Right. Caleb [0:27:01]: Yeah. Caleb [0:27:01]: Yeah. Caleb [0:27:01]: Because it really mattered. Caleb [0:27:02]: Right? Caleb [0:27:03]: For our product it really matters. Caleb [0:27:04]: Absolutely. Caleb [0:27:04]: So first and foremost, the subject matter expert should be hosting the webinar, the. Caleb [0:27:10]: The group experience. Caleb [0:27:11]: That can be the rep individual rep, like, it's better when this person that they've opted into. Caleb [0:27:18]: They've they've developed. Caleb [0:27:19]: The most affinity that they have for your... Caleb [0:27:21]: Anybody in your company, they've they've developed it with that rep. Caleb [0:27:24]: It's best when you can make that rep that allowed them the raise her hand. Caleb [0:27:29]: Also, they're the subject matter expert. Callan [0:27:32]: So are they just scheduling a bunch for their own group demo? Callan [0:27:34]: How that work? Callan [0:27:36]: If it's the rep that's actually delivering the demo? Caleb [0:27:39]: They can. Caleb [0:27:39]: Some... Caleb [0:27:39]: We have reps that were hunting for themselves. Caleb [0:27:41]: We had reps that were filling the traditional Bd role. Caleb [0:27:44]: Right. Caleb [0:27:45]: At Ascend was doing the hunting and gathering and the demoing and the presenting and the conferencing. Caleb [0:27:51]: Yeah. Caleb [0:27:51]: So Yep. Caleb [0:27:52]: It depends on your unit economics. Caleb [0:27:54]: It depends on what type of Bd support you have or not? Caleb [0:27:59]: I don't think there's any downside into getting everybody in the sales staff d. Caleb [0:28:06]: The intimacy with the customer problem to be able to actually perform pretty well on that webinar It'll help them reverse engineer great prospecting calls. Callan [0:28:17]: Okay. Callan [0:28:17]: So you got them on the the webinar. Callan [0:28:19]: You got a subject matter expert. Callan [0:28:20]: Let's just use the group demos example. Callan [0:28:22]: So you've... Callan [0:28:22]: They they know they're going into it to see a demo. Callan [0:28:24]: This is essentially a sales call more or less. Callan [0:28:27]: They do the demo. Callan [0:28:28]: What is that... Callan [0:28:29]: What is the... Callan [0:28:30]: After the demo is rep? Callan [0:28:31]: Because I'm assuming they're going through some sort of light deck and then going into the actual demo itself. Callan [0:28:37]: And it's a very scripted demo. Callan [0:28:40]: Do you open it up for Q and a? Callan [0:28:42]: Do you open it up for people to say, hey, I wanna see this part? Callan [0:28:45]: What does that Caleb [0:28:46]: look like? Caleb [0:28:46]: I have evolved a bit on this. Caleb [0:28:49]: Okay? Caleb [0:28:49]: There's. Caleb [0:28:50]: I think the only thing only constant in sales is that stuff stops working? Callan [0:28:56]: Unless it's Dale Carnegie. Callan [0:28:56]: Yeah. Callan [0:28:58]: Right. Callan [0:28:59]: And go on. Caleb [0:29:00]: Right. Caleb [0:29:00]: So in a group environment, I think you have to... Caleb [0:29:03]: You you mentioned Scripted. Caleb [0:29:04]: I think you have to have it little moments scripted, I think anybody that thinks are going into a product tour Like, we need to talk. Caleb [0:29:10]: It's it's gonna be no bueno now. Caleb [0:29:12]: Nobody wants a full product tour. Caleb [0:29:14]: Nobody cares that much about your product. Caleb [0:29:15]: So I'm pretty convicted in... Caleb [0:29:18]: There being a a pretty set character arc. Caleb [0:29:21]: Let's call it. Caleb [0:29:22]: So if people are coming into a webinar. Caleb [0:29:24]: They're coming... Caleb [0:29:24]: Because I've identified themselves in as a distressed in some way. Caleb [0:29:29]: All you've got right now is you've got a pretty good hook in the form of your webinar title, You've you've you've pitched the webinar, thesis pretty well, and they've identified with it. Caleb [0:29:38]: And so they're coming in and they've identified that they have a current state that they don't like. Caleb [0:29:42]: But that's kinda it. Caleb [0:29:44]: That's where we're at. Caleb [0:29:44]: So they're also coming to the webinar and, like, understanding that they have a little bit of their autonomy still. Caleb [0:29:52]: They're not on a one on one call. Caleb [0:29:53]: They're not they're not committing to kinda laying it all bear for one person. Caleb [0:29:57]: They can kinda hide in numbers. Caleb [0:29:59]: And so, like, they're part of twelve people, fifteen people, twenty people that also identify this way. Caleb [0:30:03]: They can learn together. Caleb [0:30:05]: They... Caleb [0:30:05]: There's confidence that comes in a group setting. Caleb [0:30:08]: So the first step is to actually frame and validate their current state. Caleb [0:30:14]: Make them say, like, that's right. Caleb [0:30:16]: Make them basically valid in their in their position that... Caleb [0:30:19]: That's why I... Caleb [0:30:20]: Okay. Caleb [0:30:21]: I thought that this was what this was about, what this was gonna solve, and I was right. Caleb [0:30:25]: I should be here. Caleb [0:30:26]: The first part of your even if it's on it. Caleb [0:30:28]: If it's a demo whatever. Caleb [0:30:29]: It needs to serve that function. Caleb [0:30:31]: I'm I thought this was what it was, and I'm right. Caleb [0:30:34]: Because if it's thirty minutes an hour, my job in that group experience is to take one, five, twenty people, from being the person in distress to being their the hero. Caleb [0:30:47]: Like, that's my job. Caleb [0:30:48]: If if we're thinking about what's the job to be done in the webinar. Caleb [0:30:51]: That's the job to be done. Caleb [0:30:52]: I'm trying to take them from being the person in distress to them identifying themselves as as an enabled hero to tackle this problem. Caleb [0:30:59]: So the next thing that people get really, really, really wrong is picking on daily again. Caleb [0:31:06]: Because people are now becoming problem sellers. Caleb [0:31:08]: Right? Caleb [0:31:09]: Sell the problem be interested in the problem. Caleb [0:31:11]: We're doing a really, really counterproductive thing. Caleb [0:31:14]: And in our demos and our group webinars, we're trying to... Caleb [0:31:17]: We're trying to make this thing that they're fighting this dragon, we're trying to make it seems like super scary. Caleb [0:31:23]: And we're thinking, like, if we make this dragon super scary, they'll need us more, and they'll be urgent. Caleb [0:31:29]: They'll don't wanna pull the trigger. Caleb [0:31:31]: So what I've been finding and this has been super interesting to me is actually the best sellers Actually do the opposite. Caleb [0:31:38]: They they turn that dragon into a little lizard. Caleb [0:31:40]: It's not so bad. Caleb [0:31:41]: It's very sur insurmountable. Caleb [0:31:42]: This is not an insurmountable problem. Caleb [0:31:44]: We we can fix this, guys. Caleb [0:31:45]: You do have a problem. Caleb [0:31:46]: I've already validated it. Caleb [0:31:47]: Yes. Caleb [0:31:48]: This is how you feel you're totally valid. Caleb [0:31:49]: The next step is actually might seem bad. Caleb [0:31:52]: You're totally valid in how you feel. Caleb [0:31:53]: It's not that bad. Caleb [0:31:54]: We can fix it. Caleb [0:31:54]: Right? Caleb [0:31:55]: Making them feel empowered that. Caleb [0:31:56]: Alright. Caleb [0:31:57]: We're... Caleb [0:31:57]: We're actually gonna get to the bottom bottom of this here. Caleb [0:31:59]: It's something you can fix. Caleb [0:32:00]: Third thing. Caleb [0:32:02]: Important to then give them the sword Right? Caleb [0:32:06]: Here's the problem Most products companies. Caleb [0:32:08]: The instinct is to make yourself the hero. Caleb [0:32:12]: Make the company hero. Caleb [0:32:13]: Right? Caleb [0:32:14]: And then... Caleb [0:32:14]: So there's this weird dichotomy. Caleb [0:32:16]: Like, we're trying to make people feel bad in demos all the time, like, their fault and I need to save you. Caleb [0:32:22]: But if for make them feel empowered, we can give them a way to fix it on their own if you're following me. Callan [0:32:28]: Well, hold. Callan [0:32:29]: Let me let me pause a minute. Callan [0:32:30]: Yes and no. Callan [0:32:31]: I mean a lot of this is somewhat of the story brand framework. Callan [0:32:33]: But what I'm curious about is on a group demo. Callan [0:32:36]: Yeah. Callan [0:32:37]: I mean, I think that's an interesting way of framing it as far as, like, let's go into the problem validate it. Callan [0:32:41]: Very... Callan [0:32:42]: Like, that's very challenger sale. Callan [0:32:43]: Right? Callan [0:32:43]: Like, and then don't just be believe the pain the entire time. Callan [0:32:46]: Size up the pain. Callan [0:32:48]: Like acknowledge that this is a real pain. Callan [0:32:50]: We get that, and there's real consequences if you don't fix this pain. Callan [0:32:53]: Yeah. Callan [0:32:53]: But then it's said that's where kind of the story brand comes and be the guide that shows them why this pain is a pain, but it it's actually a very sol pain. Callan [0:33:02]: And we're gonna show you by the end of this and then make the the customer the hero of the journey. Callan [0:33:06]: Right? Callan [0:33:07]: As opposed to... Callan [0:33:07]: We're not the heroes. Callan [0:33:08]: We're the guides. Callan [0:33:09]: They're the heroes of this story. Callan [0:33:11]: We're just guiding them to get to that end resolve. Callan [0:33:13]: Is that right? Callan [0:33:13]: Yep. Callan [0:33:14]: So that makes sense to me a lot on a... Callan [0:33:16]: Like, an educational content webinar on a group demo. Callan [0:33:19]: How are you doing that without going through the product? Callan [0:33:21]: Or you're not saying that? Callan [0:33:22]: You're saying you are going through that product? Caleb [0:33:25]: No. Caleb [0:33:25]: Yeah. Caleb [0:33:25]: You go through the product, but there's a difference between highly curated moments in the product? Caleb [0:33:30]: And what usually happens in demos. Caleb [0:33:32]: And that is... Caleb [0:33:33]: Let me tell you. Caleb [0:33:35]: This thing was built. Caleb [0:33:35]: Let me tell you the the code it's on. Caleb [0:33:37]: Let me tell you all this stuff because you care. Caleb [0:33:39]: You totally care. Caleb [0:33:40]: No. Caleb [0:33:40]: It's... Caleb [0:33:40]: I'm gonna pick four moments at most. Caleb [0:33:43]: But I can tie to that problem that we had already articulated at the beginning I validated. Caleb [0:33:47]: Like, I'm directing a movie here with very specific scenes. Caleb [0:33:51]: And when I say give them their own sword, it's actually counterintuitive, but it's really really helpful, and it creates more and more trust. Caleb [0:33:58]: If you can give them a way to solve it on their own, like, it might be spreadsheets. Caleb [0:34:03]: Right? Caleb [0:34:04]: Show them the inefficient way. Caleb [0:34:05]: Mh. Caleb [0:34:06]: I got. Caleb [0:34:06]: It might be spreadsheets. Caleb [0:34:07]: We've we figured it out so much so that here's way for you to handle on. Caleb [0:34:10]: You've actually got a tool that can... Caleb [0:34:12]: You've got your own sword it can work okay. Caleb [0:34:14]: We are their guide to the extent they're, like, we're helping them even if it's without our product. Caleb [0:34:18]: Right. Caleb [0:34:19]: And so that's why I mean by giving them their own sort. Callan [0:34:22]: Yeah. Caleb [0:34:22]: And yes. Caleb [0:34:22]: I am doing highly curated glimpse isn't into the product. Callan [0:34:27]: Oh, I'm I'm a firm believer of that. Callan [0:34:28]: I think most of my content strategy is based around that. Callan [0:34:31]: This is what you could do. Callan [0:34:33]: You could do this on your own, didn't... Callan [0:34:34]: Because the reality is most people won't. Callan [0:34:36]: If they do great. Callan [0:34:37]: If you're in that percentage debt, we'll do that in your own in the pain is not big enough for you to need the service or product that somebody offers, great doing it in your own, but most want somebody else to execute on there behalf. Callan [0:34:48]: If it makes sense. Caleb [0:34:50]: Yeah. Caleb [0:34:50]: Yeah. Caleb [0:34:50]: I forget the term, there's a psychological phenomenon that that is tied to the making the dragon a lizard thing. Caleb [0:34:57]: It's... Caleb [0:34:57]: Our brains really, really want to put things in compartments and containers in, like, make order out of chaos. Caleb [0:35:02]: And, like, that's the first step to doing that. Caleb [0:35:04]: Mh. Caleb [0:35:05]: Right? Caleb [0:35:05]: Where the demos come into play. Caleb [0:35:07]: It's important to show them scenarios were where they like imagine themselves winning and defeating the dragon. Caleb [0:35:13]: Right? Caleb [0:35:13]: And that's where those scenarios come into play. Caleb [0:35:16]: But it's really crucial to, like, really fight the urge to go go deep. Caleb [0:35:20]: Yeah. Caleb [0:35:21]: And I don't actually think you should deviate. Caleb [0:35:23]: I've learned from doing this wrong a couple times and, like, being super accommodating, it can derail a whole group demo from group webinar. Caleb [0:35:32]: If you're too accommodating if Colin asks. Caleb [0:35:35]: Hey. Caleb [0:35:35]: What about this? Caleb [0:35:36]: Can it do this? Caleb [0:35:37]: You betcha? Caleb [0:35:37]: Let's click into that? Caleb [0:35:39]: You've made one friend. Caleb [0:35:40]: You've created twenty enemies potentially. Callan [0:35:43]: Or you just turned them out. Callan [0:35:44]: People tune now. Callan [0:35:45]: It doesn't apply to them. Callan [0:35:46]: It's they don't like, totally. Caleb [0:35:47]: And and you lost them. Caleb [0:35:48]: That's an opportunity to have some sort of strategy to sip people off to one on one conversations. Caleb [0:35:55]: Yes, El can. Caleb [0:35:56]: Love to show you that later. Caleb [0:35:57]: Text me about that. Caleb [0:35:59]: This is another way to get them on text. Caleb [0:36:00]: You put your cell phone in the chat. Caleb [0:36:02]: And you say anybody else any specific questions? Caleb [0:36:05]: Any specific scenarios can't cover it today, But odds are, we can we can cover it. Caleb [0:36:09]: So text me. Caleb [0:36:09]: Well, text me a specific scenario What did you again? Caleb [0:36:12]: A great way to get into Text. Caleb [0:36:13]: Yeah. Callan [0:36:14]: What happens after that demo? Caleb [0:36:15]: You're sorting. Caleb [0:36:16]: You're sorting interest. Caleb [0:36:17]: Like, if you do it right. Caleb [0:36:19]: You've got some self selection into either try not to do another demo, try to just have a really, really strong offer with a with der risked free offer with free trial money back into whatever and let the next thing be an onboarding call where we can still you have built in discovery. Callan [0:36:37]: Yep. Callan [0:36:37]: Right. Callan [0:36:37]: So that's first. Callan [0:36:38]: What do you do with the bucket that attended, but didn't take that path? Callan [0:36:42]: Call. Callan [0:36:43]: Immediately? Callan [0:36:44]: How fast? Caleb [0:36:47]: I don't have any rules on this. Caleb [0:36:48]: I haven't really... Caleb [0:36:49]: I don't I don't really have any conviction still too long. Callan [0:36:53]: So I I can do. Callan [0:36:54]: I haven't opinion on this. Callan [0:36:55]: K. Callan [0:36:55]: Immediately. Callan [0:36:56]: I want them still at their computer. Callan [0:36:58]: Yeah. Callan [0:36:58]: Like, absolutely right there. Callan [0:37:00]: Because nine times out a ten, they're probably ready to go. Callan [0:37:03]: But I hear you on many of them will just self select. Callan [0:37:07]: I'll put that up on the webinar, nine times at a ten, they'll just go. Callan [0:37:10]: They'll sign up right there while they're still on it. Callan [0:37:13]: And the second that gets off. Callan [0:37:14]: Get those leads, Team giving a Rev ops Rev ops pass them out to the reps and then call those and try to get those enrolled immediately. Callan [0:37:20]: That's when that iron is the hottest. Callan [0:37:22]: Now... Callan [0:37:23]: Okay. Callan [0:37:24]: What about that group that didn't attend? Caleb [0:37:27]: I think they should be just put into the same motion. Caleb [0:37:30]: They should be considered. Caleb [0:37:31]: They're still a contact. Caleb [0:37:31]: They're not they're not a lead yet. Callan [0:37:33]: What motion is this? Callan [0:37:34]: An agency Zoom when somebody didn't attend, what you guys do? Caleb [0:37:37]: We would still call them, like, there seems to be some discovery discrepancy. Caleb [0:37:40]: Right? Caleb [0:37:41]: Yeah. Caleb [0:37:41]: So figure out, you know, what's the delta between? Caleb [0:37:44]: They were interested, and they didn't vote with their eyeballs. Caleb [0:37:48]: Right. Callan [0:37:49]: So they go into a sequence of red sister didn't attend. Callan [0:37:52]: You're calling them. Callan [0:37:54]: Is the goal of that to get them on the next webinar or is the goal of that to then just skip... Callan [0:37:59]: Like, they didn't attend the webinar? Callan [0:38:00]: We're just going into discovery and trying to do a demo one on one. Caleb [0:38:04]: If you've done your deep work appropriately. Caleb [0:38:06]: You should have a lot of valuable giveaways to support your value prop your position the market, So it should be heavy gifts, heavy? Callan [0:38:17]: Can you give some examples of that? Caleb [0:38:18]: Yeah. Caleb [0:38:18]: So with LAUNCH we do, the whole point of it is emphasizing assessment based selling, filling the gap between getting that frontline information between the in the four walls of the business and actually making them feel unique. Caleb [0:38:29]: And so a giveaway that I have a, like, a driver map diagram. Caleb [0:38:34]: That has really helped some reps digital visualize, actually tying frontline operations of a business to actual their premium being affected. Caleb [0:38:44]: Mh. Caleb [0:38:44]: Right? Caleb [0:38:44]: And so that's one of my favorite giveaways that gets the best feedback. Caleb [0:38:48]: I given them that. Caleb [0:38:49]: It's a it's a mir board right now and it's interactive and give them that. Caleb [0:38:52]: So you should have things like that that you've thought through that can actually really impact your end user. Callan [0:38:58]: And what is the ask when you send that? Callan [0:39:00]: Here Caleb [0:39:00]: you go. Callan [0:39:01]: Here you goes not a ask? Caleb [0:39:03]: Exactly. Callan [0:39:04]: So why why are you not asking for something on that. Caleb [0:39:06]: Asked out, man. Caleb [0:39:07]: So this Callan [0:39:08]: is somebody that registered but didn't attend and you're saying, hey. Callan [0:39:12]: Sorry we missed you on the webinar. Callan [0:39:13]: Wanted to make sure that you had this feel free to give us a call what whatever you chance. Callan [0:39:18]: Whenever you get a chance. Caleb [0:39:20]: Hey. Caleb [0:39:20]: Sorry we missed in the webinar. Caleb [0:39:21]: This has been super helpful to people in the past. Caleb [0:39:24]: I hope you get a lot out of it. Caleb [0:39:25]: Right? Callan [0:39:26]: When you call them again? Caleb [0:39:28]: Probably three days later if they're that early in the sequence. Callan [0:39:30]: Okay. Callan [0:39:30]: Yeah. Callan [0:39:31]: So this isn't... Callan [0:39:31]: You're not just... Callan [0:39:32]: This is just the first step in the sequence. Callan [0:39:34]: Yeah. Caleb [0:39:35]: Man. Caleb [0:39:35]: I think another thing that I honestly butt heads with other sales leaders on is, like, I think there's way too much chest move stuffing. Caleb [0:39:42]: Everyone's trying to, like, do five different chest moves in one email and trying to win a deal in a voice mail and so if there's so much pressure in each touch point, you're actually gotta ruin the efficacy of that touch point because you're gonna gonna get bloated. Caleb [0:39:58]: Right? Callan [0:40:00]: Well, you know and I guess, one of the things I wanna do is I know we've went pretty deep on this is why would somebody not do this? Callan [0:40:06]: Why would somebody not... Callan [0:40:07]: Do... Callan [0:40:07]: Why would somebody do an outside of you know, obviously, one on one is pretty effective, or maybe we could ask that question too is it doesn't make sense even if you have a higher Ac cv to do group demos. Callan [0:40:18]: But why would somebody not do this? Caleb [0:40:21]: The only reason I can come up with is if you haven't validated your problem statement yet? Caleb [0:40:24]: And you don't have enough of a point of view. Caleb [0:40:27]: I would say it's too early. Caleb [0:40:28]: You should be able to absolutely run circles around the problem. Caleb [0:40:32]: You should come up with a super convicted point of view Callan [0:40:36]: on the... Callan [0:40:36]: Do one to ones until that point because you can get more information Is that what you're saying? Caleb [0:40:40]: Yep. Callan [0:40:40]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:40]: That makes sense. Callan [0:40:41]: I can see that. Caleb [0:40:42]: I do wanna be clear. Caleb [0:40:43]: In this motion, the whole point of getting somebody on a text. Caleb [0:40:45]: We're trying to get from the first email follow up after that first call, we're trying to get to more and more intimate with the prospect. Caleb [0:40:54]: It's to let them opt into something very non commit, but it's letting them vote that they're interested. Caleb [0:41:00]: Right. Caleb [0:41:00]: The webinar. Caleb [0:41:01]: I'm still trying to... Caleb [0:41:03]: The webinar might be in three weeks. Caleb [0:41:05]: We might really connect And in the follow up, and in that process, we might be getting on two, three different calls, one on one before that webinar even shows up, it's just something to... Caleb [0:41:18]: It doesn't mean that we have to hold off on pursuing that prospect. Caleb [0:41:22]: Just because they committed to a webinar if that makes sense? Callan [0:41:25]: It make sense. Callan [0:41:26]: When does that become cost prohibitive? Callan [0:41:27]: Meaning, if you've only got one sales rep, are you trying to do as many one on ones as possible even if they've already signed up for that webinar? Callan [0:41:35]: One on one communication. Caleb [0:41:38]: Right? Caleb [0:41:38]: But yeah. Caleb [0:41:39]: If it's s... Caleb [0:41:40]: If it's... Caleb [0:41:40]: It's an Ac constraint. Caleb [0:41:42]: Yeah. Caleb [0:41:42]: Either have self service. Caleb [0:41:43]: And so what you're telling them is they want a short circuit this and go to onboarding and your offer is really compelling where it's been totally der risked. Caleb [0:41:52]: Like, they might sign up on their own. Caleb [0:41:53]: And go through onboarding before the webinar even occurs. Caleb [0:41:57]: Right? Caleb [0:41:57]: If you have an Ac that you don't mind doing a one on one demo and getting into the intimate path, build in outlets in your process and your sequence in your outreach, your follow up that can invite them down the short circuit. Callan [0:42:14]: Yeah. Callan [0:42:14]: Yeah. Caleb [0:42:15]: Right. Caleb [0:42:15]: Yep. Caleb [0:42:15]: It can be and. Caleb [0:42:16]: It doesn't have to be what I hear a lot, the argument against this is that... Caleb [0:42:21]: Well, if they're answering, why not push for, like, the highest conversion. Caleb [0:42:27]: Like, you can get? Caleb [0:42:27]: Like, like glove. Caleb [0:42:28]: Yeah. Callan [0:42:29]: Yeah. Caleb [0:42:29]: Yeah. Caleb [0:42:29]: Why not do that? Caleb [0:42:30]: And this is high leverage your building trust because... Caleb [0:42:35]: What it's telling folks is, like, we've been there done that. Caleb [0:42:37]: We've essentially solved this problem to the extent that, like, we've created this event around it. Caleb [0:42:42]: Other people are coming. Caleb [0:42:44]: It's a it's a big enough problem that it appeals to somebody other than you. Caleb [0:42:47]: Mh. Caleb [0:42:47]: It's a trust building exercise along with an educational that. Callan [0:42:52]: Yeah. Callan [0:42:52]: I know. Callan [0:42:53]: I I see the purpose. Caleb [0:42:56]: You Callan [0:42:56]: gotta figure out what works best, But like, with somebody especially if somebody's got limited resources. Callan [0:43:00]: I mean, you could fire up a monster connector or connect and sell, ripped through an absolute ton of these. Callan [0:43:04]: For me, it's more... Callan [0:43:05]: You'll get more out of it because you're you're bring high volume of people to this as opposed to spending all of your time on a one on one, especially when you got limited resource, but I would argue just... Callan [0:43:18]: You know, you could always look at the the the financials and see if it makes sense. Callan [0:43:21]: So... Caleb [0:43:22]: Yeah. Caleb [0:43:22]: One on one until you figure it out you know, what's compelling. Caleb [0:43:24]: You've got a validated problem statement. Caleb [0:43:26]: Now what gets really fun is the webinar topics, the group demo topics can also can maybe test that stuff who's showing up to this topic who's showing up to that topic. Caleb [0:43:35]: Oh, a lot of people signed up. Caleb [0:43:37]: No one showed up to this one. Caleb [0:43:38]: What's going on here. Caleb [0:43:39]: So there's a lot of stuff that you can ab test. Callan [0:43:42]: Totally too. Callan [0:43:42]: K. Callan [0:43:43]: Last question I have for you is if you were starting these... Callan [0:43:46]: Let's just use agency Zoom an example. Callan [0:43:48]: If you were starting those from scratch now there, knowing what you know now, what is one thing that you would have done differently? Caleb [0:43:56]: We did everything perfectly? Caleb [0:43:56]: Is that nothing? Callan [0:43:58]: That's see. Callan [0:43:58]: That was the answer I was looking for you. Callan [0:43:59]: For sure. Caleb [0:44:01]: I mean, other than, like, knowing that we had something and throwing more fuel in the fire. Caleb [0:44:04]: Always kick myself for that. Callan [0:44:06]: What does that mean? Caleb [0:44:07]: Just adding adding more reps more leverage trying to get further faster, You know, because we... Caleb [0:44:13]: Was a pretty cool moment. Caleb [0:44:14]: We had kinda captured the attention of the market and in hindsight I think we we could have pushed harder. Callan [0:44:19]: Well, no. Callan [0:44:20]: I think that's a great answer. Callan [0:44:21]: So what I'm hearing you say is, you know, if you're out here, you're doing this, and you're seeing pretty good conversions, and you're seeing good... Callan [0:44:27]: The amount of people that you're getting to these demos. Callan [0:44:29]: And it's working and you're keeping those clients put fuel on that fire. Callan [0:44:32]: Like, you've got something go for it. Callan [0:44:33]: Is that essentially what you're saying? Callan [0:44:34]: Yeah. Callan [0:44:35]: I love that. Callan [0:44:36]: And it is one of those things where you sometimes do capture lightning in a bottle and you gotta take advantage of it because it does not last forever. Callan [0:44:42]: Yeah. Callan [0:44:43]: Doesn't love that. Callan [0:44:44]: Caleb, thanks for coming on today, Brother It's been excellent. Callan [0:44:46]: Thanks buddy. Callan [0:44:47]: I hope you enjoyed Caleb and nice conversation I love talking about his group demo process because I think it's a very easy tactic to test out if you've never done them before. Callan [0:45:03]: If you wanna learn more about Caleb, you could find him on Linkedin in the show notes. Callan [0:45:07]: Also, if you like this episode, you could find on Linkedin to let me know. Callan [0:45:12]: And if you really wanna support the show, subscribe to us on Youtube, give us a review an Apple podcast or Spotify. Callan [0:45:18]: Every time you do, it's very much appreciated. Callan [0:45:21]: Thank you all for listening and See you next week.