Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 1-3) (8/24/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: Tova Noel And Her Transcript From her Congressional Testimony (Part 1-3) (8/24/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. Now that we finished up with the Sarah
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Kellen transcript from her visit to Congress, we're going to
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: begin diving in to Tauven o Well's, who, of course,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: was one of the guards that was tasked with watching
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein on the night that he died. And the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: person asking the questions this time around is miss fair Abend.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: This is a transcribed interview of Toauvin O Well conducted
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: by the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform granted
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: to it pursuant a House Rule X. Accordingly, House Rule
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: X grants, the Committee brought jurisdiction for the Committee to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: conduct investigations of any matter at any time. This interview
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: was requested by Chairman James Comer as part of the
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Committee's investigation into the circumstances and subsequent investigations into the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: crimes of Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell, the operation of
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking rings, and waits for the federal government to
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: effectively combat them, the ways in which mister Epstein and
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: miss Maxwell sought to curry favor and exercise influence to
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: protect their illegal activities and potential violations of ethics rules
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: related to elected officials. Can the witness please state her
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: name and spell her last name for the record, Miss Noel,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Tova Noel no E l, Miss Farra Bend. I want
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: to thank Miss Noel for appearing here voluntarily today. My
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: name is Emily Feyer Bend and I'm counsel for Chairman
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: James Comer. Under the Committee on Oversight and Government Reforms rules,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: you're allowed to have council present to advise you during
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: this interview. Do you have counsel representing you in a
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: personal capacity present with you today, Miss Noel, yes, question.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Will counsel please identify themselves for the record. Mister Foy,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Jason Foy, Mister Brioche, Rudy Brioche, Miss Fierra Bend, thank
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: you and for the record. Starting with the Majority staff,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: can the additional staff members please introduce themselves with their name,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: title and affiliation. Billy Grant, Deputy Chief Council for Investigations
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Chairman Comber, Jack Emmer, Chief Council for Investigations for Chairman Comber.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Mister Ashworth, General Council for Chairman Comber. Ryan Giaketty, Chief
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Council for Chairman Comber. Will Harnice, Professional staff member for
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Chairman Comber. Hannah Cathay, Professional staff Member Chairman Comer. Ellison
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Tolan Council Chairman Comber, Brittany Brignac, Senior Council for Chairman Comber.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Ashley Vineyard, Deputy Staff Director for Chairman Comber. Mister Spector
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Peter Spector, Director of Oversight for Chairman Comer, Mallory Koeger,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Director of Operations and Chief Clerk for Chairman Comber. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: next group of names all redacted, so we're just going
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: to skip them, Miss Fierra Ben and thank you all.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: And I also see that we have a member that
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: just joined us. Would he please identify himself? Mister Walkinshaw,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Good morning. I am James Walkinshaw from Virginia's eleventh District. Question.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Miss Noel. Before we begin, I'd like to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: go over the ground rules for this transcribed interview. The
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: questioning will proceed in rounds. The majority will ask questions
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for up to an hour, and then the minority will
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: have the opportunity to ask questions for up to an
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: hour if they choose. To the extent. The members have
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: questions for the witness. They will be propounded during the
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: side's respective rounds. The clock will stop if you need
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: to confer with counsel, your council is speaking, and when
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: members of staff are speaking. During the opposing sides round
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: of questions, we'll alternate back and forth until there are
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: no more questions. Do you understand Miss Noel, yes, ma'am question?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: There is a court reporter taking down everything I say
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: and everything you say to make a written record of
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the For the record to be clear, please wait until
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the staffer questioning you finishes each question before you begin
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: your answer, and the staffer will wait until you finish
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: your response before proceeding to the next question. Further, to
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: ensure the court reporter can properly record this interview, please
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: speak clearly, concisely, and slowly. Also, the court reporter cannot
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: record nonverbal answers, such as nodding or shaking your head,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: so it's important that you answer each question with an
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: audible verbal answer. The exhibits may be entered into the record.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: Majority exhibits will be identified numerically, Minority exhibits will be
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: identified alphabetically. Do you understand Miss Noel, yes, ma'am? Question?
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: We want you to answer our questions in the most
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: complete and truthful manner possible, so we'll take our time.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: If you have any questions or do not fully understand question,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: please let us know. We will attempt to clarify, add
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: context to, or rephrase our questions. If we ask about
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: specific conversations or events in the past, and you're unable
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: to recall the exact words or details, you should testify
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: to the substance of those conversations or events to the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: best of your recollection. If you recall only a part
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: of a conversation or event, you should give us your
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: best recollection of those events or parts of conversations that
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: you recall. Do you understand Miss Nova, yes, ma'am question.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Although you're here voluntarily and you will not be sworn in,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you are required by law pursuing to Title eighteen of
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the US Code, Section one thousand and one to answer
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: questions from Congress truthfully. This also applies to questions posed
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: by Congressional staff in the interview. Do you understand Miss Noel, Yes,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: ma'am question. This includes both knowingly providing false testimony, but
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: also stating that you do not recall or remember something
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: when in fact you do do you understand? Furthermore, you
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: cannot tell half truths or exclude information necessary to make
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: your statements accurate. You're required to provide all information that
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: would make your response truthful. A deliberate failure to disclose
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: information can constitute a false statement. Do you understand, Miss Noel,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Yes ma'am question? Is there any reason that you are
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: unable to provide truthful testimony in today's interview? Noel, no
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: ma'am question. Please note that if you wish to assert
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: privilege over any statement today, that assertion must comply with
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: the rules of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: pursu into that Committee. Rule sixteen see one states for
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the charit to consider assertions of privilege over testimony or statements,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: witnesses or entities must clearly state the specific privilege being
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: asserted and the reason for the assertion honor before the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: scheduled date of testimony or appearance. Do you understand, Miss Noel,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: yes ma'am question. Ordinarily we take five men and a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: break at the end of each hour of questioning, but
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: if you need a longer break or a break before that,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: please let us know and we'll be happy to accommodate. However,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: to the extent that there is a pending question, we
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: would ask you finish answering the question before we take
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: the break. Do you understand miss Noel, Yes, ma'am question.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: Do you have any other questions before we begin? Noel, no,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: ma'am question. I understand you have an opening statement. Would
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: you like to read that now? Noel? Yes, Good morning.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Touvin Noel and I'm thirty seven years old.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: I appear here today voluntarily in response to the request
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: of the House Oversight Committee to answer questions about the
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: circumstances and subsequent investigation of the death of mister Jeffrey
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Epstein in twenty nineteen. Before I begin my opening statement,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I would like to take a moment to say that
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: my thoughts and prayers are with the victims of Jeffrey Epstein,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: and that my decision to voluntarily appear before this committee
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: in part is influenced by my desire to provide clarity
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: for the women harmed by mister Epstein and as co conspirators.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I emigrated from Antigua to the United States when I
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was twelve years old. At sixteen, I graduated high school
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. When I turned seventeen, I attempted to enlist
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: in the United States Army, but was unable to do so.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I was a minor and my mother refused to consent
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: to my enlistment. When I turned nineteen years old, I
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: enlisted and served in the Army National Guard for six years,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: receiving an honorable discharge in twenty fourteen. During my military service,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I was deployed during Operation and During Freedom, and stationed
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: in Kuwait. While serving our country, I became a US
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: citizen in two thousand and nine. During my final year
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: in the Army, I finished college level courses and earned
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: an Associate of Applied Science in Criminal Justice in twenty fourteen.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: I went back to school to earn a bachelor's degree
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: in criminal justice from John Jay College. In twenty seventeen,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: where I earned my bachelor's degree, I briefly worked at
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the United States Postal Service until the opportunity to work
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: as a Federal correctional officer for the Federal Bureau of Prisons.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I decided to pursue the role because it was in
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: the criminal justice field. On June twenty fourth, twenty eighteen,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I began working for the Federal Bureau of Prisons. I
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: was assigned to the MCC in Manhattan around March twenty nineteen.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: During my first year as a Federal correctional officer, I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: sustained an injury on the job. While on leave, I
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: missed training classes that were required to be assigned to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the shoe. These training courses were specifically related to the
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: duties and responsibilities to work in the shoe. When I
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: returned to work in June twenty nineteen, I was assigned
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: to work in the shoe, even though I never received
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the required specialized training. Prior to June twenty nineteen, I
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: never worked in the shoe. When I was assigned to
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: the shoe, I was instructed to sign a document that
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: indicated that I received the shoe training. When I advised
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: my supervisor that I did not receive the training, I
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: was told not to worry about it. I was instructed
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to sign so that the facility could pass its program review.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: When I was placed in the shoe, I was assigned
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to the four pm to midnight shift most of the time.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Due to understaffing issues, my colleagues and I were required
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: to work overtime on a regular basis to avoid being
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: mandated or work a second consecutive shift at midnight. I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: would often volunteer to work the eight am to four
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: pm shift and then work my regular shift from four
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: to midnight. When mister Epstein was lodged at the mcc
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: honor about July sixth, twenty nineteen, I did not know
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: who he was or anything about his past. I had
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: limited interactions with mister Epstein because he spent most of
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: each day downstairs in the attorney conference room. I wasn't
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: aware of the public's interest in mister Epstein until shortly
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: after the July twenty third, twenty nineteen incident, when he
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was placed on suicide watch. I wasn't working the shift
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: when the July twenty third incident occurred. On August ninth,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, I was scheduled to work by four pm
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: to midnight shift. Because I had a personal obligation that day,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I could not work the eight am to four pm shift.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: As a result, I was mandated to work the August tenth,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, midnight to eight am shift. It was also
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: my first time that I worked in the shoe with
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Officer Michael Thomas. It was my understanding that Officer Thomas
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: was working the midnight shift in addition to working his
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: assigned eight am to four pm shift on August ninth
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and tenth, twenty nineteen. I acknowledged with full candor that
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I did not execute the counts and the rounds properly.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: I admit that there were tasks that I failed to
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: complete which resulted in the improper execution and inaccurate documentation
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: of the counts and the rounds. The failure to execute
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: my duties and my responsibilities properly, and the submission of
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: it inaccurate documentation were not related to mister Epstein or
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: his death in any way. The inaccurate documentation were executed
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of each shift and were not done
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: to cover up my conduct or the conduct of my colleague.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: At the time, I considered what I was doing as
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the MCC way. I used the term mcc way because
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it's a phrase I heard countless times from multiple colleagues
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: while learning on the job prior to being assigned to
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the shoe. There's only one problem with this opening statement.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't match up with what we've heard from the
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: other interviews with the OIG. In other words, I was
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: trained in a way that suggested that the policy guidance
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: and operation protocols set forth and writing by the Federal
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Bureau of Prisons may be applied differently at MCC. My
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: conduct regarding documentation and execution of the counts and rounds
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: was based on what I observed experienced officers doing. Because
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I believe that video surveillance cameras inside MCC were working properly,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I was not at tempting to get away with something
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: that I believed to be a crime. It was a
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: surprise to me to learn months later that the video
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: surveillance system was not working properly. Again, my failure to
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: complete those duties were not because of mister Epstein. My
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: inadequate job performance was due to my inexperience, inadequate training,
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: and being overworked due to understaffing issues. The amount of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: overtime I was required to do resulted in my me
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: earning my full base salary an approximately six months time
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: on the job. As a result, my inadequate performance on
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the shoe on August nineth and tenth of twenty nineteen
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: was based on the dysfunctional culture at MCC, which was
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: well documented in multiple reports issued by the Department of Justice,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General. The same report that didn't
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: say that he tried to commit suicide three times. That
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: report got it. My responsibility was to conduct counts and
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: rounds was improperly executed because of severe understaffing, a lack
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: of adequate training, inadequate communication between management and frontline correctional officers,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: and other systemic failures. The systemic failures at the MCC
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: were documented by the Office of Inspector General and multiple
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: journalists long before the death of mister Epstein. The systemic
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: failures were communicated to the Federal Bureau of Prisons leadership
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: by the Correctional Officers union leadership long before of mister
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death. The only connection I have to the death
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of mister Epstein is that I happen to be mandated
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: for over time when he died. No, you were responsible
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: for making sure that that didn't happen. And you see
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: what they're doing here, right, everybody's coming in with the
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: same story. Let's blame the system so nobody is held
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: responsible and then we can all just get away with it.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: My life has drastically changed since August tenth, twenty nineteen.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Since that day, my life has been extremely difficult. This
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: situation has been one of the hardest things I've experienced
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: in my life. Well, if you didn't fall asleep. For
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: over two years, my freedom was in jeopardy. After the
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: case against me was dismissed in twenty twenty one, with
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: the unwavering support of my family, friends, co workers, my
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: attorney Jason Foy, and God, I thought that I would
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: be able to privately rebuild my life and my career. Instead,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: I have been consistently the subject of threats of my life,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, and outrageous rumors impacting my mental and physical health.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I have received threats from strangers. I have witnessed strangers
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: pontificate about whether I'm a murderer or that I'll end
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: up dead. I am consistently harassed at my residence, place
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: of employment, in emails and on the phone. Every few weeks,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: there's a new article based on a new theory with
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: little to no factual basis. When Congress passed the Epstein
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Files Transparency Act, my personal identification information was released to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the public without proper redaction of my debt of birth
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: and other personal information. Sorry, you're a government official. You
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: were being paid by the American tax How can we
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: hold anyone accountable if your name is redacted? And now
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: I've been asked to come before you to speak for
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the first time publicly and answer your questions related to
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: the investigation and death of mister Epstein. My goal today
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: is to be honestly. My goal today is to honestly
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: answer the committee's questions to the best of my recollection,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and finally put this behind me permanently. I would like
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: to ask the world to allow me to heal and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: move on with my life. I'm not a criminal. I
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: didn't conspire to cause mister Epstein's death. It's my desire
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: to be left alone after all of today's interview. Thank you.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: in the next episode we're gonna pick up where we
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna dive right back in to the
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Tovin Nowell transcript from her meeting with Congress. Question, Thank you,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I see we have another member of Congress. Would he
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: please identify himself for the record, mister submaranean representative Suja Submaranium,
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Virginia's tenth District. Question. Thank you all right. My time
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: reads ten eighteen and the majority of time will begin now. Question,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Miss Noel, thank you again for appearing here voluntarily today.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I'd like to start this interview by discussing more about
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: your background. I know you mentioned it in your opening statement.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: But where are you from originally? Answer? Antigua. Question Antigua,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: and when did you first move to New York? Answer?
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: I first moved to New York. About I first moved
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to New York, I want to say about twenty eleven.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Question what made you decide to move there? Answer? When
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I came to this country. I first lived in Pennsylvania,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: and after I graduated high school, I moved to New
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: York because I like New York better than Pennsylvania. Question.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I know you just did so, but can you, briefly,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: again for the record, walk us through your professional career. Answer.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I graduated high school at sixteen, went on to the military.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: When I turned nineteen, I gained an associate's degree in
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: criminal justice. I went on to gaining a bachelor's degree,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: also in criminal justice. And a minor in law. I
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: completed six years in military one torn Kuwait. I worked
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: for the United States Postal Service and then later on
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: went on to work for the Federal Bureau at Prisons
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: along with other employment. Question When did you begin working
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York? Answer June
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. Question you mentioned your job right before that
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: was working for the US Postal Service. Answer correct question. Okay.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: What years did you work at MCC? Answer twenty eighteen,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: June twenty eighteen to August tenth, twenty nineteen. Question how
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: was it that you ended up working at MCC? Answer
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: while working at the United States Postal Service, I received
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: a call from the MCC to gain employment there and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I accepted. Question so someone reached out to you answer
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: correct question okay? And why did you make that decision
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: to start working there? Answer because I had the background
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: in criminal justice and I wanted to pursue my degree
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: field question What was your first role or position at MCC?
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Answer correctional officer. Question were you ever assigned to more
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: than one role while at MCC? Answer no, ma'am. Question
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: can you describe what your responsibilities were in that role? Answer.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: My role as a correctional officer was to oversee inmates
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: to make sure that they're performing their deily tasks and
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the functions, and to make sure that they're accounted for.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Question and at what point were you assigned to the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Special Housing Unit? Answer? I was assigned to the Special
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Housing Unit in June of twenty nineteen. Question and for
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: the purposes of the record, I'm going to be referring
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to the Special Housing Unit as the shoe spelled shu.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Who first told you that you were going to be
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: assigned to the shoe? Answer? I don't recall exactly who
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: told me that I was going to be assigned to
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the shoe. Question Okay, were you ever told that why
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: you were being moved to the shoe? Answer? So, based
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: on seniority, you get to bid for your post, and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: the only post that was left was the shoe. Question
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: how did you feel about being moved to the shoe
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: at the time? Answer? I didn't want to go to
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: the shoe because I wasn't familiar with working the shoe.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: When I shadowed, I shadowed on regular housing units, not
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the shoe. Question Okay, Miss Fierra Bend, we have a
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: new staff member that's entered the room, Will he please
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: identify himself? Robert Edmondson, staff director, ranking member Garcia. Question
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: was working in the shoe considered a promotion to the
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: rest of the staff at MCC? Answer no, question why not?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Answer because it was a housing unit. Question Okay, so
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: there was a difference between a correctional officer working the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: shoe or any other area at the MCC. Answer correct.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Question Okay, what was your salary while working in the shoe?
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: You answer, I don't recall exactly. Question Okay, you worked
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: at MCC for over a year? Answer yes. Question was
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that your only job during that entire time? Or did
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: you have any additional sources of income outside of your salary?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Question additional sources of income? Was VA benefits? Question where
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: you're receiving those the entire time? Answer yes, mister Emmer.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Question in your opening you referenced was it a workplace injury?
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: When did that occur? Answer March question March of twenty eighteen.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Answer no. March of twenty nineteen question excuse me, thank you?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And then when did you return back to work? Answer
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: June of twenty nineteen. Question thank you, miss fire a
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: bend question, so We're going to discuss mister Epstein's death
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: and that night more specifically in a little bit, but
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I'd like to first get a better sense of the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: structure and the staffing roles at MCC. Answer. Okay, so
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: you never mentioned that you were first assigned in June
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to the Shoe. Can you describe how the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Shoe specifically differs from other units at MCC. Answer. So,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: for a regular housing unit, the inmates are let out
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and they can move around, whereas in the Shoe you're
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: locked in for twenty three hours and you're only out
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: for one hour, and it's a more secure area. The
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: only inmates that out would be like the orderlies. Question
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: what are those? Answer the order leads or inmates that
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: are considered to have privileges they're allowed to come out
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: to clean or the law library. Question. Okay, I know
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: you touched on this in your opening statement, but was
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: there any special training that you had to undergo in
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: order to be assigned to the Shoe? Answer? Yeah, question,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: and did you complete the special training that was required? Answer?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: No question? Why not answer because I was out with
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: an injury. Question? You mentioned, going back one question that
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: there were order leads in the shoe was mister Epstein
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: considered in orderly? Answer? No? Question why not? Answer? I
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: don't make the decision on who becomes an orderly? I
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question okay, do you know how it was decided?
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Answer of who becomes in orderly? No, I don't question Okay.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Back to the special training. Were you ever directed by
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: supervisors to say that you have completed the training when
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: you had not? Can you provide more details about what
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: happened there? Answer? When I came back from the injury,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I was told to report to the supervisor. When I
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: went to her, she asked me to sign the training
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: log to say that I completed the shoe training because
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: that was my assigned post at the time. So I
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: informed her that I did not complete the training. She
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: told me not to worry about it, just to sign
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: it because they need to pass program review. Question do
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you know if there were other correctional officers that she
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: told the same thing too? Answer? I don't know. Mister
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Foy may have a word real quick, they go off record,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: they go back on noel. Oh, and when she asked
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: me to sign, also asked me not to date it.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Question why was that? Answer? I guess because the date
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: where I was signing would have would have conflicted with
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the time that the training actually took place. Question and
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: who was the supervisor? What was the supervisor's name? Miss
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Noel Kimberly Shivers. Question do you have any idea whether
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: that was an ordinary practice by supervisors for the Shoe? Answer?
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question understanding that you did not complete
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: the training. Did you know what the training entailed? Answer no?
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Question okay, did you ever hear anybody talk about the training?
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Answer no? Question when you were in the Shoe, What
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: was the breakdown of your team? Answer like how many people? Question? Sure?
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: How many total people on staff in the Shoe? Answer
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: so the Shoe had myself and two other correctional officers
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: on the four pm to midnight shift. On the twelve
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: pm to eight am shift, it was two people. Question
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: did you have people working over you? Answer? Could you clarify?
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Answer sure? When you were on shift? Did you have
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: any supervisors that were also working at that time? Answer yes?
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Question okay, how many of those were there? Answer? The
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: supervisor would be considered the lieutenants. So there's about I
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: want to say four or five lieutenants, all not on
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: at the same time, but rotating their shifts. Question okay,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: so when you were on shift from four pm to
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: midnight shift, it would be one one other correctional officer
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and one to four lieutenants. Answers. No, So on shift
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: four to midnight it would be me and two correctional
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: officers in the shoe. In the building, it would be
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: the lieutenants downstairs in the lieutenant's office, about two or
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: three maybe on a shift. Question okay, going back to
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the training, were you ever told to complete the training
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: after you started working in the shoe? Answer for shoe training?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: No question, okay, so you signed and then began working
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: answer correct question okay, thank you. Did you do you
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: know if the number of the people on staff in
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the shoe was typical or were you guys understaffed? Answer?
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: We were understaffed. Question how understaffed? Would you say? Answer
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to be four people, not three, but it
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: was three. Question okay, what kind of problems or issues
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: did that cause the understaffing? Answer A lot of mandated overtime.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Question so the overtime hours were not voluntary? Answer? No question, okay,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: answer can I clarify that question? Sure? Answer? The overtime
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: is not voluntary, it's mandated. But we volunteer because when
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: you volunteer, you get to pick your post. When they
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: mandate you, they put you where they want you to go. So,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: because we know we're going to get mandated, we volunteer
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: on the front end, like I explained to my opening statement,
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: versus getting hit with the mandation on the back end
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to where they need you to go. Question who is
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: instituting the mandatory overtime hours? Answer on that day, Lieutenant Knata.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: Question and how often would you or other correctional officers
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: in the Shoe have to work overtime? Answer every day?
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Question how many shifts would you work a week? Answer
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: five days of double shifts. But on your last day
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: you can't be mandated, so did be? Four question was
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: every shift that you worked did that include an overtime shift?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Answer yes? Question so eight hours plus gets interrupted by Tova.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Answer another eight question, so sixteen hour total shifts? Answer correct.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Question What were your shifts like when you were working
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: in the Shoe? Answer my shift was four pm to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: midnight and I had one day where it was two
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to ten. Question how would you describe working a shift
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: in the shoe. Answer when you come in for your
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: shift at four o'clock, counter being done, and immediately after
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: that you're getting ready to feed inmates. And after that
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I kind of always wait on the directive from the
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: senior officer that I'm working with because I don't really
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: know how to work the shoe, So whatever they asked
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: me to do or tell me to do, I kind
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: of lean on the senior person. Question was Michael Thomas?
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: Was he a senior officer? Answer yes, question okay. On
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: a typical shift, you said that you would feed the inmates.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Were there any other responsibilities that you had on every shift?
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Answer giving out toilet tries for example, toilet paper rounds.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Question Were those responsibilities expected of you on every shift
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: or do they differ? Answer in the shoe Yes question okay.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Did they differ by the time of day or the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: hour or the shifts that you're working? Answer no question.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Would you always complete all your duties? Answer to the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: best of my recollection, not all the time? Question okay?
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Why not? Answer because sometimes we don't have enough people,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: So depending on the task, it probably can't get done
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: because there's not enough people to get it done, or
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: sometimes it is enough people, but because they're tired, it
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't get done correctly. Emmer, did you prioritize which tasks
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: were most important when you decided or when some certain
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: tasks weren't completed? Noel, No, I just kind of wont
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: with the flow of whoever I was working with at
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: the time. All right, we're going to wrap up right here,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and in the next episode, we're going to pick up
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: where we left off. All the information that goes with
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to pick up where he left
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: off with the Touvin no Well transcript from her meeting
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: with Congress. Question, you mentioned that you worked with the
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: senior officer and then there were also people above you
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: while you were on your shift. Did you have a
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: good relationship with those people that you work with? Answer yes.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Question have you ever had any issues with any of
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: your colleagues? Answer no, Well, that's not what the captain
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: told us. Remember in the OIG interview that we did
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: with the captain what he said about Tovin O Well,
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that's interesting. Question. Would anyone else ever instruct you on
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: how to do your role while in the shoe. Answer no.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Question what kind of authority did you have to make
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: a decision? Answer I would say I didn't have authority
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: to make decisions. I was just a correctional officer. Question okay,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I believe we have another member that's entered. Would you
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: please introduce yourself for the record. Good morning on Melanie Stansbury,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I represent New Mexico's first congressional district. Thank you. Question
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: while you were in the shoe, what cell blocks or
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: areas where you were responsible for overseeing? Answer all of them?
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Question okay, how many cell blocks total we're in the shoe?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Answer six? Question who can access the shoe? Answer from
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the outside? Question? Uh huh? Answer anyone can access the
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: shoe from the outside if control pops the door and
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: lets you in. Answer or question by everyone? Do you
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: mean mcc staff? Answer correct? Question Okay, so it's not
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: closed off to shoe employees. Answer correct question. Could you
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: walk us through the procedures required for conducting cell checks
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: as an officer in the shoe? Answer a cell check?
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Question like round doing your rounds? Answer okay, so during
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the rounds there is an officer that opens the grill,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: which is the door of the tier, and then the
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: other officer goes down and checks on every single person
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: and come around check on every single person and exit
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: question when you say check on every person? Answer seeing
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: and a live breathing body. Question would that require you
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: to enter the cell? Answer no? Question okay? Would you
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: look through a window? Answer a window? Question? Would you
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: talk to them? Answer sometimes? Question okay, can you describe
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: how you would access the shoe when you would start
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: your shift? Answer? When I get to the door, control
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: has to let me in the first door. Then when
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: you come through the door, there's a second door, and
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: the officer on the inside has to let you in
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: the second door. Question so you would say that's two
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: layers of security to be able to get in. Would
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you have to scan in? Did you have a badge
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: or anything like that? Answer no question. I understand mcc
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: is a high rise building. Answer correct question. Would you
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: go up an elevator to get to the shoe? Answer correct? Question? Okay?
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: What floor was the shoe on? Answer the ninth floor?
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Question out of how many? Answer ten? Question? Do you
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: think there was any reason why it was as high
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: up as it was? Answer? I don't know. Question Okay,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: could you explain to us the layout of the shoe
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: block or the shoe unit at the MCC. Answer. So,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: when you enter the shoe and you walk towards the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: center the common area, there's a desk with computers. Before
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the deaths, there are two tiers up and down. Then
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: to the if you're facing the desk left in the middle,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: there's two more tiers up and down, and then off
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: to the far left there's the last two tiers up
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: and down, so it's really like a circle. It's like
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the desk and then two tiers, two tiers, two tiers,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: and then going up the last set of tiers you
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: could go up the ten south wing. Question So does
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: that make it two or three tiers total? Answer? Well,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: ten health is technically not connected, so in shoe it's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: still six, but you can access the door there that
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: goes to ten South, which is another unit. Question Okay,
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that's not included in the shoe answer correct question. How
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: many inmates are typically housed in the shoe? Answer shoe.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: It varies because the shoe doesn't have to be full
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: because people are placed in the shoe for different reasons,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: so it could be any number question why would inmates
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: go to the shoe? Answer? Some inmates go to the shoe.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: Answer Some inmates go to the shoe for disciplinary segregation.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Some inmates go because they have to be separated, Some
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: go because their high profile. Question would they ever go
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: for mental health reasons? Answer? I'm not sure. Question how
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: long did inmates typically stay in the shoe? Answer I
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: don't know. Question you mentioned some inmates would go to
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the shoe for disciplinary reasons, some would go for the
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: fact that they were high profile. Why was mister Epstein
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: sent to the shoe? Answer mister Epstein was in the
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: shoe because he was a high profile inmate. Question and
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: not because of his mental health issues at the time?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Answer correct. Question Okay, is there any reason why shoe
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: inmates would be assigned to a cell in the upper
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: tier versus lower tier? Answer no question, So like a
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: high profile inmate wouldn't go to an upper tier versus
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: a lower tier? Answer no question, Okay, where was mister
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: epstein cell located within the shoe? Answer as soon as
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: you enter the shoe the first two tiers. He was
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: on the top tier the first door to You're right, question,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: do you know the name of the staircase that he
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: would have been next to. Answer, I can't remember. She
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: gets cut off? Does l tier? He gets cut off
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: now by her? I was gonna say, I think it's Sell.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Where was mister Epstein cell in relation to your station? Answer?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: So the cell block when you go up the stairs,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the desk is like right off to the left as
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: far as feet go. I don't know. Question was your
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: station on the same level as mister Epstein Sell? No,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: he would have been up the stairs and the desk
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: would have been on the ground. Answers Noel. Question would
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you estimate about how long it would take for you
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: to walk to a cell? Answer? Oh, to walk like
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: two minutes. Question I know you mentioned him previously, but
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: who is Officer Michael Thomas? Answer? Officer Michael Thomas is
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: the materials handler officer that worked with me on August tenth,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, from midnight to eight in the morning. Question
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: did he work the four pm to midnight shift on
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: August ninth? Answer? No? Question who worked that shift with you?
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Answer Davis and bon HAMI question how long had you
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: an Officer Thomas worked together in the shoe Answer that
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: was my first time working with Officer Thomas. Question, it
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem like there was that many correctional officers working
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: in the shoe. Was it just happenstance happened, chance that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: you work with them? Answer yeah. Question okay, had you
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: guys worked together before in any other mcc unit? Answer no,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: we never worked any units before. Question you mentioned he
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: was a senior correctional officer. Answer yeah. Question would that
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: make him technically your supervisor? Answer so he wouldn't be
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: my supervisor. He was a correctional officer before, and then
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: he got promoted to materials handler, but not making him
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: my supervisor. Question so you both had authority to make
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: your decisions while on shift? Answer yes. Question did you
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: consider him? I know he said you'll only work with
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: them one shift with them, but in that time, did
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: you consider him to be a good employee? Answer no?
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Question why not? Answer because he was tired? Question from
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: working long shifts? Answer correct? Question overtime shifts answer overtime
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: question mandated overtime shifts? Answer yes. Question did you and
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: mister Thomas have a good working relationship? Answer that was
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: actually my first time working with them, so I would
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: say we didn't have any relationship. Question Okay, did y'all
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: speak during your shift? Answer? Yes, question do you remember
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: what you discussed? Answer? I went to him to conduct
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the count, and he expressed to me that he was tired.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Question So, because he was tired, he wouldn't do the count?
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Answer correct, question, So what was your response to that? Answer? Okay?
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Question So did you in fact do the count by yourself? Answer?
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: At ten pm? Question? Okay? Answer improperly, Noel. Just to clarify,
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Thomas goes on at twelve, that count that I did
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: at ten wouldn't have been when he was there. When
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: he was there, I didn't do any Question When did
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you leave the mcc tovia Noel, August tenth. Mister Grant
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: jumps in. You mentioned that you did ten pm count improperly?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: What about? What about that made it in proper Noel?
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Because I did it by myself. An account is supposed
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: to be conducted with two people. Mister Grant, Thank you, Noel,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. Questions again now by miss fire a Bend. Question,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: So you left August tenth, twenty nineteen. Why did you leave? Answer?
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That was my morning. My shift was over at eight am.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Question okay, maybe I should clarify leave MCC, meaning when
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: did you stop working for Metropolitan? Answer as in so,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the last day I was in the building was August
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: tenth when they terminated me. I don't remember the date,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: mister Foyd, but that was it was years later though, Noel, Yeah,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: years later. Question were you terminated from MCC as a
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: result of what happened in the morning of August tenth,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen? Answer correct. Question. Was there an internal review
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that was conducted by MCC following the incident of Jeffrey
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Epstein's death? Answer yes. Question was there one conducted by
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons? Answer yes. Question were you
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: interviewed as part of those reviews? Answer yes? Question what
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: were the findings of those What were you asked about
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: in those reviews? Do you recall? Answer? I was asked
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: about the culture of MCC, the mandations, the counts, the rounds.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: Question and what did you tell either MCC, he or
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: a BOP about the culture and everything you just mentioned? Answer?
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I spoke about how often we were mandated to work.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: As a result of that, the job was not performed
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: accurately because people were retired, and I attempted to do
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: the count and the rounds but it has to be
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: conducted with two people, so if the other person is tired,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: then it cannot be carried out accurately. I also took
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: accountability for performing my job and duties inaccurately. Question thank you, answer,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: you're welcome. Question why was mister Epstein moved to the shoe? Answer?
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question when did you first learn that
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein was being moved to the shoe? Answer? When
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Epstein came in, he went straight to the shoe. So
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: moved like cell block or moved like into the shoe.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Question into the shoe. Answer he came into the shoe.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Question Okay, do you remember the date of that? Answer
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: he came in July of twenty nineteen. Question were there
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: any discussions amongst the MCC staff, or specifically the shoe
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: staff that be aftery Epstein was going to be incarcerated
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: at MCC? Answer no question. Was he known to you
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: or to others to the best of your knowledge before
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: he was incarcerated? Answer so for others, I don't know.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: For me, no question. So for the record, did you
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: know who mister Epstein was at the time? Answer no question.
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: Had you ever personally spoken to mister Epstein prior to
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: him being moved to the shoe. Answer moved. He came
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: to the shoe in July, and I worked in the
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: shoe from June. So to me, he wasn't moved. He
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: was always in the shoe. Question okay, I'll rephrase it.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: So did you ever speak with mister Epstein prior to
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: him being in jail? Answer no. So mister Epstein, as
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: we all know now, was a high profile figure. That's
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: why he was moved into the shoe, and his case
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: was pretty widely known and a reporter on before he
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: was incarcerated at MCC, Were any aspects of his case
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: or any of his crimes discussed amongst MCC staff? Answer no,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: not to me. Question No one to your knowledge spoke
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: about mister Epstein. Answer to me, no question okay. How
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: long was mister Epstein in MCC before his death on
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: August tenth, twenty nineteen. Answer, he came in in July
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: to August tenth. Question, and you were assigned to work
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: the shoe for the entire time that mister Epstein was
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: held there is that correct answer? Correct question? Roughly, how
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: many shifts did you work during the time mister Epstein
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: was in the shoe. Answer I don't know to give
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: you an actual number, but from June to August tenth.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Question June is when you started working in the shoe.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Answer correct question okay, but mister Epstein didn't get there
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: old July. And you said earlier that you worked four
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: or five times a week. Answer on huh question shifts
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: a week? Answer correct question sixteen hour shifts? Answer sixteen
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: question Okay? While you were on shift, were you directly
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: responsible for mister Epstein's cell? Answer no, question, how so?
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Answer I was responsible for all the inmates in the shoe,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: not mister epstein cell. Question sure, but mister Epstein's cell
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: was included in all of the cells that you were
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: responsible for. Answer yeah, question okay. How often were you
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: required to check his cell when you were on duty?
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Answered the standard required time? Conducting irregular thirty minute rounds
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: and counts. Question So could you kind of help me
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: explain this a little bit? So you did rounds that
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: were every half hour. Answer yes, question, but then the
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: counts were different than the rounds answer yes, question how so?
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Answer the counts were conducted so like I started four,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: there's four, there's a ten midnight, three am, and five am,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: and you were responsible for each of those counts. Answer yes.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Let me just clarify, So on the four there's three
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: of us working, so there's two people that have to count,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: So I don't necessarily have to count, it just has
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: to be two people. Question. And this was the same
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: requirement the counts in the rounds for all inmates that
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: were housed in the shoe Answer shoe correct question. Okay,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: what's the difference between account and a round in terms
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: of what you were actually doing or looking for or
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: your responsibilities at the time. Question? Because account you're counting
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: and also making sure that you're seeing a live breathing body.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: But around is just seeing a live breathing body. You're
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: not necessarily counting how many people are in there? Question?
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: So the rounds were a bit more relaxed, so to speak.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Answer correct question. So, what were the goals or purposes
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: of around an account? I know you just mentioned it,
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: but answer around would be to make sure that everyone's Okay,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: account would be to account that the amount of people
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: that are housed in there. Question. Okay, they go off
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the record, then they come back on. All right, folks,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here, and in the
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: next episode, we're going to pick up where we left off.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: All the information that goes with this episode can be
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: found in the description box.