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Murdaugh Murders: Bomb Threat Halts Testimony in Trial · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. In the last moments, the
0:30
Speaker 1: Alex Murderague double murder trial has been put on hold
0:34
Speaker 1: and the entire courthouse has been evacuated due to a
0:39
Speaker 1: reported bomb threat. And you know when I told you
0:42
Speaker 1: I love this judge, Judge Neman. He reminds me so
0:46
Speaker 1: much of the judge that I tried cases in front of.
0:49
Speaker 1: Judge Neman as calm as a cucumber, very quietly says, quote,
0:55
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, we have to evacuate the building at
0:59
Speaker 1: this time, so we will be in recess until we
1:02
Speaker 1: discover what's going on, he says in a very calm voice.
1:07
Speaker 1: And everybody gets up and walks off. Meanwhile, outside, reporters
1:11
Speaker 1: and journalists are running like crazy. But the jury has
1:15
Speaker 1: been taken out of the courthouse due to a bomb threat. Gee,
1:20
Speaker 1: I wonder who would have done that? Who would want
1:25
Speaker 1: the testimony delayed? I mean, I hope I'm right, But
1:31
Speaker 1: do we really think that there is a bomb at
1:33
Speaker 1: the Colinton County Courthouse. We'll find out, guys. I mean, see, Grace,
1:39
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thanks for being with us. There
1:41
Speaker 1: is a recess and the bomb threat was time coincidentally
1:45
Speaker 1: write in lunchtime with me in all star panel to
1:48
Speaker 1: make sense of what has happened in the courtroom in
1:50
Speaker 1: the last couple of hours. First of all, gunshot residue
1:56
Speaker 1: has appeared on more of Alex Murdog's clothes. First of all,
2:01
Speaker 1: take a less an hour cut four. Were there any
2:03
Speaker 1: gunshot residue? What'd you find on the shirt? So for
2:06
Speaker 1: the white T shirt, from the particle lift that was
2:08
Speaker 1: collected from the right sleeve, right chest area, two particles
2:11
Speaker 1: characteristic of gunshot primarisity were found, and from the left sleeve,
2:15
Speaker 1: left chest area the particle lift collected. From there one
2:18
Speaker 1: particle characteristic of gunshot primarisity was found. In my opinion
2:23
Speaker 1: is that that object, this T shirt was either in
2:25
Speaker 1: the vicinity to the discharge of a firearm or came
2:28
Speaker 1: into contact with something that had gunshot primary residue on it.
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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what did you located any particles
2:33
Speaker 1: and where they were all the shorts? Please yes, sir.
2:36
Speaker 1: On the right side, right groin area there were two
2:39
Speaker 1: particles located and confirmed, and then on the left growing
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Speaker 1: area there was one particle located and confirmed. My opinion
2:46
Speaker 1: is that that they were these this pair of shorts
2:49
Speaker 1: would were either in the vicinity to the discharge of
2:52
Speaker 1: a firearm or a kingdom in contact with something that
2:55
Speaker 1: had gunshot primary residue on it. Gunshot residues found on
2:58
Speaker 1: the clothing of Alex they're talking about on his shirt
3:02
Speaker 1: and his shorts. Now, recall he was wearing something, wearing
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Speaker 1: something completely different that afternoon at Moselle, which is their
3:12
Speaker 1: hunting lodge. Why the wardrobe change, But that said gunshot
3:18
Speaker 1: residue is found on those clothes, the T shirt and
3:21
Speaker 1: the shorts. With me an all star panel, IRV Brandt
3:24
Speaker 1: is joining me. This guy has traveled all over the
3:29
Speaker 1: world prosecuting cases, working on cases for the US government,
3:33
Speaker 1: the Marshals Services d J. He's written two books, Solo Shot,
3:38
Speaker 1: Curse of the Bluestone and Flying Solo, both on Amazon.
3:42
Speaker 1: IRV Brandt, that's not good. You've got gunshot residue on
3:48
Speaker 1: your shirt and your pants the night that your wife
3:52
Speaker 1: and son are gunned down. That's correct, Nancy. Though defense
3:57
Speaker 1: has always said that the cases circumstantial, it's not direct evidence,
4:04
Speaker 1: and it's true, but circumstantial evidence doesn't lie. And gunshot
4:10
Speaker 1: residue on your shirt and on your shorts is devastating
4:15
Speaker 1: to the defense. I don't know how they're going to
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Speaker 1: possibly counter that. I bet they'll find a way, because
4:20
Speaker 1: as much h double l that I've been giving to
4:24
Speaker 1: the league defense attorney Hart Pootlan, he's still one wily
4:28
Speaker 1: guy in the courtroom. They'll come up with something. Ted
4:31
Speaker 1: Williams joining me. Everybody you know Ted Williams, high profile
4:34
Speaker 1: defense attorney, former Washington DC police detective, Foxy's contributor start
4:40
Speaker 1: in a national TV show, Power of Attorney, Ted, thanks
4:42
Speaker 1: for being with us. Now, Ted, what do you make
4:45
Speaker 1: of this bomb threat? A bomb hasn't gone off yet,
4:48
Speaker 1: but what they did succeed in Dewey is delaying this testimony. Ted,
4:53
Speaker 1: you know, NASA's very interesting that the bomb scenario came
5:02
Speaker 1: into play just as one of the witnesses was testifying
5:06
Speaker 1: here at noon. It seems to me that or there's
5:10
Speaker 1: somebody out there or somebody's who are trying to or
5:14
Speaker 1: should we say, interfere in this case. I'm like you, Nancy,
5:19
Speaker 1: I like the way the judge was cool as a cucumber.
5:24
Speaker 1: I mean, the judge just said, hey, look, you know,
5:27
Speaker 1: let's stop here, and then he announced that they had
5:30
Speaker 1: to be an evacuation of the courthouse. That's very interesting
5:35
Speaker 1: that it happened at this immediate time. Maybe they'll be
5:39
Speaker 1: able to ferret it out where that information came from.
5:43
Speaker 1: You know, I find it the timing very unusual. Guys,
5:48
Speaker 1: for those of you who just joining us, we are
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Speaker 1: alive at the courthouse with the latest, and the latest
5:52
Speaker 1: is everybody went running. Now, the judge didn't run. I
5:55
Speaker 1: can guarantee you that that judge called cool, collected, dignified, hardline.
6:04
Speaker 1: I guarantee you he walked out with poise, as did
6:07
Speaker 1: his whole staff. Now as far as everybody else, who
6:10
Speaker 1: was nothing but tailhole and elbows, that's all you could see.
6:14
Speaker 1: But I'm looking at the timing, the timing. Why now, why,
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Speaker 1: right now, at this juncture of the trial, does somebody
6:22
Speaker 1: call in a bomb threat that said back to you,
6:26
Speaker 1: Ted Williams. Now, we know I'm going to take this
6:29
Speaker 1: everything you say with a box of salt, because you
6:34
Speaker 1: are a veteran defense attorney as well as a former cop.
6:37
Speaker 1: But you know, when gunshot residue turns up on the
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Speaker 1: clothes you're wearing the night your wife and son are
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Speaker 1: shot dead, it's not a good look, Ted, and Nancy,
6:46
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, it is not a good look. But
6:48
Speaker 1: there's always a defense for it, I believe, and I
6:52
Speaker 1: think that he may here, You may hear at some
6:57
Speaker 1: stage that hey, having guns and shooting guns at Mozelle
7:02
Speaker 1: is something that was always done there and that there
7:06
Speaker 1: And the problem with the gunshot, with the residue the
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Speaker 1: shot residue is that they're not able to say specifically
7:17
Speaker 1: when that residue was got on those clothes. So it
7:22
Speaker 1: could have been that night, it could have been later,
7:25
Speaker 1: it could have been two days before. So that is
7:30
Speaker 1: certainly something that is out there, and I don't think
7:32
Speaker 1: it's just clearly explanatory under the circumstances here, Nancy, can
7:37
Speaker 1: I interject it? Well, this is it? Start to Bethany.
7:40
Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany. Now, I know that you know we all
7:43
Speaker 1: agree on the panel, you know more than all of
7:45
Speaker 1: us put together. But I didn't know that gunshot residue
7:49
Speaker 1: was part of your training as a Beverly Hills psychoanalyst. Well,
7:54
Speaker 1: the winning part of my training is that he was
7:57
Speaker 1: struggling with opioid addiction, or maybe he wasn't struggling, Maybe
8:01
Speaker 1: he loved his opioid addiction. But when you are an
8:03
Speaker 1: addict like that, you are messy, and I think a
8:07
Speaker 1: lot of people will find it difficult to believe that
8:10
Speaker 1: if he did commit this crime, he would be so
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Speaker 1: messy as to wear his own clothing, have the guns
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Speaker 1: shot residue on it, you know, leave an obvious trail
8:21
Speaker 1: behind him. But opioid abuse lowers your connection to reality,
8:27
Speaker 1: and it reduces your connection and attachment to everyone around you.
8:32
Speaker 1: So somebody struggling with opioid addiction like this would not
8:36
Speaker 1: feel the love towards his wife and son that he
8:40
Speaker 1: once did. Now, remember Alex Murdoch, he pulled a lot
8:44
Speaker 1: of people into his web. If you listen to the
8:46
Speaker 1: trial testimony yesterday and today, Jeanie believed him for what
8:51
Speaker 1: how many years? Annett believed him. He charmed them. He
8:55
Speaker 1: called a net from his rehab and said, I love you.
8:58
Speaker 1: I'm just sorry for everything I've So the fact that
9:01
Speaker 1: he pulls so many people into his orbit until they
9:06
Speaker 1: have a dawning of consciousness that he's committing crimes means
9:09
Speaker 1: that whoever planned that bomb threat was also one of
9:12
Speaker 1: many people who got pulled into his orbit, and that's
9:15
Speaker 1: going to be an interesting thing is his trial proceeds
9:18
Speaker 1: like who has been conned by him? Who has been
9:20
Speaker 1: manipulated and charmed by him? And all these trolls and
9:23
Speaker 1: people out there who are now going to try to
9:26
Speaker 1: disrupt the testimony as the defense is examining the witnesses.
9:30
Speaker 1: Dodor Michelle Dupre also joining me. I've got with me
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst. You can find her at Dodtor
9:38
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com. I think what doctor Bethany just said,
9:43
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to interpret it in regular people talk,
9:46
Speaker 1: as I call it, is that if he's high as
9:48
Speaker 1: a kite, his love for his wife, if there is
9:51
Speaker 1: any left, and his sons out the window, he is
9:55
Speaker 1: just getting a solution to his problems. His son Paul
9:58
Speaker 1: caused a multi milli million dollar lawsuit to be filed
10:01
Speaker 1: after against the family after he crashed a boat and
10:04
Speaker 1: a beautiful young teen girl flies off to her death.
10:08
Speaker 1: He's dead. That's gonna be resolved. His wife, according to
10:13
Speaker 1: what we've been told there on the ground, was looking
10:17
Speaker 1: at divorce attorneys, which means forensic accounting, which means she's
10:21
Speaker 1: going to find out he's been snorting up or doping
10:24
Speaker 1: up all the money. She's dead, So that's solved. When
10:30
Speaker 1: you're high as a kite on opioids, you're not thinking rationally.
10:34
Speaker 1: I think that's what doctor Bethany just said in a
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Speaker 1: yes no, Doctor Bethany, is that what you just said? Yes?
10:53
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Greece God to Michelle Dupree. I'm
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Speaker 1: leaving our other gunshot residue expert psychoanalyst from Beverly Hills,
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Speaker 1: doctor Bethany Marshall, to go to doctor miss l. Dupree.
11:06
Speaker 1: And let me just tell you that, in addition to
11:08
Speaker 1: being a former detective, she is a pathologist, she is
11:12
Speaker 1: a medical examiner, and she's the author of Homicide Investigation
11:17
Speaker 1: Field Guide, which is some seriously good reading. Doctor Dupree.
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Speaker 1: You know I said, gunshot residue GSRS found on his
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Speaker 1: shirt and his pants his second wardrobe for that evening.
11:34
Speaker 1: It's also found on his hands. It's on his hands,
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Speaker 1: doctor Dupre. You know what that means. Well, Nancy, remember
11:42
Speaker 1: that he went to the house to get a gun
11:44
Speaker 1: after he had called the police, so he did have
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Speaker 1: a gun in his hand that night. He could get
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Speaker 1: gunshot residue on his clothing from that. Well, wait a minute,
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Speaker 1: would you repeat that one more time? What did you
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Speaker 1: say about gunshot residue? So I said that he went
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Speaker 1: to the house. He told the nine one one parader
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Speaker 1: in law enforcement that he was going to the house
12:02
Speaker 1: to get a gun, which he did, and when police arrived,
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Speaker 1: a gun was leaning up against I believe it was
12:08
Speaker 1: his car. So he did handle a gun that night.
12:12
Speaker 1: It is possible to get gunshot residue from handling the
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Speaker 1: gun that night. I believe that perhaps he got it
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Speaker 1: on that T shirt and clothing because he may have
12:20
Speaker 1: been wearing it when he before he changed clothes, and
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Speaker 1: the clothes that he was wearing when he allegedly shot
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Speaker 1: them got gunshot residue on the T shirt. Okay, Ted Williams.
12:33
Speaker 1: We didn't have to look far, did we. There's your
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Speaker 1: answer right there, he should say. Yes, I'm not even
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Speaker 1: contesting this. I had gunshot residue on my hands because
12:46
Speaker 1: when I found my wife and son shot dead, I
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Speaker 1: grabbed a gun because I was afraid the purpe could
12:51
Speaker 1: still be there. There you go. You're right, Ted Williams.
12:55
Speaker 1: And it pains me to say that, but it's true.
12:57
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. They're going to have an excuse handed
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Speaker 1: to them on a silver platter, No, on a Christmas tree.
13:05
Speaker 1: As my father used to say, there's the answer, Ted, Well,
13:09
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. That could very well be one of
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Speaker 1: the answers. And I think when you looked at Megan Fletcher,
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Speaker 1: who testifies she was the gunshot residue expert, she clearly
13:23
Speaker 1: said that while she found it on the jacket, while
13:27
Speaker 1: she found it in the area of some of his underwear,
13:31
Speaker 1: that she could not say when it got there. And
13:36
Speaker 1: that's the problem that the government has. It can show
13:40
Speaker 1: that this residue was there, but when was it put there?
13:44
Speaker 1: When how did it get there? And they're all explanations here, No, no, no,
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Speaker 1: Ted disagree. I'll tell you why. Gunshot residue, which I've mentioned,
13:55
Speaker 1: it's just like baby powder. You're not gonna have gunshot
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Speaker 1: powder residue you on your underwear for very long because
14:04
Speaker 1: when you take down your pants, you're gonna lose that GSR.
14:08
Speaker 1: I mean, all you gotta do is that to get
14:10
Speaker 1: rid of gunsight residue, Ted, And I mean it's there
14:13
Speaker 1: for a very short period of time. That's why, as
14:16
Speaker 1: I mentioned, yesterday. We would never, absolutely never let a
14:19
Speaker 1: defendant go to the bathroom on a crime scene because
14:23
Speaker 1: all you have to do is wash your hands and
14:25
Speaker 1: the GSR is gone. So the fact that you said
14:29
Speaker 1: GSR is on is underwear, you have to kind of
14:32
Speaker 1: figure out how did that happen? And it must have
14:36
Speaker 1: just happened because it would have been gone if he
14:39
Speaker 1: had dropped his drawers to go to the bathroom or
14:41
Speaker 1: for any other reason. Ted, well, but Nancy, if you
14:44
Speaker 1: would testifying in this case, I think that would come
14:47
Speaker 1: across credibly. But just think about it. Megan Fletcher testified
14:53
Speaker 1: everything that you've just said here, which is rational and logical,
14:58
Speaker 1: or she did not testify too, so that what you're
15:02
Speaker 1: saying is not in evidence, So it's not part of
15:05
Speaker 1: the case unfortunately. And I think that maybe down the
15:09
Speaker 1: road they may very well be able to bring in
15:12
Speaker 1: another exploit that can connect these dots. But until these
15:16
Speaker 1: dots dots are connected, or it's out there and it's
15:19
Speaker 1: out there that this residue was found, and that she
15:22
Speaker 1: cannot say when it was a place there, that's really
15:27
Speaker 1: the prosecution really needs to make a case for asking
15:31
Speaker 1: how easy is it to get rid of gunshot residue
15:34
Speaker 1: and let the jury understand that it's fairly easy. I'm
15:38
Speaker 1: my phone is blowing up right now because I'm getting
15:42
Speaker 1: messages from people that were inside the courtroom telling me
15:48
Speaker 1: that right now everyone is waiting for dogs to come
15:52
Speaker 1: to the courthouse and make a sweep of the courthouse
15:56
Speaker 1: looking for a potential bomb. That's what's going on at
16:01
Speaker 1: the courthouse right now. While we wait to find out
16:06
Speaker 1: what exactly, if anything is found, I want to focus
16:11
Speaker 1: on what happened in the courtroom. Why would someone hypothetically
16:17
Speaker 1: want to stop the testimony and its tracks about this
16:21
Speaker 1: gun shot residue. Let's take a listen to more it's
16:27
Speaker 1: in our cut five about the gunshot residue found all
16:32
Speaker 1: over Alex Barlock's clothes and that raincoat. Listen after your examination,
16:38
Speaker 1: what were your result Particles characteristic of gunshot primary residue
16:41
Speaker 1: were also found on the interior of this jacket? Was
16:44
Speaker 1: there a lot of gunshot primary residue inside the inside
16:46
Speaker 1: of the jacket? I would say there were a significant,
16:49
Speaker 1: significant number of particles of particles characteristic give gunshot primary
16:54
Speaker 1: residue on the inside of this Jackie. Yes, I mean,
16:56
Speaker 1: did you determine. I confirmed thirty eight particles characteristic. There
17:01
Speaker 1: were significantly more particles were listed as candidate features containing
17:07
Speaker 1: the elements led Barryman antimony. I had to make an
17:10
Speaker 1: analyst decision based on my experience to stop at the
17:14
Speaker 1: number that I did. There was a possibility that there
17:16
Speaker 1: would have been more on it, but you found thirty eight.
17:20
Speaker 1: I confirmed thirty eight. Okay, more about the gunshot residue. Guys,
17:25
Speaker 1: it seems as if the state is building up to
17:29
Speaker 1: a climax. And I want to go back to you,
17:32
Speaker 1: Ted Williams, former Washington DC cop defense attorney. I either well,
17:39
Speaker 1: I like to both ways. Ted. I like to start
17:42
Speaker 1: the case with a bang, like maybe putting up the
17:46
Speaker 1: medical examiner right up front, and I like to end
17:51
Speaker 1: it with a bang. So do you get the sense, Ted,
17:57
Speaker 1: that the state is working up to the zenith the
18:02
Speaker 1: culmination of their case, which I believe may very well
18:06
Speaker 1: be Curtis Eddie Smith cousin Eddie that reportedly took a
18:11
Speaker 1: shot at Murdogue to get life insurance policy proceeds. What
18:16
Speaker 1: do you make of that? Well, you know, it's interesting
18:20
Speaker 1: as to where the case is going. Nancy, I gotta
18:23
Speaker 1: tell you. I see a circumstantial evidence case here, but
18:27
Speaker 1: it seems to be somewhat of a rambling discard of
18:30
Speaker 1: a case. I mean, I'm deeply concerned here that you
18:35
Speaker 1: would even allow, by the way, this financial evidence to
18:39
Speaker 1: come in. I think it's substantially more prejudicial and probitive.
18:42
Speaker 1: And I think the statement right now is just can
18:47
Speaker 1: I say, ted Ted, you know what? Yes, did somebody
18:53
Speaker 1: ask you about the financial evidence? Because I know what
18:56
Speaker 1: you're doing. You're dodging the question, and typically I think
19:01
Speaker 1: you'd be right. The financial evidence could not come in
19:04
Speaker 1: because it would be doing more prejudicial than probitive. In
19:07
Speaker 1: other words, it would hurt his reputation more than it
19:10
Speaker 1: would prove anything. That's what probative means. But under the law,
19:15
Speaker 1: if a probably bad act goes to course of conduct scheme, motive,
19:21
Speaker 1: frame of mind, it comes in. Boo hoo, it came in.
19:28
Speaker 1: It came in to show motive. His world was spinning out.
19:31
Speaker 1: Ted over the money, over the money he spent on
19:34
Speaker 1: It's really hard for me to believe he's spent all
19:36
Speaker 1: that money on dope. That said, it's motive evidence, But
19:41
Speaker 1: do you believe they're working up to Curtis Smith. I
19:47
Speaker 1: think they're working up to somebody or something, and I
19:50
Speaker 1: don't know where they're going right now with their case,
19:54
Speaker 1: because as I've said, it seems like it's really whatever
20:00
Speaker 1: we can throw at the wall and hope that it
20:02
Speaker 1: would stick. Or some of the evidence that they put in,
20:06
Speaker 1: like you said, this gun residue, that's very important. We
20:12
Speaker 1: know that the night of this incident, that when Alex
20:16
Speaker 1: went to his mother's home, we have a care governed
20:21
Speaker 1: as saying that he had blue top black matter that
20:26
Speaker 1: he had with him and that he had gone upstairs
20:28
Speaker 1: with him. It is believed that this was this blue
20:31
Speaker 1: poncho that had some of the residue on it. But
20:36
Speaker 1: again we don't know where the government is gone because
20:40
Speaker 1: they seem to be just rambling. And I'm really not
20:45
Speaker 1: encouraged with the case that the government is putting rambling.
20:49
Speaker 1: They don't seem to know how to put this case on.
20:53
Speaker 1: They put on some witnesses and then they go back
20:56
Speaker 1: to the financial records. Now they're looking at some one
21:00
Speaker 1: to talk about more of the financial records. And I
21:03
Speaker 1: gotta tell you this is not the way I would
21:06
Speaker 1: have put on this case. I agree with you I
21:09
Speaker 1: think putting a medical examine on number one and having
21:12
Speaker 1: them to explain what took place there is significant and important.
21:16
Speaker 1: And on the end, I'm hoping that they have this
21:20
Speaker 1: witness that just blows this case out of the water.
21:23
Speaker 1: But I'm not sure about that. Nancy. Nancy kind make
21:25
Speaker 1: a comment about that the financials, Yeah, hold on, hold on,
21:29
Speaker 1: I want to say something that said Williams. Ted Williams, Now,
21:32
Speaker 1: I know that you're a high profile defense lawyer, but
21:38
Speaker 1: why are you saying all this? Do you you think
21:41
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog and Hartpoolian are going to take you out
21:44
Speaker 1: to a state dinner after the trial? Because everything that
21:47
Speaker 1: you just said, well almost everything, they're not rambling. The
21:51
Speaker 1: state is not rambling. Now, granted, granted there is a
21:55
Speaker 1: grain of truth in what you just said. The state's
21:58
Speaker 1: witnesses have rambled on a tiny bit. I will concede that,
22:03
Speaker 1: But I don't think the state is rambling. Why did
22:06
Speaker 1: you say that? Well, I don't think it's And let
22:08
Speaker 1: me back off a little bit here. I don't think
22:10
Speaker 1: it's so much the state. I think it's some of
22:12
Speaker 1: the witnesses that they're putting on. But I would hope
22:17
Speaker 1: that they have that one witness that's gonna blow this
22:21
Speaker 1: out because clearly, as your first guest said, and I
22:24
Speaker 1: do agree with him, this is purely a circumstantial evidence case.
22:28
Speaker 1: Okay again, and I think I hear doctor Dupree or
22:32
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany jumping in, but Ted Williams just a couple
22:35
Speaker 1: of quick lightning round questions. Yes, No, it's true that
22:40
Speaker 1: under the law, the black and white letter of the law,
22:43
Speaker 1: that circumstantial evidence is deemed as powerful as direct evidence.
22:48
Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Absolutely, are called to the way it's used. Absolutely,
22:53
Speaker 1: So bottom line, when you say it's just a circumstantial case,
22:58
Speaker 1: that means nothing to me. I love circumstantial cases. I
23:01
Speaker 1: like them better than direct cases. This evidence. I mean,
23:05
Speaker 1: when Curtis Eddie Smith takes the stand and says what
23:08
Speaker 1: I think he's gonna say, there's gonna be another bomb
23:12
Speaker 1: threat because I think Murda is going to threaten to
23:14
Speaker 1: fire Hartpoolian when his cousin Eddie spills everything. Okay, I'm
23:20
Speaker 1: hearing in my ear. Is it doctor Dupree or doctor
23:23
Speaker 1: Bethany that wants in. I have a quixpidiment about the
23:27
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence, and that is that I think it's important,
23:31
Speaker 1: not just because his world was spinning out of control,
23:34
Speaker 1: but there's a saying in my field with sociopaths, and
23:37
Speaker 1: that is death before dishonor. And what that means is,
23:41
Speaker 1: if their loved ones are about to see them in
23:44
Speaker 1: a negative light, if they're about to be humiliated, I
23:46
Speaker 1: fear about to lose respect in the eyes of somebody
23:51
Speaker 1: important to them, they would rather kill that person than
23:55
Speaker 1: be seen in a diminished light. So I see the
23:58
Speaker 1: possibility that he murdered his wife and son, not so
24:02
Speaker 1: much because of the fact that all of his financial
24:06
Speaker 1: misdeeds would be exposed safe, you know, through some divorce
24:10
Speaker 1: proceeding or something like that, but that they would see
24:15
Speaker 1: that he had been supporting them off of stolen gains
24:18
Speaker 1: for all of these years. So he risoned to Edra, Yes, okay,
24:23
Speaker 1: now you're not just using psychological terms. You threw some
24:26
Speaker 1: French at me, all right, reason for living? Okay, I
24:31
Speaker 1: have managed to pick that much up. But I'm giving
24:34
Speaker 1: tons of questions on social media, and one is for you,
24:39
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, what would the effect of a bomb threat
24:44
Speaker 1: be on a jury? Well, see, I think that's a
24:48
Speaker 1: very good question because remember after the murder of Maggie
24:53
Speaker 1: and Paul was revealed to the staff at the law firm,
24:57
Speaker 1: they became very paranoid. Remember they were looking out the
25:00
Speaker 1: windows and they were saying to the attorneys and especially
25:03
Speaker 1: to Alec Murdoch, oh I see a white car, or
25:06
Speaker 1: you better not leave leave for home now, because you
25:09
Speaker 1: know somebody might be coming to get you. So there
25:11
Speaker 1: is this general paranoia that there was a killer on
25:16
Speaker 1: the loose, not that there was potentially a killer within
25:19
Speaker 1: the law firm. And I think that paranoia could spread
25:23
Speaker 1: to the jury that if they think truthfully, if they
25:26
Speaker 1: assess the situation accurately, are they going to going to
25:30
Speaker 1: receive some threat when this trial is over. So you know,
25:34
Speaker 1: when we are threatened and we're we feel in danger
25:38
Speaker 1: and the amygdala, the fight or flight gets activated, we
25:41
Speaker 1: can't think clearly. So this is really going to affect
25:45
Speaker 1: the jurors assessment and they need to be reassured not
25:48
Speaker 1: only that they are safe, that potentially they have some
25:51
Speaker 1: protection after this trial wraps, and also treatment for potential
25:55
Speaker 1: trauma from everything they're seeing and hearing. Dodgor Michelle Dupree,
26:00
Speaker 1: an me forensic pathologist, medical examiner, former detective author, What
26:05
Speaker 1: were you saying, doctor Michelle Well? I wanted to go
26:07
Speaker 1: back to the circumstantial evidence and to the gunshot residue.
26:11
Speaker 1: Circumstantial evidence, Nancy, I totally agree with you. I love
26:14
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. Circumstantial evidence is physical evidence, and physical evidence
26:19
Speaker 1: doesn't lie finding this gunshot residue, which is the circumstantial
26:24
Speaker 1: evidence I mean, tells us a lot. I think you know,
26:27
Speaker 1: Alex handled a gun that night. Okay, that's fine, But
26:30
Speaker 1: where is this gunshot residue found on his person? And
26:34
Speaker 1: it's found in places that normally simply handling a gun
26:37
Speaker 1: you're probably not going to find. And I think that's
26:40
Speaker 1: a question we need to ask. Okay, wait a minute.
26:42
Speaker 1: I like what you're saying. Where could you explain that
26:47
Speaker 1: in let's just say, illustrative terms. Okay, so I can understand,
26:55
Speaker 1: you know, like a parable. Don't just tell me religion.
27:01
Speaker 1: Give me a story like you know, the prodigal son
27:05
Speaker 1: or the woman at the well. I understand that. Now,
27:08
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? That the gunshot residue was
27:12
Speaker 1: in a place that indicates he shot a gun versus
27:17
Speaker 1: had just picked up a gun out of fear. I
27:20
Speaker 1: believe so, because if we look back at the testimony,
27:23
Speaker 1: we see that gunshot residue was found on the left
27:25
Speaker 1: and the right sleeve, okay, but it was also found
27:29
Speaker 1: on his shorts in the left and right growing area.
27:32
Speaker 1: If you simply hold a gun, okay, it's going to
27:35
Speaker 1: be in a certain place. If you're firing that gun,
27:38
Speaker 1: it's going to be up near the collar, and that
27:40
Speaker 1: is where some of this gunshot residue was actually found
27:44
Speaker 1: just holding it or carrying it to your car. I
27:46
Speaker 1: don't believe it's likely to be found in those places, guys.
27:50
Speaker 1: So much is happening in the courtroom right now. We're
27:52
Speaker 1: still waiting for Sled to bring dogs. They may already
27:56
Speaker 1: be there to scan the building to find out this
28:00
Speaker 1: I'm threat is real. Is it to disrupt the testimony,
28:05
Speaker 1: this particular testimony. Is it real? Or is it simply
28:10
Speaker 1: to delay the trial? And who, if anyone, would that benefit?
28:15
Speaker 1: Is it meant to scare grars? Is it meant to
28:17
Speaker 1: scare witnesses or the judge? Guys, While we're trying to
28:21
Speaker 1: figure that out, another major develop in the courtroom today,
28:27
Speaker 1: yet another witness identifies the voice of Alex murdog and
28:32
Speaker 1: the kennel just before the shootings. Take a listen to
28:37
Speaker 1: our cut eleven the genus. Do you recognize any voice video?
29:08
Speaker 1: I hear three voices, and tell me who you hear.
29:11
Speaker 1: I hear Paul Murdoch, Naggie Murdock, and Eli Murdac. How
29:15
Speaker 1: sure are you? I'm a Christine and our New York
29:19
Speaker 1: control room running the show right now. Christine, I know it,
29:23
Speaker 1: sign on a list, but could you possibly pull up
29:27
Speaker 1: the video that goes with that sound? Everybody? I know
29:31
Speaker 1: you legal legals saw it just like we did in
29:33
Speaker 1: the courtroom. The video where Paul Murdog now dead. Oh
29:37
Speaker 1: there it is. That was quick. See. Paul Murdog has
29:40
Speaker 1: his friend's dog over. The friend is worried about an ailment,
29:43
Speaker 1: something to do with the dog's tail. The dog's name
29:46
Speaker 1: is Cash. So he's trying to get a video and
29:49
Speaker 1: a steel of the dog's tail that they're going to
29:52
Speaker 1: send to a lady veterinarian that they know. In the background,
29:58
Speaker 1: you can hear a lot of sound and it purports
30:01
Speaker 1: to be according to the state, Paul now murdered, Maggie
30:06
Speaker 1: now murdered, and lo and behold. Just before the murders,
30:09
Speaker 1: the voice of Alex Murdog. Hey, Christine, tell me when
30:12
Speaker 1: you have that where we can hear it as well.
30:17
Speaker 1: In the meantime, you hear one person identifying that voice.
30:22
Speaker 1: This is now the third person that identifies that voice
30:25
Speaker 1: as being Alex murdog on the scene of the murders
30:29
Speaker 1: and the kennel where the murders took place, just before,
30:33
Speaker 1: like minutes before the murders occurred. And that's not the
30:37
Speaker 1: only one. Take a listen to our cut one want
30:42
Speaker 1: you listen to it and tell me if you recognize
30:43
Speaker 1: any voices on this video, please quick ya, would you
31:17
Speaker 1: recognize any voices on that video, the three voices on
31:22
Speaker 1: that video or the voices of Paul Murdock, Maggie Murdock
31:30
Speaker 1: and Elec Murdock. How sure are you so? That gives me?
31:36
Speaker 1: Now the friend Rogie Rogan Gibson I believe was his
31:41
Speaker 1: last name, Rogan's friend IDs at one. Then you've got
31:47
Speaker 1: Um Cosby and you've got Annette Griswold. That's four people
31:53
Speaker 1: stating that that is Alex Murdock's voice, and this is
32:00
Speaker 1: I would say, with it. In thirty minutes of the
32:02
Speaker 1: killing or less, we believe that. Let me get out
32:07
Speaker 1: of my little trial notebook they gave me when I
32:09
Speaker 1: went into the courtroom. So you have to carry this,
32:11
Speaker 1: and instead of a phone, it says you've entered the
32:14
Speaker 1: no phone zone hashtag leave it at home. I narrowed
32:18
Speaker 1: it down, guys, believe it or not. After days of testimony,
32:23
Speaker 1: we'll find out of the prosecution. U this is my
32:24
Speaker 1: timeline or not, but down to an eight second space
32:30
Speaker 1: where I believe the murders occurred. And I'll tell you
32:32
Speaker 1: how I came up with that. I came up with
32:35
Speaker 1: it because this is the time that Maggie had just
32:39
Speaker 1: gotten Christine. Did you say we do have the video?
32:44
Speaker 1: Oh great, let's play that while I find this in
32:46
Speaker 1: my trial notebook. Let's see the video that they were
32:48
Speaker 1: just looking at. Get it get that quick, cash shit, Okay,
33:12
Speaker 1: hey got burdens now, bla bla blaba. It's a guinea.
33:21
Speaker 1: There's a chicken comes quick. How many times do you
33:33
Speaker 1: think that jury has seen that? I mean, you know,
33:36
Speaker 1: Ted Williams defense attorney joining us. That's pretty good evidence.
33:41
Speaker 1: You're talking about how you don't view circumstantial evidence as
33:45
Speaker 1: being as powerful as direct evidence. There you've got Alex
33:47
Speaker 1: and murdog the defendant, at the location of the murder,
33:52
Speaker 1: and the kennel, the dog kennel with the two victims
33:56
Speaker 1: just before the murders. What are they gonna do with that,
33:59
Speaker 1: Ted Nancy? That is damning evidence. That is direct damning
34:06
Speaker 1: evidence as far as I'm concerned in this case. We
34:10
Speaker 1: know that that evidence was around eight forty four that night,
34:16
Speaker 1: and that was a time that Alex has told investigators
34:21
Speaker 1: that he never never was around that Kimmel area, and
34:26
Speaker 1: this evidence, this puts him directly there at eight forty four.
34:31
Speaker 1: We know that he told his friend Cosby that he
34:34
Speaker 1: went to sleep on the couch and that at nine
34:37
Speaker 1: o'clock he left and he went to go to his
34:39
Speaker 1: mother's home. But he was never at that Kimmel And
34:43
Speaker 1: this is a kind of evidence that could or get
34:50
Speaker 1: a guilty verdict against this man. Because every one of
34:57
Speaker 1: the witnesses Nancy has said one hundred percent they recognize
35:03
Speaker 1: his voice on that video. That is damning and that
35:09
Speaker 1: is the best evidence I think that the prosecution got,
35:12
Speaker 1: and they need to continue to drive that that that
35:15
Speaker 1: that that video with any and every witness who can
35:19
Speaker 1: say that they can identify Paul's voice, Maggie's voice, and
35:24
Speaker 1: Alex's voice. That Alex is down one hundred percent. They
35:28
Speaker 1: can identify it. That's that's damning. Ted Williams, have you
35:33
Speaker 1: ever considered public speaking, because, man, you can lay it on.
35:37
Speaker 1: I mean, that was a heck of a sermon right there.
35:40
Speaker 1: Uh that said, I found it. I had to, Okay,
35:44
Speaker 1: I think I'm conceding what you said earlier that some
35:47
Speaker 1: of the state's witnesses were mandering. It took me like
35:52
Speaker 1: thirty four pages before I finally found my chart. Let's
35:56
Speaker 1: say this, guys, after all the Testament only for days.
36:01
Speaker 1: I came down with one block. Murders occur, according to
36:04
Speaker 1: me between eight forty nine point twenty seven PM and
36:10
Speaker 1: eight forty nine point thirty five PM. Why, because Maggie
36:17
Speaker 1: gets a text that she reads at eight forty nine
36:22
Speaker 1: twenty seven. That's where I'm getting that. She was still
36:25
Speaker 1: reading and responding to texts and whatever she was getting
36:29
Speaker 1: on her phone, phone calls and on it up to
36:31
Speaker 1: eight forty nine twenty seven. She opened up a group
36:36
Speaker 1: text about mister Randolph being ill Murdoch's dad at eight
36:41
Speaker 1: forty nine thirty five, a message and call from their
36:46
Speaker 1: friend Rogue and Roguie Gibson eight forty nine thirty five
36:51
Speaker 1: was never read. Paul had been responding back and forth
36:56
Speaker 1: to Rogie about the picture. Okay, do still, don't do
37:00
Speaker 1: the video. He's moving too much, making me still there,
37:03
Speaker 1: going back and forth and back and forth about the dog.
37:05
Speaker 1: And then suddenly eight forty nine thirty five, Paul's phone
37:10
Speaker 1: goes dead. No more text, no more phone calls, no
37:13
Speaker 1: more snapchats, nothing. She answers the call eighty nine twenty seven.
37:18
Speaker 1: His phone goes called eight thirty five, and this video
37:24
Speaker 1: is placing him there just minutes before all this happens. Okay,
37:32
Speaker 1: what about that, doctor Bethany Marshall, Well, my thought and
37:36
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be in the jury's mind.
37:38
Speaker 1: Why the dog kennels? If he did it, it seems
37:43
Speaker 1: like he's actually picking a burial site or a site
37:48
Speaker 1: to commit the crime, away from the house, away from
37:51
Speaker 1: his precious furniture, you know, in an area where it's
37:56
Speaker 1: sort of barren the dogs are kept. It shows utter
38:01
Speaker 1: disregard and disrespect for his wife and son. Yes, we
38:05
Speaker 1: have the timeline, Yes it's very damning, but as a psychoanalyst,
38:10
Speaker 1: I see a whole another area where when there is
38:14
Speaker 1: a planned targeted murder or attack, the perpetrator usually prepares
38:21
Speaker 1: like a dump site or a site to commit the crime.
38:25
Speaker 1: And it's almost like he's romancing that site like a
38:30
Speaker 1: drug addict would romance pharmacy, like an alcoholic would maybe romance,
38:37
Speaker 1: you know, a bar. That he is sort of swirling
38:40
Speaker 1: around that site until he gets up the courage to
38:43
Speaker 1: do it. And remember this is Paul Murdoch's m I mean,
38:48
Speaker 1: I know he's on trial and he hasn't been convicted,
38:51
Speaker 1: but he would always wait to the last minute with
38:55
Speaker 1: Genie with a net. He would just blow it and
39:00
Speaker 1: at ten to five asked them to write out a check,
39:02
Speaker 1: throw the office into chaos, and then get them to
39:05
Speaker 1: do it before anyone could respond. So I think it's
39:08
Speaker 1: the same m. It's just sort of you know, taking photos,
39:11
Speaker 1: a lot of chaos, working up his courage, and then
39:14
Speaker 1: bam that the il dean gets done. You know, speaking
39:17
Speaker 1: of chaos and the storm that seemed to be swirling
39:22
Speaker 1: around Murdog at all times, would you say, doctor Bethany Marshall,
39:28
Speaker 1: that that is an indicator of drug abuse. Yes, I
39:33
Speaker 1: would think his decreasing attachment to the people around him.
39:37
Speaker 1: The sloppiness that Jeanie the CFO referred to that he
39:41
Speaker 1: was very slick with his crimes and then all of
39:43
Speaker 1: a sudden he got more sloppy. The fact that he'd
39:46
Speaker 1: left his keys in his car. He would would often
39:50
Speaker 1: just not even show up to work. You know all
39:53
Speaker 1: of this. I think that the planting of the tree
39:56
Speaker 1: while Paul is snapchatting it shows a very confused mind.
40:02
Speaker 1: This is not somebody who plans a homicide as if
40:06
Speaker 1: somebody else had done it. He is very sloppy, and
40:10
Speaker 1: you know, even I know I'm going to all different
40:12
Speaker 1: directions with this, but I think it's because his mind
40:14
Speaker 1: went all different directions. So there's so many things to
40:17
Speaker 1: talk about. You think about the coat that had the
40:20
Speaker 1: gun residue on it, then it's at his mother's house,
40:22
Speaker 1: who has Alzheimer's, is hastily folded, it's stuffed in a closet.
40:27
Speaker 1: This is not somebody who's thinking anything out at all.
40:30
Speaker 1: There's a high degree of impulsivity, which we also know
40:34
Speaker 1: is associated with iPad abuse. Well, it's interesting that you're
40:37
Speaker 1: saying that because Alex and Mardog's paralegal described him as
40:41
Speaker 1: quote the Tasmanian devil. And I know you all know
40:46
Speaker 1: the Leoney Tunes character of the crazy Tasmanian devil. I
40:51
Speaker 1: want you to take a listen to what came out
40:53
Speaker 1: in the courtroom an hour cut six. How is the
40:57
Speaker 1: defendant as a Boston a law Just where were his
41:01
Speaker 1: typical work habits and what was he like in the office?
41:04
Speaker 1: Extremely intelligent when it comes to the law. I respected
41:08
Speaker 1: and admired that in him greatly. He didn't keep normal hours.
41:14
Speaker 1: He liked the flute in later in the late morning
41:17
Speaker 1: time or early afternoon of We always had a running
41:20
Speaker 1: joke we never knew, we knew that he might not
41:23
Speaker 1: be there all day, but he would always show up
41:25
Speaker 1: right before five o'clock when we were ready to leave.
41:27
Speaker 1: So just you know, kept unset hours pretty um. I
41:32
Speaker 1: sometimes call it referred to Elik as a Tasmanian devil
41:35
Speaker 1: because when he walked in, no matter what you were doing,
41:38
Speaker 1: you were started spinning because he was just coming through
41:41
Speaker 1: and you know, shouting everybody's name and ready to get
41:45
Speaker 1: work done when he was walking in the door. Yeah,
41:47
Speaker 1: I don't want a lawyer or a doctor, any of
41:50
Speaker 1: those professionals that you are trusting to take care of
41:54
Speaker 1: your business, or your body or your family showing up
41:58
Speaker 1: like the Tasmanian Devil at five o'clock and barking orders
42:17
Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. Another very unusual thing happened.
42:23
Speaker 1: As you will recall, it seems like a fleet of
42:26
Speaker 1: lawyers suddenly showed up at Moselle, the hunting lodge at
42:31
Speaker 1: the time of the murders. Now, how and the hey
42:34
Speaker 1: did that happen? I want you to take a listen
42:36
Speaker 1: to our cut two. This is Ronnie Crosby on the
42:42
Speaker 1: stand about what he saw at the hunting lodge known
42:46
Speaker 1: as Moselle the night that Maggie and Paul were gunned
42:49
Speaker 1: down dead in the dog kennel. Listen, do you remember
42:52
Speaker 1: June seventh, twenty one? Did you see earlier that day?
42:56
Speaker 1: I saw him later that night, I guess sometime around
43:00
Speaker 1: eleven PM. My wife got a phone call. I don't
43:03
Speaker 1: remember his exact words, but it was something about Maggie
43:08
Speaker 1: and Paul being shot. I got in my vehicle and
43:12
Speaker 1: started headed to Moselle. I'm confident that my partner, Mark
43:16
Speaker 1: Ball was already there. Um Elik was there. Did you
43:20
Speaker 1: have conversations with the defendant the next day? Yes? And
43:23
Speaker 1: what did Alec tell you about his activities at night?
43:26
Speaker 1: That Maggie and Paul went to went outside and to
43:32
Speaker 1: the dog kennels, and that he sat on the couch
43:35
Speaker 1: and fell asleep, and then around nine o'clock he woke up.
43:40
Speaker 1: He went to back to Barneville, Almeda to check on
43:45
Speaker 1: his mother and they goes And that is in direct
43:48
Speaker 1: contradiction to him being at the dog kennels, which we
43:51
Speaker 1: see in the snapchat. I saw so what he told
43:53
Speaker 1: police that he was never at the kennel. Guys, got
43:55
Speaker 1: an update for you from the courthouse. A Carleton County
43:58
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office depth was seen sprinting across the grounds of
44:03
Speaker 1: the Collinton County Courthouse, panic in his voice, yelling for
44:07
Speaker 1: everyone to clear the area. One person that made it
44:11
Speaker 1: out safe and sound immediately is Alex Murdog. He was
44:15
Speaker 1: driven out in a large black van. It's been confirmed
44:20
Speaker 1: that there was a bomb threat. Of course, the Colton
44:23
Speaker 1: County Sheriff setting that out a little while ago, and
44:26
Speaker 1: it's been said that law enforcement have not only in
44:29
Speaker 1: fact evacuated the courthouse, but the entire block of all
44:35
Speaker 1: the reporters and public spectators that were around the courthouse,
44:39
Speaker 1: there's a heavy police presence. Law enforcement have formed a
44:42
Speaker 1: perimeter around the courthouse square. Attendees exited the building from
44:46
Speaker 1: the front, sweeping stairs the ones not normally used by
44:51
Speaker 1: the public. So that confirms everything all the emails and
44:55
Speaker 1: texts I'm getting from people at the courthouse, there was
44:57
Speaker 1: a bomb threat. Wow, I wonder who engineered that. That said,
45:05
Speaker 1: let's talk about what happened in the courtroom. Let's talk
45:08
Speaker 1: about what we are hearing. Straight back out to our
45:13
Speaker 1: friend doctor Michelle Dupree, pathologist, medical examiner, detective and author,
45:20
Speaker 1: what do you make of what you're hearing now about
45:24
Speaker 1: all these people being there at the hunting Lodge the
45:28
Speaker 1: night of the murders, Nancy, This is not the way
45:31
Speaker 1: to handle a crime scene. Again, you don't want a
45:34
Speaker 1: lot of people around, You want to separate any possible
45:37
Speaker 1: or potential witnesses, and you don't want a mass of
45:40
Speaker 1: people tracking through what might potentially be evidence. So this
45:44
Speaker 1: really wasn't a secure scene at that time. But I'd
45:47
Speaker 1: like to go back to one other thing, and I
45:49
Speaker 1: agree with doctor Bethany when she was talking about some
45:52
Speaker 1: of his erratic behavior. But go back to the night
45:55
Speaker 1: when he was actually interviewed, the Knight of the murders.
45:57
Speaker 1: To me, Alex was not around. He was rather calm.
46:02
Speaker 1: He seemed almost calculating. He thought about everything that he
46:06
Speaker 1: was about to say before he said it. You know,
46:08
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about his behavior. To IRV Brandt joining me
46:13
Speaker 1: world renown travels all over the country. He traveled for
46:17
Speaker 1: the US Marshal Service for DJ international affairs, represent our
46:23
Speaker 1: country and prosecutions all around the world. I'd like to
46:27
Speaker 1: hear your critique of the evidence as we know it
46:29
Speaker 1: so far, and what do you make of the bomb threat. Well,
46:32
Speaker 1: let me start with the bomb threat first. What you
46:34
Speaker 1: said about seeing a deputy sprinting away and possibly having
46:40
Speaker 1: panic in his voice as indicative of someone finding a
46:44
Speaker 1: suspicious package to get a threat phoned in as one thing.
46:49
Speaker 1: Then you do your search of the building as another thing.
46:53
Speaker 1: But to start evacuating a block around the courthouse, not
46:59
Speaker 1: just evacuating the courthouse, but evacuating the people from around
47:02
Speaker 1: the courthouse suggests to me that they may have found
47:08
Speaker 1: either a device or something a suspicious package that may
47:13
Speaker 1: contain a device, you know what, let me tell you
47:16
Speaker 1: what my producer Kelly has come up with. The bomb
47:21
Speaker 1: threat came in right before the testimony of a sled
47:27
Speaker 1: computer crimes agent Brian Hoodac, right before a computer crimes
47:34
Speaker 1: agent Brian Hoodak. It just makes me wonder, what is
47:41
Speaker 1: Hoodac going to say? Ted Williams joining me, Fox contributor,
47:47
Speaker 1: high profile defense attorney, former DC cop. Ted. The bomb
47:52
Speaker 1: threat comes in right before a computer crimes expert is
47:57
Speaker 1: going to test. And I don't mean a theoretical expert
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Speaker 1: that knows all about computers. I mean somebody that tapped
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Speaker 1: into Murdogs probably his phones and his computers. Row. You know, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, that is very suspicious. Who that is
48:15
Speaker 1: definitely going to be able to supply some kind of
48:19
Speaker 1: evidence and show a nexus between the phones and the
48:24
Speaker 1: time or when certain things happen there on that scene.
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Speaker 1: I believe, and I believe that it is suspicious that
48:34
Speaker 1: you would get this bomb threat at this immediate time.
48:37
Speaker 1: But I also believe you are guests just proud of me,
48:41
Speaker 1: and that is that normally when there's a bomb scare,
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Speaker 1: they yeah, they will clear the courthouse and that kind
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Speaker 1: of thing. But the fact that you have a deputy
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Speaker 1: running across the courthouse area there. It leads me to
48:56
Speaker 1: believe that they may be more to this than we
49:00
Speaker 1: know at disimmediate time. So it's interesting. I think that
49:06
Speaker 1: we should pay a lot of attention to the testimony
49:09
Speaker 1: of this sled agent that's about to testify. I think
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Speaker 1: that very well, maybe something that ties Alex closer to
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Speaker 1: that crime scene on the night of all these murders.
49:23
Speaker 1: We have been hearing that. You're seeing footage right there
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Speaker 1: of shares converging on the Colleton County Courthouse as a
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Speaker 1: bomb threat is ferreted out, and that takes a while.
49:34
Speaker 1: You know, they may sweep and find nothing. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I believe completely in bomb detection dogs. They're as powerful
49:44
Speaker 1: or more so than cadaver and drug dogs. So what
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Speaker 1: is happening in the courtroom? Why did it have to
49:53
Speaker 1: be disrupted right now? Is it to take the jury's
49:58
Speaker 1: mind off something? Is it a real bomb threat? Is
50:01
Speaker 1: it to impede progress of the trial? We are hearing
50:05
Speaker 1: the state is culminating its case. That means they're going
50:08
Speaker 1: to wrap and then it'll be showtime for the defense. Now,
50:12
Speaker 1: of course, under our constitution, the defense does not have
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Speaker 1: to present one shred, not one sintilla of evidence. It's
50:19
Speaker 1: not their burden of proof. It's all on the state
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Speaker 1: to prove the case or not. The defense doesn't have
50:24
Speaker 1: to say a peat in the courtroom, but we predict
50:27
Speaker 1: that they will. So what was happening. We learned that
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Speaker 1: Alex Murdog had a complete personality change after the Mallory
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Speaker 1: Beach boat incident when son Paul Now murdered as settlement
50:44
Speaker 1: conversations swirled, a hearing was set for that week, and
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Speaker 1: then Paul dies by gunshot just before the case goes
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Speaker 1: to trial. But we're hearing now that Alex and Murdog's
51:00
Speaker 1: higher disposition had an abrupt change, like a personality transparent
51:05
Speaker 1: plant after the Mallory bench incident. Take a listen to
51:10
Speaker 1: our cut seven after the boat case happened, Did you
51:13
Speaker 1: notice any change in the defendant demeanor around the office
51:17
Speaker 1: and about his work habits. I did. He was more
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Speaker 1: distant even when he was in the office. He was absent.
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Speaker 1: It was hard to He's always been hard to sit
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Speaker 1: still and get answers from, and it was almost impossible
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Speaker 1: for us to reach him, even he was always on
51:35
Speaker 1: his phone. It was consuming his life almost There was
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Speaker 1: a couple of instances where I referred to him as
51:41
Speaker 1: having his ass on his shoulders because that's how I felt.
51:44
Speaker 1: It was disrespectful of me to to, you know, to
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Speaker 1: feel that way and to say that out loud, but
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Speaker 1: that's how I felt, because he just wasn't his self
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Speaker 1: with us anymore. He came in and it was just
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Speaker 1: like yell our names and and just didn't treat us
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Speaker 1: the same way he did. Prior to the boat accident,
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Speaker 1: there was a multi multi million dollar lawsuit filed by
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Speaker 1: that teen girl, Mallory Beaches family against the Murdog's and
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Speaker 1: others for that drunken boat incident where Mallory died because
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Speaker 1: of it, millions of dollars at stake, and not only that,
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Speaker 1: a forensic accountant could very well be involved. And the
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Speaker 1: last thing Murdog wanted anybody to do is look at
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Speaker 1: his finances and find all that theft. I hear you laughing.
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Speaker 1: There's Mallory, all my stars, look at that beautiful girl. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I hear you, Ted Williams, the listen. That's the last
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Speaker 1: thing he wanted. Nancy, you are hundred percent right, or
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Speaker 1: his demeanor change not because he was concerned about Mallory
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Speaker 1: and her death. He was concerned about his pocket book.
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Speaker 1: He was concerned. I believe that he was going to
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Speaker 1: be exposed as the fraud that he was. He was
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Speaker 1: concerned about the exposure of them, of the all of
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Speaker 1: the funds that he has stolen from that law firm,
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Speaker 1: and I think all of those are the things that
53:13
Speaker 1: will win on him. So quite naturally, the finances were
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Speaker 1: important and all important, but I just don't know if
53:24
Speaker 1: I would have let them in in this case to
53:27
Speaker 1: give him and appellete issue when you have other damning
53:31
Speaker 1: evidence like that video at the chemry, Nancy, if I
53:34
Speaker 1: could speak to Moity, go for doctor Bethley. Okay, I
53:40
Speaker 1: think prior to the voting incident, he could just barely
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Speaker 1: handle his addiction, his theft, fueling his lavish lifestyle, fueling
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Speaker 1: his drug purchases. He kind of had a perfect con
53:53
Speaker 1: gooing for quite a length of time, for years. Then
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Speaker 1: with the Mallory Beach death voting, his son Paul drunk
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Speaker 1: driving in this huge multimillion dollar a potential verdict being
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Speaker 1: brought against him. It's not only that his finances would
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Speaker 1: be exposed, but it placed additional pressure on the Khan.
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Speaker 1: So let's say his drug addiction was escalating. Now he
54:20
Speaker 1: had even more bills to cover. I think his interest
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Speaker 1: in his wife and his son actually lessened under the
54:27
Speaker 1: influence of all of these opioids that he was taking,
54:31
Speaker 1: and so the clear solution was to get them out
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Speaker 1: of the way so he didn't have to pay for
54:35
Speaker 1: them anymore. It's more complicated than not wanting his finances exposed.
54:40
Speaker 1: Is he quickly handle the stress of all of this.
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Speaker 1: And think about criminals when they're about to come to
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Speaker 1: court and they have to take accountability for their actions.
54:50
Speaker 1: Do you remember Michael Jackson who got the spider bite
54:52
Speaker 1: and because of that he couldn't show up to court.
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Speaker 1: I mean, they began to fall apart when they have
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Speaker 1: to take responsibility for their actions. And I think that's
55:03
Speaker 1: what was happening. He was becoming extremely a chaotic, disorganized.
55:08
Speaker 1: The reason he became more organized right after his son
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Speaker 1: and wife were murdered is not only did he have
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Speaker 1: to really focus to get himself off the hook that time,
55:20
Speaker 1: but often when people commit homicide of loved one's domestic homicides,
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Speaker 1: there's a relief phase afterwards. They are relieved that those
55:29
Speaker 1: people are out of the way, and that clears their
55:32
Speaker 1: minds temporarily, and that's what could have happened to Alec Murdoch.
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Speaker 1: You know, I was just thinking about what you're saying,
55:38
Speaker 1: or Brandt, Well, everybody on this panel, we're saying murders
55:44
Speaker 1: for a lot less than this. I've sayen a murder
55:46
Speaker 1: over a five dollar drug debt, a murder over a
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Speaker 1: five dollar drug debt, and the dealer had to maintain
55:58
Speaker 1: his cred so he gunned down a young man right
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Speaker 1: in front of his mom, by the way, over a
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Speaker 1: five dollars drug debt. So what I'm saying is then
56:08
Speaker 1: we're talking about millions and millions of dollars standing in
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Speaker 1: the community. The whole works, and in his drug addled mind,
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Speaker 1: maybe he thought, Hey, I kill Paul, no more Mallory
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Speaker 1: beach Case, I kill Maggie, no more divorce, goodbye forensic accounting.
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Speaker 1: I'll keep my job, I'll make a ton of money
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Speaker 1: and Buster and I will be fine. If he even
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Speaker 1: thought about his son, Buster. I mean, doctor Michelle Dupree,
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Speaker 1: you see more murders than any of us in the morgue.
56:40
Speaker 1: I mean, there doesn't have to be a reason for
56:42
Speaker 1: a murder, But here there's about eight million reasons exactly. Nancy,
56:47
Speaker 1: You're right, and you know I've said it time and
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Speaker 1: time again. I am continually amazed at what people who
56:53
Speaker 1: supposedly love each other do to each other, some of
56:56
Speaker 1: the horrific acts, and I think this is just an
56:59
Speaker 1: example of that. Um, It's just it's mind blowing. Really,
57:03
Speaker 1: you know, I'm wondering how the defense can counter any
57:07
Speaker 1: of this. Is there even a remote possibility, Ted Williamson,
57:11
Speaker 1: they would put Alex Murdock on the stand, Nancy, let
57:16
Speaker 1: me try to word. Hell, no, I'm gonna I would
57:21
Speaker 1: be shocked if they put Alex murder on the stand.
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Speaker 1: He would be an open target. Or I believe what
57:31
Speaker 1: they're gonna try to do is to bring their own
57:34
Speaker 1: experts in and that they're gonna try to do whatever
57:38
Speaker 1: they can muck up the water to show that there
57:43
Speaker 1: is reasonable doubt in this case, and that this case
57:46
Speaker 1: is not beyond a reasonable doubt. And so but putting
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Speaker 1: murder Alex on the stand, Hell no, Alex is gonna
57:57
Speaker 1: run from that stand. He's a lawyer. He's not somebody
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Speaker 1: who doesn't know the way of the courtroom and court procedures,
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Speaker 1: and the last thing I believe he wants to do
58:08
Speaker 1: is to be anywhere anywhere on that stand. You're not kidding,
58:12
Speaker 1: And I predict he'll stand up and say, well, you know,
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Speaker 1: I want to testify, I really do, but my lawyer's
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Speaker 1: not letting me, do you know, hold me back. In
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Speaker 1: other words, no way am I getting on the stand
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Speaker 1: and taking a grilling on cross exam. Guys, we're heading
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Speaker 1: back to the courthouse to find out what we can
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Speaker 1: about the bomb threat. Goodbye everybody, Thank you for being
58:35
Speaker 1: with us. Goodbye friend,