Latest / Sports Avenue Twisted Podcast / Episode 47 feat. Greg Zumach - Dissecting the Cubs farm, assesing the Cubs, and the rest of the NL Central

Transcript

Episode 47 feat. Greg Zumach - Dissecting the Cubs farm, assesing the Cubs, and the rest of the NL Central · Sports Avenue Twisted Podcast

• 0:26
  Welcome to another edition of the Sports Ave.
• 0:28
  Twisted podcast. We have a guest in here today.
• 0:32
  He he's known to cover the Cubs prospects and some other MLB
• 0:36
  prospects. Greg Zumak, welcome to the show.
• 0:40
  Just introduce to yourself what on what you do and everything
• 0:43
  else. Hey, everybody, thanks so much.
• 0:46
  I'm excited to kind of come and you know, I generally focus a
• 0:49
  little bit more on like Cubs prospects and, and the MLB
• 0:52
  draft. So this is a big week for me is
• 0:54
  the MLB draft is this Sunday and Monday, but you can find me on
• 0:58
  most of the social media platforms at Ivy futures.
• 1:01
  So that's kind of where I started my my thing.
• 1:04
  I started writing about the Cubs and very, very late 2020,
• 1:08
  believe it or not, you know, so no games were going on and, and
• 1:11
  just put some words online and I don't know, some people really
• 1:15
  liked him, some people didn't. And I'm still sticking around.
• 1:19
  But you know, I, I'd like to talk about Cubs prospects, the
• 1:23
  draft, you know, I, I know you mentioned bringing up a little
• 1:27
  bit of the NL Central teams, which is certainly a, a thing.
• 1:30
  And so are my paths going to cross with some of the other
• 1:33
  prospects in the division as well.
• 1:34
  So but yeah, just just happy to talk to baseball.
• 1:38
  Thanks for joining us today, man.
• 1:40
  We're we're we're real intrigued about the Cubs situation as a
• 1:44
  whole this year with them playing so well and getting off
• 1:47
  to a hot start and having such a great first half.
• 1:51
  So it's it's a perfect time actually to have you on the
• 1:54
  show, especially with their thrashing of the the Cardinals
• 1:58
  last night. So yeah, we're we're just
• 2:01
  excited to talk Cubs prospects with you and get to learn a
• 2:04
  little bit more about the NL Central as a whole.
• 2:07
  So thank. You happy to be here?
• 2:10
  All right, So the first question I want to ask you is I want to
• 2:13
  talk about PCA. He was acquired from the Mets a
• 2:18
  few years ago. I believe he was part of the
• 2:19
  hobby bias deal and and we knew that defensively he was elite,
• 2:26
  like I mean top notch elite stuff.
• 2:29
  And it seems like his bat has caught up to his defense as
• 2:33
  well. So how did you look at it in the
• 2:37
  beginning when you when the Cubs acquired them and then and him
• 2:42
  having a breakout year offensively?
• 2:45
  So I never thought he would do this.
• 2:48
  I, I'll be totally honest, if I said like, Oh yeah, no, I saw
• 2:52
  this coming. That would be a complete lie.
• 2:54
  But I thought he would be pretty good offensively.
• 2:56
  And the reason that I thought that is because just weirdly,
• 3:00
  this is just a weird timing because I was really getting
• 3:02
  going into talking and and writing and evaluating on the
• 3:05
  draft during that 2021 season. There wasn't a ton to talk about
• 3:11
  from a positive success on the MLB side for the Cubs that year.
• 3:15
  And so it it was leading into eventually trading these
• 3:18
  players. But I happen to be digging into
• 3:20
  the draft a lot. And at that time, just out of
• 3:24
  happenstance happened to connect to the couple met scouts and it
• 3:30
  we had already just been talking mostly about drafts people
• 3:34
  because I was picking their brains on something when that
• 3:36
  deal went down, I had those folks like immediately messaged
• 3:42
  me saying that they were kind of crushed that that PCA was
• 3:46
  getting traded. And the reason for that.
• 3:49
  And and I think some of this has has come out recently, but
• 3:52
  they're basically like he's he's changing his swing, like he's
• 3:56
  getting into more power. And they're like, I think that
• 3:59
  he's got some legitimate power. Now this I mean, he's on pace
• 4:03
  for like 40 home run. So, you know, I think that this
• 4:06
  is certainly on the the extreme end of outcomes.
• 4:11
  This is like your 90th, 95th percentile outcome, so to speak.
• 4:16
  That's like a way scouts kind of talk about, you know, how what's
• 4:20
  our range of, of paths that we could walk.
• 4:23
  This is on the very high end. So I never thought we'd get to
• 4:26
  this, but I did think he was going to get some power.
• 4:28
  And I I fought very hard that offseason to say I made him like
• 4:33
  my #2 prospect in the Cub system.
• 4:35
  And I got a lot of chippy comments saying that that was
• 4:39
  completely crazy and he's just a contact hitter.
• 4:43
  And that just wasn't the case. Now, it wasn't all linear.
• 4:46
  There were definitely a lot of steps you need to take to get to
• 4:48
  this point. But he really clicked with
• 4:52
  several of the Cubs hitting coaches.
• 4:53
  But I definitely want to call out in particular, like Rachel
• 4:57
  Folden, who's at AAA, but then also Dustin Kelly at at in the
• 5:02
  Major League side, who has done in some amazing work within the
• 5:05
  Cub system, really got PCA to make some improvements in the
• 5:10
  second-half of 2024. And he's caught fire this year.
• 5:15
  And yes, there's some issues with Chase, but I think overall
• 5:20
  when we look at him as as a player, even just offensively,
• 5:24
  what he's done has been amazing. Owen Casey, I want to talk about
• 5:29
  him a little bit because he's considered one of the top
• 5:31
  prospects in your system. He's he's a Canadian boy
• 5:36
  actually from, from Burlington ON, shout out to Burlington,
• 5:40
  which is about 20 minutes from me.
• 5:42
  So it's pretty cool that he's that he's thriving and doing so
• 5:46
  well. But yeah, with Kyle Tucker an
• 5:50
  impending free agent if they do not resign Kyle Tucker with the
• 5:56
  opio of being so stacked is is what what are the plans for Owen
• 6:00
  Casey? Are there plans to try and
• 6:04
  resign Tucker, keep them? And if they do, what do they do
• 6:08
  with Owen Casey? Is could they trade him or or is
• 6:12
  this just like kind of like a backup plan if they don't resign
• 6:16
  Tucker? What's the situation with Owen?
• 6:19
  Yeah. So you know, a couple of things
• 6:21
  in there. I I think plan A is they're,
• 6:23
  they want to resign Kyle Tucker from immediately around that
• 6:29
  trade and actually even a little bit before Kyle Tucker was a guy
• 6:33
  that when you talk to folks kind of in the organization, you
• 6:37
  know, who, if anybody, the Cubs would even make sense to offer a
• 6:43
  mega deal. Not like who will we do or
• 6:45
  anything like that. Players with his type of batting
• 6:49
  profile, Somebody that walks more than they strike out,
• 6:52
  somebody that hits for power, somebody that is really
• 6:55
  incredible play discipline, somebody that plays more than
• 6:59
  just first base. You know, so you're, you're
• 7:00
  talking about at least like a corner outfield or a second base
• 7:04
  or third base type of profile. Those are the, that was the type
• 7:08
  of profile. And so I think from, from even
• 7:12
  day zero before this trade or, you know, day -25 or something
• 7:18
  like that, Kyle Tucker's been the type of player that they
• 7:21
  wanted to get. And the fact that it happened,
• 7:24
  the fact that everything lined up sounds like Kyle Tucker's
• 7:27
  really having a blast in Chicago.
• 7:29
  Now. Does that mean he's going to
• 7:30
  turn down 600 million from a team to to, you know, for less
• 7:35
  money from the Cubs? Probably not.
• 7:37
  But I think that they've put themselves in a really good spot
• 7:41
  and I do believe that there is some strong interest in trying
• 7:44
  to get it. Does that mean that's going to
• 7:46
  happen before he reaches free agency?
• 7:48
  I don't know. I, I wish I could say yes.
• 7:51
  I think at some point you get so close to free agency that
• 7:54
  there's so many factors, right? Like I've never turned down 400
• 7:58
  million that you, you probably just get down there and, and get
• 8:02
  into that opportunity. I have, I've never turned down
• 8:05
  400 million, but I'm open to offers.
• 8:07
  So you have my, you have my social media hit me up at any
• 8:11
  time. But it it's just one of those
• 8:13
  things where, yes, I think they really will try to get it.
• 8:17
  I actually, and so here's the weird thing about this.
• 8:19
  So I love Owen Casey. I followed him since the Udarvis
• 8:22
  trade. He was really kind of the most
• 8:24
  successful part of that deal, which in all fairness was a
• 8:30
  salary down. The Cubs ownership group had
• 8:33
  kind of laid it out that there's X amount of money that you need
• 8:37
  to figure out how to move. And what the Cubs front office
• 8:42
  did is decide, you know, they we could non tender Kris Bryant.
• 8:47
  We could not pick up Anthony Rizzo's extension option.
• 8:52
  We could trade you Darvish and get value back.
• 8:55
  And ultimately that's where they went with it.
• 8:57
  And they also decided to part ways of Kyle Schwarber, which is
• 8:59
  another contentious factor with Cub fan.
• 9:02
  But but you know, Owen Casey was was a big part of that deal and
• 9:08
  he's done extremely well. The thing is that I actually
• 9:11
  think the Kyle Tucker decision is independent of that.
• 9:14
  Now they can hold on to Owen Casey.
• 9:16
  They don't have to trade him even if they extend Kyle Tucker.
• 9:20
  But it's my understanding that he that Casey was pretty
• 9:26
  available in trade talks this past winter.
• 9:29
  And that's without Kyle Tucker being extended, obviously.
• 9:32
  So it's my understanding that that he will likely be a common
• 9:37
  name that is talked about this spring or the summer.
• 9:41
  And it would really not shock me to see him in a deal.
• 9:45
  I I think this is one of those situations where love owned
• 9:48
  Casey. Think he's done a lot of really
• 9:51
  good work. He's really leveled up even this
• 9:53
  year. It's not just a hot streak.
• 9:55
  He's made tangible improvements. I think it's one of those things
• 9:58
  where it's like, you know what, sometimes it's also just good
• 10:01
  for that player to get an opportunity somewhere and really
• 10:04
  run with it. We're seeing that in Chicago
• 10:07
  with Michael Bush, who just wasn't going to get those
• 10:10
  opportunities in in LA. Now that's truly blocked.
• 10:13
  He was blocked by like 3 Hall of Farmers and an All Star.
• 10:17
  Like that is right and truly blocked there.
• 10:21
  There's no path there, right? But now, you know, you're seeing
• 10:24
  what he's doing with an opportunity and I think both
• 10:26
  teams would would happily take the the end result of that deal.
• 10:29
  So, you know, you're kind of hoping for something similar
• 10:31
  with Casey where if that's the guy they decide to move, you
• 10:36
  know it. It's just good for him and good
• 10:37
  for the organization. Kate Horan got called up earlier
• 10:43
  this year. He was drafted from the Cubs
• 10:45
  about 3 years ago and they visioned him as a frontline
• 10:49
  starting pitcher. He's been having his ups and
• 10:52
  downs and I get it, it's his rookie year.
• 10:54
  Like how do you look at him as pitcher long term?
• 10:58
  Yeah, so he had a really rough start in Houston recently and I
• 11:02
  had people like, it really caught me off guard because I
• 11:07
  mean, that's kind of what I expect with young pitching.
• 11:10
  I mean, you're just going to have blow ups.
• 11:11
  And I think that there's this misconception probably in every
• 11:16
  fan base. But like I'll just just simply
• 11:18
  point out the one that I see the most with Cubs where it's like
• 11:21
  you see guys in their organization, in their division.
• 11:25
  Jacob Mesirowski, who actually just had a recent blow up.
• 11:29
  But Paul schemes is, is the guy that you kind of you see and and
• 11:33
  you're like, well, this guy never really has blow UPS.
• 11:35
  And it's like, yeah, I understand that guy is
• 11:37
  generational. Like that is not the same thing.
• 11:41
  And and you can still be a frontline guy, but I definitely
• 11:45
  had some folks that were like, I can't believe it, Like you got
• 11:48
  to send them down. And it's like, no, this is the
• 11:50
  the cadence. This is that is not a pun that I
• 11:53
  was intending with Kade and cadence.
• 11:55
  But like, this is what you see. These are the ups and downs of
• 11:58
  young pitching. I really like what I've seen.
• 12:00
  He's not finished trap. He's not ready completely.
• 12:04
  He's ready for the major leagues, but he's not like where
• 12:07
  he should be totally. And that's completely expected.
• 12:11
  Craig Counsel oversaw the development of Corbin Burns, who
• 12:16
  had a lot of ups and downs in his early career.
• 12:19
  He ever saw the development of Brandon Woodruff, Freddy
• 12:22
  Peralta. These guys have a lot of ups and
• 12:26
  downs and it's going to kind of take things locking in.
• 12:29
  But you can see elements of what Kate is really good at, which is
• 12:34
  actually showing off a really deep pitch mix that he didn't
• 12:37
  have a few years ago. He was very much fastball,
• 12:41
  slider, sweeper, slider in in when he was selected 7th overall
• 12:47
  in college and then when he a lot of time in the minors early
• 12:52
  and he's embraced the change up and he's actually done a little
• 12:56
  bit with the curve and he's mixed in the sinker and these
• 12:59
  are just weapons that he didn't completely have.
• 13:02
  So I really like what I've seen from Kate Horton.
• 13:04
  It's not finished. There's going to be probably
• 13:06
  some more ups and downs, but I mean, if the playoffs started
• 13:09
  tomorrow, I think he's starting Game 3 for me.
• 13:12
  Like if if I was the one making the call.
• 13:16
  So who would you consider the top prospect in the Cubs system?
• 13:20
  I believe Baseball America has Moises Ballesteros as one and
• 13:25
  Owen Casey is is pipelines #1 so who would you consider to be
• 13:31
  that that top tier prospect in your system right now?
• 13:35
  Yeah. So this is something that was
• 13:37
  like really contentious for me in the winter, but I'm still
• 13:41
  going to kind of carry it over, which is, you know, Moises
• 13:44
  Ballesteros hasn't completely locked in.
• 13:47
  I think that's a special bat and it takes a lot for somebody to
• 13:55
  be so valuable with the bat that you don't care where they hit, I
• 14:00
  mean, where they play defensively.
• 14:01
  And I think Moises has that potential.
• 14:05
  He's so incredibly young and we'll show you qualities that
• 14:10
  are incredibly rare. And so to me, Moise's Filoceros
• 14:14
  is still my #1 prospect. Jackson Wiggins possibly #2 I
• 14:21
  haven't quite locked in completely, but Jackson Wiggins,
• 14:26
  who is a right-handed pitcher out of Arkansas, the Cubs took
• 14:29
  him after he had Tommy John surgery.
• 14:33
  So he didn't even throw his his draft eligible year.
• 14:37
  But they saw him in the fall and we're like, this guy's amazing.
• 14:42
  And they drafted him anyway, paid him over slot in the second
• 14:46
  round, which surprised a lot of people.
• 14:49
  And it, you know, is a bit of a slow burn.
• 14:52
  He looks great. Like he's the guy that when you
• 14:55
  have other people, and I'm not huge into the rumor business,
• 14:58
  it's just not what I spent a lot of my time doing.
• 15:02
  But I have some folks that from work in the that work with other
• 15:05
  teams or kind of connect. Sometimes we talk about draft
• 15:08
  and they'll they'll mention they're like, Oh yeah, we would
• 15:10
  love weight. I think that's the guy that
• 15:13
  other teams would likely want in in deal.
• 15:16
  So, you know, those are the three that I would really
• 15:19
  highlight with, with Jefferson real house probably being the
• 15:22
  4th. So they it's it's not as strong
• 15:25
  of a system as it was. That used to be kind of an
• 15:28
  embarrassment of riches, but you know, that's what happens.
• 15:30
  Since then, a few of those guys are doing pretty well at the
• 15:32
  Major League level. Is Jackson Wiggins the guy that
• 15:37
  has the command issues? But his stuff is just so damn
• 15:41
  good. Yeah, he's improved well.
• 15:44
  And so we, I mean, we have to kind of specify control versus
• 15:46
  command. He used to have control issues
• 15:48
  too. And I think he's he's taken
• 15:52
  steps to improve. The control is definitely
• 15:54
  improved. The command has taken steps to
• 15:56
  improvement. And yeah, this stuff is so
• 15:59
  lively that he can get away with it.
• 16:01
  He can get away with some misses, middle, middle, but he's
• 16:05
  having less of those. And that's a huge step for him
• 16:09
  because we were at a point, especially his first season in
• 16:15
  in college, where I mean, the misses were bad.
• 16:19
  The the end zone was bad pretty much every day.
• 16:22
  Like it was all over the place. And clearly what they saw in
• 16:27
  that fall beforehand was a completely different arm.
• 16:30
  And they were right. So I'm hoping it it keeps
• 16:33
  continuing. But yeah, he's definitely taking
• 16:35
  some big steps forward. I want to talk a bit about Kevin
• 16:40
  Alcantra that he's, I believe the 6th best prospect in the Cub
• 16:45
  system right now. He was acquired in the Anthony
• 16:49
  Rizzo trade a few years ago as well.
• 16:51
  And looking at him, he's known for hitting for power, right?
• 16:57
  So right now he's in, I believe in Iowa right now, right?
• 17:00
  So in the AAA affiliates, where did you fit in the plans of this
• 17:05
  team? Does he get an opportunity to
• 17:07
  get called up later this year if even though right now there's no
• 17:11
  opportunity, as you can see there's a log jam in the
• 17:13
  outfield? You know he can because he can
• 17:16
  play all three positions. He's a pretty good center
• 17:19
  fielder, actually. And if he was in another
• 17:23
  organization, which is certainly possible, he could be August
• 17:26
  1st. But if he was in another
• 17:28
  organization, they'd be talking about him likely as their center
• 17:31
  fielder in the future with the Cubs.
• 17:33
  Clearly PCA is on another level. And you know, when you've got a
• 17:37
  guy who's on pace like in an 8 or 9 win season, like that is a
• 17:42
  whole other level than almost anything.
• 17:45
  But I, you know, they definitely, I think he'd be
• 17:49
  viewed differently in another organization.
• 17:50
  He's on a bit of a heater right now and some elements of it are
• 17:54
  good. But unlike Casey, I don't think
• 17:56
  he's taken, I don't think he's made a tangible change so much
• 18:01
  as he's kind of just seeing the ball really well here.
• 18:04
  And he's still having some issues with sliders.
• 18:08
  That's a book that's going to be out on him and he's going to
• 18:11
  need to adapt. I think Kevin O Contra in
• 18:14
  another organization gets 405 hundred plate appearances at the
• 18:18
  Major League level each year and I think by year 2 or even 3 is
• 18:23
  putting up above average offensive production.
• 18:26
  He just is a bit of a slower burn and that may or may not be
• 18:31
  the right place for him is within the Cubs organization so
• 18:35
  he would be another guy that I wouldn't be surprised if they
• 18:38
  traded him again. One of those like might just be
• 18:41
  better for the player situation, but he's definitely on a heater
• 18:45
  right now. I think he's a good player.
• 18:46
  He's certainly a top 100 caliber prospect.
• 18:50
  This is a guy you don't just toss into a deal.
• 18:53
  This is a guy that has value. But I do think it's one of those
• 18:58
  where like if you had to pick, I'd probably keep KC over a
• 19:01
  Contra. But I could see either moved,
• 19:05
  but also I could see how Contra at the Major League level,
• 19:07
  potentially PCA, I mean, knock on wood, doesn't have an injury
• 19:12
  or anything. But even if you just need to
• 19:14
  give him a little bit of a break, Kevin O Contra can play
• 19:17
  all three positions. So you can come up and kind of
• 19:20
  give all of your outfielders a little bit of a break.
• 19:24
  Tell us a bit about Matt Shaw and the season he's had.
• 19:26
  And I believe he made the roster out of spring training.
• 19:30
  Do you believe that that was, you know, a mistake?
• 19:32
  Do you believe that helped him? Do you believe they hurt him?
• 19:35
  Geez, just kind of had a little bit of a rough go this season,
• 19:39
  you know, in his rookie season. Of course there's going to be
• 19:42
  ups and downs, but what's his ceiling going forward And and do
• 19:46
  you feel that he's the third baseman of the future for the
• 19:49
  Cubs? You know, I still think he's the
• 19:51
  third baseman of the future. I, I don't think it was a
• 19:54
  mistake to put him on the roster in Japan because they had to
• 19:57
  make the decision for Japan, which was earlier.
• 19:59
  It was last time, it was a bit rushed, but there were some
• 20:03
  other qualities related to like prospect, promotion, incentive
• 20:07
  that needed to be taken into place.
• 20:09
  That needed to take be taken into account.
• 20:11
  I mean, and so, you know, I think with the available
• 20:14
  information, it was fine. In hindsight, you could probably
• 20:16
  say like he wasn't ready. But so here's the thing with
• 20:19
  Matt Shaw, he needed to make some swing changes that didn't
• 20:25
  unless he failed, were probably not going to be ones that he was
• 20:31
  going to really mentally like he would probably he's a coachable
• 20:34
  guy. But as far as having the like
• 20:37
  intention of saying yes, I need to do this, it was probably not
• 20:41
  going to happen unless he failed.
• 20:44
  And at the AAA level, he wasn't failing.
• 20:48
  You know, he wasn't failing last year.
• 20:50
  I if he's just down in AAA, just beating the bejesus out of the
• 20:55
  ball, I don't know, he's probably going to be like, it's
• 20:58
  working. I'm not changing anything.
• 21:00
  And so there's an element of you kind of need to let a guy fail a
• 21:05
  little bit to make some changes. Now defensively, holy cow, this
• 21:09
  guy is good. And I will eat crow on this.
• 21:12
  I not Pete crow, but eat crow on it.
• 21:15
  I was in Omaha watching him at the Big 10 Tournament.
• 21:20
  And I'm sorry, defensively, I wasn't convinced.
• 21:25
  He wasn't even an infield. He threw from a Victoria could
• 21:28
  only throw from a very over the top motion, which is not
• 21:33
  something that works very well at third base.
• 21:35
  It you can tolerate it at second base and it just just didn't
• 21:40
  look viable. I I didn't think athletic got
• 21:42
  for sure what he's done in the minor leagues.
• 21:46
  He took that to heart. I doubt he saw anything I wrote,
• 21:50
  but he definitely knew that feedback that there were going
• 21:52
  to be some challenges. He rocks at third base like holy
• 21:57
  cow, never thought it was possible that he would be this
• 22:00
  good. Thought he could maybe get there
• 22:02
  and stick to like this guy is an asset on the field, third base
• 22:07
  and that's going to help him so much.
• 22:10
  Because that was the thing that Craig counsel said last year
• 22:13
  where with Miguel Omaya, who's their catcher, he's on the
• 22:16
  injured list right now. And Oblique and PCA, who
• 22:19
  obviously we talked about is that with those young guys, he
• 22:22
  said, hey, you know what, just play defense and we'll sort out
• 22:26
  the offense later. And I think that's a big reason
• 22:29
  why Matt Shaw is still playing a bunch.
• 22:31
  At some point, there's got to be a bit of a like season on the
• 22:34
  line. We need to figure out the bat
• 22:37
  situation. But at least right now, I think
• 22:39
  what he's doing is adding value in some way to the team.
• 22:47
  I want to talk about some of the pitching depth.
• 22:49
  I know you talked about Jackson Wiggins already and you went
• 22:52
  into detail. He's a sizable guy, other guys
• 22:55
  that I want to talk about. And if if I'm missing names, you
• 22:57
  can mention about Brandon Bridsell.
• 23:00
  Bridsell, Bridsell, I believe, Yeah, Jack Neely was from the
• 23:04
  Mark Leiter trade, of course, and Ryan Gallagher.
• 23:07
  Those are the names that I saw that were on the list.
• 23:10
  If there's any other names you could talk about all the guys in
• 23:13
  in depth and detail. You know, I think that those are
• 23:16
  probably the ones that we'd really want to mention and
• 23:18
  Birdsell did a lot of really good work.
• 23:20
  He's just coming back from an injury right now and you know,
• 23:25
  it's probably in a tricky spot with, I believe he's going to be
• 23:28
  rule 5 eligible this year. But by the way, great kid.
• 23:31
  I've, I've interacted with him a few times.
• 23:34
  Fantastic, super nice. I, I think he's got a really
• 23:39
  bright future in the majors. He's a guy that how he builds up
• 23:45
  and what he does for this year will be really, really
• 23:46
  interesting. May not impact the Major League
• 23:48
  team this year, but may have MLB implications next year.
• 23:53
  But really solid and a good pitch mix.
• 23:57
  Kind of a unique delivery that works for him and his stuff kind
• 24:01
  of leveled up last year. And so I, you know, definitely
• 24:04
  put himself on on the map there. We'll see how he comes back from
• 24:08
  injury. But but he's throwing right now.
• 24:11
  He's doing fairly well. A guy to watch in the
• 24:12
  second-half, you know, a non prospect, but somebody that is
• 24:17
  also coming back from injury just to note is Javier Assad.
• 24:22
  He's again had some some more success in the Major League.
• 24:24
  That's like another depth arm. But then within the system when
• 24:27
  we talk about some other guys, you know, Jack Neely is reliever
• 24:31
  only. He came in the mark letter
• 24:34
  junior deal like you mentioned with with the Yankees.
• 24:39
  It it hasn't really clicked for him this year.
• 24:41
  Unfortunately. There's been some injury stuff.
• 24:43
  There's been just just command hasn't been successful.
• 24:49
  The fastball just hasn't been playable.
• 24:51
  So he's throwing like 60 to 70% sliders, which the slider is
• 24:54
  nasty, but it it it just hasn't quite clicked like I thought it
• 24:58
  would, to be honest. So maybe a little bit of a
• 25:00
  disappointing year for him with relievers.
• 25:03
  It only takes one thing to click and then all of a sudden a guy
• 25:07
  can be lights out. I mean the Cubs are seeing this
• 25:10
  with Daniel Palencia. Daniel Palencia was not in a
• 25:13
  he's talked about this. I, I would never share something
• 25:15
  like this if publicly, if, if it wasn't already out, but he just
• 25:19
  wasn't in a good headspace last year.
• 25:21
  And I and he talked about it and he went out of his way to take a
• 25:26
  lot of steps. Now he's been nasty.
• 25:28
  He's nasty back in the bullpen sometimes.
• 25:32
  And I'm not saying that Jack Neely is not a good headspace,
• 25:34
  but like it only takes one thing to click with some of these guys
• 25:38
  with nasty stuff. So, you know, Neely hasn't been
• 25:41
  very successful. That's unfortunate.
• 25:44
  Ryan Gallagher is a guy that I, I think you know, could be on
• 25:48
  the move this year. He was a six round draft pick
• 25:51
  out of UCSB, which is a college pitching group that is known for
• 25:57
  taking guys with, you know, some interesting stuff or whatever,
• 26:01
  but but very good control and command.
• 26:04
  And then when they get to the big, get to the pro level,
• 26:08
  A-Team will take their velocity up in a couple matches and all
• 26:11
  of a sudden, like, oh, yeah, they're really, they're really
• 26:14
  good. And, you know, we saw that with
• 26:16
  Shane Bieber. We've seen that a little bit
• 26:18
  with Michael Mcgreevy. You know, Tyler Bremner is
• 26:21
  another name that is key in the draft that teams are kind of
• 26:24
  having that exact conversation of, which is great control,
• 26:28
  great command, you know, do we get that below up a little bit?
• 26:32
  Do we take the stuff up a little?
• 26:33
  Frank Gallagher's is interesting and forces way up a couple
• 26:38
  levels this year. Teams are kind of asking about
• 26:42
  him a little bit. Not as much as Wiggins, not in
• 26:44
  place of Wiggins, but wouldn't shock me to see him in a in a
• 26:48
  deal somewhere probably. Let's talk about the rotation a
• 26:53
  little bit. Matt Boyd Shout out to Matt Boyd
• 26:57
  for his first All Star appearance at 34.
• 27:00
  Former Blue Jays prospect. He got the win last night
• 27:03
  through 5 shutout innings was great.
• 27:05
  He's been fantastic for you guys.
• 27:08
  You know, you have Jameson Tyone's kind of having a little
• 27:11
  bounce back season himself. Colin Ray's been great for you
• 27:16
  show to him and not a when he's out there.
• 27:17
  He's he's been great, fantastic. So you talked about Kate Horton
• 27:22
  already and I believe Ben Brown is in the minor leagues.
• 27:26
  So just tell us about some of the the the rotation pieces that
• 27:30
  have been great for you guys this season.
• 27:33
  Yeah, I mean, Matt Boyd is like almost single handedly saved
• 27:36
  this team. He's just absolute amazing
• 27:42
  signing. I I got a little grief because I
• 27:44
  really like that signing in in the winter.
• 27:46
  And I had people just railing on me online about how they were
• 27:50
  cheapening out. And it was just like, you know,
• 27:52
  I look, I'm not going to advocate that the Cubs shouldn't
• 27:56
  spend more money. Matt Boyd showed you last year
• 27:59
  that he was a playoff caliber starter, a very good one.
• 28:04
  His his concern or the concerns with him is the fact that he he
• 28:09
  didn't know how many innings he was going to be out there for at
• 28:12
  least at the early stages. He's looked incredible.
• 28:16
  And you hope that that can obviously continue.
• 28:20
  But at least what he's done has been awesome.
• 28:22
  James and Tyrone, you know, popped the calf the other day in
• 28:26
  the weight room. Unfortunately, this is all
• 28:27
  public now. And so that kind of surprised
• 28:30
  some folks and say he's out for about a month, but he's been
• 28:32
  pretty good. I mean, everything you said was
• 28:34
  was right. This is very recent.
• 28:36
  And I was getting those like messages, like I was scouting
• 28:41
  this high school showcase game and I'm just like, oh, no,
• 28:45
  that's not good. So, you know, everything you
• 28:48
  said is right, though. He's had a pretty quality season
• 28:51
  in a in a year that the Cubs definitely needed it and should
• 28:53
  be back. It's not an arm injury or
• 28:55
  anything, but something he'll need to work through.
• 28:58
  Shota, yeah, has looked good when he's been out there.
• 29:01
  That's a guy that you feel pretty, pretty good about
• 29:04
  starting a playoff game. Kate Horton.
• 29:06
  Obviously Ben Brown's an interesting dude because he'll
• 29:09
  show you stuff in in some outing that is unbelievable.
• 29:14
  And I think there was an outing, I was actually in a wedding at
• 29:17
  this time, so I wasn't even watching it that I had people
• 29:19
  message. I had to put my phone on silent
• 29:21
  because they're just like Ben Brown is, you know, crushing it.
• 29:25
  And I I think it was against the Reds and he was just dumb.
• 29:31
  So, you know, he'll show you the tools and the talent that is so
• 29:36
  tantalizing Overall, like the peripherals look really good.
• 29:40
  The results aren't great. Again, this is kind of one of
• 29:43
  those like young pitchers situations.
• 29:46
  The the problem with Ben Brown is the fact the fastball kind of
• 29:49
  sucks and it's got velocity, but it's it's not very good.
• 29:54
  The knuckle curve is insane. It's one of the best pitches in
• 29:57
  baseball and he can throw it a bunch of times.
• 30:01
  The issue is, is that his fastball command isn't great in
• 30:05
  the fastball shape isn't good. So like the movement of it isn't
• 30:09
  isn't great. The other problem is that he's
• 30:12
  like a heavy, what we call a pronator.
• 30:14
  So from a pitching standpoint, you kind of, this is way
• 30:17
  oversimplifying, but like you pronate or supinate.
• 30:20
  So basically, do you get behind the ball or do you get to the
• 30:22
  side of the ball a little bit? And there's pros and cons on
• 30:24
  each one. But he is a heavy pronator, so
• 30:27
  he really can't get to the side of the ball.
• 30:30
  So I had somebody that was just like, if he was just teaching a
• 30:31
  sweeper and it's like buddy, they can teach him a sweeper.
• 30:35
  They would he doesn't really need it anyway, but at the
• 30:38
  knuckle curve, but it figuring out what that secret sauce for
• 30:42
  him is going to be. It's been tricky.
• 30:45
  So I think he ends up the year more in the bullpen and then you
• 30:50
  kind of refigure out what he looks like next year.
• 30:53
  You know, I don't think his days are starting are over.
• 30:55
  He's still starting in the in the minors right now, but he's
• 30:58
  just kind of one of those like they reached critical mass where
• 31:01
  they had to decide something and and you know, ultimately went
• 31:07
  with the pitchers. They got Shota and Minaga came
• 31:09
  back and they felt like Colin Ray was going to give them a
• 31:12
  better a better chance on a on a day by day basis.
• 31:16
  And Ray's been very good. He was a good signing.
• 31:18
  I didn't really like that one in the winter, but it it clicked
• 31:21
  and he's been been great depth. The next question I want to ask
• 31:26
  you is some of the prospects that were in the Cub system that
• 31:30
  ended up being traded to other teams to try to improve this
• 31:34
  team. Guys like Michael Bush was
• 31:37
  acquired with Yancey Almonte for Zyre Hope Jackson versus
• 31:41
  obviously the Tucker traded. Cam Smith was the centerpiece of
• 31:45
  that deal and and I think DJ Hurts was part of a deal for Yo
• 31:50
  Hendrik Penango. For Candelario, no candelario,
• 31:54
  sorry. Sorry TJ hurts for.
• 31:56
  Candelario, sorry, I'm getting mixed up.
• 31:59
  So talk about some of those players, and do you think there
• 32:04
  was a prospect that the Cubs regret?
• 32:10
  Regret probably none of the ones that you mentioned.
• 32:15
  So there are some people that still rail on the Zaire Hope,
• 32:20
  Michael Bush Jackson Paris deal. I think that deal made tons of
• 32:24
  sense for both teams. I0 regrets.
• 32:28
  It's working out beautifully. The Zaire Hope wasn't a throw
• 32:32
  in. People wanted to say that he
• 32:36
  wasn't a throw in, that he was a throw in.
• 32:38
  He wasn't a throw in. There were people in the Dodgers
• 32:43
  organization, I might be revealing too much, who they
• 32:46
  wanted. They were very interested in
• 32:49
  Zaire Hope. I'll say that in the draft.
• 32:52
  The Cubs drafted a little bit earlier in that round and got it
• 32:57
  and they rectified that mistake, that winner like they are.
• 33:01
  It's not a mistake, but you know, they they got it.
• 33:04
  They got desired Hope so Like none of them I would say were
• 33:07
  mistakes or miss evaluations or anything like that where I think
• 33:13
  you could make an argument on a couple of them.
• 33:19
  You know, you mentioned Penango. I think Yohandrick Penango might
• 33:24
  have been a missed eval when they traded him for Nate
• 33:28
  Pearson. That was a guy that I think
• 33:32
  honestly, he just didn't really click with the group, the
• 33:39
  development staff, and he really clicked with Toronto.
• 33:43
  And so maybe that's just related to that, you know, like he just
• 33:48
  went to a different situation and it and it really clicked.
• 33:51
  It's some of these like smaller pieces, Alfonso Rosario, you
• 33:56
  know, as a guy that he's definitely had his ups and downs
• 33:59
  this year in Cleveland. He went in the Eli Morgan trade.
• 34:03
  You know, that's probably one that some folks would would say,
• 34:07
  man, we maybe we shouldn't have taken that swing.
• 34:11
  And then I'm trying to think Ty Johnson in the Isaac Predis
• 34:17
  deal. So in the deal that led up to
• 34:20
  flipping Predis in in the Kyle Tucker trade was a secondary
• 34:29
  part of that deal was Ty Johnson, who is a right-handed
• 34:31
  pitcher. And honestly, I think the Rays
• 34:34
  just out scouted the Cubs internal evaluations of Ty
• 34:38
  Johnson. I I, I think that one's probably
• 34:41
  a you look back on and say, Oh yeah, we didn't evaluate him
• 34:47
  correctly. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
• 34:49
  That's me just projecting. But I would say, yeah, that one
• 34:55
  that when I I could see that being mistake.
• 34:57
  So the bigger deals, no, I actually think they've done that
• 35:00
  pretty well. Those deals are designed to
• 35:03
  hurt. A Kyle Tucker trade is supposed
• 35:05
  to hurt. You know, if you want to get a
• 35:09
  guy like Michael Bush with who is MLB ready at a position of
• 35:12
  need for you, that's going to kind of hurt.
• 35:14
  And you know, the Candelario trade was a was a buy deal and
• 35:20
  it's kind of going to hurt. Those buy deals hurt.
• 35:21
  So I, I think those things feel fine actually, but it's the
• 35:26
  smaller pieces that, or I shouldn't say pieces, these are
• 35:29
  people, but the smaller parts of deals that that maybe they've,
• 35:37
  you know, maybe they've missed a couple.
• 35:41
  So what are the farm systems in the end of Central would you say
• 35:45
  are the most successful when it comes to to building prospects?
• 35:50
  Yeah, that's a really interesting question.
• 35:53
  I think you have to kind of go to different aspects of it.
• 35:56
  So like for instance, the the Brewers do an amazing job of
• 36:01
  taking arms that need a lot of development steps and then
• 36:06
  getting them to the point of being really, really good and
• 36:10
  adding velocity, adding stuff. And so the Brewers, to me, stand
• 36:14
  out for that, like really high up there.
• 36:19
  The Pirates do a very, you know, do a really interesting job of
• 36:22
  collecting some good players. And I think they've made some
• 36:28
  good steps with pitching development recently.
• 36:32
  I don't want to look at like Paul Skeens and say, see, the
• 36:35
  Pirates did so well. I think it's actually some of
• 36:38
  these other guys like Bubba Chandler Jones, you know, I feel
• 36:45
  like Braxton Ashcroft has been pretty good.
• 36:49
  They've they've had like some of these other guys.
• 36:52
  There was somebody that they took, oh, I wanted him in like
• 36:55
  the compound. Thomas Harrington.
• 36:57
  Do they? They took Thomas Harrington,
• 36:59
  right? That sound, right?
• 37:00
  Yeah, I got that. I got the name right then.
• 37:03
  But like, that's a guy that I think they've done some pretty
• 37:05
  good steps with. And so like the Pirates, I think
• 37:08
  have done really well there. And then they've taken maybe
• 37:12
  some hitters that maybe have had some development steps and
• 37:19
  they've they've been a little bit more inconsistent on that.
• 37:21
  But I think they've done a good job on Connor Griffin.
• 37:24
  And so like the Pirates, I think deserve a lot of credit.
• 37:26
  The Reds have done some pretty good work recently with
• 37:28
  pitchers. So they would probably be the
• 37:30
  second in the division that I would say of like maximizing
• 37:34
  pitch development. So I think they've done a really
• 37:38
  good job with that. I can't say from a hitting side
• 37:41
  that I've been too impressed with what they've done.
• 37:43
  They've had some successes, just kind of a mixed bag there.
• 37:47
  But there's there's not really teams that I would look at and
• 37:51
  say like, God, they're just bad at pitch, at development.
• 37:55
  Because even the Cardinals I don't think have done a great
• 37:57
  job, though they have brought in the right people under Heimbloom
• 38:03
  to make some of these good steps.
• 38:05
  But I think it's going to be a bit more of a slower burn over
• 38:08
  the next few years. And, and we might be looking at
• 38:11
  it, unfortunately for Cubs fans, we might be looking at this in
• 38:14
  two or three years going like, man, they're building that
• 38:17
  machine again. And so I that's kind of where I
• 38:20
  see the the Cardinals. So I so let me ask you this then
• 38:27
  we talked about the Pirates a little bit here, but I like to
• 38:30
  elaborate a little bit. And they haven't been to the
• 38:32
  playoffs during the Ben Sherington era.
• 38:35
  And a lot has to do with ownership, of course.
• 38:37
  And like you said, Paul skiing number one pick that was can't
• 38:40
  miss. But like they drafted Tamar
• 38:43
  Johnson, Hunter Barco, I think he's been struggling a little
• 38:46
  bit. They drafted Henry Davis, he's
• 38:47
  been a disappointment. Nick Gonzalez has another one.
• 38:51
  Like why is their philosophies not working?
• 38:53
  And how come they they haven't been relevant even till this
• 38:57
  point? You know, I, I mean, it's
• 39:01
  oversimplifying it, but I think it's not making investments to
• 39:04
  Major League level because you can live with some of these
• 39:08
  prospects having some securities, securities route.
• 39:13
  So, you know, just a top upside down, you know, in and out kind
• 39:18
  of routes up and down successes. You know, Nick Gonzalez made
• 39:23
  some major leagues in a in a draft class that frankly, if you
• 39:27
  look at 2020, it was a disaster. That draft class was a disaster.
• 39:32
  The Royals would gladly have Nick Gonzalez over ace Lacy.
• 39:39
  You know, and I'm not commenting that you shouldn't like expect
• 39:43
  more because because you should. But you know, he at least made
• 39:46
  it the majors. It's it's not fully clicked yet.
• 39:50
  Maybe the story is not completely sold.
• 39:53
  I think there needs to be a bigger investment.
• 39:55
  I actually liked the Henry Davis pick.
• 40:00
  And, and in many ways, you have to remember that the Henry Davis
• 40:04
  pick led to a guy like Bubba Chandler.
• 40:07
  They really loaded up in in that draft because they went under
• 40:10
  slot on him. Now, could they have gone under
• 40:12
  slot with Marcelo Meyer? Maybe I, I won't say I know all
• 40:17
  the answers to that, but like theoretically they could have.
• 40:20
  So, you know, I would say it's definitely more of a mixed bag,
• 40:23
  but there's there's got to be more investments to Major League
• 40:26
  level. I mean, yes, you signed Mitch
• 40:29
  Keller. I think that's good.
• 40:30
  But now there's already talks about, well, maybe you flip them
• 40:34
  and it's like, yeah, Mitch Keller is not a pretty
• 40:36
  affordable deal. Like let's keep Mitch Keller.
• 40:41
  Let's you have this guy be your #4 because you have Paul schemes
• 40:46
  and you know, you might have Bubba Chandler and Jared Jones.
• 40:50
  Injury wise, that's going to be an issue.
• 40:51
  But it keeps building some of those things.
• 40:54
  Tamar Johnson is an interesting guy.
• 40:56
  I was literally just talking with folks about him last night.
• 40:59
  And I think that that was still in an era where we were looking
• 41:03
  at batted ball data, the high school level, little bit
• 41:07
  different. Like there were talks about how
• 41:09
  he had this just amazing hit tool, can't miss.
• 41:14
  And then it's like, well, I mean, but if you look at the
• 41:15
  numbers, you know, he was good. Not great from a contact in his
• 41:20
  own perspective. Like it was good, slightly above
• 41:23
  average compared to his peers, but it wasn't wasn't like
• 41:26
  amazing. And and so it's just like a miss
• 41:30
  eval industry wide. I mean, this isn't like a high
• 41:33
  risk. This is like industry wide of
• 41:35
  evaluating some of those guys. And, and really he's more of
• 41:38
  like a power guy. And and so I think that it it's
• 41:42
  just kind of fitting all these pieces into different buckets.
• 41:46
  So, yeah, you know, he probably hasn't lived up to the
• 41:48
  expectations that were talked about at the time of the draft.
• 41:52
  I I think he ends up settling in OK when all is said and done.
• 41:55
  But but you're right that, you know, it's not it's not looked
• 41:59
  completely great. I like what the Pirates are
• 42:01
  building from purely a player development standpoint.
• 42:05
  And yeah, like Paul Schemes does a lot of the heavy lifting
• 42:07
  there, but also they've done some good work.
• 42:09
  Paul Schemes like I, I think he he is generational, but it's
• 42:13
  been a good marriage between the Pirates organization and him
• 42:17
  from a player development standpoint.
• 42:20
  And I hope he sticks around there.
• 42:22
  I mean, I kind of don't from the Cubs perspective, but I hope he
• 42:25
  sticks. Around there, he's.
• 42:26
  Fun. And I and I definitely don't
• 42:28
  want him on the Dodgers or the Mets, so or the Yankees or
• 42:32
  anything. And you get to watch them pitch
• 42:33
  more, you know, I mean. It's.
• 42:34
  Yeah, I mean, it's against your team, but at least you get to
• 42:37
  watch them, right? Like I would take my kids to a
• 42:40
  Paul skins team even if they weren't playing the Cubs, right?
• 42:42
  Like that is a star power in its purest form.
• 42:46
  But also I do like what they've built on some of these other
• 42:50
  guys. And, and it's just it's going to
• 42:52
  require more investment at the Major League level, which, you
• 42:55
  know, it's always easier said than done, But you know, I mean,
• 42:58
  right now, like Brian Reynolds hasn't been great this year, but
• 43:02
  he's been good in previous years.
• 43:04
  And now it's talk of like, well, now you should move him.
• 43:06
  It's like, well, you know, keep building around these guys
• 43:10
  because I think that there's some opportunities out there.
• 43:13
  It is going to probably take some more successes still.
• 43:16
  But but hey, I think, I think it's close.
• 43:20
  So who are some other position players around the end of
• 43:22
  Central that you feel just not position players in general that
• 43:27
  you feel that could be really, really good with?
• 43:30
  With guys like He's Just Made and Cam Collier on the Reds, you
• 43:33
  got JJ Weatherholt, St. Louis, Jefferson Cuero.
• 43:38
  There's just a number of great prospects in that division.
• 43:41
  So who do you feel that could be really, really good down the
• 43:44
  road? Yeah, so I mean, I think, you
• 43:47
  know, a guy like Cam Collier I've loved since the draft.
• 43:51
  I really, really like him. I knew he was going to take a
• 43:53
  little bit longer to develop, but I really like and and that's
• 43:57
  it. That's a guy that I think we got
• 43:59
  to highlight here because he came out of the draft as a 17
• 44:02
  year old and you know, what he's shown is it's just it's going to
• 44:07
  be more development. But gosh, I mean, you know, I
• 44:10
  just really liked him. I really, really, really liked
• 44:13
  college. You know, Maid maid is
• 44:16
  interesting as well. You know, some of these some of
• 44:19
  these guys knew in the the thing really frustrate me with with,
• 44:24
  you know, everybody in the division.
• 44:26
  But you know, JJ Weatherholtz looks really good.
• 44:30
  I think he's in AAA soon, if not now, you know, soon to be or
• 44:36
  immediately like maybe today up in up in AAA.
• 44:39
  That's going to be a guy that I had in the 11 talks, you know,
• 44:44
  in last year's draft and and lasted to to them.
• 44:47
  So, you know, I think he's I think he's really awesome.
• 44:50
  But otherwise, there's some really talented players in in
• 44:54
  the the end of Central, Definitely, for sure.
• 44:58
  To wrap up this episode, so we're going to ask you the final
• 45:01
  question and like you said, the MLB draft is coming up.
• 45:04
  The Cubs have the 17th pick in this year's draft.
• 45:08
  What kind of player are the Cubs targeting if you believe that
• 45:13
  they have to get do? Would they go best player
• 45:16
  available or they would go a certain need?
• 45:20
  Definitely not need, but I think that they're targeting more like
• 45:23
  college pitching and and high school hitting just with where
• 45:26
  the draft might sit for them. And so, you know, definitely
• 45:31
  best player available like this is a this is a scouting
• 45:34
  department that has done that. But you know, a few guys that I
• 45:37
  think just kind of could be in that range could be like Tyler
• 45:41
  Bremner. So I was talking about him
• 45:43
  earlier from UCSB Catholic Xavier Nines, who's a third
• 45:48
  baseman out in Washington on the prep side.
• 45:51
  So the high school side, maybe case in Cunningham, who's like a
• 45:56
  middle infielder down in Texas, again, another another high
• 45:58
  schooler. You know, there could be some
• 46:02
  other guys in those mixed like those would those would be some
• 46:04
  names that I would kind of watch out for.
• 46:06
  I definitely don't think they're going to go need, but if they
• 46:09
  needed to do a tiebreaker, wouldn't surprise me to see
• 46:12
  college arm. Basically, if the right college
• 46:15
  arm is there, that's probably where I think they're going to
• 46:18
  go. But not so much need is like we
• 46:20
  really feel like we can develop this demograph.
• 46:24
  Greg, we appreciate you being here.
• 46:27
  I know time's been the enemy. Great insight, great
• 46:31
  information, especially if you want to be a Cubs friend.
• 46:34
  This will be a must listen episode.
• 46:36
  Greg, where can we find you in social media and everywhere
• 46:38
  else? Yeah, you can find me at Ivy
• 46:41
  features pretty much all the the ones Twitter X, whatever we're
• 46:44
  calling it Blue Sky Instagram, you know, and then I I I write
• 46:50
  and I connect with people at the 1060 W all sold out podcast or a
• 46:55
  discord. So we have a lot of fun, a lot
• 46:57
  of fun with that one. Thanks man for joining us today.
• 47:02
  Like Rocky said, lots of great information, great insight.
• 47:06
  We went deep on a lot of topics to do with the Cubs and and
• 47:09
  everything else you know, central.
• 47:11
  So thanks. And I know your time is precious
• 47:14
  right now and, and, and you got to run, but we appreciate you
• 47:17
  joining us. Yeah, it's my pleasure, guys.
• 47:21
  Thanks so much. All right, we will place the
• 47:23
  description below where you can find Greg Zumak, but till next
• 47:26
  time, take care, be kind to each other.
• 47:28
  Signing off for the Sports Ave. Twisted podcast on Monday, July
• 47:32
  7th, 2025.