Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Molestation, bullying at school. Protect your child, 'Don't Be A Victim'

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Molestation, bullying at school. Protect your child, 'Don't Be A Victim' · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. A lot of times when
0:11
Speaker 1: I dropped the twins at school and I drive away,
0:15
Speaker 1: I look back at the school and I wonder what's
0:19
Speaker 1: going on behind those walls. Do I trust them? Some
0:26
Speaker 1: parents have not been as lucky as I have been,
0:31
Speaker 1: their children molested by school teachers. I want to start
0:44
Speaker 1: by talking to you about a teen boy, his name
0:49
Speaker 1: Corbin Madison. Listen to this. Taniel Whittaker, an elementary school
0:54
Speaker 1: teacher at the Wells Elementary School, was arrested on multiple
0:57
Speaker 1: accounts of sexual conduct was students to this point. As
1:01
Speaker 1: a result of the investigation, we found two students that
1:05
Speaker 1: have been involved if we think that they're possibly more so.
1:09
Speaker 1: But she was arrested on eight counts sexual conduct between
1:13
Speaker 1: certain employees of schools and pupils. Her bail is one
1:19
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand dollars. She's last I checked, she
1:23
Speaker 1: was currently in custody here. So we would ask anybody
1:26
Speaker 1: that has any further information, any other possible victims, or
1:30
Speaker 1: anybody has any information to contact our detective division. You
1:33
Speaker 1: are hearing the under Sheriff of Elko County, Nevada runs
1:37
Speaker 1: SUP That was kar in v reporting that was just
1:41
Speaker 1: the beginning of the story. Because after the shame and
1:45
Speaker 1: humiliation of being one of the teachers sex victims, this
1:51
Speaker 1: team boy, with his life in front of him, committed suicide.
1:57
Speaker 1: Let that so can't just for a moment. This humiliated
2:02
Speaker 1: team took his own life after his teacher, his female
2:07
Speaker 1: teacher now serving twenty years for sex with miners, so
2:12
Speaker 1: embarrassed he took his own life just turning eighteen, great grades,
2:21
Speaker 1: football team, happy family. He's dead. Nothing can change that,
2:28
Speaker 1: no matter how many years she does. Behind bars with
2:32
Speaker 1: me an all star panel to break it down and
2:34
Speaker 1: put it back together again. Joining me from New York.
2:37
Speaker 1: Renowned attorney Jason Oceans, private investigator with Crispin's Special Investigations,
2:44
Speaker 1: Robbie Crispin, the founder of the company the Medical Examiner
2:49
Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida. Doctor Tim Gallagher. You
2:53
Speaker 1: can find him at pathcaremed dot com. Sierra Gillespie Crime
2:57
Speaker 1: online dot com. Investigative reporter. Doctor Roy H. Lubitt, Psychiatrists
3:03
Speaker 1: Joining me out of New York. His specialty is child psychiatry.
3:08
Speaker 1: He has testified in over three hundred cases and has
3:12
Speaker 1: served as expert and a number of criminal and civil
3:16
Speaker 1: sex assault cases at roy lube dot com. But first
3:20
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to a special guest in joining me.
3:23
Speaker 1: His name is Owen LaFave. After many, many years, I
3:30
Speaker 1: consider Oha not just a colleague but a friend. Owen,
3:37
Speaker 1: your wife, Debla fheve absolutely your former wife, Debla fheve
3:45
Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. Just she almost looked like a painting or
3:52
Speaker 1: a photograph of touched up you. Her demeanor was so
3:58
Speaker 1: kind and so joyful, bubbly, full of life. Yet she
4:04
Speaker 1: turned out to be a child molester of students, and
4:10
Speaker 1: it shot no one more then it shot you and
4:16
Speaker 1: what seemed to be a happy marriage. My point is,
4:20
Speaker 1: you know, the other night, Owen, we had open night,
4:23
Speaker 1: open open school night, such as it is for the teachers,
4:26
Speaker 1: because everybody's on zoom, you know. And I looked at
4:30
Speaker 1: the teachers, Owen, and they're perfectly wonderful. Teachers have great experience,
4:35
Speaker 1: they're they're pretty, they're smart, they're enthusiastic. Every time I
4:41
Speaker 1: look at a teacher, I can't help but think of
4:43
Speaker 1: deb lea Faith. Do you remember when the charges, when
4:49
Speaker 1: the investigation first happened and you first found out about it.
4:52
Speaker 1: I bet you couldn't believe it. No, Nancy, And actually
4:55
Speaker 1: it's hard to believe it's been fifteen or sixteen years
4:58
Speaker 1: since that point, but it's something that I all like
5:00
Speaker 1: it was almost yesterday. But you know, truth be told,
5:04
Speaker 1: I knew that something was going on, So I think
5:06
Speaker 1: it's important for everybody, especially as a parent, but you know,
5:12
Speaker 1: in this case a spouse, to really trust your intuition.
5:15
Speaker 1: But never ever did did I think it was would
5:18
Speaker 1: have involved a student. I assumed that she was having
5:21
Speaker 1: an affair with another one of our teachers or her colleagues,
5:24
Speaker 1: but in this case, it was one of her students.
5:26
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think you said it well. It was
5:29
Speaker 1: just absolutely shocked, and I mean owen you as a
5:34
Speaker 1: rule now never discuss debl fhaves case or your life
5:40
Speaker 1: at that time. And I can't tell you how grateful
5:45
Speaker 1: I am for you speaking out because I was telling
5:48
Speaker 1: you one of the reasons, oh I was speaking out
5:51
Speaker 1: today is because of this. Don't be a victim fighting
5:55
Speaker 1: back against America's crime wave. You know, I thought I
6:00
Speaker 1: knew it all ohen la Faye until I had children,
6:03
Speaker 1: right and now the thought of just handing them over
6:08
Speaker 1: to a teacher that could molest them. It's just I
6:14
Speaker 1: don't have words for it. And I go through many
6:18
Speaker 1: scenarios of cases I investigated, tried and covered in the book,
6:23
Speaker 1: and tell parents what I think they need to know,
6:26
Speaker 1: tips to help them keep their children safe at school,
6:31
Speaker 1: and many other circumstances. But what always was so amazing
6:35
Speaker 1: to me with deb La Fay, your then wife, was
6:39
Speaker 1: how she had everybody hoodwinked. I mean, I'm looking at
6:43
Speaker 1: a picture of her right now, she still looks like
6:45
Speaker 1: a cover a cover girl. What was her personality, you know,
6:52
Speaker 1: very much like you described earlier. I mean she was
6:54
Speaker 1: very jobial, very pleasant, very well liked by her colleagues
7:00
Speaker 1: and her students and within the community. And so oftentimes
7:04
Speaker 1: you will find, as you were mentioning, as you look
7:07
Speaker 1: at people, unfortunately, sometimes there is the wolf in chief's clothing,
7:12
Speaker 1: if you will, these people are when I say, these people,
7:16
Speaker 1: excuse me, but you know, predators have the appearance of
7:19
Speaker 1: being outstanding. Citizens, are giving, they're altruistic, they're very generous,
7:23
Speaker 1: they have positions of trust, and sometimes they get in
7:26
Speaker 1: those positions to trust to have access to two children
7:30
Speaker 1: and future victims. And sometimes they're just optimistic. But they're
7:34
Speaker 1: opportunistic rather but yeah, they develop trust and power, and
7:38
Speaker 1: you never really know people's true intention, which is why
7:40
Speaker 1: we just need to be builgent as parents. You know
7:43
Speaker 1: what's amazing, Owen, is that as well as you thought
7:48
Speaker 1: you knew your wife, deb La Fay, you had no
7:52
Speaker 1: idea the possibility that she could be molesting a student.
7:57
Speaker 1: Takesten to our friends at NBC. She's a top contender
8:01
Speaker 1: for the title of America's most notorious school teacher. In
8:04
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, Deborah Beasley Lafaye was arrested at
8:08
Speaker 1: the home of a middle school student, accused of having
8:11
Speaker 1: sex with him at her apartment, in her car, in
8:14
Speaker 1: her classroom. She was twenty three, he was fourteen. Now,
8:19
Speaker 1: to a shocking story, a Florida teacher is facing possible
8:22
Speaker 1: prison time. She wasn't the first teacher or the last
8:26
Speaker 1: to be busted for a liaison with an underage student,
8:29
Speaker 1: but her case created an international sensation. You know the
8:33
Speaker 1: reality of this. I mean, it's a big news story
8:37
Speaker 1: when it happened, and cases like this happened all the time.
8:41
Speaker 1: I'm sad to report, but today we're talking about a
8:44
Speaker 1: young boy, Corbin Madison who was so embarrassed and humiliated
8:50
Speaker 1: after it became public that his female teacher to Neil Whittaker,
8:55
Speaker 1: thirty years older than him, was having sex with him,
8:59
Speaker 1: he hung himself. The boy is dead because of a
9:04
Speaker 1: teacher's molestation. Crime stories With Nancy Grace, we are talking
9:20
Speaker 1: about how to keep your child safe in all situations,
9:25
Speaker 1: even at school. Two years of research, investigation, and writing
9:31
Speaker 1: went into Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's
9:36
Speaker 1: crime Wave, my proceeds going to National Center for Missing
9:41
Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. I immediately in the book Tackle Your
9:47
Speaker 1: Child Safe at School and joining me as a special
9:51
Speaker 1: guest who I now consider to be a friend, Owen
9:54
Speaker 1: la Faye married to wouldn't you say, Owen that this
9:59
Speaker 1: case if your then wife, deb La Fave, was really
10:03
Speaker 1: one of the first cases like this to hit the media.
10:07
Speaker 1: I mean, it had been happening before, but this case
10:11
Speaker 1: saturated the media and people became aware that teachers were
10:16
Speaker 1: molesting students. I guess nobody really wanted to think about
10:20
Speaker 1: it before deb La Fave happened. Yeah, I think, And
10:23
Speaker 1: so you mentioned earlier, Nancy, this is this is something
10:25
Speaker 1: that I've chose to because it's been so long, and
10:28
Speaker 1: I've been remarried and have a high profile professional career
10:32
Speaker 1: in the finance industry. It's something that I wanted to
10:34
Speaker 1: shy away from. But your book has really inspired me,
10:36
Speaker 1: and the story of Corvin Madison also inspired me to
10:40
Speaker 1: speak out. And you know, I think at the time
10:42
Speaker 1: when my personal situation, it was really when the twenty
10:45
Speaker 1: four hour media had taken place, and she's very attractive,
10:48
Speaker 1: and I think it was very polarizing because people often
10:51
Speaker 1: don't in our culture, don't believe boys are victims, and
10:55
Speaker 1: you know, I think in this instance you could see
10:56
Speaker 1: that that's absolutely the a case, and they are victims,
10:59
Speaker 1: and maybe some of their responses are a little different
11:02
Speaker 1: than than female victims, but it has long term consequences
11:06
Speaker 1: and in this case, a lot of shame and guilt. Unfortunately,
11:09
Speaker 1: we lost a special boy, and it's you know, the
11:13
Speaker 1: reason I'm speaking out is to know just further support
11:16
Speaker 1: you and hoping to prevent something like that from happening
11:18
Speaker 1: to someone else. You know, owen for you to deviate
11:22
Speaker 1: from your rule now that you never speak about the
11:25
Speaker 1: double Fave case and you are actually coming forward and
11:30
Speaker 1: rehashing all the h double l you went through at
11:33
Speaker 1: the time, the blaming, the shaming. I'm so grateful and
11:40
Speaker 1: it's it's stunning to me that this boy, Corbin Madison,
11:46
Speaker 1: took his life in humiliation, being ribbed about it every day,
11:52
Speaker 1: jokes about having sex with teacher. He just couldn't take
11:56
Speaker 1: it anymore. His parents did not see it coming. I
11:59
Speaker 1: want to go to doctor Roy H. Lubet, psychiatrists joining
12:03
Speaker 1: us out of New York. You can find them at
12:05
Speaker 1: Roy Lubet lubit dot com. Doctor Lubitt I will a
12:11
Speaker 1: favor hit on an incredible point that very often people
12:16
Speaker 1: don't see boys as victims, but they are. What effect
12:22
Speaker 1: does a molestation by a teacher have on a child?
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Speaker 1: A person that everybody seems to like and look up
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Speaker 1: to and trust, and there's a child knowing what's happening.
12:35
Speaker 1: There's a power differential between a teacher and the students
12:41
Speaker 1: and the child. It is going to be under pressure
12:48
Speaker 1: and going to be controlled in a way that prevents
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Speaker 1: an equal relationship, and that has a negative effect at
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Speaker 1: the moment, and it has a negative affect in terms
12:58
Speaker 1: of future relationships. In the midst of such a relationship,
13:05
Speaker 1: you know, children adolescence begin to hide much of their
13:09
Speaker 1: life from their friends, from their parents, and that isolates
13:13
Speaker 1: them from their community and cuts them off, and that
13:17
Speaker 1: has a big impact on them emotionally. And there's a
13:23
Speaker 1: very high instance of problems with anxiety. You know. You
13:27
Speaker 1: said that things that happen amongst their peers, their friends
13:31
Speaker 1: at school end up sadly defining them for the rest
13:36
Speaker 1: of their lives. It shapes the way they see the world.
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Speaker 1: This young boy, Corbin Madison, committed suicide after his female
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Speaker 1: teacher molested him. With me. Now, in addition to doctor
13:51
Speaker 1: lubit is another expert who learned from the School of
13:55
Speaker 1: hard knocks. It's the husband of deb La Faye. Her
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Speaker 1: case made the headlines and brought the teacher sex crime
14:05
Speaker 1: to the forefront. Take a listen to this. They've been
14:08
Speaker 1: married less than a year, but in June of two
14:10
Speaker 1: thousand and four, Owen la Fay began to have a
14:13
Speaker 1: terrible suspicion about his lovely wife, Deborah. He said something
14:18
Speaker 1: along the lines of I think Debbie's having an affair
14:22
Speaker 1: to my mom, and he thought it was with one
14:25
Speaker 1: of my fellow teachers. He never dreamed it was with
14:29
Speaker 1: one of year students never but that's exactly what happened.
14:33
Speaker 1: Deborah La Fave, a twenty three year old reading teacher,
14:36
Speaker 1: was having an affair with a fourteen year old student
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Speaker 1: at her middle school in a suburb of Tampa. She'd
14:42
Speaker 1: already performed oral sex on him. Now ten days later,
14:45
Speaker 1: June fourteenth, she invited him to help her clean her
14:48
Speaker 1: classroom and crossed yet another line. That was the first
14:53
Speaker 1: time you had intercourse with him at school. Yes, school
14:56
Speaker 1: was out, and Deborah grew even more reckless. The next day,
15:00
Speaker 1: she drove the student to o'calla one hundred miles north
15:03
Speaker 1: to visit his fifteen year old cousin. They picked up
15:07
Speaker 1: the cousin at his home, Deborah gave him the car keys,
15:10
Speaker 1: then she climbed in back and had sex with the
15:15
Speaker 1: fourteen year old. You know, to Owen La Fay, I know,
15:21
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it doesn't hurt you this many
15:24
Speaker 1: years later, but at the time it had to be
15:28
Speaker 1: heartrending and people even blaming you because you didn't know
15:33
Speaker 1: what was happening. But my point is when you look
15:36
Speaker 1: at Deborah La Fay, or you look at Tanil Whitaker,
15:39
Speaker 1: or you look at Tad Cummings, a male teacher that
15:43
Speaker 1: actually kidnapped his child sex victim a student. They seem
15:49
Speaker 1: so friendly, so gregarious, so upbeat, you would never suspect.
15:55
Speaker 1: And then oh, when you hear stories about for instance,
15:59
Speaker 1: Corbyn Madison, the teen boy that committed suicide after his
16:03
Speaker 1: teacher molested him, the implications are so widespread. Owen was
16:11
Speaker 1: there any way do you look back and think, wow,
16:15
Speaker 1: here's a red flag. There's a red flag or did
16:17
Speaker 1: she have you fool too? You know, Nancy had happened
16:20
Speaker 1: so suddenly. Um, and it really did. But no, they
16:24
Speaker 1: were they were red red flags. But like I said,
16:27
Speaker 1: and like actually she said in the interview, Um really
16:30
Speaker 1: had no idea. It's just it just wasn't fathomable. Um,
16:34
Speaker 1: you know, especially in maybe a little more unusual at
16:37
Speaker 1: the time. Anyway, it seemed doing with you know, a
16:40
Speaker 1: woman predator and a boy victim and in her pace.
16:44
Speaker 1: But it really was out of the blue. And you know,
16:48
Speaker 1: like like you said, I mean, it was really amazing.
16:50
Speaker 1: How you know the you know, I will say, the
16:53
Speaker 1: media largely, but um, you know wants to point blame
16:57
Speaker 1: at you know, either me for not being a husband
17:00
Speaker 1: or you know me for not knowing sooner and being
17:03
Speaker 1: able to notify somebody, But it's it's oftentimes the people
17:06
Speaker 1: that are closest to us are the ones that you know,
17:10
Speaker 1: we truly don't know what's going on. Well, you know
17:13
Speaker 1: what I want to follow up on that. Owen La
17:15
Speaker 1: Faye to Robbie Crispin, former police officer now private investigated
17:21
Speaker 1: with Crispin Special Investigations at Crispin Investigations dot Com. You
17:26
Speaker 1: do a ton of private eye work on all sorts
17:30
Speaker 1: of cases, but also in domestic disputes. In other words,
17:36
Speaker 1: this was divorcing that one and they start having them followed,
17:41
Speaker 1: or you're asked to dig up information crime stories with
17:56
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace guys recovering this book which took two years
18:03
Speaker 1: in the making for you to help protect yourself and
18:08
Speaker 1: your children. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's
18:12
Speaker 1: crime wave. To Robbie Crispin, We're talking about teachers molesting
18:17
Speaker 1: their students and it happens every day. You just heard
18:22
Speaker 1: Owen La Favee, whose wife deb La fave was one
18:24
Speaker 1: of the first bomb show cases of teacher molesting student. Robbie,
18:32
Speaker 1: you heard him say, it's the one's closest to you
18:36
Speaker 1: and your line of work, Robbie Crispin. Isn't it true
18:39
Speaker 1: that spouses they don't want to know? You know what,
18:43
Speaker 1: my husband the night before last. You know how I
18:46
Speaker 1: remember what night it was because last night we had
18:48
Speaker 1: fish sticks, okay, and it was the night before that.
18:52
Speaker 1: So Robbie, he says, Hey, I'm meeting Gary for dinner,
18:58
Speaker 1: and you know I'll be home right if that, I'm like, great,
19:01
Speaker 1: go goodbye. And I never thought twice about it. And
19:04
Speaker 1: you know what, Robbie, I don't want to think twice
19:07
Speaker 1: about it. I don't want to have to say, wow,
19:09
Speaker 1: I wonder if he's really having dinner? What if he's
19:12
Speaker 1: really having nachos somewhere? You don't want to know, so
19:17
Speaker 1: you don't bother to find out, and you intentionally choose
19:22
Speaker 1: to see the world with rose colored glasses. I do.
19:24
Speaker 1: When it comes to my children in my marriage, I
19:26
Speaker 1: think they're all perfect. You know. The sad part about
19:28
Speaker 1: all this is, Nancy is a lot of people don't
19:31
Speaker 1: want to upset the apple cart. They're living a great life.
19:34
Speaker 1: They don't want to know, They don't want to know
19:36
Speaker 1: the truth. And each one of these cases that you're
19:39
Speaker 1: talking about. Had somebody stepped forward put surveillance on somebody
19:45
Speaker 1: in each one of these, every single step along the
19:47
Speaker 1: way in that investigation, some type of a surveillance would
19:50
Speaker 1: have caught Wi La Paid driving a fourteen year old
19:54
Speaker 1: one hundred miles away. Someone would have caught the sex
19:57
Speaker 1: and hold on just a moment earlier. One referred to
20:00
Speaker 1: this as an affair with a student. To Jason Oceans,
20:06
Speaker 1: veteran defense attorney, this is not an affair. That's not
20:10
Speaker 1: what this is. These standments are protected because you know,
20:14
Speaker 1: under the law, Jason oshans a child this age, and
20:17
Speaker 1: I call him a child because under the law they are.
20:19
Speaker 1: They can't buy a house, they can't buy a car,
20:21
Speaker 1: they can't buy liquor or tobacco because they don't have
20:24
Speaker 1: the mental capacity to do that. So if I hear
20:27
Speaker 1: you say affair with a teacher again, you know what.
20:31
Speaker 1: I've never threatened to you a physical force, but I
20:33
Speaker 1: can do a knuckle sandwich, no mayo, and you know
20:36
Speaker 1: I mean it, Oceans, because this is not an affair.
20:39
Speaker 1: This is second constation. I object to the to the
20:42
Speaker 1: use of that term. It's a it's a crime. U
20:46
Speaker 1: with a real victim and real consequences. Um so there
20:51
Speaker 1: are you know, I think mister Owen referred to it earlier,
20:56
Speaker 1: you know, with the cachet, you know, the first time
21:00
Speaker 1: being a you know, younger of you know woman and
21:03
Speaker 1: the boys those are boys And this is this is
21:08
Speaker 1: not this is uh, you know, predatory opportunists, relative to
21:14
Speaker 1: your book, opportunists taking the opportunity to do something, crimes
21:19
Speaker 1: of opportunity. Not everything is planned specifically, but but reacting
21:25
Speaker 1: to an opportunity. And what can we as parents do
21:30
Speaker 1: about I mean, Jason notions you've just gotten your second
21:33
Speaker 1: to college, but you were on them like a cheap
21:37
Speaker 1: suit the whole way. I remember from pre K to twelve.
21:42
Speaker 1: Listen to this, Oceans drop in unannounced when the teachers
21:46
Speaker 1: see my beat up minivan coming into that parking lot
21:49
Speaker 1: and they know there's going to be a spot check, Uh,
21:52
Speaker 1: drop in unannounced. Know your teachers check out them online
21:57
Speaker 1: their Insta or Facebook may just surprise you. And that
22:02
Speaker 1: is not a violation of their right to privacy, is it,
22:05
Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, I can look them up, not at all.
22:08
Speaker 1: It's it's it's all public information and I support that.
22:12
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you can't be an ostrich with
22:14
Speaker 1: your head in the sand. You gotta you gotta be alert.
22:17
Speaker 1: You gotta be a hawk. Uh. You know, quick glances
22:20
Speaker 1: behind you all the time, no difference than those same
22:23
Speaker 1: type of furtive glances when you're walking to make sure
22:27
Speaker 1: that you're safe to the insides of what's you know
22:31
Speaker 1: all around you? Um, your your students, uh, they're teachers,
22:38
Speaker 1: your children. Be alert, Always be alert. Don't be paranoid,
22:42
Speaker 1: Just be alert. I'm going to go with paranoid. Thank
22:45
Speaker 1: you very much. Guys, we're talking about don't be a
22:48
Speaker 1: victim finding back against America's crime wave. Joining me special guests,
22:53
Speaker 1: ohen la fay. Here is another idea. If you're a
22:57
Speaker 1: child is singled out for special treatment, or asked to
23:00
Speaker 1: stay after school, taken on a private trip, or given
23:04
Speaker 1: a gift by the teacher, that's a bad sign. I
23:09
Speaker 1: bring out. My son had an awesome teacher who gave
23:12
Speaker 1: him extra books. He loved it. He even has a
23:15
Speaker 1: key chain of a lighthouse that she gave him about
23:18
Speaker 1: one of the books. Lucy had a teacher who took
23:20
Speaker 1: extra time to rehearse piano with her in overtime in
23:25
Speaker 1: their private time I'm not talking about that. I'm talking
23:28
Speaker 1: about like deb La Faye driving the student, you know,
23:33
Speaker 1: an hour away and seeing them outside of school. That's
23:39
Speaker 1: a bad sign. Owen. That is a bad sign, Nancy.
23:44
Speaker 1: But in my defense, you know, at the time, I
23:47
Speaker 1: thought she was working in you know, not driving across
23:51
Speaker 1: the great state of Florida and you know, in other
23:55
Speaker 1: things and events when you know she was out supporting
23:58
Speaker 1: her students. The you know, the story and the narrative
24:03
Speaker 1: all made sense, but you know, in for that reason,
24:06
Speaker 1: I would just warn everybody, you know, if anything seems suspicious,
24:10
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to your child, you need the question,
24:13
Speaker 1: you need to follow up. You need to be diligent.
24:15
Speaker 1: I love the ostrogen and hawk analogy. I mean, that's
24:18
Speaker 1: exactly it apparent what you need to do. Well. Put guys,
24:22
Speaker 1: it goes from and is so mischaracterized that this is
24:26
Speaker 1: every schoolboy's dream to have sex with the teacher. It's not.
24:32
Speaker 1: It's not at all. Take a listen to our friends.
24:37
Speaker 1: This is Jeff Zander, the Elko County School superintendent. Did
24:42
Speaker 1: anybody in the school district know about this? Jeff? These allegations, well,
24:47
Speaker 1: from the mistry standpoint, we were notified back in October
24:50
Speaker 1: of some allegations. And so that being said, we've actually
24:53
Speaker 1: completed three different investigations on the situation, and wells over
24:58
Speaker 1: the best, you know, nine months. That being said, as
25:02
Speaker 1: Lawrence stated earlier, nobody really wanted to testify or give
25:06
Speaker 1: a statement that said yes, this happened, okay, And so
25:11
Speaker 1: so that the Sheriff's office has been in a full
25:13
Speaker 1: investigation that we participated or tried to help facilitate with
25:17
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office. I want to go to Sierra Gillespie
25:21
Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter that was the Elko
25:24
Speaker 1: County School superintendent describing resistance met by witnesses they tried
25:32
Speaker 1: to speak to there at Wells Elementary. I'm no one
25:38
Speaker 1: seemingly wanted to testify, Sierra Gillespie, How did that molestation occur?
25:45
Speaker 1: What was the m of the teacher? And so what happened?
25:49
Speaker 1: This teacher was an elementary school teacher and she was
25:54
Speaker 1: abusing students who were at a nearby high school. So
25:58
Speaker 1: basically they would come and be like aids for her classroom,
26:02
Speaker 1: helping around with like maybe like reading buddies or things
26:06
Speaker 1: like that, so that they could get extra credit. And
26:09
Speaker 1: so how it happened was she had this special like
26:13
Speaker 1: reading corner in her classroom that you could not see
26:17
Speaker 1: from the door, like in the hallway, and you couldn't
26:20
Speaker 1: see from the windows looking outside. So she had something
26:23
Speaker 1: called her quote unquote special hours, and that is when
26:28
Speaker 1: these situations would happen. Actually, one of the students there
26:32
Speaker 1: were four in total who were abused. But one of
26:35
Speaker 1: the students initially resisted her, and she threatened to mark
26:39
Speaker 1: him absence, say that he did not show up. You're
26:41
Speaker 1: not going to get credit for this course if you
26:43
Speaker 1: don't engage in these sexual acts with me. How was
26:48
Speaker 1: it finally uncovered? So actually there are several situations that
26:53
Speaker 1: happened actually the nearby high school principle where these students
26:58
Speaker 1: were from the older students who were being abused. He
27:01
Speaker 1: had six reports on this. Whoa WHOA wait a minute,
27:05
Speaker 1: six reports. Listen to this. We started getting reports from
27:11
Speaker 1: people quite some time ago. A lot of them were
27:13
Speaker 1: very reluctant to come forward for a variety of different reasons.
27:17
Speaker 1: So we did some unconventional investigation. We did a lot
27:22
Speaker 1: of surveillance and some things like that. Was able to
27:25
Speaker 1: gather a lot of information, which then led us to
27:29
Speaker 1: circle around and finally we got down to the arrest
27:32
Speaker 1: Yesterday crime stories with Nancy Grace. Don't be a victim
27:48
Speaker 1: fighting back against America's crime wave. Protect your children at
27:53
Speaker 1: school with me an all star panel with PhDs and
28:00
Speaker 1: from the School of Hard Knocks, protecting your child at
28:04
Speaker 1: school for instance. And there you just heard. All these
28:07
Speaker 1: complaints were happening, but nothing was being done. The molestation continued,
28:13
Speaker 1: and the boy committed suicide when people started mocking him
28:17
Speaker 1: and making fun of him. The parents couldn't save him.
28:23
Speaker 1: I mentioned drop in unannounced. I've used examples like, oh,
28:29
Speaker 1: I've got to give John David a baby aspirin, or
28:31
Speaker 1: oh Lucy forgot her hoodie. To get in be involved.
28:37
Speaker 1: You don't have to be the president of the PTO
28:40
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, but be involved, be on the scene.
28:45
Speaker 1: I went so far as to be a volunteer in
28:46
Speaker 1: the library. Do you know how many thousands of books
28:50
Speaker 1: I shelved just so I could walk by and see
28:54
Speaker 1: John David and Lucy when they were on snack time. Yes,
28:59
Speaker 1: I hope the school's not listening. I did have an
29:01
Speaker 1: ulterior motive, but you know, what back to you, Owen
29:04
Speaker 1: La Fave. I don't know how parents can look at
29:10
Speaker 1: a teacher like deb La Fave and think, Wow, she's
29:13
Speaker 1: gotta left my child. What tips do you have for parents, Owen?
29:19
Speaker 1: You know, I think it really all starts with having
29:21
Speaker 1: a relationship with your child so they feel comfortable talking
29:24
Speaker 1: to you and sharing things with you. And like I
29:27
Speaker 1: said earlier, if anything seems suspicious or your child says something,
29:32
Speaker 1: you need to follow up on that. Knowing who your
29:34
Speaker 1: child is spending time with, being diligent, checking their phones
29:38
Speaker 1: and emails, and even to the extent of maybe being
29:41
Speaker 1: a big brother and a life tracker app so you
29:43
Speaker 1: know where you're at when it came to you my
29:46
Speaker 1: former wife. Unfortunately that technology wasn't around back then, but
29:50
Speaker 1: maybe that could have helped you know the boy in
29:52
Speaker 1: this instance. It just understanding that just because someone belongs
29:58
Speaker 1: to a reputable organization or seems to be a reputable
30:01
Speaker 1: person in the community, oftentimes they are the predators and
30:05
Speaker 1: follow your intuition and pop in. I love that story, Nancy.
30:09
Speaker 1: I think that's me and all the books I shelved.
30:14
Speaker 1: Oh that's the tip of the iceberg. If you had
30:16
Speaker 1: any idea. I picked the twins um they go, Mom,
30:20
Speaker 1: we saw you at recess. I'm like so, and I
30:24
Speaker 1: wasn't trying to hide, John David, I don't care if
30:26
Speaker 1: you saw me. I know if everybody else saw me too,
30:28
Speaker 1: because I'm watching to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for
30:32
Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed dot com. Doctor Gallagher,
30:39
Speaker 1: you may be wondering the significance of you and m
30:43
Speaker 1: E being on our program today. And this is why
30:46
Speaker 1: it's very hard to prove a case like this at trial.
30:50
Speaker 1: There's no forensic governance left. Isn't it true that, for instance, sperm,
30:57
Speaker 1: it's gone after about twenty six hours, it starts decomposing
31:03
Speaker 1: almost immediately touch DNA, all of that vanishes in a
31:08
Speaker 1: matter of days. And you heard the school's resistance in
31:12
Speaker 1: prosecuting and investigating to Neil Whittaker that young man took
31:16
Speaker 1: his life. So you can't count on forensics in cases
31:21
Speaker 1: like this to prove anything. Well, I mean that can
31:25
Speaker 1: be true, Nancy. I guess it depends on where you
31:27
Speaker 1: look for the DNA. If you could find a DNA
31:30
Speaker 1: under the fingernails or in other parts of the body.
31:34
Speaker 1: Back as you can find it on the clothing. You
31:39
Speaker 1: can find it on the clothing as well. But I
31:42
Speaker 1: understand that this case was a suicide, and is that
31:46
Speaker 1: what is going to be difficult to prove it? Well,
31:48
Speaker 1: I made them a lesstation of the children. Is very
31:51
Speaker 1: hard to prove forensically because time passes and the evidence
31:57
Speaker 1: decomposes in the body. Well, that's true. Time is of
32:00
Speaker 1: the essence. It is your greatest enemy. And it's best
32:04
Speaker 1: if you have these suspicions to act swiftly and to
32:08
Speaker 1: collect the clothing, collect any type of item that may
32:13
Speaker 1: have been received from the potential molester, and then sequester
32:19
Speaker 1: that for friends of evidence. Back to doctor Roy H. Lubitt,
32:23
Speaker 1: joining us from New York, New York psychiatrist doctor Lubitt.
32:29
Speaker 1: In this case, the boy victim Corman, felt so much
32:34
Speaker 1: anxiety and embarrassment and like a self esteem the humiliation.
32:41
Speaker 1: He actually moved away from his hometown just days after
32:47
Speaker 1: high school and then couldn't take it anymore and killed himself.
32:52
Speaker 1: Now the parents have to live every day of their
32:55
Speaker 1: life wondering what could I have done? What is your
33:01
Speaker 1: advice to parents, doctor Lubitt, Well, it's critical that the
33:05
Speaker 1: parents being very available and very supportive these situations. But
33:09
Speaker 1: it's also critical to the school see to it, sees
33:12
Speaker 1: to it that other students and teachers understand that the
33:17
Speaker 1: boy was a victim, just as a girl who had
33:21
Speaker 1: sex with a teacher is a victim. And what I've
33:25
Speaker 1: seen happen is that people turn on the male victim
33:31
Speaker 1: where they complain that the woman was a favorite teacher
33:34
Speaker 1: of theirs, that you know, he must have enjoyed it,
33:37
Speaker 1: he was complicit in it, and this is devastating. Teenagers
33:42
Speaker 1: are particularly vulnerable to humiliation. We all are, but when
33:48
Speaker 1: you retired, community turns on you and your teenager, and
33:52
Speaker 1: teenagers are impulsive, the risk to them killing themselves is
33:56
Speaker 1: very high. Guys, how can you protect your child, no
34:00
Speaker 1: matter what age, when they were at school, And it's
34:02
Speaker 1: hard to take in that they even have to be
34:04
Speaker 1: protected from their teacher, you know, And I think of
34:08
Speaker 1: my teachers. I think about Miss Julia, my kindergarten teacher.
34:12
Speaker 1: Her husband was a farmer and she wanted to teach,
34:16
Speaker 1: so he cleared out the barn and I went to
34:19
Speaker 1: kindergarten in a barn and it was wonderful. My first
34:24
Speaker 1: grade teacher, my second grade teacher, Miss Annabelle. I wrote
34:28
Speaker 1: my first poem for her and she kept it. All
34:32
Speaker 1: the teachers that were so wonderful that affected my life
34:37
Speaker 1: and changed my life. And it's hard to take in
34:39
Speaker 1: that there are teachers that molest their students. We've talked
34:42
Speaker 1: about two female teachers that molested their students, one child
34:47
Speaker 1: actually committing suicide over the shame of the sex molestation.
34:52
Speaker 1: But who could ever forget the case of Tad Cummings.
34:56
Speaker 1: Listen to this, but even after coming to round, Thomas
35:01
Speaker 1: says he tried to maintain control over her. He said,
35:05
Speaker 1: not to tell them that we have done anything. That
35:09
Speaker 1: he forced me to go, say that I went willingly
35:13
Speaker 1: say that he was trying to protect me. As time passes,
35:17
Speaker 1: Thomas slowly coming to terms with the ordeal. I know
35:21
Speaker 1: he's a bad man, and I'd blame myself a lot,
35:23
Speaker 1: but now I know that he's at fault. He himself
35:28
Speaker 1: made him do it. Other people don't choose your actions.
35:32
Speaker 1: You do. And Tad Cummings pleaded guilty earlier this year
35:35
Speaker 1: to transporting a minor across state lines for sex. What
35:39
Speaker 1: Tad Cummings did was take advantage of a snow day
35:42
Speaker 1: day that or an in teacher study day. When the
35:46
Speaker 1: dad thought his daughter was going to school, Cummings took
35:49
Speaker 1: off with the daughter. She was found on the other
35:51
Speaker 1: side of the country in a commune with her a
35:54
Speaker 1: teacher having sex repeatedly. This little girl, she dound so
36:00
Speaker 1: grown up. I guess the experience change here in ways
36:04
Speaker 1: we can never understand. But no one knew what was happening.
36:10
Speaker 1: Her parents, her friends, no one knew. What can you do?
36:14
Speaker 1: Look for signs in your child's behavior. Have their grades dropped?
36:19
Speaker 1: Do they have unexplained absences? As Owen la Fay pointed out,
36:23
Speaker 1: have the track or the device on your child's phone
36:26
Speaker 1: so you know where they are. Research to school history
36:30
Speaker 1: at particular teachers. Look up Facebook, Insta, Twitter and all
36:34
Speaker 1: social media. Look for your teacher if you get bad vibes,
36:39
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to ask that your child be transferred
36:42
Speaker 1: to another class. So what do your homework? This book
36:49
Speaker 1: has pages and pages of ways for you to protect
36:53
Speaker 1: your child. To all of my guests, thank you for
36:58
Speaker 1: being with us. God bless these children that are trying
37:02
Speaker 1: to put their lives back together. And to the parents
37:06
Speaker 1: of Corbin, don't be a victim. Don't let your child
37:11
Speaker 1: be a victim. Fight back. Nancy Grace cried the story,
37:17
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,