Latest / Dental Mentors / The Single-Location Empire: Colin Ambler & Dr. Sharon Bleiler on Why a Second Office is a Trap

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The Single-Location Empire: Colin Ambler & Dr. Sharon Bleiler on Why a Second Office is a Trap · Dental Mentors

• Dental Mentors: If you get to a hundred and fifty exams per doctor, then it's starting to think about adding the next doctor. And today our practice does twelve hundred hygiene visits per month. And so there's about twelve hundred exams. If you divide that by a hundred fifty, you get to where you need six to seven docs to service that amount of demand. Hygiene equals production. Production equals collection. Collection is dollars. You know, the gift of dentistry is that hygiene is recurring And hygiene is accumulative. And so hygiene is compounding that every month, if I have a hundred patients this month, in six months from now, I should retain those and have more with new patients. And so every six months I should have more patients than I did previous months. Therefore, I'm always increasing. Therefore, every month should and could be my best month. And we think that most dentists don't know that number, they stay constant. And you can look at a dentist for thirty years and they're have the same amount of hygiene. Because they don't know that number. They're not retaining. They're not reactivating, taking care of recall. They're all like, Give me new patients, give me new patients. They're not realizing that they need those old. They're not planning six months from now, I need to open another column, I need to hire. Welcome everybody to another episode of Dental Mentors. I'm your host for today, Neil Zemba. I'm here with Colin Ambler and the wonderful Dr. Sharon Beleiler. Hello. Now, you guys, I'm really excited for ⁓ for this podcast. And before we were rolling, we said we got the we got the folks from the Northeast in here today. So ⁓ we got some rabble rousers in here today. so basically, you know, you guys have a fascinating story, and I really want to get into that. You guys are sort of the rare Especially you, you know, Dr. Plyler. I mean, you've got such an incredible story because you're sort of the, I hate to say rare, right? I mean rare entrepreneurial dentist that kind of, you know, noticed problems, started solving your own problems. ⁓ it's not that common. And so I think I'm always fascinated by, you know, these stories, in particular, your story and you know, you guys found a pain point. You started a company to to solve that pain point. But, you know, at a high level, I just kind of want to start with with, you know. your guys' background, how did you get into dentistry, especially you, Colin? I I resonate with you. Yeah. ⁓ on that on that level. Everyone says they came into dentistry by accident. Yeah. And that's kinda how it happened. But Cher, you can kind of say that you started a practice and my background, I guess, will come in and out of this. ⁓ I was always a tech guy. I was always taking apart either cars or computers when I was growing up. And I started my first business when I was in college. And ended up building ⁓ rosters, leaderboards, tournament management bracket software for youth sporting events. I was a college lacrosse player. And so I first started doing tournaments and youth sport businesses out of college. And I made software that went along with it. And and that kind of put it to bed. But then it kind of came back later with the dental stuff, actually in office. You know, some of our team care product is like. Every employee is listed on the leaderboard and has metrics and we do incentives on it and it's very reminiscent of like some of the previous stuff we did. But Sharon started a practice in what, 2016? Yes. I I got divorced and I was in a very bad way and I had four kids. So I was interviewing for jobs and I didn't want work for someone. ⁓ so actually we were already seeing each other and I was like, Yeah, I think I'm gonna start practicing. Kyle's like, yeah, you should. But he lived in Chicago. So I opened the practice. I was I think, you know, I think I read a book like Lean Startup. I know I read that. And I borrowed a small amount of money, opened plum for five, working out of three. Kyle comes back to Philly and I'm not doing so great. an associate prior to that or you working? I had always I had done a bunch of different things, associate. ⁓ yes, pretty much. So not doing great, Kyle comes in, he's asking me questions and I'm like, I'm not really sure about that, not sure about that. Kyle comes into the office. and I actually read another book and I'm like, yo, this is what we're gonna do. I remember some of the early ⁓ stories about the practice in like its not so good days. Yeah. Where ⁓ I would ask and I'd be like, Hey, ⁓ you know, are you losing money, gaining money? You know, you take these loans and there's like this working capital, there's this time that you're gonna like, okay. Expect to have a loss and then you're gonna shoot up. wasn't really happening. I wasn't getting that impression. I was like, Hey, you know, we should like do some quick books and you know, see what actually profit loss. And so and eventu eventually that happened. But then I went in the office just to check it out and see what was going on. And there was a a a stack, ⁓ a folder, ⁓ that was like this high and it said bills on the on the top of it. And and I was just sitting there at the front desk. But ⁓ I remember some guy came in and he was like wanting to get collection on one of his lab bills. It was like five grand or something like that. Way past your net ninety. I was like, ⁓ let me see and ⁓ let me see if Sharon's here. And Sharon had already gone out the back door. Well you've never been. I don't know if any and I was like, All right, all right, we gotta do something. We gotta change this. Yeah. But yeah, Sharon We slept in the office. We had slept in the office. Yeah. We didn't have a place at that point. I was coming from Chicago and back. And this is your current office in Philly that you guys have now. Is that okay? Yeah. So but that was the initial sort of fit out of it. It was it was smaller, like Sharon said, there was five rooms, maybe plumbed for two or three. And now it's fourteen operatories. We knocked down a bunch of walls and scaled it up quite a bit. But back in the day we had ⁓ we were sleeping in the staff lounge. ⁓ Outside business hours, of course. ⁓ We won't pry into that. And that's amazing too, because I w I want to get into that because you know, we'll talk about the ex I think I think the the expansion of, you know, you deciding to grow the practice is is is fascinating to me. I think a lot of people listening to this are are in the same position, like we at Rise here all the time. Like, okay, I want to grow. A lot of folks I think think they have to, ⁓ open up a second practice or a second location. Yeah. What are your guys' thoughts on that? Why did you guys say just talked to a guy we were at the the event with at the table and he I talked to him about some of the fundamentals that we've learned over the years. And he actually said, I wish I would have met you two years ago. I wouldn't have opened my second office. It's one location. You're running people, you're that you can physically be there. I mean there's a million reasons and I think pre prematurely people often open that and they just kind of have a whole Other additional cost and kind of like I asked them how far apart they were, and it was like 40, 50 minutes. Like it can I think it sends the dentist kind of running around quite a bit. I think we're a good story because you talk you go to these meetings sometimes and you talk to people and they're like, I'm a DSO now, I have 10 practices, this. We are relatable. We did it. I would say that in a way we were better off because we were desperate. Like we were desperate. We had to do something, and a lot of dentists get comfortable. And they don't make that next step. And you have to make that next step. You have to keep going, whether you're desperate or whether you're comfortable and you're making ends meet and you're worried. When we talk to people, there's people way ahead of us and there's people way behind us. And if everyone just keeps talking and doing things and communicate, like if we all tell each other what we're doing, everyone's gonna win. Because there's people that can help us so much. And you know, we have used you and that has helped us so much. So like I think there's constantly you're constantly learning, constantly talking. But I think we're a great example of a single practice dentist can we now have six associates and endodonists. I don't practice. I mean like you can do that coming from anything. You know, I think that's like yeah. Like that's the biggest I think it's a huge thing to know because most of the times you do go somewhere and people are talking on levels that you're like, that doesn't relate to me. Yeah. You know. You know, I I want to really get into that. Before we do though, I'm I I always love this question of like, you know, you mentioned, you know, you're you're you're reading books, you're doing this, you're doing that. What was the thing that like made you just take take that leap and start start the practice? Well, I mean So I think ⁓ one the book that we read was by John Roy Christensen. Yes. ⁓ it was called The Bahamas Practice and he set the table for a pathway to get out of the chair. And he prioritized the the the focus of growing hygiene as as a mechanism to do that. Yes. It was actually the topic I talked about with that other ⁓ doctor out there who started a second practice. One of the easy with the rule of thumbs that we've gone by is that the number that determines whether you should expand or not is the number of exams that a doctor does in a month. ⁓ and so the magic number that we've kind of gone by is one hundred and fifty. And so if if you get to 150 exams per doctor, ⁓ then it's starting to think about adding the next doctor. And so in today our practice does 1200 hygiene visits per month. And so there's about 1200 exams. And so ⁓ if you divide that by 150, you get to where you need six to seven docs to service that amount of demand. And so ⁓ the doc out there was talking to him, he was he was about 120 exams. And you'd already brought in an associate. And I think that what can happen with that is that neither person's happy. Yeah. Right. It's not enough. It's really can't feed both. Right. And premature hire, premature expansion, and it doesn't go. And so ⁓ but if you use that as ⁓ as like that is the game. If you can grow hygiene, right, then it's like I look I mean, and one of the principles was ⁓ hygiene equals production, production equals collection. Collection is dollars. And so if you if you go back to that, hygiene equals dollars. Hygiene and so, ⁓ you know, and and what we learned is that ⁓ you know, the gift of dentistry is that hygiene is recurring and hygiene is accumulative. And so hygiene is compounding. That every every month, if I have a hundred patients this month, in six months from now, I should retain those and have more with new patients. And so I should Every six months I should have more patients than I did previous months. Therefore, I'm always increasing. Therefore, every month should and could be my best month. And if hygiene's compounding, just like money's compounding, like practice growth should be sort of compounding. And we think that most dentists don't know that number and they stay constant. And you can look at a dentist for 30 years and they're have the same amount of hygiene because they don't know that number. They're not retaining, they're not reactivating. Taking care of recall. They're all like, give me new patients, give me new patients. They're not realizing that they need those old. They're not planning six months from now, I need to open another column. I need to hire. You have to, that is our focus. Like I'm always looking six months from now, I'm opening a column. Everyone's like, no, she did it again. But I will have it outfitted and ready to go by the time that comes. If you're, we have a rule of thumb that if the schedule's 70% filled. That's too much. You n if you're a hundred percent filled, you're in trouble. Like you can't grow or do well. That makes sense. And especially coming from like an e-commerce background myself, you know, when I got into dentistry, like, you know, we call it ARR. I mean, you know, annual recurring revenue. Yes. But it's very similar in the in the dental space. And it, you know, it can be it's typically not how everybody thinks about it, but you know, you talk about your valuation could go up because you have you have ARR. ⁓ and so What are some of the things that you guys are doing? So first of all, what what's just for the people listening, what's that algorithm again? Can you mention that? What's what's the what's the formula that people can kind of take home? So a hundred and fifty patients per doctor per month is the magic number. Okay. and I think in order to get to a growth state, ⁓ you have to number one retain your patients. And so there's preappointment. You know, everyone should leave with a future hygiene appointment ideally. You should be at ninety-eight percent for that. Yeah, like ninety-eight percent is there. still people cancel, people drop off. And so we'll talk about the reactivation of patients, you know, to get there. and then the second most important piece is to increase capacity so that you can allow for new patients to enter the practice. Right. If we see practices all the time having new patients. of fifty. They feel really good that there's fifty. ⁓ but those fifty displaced fifty other patients somewhere else. It was fifty in, fifty out. And so when we look at their hygiene numbers over time, they're just flat. ⁓ they've never changed the the net positive relationship there. And so in order to do that, you have to proactively add capacity so that ⁓ the next fifty patients have a place to go in the schedule. And so if you If you really focus on retention of patients and you bank on that those hundred patients that you saw in January are gonna have a spot again in June, you have to add capacity by mostly, you know, columns is one thing, but also providers. You know, it's like if you have a hygienist that's busy seeing seven patients every day, there's no way that she can see another eight patients that day. It's like you have to hire Proactively. And I think that scares Dennis. Like we were just in an office yesterday with a woman who was like, I can't even get a hygienist. And we said to her, you know what? Don't worry about tomorrow. Add the column for six months. You're gonna get there so quickly. And that gives you six months. You're leading up to how are you gonna run this? Do you need extra staff? Yes, you need a hygienist. But people get frozen by that. They think, ⁓ I can't add that. I don't have this staff. But do it six months from now. I also think there's such like to me, I mean, you just made me think of like visualization, right? It's it's gotta be helpful to visualize that and then they get used to it over six months. They could see that it's there. Now by by week three, they're already used to there's that extra column. Yeah. And now they can start thinking it's you you're so right about that. Cause there's this mentality that I notice as well of lack, right, versus abundance mindset. And you know, having that visual cue in your schedule. ⁓ is interesting. I've never heard that said like that before. And when you do that, people sorry, and when you do that, even the rest of the staff trust you because the first time we did that, the hygienists were running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Everyone's nervous. But once you prove I I'm gonna back you, this is not gonna happen in a bad way. We're gonna do this the right way. You're gonna I will have the staff, I will lose the support. Worst thing happens, I will clean those people. And once everybody knows that and sees it once, nobody gets nervous anymore. You know, we're booking eight columns for five hygienists because usually have about a third fall off anyway. Like that's the other thing you have to do. Mm-hmm. The other thing that you s you mentioned there about visualization is ⁓ you know, with team care, ⁓ as part of our practice, we started to get into all these things and really be metrics focused and intentional with our growth. And ⁓ we have a chart that's really popular. It's called lifetime stats. And it shows that the hygiene over like a longer period of time, you know three years or so. And the first time that ⁓ offices see that, doctors see that, there's often like this really big case of frustration. because they put a lot of dollars into marketing, they work really hard, and they feel like the they should be growing. And when they see the past three years as an utter flat line, right, ⁓ it's like demoralizing. And yep. And ⁓ and and that they get over that quickly. ⁓ and they're like, I wanna change this. You know, it's like I'm working so hard. I wanna be up here and not down here. And so I think that like big picture visualization. Whenever you run a PMS report, you don't really get that. You get like this month or something, but to see it visually over a long period of time, I think is has been really powerful to people. It makes so much sense. And even like as a dental marketer, I mean I always say the the cheapest ⁓ new patient you're ever gonna get is an existing patient. Yes. And so if you're not doing you know, we introduced rise recall recently as you guys know, and like that's to basically go in and I mean a lot of these offices have a hygienist doing the recall. Yes. And it's a really expensive. It's really, really dumb in my humble opinion, operationally to do that. Some of it to have a clinician doing making those calls, I could maybe see an argument for just outstanding treatment calls, but for hygiene calls, you know, to that point it just And they hate it's too expensive. Yeah, they see They they'd rather be seeing a patient and you'd rather them be seeing a patient. Right. ⁓ it's fine if you want to fill in some time and do something productive, but if you want to do something meaningfully, ⁓ it's like none of these providers that came in s like feel like cold calling is part of their job description. And you're so on defen when you're when you're doing that, you're so on defense at that point where you have your clinicians, you're paying for your rent already, you're paying for all your hard costs. And then you have to have your very expensive clinicians going making hygiene calls, it just kills me. But I I think what he said too about the what you said, Neil, about recall patients. All dentists want, they're like, I want a new patient, I want a new patient. The recall patient already trusts you. Yes. So if you presented it once before, when you say it that second time, they're like, you know what, they've been telling me that. I think they undervalue the recall patient so much because the recall patient is much more likely to do at least one procedure when they come back in. Well, I'll say this too. It's like, I'm con now that we're starting to look at the data thanks to teen care, which I want to get into in a second. ⁓ it's been my favorite tool to be able to really dive into that. And you guys have created a CRM and you know, for hygiene recare, which has never existed in the practice. ⁓ but I say that because it's like it it yeah, it's crazy how expensive it is to do to do recare. I I always assumed that there was, I think everybody kind of assumes that there's this upper limit to basically the amount of treatment that a given patient can come in with. And I've I'm just being kind of humbled by this data because there's not it that's not really the case. Like, I mean, unless you've had like two double arches and there's nothing else to do. ⁓ particularly I think patients of a certain age, of a certain kind of socioeconomic standing right. ⁓ j just ⁓ just as you know, personal anecdote, when I've been looking at at a lot of this data with a lot of our client practices, ⁓ I'm just kind of blown away by a lot of it is that they're just they're not coming in enough. So there's not enough ⁓ being diagnosed, there's not enough being looked at. ⁓ patients are kind of putting off treatment and, you know, not not really paying attention to it or or whatever. But to that point, like if they're a good patient and you know, you're you you know that they're they're gonna come in and ⁓ and they will show up for their hygiene appointments. And I I think we're trying to get ⁓ some more specific data on this, but what we're finding right now is that Patients are seven times more likely to come in for hygiene, their hygiene appointment, than they are to come in just like cold turkey with treatment. So let's say John Smith has six implants. He's not super peachy keen to come in and spend fifty fifty thousand dollars. And by the way, this is a side note, but I think it's relevant to this. On the marketing side, it kills me all these companies that kind of, you know, talk about, ⁓ we're gonna bring in all these implant patients by by bidding for the term. implant on Google. And when we dug into that, what we found was it's not that patients are like searching for dental implants, it's that they're basically pissed because they have a huge treatment plan for $25,000 and they're basically getting a second opinion. So I always tell folks too on the marketing side, I'm like, do you really want to be spending like $60 a click or whatever your the you know these agencies are telling you to do to bring in like these implant cases or should we go and we you know we find emergency patients for That we can bring in consistently for like 20, 30 bucks, or just bring in your your hygiene you know patients and and and see if they need implants from there. Yeah. So you through working with Rise Recall for Pillown Know, ⁓ we had a very the CRM system that tracked the calls and identified the patients and made this living list of ongoing, just this list is always populating of people do. People unscheduled, it's always responding to your PMS. It's a really just accurate list. Yeah. and that's what sort of the first version was. But when your team got involved and starting doing this on behalf of practices, ⁓ you started to get a little creative with it and you started to come up with this term of ⁓ weighted hygiene, right? Or w is that the term? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Weighted hygiene. Weighted hygiene. And and so you started asking me, like, hey, this hygiene list is cool. ⁓ but could we add some filters there that could take the hygiene patients and maybe what if we just called the people that needed treatment? What if we called the implant patients and told them to come in for hygiene? Right. And I think we'd have a better success rate of getting implants by nature of just getting them back in the door to do hygiene. And I thought that was brilliant. We added those filters almost the next day because I knew it was going to be a hit. We just saw it like, you know, continue to come up and I I think that's a good kind of segue into into team care. You know, What was your what was what was the big, you know, light bulb moment to start team care? Like why, why weren't the other platforms enough? You know, I know we've talked about the frustration of the accuracy of the data wasn't quite there, the real-time element wasn't there. I always get kind of peeved as like when we're doing marketing research and you know, you pay for all these like PDF maps, for example, of data, and it's really it's like 10 years old. You know, and I feel like that's like that's from my personal experience. But what what was the thing that like why did you guys decide let's start a tech company you know out of our practice? That's not a a a normal thing to do. I guess I had the itch. ⁓ I had come out of like previous tech and I was like, but we were scaling our practice and back to some of those first foundational things. ⁓ we wanted to track individual employees, accountability and what their output was, what their performance was. And one of the first systems that we put into place was on this hygiene game, right? We we we we sunk into this that if we grow hygiene, we will grow our practice, we will add associates, we will get ourselves out of the chair, and we will have like a a big business enterprise. So like it's totally there. ⁓ but in order to do that, we needed the staff to do their jobs. Like we needed a pre appointment to be at ninety eight percent. We needed to make fifty reactivation calls. And and when you go about trying to implement some of those things from the inside the practice, you end up using a spreadsheet. ⁓ you say, Okay, pre appointment. Everyone, let's make sure we preappoint. And so here's what I want you to do. Go into the spreadsheet, type the patient's name, type the next appointment you made next to them, type your name, and you just have this like spreadsheet of junk that's not really verifiable. That's like outdated immediately. Yeah, it's a it's it's it's crap. Someone cancel actually the initial recommendation was to keep a sheet, a paper sheet. I was like, well, that no. And people have been doing spreadsheets, like people have been doing that for a long time with frustration. But then you start to you know, you start to enhance these systems. I mean, that's really it was staff systems. You know, we wanted to number one, not be at the practice, yeah. ⁓ but be able to monitor what everyone was doing and then sort of gamify it so that people could have a leaderboard that they could look at their name and say, well, what's my pre-appointment rate? How many reactivation calls have I made? How many patients did I get back into the office from my phone calls? And and then then introduce reward structure, like incentives. Like, hey, ⁓ for every single patient that you get, we'll give you a bonus. If you get preappointment above this rate, we'll give you a bonus and and motivate people through that either by money Or by just a pat on the back, congratulations. And it's like it outs the frauds too, because we always like we always say A players want to play with A players. So if we're sitting next to each other and he's killing himself and I'm on my phone, he's gonna leave because he's gonna be like, yo, I'm killing myself. And that's your culture. And it's your culture. And once you do that, everyone's like, You're calling out the frauds. You can't hide. L numbers don't lie. Your name's on there. You didn't do your job. This person can feel really good because they're being rewarded for what they do. And it makes the other people step up. You know, whenever we have a problem at the office, I always say to people, you know, we have a lot of employees, some work harder than the others. I'll sit someone down and I hear a lot of complaints. I say, yo, you know, I don't know what to do. Like I don't know what shift to put you on. No one wants to work with you. You don't you don't pull your weight, you're on your phone, you're in the back, ⁓ you nobody wants you on their shift. I I don't know what to do with you. So you either start working or I'm gonna fire you. It's eyed in the open. Everybody can see. Yep. And I think that's the second you say that, people want to pe please their peers. And when people see that, it's not even about me and Colin anymore. Right. It's about I'm working with you. But horizontal. Once you have everyone rowing the boat in the same way as Colin says, these people want to do it for themselves to be proud, but also for the people they work with. It's actually camaraderie, even though you think it would be it wouldn't be, it really is. Yeah, and I think for for marketing agencies like yourself, like you can hit, you know, you can do all the right things with ads and lead gens and stuff like that. But if the staff doesn't accept those phone calls and book the points and do the things, right? Like there's so much that we're reliant upon within staff behaviors. Like if they sabotage it, it everyone looks like like crap. Right. ⁓ if they like kill it, It makes you look great. It makes the practice make so much more money. Like there's there's this problem where you have these twenty to thirty whatever hourly paid employees that hold the fate of this multi-million dollar practice. And so like I I very quickly saw that and I said, I think that we can do something better than the world has out there. I think all the other players out there that do analytics, ⁓ they're not influencing it with. The staff engagement and direct sort of ⁓ accountability to their own performance and behavior. I was just gonna say that the thing that I really love about what you guys have built with team care is it's I mean, I presumably that's why it's called team care, but like you're associating every every task has a team member, a part of it. And it functions like a team. There's some like sports kind of theme underpinning there. I'm a big fan of EOS, the entrepreneur operating system. We love that. And kind of the the You know, in in EOS, for example, and we do this with dental mentors, we're really big believers in the concept of the scoreboard, you know, running up the scoreboard. And there's some, you know, the the you know, run a team. You know, there's points involved, there's an objective for how we can all win the game. And you've done a phenomenal job, I think, with the psychology of that, similar to kind of that aspect of like opening up an additional column. You are ⁓ you know, the other the other thing that we love with dental mentors is extreme ownership. Ownership of your role, ownership of your KPI. Every role has a KPI. And you guys have really, in my experience, I mean, you you're the ones that have built you put all the pieces together. It's not some obscure, you know, dashboard that just shows a bunch of stuff, but then who's responsible for it? Right. Like one of my favorite quotes right now or themes is just kind of like, you know, there's we have an overabund abundance of data. Professor Scott Galloway said this, why who I like, and he goes. ⁓ we have an overabundance of data. Everybody thinks that data is gold. Data's not gold, data is crude oil, and everybody's very confused by how much freaking data there is. But gold are the algorithms that make sense of the data. The too long didn't read. What do I do with that data? And what I think is cool about team care is that you take that data, you assign it to a team member, all of their KPIs are kind of associated with that. And then they that they kind of have their marching orders. They know what to do with that, they know how to win. their game. That's right. And then they know how to pass the baton to the next team member to go and do and do their thing. And you know what else it does? ⁓ there's a monotony of going to a dental office every day and maybe doing confirmation calls or checking people in and checking people out. And this it really does change that. Everyone's looking at these, they all have it up up front. It's up all the time. They're talking about they're like, I close this case, I close it. Usually you're kind of working by yourself on that. You know you closed it, but maybe it just also is everyone's seeing what you're doing. And it really has helped with the mo monotony of some things. Like even for the back to enter a case, to you did a lab case. Well, they have to enter it on there and they're like, I I did like this, the F des or the assistants, them seeing what they did, them getting someone back in to get their crown in. We can see that. So I feel like, you know, in any job, I'm sure it's like that, but I'm I only know dentistry. So like the time is and ⁓ they get excited again. And I was just traveling around with one of the guys we work with. They're like, ⁓ this is Colin, he started team care and they reacted I I didn't expect much. ⁓ but they're like, ⁓ we love team care. And I was like, ⁓ that's cool. Why do you love team care? And they said it it tells my bosses that I'm actually working my ass off up front. because otherwise every time they come up here they think I'm doing nothing. Or just cause those team members that are really working their butts off to your point, like you know It doesn't get represented often, you know. It's like how much cases did I how much calls did I make, how many patients did I get back in, how many phone calls did I do perfectly? It's just like it doesn't get quantified or represented. And so that that was their biggest feedback is that they really liked that. It showed what they were doing. And that's a big deal, because you can obviously we incentivize them monetarily. They can, you know, get their money out of stripe at any moment. But it really I really thought that was gonna be all they needed. Like everybody just wants money, but it's not. And I know that's obvious, but it wasn't really to me. I and they really do. They want to see their name on the leaderboard. They're kidding each other about it. We never it's not it's not used in a way that it's a negative thing. You know, they're all like excited about it. And you can do team bonuses too, it doesn't just have to be individuals. So it's been great. Like even today, we're sitting in there. And I like got on my phone and I'm texting a couple of people at the front. Yo, you killing it. You guys like you're gonna get to 35,000 today. Way to go. Like, you know, everything is so transparent, it's exciting. Amazing. That's right. Sometimes it's not about the financial rewards, it's about recognition. And from an operator's perspective, that's free. It's just yeah a matter of alignment. Yeah. So and I think it makes everyone feel good. It makes me feel good too. Cause sometimes as the owner operator, you think. No one's doing anything. You can get in your own head and they're getting it in their head. No one appreciates me. And it takes everyone off of those two sides to be like, no, well, they're really doing a lot, you know? And outside that, I mean, Neil, with your service, ⁓ you make ⁓ on behalf of offices, you'll make fifteen hundred to two thousand calls from the reactivation list and we quantify what how many patients came in directly from those calls. And how many dollars did those patients spend over the next sixty days? And usually it's in the factor of fifty thousand dollars that it's like you know, you have this service, people weren't doing reactivation at all. And then they use this combination of Rise and team care to like, you know, pay a little bit of money for the service to be completely outsourced. And We showed them the report at the end of two months and it's like fifty thousand dollars came back in your office. It's yeah, we we have never had so many reac we've been using team care for the longest. We're the beta. ⁓ we have never had as many reactivations since we started you. But it is not even a question. Hey, cool, you made some reactivation calls, but without knowing how many calls, how many were successful and what did this actually take it it doesn't matter. And so I think it's super cool that you saw it as an opportunity to be like, hey, this is a problem amongst a lot of our clients. It's not just about new patients, it's also about returning patients. This is a cool solution. We can offer this to our people. And it's a win-win-win. Like they're making a lot of money. Their schedules are full. What we're finding is like on that note, offices are thinking that they're making about a thousand recare calls or outreaches a month, and the average is under 300. That's what we're finding. And But that was it. It was like, you know, that came from a very practical place of like you come up, you load a spreadsheet, it's like, I'm done. We did the whole list. Right. You know. Who are you targeting? What, you know, are you targeting the right people? Yes. You know, that kind of a thing. So I know I think people make three calls and they're like, we worked at reactivation. They're not built for that. I think they're built for that. Yeah. Colin, Sharon, thank you guys so much for coming. I know you have flight to catch. We, I'm gonna tell you right now, we already want you back on. We want you guys on as routine guests. And for those watching and listening, ⁓ you're more than welcome to join our Facebook community. on Facebook, look up Dental Mentors, find the yellow. That's us. You can join us there. ⁓ you can find Colin and Sharon in the guest section. Any questions that you have ⁓ for Colin and Sharon, please ask them in there. And then the next time we're fortunate enough to have you guys on, maybe we can ⁓ you guys can ask some community questions. Thank guys so much being on soon. Thanks for having you enjoyed today's video, we'd love to invite you to join the Dental Mentors Facebook group. The group is completely free, but it is private at invite only. The group is for practice owners, dentists, specialists, and dental CEOs. If that's you, we'd love to see you inside. 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