Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 97. Veterans Day (ft. Lloyd Cheney)

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Episode 97. Veterans Day (ft. Lloyd Cheney) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  We are a few days away from Veterans Day and I'm really excited to have in studio with us today, Lloyd Cheney.
• 0:09
  He is a retired US Army combat veteran of the Iraq War.
• 0:13
  Married to his wife Terry.
• 0:14
  Celebrated 22 years of marriage on July 12th of this year.
• 0:18
  Welcome Lloyd.
• 0:19
  Thanks.
• 0:20
  I appreciate being here.
• 0:22
  Terry's father, grandfather, and uncle were heavily involved in Masonic activities.
• 0:27
  In fact, I did not know this.
• 0:28
  Her uncle, Arnold Ellingson, was the grandma of North Dakota in the late 1980s.
• 0:35
  You two live in Hastings with two dogs, handsome Jack, the English Bull Terrier, and Tater Tim, an English bulldog.
• 0:43
  Born in Virginia, the youngest of six kids.
• 0:46
  Yep.
• 0:46
  Um, let's start there.
• 0:47
  How was that type of Yeah.
• 0:51
  Um, so yeah, I'm, uh, I'm the caboose of, uh, I have five siblings.
• 0:56
  Uh, there was, uh.
• 0:59
  four boys and or five boys and one girl.
• 1:01
  And, uh, I don't know who had it worse, I suppose.
• 1:04
  Uh, my sister Lori had, you know, being surrounded by all these, all these, uh, boys that probably picked on her, but she, she got us back pretty good.
• 1:13
  But I don't know.
• 1:14
  I was, I was kind of the baby.
• 1:15
  I was, in how things go with families and particularly large Catholic families.
• 1:21
  my mom.
• 1:22
  Didn't really expect to have me, you know, she had me at age 39, so, uh, I was the, the unexpected surprise I suppose being the youngest child, uh, you get to reap rewards of all the things that, uh, everybody else has done, but Absolutely.
• 1:39
  I was the youngest of three, and that's a fact.
• 1:41
  Yeah.
• 1:42
  So, and that probably me and me, your older siblings.
• 1:47
  say that about you, but in the actuality it's, it is sometimes harder to be the last kid because maybe I, I know that my mom didn't always let me want to go and do things.
• 1:59
  and wanted me to stay working on the farm or doing things like that.
• 2:03
  So, and I was always more adventurous going out and, whether it was sports or extracurricular activities and going to, you know what, whatever.
• 2:13
  And then starting a military career.
• 2:15
  Yeah.
• 2:15
  So, yeah, I sometimes wonder if, and being the youngest, if there's almost a perceived hope that.
• 2:23
  We would've accomplished a few things that our older siblings never got around to.
• 2:28
  you're raised on a farm south of Cook, Minnesota?
• 2:31
  more of a, more or less a I suppose a hobby farm of sorts.
• 2:34
  But we did, when my.
• 2:37
  Parents were younger and, my mom purchased the farm from her parents.
• 2:41
  And, uh, my mom and dad worked the farm and we had mainly beef cow, cows, uh uh, so herefords and things.
• 2:49
  So.
• 2:50
  Although we did, you know, we had other diversified livestock at some points.
• 2:54
  We had chickens and pigs and all that kind of stuff.
• 2:56
  So busy you to a lot of, we're talking big time shores here, right?
• 2:59
  Yeah.
• 3:00
  I mean, Feeding, watering animals every morning.
• 3:03
  and everything was seasonal, right?
• 3:05
  So those things that you grew up doing on a farm and with parents of the depression era, uh, whether that be.
• 3:15
  Bay picking in the spring and throughout the summer getting, uh, the crop of hay in towards the, you know, late summer, you know, preparing for fall and doing all the harvest stuff that you know you normally do, going out and, you know, I, I remember going choke cherry picking, and a lot of people go, well, it's choke Cherry's.
• 3:34
  Well.
• 3:35
  What's, what's that?
• 3:36
  They'll say, yeah.
• 3:37
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  Right.
• 3:37
  So, but mom used to make like a, a grape choke cherry jam, and she was an avid canner.
• 3:43
  Uh, I know in like, in the spring of the year, wildlife fry and, you know, the, the time of spawning Suckers would spawn at the same time.
• 3:51
  And then they would, sort the suckers out from the walleyes and, uh, at the hatchery.
• 3:55
  And mom would send us up there with gunny ex.
• 3:58
  Get a whole bunch of, uh, suckers and then we'd flail'em out.
• 4:02
  And, um, so I grew up seeing my older brothers do all that kinda work and we continued that while I was young.
• 4:09
  So we would either smoke them or Mama Canum.
• 4:12
  and that was our tuna fish because, you know, when we grew up we didn't have a lot of, um, money, uh, growing up, you know, we relied on the farm to Yeah.
• 4:22
  You know, provide a lot of our food.
• 4:25
  He graduated from Cook High School and then went on to St.
• 4:27
  Cloud State with a Bachelor's of Geography.
• 4:31
  You received your US Army, ROTC Commission in May of 1990.
• 4:36
  1994 to 96 attended range Technical College in Hibbing Community College with an associate's degree in law enforcement.
• 4:45
  In 1998, you chose to vacate your appointment as an officer to return to troop leading as an NCO.
• 4:51
  Return to active duty as National Guard Recruiter.
• 4:54
  You were the top recruiter in Minnesota in 2001.
• 4:57
  Outstanding and awarded the chief of the National Guard Bureau and then called to take a detachment and deploy to Iraq.
• 5:06
  In 2003, you were assigned to the 30th brigade of the North Carolina National Guard and assigned to a task force of combat engineers and infantry.
• 5:15
  The task force answered bomb calls, conducted raids, destroyed enemy munitions, worked with local populations to reestablish order and conducted route clearance operations.
• 5:29
  The task force was made up of units from the 120th infantry and 105th engineer battalions, along with elements from the first id.
• 5:39
  You were deployed for 391 days.
• 5:44
  In June of 2006, after lengthy medical review boards due to some injuries sustained Iraq.
• 5:51
  You retired as a first lieutenant.
• 5:55
  how did your military career shape and influence who you are today?
• 5:59
  Or can we back up and talk about a little of this experience?
• 6:04
  I think that, you know, from earliest beginnings, you know, I always wanted to go and serve my country.
• 6:11
  so I, I joined when I was, you know, a 17-year-old junior in high school.
• 6:16
  I did a, the split training program option where you would go to, uh, like a National Guard or reserve unit and.
• 6:24
  Go to basic training between your junior and senior year.
• 6:27
  Okay.
• 6:27
  And then come back.
• 6:28
  And it was kind of the ultimate, uh, conditioning program for my senior year football.
• 6:34
  Oh, I bet that was convenience.
• 6:35
  But yeah.
• 6:36
  So, uh, but at that point in time I had lost a lot of weight.
• 6:40
  and, uh, I couldn't fire out.
• 6:42
  I mean, I fired off the line, but I couldn't, you know, I had a lot of guys that were bigger than me.
• 6:46
  So, not that I'm, I'm, I'm kind of plumped now, but, um, back then, you know, kind of, kind of lean and so I, yeah, the eighties were a long time ago.
• 6:54
  Yeah.
• 6:54
  Yeah.
• 6:55
  Right.
• 6:55
  But yeah, so then, uh, yeah, that progressed into, falling on with, more military training than going to college.
• 7:02
  I went to St.
• 7:04
  Cloud State and then went through the ROTC program that was a, a joint program between St.
• 7:10
  John's, St.
• 7:11
  College, St.
• 7:12
  Benedict's, and, uh, St.
• 7:13
  Cloud State.
• 7:15
  And part of your inspiration in serving was that you had an uncle who was in World War ii.
• 7:21
  Yeah, my uncle Roy, uh, Bodin.
• 7:23
  He, Like most people during, uh, young, young men during the Depression era, um, you know, he, uh, grew up in Brit, Minnesota, just actually south of where I lived.
• 7:34
  He ended up marrying my, my aunt Jen, who, uh, um, is just an amazing lady in her, in her own right.
• 7:40
  and.
• 7:42
  Uncle Roy, was in the, CCC Corps, only basically had an eighth grade education, but was in a very, very smart man and ended up testing high.
• 7:53
  And then they put him into, um, uh, radio, uh, operations.
• 7:58
  And he was a member of what they call the Jaco unit, which would get assigned to, uh, Forward, uh, forward observing for shore fire, for naval, uh, gun batteries, and he was doing the island hopping campaigns all over.
• 8:13
  So new Hebrides, Saipan, Tinian, all those little small islands and.
• 8:20
  He, you know, when he was on Macon, you know, he is often said that the Stars and Stripes said Marines take Macon.
• 8:26
  And of course he was one of the first people on Stars Macon Stripes Magazine.
• 8:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:30
  So and so he was like, the Marines take Macon.
• 8:34
  Hell, I was on that, that island long before any Marine got there.
• 8:37
  So, um, but, uh, so yeah, they would call in all this heavy shore fire prep the targets, and then the landing crafts would come in and, and uh, invade the island.
• 8:47
  And then they would.
• 8:48
  After that, they would, they would kind of relax a little bit, but they were still in the thick of it.
• 8:53
  And, uh, so an on island, a stipend.
• 8:56
  He, uh, he was wounded in the shoulder by a mortar fire, while he was unloading, uh, radios from a Jeep.
• 9:03
  And, uh, he spent time in the hospital and he missed Okinawa, which if he would've been.
• 9:11
  Probably on Okinawa.
• 9:12
  He probably would not have survived since that was such a heavy, heavy, mm-hmm.
• 9:16
  Uh, casualty producing island, invasion.
• 9:19
  So yeah, he had a bri big influence on, I think, Well, I know from my, my experience as a, as a small kid, emulating, um, those attributes which men should, you know, learn and, and, and have role models for.
• 9:35
  So, um, did, did he share much?
• 9:38
  Yeah.
• 9:38
  I know that generation could at times be rather quiet about things.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:42
  You know, he, uh, he was very proud of his military service and he was a member of the VFW and he would go, you know, like, you know, everybody's grandfather or whatever, they would go March in parades and um, do rifle drill.
• 9:56
  And he was a member of the Disabled American veterans.
• 9:58
  And, so I always thought, I always admired that.
• 10:01
  And he ended up later on becoming, I mean, he was, he flew for a while.
• 10:05
  He got his pilot's license.
• 10:07
  He was kind of like this Renaissance man, much like our friend Ty Schmidt, you know?
• 10:11
  Yeah.
• 10:11
  In a ways, you know, doing all this stuff.
• 10:13
  And then he became a, a depot agent for, in a telegraph operator for the Duluth, Winnipeg in Pacific.
• 10:21
  and we grew up with him.
• 10:23
  He took us fishing and snowmobiling and all these great things and kind of, uh, you know, a second father figure to, to us kids growing up.
• 10:32
  And he was just a remarkable individual and, you know, had an indelible imprint on my life and I wanted to.
• 10:42
  I thought that the Army would be a great career and at least a good starting point to emulate some of what he did.
• 10:50
  do you ever think about being deployed for 391 days?
• 10:57
  when I'm with a group or we're talking or I'm giving a.
• 11:00
  Presentation and my wife's there.
• 11:02
  And, um, I'll always say, well, I was deployed to Iraq, and then I'll say, and for how long Terry?
• 11:07
  And then she'll, she'll chime in.
• 11:09
  Yeah, she was counting the days.
• 11:11
  so I I, my orders were like for up to two years, so I knew that, typically it's a year we got a, a small extension.
• 11:19
  But, going through all that.
• 11:22
  I don't really focus on the time.
• 11:24
  I, I remember, you know, I, I, there, there are highlights and then low points, but certainly I, um, I wouldn't change a thing with everything that has gone on in my life.
• 11:35
  I, I'm proud of my service and I'm proud of what we did in Iraq.
• 11:39
  Um, you know, some of my attitudes have changed over the years, as far as how we got to that point and things.
• 11:45
  But, you as a young man, I suppose.
• 11:48
  You have this sense of adventure.
• 11:51
  I remember, uh, in 1991, we were, uh, I, I got also deployed to go to the Gulf War, the first Gulf War.
• 12:01
  And you know, when you're 21, 22 years old.
• 12:05
  you, and you have nothing tying you down.
• 12:07
  You have this feeling that, oh, we're gonna go to war, we're gonna do this, and this is gonna be a big adventure.
• 12:12
  Let's go.
• 12:13
  Right?
• 12:14
  And so when you are in your late twenties, um, early thirties, going to combat, And you have a new wife at home?
• 12:22
  you know, we, we had, we got married, we had to move, actually move up our wedding to do this.
• 12:27
  so we were gonna get married in like August, uh, late August and we had to move it up to July and change venues and all this other things.
• 12:34
  And so that added a kind of a sense of urgency and then a little bit of anxiety to our, our situation.
• 12:43
  But once we.
• 12:44
  We got into the deployment and, um, I knew what was happening and where I was gonna go and what I was gonna do.
• 12:51
  I, I always tried to not tell Terry what, you know, I couldn't tell Terry what I was doing when I was in country.
• 12:58
  So, that was a stressful point.
• 13:00
  So when you think, think back of that, the time-wise doesn't necessarily seem like that long, but.
• 13:09
  To my wife.
• 13:10
  Yeah, it was a very long time.
• 13:14
  You mentioned that 20 something mindset to likely feeling indestructible and, and even in your own bio, I think we all have a natural tendency to hear things like conducting raids and destroying enemy munitions and working with local populations, our minds.
• 13:32
  Almost defer to a Hollywood scene of kicking down the door and the room's clear and you fire a couple, like it sounds, it almost sounds like a recruiting brochure, but it's, it's not, uh, it's not quite, that's not fun and games.
• 13:45
  That's serious stuff.
• 13:47
  Yeah.
• 13:47
  Um, a lot of, I mean, I, I took a lot of that off of, uh, you know, awards that.
• 13:53
  I, I, I got, so I looked at it into tour awards and things.
• 13:56
  I'm like, all right, so this is exactly what we did.
• 13:59
  So it's work that's, uh, you kinda have to put the fear of things outta your mind, um, which is very hard in a combat environment.
• 14:10
  But during the time I was there, I would say 80, 80% of our time was spent doing missions.
• 14:18
  That nothing absolutely happened.
• 14:21
  We could have been doing things here in Minnesota.
• 14:23
  Okay.
• 14:24
  Um, and then, you know, 20% of the time it was that kind of, you know, I always say that that octopus beak moment where the pucker factor, you know, and your, it's coming outta your, your posterior and clamping onto the seat, you know, kind of like, oh, here, here, here it comes, type thing.
• 14:41
  But as far as like RA raids and things like that, we did do, I mean, the things that envisioned in someone's mind, we knocked down doors.
• 14:48
  We used explosives to blow, blow, uh, doors into compounds and conduct raids and clear buildings, you know, top down, that type of thing.
• 15:01
  What would you tell someone coming out of a deployment as they're reintegrating into the civilian world?
• 15:08
  Were, were you prepared for the moment when you're home now and sitting in your living room and it's back to what's supposed to feel normal again?
• 15:19
  Yeah, there's, I think there's two elements of that.
• 15:22
  about halfway through my deployment, I, I got a, the opportunity to have leave and come home for just over two weeks.
• 15:30
  Um, that was very odd because you, you would leave mission, and within 24 hours of basically doing your last mission, you were, you know, you flew home and.
• 15:43
  You're sitting in your living room and you're going out to dinner with friends and doing all the things that are normal back here.
• 15:48
  And when you look at, the percentage of people who actually served, i, I, I think it's less than 2%.
• 15:55
  And then, and it's like half that have actually, you know, the normal population in the United States have served in combat, so it's, you know, less than 1%.
• 16:03
  So it's very difficult for, to see and try to acclimate back into this real world environment.
• 16:11
  Particularly when nobody's really acting like there's anything going on and everybody's going about their normal day-to-day business.
• 16:19
  And it seems very odd and very weird.
• 16:22
  and particularly when I got back home.
• 16:25
  I think the second part of that, uh, when I redeployed home, I knew that uh, the, my injuries that I sustained in Iraq were probably going to end my career.
• 16:37
  And that was, was probably more heavily in my mind.
• 16:41
  I'm like, what am I going to do now?
• 16:44
  how am I going to handle all these things?
• 16:46
  'cause I mean, I.
• 16:47
  I thought that, Hey, I'll get done with the military.
• 16:50
  I'll go back, I'll have plenty of time.
• 16:52
  I'll go back and become a law enforcement officer again, maybe with, you know, my bomb experience, I, I can go and maybe apply to the bomb squad in St.
• 17:00
  Paul.
• 17:01
  I can, you know, do all these things.
• 17:02
  And none of those things were, you know, that all that career was just dissipating.
• 17:06
  And I could just see all these plans just kind of going away.
• 17:09
  And that was probably one of the hardest things that I had to deal with.
• 17:16
  What's different today?
• 17:18
  As far as resources that are provided for combat veterans, someone getting out of a tour, reintegrating in ideally the most seamless way possible.
• 17:28
  Are there things new even now that weren't there when you wrapped up?
• 17:33
  Yes, I, uh, going through all these deployments that we have had, whether it's Afghanistan or Iraq or other part parts of the world through the Global War on Terror in the last 20 years.
• 17:43
  Um, when I returned home, it was still, you know, it was early 2005.
• 17:47
  there wasn't a lot of resources and understanding particularly about, blast trauma.
• 17:53
  and sustained, um, repeated, uh, uh, blows to the head, uh, and trauma to the, to the brain basically based on blasts.
• 18:02
  There was some studies being done on football injuries and things like that, but um, they didn't really apply that to a lot of veterans returning home so.
• 18:12
  not until later then those programs started coming about with the VA and, and, and other military hospitals.
• 18:20
  and likewise, whether that's, you know, rehab for, uh, soldiers coming home that are missing limbs and things like that, there are far more prosthetics and, and, more resources that are, that are helpful to veterans today than ever before.
• 18:37
  And I would also add that.
• 18:39
  The transitional stuff, the things that units do, whether that's active duty, you know, guard or reserve.
• 18:47
  this transition, we didn't.
• 18:49
  When we came back home, we did, we were, we were not, you know, we were told basically, stay home.
• 18:54
  You didn't have to go back to drill to try to integrate in your unit, try to stay home.
• 18:59
  They thought that that was probably better.
• 19:01
  So they, they've augmented that and changed things and there's far more support.
• 19:06
  'cause I think when you're, when you come home and you're not, you know, you're not, you're, you're separated from the people that you went.
• 19:12
  And deployed with.
• 19:13
  Yeah.
• 19:14
  you've lost that sense of community and then you're supposed to focus on the community of, uh, you know, at, at home.
• 19:20
  And sometimes it's very hard to integrate, especially your loved ones and your spouses that are, that are looking at this, uh, from a perspective of like, how do I help?
• 19:31
  And sometimes you're like.
• 19:33
  Just leave me alone.
• 19:34
  Right.
• 19:34
  yeah, I think that those things are, are very difficult and I think had I, I had to go through that kind of process and hopefully now I think that there are enough resources that are shrinking that timeframe where you, you can start feeling a little bit better about yourself and, you know, you're never gonna be the same.
• 19:54
  And you know, you have to accept that.
• 19:56
  You're different and, it's up to you to modify your behaviors so that you fit into this new environment.
• 20:04
  This new world.
• 20:07
  You just mentioned something.
• 20:08
  I think that the general population might easily forget, okay, your deployment's finished, you're coming home now and you're reintegrating into your life as it was before, but the real.
• 20:23
  Sticking point to that is you are now separated from your squad, your platoon, the brothers that you've been with for a pretty considerable amount of time.
• 20:35
  So there's two layers to that, that brotherhood aspect.
• 20:40
  You pursued in joining a Masonic Lodge in around, was it 2018?
• 20:44
  You weren't necessarily the youngest guy at the time.
• 20:47
  You weren't old, but it wasn't like you were 25.
• 20:50
  Right.
• 20:50
  Seeking that.
• 20:51
  What was that like?
• 20:52
  What did, tell us more about that.
• 20:53
  Yeah.
• 20:53
  I, I, I guess throughout my military career, I, I had friends who were Masons and it seemed like I was always friends with people who had been or are masons.
• 21:07
  they would go off, you know, I could, once in a while they'd go off the lodge and, you know, wherever I was deployed or, or, or stationed.
• 21:13
  And, um, I always had an interest in, in guys have would ask.
• 21:18
  And by that time I would transfer to a different, uh, different job or position or a different duty stations.
• 21:24
  So, um, I didn't have a opportunity, but when I, when I did finally retire and, It was my brother, well, my, the influence of my, my, my wife's family, because they are all, um, very active into Masonry.
• 21:38
  her father and, and, uh, her uncle and grandfather.
• 21:42
  and that was, uh, that played a pretty huge role.
• 21:44
  And then I, my brother Chris, who is, uh, the past master of Chippewa Lodge, which now they're merged with Nash Walk.
• 21:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:52
  and I'm a member of that lodge as well.
• 21:55
  His sons, uh, Zach and Colton.
• 21:57
  and we've always been a very tight-knit family.
• 21:59
  And particularly, if you're gonna have a, I I don't wanna say that my brother Chris, is my favorite sibling, but we, we do have similar interests and, and we, we seem to have this very, uh, convivial relationship.
• 22:14
  Particularly with his, with his, uh, his two boys.
• 22:17
  Um, and they're, they've grown into very, very good, confident young men.
• 22:21
  and so that's, that played a pivotal role.
• 22:24
  Uh, and then I finally asked him, Hey, you know, what about this lodge thing?
• 22:27
  Right?
• 22:27
  Yeah.
• 22:27
  You know, I, I, I'm, I'm interested in, and, uh.
• 22:31
  Chris goes, oh yeah, you know, that'd be really, really good.
• 22:33
  You know?
• 22:34
  and uh, that was pretty much it until I came up north, uh, again, for some reason or another, and I asked again and he's like, yeah, yeah, that's, uh, he said, we're gonna have to, you know, get you, you know, visit lodge, check it out, and then I came up and I'm like, Hey buddy.
• 22:52
  I mean, like.
• 22:53
  how, how do I do this?
• 22:54
  And he goes, here.
• 22:54
  I, I'm here.
• 22:55
  Yeah.
• 22:55
  And then he hands me a petition and it's just that he was very old school about, you know, the whole, asking like three times and all this other thing.
• 23:04
  And, and so then I, I petitioned the lodge and.
• 23:07
  uh, he presided over the, my, my, uh, EA degree and we did it in lodge and was, it was pretty remarkable.
• 23:14
  It's pretty awesome that a brother, your biological brother was frontloading your commitment to not just fast tracking the process.
• 23:22
  Yeah, I thought he was treating me like, you know, I was like four or five years old again, you know, you know, I, you know, as old, you know, as a baby of the family type thing, you know, I'm, but that wasn't it.
• 23:32
  It was, he was actually.
• 23:33
  Hey, you know, whether you're my brother or not, no different than anybody else.
• 23:37
  He was treating me on the level, which was pretty awesome.
• 23:44
  Shortly after that, 2019, you affiliated at Acacia Lodge, number 51 in Cottage Grove.
• 23:50
  I know you put a ton of miles on back in the day going from a big fork and, and back and forth between Chippewa and Akisha.
• 23:59
  How useful were the tools of masonry in your life when you joined?
• 24:04
  At that time, I, I didn't really expect the, uh, the.
• 24:10
  The feeling that I would get, uh, when I joined Masonry, I, I really thought that, okay, well this is cool.
• 24:15
  It'll be a fraternity.
• 24:16
  It'll be, you know, we, we will do things, we'll hang out, we'll do philanthropy and all that.
• 24:21
  but when I dug deeper that, that's just kind of the shell and you actually get to the, you know, to the middle of the matter.
• 24:27
  And, and I find through the lectures and through the degrees that.
• 24:32
  You have so many useful tools to build yourself and, uh, in your life and, uh, to apply these concepts and, and you know how it doesn't matter how esoteric things get.
• 24:47
  there's one thing that I've always found.
• 24:50
  And you know this because we're fellows together in the right.
• 24:53
  and when we go to the, the house of the temple, temple room and most of our floors are this tessellated tiled floor that has pretty much equilibrium of black and white, right?
• 25:03
  So, but in that room, the tiles of white are very small.
• 25:10
  So you have this darkness that surrounds you.
• 25:12
  And I think that re represents more of the profane world that we're in and.
• 25:18
  And, it's easy to go into the darkness and it's easy to, you know, get into the gray areas rather than trying to walk in the light.
• 25:26
  And I think it's a constant reminder and to use the working tools to actually build your, build yourself.
• 25:34
  In this craft that we have, and the, those things are very, very important to always focus on.
• 25:41
  and if you're, you know, if you're feeling a moment of, you know, can I do this or, look back.
• 25:48
  Read some ritual.
• 25:49
  Go into the, you know, read, read the working tools from all the degrees or follow up and, and look at these things and apply'em to your life in that moment.
• 25:58
  And you'll, you'll, and, and, and think on it and you'll, you'll get the answer to your, to your questions.
• 26:03
  You think there's inspiration there?
• 26:04
  Absolutely.
• 26:05
  Without a doubt.
• 26:06
  I mean, I don't think, well, just as much as the impression that military.
• 26:12
  My service has made on me masonry.
• 26:15
  I don't, I know that I would not be the man I am today without free masonry.
• 26:21
  Why?
• 26:23
  Um, because I was at a point in my life where, where not, not that necessarily that I felt stuck, but there was things that challenges that I accepted that maybe I'm not good enough because I've had a brain injury.
• 26:39
  All those things, but I was allowed to do the things in masonry, whether it's taking on a part in degree and thinking, how am I ever going to memorize all these, all these, all these rituals and all, all these lectures and, you know, come to find out that, wow, you, you are, you have that capability.
• 26:59
  You can do more than you thought you could.
• 27:00
  Right?
• 27:00
  And so applying those.
• 27:03
  Those tools to your life and understanding not only be so that you could re regurgitate ritual, but actually.
• 27:12
  Understand it intellectually, that gave me so much more confidence that I'm like, Hey, my brain is healing.
• 27:20
  These things are helping me.
• 27:21
  And, um, I am, I am less angry and less, anxious about certain things in life, whether it be in the real world or politics or all this other stuff.
• 27:32
  I know there's always a place that I can come, that I can experience brotherhood In as much as that I had with brothers in combat, drill sergeants have a good way of helping us realize that when you think you're done, when you think you're tired, you're about 40% of the way there.
• 27:53
  You've got a lot more left in the tank than you think you do.
• 27:57
  and similarly what your sounds like, what you're saying is that.
• 28:01
  The value teachings of Freemasonry, the symbolism of our working tools as a rule and guide to our lives can really help us to get over the hump of self-doubt.
• 28:12
  Being self-conscious about something or maybe feeling like, I don't know if I can, how am I gonna get through and negotiate this obstacle in life?
• 28:21
  I, I believe that wholeheartedly, but I, I also think that there are people who join our craft.
• 28:27
  and you, you always go back to where were, you made a mason in your heart.
• 28:32
  And I think, it's even deeper than that.
• 28:34
  I mean, you, if you have this in you, it's, it's been in you and, um, given the opportunity, you can go and become, you know, a master mason, do all these things.
• 28:46
  And if you're not actually applying the tools, you're not working the craft.
• 28:54
  That's the most important thing.
• 28:56
  you know, you see plenty of people out there today.
• 29:00
  you might meet them in lodges and things and you know they are doing certain things outside our, our world and you're like, is that guy really working the craft?
• 29:12
  But then it's your job also to go and, you know, gently tap that person and say, Hey.
• 29:18
  Have you thought about doing it this way?
• 29:20
  Right?
• 29:20
  I see you, you might be a little bit frustrated with this issue.
• 29:23
  How can I help to make, you know, how can I support you as a brother?
• 29:29
  Steve Magnus recently posted.
• 29:31
  Everyone wants the secret, the hack, the shortcut, the magic routine.
• 29:36
  That'll get them there faster.
• 29:38
  But here's the truth, there isn't one.
• 29:41
  If you wanna find out how good you can be at anything, it's the boring basic work done over and over for years.
• 29:49
  John L.
• 29:50
  Parker said it best in once a runner.
• 29:54
  What was the secret They wanted to know and not one of them was prepared to believe it had to do with the most un and heart rendering process of removing molecule by molecule.
• 30:04
  The very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes.
• 30:09
  The trial of miles, miles of trials.
• 30:14
  That's it.
• 30:15
  That's the secret everyone ignores because it sounds too simple.
• 30:20
  The irony is that the search for shortcuts often takes you further away from mastery.
• 30:26
  Each new one distracts from the real work.
• 30:28
  You get stuck chasing novelty instead of building consistency.
• 30:33
  We live in a world that glorifies instant results.
• 30:36
  10 times your growth, unlock your potential in 30 days.
• 30:41
  It sounds so good because we crave control and certainty.
• 30:45
  But mastery is the accumulation of effort that compounds quietly in the background while everyone else looks for faster routes in running.
• 30:56
  It's the miles that don't make the highlight reel.
• 30:58
  In writing, it's the days you show up uninspired and still put words on the page.
• 31:04
  In relationships, it's the small, consistent acts of attention that build trust.
• 31:10
  The pattern never changes.
• 31:12
  Repetition is greater than revelation.
• 31:17
  I think there's a lot of truth to that.
• 31:18
  and there's times where.
• 31:21
  no matter how you, how you do that, I mean, it's, uh, it's like, it matters of faith, you know, regardless of, uh, what religion you are.
• 31:30
  Um, sometimes maybe you're thinking that you're just going through the motions.
• 31:34
  Um, you know, I'm saying these prayers, you know, uh, is God really hearing me?
• 31:38
  Um, you know, is he making impact in my life?
• 31:41
  you have to, sometimes you just have to do the work and trust that it's, it's sinking in and, and working.
• 31:49
  and I think that as long as you commit to that with meaning and purpose and do every day and ignore the noise that's around you and actually truly focus and it's particularly masonry, um, and just be kind and, be a good brother.
• 32:07
  you know, don't lend yourself to gossip and falling into the, you know, the traps of life.
• 32:12
  uh, remember who we are and where we're going, and, uh, I don't think any can, anything can stop us.
• 32:19
  And I think if, if more Masons did that, and, and made, made that as an example, we would, we would grow.
• 32:26
  And I, I think we are in a period of.
• 32:28
  Growing again, I, I truly think that we're at the bottom of the trough and we're, and we're gonna be moving up very short shortly.
• 32:36
  It's been several decades.
• 32:37
  We've been basically obsessed with just, let's get more members.
• 32:40
  Let's just generate more petitions.
• 32:43
  And that wasn't a sustainable model.
• 32:45
  but we are meeting.
• 32:47
  Men of all ages that are seeking an experience in which they can surround themselves with a diverse group of friends, different viewpoints, but coalesce around timeless core values.
• 32:59
  Giving back to the community, personal development.
• 33:05
  Recently a young man said to me, I want to be a Mason so that you guys can tell me how to live my life.
• 33:10
  And I thought, dude, we don't.
• 33:12
  We don't tell you anything, but we, like you talked about the working tools, you're gonna, you would learn a lot about symbolism and philosophy, ways that you can enhance your life, build self-confidence, maybe most importantly, realize you have a group of authentic friends and brothers They have your six, they will be there for you in times of joy and celebration.
• 33:38
  They'll be there for you in times of sorrow and, and tough times too.
• 33:42
  That is obviously so lacking in this digital world We live in the, the loneliness crisis is a real thing.
• 33:51
  Yeah.
• 33:51
  I, you know, you look at, uh, men in particular under uh, 30.
• 33:58
  And they are very hungry for, this direction in their life.
• 34:04
  but maybe they don't have the steps to get'em there.
• 34:08
  And I don't think that, you know, hey, you know, join Master Masonry, we will show you the path.
• 34:12
  I, I, I think that no, you need to figure out the path to get to that point where you need to knock on the door.
• 34:19
  Getting us out there and seeing that we are, uh, you know, uh, and living our lives by example, right?
• 34:25
  And, and, and that will attract enough young men to join us.
• 34:30
  And I, we do see that now in our, in our growing lodges.
• 34:34
  but yes, the, the loneliness crisis based on, um, social media.
• 34:39
  and I, I think that.
• 34:40
  It's only probably gonna get worse with that when this advent of AI comes in where people can have relationships with, uh, you know, talking to their ai, you know, generated enemy type person type thing.
• 34:55
  rather than conversing with real human beings, There's a lot of statistics.
• 35:00
  We keep seeing that millions of people are spending money, they're paying a subscription fee to be on an app that serves as a virtual friend, or that gives them guidance, Fortunately, a lot of these young people are realizing this is hollow.
• 35:16
  This is not authentic.
• 35:18
  In, in knowing the value, seeing the value of socially, professionally, and spiritually, that a potentially great person could be ruined by not so great influences, it's very rare someone doesn't become better by surrounding themselves with great people.
• 35:39
  I think that again comes down to, moral foundations too.
• 35:44
  again, back to real representation of that and living our lives, by, by our oaths and, and obligations, uh, are critical, uh, to show young men, how their lives could be.
• 35:57
  but we also have to give them.
• 36:00
  things that they want, you know, meetings that are not inundated with.
• 36:05
  arguing about electric bills or things like that.
• 36:08
  Um, but, but being active, um, they, they want social intercourse, but they want meaningful social intercourse.
• 36:14
  Yeah.
• 36:14
  And they want opportunity for education.
• 36:16
  see all these guys, young guys, you know, and around.
• 36:20
  Throughout the bodies that I'm a member of.
• 36:22
  And one thing that is they, that they, they're, they're very hungry for is, uh, the intellectual discourse.
• 36:30
  lodges in our state that are thriving in retaining their members and really offering that exceptional experience are.
• 36:40
  Really focused on the authenticity of the connection, the opportunity to give back to the greater good in the community and providing, like, to your point, more than just a discussion of bills that we have to pay, but what are we offering our members as far as Masonic education?
• 36:58
  We go down to some of those timeless core values, some of those value teachings and also resources for navigating our way through life.
• 37:06
  Some of the the tough stuff that we.
• 37:09
  Maybe traditionally haven't talked about in lodge, but I will stand by forever.
• 37:15
  The fact that a lodge was intended to be a men's support system we should be celebrating life's victories and we should be supporting each other through life's struggles and lodges that are doing that right now are thriving.
• 37:28
  Absolutely.
• 37:29
  I, you know, you look at the, the thriving launches where we do celebrate, you know, life's joys and journeys and, and I, I have to, I have to thank, um, you know, or brother, uh, Jerry Johnson for actually connecting me to not only Acacia, but uh, you know, the Scottish Rite and, and, and, and the shrine.
• 37:51
  I wouldn't be where I'm in today without his guidance and mentorship.
• 37:54
  And it's been, sometimes he's more of a father figure.
• 37:58
  You know, sometimes he's, an older brother, um, and sometimes he's just a, you know, a convivial friend.
• 38:05
  and that connection has led me to, so many things and opened the door for me to, to really, um, learn more and be a better mason.
• 38:15
  So much so that the Saturday we're celebrating our hundred 60th anniversary as a lodge in Cottage Grove.
• 38:21
  Congratulations.
• 38:22
  Thanks.
• 38:23
  Yeah.
• 38:23
  It was the October 25th, actually in 1865 when we received our charter from Grand Lodge, and so we decided this year.
• 38:32
  We lost a very, very beloved, uh, brother, uh, worshipful brother Neil Klier.
• 38:37
  Oh yeah.
• 38:37
  And, uh, that happened right at the beginning of my, uh, my year as Master at Acacia.
• 38:43
  I made it, uh, my mission to honor Neil throughout the year and dedicate the year to him.
• 38:50
  And so we took this.
• 38:53
  Anniversary.
• 38:53
  We could have had it anywhere, you know, outside the lodge, but I figured no, it has to be in the lodge and it has to, it has to have meaning for not only the lodge members and all of our, our years of celebration, but also in memory and Neil and that led.
• 39:11
  Uh, we, you know, we have done a lot of outside renovations in the last five years.
• 39:14
  Built the lodge and, and redid it and it looks really great in keeping that very historic, 1860s feel.
• 39:23
  But this year, uh, Denise and the climber family donated a cons, a considerable amount of money to renovate the interior watch.
• 39:31
  So we put in a very large tiled inated floor, new carpeting, and so revamped.
• 39:39
  Entire lodge room and it, it looks absolutely beautiful.
• 39:41
  So we put a new, um, a dedicated tile in front of the east side of the altar.
• 39:47
  That's awesome.
• 39:47
  So we perpetually have, um, brother Neil in, in the east, which, uh, will be fitting and will be, uh, commemorating the lodge room to him, uh, the Saturday, which, uh, along with other lodge awards and things like that.
• 40:00
  So it'll be a a pretty great night.
• 40:01
  We're gonna have a full room.
• 40:03
  Well over a hundred people, so it should be a, a great night.
• 40:08
  So, at the time of our recording, we are ahead of that event, but this will be airing after November 1st.
• 40:12
  If someone wants to visit Acacia though, when do you guys meet?
• 40:15
  So we, uh, we're, we are the last Moon lodge in, uh, state of Minnesota and probably a handful of them left in the country.
• 40:22
  And so we meet on the, uh, Tuesday's nearest the fullest moon.
• 40:27
  so the next meeting will be, veteran's Day, uh, November 11th, and we are going to have a Veteran's Day celebration.
• 40:35
  and, uh, we'll have a brisket and tri-tip and for, for, for a dinner at six and meeting at seven.
• 40:43
  and you're encouraged to, you know, if you're retired military been a service member, wear your ribbons.
• 40:49
  Uh, be proud of your service.
• 40:51
  Um, and, you know, you're more than welcome to attend.
• 40:54
  but yeah.
• 40:55
  Tuesdays nearest the full moon.
• 40:57
  Then we have installation coming up on December 6th.
• 41:00
  not that I'm excited about not being master anymore, but, uh, um, we do have a great, great new, incoming master, tradition prevailing, uh, uh, brother Dave Martin.
• 41:13
  He'll be, he'll do a really great job.
• 41:15
  Excited for Dave, and I'd be remiss to not just say thank you to you for your years of selfless service in Blue Lodge and, and many other Masonic bodies as well.
• 41:25
  You are, you are a selfless giver of time and it, it's just so appreciated.
• 41:31
  thanks for that.
• 41:32
  I, but uh, again.
• 41:34
  all these accolades are really awesome and wonderful, but, again, that's just like life, uh, kind of the double-edged sword of, of light and dark, right?
• 41:43
  So you have to always try to, you know, remind yourself that, you know, glory is always fleeting and that you'll always remain, uh, you know, on the level with your other brothers and that you know, you, uh, you're just a normal mason.
• 41:59
  and that's who I am.
• 42:00
  And I do everything for my brothers, but also for the glory of God.
• 42:05
  Servant leadership.
• 42:06
  Tremendous.
• 42:09
  What does everyone, but you seem to own?
• 42:16
  Everyone but me seems to own, That's a, that's kind of a tough one.
• 42:21
  Um.
• 42:23
  Maybe a, a Minnesota Vikings jersey.
• 42:25
  Are you not a Vikings guy?
• 42:26
  I, uh, I was until the, uh, infamous field, uh, field goal, but that, there's two of those now.
• 42:32
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 42:33
  This is 98, so Yeah, me too.
• 42:35
  Um, but that wasn't it.
• 42:37
  It was, it was the whole Denny Green could have put that game away, long before that.
• 42:40
  And, um.
• 42:42
  But I really lost my face and they, sorry, Vikings fans, but that's understood.
• 42:47
  I did the same thing.
• 42:48
  Gary Anderson broke my heart, so I, I've, I'll still follow, but it's, it's not, it's never been the same.
• 42:56
  What was popular when you were a teenager?
• 43:00
  Wow.
• 43:01
  Um, actually watching MTV, uh, yes, that actually had music.
• 43:06
  Yes.
• 43:06
  Um, so music videos, making mix tapes, uh, that probably dates us.
• 43:10
  Uh, you know, that's the best.
• 43:12
  Listening to, uh, that and recording those things and playing'em in your car and.
• 43:17
  It's really depressing to see the headlines of MTV that's continually pairing down now, because I suppose that it doesn't, there's YouTube, there's so many other streaming services.
• 43:26
  It, it's, it's sad though.
• 43:28
  That was such a big part of our lives in the eighties.
• 43:32
  Yeah.
• 43:32
  If you grew up in the eighties in particular, like you and I, um, we saw the advent of, of music television coming to us, and we actually got to see our favorite artists, uh, you know, on a daily basis.
• 43:43
  And, and you could always go, oh, I'll just go to my friend's house.
• 43:46
  We'll, we'll watch music and hang out and chill.
• 43:49
  Yeah.
• 43:49
  And have conversation.
• 43:51
  and now in today's world, everybody's glued to their device.
• 43:55
  Yeah.
• 43:55
  And, and that's, that's all they do.
• 43:58
  We grew up in an era when new bands had to travel 360 days a year.
• 44:04
  Sure.
• 44:05
  And play all sorts of, and, and somebody, I heard somebody having that discussion recently.
• 44:09
  They asked what, what's the most recent band that went through that?
• 44:13
  Because now you get discovered you have one hit on iTunes or where YouTube, your career's made.
• 44:21
  Boom.
• 44:22
  It, it's not that slow.
• 44:24
  Incremental.
• 44:25
  First we played in a basement, then we played in a school gymnasium, then a club, and then ultimately in what?
• 44:30
  Then you get to open for some Yeah.
• 44:32
  You know, secondary act and then you, you move up.
• 44:34
  You know, that just doesn't, that's not a thing anymore.
• 44:37
  No.
• 44:38
  What has someone said to you that will stick with you forever?
• 44:47
  Most recently in that last few years was, uh, the Grand Commander, um, at Biennial, uh, it'll be like four years ago now.
• 44:55
  And for our non Masonic listeners, that's the grand commander of Scottish rights.
• 44:59
  Of this Yeah.
• 44:59
  Of Scottish Rite, um, Southern jurisdiction.
• 45:02
  we had this talk about, what we can do and all these things, and he synthesized it down to the one thing he said, Lloyd.
• 45:12
  Be the best Mason you can be every day, and know that you'll fall short of that.
• 45:21
  And then, you know, I really believe in that kind of self-affirmation type stuff.
• 45:26
  When you, at the end of the day, you look in the mirror and go, all right, so what went well?
• 45:31
  How can I do better and what I'm going do tomorrow to make myself better Mason?
• 45:38
  And if we do that, we focus on actually doing those things.
• 45:43
  Uh, we can, uh, it, it's gets good advice.
• 45:45
  It's, uh, and it's not, it just, it doesn't just work for Masonry.
• 45:49
  It works for just being a, a good human being.
• 45:55
  In my Instagram feed, I saw a post that said the joy of small pleasures.
• 46:00
  We treat small pleasures like counterfeit currency.
• 46:04
  Joy is not proportionate to scale.
• 46:08
  Why can't something small be something great?
• 46:11
  Maybe the true richness of life is how much joy you can harvest from the smallest possible patch of soil.
• 46:17
  When you lower the threshold for joy, you don't just get more of it.
• 46:23
  You get it now.
• 46:27
  What should you take more time to appreciate?
• 46:31
  well, one, I would, I, I, I think that number one is, uh, I should take more time to appreciate, my creator and my God.
• 46:40
  Um, uh, even though that that's a big part of my day, I could not do enough for the blessings that he is bestowed upon me.
• 46:50
  The second thing would be to, take more time with your family.
• 46:55
  it's when you lose.
• 46:57
  Uh, I lost my mother, um, a couple years back and we went through a very long time of her being up and down with heart issues and things like that, and she lived a very full life up until like her, you know, 94th year.
• 47:11
  So it's not that.
• 47:14
  we didn't have a lot of time with her.
• 47:16
  But I live further away.
• 47:18
  I didn't always have the time to visit.
• 47:21
  And, um, take time with family.
• 47:24
  Spend time with friends.
• 47:26
  If you know you have a friend who is ailing or sick, go see them or at least call them.
• 47:34
  call your mom.
• 47:37
  It's advisable when you think of someone, reach out, send a text.
• 47:42
  How are you doing?
• 47:43
  There's a reason you're thinking of that person.
• 47:45
  Exactly.
• 47:48
  Lloyd Cheney, thank you for your service to our country.
• 47:52
  I really appreciate you, my friend.
• 47:54
  I appreciate you.
• 47:55
  Um, we, uh, we've definitely have, uh, a very, good friendship that's been forged in a lot of, a lot of, uh, cool masonic things that we've done together and, and, uh, it's just, uh, it's amazing to have you, there as a brother.
• 48:12
  We have made some extremely fun and very memorable Masonic memories over the years, and here's to many more.
• 48:20
  Absolutely.
• 48:21
  I.