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Episode Two Hundred Twenty Nine: True Bromance · The Death Of Journalism

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  Speaker 1: Welcome to episode two hundred and twenty nine of the
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  Speaker 1: Death of Journalism podcast. My name is John Zigler. I'm
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  Speaker 1: your host on today's show. Free speech becomes a major
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: issue in the news on multiple fronts. Why I'm feeling
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: better about the long term viability of the Donald Trump
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: elon musk romance, an analysis of the fiftieth anniversary of
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: SNL that you will not here elsewhere. USA Hockey suddenly
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: takes center stage, yet another major abuse allegation turns out
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  Speaker 1: to be false, and more on how Trump is brokering
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  Speaker 1: a deal between the PGA Tour and the Saudis. The
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  Speaker 1: biggest media moment of the last week was undoubtedly something
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  Speaker 1: that happened on CBS's Face the Nation last Sunday when
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  Speaker 1: host Margaret Brennan, who has been in the news when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to examples of media bias numerous times in
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  Speaker 1: the last year or so, particularly when she co hosted
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  Speaker 1: the vice presidential debate last year, and she was interviewing
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  Speaker 1: Secretary of State Marco Rubio, and a remarkable series of
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  Speaker 1: events happened. But before I get to what actually occurred,
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  Speaker 1: there needs to be some backdrop here. First of all,
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  Speaker 1: you have to understand that CBS paramount sixty minutes, as
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  Speaker 1: part of that group, is currently being sued by Rubio's boss,
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  Speaker 1: Donald Trump, and there are rumors and reports that CBS
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  Speaker 1: is about to settle that lawsuit for election interference related
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  Speaker 1: to the editing of the Kamala Harris sixty minutes interview
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  Speaker 1: last year, which was wrong. It was mediam malpractice. I
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  Speaker 1: don't think it was illegal. I don't know what the
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  Speaker 1: definition of election interference is. Does this mean you're never
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  Speaker 1: allowed to broadcast edited interviews anymore? I mean, the mind
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  Speaker 1: boggles as to the implications of this, And I certainly
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  Speaker 1: don't think that the sitting president of the United States
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  Speaker 1: should be suing major media outlets, especially over something that's
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  Speaker 1: pretty frivolous. I understand it's not frivolous from a substantive standpoint,
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  Speaker 1: but I'm talking about from a legal perspective. But there's
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  Speaker 1: a lot of angst within CBS News that their bosses
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  Speaker 1: are going to cave to Trump just like ABC did,
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  Speaker 1: just like Meta did, and that this is going to
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  Speaker 1: make them look very, very bad, and that this is
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  Speaker 1: going to have a chilling effect on their quote unquote
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  Speaker 1: journalism during the Trump administration. So that's part of the
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  Speaker 1: backdrop of this remarkable situation that occurred between Brennan and Rubio.
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  Speaker 1: But for further context, I need to take you back
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  Speaker 1: further than that, or at least from a timeline perspective,
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  Speaker 1: and that is that the subject of Vice President JD.
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  Speaker 1: Vance's speech in Europe, specifically in Munich, Germany, which happens
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  Speaker 1: to be where my father was born and I guess
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  Speaker 1: when he grew up. I was also born in Germany,
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  Speaker 1: in Heidelberg when my father was in the US military
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  Speaker 1: stations in Heidelberg. But that's another story for another day. Anyway,
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  Speaker 1: Jade Vance was in Munich, Germany, and he gave a
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  Speaker 1: very controversial speech ripping to shreds the European culture, specifically
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  Speaker 1: when it came to the issue of free speech, and
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  Speaker 1: how so much of Europe is caving in on the
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  Speaker 1: entire concept of free speech, specifically Great Britain and also
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  Speaker 1: Germany and based almost the entire continent has fallen when
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  Speaker 1: it comes to this primary principle of democracy of freedom
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  Speaker 1: of expression. And some people were very upset by Vance's speech,
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  Speaker 1: especially those in Europe, but a lot of people, especially
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  Speaker 1: here in America, especially Trump fans absolutely loved this speech.
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  Speaker 1: And here's a couple of minutes of it, just to
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  Speaker 1: give you a flavor of JD. Vans taking the European
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  Speaker 1: leadership to the woodshed when it comes to the topics
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  Speaker 1: that are related to free speech.
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  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, when I look at Europe today, it's sometimes
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  Speaker 2: not so clear what happened to some of the Cold
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  Speaker 2: Wars winners. I looked to Brussels, where EU Commission commissars
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  Speaker 2: warned citizens that they intend to shut down social media
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  Speaker 2: during times of civil unrest the moment they spot what
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  Speaker 2: they've judged to be quote, hateful content. Or to this
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  Speaker 2: very country where police have carried out raids against citizens
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  Speaker 2: suspected of posting anti feminist comments online as part of
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  Speaker 2: quote combating misogyny on the Internet a day of action.
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  Speaker 1: I looked to Sweden. We're two weeks.
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  Speaker 2: Ago the government convicted a Christian activist for participating in
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  Speaker 2: Kuran burnings that resulted in his friend's murder, and as
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  Speaker 2: the judge in his case chillingly noted, Sweden's laws to
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  Speaker 2: supposedly protect free expression do not in fact grant and
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  Speaker 2: I'm quoting a free pass to do or say anything
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  Speaker 2: without risking offending the group that holds that belief, and
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  Speaker 2: perhaps most concerningly, I look to our very dear friends
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  Speaker 2: the United Kingdom, where the backslide away from conscience rights
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  Speaker 2: has placed the basic liberties of religious Britons in particular
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  Speaker 2: in the crosshairs.
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  Speaker 1: A little over two years ago.
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  Speaker 2: The British government charged Adam Smith Conner, a fifty one
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  Speaker 2: year old physiotherapist and an Army veteran, with the heinous
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  Speaker 2: crime of standing fifty meters from an abortion clinic and
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  Speaker 2: silently praying for three minutes, not obstructing anyone, not interacting
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  Speaker 2: with anyone, just silently praying on his own. After British
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  Speaker 2: law enforcement spotted him and demanded to know what he
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  Speaker 2: was praying, Adam replied simply, it was on behalf of
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  Speaker 2: the unborn son he and his former girlfriend had aboarded
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  Speaker 2: years before. Now the officers were not moved. Adam was
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  Speaker 2: found guilty of breaking the government's new buffer zones law,
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  Speaker 2: which criminalized a silent prayer and other actions that could
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  Speaker 2: influence a person's decision within two hundred meters of an
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  Speaker 2: abortion facility. He was sentenced to pay thousands of pounds
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  Speaker 2: in legal costs.
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  Speaker 1: To the prosecution.
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  Speaker 3: Now.
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  Speaker 2: I wish I could say that this was a fluke,
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  Speaker 2: a one off, crazy example of a badly written law
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  Speaker 2: being enacted against a single person.
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  Speaker 4: But no.
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  Speaker 2: This last October, just a few months ago, the Scottish
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  Speaker 2: government began distributing letters to citizens whose houses lay within
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  Speaker 2: so called safe access zones, warning them that even private
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  Speaker 2: prayer within their own homes may amount to breaking the law. Naturally,
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  Speaker 2: the government urged readers to report any fellow citizens suspected
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  Speaker 2: guilty of thought crime. In Britain and across Europe, free speech,
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  Speaker 2: I fear is in retreat.
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  Speaker 1: Now, buy in large vance is absolutely right here. I
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  Speaker 1: wish that we didn't live in such a glass house
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  Speaker 1: on this topic, because I don't think we're doing a
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  Speaker 1: particularly good job on free speech. I know Elon Musk
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  Speaker 1: obviously has tried to change the game on that and
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  Speaker 1: there have been some improvements. And clearly Musk is a
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  Speaker 1: champion of free speech, and he's a massive portion, obviously
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  Speaker 1: of the Trump administration. I'm not a big fan of
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  Speaker 1: the Trump administration or Donald Trump himself when it comes
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  Speaker 1: to the free speech topic, but I certainly do trust
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  Speaker 1: Elon Musk. That being said, we have a lot of problems.
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  Speaker 1: You know, this is supposed to be a bedrock of
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  Speaker 1: who we are. It's our first amendment. And I'm not
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  Speaker 1: just talking about, you know, the First Amendment. When I
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  Speaker 1: say free speech, it's an entire value system. It's a
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  Speaker 1: principle of free speech. And I'm not sure that the
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  Speaker 1: modern Republican, already under Donald Trump, really truly believes in it.
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  Speaker 1: But Musk is clearly a fighter, and he has lived it,
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  Speaker 1: and he has walked the walk and talked to talk
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  Speaker 1: and buying Twitter clearly was a massive win for free speech.
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  Speaker 1: But I still don't think that America isn't a place
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  Speaker 1: where we ought to be on this, and so that
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  Speaker 1: would be I think one of the potential weaknesses in
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  Speaker 1: Vance's argument. But you know, for him to be lecturing
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  Speaker 1: Europe about this, but there's no question, no question that
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  Speaker 1: this is a huge issue and that Europe is falling,
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  Speaker 1: if not already has fallen, when it comes to this
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  Speaker 1: primary principle of democracy in Western civilization. So it was
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  Speaker 1: in that context that Margaret Brennan had an exchange with
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  Speaker 1: Marco Rubio over this. I guess you would call it
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  Speaker 1: the issue a free speech but bizarrely Brennan tried to
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  Speaker 1: make the argument, and I think she was doing so
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  Speaker 1: in an effort to try to attack jd Vance. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: and she clearly seems to have some sort of animus
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  Speaker 1: towards jd Vance. I don't know if it goes back
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  Speaker 1: to that vice presidential debate or what have you, but
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  Speaker 1: she really stretched here in an extraordinary way to try
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  Speaker 1: to paint jd Vance as effectively being sympathetic to essentially
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  Speaker 1: Nazi causes. She didn't say that, but that's effectively what
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  Speaker 1: she said. And then it got even stranger where she
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  Speaker 1: tries to make the argument that free speech is what
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  Speaker 1: led the Nazi Germany and the Holocaust. And kudos to
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  Speaker 1: Mark or Rubio, the guy who I supported for president
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  Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. Boy, would in the world have been
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  Speaker 1: a different place if that had worked out as it
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  Speaker 1: should have. But Mark Rubio does an extraordinary job of
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  Speaker 1: instantaneously pushing back, very effectively against this very strange statement
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  Speaker 1: by Margaret Brennan. And here's what it's satellite on CBS
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  Speaker 1: has faced the nation.
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  Speaker 3: And so I think if anyone's angry about his word,
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  Speaker 3: they don't have to agree with him, but to be
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  Speaker 3: angry about it. I think actually makes this point. I
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  Speaker 3: thought it was actually a pretty historic speech. Whether you
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  Speaker 3: agree with him or not, I think the valid points
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  Speaker 3: he's making to Europe is we are concerned that the
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  Speaker 3: true values that we share, the values that bind us
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  Speaker 3: together with Europe, are things like free speech and democracy
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  Speaker 3: and our shared history in winning two World Wars and
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  Speaker 3: defeating Soviet communism and the like. These are the values
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  Speaker 3: that we shared in common and in that court where
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  Speaker 3: we fought against things like censorship and oppression and so forth.
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  Speaker 3: And when you see backsliding and you raise that, that's
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  Speaker 3: a very valid concern. We can't tell him how to
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  Speaker 3: run their countries. He's simply expressed in a speech his
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  Speaker 3: view of it, which a lot of people frankly share.
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  Speaker 3: And I thought he said a lot of things in
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  Speaker 3: that speech that needed to be said, and honestly, I
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  Speaker 3: don't know why anybody would be upset about it. People
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  Speaker 3: are allowed, you know, you don't have to agree with
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  Speaker 3: someone's speech. I happen to agree with a lot of
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  Speaker 3: what he said, but you don't have to agree with
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  Speaker 3: someone's speech to at least appreciate the fact they have
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  Speaker 3: a right to say it. And then you should listen
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  Speaker 3: to it and see whether those criticisms are valid. I
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  Speaker 3: assure you the United States has come under withering criticism
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  Speaker 3: on many occasions from many leaders in Europe, and we
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  Speaker 3: don't go around throwing temper tantrums about it.
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  Speaker 5: Well, he was standing in a country where free speech
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  Speaker 5: was weaponized to entuct a genocide, and he met with
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  Speaker 5: the head of a political party that has far right
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  Speaker 5: views and some historic ties to extreme groups. The context
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  Speaker 5: of that was changing the tone of it, and you
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  Speaker 5: know that that the censorship.
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  Speaker 3: I disagree with you specifically about the right. Now I
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  Speaker 3: have to disagree with you. The free speech was not
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  Speaker 3: used to conduct the genocide. The genocide was conducted by
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  Speaker 3: an authoritarian Nazi regime that happened to also be genocidal
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  Speaker 3: because they hated Jews, and they hated minorities, and they
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  Speaker 3: hated those that they had a list of people they hated,
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  Speaker 3: but primarily the Jews. There was no free speech in
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  Speaker 3: Nazi Germany. There was none. There was also no opposition
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  Speaker 3: in Nazi Germany. They were a sole and only party
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  Speaker 3: that governed that country. So that's not an accurate reflection
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  Speaker 3: of history. I also think it's wrong again. I go
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  Speaker 3: back to the point of his speech. The point of
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  Speaker 3: his speech was basically that there is an erosion in
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  Speaker 3: free speech and in tolerance or opposing points of view
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  Speaker 3: within Europe. And that's of concern because that is eroding.
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  Speaker 3: It's not an erosion of your military capabilities, that's not
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  Speaker 3: an erosion of your economic standing. That's an erosion of
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  Speaker 3: the actual values that bind us together in the Transatlantic
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  Speaker 3: Union that everybody talks about. And I think allies and
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  Speaker 3: friends and partners that have worked together now for eighty
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  Speaker 3: years should be able to speak frankly to one another
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  Speaker 3: in open forums without being offended, insulted.
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  Speaker 1: Or upset.
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  Speaker 3: And I spoke to foreign ministers from multiple countries throughout Europe.
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  Speaker 3: Many of them probably didn't like the speech. I didn't
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  Speaker 3: agree with it, but they were continuing to engage with
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  Speaker 3: us on all sorts of issues that unite us. So again,
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  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, I think that people
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  Speaker 3: give all that is a form in which you're supposed
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  Speaker 3: to be inviting people to give speeches, not basically a
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  Speaker 3: chorus where everyone is saying the exact same thing. That's
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  Speaker 3: not always going to be the case when it's a
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  Speaker 3: collection of democracies where leaders have the right and the
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  Speaker 3: privilege to speak their minds and forms such as these.
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  Speaker 5: Mister, I'm told that we are out of time now.
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  Speaker 1: That clip went viral and rightly created an awful lot
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  Speaker 1: of outrage, especially on the right, a lot of confusion
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  Speaker 1: over what the hell Margaret Brennan was even trying to say.
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  Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, it's hard for me
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  Speaker 1: to provide full analysis of this because I don't even
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  Speaker 1: understand it. I really don't understand what she was trying
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  Speaker 1: to say. My only guess is that she was reaching
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  Speaker 1: so hard to find something with which to attack jd
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  Speaker 1: Vance that this is the best that she could come
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  Speaker 1: up with. And let's face it, with all the cutbacks
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  Speaker 1: throughout the entire legacy media, there are not nearly as
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  Speaker 1: many good producers as they used to be to put
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  Speaker 1: a stop to this kind of thing, to make sure
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  Speaker 1: that her questions were fully vetted and that people had
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: spoken to her about where she was going to go
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: in any particular circumstance when it came to the Rubio interview,
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  Speaker 1: and she was obviously not prepared. That's the best interpretation
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  Speaker 1: of what transpired here, But I really don't even understand
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  Speaker 1: what she's trying to say. It doesn't even make any
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  Speaker 1: sense to me. So the Nazis used free speech to
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  Speaker 1: take over Germany, and that's why we had the Holocaust.
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  Speaker 1: I again, it's impossible for me to even fully understand
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  Speaker 1: what she was saying, and a lot of people, including myself,
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  Speaker 1: were strongly implying that she should be this is a
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  Speaker 1: fireable offense. Now, I don't think she's gonna be fired.
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  Speaker 1: It hasn't happened yet. There's, to my knowledge, no even
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  Speaker 1: talk internally of any sort of reprimand against Brennan. But
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  Speaker 1: that's the nature of the culture of the legacy news
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  Speaker 1: media now. I mean, you know, we're living in two
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  Speaker 1: very different worlds, the right wing world in the left
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  Speaker 1: wing world of the legacy news media. And so I
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  Speaker 1: don't know that she's even gonna have any internal repercussions,
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  Speaker 1: but she should. There should be accountability because that was
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  Speaker 1: absolutely embarrassing. And Mark Rubio one hundred percent handled that
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  Speaker 1: situation fantastically, and that was not an easy circumstance to
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  Speaker 1: deal with because he had to be confused too. He
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  Speaker 1: had to be And I've been in similar situations on
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  Speaker 1: live television and you're you're not one hundred percent sure?
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  Speaker 1: Did I just hear what I think I heard? And
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  Speaker 1: you don't want to, you know, go out of your
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: way to create a moment unless you're one hundred percent
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  Speaker 1: sure you're right and you didn't mishear it or misinterpret it,
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  Speaker 1: or is she referring? I kept thinking, are we going
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  Speaker 1: to hear something that she's referring to that I'm not
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  Speaker 1: aware of? I mean, maybe giving her way too much credit,
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  Speaker 1: Like what was the basis of her argument? What was
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  Speaker 1: the basis of her question? And so I was very
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  Speaker 1: impressed that Rubio. It's one thing to think, you know,
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  Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. And Rubio could have just
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  Speaker 1: made a weird expression to show the audience that he
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  Speaker 1: was confused by where she was going, but he went
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  Speaker 1: way further than this, and he immediately rebutted her. I
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  Speaker 1: guess you would call it an argument for lack of
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  Speaker 1: a better term. And so Rubio really impressed me there,
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  Speaker 1: and I thought that was a fantastic job by him.
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  Speaker 1: But maybe the most bizarre part of this whole situation
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  Speaker 1: was the timing of it. Now, I don't believe this
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  Speaker 1: was on purpose. I really don't, because I don't think
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  Speaker 1: these people are this competent. Maybe there is a possibility
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  Speaker 1: that this was in Margaret Brennan's mind, because maybe she
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: was aware of what sixty minutes was doing on CBS
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: later that day. I mean, that's certainly very plausible. So
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  Speaker 1: maybe that had some sort of impact on how and
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: why Brennan did this. But it just so happened that
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  Speaker 1: that night, Sunday Night, sixty Minutes did an entire segment softballing,
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  Speaker 1: and I mean softballing the dramatic, absurd and very dangerous
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  Speaker 1: overreach by the German government when it comes to cracking
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  Speaker 1: down on free speech. I mean, this was almost a parody.
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  Speaker 1: A few years ago, I would have thought that the
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: sixty Minutes piece was a parody of how the left
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: simply does not respect free speech. And it's always baffled
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  Speaker 1: me as to how it is that the mainstream news media,
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  Speaker 1: how you can get to sixty minutes and be a
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  Speaker 1: sixty minutes corresponded and not value free speech as a concept.
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  Speaker 1: It's the the entire foundation of journalism. But what I
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: have come to believe, especially am younger quote unquote journalists,
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  Speaker 1: is that they are so enraged that might be too
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  Speaker 1: strong a word, but they're so upset by the fact
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  Speaker 1: that they have lost the monopoly and that the establishment
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  Speaker 1: has lost the monopoly over what is so called truth
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  Speaker 1: and who's allowed to speak in a way that is
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  Speaker 1: heard by the mainstream. They have lost that. They've lost
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  Speaker 1: that because of social media. They've lost that in America,
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  Speaker 1: because of the rise of the right wing media. They've
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  Speaker 1: lost that because they themselves have lost so much credibility
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  Speaker 1: and trust that their audiences have shrunk and very few
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  Speaker 1: people outside of their core audience still look to them
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  Speaker 1: with any real trust and belief in what they're doing.
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  Speaker 1: So that, I mean that is the story of the
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: news media, especially in the Trump era, especially in the
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: post COVID panic era, is the massive loss of trust
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  Speaker 1: in the news media, especially by conservatives. So in this country,
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  Speaker 1: they have certainly lost their monopoly. And that's the only
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  Speaker 1: semi logical explanation I can come up with for why
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  Speaker 1: it is that people like this CBS correspondent that you're
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  Speaker 1: about to hear from a woman who is interviewing German
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  Speaker 1: prosecutors about the crackdown on freedom of expression. I'm talking
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  Speaker 1: about basic stuffs here, basic stuff, talking about what's an insult,
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  Speaker 1: you know what's racist, you know what's a lie, that's
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  Speaker 1: a I mean, are we really not upset as a
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: journalist not upset by the idea that that prosecutors from
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  Speaker 1: the from a government can decide what is an insult
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  Speaker 1: and what is a lie and then exert real legitimate punishment,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: sometimes jailing people going on raids to their houses with
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: police because they posted a meme on the internet. I mean,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not even sure Hitler would have been capable of
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: this kind of stuff with regard to free speech. Of course,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: according to Margaret Brennan, he was a big free speech guy.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So I mean, this is this is just craziness that
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that there's no concern here at all about where this leads.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's one thing. In my view, these are
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: two totally different worlds. There's a world where okay, if
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: everything was perfect, would you want a world where you
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: could somehow punish insults and lies? I can at least
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: somewhat understand why that would appeal to some people. But
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: then there's the second part of this equation, which is
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: how do you possibly implement that without their being abuse
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: When you give the government the power to decide what's
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: an insult, what racism is, and what is a lie
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a truth? It's over because those are inherently obviously, very
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: very subjective, and they can determine anything they want to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: be a criminal offense, and therein lies the real problem.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: But apparently that's completely beyond the comprehension of this particular
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: sixty minutes corresponded as she interviewed several I think three
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: German prosecutors and was basically giddy even in this incredibly
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: telling moment where it just kind of gets laid out
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: as to what's a crime in Germany.
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: Is it a crime to insult somebody in public, Yes, yes,
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: and it's a crime to insult them online as well.
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 21:43
  Speaker 7: The fine could be even higher if you insult someone
• 21:48
  Speaker 7: in the internet, because in Internet it stays there. If
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: we are talking you face to face, you insult me
• 21:55
  Speaker 7: and soult you, okay, finish. But if you in the internet,
• 21:58
  Speaker 7: if I insilt you or a police.
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: That sticks around forever. Yeah, the prosecutors explain. German law
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: also prohibits the spread of malicious gossip, violent threats, and
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: fake quotes. If somebody posts something that's not true and
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: then somebody else reposts it or likes it. Are they
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: committing a crime?
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: In the case of reposting it as a crime as well,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: because the reader con't distinguished whether you just invented this
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: or just reposted it. That's the same for us.
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: The punishment for breaking hate speech laws can include jail
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: time for repeat offenders. Is it a crime to insult
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: somebody in public? Yes, yes, and it's a crime to
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: insult them online as well.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 22:43
  Speaker 7: The fine could be even higher if you insult someone
• 22:48
  Speaker 7: in the Internet. Why because in Internet it stays there.
• 22:52
  Speaker 7: If we are talking face to face, you insult me
• 22:55
  Speaker 7: and sold you okay, finish. But if you in the internet,
• 22:58
  Speaker 7: if I insilt you or a politician.
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: That sticks around forever, the prosecutors explain. German law also
• 23:06
  Speaker 6: prohibits the spread of malicious gossip, violent threats, and fake quotes.
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: If somebody posts something that's not true and then somebody
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: else reposts it or likes it, are they committing a crime?
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: And the case of reposting it is a crime as well,
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: because the reader contstinguished whether you just invented this or
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: just reposted it. That's the same for us.
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: The punishment for breaking hate speech laws can include jail
• 23:33
  Speaker 6: time for repeat offenders.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: That's chilling. That is absolutely chilling if you understand human
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: nature and if you believe in the concept of freedom
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: of expression and you're concerned about governmental overreach, especially in
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: a place like Germany. And let's be clear, it's not
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: just Germany, you know, as JD. Van said, it's really
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: swept through most of not all, of Europe. Great brain
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and is frankly more shocking to me given their history
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: than Germany is. But this is something that I have
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: seen coming for a very long time. I'm a big
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: believer in the slippery slope, and I don't think there's
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: been any greater vindication of the slippery slope. And I've
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: always said there's no slippery or slope than when it
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: comes to free speech. And I'm a big believer in
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: that entire concept. And it has been one hundred percent
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: vindicated in Europe. And it began basically earlier in this
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: I would I would you know, in my recollection it
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: was early two thousands where all of a sudden Europe
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: started to do things like making Holocaust denial illegal. And
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: I don't remember what year that started to happen, but
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: it was in that realm of the turn of the century,
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: and in conjunction with that, they also made it illegal
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to express any sort of racism at soccer games. And
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: those are two issues where it's impossible, especially in the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: PC world, to stand up and go, wait, I mean,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I'm in favor of people denying the Holocaust or I'm
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in favor of soccer racism, and I truly believe that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: those particular subjects were chosen because no one was gonna
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: stand up against them. But that's where the slippery slope begins.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You start with Holocaust denial and racism at soccer games,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, twenty years or so later,
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: you can't post a meme on the internet it turns
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: out to be false. It's're gonna get punished by the
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: government and maybe go to jail. I mean, that's the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: slippery slope in action. That's why you don't make laws
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: like even the ones that sound good, like you can't
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: deny the Holocaust because wait, we don't want to have
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Nazi Germany again. And if we people from denying Holocaust,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: or if you banned people from you know, being pro
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Nazi or expressing pro Nazi beliefs, then that'll fix it. Well, no,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that doesn't work. I mean in a weird way. I'm not,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: to be clear, not comparing Trump to Hitler or Nazi Germany.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: But we saw what happened after Trump got knocked off
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: of Twitter and Facebook and then had all the lawfair
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: against him, he became president, and in large part because
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: of that, at least, that was a major element of
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: his narrative. People didn't like that he was seen as
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: a fighter going up against the establishment. So trying to
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: ban something, usually in this situation, especially when it comes
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: to free speech, is going to have negative repercussions. And
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: to me, that's what in the that's the short story
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: of what has happened in Europe. It may have begun
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: with good intentions, but it has turned out to be
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: absolutely horrendous. And this sixty minutes piece on the heels
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: of what happened on CBS's faced the nation that morning
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: was an absolute abomination, not just journalistically but from the
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: standpoint of their view of history, their view of Western civilization,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and their value system. It was completely wrong and very,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: very troubling. But here's where I get conflicted again, because
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: when we turned to the United States and we turned
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: to Donald Trump, who a lot of his fans, partially
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: because of Elon Musk, see as a champion of these principles.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: I don't see that. I see a very different story.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: I see a story that is not that dissimilar to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: some of what we're seeing in Europe. Because it was
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: that very same weekend when Donald Trump tweeted out a
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: quote from Napoleon. He said, he who saves his country
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: does not violate any law. He who saves his country
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: does not violate any law. Apparently a quote from Napoleon.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: By the way, I wonder if Trump understands how it
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: all turned out for France and Napoleon. Could someone please
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: give Trump a history laughing on this, but let's forget
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: about the fact that it came from Napoleon and the
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: problematic element of that he who saves his country does
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: not violate any law. This is a tweet that, as
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: of a couple days ago I haven't checked. I'm sure
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: it's larger than this now had two hundred and twenty
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: five million impressions, two and twenty five million Twitter calls
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: it views. I think it's a bit more as impressions,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: but regardless, that is an insane number of people have
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: seen Trump's tweet. He who saves his country does not
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: violate any law, and it was widely interpreted, including by myself,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that this was a way for Trump to push back
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: against those that are saying that he's acting like a king,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: that he's usurping congressional authority, that he's he's wielding executive
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: power and through executive orders far too much. He's going
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: around Congress and he's exerting authority that he technically doesn't
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: have under the Constitution. That's I think a rational way
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of understanding why Trump would do this. Because Trump does
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: not tweet very often. He posts on so on true
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: social but this was an actual tweet on x and
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: that's why I got so many views and impressions. That
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: is an absolutely chilling statement from the President of the
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: United States, and any true conservative should be extremely disturbed
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: by that. Now, of course, Trump benefits, as I've said
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: many times, from the fact that if you like him,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: you're just gonna go Ugh, Trump's being so funny there.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: He's just trolling the left. Ah, isn't that hilarious? And
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: you know what, maybe that's what he's doing there. Maybe
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: maybe I guess that's what I'm hoping for, but I
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: don't know that for sure, because it's certainly consistent with
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: his actions. I mean, that's my number one concern about
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: this first portion of Trump two point zero is that
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: we are blowing up our processes. We're blowing up a
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: lot of what we pretend to believe in this constitutional,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: democratic republic that we don't believe in kings. He's absolutely
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: acting as a king. Now you might like a lot
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: of it. I like a lot of it, but it's
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: still very trouble like, especially considering the fact, you know what,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: in three years, three and a half years, we could
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: have a democratic administration that's gonna go hog wild using
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the exact same, uh, you know, principles that Trump blew up.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: This is just going to be a downward spiral that
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: has no end, where one side gets power and they
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: try to up the other side. And this is you know,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: we are a nation of laws, not men. That's you know,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: that would be the rebuttal to what Trump said there,
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: we are a nation of laws, not men, and he's saying,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: he who saves his country does not violate any law. Well,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: how do we know that?
• 31:33
  Speaker 8: You know?
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: It's a bit like, how do you determine, you know,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: when it comes to free speech, what's an insult or
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: what's a lie? What's the truth? Well, how do we
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: know you're saving the country. We're supposed to put all
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: of our faith in one man, you and trust that
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: you know what's best for the country when we're not
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: even in a crisis current. I get, you know, if
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: you're in a massive crisis, and sometimes the laws of
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: the principles might have to be put aside for a
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: moment to deal with a crisis. But we're not in
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: that situation currently. So I had a big problem, a
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: big problem with Trump tweeting he who saves his country
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: does not violate any law, because that is extremely problematic.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: That is the declaration of a king, and that's rule
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: number one of the United States of America. We don't
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: do kings, at least we didn't used to. And Conservatives
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: or Republicans or whatever they're called now, used to understand that,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: used to believe in that, But apparently we don't. And
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: it's not just theoretical. We saw a great example of
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: something that if it had occurred in a democratic administration,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: with everything being exactly the same or flipped on its head,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Republicans would rightly be going bananas right now, And in fact,
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: some Republicans are going bananas, but very very few. However,
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: they're the ones that should actually matter here if we
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: lived in a rational world where truth was still the
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: currency instead of popularity. I'm referring here to the fact
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: that Eric Adams, the mayor of New York, has had
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: the federal case against him, the corruption case against him,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: dropped by the Trump administration. Now, this is something that
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: was as easy to predict, maybe even easier than Joe
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Biden pardoning his son Hunter actor saying that he would
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: not do so. I predicted that many other people predicted
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: it long before it happened. Well, it's been bubbling underneath
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: the surface for quite a while that Eric Adams has
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: been publicly lobbying for some if not a pardon or
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: a commutation or well, they can't have a commutation because
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: he hasn't been convicted of anything. But the point is
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: that Eric Adams has been kissing Trump's butt at every
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: opportunity in an effort to try to get around these
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: federal corruption charges, including being willing to do his bidding
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: when it comes to enforcement against illegal immigration in New
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: York City, and it worked because the case has been dropped.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: But the case was not dropped without controversy. There were
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: resignations within the US Attorney's office over this, including one
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: very high profile resignation from Assistant US Attorney Hagen Scott,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: who I urge you, if you care about this at all,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: to look up their statement that they released declaring that
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: they were resigning in protest over the dropping of the
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: case against Eric Adams. And this person is a very
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: strong conservative. They clerked I believe under Scalia and Kavanaugh.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, they are a hardcore constitutional conservative and they
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: resigned in one of the most scathing resignation statements I
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: have ever seen because of the fact that the Eric
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Adams case was dropped for obvious political purposes. Now as
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: an actual conservative and a constitutional conservative, and I know
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of Trump media commentators like Mark Levin still
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: claimed to be that, but they really aren't. This is
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: a subject that should have people absolutely outraged, but we
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: don't do that on the right anymore. Because the King
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: is spoken. Eric Adams is now somehow more favorably viewed,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: just like Robert F. Kennedy Junior is now more favorably
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: viewed among MAGA world or the republican world. Trump world, then,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: like Pences, former Trump Vice president and hardcore conservative, that's
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: not an exaggeration because we're living in a monarchy. We're
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: living in a place where if the king blesses you,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: you are now part of the team. If the king
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: jettisons you, banishes you, no matter what your history, no
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: matter what your beliefs, no matter how or why it happened,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: whether the king was right or wrong, you are no
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: longer part of the team. That's not a democratic republic.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: That's a monarchy. And I salute Hagen Scott for doing
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: what they did because I talk all the time about
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: how we used to have this culture of people resigning
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: from their very prestigious and sometimes cushy gigs because something
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: very very wrong happened. Well, we don't do that anymore
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: because there's really no benefit to it. I mean, I
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: frankly think from a career standpoint, I don't know what
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: they have lined up, maybe, but this is probably not
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: a good move, especially in this day and age where
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: now they're gonna be seen even though they're politically conservative
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: philosophically conservative, they're gonna be seen as anti Trump. How's
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: that gonna work with regard to their job prospects moving forward,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: especially in government theoretically. I mean, that's just the one
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: small element of this. So kudos to them for standing
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: up because this smells the high hell. And I guarantee
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: you if a democratic and brand new democratic administration did
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: this to a rhino, you know, government officials somewhere that
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: was kissing their ass and clearly was trying to get
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: out of a federal investigation, and then it immediately got
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: dropped and they went on you know, in this case,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Adams went on Fox News Channel with the head of
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Immigration Enforcement to pledge his cooperation just as this was happening.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: If all that happened in reverse and this rhino went
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: on MSNBC to pledge cooperation with this new Democratic president
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden the federal case against them
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: got dropped, Republicans would be screaming bloody murder, and rightfully so.
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: And now we have a situation where everybody is showing
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: their hypocrisy because the governor of New York, Governor Hokeel
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: has publicly stated that they may take the extraordinary measure
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: of removing Adams as the mayor of New York, which
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: apparently I didn't even know this. I guess the Governor
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: of New York has some theoretical authority to do that.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: I have a real hard time believing that this is
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: actually gonna happen. Maybe it will, but if it does
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: so much for the Party of Democracy, right, I mean,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Adams got elected. He hasn't you know, he hasn't been
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: convicted of any crime. By the way, he's a black man.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: So the Democratic Party, the Party of Democracy, may remove
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: city mayor of New York, the largest city in America
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: because of why because he's helping the Trump administration and
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: force immigration policy. How's that gonna work? I mean, that's
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: the strange world. We're limited. There's nobody to root for here,
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: there's absolutely no one to root for. And there's another
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: case where there's no one to root for, and that
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: deals again with Donald Trump and his war on the press,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: And in this particular case, I'm referring to the Associated Press,
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: formerly prestigious mainstream Newsmania outlet, where they have refused to
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: accept that the Gulf of America, as Trump refers to it,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: is in fact the gol Golf of America. They are
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: still under the belief that this is the Golf of Mexico,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: but Trump has declared that the Golf of America. And weirdly,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the Associated Press and Trump have decided that this is
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: where they're gonna draw the line. This is where the hill,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: that this is the hill they're gonna die on. Is
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: that we will not cave in to the president. This
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: is the Associated Press's view. We will not cave into
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: the president on the issue of the Golf of America.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: We're gonna keep calling it the Golf of Mexico. And
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: Trump has now banned the Associated Press from basically having
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: any direct access to the president. They can't go into
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: the Oval Office, they can't go on Air Force one.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: They're still allowed in the press briefings, I believe, but
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: you know, their their access, especially to him directly, has
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: been effectively eliminated. And this is creating an enormous amount
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: of controversy in the news media. And I have to say,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: as someone who believes in journalistic principles and fighting for
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the fourth of State and the free press, my inclination
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: is to side with the Associated Press because I don't
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: like the idea that a president is punishing a major
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: legitimate news outlet simply because he doesn't like the fact
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: that they haven't accepted his renaming of a body of water.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: This feels very much like a king right. It wasn't
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: like it was a declaration of Congress. This was one
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: man declaring that the golf of Mexico was now the
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: golf of America, and now he's punishing a major media
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: outlet because they won't go along with that. So my
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: natural inclination would be, Okay, I'm signing with the Associated
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Press here, even though I don't like the Associated Press,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: but from a principal standpoint, that's where my natural inclination
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: would be. However, the associate the Press makes it extremely
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: difficult to side with them here. First of all, jd Vance,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: who is a very smart guy, has been arguing I
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: think a little too vociferously, but I understand where he's
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: coming from. He's been even in fact, got in an
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: argument with a reporter about this on x or Twitter,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: and his argument is, well, this is a privilege. This
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: is not a right to be able to go into
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: the Oval Office and Air Force one and have access
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: to the President, and so therefore this isn't that big
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of a deal. That's essentially JD Vance's argument, and I
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: understand where he's coming from. However, this is something that's
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: being taken away from the Associated Press clearly because of
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: their view on a topic that really is not very
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: important and is based essentially on, as I've already said,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: one man's action and the executive order to change the
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: name of the Golf of Mexico to the Golf of America.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: And so I'm not really sure this is a great hill.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: This is why I don't. I started this topic by
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: saying I don't have anyone to root for here because
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: I don't. Now that's a great hill to die on
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: when it comes to the Trump side of this equation,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: and I'm not sure it's a great hill to die
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: on from the Associated Press's perspective either. And my biggest
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: problem with the Associated Press here is, Okay, so your
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: argument is you're special, and you know you are the
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: bedrock of American journalism, which they have been for many
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: many years. You know, the Associated Press has been extremely powerful,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: very influential, very very respected for a very long time. However,
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: and you and your belief is that because you're special,
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't have privileges taken away from you. Okay, But
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: here's the problem. The Associative Press, like virtually every other
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: mainstream media outlet, has squawned the public trust so dramatically
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and so blatantly that I don't believe that they still
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: deserve to be treated in a way that would be
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: considered special, that they're any different than anybody else. So
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: you know, to whom much is given, much is expected, Well,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: you blew it. You blew it. You were no longer objective, nonpartisan,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: journalistically based just the facts. Man. That's not who the
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Associated Press is anymore, and hasn't been that way for
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: quite a while. So if you really cared about protecting
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: your special place where you're the Associated Press, of course
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: you have access to the Oval Office and to Air
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: Force one, then maybe you shouldn't have screwed that up
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: so badly. Maybe you shouldn't have squandered that special place
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: so many times over the la last however many years
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: you want to go back, especially when it comes to
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: several issues related to Donald Trump specifically, maybe you should
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: have considered that. So I really can't be on either
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: side here. I understand what the Associated Press is trying
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: to do here. It's interesting that some other mainstream media
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: members and outlets have come to their defense. Hilariously, former
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: CNN anchor Jim Acosta has said that he thinks that
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: the mainstream news media and solidarity with the Associated Press,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: should boycott coverage of Donald Trump. Oh my god, what
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: an idiot. That would be, like the greatest thing that
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: ever happened to Donald Trump, especially over this particular topic.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Because again, it's not like, yes, there's a concept here
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: that in the Associated Press's mind, they think they're being
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: punished because of their I guess you would call it
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: their free speech rights, that they're there have the free
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: speech rights to call that body of water the Golf
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: of Mexico. But it's not a topic that the general
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: public gives a crap about, and many, especially obviously Trump fans,
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: love the whole idea of Golf of America. So it's
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: not like you're standing on some incredibly moral subject here
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: or something that's really impacting people's lives. It's all theoretical,
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: and no one trusts you anymore, no one has any
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: belief in you anymore. So you know, I don't really
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: have a strong opinion on this either way. I don't
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: I think what the Trump team is doing. What Trump
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: himself is doing is petty. But then Trump fans will
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: say to you, well, look at what Biden did to
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: conservative media outlets, and I can't argue with that. You're right,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I hate the whole slippery slope, this
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: the downward spiral to oblivion. Where does this stop? This?
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: Tit for tat? I hate all that. But you know,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: there's no question that the Biden administration did some of
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: the similar stuff, not as dramatically. And they did it.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: It's not like they banned Fox News Channel because they
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: refuse to accept you know whatever, you know whatever belief system.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: That was the most important thing on their plate that day.
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: That didn't happen. But there were other conservative outlets that
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: were purged from being able to cover the White House.
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: There's so it's hard to argue. Again, if you don't
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: want that to happen to your side, then don't do
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: it when you have power. But unfortunately it's human nature
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: that that's not the way this thing is going to
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: go down. It's going to go down the opposite way,
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: especially when you have someone like Trump in charge here,
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: and you know, there's a real life impact to this,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: which may or may not have been part of Trump's strategy.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: As I've said a hundred times, you never know. Is
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Trump just getting lucky? Is he paying chess? Is he
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: playing checkers? Is he playing shoots and ladders? You're never
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure. But just this morning, before I
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: was about to tape this podcast, the Associated Press, as
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: others did, similarly, came out with a story that the
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: claims by Elon Musk and Donald Trump regarding the massive
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: amount of social Security fraud that they have found during
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: their DOGE investigation is greatly exaggerated. You've probably heard, oh
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: my god, there are millions and millions of people who
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: are over the age of one hundred who are still
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: getting Social Security benefits, which, of course, you know, the
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: implication is obvious that that's fraudulent. And the Associated Press
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: and others came out with a story saying, no, no,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk is misinterpreting some of this data, that they're
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: the problem that they are suggesting is greatly exaggerated. Now
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know the truth is here. The numbers that
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: must put out there seem hard for me to believe.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: So I have to acknowledge that I am and I've
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: said before that, I don't really trust what Elon Musk
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: tweets because I don't think he vets this stuff nearly
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: well enough. He just doesn't have enough time in the day.
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: It's got to be more than one Elon Musk. I mean,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: he tweets more than I do, and that it takes
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of my day so to be able to
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: make sure that what you're tweeting or posting is credible
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: and truth based. And I know he's got people working
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: for him, but I'm sorry, there's just too much on
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: his place. He's spread way too thin, and those numbers
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: fell insane to me. But of course they've already set
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: the predicate that people will believe almost anything when it
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: comes to how insane the spending has been in government,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: and so the right wing, the Trump fans, MAGA world.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: There's nothing Elon Musk could say when it comes to
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: government waste and corruption where Magaworld would go. Really, that
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem right. There's nothing because our expectations now have
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: been completely obliterated with some of the stuff that has
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: already come out, some of it true, some of it
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: not true, some of it we're not sure if it's
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: true or not. But my point here with regard to
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: this associated press controversy is I was looking at the
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: AP story, I'm like, Okay, they seem to have a
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: pretty credible perspective here that this is greatly exaggerated. But
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: I know nobody in magaworld is going to believe it.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: One because it's against their self interest to believe it.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: In two because it's the Associated Press. They're on the
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: banned media outlets list. Trump has made them an enemy.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: They won't say Golf of America. So how can anything
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: they report, especially about Donald Trump, be even remotely credible
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: or legitimate or truthful or to be trusted. It's not,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: and so Trump has effectively eviscerated the credibility of the
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Associated Press. Be clear, I'm not sure people fully understand this.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: The Associated press is usually it's not as much as
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: it used to be, but it's usually the basis for
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: which other mainstream news media outlets get their information. It's
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: at the core of the entire news system is the
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: associated Press. So if you can't trust the Associated Press,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: it's like, I don't know, it's like not trusting what
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the Weather Service says is the current temperature. I mean,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: the whole system collapses, and yet at least among his supporters, Trump,
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: either by design or by luck or somewhere in between,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: has now created a situation where it doesn't matter that
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: the Associated Press is saying that the social Security fraud
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: claims are exaggerated, because no one who matters to Trump
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: will believe that. And that's very, very depressing, it's very troubling.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: I'm someone who obviously despises the mainstream news media as
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: much as anybody, but that's not healthy. That is not
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: healthy at all. And so my guess, my number one
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: question is how do we ever get out of this?
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: How do we ever get out of this in a
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: way that's remotely healthy for a functioning society, because we
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: need a strong fourth estate that's part of the system
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: as it was created, and we don't have it, and
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: Trump has destroyed it for his own purposes, sometimes for
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: good and other times not necessarily for good. So that's
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the associated press situation. But you know, part of my
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: problem here, and there are many elements to this, is
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: that I just don't buy that from a principal perspective
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: that Trump team, or Trump himself or Trumpsters in general
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: are consistent about this. Let's take another free speech issue.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: This seems like a very small topic, but to me,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: this is important. So the head of the New York
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: University Republican club or group, a young woman, seemed very nice.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: She was forced to resign from her position as the
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: head of the New York University Republican Club. Why because
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: she had the audacity to refer to Baron Trump Trump's
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: new favorite son. I think he's usurped Donald Trump Junior
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: as Donald Trump's favorite son. That she referred to Baron Trump,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: who was attending NYU, as an oddity on campus. That's
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: what she said, He's an oddity referring to the fact
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: that he goes to class and then goes home. So
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: it's a little ambiguous to She means that it's odd
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: in that it's unusual to see him because he's not
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: around on campus. Or is it odd because his presence
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: as a six foot seven son of the President United
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: States creates an odd situation. I'm not sure, but it
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me because neither of those interpretations is
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: an insult to Baron Trump. It's just obviously basic logic.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's an oddity to see a six foot
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: seven son of the president in your university class. That's
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: all she said, and for some reason she felt forced
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: to resign. Now, human nature being what it is, there
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: had to be some pressure for her to do that.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: There's no reason why she would do that otherwise that
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: I'm aware of. And you know, my point here is
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: that there's a massive amount of hypocrisy when it comes
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: to the issue of free speech. And this is all
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: so consistent with a monarchy with a cult. This is
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: the type of thing that the people will demand if
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: we're living in a monarchy. Oh my gosh, a prince
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: might have been offended by There was no evidence that
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Baron Trump himself was offended by this very benign common
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: but a prince has potentially been offended, So therefore the
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: person who potentially offended them must be gotten rid of.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: That's not the kind of society I want to live in.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: That's not consistent with the beliefs that I thought we
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: believed in as Americans, especially as Republicans. Big deal, Why
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: would this happen. It only happens because there had to
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: be some pressure within that group that this was an
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: embarrassment to them, because, oh my god, we've spoke in
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: a way that could have been perceived as negative towards
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: the prince, and we're in a monarchy slash cult and
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: so therefore that's a mass of problem. And it's again,
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: it's not a big issue. Hopefully this woman will be okay.
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: I have no idea the details of the situation there,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: but it just to me was a bothersome set of
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: circumstances that it was related, especially to this whole issue
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: that Trump is viewed as a as a king or
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: a god. Because that's the only circumstance where this would happen.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: I could guarantee to you that would never have happened.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: If you know, one of George Bush's daughters was referred
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: to as an oddity on campus. There were never in
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: a million years would there have been enough pressure to
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: make sure that they were removed from their position if
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: anyone had said that during that era, because it wasn't
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: a monarchy, even though you know, there were people who
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: claimed that it was because obviously George Bush got the
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: job in part because of his dad. But even under
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: those circumstances, it wasn't. It wasn't lived out in the
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: same way that it is now where people have to
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: be removed from their positions simply because they spoke potentially
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: but not really ill of somebody. Now, as I always
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: do when it comes to the issue of Donald Trump,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: I try to be as objective as possible. I try
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: to praise when worthy, I try to defend when needed
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: and deserving, and I have a little bit of a
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: change in position when it comes to something that I
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: think is critical to how the Donald Trump two point
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: zero administration is going to go. I've referred several times
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: to the fact that the Donald Trump Elon Musk romance
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: is critical to how this will all turn out for
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: obvious reasons, and I've also said that it's very clear
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: that the news media understands this and that they're doing
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: everything they possibly can to break up the bromance between
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Elon Musk, most dramatically Time magazine putting
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk behind on Trump's desk in the Oval office
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: and putting that fake photo on the cover of their magazine.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: So I was very curious and very interested in the
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: fact that Trump and Musk decided to do an interview
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: together with Sean Hannity on Fox News Channel, and they
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: specifically addressed this issue of the media trying to break
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: up their relationship and how aware they are of that.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: And I thought that this exchange with Trump and Musk
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: with Sean Hannity was really interesting and very telling and
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: provided some optimism for the fact that they understand what
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: they're up against and that that may give them a
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: much better chance of surviving it. And here's what that
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: sounded like on Fox News Channel.
• 58:58
  Speaker 9: You have to be keenly aware that the media and
• 59:03
  Speaker 9: the punditry class not that you know. I think you've
• 59:06
  Speaker 9: proven they have no power anymore because they threw everything
• 59:09
  Speaker 9: they had at you and they didn't win. And that
• 59:12
  Speaker 9: was you know, the New York Times, Washington Post, three networks,
• 59:16
  Speaker 9: every late night comedy show, two cable channels.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: They just threw.
• 59:20
  Speaker 9: They threw everything, warfare, weaponization. And now I see they
• 59:26
  Speaker 9: want you to to start They want a divorce.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: They want you.
• 59:29
  Speaker 9: To to start hating each other. And they try. Oh
• 59:32
  Speaker 9: President Elon Musk, for example, you do know that they're
• 59:36
  Speaker 9: doing that to you.
• 59:37
  Speaker 8: Oh, I see it all the time. They tried it,
• 59:39
  Speaker 8: then they stopped. That wasn't They have many different things
• 59:42
  Speaker 8: of hatred. Actually, Elon called me, he said, you know,
• 59:46
  Speaker 8: they're trying to drive US apart. I said absolutely. Now
• 59:49
  Speaker 8: they said, we have breaking news. Donald Trump has seated
• 59:52
  Speaker 8: control of the presidency to Elon Musk. President Musk will
• 59:57
  Speaker 8: be attending a cabinet meeting at AFLO, And I say,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 8: it's just so obvious. They're so bad at it. I
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 8: used to think they were good at it. They're actually
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 8: bad at it. Because if they were good at it,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 8: I'd definitely be president. Because I think nobody in history
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 8: has ever gotten more bad publicity than me. I could
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 8: do the greatest things. I get ninety eight percent bad publicity.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 8: I could do outside of you a few of your
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 8: very good friends. It's like the craziest thing. But you
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 8: know what I have learned Eland the people are smart.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 8: They get it.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they do it. They get it.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 8: They really see what's happening.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: I thought that that exchange was outstanding. If you're someone
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: who is rooting for the Trump Musque relationship to survive
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: and maybe even prosper under this kind of pressure, you
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: should feel much better about things based upon first of
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: all the fact that Trump and Musque would do this
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: interview with handity together, and even more important than that,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: that they would directly address this is you and make
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: it clear that they are very very much aware of
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: what the media is trying to do, and given how
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: they both view the media, I think this may underline
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: may but I'm pretty optimistic about this right now, at
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: least into the foreseeable future. I think this may have
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: given them essentially force field protection against that relationship being
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: busted up because now they are both very personally invested
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: in the idea of not letting the media be successful
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: in this obvious quest. And that's huge. That's huge because
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: now it's almost as if their attempts to break up
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: the relationship are only going to make it stronger as
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: long as they can continue to keep clear communication and
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk doesn't misinterpret things or do things that he shouldn't.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: And that's always been my greatest concern about what was
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: going to eventually erode or potentially destroy the relationship is
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: Musk is so spread thin. I mean, he's got so
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: many things going on, and I keep thinking he's going
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: to tweet something based upon you know, lack of information
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: or without thinking it through, or without getting approval from Trump,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: because I mean, let's be clear, time is a huge
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: part of the problem here. Both Trump and especially Musk
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: are incredibly busy. So there's no chance that when Musk
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: is tweeting dozens and dozens of times a day and
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: reaching millions and millions of people, effectively having his own
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: massive media outlet, that he that he's not going to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: be able to pass something by Trump every single time.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: And my concern has always been what happens when he
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't think it through, misinterprets the situation, and Dazzler says
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: something that Trump doesn't like. Maybe he doesn't even realize
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Trump has changed his mind about something. Who knows, But
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: there's there's the situation is fraught with danger from that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: perspective because there's just no possible way for must I mean,
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: they'd be doing this all day long if Musk was
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: passing everything he was gonna do or say or retweet
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: by Donald Trump. It's just not logistically possible. But now,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: because they have gone through this, they're kind of they're
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: in this Fox Hall together and they've survived this initial attack.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: They have survived this initial attack, and now they realize,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: and they publicly stated that they realized that they those
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: two together, their relationship is under siege, that it's them
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: against the world. I think that that will enable them
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: to survive any sort of miscommunications or fumbles, especially on
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk's part, because obviously he's not the president, and
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: Trump's got the massive ego here, and Trump's got the insecurities.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: So the most logical scenario where trouble would occur is
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Musk oversteps his bounds and Trump gets pissed off about it,
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and that creates a downward spiral. I think that the
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: fact that they have survived this initial salvo, this initial
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: attack by the news media, and they've both realized what
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: they're up against and they have publicly stated it. I
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: think this is that's a strong relationship, that is a
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: firm foundation from which to work, and the news media,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: as has happened so often with Trump, their efforts appear
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to at least right now, to be backfiring. They've actually
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: made the Trump Musk relationship stronger. And part of why
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: I feel so passionately about this is I've kind of
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I don't want to put myself anywhere close to their level,
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: but I do think that there's an analogy to be
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: made here in a situation that I myself have lived through.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: I've spoken many times about my relationship with the late
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: great Frank o'harris Pro Football Hall of Famer Pittsburgh Steeler
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Penn Stater. And again, just to be clear, I'm not
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: putting this situation on the level of Trump or Musk,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: but I do think you're going to see some interesting
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: comparisons to what happened here. I have discussed many times
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: about how Franco and I had this growing relationship that
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: Scott Paterno, the son of Joe Paterno, tried to destroy
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: for his own selfish political purposes. He wanted to kill me,
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: and he saw, at least in his mind, that my
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: relationship with Franco was huge when it came to how
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: I was viewed in the Penn State community. I don't
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: even know if that's true or not. I never even
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: thought about it in that way, but in Scott Paterno's tiny,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: distorted mind, that was a big deal. And on the
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: With the Benefit of Hindsight podcast, we played a clip
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: from a phone call that I had with Scott Paterno
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: where he directly threatens my relationship with Franco Harris and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I thought, because the relationship was fairly new at the time,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: we hadn't been in a Fox hole together nearly as
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: much as we would end up being. I figured, okay,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: that's the end of it. You know, Scott's going to
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: go to Franco or probably have his mom, Sue go
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: to Frankocus. Sue's a lot closer to Franco than he is,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: and he's a coward, so he's probably gonna have his
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: mom do it for him, and that'll be the end.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: And so you may recall I called frank Coharris up
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: and I said, Franco, we got a problem. Scott is
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: gonna publicly attack me and try to, you know, criticize
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: you for being close to me. I don't know exactly
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: what I said, something to that effect, and I just
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: want you to know, you know, it's perfectly fine for
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: you to throw me under the bus. I get it,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: I understand it. And that's when he, you know, in
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: my mind, very famously interrupted me and said, John, I
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: am independent. You do what you need to do to
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: find the truth. And that is always stuck with me.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: And you know, it's probably why I ended up staying
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: on the Penn State case as long as I have,
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: because that was a moment that evoked an enormous amount
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: of loyalty towards Franco. On my part, I was stunned
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: by that, especially given who Franco was. And that was
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: not the only time, but that was the first time,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: in the most dramatic time, that people who were seemingly
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: important tried to attack that relationship. That relationship bothered a
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: lot of people, especially when within the Penn State establishment,
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: in the Penn State elites, if you will. But once
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Franco and I got past that first attack from Scott Paterno, frankly,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: it very much strengthened the relationship. And I think we
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: both knew. We didn't talk about it directly, we may
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: have mentioned it from time to time, but I think
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: we both knew. Again this is the analogy to Trump
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: and Musk. We both knew, Okay, they're out to separate us.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: So if there's any sort of confusion, let's talk to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: each other to make sure that we don't fall victim
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: to this. Again. I don't know that that was ever said,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: but that was the understanding, and that was in effect
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: what happened. And you know, another very prominent example the
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: day that I got arrested at the Matt Sandusky event
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: in a very horrific set of circumstances and totally ridiculous
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: and unjust, and Franco shows up at Oakmont Country Club
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: that night to take a picture with me and Bob Capredo,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: a member of the Penn State Board of Trustees. So
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: that would not have happened without the initial strengthening of
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: the relationship, because that was another situation where people we're
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: going to use that to try to separate me and Franco. Again,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not relating it directly or putting it on the
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: level of the Trump and Musk, but I think I've
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: lived through something somewhat similar and I'm seeing it happening.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: And I while there are going to be a lot
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: more complications and a lot more challenges than Franko and
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: I faced, I do feel pretty strongly that this is
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a situation they can survive. I've said before, tell me
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: how the Trump Musk relationship goes, and I'll tell you
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: how the Trump two point zero administration goes. And I
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: think that, barring a major earthquake, that relationship right now
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: is in a good place for them to do what
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: they did on handity, and so I wanted to mention that,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: and I hope I'm right about that. I'm not rooting
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: for Trump to fail, especially when it comes to trying
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: to save America. I just have problems with the way
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: he's currently doing it. Now, I want to transition to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: a completely different topic, and I have a lot to
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: say here. Hopefully I don't have too much to say,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: because I'm not one hundred percent sure how much people
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: are interested in this topic, but it certainly did get
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: an awful lot of publicity. And what I'm referring to
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: is the fiftieth anniversary of Saturday Night Live. Now, I
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: understand that for at least a couple of decades, especially
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: most conservatives, have not paid any attention to what's been
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: happening on Saturday Night Live. What I consider the fiftyth
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: anniversary of Saturday Night Live to be very emblematic of
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: the history, the evolution, and the current state of television.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost a mirror image. And that's why
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: I think looking at this show through the prism of
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: their celebration of their fiftieth anniversary is very very interesting.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: It's interesting if you care about the show itself, but
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: it's also I think fascinating to look at from the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: perspective of where are we and where have we been?
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: When it comes to television, which is this incredible invention
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: network television, probably the most impactful societal development in the
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: modern era. I mean, it's just it's incredible the impact
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: that television has had, you know, especially you know, I
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: always say that the television age began a November twenty second,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, the day John F. Kennedy was assassinated,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: And we may be seeing the end of the television era,
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: much like I think we're seeing the winding down of
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live. And so it's in that context that
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: I think this is worthy of some analysis and discussion
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: that you're not going to hear anywhere else. I've been
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: a big fan at times of Saturday Night Live. I've
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: also been very angered by Saturday Night Live. I did
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: an entire documentary film about the two thousand and eight
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: election that was in large part motivated by the treatment
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: that Saturday Night Live gave to Sarah Palin during that election,
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: maybe the last election that Saturday Night Live had a
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: major impact on. It probably was for reasons that I'm
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: going to get to momentarily. But you know, and I
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: don't watch the show nearly as much as I used to,
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: because I've gotten trained to believe that it's not going
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: to be funny. But for a long period of time,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: it was funny. Even even when it wasn't funny, it
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: was significant. It had relevance in what was going on
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: in society, especially when it game to presidential elections. That's
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: no longer the case. So, you know, it's not as
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: if I'm a huge fan of the show anymore. I
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: get why people don't like it, But again, I think
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: there are some larger cultural implications here that I want
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: to discuss. So the first thing I want to talk
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: about with regard to the S and L fiftieth anniversary
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: is that it's not really the fiftieth anniversary. They celebrated
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: this past weekend with a massive concert on Friday and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: then a live three and an almost three and a
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: half hour show on Sunday Night on NBC, But it's
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: not the fiftieth anniversary. The fiftieth anniversary isn't until October.
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: Now why is that important? That's important because it shows
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: the incredible power of football, and ironically enough, the very
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: first episode of Saturday Night Live was hosted by George
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: Carlin and his first I don't know if it was
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the first thing he talked about, but was the first
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: major element of his monologue was about football and baseball.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: Because it was in October of nineteen seventy five, both
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: seasons were still going on, and Carlin basically correctly predicted
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: that football was gonna usurp baseball as America's pastime. It
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: might have been the most impressient thing that was said
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: in that first episode, although Carlin also, weirdly, because I
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: watched it they replayed it this past weekend, he weirdly
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: kind of gave up. I don't know if you call
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: it a prediction or a foreboding foreshadowing, not a foreboding.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: It was a foreboding foreshadowing about that a foreshadowing of
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven because he talked about how easy it
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: would be to take over a commercial airline and high jacket.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: That was kind of weird in nineteen seventy five in
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: New York City. But anyway, the point of this is
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: that they decided to celebrate it in February, the weekend
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: after the Super Bowl, because doing in October in the
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: middle of football season would have been impossible for NBC,
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: so that's the power of football. That they actually changed
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: the anniversary of SNL and celebrated the fiftieth anniversary half
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: a year early, more than half a year early, because
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: of the fear of football, so that I thought was interesting.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: It's also important to point out that there was a
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: fortieth anniversary of SNL. Now forty years and fifty years,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: I think is an interesting difference. When you get someone
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: who's of my age, you know, I'm about to turn
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: fifty eight, and you start to think about things in
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: a very different way. You know, a fortieth anniversary or
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: a reunion is a celebration because you've had most of
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: your life, but you still have at least a little
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: bit going on into the future. You're still kicking, and
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: there's still hope for things to happen beyond the fortieth,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: and you still have the fiftieth to look forward to.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: But a fiftieth anniversary is a very different animal, you know,
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: especially a fiftieth reunion, especially if it's a college reunion.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: You know there ain't going to be a sixtieth. If
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: there is, you ain't gonna be kicking and no one's
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: going to be around for it. You know, you're either
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: going to be dead or in a nursing home in
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: all likelihood with some exceptions. But it's not going to
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: ever be the same. You know, most people are going
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: to be gone. So if a fortieth is a celebration,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: a fiftieth fields almost like a goodbye. Maybe not a funeral,
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: but it's a goodbye. So and what's interesting in the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: context of SNL is that the show has sucked so
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: much over the last ten years, been so insignificant. It's
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: been by far it's most insignificant culturally in the last
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: ten years, that there almost was nothing to talk about
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: over the last ten years. They could have just replayed
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: the fortieth anniversary for the fiftieth anniversary and the content
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been that much different, except this was a
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: bigger deal, because fifty is a bigger deal than forty.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: But you know, when you actually watched that show, almost
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: nothing from the last ten years came about. I mean,
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: nothing significant happened at SNL in the last ten years
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: except for somehow the Weekend Update host Colin yost inexplicably
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: getting Scarlett Johanson the actress, to marry him. That it's
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: about the most significant thing that's happened at SNL over
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: the last ten years. How that occurred. I have absolutely
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: no idea for a show that is diminishing in its relevance,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: and you know, he's not particularly funny, and you have
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: yet somehow he got Scarlett Johansson to marry him. But
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: you know, other than that and maybe a couple of
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: sketches from you know, Nick Bargadsey I think is his name,
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: George Washington sketches. You know, not much has really happened
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: in the last ten years, but they you know, they
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: still needed to do a fiftieth anniversary, so most of
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: that was focused on what happened, I would say in
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: the mid range of Saturday Night Live. Obviously they did
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: some on the beginnings back in the nineteen seventies, but
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of it was from the era of the
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: nineties and the early two thousands, when you know, a
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: lot of these comedians, these actors are still alive and
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: kicking and relevant and still very much part of the
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: S and L family. But when you think about it,
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: there's really been like three or four different errors of
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live. Obviously, there's the seventies era when the
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: show began, and I'm a big believer I've said this
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: many times that there is nothing like nineteen seventies celebrity
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: because that's when television was still new, still growing. There
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: was very little competition, there was no fragmentation. There were
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: basically four channels, So you put anything on network television
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: and you were going to get a large audience. And
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: anything that's new and different and exciting is going to
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: get attention. And there was a mythology that was created
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: surrounding the origins of Saturday Night Live. Again, watching that
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: first ever episode, it's really not that great. Other than
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: a couple of things that George Carlin said that in
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: retrospect turned out to be true. The show was really
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: pretty awful. But you know, I'll acknowledge that that era
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: that you know, the John Blue Sheet, Chevy Chase, Bill,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: Maury dan Akroyd, that whole thing. Okay, they were what
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: they did was interesting and had never been done before,
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: and for a lot of people that will always be
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: what Saturday Night Live is. But you know, the reality is,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: I believe that almost anything that happens in the nineteen
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: seventies historically is going to be overrated because of the
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: newness and because of the fact that they were handed
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: massive audiences that don't exist today because of an incredible
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: amount of fragmentation. Instead of four channels, we've got four
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: hundred channels and all sorts of streaming and all sorts
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: of competition from your phone and what have you. So
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: audiences everywhere have greatly, greatly diminished. But I do believe
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: that that first iteration of Saturday Night Live birth a
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: generation of comedic geniuses. Not all. I'm not trying to
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: pretend that everybody on Saturday Night Live was a comedic genius,
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: but there were several comedic geniuses that were earth in
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: the eighties and the nineties, or came about in the
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: eighties and the nineties, maybe the early two thousands, because
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: they were inspired by the nineteen seventies version of Saturday
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: Night Live. And this is something that I talk about
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: all the time in all sorts of endeavors, whether it's music,
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: whether it's movies, whether it's sports. It's not so much politics,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: I guess now, because politically we're going to be living
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: in a world where everything is related to the Trump
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: monarchy and the Trump bloodline. So there's a pipeline there,
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: but the pipeline is now broken. The pipeline for the
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: S ANDL was created because of that first cast in
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: the seventies. But there's no great memories of younger people
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: coming up to want to, you know, to be inspired
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: to be part of the SNL legacy, because nothing all
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: that interesting has happened in the last say, fifteen years,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: so the pipeline is clogged for a lot of reasons.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to a few others in a moment,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: But that era was pretty good. There were some bad times,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: but generally the eighties and nineties were pretty funny. Into
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: the two thousands, that was still relevant, but it's really been,
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: frankly since two thousand and eight was the last time
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: and certainly in a presidential election that Saturday Night Live
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: and he had any real impact on what transpired, and
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: it was very very much in favor of Barack Obama
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: as they destroyed Sarah Palin. That was not always the case,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: by the way, it's important to point out that like,
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: for instance, in the two thousand election, I thought SNL
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: was very, very fair and may have actually helped George W.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: Bush beat out Gore because they made Al Gore really
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: look like a complete dufist and a nerd and somebody
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to have a beer with. Unlike George W. Bush,
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: it was portrayed as kind of dumb but cool and
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: a guy you would like to hang out with. So
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: that was obviously an extremely close election, and Saturday Night
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: Live may have played a significant role in why Bush
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: won there. So it wasn't always that SNL was very,
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: very liberally biased. I'll get to that more in just
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: a second. But over time, in these different eras of
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: the show, I think it's natural that when you have
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: something that successful, complacency and rick of risk aversion are
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: going to set in, and people, when they become successful,
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: they become risk adverse. And as the comedy rules started
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: to change, become more politically correct, and the show got
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: more and more liberal and more and more female dominated
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: into the two thousands, that to me is when it
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 1: was no longer must see TV. And there's no question
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: that in the two thousands there was a cabal of women,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: and cabal has a negative connotation to it. I don't
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: have anything against any of these women, but there was
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: a group of women Tina Fey, Amy Poehlert Meyer, Rudolph
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Kate McKinnon and Kristin Wigg who completely took over the show.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: And when you have women taking over for men, inherently
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: things are going to get more liberal. Doesn't mean it's
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: going to become less funny, but that's part of why
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: the show became more and more liberal was because of
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: those women taking over for men. The show used to
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: be male dominated, and in the last fifteen twenty years
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: it became much much more female dominated. And I've referenced,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: you know, the two thousand and eight situation with Sarah Palin.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: They could not do that today. They could not do
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: that today because they don't have the ratings to have
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: that kind of an impact. In two thousand and eight,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: they still did. The show still had a lot of
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: social credibility, and it also had a large enough audience.
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: And it also this was really important in my documentary
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Mediam Malpractice. It had so much cachet with the mainstream
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: news media that clips This was the real power of
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: SNL in two thousand and eight, that clips of Sarah
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Palin of Tina Fey playing Sarah Palin on Saturday Night
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Live were used as news stories and not in an
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: isolated situation, routinely, routinely, and their ratings have never been
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: as high since then, the ratings that SNL got when
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: Tina Fey was portraying Sarah Palin in two thousand and eight, interestingly,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: and this shocked me because, as I've said, I've already
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: I did a massive documentary. This was a huge part
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: of my life. I didn't even realize until I stumbled
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: across it a few months ago that the original SNL
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 1: skit about Sarah Palin's selection in two thousand and eight
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: as John McCain's vice presidential nominee was actually extremely anti
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: media and it was, in my view, brilliantly written. Brilliantly written. Now,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: it was not executed particularly well. I had huge problems
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: with some of the acting in it, but from a
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: writer's perspective, it holds up extremely well. Uh I today,
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: I mean it would, it would really you could put
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: it on, you know, any sort of right wing media
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: outlet as a parody of the of the left wing
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: media from a positive perspective, and basically the essence of
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: it was a meeting of the New York Times staff
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: as they strategized how to destroy Sarah Palin. Now this
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: was before this is right after her selection and before
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: the Katie Kirk interview, and when the you know the
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: clause came out, the blood was in the water and
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Tina Fey became a Sarah Palin and SNL one hundred
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: and eighty degrees shifted on her. But I am quite
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: positive that that sketch had to be written by a
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: guy by the name of Jim Downey, who was a
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: writer on Saturday Live for over thirty years, and I
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: am confident was a closet conservative. And I know this
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: not just because of that sketch, which was written when
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: he was there, but because this is a weird story.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson gave me Jim Downe's phone number during this
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: entire controversy because he was friends with Jim Downe. He
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: assured me he was a conservative and said that I
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: should talk to him. I think I had a conversation
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: with him, but I'm not positive. I may never actually
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: spoken to him. But Jim Downey did a hell of
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: a job of hiding the fact that he was a conservative.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: But when you go back and you realize that Jim
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: Downey was a huge influence on the show. You can
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: see especially in the older shows like in the eighties,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: during the Reagan administration where his influences felt. And it's
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: clearly not from a liberal perspective, but it's just funny
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: to me to think about what might have been because
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: Jim Downey was trying to create the narrative at SNL
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: that the out of touch, elite, clueless New York media
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: was out to get this poor woman from Alaska. And
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: if that narrative it held, history might have been very,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: very different, because that's how much influence that show had
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. But that's no longer the
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: case because the show since then has gone into what
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: I would refer to as an impotence. Spiral media fragmentation
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: has killed the impact of SNL in two ways. It's
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: not just the fact that the audience has diminished, I
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: mean so, it's also the fact that it's almost impossible
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: to do topics in this era of American life that
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: can appeal to a broad spectrum of viewers because we
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: are so balkanized, we are so divided, we have almost
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: nothing in common. We are broken up into tiny, little
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: demographic groups, and so there are very few news stories
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: or things that happen in our culture that break through
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: to give content and fodder for Saturday Night Live other
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: than maybe a presidential election. So because the topics have
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: become so much more difficult to find at SNL. As
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 1: our society becomes more and more fragmented, they've lost subjects
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: that can work, which makes the show suck, which reduces
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: the audience. And then there's more fragmentation, which further reduces
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: the audience, which reduces the traction than anything that happens
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: on the show gets reduces its relevance. And this is
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: a downward spiral of impotence. And it's all because of
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: media fragmentation, something I frankly predicted in a book I
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 1: wrote called the Death of Free Speech back in two
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: thousand and five, only it's happened way faster and more
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: dramatically than I expected that it would. But SNL has
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: been hit harder, in my view, by media fragmentation than
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: any American media institution, because you can't make fun of
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: something that people don't know what the hell you're talking about,
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: especially when you have a very limited amount of time
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: to set things up. And as we've become more and
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: more divided politically, it's been much more difficult for SNL
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: to provide political commentary. It's now expected that it has
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: to be from the left. We saw that in the
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: last presidential election, where Maya Rudolph was picked as Kamala Harris,
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: not because she did a good Kamala Harris impression, just
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: because their skin color was basically the same as Kamala Harris.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: And there was no mocking of Kamala Harris. There was
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: some mocking of Joe Biden, but that was okay once
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: he was no longer the candidate. But by and large,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 1: it's all about mocking Trump and elevating Harris. It didn't
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: work because the show has no relevance any more, certainly
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: not nearly as much as it did back in two
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: thousand and eight, for reasons that I have already referenced.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: And as far as the liberal conservative divide and the
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: bias of the show, I think there's a lot of
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: evidence of that. I've already referenced the Jim Downey situation.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: He's no longer with the show. But when you look at,
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: for instance, the fiftieth anniversary and who was prominent and
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: who was not, it's all the liberals who are the
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: most prominent when it comes to who was featured on
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary show, and a lot of those that
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: ended up being conservatives weren't even there, and if they
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: were there, they were basically, you know, in the closet somewhere.
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 1: For instance, Victoria Jackson, who's a I don't know if
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: I consider still a friend. I haven't talked to her
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: many years, but she was a friend of mine for
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: a while. I would say more of an acquaintance, but
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 1: we knew each other, we communicated from time to time.
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: She's a bit nutty, there's no question about that. But
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: she's a Trump conservative. She was nowhere to be found.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: Only had one or two references in the fiftieth anniversary show.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: But Joe Piscopo, who was frankly a great element of
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: the cast in the late seventies early eighties. I believe
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: he's a radio talk show host, a big Trump guy.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: He was nowhere to be found. Dennis Miller, another conservative,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: He was nowhere to be found. Rob Schneider was there,
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: but not really even part of the show. As far
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: as I could tell, he's become very quote unquote conservative
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: or very trumpy. I actually believe that Dana Carvey has
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: become a conservative, but he might not have been there
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: because of a beef with Mike Myers over Wayne's world.
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 1: But there have been conservatives that have come out of
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: that show, but they're just not part of the cool
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 1: kids club. And a lot of this is really high school.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 1: That's what SNL is. It's perpetual high school for the
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: people that are involved in it. And you saw that
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: manifest itself and how the fiftieth anniversary was and who
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: got to be a big part of the show and
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: who did not. But the funniest part to me, and
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: the weirdest part and the most perplexing element of why
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: and how the show has become so liberal is that
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: when you look at the structure of the production of
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: the show, it's actually incredibly conservative. This is the part
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: that always drives me crazy as to how it is
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: that liberals don't take what happens in their real lives
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: and then use that as a prism to see the
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: larger reality of American life. But if you know anything
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: about the way SNL works, it is survival of the fittest.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: It is dog eat dog. It has one man as
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: the ultimate power structure. Lorne Michaels, who's been the executive
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: producer for forty five of the fifty years that SNL
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: has existed, and frankly, you know, it's really kind of
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: funny for for them to be criticizing Trump as a
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: king or a godlike figure when that's exactly what Lorne
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Michaels has been. For better or for worse. He has
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: created a structure where everyone fears him. He has ultimate authority.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: He's really like an old time college football coach. College
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: football coaches used to be like this. They were the
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: ones that had all the authority. Now college football coaches
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: have no power at all, which is why Nick Saban's
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: retiring and you know, all sorts of other chaos is
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: happening in college football because the coaches have no authority
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: over the players. Well, Warren Michael has extreme authority over
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: the lives and careers, at least he used to of
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: those who are on Saturday Night Live. And the structure
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: of creating competition, which is really at the core of conservatism,
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: especially when it comes to economic policy. That's what ES
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: and L is all about, creating an incredibly competitive environment
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: where you know your feelings don't matter. It's about whether
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: or not you can produce, and you may work all
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: week on something and it never sees air, and you're
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: gonna get disappointed, and you know, if you don't produce,
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: you're gone. And that is a very conservative environment, and
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: yet the show itself has become exceedingly liberal, and I
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 1: find that to be amazing and very telling about this
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: disconnect that a lot of liberals, especially elite liberals, have
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: when they're living in a world, whether they realize it
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: or not, that is actually very conservatively based. But to me,
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: what the part of this evolution that really ended it
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: for Saturday Night Live and why I now have disdain
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: for the program, is what happened during the COVID panic,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: because I think it's very very telling about human nature
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: that Saturday Night Live began as the ultimate anti establishment program.
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: That's what it was all about. Oh my god, these
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: young kids, they're sticking it to the establishment. Oh my god,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: they can't be controlled. That was how SNL began, That's where,
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: you know, or how it got popular. And then when
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: the COVID panic hit, this anti establishment show was marching
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: in lockstep with every single bit of the COVID insanity.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: The anti establishment show had become the establishment. Not just
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: the establishment, they had become effectively the pr firm for
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: the establishment in accepting and promoting all of this COVID insanity.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: In fact, SNL was the last place that I'm aware
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: of that was still mandating masks among their audience. And
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: how elitist does I mean the performers aren't wearing masks,
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: and this very small, the small confines of their studio
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: and thirty Rockefeller Center, but they were still mandating that
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: their audience wear masks, and their content I mean, my god.
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: I talked earlier about how there's so few topics that
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: everyone has in common that you can make fun of. COVID,
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: especially after the initial panic, provided an enormous opportunity for
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: SNL to have won a huge impact in trying to
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: subdue some of this insanity. But also they could have
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: gotten a brand new audience. They could have had a
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: hell of a lot of fun. There was enormous comedy
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: fodder that was provided by the reactions, mostly of liberals,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: to the COVID panic, and SNL did nothing. They were
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: completely avoided the topic, like the plague, And then they
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: finally did one rather benign sketch where a bunch of
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: liberals were having dinner and they were starting to wonder
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: whether or not they had overreacted the COVID and liberals
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: went banana. There was enough of that they weren't going
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: to do that anymore. And there was the one funny
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: thing said in that Live had done basically since the
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: COVID panic began, And so they lost me forever on
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: COVID because COVID was why the show was originally created,
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: to poke fun at the establishment and poke fun at
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: some of the insane things people were doing. But S
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: and L would not do that because they now viewed
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: their audience as very, very liberal and they were all
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: run by liberals, and whatever conservative elements of the program
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: had been lost Jim Downey I believe was gone by
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 1: that point. And so that's why they ended up caving
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: and waving the flag four, caving two and waving the
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: flag four. The establishment the faucis of the world when
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: it came to the COVID panic, and that, to me,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: that's very interesting from a human perspective. You know, success
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: is a very difficult thing to deal with. Money is
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: a very difficult thing to deal with. I talk all
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: the time about how no one who succeeds, no one
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: who has a cushy gig wants to do anything to
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: risk that. So doing the right thing doesn't matter. You're
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 1: not going to risk that because it's just not worth
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: it to you personally. You have too much to lose.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: And as an institution, Saturday Night Live, even though it
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: wasn't nearly as successful as it used to be, especially
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: when Louren Michaels is now you know, very much into
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: senior citizenship, he's not going to do anything to rock
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: the boat. So they have become what they claim to
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: hate at the beginning. That's the bottom line of that.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 1: They have become what they claimed to hate. And if
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: you broadness from not just Saturday Night Live, but to
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: TV in general and network news, I do think that
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: this fiftieth anniversary of SNL is symbolic that the end
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 1: is near for all of these institutions. It's not just SNL,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: but network television and network news. The end is near.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: This fiftieth anniversary of SNL really did feel like a
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: bit of a goodbye. Now, not everyone who participated in
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: this understood it. I thought Adam Sandler did I give
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of credit to Adam Sandler. I mean Adam Sandler,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: who is probably worth more money than any cast member
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: in the history of Saturnnight Live. Because a lot of
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: his movies have done ridiculous box office, because he figured
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: out that there's a segment of the population, especially young men,
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: who like really stupid humor, and he has monetized that
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: in an extraordinary way. But he's a smart guy. I
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: think he's an earnest guy. I don't know him at all.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, for all I know, he could be a jackass,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: but I have a positive view of him. And he
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: put on I thought a tremendous p performance when he
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: created a song that kind of encapsulated the fifty years
• 1:40:05
  Speaker 1: of SNL, and it felt to me like this is
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: a guy who knew this was the last time this
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: was going to happen, especially when he was talking about
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: his friend Chris Farley and Norm MacDonald and Phil Hartman,
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: all of whom died under horrible circumstances far too early.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: And the emotion that he expressed during that song, I thought,
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: to me, it felt like, Okay, he knows there's a
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: lot of these other people that are still pretending that
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: this isn't the end. It felt to me like Adam
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: Sandler knew this is the end that there ain't going
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: to be a sixtieth, and if there is a sixtieth,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be the same. I mean, who
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: knows if NBC is going to exist ten years from now,
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: or you know, in SNL and Lord Michaels, they're all
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: going to be gone. Most of the people that were
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: in this show are going to be gone or in
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: a nursing home by the sixtieth anniversary. And so it
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: all does feel like it's coming to an end, and
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 1: it's symbolic of television itself. Now, the program, the fiftieth
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: anniversary show was okay. I found it interesting and important
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: to point out that there were three OJ Simpson jokes. Yeah,
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: think about this from a cultural perspective. Think about how
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: that shows how dead comedy is and how difficult, as
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: I've said earlier, it is to do comedy when people
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: have so little in common, When you're doing a show that's,
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to target a broad range of demographics,
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: and you're trying to do comedy and there's so little
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: that we have in common that thirty one years after
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: the OJ Simpson murders, three jokes, by the way, three
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: of the better jokes during this three and a half
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: hour extravaganza were about OJ Simpson. That's amazing. It's kind
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: of sad, but it's amazing from a comedic perspective. To me.
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: There was a remarkable moment which I posted about and
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: got quite a few retweets and views, at least for me,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: occurred when they did this Black Jeopardy sketch where Eddie
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: Murphy was absolutely hilarious impersonating Tracy Morgan. I mean he
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: was cooking. He was cooking with oil Eddie Murphy. And
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: by the way, it's very difficult to get Eddie Murphy
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: to do this kind of stuff, but he is still
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: a genius even in his old age, and he was
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: one of the best cast members in the history of
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: the show. And so Eddie Murphy is cooking on this
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: sketch and they nonsensically, without any explanation, replaced him with
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: Tom Hanks on this fake black Jeopardy show. Tom Hanks
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: playing a racist red cap wearing Trump supporter that wasn't funny,
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: then insulted in a huge portion enough of people watching.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 1: How huge, I don't know, because Trump supporters is probably
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: not why said on that Live to begin with, But
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: there might have been a few tuning in because of
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: the curiosity of the fiftieth anniversary, and from a comedic
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: perspective and politically, this was absolutely a tird I can
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: never remember. I've watched the show almost my entire life.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: I can never remember so much momentum being instantaneously stopped
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: and then reversed in a negative direction. Who the hell
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: had the idea of, let's stop Eddie Murphy and make
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: sure we have Tom Hanks playing a racist Trump supporter.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: It was just crazy, And interestingly, Hanks became part of
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: another important element of the show, very telling element of
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: the show later on, when he did a bit that
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: he referred to as the immemorium section, pretending like they
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: were going to do a tribute to those who have
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: been on the show and who have passed away, but
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: instead it was a bit on jokes that they regret,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: essentially all the racists and the ethnic and the sexist
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: jokes that they have done in the past that you
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: know they regret, and they even blamed the audience for
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: laughing at them. Now. I couldn't tell if this was
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: done at least partially tongue in cheek, whether they were
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: being serious I couldn't tell, but I found it to
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: be fascinating that essentially Saturday Night Live spent several minutes
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: of their fifteen anniversary explaining in real terms why the
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: show is no longer funny. Because the reality is, if
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: you are concerned about offending people, whether it's through racist jokes,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: sexist jokes, you know whatever, in that realm, if you're
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: concerned about that has an incredible chilling effect. It's impossible
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 1: to do comedy, especially live comedy, to a broad audience
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: on a network television show which has extreme content restrictions
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: to begin with, if you're concerned about offending people, no
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: matter what you do. And so that was a I
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: thought very telling. Wait so wait a minute. Are what
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell is are they now saying that they
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have done these jokes? Like, for instance, one of
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: the subjects was body shaming. Well, Chris Farley didn't made
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: an entire career out of being fat. Some of the
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: best moments in the history of the show were Chris
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: Farley using his obesity for comedic purposes? Was that illegitimate?
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: Are they saying that that should never happen? Again? I didn't.
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: I didn't fully understand it, but it hit on an
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: important subject about why it is that comedy is so
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: incredibly difficult in this modern age, especially on network television,
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: and it's I think, I think important to point out that,
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: you know what, one of the more remarkable things that's
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: happened in the show over the last few years is
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: that Shane Gillis got fired after being hired for only
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: a couple of days, got fired from Saturday Night Live
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: because somebody found an old podcast where he made a
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: crack about Asians and he got fired. He was brought
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: in because they thought they needed, you know, a straight
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: white male with a more non liberal bent, and then
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: he gets shit canned over something that really was not
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: that big of a deal, you know, And some of
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: the clips that SNL played during that Tom Hanks segment
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: were certainly consistent with the idea that, you know, if
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: they're saying that they shouldn't have done them in the past,
• 1:46:46
  Speaker 1: they were no worse than what Shane Gillis allegedly, you know,
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: the crime, the thought crime he committed on that podcast.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: But he got fired, and in the past, that would
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: have probably been the end of his career, right, he
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: gets hired to his dream job, this big break SNL
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: cast member, he gets fired, and now he's bigger than
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: anybody that the cast has currently Just a few years later,
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: in fact, they even asked him to come back and
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 1: host the show. Now. I'm not a huge Shane Gillis fan.
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: He's sold out and done a bud Light commercial. But
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: the reality is he is good. He's funny. I like
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: him in general. But that to me shows how much
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: things have changed where it's kind of symbolic of the
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: independent news media and the right wing news media and
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 1: the Trump era where you know, the kind of like
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson or Megan Kelly, where now they're in some
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: ways bigger than they ever were when they were on
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: the mainstream because the world has changed so much, and
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: the Shane Gillis story is emblematic of that. But as
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: far as the death of comedy in general, I do
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: think this is a good opportunity to talk about something
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: I've never discussed previously. This is just a theory that
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: I have. I have no evidence to back this up,
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: but I thought it was worthy of putting out there
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: because I did a lot of As you can tell,
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: I've did a lot of thinking about this fiftieth anniversary
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: of SNL, And it's not just political correctness and wokeism
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: that has made comedy so difficult. I think there's a
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: pipeline problem. I referenced this a little earlier, but I
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: think there's a pipeline problem for reasons that no one
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: has ever mentioned, and I doubt the vast, vast majority
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: of people have ever thought about before. And this is
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: my theory on this. You know how RFK Junior and
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: Trump are putting forward this idea that vaccines may cause autism. Now,
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: I've never bought this idea. Stick stick with me here.
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: This is going to go places, trust me. So I've
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 1: never bought this idea that vaccines cause autism because I
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: think there is been an overdiagnosis of autism. I think
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: in years past it was probably underdiagnosed, and now autism
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: is grossly overdiagnosed, and that has created a situation where
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: people need an explanation. Why is this the case? Why
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: are we having this explosion of autism case? As well,
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: people like RFK Junior and Trump look at that and go, well,
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: my god, maybe there's a correlation with vaccines. And I
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: think it's more of a social contagion and an overcorrection,
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: a pendulum swing, if you will. And I think that
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: there is an analogy to be made or a comparison
• 1:49:42
  Speaker 1: to be made to what's happened to comedians, because I
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: think the overdiagnosis of autism has potentially potentially created a
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: situation where people who might have become great comedian get
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: medicated into being boring. Now I realized that that's that's
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: a whopper. That's my way. Wait to say, what are
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: you talking about. I'm saying that people that in a
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: previous generation would have just been considered to be weird
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: or off and may have ended up being in this
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: pipeline of potentially great comedians in today's world, they get
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: we're medicating everybody, and there's impacts to those medications, and
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of times it kills off the whatever positive parts,
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: the whatever creative parts may have existed for someone being
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: weird or off or being on the spectrum. And by
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: the way, autism may not be the right word for this,
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: but it's the way I think most people would understand it.
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: But think about what I'm saying in this context, there
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: is a very very fine line between genius and insaneanity,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: especially when it comes to comedy, especially when it comes
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: to the history of comedy in this country, and especially
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: as it's related to Saturday Night Live. I mean, just
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: think about some of the great names of comedy before
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: this current era, which I will put at the last
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: twenty to twenty five years, where I think comedy has
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: gone in the shitter, and especially on Saturday Night Live,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: where the pipeline has gone dry. This would also be
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: correlated to this era where you have people who are
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: being diagnosed. Young people who are being diagnosed and medicated.
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: Far more significant because you gonna remember people that are
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: on Saturday Night Live are generally in their very early twenties. Well,
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: think about Andy Kaufman, one of the original cast members
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: of SNL. That guy was nuts. I don't know which
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: part of the line of genius and insanity he was on,
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: but clearly he was on the spectrum somewhere. Today he
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: would have been medicated into oblivion. Now, some of the
• 1:52:03
  Speaker 1: people I'm gonna mention aren't Saturday Night Livers, but Robin
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: Williams crazy but also hilarious. I don't know that he
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: would exist today given the circumstances I've discussed, Bill Murray,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: John Belushi, Pee Wee Herman, Jim Carrey, Sam Kinnison, Don Rickles,
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 1: even I think kind of fits this mold. Lenny Bruce,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: Richard Pryor, Stephen Wright, Martin Short, Norm MacDonald, Larry David,
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: Dave Chappelle, Chris Farley. Now with some of these people,
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 1: there's another element that's not necessarily related to autism. It's drugs.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: There might be a combination here of being a little
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: bit off and doing drugs and alcohol, And that's another
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: element of this whole thing. Drugs and alcohol, probably for
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: the good, are frowned upon much more so than they
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: were during previous eras of for instance, Saturday Night Live,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: Chris Farley ended up succumbing to try an alcohol John mulaney,
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 1: who got a ton of time on the fifteen anniversary
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 1: even though he was really not a significant part of
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 1: S and L. But he's become a star since. I
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: don't think it's nearly as funny now that he's gone sober.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: I'm not suggesting that it's bad he's going sober. He's
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: gone sober, but back when he was on drugs, I
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: thought he was a lot funnier than he is today.
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: There's an element of that. So when you combine the
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: fact that we've medicated the hell out of our kids,
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: and now in the main street we frowned upon drugs
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: and alcohol being a major part of a comedian's consumption.
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's a coincidence that we all of
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: a sudden have a dearth of great comedians, especially those
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: the likes of which I just named. Now, you may
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: think I'm crazy for that theory, but I think that that,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: combined with the political correctness, with the WOCSM, with the
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: media fragmentation, is an explanation for why we end up
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: with the crap that we get Inbody in general and
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: Saturday Night Live in particular. So that's probably way more
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: than you ever needed to hear about the fiftieth anniversary
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: of SNL. But I found it to be a significant
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: cultural moment. And I'm big into our history. I'm big
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: into our evolution. I'm big into trying to see where
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: we're going with this, and and I did find it well.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: There was some there were some entertaining moments. I do
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: want to say there was there were some parts of
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: the fiftieth anniversary show that I liked. Overall, it felt
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit you know, high school reunion is where
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: the cool kids dominated everything. There was too much focus
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: on old sketches that weren't really all that funny, But
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: there were some bright moments, and I hope you appreciated
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: the thought that I put into the significance of the
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: whole thing related to Saturday Night Live fiftieth anniversary. Thanks
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: for listening to today's free drop of the abbreviated show.
• 1:54:57
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• 1:55:01
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• 1:55:05
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• 1:55:10
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• 1:55:16
  Speaker 1: name is j H h N z I E G L
• 1:55:18
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• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: Journalism with John Ziggler. Good luck to you on that.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: But that's how you can subscribe.