Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / 80. Gilad Jacobs, CEO NormaTec

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80. Gilad Jacobs, CEO NormaTec · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey Hurdlers Emily about a year with episode eighty of
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hurdle Love Nice Round Numbers like that, a podcast that
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: drats to everyone from entrepreneurs to top CEOs and athletes
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: about how they've gotten through tough times hurdles of sorts
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: by leaning in to wellness. On today's episode, I'm going
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to be chatting with ge Laud Jacobs. He is the
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: CEO of Normatech and we'll get into what that is.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: And just a little bit before we do, shout out
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: to my sponsor, Athletic Greens. I'm sitting here working on
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  Speaker 1: to today's sponsor, Whoop. I'm looking at my new Whoopstrap
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  Speaker 1: you are doing things like burpies or lifting barbell, are
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  Speaker 1: just heading out for a run. They are offering Hurdle
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  Speaker 1: listeners an awesome deal as well. It is fifteen percent
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  Speaker 1: off a Whoop membership as well as a free Whoop
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  Speaker 1: Strap by using the code Hurdle at checkout. Again, head
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  Speaker 1: the code Hurdle at checkout to get a free whoop
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  Speaker 1: strap and fifteen percent off any membership to optimize the
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: way you train. All right, So, Gilad, as I mentioned,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: he is the CEO of Boston based Norma Tech Industries.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: They're a global leader in medical and sports recovery technology.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: You have more than likely seen their compression boots, which
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: are my absolute favorite on the legs of everyone from
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: NBA and NFL athletes to Ironman triathletes to even Lady Gaga.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: We have the opportunity to sit down when I was
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: up in Boston recently, and his story is really interesting.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: You know today's episode, he talks to me about not
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: really feeling like he fit in entirely growing up. We
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: chat about the really special relationship he had with his
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: late mother, who actually as an MD, a PhD, a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: bio engineer. She focused on helping her patients with poor
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: circulation and that is where the beginnings of Norma Tech
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: came from. Gee Love learned everything he could from his mother.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: He followed in her footsteps and tells me today about
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the hurdle moment of her passing and what that meant
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: for him coming into a new role in the company,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: leading them forward and leaning into the business to get
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: through that tough time. You know the drill at Emily
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a Body at Hurdle Podcast. If you have a hurdle
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: moment of your own to share, just want to say hi,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: reach out to me. It's Emily at Hurdle US, hosting
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: a couple of fun events in the New York City
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: area this week and would love to see you. It
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: is my favorite time to be here. I'm so amped
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to share on all the runners at next Sunday's new Marathon,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: But first Wednesday night, Charlie Dark Live Hurdle recording at
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Lululemon's Repair Lab down on Prince Street, as well as
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: on Friday, a panel put together by my friends and
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: you can with some other rock star female podcasters over
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: at the Marriott Marquee in Times Square. For all the
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: details on both of those events, click on over to
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: the link with the description to this episode. Come out,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: say hi, let's hang and have a good time with that.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Let's get to hurdling today. I'm sitting down with Gie
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: lad Jacobs. His nickname is G. Have you always gone
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: by G?
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: After people started messing up the name pretty good, I
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: had to come up with something, so she.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: Was an what's the origin of your name.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It's a Hebrew name. It's a mountain range in modern
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: day Jordan. My parents like the name, so that's that's
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: what I got.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Gilot is the CEO of Norma Tech. So first and foremost,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: let's fill the hurdlers in on what Norma Tech is.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Norma Tech is a compression system that you hook up
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: to your legs, arms, and we also have hip attachments
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: that mobilizes air around your limbs to increase circulation and
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: enhance blood flow around the body, decrease soreness, and make
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: you feel terrific.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Wow, you've never said that before.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: It's very apparent.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: It's very apparent. Okay, So compression and this is something
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: that traditionally we think of in a lot of different ways.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, people think of compression tights, they think of
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: compression socks. But this is an extra device that you
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: put on your body that helps compress in a way
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: that those things just don't do.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, compression has been around for a really
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: long time. Everyone rumbors a spandages growing up. And even
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: if you know you get hit with a soft ball
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: in the side of the leg, you're going to take
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: your arm and hand and kind of push on it
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: a little bit to help ease some of the soreness
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: and the pain that you're having in the acute minute.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: But our big push was how can we be very dynamic?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: We're very dynamic beings. In fact, the only time that
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: we're stagnant is when we're dead. So how can we
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: mimic what physiology is used to in terms of moving
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: stuff around the body in something that is convenient and effective?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: All right, So I don't think that someone necessarily just
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: falls into being in a position like yours. So talk
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: to me about growing up. Where are you from?
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: I was born right outside Philadelphia, Okay, and most of
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: my years were there, and then moved to actually the
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Middle East in Israel for high school. And it was
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: right around that time that my late mom started the
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: concept of what normatech would eventually come to. She started
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: out life as a medical physician and PhD bio engineer
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: and was really focused on helping patients, primarily women after
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: breast cancer surgery, with increasing fluid movement in the arm
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: after surgery, they would have something called lymphidema, and the
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: idea of helping patients was one that really drove her
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to where she ended up and following her passions in
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: life and kind of growing up with that was really intriguing.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Being able to see a business start from the ground
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: up in our basement and go from there was really
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: cool and also very fun that every business card and
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: every meeting that I'm in and I see the word
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Norma Tech. We named it after my late grandmother, Norma.
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: My little jokes, I'm just glad her name isn't Mildred
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: or Fife because fIF tech doesn't have the same kind
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: of ring to it. But being able to kind of
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: keep it in the family while we bring our story
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: in our technology to others has always been a cool thing.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: What was it like being a teenager in Israel? Hot?
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: It's very hot. You got to have your air conditioning cranking.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: It was awesome learning another language. I think the biggest
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: thing is moved there when I was like thirteen, and
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: being able to roll around and not have as much
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: parental supervision as you have here. There's a freedom that's
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: over there, learning a new culture, interacting with people from
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: all around the world. So definitely something that I consider
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: something that formed me for sure.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Growing up with a mother who is a physician or
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: things when it comes to health, like unlock in your household.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Health, but not the way that I think we use
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: the term health today.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Let me know what that means.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't so much about the broccoli that's on
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: your plate or not on your plate for dinner. It
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: was more about like wearing your helmet before anybody else
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: knew you should be wearing a helmet. Skiing biking was
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: was kind of a thing back then, but roller skating
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: or ice skating. Imagine being like the ninth grader who
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: rolls into an ice skating rink and you have to
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: wear a bicycle helmet. So that was kind of challenging.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: But as a rehab physician she saw the flip side
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: of that and understood what, you know, what can happen
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: if if you don't take care of yourself.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting that she was so compelled to get
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and did this specific sector of the practice. Like it's
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: like you hear about people doing certain specialties obviously, but
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: not something like this.
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, starting out life as a rehab doctor, her
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: real passion was continuing to help patients, and she started
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: seeing a trickle of patients coming to her as chief
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: of rehab at this huge hospital right outside Philadelphia, New Jersey,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: where she would go to them and say, Okay, you
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: have this swalling in your arm. What happened while you
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: had breast cancer surgery? Okay, well did you talk to
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: your primary care physician? Well? Yeah, well what did he
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: or she say? He said, well, go to talk to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: your surgeon. I didn't do the surgery. When they would
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: go to the surgeon, the surgeon would say, I just
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: saved your life. Lady, what do you worried about? Like?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: You know, who cares if you have a swollen arm?
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Wrap it and bandage it, maybe tie it up, you
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: know when you sleep at night to try to alleviate
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: some of that swalling through gravity. Who cares if it's swollen?
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Go live your life. And there was really no quality
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: of life for a lot of these patients. So they
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: would come to her, and she recognized that the next
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: door that she could point them to is really the
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: parking lots. So it kind of stopped at rehab and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: it just became that focus and that passion of her life.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like from a young age you
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: probably didn't fully comprehend what her like, what she was
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: even doing so, When did you start to realize what
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: it was that she was focused on? And do you
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: remember being young and being like, mom, what are you
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: doing here? Like really like, this is what we're doing.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, when you're younger, you don't always know
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: what your parents do, and even they come to school
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and introduce it to the third grade class, you still
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: have no real concept of it. But I think, you know,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: as I started to kind of grow up and be
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: a little bit more cognizant of what was going down.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I remember she never really wanted to start a company.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: She just wanted to help her patients. And she literally
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: went around to all the different compression companies. Compression in
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: this form has been around actually since the sixties and seventies.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: How you harness compression, well, that separates the technologies that
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: are out there, plus then you infuse the different technologies
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: that go into the actual compression systems. But she literally
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: would go around to these companies and say, let me
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: help you guys make a better mouse trap. And they
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: would look at her and say, you're just a doctor.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: What do you you know? They would say, you're just
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: a woman doctor, what do you know about business? And
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: she literally came home one day and I remember, and
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: she said, they're messing with the wrong broad and she
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: quit her job. And I would come home after school
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: and literally machines would be in parts strewn across the
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: pool table in the basement, and she'd be tinkering and
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: figuring out, you know, what makes this widget, let you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: work like this, and what makes this widget work like that?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And it really came down to it doesn't matter what
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: the device looks like. That's just kind of smart engineering
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: and design. It's how you're actually using that air to
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: improve circulation. So what she did is she kind of
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: was able to fuse both the medical and the PhD
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: discipline and bring it together where she was able to
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: focus air compression to harness what the body normally uses
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: to move fluids and use it very effectively to give
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: us the best chance possible to move the blood flow
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: in the right direction.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, So when are you in Israel until.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Graduated early two thousands, about two thousand and one.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you move back to the.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: States and go University of Pittsburgh for college.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, what is life like when you're in college?
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: A great question to ask anybody. I feel like it
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: always almost gets the same like immediate laughter response.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Definitely not the cool kid. Definitely just trying to figure
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: out where I fit in and definitely growth for me.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: Why do you think that? Like, why do you think
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: you weren't the cool kid?
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: What do I know that I wasn't the cool kid?
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we could talk about that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Why why do I know that I wasn't the cool kid?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I think it was just finding out who I really
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: was at that stage, and it's kind of hard, you know.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: One way that I like to define cool is feeling
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: comfortable in any situation. And I think back then, as
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people felt high school and college,
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: it was finding my right crowd. I think lots of
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: people were in drinking and drugs, and I would always,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you know, be the guy that after school would go
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: for that you know, five mile run and try to
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: figure out, you know, what hell can I attack, you know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: on a climb versus you know, just sitting and drinking
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: a handle of vodka behind the the gas station where
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: the teachers weren't looking. But yeah, getting into college, he
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: was finding that right niche and finding out how I
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: could infuse, you know, infuse a little bit of the
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: academic side, which didn't come naturally to me, but understood
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: that and kind of have to put on my big
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: boy pants and figure out what's next for me in life.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Did you feel like living in Israel and coming back
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: made you just a little bit different than everybody else.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting way to put it, for sure.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, knowing other language, having those experiences that most
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: kids don't have going through high school. At the same time,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: I felt like maybe there were some things like I
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: never really had a prom because those don't really exist
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: over there the way that they do here. Such a
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: life change, such a life changing moment. But again, if
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you don't have it, you don't have it. The grass
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: is always greener. So I think it really allowed me
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: to kind ofderstand that there's different walks of life, and
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: it was definitely influential in kind of creating who I
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: am today.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: When you were in college, what was your major communications?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Did you know in college what you wanted to do
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: when you were going to get out? Nope? Okay, so
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: let's talk about senior year then, because this is how
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: it always happens, right. Did you have any internships in college?
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Yes, but not in the classical sense. So even going
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: back to freshman year, my mom, she didn't realize it
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: at the time, but as she was starting the business,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: she was starting to groom me to take over maybe
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: one day and I didn't realize it either, but she
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: would use me as a sounding board. So literally six
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: nights a week, we took Friday nights off, I would
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: be on the phone with her between anywhere from an
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: hour to two hours, and she would tell me about
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: this meeting that she had with this vendor, and this
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: patient interaction that she had, and the issues of manufacturing
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: and a sales opportunity that came up, and would kind
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: of help craft my understanding and my business acumen and
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: really help shape what I am today through that process.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: So kind of working not only nightly with her, but
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: then during breaks and in between college years and being
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: able to focus on the business and trying out every
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: single job. It's kind of, I guess, cool in a
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: way when you can try everything out and see what works.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And going from secretary, you know, one summer in college,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: to the guy in the line literally assembling our hoses
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: for another two years and then being our shipping clerk
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: and billing insurance for the patient's side with Medicare and
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Blue Cross, Blue Shield and whatnot. So being able to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: put all that stuff together was an experience for sure.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: But I think that makes you at this point anyway,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and we're skipping a lot by being a CEO now.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I mean I sat down with a restaurant tour for
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: him from New York City. His name's Michael Trenow, and
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: he has literally done every single job in the restaurant business,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: from bussing tables to cleaning dishes to you know, being
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a cook to everything. And so for him now when
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: he works with his staff, it's such a different type
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of relationship because he can truly sympathize and understand everything
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that's going on, especially under the roof of his businesses.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So these days, I'm sure at least the people that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: are sitting behind us in his office here in Boston
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: can understand and respect what you've.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Been through, for sure, I hope. So it does give
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: me an extra layer of understanding that I think some
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: people who haven't experienced its like anything else in life,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and that's powerful where I can understand, you know, the
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: guys down in our shipping department. People will see shipping
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: as kind of a necessary evil and just something that's
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: down there, And I'll go down there a couple times
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: a week and I'll pack boxes with them because I
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: want to know what issues are are they running into,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: how can we make it more smooth, How does it affect,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: you know, their day to day. So it's that's been fun.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: So you're in college, you're maybe not so knowingly but
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: also kind of knowingly working with your mom a lot,
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: and the closer a good graduation, are you kind of
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: understanding that this is just where you're going to segue
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: full time?
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom would have this saying, she said, You'll
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: always have a job as long as I'm running the company.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: But if it's a career you want, nepotism stops with
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: the opportunity, and if you want to kind of make
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: this your mission in life, then you're gonna have to
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: work harder than anybody else, if nothing else, just to
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: prove that you're not in this position because you're my kid.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: And didn't really understand it at the time, but definitely
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: got a good understanding of that once I started coming out.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: And when I came out the first two three years,
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: it really was just trying to keep the business going
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: on the medical side and doing every job possible as
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: an entrepreneur, you really have to. One day you're taking
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: out the trash, another day you're talking to the head
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of a hospital and everything in between, depending on what
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: the moment calls for. But being able to really sit
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: down and understand how that all kind of interacted was
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: really important.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: So you're talking about this still in the medical sense.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: What year about does this kind of shift over from
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: being a medical situation to what it has eventually? I'm
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: sure much more now so then back then, but morphed
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: into being a product that can be for the regular consumer,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: ranging from them to elite athletes.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So we were always helping patients and I was
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: always a sports guy growing up and love watching the
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Flyers and the Sixers. People ask me today, because we
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: work with all the sports team who your favorite team is,
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: and I go, whoever's buying the most that week? Right,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: But really was into sports, but didn't understand that maybe
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: there was an application here and we had a personal connection.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: We knew someone that worked down in student health at
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the University of Florida and it's going back to like
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: seven eight, and she said, yeah, maybe I can get
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: you a meeting with someone on the training staff for
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: basketball and football, and anyone who's in the college sports
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: will know that Florida is always a powerhouse. Actually, about
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: ten twelve years ago, they were winning back to back
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: championships in basketball and football national championships and they were
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: just they were crushing it, and everybody wants to get
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: in front of these guys and gals. And we went
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: down there and I said, there's got to be an
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: application in sports. And my mom literally looked at me
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: and she goes, this is not my jam, kid. Here's
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: two machines and five grand sinker swim. And I guess,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: not knowing what you know now, it allowed you to
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: kind of go out there and make moves that otherwise
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: maybe you wouldn't have.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Right, That's so interesting because you had to go in
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: there with such an overwhelming amount of knowledge to convince
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: these teams that weren't exposed to this non conventional type
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: of recovery that this was something that they were missing.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: Right, and especially as a non clinician going in and
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: telling clinicians that maybe there's something they should be thinking about.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: So I actually, I don't think that I did much
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: convincing those first few meetings, I think it was really
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: just teaching them how the problem work and then leaving
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: it in their hands, and they literally in the first year,
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: the standard response that I would get when the meeting
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: was breaking was don't call us, we'll call you. And
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I was like, all right, well, I gave it my
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: best shot and we'll see what happens. And Florida University
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: of Florida called me up a couple weeks later, like, gee,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: this thing is unbelievable. You need to bring us forward.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: And it was at that moment where we started hearing
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: that over and over again. And at first it was
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: only to help athletes after an injury or surgery, where
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: you typically use these types of systems to relieve an
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: ankle sprain and reduce the swelling that's in there and
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: go ahead and help an athlete after an acl repair.
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: But being able to move that forward get that feedback
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: from them really allowed us to say, maybe there is
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: something here. Let's dig a little deeper.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: What was really going on in your head when you'd
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: walk away from these meetings without really anything to come
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: back to mom and tell her it's like, well, I
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: left a couple devices there.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know again, literally two machines and excuse me,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: five five thousand bucks. So the first couple of sales
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: allowed me to go to my next conference, and my
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: next show, and my next engagement. But I would leave thinking, Okay, well,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much more runway I have here.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't do this all day. I can't
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: just give freebies away. At some point, this is either
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: going to click or I'm gonna have to start looking
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: for another job. And it just started to slowly. This
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: was not an overnight thing, but it started to slowly
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: come together and you could start seeing the pie kind
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: of forming.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Taking a break from today's episode to give my sponsor
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Whoop some love. Now. One of the things that I
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: find really interesting about the Whoop strap is it tracks strain.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And of course this is applicable to your workouts, but
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it's also applicable to the rest of your day. So
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: if you are the kind of person that has a
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: really strenuous job, if you're going in and out of meetings,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: that counts right that you're putting strain on your body.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: So someone that is standing up running around from point
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: A to point B, talking to people, doing things they
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: can find similar strain amounts as someone that might just
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: tackle one hour long workout that's intense and then chill
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: for the rest of their day. So, for me, what
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: I find really interesting and intriguing about the whoopstrap. Yes,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: you see it on serious athletes, but it's also helpful
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: for the everyday person. It's helpful for all of us
• 22:29
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• 22:31
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• 22:45
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• 22:56
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• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that's the code Hurdle at checkout to optimize the way
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you train. Let's get back to it. It goes without
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: saying that a lot of young men and men don't
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: have the kind of relationship that you had the opportunity
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: to have with your mom. I mean, if I think
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: about my brother talking to my mother for two hours
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: on the phone. Blessed them both. I don't know, I
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: don't know what would go on. So the fact that
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you guys were, you know, building this business together and
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: she had so much faith in you was really really special.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: Very special. At the same time, it really changed up
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: our relationship because you're right thinking that your brother connecting
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: with your mom like that never happened. I think what
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: ended up happening is we became more business partners and
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: less connected in the mother son way. I mean, we
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: obviously were always connected that way, but every time we
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: would get together, even if it was just you know,
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: for dinner with dad and the sister or you know, holidays,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: it would always lead back to business very quickly. And
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I think it pissed off a lot of people that
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: were around us because like, oh, there they go again.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: You know, they're just talking about business. But for us,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: it was really everything and I wouldn't change it for,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: you know, anything in this world. But it was a
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: really unbelievable experience in being able to see my mom
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: in that way and for her to be able to
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: see me was definitely very.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Special, and you obviously really wanted to show up for her.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: So on that note, I mean you mentioned before we
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: started recording that about eight years ago now she passed
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: away from cancer. So when did you guys find out
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: that she had cancer?
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so literally eight years ago, basically to the week today,
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: we found out she was diagnosed. She was having some
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: some discomfort in her leg and it was a unfortunately,
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: is a quick, quick growing tumor that spread metastasized to
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: the lung, and that's what she ended up passing away from.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: But three months from diagnosis to death. And at the time,
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: we were still in that phase of the company where
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: we were just trying to stay alive every day and
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: the idea that the founder of our company and the
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: person who was spearheading our initiatives was being taken out
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: of action. Back then, we didn't know what this meant.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Obviously every cancer story has a different trajectory, but we
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: didn't know if this was going to be a few
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: months the way that it ended up, unfortunately being or
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: if this was going to be a multi year or
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: maybe something that she could overcome and being able to
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: quickly go from I guess this was the engineer in
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: her she understood as a medical physician what she was
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: up against, and the engineer was like, Okay, let's work
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: the problem. There's got to be some kind of solution here.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It may not be me implementing the solution forever, but
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: what can we do? And I think that grooming got
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: me to the point where there was at least enough
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: confidence that I could keep the business going for at
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: least a couple of months after she passed, So three
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: months from diagnosis to death we transitioned. It was just
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: enough time. I don't know how people who have a
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: longer trajectory day in and day out deal with it
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: for months and years on end. It's got to be
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: unbelievably taxing to the family. We talk about it a
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: lot still as a family internally. We talk about if
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: you had to go, if mom had to go, you know,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: cancer the way that she went three months versus multi
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: year kind of situation you're dealing with, or maybe heart
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: attack or get hit by a car or something like that.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: And for me, I think we were the luckiest because
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: it was enough time to say or your byes and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: put things in place for the future. But you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: nothing that we had to deal with for years on end.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: The thing is though, like when you say nothing that
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: we had to deal with for years on end, like
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: no matter if she had passed in the way that
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: she did or it was longer, I feel like, regardless,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: you're still dealing with it for years on end for sure.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: For sure, I mean it everybody in the family and friends,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And you know, the hardest day was hearing about her diagnosis.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: I was actually just coming back from iron Man Hawaii
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: for the World Championships in Kona, and it was very
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: gorilla back then, where I would literally show up with
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: a device and didn't have enough money for booth space
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: and would just show up at a cafe in the
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: morning at seven am, find my seat before anyone else
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: got there, plug in because we didn't have a battery
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: and the device back in the day, and literally pump
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: all through breakfast, hand out business cards. People would say
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: what is this? Stay through lunch, and then they'd kicked
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: me out when they closed about seventy eight o'clock at night.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: I did that for a couple of years, but coming
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: back and I was almost high, like, man, you know,
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: there's some good traction we got here, and then to
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: hear about that totally guts you. But at the same
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: time starting to think about that transition. And I was
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: twenty eight twenty nine at the time and taking over
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: the business, and we had some things good that were
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: going on, a lot of things that weren't great that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: were going on. But what do you do when you
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: have thirty five employees? How do you look at them
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: and say, the person that you've been following all these
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: years who's been your leader is no longer going to
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: be the leader. She stepped down from the time she
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: was diagnosed. I think she was back in the office
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: once and then going through every single piece of paper
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: on her desk, in her drawers, on her computer drive
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: to familiarize myself with what was going on was really
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: really challenging. So I grew up real fast at that point.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because I could ask you a
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: question right now, like were you ready for something like that?
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: But I think what we come to realize in these
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: unexpected situations is that the answer probably is I would
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: have never been ready for this.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone can be right. And I think
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: it really allowed me in hindsight, because you always my
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: mom would always have you know. Another favorite saying of
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: hers that obviously other people have heard of, but she
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: would use a lot is making lemonade of lemons, and
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: it's like, all right, well this is you know what
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: it is. It's shit, but you're going to do the
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: best you can with what you got. And being able
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: to say, I now know what I'm made of. I
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: don't know that I was ever pushed to my know
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: that I was never pushed to that point before where
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: I had to put up her shut up in a
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: big way. And it really allowed me to grow up
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: and understand who I am and allowed me to be
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: the person and the husband and father than I am today.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was like coming back into
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the office for the first time.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was tough. I had to figure out how
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: I was going to tell everybody and give them hope
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: at the time that maybe she'd beat this, because again
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: we didn't know, and not have them freak out because
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: whereas their mortgage payment going to come from and their
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: car payment and all the things that everyone thinks of
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: all the time in terms of my job situation. So
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: being able to study that and literally came up with
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: a plan. And I don't know where this came from,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: but I just kind of popped in my head when
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I took over, We're going to keep all the employees
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: that we have here. Even if maybe it was time
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to release a couple of people and let them go
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: or fire them, it was more important for the optics
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: and for the team building aspect to keep all the
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: employees on board. So for an entire calendar year, didn't
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: make any personnel changes, and there were definitely some moves
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: that I maybe should have made in hindsight, but that
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: was one way that I was trying to commit to
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: our team, and because I knew that it's great that
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: you could be CEO of a company, but it's really
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: the team and your technology that's going to allow you
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: to succeed or not succeed, And the team had to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: be robust and dialed in, and that was one way
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: that I attempted to do that.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: What were you doing for yourself at this point? Because
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like what you hear from a lot of
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: entrepreneurs when things get really hard is that they just
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: completely dive into the business. Right It's like, what can
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: I do in every single moment of my day to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: give to someone else, to not have to take any
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: time to focus on what's happening up here? And I'm
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: pointing to my head as if you can all see this,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: So what were you doing of anything for yourself at
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: this point? Just to kind of get by and maybe
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: even process the fact that it's not just that you
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: need to take over this company because like someone stepped away,
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: like this is your mother.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, if you ask my wife, sometimes she'll
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: say that maybe I still haven't dealt with it all.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I had to kind of throw myself into it because
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: just the sheer volume of the stuff that I was
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: doing before she was diagnosed, let alone taking over her
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: job and trying to be a quick study to get
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: up and running as fast as possible while we were
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: also navigating some of the real challenges at that time.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: There just wasn't enough time in the day. So I
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: would literally go to work, and then for six months
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: after she passed, I would spend between seven pm at
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: night till about eleven twelve at night going through all
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: of her documents and filing and throwing away and scanning
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: and ever just to get a you know, an understanding
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: of what she has to you know, what she was
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: up to, what she was working on, where the business
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: is but that and I think it was just maybe
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: a technique and a tactic that I had to not
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: have to deal with it in that moment, was just
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: to throw myself in the work. I mean, you said,
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: you've heard it from a lot of people, even if
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: they haven't navigated something like death as it pertains to
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: their business before, but just in terms of being an entrepreneur.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: So I think both of those created that perfect storm
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: of me just focusing on me less and the business more.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: What do you do when you're not working, Well.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm always working in my head. So you know, I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: have a great eighteen month old and my wife and
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: I really enjoy doing things with him. I have tapered
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: back a little bit for the first couple of years.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: When I took over, I was traveling probably three weeks
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: out of the month for a number of years, going
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: to all these different events and meetings and touch and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: base with people and really trying to put my face
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: forward as the head of the company. And we have
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: a tremendous staff that we've been able to build the
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: company around that can go out and last year, for example,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: we did I think two hundred and twenty events. We're
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: very experiential product. I want people to be able to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: learn about us, experience us, try the product out, and
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: ask questions face to face. So we do try to
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: go to a lot of those Iron Man events and
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: marathons in five k's to try to get out there.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: But I think it just really comes down to trying
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to reclaim you know, what are my interests now that
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I'm thirty seven and for the last eight years or so,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I've just been doing this. I think I mentioned to
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: you before it kind of feels like running a marathon,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: but at almost sprint speed this entire time, and it's taxing.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: But then you turn back around you look at all
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: the great people you're working with and all the great
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: things that the company has been able to do, and
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: that really is a source of pride for me. For sure.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Do you run not as well as I used to?
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Not as well as I used to?
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: What's that even mean? Well? You know, what do you define?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: How do you define? Well?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: My lungs definitely are hurting more as I'm getting into
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: my late thirties and in my early twenties. But I
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: think most people can can claim that I used to
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: be a big runner back in the day. And I
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: think just sitting behind a desk for you know, twelve
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: fourteen hours a day for you know, those first couple
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: of years, and then just continuing it's been a challenge,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: and it's it's tough because you work with unbelievable employees
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: where a lot of them we have CrossFit coaches, and
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: we have marathoners and triathletes, and we have a cat
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: one cyclist that works here, and everyone's constantly We're doing
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: constant workouts around the office and yoga and everything else.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: So we live in this environment of wellness and health
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: and it's not always the easiest thing to do. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: then you're hanging out with pro athletes of one sort
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: or another and you see what they're doing and you're like, wow,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: there's you know, running a five k would be great,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: but like, look, you know, he just broke the two
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: hour mark on the marathon for a human. I mean,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: that's unbelievable. So being able to see all these different
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: athletes and everything else, it's on inspiring and intimidating at
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: the same time.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Sometimes taking a break from today's episode to talk about
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: athletic greens. All right now, I'm not breaking any news here,
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  Speaker 1: Com slash Hurdle yours today, No code necessary. Let's get
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: back to it soon after you take over. Though, it
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: seems that in the timeline of things, norma tech starts
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: to become a household name in a lot with a
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: lot of these teams that you had only recently started
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: speaking with. What was that transition like.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: So we look at our customer base really as like
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: a pyramid, where the top one percent of the tip
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: of the pyramid. And we're talking about pro and top
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: college programs. We're talking about elite amateurs, those who are
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: training like pros but still maybe have a nine to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: five and a family to take care of it home
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: and are waking up at four am to go biking
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: and are running, you know, during their lunch hour and
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: everything else. It it's been interesting, it's it's it's been
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: really interesting, and I think the technology has brought us
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: to where we've been, and then the passion and to
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: improve the technology and make it more accessible. We could
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: have sat back in our laurels, which some companies do,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: and say, hey, we have this good product. It's too expensive,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: it's a little bulky. It is what it is, you know,
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: but we're just going to keep selling it. We're constantly evolving,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: and when we first got started, the machine was very expensive.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: The technology one wasn't available. We had to create some
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: of the technology that's inside the Normatech. But In addition
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: to that, just technology in general. We think back to
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: TVs ten years ago, let alone where they are today,
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: let alone where they're about to go, and the machines
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: going from four to five thousand dollars was the retail
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: price point originally down to twelve ninety five, so just
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: over one thousand bucks now. To get the technology with
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: so much more packed inside of it, without losing any
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: of the ooph that the machine can give you and
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: the overall efficacy was really important.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Was it mind blowing when more and more people were
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: reaching out to you wanting your product versus you having
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: to show up there and convince them that they needed it.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: It was on of mind blowing. I think there have
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: been a handful of things that I can come back
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: to certain moments that were pretty cool. Actually one from
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: Friday with Lady Gaga posting on her Instagram feed of
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: her in the Norma tech was always kind of cool
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: to see. But being able to go in and some
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: of my favorite things are when I'm talking to someone
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: and I don't tell them that I'm involved with the company,
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and they're telling me about this great system that they
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: use for recovery. It could be a pro athlete, and
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: it could be an amateur someone I just meet, you know,
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: sitting at the airport, and it's just really cool to
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: see the impact that it's had on people's day to
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: day routine.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: It's interesting that you brought up Lady Gagase. She's a
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: really good example of someone that might not be a
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: person that people think, oh, like, she would definitely be
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: using a norma tech, but the reality is that she
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: has chronic pain, so I'm sure that definitely helps her out,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: and she's someone that's on her feet constantly. I like
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: to destigmatize what can be something that someone might think like, well,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not a high athlete or I'm not a marathon
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: or like why would I get into this thing, and
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: bringing it back also then to its roots and how
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: it can be a recovery tactic for everyone.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, recovery is this new kind of thing. You know,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: ten fifteen years ago, you said recovery to someone and
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: they would think drug or alcohol and then you say, no,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: no athlete recovery and they would say, Okay, you're rehabbing
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: from something. There's a problem. But the idea of utilizing
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: certain techniques to enhance your performance in a legal way
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: is really that next pillar. We've all been focusing on
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: some element of coaching or training, nutrition or improving my
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: gear to increase my performance, and we've been very passive
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: about recovery up until now. It was, well, I'm going
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: to take a day off. I'm going to put my
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: legs up on the couch on a Sunday and watch
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: the game and not go out, you know, and hit
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: the road. Maybe I'll get a massage if I have
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: a ton of money and a ton of time, and
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: an ice bath is what the pros do. Maybe I'll
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: try that once or twice. Most people aren't doing that
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: on the regular. What else can I do? And being
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: able to look at your recovery as a means of
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: performing again is I think what more and more people
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: are kind of keying and on.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to recovery efforts. I mean, obviously
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: you have one solution here, but have you found that
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: people are pairing what you have to offer with other
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: modalities more frequently than others?
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: For example, Yeah, so modalities are interesting. We like to
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: write it out on the whiteboard sometimes, so we list
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: all of the modalities that typically you'll see being thrown
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: in an athlete, whether it's an elite athlete or someone
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: who is just trying to get the maximum benefit out
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: of a workout for health and wellness. And then you
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: look at all the dimensions that matter, so you can
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: look at everything from cryo to phone rolling to NORMA
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: tech to massage, and then all the dimensions that matter.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: So that could be everything from how effective is it post,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: the experience while you're doing the intervention, cost percession, et cetera,
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: et cetera, and we seem to kind of hit that
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: perfect kind of place where it's very effective post as
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: well as let's say, massage is very effective POST. But
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the cost percession is very low with Normatech, even though
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: it's over a thousand dollars for the equipment, when you
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: actually break it down, it's only like a buck or
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: two percession. And having your massage therapist at the ready
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: twenty four to seven is something that's going to be
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: less of a luxury and more of a how do
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: you not have that. It's something that we experience in
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: the pro world as well. When we first started, it
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: was a secret recovery tool, is what they would call it.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: And now they look at each other and go, well,
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: if you're not Normatech, and like, what's going on, Like
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: you should be doing this, just like good nutrition is
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: kind of a guarantee, Like you have to assume that
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: someone is going to be eating right if they want
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: to perform at the best way possible. But one technology
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: that we see happen a lot in conjunction with the
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Normatech is percussion and vibration. We work really closely with
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: our friends over at hyper Ice and with their Hyperbole technology.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Being able to sit down and kind of readying the
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: tissue and getting that area ready and then being able
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: to put the Normatech boots on and flush that out
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: seems to be a really nice one two punch.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: I did for the first time the other day. The
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: hip sleeves. I feel like we should explain, like what
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: this really means. So we've already talked about like that
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: what Norman Tych is, but we should probably explain, like
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: what are the options in the portfolio. I'll leave it
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: up to you.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: Awesome, So we have boots, we have arm sleeves, and
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: we have hips.
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: I've never done the arms.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Arms are awesome. I feel like you can look at
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: Lady Gaga, she was doing legs and arms at the
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: same time michelin Man. That's MC hammer pants and michelin
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Man or something that we get a lot, Okay, But
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: it's like big boots that you put on your legs.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: They go from your feet, you take your shoes off
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: all the way up your leg to your groin area.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: Arm sleeves will go over your rotator cuff and chests
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: and scapulo all the way down your fingers. The hips
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: look like a pair of ice hockey pants, if you're
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: familiar with that. I was watching a Boston Bruins game
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: a number of years ago, and I said, if the
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: guys want to protect that area, they probably also want
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: to recover it, so maybe we can model it. That
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: was at least the genus of the concept. But you
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: can connect two boots or two arms or the hip
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: piece up to a machine at a single time, and
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: you would sit down from anywhere from fifteen twenty minutes
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: on the low end up to an hour plus. Most
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: people will do it while they're watching TV. It's kind
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: of cool because you can integrate it into your existing routine.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: It's always tough. We're always trying to multitask in life.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: There's never enough time in the day. But being able
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: to get back to emails while you got the TV
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: on the background while you're getting your recovery on seems
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: to be a pretty standard thing. Something else that's been
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: floating around I think there was a hashtag that people
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: were thrown around about a year ago is Netflix and Normatech,
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: which is kind of cool to see that we're getting
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: out there. But you put these boots on and they
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: have multiple zones in them that connect up via this
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: hose to the machine, which has gotten really small and
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: kind of sexy these days with a lot of technology
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: packed in, and it's going to inflate and deflate the
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: sections of the boots, arms, or hips around you in
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: a way that's going to promote better blood flow in
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the body.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you mentioned a couple of different scenarios of
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: you traveling to Iron Man and things like that. If
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: you have to think about the crazy breath of places
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: that you have been over the last you know, at
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: least the last eight years or so. Do you have
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: any favorites from the repertoire.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so iron Man is always great. It's a little
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: human this time of year, but Hawaii is lovely love
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: going to France for the tour of France that was
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: kind of a cool thing. Did that for a number
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: of years, and we have a great crew that goes
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: out there and takes care of stuff and you know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: being able to get in And I think the other
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: cool thing is meeting both pro and amateur athletes getting
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: to know it's pretty amazing the people that sometimes you
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: think are cool or not, the people who sometimes you
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: don't know anything about end up being the coolest people.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: And it's really just getting out there and putting personality
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: and a face to maybe a name that you've just
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: developed rapport with over the years has always just, I
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: think been one of the most fun aspects of the job.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's kind of interesting you just kind of
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: triggered this in my mind. As someone who used to
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: view themselves as someone that wasn't cool at all, now
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: you have to have this presence to not only like
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: maintain a certain persona, but also be able to lead
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: a team. Do you ever find that maybe you're experiencing
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: a little bit of imposter syndrome at times?
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: Oh? For sure. I mean I think anyone who's trying
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: to make moves in life will feel that, hopefully at
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: one point or another, because I think that is a
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: way that we self check ourselves to some degree. But
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: you know, you have your core team around you, and
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: sometimes I'll look at them and say, can you believe
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: we're actually doing this? Can you believe that this person
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: just posted or we just got an order from the
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: US Olympic Committee for X y Z, or that you
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: know we're we're going into this opportunity, or we're creating
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: these norma tech branded recovery rooms at these pro teams,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: And it's unbelievable. But at the same time, yeah, I mean,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: who the hell am I to be doing this? Right?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's pretty special that you are. If you
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: look back over the time that you have been CEO
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: of this company, you have the opportunity to stand in
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: front of this team and show up every day. But
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: when you think about the people that have offered you
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: some of the best advice in your career, what would
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: you say that has been That's.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: A good question. I actually haven't gotten that one before.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: I have a business mentor older gentleman who's seen Wall
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Street over the years, retired now, and he looked at
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: me and he said, early on in my career, he said,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: if you can do good things with good people and
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: make money. That's kind of the trifecta of awesomeness. And
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: it doesn't always work out that way. But if again
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: I'm a big believer, if you go out and try
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: to just chase the dollar, that's all you're going to
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: be doing, and that's very short lived. If you can
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: actually go out and say, how am I going to
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: fundamentally change behavior or how are we going to actually
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: improve the experience of an athlete, allow them to maybe
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: question what's possible, push the boundaries and do those cool
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: things while you're working with cool people. That for us
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: seems to be hitting a nail on the head.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: You threw out Lady Gaga's name before. Who is someone
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: else that's really cool that you like think about constantly
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: as the pinch me, how did this even happen? Work
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: with me moment?
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: Oh man. We don't like throwing around names too much
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: because we have people in all spheres. But there's some
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: there's some football players and basketball players over the years
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: that I've been able to get in touch with, and
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: just unbelievable athletes of one sort or another that you know,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: For me, it's not just about what you can do
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: on the quarter on the field, But it's also about
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: the kind of person when all of this is said
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: and done, when they're retired, when you know, you know,
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: I'm older and retired from Normatech, Am I still going
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: to be able to be in touch with some of
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: these people? Am I gonna want to be in touch
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: with some of these people? And those that you can say, yeah, definitely,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: those are the ones that they're good eggs.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: I feel that I feel like whenever I get to
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: sit down and record with someone, I don't always know
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: if they feel this way about me, but I like
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: leave and I feel this deep connection and I'm like,
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: whatever you need, like I've got you. You show up
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: in New York, you want to grab dinner, I'm there.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: So I feel you. It's like you want to sit
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: down and get to work with people that you truly
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: value their experience and the person that they are.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: Emily, You're a connector, and I think that's why people
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: listen to you, is because you know anyone can ask questions,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: but being able to connect with the person you're interviewing.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of the reasons why Howard Stern
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: is so damn good at what he does because he
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: really connects and understands and ask those questions that allowed
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: the interviewee to really kind of expose a little bit
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: more about them.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that. Thank you, I appreciate you.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: You're welcome.
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're starting to wind down here. When you started
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: talking with all of the different colleges and athletic teams,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: that was something that felt like at the time was
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: almost like you couldn't even touch it. Now, obviously we've
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: conquered that hurdle. So my question for you is what
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: is the next thing that you're excited about to do
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: with this company?
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Good question. I think the biggest thing, and we're starting
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: to see this start to take form, is it's great
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: to work and again, if we look at our customer
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: base like a pyramid, it's great to be able to
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: work at the absolute pinnacle with the top of the perramid,
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: with the best athletes in the world. But our big
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: thing is how can we make the biggest impact on
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: lives in sport of all shapes and sizes, of different backgrounds,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: of different genders, of different abilities, of everything from basketball
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: at football to squash and badminton and sports that maybe
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: you don't even know anyone actually participating in at the
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: amateur level because there's so many more amateurs obviously than
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: there are pros. And being able to bring the technology
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: both to a price point and make the technology a
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: piece of the conversation of where maybe counting your steps
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: used to be the thing to do in the last
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: eight or ten years, focusing on recovery is really that
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: next big thing. Making compression the go to recovery option
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: of choice, making Norma Tech the brand name that's out
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: there that people are gravitating towards is really for us
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: the most exciting thing because that's really then bringing the
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: technology to the masses. And one of the things that
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: happened a couple of months ago is we just launched
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: this really cool partnership with best Buy. And you wouldn't
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: think recovery Athlete, best Spy. You'd think, maybe, okay, they
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: have some fitbits and some garments and some of that
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: tech that they'll sell you. What's the deal. Usually you
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: just rolling there and you're getting your TV and your BCR.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: If you're going back in the day, you know, right,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: But for them, they're seeing the writing on the wall
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: where this health and wellness This is not like a fad,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: This is not a crazy This is actually something that
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: is here to stay. And how do they get more involved?
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Connected health is really that next frontier. I mean, you're
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: rocking your Apple watch right now, and you got all
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: kinds of cool things in the next couple of years, and
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: you got your Whoop there and we love whoop there.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Good good bossing company. I know will really well. The
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: technology is just going to become more and more integrated
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: into your existing routine. You're gonna be able to pull
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: out even more and more data. I mean, back in
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: the day, it was a big deal just to have
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: a heartreach strap around your chest and then the corresponding
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: watch that you would have would be the size of
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: like a small juice box. And it's amazing where technology
• 51:26
  Speaker 2: has been. So best Buy I saw where this is going,
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: and they're creating this Connected Health portal both online for
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: sales where they got a whole bunch of products including Normatech,
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: as well as carving out space at their actual store.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: So you're going to start seeing that more and more
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: in the months and years to come.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I think people just crave data now, they just want
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: it and they want to know about everything they want
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: to understand it. It's not just these elite level athletes.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: It's like the everyday person that just wants to learn
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: about their body in a way that they weren't this
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: curious about before, which is really special. I also feel
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: compelled to tell you, and I wanted to say this
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: before that I also felt like I was really cool
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: in college and I was also dramatically overweight at the time.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: So when I think about that, and when I think
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: about what I do now, I still every day like
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: have a moment where I'm like, I'm helping empower people
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: to be healthier and like to be happy, and they
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: want advice from me, like what are we doing here?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: Like when did this start? When did this become a thing?
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: I don't even know?
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Right between your first marathon and last week when you
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: were in Chicago.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that. Okay, So the final question, unless
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: do you have anything? Did you You're good?
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: All right, So the final question. You have an opportunity
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: right now to offer the g who recently lost his
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: mom and is about to get into he doesn't really
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: maybe fully understand a piece of advice looking back on
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: that hurdle moment right now, what advice you get, just
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: like one of.
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: Those write a letter to yourself in high school or
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: something like that, What would you tell yourself.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, we could, we could record as long as
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: you want if you want to write a whole letter.
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, geez, that's a really good question. And I
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: think the answer is just keep pushing forward, don't stop
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: no matter what, because when you have those moments, and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: everyone does, and it's tough with social media because everyone's
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: looking at their highlight reel the other person's highlight reel
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: against your dirty laundry, right, But when you have those
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: moments when you're kind of in the pit of despair
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and you're feeling like, I don't know how I'm gonna make,
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: you know, ends meet for the company next week, whatever
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: it is, just keep pushing. And I like to say,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna keep going until they start taking out the
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: furniture and shut the lights off. So there's nothing that's
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: going to stop us. Everything that hasn't stopped us to
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: this point. We've just become stronger as results. So I'd
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: probably say to myself, don't stop and probably find my
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: wife sooner and marry her sooner. That would be the
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: other thing that I would find.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Do you guys have any vacation plans on the docket
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: for the next foreseeable future?
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Do we have any vacation Well, we took a little
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: bit of time in Maine this summer, so that was
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of fun. But she's pretty busy at all
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: the things that she does, and with the kid, there's
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: really never a vacation anymore, so it's a family trip
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: now instead of a vacation.
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: I love it. Well, thank you so much for sitting
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: down with me. Please take a moment and leave a
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: quick review of the podcast by clicking the link with
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: the description to this episode. We all face multiple hurdles
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: in life. I want to hear about yours. Reach out
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: to me at Emily at Hurdle dot us. Connect with
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: the podcast on Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle podcast. Gee,
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: where do they find you? Where do they find Norma Tech?
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Give me the deep.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: Norma Tech Recovery dot com and our Instagram handle is
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: nt recovery. Check us out. We got a really cool
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: interactive map where you can find out where we're going
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: to be both events and locations that have the Normatech
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: to try, and we really encourage people if you have
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: any questions, reach out via email or phone and ask
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: the questions. Hopefully we can give you some directions, some answers,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: and maybe you'll uh, you'll enjoy your experience.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: I love it. Another hurdle conquered. Catch you guys next time.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: M hm m m m m m m mm hmmmmmmm