Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP43 - Why Do Modern Heathen Kindreds Fail To Succeed?

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP43 - Why Do Modern Heathen Kindreds Fail To Succeed? · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:02
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:05
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things dramatic
• 0:08
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse, I am your
• 0:11
  host. Let's get into it.
• 0:40
  All right, everyone, hell and welcome back.
• 0:43
  To this week's episode. Of the podcast.
• 0:45
  Thanks for tuning in and listening to this or watching
• 0:50
  this. Wherever it is that you're.
• 0:52
  Catching this from If you are catching this on the Patreon
• 0:57
  drop, go ahead and leave a comment down below.
• 1:00
  Let me know where you're watching from and if you've been
• 1:04
  enjoying this season. Hope you have.
• 1:06
  Thank you so much for being a patron here on Patreon.
• 1:09
  For those of you else, everybody else out here that.
• 1:13
  That just listens, you know, whatever platform you're
• 1:16
  listening to this on. I know Spotify gives an option
• 1:20
  to leave a comment. You can feel free to drop a
• 1:23
  comment down below. Or over here, or over there or.
• 1:26
  Wherever any other platform that you're catching this on.
• 1:29
  If you've got the. Ability to do it, would
• 1:32
  appreciate it if you did. And also don't forget that if
• 1:42
  you do want to become a patron on Patreon, you can do so by
• 1:44
  just clicking the link tree link that's in my podcast show notes.
• 1:50
  It's got a link to all of everything that you can find me
• 1:53
  on all my socials patreons there.
• 1:56
  Otherwise, you can just go to patreon.com slash Midgard
• 2:00
  Musings joining at the. Carl Tier, which is just a
• 2:03
  dollar, gives you access. To all my video episodes or
• 2:07
  other paid member only access only, you know, type stuff.
• 2:11
  It does help with the production of this show and helps run the
• 2:15
  back end costs of, you know, editing and and all that fun
• 2:19
  stuff. So really appreciate any support
• 2:22
  that you're willing to to throw my way that way.
• 2:26
  But otherwise, thank you so much for listening.
• 2:29
  Wanted to do a, an episode this week on some things that I think
• 2:35
  gets, you know, gets talked about in a lot of groups or or
• 2:42
  individuals looking for groups. You know, I'm, I'm, I feel
• 2:46
  blessed and, and fortunate or however you want to call it,
• 2:51
  less than fortunate enough to be in an area of the world and an
• 2:56
  area in Midgard. That has a lot of.
• 2:59
  Different options with linking up together with people you
• 3:03
  know. I'm not in a very remote area of
• 3:06
  the state. There's a lot.
• 3:08
  Of alternative faith religions, whatever you want to call them
• 3:12
  in the area that are Pagan, there's a very rich community of
• 3:16
  the Norse, Germanic, Teutonic beliefs if you will, along with
• 3:23
  all different other kinds of things you know there's for
• 3:27
  being in such a. Critical.
• 3:33
  Area of the country where the Bible Belt runs through, you
• 3:36
  know. There's a lot of churches.
• 3:37
  There's a lot of. Christian presences and all
• 3:41
  that, to be in such an area like this in the country.
• 3:46
  We still do have a. Very vibrant and diverse Pagan
• 3:52
  slash Heathen community so I wanted.
• 3:55
  To just talk about. Some things that kind of been on
• 3:58
  my mind. About why we.
• 4:03
  Tend to see groups. That start.
• 4:05
  Or want to get started? Kindred's tribes, however you
• 4:09
  want to label them as I know those two terms quite often get
• 4:13
  used interchangeably, you know. But why specifically, you know,
• 4:21
  modern Kindred's modern tribes? Fail at getting started or or
• 4:29
  you. Know getting started,
• 4:33
  establishing themselves and then continuing on.
• 4:38
  If if you've been a heathen for any length of time in an area,
• 4:41
  you've probably seen kindred slash tribes.
• 4:46
  You come and go. They'll pop up then.
• 4:51
  They'll be around for a little while and then they.
• 4:55
  They'll disappear, they'll they'll fizzle out, they'll fall
• 4:58
  apart, or they'll. Really not be doing anything
• 5:05
  once they quote UN quote. Get established so.
• 5:08
  I wanted to talk. This week about.
• 5:10
  Why I think modern heathen kindreds don't endure.
• 5:18
  Or or. Fail, if you will.
• 5:20
  And then again, these are just my thoughts.
• 5:22
  These are just my observances. And if you're listening to this
• 5:28
  or, you know, watching this and you have your own thoughts on
• 5:32
  the on the. Topic please feel.
• 5:34
  Free to comment below or write into the podcast, you can do so
• 5:38
  by emailing Midgard Musings, tn@gmail.com.
• 5:43
  You can also call in to the podcast and leave a voicemail.
• 5:48
  It's a Google Voice number so so you I think you only have like a
• 5:51
  3 minute time limit. Some people will call in and
• 5:55
  leave multiple voicemails, but I'd be anxious.
• 5:57
  To hear your thoughts. And if you do, I'm happy to also
• 6:01
  include. The that audio.
• 6:02
  Here on a future episode, you know, as a response to something
• 6:06
  you know. So if you want to remain
• 6:07
  anonymous, you can, you can use a moniker or, or screen name or
• 6:12
  or whatever, you know, Hey, this is, you know, Joe Blow down the
• 6:19
  street, whatever. You can do that.
• 6:22
  And anyway, that number for the podcast is 61567198. 32 so.
• 6:30
  That's what we can talk about. If you want to share your
• 6:33
  thoughts or you know, leave a comment.
• 6:34
  However you want to interact, be interested to hear what the the
• 6:38
  audience has to, to say about these things.
• 6:42
  I kind of tried to narrow it down in a way to like the.
• 6:48
  Maybe top five. Things not necessarily in any
• 6:51
  specific order. You know why?
• 6:54
  We see. Modern Heath and Kendra's not
• 6:57
  succeeding. So that's kind of where we're
• 7:01
  going to to go in here with. This week of this episode if you
• 7:05
  do like this episode. And you're able to interact on
• 7:08
  the platform that you're catching this on in a, in a.
• 7:10
  Positive way with. You know, an upvote, any sort
• 7:15
  of, you know, reaction, anything that that.
• 7:17
  Shows your support. Would appreciate that also.
• 7:21
  So again, these are. You know 5.
• 7:23
  Reasons why I think things like this are failing, or have failed
• 7:30
  again, and they're not in any. Particular order, but I will.
• 7:32
  Start with my #5 selection. So I think that number 5 is that
• 7:41
  generally speaking, you know, people don't want to put the
• 7:45
  necessary work in and you know what do I mean by that?
• 7:52
  The necessary work to have a kindred.
• 7:55
  Or have a tribe or. Have any sort of?
• 7:57
  Group or collective of people. Again, I, I, I have several
• 8:02
  folks in the area that I'm friends with or acquaintances
• 8:06
  with that and in and in some some ways have have oathed
• 8:11
  kinship to here in my area and some.
• 8:15
  Folks groups are called. Different things, you know.
• 8:17
  So you might have a group of of heathens that call themselves.
• 8:19
  The such and such tribe. Or the such and such kindred
• 8:22
  have a couple of folks in the area.
• 8:25
  We have the Raven Moon hearth, you know, so they could they,
• 8:28
  they affectionately call themselves the hearth.
• 8:31
  Even though by and large, when you think of hearth, you think
• 8:33
  of something very, very small, very insular.
• 8:36
  You know the hearth meaning the home.
• 8:39
  But they get, you know, Raven when Hearth kindred again,
• 8:42
  they'll sometimes just. Be referred to as the hearth.
• 8:45
  We have the the Waldham Hoth in Clarksville.
• 8:50
  So, you know, some groups, depending on how far they're
• 8:53
  going in their establishments are, are referring to
• 8:56
  themselves. As a hoth which is like the.
• 8:59
  You know, Scandinavian, Old Norse word for something like a
• 9:01
  temple. Or or place of centralized place
• 9:04
  of worship for. The, you know, Norris pagans.
• 9:10
  So anyway, whatever terminology you can use, people don't
• 9:15
  necessarily want to put in the work or they don't want to put
• 9:18
  in the necessary work. And I think that that's an
• 9:21
  important one to to put on here is that.
• 9:23
  Because to have a tribe to have. A kindred to have any.
• 9:26
  Sort of collective or group of people It does.
• 9:30
  It takes work. From all of the necessary
• 9:32
  parties, right it one person can't be doing it all, two
• 9:37
  people can't even be doing it all again depending on.
• 9:40
  Kind of where the the structure or the OR the you.
• 9:45
  Know how that how that group wants to be established is going
• 9:48
  and how they want to kind of fashion themselves after
• 9:52
  especially starting out, you know it does.
• 9:54
  Take work. It's it's.
• 9:55
  It's a noble idea. For a lot of folks.
• 9:57
  Especially maybe people who are looking for their.
• 10:02
  Like like I refer. To sometimes as their heathen
• 10:05
  home, you know, a place that they can sort of settle in with.
• 10:08
  Other people of. Like minds and learn together
• 10:12
  with and grow with and do bloat and ritual and stumble and
• 10:17
  celebrate the holy days and and all that within the heathen
• 10:20
  fashion. You know they.
• 10:23
  It it takes work to get those people.
• 10:26
  Together to meet to help coordinate events if you're
• 10:32
  going to be doing anything, whether it's a park moot,
• 10:34
  whether it's a pub moot, whether it's a, you know, moot meeting
• 10:38
  like a meeting. So if it's like a.
• 10:39
  Public accessible. Thing where you know. 3 or 4
• 10:43
  core group. Members want to host something
• 10:47
  and get more people to come out, to be introduced, to get
• 10:49
  familiar, you know all that. Stuff takes.
• 10:54
  Work and it you know it it it can be a lot for one or even 2.
• 10:58
  People to try to. Manage so the burden doesn't get
• 11:01
  shared across. The group I.
• 11:03
  Feel and so as with many things, when you've got one person doing
• 11:07
  all of it or even two people you know doing all of it and it's
• 11:11
  it, it's a. Lot of work to.
• 11:13
  To get things planned, organized, established.
• 11:17
  That sort of structure made you can run into burnout, you know,
• 11:21
  people. Can get to where they.
• 11:23
  You know the the work as much as.
• 11:25
  They love the idea of it. You know, they're not seeing the
• 11:29
  return on their investment of time and effort.
• 11:33
  So I think that's one thing that.
• 11:35
  Particularly gets. Right out of the RIP, you know,
• 11:39
  right out of the gate gets the thing that that kind of pauses.
• 11:44
  Or even stops or ceases. A.
• 11:46
  A group from being established and growing is the.
• 11:49
  You know, people like the idea of it, that.
• 11:51
  But once they start getting into the meat and potatoes of doing
• 11:54
  things, you know, it might turn some people.
• 11:56
  Off or they're like, oh, I've got all this other.
• 11:58
  Stuff going on and, you know, managing our time when we're
• 12:03
  busy individuals and we have homes and families of our own to
• 12:07
  be dedicated to and obligated to adding another obligation of,
• 12:15
  you know, regular meetings with community and, and your your
• 12:19
  inner kind of inner circle, inner yard type folks having
• 12:24
  that. Added.
• 12:25
  Responsibility or obligation can sometimes be a bit over
• 12:29
  overburdening, so I think that again while the.
• 12:33
  Idea of it gets. People's minds, you know they
• 12:38
  want to do it and then when the metal meets the meat it it turns
• 12:43
  a lot of people off and if you know it's a sad and unfortunate
• 12:46
  thing if. That's if that's.
• 12:47
  True. I mean I I again I see.
• 12:49
  A lot of or have. Seen examples of that where you
• 12:53
  know, oh you know, we, we have this, this kindred.
• 12:57
  Up here, the over there. And you know, you don't hear
• 12:59
  anything from them and then you go looking for them and they
• 13:01
  haven't done anything substantial.
• 13:03
  They haven't done anything in their community.
• 13:05
  They haven't done anything in their area.
• 13:06
  They haven't held bloat. They haven't had stumble.
• 13:08
  They haven't done any sort of meetings or gatherings at the
• 13:12
  community level or anything for like years.
• 13:15
  And it's like, you know what's happened?
• 13:17
  You know, is it? Did, did, did you just?
• 13:18
  Kind of jump into this thing without really putting the
• 13:22
  necessary thought into it and realizing what work is going to
• 13:26
  be. Required or what so?
• 13:31
  I think again, for people that are looking for the heathen
• 13:38
  community at Heathen Kindred, something again, that is that is
• 13:41
  closer knit than the broader community, because again,
• 13:44
  there's a very rich, vibrant and and diverse heathen community in
• 13:48
  the area that I live in. And maybe wherever you're
• 13:50
  listening or watching from with this episode, you know, maybe
• 13:54
  they're you have something similar in your area.
• 13:56
  But what I'm talking about is from within that community is,
• 13:59
  is, is, you know, is built Kindreds are smaller, you know,
• 14:03
  closer knit groups of people. Not everybody in the community
• 14:07
  is going to be. A part of.
• 14:10
  This kindred that tribe. But they're all still.
• 14:13
  Part of the community. So, you know, maybe there's just
• 14:15
  that lack of understanding what it means to, to, to be heathen,
• 14:22
  right? To, to put the work in, to, to
• 14:24
  to get things done, and and to. Have work to show for it so as
• 14:32
  you're if. You're in an area where you're
• 14:33
  looking for heathen tribe, Heathen kindreds.
• 14:38
  Understand that. You know when you find a a group
• 14:41
  of people in a community that are doing these sorts of things,
• 14:44
  is is to know and understand you know what what their.
• 14:48
  Approach is to the work. Involved of maintaining it and
• 14:52
  be a contributor, right, nobody, I don't think anybody.
• 14:55
  That is. Kind of managing or leading or
• 15:00
  or working in a in a small group tribe, kindred, whatever wants
• 15:05
  unnecessary baggage. You know, they're not going to
• 15:07
  want people. I don't think that are that are
• 15:10
  just not doing their part. It goes.
• 15:13
  Back to to a. A pretty important.
• 15:16
  Aspect. Of of heathen world views are
• 15:19
  are the worth thing processes, you know, doing your part,
• 15:23
  proving your worth. Because everybody has a role.
• 15:26
  Everybody has a responsibility, and without that worth being
• 15:31
  shown and proven, everyone effectively begins as being
• 15:37
  worth less. And that could be a tough thing
• 15:40
  to hear in in in modern context, especially when you start saying
• 15:44
  somebody is. Worthless or this or that.
• 15:45
  Like that can sound really harsh and that can make it sound like,
• 15:49
  you know, like a real negative thing.
• 15:52
  And it's not meant to be that way.
• 15:54
  In the heathen worldview, in in the context in which I'm talking
• 15:57
  about, everyone starts out when you.
• 15:59
  When you first meet people. Not knowing them from each
• 16:04
  other, You know I, I, you know some of my nearest and dearest
• 16:07
  friends to me now, and kinsman to me now.
• 16:10
  Started off as. Them being worthless to me and I
• 16:14
  to them, because we didn't have anything established between one
• 16:17
  another to determine our worth. It took time and it took effort.
• 16:24
  It took work necessary on both sides, on all.
• 16:27
  Sides to establish that, so that is also part.
• 16:34
  Of the work, it's, it's more than just, you know, the
• 16:36
  individuals planning, it's everybody being a part of it.
• 16:39
  What can I do to help? How can I help?
• 16:41
  What do you need me to do? You know, or seeing things
• 16:44
  needing to be done, taking the initiative.
• 16:45
  So hey, do you mind if I jump in here?
• 16:47
  Can I, can I do this, you know, and just just having that
• 16:52
  initiative. So another one here.
• 16:57
  So that'd be like my and like in one of my top five and I have
• 17:02
  them numbered and I'm sharing them on screen for those that
• 17:05
  you. Guys, gals that are watching.
• 17:06
  But again, nothing really in any particular order, but anyways
• 17:11
  for number. Four I had there is.
• 17:13
  A general lack of knowledge of source materials.
• 17:19
  I think this has been a, you know, and it's.
• 17:21
  Odd, because like we have. So much available to us now,
• 17:24
  especially in this day and age. For newer folks coming into
• 17:28
  Heathenry, there is everything is so accessible when it comes
• 17:33
  to sources, knowledge, you know the sagas.
• 17:36
  The the the the Eddas. Folklore even.
• 17:42
  There's so much available and accessible to us.
• 17:45
  That for folks that. Are, you know, 20-30 years plus,
• 17:49
  you know, ago getting into Heathenry, it was much harder.
• 17:53
  They didn't. You know, the Internet wasn't.
• 17:54
  As as as as as. Accessible or available and you
• 17:59
  know. You basically had to go to a
• 18:00
  library. Or you had to know somebody with
• 18:02
  a with a library or collection of books and stuff that you had.
• 18:07
  That you could. Borrow and learn from and you
• 18:09
  know there was a lot more old school type approaches to it so
• 18:15
  nowadays. For people to.
• 18:16
  Have a lack of knowledge. Of just your heathen sources.
• 18:23
  You know how many folks don't know what's in That is how many
• 18:28
  people don't know about how many sagas haven't have or even have
• 18:32
  read anything from the Eddas or the sagas.
• 18:36
  You know, it goes back to the kind of, you know, lack of
• 18:39
  interest or, or just failing to put in the work.
• 18:42
  Like if you're going to be a heathen kindred, a heathen
• 18:46
  group, know what it is about Heathenry, know your sources,
• 18:50
  know things about. This.
• 18:54
  This folk way. This.
• 18:55
  This faith way, this this. Religion, this belief know
• 19:00
  things. About it to, to, to, to work
• 19:01
  off. Of otherwise you're just going
• 19:05
  to run into this kind of of a rampant issue where individual
• 19:15
  thoughts and ideas and and and experiences get get brought into
• 19:21
  the mix as. A like it's it's.
• 19:24
  Canon, you know, or it's dogma, you know, like.
• 19:25
  This is the way it's. Always been and well, OK, but
• 19:27
  where from what from what source are you getting it from?
• 19:31
  I'm talking like, you know, UPG stuff, unverified personal
• 19:34
  gnosis that's been a a a sort of long going or long running and
• 19:43
  and perhaps even maybe rising issue where, you know, people
• 19:46
  aren't dedicating enough time and, and focus and attention
• 19:51
  into. Source materials to.
• 19:53
  Learn about where this belief comes from and where these ideas
• 19:57
  and this world views are established from and they're
• 19:59
  just coming up with things themselves and trying to pass
• 20:01
  them off as as long established traditions or facts.
• 20:07
  I'm not saying to completely abandoned your UPG.
• 20:10
  You know, there is, in my opinion, a very important place
• 20:14
  and for that within. Heathenry because again, your
• 20:20
  experiences are your own and there's nobody that can
• 20:24
  discredit or invalidate your experiences when you have them.
• 20:34
  And I also maintain that when it comes to UPG, you know, many,
• 20:37
  many of the traditions that are have been long established were
• 20:41
  Once Upon a time the UPG of. A culture of a of a.
• 20:46
  Of a person or. A people.
• 20:49
  From again, they didn't have a source that.
• 20:51
  They could go by before the editors were.
• 20:53
  Written before the sagas, before all of these things were ever
• 20:56
  established, these things that are tradition now.
• 21:01
  Started off as UPG. You know thing of it is is.
• 21:09
  Is is. Heathenry by and large isn't a
• 21:11
  is a reconstruction or reconstructed religion there
• 21:16
  there's not a lot in source. Materials that give a lot of
• 21:21
  very. Specific information about a
• 21:23
  lot, but there is enough specific information about you
• 21:27
  know, when were when were bloats done?
• 21:31
  Who were they done for? Some of the mechanics of a bloat
• 21:36
  with might, you know, there there's things found in some of
• 21:38
  the sagas and stuff about what was done, what was present
• 21:43
  items, proceedings, different laws.
• 21:47
  Like you know, again, there's so much when it comes to knowledge
• 21:49
  in the source material that if one were to just take the time
• 21:52
  and learn and study, you're not going to pick it up all up
• 21:55
  overnight. You're not going to pick it up
• 21:56
  even in the 1st. Few years, it's a lot of work.
• 22:00
  To get that information to. Absorb it is easily accessible
• 22:06
  as it is it. Still takes time to.
• 22:08
  To get through it all. And I'm definitely not saying
• 22:11
  that one should, you know, be so you know that you have your nose
• 22:17
  so buried deep in the books that you're tripping over your own
• 22:19
  feet because you're not looking at what's in front of you.
• 22:24
  So there's a balance there I feel that needs to to take.
• 22:26
  Place, but it is. Something that I feel like if
• 22:29
  you're just going into Heathenry without any knowledge or with a
• 22:32
  very minimal knowledge of your source materials, you're, you're
• 22:37
  really not setting yourself up well for the long term.
• 22:41
  Because you're. Going to be kind of swayed by
• 22:44
  every wind of doctrine or every wind of a person's opinion, or
• 22:47
  every. Thought or idea or?
• 22:49
  Experience that is had not even of your own, but of somebody
• 22:56
  else's. And you're going to have this
• 22:58
  again, especially is true for newer newbies, newbie heathens,
• 23:02
  baby heathens, you know, coming into this.
• 23:07
  It it it's easy. For them to again, just be kind
• 23:10
  of. Carried about with that.
• 23:14
  Another person's ideas or or or opinions or experiences.
• 23:18
  So if you don't have that basic knowledge, if you're not
• 23:22
  absorbing that material. That that those those those
• 23:24
  source materials. You're not letting, you're not
• 23:27
  laying a foundation down. For where to build off.
• 23:31
  From SO there's nothing for it to be established on and it's
• 23:34
  going to crumble. It's not going to last.
• 23:36
  It's going to. Be really rocky so.
• 23:40
  I think that's another important aspect of, you know, having a,
• 23:45
  a, a good strong established tribe or kindred for.
• 23:48
  It to be successful is. You know the members need to
• 23:51
  know the. Lore their their, their sources
• 23:56
  and. Have the people in positions
• 23:59
  within. That group that are
• 24:03
  knowledgeable. With that sort of thing.
• 24:07
  That are sort of keepers of the lore keepers.
• 24:10
  Of the knowledge that can teach and, and, and help others learn
• 24:16
  in the way that best suits them. Because not everybody is
• 24:19
  academically driven to go sit and read, you know, 15 blogs a
• 24:22
  day or buy, you know, seven books from Amazon and read them
• 24:26
  in two months. You know, a lot of people don't
• 24:28
  absorb information that well in that way.
• 24:33
  A lot of other a lot of people are better taught.
• 24:36
  Through with people involved, right You can, you know, like.
• 24:42
  Book clubs or or whatever. Where you know you get together
• 24:45
  and and there's a group reading or a group gleaning from.
• 24:48
  This this particular source so. That's another, you know, way
• 24:53
  for groups and people to to grow together is understand what the
• 24:57
  needs are of the individuals in the community or in the tribe or
• 24:59
  the the kindred that is that is working together and work
• 25:06
  together in that in that way, not just be like, all right.
• 25:09
  Everybody you know, buy a. Copy of the Poetic Edda and have
• 25:11
  it read and completed by, you know, two months from now or a
• 25:14
  month from now or whatever where.
• 25:16
  Some people. Could sit down, look at pages of
• 25:19
  a book and go and not absorb anything.
• 25:23
  I know several. People like that Where?
• 25:25
  You know, you give them something to read and it's if
• 25:28
  they they don't absorb it that. Way it's better if it's.
• 25:31
  Orally explained to them or given to them in in.
• 25:33
  Pieces so but the fact that it is is that.
• 25:37
  The lower the knowledge should be there, you know you should
• 25:39
  have that working knowledge. And when it comes to Lore 2, I I
• 25:45
  want to make mention of the fact that I think that you know every
• 25:52
  individual. Group every separate tribe
• 25:56
  kindred. Whatever, they're going to have
• 25:58
  their own. Lore that that.
• 26:02
  That comes about that. That is established so their.
• 26:04
  Traditions are going to be slightly different than the next
• 26:08
  tribes. And that's, you know, one of the
• 26:09
  things I've talked also about in in other.
• 26:12
  Episodes or with other people. Is, you know, there's the the
• 26:15
  sovereignty of tribe, you know, not every heathen tribe just
• 26:19
  because their heathen is going to be doing exactly the same
• 26:21
  thing in exactly the same way. Each tribe needs to have their
• 26:26
  own traditions, their own kind of lore that is capped and
• 26:31
  maintained and and and practiced their own what we say in in
• 26:35
  either ways through or customs. You know those those things kind
• 26:39
  of being the. Law of that tribe, but to have
• 26:43
  the the the basis. Of them established in valid
• 26:48
  sources is important all right so that.
• 26:53
  That would be my. You know, again, the number one,
• 26:55
  you know, say #4 #3 I feel is important as well, and that is
• 27:04
  forcing things to happen. Oh, I need to have a tribe,
• 27:09
  right? I need to be in a tribe in order
• 27:11
  to be a heathen, because, you know, heathenry.
• 27:15
  Is is a tribal practice? It's, it's, you know, it's
• 27:17
  everything's about with people and you got to, in order to
• 27:20
  experience what Heathenry is really about, it needs to be
• 27:23
  done with with. Groups of people.
• 27:25
  Together, you know? You can't stumble by yourself.
• 27:28
  You can't do bloat without, you know.
• 27:32
  A collective of people together. And so that can sometimes put
• 27:38
  this sense, I feel of urgency in making things happen right then
• 27:47
  and there, you know, to be like, I got to find a tribe or I got
• 27:51
  to start one because there's not one in my area.
• 27:53
  So I've got to, you know, I got to just find as many people as I
• 27:57
  can who believe in this and then, you know, boom, boom,
• 27:59
  boom, hit, you know? Build this this this group.
• 28:02
  Forcing it to happen, I think. I think that this is probably
• 28:06
  one of the most dangerous pitfalls of why modern kindreds,
• 28:12
  modern tribes in heathenry don't succeed.
• 28:17
  One of the things that I remember learning about very
• 28:21
  early on in my heathenry. Was through Eric.
• 28:24
  Shervin through his channel on YouTube, the Ravens call and how
• 28:29
  he would describe you know what? It takes to build.
• 28:33
  A community or or tribe from community.
• 28:37
  It was. You know.
• 28:39
  Very methodical. The process worked.
• 28:42
  And continues to work for almost anybody that that that applies
• 28:47
  it in that way. Is you got to take.
• 28:50
  Those baby steps, you can't brush it, you can't force it.
• 28:53
  It has to happen organically. You know, that can sometimes
• 29:01
  also there can be there can be a a a danger to just not doing
• 29:05
  enough of the work. Again, goes back to one of the
• 29:07
  first things I mentioned where my #5 pick, you know was this,
• 29:11
  you know, people not present to do the necessary.
• 29:14
  Work. You know, just because something
• 29:16
  is growing organically doesn't mean that there isn't work to be
• 29:18
  done in the process. You can grow a garden
• 29:21
  organically, but it's not going to grow by itself.
• 29:23
  You you still have to water it. You still have to weed the.
• 29:27
  The ground you still have to, you know, deal with, you know,
• 29:33
  in insects, insects, pests, things trying to, to tear your
• 29:36
  garden up, right. So there's work to be done to
• 29:38
  grow food organically. Same thing with the tribe or
• 29:44
  Kindred, right? I once took upon myself to try
• 29:49
  and force something to happen around Yule or around, you know,
• 29:56
  it wasn't the technically. Historically, the.
• 30:00
  The time when Yule. Was celebrated.
• 30:02
  In pre pre Christian Scandinavia, however, it was the
• 30:06
  time where I was like, I'm going to get.
• 30:08
  All these people together. That I know online and we're
• 30:10
  going to have a big Yule thing, you know, and I had, you know,
• 30:14
  1520 people in my house that I never met except talk to online
• 30:19
  before, you know and it. Was it was a.
• 30:22
  Disaster, you know, it turned out it was a learning process,
• 30:25
  but boy was it a disaster. I was forcing things.
• 30:29
  I was I was trying to, you know, have this sense of tribe, the
• 30:33
  sense of group, you know, community, whatever, do some
• 30:36
  altogether with people who I've never talked more than just
• 30:40
  like, you know, in conversation online before and enforcing
• 30:44
  things like that. Doesn't this again, it doesn't
• 30:47
  establish a strong foundation. It takes time for roots.
• 30:51
  To be established, it takes. Time for cement to harden.
• 30:54
  It takes time for foundations to be strong enough to withstand
• 30:58
  the growth that comes with it. Like you can't, you can't lay a
• 31:02
  foundation of a house and then just start adding the timber to
• 31:05
  it the same day. Like you need to wait for the
• 31:07
  thing those things to. Settle.
• 31:08
  You need to wait. For those things to harden.
• 31:12
  So it takes time and forcing it to happen out of an interest of
• 31:17
  wanting it so badly. Again, the idea of it, the
• 31:19
  romanticized perception of tribe and, you know, closeness,
• 31:24
  kinship and all that. Forcing it to happen is only
• 31:28
  going to result in a quick and messy.
• 31:31
  Disaster it's it's going to. Fall apart.
• 31:34
  You're not going to have anything established with
• 31:37
  regards to Frith obligation, anything that that.
• 31:42
  That are that are critical. Components to a strong and and
• 31:46
  long lasting. Group.
• 31:49
  You just it's not going to be there if you.
• 31:51
  Force it. One of the things I remember
• 31:57
  taking an approach at after learning my lesson with that
• 32:00
  thing at the, you know, that I did with that one Yule
• 32:03
  celebration was to not so much like we're not trying to recruit
• 32:09
  people, not trying to find people.
• 32:10
  Hey, you want to be a part of this, You want to be a part of
• 32:12
  that. Like it's not a recruitment.
• 32:13
  Process it's. Living in a way and, and
• 32:18
  networking with people in the area and talking with people in
• 32:21
  the area and letting the thing happen organically, right?
• 32:26
  Talking with people and and then saying, Hey, you know, I like, I
• 32:30
  like the way you think, or you know what?
• 32:33
  We like the way each. Other thinks and we.
• 32:36
  Work off of those those. Common goals together.
• 32:40
  And then there's a, there's, it's almost like a magnet, you
• 32:44
  know? Where the work that.
• 32:47
  Is being done, is attracting people to come to you.
• 32:49
  Don't. You're not having to go out and
• 32:52
  recruit people, you're not having to force people to come
• 32:54
  to you. Right the the the work.
• 32:55
  That's being done is. Attractive to the right people.
• 32:59
  And those people come kind of like the old, you know, Field of
• 33:03
  Dreams famous quote from Field of Dreams.
• 33:06
  If you build it, they will come. It means.
• 33:10
  Literally if you do. This thing the.
• 33:12
  Right way it will. The the the growth will come.
• 33:16
  Because it's it's. Organic it's natural it's from
• 33:19
  the heart it's genuine it's sincere it it's not meant to be
• 33:27
  you know this plague and sort of I said that right plague and
• 33:33
  these. You know people that lark.
• 33:35
  That that, that dress up. And that's fine if you want to
• 33:36
  dress up. And I'm not trying to say that,
• 33:38
  you know, one is the same as the other, but you know, playing
• 33:41
  Pagan, you know, you're playing playing dress up trying to.
• 33:44
  Look the part with your haircuts, or with your beards,
• 33:47
  or with. Your mule nears.
• 33:48
  Or with this, or with that. You can have an aesthetic, you
• 33:52
  can have a style. OK, I but.
• 33:55
  It that that it's that's. Only surface level OK, so again
• 34:01
  forcing things to happen outside of their natural progression of
• 34:05
  things and then again knowing how the natural organic growth
• 34:09
  of things happen can can sometimes you know you're going
• 34:13
  to have. Periods of drought.
• 34:16
  You're going to have periods of plenty.
• 34:17
  You're going to need to trim and prune and manage.
• 34:21
  The growth of. Things along the way, but.
• 34:26
  That's part of its growth. That's part of how things.
• 34:28
  Grow the oak doesn't. Become the mighty oak, you know,
• 34:33
  overnight takes years and years and years of endurance and then
• 34:38
  and you know all the things that it goes through to to grow and
• 34:41
  to become the mighty oak. That it is.
• 34:47
  So don't, you know, don't force it to happen again.
• 34:50
  If you're in an area where there's nothing going on really,
• 34:53
  there's no tribes or kindreds doing anything, you want to take
• 34:58
  the initiative and do something great, you know, be you know, be
• 35:01
  the example that attracts other like minded.
• 35:05
  People talk about it, be about it.
• 35:09
  Project that sincerity, live it and be ready for for the work to
• 35:16
  come that that that needs to happen.
• 35:20
  OK #2 what did I have here? Oh yeah, failure to establish
• 35:29
  structure. In order.
• 35:30
  OK, so so OK. So now you know you've got a
• 35:33
  group or. There's a group of people.
• 35:36
  That, you know, get together and everybody's got their own ideas,
• 35:39
  great ideas. Maybe even, you know, and but
• 35:45
  there's no, there's no established order.
• 35:48
  There's no established, established structure on
• 35:52
  executing these ideas. One of the things I think that
• 35:58
  gets sometimes lost or not talked about too much with
• 36:05
  Heathenry is is, you know, some people might think that a you
• 36:09
  know, it's do whatever you want. You know, it's, it's all
• 36:13
  inclusive and the right ones are right.
• 36:14
  It's all inclusive and everybody can just, you know, however we
• 36:17
  want to do it. We just got to, you know, follow
• 36:20
  our hearts and, and follow the gods and directions and you
• 36:24
  know, this and that and. There is order, there is
• 36:27
  structure. If you look at the Lord, look at
• 36:30
  the source materials. It's riddled and and vibrant and
• 36:35
  and very much expresses. A Society of people that.
• 36:42
  Knew the importance of having order even in the mythology.
• 36:48
  You know what are and who. Are the gods and who?
• 36:51
  Are the OR the yotnar? It is.
• 36:57
  Order against disorder, order against chaos.
• 37:00
  It's nature deified. If you you know think of you
• 37:04
  know what elements and forces of nature, you know the storm, the
• 37:10
  sun, you know the rain brings the harvest and it can also
• 37:14
  flood a. A field or or.
• 37:17
  All these various things, there are these, these checks and
• 37:19
  balances that happen, this, this, back and forth, this.
• 37:21
  Order versus chaos, Order versus disorder.
• 37:24
  But. The gods, the ACR, you know they
• 37:27
  are. They are for.
• 37:28
  Order they are for maintaining order and structure, whereas you
• 37:33
  know the yotnar are. These sort of chaotic.
• 37:37
  Forces of nature that can, can seek to destroy or eat away at
• 37:45
  that order. So while there's plenty of
• 37:49
  things that can be seen as, you know, there's nothing
• 37:52
  necessarily, you know, it's not like, you know, heathenry.
• 37:56
  There's like an equivalent to a Bible.
• 37:59
  Or or a book of. Doctrine or instructions that
• 38:01
  must or should be followed in order for you to be, you know, a
• 38:04
  good heathen. There's definitely things about
• 38:08
  being heathen. That should be addressed, It
• 38:13
  should be followed. It should be adhered to if if.
• 38:16
  You're wanting to. Be a good.
• 38:18
  Person a good heathen. And part of that is to have
• 38:21
  order and to have. Structure.
• 38:23
  So when you know, groups get together and there's there's
• 38:25
  this. Lack of.
• 38:27
  You know. Structure this lack of of
• 38:29
  leadership. I think you know a lot.
• 38:33
  Most kindreds, most tribes find that out very early on.
• 38:36
  You know, we need to, you know, how is our kindred, How is this
• 38:39
  tribe whatever, how we're going to be structured, you know, are
• 38:41
  we going to have a Chieftain Indigothy, or is that role or
• 38:44
  responsibility going to be combined into one person's title
• 38:48
  or position of leadership? Are we going to have?
• 38:52
  A a dedicated. Person for runes or is that
• 38:55
  person going to be also responsible for ceremony?
• 38:58
  Would that also fall under, you know, are we going to have one
• 39:01
  person as? Gothy or geethya?
• 39:03
  And another person as the. Vicki or the OR the OR the OR
• 39:07
  the vulva. Or are we going to have one
• 39:10
  person take care of both of those responsibilities?
• 39:12
  So the, you know, the runic divination and the ceremonial
• 39:15
  ritual facilitators, are they going to share that
• 39:19
  responsibility or are we going to have separate?
• 39:20
  You. Know are we going to have a sort
• 39:23
  of, you know, keeper? Of the tribal laws or.
• 39:27
  Customs. You know, a skull, The law.
• 39:29
  Speaker a fool. You know, and those are like
• 39:34
  your, you know, positions, you know.
• 39:36
  Your your titles of leadership. Everybody has a job in that
• 39:39
  role, so there there is order and.
• 39:44
  Structure to. That and then understanding
• 39:46
  that, you know, this isn't a, you know, it's not a
• 39:48
  dictatorship, it's not anybody one, it's not one person's rules
• 39:52
  or decisions that that run this. It's a, you know, a.
• 39:56
  Good tribe, I feel. Is is kind of run by consensus
• 40:00
  and and there is. Order and there was structure in
• 40:04
  the positions of leadership for a reason.
• 40:08
  While it is also seen as you know, we we take consensus for a
• 40:12
  lot of things here. We we need to understand what is
• 40:14
  good and right. For the tribes.
• 40:17
  Benefit not just one person's interests being, you know,
• 40:21
  looked at or ego being stroked. So it's good to have it
• 40:28
  established. Early on.
• 40:31
  That. You need order, you need
• 40:33
  structure, and that kind of goes into one of the last things or,
• 40:38
  or, or the last thing that I had and, and I put it at #1 because
• 40:43
  again, you could put these in order in any which way because
• 40:45
  one person might think you know #5 should be at #1 or #3 should
• 40:50
  be at number. Four or whatever, but.
• 40:52
  My number one thing is that, you know, people's egos get in the
• 40:57
  way. So you get this idea of order,
• 41:00
  this idea of structure. And that can turn into this
• 41:06
  power hungry, ego driven thing. And I've, you know, I've, I've,
• 41:16
  I've not witnessed personally, but I've, I've heard plenty of.
• 41:19
  Ugly stories about this. Happening in in heathen modern
• 41:24
  heathen kindreds. Where or or other groups.
• 41:28
  Are you know kindred etcetera, the you know, there's this
• 41:32
  person that is established in this position and they and they
• 41:35
  they get. It gets to their head.
• 41:38
  They're not listening to their to their tribes needs.
• 41:41
  They're not looking at the benefit.
• 41:42
  Of the people, they're they're. Just wanting it to be done their
• 41:45
  way and their way alone, and it becomes like a dictatorship,
• 41:49
  probably one of the. Quickest ways for.
• 41:50
  A tribe to implode and and not last is when leaders become like
• 41:56
  that again. The the order needs to be there.
• 42:03
  I think that those titles in those positions should be voted
• 42:07
  upon. It should be that you know the
• 42:10
  the. Group or the collective.
• 42:12
  Deems these people worthy of serving in that capacity because
• 42:16
  these you know titles or positions of a tribe in in
• 42:21
  modern heathen ring you know Chieftain go the Githya Thule.
• 42:25
  Skald, Volvo, Vitki, whatever. Right, these are all important
• 42:30
  positions that carry with them a great.
• 42:31
  Deal of obligation. And responsibility.
• 42:34
  And it shouldn't. Be those those titles.
• 42:37
  Those responsibilities and those jobs shouldn't be imparted to
• 42:40
  somebody just because. They feel like they're the.
• 42:43
  Best ones at it. It should be that the.
• 42:45
  People, however big or small. The the group is.
• 42:51
  You know the people should be the ones to say that person is.
• 42:55
  Best suited to. Serve in the capacity of
• 42:59
  whatever Chieftain chief. Does go to the Githya?
• 43:02
  You know, whatever. And that's, you know, I've seen
• 43:08
  or or heard of, you know, groups that don't.
• 43:11
  Approach it that way that. You know are.
• 43:13
  You know they're they're self. Appointing positions, you know,
• 43:17
  I'm going to be this, I'm going to be that.
• 43:19
  And so long as you're here, you know you're under my rule.
• 43:22
  Like this sort of patriarchal dictatorship, that sort.
• 43:28
  Of thing like that doesn't. I don't think that really works
• 43:32
  well in modern times anymore. It hasn't for a while.
• 43:39
  So if you're. Looking for a heathen home and
• 43:43
  the one that you. Are.
• 43:45
  Exploring or thinking of establishing your roots in has
• 43:50
  a. Leadership set up.
• 43:51
  Similar to what I just. Described where you know.
• 43:54
  That one person or two people have the, you know, it's end
• 43:58
  all, be all. You do what I say, no questions
• 43:59
  asked, no consensus. I'm not trying to tell you what
• 44:03
  to do, but I'm, I'm saying be cautious about going forward in
• 44:07
  groups that conduct themselves that way.
• 44:10
  It doesn't end well in pretty much every, you know, in every
• 44:15
  situation that I've ever heard of.
• 44:17
  So. Yeah.
• 44:20
  It's. I don't know it's.
• 44:23
  People get this idea or this this.
• 44:25
  Notion of something and they. They get excited.
• 44:27
  About it, they want to go and do it and then they're like, yeah,
• 44:29
  I want to I want to do this I want to do that I want to have,
• 44:34
  you know, all these grandiose ideas of of what it should be
• 44:38
  and and they're not allowing for the.
• 44:40
  For the heart of it to, to, to. To thrive and to be fed.
• 44:45
  So, so watch. Out for all of that.
• 44:48
  So there you go. That's my kind of breakdown as
• 44:52
  to why I think that modern heathen kindreds or tribes.
• 44:56
  Fail to succeed. I think that there might be even
• 45:00
  other things that I didn't cover.
• 45:02
  But these were some these. Were, you know, again the.
• 45:04
  The top five causes root causes, if you will.
• 45:09
  So I'd be anxious to hear what you all think if you had
• 45:12
  anything thoughts and that that things I may have missed, you
• 45:15
  know, if, if you've experienced anything particular, feel free
• 45:21
  to comment Again, I said down below, if you're, you're
• 45:23
  listening to this on a platform that doesn't allow for comments,
• 45:26
  you can write into the podcast Midgard Musings, tn@gmail.com or
• 45:32
  call into the hotline. It's 615-671-9832.
• 45:38
  And yeah, and let me know what your thoughts are on it.
• 45:40
  I'd be anxious to hear. What you all think about it?
• 45:44
  So thank you all again for tuning back into.
• 45:47
  This week's episode of. The Random Heathen Ramblings
• 45:49
  podcast, if you enjoyed it, give it an upvote, share it around to
• 45:52
  whatever platforms you have access to, get the word going
• 45:55
  around on this. And until we talk to each other
• 45:58
  again, may the gods continue to notice you, and may your
• 46:02
  ancestors smile upon you. Thanks.
• 46:04
  We'll see you in the next one.