Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Judging Horror Stories - Why Treatment On Events Needs an Industry-Wide Overhaul! - Part 1

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Judging Horror Stories - Why Treatment On Events Needs an Industry-Wide Overhaul! - Part 1 · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: The life of a dance competition judge may seem glamorous from a distance, but the realities of this business can sometimes be shocking.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: For our final episode of season seven of Making the Impact, we explore real-life judging horror stories and bring up ways to overhaul the industry to make it more sustainable for the judges behind the table.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: Hello everyone, and welcome to the final episode on season seven of Making the Impact.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here like always with my co-host.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's me, it's Leslie.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: How are you, Courtney?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: I am so good and a little bit sad because the season is coming to an end.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and somehow we've gotten here.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: We've gotten here through many years of doing this.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: So congratulations to us.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, go us.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: We have been consistent since day one.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: I have to give us all the props.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: Even though our lives have changed so much since we started back in 2019, the world has changed so much since we started this podcast in 2019.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's wild.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And my sister was just telling me about a podcast, an unrelated podcast, not dance related, that she listens to sometimes.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Sometimes I can't even get through it because the quality is so bad.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I was just like, you know what?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Our nobody could say that about us.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: Our quality is very good.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have consistent release dates.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: We have consistent formats.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like you guys out there in Listener Land know what to expect with Making the Impact.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So we thank you for your continued support over the past seven seasons.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, let's give us our flowers.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Cause even non-dance people have recognized our quality of the podcast.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: Podcast Magazine ranked us a 4.5 out of five for our podcast experience.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that was like kind of early too.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: It was like season two.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: So like amazing.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we've been recognized that early on.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like, I think that pushed us and confirmed that like what we were doing was done well.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so many dance fans love listening to the podcast week after week.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: I get like parents coming up to me at events saying, like, oh, I've learned so much from your podcast.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like, keep it up.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: I I know you've met some fans in person too, Leslie.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, recently has been so nice.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've been out a little bit more.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm people, you know, have seen have seen me and see the good that we do and hear the good that we do.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's been really nice to to get a little bit more FaceTime with with these folks.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully that will happen a little bit more as we, you know, move forward.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I know this is our last episode of the season, but we do have a season seven wrap-up episode that you can give a listen to immediately following this one if you want to hear about what's to come for next year, what's happening this summer in Podcast LAN, and more updates for you.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: So give a listen post-episode.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But we are gonna jump into our episode shortly.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: We have a really good one for you guys today.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a doozy.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh it's a big conversation, might be a two-parter.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we will see, but you will see.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: You will find out and see.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: But before we jump in, we have some of our recent Making the Impact Award winners to announce on the pod.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: From True Dance Challenges event in Allentown, Pennsylvania, congrats to Dance World Academy from Clifton, New Jersey for their large group, Viola.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: From Greater Brockton Dance Teachers Association's event in Easton, Massachusetts, congrats to Starline Academy of the Performing Arts from Staughton, Massachusetts for their production rebirth.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: From Axis Dance Competitions event in Las Vegas, Nevada, congrats to the Dance Zoo from Bullhead City, Arizona for their small group playground.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: And from Decca Dance Competitions event in Sparta, New Jersey.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: Congrats to Passaic Dance Collective from Passaic, New Jersey for their small group ordinary.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: There will be some more Making the Impact Award winners announced in the following episode, so stay tuned to hear those as well.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And let's hear from our sponsors.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: A new dance season is here, and that means competition is coming up quick.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a great way to help you prep your performance before hitting the stage with IDA's online judges critique.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: One of our professional pre-screen judges will provide you with a video critique similar to what you receive a competition.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: But we also take our critiques one step further with our best-selling feature, our post-critique additional feedback.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Your IDA judge will go back through your dance and pause the video to elaborate even more on specific corrections and personalized requests.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And exciting news for choreographers our popular choreography console critiques are back in action this season.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Your specialty judge will focus on choreography specific feedback, covering everything from concept and costumes to transitions, style, and musicality.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_03: Enhance your creative vision and elevate your voice as a choreographer with guidance from a pro on technique, song choice, difficulty level, and so much more.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: Starting at just$35, IDA's online judges critiques are a great tool to utilize at any point in the dance season.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: And we are one of the only online critique services in the industry that offers genre-specific judges and rush 24 hour delivery turnaround times.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: Are you ready to take your dance to the next level?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: Click the link in our show notes or visit our website at Impact DanceAdjudicators.com slash online critiques to submit your dance today.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Danceworld, we are here for our final episode in season seven of Making the Impact.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna get real today.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna get real on the podcast today because we as judges love our job so so much, but I'm sure so many of you have no idea what's actually going on on the job of in the life of a judge.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: And we've done a few episodes of A Day in the Life of a Dance Competition Judge, but we're gonna actually get even more real this time around because there's some things that you probably have no idea happen when it comes to travel arrangements, roommate situations, lack of pay, overworked hours.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: The the conditions go on and on, and the treatment is surprisingly not getting better, unfortunately, in our industry.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot of judges out there who are passionate about this that want to openly talk about it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And we even polled our community to ask them to share their stories anonymously about some of their horror stories while being a dance competition judge.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's never about when we get there and are watching the dances because we do this because we love it and we can't wait to see y'all hit the stage.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all the other things in between that get in the way of allowing us to do our job to our fullest potential.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: And we think that it's finally time to reveal what goes on behind the scenes in dance competition land for our judges.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: And this is also part of the reason why I started Impact Dance Adjudicators.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: And many people know that I'm the owner of IDA.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: We have a roster of judges now that are around 150 judges around the country.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: We work with 15 plus IDA affiliated competitions.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this wasn't only a way for judges to be able to find more work with competitions or and for competitions to easily find pre-screened background check judges, but also to uh create our higher standards for for working conditions in the industry.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: All of the competitions that work with us have to meet our requirements to use our judges or with pay rates, with travel expectations, with per diems, or with so many perks that so many other comps are wouldn't even touch.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: And maybe that's why a lot of comps are choosing not to work with us because they don't want to invest in the quality and what it would take to actually get those qualified veteran judges to sit in those seats because they've been through so many horror stories uh in their time on the judging circuit.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: So that is also why IDA exists.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of our judges are really grateful to have the advocacy of IDA in their corner as they work through the competition world.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: But we have a few special guest IDA judges who are joining us today to chat about their thoughts on this in the biz, as well as anonymous statements from judges around the country to share their stories with us.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: So let's introduce our IDA judges who are joining us today on our final episode of season seven.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: The first up is a veteran IDA judge who has been there from the jump.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: We literally created IDA in his apartment, brainstorming and create created this in his apartment, which is so fun to talk about.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: And he's also a veteran podcast guest, so let's remind everybody how many episodes he's been on.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Season six, episode 210, winning versus losing 2.0.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Season three, episode 68, prop potential.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: Season three, episode 107, live QA from Spirit of Dance Award Nationals.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Season two, episode 42, age appropriateness at competition, and all the way back to season one, episode eight, boys in Dance.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: I am so happy to welcome back my dear friend, Mr.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: Rob Gibbs.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome, Rob.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Courtney.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Rob, I know you've been judging for so many years.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And when Leslie and I were trying to brainstorm who else can we have join us on this episode, I immediately thought of you, not only because you're my dear friend and have been at IDA for so long, since the jump in the very beginning, but also because you have had uh an extensive judging career pre-IDA.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: So you've judged for so many comps before IDA even existed, and then continue to judge 10 plus years later since the creation of IDA.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_03: So you've been doing this for a long time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have been around for quite some time, yes, is what is really the moral of that entire story.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I forgot about all those podcasts as well.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right, that's why I need to refresh.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that I'll ever forget like the boys' one, but like everything else along the way, I'm like, oh yeah, oh yeah, those are really great conversations.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Moral of the story.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I've been around for a while.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I've known Rob for a pretty long time too.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: We we met pre-IDA at a very, very long nationals one summer.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: A very long time ago.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it was circulating judges.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So sometimes we were sitting beside one another, and sometimes we were not even in the same room.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or I was choreographing the opening number and was, you know, a mile away in a fever dream.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's really what it felt like.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I left early from that nationals to go do my first nationals of that summer.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know those were the good old days, man.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just that was a lot of work.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Go, go, go.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: We did it.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: We we survived.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Did we were young?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: We've got some stories to tell about it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Rob, if you could quickly refresh everyone who's listening's memory, more about you.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my name's Rob Gibbs.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Identify as he, him.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: I uh live in New York City.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have only been back in New York City for one year.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I left for three years.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I moved to Massachusetts and taught um at a performing arts conservatory.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: But previously to that, I moved to New York City and lived here for 15 years as a student.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, graduated from the American Musical and Dramatic Academy of New York.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then immediately upon graduating, worked around the country in Canada, um, in regional shows, in dance companies, book musicals, review shows, off-Broadway musicals here in the city.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then now I'm back.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I am currently the operations manager for a company called Broadway Up Close Walking Tours, um, where we have walking tours of the theater district.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: We also have master classes based around the uh Broadway community where we curate masterclasses for these groups to come from all over the world, actually.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And typically we'll work with um an artist that is in a show that they're seeing and still judging dance competitions.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Leslie and I just got home in the middle of the night last night from uh working at a dance competition in New Jersey.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, I love it.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I know that you have some things that you can share through your time as a judge on this chat.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_03: So we're grateful to have you here.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: And thanks for joining us for the hundredth time on Making the Impact.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me back for the 100th time.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: All right, our next special guest is another IDA judge who has been on the roster for many years, and she is actually the one who wanted to talk about this on the pod.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really glad that she reached out to me mid-season and said, Hey, Court, this would be a really good podcast episode.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, you know what?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: The time has is finally here.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: The time is now, we're gonna make it happen.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and you of course have to be a guest on it.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Especially because not only is she a judge, but she is also a licensed therapist.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And she has joined us on the podcast previously wearing her mental health hat, but also judging hat.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: So we're on season six, episode 227, The Perfectionist Mindset in Dance, and season three, episode 89, winning or losing, which was our first winning versus losing episode, and Rob was on the 2.0 episode of that.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: So everybody go give a listen to those.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Those are great episodes.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thrilled to welcome back IDA Judge Britney Johnson.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me back again, and thank you for being willing to let us talk about this topic because it's important.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: It is important, and I'm really glad that you brought it to my attention.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's so cool about the podcast.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: We get pitches for ideas all the time.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: People are like, I really want to talk about this.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: Have you done this topic?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Can we make it happen?
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: And this time I was like, you know what?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: We can make it happen, and we're gonna make it the season seven finale.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: Brittany, it's been a minute since you've been on the pod.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Last season was the last time.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: So let's give everybody a little refresher since you've been here.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh grew up in the competitive dance world, training at a studio, um, and then got to be a part of the dance team world too, which I think when you're involved in all of it, you realize how different they kind of all are, even though it's all under the same dance umbrella.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I got to be a part of the dance competition sector, but then also the whole UVA national kind of thing experience in Orlando.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I just remember growing up kind of having the very, very different experiences like in the dance studio versus in the dance team world.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also kind of got to kind of dab into concert dance a little bit too, and my director started a company and I got to be a part of the dance company too.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of got all of those experiences younger, which I think just really kind of helped shape me into the educator that I am today.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I just continue to teach in the dance world and continue to choreograph for competitive dance and do master classes and workshops uh around the world with the dance community, not the world I want to want to get out of the United States.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: That would be cool.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Put it out there into existence.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm a licensed mental health professional.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have my own private practice.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I specialize in working with trauma, but then specialize in working with competitive athletes.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot of dancers on my caseload, other competitive athletes in different, different realms because it's it's important, right?
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like it doesn't matter if we're going to dance every day and we're hating it, or we hate ourselves, or we hate the way we look or we hate the outcome.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we have to love what we do.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: We do love what we do.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to be able to enjoy that and remember our why and be able to connect us back to our why.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really, really passionate about um helping people foster the healthiest and happiest relationship with dance.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have workshops that I travel around and work with studios and dance teams and universities and programs, just really helping them gain the mental skills that they need to protect that relationship.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm just super passionate.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's why I'm so passionate about this topic too.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I we need good judges and us good judges want to be out here and contributing to the dance community.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited for us to dig in here and talk about this.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: You need to start offering your services to judges because you know, like therapists.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I have a great therapist, but she had no idea about what the dance world was 10, 11, 12 years ago when I started seeing her.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, she does now.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: She does now.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: She got kids that dance too.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: So like she's just in it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it's it's it's a very unique space to to live in your whole life and to work in as an adult and to hold on to, like you said, that like you have to be able to hold on to that relationship with dance throughout your entire if you want to be in it your whole life.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it changes and it shifts, and you have to, you know, you have to really figure out how to hold your love for the thing at the same time as the issues that surround it.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's part of why this is this is a hard conversation, because so many of us love what we do and we hate the issues that surround what we do.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really hard to do your job and have your morals and your values aligned when you are surrounded by entities that have a different perspective.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I think your perspective is going to be super interesting to hear today as well.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we are so happy to have you guys.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And something I want to just mention really fast before we even jump into some of these hearing from different anonymous submissions about their experiences.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: We polled a lot of our IDA judges to share their experiences, but all of their anonymous submissions are from time spent outside of IDA.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to mention that that uh anything that I shared here is not an IDA affiliated competition, or possibly because we make sure that those treatment or um expectations have higher standards than many of the other competitions or the 200 plus competitions that exist in just the United States alone.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: So just wanted to throw that out there for all of our IDA comps that are listening.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: We're not talking about y'all.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_03: We love y'all and you support us and we support you.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of work to be done outside of what we have control in IDA land.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to start with just a general question for both of you.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think people think our days are like as judges?
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what do you think everybody like what's the glossy magazine cover?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're a dance competition judge.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: What do people think?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is it's the most fascinating response that I ever get from people, later even in the musical theater world that didn't grow up as a dance competition kid, and they're like, Well, you're gone every weekend.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't you just have so much fun?
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get to go and travel and see all of these amazing places and people, you know, these companies they pay for your food.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: They must take you out to all of these like glamorous restaurants, and you get to go and see shows in these places, and you're like, Where?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: What are you talking about?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you do get to travel to all these places, but it's not like I'm flying to Hawaii to like go, you know, stare at a waterfall for a weekend.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's so bizarre.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that and I, well, from my experience, that's what people think.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, you get to see all of these wonderful places.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I get to see the inside of either a high school, middle school theater, or a cafetorium.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or the inside of a convention room, the inside of a hotel where you probably don't leave that that building to go outside and get fresh air from Thursday night when you fly in or travel in until Sunday or Monday when you leave.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you just are looking at these walls, pumped oxygen in from God only knows where, and hoping that you survive till the end of it and don't sound like me with these insane allergies.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Or you have a voice by the end of it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's my experience.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I get sad when I am going somewhere super exciting because I'm like, oh, I'm like feet from like a beignet, but I can't have one.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you mean?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just because I'm going to New Orleans doesn't mean I'm getting to enjoy New Orleans.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I it's interesting.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's when when you ask that question, Leslie, like the first thing that popped up for me is all of the people that I feel like a lot of the first reactions that I get from people is like, oh, I could never do that.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do you do that?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: I do think there's like this recognition of the fact that like we sit at a table from like they know enough to know that that must be hard.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're right, I get that reaction a little too.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's the reaction that I get a lot.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like I always have to be like, oh, okay.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: So like there's some validation that you like recognize that like we are up there doing a tough job.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I think that I I don't know.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I hear from a lot of people that it's just like just like power, I guess, that we're like given this power as judges.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I just need everyone to understand that we are judges that work for whatever competition we are working for.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is no judges union that we get to like come back and meet on Monday and be like, well, how did that go?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, how did you come up with your scores?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or what rubric did you use the rubric?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there is no universal rubric.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I judge for one time, I have to judge completely.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Different for one competition than I do for another, than I do for another based on their rules or based on whatever.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's I I think sometimes people like give us a little bit more power than we even have.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we'll talk about the good and the bad in in that in the details, but like I don't know.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's I I think there's a lot of recognition that people know that like this is a very, very demanding job.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like I hear a lot from people like, I could never, I could never.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, and yeah, some of the most amazing choreographers and educators that I respect so deeply that I know have said that to me.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's it seems like it would be glamorous.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: It it, you know, and and could it be glamorous?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think it could.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think there is a world where it could be a glamorous job.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um we've gotten to the point now it's so it's not glamorous anymore.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: People who have maybe had glamorous experiences and then go to another competition and it's not so glamorous, and they're like, well, I ain't doing this anymore.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And all the people that really love this, but just can't deal with the conditions that are being offered are saying bye-bye to dance competition judging because it's just not worth it for them to sit in that metal chair for 15 hours and have to beg for a bathroom break because that's the reality of what is actually happening.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of and I think people, like you said, Britney, people in the audience are starting to realize, dang, that judge hasn't gotten up in five hours.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like people are starting to clock certain things and speaking about it, and then they start thinking, well, they better be getting paid a crap ton of money to be sitting there for five hours without eating or a bathroom break.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then in reality, that's also not happening.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then on Monday, there you're still hearing about, well, the judge said this, or the judge didn't say anything, or the judge, well, because I haven't peed in five hours, ma'am.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Of course I'm not having I didn't say anything because I'm just trying not to pee myself.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: Or like being told that you literally cannot go to the bathroom.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is a sad reality of our time sitting at the table and to feel stuck there is such a tough thing.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas like you can watch every other staff member, hey, can you can you take my headset for a second?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: I need to run to the bathroom.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like everyone else has that flexibility and we do not.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_03: We are literally strapped at that seat and we are working like everyone else is telling us what we can do and when we can do it for 15 hours straight.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I mean, I I want it to be glamorous though, you know?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and it's and it's interesting, you know.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when I first started getting hired as a judge.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I my reasoning for wanting to judge was that I didn't want to teach.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't have the the schedule to be able to commit to like a once-a-week, every day, every for the whole year.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: I was still auditioning.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, like this was a way for me to feel like I was still giving back and contributing to the dance world, you know, for the future, not for myself, but for the future.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it was such an honor.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the first couple of times I got hired, I was, I was like, oh my God, I'm I'm being validated.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody believes that I can do this.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: And it really did feel sort of special and important.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, and I look back at my early judging days, and I, you know, I was more active on Facebook back then, but like there was a picture every weekend.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was a post every weekend, and I was so proud to tell everybody that I had this honor of going to these events.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so when when you see those things, and I see them more often now from younger judges, you know, which sort of tracks, that's what people see.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: They see, I got to travel, here's my cute outfit, here's the cute backdrop, and especially with your TikToks and your Instagram videos now.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people do their cute little, here I am at the airport, here's my lunch, here's my Uber to the Ret, you know, whatever.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they see this beautiful thing and it looks like something else.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: And in reality, yeah, there are those things that happen and like it might have been a really lovely flight.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe you did get a cute, you know, little beverage on your on your nightly break, you know, before the next day or whatever.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you didn't start on Friday.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so like it can have these moments of feeling special, feeling important, feeling valued.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's the days like we're going to talk about now, where somebody has assigned you a red eye flight.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have to get into the hotel at eight o'clock in the morning, but you don't start till 3 p.m., but your room's not ready.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, like there's these situations that could have been avoided, and you then you could have felt kind of glamorous, but instead you're sitting in a lobby for seven hours with no sleep and nowhere to get ready, and you're expected to go beyond and look put together to be glamorous without any conditions to support the glamour.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: I completely agree with all that.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it can still be glamorous, but only from the well, not only, but one huge thing, there's still moments that like these kids come up to you and these parents come up to you and they make you feel so imperative in their lives and in their and what we're like changing to do.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always said this, and I probably have said this on the last nine 999 podcast that I recorded for IDA.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I will always try to be the dance competition judge that I wanted when I was a kid growing up.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: I it made such a huge difference.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, it's a little different now because, well, for one, those were cassette tapes back then.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you would like if they even were.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: You would just wait and wait and wait and hope that your teacher would like pull out the cassette tape player in your next solo rehearsal to sit and listen to it.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if it was like a bad judge, it was like we've talked about so many times, good, nice, point your feet, use your plie, all those things, you'd be like, Well, I guess I'll get them the next time.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's of course then there's judges that I strive to be now that are like so passionate and still care so much about the education of these kids and giving them tips and hints and you know, things of of what to do to be able to strengthen their energy and giving them exercises over my critiques to them.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's still like that to me is you know why I want to go sit in a chair for 16 hours a day.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: There's other things clearly that we're gonna talk about in this podcast, but like some of those things still are, and like to talk about what you're saying, Leslie, you felt so honored, you felt so privileged.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when I got hired from her first dance competition, and my mom was like, Wow, my son's made it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, traveling to Michigan to judge a dance competition.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, I've also been in an off-product musical here in New York City, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Starring as like a lead premier dancer.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's also those things.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're more proud of that, but mom likes the wow.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: My son is in Utah this weekend.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: At a high school auditorium.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like I look back at my first judging opportunity, and mine was I was a replacement and someone thought of me, and I just got thrown in.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: But then after I got that little bit of experience, then I was able to then use that as leverage to get hired by others.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember, oh my gosh, I think I got paid$150 a day, judging at 22 years old, and I had to fly in on like the cheapest flight in the morning on Friday.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_03: But then I also got picked up by the co-owner and I had to go pick up their kids with them, carpool with them to pick up their kids at school.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then I waited around at their house with them while they dropped the kids off.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then we went on our way to the competition and I didn't even get paid for that day.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: I went on a family carpool ride all around Ohio or something.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then I finally walked out of that weekend making$300 for three days of family adventures.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: And like I look back at that and I'm like, oh my gosh, I cannot be the only one that's done crazy stuff like that in my early years of judging.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't know any different.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was just grateful for the opportunity.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what everyone makes you believe.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: You need to be grateful.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: You're lucky that you got hired for this.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now, granted, I was 22 and inexperienced, so I kind of was grateful and lucky, but I also knew that it was kind of not really fair that I was getting taken advantage of and my time wasn't valued, and that that pay rate was way too low, and I should have said no.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes you don't know any different at 22, and you're just like, well, okay, if I get this on my resume, then I can get to better competitions.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's your thought in your head.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, let me take all these crappy jobs so I can grow my resume so then I can get the good ones.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: And like, did that work?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: I still look back at that and think, like, this is unacceptable that someone even offered that to me.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that shouldn't even be the the minimum.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: That just feels like a favor that you would ask a friend of a friend if you were in dire straits, like, hey, I'm really desperate.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: I need you.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Can you come do this for me?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is, you know, like that's not something you are like, here is this professional offer to anyone out there who's a professional.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like this, this is that's like a very quick little, you know, that's just not the same circumstance that you would offer to somebody in a professional capacity.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's wild.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that story.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's crazy.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that being said, let's talk about some of the things that we notice that are kind of common expectations or common offers generalized in the industry now, but are kind of like the bare minimum offers.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, there's things that are better for judges, but rooming conditions, flight, types of flights, or are do you get to pick your flight?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get to pick your airline?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get to pick what time you leave?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, do you have to share a room?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do you get to determine how many hours you want to work?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Do we even get to determine what event you get put on?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like all of these things.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Can we just like lay it out a little bit over it?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:39
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• 31:44
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• 31:50
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• 31:53
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• 32:04
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• 32:43
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• 32:50
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• 33:00
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• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And again, just kind of like me not knowing that I could like push back on that or like advocate for that.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe even being made to feel like if I were to advocate for that, like there goes my job.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like because there's someone else that they could just call who would be young or would be ready to just take that opportunity.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So like I had this like internal feeling of like, don't challenge that because then you won't be able to work this weekend, or they'll just kick you off your other weekends, or they won't welcome you back.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's like I consider myself to be a friendly person, outgoing person.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know, like I feel like I am, but like I don't need to hear, I don't need to be woken up by you, Rob, at 2 a.m.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: because you're snoring, or because your your dog had an emergency and someone needed to get a hold of you back home, or like I just we all deserve our own privacy.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and I don't know you.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how many times do I fly in for a weekend where you don't know the judges on the panel?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would I want to stay in the room?
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think I take it from more of an even like mental health perspective of like, you don't know what people have been through.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so asking people to like share a room with a complete stranger, number one, is just like a complete invasion of privacy.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like the lucky four to six hours that we get of privacy in our hotel room in between our competition days, like I need to be able to decompress how I want.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's me taking mushrooms and massaks off or talking to my husband on the phone, or you know, like calling my kids or doing yoga in the bedroom, like whatever it is.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I need to be able to decompress however I need to.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna decompress differently than all three of you on this podcast are gonna decompress.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And like it just doesn't make any sense.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and we we know, like educators, you know, studio directors, you know, parents, you know what you're being charged to compete at these competitions every weekend.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like to get every staff member their own hotel, uh I don't even think should be a question.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even think it should be something that we're still advocating for.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Can they get room blocks and discounts anyway?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: They have or they have like deals with every hotel, you know.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like it's even cheaper than the standard price we see online.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's interesting to me because I got lucky for whatever reason.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: My first my first few years, I worked half and half for people who had already back then, you know, in the early 2010s-ish, they were already giving a single room.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: And now they weren't paying so well, but you had a single room.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then there were some comps that you had to double up in.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_02: So like I felt good about the single rooms and like meh about the double occupancy at that point because I did I you couldn't tell what was the standard.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And same, Brittany, you know, I didn't have that, I didn't feel confident to advocate for that choice.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: But like I had situations where I was, you know, rooming with somebody who snored and I currently now snore.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, I can't, I cannot do that to somebody who I don't even know.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's bad enough my husband has to sleep with that.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like I feel bad about it, you know, but like I don't want to do that to somebody else.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I also am just when I'm in a room with somebody else, even if it's somebody that I know, like Courtney and I, you know, lived together for six months on a cruise ship.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: So like we know how to sleep in a room with somebody else.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: You're just so aware of that other human being.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, like once I'm done with a night, I probably, even when I'm by myself, even when I have the ideal circumstances, I still don't fall asleep for about an hour and a half, two hours after I lay down because all I'm hearing is if I was you, I wanna be point your feet and a shuffle ball change.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'll that's just going in my head.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: So like I can't, I'm critiquing the sounds of the air conditioner vent.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like I can't get to sleep.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: So then there's another person in the room having their own, you know, personal circumstance.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, forget about it.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then when you change that all night and you're trying to go to sleep.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, or they want it to be really hot, or I want it to be really cold.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, those those circumstances, it's really interesting.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, you we all know what these fees are.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, that hotel is not$300 a night.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, nobody's putting us in a in a massively expensive hotel.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_03: At the crappiest hotel most of the time, anyway.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, you couldn't even get me a Hampton In practically.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: You're putting me in like a two-star hotel, which now at IDA we have three-star hire that is in our contract for anybody listening.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: Three-star hire.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there have been times where we have to step in and say, I'm sorry, this doesn't meet our standards.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't the type of hotel chain that you like.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: If I look online and it says that it's$85 a night, I'm sorry, but we need to be at an$110,$125,$150 hotel a night.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, that sounds bougie, but I don't think it is because I don't want to get bed bugs.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: And judges have gotten bed bugs plenty of times based on the multiple bed bug stories in receiving stories about this podcast.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: So yes, the bed bugs are real.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's been multiple times where the competition that I've been working has been in a convention center with a hotel, and we have had to stay at a different hotel.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well yes, the whole because the hotel was too expensive.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: That we are in was too expensive.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we as judges were staying at a hotel that was 10 minutes away and we had to drive.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why couldn't I just stay upstairs?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like that makes no sense, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: I it's my partner did the same thing as that maybe like three years ago, and they stayed at a different hotel down the block and found out afterwards it wasn't because they're it was too expensive, it was because the competition would get a like a bounce back from the hotel.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they made sure that all of their customers got rooms at the hotel instead.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So the like either it was like more of a discount for their rooms or they literally got like a cashback or something.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so the judges, the judges had to stay, it was only a walk, but it was like down the street.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, I think it was my first competition ever.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had to room with someone else, and we knew each other and had worked together on a contract years prior, and we did not get along on that contract, and it was just by chance that we ended up at the same or like working for the same competition, and it was miserable.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was miserable because it was two personalities that should never probably ever be at the same party together, let alone have to share a hotel room in the middle of Kansas.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we did, and it was like you know, so someone has to shower first in the morning.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're fighting about that, and then yes, I think Leslie said the temperature in the room, it's always gonna be terrible.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, like I myself can't ever even find a comfortable temperature in a hotel room.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: This past weekend, I got up in the middle of the night to turn the air conditioner up because I was cold, or you know, or like whatever.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Another horror story, if I can throw in, it was the the I think the second season I was judging.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it didn't happen to me, but we weren't sharing rooms at that time with this competition, but the year prior they had, and one of the judges, as we were driving to the venue, said that the year before they had to share a room with another judge, and this judge had no personal boundaries and thought it was appropriate to trim their toe on like in the living area, but with her with their foot on that person's bed.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_04: What?
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: Oh good.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know, usually hotel rooms, if it's two queens, they're not that far apart.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: So they were like put over the thing and like trim, trim, trim, trim, trim, and going to work with that person the next day.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: And being completely revolted by them in general.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're supposed to like your brain isn't able to focus on your job because you're so angry that some roommate random person was clipping their toenails next to you and you're disgusted by it.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like that's that shouldn't, there shouldn't be anything to get in the way of us being able to do our job mentally speaking.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I know, Brittany, like you could even probably speak on that because I know I've walked into many, many days, like weekends, frustrated before I even got there because of my travel, the flight they booked me on.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: I had to sit in the middle seat.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: I was fending for myself.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I had, if there were any issues with the airline, I just had to figure it out.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck, get there.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: They're not covering my Uber to the airport.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_03: They're not covering my meals in the airport.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm whole, I'm running from one side of the airport to the other to barely make my connection because they had to book me on this early flight because it was cheaper than the flight that would have made sense.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't even get asked what flight I wanted to be booked on.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so there's like all of those travel logistical nightmares that we deal with before we even get there that then put me in a mood.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: And then I gotta try to shake the mood off when I sit down in the chair, and it's hard to do that sometimes.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: Someone said earlier, I don't remember who it was, said that whether you got to pick where you went or not.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like, sure, you can tell someone that that's that is where you want to go, but a lot of competitions or you know, a lot of bigger competitions will have three cities, and you're like, well, I'd really love to go here because it's closer and proximity.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: And almost always by that chance, you then get the one that's you know in Seattle on the opposite side of the country.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was gonna say, like, another I guess I'm full of horror stories, I didn't even realize.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: A while ago, I was flying to a nationals, which then you're set up for a week of working rather than just a weekend.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I had had an accident the day before where I was having like these terrible muscle spasms in my back, but I was medicated or whatever.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: We get to the airport to fly to this nationals, and our flight was delayed more than seven hours.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: The company would not like pay to Uber us back home because you know, they were like, Well, what if the flight gets moved up?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then we flew to the Nationals, we get to the hotel, we had forty-five minutes to sleep before we then had to shower to go back down.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: We asked if there were any swing judges that could swing in for us so that we could maybe like start at noon rather than at seven forty-five in the morning.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And they said no.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: We literally we got there with our luggage, we were going.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Up the elevator as the director was coming down to start their day.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_03: For their day.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: That was one of the hardest experiences ever.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, I know where I stand.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's what's interesting to me is we will continue to talk through, I know we're calling them horror stories, but like circumstances is what they are.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: As we continue to talk through these circumstances, I don't think you're gonna hear us talk about or complain about, if you will, like anything that is just, I don't know, over over the top.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're asking for basic human needs.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yes right?
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're not asking, I'm not, I don't have these unrealistic expectations.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of brings me back to Leslie, what you when you were asking about what people think.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I do think sometimes people think that we are asking for like above and beyond treatment.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't, I don't think that we are.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're asking to be able to sleep, we're asking to be able to eat meals, we're asking to be able to work reasonable hours that don't exhaust us.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're asking to be able to have privacy to be able to wind down.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're we're asking for things that fuel the human body, which allow us to show up and do a good job.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately, like this is this is, I guess, my pitch to like studio owners and dance parents.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you are paying for a service.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are paying, you are paying these competitions and you are paying for a service.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I I genuinely don't, I'm not gonna say always, but the majority of the time, I have not been on a judging panel with people who are not inherently at their core, excited to do the job that they're there to do.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think judges, for the most part, have beautiful intentions.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: We want to show up and we want to inspire and we wanna champion kids and we wanna help them feel good about what they're doing.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm and I know that's why I'm there.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't met a single judge in my almost 10 years of judging now that, like, yeah, I judge for a living.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I haven't met a single person that's been able to make a full-time living off of just being a competitive dance judge.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if anybody, if you're out there, let me know.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've I've never met anybody, right?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of us have to come home from these weekends and go to work, right?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all have jobs outside of here, one job, two jobs, four jobs, seven jobs.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like we all have jobs outside of this job.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: We do it because we genuinely love it.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: We're just asking to be able to be treated the way we need to be treated to show up to do the best job that we can do.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because the real part of the conversation is that if I am running on four hours of sleep the night before, I am showing up with a four-hour of sleep ability to learn.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I I would love to sit here and tell you that every single weekend I show up and I'm like, nope, it doesn't matter.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I show up to the table with my Red Bull and I'm good to go.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to tell you that that's a reality, but I know that there's been times that my critiques are not as strong at this point throughout the day or not as strong because I didn't sleep as well the night before.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: That is a reality.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the judge would be lying to you if they said that it wasn't.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because we're all human at the end of the day.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I um I don't know, like we I I meet people who just genuinely want to do a good job.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: We want to be here for these kids.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: We want to inspire them, we want to help them, we want to give them with good, solid quality critiques.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when I hop on Dance Teacher Network on Monday morning and there's 14 people complaining about their critiques from the weekend, the first thing that I want to comment is like, so did you ask the director how your judges were taken care of this weekend?
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ask the competition how the money was distributed amongst their workers for this weekend?
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're not asking the right questions.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: What we're doing is just pointing out the problems, but we're not, we're not addressing what the actual problem is.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because I promise you that I would judge differently if I got a solid eight hours of sleep versus two and a half in an airport chair with my head like this because I'm waiting for through my delay or whatever that is.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: No, yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's those are solid points.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Ask the questions.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean anyone's ever asked those questions.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Let's be real.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hell no, excuse me.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know I've been wanting to get I wouldn't have been wanting to cuss on this episode too.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm getting heated.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's like about to come out.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, I think you you make a really good point that like I think I I too have not met anybody who doesn't genuinely want to be helpful and show up and do this job.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, it's a paycheck.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_02: And you, you know, depending on who you are and your circumstances, it's either a bomb paycheck or it's kind of it's like, okay, this is what I can do.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's a paycheck.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also, it's I could go get a paycheck in a lot of places.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: I could go work as a greeter at Walmart and do less work with my brain.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: But like this takes a lot of brain power and a lot of mental capacity.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you don't have that available to you if you didn't get eight hours of sleep or a decent lunch break or, you know, a relaxing moment.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: Just a moment.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need, I don't need a whole day.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: I just need a moment.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and a reality of that, Leslie, is a lot of the a lot of people on these judging panels are dance educators themselves.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And a majority of the time I could stay home a weekend and make more doing private lessons Friday, Saturday, and Sunday than I could making at the judging panel.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the reality.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm here to say it.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, it's not, it's we don't do these because we're we're getting paid millions and millions, like thousands, even.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not, that's not what's happening.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're doing it because we're passionate about it.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just I it it it's all it's all connected.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like you deserve to get from the competition what you're investing in.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you are investing for good quality critiques.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: But in order for that to happen, there has to be a push from the top down on how to make that happen.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's not just a responsibility of the three people sitting on that panel.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because we get the blame all the time.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Everything falls on us.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: Every score, every bad critique, every placement, everything is the judge's fault in the eyes of everyone else at a competition.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I honestly think that sometimes these competit competition directors are gonna point fingers at us, you know, because they don't want to handle it either.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: They don't want to deal with it.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: They're just trying to make their customers happy.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: We're just a 1099 that is completely irreplaceable to them.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: They don't care.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: If if you got complaints, then I'm gonna point my finger at you and I'm gonna say bye-bye to that judge and find somebody else that's gonna come and sit in that seat.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's become to me, I've noticed more of a seat filler than actually caring about quality judges behind the table.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: Or and I think the industry and our the customers are slowly seeing that.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: Or but again, it goes back to, like you said, Brittany, starting from the top and treatment.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_03: Truly, I'm letting you know the treatment is what is taking judges out, the quality judges all out of those seats.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: And if anyone speaks up, like we said, then we're gonna be reprimanded, we're gonna be potentially fired or for speaking up, for advocating for ourselves or for asking for better conditions.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_03: And some people are like, this ain't worth my time and energy.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you kidding me?
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna sit at home and I'm gonna do privates, like you said.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: So for for there to be change, we need to have these types of conversations.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: And we have to know, like, know our worth, knowing that again, we're not asking for first class tickets or five-star hotel dinner.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: That is not what any judge is asking for.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: But and and let's be real, I bet you there are some that do.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, I know exactly who's asking for that.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I know there's probably some way to get it.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it just depends on who it is sitting behind the table.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: But either way, we're just asking for a bare minimum.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_03: And there are some really wild stories out there.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm ready with some treatment stories.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'd love to share.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have we had a bunch of judges submit anonymously, and we have a few gems that we want to share um right now about treatment on the event.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, shall I, Courtney?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go for whichever one you want.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: We can uh we can talk about them too.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: So a competition decided part way through the morning that they wanted to push lunch back because there were a lot of last minute auditions.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: And because of that, the day would be a 17-hour day.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know that I've ever had a 17-hour day, but that sounds horrible.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen it.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've totaled them.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: This judge was not provided with lunch until 2 30 p.m., making their first meal break eight hours since breakfast.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: When I tried to discuss options earlier in the day, I was made to look like the bad guy.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Most corporate jobs only last eight hours, and a meal break at a decent hour is guaranteed.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: Our dinner didn't happen until after eight.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Those kinds of days make judging miserable.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: Woof.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: That Britney said earlier, like we're not part of a union, but like those are labor laws.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is an issue of like in New York State, I have I have a multitude of employees at my job that I send on a break, a 15-minute break within a a a time minute, uh I mean with a within a time span.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if they go over six hours, then you're required to take an unpaid 30-minute break.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: If it goes over seven and a half, you have to take a you know, an hour break.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are actual labor laws.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: If someone were to ever bring that up to an auditor, this company would be fine.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: This company could lose the the right to be able to have 1099 contracts.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like these aren't these are not logistics that should ever be overlooked.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also, as everyone said on this podcast already, why do you expect to have quality anything if you have literally sat for eight hours without anybody providing you a meal?
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Heaven hopes that they at least got a bathroom break somewhere in there.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know this person.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like hard to say.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: That is wild.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is ludicrous.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: That is actually unfortunate.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: And what they said about being made to look like the bad guy.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: I've had this experience multiple times where you ask a question that sounds reasonable, that is reasonable.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, where's the staff room?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's no staff room.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, where where would you like us to go?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: We have 30 minutes.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: We were here at call time and we have 30 minutes until we start.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_02: Where would you like us to go?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you can just sit at the table.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: So you want us, the judges, the people who are going to be scrutinized the entire weekend, to just sit at the table with the music blaring, with the lights going for my 30 minutes before we work.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's nowhere for me to be.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm going to go.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then look at you like you were a crazy person for asking for a dedicated space to then not be accosted by people who think you are the director or think you are a staff member.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I we've all had that experience where somebody, some parent, some director, hey, can you help me?
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, of course I'm gonna try to help you, but I don't have the answers you need.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a 1099 employee who shows up today to do my job and go home.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't help you.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Or the staff room is shared with studios.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've worked on that before many, many years ago.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I also heard a story once of like the the competition was like providing or you know, it was like ordering food or coffee or something for the judges, but it because it was a shared space with other studio directors, studio owners, maybe even like a studio specifically, all of their food and coffee got taken.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh these judges were just like hanging out with nothing to eat, even though they had done all of their stuff and had put in their order or whatever.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then we also just talk about the majority of the time you don't get to choose your food.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: You you are so I worked an eight-hour shift, and then I walked into the staff room and it was subs, and the subs have it's a turkey sub with lettuce and tomato and mayonnaise, and I I'm sorry, but I don't like mayonnaise.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I know I can pick lettuce off a sandwich.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I it's really hard.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you've ever tried, it's really hard to scrub mayonnaise off of a sub and then try to enjoy it without mayonnaise.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, but you shouldn't have to do that.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I shouldn't have to, right?
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then I will tell you, as a younger judge, I felt so silly because they always ask on the sheet.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not always, they're starting to get better at that, but they used to not ask if you had allergies for maybe for food sanitary or anything.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't care.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: That I think I've seen that kind of get better change a little bit.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So to be better.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm someone who's like, well, I'm not allergic to mayonnaise, so I can't click that it's an allergy, but like there's no box for me to be like, hey, sorry, I'm just like a picky eater and I eat like a kid sometimes, and I don't like mayonnaise, and I just would love like just a plain damn sales with nothing on it.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there is no box for me to fill that out, and they're not gonna call whatever sub company and be like, make sure you make one sub with nothing on it.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just order the catering special whatever and bring it in.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine being that judge who sat at the table for eight hours, didn't get to eat, and then went back in the room.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: You guys, there was one time I'm not gonna mention the company because I don't really know rights or whatever, but there's a company out here that offers baked potatoes on their menu, and it's a large baked potato, like it's not just a little baked potato, it's a it's a it's a spud, if you will.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that was my dinner once for a competition was a spud.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a baked potato.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like, this ain't it.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: This ain't no.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: We have another judge who said the same thing.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about the baked potato.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like what a specific situation.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it really is, and that's what I'm saying.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we don't even get to choose our meals, and I think Courtney, you said something about it earlier about just like what the freedom of choice does for people, right?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even sitting at a table knowing that you're trapped.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I say this in my workshop with students all the time like, hey, like guys, how do you think I did as a judge today if I was like having real life tummy issues?
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we all know what it's like to have tummy issues.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you want to be as close to a potty as you can all day long, just in case something's happening.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that does happen in the judging world sometimes.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so you're gonna take as many tums as you can and cross your fingers with hope that it were.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because you can't get up and go to the bathroom every day.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: But then somebody serves you chili that you didn't and then you get chili.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: Your dinner is chili, and you're like, what am I supposed to do here?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: What if I want to ask you or pizza or greasy pizza?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have worked for or I've worked for a company years ago, and like the last meal every weekend was always just two large cheese pizzas.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_04: No questions asked.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: No questions asked, no salad.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: If any, no, just like it was cold.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure it was cold.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Cold and take a slice.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: We had been there for two hours before we ever even got the break because their staff.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna say maybe it was available.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: It probably wasn't though.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there was half of the pizza left by the time you got to it because the truck driver had to eat, the backstage manager had to eat, the MC had to eat, like all these other people have to eat, and nobody orders enough food for everyone to eat.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's part of the reality as well.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_02: Pizza's easy.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_03: Pizza's cheap, I get it.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_03: But again, like uh being able to everybody is different, everybody's stomach is different, everyone is gonna be in a mood to eat certain things each day.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_03: So we should be able to select what I want to eat, even if it is gonna be catered.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_03: There needs to be multiple options of catered pro catering provided for each meal.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: That way you can pick and choose what you want.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to always eat pasta.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I want to eat salad.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's Courtney, I wouldn't invite the four of you over on Super Bowl Sunday without making sure that there was something at my house that you guys enjoyed.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would be reaching out to all three of you separately, being like, Do you like buffalo chicken dip and nautches and wings and meatballs?
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right, that's what I'm offering.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you don't like any of those things?
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'll make sure I have a cob salad or whatever you need.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I wouldn't invite you over to my home for a party without making sure that there was something that you could enjoy.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is our job.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're working.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: We're working.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, again, none of us are sitting here saying, I'm expecting a ribeye a month.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: No, expecting something that we know that we will like so we can fuel our bodies and continue to do our job.
• 59:57
  unknown: No.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: And to have, you know, the ability to know what it is ahead of time.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like I am currently trying to lose some weight.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: I would like to know what I can eat at noon that's going to fuel me until dinner.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to switch those things?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's a salad earlier, maybe it's a bigger dinner later.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_02: I just I need all this information to make good choices for myself.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many times where the that choice is just not available to you.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: And you're having to kind of struggle in the moment to do what you need to do.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, I just think my biggest thing with the food is these days, now listen, 15 years ago, we did not have DoorDash.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: Things were things were much different.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of these competitions are not in the greater New York City area, the Chicago.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're in small outskirts of the town.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_02: So like your Sunday, your Sunday lunch might be a little crap because there's not a restaurant open early enough to place the order to get it to you when your lunch break is.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been a director, logistics are a little bit of a nightmare, even with DoorDash sometimes, depending on where you are.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: However, you can schedule these DoorDash orders prior to the event.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: You can send out this list on Wednesday to everyone.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like I did it.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: It worked better when you did things earlier.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's just planning.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like if you don't have the staff to do that, to pre-plan these things, maybe you should invest in the staff to do that.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because doing it the day of is not the move.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: Thinking, oh, we're just gonna get the pizza from this place.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, that place is closed.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like all of these things are completely avoidable.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I just think that nobody is thinking of them.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: And you I have to wonder like why.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because every single every other day we hear of a new competition opening and like they're gonna change the game.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, you can't even, you don't like you are essentially like an event manager.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it doesn't matter how good of a dancer you are, it doesn't matter how good of a studio owner you are.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: You are now running a high-scale large event.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_03: You are an event producer.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_03: You have to know how those logistics work on a different way, not just making a recital happen.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many more people.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's the responsibility of having employees.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's the responsibility of having employees.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: I own my own business.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason why I don't hire employees.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have to manage their employees.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have to get them.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have to take money out of my business because my business isn't at the point right now where I can support employees the way that I would want to.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know I have that awareness, right?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what you're saying, Courtney, right?
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is one thing to run a competition and make sure we throw out, we make sure we have Frisbee to throw out because that's important.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's also important to feed your staff, right?
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's also important to make sure, you know, your staff have whatever they need.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: And and I don't, I don't want to get stuck on the food.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: I want to go back to something about that horror story that you mentioned, Leslie.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's not forget that a lot of these competitions we're paid just a daily rate.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: We are not paid all the time by our hourly rate.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that that judge may have gotten a notice that morning, hey, we're gonna extend this competition by two and a half hours.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_01: My pay doesn't change because they extended it two and a half hours.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was supposed to be off at eight o'clock tonight.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm not off till ten.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting paid the same no matter what.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_01: How did that make sense?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and that happens a lot.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why IDA has daily minimums.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: And we also have restrictions in our contracts that state if you have been booked on an event that was labeled as a three-day and let next thing you know, a whole studio pulls out, and now it's all of a sudden a one day.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: Or the competition has to inform us and the judges within a certain amount of time before the start of the event, or or there is a penalty fee and cancellation fee that goes to the judges or who have been holding that entire weekend and having the expectation that they're going to make three-day pay and now all of a sudden are making one day pay.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: So there is protections there to help the judges pending when they tell them if they give enough notice, okay, we get it, we'll figure it out.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: But we have to also think about the lives of the people behind the table that have lives outside of just this competition weekend.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_03: Or if there are plenty that need a schedule daycare, or if they need to take off of work on Friday and take a vacation day, or if they thought they were coming home on Monday, they also had to schedule daycare, or whatever it is, or cancel work that day.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like no one's putting that into consideration.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_03: They just think that we are completely willing to just sacrifice all of our time and cater strictly to them because I gave you the weekend.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: But there's no consideration of well, I'm losing pay now.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm and I could have worked on Friday, but I already took off a vacation day to make this happen for you.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: And now you're still not even paying me for for Friday?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like what it was 2011 and you were just out of a musical theater conservatory and you were relying on this three-day weekend paycheck to pay your rent.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and then you're you're like, Well, I guess I'm getting evicted this week because it matters, you know.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've committed and now I'm kind of stuck and I don't want to burn that bridge.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_02: So but I have to accept this now sad one-day pay and somehow in this next five days make up that three, four, five hundred dollars, whatever it might have been, somehow.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: And with my probably and I probably turned down other gigs or other opportunities to accept that weekend with that competition because you, I mean, there's competitions that I knew my competition dates, where are we in May?
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: In in November.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I had to commit to you in November for a May weekend date, and then you change that or cancel that.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've already put that into my budget, I've already figured that out, and I've already told four other opportunities no.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or there were six people who wanted to do private lessons with me this Saturday that I said, no, I'm sorry, I'm not available.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: And when in reality, if I would have stayed home and done those private lessons, oh, cool, I could have paid my rent.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that would have been more consistent, and there wouldn't have been the risk of cancellation or risk of being pulled off of it, or the fact that let's say if an event does decrease, they ain't changing that flight because it's gonna cost them money to change that flight.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: So they still think that you're supposed to get On that flight at nine in the morning on Friday, like you were originally scheduled when you don't even work until 8 a.m.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_03: on Saturday.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: And you're still supposed to wait around until Sunday night to fly home, even though you've been done work since Saturday.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like those little things that we have to ask for, that should be a no-brainer.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: It should be a I'm so sorry that this shifted.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna compensate you this for the miscommunication and for the inconvenience for you.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for saving this time in your schedule.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_03: We're also going to adjust your flight and we're gonna give you a little bonus pay for this.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like none of that is ever happening.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_03: We're just supposed to just say, Oh, okay, I guess this is the cards I were I was dealt.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no protections for us as judges.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's and if we advocate, then we are the problem.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: We are we well, and so many people say something like, Well, that's just the cost of doing this job.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's just what comes with the territory of doing this job.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't have to.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe it maybe it is.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_02: But there are other choices the people in charge could make.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: And you know what it comes down to is unfortunately the way it seems.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, y'all, y'all out there who are the people in charge, you could come back at me and correct me if I'm wrong.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: But to me, it seems like the bottom line is all that matters.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: I need to save the dollar wherever it c wherever I can.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: And s for some reason, it's the people where they want to save the dollar.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: They want to save the dollar on the people, not the backdrop, not the LED lights, not the video, not the TVs that show everything.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like they're they're not pinching pennies, they're gonna pinch pennies on the human beings, which is backwards to me.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's you know, I'm always baffled when when these situations happen, and I'm like, what other choice could you have made?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: And there's like a list of other choices they could have made.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: Totally.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like you were really stuck in between a rock and a hard place.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's a hard place, but it's a hard place that you as an owner also have to navigate.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you putting the onus on your employees, your your people who pop in and out?
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_02: You're the one who does this for a living full-time 365.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_02: You're the one that has to accept the hard place.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_02: We we should not be the people accepting the hard place.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's a wrap on part one of our final episode in season seven, all about judging horror stories.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: But don't worry, there is so much more to this combo that you do not want to miss.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: Part two of this episode will be releasing end of June or early July as a summer bonus episode.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_03: Mark your calendars and tune in then to hear the rest of this important conversation.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: In the meantime, don't forget to follow our fabulous IDA judges and special guests.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can follow Rob on Instagram at rob.gibs and Brittany at being underscore Brittany.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_03: Also check out Britney's mental health therapy practice, Empowered Movement, specializing in treating dancers, competitive athletes, and individuals healing from trauma.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: To learn more about their virtual counseling or in-person workshops, visit their website at empoweredmbt.com.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:09:01
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• 1:09:07
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• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_02: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_02: Tune in to our season seven wrap-up episode right after this.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you to all of the fans who continue to support Making the Impact through seven seasons.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're so sad this one's coming to a close, but don't worry, season eight is right around the corner.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: Mark your calendars for Thursday, September 3rd, 2026 for the launch of season eight of Making the Impact.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_03: Until then, we hope you have a wonderful dance filled summer.