Latest / To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast / Why Smart People STILL Reject Bitcoin | Brett Hansen (Bcuz)

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Why Smart People STILL Reject Bitcoin | Brett Hansen (Bcuz) · To The Moon With The Luna's Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_03: I think about like graduating college, right?
0:01
SPEAKER_03: I was never more empty than when I graduated college.
0:04
SPEAKER_03: I completed the thing, I got the goal, I had the title, I was that guy.
0:09
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
0:10
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't that guy because it wasn't aligned with who I was.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:15
SPEAKER_01: And that is so good.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: A lot of us do that.
0:17
SPEAKER_03: Like we chase the title or the monetary benefits, and we think it's gonna be this thing, right?
0:23
SPEAKER_03: And it's gonna give us so much joy and provide all this safety and everything for our families, which is awesome.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: And we all want that.
0:33
SPEAKER_03: But like if you're not at peace with yourself, what's it friggin' matter?
0:38
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, you're not gonna come home and be a good dad if you're mad at your job all the time.
0:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah like you know, it's you're not gonna be present when you're thinking about your work all the time.
0:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're not gonna be where your feet are.
0:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: All right, well, welcome back to To the Moon with the Lunas podcast.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: So excited for today's episode.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh Bitcoin price sitting around 79K.
1:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh today we're joined by Brett Hanson, author of The Belief Machine and Bitcoin, not crypto.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Brett has a background in structural engineering and has spent years studying Bitcoin, psychology, and the systems that shape human behavior.
1:19
SPEAKER_02: He's also the founder of FUGEM, a brand centered around choosing clarity over reaction.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: I can't wait to dive into your book.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Fugum, all of this.
1:28
SPEAKER_02: I don't know why it's fun saying that.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but Brett, welcome to the show.
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me on.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
1:36
SPEAKER_02: We are pumped up about this.
1:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I know we got to move some things around, but hey, we made it.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Um before we start some things off, I want to ask you, what's up with Because?
1:47
SPEAKER_02: What is this name?
1:48
SPEAKER_02: Where did it come from?
1:49
SPEAKER_02: Or you just always kind of liked it?
1:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh I started off uh Bitcoin cousin, and I it was just like uh, hey, I'm your cousin.
1:58
SPEAKER_03: Like I like I'm family, man.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: Like you can talk to me, like no judgments coming from me.
2:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm just like I'm your cousin, you can talk, talk about, and then you know, talk about stuff um about Bitcoin with.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: And then it turned into I just shortened it down like because, like because 21, 21 million, because 21 million, basically.
2:20
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it was just shorter, shorter to type in.
2:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, it it evolved, you know.
2:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm like we're all evolving.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, truly.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: And I love I I I feel like your I mean your mindset is all about reasons why we do things, right?
2:37
SPEAKER_00: The whole psychology of things.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: So it kind of correlates in so many ways to what you're already representing.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, how did structural engineering and like all of that end up getting you down the rabbit hole of of Bitcoin?
2:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, I would say they're not necessarily correlated, but um, it just from uh like a systems perspective and stuff, um and and under just so the way I got into Bitcoin, um, I heard about it when I was in college actually, and my poker buddy, he was mining it off GPUs.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: This was back in 2012, and he was buying it, buying stuff off Silk Road.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: And so my whole mindset was like, this is like drug, this is the way to skirt the system, right?
3:26
SPEAKER_03: Like this is this is the way to get stuff off the internet and no one knows about it.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: So I ignored it until, you know, whatever, 2020, COVID, right?
3:35
SPEAKER_03: We all had a bunch of time.
3:37
SPEAKER_03: And um, I had transitioned from structural engineering because I wasn't an office guy, um, to more like inspector and field management and field engineering, right?
3:48
SPEAKER_03: Like I like being out there with the crews um and watching stuff get built in three three dimensions instead of drawing it out or you know, approving drawings in two dimensions.
4:00
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, it's just more exciting for me.
4:02
SPEAKER_03: And then um had a lot of time just in job trailers and whatever, like everyone I won't say everyone, but I saw a number go up and I saw a way to change my life.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: And I started started studying it, and it really became about property rights for me.
4:21
SPEAKER_03: And stopped being about like number go up, like very early, even before I ever bought it.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: I was like, this is actually something I can like own and just kind of like understanding ownership, and then everything, you know, went down.
4:36
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh my gosh.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: And I thought about all the times in my life where I just never jumped in with both feet.
4:43
SPEAKER_03: I just said, Oh man, that was a good, that's that would have that's a good idea.
4:47
SPEAKER_03: I think about like lithium mine, like in high school.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh, I should invest in lithium mines, like batteries are the future.
4:52
SPEAKER_03: Like, if I would have done that, I'd you know, I'd be doing all right.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but like, you know, so like I just saw this as like one of those other things, like, okay, the future is definitely gonna be more digital.
5:06
SPEAKER_03: This solves the double spend, or like um anything that's digital can be copied.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: Like this completely solves that.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: And then like this is sound money for a digital age.
5:19
SPEAKER_03: And I just kind of like, and then it like the price dropped, and I was like, oh my gosh, like, yeah, let's go.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah, that's you know, and then you know, all the other things start coming too, you know, the mining and the nodes, and you know, you just kind of pick your way at it as you become more interested.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: Dude, that's amazing, that is incredible.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and just being able to pivot too.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: I think um, like you shared, like, you know, switching jobs or even even going back to 2020 where you're like, okay, well, let me take a deep dive into it.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: It's so easy to gloss over it when you already said no to something a long time ago, right?
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Or you saw your friend, you're like, eight years, you know, I don't know where your friend's at now, but um, just looking at the way the time passes by and how we everything just comes full circle.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Now you're like, okay, cool, like let me deep dive into this.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: And I think Bitcoiners have like this mind of just being curious.
6:08
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of people need that because they're so like just like locked in, right?
6:14
SPEAKER_02: Um, but with your book, um, I know your book asks like, why do we believe what we believe?
6:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, this is a deep psychology question, and it can go many ways, and I'm super excited.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, why this question?
6:27
SPEAKER_02: And where are you going?
6:28
SPEAKER_02: Where are you going with this?
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: Um, it really started off with the idea of why why do people ignore Bitcoin?
6:37
SPEAKER_03: Like, to begin with, right?
6:38
SPEAKER_03: Like, like by all measures, like really intelligent people and successful people just ignore this thing and write it off.
6:47
SPEAKER_03: And I think, like, to be honest, it's like the the pivot you just talked about is like sometimes people like generate these conclusions and consider it like solved, right?
6:59
SPEAKER_03: Like and they never come back to it.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, you can call that a belief or or you know, whatever we want to, you know, language has meaning and it goes through our filters in our brain, and like we all have a different interpretation of it.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: But like, I think our brains do this this thing where we consider something examined, solved, and we don't necessarily come back to it.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: Or it strikes so Bitcoin to me lives underneath all the logic, right?
7:31
SPEAKER_03: I don't think you can go at somebody logically.
7:34
SPEAKER_03: I think you need to understand the question underneath the question, right?
7:41
SPEAKER_03: So and that is like what what does this idea threaten about me?
7:45
SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of times it's status, it's you know, protecting social belonging, I think it's uh keeping a coherent worldview, and Bitcoin lives underneath and forces people to you know question some very, you know, probably ideas that they thought were concluded, or they thought they had already resolved.
8:07
SPEAKER_03: And then it stirs up all this stuff, it's cognitive dissonance, and you know, you can either ignore the idea or you can, you know, I call it, you know, the map becoming the territory in the book.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, a map is a way to navigate the world, a territory is something to defend.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: And when your status and belonging and everything are tied to an idea in the fiat system, like this is how I made a living.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: By all accounts, like this person's doing fine and has had no reason to question the way his life is going.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: So why would you even take a look at it?
8:42
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it just the the book kind of just churns through kind of all that.
8:47
SPEAKER_03: It starts off like uh, you know, showing the machine, and then what happens when like the machine starts uh collapse, and then the third act is like living outside, kind of like uh conviction without consensus.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: When you're the the lone person in the room who sees the thing or has examined it, but then now you gotta live with all the normies.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's such a great um way of explaining just how the the human brain works.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: Because when he was sharing with me a little bit about Bitcoin and early on, when he was diving in, obviously for him, light bulbs were just exploding out of his head, like all of these things were just coming, and he was like, We've been lied to, all of this stuff.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: And for me, I'm like, what do you mean?
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Like everything's fine, you know, like what are you talking about?
9:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, like my dad's done well, my brother's doing great, you know, you're feet, you look around you, like you were mentioning, and it does cause you to kind of like, well, it can't be that bad, you know.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: It's it can't like okay.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: And then once you start peeling layers after layers, I think that's why it's so important to slowly, well, for in my opinion, to slowly start understanding something because it helps you actually unravel things like a, you know, like an onion.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: You're like peeling one layer at a time, understanding what's underneath in that core of what's actually happening.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think that's a really great way.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, your book probably explains it way better.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to read it myself.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that's yeah, it's it's very true with the psychology of people.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: And I love that you kind of dove dove into that side of people understanding Bitcoin as well.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: And what kind of made you start kind of has it always been an interest of yours of how like that human behavior psychology works?
10:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would say it's probably my my first passion.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't like even I think back to in high school in like 10th grade, we had an option to take a psychology class.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, something about it just really struck me.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: And um, my first go at college um was all psychology, right?
10:50
SPEAKER_03: I just took two years and it was just like incredibly fascinating.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: But there also becomes a point where I'm like, well, how do I actually monetize this?
10:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, right.
11:00
SPEAKER_03: So um, and I've heard you guys talk in the past about you know, college and and stuff like that, and just grappling with that.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: But so, you know, I had uh kind of a moment and then I just took my student loan money and went to Europe and then kind of you know messed around.
11:14
SPEAKER_03: Just whatever.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: I was I was young and I traveled the world a little bit and learned some great life lessons.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then when I decided to go back to school, I like made a decision to be honest.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: Like I just picked structural engineering like as a whim.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, this seems kind of interesting.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, I'll just go do it.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, which sounds kind of weird, right?
11:36
SPEAKER_03: But like I was like, ah, that seems interesting enough.
11:39
SPEAKER_03: And then I don't know.
11:41
SPEAKER_03: No.
11:42
SPEAKER_03: Um but like to to your point, I think like in many ways, and just looking at you guys, um belief in a lot of ways is like a marriage.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: Um you know, like once you're married, you stop evaluating, right?
11:58
SPEAKER_03: You stop like searching for the the other thing.
12:01
SPEAKER_03: And and like that's the point of it.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: Um and it it frees up a lot of a lot of energy, right?
12:07
SPEAKER_03: But that conclusion is like something you protect.
12:10
SPEAKER_03: You you protect this belief, you protect the sanctity of marriage and you know, the home and and all that.
12:17
SPEAKER_03: And and that is the point of it.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's not a like a position to hold anymore.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: It's um it's something you're loyal to.
12:25
SPEAKER_03: I think we I think that's a great analogy for the way a lot of this like beliefs and I would call them inherited realities operate inside of us.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Like so much, like all the culture and family and school and and everything, like we inherited all this stuff.
12:42
SPEAKER_03: Just like language, right?
12:43
SPEAKER_03: We don't even we never even questioned it because just like the way to be honest, I don't know the next the I don't know the last word of this sentence that I'm speaking right now.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: It's just coming to me.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the way these beliefs actually just come to us.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: When something attacks us, we feel it in our body, and like the response just comes, right?
13:03
SPEAKER_03: The same way that somebody somebody said something negative about either one of you, each of you would probably feel something.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: I think a belief hits us the the same way.
13:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, so like in the end, unlike a marriage, like loyalty and operacy can pull in different directions.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
13:22
SPEAKER_03: And it it causes um a tension inside of us, and we'll tend to operate or choose more coherent version that fits our world view that's gonna make life easiest for us.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Dude, this is good.
13:35
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're going through mid-sense and stuff like that when you're sharing that bread.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I need to put my thinking cap on because bread's going deep right now.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: No, it's good though.
13:43
SPEAKER_02: I like it.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, and really we have to actually stop, zoom out, and just be like, hey, like, let me seek to understand how everything's working around here in our lives and stuff like that.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And going back to like where you were talking about with people, right?
13:56
SPEAKER_02: It's like someone says something to me.
13:58
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's just me, but I'm at to the point of my life now, Brett, where like if someone says something to me, I'm like, dude, you have a great day, you know?
14:05
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm like, nothing is like gonna steer me off my path unless it's like has to deal with like my inner circle, like any outside trying to come in or negativity, it's literally like, dude, I disagree with you.
14:19
SPEAKER_02: I'm I push back with that, but you know what?
14:22
SPEAKER_02: You have a great day, right?
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, we're just keeping it moving, and it's it's crazy how we change too, and our mindset changes over time.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: Like what you were saying, like at when we're young, we're like, oh man, like, dude, what are they thinking of me?
14:33
SPEAKER_02: Or what if I post this?
14:34
SPEAKER_02: What do they say, or what how are they gonna react?
14:36
SPEAKER_02: Or like, is this cool?
14:37
SPEAKER_02: Is this not cool?
14:38
SPEAKER_02: But it's like them it's it's crazy.
14:40
SPEAKER_02: Like the way we get older, and I wish I adopted this at an early stage, but we as soon as we get older, I'm like, nothing matters.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't care about anything like that.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Like, it's just me and my family and like our goals.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it's just funny.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: But um, I also wanted to go like I like how much of what we believe is actually like something we consciously choose, like versus something we observe from like family, culture, media, or stuff around us.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: What what are your thoughts on this?
15:07
SPEAKER_03: I think a vast majority is inherited reality.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: I think a vast majority is like I said, it just it's it's ingrained in us like language.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: Um now that that's not to say that we don't examine and change our beliefs, right?
15:26
SPEAKER_03: And I think and I think the way like you're talking about um, you know, nothing bothers me anymore, um, stuff like that.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: I think that's really conviction without consensus, right?
15:38
SPEAKER_03: Like you're no longer letting somebody else deter determine the value of the thing they use.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's the most important place we can get to.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: Because there's a certain peace in that.
15:53
SPEAKER_03: And the only way that I think you can honestly get there for yourself is to examine those inherited realities from basically the beginning.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, like nobody did you ever stop to think like nobody stops to think like what is money?
16:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:14
SPEAKER_03: Ever.
16:15
SPEAKER_03: Right?
16:15
SPEAKER_03: And we just walk around, we use the thing, it's like, uh, I buy my coffee with it, I fucking take sorry, I take out a lawn, I you know, you're good, you're good.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: You could cut some.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: It's at a children's show, we understand.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: So you want that's not to say that is not I, you know, and I'm not saying that we don't change our beliefs and question our beliefs and come to our own conclusions.
16:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm saying just to start with, like our foundation is laid before we can even probably speak.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: And it comes to culture, family, school, and we never we never chose the map we start out with to navigate the world.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: And the only thing I'm even asking anyone in this book, like, I don't ever claim to have a monopoly on truth.
17:01
SPEAKER_03: I don't know the right way to walk life.
17:03
SPEAKER_03: I don't think anyone does, and anyone who claims to is selling you something.
17:07
SPEAKER_03: So I I just really the only thing I'm asking is just look at where that came from.
17:13
SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a series of tells that happen.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: And I think one is it arrives in your body first.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: I think if you hear something and it hits you, it hits your nervous system physically, that's a belief being challenged, and your mind is coming up with an explanation before thought.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: So I'm asking pause, not then in the moment, but like later, sit with like, why did I feel that?
17:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, why will that hit my body?
17:46
SPEAKER_03: And just actually think of you don't gotta tell the dude he's right.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'm just saying, like because my whole thought process is with these uh, you know, inherited beliefs or you know, whatever, even things that we've sat with for a long time.
18:03
SPEAKER_03: When we start to defend them, we're no longer updating.
18:07
SPEAKER_03: We're we're constantly just defending the thing and the world is growing around us and new information is around us at all times.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: And if we're not like questioning the thing we thought was already concluded, we're just doing the thing I did in 2012 when I thought Bitcoin was internet drug money.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: Right.
18:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I I'm thinking about because I have a background in education and um, you know, thinking about like the term learned behavior, right?
18:39
SPEAKER_00: Of understanding like because of where your environment is, is how you your behavior, right?
18:44
SPEAKER_00: And I it kind of made me think of that initially, and it kind of um, I don't know if it parallels necessarily totally.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are some instincts that we have, you know, that we're kind of born with, but also we also we are in an environment.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: So whatever someone else where Anthony grew up is not someplace where I grew up, right?
19:02
SPEAKER_00: And I he learned so many other things by being in his environment than I did.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: But like you, what you were mentioning, that neuroplasticity of being able to learn and relearn something else and build kind of like if you're always defending where you were, you know, were or being a victim of something or whatever that might look, right?
19:22
SPEAKER_00: I make it just makes me think you're making my wills turn as you're talking of that we can learn something new and it's okay.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, like your new belief system can it can be a good thing.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, you're you're allowed to change your mind, and that's perfectly fine.
19:39
SPEAKER_03: Like, I I don't know, like changing my mind all the time about all kinds of things.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: Like, I you know, I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in time.
19:49
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
19:50
SPEAKER_03: I might look back at this episode and go, like, you know what, I'm I was wrong.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: You know what?
19:54
SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
19:54
SPEAKER_03: It does it like that's fine.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong with that.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, real quick, also, Brett.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, I know you mentioned like you mentioned like inherited beliefs.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, give me an example of like an inherited belief.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: What do you mean by this?
20:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, just we'll start off with culture, culture in general, like is an inheritance, like your entire view of the world.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: And you can even take somebody like we'll just use Bitcoin as an example.
20:20
SPEAKER_03: Somebody in Nigeria or Ukraine or whatever is gonna look at Bitcoin significantly differently than somebody in the United States, right?
20:30
SPEAKER_03: They're they're looking at it not necessarily as like a number go up or increase my asset, they're looking at it as, you know, property rights, as in, you know, as an escape from inflation, something that can't be taken from them, a way to um, you know, transfer the wealth across borders.
20:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: With 12 words.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's so many things to Bitcoin beyond like the price.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
20:55
SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah, no, that's a great, yeah, because then it also be like, oh, number go up, or like, hey, decentralized, separate money from state.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, there's all of these different factors that go into play.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's viewpoint perspective is different on how they see Bitcoin.
21:09
SPEAKER_02: No, that's really good.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: And then um, how does all this connect to Bitcoin?
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, did like did studying Bitcoin change the way you think about police systems in general?
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Or like, yeah, how does that factor in?
21:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think I think Bitcoin is one of the few places where we're actually in contact with consequence.
21:30
SPEAKER_02: Break this down.
21:31
SPEAKER_03: So all the systems around us are padded, and we're never in contact with the actual result directly.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: So a bank can fail, you don't lose your money, there's you know, insurance and all this stuff, right?
21:50
SPEAKER_03: Um other things like you think you're patient.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: Well, when have you actually had to be patient where it cost you something?
21:57
SPEAKER_03: Right?
21:58
SPEAKER_03: So, so Bitcoin in in my View is a great way to look at beliefs because it's a mirror.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: It's not a forge.
22:04
SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't create responsibility on demand.
22:07
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't create patience on demand.
22:10
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't create low time preference on demand.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: You bring all of it to Bitcoin, and Bitcoin shows you your actual relationship because now there's a cost to it, and you're in direct consequence with that cost.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: I love that analogy of that mirror because it does in so many aspects.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: I in parenthood, I've had situations where I've been held a mirror to my face.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, my kids might say something, and I'm like, dude, they're just showing me exactly how I'm responding to something and making me really change my behavior or change my belief system about how I thought everything was going to flow and how everything was going to go and how I thought about certain things of parenting, right?
22:51
SPEAKER_00: And so um that made me think of that because I always talk about how each of uh our kids has held that mirror and changed my belief system on how I thought I was gonna parent each one and how everything was gonna be my little type A side of my brain was gonna work, you know?
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
23:07
SPEAKER_03: Like, think about like, you know, we have this idea like, hey, we're we're very disciplined.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, I know you go to the gym a lot.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you know, so like I'm I'm disciplined, and this is the time and the domain where I exercise this discipline.
23:21
SPEAKER_03: But like your children can come up to you, and you know, I'm not talking about disciplining your children, but like just your own discipline in like, hey, we're not gonna give in.
23:31
SPEAKER_03: Um, or you know, like we need to maintain like boundaries and stuff like that.
23:35
SPEAKER_03: But then like their little cute smiling faces are there, and you know what, you can have the ice cream.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
23:41
SPEAKER_03: So it's like, you know, the discipline of like where this is the kind of people we say we are.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: And I think Bitcoin is really good at showing you the difference between the performance of who you say you are and what you actually are.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: And I love the what you were saying, that we're we live in a padded society.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Like we do get help, right?
24:02
SPEAKER_00: When we from our system at points.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: But that would that's the intimidating part, I think, for a lot of people with Bitcoin is that you you are self-sovereign over things, which is um awesome, but it's also that that security blanket that we think that we need, right?
24:18
SPEAKER_00: To be able to help like for some people to getting into the space.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I think for some people it's intimidating to know, like, oh man, this is all on me.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: No one's gonna come and rescue me.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And like you said, it's gonna hold up a mirror to be like, what is your actual relationship with waiting and actually realizing, like, hey, if you want this type of lifestyle of being self-sovereign or having that freedom to do things the way you want, do you actually believe that?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, like do you actually feel that way?
24:44
SPEAKER_00: So it's such a great way of explaining that.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm seeing so many parallels around just life in general.
24:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: You know, it's easy to be patient in traffic, it's easy to be patient with your children.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: Is it easy to be patient when you want that number to go up?
24:59
SPEAKER_03: Or you see, or you see the other thing outrunning it.
25:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, the the the S coin or you know, the shit coins or you know, whatever.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: Like I had to battle with that a lot, right?
25:12
SPEAKER_03: Early on.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you see the thing outrunning it, and it's like, no, I'm I'm a really patient person.
25:17
SPEAKER_03: Like, you don't come to Bitcoin with diamond hands, like you don't.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you you gotta like live the thing, and it can instill all those values, I think, like over time, but that's a practice, that's not something that just shows up.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's it's the practice of sitting with the consequence and and owning it.
25:37
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that is so good.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: And then um, just to pivot a little bit too here, Brett, is um uh fuggem.
25:43
SPEAKER_02: I see it everywhere.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
25:45
SPEAKER_02: Um, the bubblegum.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: I I actually, you know, I love bubblegum.
25:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you see my my ex, but I'm always carrying a pack of gum all the time.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I I guess I need some fugum, or if we could break down exactly this fugum and just break down this whole thing, how it started, uh, what are your plans with it?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Um to share with us.
26:06
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26:08
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26:35
SPEAKER_03: So um, back in the day, and may this might be a Midwest thing, but um when somebody said something stupid or like brought you down in some way, you just say what kind of gum?
26:47
SPEAKER_03: Fug them.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: Like, like, don't worry about it, bro.
26:50
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's it's all good.
26:52
SPEAKER_03: So, like, to be honest, in like a group chat, I just said it randomly and you know, it became kind of this joke.
26:58
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, then I bought the domain.
27:01
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you know what, this could be something.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: I just bought the domain.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, you can just do things.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: So I bought the domain and I got the the trademarks and everything for it.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you know, like really, but as I as I grow with it, like the book and like everything I'm about parallels so much with Fugum.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: It's it's a modality of pause.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: It's when that thing hits you that you're just brings your day down.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: You can look down at a package, and maybe it gives you a chuckle, and there's all kinds of you know, things I can do with it, little comic strips, whatever.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: But like it gives you a little chuckle, you pop a piece of gum, you exhale the negativity into the bubble, it pops, and it's gone.
27:46
SPEAKER_03: It's just oh I think it's a way to like it sounds weird to talk about gum like this, but like it can bring presence to your life.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
27:56
SPEAKER_03: Like it it can allow you to be where your feet are.
27:59
SPEAKER_03: It's something as simple as a piece of gum.
28:02
SPEAKER_03: Like it's it's just the act of all the things I try to practice in life and just putting it in a physical form.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: You've made me think about gum completely differently now.
28:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, right.
28:16
SPEAKER_03: But and and it's funny, and like, you know, I can make all these gifts, or what do you say, gifs or gifts?
28:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't do I say I think I say gifs, but it's probably gifs.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: It's whatever you want it to be.
28:29
SPEAKER_02: It's whatever you want it to be.
28:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, fair enough.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: So, like, you know, and I make the gifts and it's funny, and like well, like that's that's the real thing, is I'm just trying to, you know, just let it go.
28:38
SPEAKER_03: Like, it protect your energy, optimize priority.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: Is it worth arguing with people on the internet?
28:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's not like fuck them.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: Who gives a shit?
28:47
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, literally, you like some person isn't gonna determine the value of the way I look at the world or anything.
28:53
SPEAKER_03: Like, fuck them, yeah.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Who gives a shit?
28:56
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
28:56
SPEAKER_02: That's so good.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: And like, I think people forget, and I think more helps me develop like this mindset like I was sharing earlier, like nothing really like kind of steers me away from like my energy or like tries to take it away whenever someone says something negative.
29:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, people forget like the death rate is a hundred percent still.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Like, who cares?
29:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, who cares?
29:16
SPEAKER_02: And no one's gonna remember, oh hey, Anthony sent that tweet out, you know, on August 30th at 10 a.m.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Like blah blah blah.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, what?
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Nobody cares.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: And if they do, fug them.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if they do, fuck them.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: Think about this.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: If you had$1,440 in your bank account and somebody took one of them, would you give them the rest?
29:40
SPEAKER_03: No.
29:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, there's 1,440 minutes in a day.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: If somebody took one of them, are you gonna spend the rest of your day like worrying about with some person on the internet or even in your life?
29:51
SPEAKER_03: Right?
29:52
SPEAKER_03: Like it doesn't matter.
29:54
SPEAKER_03: Like, yeah, just move on with your life.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: And it comes down to like this like controlling your own self-control and not letting external things determine value to you.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Practicing the pause too.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I did like a a study once on that, and it's it's so helpful because you can be very reactive in this world too.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like um I think the system kind of makes us that way, right?
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Like where you're just you are going and going and going, and you're just trying to get to the next thing, to the next thing.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: You're there filling up, you're filling up your calendar, you're doing all these things.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Not saying that we really do that, but that's what it feels when you look at the people around you.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It can you start seeing people just being busy for or busy, not even productive, just busy doing random stuff.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: And so when I was studying about that, it really put things in perspective for me.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: Cause truly, what are we like, what am I reacting for?
30:50
SPEAKER_00: What are we doing?
30:51
SPEAKER_00: What's the purpose of this?
30:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, like really understanding why we're doing certain things.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's such a great reminder.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: Cause even I'm even considering like starting to give my kids gum now because it's like, let's just get back to like blowing a bubble and like, okay, let's calm our bodies now.
31:09
SPEAKER_00: Like if we're all because obviously we're human, we're gonna have reactions at some point.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: It's not like we're not gonna like, you know, get flustered or whatever, but that's such a great point because we homeschool too.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So there's times where I'm like, oh my gosh, we need a breather, you know, and let's just let's just blow bubbles, let's do it.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: And there's studies that show like gum helps with memory retention and all kinds of stuff like that too.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: But you know, it I I developed this practice a long time ago.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, like a a being present practice is any it's not it sounds weird to say out loud.
31:41
SPEAKER_03: Anytime like I touch a handle, like on my truck or like my door handle, like I'm when I'm walking into somewhere, I take an inventory of what's happening.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: And it's just a quick little like, what am I feeling right now?
31:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, how can I be more present in this moment?
31:58
SPEAKER_03: Just kind of like an exhale, just in it is it's just a way to to pause and be cognitive of my present self and just just recenter and be where my feet are.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Um that's so good.
32:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, but you know what?
32:16
SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: The way my mind works is now every time I touch a door handle to my car, like it will always like this, like little things like this, they stick with me.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: It's kind of crazy because now I'll touch my like door handle when I go into my car, and I'm gonna be like, okay, cool.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm about to drive.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, let me make sure I'm aware and I'm focused and not on my cell phone.
32:37
SPEAKER_02: And I have my family, so let's do this.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: And then, like, or even when I go to work now, I can see myself like unlocking our our office.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: I'll open it.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna be like, okay, cool.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: Like, I need to focus right now and like help as many people as I can today.
32:52
SPEAKER_02: Like, because it, you're right, it's weird.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: There is always a pause whenever you're touching a door handle because you're walking into a new space.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what it's like.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: That's so you're always walking in a new space, whether it's like even coming home, you're like, I'm walking from outside to inside, and I'm about to take in three kids, a dog, my wife, like you know, it's really oh my god, stuck like this, Predict me or ever.
33:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: That's exactly right, man.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: And to be present in that new space, right?
33:22
SPEAKER_03: And but like to push further, if you know, it opened with the fogum, you can do the same thing by unwrapping a piece of gum.
33:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's just a check-in.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: And like it may not be in the new space, right?
33:36
SPEAKER_03: But it's like it's just a way to check in with yourself and be present in in the moment, which I think, you know, I think a lot of problems stem from like our inability to sit alone with ourselves, yep, and be present.
33:51
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, a lot of people, I think that kind of drives them insane, right?
33:56
SPEAKER_02: And that's what they do in prison, right?
33:58
SPEAKER_02: When like solitary or whatever, they'll put you by yourself because they know that a lot of people can't handle being by themselves.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: Again, it probably this might be totally different.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: I've never been in solitaire, but I'm just saying, like, I like I love and there is so much comfort and peace when I'm by myself.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: I really like will soak it up because it's like a these little moments in your day and moments in your life where it's rare, uh in my opinion.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: So, for example, like when I'm in my car and I'm coming home, love that little moment by myself.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: If I have if I go on a walk sometimes where the the whole family's taking a nap and I gotta take my dog for a walk, like that, that's peaceful to me.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Or going to the gym and I'm like locked in and it's just like me and my music or a podcast, I'm like, it's peace, you know, or even just reading a book.
34:47
SPEAKER_02: Again, that's peaceful.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: That time alone is peaceful.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: I always look for it too, but I also I'm not like seeking it because I do love being with my family.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but that is very, very interesting.
34:59
SPEAKER_02: You got me thinking about like all these moments in my day now, like that I have.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, it's it's just great because it's applicable, right?
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Like everyone wants something that they can apply in their life.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, because some people are really and it there are so many resources, almost, almost we know too much sometimes.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we have too much information, right?
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Where I'm like, gosh, like now I'm I'm almost like decision fatigued because I don't know what's gonna work for me, right?
35:25
SPEAKER_00: But like keeping it simple, you keep it so simple, Brett, with like the things that we can just do in that moment where we're going a little like, okay, like how am I feeling right now?
35:36
SPEAKER_00: I obviously feel my heart rate getting up.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting a little frustrated, my kids are getting frustrated, or whoever's you're around, like, okay, let's just pause.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Let's just take a breather, step outside, you know, whatever we got to do, eat some gum or blow bubbles even, like just with like a bubble, you know, regular bubbles, you know, just doing stuff like that where we can just keep it simple.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's super important for people to just remember.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I feel like uh even in the Bitcoin space, it's very simple.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, like everything that I feel like people's thought processes and like about overall health and wanting the world, it's very simple.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: We just make it harder than it needs to be, just as like humans, right?
36:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm like so excited to read your book, Brett.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: So many things that are just popping off in my brain, like how Anthony was when he was reading Bitcoin, like that's how my brain's going right now about all that you're telling us.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Hey, but uh Brett, uh Bitcoiners talk a lot about thinking for yourself.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but can Bitcoiners fall into the same tribal belief traps that they criticize everyone else for?
36:39
SPEAKER_02: Do you think?
36:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, they're 100% in the same thing.
36:44
SPEAKER_03: Like the machine it doesn't stop just because like you own an asset.
36:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: And just because you thought about something.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: And I would also argue that like the analysis stops.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: And I would also argue that just because you came early, you understood the thing, you diamond handed, it ran, but now you start taking it into other domains, and now you're like you're the person who diamond handed, and now you think that is the same in other domains as well.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: And it's not always the truth, right?
37:16
SPEAKER_03: And you stop like evaluating it's like, oh, I worked here, and now you're not applying like the same the same processes that got you to conviction in Bitcoin in other things as well, like the questioning and things.
37:31
SPEAKER_03: There are things I think Bitcoiners are very good at.
37:34
SPEAKER_03: So stories are compression, right?
37:36
SPEAKER_03: We take a mass amount of information and nuance and compress it into a story.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: An example would be don't trust verify.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: It's something you can walk out of the room with.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: Who practices it?
37:50
SPEAKER_03: Not that many.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: Who's who's verified the Bitcoin code?
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Who's actually sat and read the code?
37:56
SPEAKER_03: Who's who's like plugged it into Cloud and like like what is this thing doing?
38:01
SPEAKER_03: Who looked at you know the cold card code?
38:04
SPEAKER_03: Like I'm just saying, like we we have this a lot and it's the same in every domain, and Bitcoiners aren't immune to it.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, and to think that you are because you thought really hard in one domain, isn't the same thing.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: And the thinking hard and the questioning should never stop.
38:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, that's so good.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: We should never stop questioning.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what's great.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: That makes Bitcoiners great too, is because like they question.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: I can actually speak for myself, not Bitcoiners, but for me, I was like, man, I was just working hard, I was doing everything right.
38:40
SPEAKER_02: I went to school, got a degree, worked my ass off, worked for night big companies, built amazing relationships, got to do amazing trips and things, and then but it still felt empty.
38:52
SPEAKER_02: It still felt like I was missing something.
38:54
SPEAKER_02: It still felt like I was going backwards and I was running full speed and forward.
38:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, I went into like a profession in real estate where it's like, oh, big money, it's it's it's pretty, it's like the next thing, like it's an asset, it goes up, it's an investment, you can do so much.
39:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, I did all of these things, and I was still like nothing was right.
39:15
SPEAKER_02: And then I okay, well, let me look into this Bitcoin thing, and I felt like I was always thinking for myself, like, how do I make a move?
39:22
SPEAKER_02: How do I pivot?
39:23
SPEAKER_02: How do I grow?
39:23
SPEAKER_02: How do I get out of this like race, this fiat mindset?
39:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, but it's so funny because we're all like getting finesse.
39:30
SPEAKER_02: We're all like no one, like you said, no one questions what is money.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there's no way, like, how do my parents not know what money is?
39:38
SPEAKER_02: How do my grandparents not know what money is?
39:40
SPEAKER_02: It's wild how nobody knows like what money is, you know.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: And and reciting facts like so reciting facts isn't the same thing as understanding the thing.
39:52
SPEAKER_03: The book opens up with a story of me reciting facts to like my vice president, and then him asking me a question that I couldn't answer.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: And it's just like it it it just stuck with me forever because it's like I thought I was doing the thing, I was doing the performance.
40:10
SPEAKER_03: And I think every we do this in all domains, but it's like the performance of like and you know what?
40:17
SPEAKER_03: My first book was a performance.
40:19
SPEAKER_03: It was just the argument of why you know Bitcoin is sound money for digital age.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: And it is the argument's sound, but it had no soul in it, it was just facts, it was just like, hey, here's the argument.
40:31
SPEAKER_03: There was no like humanity in it, and I really learned a lot from that um pivoting into writing this one, but you know, it's it's real, and it's it's like stuff that I just grappled with, and I think we all grapple with.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: Um Yeah, do you feel like that's sometimes like a stepping stone for people too to like be able to learn?
40:53
SPEAKER_00: I feel I mean, I I've navigated that same, you know, process of, and I think we do in our schooling system anyways, right?
40:59
SPEAKER_00: Of like teaching to a test or um taking a test and getting like, you know, making sure we get 100% on it.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: But then if someone asks me anything on that test after 10 minutes, I'm not gonna be able to recite or tell or anything about that specific topic.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: I there's been so many times where I was like an A student, but I it was always just so I could just get a good grade in on that test, you know.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: So I feel I moved out 100.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: Like right, and so and moving into this age that we're moving into, so information was always gatekeeped, right?
41:34
SPEAKER_03: There was always gatekeepers of information, like college, teachers, like you know, everything, right?
41:40
SPEAKER_03: But now information is out there, right?
41:44
SPEAKER_03: It's almost infrared.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: You can get the information anywhere.
41:48
SPEAKER_03: So really it's those critical thinking skills, the ability to ask why, but then filter the information and not just filter the information that agrees with you and agrees with the the you know what the room thinks.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, because belief doesn't operate separate from belonging.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: Right?
42:11
SPEAKER_03: We're always reading the room, but like you think about I don't know, at work or something, a person will be complaining about something, but then like go into the meeting and be a totally different character, right?
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you always a lot.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
42:27
SPEAKER_03: So it's like just becomes this performance, and like that's not to say like what they are.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: I think you know, the underlying belief is is different in each room.
42:37
SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying that whether it's performing to a test, you know, in the academic setting or you know, in the work setting, like just being a different person, your boss, and all this, like we need consensus as a species because our underlying equipment evolved when belonging had a cost.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: And if you were tossed out of the tribe, you were probably dead.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:03
SPEAKER_03: So that's in my mind, I'm thinking like of all the times I needed to like morph my thoughts and even my underlying beliefs and even values, so I could fit the room and fit the mold.
43:21
SPEAKER_03: And I think about like graduating college, right?
43:23
SPEAKER_03: I was never more empty than when I graduated college.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: I completed the thing, I got the goal, I had the title, I was that guy.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: And you know what?
43:31
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't that guy because it wasn't aligned with who I was.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: And we I think a lot of us do that.
43:42
SPEAKER_03: Like, we we chase the title or the you know, the the monetary benefits, and we think it's gonna be this thing, and it's gonna give us so much joy and provide all this safety and everything for our families, which is awesome, and we all want that.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: But if you're not at Peace with yourself.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: What's it friggin' matter?
44:03
SPEAKER_03: Like you're not gonna come home and be a good dad if you're mad at your job all the time.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:09
SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, it's you're not gonna be present when you're thinking about your work all the time.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna be where your feet are.
44:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
44:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, to add on to that, like, so you're not happy at where you're working at, and this thing sucks the life out of you because you're giving your best time, day, energy, hours, years to this system, this job, this whatever it may be.
44:33
SPEAKER_02: And then you come home and then you're like mad, upset, deals didn't go through, you're tired, and you just take it out on loved ones, right?
44:44
SPEAKER_02: Or you're so tired that you're just giving them complete leftovers.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
44:48
SPEAKER_03: And you're just going to say, like, that's that's like that's money right there.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Like, that's yeah, that's so true, right?
44:56
SPEAKER_03: Um because you're not where your feet are, you're just you're not present with those people in that moment.
45:04
SPEAKER_03: Because like why are you trying to build the thing?
45:08
SPEAKER_03: Well, the reason you're trying to build the thing is the exact thing you're nor ignoring in that moment.
45:14
SPEAKER_03: And you're putting the pressure on yourself to do that, but like it's right in front of you the whole time.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just know that I fell into that trap myself, and just like thinking about how I just kind of worked my way out of it, and I just kind of made all these developed all these little heuristics or whatever, just like you know, um, touching the door handle, just things like that, just little tricks and stuff just to be more more present in in our everyday lives.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: That's good.
45:45
SPEAKER_00: And people always say, like, I would die for my family.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: But like, oh yeah.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: We always say, like, would you live for your family?
45:52
SPEAKER_00: Would you live a present-filled life?
45:54
SPEAKER_00: Would you live like a would you live fully for your family?
45:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: Rather than like, oh, I would take a bullet for them.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: Blah, blah, blah.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, bro, but would you live for your family?
46:04
SPEAKER_02: Would you do everything possible to give them the best life ever, right?
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Whether it's pivoting out of a new job, whether it's learning a new skill set, you know, whether it's starting a new business, like whatever it may be, like would you live for your family?
46:15
SPEAKER_02: Like, bro, who cares if you like what good are you dead to if like you took the bullet for them, right?
46:20
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are we talking about?
46:22
SPEAKER_02: Uh no, that's a really good that's really good.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: That's really good.
46:26
SPEAKER_03: Everything's really easy in the abstract.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:28
SPEAKER_03: Right?
46:29
SPEAKER_03: It's all really easy in the abstract.
46:31
SPEAKER_03: And it's the same thing.
46:32
SPEAKER_03: I'll just bring it back to Bitcoin.
46:33
SPEAKER_03: Bitcoin takes the abstract away.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's right, yeah.
46:38
SPEAKER_03: The consequence is actually right there, and you actually have to do it.
46:42
SPEAKER_03: It's not abstract anymore.
46:43
SPEAKER_03: Your relationship with all these things is right there, and the consequence is in front of you, and you have to make a choice.
46:50
SPEAKER_03: And that choice is who you are.
46:52
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: So much deeper than just Bitcoin.
46:56
SPEAKER_00: It's your whole who you are becoming in when you are learning more about Bitcoin, the value system that you're developing, the person that you want to become in Bitcoin, you know.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think this is such an impactful message that you've been able to one, go through it yourself, which has been total, probably, you know, that personal development, but also being able to share it in words, on pages, on books.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: And I I love that you were so authentic in saying that your first book was really about just kind of, in a sense, re for lack of better words, regurgitating information so that people understood it right.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: But then this next book is something that really comes from that humanity aspect of understanding our minds, understanding our belief system.
47:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really excited to kind of be able to understand that better personally.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: I always think that's one of the areas that we really love is that personal growth aspect of just finding ways where we can be more present.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: And if it aligns with our value system, we will try it.
47:54
SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
47:55
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's super important for us to be able to do those things and continue to grow.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: And we always say we're lifelong learners.
48:02
SPEAKER_00: Like if we're not learning and growing, like what's the point?
48:05
SPEAKER_00: You know?
48:06
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
48:07
SPEAKER_02: And I just want to like add 100%.
48:13
SPEAKER_02: Seek to understand where, like, on your book, like, hey, where's where's Brett coming from on this?
48:17
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's his perspective on this, right?
48:19
SPEAKER_02: Uh, he's a big corner like us as well.
48:21
SPEAKER_02: But like you said, we see it from different angles.
48:23
SPEAKER_02: We see it from different our inherited beliefs.
48:25
SPEAKER_02: So let's see where he sees it from and how this whole thought process works.
48:29
SPEAKER_02: And which is really cool because I did not think we were gonna go into like stuff like this right now on this uh podcast today.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: And um one of the one of the final questions we we always really appreciate asking our guests too is you know, if someone's just coming into the Bitcoin space, um what's some great advice?
48:47
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if they listen to this episode, they'll have great advice, but what is other advice that you would give someone just stepping into learning more about what Bitcoin is and coming into that space?
48:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've I've heard you ask that on other episodes, and I think it's it's such a great question, right?
49:06
SPEAKER_03: Um the first thing is write it down first before you have skin in the game.
49:12
SPEAKER_03: Write down why you think Bitcoin is and the the reason why is it's the smartest thing I did.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: And I I just wrote down the world is becoming more digital.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: Um there's only 21 million Bitcoin is sound money for a digital age.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: And the reading the reason why I think writing it down is so important is that if you're in a calm space with no skin in the game and no money at stake, right?
49:43
SPEAKER_03: And when a 70% drawdown hits or it starts running, you're gonna be a totally different person in that moment.
49:52
SPEAKER_03: And paper doesn't change, it's gonna hold that thought that you had when you were calm and thinking clearly.
50:02
SPEAKER_03: And I think to me, that was the the most impactful thing that I did.
50:08
SPEAKER_03: And I think the other thing is is smaller is don't let somebody else's conviction stand for your own.
50:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you gotta build your your own conviction.
50:20
SPEAKER_03: Um when because when you outsource it and you know those drawdowns hit or it runs, uh it does something you don't expect or does exactly what you do expect.
50:33
SPEAKER_03: If somebody else's conviction is a stand-in for your own, you're no longer thinking you're for yourself and you're just playing the performance and you're playing to the room and not your own um like the reason why you got in it.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:48
SPEAKER_03: So it's so good, Brett.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: So good.
50:51
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
50:52
SPEAKER_02: And it did the whole idea of writing it down, was it you came up with that, or did someone tell you to do that before you got into the Bitcoin space?
50:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, so like I studied a lot before I actually bought Bitcoin.
51:03
SPEAKER_03: And like a lot of these things were like, you know, books I read, like even I don't want to say Ray Dalio said it, but like whatever.
51:12
SPEAKER_03: Some some books somewhere said, like, write down your thesis.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I really thought about that.
51:17
SPEAKER_03: I talk about this in the Belief Machine actually in like the last section is called Three Lines.
51:22
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
51:23
SPEAKER_03: Um, but like when I wrote it down and I understood it to the best that I could at the time, I still got trapped.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: I was still trading all these other things, right?
51:36
SPEAKER_03: And really what saved me was finding it in a notebook because I used to write everything down.
51:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, I still write everything down, but I used to write down like daily like number, you know, everything and like different article headlines that I'd find and stuff.
51:51
SPEAKER_03: But like I found this and I'm like, oh my god, like this isn't why I got into this in the first place.
51:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, why am I like sitting here in this parking lot trying to figure out what the Tampa Bay Zoo is gonna name the baby rhinoceros?
52:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, this is ridiculous.
52:06
SPEAKER_03: Like, what are you even doing here?
52:07
SPEAKER_03: Just so I could buy the meme coin.
52:09
SPEAKER_03: It's like, what are you even doing here?
52:11
SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, it was just like it it kept myself in check.
52:16
SPEAKER_03: I know it's it's ridiculous, but like I was that guy, yeah, but it told me where I was coming from to begin with.
52:23
SPEAKER_03: It it gave a foundation, right?
52:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and I think it's important that we all understand like why we got into this in the first place, because that's where it's really gonna come from when it matters.
52:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that is so good.
52:37
SPEAKER_02: Even when it goes up or even when it goes down, too, you're so right.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just like you could just fall back on on that what you wrote down.
52:46
SPEAKER_02: That is so good because you do change when it goes up, and you do change when it goes down.
52:50
SPEAKER_02: And you and you change when you and you change when it stays leveled as well, too, you know.
52:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, dude, that's so good.
52:57
SPEAKER_02: Look, and I'm so glad we all grow.
52:59
SPEAKER_02: Like, look at you, look at you, Brett.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: You know how much guessing this is right off.
53:06
SPEAKER_03: Thank goodness we all grow.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's so good.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: That's so good.
53:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, we appreciate you so much, Brett, and what you're doing, just one for just the human race and all of the things that you're sharing with us and the psychology behind so much of what um goes into how our beliefs happen.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: And I this always has always interested me as well.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but then also into the Bitcoin space, really helping people understand why they believe what they believe and and really questioning um a lot more about what's going on around them.
53:37
SPEAKER_00: So I love this.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: This has been awesome.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, where can people connect with you?
53:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: Um, first and for I guess because 21 on X, I guess.
53:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, and then the beliefmachine.org.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: Um I've been putting essays and just kind of like after afterthoughts um from just kind of thinking about how other people are interacting with this book and it's it's bringing up other things, right?
54:06
SPEAKER_03: Um so kind of like a continuation of the book, thebeliefmachine.org.
54:11
SPEAKER_03: I guess I have a YouTube channel as be every every beac 21.
54:15
SPEAKER_03: Um, everyone.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: And chew fuggum.com.
54:19
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: Fuggum.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: We are buying that gum ASAP.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Fuggem.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: That it's gonna be a great reminder for us to just be present.
54:26
SPEAKER_00: And it was all of these, all of this was such a great reminder of what's really important and just being present, you know, knowing where your feet are, like you said.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: So we appreciate you, Brett, and thank you so much for being on our show.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: And thank you to our audience who's tuning in today to To the Moon with the Lunas, and we'll see you all on the moon.
54:45
SPEAKER_02: Peace.
54:47
SPEAKER_02: You made it this far, so you might as well hit that subscribe button.
54:50
SPEAKER_02: You won't want to miss the conversations we got coming next.
54:54
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for watching, and we'll see you on the moon.