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Bill Payne · The Scene Projects

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This program is part of the Scene Projects podcast network.
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Scene Project features interviews with independent musicians, comedians, and artists
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Welcome in to another exciting episode of the scene.
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I'm your host Bubba Starts, and today I'm joined by American pianist and cofounder of the
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band Little Feet, Bill Payne.
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Bill, welcome to the show.
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Yeah.
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Pleasure, brother.
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Thank you very much for having me.
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I really appreciate your time, Bill.
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I know that you guys are out touring right now and how stressful that can be.
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So I appreciate you guys having a little bit of time to talk about, well, the new album and
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being back on the road.
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Yeah.
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This new record we have with there's a blues album, and it features Sam Clayton and Bonnie
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Rae to made a few suggestions for us and was gracious enough to appear on that album as
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well.
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And, yeah, we're we're excited by the the reception it's gotten both when we play things
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live and and the album itself.
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So thanks.
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I think the album was recorded live.
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Correct?
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It was.
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It was we went out to Memphis to one of Sam Phillips studios, not sun but one one of the
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other studios that Sam had.
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And his son, Jerry, was was there running running the show, I guess.
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And the night we we got in, was a shooting outside the hotel.
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We sort of set the tone for everything.
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Think eight people were shot.
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Not Oh my god.
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Seriously from from what I understand, but, it was Memphis.
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It's a little dangerous there, and and we were let's let's play the blues.
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So that's that's what we did.
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Unbelievable.
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And hence, the name Sam's Place then.
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Well, Sam's Place, I always thought we were we were calling it Sam's Place because of Sam
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Clayton.
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I read in an interview with Sam that he said he he he liked it because it it it also
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promulgated Sam Phillips because we were at one of Sam's studios.
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So I guess it fits both both Yeah.
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Categories.
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Yeah.
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Nothing wrong with a a double meaning to everyone, and everyone has their own meaning to
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it anyway.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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As a Blues fan, my mother brought me up on the Blues.
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They were raised in Romeoville, Illinois, which is the South now the South Suburbs of Chicago.
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It was the Boonies at one point when they were, you know, growing up in the sixties and
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seventies.
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But she, you know, remembers being one of, you know, very few not colored people in the
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Chicago blues cubs, you know, seeing Coco Taylor.
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And so her love of the blues, really has always been deep in me as well and a big, influence on
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my not necessarily my musical style, but one of my my biggest bands is the Paul Butterfield
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blues band, of which I noticed that you guys cut several songs that he also cut on a record
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back in the day.
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Is there a reason?
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Is that just good that's what good blues music is?
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Or
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Well, that's a good question, actually.
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I I, Meltdown Easy was one that that, Paul Butterfield recorded that I I really loved.
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It's, and we did a con combination of that arrangement, and there's a little Walter tune
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as well.
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So we we tried to bend both ways on that.
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But on a personal level, I mean, I played with BB King, Buddy Guy, Otis Rush, John Lee Hooker,
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let's see, Taj Mahal and and Ada James.
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I I got a pretty good sense of the blues as well.
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Yes, sir.
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I would say you do.
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So
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that's I think Sam's the real deal, man, is what I'm trying to say.
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Oh, it sounds like it, man.
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But it just that's where I knew it from, and it was funny as I'm because I was kinda listening
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over and listening to the album on a drive, and I was like, I am so like, wow.
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That's another one.
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But, also, you have a killer harmonica player in the band, and that has to kinda lean that
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way too.
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I don't know that there's many, you know, guys that, are better than Paul Butterfield, at
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least for my listening year.
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And I'm not as studied as I should be.
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Right?
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But when I think of Blues harmonica, that that's the top of the list.
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Right?
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Oh, yeah.
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No.
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He he definitely is.
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And this guy, Bull, who plays with us, he's Sam's tech.
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Michael LaBeou is his name.
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And gosh, we've I'm trying to think of the guy that was anyway, yeah, Bull is just fine
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playing harmonica with us, and very, very pleased to have him.
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Yeah.
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It's fantastic.
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Yeah.
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It's great.
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And I'm sure I mean, you've just you've just rattled off a who's who of blues music, of who
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you've played with, but that's not who you're playing with on the road every single night.
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Can you kinda talk about the the bonds that you form with those people that maybe don't have
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that giant name to them, but that you're making this incredible music with every single night.
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And, I mean, the thousands, I would assume, of people that you've played with in your career.
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I'm not under I I'm
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not and I guess what I'm asking is that, you know, do you have kind of a set band now that
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you've been playing with?
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Like, you know, obviously, you're the last, you know, original member of the four piece that
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was Little Feet in 1971.
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Right?
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Mhmm.
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The band looks and sounds much different today.
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What what is the lineup like for you just as a live performance from the live Oh,
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I see.
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I see what you're saying.
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Well, we we have two two new members, Scott Sherard on guitars, vocals.
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I met Scott on a Doobie Brothers tour, oh, seven, eight years ago, I guess, and he was the
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musical director for Greg Allman.
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We also have a drummer, Tony Leone, who's played with gosh.
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What's what's it?
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Ola Belle, which is a band that that Amy Helm is in.
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He also played with Amy's father, Lavon Helm.
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He's played with Larry and Teresa, Larry Campbell and Teresa Williams in their bands.
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And then finally, he was Chris Robinson, the brotherhood.
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So his chops are are amazing.
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Little feet Little feet is a real band.
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When we started in 1969, not to go too far into the history, but the the philosophy of the
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group has has always been surrounded by a great musicianship.
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And equal to that, when we couldn't pull it off, great music.
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So it's a it's a pretty good combination.
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And it's always been kinda loose as to who who we had playing with us, and things changed
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dramatically for us in 1972 when Paul Berger joined in Los Angeles, and we had Kenny
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Gradney, our bass player, and conga player Sam Clayton join us from the lady and Bonnie.
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So things kinda solidified at that point, and we still have that sound, which is great.
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And people can can make the leap from whatever iteration we've had of this band.
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It's not like a we're I think to some people, maybe, oh, hello.
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There is the Covert Band when but they haven't really heard us.
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You know?
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And we just recorded not only Sam's Place, but we recorded with Fans Powell down in Memphis
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excuse me, in in Nashville.
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And we got a new 13 original song record coming out next year.
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So there's a lot of lot of good stuff going on with Little Feet right now.
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I can't believe you get the cover band tag.
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Well, you know, when you got enough people together, if there's more than 10 people making
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an opinion, you're gonna hear all kinds of nonsense.
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Yeah.
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So you just have to go, okay.
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Got it.
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K.
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You sound just like that band Littlefeet from the seventies.
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Yeah.
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I I wanna say to the guys, if we played happy birthday, we would sound like Little things.
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Okay?
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Right.
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It's alright.
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Well, and that's River.
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That's what's beautiful, and I am relative I mean, I know the hits.
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Right?
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I'm familiar.
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My mom's favorite song is Willin.
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You know, obviously, you know, Dixie Doo.
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Like, people know the big songs, but I I wasn't really familiar with your discography until
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very recently when we kinda scheduled this interview.
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So I'm getting a history lesson.
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And and listening to the old records, you were uncompromising in we're going to sound you're
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not going to bend us to one way or the other.
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You're just so varied in, I'm sure, your musical influences.
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Right?
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And so and you weren't trying to make a sound as so many bands tried to do, which probably
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kept you from getting maybe commercially, you know, as big as you could have been, but the
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records speak for themselves.
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You guys made some killer music, man.
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I was listening to Gringo just before we, we jumped on.
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And the reason I picked that song is because I lived for a year in Mexico, on the run from the
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law and feeding my family, my my wife, my pregnant wife, and then son by playing music on
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the street in Tulanzingo.
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So I was El Gringo de Tulanzingo.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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Bueno, amigo.
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Yeah.
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Si.
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Gracias.
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We got some people down there that are family to us that we still keep in touch with through
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the glory of the Internet.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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And they get to watch these children and this little blonde eyed, blue eyed Mexican boy.
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Right?
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Born in Mexico, as pale as could be.
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But, yeah, I mean, we were an anomaly.
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People were looking at us like we were a unicorn.
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Right?
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And I'm out there, and I tell you what, they love them some Hotel California, Bill.
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That's great.
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I've never made so many pesos in my life, so cheers to the eagles for that one.
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Thanks, guys.
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That's right.
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I'm glad you're here.
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Listen to yeah.
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So now when I listen to the new stuff and especially Sam's Place, you guys are a kick ass
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blues band.
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Or, like, there's no denying that, and it doesn't matter what it doesn't matter what
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songs you're playing to me.
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At least, like, the blues is all the covers.
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Who cares if you didn't write that song?
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Are you giving it what it deserves, what it demands?
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Right?
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And that's what the blues is.
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And a guy that I used to play with said, you stand and deliver the blues, and it is kind of
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in that, tone that this band plays.
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Well, yeah, you do.
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And and and it's a it's a love letter to the blues as well.
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I mean, I I left out one guy that I played with, and I played with Richie Hayward and Paul
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Barrera was this fellow, and it was Willie Dixon at Madison Square Garden for a party for
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John Lee Hooker.
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So and John Lee was still alive.
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He came in with a a babe on each arm, and Bonnie was there and a bunch of folks.
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So we with that evening, we've and George Porter was our bass player and and musical
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director that night.
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But we we were back in that not only Willie Dixon, which was worth the price of admission,
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but Greg Almond, Johnny Winter, and Joe Cocker.
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So it was a hell of a night.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I bet.
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Bill, the the the sounds that your ears have heard, I wish we had a microphone inside of
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them.
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Right?
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A tiny microphone to hear all of this incredible music that you have made and been a
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part of and been surrounded by over this.
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You know?
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I mean, you've you've been in music since you were a teenager, I'm assuming.
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Yeah.
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Since age 15.
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I've been playing music since I was probably or playing piano.
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Started around four and a half, four years old, and, 75.
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So anyway, I'm writing a book called I'm writing a book called carnival ghosts, which is
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a mem my memoir to try and put that microphone in other people's heads as well.
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I mean, it's it's been a a a great journey for me and still is.
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And so I thought, well, let me you know, for if I was just to write about my session work, that
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that would be a book in itself.
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So I'm taking that that business and sort of amortizing it over a period of time, but not
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doing it sequentially.
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Just saying, hey.
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Hey.
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I'm going over to Barbara Streisand's house to to give her the keys for a new song.
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I don't remember play I did I played on a record of hers called wet, but I don't remember
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anything about it.
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Right?
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And I was talking with Fred Tackett, who's in our band, and we he's done at least as many, if
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not more sessions than I have over the years, starting with Sonny and Cher back back in the
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way back machine.
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And we we both agreed that and and you would too as a musician that it's not the gig so much
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that you remember.
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I mean, yeah, you're on the street play playing for people at that one point in Mexico.
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But what you remember are the things that surround the gig.
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Know, if somebody came up to you and and gave you a 100 pesos or $22,000 pesos and somebody
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else threatened your life.
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So, I mean, those are the things you wind up remembering.
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That's kinda the way I I I go through my my stuff.
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I think the the song I played with Brian Adams, there was a couple of them, but one was called
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everything I do I do for you, which was the song in that Robin Hood new movie with
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Yeah.
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It ended being a pretty big song, I think.
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It's a huge huge song world worldwide, and it's it's a great story about that in the book and
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followed by, you know, how Hollywood works.
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So let's let's get Brian to do another movie.
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This was the three musketeers with with steam playing bass and Rod Stewart.
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They're they're the three musketeers singing.
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So I flew over to London to do both of those.
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And but, yeah, there's a lot lot of stories, man.
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I can't wait to read the book, Bill.
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That that was the hardest, yeah, that was the hardest part for me sitting down with this.
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So, I mean, we're we're a small local podcast.
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We're mostly talking to guys that are just guys and gals, excuse me, that are just starting
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out.
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Right?
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We're just trying to capture all of our lives kind of, you know, and this is how this is how
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movements and things start.
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The beauty of the Internet has connected us, and I kinda wanna talk about that because I
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didn't realize this.
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But in your biography, it talks about how you were kind of a pioneer in the online community
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space.
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So can we kinda talk about that early nineties?
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Right?
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Yeah.
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We I didn't feel we were getting what we needed from from management.
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They had a a kind of a closed view of how to do things.
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And I thought, well, this tool, the Internet, can put you directly in touch with with people.
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You don't have to bypass business or bypass management.
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Augment it, you know, like you do with the way you learn music.
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What what you're trying to do is expand your vocabulary, essentially.
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So it wasn't a far leap to say, hey.
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If I can talk to somebody in Sydney, Australia as easily as I can somebody in Japan or Europe
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or Oxnard, California, why not make use of that and become a little more personal with it other
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than the way, say, the Grateful Dead were utilizing it, which is they knew about it, but
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they they weren't directly involved with it.
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And I thought, what would it be like if you're actually directly involved in that in in
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building a community?
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And and what happened, which we should have known, was was that people would then go, hey.
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Let's let's tag up in Minneapolis, for example, and get together at a meet together at a
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restaurant and see who the faces are on the other side of the the the screen here.
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And and a lot of lifelong friendships were made doing that in addition to people supporting
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Littlefeet.
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So it's I'm gonna be writing about that as well.
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It's a it's a wonderful question, so thank you.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you must be so proud to see a whole world full of independent musicians no
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different from myself.
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I have my own recording career.
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I release music under the name of my band Starts and Ends, and I am a huge fan of the
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Grateful Dead as, you know, pretty much every person you've named in this interview.
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It's been incredible.
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Just but we're all the same.
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I mean and you kind of alluded, like, we're musicians.
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Right?
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And you and the reason that you don't remember it is because it comes in waves.
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And sometimes that wave is a damn tsunami, and you get caught in it, and you just try to stay
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afloat.
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Right?
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And a lot of guys don't.
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Got a lot of guys and girls don't, and and this business has taken a lot of good people
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That's right.
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Because they weren't able to do that.
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And I'm in my own little wave right now, Bill.
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Nothing close to the things that you've been in, but I'm sure you experienced it in small
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levels in the early sixties, right, as you're playing music.
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And, I mean, you were in where where did you grow up, Bill?
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Where where were you when you were starting your music career?
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Well, I was in Windsor, California.
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And when my teacher died, it it coincided with when my dad had to move up to Santa Maria to
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work at Vandenberg Air Force Base.
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So he'd been to Pointe Magoo and and Ventura.
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But I joined my band when I was 15, and I auditioned to play my band as a drummer, not a
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keyboard player.
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They happen to have a keyboard set up in a room.
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I walked over there kinda standing there and playing.
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They go, wait a minute.
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You play the keyboards?
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I go, well, I guess.
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Good
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enough.
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Here we are.
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Here we are decades later.
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Wake up.
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Yeah, Bill.
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And, honestly, Bill, it's so funny that you say that because that's how this podcast happened.
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Three, four months ago, I was still working as a welder in a factory.
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And Yeah.
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I was, doing, releasing some music now.
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Right?
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So I'm doing the local news hits and growing in a small market is very good because I have
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access to all of those local news and radio and all of those things.
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There's no competition really for all of that.
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They need content too.
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Right?
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Right.
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So I I'm getting very visible.
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I just played a 3,000 seat amphitheater with Armchair Boogie who's a great Midwest, New
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Grass band.
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Right?
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And we went out there, and we held our own on our biggest stage.
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The next day I woke up, I drove to Minneapolis to go play the tiniest bars for no money and
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just to go be the small fish again and realize that if you wanna do this, you can't just be
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big at home.
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You know?
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And you're not headlining that anyway.
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Right?
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You're just happen to be there.
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So trying to take that energy and move that out and to see what comes back.
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And I'm touring a lot.
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Like I said, I'll be touring when you guys are in Sioux Falls.
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June 28, all of our listeners in the South Dakota, Sioux Falls area, make sure you go see
20:33
Little Feet then.
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But just riding my own wave and being in it, and it's it's I tried to tell people that, you
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know, I'm just trying to stay afloat because the wave is gonna end.
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Right?
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Like, eventually, settles down, and then you're trying to catch the next one.
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Right?
20:48
And to use surfing as the analogy, I think, is the easiest thing that I've found is we're just
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trying to stay on the board right now.
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And sometimes you're in that pipeline, and that wave is 600 feet tall.
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You know?
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And guys like Luke Combs or, you know, any of these giant band.
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I can't imagine what it's like to even be in a stadium.
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Right?
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Like, my vision kind of ended at that 3,000 level.
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And, I mean, you've I'm sure you've played every every stage in in the world over your
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career, but do you find that you like one kinda setting more than another for what for the
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music that you can make?
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And let's just focus on that.
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Not necessarily for, like, the energy of the crowd and everything, but, like, for the music
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you can make because it is a little bit different on a bigger stage, I'm finding out.
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Well, it is.
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But with the technology of of the in ears, which a lot of people shy away from, I use
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them, and I used them when I was working with Jimmy Buffett.
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And, we played, was it Foxborough in front of 60,000 people?
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And there wasn't any difference between that and playing, you know, smaller 3,000 seat
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venue.
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If you got the right people working it, I should say, if you have the right monitor
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engineer working it.
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So but in the old days, I would prefer playing like a theater, let's say.
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Warner Theatre, it comes to mind.
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There's a the theater down in Texas in Austin.
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The Stephen A Austin Theatre, I think it was.
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I I can't remember, but the those smaller theaters were were really a great venue.
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We played one of the Carnegie venues in Pittsburgh last night, a wonderful little
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place, and that was with Los Lobos, and and that was great.
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So but, yeah, I don't mind.
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If I'm in bigger venue or shed during the summer, it's bring it on.
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We're we're I I don't I kinda my my philosophy with it with it honestly is that I don't some
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people are like, oh, they stick their toe in the water.
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Right?
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And and it's like, no.
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I I dive in.
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I'm in there to swim, man.
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I'm I'm in there to play music.
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And I do the same thing when I'm in the studio.
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I'm not there to audition.
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I've got the gig with with, with whomever it is, with Bob Seger or or I know I'm dropping a
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lot of names, but at least I I I I work with those folks.
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And
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Well, I mean, I would assume that you would call every single one of these people friends
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of yours.
23:20
So it's not like you're just dropping their name to drop their name.
23:23
You've worked with these people.
23:24
Right?
23:24
And as musicians, right, I have a long list of people in my phone that are friends of mine
23:28
that I work with, that I don't look at any differently than you would just you guys all
23:33
rode this massive wave.
23:34
Right?
23:35
The world was so much different.
23:36
It was so much smaller back then, and I think that's what people don't understand about the
23:41
sixties and seventies and the growth that was happening and the generational the explosion of
23:46
the youth.
23:47
Right?
23:47
I don't think people now really have a history of, like, what the world was then.
23:53
Especially, like, my wife is 10 younger than me.
23:55
She's 28, and I'm looking at kids that are 18.
23:57
My kid didn't know who Elton John was when I was like, hey.
24:00
Elton John said really nice things about this guy I'm about to interview.
24:03
So I went and grabbed my record.
24:04
I went and grabbed Yellow Brick Road, I was like, this is Elton John.
24:07
I'm failing as a father if you don't sit here.
24:10
So he's up right now listening to Yellow Brick Road or Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and and
24:14
getting a musical education.
24:16
So he knows, you know, kind of the and my kids listen to good music.
24:20
Right?
24:21
Wife's a huge Nightmares country fan, so they know Jimmy Buffett and and, you know, all the
24:26
Alan Jackson and all the big stuff.
24:28
Mom loves country, and that's where we live.
24:30
I'm in South I'm in farm country in Southeast South Dakota.
24:32
You're gonna be here visiting very soon, and and you'll see it for yourself.
24:37
And, yeah, like you said, it it's it doesn't matter what where the stage is and how many
24:43
people it's in front of.
24:44
When you really lock in with your with your people and with your band and having a great
24:49
monitor set up to that, right, is so key just from a from a professional musician standpoint.
24:55
And that's getting comfortable with the in ears is something that I'm still working on.
24:59
I would I'm a barroom strummer.
25:00
You know?
25:02
Mhmm.
25:02
And just kinda starting to put more of my original songs that I've written over the last
25:06
twenty years and putting them out and releasing them on the Spotify and simultaneously starting
25:12
to have these amazing conversations with other musicians and artists that have these amazing
25:17
stories to share on this podcast.
25:19
So it's, yeah, it's a really it's a really cool thing that I've that I've fallen into.
25:25
And, yeah, next thing you know, you're talking with Bill Payne and, you know, his new album,
25:31
where Bonnie Raitt is a is a guest performer.
25:36
And you guys have a long history together.
25:38
Correct?
25:40
We do.
25:42
I never thought I met Bonnie at a particular time, and I must have met her earlier because
25:46
she's in one of my, I I start compiling notebooks or data glance books in 1973.
25:55
Bonnie's one of the names in it, so I guess I met her back then in LA.
26:00
But I want to share something with you too.
26:05
When is '19 actually 1974 I think we were over in Europe playing the Rolling Sons came to hear
26:15
us in Jop Eaton Hall which is just outside of Amsterdam.
26:20
And that was kind of intimidating, but we, you know, we we played and, you know, you're
26:25
looking over and looking at Jagger and Keith Richards and whatnot.
26:28
But in the dressing room afterwards, I go down there and and it's Keith Keith they're all
26:33
there, but I walked oh, Keith.
26:35
Keith.
26:35
And he grabs me.
26:37
He pulls me.
26:37
He goes, oh, mate.
26:38
We're all part of the same cloth.
26:41
In other words, welcome to the club, Bill.
26:43
And I just you know, I read his biography, and he he was in a dressing room with little
26:49
Richard and, I think Muddy Waters and those guys.
26:52
And he said, man, those are the cats.
26:54
I must be one of the cats too because I'm down there.
26:57
And that's really what he was sharing with me.
26:59
You're in this club.
27:01
As Gretchen Mark said, you know, I never joined a club that would accept me as a member, but
27:07
but you and I, man, we are we are in the same club with each other.
27:10
It doesn't matter where we've played or whether we've played worldwide or where we're local
27:16
within a certain area.
27:18
We're experiencing the same things on that level of being a musician, and that's the club
27:24
we belong to.
27:24
And I I like to share that with with other musicians because it's again, most of us
27:32
wouldn't wouldn't care to be a part of something of that, but in fact, we're we're a
27:37
part of a rather exclusive thing, and we ought to embrace it.
27:41
Indeed.
27:41
And that's really, I appreciate you saying that for me and and all of our listeners.
27:46
A lot of our listeners right now are the same people that are being interviewed, and other
27:50
fans of theirs are the bands.
27:52
Like, we're kind of just like our only fans right now, and our little fan bases are
27:56
growing, and and we're all looking.
27:59
So we have our Midwest country music organization, which is a, it kinda spans
28:04
through the Dakotas and mostly from the Minneapolis area down into Iowa.
28:08
And just a organization of us.
28:10
Right?
28:10
A club to belong to, but a nice little network that, we're able to form.
28:15
And, I think it's so validating for our young people to hear it from someone like you and
28:20
especially people from a small area like South Dakota where just we you don't have
28:26
interactions with people who you feel like would validate you.
28:30
Right?
28:31
So you saying that on this podcast is going to touch so many lives, and I'm so happy that you
28:37
took the time to share that.
28:38
And and thank you, Bill, because it's gonna mean a lot to not just myself, but but to a lot
28:42
of other people as well that are out there.
28:44
Maybe just learning to play an instrument.
28:46
Right?
28:47
Sure.
28:48
Well, learning an instrument is, that's the other thing.
28:54
From a long time of playing, I mean, I studied classical music as a kid but I had a teacher
28:59
who said to my mother, I'll make sure Bill knows how to play music, read music, but let's
29:04
let's not take the magic out of it for him.
29:06
So, I was able to play by ear as well.
29:09
And what I would say is that while you're learning your instrument, there's a a few
29:15
different paths.
29:15
You don't have to read music to to play obviously, and I I don't even recommend that
29:19
you try reading music.
29:21
But like John Coltrane used to do, learn learn a few scales.
29:26
You know?
29:26
They don't have to be anything exotic.
29:29
But know where you are in your instrument.
29:30
So if you're in the key of d, you got two sharps that's contend with.
29:33
If you're in a, you got I think it's three.
29:38
But know know where you are on your instrument with with things.
29:42
So when you're you're playing, I I I who's it?
29:47
Not Bill Gates, but the other Paul Allen.
29:50
We played his birthday party up in Juneau Juneau, Alaska.
29:54
And he was gonna sit in with us, and we're it's the soundcheck, and he was kinda getting
30:00
nervous about it.
30:01
And I looked at him before we got up on set.
30:03
I said, you know how to play in the key of eight, don't you?
30:06
Because we we we wanted to sit in on Dixie Chicken.
30:08
He goes, yeah.
30:09
I go, well, bring your bleeping guitar, and let's get up there and play some music.
30:13
Yeah.
30:14
Yeah.
30:14
And it's because what we did.
30:15
Yeah.
30:16
It's not like Dixie Chicken is a super complicated song if you know how to play music.
30:20
Right.
30:21
And that's what people don't realize.
30:22
They're like, oh my god.
30:23
I could never figure it out.
30:25
Right?
30:25
And I was so blessed that I had really great I had really great mentors.
30:29
So I came up probably about the same age I picked up.
30:31
So I played drums in grade concert band.
30:34
So I kinda got the concert band level, played that all the way through grade, loved marching
30:39
band.
30:39
I love playing in the marching band and and rapping the snare cadences and just really
30:44
loved that rhythm part of it.
30:45
Right?
30:46
Played bass and jazz band in grade and probably would have stuck with bass, really enjoyed it,
30:51
but the bass that the school had was one of those PV solid oak ones that weighed, like, 30
30:57
pounds, and I weighed all of, like, a buck ten maybe.
31:00
Right?
31:01
So Mhmm.
31:02
It was a little disproportion.
31:03
I was like, this sucks, man.
31:05
Who would ever want to do who would ever wanna do this?
31:08
And so I picked up the guitar the next year.
31:10
My dad and my uncle both play guitar.
31:13
My uncle Bill actually, has a beautiful, Gibson Dove from the sixties, that he still has at
31:20
home.
31:20
And so I grew up with guitars around me.
31:23
And so when I finally landed with one in my hand, what it really unlocked with me was I was
31:27
already writing words.
31:28
Words were coming easy to me.
31:30
That wasn't everything.
31:31
I had things to say, Bill.
31:33
So Yeah.
31:34
That's the
31:34
same between the guitar and the songwriting aspect is where it just kinda locked in.
31:41
And, I mean, I started writing songs almost immediately, and I don't read music.
31:45
My dad handed me a Mel Bay chord book from the fifties that he learned on, and it was like,
31:50
learn e a and b.
31:51
Let's rock some deep l and blues.
31:54
That's right.
31:55
And we were off and running.
31:55
I I I mean, the Grateful Dead really taught me music because I was learning all of these songs
32:01
that I grew up with that I absolutely loved.
32:03
Right?
32:03
And I think you gotta kinda start with the songs that you like.
32:07
You can't just you can't be learning just kinda silly songs once you've gotten to a point.
32:12
Right?
32:12
I I think to get that passion, you you really play these songs that you're passionate about.
32:18
So I was playing these Grateful Dead songs and getting introduced to all of these different
32:21
chords and these different patterns and the way that they played and, yeah, having a deep root
32:28
in the love of blues and being able to hit a one four five and the attitude of the blues of
32:34
get your fucking guitar and let's go.
32:37
You know?
32:37
Yeah.
32:38
So, yeah, shout out to
32:39
I I had the pleasure of writing 20 songs with Robert Hunter.
32:44
And So I mean, that's that's probably my favorite song.
32:47
I mean, nobody spoke to my heart more than Robert Hunter.
32:50
Right?
32:50
And and has gotten me through more in my life and those songs that I'm attached to.
32:55
So, yeah, forgive me for almost driving off the road when I saw the email come in that,
33:01
Littlefeet was interested in doing an interview.
33:06
Oh, man.
33:06
This is good.
33:07
Yeah.
33:07
You know, the thing was Robert Hunter too just to to to guide that that just a little longer
33:12
on this on on his subject.
33:14
We started off with him just sending me lyrics, right?
33:18
Which was fine and then he goes, probably three or four songs.
33:22
And he goes, why don't you just send me some music and I'll I'll we'll we'll reverse it.
33:27
And I go, okay.
33:28
So we we did that for a while.
33:29
I mean, it was but at one point, I I don't know.
33:34
15 songs into it, I said, you know, man, the because I never met the guy.
33:40
I never talked to him on the phone.
33:41
We did everything by just Internet.
33:44
Internet and email.
33:45
And I just it was it was incredible, actually, but and they're complicated songs.
33:50
I mean, but but he I I said, look, Robert.
33:54
The the the music is in the lyrics.
33:59
That was my compliment to him.
34:00
And his compliment to me was, yeah, but it takes a composer to draw him out.
34:04
And but we we had a a a really, really good relationship, and I was, you know, obviously,
34:14
very, very knowledgeable about what he had written with with Jerry Garcia and some with
34:19
Bob Ware until till Ware started getting involved with his lyrics, which he didn't like.
34:23
So, you know, ban stuff.
34:27
Right?
34:28
Yeah.
34:28
Yeah.
34:29
And that's what it is.
34:30
I I am, you know, not immune to being sensitive about things.
34:34
Right?
34:35
I can chop my socks up all I want to, but don't you dare come at me with a pair of scissors.
34:40
Right?
34:41
And sometimes I come around to my senses.
34:43
Right?
34:43
We're all we're all human.
34:44
Right?
34:45
And what a blessed life that you've lived to touch all of these beautiful humans that have
34:49
just made incredible music.
34:51
And I hope through this podcast that you're able to connect with a whole other generation
34:57
of younger musicians and to give them the validation because we don't have many of you
35:02
left that that lived that world.
35:05
So I really hope the book comes out.
35:08
If you ever wanna record more conversations about it, I would I would love to talk on you.
35:12
It's an absolute pleasure.
35:14
I know that you are you are touring and that I'm sure you have a busy day.
35:18
Are are you playing tonight anywhere?
35:21
We are.
35:21
We are in Cincinnati where this whole shebang started in 1970.
35:29
We're at a place called the Reflections Club.
35:33
And Richie Hayward, by the way, our drummer back then, god rest his soul, he was from Iowa,
35:38
but he lived when he moved out to California, he he was in ensconced by Californian.
35:44
Kooky kooky, lend me your comb.
35:47
Ed Burns from the seventy seven Sunset Strip.
35:51
People can look that up.
35:52
But he he got frustrated one night about because we played this place two times, and we
36:02
the night was at Christmas Eve.
36:05
And or excuse me, Christmas day.
36:08
But the place was packed with people singing football songs, Ohio football songs.
36:12
Of course.
36:13
And they weren't listening to us.
36:15
So he he came up to Law and I on the 12/26/2025 1970.
36:20
He said, can I introduce the band?
36:22
And we go, yeah, go ahead, I guess.
36:25
So he goes up there.
36:26
He has a sausage in his pants.
36:29
He takes it out, cuts the tip of it off, and takes a bite.
36:33
He goes, ladies and gentlemen, little feet and no response whatsoever.
36:39
Right?
36:40
Goes back to the drums.
36:41
One, two, three, and some expletive and runs launches off into the song.
36:47
What we didn't realize was that there was five probably about five or six people that were
36:52
there that were integrated into Little Feats fabric over the years that did see it.
36:59
Craig Fuller was one of them that later joined us on Let It Roll 40 later or whatever it was.
37:07
Some of the guys from Showco were there.
37:09
A couple guys that work with Warners were there, and on and on.
37:13
It was like kind of a a Dickinson tale unraveling because we didn't think anybody saw
37:19
it.
37:19
So, it was cool.
37:21
Cool stuff.
37:21
Right.
37:21
And I think that's almost why you have to and maybe the blues kind of ingrain this in me too
37:26
that you have to attack every single show as if it is your and simultaneously your last show.
37:34
Right?
37:35
Like, this is your shot, and every show needs to be that.
37:38
Not just like, oh, I'm looking at this one moment.
37:40
I'm looking at these big oh, I have to be on this stage.
37:42
I know every single time is your moment, and you have to deliver in all of the small moments
37:49
to get a shot at the big moments.
37:51
Right?
37:52
You you're creating that energy.
37:54
And this this show that you played to a packed house that couldn't care less about you, right,
37:59
has five people inside of it that end up being, you know, the fabric of the history of
38:06
Littlefeet.
38:07
You know?
38:07
And that's I think that's important for our our young listeners and our young artists to to
38:14
realize and listeners of this show is that, like, I I tell our people close to us all the
38:18
time, we are in it right now.
38:20
Right?
38:20
Like, everyone needs to just keep doing what you're doing, and I think we're growing and
38:24
we're getting somewhere.
38:25
Right?
38:25
And and conversations like this are that kind of validation that we need that, yeah, you are
38:30
reaching out and you are part of the club and, like, just just keep doing what you're doing,
38:34
and we'll see you on the road.
38:35
You know?
38:36
We'll catch you at the next show.
38:37
So I love it.
38:38
This has been, an amazing conversation.
38:41
If I start to talk about Bonnie Raitt, we I would keep you on here for three hours, and I
38:46
don't wanna do that today.
38:47
But I would love to.
38:48
I don't need a commitment on a date, but I would love to have you on again in the future
38:51
for what we call a Sunday conversation, which is where we have a little bit more time to to
38:56
to go in a little bit deeper.
38:58
Right?
38:58
And not kinda confine ourselves to a, you know, thirty to forty five minute format.
39:03
So
39:04
Sounds good, man.
39:05
Thanks so much.
39:06
Bill, it's been an absolute pleasure.
39:08
I hope that, our young artists glean a lot of, wisdom from from someone who's seen it, done it
39:15
all, played with everybody.
39:16
And, yeah, I really appreciate your time.
39:19
I know you have a busy day, so we'll let you go.
39:21
Is there any dates other than, I guess, June 28, obviously, in Sioux Falls for our
39:26
listeners?
39:26
But is there any other dates on the tour calendar you wanna plug?
39:31
Oh, man.
39:32
Well, that's a
39:34
That's a publicist job.
39:35
The the the easiest way to plug it is just go to littlefeet.net and and check out where where
39:42
we're going.
39:43
I I'm like a lot of musicians.
39:45
I mean, I I don't I know where I am going for, like, the next couple days, but where where
39:51
where was I three days ago?
39:53
Sometimes I don't remember.
39:55
And this this schedule that we're on, I mean, I'm we're, like, booked into there's a Cayamo
40:01
cruise next year.
40:03
I think it's in February, maybe March, and so we're booked a long way out.
40:10
We're now we're looking at playing the Byron Bay Festival perhaps in Australia that I played
40:15
two or three times anyway, and I've been to Australia 10 times.
40:18
So life is a a warp speed.
40:21
It's like, you know, Star Trek.
40:23
Let's jump in the spaceship and go.
40:26
And so, yeah, I don't know where the hell we're going.
40:29
Amazing.
40:29
That's amazing.
40:30
And I hope that we all get to experience that in our lives and and just to be just to be
40:36
swimming in it.
40:37
Right?
40:37
And it's been such a powerful year that it's hard to believe that you're not.
40:41
Right?
40:42
And when we speak to people, they they believe it.
40:45
And, yeah, there's a lot of belief going on right now, and I'm I'm really looking forward
40:48
to, yeah, the next ten years.
40:50
And I'm so happy for you guys to still be able to tour and to share your music after, you
40:55
know, fifty years as a band.
40:57
And congratulations on a half a century of making music as Littlefeet.
41:02
That's incredible, Bill.
41:04
Yeah.
41:04
No.
41:04
I I kinda stop and pinch myself.
41:06
And and look.
41:08
I mean, it's it's we we have the tools we have are are instruments, the what what our
41:15
influences are.
41:16
Right?
41:18
What we share with people are either other people's songs or hopefully our songs as well.
41:23
And as you said it, when you were talking about your songwriting and your propensity with with
41:29
lyrics, you you you do it because you you have something to say, and that's that's the other
41:34
part of being an artist is is really what is it you wanna contribute to the to the conversation
41:40
out there?
41:41
And, it can be a little, intimidating when I mean, Brahms going back in the classical
41:47
history, Brahms heard the what he called the footsteps of giants and who he heard were
41:52
Mozart, Bach, Haydn, and I think I mentioned Beethoven.
41:59
But so what we hear are Bob Dylan.
42:02
We we, you know, we hear Reverend Jack Elliott.
42:06
We we we hear the the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, on and on and on.
42:11
Jackson Brown's gotta get a shout on this show.
42:13
I know you guys work together.
42:14
Jackson's in my book, man because I I played on his what would have been what was his album
42:21
called?
42:22
But it was a one before late for this guy.
42:24
But I played on that record.
42:26
I actually got Jackson to play piano because he was trying to get me to play like him and I go,
42:32
play me this song, would you?
42:33
And so he did.
42:34
I go, is there any earthly reason you're getting you're wasting my time and your money
42:38
to get me to play like you?
42:40
You play it.
42:40
Yeah.
42:41
Can we just sit on that for just one second?
42:44
Is it a I mean, like you said, it's absurd.
42:46
You're talking to Jackson Brown.
42:47
Like, know, like, why are you paying me to play piano on your stuff?
42:52
Is there were you intimidated in that moment to, like, no, dude?
42:55
No.
42:56
Not at all.
42:56
I mean
42:57
Right.
42:57
I I wanted Jackson because he used to hang out with Lowell and and me at Lowell's house.
43:03
So we knew each other, But I thought, no.
43:06
Let him play.
43:07
I already played piano on one other track.
43:09
So this is some some other thing he wanted me to play on.
43:13
So I said, in the future, if you want me to play on one of your albums, I'll take
43:18
direction, but I wanna put myself into it as well.
43:21
So, late for the sky came up.
43:23
I didn't play on that, but the next album following late for the sky was the pretender.
43:31
So I played on probably three or four tracks on that record, and, one of them was here come
43:36
those cheers again.
43:37
So I got a chance to put my 2¢ in, which was was great.
43:41
I Jackson and go back a long, long way, man.
43:45
Yeah.
43:45
That's incredible.
43:46
Right.
43:46
Yeah.
43:46
I I talk about him because he's, he's one of my heroes.
43:49
Right?
43:50
That's that's the vision I have at Jackson Brown.
43:52
He's your buddy.
43:53
Yep.
43:54
Yeah.
43:55
You know?
43:56
And that's where, you know, I it was so cool to, like I said, to to get the email and to
44:01
have a have an opportunity to just have a conversation, right, and to capture it for the
44:06
archives and to have this out there now.
44:07
And so people remember all this great music.
44:10
Like, I feel like there's so much coming out now, and we're inundated with so much so much
44:16
music that doesn't have any soul in it anymore.
44:18
Right?
44:19
I I know we're getting AI generated stuff in pop music.
44:22
Like, there's just no what I'm about is creating community and making great music with
44:27
with people.
44:28
Right?
44:28
I don't mind electronic instruments or electronic production or any of that stuff.
44:32
Right?
44:32
But I I, like, I don't need the computer to make it all for me and and feed me, you know,
44:37
what it thinks that I that I would want.
44:39
Like, that's not music to me.
44:41
So we're in a very precarious time too in music.
44:45
So capturing this and touching on the last bit of the analog world, right, and being able to
44:52
share this was great, Bill.
44:53
I really appreciate it.
44:55
Yeah.
44:55
Well, listen, man.
44:56
Have a great day.
44:58
Everybody out there, crack on as they say, and, I'll do the same here.
45:02
I really appreciate talking to you.
45:03
It was a great conversation.
45:05
Excellent.
45:05
And for everyone else, this has been the scene.
45:10
Find us on Spotify, YouTube, or at listen.t0/thescene.
45:18
Follow us on all your social media channels and make yourself part of the scene.
45:26
The scene has a special shout out for these following sponsors.
45:31
Kathmandu Campground in Sturgis, South Dakota, featuring the finest accommodations for family
45:37
fun.
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Dry cabin and tent camping or bring the RV to one of their over 150 pull through RV sites.
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Go to catmanducampground.com to book your trip today.
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And be sure to book early for the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, the first weekend in August.
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That's Kathmandu Campground in Sturgis, South Dakota off Exit 34 I 90.
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Go to catmanducampground.com to book your trip today.
46:05
A special thank you to J Rick Music on 40 First Street in Sioux Falls.
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Sponsors of the songwriter showcase at Monks Ale House, 420 East Eighth Street in downtown
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Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
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Remember to support all of our sponsors and tell them that you heard it on the scene.
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Thanks for tuning in to the same projects podcast network.
47:18
We appreciate you listening.
47:20
You can find more at thesameprojects.com.
47:23
Join our community.