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Mom Finds Little Teen Girl in Bathtub Stabbed Dead, Still in PJs · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greese.
0:14
Speaker 2: All as cheerleader, Mom's best friend. Mom just moves to
0:25
Speaker 2: another state for a new job, supporting her sixteen year
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Speaker 2: old daughter all on her own. She gets so much
0:36
Speaker 2: like my mom and dad did and is gone from
0:39
Speaker 2: the house at six a m. For this new job
0:42
Speaker 2: and renewable energy. I think it was. She wakes her
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Speaker 2: teen girl up, Lizabeth before she goes to work to
0:50
Speaker 2: make sure she's up and about because she's got a
0:52
Speaker 2: really big day. She's cheerleader and she's going to cheer
0:57
Speaker 2: or be in a group of cheerleaders, a dance or
1:01
Speaker 2: a cheer and a big Christmas parade. So it's a
1:05
Speaker 2: big day. So Mom wakes Lizabeth up and heads to work,
1:11
Speaker 2: works all day long, flies to the Christmas parade to
1:16
Speaker 2: see her daughter. She sees cheerleaders go by, and she
1:20
Speaker 2: doesn't see Lizabeth. Finds out no one else has heard
1:25
Speaker 2: from Lizabeth since that morning. At seven point thirty am
1:32
Speaker 2: flies home. Her daughter, the a student, the cheerleader, already
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Speaker 2: got it all mapped out to go to nursing school,
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Speaker 2: is in her pjs in the bathtub dead. I really
1:53
Speaker 2: don't even know how to go past that, because all
1:57
Speaker 2: I can think about are my two sixteen year old twins.
2:02
Speaker 2: But for Elizabeth's sake and for her mother's sake, We're
2:07
Speaker 2: going to move forward. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
2:11
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
2:14
Speaker 2: and on Serious XEM one eleven. How did this whole
2:18
Speaker 2: thing occur? Listen to our friend John Linley.
2:23
Speaker 3: As Jacqueline Medina leaves for work at six am, she
2:27
Speaker 3: wakes her daughter. She has plans too. The cheerleading squad
2:30
Speaker 3: is meeting at Edna High School for practice ahead of
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Speaker 3: the Christmas parade planned for the afternoon. Jacqueline Medina arrives
2:38
Speaker 3: at the parade, excited to see her daughter perform, but
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Speaker 3: Elizabeth is not. With the rest of the cheerleaders in
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Speaker 3: the parade, friends confirmed they hadn't seen Elizabeth in the
2:48
Speaker 3: parade either.
2:49
Speaker 2: Let's just stop right there with man all star panel
2:53
Speaker 2: including Elaine Ardiaz, joining us out of this jurisdiction in
2:58
Speaker 2: Texas Senior Crime Report at the Messenger. But first I
3:02
Speaker 2: want to go to renowned as psychologist, TV radio trauma
3:07
Speaker 2: expert Karen Start. She's at Karenstark dot com. That's Karen
3:11
Speaker 2: with the c Karen That's just making my chest hurt
3:16
Speaker 2: because I'm imagining that moment that you're looking out and
3:20
Speaker 2: you see the parade and then you see the cheerleaders
3:24
Speaker 2: and you look and your daughter's not with the cheerleaders.
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Speaker 2: That's all she's been talking about for a week, is
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Speaker 2: being in this Christmas parade and she's not there.
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Speaker 4: It's such an awful story, ante because this mother is
3:39
Speaker 4: so close to her daughter. She was very young when
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Speaker 4: she had her, and she's just waiting for her daughter
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Speaker 4: to come along. Everything is about her child, So we
3:52
Speaker 4: know that kind of attachment and what it means when
3:56
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you think, Wow, what happened to her?
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Speaker 2: And the end, you know, asking everybody in the stands,
4:01
Speaker 2: whoa do you see? Have you seen Liz? Have you
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Speaker 2: seen Lizabeth? And none of the moms has seen her,
4:06
Speaker 2: and then she goes down to the cheerleaders. They haven't
4:08
Speaker 2: seen her. You know. It's reminded me when I got
4:13
Speaker 2: a call in New York that my dad had to
4:15
Speaker 2: go in the hospital and I moved Heaven and Earth
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Speaker 2: was out in the street at midnight with the children
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Speaker 2: trying to get a cab to get to an airport
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Speaker 2: that frantic searching that trying to get to the person
4:31
Speaker 2: you love. Joining me Elaine Ardias out of San Antonio,
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Speaker 2: Senior crime reporter at the Messenger, and you can find
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Speaker 2: her at the Messenger dot com. Elaine, thank you for
4:40
Speaker 2: being with us. Tell me about Edna. It's about just
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Speaker 2: under six thousand people population and this high school and
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Speaker 2: this parade. What was happening that morning that morning.
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Speaker 5: I mean, it's just a town like Edna.
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Speaker 6: That's the place where everyone is going to be at
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Speaker 6: the parade. So that is all anyone is talking about,
5:05
Speaker 6: from parents, family members, the kids at school, they're probably
5:10
Speaker 6: getting out of school early.
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Speaker 5: I mean, I am from Texas. I know these towns
5:16
Speaker 5: and it.
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Speaker 6: Is what they are preparing for. And so of course
5:20
Speaker 6: even at school, everyone was at school. They're probably wearing
5:23
Speaker 6: their cheerleader outfits, you know.
5:26
Speaker 5: Foot because the big football game.
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Speaker 6: Was going to be happening that week Edna High School.
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Speaker 6: We're entering the semi finals and if you know Texas,
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Speaker 6: you know we love football. So this is like that
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Speaker 6: is just what the entire town was talking about and
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Speaker 6: getting ready for.
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Speaker 2: I'm trying to imagine the same the big Christmas parade
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Speaker 2: Lizbeth being in the mom being so proud. I mean,
5:52
Speaker 2: Chris mcdona is joining me direct from the Cold Case Foundation,
5:55
Speaker 2: former homicide detective, and you can find him at Colecasefoundation
5:59
Speaker 2: dot com. Or I didn't find him there. I found
6:02
Speaker 2: him during the Coburger trial because I hadn't gotten to
6:05
Speaker 2: the scene yet, and I found him online in a
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Speaker 2: car driving I don't know, two miles an hour all
6:15
Speaker 2: around the crime scene, I would say three or four
6:18
Speaker 2: miles outside of it, driving and pointing things out. I
6:21
Speaker 2: felt like I was in the car and it really
6:25
Speaker 2: gave me an incredible framework of what was happening and
6:29
Speaker 2: to layout geographically until I could get out there myself.
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Speaker 2: That's how I found Chris mcdonna. You know, Chris mcdonna,
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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about you have children, thinking about how
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Speaker 2: I don't know how to make this sound right. Not
6:48
Speaker 2: in a bad way, but you kind of lived through
6:50
Speaker 2: your children. But what I mean, not in a weird
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Speaker 2: way like a stage mom. But their triumphs are your triumphs.
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Speaker 2: When they do well, man, when the twins do well,
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Speaker 2: I'm on top of the world. When Lucy gets a
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Speaker 2: good grade, or John David made the jav basketball team.
7:06
Speaker 2: I want to just do a flip in the front yard.
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Speaker 2: And when they're hurting, I'm just devastated. And I'm just
7:14
Speaker 2: imagining this mom. She's so happy Lizabeth is making these
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Speaker 2: great grades. She's already planned her college. I think it's
7:23
Speaker 2: Arlington University. Isn't that the one she wanted to go to, Elaine, Yes,
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Speaker 2: that's the one to study nursing. I mean it just
7:31
Speaker 2: the mom is a single mom, and she's devoted her
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Speaker 2: life to rearing, to bringing up Lizabeth, and just don't
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Speaker 2: you know how happy she was sitting up in those
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Speaker 2: stands saying her daughter help lead the Christmas parade for Pete's.
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Speaker 7: Sake, and Nancy, I mean dreams, pride, love, And then
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Speaker 7: it quickly turns into panic, every parent's worst nightmare. Where
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Speaker 7: is my daughter? Where is my daughter? And then I
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Speaker 7: can only imagine, you know what she was experiencing, the
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Speaker 7: poor family mom, specifically when she immediately got to her
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Speaker 7: house that apartment, opened that door, and could could sense well, wait.
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Speaker 2: A minute, there's another twist to this, Chris, I was
8:19
Speaker 2: thinking about the timeline. Let me get this from Elaine
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Speaker 2: Ardias and joining me also is Nicole de Bord Potch
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Speaker 2: Globe high profile lawyer out of this jurisdiction in Texas,
8:30
Speaker 2: former prosecutor. You can find her at Houston Criminal Defense
8:33
Speaker 2: dot com. And doctor Todd Barr Board certified anatomic clinical
8:39
Speaker 2: forensic Pathologists featured in Thin Places Essays from in Between
8:44
Speaker 2: Elaine Ardias. Now, after work, did the mom go home
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Speaker 2: to change clothes? She did?
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Speaker 8: She was on all so.
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Speaker 6: I mean, she was on a construction site and she
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Speaker 6: worked in renewable energy.
9:00
Speaker 5: It's the Houston area.
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Speaker 8: I'm sure half.
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Speaker 6: The town does. And you know she went home, but again,
9:08
Speaker 6: she's thinking about the parade.
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Speaker 5: She runs in, she changes.
9:13
Speaker 6: Grabs, you know whatever, and runs out to get to
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Speaker 6: the parade, and you know it was in and out.
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Speaker 6: She wasn't and why would she think that her daughter
9:25
Speaker 6: was in there?
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Speaker 2: So bottom line, I've been nice to her. When she
9:29
Speaker 2: runs in after work to change clothes, her daughter is
9:35
Speaker 2: already dead in the bathtub with the shower curtain pulled,
9:40
Speaker 2: and she doesn't know it. No. I was thinking about
9:43
Speaker 2: this timeline and I realized, when mom goes home to
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Speaker 2: change to look good in front of all of her
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Speaker 2: daughter's friends, her daughter is on the other side of
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Speaker 2: the Wall.
9:53
Speaker 1: Dead Time Stories with Nancy Grace.
10:09
Speaker 2: Doctor Todd Barr joining US renown pathologist Dodger Bar. How
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Speaker 2: can you tell how long someone has been dead?
10:19
Speaker 9: So there's several waves of checking the time of death
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Speaker 9: and what we use. We rely on rigor mortifs, which
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Speaker 9: is the siffening of the muscles that occurs after death
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Speaker 9: that usually sets in between six to eight hours. In
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Speaker 9: the post mortem interval, becomes very firm for about twenty
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Speaker 9: four to thirty six hours and then starts to go
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Speaker 9: away after that time, so it breaks down. So there's
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Speaker 9: sort of like in the initial interim after death, the
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Speaker 9: body is still loose and placid, and then the muscles
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Speaker 9: start to tighten up after about six to eight hour
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Speaker 9: and going to full rigor mortis for about twenty four
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Speaker 9: hours and then it wanes. At the other end, the
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Speaker 9: other thing is lividity, which is the pooling of the
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Speaker 9: blood in the postmartum setting. Once someone passes, the blood
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Speaker 9: starts to leak out of the blood vessels and settles
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Speaker 9: towards gravity. So if they're lying on their back, you'll
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Speaker 9: get this sort of discoloration that occurs in the skin
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Speaker 9: in the lower part of the body. That's closest to
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Speaker 9: where gravity would be pulling in the case if they're
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Speaker 9: on their back would be you know, on their back side,
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Speaker 9: except where there's pressure and lividity becomes sort of pink
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Speaker 9: and purple, and if you can push on it and
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Speaker 9: it blanches out. That's a relatively new time of death.
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Speaker 9: I would say within the first six hours. After about
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Speaker 9: six hours that liviidity fixes itself and if you were
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Speaker 9: to roll somebody over, that lividity would not move. If
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Speaker 9: it was if somebody was moved in the early stages
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Speaker 9: of death, that lividity would then shift to the new position.
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Speaker 9: So if somebody had been dead for say six to
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Speaker 9: eight hours in one position and then rolled, that lividity
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Speaker 9: would not change. It would be fixed. So that's one
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Speaker 9: of the things that when we go to crime scenes.
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Speaker 9: If you see somebody that's on their face like face down,
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Speaker 9: but the lividity is on the back side of the.
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Speaker 7: Body, we know that that body's been moved.
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Speaker 9: So those are are several of the ways that we
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Speaker 9: can determine time of death and how long a body
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Speaker 9: has been dead. Along with temperature, there's a called algamortis,
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Speaker 9: which is the temperature of the body, depending on the
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Speaker 9: environment that they're in that temperature. Will the temperature of
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Speaker 9: the body will decrease by a certain amount per hour
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Speaker 9: depending on the temperature of the environments that they're in.
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Speaker 2: Will the victim's body stabilize at the ambiance temperature?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, yes it will.
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Speaker 2: And back to rigor. You stated that I speaking with
13:13
Speaker 2: doctor Todd Barr. Everybody on the panel jumping if you've
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Speaker 2: got a question for him. Doctor Barr, you stated that rigor,
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Speaker 2: the stiffening of the limbs starts to set in. Did
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Speaker 2: you say after about six hours?
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Speaker 9: Yeah, it's generally about six to eight hours. I mean,
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Speaker 9: there are there are definitely environmental settings that change that.
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Speaker 9: If someone's in a very cold environment, or someone's in
13:38
Speaker 9: a very warm environment, it can accelerate or de accelerate
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Speaker 9: the the sifting of the muscles and the lividity. But
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Speaker 9: if someone is in a a regular setting, you know,
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Speaker 9: seventy to seventy five degree room, they're not in a
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Speaker 9: you know, overly hot environment, the process goes, you know,
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Speaker 9: pretty much in a standard format.
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Speaker 2: I want to go back to rigor. It sets sin
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Speaker 2: between six and eight hours. And then did you say
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Speaker 2: the victim will remain in rigor or the body stiff
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Speaker 2: until about twenty four hours, and then the body loosens up.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, so after about twenty four hours, the bodies start,
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Speaker 9: you know, with the decomposition process. The bonds that hold
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Speaker 9: that riger together start to break, and so the riger
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Speaker 9: loosens up.
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Speaker 2: What bond, what bond holds it together there.
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Speaker 9: So it's kind of a complicated chemical process that the
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Speaker 9: muscles go through.
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Speaker 2: Just dummy down for me, the chemical process the muscles
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Speaker 2: go through.
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Speaker 9: Yeah, So what happens is there are bonds that the muscles,
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Speaker 9: the cells of the muscles make, and the energy that
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Speaker 9: it takes to create those bonds break down over time.
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Speaker 9: It's just like anything else that just as time goes on,
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Speaker 9: things just start to break down. So riger occurs and
15:09
Speaker 9: is pretty well in its at the height within about
15:14
Speaker 9: eight to twenty four hours, and then after that, just
15:17
Speaker 9: the normal process, those bonds just start to wear off
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Speaker 9: and break out, so the munks loosen up again.
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Speaker 2: Now I realized I'm asking a lot of questions about
15:28
Speaker 2: how a body behaves and how you can time a
15:32
Speaker 2: time of death, because it's very critical in this case,
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Speaker 2: very critical. Indeed, I wanted to ask you about the
15:40
Speaker 2: algamortis translation the temperature of the body. You state that
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Speaker 2: you can tell if the body is reached beyond temperature
15:53
Speaker 2: in the room question. So often people see on TV
15:58
Speaker 2: and in movies that the victim's temperature is actually taken
16:03
Speaker 2: in the armpit or some other way or some other
16:07
Speaker 2: part of the body. Is that real? Does that really happen?
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Speaker 9: In my experience, we did not rely heavily on the
16:17
Speaker 9: algamortives the temperature A lot of times. What people will
16:22
Speaker 9: do in the old days, I didn't see this in
16:26
Speaker 9: my career, but they would make an incision and stick
16:29
Speaker 9: the thermometer into the liver tissue so to get like
16:34
Speaker 9: a core temperature.
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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm just absorbing what you just said. In
16:39
Speaker 2: the old days, they make an incision in the body
16:41
Speaker 2: and place a thermometer into the liver to determine what body.
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Speaker 9: Tip the core temperature. Yes, a lot of times in
16:52
Speaker 9: the current the way we do it now, most people
16:55
Speaker 9: either put it under the armpit or they'll take a
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Speaker 9: rectal temperature. What they want to do is get as
17:01
Speaker 9: close to the core temperature, which is the internal temperature.
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Speaker 9: So you know, you can't really do like an oral
17:08
Speaker 9: temperature from the mouth because it's too far away from
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Speaker 9: the core. Armpits are kind of too far away from
17:13
Speaker 9: the core rectal temperature.
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Speaker 2: And why do you need the core timp of the body.
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Speaker 9: Because that will that will tell you where the actual
17:20
Speaker 9: temperature of the body is. That you know, when you
17:23
Speaker 9: go out and you are out in the snow thing
17:25
Speaker 9: in the winter time, your fingers get really cold, so
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Speaker 9: you can't really rely on the temperature of the extremities.
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Speaker 9: You need the temperature of the internal temperature of the core.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I know you probably don't realize this, doctor Todd Barr,
17:40
Speaker 2: because this is your everyday vernacular, but we think you're
17:44
Speaker 2: pretty brilliant. That was an incredible explanation. The reason this
17:48
Speaker 2: is so important is I need to figure out time
17:51
Speaker 2: of death. Now there are other things. Let me go
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Speaker 2: to Nicole to board hotch Globe veteran trial lawyer, former prosecutor.
18:00
Speaker 2: Of course, we're gonna look at extrinsic evidence to determine
18:04
Speaker 2: time of death. Did she make a phone call and
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Speaker 2: speak to somebody at seven point fifteen and then they
18:09
Speaker 2: call back at seven thirty and she didn't answer the phone.
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Speaker 2: My point is I'm clearing the mother That's where I'm
18:16
Speaker 2: going with this. Did the mother have anything to do
18:18
Speaker 2: with this? Absolutely not at all. But I don't want
18:23
Speaker 2: some a whole defendant trying to push to blame on mom.
18:29
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, if I thought even a tiny bit
18:32
Speaker 2: the mother had anything to do with this, I'd be
18:35
Speaker 2: on her like a cheap suit. But I don't. I
18:39
Speaker 2: believe her. I believe everything that she has said. I
18:43
Speaker 2: listened very carefully. I've watched her demeanor, and I don't
18:46
Speaker 2: need to believe her because her story is completely accurate.
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Speaker 2: There is video cam of her leaving, her cell phone,
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Speaker 2: leaves with her at the time that she leaves. There
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Speaker 2: are communitytions that the girl had with other people after
19:04
Speaker 2: mom leaves, we think. But that's why I'm nailing down
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Speaker 2: the time of death, and I will use any and
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Speaker 2: all means to do that. Nicole Debord Hotch Globe, I
19:15
Speaker 2: mean you have to. You've got to get the algamortis,
19:18
Speaker 2: the temperature, the rigor. You've got to look at the
19:21
Speaker 2: liverra mortis, have the blood has settled. You have to
19:24
Speaker 2: look at extrinsic evidence, like her cell phone, her social media,
19:28
Speaker 2: the mother's cell phone, the video surveillance is there. Do
19:33
Speaker 2: they have a burglar alarm at times when somebody goes
19:36
Speaker 2: in and out of the house A lot of them do.
19:39
Speaker 2: So explain why this is so significant, Nicole, Well.
19:43
Speaker 8: It's so important, and you're so right. Of course, immediate
19:46
Speaker 8: family members are absolutely always going to be someone that
19:49
Speaker 8: the police need to examine to determine whether or not
19:52
Speaker 8: they could potentially be a suspect. You know, obviously in
19:56
Speaker 8: this case, I'm in the same boat that you're in
19:59
Speaker 8: and completely you believe the mother, But it's still a
20:02
Speaker 8: very relevant inquiry and incredibly important that this information is
20:06
Speaker 8: documented correctly because a defense attorney, you can expect, will
20:10
Speaker 8: be examining this timeline in the context of the suspect
20:13
Speaker 8: that is ultimately arrested for the crime and put on trial,
20:17
Speaker 8: So they need to know was all of this data collected,
20:21
Speaker 8: was it recorded accurately? Is it possible that there was
20:24
Speaker 8: an alibi for the person who's ultimately accused.
20:27
Speaker 2: And you know, Nicole Debord Hosch Club, it's not just
20:30
Speaker 2: it's your job to cover every base. It is your
20:35
Speaker 2: job to explore every avenue, whether you believe mom or don't.
20:40
Speaker 2: I do, But it's not just proving your case. Number
20:45
Speaker 2: one is your job, is your ethical duty. Number two,
20:49
Speaker 2: if you want to win your case, you have to.
20:51
Speaker 2: And number three, you want to shoot down any cocamamie
20:54
Speaker 2: defense they may have before they even raise it, you know,
20:59
Speaker 2: attack them before they can attack you. Let's pick it
21:02
Speaker 2: back up where we were with John Limley.
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Speaker 3: In fact, no one had heard from Elizabeth since seven
21:08
Speaker 3: point thirty that morning. Worried, Jacqueline starts calling her daughter's
21:12
Speaker 3: cell phone. The calls go straight to voicemail. Jacqueline Medina
21:16
Speaker 3: heads home to the apartment. The two of them share
21:19
Speaker 3: and more. On the way to her apartment, Jacqueline Medina
21:23
Speaker 3: calls Elizabeth's phone NonStop, each call going to voicemail. When
21:28
Speaker 3: Medina gets home, the door is unlocked. Inside, nothing seems
21:33
Speaker 3: out of place. When Jacqueline goes into the bathroom, she
21:36
Speaker 3: pulls back the shower curtain, finding Elizabeth Medina unconscious. She
21:42
Speaker 3: calls nine to one one for help.
21:44
Speaker 2: Okay, that actually makes me nauseous, Karen Stark. The thought
21:49
Speaker 2: of pulling back your shower curtain and seeing the one
21:54
Speaker 2: you love the most, your world, your heart, your music,
21:59
Speaker 2: your air is lying there dead in her pajamas. I
22:03
Speaker 2: mean I don't know how this mom is putting one
22:04
Speaker 2: foot in front of the other.
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Speaker 4: That's such a terrible, a terrible visual. We can all
22:10
Speaker 4: picture it and how horrific it must have been. And
22:13
Speaker 4: this mom really, Nancy, I know you love the kids.
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Speaker 4: She's like you. She's dedicated to this girl. She moved here,
22:21
Speaker 4: she moved there for her. It's all about her daughter.
22:25
Speaker 4: And so this is something that I can't imagine she
22:29
Speaker 4: will ever be able to get over. She'll need a
22:32
Speaker 4: lot of help just to get through her gaze.
22:35
Speaker 2: Man, I know it. One step at a time. Yeah,
22:39
Speaker 2: take a lesson to crime Onlines Lee Egan.
22:42
Speaker 10: The Enna Police Department receive a call of an unresponsive
22:45
Speaker 10: juvenile at about seven pm at the Cottonwood Apartments. First
22:48
Speaker 10: responders work to save the teen's life, but she's pronounced
22:51
Speaker 10: dead at the scene. Jackal Madina tells katrk that there
22:54
Speaker 10: was no forced entry into the apartment and there are
22:56
Speaker 10: only two keys. Jack Medina has one and Elizabeth had
22:59
Speaker 10: the other. According to the teen's aunt, she was still
23:02
Speaker 10: in her pajamas, leading the family to believe she was
23:04
Speaker 10: murdered that morning before school.
23:06
Speaker 2: Well, that makes absolute sense. Elaine Ardia is joining me.
23:09
Speaker 2: Senior investigative crime reporter at the Messenger, Elaine Ardias, again,
23:14
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Tell me about the
23:16
Speaker 2: apartment complex. And just because there's no forced entry, that
23:20
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that the killer is someone known to the victims.
23:26
Speaker 2: You know, somebody knocks at my door. I think I've
23:29
Speaker 2: got the twins trained. I look out first, I see
23:32
Speaker 2: who it is. I ask, even though I can see them,
23:36
Speaker 2: who is it? And I hear what they say, is
23:39
Speaker 2: it an Instacart?
23:40
Speaker 9: Well?
23:40
Speaker 2: Did I order an Instacart? Is it an Amazon? Did
23:43
Speaker 2: I order an Amazon? But a sixteen year old girl,
23:46
Speaker 2: somebody may have knocked at the door. I don't know
23:48
Speaker 2: if they've got a peephole. I don't know if she
23:50
Speaker 2: can see out. From what I could see of the apartment,
23:52
Speaker 2: there was not a way for her to see who's
23:54
Speaker 2: on the other side of the door. So she may
23:57
Speaker 2: have just opened the door. And the guy says, hey,
23:59
Speaker 2: can I bar you phoned the fact that she opened
24:02
Speaker 2: the door? It's over. So what can you tell me
24:05
Speaker 2: about this area of town? Elaine Ardias? And do you
24:08
Speaker 2: know anything about that apartment complex?
24:11
Speaker 6: These apartment complexes, you know, they're very big, but at
24:17
Speaker 6: the same time.
24:18
Speaker 5: Everyone knows everyone. But we're talking.
24:21
Speaker 6: About a sixteen year old girl getting ready for school.
24:26
Speaker 6: It's possible that there was a knock at the door,
24:30
Speaker 6: or even if she had the door unlocked. There are
24:34
Speaker 6: apartment doors very common that they're not modernized, you know,
24:41
Speaker 6: and they don't automatically lock when you close them. You
24:44
Speaker 6: could have just opened up the door. Again, this is
24:47
Speaker 6: a town of six thousand people. Things like this don't
24:50
Speaker 6: happen there.
24:51
Speaker 5: And so everyone trusts everyone, and no one's a stranger,
24:57
Speaker 5: even if they are, you know, So the last thing
25:00
Speaker 5: on anyone's mind is that if I opened the door.
25:03
Speaker 6: There's a murderer standing in front of me. So these
25:06
Speaker 6: are the kind of you know, apartment complexes that everyone
25:12
Speaker 6: always kind of has an eye open.
25:15
Speaker 2: Do you know if it was they were on the
25:17
Speaker 2: bottom or the third floor? What floor were they on
25:20
Speaker 2: of the apartment that part? I have not seen. I
25:23
Speaker 2: have an either, and I've really looked jump in Chris
25:27
Speaker 2: mcdonna about how a perp could have gotten in without
25:30
Speaker 2: the mother or the daughter knowing the perp.
25:33
Speaker 7: So, Nancy, there's a couple of ways. First of all, obviously,
25:37
Speaker 7: the suspect has to be very familiar with that geographic
25:40
Speaker 7: region i e. Meaning that the apartment complex as a whole.
25:44
Speaker 7: So what the cops are going to do right off
25:47
Speaker 7: the bat from one of the very first things is
25:50
Speaker 7: they're going to do as we've talked in the past
25:52
Speaker 7: about a victim risk continuum, and this is obviously a
25:55
Speaker 7: very low risk situation. So you have a young girl
25:59
Speaker 7: getting ready for school, she's found deceased in her bathtub.
26:03
Speaker 7: And now the second question they're going to have is, Okay,
26:07
Speaker 7: we got a low risk situation here. What is the
26:10
Speaker 7: contact point here to your point on this question, and
26:14
Speaker 7: the contact point meaning how does the suspect know that
26:18
Speaker 7: this young lady is in this apartment number one, number two.
26:23
Speaker 7: If the suspect did know she's in this apartment, who
26:27
Speaker 7: are the geographic connections within this building and or what
26:32
Speaker 7: brought him to this building? Is it a social media
26:35
Speaker 7: hook ie is fishing for her? Is it a scenario
26:40
Speaker 7: where he knows somebody is he working in the area
26:43
Speaker 7: and he's been surveilling her accidentally may have seen her,
26:47
Speaker 7: and all those variances should be taken into place or
26:51
Speaker 7: taken into consideration right from the get go, And that
26:55
Speaker 7: would kind of set the play for him, maybe using
27:00
Speaker 7: a roosh at the front door. She opens the door. Hey,
27:04
Speaker 7: I'm the maintenance guy. And this is just hypothetical, of course,
27:07
Speaker 7: but those are the kind of scenarios that could potentially
27:11
Speaker 7: play out in there.
27:12
Speaker 2: Taking a look at Cottonwood apartments right now, and they
27:15
Speaker 2: all seem to be universally two stories with even the
27:21
Speaker 2: bottom the bottoms have a balcony or a porch of sorts,
27:26
Speaker 2: and you know the number. Think about Coburger again, he's
27:30
Speaker 2: supposed to boy for so many aspects of crime. A
27:34
Speaker 2: sliding glass door the easiest thing in the world to
27:39
Speaker 2: get into. Okay, I want to move forward. I don't
27:42
Speaker 2: know if they know the purp or not, but I
27:46
Speaker 2: do know there was no forest entry. And another thing,
27:49
Speaker 2: isn't it true? Back to Elaine or d a senior
27:51
Speaker 2: crime report of the Messenger, things looked in order. It
27:54
Speaker 2: didn't look like anything that there had been a struggle
27:57
Speaker 2: of any.
27:57
Speaker 9: Sort, right struggle.
28:01
Speaker 6: Nothing was taken. Again, no force to entry socy.
28:07
Speaker 2: Previous break ins would also be Chris, gohey, please, you're right.
28:10
Speaker 7: Previous break ins in that geographic region and or that
28:13
Speaker 7: apartment would be critical in a.
28:15
Speaker 2: Case you're so right, You're so right, and again everyone
28:19
Speaker 2: jump in. We need all the wisdom and knowledge that
28:23
Speaker 2: everybody on this panel has. And then we get a
28:26
Speaker 2: little bit of a break. Take a listen to our
28:29
Speaker 2: cut five Crime Online.
28:31
Speaker 10: The search for a suspect begins the day after Lizbeth murder,
28:35
Speaker 10: and the police release surveillance photos of a person in
28:37
Speaker 10: a vehicle of interest. The bearded man in the photo
28:40
Speaker 10: is wearing a black vocalhooded sweatshirt and he's seen driving
28:43
Speaker 10: a silver Ford Tourists. Police it's possible that he is
28:46
Speaker 10: a tattoo behind his right ear. Few other details are released.
28:49
Speaker 2: And not only that he's running. I mean, let's get
28:55
Speaker 2: real about it.
29:10
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace back to you.
29:13
Speaker 2: Chris mcdona. If you don't want to bring attention to
29:16
Speaker 2: her yourself, don't run from a crime scene. Has nobody
29:20
Speaker 2: watched a movie? If you want to get away with it,
29:23
Speaker 2: you walk out calmly. I mean, I don't need to
29:25
Speaker 2: help any fellows out there listening in. But he's sprinting
29:29
Speaker 2: from the area of that apartment to his four Taurus.
29:34
Speaker 2: It's like taking out an ad on Third Avenue. Find
29:37
Speaker 2: me I did it.
29:38
Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, and talk about a huge red flag.
29:41
Speaker 7: And when he gets into that car because they are
29:44
Speaker 7: so close believe it or not, to the US border,
29:48
Speaker 7: and there are camera systems all over those highways.
29:53
Speaker 2: Man, you're not kidding. I mean you know Nicole de
29:55
Speaker 2: Boord hotch Globe now criminal defense attorne, former prosecutor. That's
30:01
Speaker 2: one thing I love to argue to jury's. Hey, you
30:04
Speaker 2: see a Saint trooper come up behind you on the interstate.
30:07
Speaker 2: You might touch your brake to slow down a little bit,
30:09
Speaker 2: but do you really take off at one hundred and
30:11
Speaker 2: twenty mph? No, flight is indicative of guilt. Now, many
30:18
Speaker 2: jurisdictions that cannot be instructed to the jury. The judge
30:21
Speaker 2: can't say the stakes and still argue it. Here you
30:23
Speaker 2: got a guy running early in the morning, caught on
30:27
Speaker 2: surveillance video straight to his car from the area of
30:30
Speaker 2: her apartment.
30:31
Speaker 8: Absolutely, and in Texas you can most certainly make that
30:34
Speaker 8: argument as a prosecutor that flight is indeed as an
30:39
Speaker 8: indicator of guilt, and the person is flinging because of
30:41
Speaker 8: a guilty conscience, And so you can certainly expect that
30:44
Speaker 8: the prosecutor, ultimately, if his case goes to trial will
30:47
Speaker 8: be making those types of argument, arguments that you know,
30:51
Speaker 8: if he's just casually walking around the apartment complex, there
30:54
Speaker 8: would be no reason for him to suddenly take off
30:57
Speaker 8: running and then jump into his car and flee.
30:59
Speaker 2: The doctor barr. How do you obtain DNA from under
31:03
Speaker 2: a dead victim's fingernails?
31:05
Speaker 9: We use We use these little paddles that like sort
31:10
Speaker 9: of scrape under the nails. We also will clip the
31:13
Speaker 9: fingernails right down to the quick and so you not
31:17
Speaker 9: only take the nail off, but you also scrape under
31:22
Speaker 9: the nail. The other thing I wanted to mention was,
31:25
Speaker 9: I don't know if this was brought up in this
31:27
Speaker 9: case or not, but in this particular case, being that
31:30
Speaker 9: she's a young woman, we don't know what the motive is.
31:35
Speaker 9: I would certainly want to do a sexual assault kid.
31:37
Speaker 9: Oh gosh, yes, he very well could have left DNA
31:41
Speaker 9: behind that way as well.
31:43
Speaker 2: And we've just seen in the Long Island serial killer case,
31:47
Speaker 2: Rex Huerman suspect number one, that hair the suspect's wife
31:53
Speaker 2: has been found on at least one or not, if
31:56
Speaker 2: not more, of the many many victims, most likely a
32:00
Speaker 2: transfer from the defendant. But long story short, there's a
32:05
Speaker 2: possibility of a hair transfer, a sex assault kit, fingernails,
32:09
Speaker 2: all that would be entered into the DNA database, but
32:13
Speaker 2: then a stroke of luck. Take a listen to Jackie
32:18
Speaker 2: Howard crime online.
32:20
Speaker 11: Two days after the murder of Elizabeth Medina, Edna police
32:24
Speaker 11: announce and arrest the suspect as a twenty three year
32:27
Speaker 11: old undocumented migrant thought to have been living in the
32:31
Speaker 11: US for the past five years. His name Rothael go
32:34
Speaker 11: Via Romero. He was captured about seventy five miles north
32:38
Speaker 11: of Edna in Schulenburg, Texas, where he reportedly has family.
32:44
Speaker 11: Romero is jailed on suspicion of capital murder. KPRC reports
32:48
Speaker 11: his bond is set at two million dollars.
32:51
Speaker 2: Chiwylane Ardia is joining a senior crime A reporter. The
32:54
Speaker 2: messenger Eline, tell me everything you know about his capture.
32:58
Speaker 6: The Edna Police Department had been working with so many
33:02
Speaker 6: law enforcement agencies, from the Texas Rangers to DPS to
33:08
Speaker 6: all sorts of other agencies, and they got a call
33:12
Speaker 6: that they needed this is the person that they were
33:16
Speaker 6: looking for.
33:17
Speaker 2: Because of the photo that was released.
33:20
Speaker 9: Because of the photos, so.
33:23
Speaker 6: There was a five thousand dollars reward attached to it
33:25
Speaker 6: as well, and so people called in and at that time,
33:31
Speaker 6: what we didn't know was that they started coordinating with Schulenberg,
33:36
Speaker 6: Texas Police. Schullenberg is another small Texas town about an
33:41
Speaker 6: hour north of Edna.
33:43
Speaker 5: So we're talking, this is all.
33:44
Speaker 6: Outside of Houston, and these are these little towns that
33:47
Speaker 6: are sort of dotted along the highway, and so it's
33:52
Speaker 6: an hour north of Edna, and they coordinated with Schulenberg.
33:57
Speaker 6: They went to the house they suspected he was at.
34:03
Speaker 5: And it was without incident.
34:05
Speaker 6: They when they went and knocked at the door, whoever
34:09
Speaker 6: the door said, yes, he's here, and so police arrested him.
34:16
Speaker 2: At that time, Question Elaine Ardas, I've heard reports that
34:22
Speaker 2: we now have a CEOD cause of death.
34:25
Speaker 4: What is it that she was stabbed to death?
34:28
Speaker 6: She was found stabbed to death in her pajamas in
34:31
Speaker 6: the bathtub.
34:33
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut eleven Dave Mac.
34:36
Speaker 12: Police now say Elizabeth Medina was stabbed to death, her
34:39
Speaker 12: body left in the bathtub. Rafael Govea Romero, twenty three,
34:43
Speaker 12: arrested in the murder after police and Texas rangers acted
34:46
Speaker 12: on a tip. They went to Romero's family home in Schulenberg,
34:49
Speaker 12: seizing evidence from Romero's Silver Taurus which police say links
34:53
Speaker 12: him to Medina's death. Romero is an undocumented demigrant living
34:56
Speaker 12: in the US on an expired visa, police said. Edna
34:58
Speaker 12: Police Chief rig Boone said Romero has been in the
35:01
Speaker 12: US illegally after overstaying his visa. His family has reported
35:05
Speaker 12: that lived in Schullenberg for about five years. Romero has
35:08
Speaker 12: been detained by US Immigration and Customs enforcement. No motive
35:11
Speaker 12: has been released for the deadly stabbing.
35:13
Speaker 2: Of course, the state never has to prove a motive.
35:17
Speaker 2: But coincidentally, I think we've got a motive. Take a
35:22
Speaker 2: listen to our cut seven Lee Egan.
35:25
Speaker 10: Jackal Mandina tells local news agencies that it's possible that
35:28
Speaker 10: her daughter's death is related to a recent break in
35:30
Speaker 10: at their unit, and the police chief, Rick Boons his
35:33
Speaker 10: items missing from the apartment were found in Romero's possession.
35:36
Speaker 10: Details on how Romero was captured have not been revealed,
35:38
Speaker 10: but police say Romero confessed to the murder. Jackal Mandina
35:42
Speaker 10: does not recognize the suspect.
35:43
Speaker 2: To Nicole Deeboord Hotch Globe joining us the brutal stabbing
35:50
Speaker 2: death of a tain girl first thing in the morning,
35:54
Speaker 2: right after mom leaves, getting ready to go cheer in
35:58
Speaker 2: this jurisdiction is one aggravating circumstance to seek the death penalty.
36:05
Speaker 2: Of course, particularly heinous, that's everywhere. But what about if
36:09
Speaker 2: a murder occurs during the commission of another felony such
36:15
Speaker 2: as burglary, robbery, or rape.
36:17
Speaker 8: All of those things would would make this case eligible
36:21
Speaker 8: to be considered for the death penalty. And that's something
36:23
Speaker 8: that I can guarantee. Given the horrific nature of the
36:27
Speaker 8: fact of this case, this jurisdiction will be seriously considering.
36:30
Speaker 2: I don't want this guy to just be deported. You know,
36:35
Speaker 2: very often you hear me Chris McDonald talk about I
36:39
Speaker 2: got to pay for this guy's three hots in a cot.
36:43
Speaker 2: I don't mind paying for this guy's three hots in
36:46
Speaker 2: a cot until it gets to the DP, which is
36:49
Speaker 2: going to be a long time if it's even sought.
36:52
Speaker 2: But you know what, sometimes it's worth Chris.
36:55
Speaker 7: You're very correct, Nancy, And this is the kind of
36:58
Speaker 7: guy that is obviously showing signs that he probably would
37:04
Speaker 7: have done this again had he not been arrested. I mean,
37:07
Speaker 7: the fact that he hides the body he flees. He
37:10
Speaker 7: possibly could have broken in before. This is not his
37:12
Speaker 7: first rodeo, and it would have kept on going.
37:14
Speaker 2: And he definitely was stealing stuff. I mean items were
37:18
Speaker 2: At first when they went in, nothing was apparently missing,
37:21
Speaker 2: but then they realized when they got him he had
37:25
Speaker 2: items from the home. But to hell with the items.
37:30
Speaker 2: The girl, it's all that mattered, Nancy.
37:34
Speaker 4: I'm wondering when he broke in the first time that
37:37
Speaker 4: was him is he saw pictures of her and that's
37:40
Speaker 4: what brought him back there. That he didn't really know her,
37:45
Speaker 4: but he saw pictures, photographs.
37:47
Speaker 2: We wait as just as of foals, and our prayers
37:51
Speaker 2: are with Lizabeth's mother. She is in pure hell right now.
37:59
Speaker 2: Goodbye friend, you