Transcript

Jamie Whincup · Rusty's Garage

0:02
A listener production.
0:18
I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust and this is Rusty's Garage.
0:30
In this episode, I'm at a racetrack in south-east Queensland, about an hour's drive from Brisbane, where supercars teams test and race.
0:39
The bloke I'm about to talk to is regarded as the greatest of all time in this sport, the GOAT.
0:45
Now, with seven championships and more than 100 race wins, it's Jamie Winkup, and his love of cars started early on in his childhood, thanks to his uncle.
0:54
Uncle Graham used to race cars.
0:56
He had a Chevy Monza, which he pretty much built himself, and there were only a couple of them around.
1:01
I know Bob Jane drove one for a bit.
1:04
So, yeah, that was the ultimate, you know, that was the beast that I aspired to drive one day.
1:10
What was your first road car?
1:12
My first road car was a baby blue V, what was it?
1:16
What was it?
1:17
A VH Commodore.
1:18
It was a special.
1:19
So it was like a baby blue.
1:20
So it was sky blue.
1:21
Great car.
1:23
It was my grandfather's car.
1:26
He was getting up pretty old and he stopped too close to the railway tracks and the boomerang, he came down and hit the roof.
1:32
So dad and my Uncle Grant said, you're finished driving.
1:36
I was turning 18 about the same time.
1:38
They put a new radiator in it for me, give it a cut and polish, and that was my first car.
1:42
Has anyone in the family kept it or has it moved on there?
1:44
It's moved on.
1:45
I'd love to be able to find it one day.
1:47
I haven't actively gone looking for it, but if I could find it, I'd certainly get it back.
1:51
I ended up buying... My next car was a VT Commodore.
1:55
It was the first car I brought.
1:56
I saved up my money, went and got a bank loan and spent $19,000 on a VT Commodore Bellina.
2:02
And I sold the VH for $1,500 and brought a new set of wheels for the VT, which was equal money.
2:10
Saw some great pics of a seven-year-old Jamie Wincup racing karts recently.
2:14
I think it was Remo Racing, Remo Luciani, was it, back in those days?
2:17
A guy who's out of Horsham in Victoria, a former racer who preps and runs karts now.
2:22
Tell me about the first kart that Jamie Wincup owned.
2:26
So we were good family friends with Mick Webb.
2:29
Mick Webb ran Oscars, he raced himself.
2:33
He's got a rich history in motorsport.
2:37
And his son, Michael, who I'm good mates with, raced rookies, little rookie car.
2:43
And my father and uncle brought the card off him, painted it bright red.
2:48
Every car my uncle had was bright red.
2:51
Painted it bright red and that was my first go-kart.
2:53
It was a Swiss Hutless rookie car.
2:56
You say that you were a bit of a lost kid back then, but karting kind of gave you some direction and it became something for you and for the family that was huge.
3:05
40 weekends a year you were doing it in the end, weren't you?
3:08
Yeah, it was a big deal and I'm very thankful for it.
3:11
Sport's great.
3:13
All my mates at school were having a good time playing footy, but karting for me, we travelled, travelled as a family, spent time as a family and we competed.
3:25
everyone says oh gee you're so competitive Jamie you can't we can't have a simple game of bocce in the park without you getting too competitive with it and unfortunately well not unfortunately I've grown up with it you know since I was 7 years old every weekend was compete respect your opposition and enjoy betting them
3:43
Still have a cart in the garage now?
3:44
Do you get out occasionally?
3:45
I do have a cart, yeah.
3:47
Michael Petrizzi, ex-car racer, he runs a cart team now.
3:53
So I've got the best setup of all time.
3:55
He stores the cart, takes it to the track for me, and we've got a good group of mates together, and we all go carting, you know, four or five times a year.
4:04
Really, it's a...
4:05
Great thing.
4:06
It just reminds me of what motorsport's all about.
4:09
You know, this V8 category, you know, it's a lot of money.
4:12
It's very commercialised.
4:14
And we do have a lot of fun out there competing.
4:16
But getting back in the karts with your mates and just battling it out, it's just refreshing to understand what motorsport's all about.
4:23
Like most youngsters, you progress through from karts to Formula Ford, single seaters, no wings, Ford engine.
4:32
That's under some great stars, that category, over the last 50 years or so.
4:36
But at that stage, you didn't necessarily think you might make a career out of this, did you?
4:40
No, not at all.
4:42
I don't think many people do.
4:44
It's a hobby.
4:46
It's a thing to do on the weekend.
4:47
If anything, you work all week and then you spend your money on the weekend driving your car around and so forth.
4:52
But one thing led to another and all of a sudden, opportunities opened up and I...
4:58
I thought, wow, next minute my profession was my hobby all rolled into one.
5:05
And there's a very small percentage of the population that can say their hobby is their profession.
5:11
So I'm very thankful for it.
5:12
Supercars are essentially a family rocket on steroids.
5:16
The bodywork resembles what you see in the dealership, but the engineering...
5:20
The IP underneath, what goes into it, it transforms them.
5:23
More than 640 horsepower.
5:25
A lot of passion for this sort of racing in these parts, and there's a bit of an art to driving them.
5:30
What did you think the first time you drove one?
5:33
What are your memories?
5:34
I just couldn't believe the power.
5:36
I was at Mellar on the outskirts of Adelaide.
5:41
I got an opportunity to drive through a family friend and whatnot.
5:44
Ross Halliday was the owner of the car and just blown away by the power.
5:51
I'd come out of a 110-horsepower Formula Ford into a 650-horsepower Vette supercar on full gas.
5:59
So I was literally two seconds behind the cars hanging on.
6:03
I knew what I was doing, but I was certainly hanging on.
6:06
And the lack of wind.
6:07
I've raced go-karts in Formula Ford.
6:09
You crack your visor and you get so much air in the helmet.
6:12
It's ridiculous.
6:13
To be inside a car with a windscreen with no air circulating, it was a very weird feeling.
6:18
I know from riding in them, they actually feel like a bucket of bolts as you trundle down along, you know, sort of 40 k's an hour in the pit lane.
6:24
But then it all comes to life the moment you unleash all that grunt.
6:29
Does it still give you the same kind of buzz as Malala to this day?
6:33
It doesn't without that, like...
6:36
When you don't feel the power anymore, you get used to the power, you absolutely never get used to the grip and just maximizing a car and new tires and qualifying.
6:48
The feeling you get when you get it all right and you feel that rhythm and extract the most out of the car, that's a money can't buy experience that you never ever get used to.
6:58
The only time you do realise you're going fast is when you have a bit of a moment at a place like Phillip Island.
7:03
You might drop a wheel off or something might happen and then you decide to yourself, oh, let's abort this lap and let's just slow the car up.
7:10
And then the time it takes to actually get back to a normal speed, it takes forever.
7:15
And that's, it's only those times when you realise actually exactly how quick you're going.
7:18
I used the word art before because it is like that to drive them at the limit.
7:23
How hard is it to get to that point where you know you can go lap after lap at that marker?
7:27
Well, there's a lot of psychology in that personally and a lot of psychology from the car giving you the good feedback to be able to actually find that limit, you know.
7:36
So it's a big combination of the two.
7:39
But as I say, finding the limit of a car or extracting the most out of it for however many corners there are on a track and get that lap out in qualifying on the big stage, that's a cool film.
7:52
That's what we do it for.
7:54
Every aspect of performance is analysed in this game.
7:57
Do you enjoy that side, the engineering side?
7:59
I do.
8:00
I do to a point.
8:01
As I say, it's great to get out here and just absolutely try to find the most out of the car, but then at the same time, it's great to go back and just jump in the go-kart.
8:11
We're still moving the wheels in and out and adjusting the tyre pressure and trying to go quicker, but we've just simplified the whole thing and then it just becomes... All of a sudden, that's a lot of fun as well.
8:20
So...
8:22
You know, as I said, the car racing thing's awesome, trying to get right into that engineering, but then at the same time keeping it simple is great.
8:30
Also, I enjoy both sides.
8:31
Did you learn a lot of that craft from your karting when you were a youngster?
8:34
And do you develop a bit of a language along the way so you can converse with the engineers and let him know what the car is doing?
8:41
I think, you know, 90 years.
8:43
Over 90% of your skill comes from go-karting.
8:46
The racing that went on back when I was 12 years old with Will Dabo and Mark Winterbottom and whatnot in cars, the same battles are still going on.
8:56
The cars are a bit bigger and they're a little bit more expensive to fit when it all goes wrong.
8:59
But it's the same thing.
9:01
All your race cars never comes when you're a youngster.
9:05
From memory, you turned professional about 2002, and those early years were probably by your own admission character building.
9:11
Lost that drive at Gary Rogers.
9:13
You got on the phone and you hustled for things like that opportunity with the legendary Larry Perkins.
9:17
You even finished 10th there at Bathurst with Alex Davison.
9:19
Car had no brakes at the end.
9:22
In that period, did you ever lose the passion for it?
9:27
Um, no, no.
9:29
I never lost the passion for racing, but I questioned the whole V8 supercar category.
9:38
It was hard work.
9:39
I went through a real tough year with Gary and then, of course, with Larry, where they were hard nuts, you know what I mean?
9:47
They just...
9:50
called a spade a spade, and I thought, do I really want to be involved with this?
9:55
You know what I mean?
9:56
But I moved on and did a year with Kevin Murphy at Tasman and then got involved with Roland, who are also hard nuts, but they're hard but fair.
10:06
You know what I mean?
10:07
It's certainly a reasonable environment.
10:09
It wasn't until then that I realised, hey, this game's a good one.
10:13
It's tough, but there's good people involved and I always like to surround myself with good people.
10:20
You've now been here at the Triple Eight organisation, one of the best teams in this part of the world for 12 years.
10:26
In that time, six championships, Bathurst wins, a century of race wins.
10:31
Is there one trophy that you treasure the most and why?
10:36
Trophy-wise, the surfboard is classic.
10:39
We say it when we're at the Gold Coast, but it's true.
10:43
Grabbing a surfboard, taking a surfboard home is a cool feeling.
10:46
But one race, one race win that always sticks to mind is race one 2012 at Eclipsville 500, passing Dave over half a lap to go.
10:55
After my father passed away the week before, that was pretty special.
10:59
That was pretty surreal.
11:01
We pitted a third time, so we did an extra pit stop, and the car was fantastic.
11:05
I was just doing quality lap after quality lap, and yeah, got there with half a lap to go.
11:10
Let's talk about Kate now.
11:12
Yeah.
11:13
Nickname for an enormously successful Holden Commodore, the AAA build.
11:17
Yeah.
11:17
You now own it.
11:18
Yeah.
11:18
Firstly, who christened it Kate, and why?
11:21
Yeah.
11:22
I named her Kate.
11:25
You're never going to get the reason why she's named Kate.
11:28
But that race I was talking about in 2012, I was driving Kate at the time.
11:33
I used her for two and a half years.
11:37
So it was debuted at the start of 2010, went to another car for the end of 010.
11:42
Didn't like it, so went back to Kate for 11 and 12.
11:45
So she's very special because of that race, particularly for me.
11:50
But at the end of the day, it was that car was the end of the Vodafone era.
11:55
It was the end of that old-style car before we went to the car of the future.
12:01
It's won two championships.
12:03
It's won Bathurst, the 50th anniversary, with my good mate Paul Dumbrell.
12:07
But it's won more races than any other car in the history of the sport.
12:12
So you go back through, every single car that's been involved in the Touring Car and Viet Supercar and now Supercar Championship.
12:20
She stands on top, just above that Ambrose BA and I think Scafie's VT.
12:26
So very special car.
12:29
Talking to the greats of the sport of...
12:32
Bob Jane, Larry, Jimmy Richards, they all got advice to keep one of your cars.
12:39
Whatever you do, keep one of your cars.
12:41
So I took on that advice and made sure that 2012 car was very special.
12:46
So I grabbed that, completely restored it, and it's my most prized possession sitting at home in the garage.
12:51
Let's talk more about that then.
12:52
Was it hard convincing your boss Roland dying to part with it?
12:56
Not really, no.
12:58
I think he was happy for me to have that car.
13:01
He'd give it to me for pretty much chicken feed, nothing, and help me restore it.
13:07
So the ironic thing is he actually owns the 2000...
13:12
He owns Chassis 10, which is the car that won Bathurst in 2006, the better electrical one.
13:17
Um, he's, there's a, it's been moved around in between, um, in between showrooms and whatnot, but it's that the, both cars are actually sitting beside each other, um, in, in, in my factory at the Gold Coast.
13:29
So it's, it's pretty cool.
13:30
Those cars sitting together.
13:32
Um, I get, get a mechanic down every, every 12 months just to turn the cars over and make sure that they're staying fresh, but, um,
13:39
It's a great site, Chassis Town and Cater, living at home together.
13:42
Were you hands-on in that restoration process?
13:45
No, I wasn't.
13:46
I'd like to say I was, but my ex-number-one mechanic, Gary Bailey, who worked with me in 06, 07, 08...
13:54
He was retired, he had a workshop up at Toowoomba, so we sent the car up there and he stripped it right back to the chassis, re-powder-coded the chassis.
14:03
It's got brand new radiator, tyres, brakes, everything's been completely redone, engines all been rebuilt, the engine that won Bathurst in 2012, all fresh paint, it's a brand new race car, and as I said, most prized possession.
14:18
Winkup is going to win this race.
14:22
Currently, McLaughlin will win the championship unless he is penalized.
14:29
Great work, guys.
14:30
Great work.
14:30
Proud of you.
14:32
Awesome stuff.
14:32
I'll shoot me around six.
14:35
A post-res pit lane penalty for car number 17 for a driving infringement.
14:40
We are the champions.
14:42
We are the champions.
14:43
Yeah.
14:48
Jamie Wincup is champion.
14:55
This is Greg Rust and you're listening to Rusty's Garage.
14:59
More with Jamie Wincup in a moment.
15:02
In this series, we're not only focused on the machines with four wheels, but also ones with two.
15:08
Motorcycle rider Troy Bayliss and I spoke about his time living in Monaco, learning to speak Italian so he could communicate with his racing team mechanics at Ducati, to his return to Australia with the family.
15:20
so hard after all them years away and then you come home and you're so used to being racing week in, week out and maybe the spotlight, I don't know about the spotlight but the winning or the competition when I went down to see the team at Phillip Island for the first round of the World Super Bikes I was like so depressed I could hardly even go into the box and speak to the guys I just felt so wrong to even be there and I felt like that for years but
15:49
I sort of, you know, I used to go back and test the bikes and do a bit of work with the guys and was always thinking, no, I should be back there racing.
15:59
Plus, he let me in on a secret that his fans will be excited to hear.
16:03
Listen to the full episode with Troy Bayliss here on Rusty's Garage.
16:10
Hoon, a lout or hooligan, especially a young man who drives recklessly.
16:17
As we record this interview, we're sitting in the team's transport of the trailer.
16:22
The old version, you were able to borrow.
16:24
You've got a truck driver's licence, so you went and physically picked up Kate and drove it home.
16:29
Tell us about that.
16:30
Yeah, yeah.
16:31
So I spent three days of my life getting my B double licence, my multi-MC, the multi-combination, just for if I needed it, if I ever needed it.
16:40
So, yeah, it was a good opportunity.
16:42
So it rang Roland up and said, I need to borrow the truck.
16:45
And...
16:46
Jumped in the truck and off I went to Toowoomba, forgetting about the range.
16:49
I didn't realise the Toowoomba range was you go up a kilometre and back down again.
16:54
So I was on the phone, hands-free, of course, to the truckies, and I'm like, how do I get this thing in low gear and then how do I work the engine brakes?
17:01
But we got it all sorted before I got to the range and before I come back down.
17:05
But brought the car back.
17:08
Took it back to my garage, unloaded it, put it home, and then we went back to the workshop and then the tar lift broke.
17:14
So thank God that broke.
17:16
Thank God it was very close.
17:17
We could have had a broken tar lift in Toowoomba.
17:18
It would have been in big trouble, but got it done.
17:21
And, yeah, I don't mind the truck.
17:23
I've done a few bucks parties and I'm always sober, Bob.
17:26
I'm always the one.
17:27
You've got a raceman in the next weekend that can't drive, so I'm always the one driving the minibus around or something.
17:32
So a truck licence is valuable for that.
17:35
Could you get anything more removed from a supercar than driving a truck?
17:39
Not really, but we do a few events up through the country and we do a couple of towns here and there and have the car on display.
17:48
So I love the opportunity.
17:49
Any opportunity I can get to drive the truck, I jump in.
17:52
It's quite peaceful, actually.
17:53
It's like anyone that's driven a ride on a lawnmower and mowed the lawn for the day.
17:58
It's a similar feeling.
17:58
It's actually quite peaceful.
18:00
Supercars still has its beloved V8s, but...
18:02
with an eye on the future as well.
18:04
And the team here is now developing a twin-turbo V6.
18:08
What's it like?
18:09
It sounds phenomenal, I think.
18:10
Yeah, it sounds great.
18:13
It is the future, and I'm just thankful that...
18:17
that Roland just keeps throwing out challenges.
18:20
You know what I mean?
18:21
It's never a dull moment.
18:23
It never gets stale here.
18:24
I've been here for 12 years.
18:26
There's always something new on the go or something exciting to look forward to.
18:29
And this V6 twin turbo is just another step in that.
18:33
So there's some work to do, without doubt.
18:36
It's our first engine put in the car.
18:38
Sounds great, but there's so much more to come.
18:41
We'll develop that engine, make it a real hardy horsepower, you know, a...
18:47
high developed racing engine.
18:52
So at the moment it needs some work, but we'll get there and it'll be a good thing.
18:55
And I'm sure the fans on the hill will appreciate the sound, appreciate the work on how much power we're getting out of it, the six-cylinder.
19:22
As you and I talk, you were right in the battle for the Supercars Championship, and you started the year superbly too, mate, with Craig Lowndes, a win in the Bathurst 12-hour in the Ferrari 488 GT3.
19:33
What was that set of wheels like?
19:35
I mean, very different machine to the Holden Commodore you're in most weekends.
19:38
Yeah, a massive eye-opener.
19:40
I say I've been very limited in the cars I've driven.
19:45
I've driven a go-kart, a former Ford, a few other little small cars here and there, but then I've moved in a supercar and that's pretty much all I've driven.
19:53
So opportunities to drive other cars have been few and far between just because I put so much commitment into the supercar thing.
20:01
So to do Race of Champions was great, but then on top of that, to race a million-dollar Ferrari around Bathurst for the 12-hour and then to stand on the top seat of the podium, that was a great experience, one I'm very, very happy I committed to.
20:18
and made the most of and to turn up with lounges again we haven't turned up with lounges i think since 2009 so for us to jump back in and be teammates after six years was good fun are there other cars like that maybe even other events globally that you might like to try at some stage of course of course you know there's daytona there's le mans there's all those all those cracking events around the around the country um driving you know gt cars as well is um is something that really appeals to me as i said i'm i'm
20:47
I'm an all eggs in one basket sort of a guy.
20:49
I'll just be fully committed to one thing and then move on to the next.
20:52
So I'm committed to this supercar championship.
20:55
I don't want any distractions.
20:57
But at some stage, I'll wind back and just be a co-driver, so to speak, and then certainly hope that I'm still young enough and still quick enough to be able to do some cool events here and there.
21:08
Team are unpacking the truck.
21:09
We can hear some of the noise in the background.
21:12
In the past 12 months, you opened a car wash cafe on the Gold Coast, hands-on throughout the build, throughout the running of it.
21:20
What did you learn about caring for cars and things like that?
21:24
Is there a secret to washing them?
21:26
Oh, absolutely, yeah, but the old-school way of washing a car in the driveway with a bucket and sponge still applies to a half-a-million-dollar tunnel, you know, full-blown tunnel car wash.
21:39
So a lot of people get it wrong, but at the end of the day, you've got to wet the car down first, get most of the mud off, then apply the soap, and then, of course, you know, wax and dry.
21:48
So we apply that basic principle but just do it very well with some high-tech equipment.
21:55
There's some good cars out there, but there's certainly some bad ones out there as well.
21:58
You know, there's some cars that come in with the front bumper bar sticky taped on or, you know, got some bubble gum on it.
22:05
So we've got to be real careful that, you know, that our machinery doesn't hurt the cars.
22:10
But what's awesome, and for the guys and girls that work for me, we get half a million dollar cars.
22:18
We get all sorts of McLarens, new Mercs, you know, whatever.
22:21
There's a few Lambos around the area, Maseratis.
22:25
Absolutely the smorgasbord of exotic cars come through the car wash, and it's cool.
22:32
You know, I love getting in.
22:33
I only drive 20 metres, but it's certainly a good bus.
22:36
If memory serves, you're quite fond of music too.
22:39
What do you listen to when you drive?
22:41
Oh, I'm all over the place.
22:42
I'm really broad.
22:44
I'm not a rap guy or a rock or, you know, old school hip hop or anything like that.
22:50
I'm just broad.
22:51
I just appreciate a good beat.
22:53
I get the piss ripped out of me at times.
22:55
Some of those good beats are fairly soft songs, you know, but just love a good beat.
23:01
So I can't answer that but say I just love a good beat and it's quite broad.
23:05
Life after racing.
23:06
What will you do?
23:07
Will you still be involved in the paddock here somewhere?
23:09
Will you, with team management?
23:11
What will you do?
23:12
I may have a break, a short break, but I'm sure I won't be away for a long time.
23:18
You know, I got involved in this sport when I was seven years old.
23:20
I've got no doubt I'll still be doing it when I'm seven years old.
23:23
I've got a, you know...
23:25
I'd love to be involved in the team after I stop driving.
23:29
I feel like I've got a lot to offer in the sport.
23:33
I'm a racer.
23:34
I love competing.
23:35
So it's going to be a sad day when I do decide to stop racing full-time.
23:41
But as I said, I'll be involved in the sport for a long time.
23:44
You're not going to get rid of me too quick.
23:46
A couple of final questions for you.
23:47
For a young bloke...
23:49
or girl, coming through now, what advice would you give them about competing in supercars, what the sport is like, what the cars are like to drive?
23:56
What would you say to them?
23:58
Well, I do a few school visits during the year, and I do cringe at the young kids.
24:04
It's fine to aim high, but I do cringe at the young kids to say, I want to drive a VAT supercar, you know?
24:10
Only because all the way through my go-karting and from the Ford days, I was never thinking of turning the hobby into a professional.
24:17
I was just loving...
24:18
We lived day to day, weekend to weekend, and just absolutely focused on the next weekend and didn't worry too much about the future.
24:25
When you get older, you've got to plan the future.
24:27
There's more responsibilities with families and whatnot.
24:30
But back then, just live one weekend at a time and absolutely make the most of now, what's happening right now.
24:37
If you do get the opportunity, if you are 0.01% of the population that gets through and does turn their hobby into their profession, absolutely make the most of it.
24:46
But never forget what sport's all about.
24:48
You know, sport is about enjoying it for what it is, competing, respecting your opposition, but enjoy beating them at the same time.
24:57
Is there, you've already got Kate in the garage, we know that.
24:59
Is there a Grail car or bike for Jamie Wincup that you would like in the garage one day?
25:05
What is it and why?
25:06
There is.
25:07
There is a Nissan GT-R with a number one on the door.
25:12
I think it was the 92 Bathurst winner with Scafie and Jimmy Rich's name on the door.
25:20
I'd love that car, without doubt.
25:22
That's my first memories of touring car racing.
25:26
But I think it's got a million-dollar price tag on it, so it's a bit out of my range.
25:31
Who knows?
25:32
It might get cheaper one day and I'll certainly acquire it.
25:35
Fittingly, as you and I have been chatting here, Jimmy's son, Stephen's on the other side of the air, typing right at the computer, about the spinner in his own right.
25:41
He and I would love a good coffee, by the way, a cap or a latte.
25:45
Do you do those at the cafe?
25:46
I can do a good coffee.
25:47
I can certainly supply that, without a doubt.
25:50
For your teething issues, I was just going through my new baskets for the new machine I put in this morning.
25:56
But any time, boys, any time.
26:00
On the next episode of Rusty's Garage, I talk with Robbie Madison, a modern-day Evel Knievel, adrenaline junkie and engineering pioneer.
26:10
This time, it's money that Robbie's putting on the line for a radical new type of motorcycle.
26:15
As a kid surfing on the south coast of Kiama, I'd always sit in the ocean.
26:19
I used to think, how good would it be to jump off this way to that one over there?
26:23
And now that's what my goal is.
26:25
That's my vision.
26:26
So I'm going to turn my KTM from 72 horsepower to 150 horsepower, supercharge it, and the thing's going to float, and we're going to be able to do freestyle motocross in the water.
26:36
Learn about his bike that floats and how Robbie lives his life all in on the next episode of Rusty's Garage.
26:45
Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
26:49
Series producer and editor is Alex Mitchell.
26:53
Audio production by Darcy Thompson.
27:02
Listener.