Latest / UK Column Radio / Competition is foundational to liberty and prosperity

Transcript

Competition is foundational to liberty and prosperity · UK Column Radio

• 0:38
  It's great to be here, Jeremy. Thanks a lot.
• 0:41
  I mean, you really do have one of the best podcast and I mean
• 0:43
  the courage to have Ian Papa no more Thinkenstein to do a great
• 0:48
  job of dealing with Zionist calamity.
• 0:52
  And Kevin McDonald is another great guest.
• 0:54
  You know his culture of critique books and I really enjoyed him
• 0:57
  as well. And then you have Michael Eden
• 0:59
  dealing with germ theory myths. So I really appreciate your and
• 1:02
  Mike and Germar Rudolph and David Cole the courage to really
• 1:06
  deal with everything. So I'm really thrilled to be
• 1:08
  someone in their company. Thanks.
• 1:10
  I just want to quickly go go to your name.
• 1:13
  You were telling me now, just before we started recording,
• 1:15
  what it means. Kiss the girl, did you say?
• 1:18
  So kiss means beso in in Spanish.
• 1:22
  So besada means a woman that has been kissed in the past.
• 1:26
  So my name is Jorge, woman that has been kissed in the past.
• 1:28
  So, you know, if I get married someday, my wife is going to
• 1:30
  have a very good name, you know, and he never brought me any
• 1:34
  problems growing up, surprisingly.
• 1:37
  OK, so I was born in Cuba and it, it's kind of unique.
• 1:40
  And I realised that later on growing up.
• 1:42
  I mean, I was born deep into, like, communist ideology.
• 1:45
  I was raised, you know, to be like the Soviet man.
• 1:48
  I mean, I was largely raised by my grandmother.
• 1:50
  She would pick me up from school.
• 1:50
  And she's someone who had like, APHD in biology.
• 1:53
  So she raised me like the whole Soviet thing.
• 1:55
  You're supposed to be good in chess and, you know, not really
• 1:58
  be religious. So I was born very, very deep
• 2:01
  into that. And, you know, in Cuba, like I
• 2:04
  remember having ice trucks. These are things that people in
• 2:07
  my generation don't have, but we used to, you know, a lot of
• 2:09
  times, you know, keep our food cold because a truck would
• 2:12
  deliver a big block of ice and then you would break it up and
• 2:14
  put it in your fridge. So that relates to like the
• 2:16
  communism and the poverty that that we sort of had.
• 2:18
  But that did play a big factor on me.
• 2:20
  Like 1, I left Cuba when I was 7.
• 2:22
  I came to Miami, which is like Cuba 2 point O when I was 11
• 2:26
  years old. I then while going to school,
• 2:29
  getting a degree in computer science, I took some courses on
• 2:32
  anthropology, you know, just 'cause I think he just pushed me
• 2:35
  from my grandmother, that the secularism.
• 2:37
  And that's where I stumble first upon Herbert Spencer, who was a
• 2:40
  very, who was a great evolutionary thinker.
• 2:43
  And Herbert Spencer is the guy that coined the phrase survival
• 2:45
  of the fittest. A lot of people don't know that.
• 2:48
  And he was a contemporary of Charles Darwin.
• 2:49
  Charles Darwin referred to Herbert Spencer as 20 times my
• 2:52
  superior. And he also said that everyone
• 2:54
  with eyes to see and ears to hear ought to bow their knee to
• 2:57
  you. And I for one, do so Herbert
• 2:59
  Spencer really got me in an evolutionary like perspective.
• 3:02
  And then once I once I graduated from college, I met a friend.
• 3:06
  His name was Ted, you know, hi, Ted.
• 3:08
  I have to, you know, say hello to him.
• 3:10
  And I got very lucky because a lot of us, you know, we grow up
• 3:13
  a lot of times we're not interested in anything.
• 3:14
  I never had an interested in reading in reading much.
• 3:17
  But Ted transformed my life. He we had a conversation very
• 3:20
  early after we started working and he said, hey, George, you
• 3:22
  really should read these two books.
• 3:23
  You should read Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene and a book
• 3:27
  called by Steven Levy called Artificial Life where computers
• 3:30
  meet biology. So Richard Doc in Selfish Gene,
• 3:32
  I'm sure a lot of people heard about it.
• 3:33
  If you go to Amazon.com right now, it's always like two or
• 3:36
  three on many Amazon.com bestsellers.
• 3:39
  And it's a book that tries to show in an evolutionary manner,
• 3:42
  looking at genetics and so on, why human beings can be so
• 3:44
  selfish but at the same time be so altruistic, but looked at
• 3:47
  from a very evolutionary perspective.
• 3:49
  But then the second book, you know, it's a book that shows how
• 3:53
  artificial life, you know, how in computers you can simulate
• 3:55
  evolution and you can end up creating, you know, self
• 3:58
  replicating molecules and you can eventually create kind of
• 4:01
  like living things. So my friend right there really
• 4:04
  pushed me in a much more evolutionary direction where you
• 4:06
  quickly, it got me thinking, it's like, wait a minute,
• 4:09
  evolution is something that creates not just a biological
• 4:11
  order, but also the entire social order and the entire
• 4:14
  economy and everything. And then just a few months
• 4:16
  later, same friend, he tells me, hey, George, you should read
• 4:20
  this book. It's called The Road to Serfdom
• 4:22
  by a very famous economist who won the Nobel Prize in 1974.
• 4:25
  And his name is Friedrich Hayek. So I read that book and the
• 4:29
  first time I read any book like in political economy or
• 4:32
  anything, I mean, I only understood like, you know, 10%
• 4:34
  of it, but it's not the book I would recommend people to get
• 4:36
  like into economics. But it did get me eventually
• 4:39
  down the path to meet the so called Austrian school
• 4:42
  economist, you know, that are really these men really are like
• 4:45
  the backbone of freedom. All the the free market
• 4:49
  movements that we've seen, I'm sure I'm assuming even in South
• 4:52
  Africa, you've heard of like Ron Paul, you familiar with Ron Paul
• 4:56
  And actually I'll be at his 90th birth, 90th birthday, which is
• 4:59
  coming up tomorrow. And so Ron Paul, when Ron Paul
• 5:03
  was a medical student at Duke University, he stumbled upon
• 5:06
  Hayek's the road to serve them. And that is what made him like
• 5:09
  like a free marketeer. Margaret Thatcher as well.
• 5:11
  She was an 18 year old student at Oxford when she read The Road
• 5:14
  to Serve and that got her into understanding freedom.
• 5:17
  Javier Miley, who is now a, you know, a free market guy in
• 5:20
  Argentina, he too stumbled upon one of the works of the
• 5:23
  Austrians. And, and it's great because he
• 5:24
  admitted that he had already been an economist, but he said
• 5:27
  that for 25 years everything I've been teaching was wrong
• 5:30
  until I stumbled upon the Austrians.
• 5:32
  And the last person I'll mention, Ayn Rand, a lot of
• 5:34
  people are familiar with her works.
• 5:36
  You know, she was a very pro capitalism person.
• 5:38
  And she too, she herself said that, quote, the greatest thing
• 5:41
  that ever happened to me regarding political economies
• 5:43
  was running into Ludwig von Mises.
• 5:45
  So that really is the foundation for a lot of her work.
• 5:49
  And so I eventually stumble up on these people and, and their
• 5:53
  and their ethos and really the ethos of what I try to do.
• 5:56
  I like Macy's, he said. Quote, all reasonable men are
• 6:00
  called upon to familiarise themselves with the teachings of
• 6:02
  economics. This is in our age, the primary
• 6:06
  civic duty. And you know, when you
• 6:08
  understand that it's economic ignorance that then leads to all
• 6:11
  the statism and all this coercion and this lack of
• 6:13
  prosperity, you know, like Meses, I'm like, wait a minute,
• 6:16
  we have to educate people. And so that's really like how I
• 6:22
  got, you know, to where I am. And and one more thing I'll say
• 6:24
  about like the Austrians is that they were, they were also
• 6:27
  something a lot of people don't realise.
• 6:28
  They were deep like evolutionary minded thinkers.
• 6:32
  They, they look at the root causes of like how things sort
• 6:34
  of like evolved, how our identities, how how our cultures
• 6:38
  like Co evolved with the entire economy.
• 6:41
  So. The the, the whole evolutionary
• 6:44
  aspect goes beyond biology. I mean, you have the evolution
• 6:49
  of culture and the evolution of societies.
• 6:52
  I think I got into Mises maybe about 11 years ago.
• 6:58
  I've had a love hate relationship since then with the
• 7:01
  sort of free market ideas because I've often found that
• 7:03
  that individuals who promote their work tend to focus only on
• 7:09
  on economics and tend to forget about the importance of of
• 7:13
  things that are downstream from culture.
• 7:15
  In other words, economics is downstream from culture.
• 7:18
  I mean, it's very complex and they really feed off of each
• 7:21
  other. So sometimes you can get a a
• 7:24
  bureaucrat or someone who comes up with good economic policy,
• 7:27
  and then that good economic policy can shape the culture.
• 7:31
  And you know, because, for example, economic competition
• 7:36
  also shapes our morals. It is hardworking, tolerant,
• 7:39
  courteous people who show up on time and treat everyone else
• 7:42
  with respect, who thanks to economic competition, motivate
• 7:45
  everyone else to be likewise right.
• 7:48
  So if you have the right economic policies, you
• 7:50
  inadvertently end up creating a culture of hard work, of
• 7:53
  tolerance, of treating everyone with respect and and so on.
• 7:56
  But you know, they really do grow from each other.
• 7:58
  And you know, so I'll tell you like 1-1 more quote that relates
• 8:01
  to this whole like evolutionary thing.
• 8:03
  So, so Friedrich Hayek, he mentioned, he mentioned the
• 8:06
  following. He said we understand now that
• 8:08
  all enduring structures above the level of the simplest atoms
• 8:11
  up to the brain and society are the results of and can be
• 8:15
  explained only in terms of processes of selective
• 8:19
  evolution. So to the Austrians and Hayek is
• 8:22
  like an evolutionary process shapes not just the biological
• 8:24
  order, but also like the social order culture.
• 8:27
  And this really relates to, to, to even how we look at, at the
• 8:31
  world, like do gentile conflicts.
• 8:33
  If we want to understand the chaos that's going on in
• 8:34
  Palestine, you know, we can't just say that, OK, these are the
• 8:38
  good guys or the bad guys. You know, in the animal Kingdom,
• 8:41
  when I think sometimes, like when a lion takes over a pride,
• 8:44
  you know, and they have, sometimes they'll kill the Cubs,
• 8:46
  the, the females can mate again or something like that, right?
• 8:49
  We we don't say that the lion is evil.
• 8:51
  Now we understand that there's an evolutionary reason why all
• 8:53
  these bad things happen. And to the Austrians, I think
• 8:56
  since they looked at things in a very evolutionary way, they also
• 8:59
  were very detached. They said, look, a lot of things
• 9:01
  are just the result of the complex evolution of history and
• 9:04
  the mistakes that people made. And we really want to understand
• 9:06
  these mistakes in order to like, you know, to make sense of
• 9:10
  things instead of just calling people like good and evil.
• 9:12
  Modern society becomes so artificial that it it moves so
• 9:17
  far away from natural order. Yeah, no, that, that is a great
• 9:20
  point. And and this has a lot to do
• 9:23
  also with economics. So like Friedrich Hayek, he was
• 9:25
  well aware that human beings evolved in this little tribal
• 9:28
  cultures where there was no money, where we intuitively
• 9:31
  share things, where there was a lot of violence, right.
• 9:34
  So we have carried those things. Those instincts are actually
• 9:37
  what motivate us in many ways to fall for for central planning,
• 9:40
  since we evolved in a world where there was no money, where
• 9:42
  there was no economic competition, where there was no
• 9:44
  interest rates, where there was there was no finance and
• 9:47
  banking. In today's modern world, all of
• 9:49
  those things are very foreign to our instincts.
• 9:51
  So the first thing that intuitively comes to us is if
• 9:54
  there is rich, if there's people who have more than the solution
• 9:57
  is just to take from the wealthy and redistribute.
• 10:00
  So there's a great book by David Rubin is called Darwinian
• 10:04
  Politics, where he tries to look also at how we have evolved in
• 10:07
  these little tribes and how those instincts make us less
• 10:11
  adapted to living in a modern world where we really need to
• 10:14
  respect private property and the freedom of people so that we
• 10:17
  have a like a prosperous society.
• 10:19
  But it is also true how we are again, our our instincts are not
• 10:25
  ideally suited to living in modernity.
• 10:27
  And we have to be aware of those things, how that makes us
• 10:29
  inadvertently far from communism, but to also know who
• 10:32
  we are, right. The kind of foods we ate.
• 10:34
  I know you had Nina Teals. I forgot her name.
• 10:38
  How in many ways, you know, we evolved to eat like more meat
• 10:41
  and, and, and just like a natural diet.
• 10:43
  And now we're living in this world with all this processed
• 10:45
  food. It is just one of those many
• 10:47
  areas where modernity has inadvertently shipped our
• 10:50
  environment, where we are totally detached from the
• 10:53
  evolutionary order where we were ideally made to like, you know,
• 10:58
  to thrive. And that's one of the things
• 10:59
  that we have to figure out. We have to be aware of those
• 11:01
  things and to see, well, how can we eat natural, you know, and
• 11:04
  how has modernity taken us away from this and how we can maybe,
• 11:08
  you know, find that type of balance.
• 11:09
  So again, the Austrians are really people who who help look
• 11:12
  at, you know, the how all this whole mess is kind of like a,
• 11:16
  you know, evolve. When you talk about Austrian
• 11:18
  economics, the layperson will assume you're talking about
• 11:22
  Austria. Right, right.
• 11:23
  It's not quite that. So the Austrian economics really
• 11:26
  comes from the fact that the main founder, this man called
• 11:29
  Karl Manger, he was from from that from that area.
• 11:33
  And Karl Manger, again, very important, he was a deep like
• 11:36
  evolutionary thinker. And he, one of his main
• 11:39
  contributions was to say, OK, we're going to study the, the
• 11:43
  social, we're going to study society as an Organism using
• 11:47
  the, using the tools of biology. So instead of having this world
• 11:50
  of mathematics and all these formulas or believing you can
• 11:52
  predict all these things, he said, no, no, no, The way to
• 11:54
  understand society is to try to see how things sort of have
• 11:56
  evolved and treat it as a social Organism.
• 11:59
  And one of these, what I like to call the like the flux capacitor
• 12:04
  discovery of like the social sciences is his, his, how he
• 12:10
  showed how money, OK money, it is vital for everything in money
• 12:15
  in modern society. Money is really what enables
• 12:17
  like the division of, of labour and information that creates
• 12:20
  like the social order. So this is a very important
• 12:22
  simple example. Like if you look at a tribal
• 12:24
  society, if you look at the, the content of people's minds, they
• 12:27
  all have the same information. Everybody knows how to just hunt
• 12:30
  some simple things, how to cook some simple meals.
• 12:32
  The information is repeated across every brain.
• 12:35
  But once you have trade, you have this every brain, the you
• 12:40
  have the division of information.
• 12:41
  Every brain can learn how to do just one thing.
• 12:44
  I can make coconut pastries. And then when I trade my coconut
• 12:47
  pastries for the guy who makes like, you know, chairs, I don't
• 12:52
  have to know anything about the chairs.
• 12:54
  I can trade my coconut pastries for the guy who makes Beaver
• 12:56
  pelts or, or brains or makes boats, and I don't have to know
• 13:00
  anything about the boats. So trade creates a division of
• 13:04
  information that then allows you to have a society where you can
• 13:07
  have doctors, computer programmers and all those
• 13:09
  things. So you can now have unlimited
• 13:11
  amounts of information. But in order for you to have
• 13:13
  trade, like you need to overcome what's called double coincidence
• 13:16
  of 1's problem. Like if I have my coconut
• 13:18
  pastries and I want to trade them for the guy who has the the
• 13:21
  Beaver pelt, what are the chances that he wants my coconut
• 13:24
  pastries? Very small chance.
• 13:26
  So once you have money, then anybody can trade and then the
• 13:30
  benefits of the division of information can spread through
• 13:33
  our whole society and then you can start just having progress
• 13:36
  and build living standards and so on.
• 13:38
  So without money, if we didn't have money tomorrow, in a matter
• 13:42
  of months, society would just collapse.
• 13:44
  You know, there would be no coordination, no production.
• 13:46
  And we go back to like, you know, living like living like
• 13:49
  primitive savages. So, but the key inside of
• 13:51
  Carmenger, he showed that money, which is something that is vital
• 13:55
  for economic competition, competition, profit or loss
• 13:57
  calculation, everything that creates the modern social order
• 14:00
  was not the result of our reason.
• 14:03
  We never had some great genius say, oh, we're going to invent
• 14:06
  money so we can overcome the division of, you know, the
• 14:09
  coins, double coins, There's a once problem, you know, so we
• 14:11
  can have profit and loss calculation, economic
• 14:13
  competition. We never had that.
• 14:15
  You know, it's just like the cells in your body over millions
• 14:17
  of years, they created the respiratory, the circulatory,
• 14:21
  the digestive systems that allow single cells to cooperate into
• 14:24
  multicellular systems. But obviously the cells did not
• 14:27
  design that right. The exact same thing happened
• 14:30
  with a social order, human beings, without realising it,
• 14:33
  they invented money and then they invented profit loss
• 14:36
  calculation and all the things that make the social Organism
• 14:39
  work without realising it. So that is a key insight that
• 14:43
  Karl Manger came up with that help further members of the
• 14:46
  Austrian school really understand why we fall for all
• 14:49
  this errors. You know, that's what socialism
• 14:51
  was in in the late 1800s. Society was getting so complex,
• 14:56
  you know, businessmen were creating so much wealth and
• 14:59
  people thought to themselves, wait a minute, this is unfair.
• 15:01
  Why have 20 businessmen get rich?
• 15:03
  Why not just have a couple of experts tell everybody else what
• 15:05
  to do? We can share the wealth.
• 15:08
  And that is what it led to. Socialist mythology spread.
• 15:11
  And then you'll bring about, you know, communism and so on.
• 15:14
  So anyway, I went on a big tangent there.
• 15:17
  Do you think that hyper individualism has also led to
• 15:21
  part of what we're seeing in the West now with the collapse,
• 15:25
  where people are no longer interested in their communities,
• 15:29
  families, because they're only interested in this in in
• 15:31
  themselves with their cell phone and their Airpods?
• 15:36
  I, I don't think so. I mean, one of the things I
• 15:38
  don't like about like libertarians sometimes and some
• 15:41
  of these hyper individualism, sometimes you run into some
• 15:43
  libertarians on hardcore free market people that they'll tell
• 15:45
  you, Oh, I have a right to have a nuclear weapon in my house.
• 15:49
  You know, who are you to tell me that I that I can't do this, I
• 15:51
  have a right to do this and this.
• 15:52
  And, and it is true. Some of these people are just
• 15:56
  like little automatons, you know, they're not thinking about
• 15:58
  society at large and how they affects the rest of society.
• 16:01
  So, so I see, I agree with you in that sense that there are a
• 16:03
  lot of hyper individualist that really just end up putting
• 16:06
  people off and so on. But I, I do think like the
• 16:10
  reason why we have a lot of these problems are people are so
• 16:12
  segregated as well. A lot of it just has to do with,
• 16:14
  with government intervention, you know, the governments, I
• 16:17
  mean, when in the United States, you're blowing $1.5 trillion
• 16:20
  every year to finance this massive military.
• 16:23
  I mean, that's as much wealth as the entire country of Spain
• 16:26
  produces. And, and, and you're, you're
• 16:28
  printing up all this money, all this debt, you know, ultimately
• 16:32
  just to, you know, to, to sustain Zionism actually, you
• 16:35
  know, and I, I do think that if we had a better economy, I do
• 16:40
  think people would, would not be as isolated, you know, but it is
• 16:44
  very hard to predict. We really can't predict what's
• 16:46
  going to happen once we get like sex robots and all of these
• 16:49
  things. So I, I do, that's, that's the
• 16:51
  thing. Like no one can really predict
• 16:53
  where freedom and how civilization is going to evolve.
• 16:56
  I, I hope it evolves in a way where, where we get in touch
• 16:58
  with our human nature. We know we're slightly smarter
• 17:00
  apes. We need other human beings
• 17:01
  around us. We need touch, we need
• 17:03
  friendships and all these things.
• 17:05
  But again, it's actually hard to predict.
• 17:06
  But to wrap up, I mean, I think what's really causing all these
• 17:09
  problems is is the economic ignorance that that leads to all
• 17:12
  the statism that makes it hard for people to, you know, to have
• 17:15
  kids. I mean, how how many women these
• 17:16
  days can really afford, you know, to have children?
• 17:19
  How many families can do it? It's getting harder and harder
• 17:21
  and harder. And then that has all kinds of
• 17:22
  other like, repercussions. So yeah, there's a lot of
• 17:24
  annoying pro freedom people. But at the same time, you know,
• 17:28
  I think the problem is more like the economic issues that tend to
• 17:31
  all the statism. It's also about trying to
• 17:34
  preserve a history and preserve a culture.
• 17:36
  Here in South Africa you've got the the bulls who became the
• 17:39
  Afrikaners. If if they were all hyper
• 17:43
  individuals there would be no Afrikaner culture.
• 17:46
  Well, you mentioned the wars and you guys in South Africa.
• 17:48
  I mean, I wish you had finished off Churchill when you had the
• 17:51
  opportunity. OK, He escaped, right, Right.
• 17:56
  And then he wrote all these things about how great he was.
• 17:58
  But. But yeah, I mean, you know, this
• 18:02
  really touches, you know, a lot of these conflicts.
• 18:05
  If, if, if everyone had a better understanding of freedom and
• 18:08
  free markets and we just respect their private property.
• 18:10
  And we have companies always competing against each other,
• 18:14
  innovating, you know, 'cause that's what free market
• 18:16
  competition does. It turns the entire planet into
• 18:18
  a supercomputer where every private sector company is
• 18:21
  innovating and copying the innovations of others,
• 18:24
  constantly spreading the best ideas to society, bringing
• 18:26
  prosperity. Like I said earlier, it also
• 18:28
  civilises us. And a lot of these chaos, we, we
• 18:32
  just have to find a way to educate people so that we no
• 18:36
  longer have this identity versus identity type of things, which
• 18:39
  obviously you have in South Africa.
• 18:41
  And I mean, and obviously the, the Israeli Palestinian chaos,
• 18:43
  just like, you know, grows from that.
• 18:46
  And I do very quickly. I wanted to throw another quote
• 18:48
  from Mises because since this man had this very evolutionary
• 18:51
  way of looking at things, they were also very sympathetic
• 18:54
  towards trying to understand our problems.
• 18:56
  So Mises said neither as judges allot in praise and blame, nor
• 19:00
  as Avengers seeking out the guilty, should we face the past.
• 19:03
  We seek truth, not guilt. We want to know how things came
• 19:06
  about, to understand them, not to issue condemnations.
• 19:10
  And one more, history should teach us to recognise causes and
• 19:13
  to understand driving forces. And when we understand
• 19:15
  everything, we will forgive everything.
• 19:18
  So again, that's part of the ethos of these men is it's about
• 19:21
  understanding because again, you know, it's all about blaming
• 19:25
  each other, you know, who are the good guys, who are the bad
• 19:27
  guys? And that's just driving us, you
• 19:29
  know, to more conflicts. A lot of people fool themselves
• 19:32
  into thinking that just because modernity and modern capitalism
• 19:35
  arose from Europe, where we got the industrial revolution and so
• 19:38
  on, this leads to a lot of misguided, like racialist type
• 19:41
  of thinking. And you can't really blame for
• 19:43
  white people for feeling like, oh, you know, modernity came up
• 19:46
  in Europe and then therefore it must be somehow tied to our
• 19:48
  genes. That's a very popular fallacy.
• 19:50
  And it's the root of a lot of this, you know, white ethno
• 19:52
  nationalist, you know, kind of nonsense.
• 19:54
  But again, as Meses himself even mentioned, Meses said, like, if
• 19:57
  you look at modern civilization, it arose from other
• 20:00
  civilizations. I mean, where would we be if it
• 20:02
  if it wasn't, you know, for, for the Egyptians, I mean, the, the
• 20:06
  Arabic numerals, you know, where those things come from, you
• 20:09
  know, so right. And, and a lot of civilizations
• 20:12
  that were in the Middle East and in other places where we didn't
• 20:14
  have, you know, the pasty white people and, and we are seeing
• 20:17
  right now. What, what you're hinting at,
• 20:20
  you know, the Chinese are the ones that are, they're not
• 20:22
  getting stuck up with all these like weird things that we're
• 20:24
  doing. Sure, they had the, the
• 20:26
  communist experiment, they survived it.
• 20:28
  But now, I mean, I've been to China and again, you just have
• 20:31
  people working and it makes sense why they are, you know,
• 20:36
  overtaking us. You mentioned Hayek's book, The
• 20:39
  Road to Serfdom. It's was, it's one of the first
• 20:42
  books that I read from, from that sort of category of of
• 20:45
  ideas. But you've spoken a lot about
• 20:48
  Mises. I think the only book I've read
• 20:50
  of his is Human Action, but it is a great book.
• 20:53
  Wow. Wow.
• 20:55
  I mean, yeah, that is a great book.
• 20:57
  And actually, you know, in Human Action, I mean, there's so much
• 21:01
  wisdom in there. And one of the sections in Human
• 21:04
  Action, I wrote a little article about it at the Mises Institute,
• 21:06
  is called The Fight Against Error.
• 21:07
  So there's a section in there where Mises talks about how we
• 21:10
  really need to fight errors. Mises says that we cannot get
• 21:13
  too deep into the moral sphere and make people who have
• 21:16
  different views from us into, like, evil.
• 21:18
  And Mises rightly notice how you get a lot of that between, like,
• 21:21
  the religious Catholic people and the Marxists.
• 21:24
  You know, they were attacking each other.
• 21:25
  I mean, obviously the Marxists saw religious people as
• 21:27
  irrational people that you needed to get rid of to have
• 21:29
  your socialist Nirvana. And religious people made the
• 21:32
  mistake of referring to the communist as satanic, as evil.
• 21:36
  So when you have that attitude, as Mises said, you know, no
• 21:39
  social cooperation, you know, can be found there.
• 21:41
  And the same thing applies to the Israeli Palestinian
• 21:43
  conflict. A lot of people want to say that
• 21:46
  the Israelis are just, you know, a bunch of evil, you know,
• 21:48
  conquerors, especially from the very left wing, The very left
• 21:50
  wing lost to equate Israel with racist capitalism, right?
• 21:56
  You know, without really looking at the complex history of anti
• 21:58
  Semitism and so on. And then the Jews, the Israelis
• 22:00
  unfortunately do the same thing. You know, they just say all
• 22:02
  these guys are a bunch of like extremists, you know, you know,
• 22:05
  terrorists and so on. But getting back to the road to
• 22:08
  serve them, right, So that book is really one of two ways in
• 22:13
  which the Austrians saved like civilization a little earlier
• 22:17
  before the road to serve them. So Ludwig von Mises, when the
• 22:20
  Bolsheviks took over, Ludwig von Mises by himself, and I really
• 22:24
  want to read this little quote here from Mises by himself.
• 22:29
  He managed to talk to the Austrian politicians and he
• 22:33
  persuaded them, just one man against joining the Bolsheviks
• 22:37
  and becoming like a part of the Soviet Union.
• 22:39
  I mean, that's incredible. So I got a little quote from
• 22:41
  Mises. This is what he what he said
• 22:42
  about his life in 1919. He said there were few who
• 22:45
  recognised the state of affairs. Clearly people were so convinced
• 22:48
  of the inevitability of Bolshevism that their main
• 22:51
  concern was securing a federal place for themselves in the new
• 22:53
  order. The Catholic Church and its
• 22:55
  followers, the Christian Social Party, were prepared to befriend
• 22:59
  the Bolsheviks with the same eagerness with which the bishops
• 23:01
  and archbishops would embrace National Socialism 20 years
• 23:04
  later. And Mises said the most
• 23:06
  important task I undertook was the 4th starting of a Bolshevest
• 23:10
  takeover. The fact that events did not
• 23:11
  lead to such a regime change in Vienna was my success and mine
• 23:16
  alone. Few supported me in my efforts.
• 23:18
  I alone convinced Bauer, you know, the leading politicians to
• 23:21
  abandon the idea of seeking union with Moscow.
• 23:25
  So Mises again, incredible that one man was able to do that.
• 23:29
  And then this ties into Hayek because Mises, for a while he he
• 23:32
  kind of hired Hayek, you know, to be a part of like a think
• 23:35
  tank in Austria. And then just a few years later,
• 23:38
  Mrs would write in 1922, he would write a book, Socialism,
• 23:42
  which was just like, you know, incredible.
• 23:44
  And then Hayek read that book and that really transformed him.
• 23:48
  It helped him. And then Hayek got a job at the
• 23:50
  at the London School of Economics, where quickly Hayek
• 23:52
  became like one of the most respected people there.
• 23:55
  And then during the end of the Second World War, that's when
• 23:57
  Hayek realised that the British, they think that because they
• 24:00
  have a democracy that they're going to be shielded from the
• 24:03
  hardcore tyranny that Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union
• 24:06
  got. But Hayek got the idea to write
• 24:08
  the Road to serve them, to warn them.
• 24:09
  They, they kept asking for all this government stuff, more
• 24:12
  power to a central competition, immune course of bureaucracy
• 24:15
  that they were on the way, you know, to the road to serve them.
• 24:17
  And that's when he wrote that book and another nice little
• 24:21
  tidbit in there. When Hyatt wrote that book, he
• 24:24
  was expected to come to the United States and just go on a
• 24:26
  little speaking toward to some small campuses, you know, or
• 24:29
  whatever. But thanks to Henry Haslett was
• 24:32
  another. Henry Haslett wrote Economics in
• 24:34
  One Lesson, which is that the most widely read economics book.
• 24:37
  So Henry Haslett was working at the New York Times at the time
• 24:39
  and he read Hayek's book and he loved it.
• 24:41
  And he managed to put a great review of the book on the front
• 24:44
  page of the reader's section of The New York Times.
• 24:47
  So that created a sensation of like, interest in the book.
• 24:51
  So when how he came to the United States, his first talk
• 24:53
  was given him like a basketball stadium to like 3000 people.
• 24:57
  And then later on, I, I just want to throw in another great
• 25:00
  like champion of like freedom. There was a gentleman, his name
• 25:02
  is Max Eastman, and he was the most, one of the most famous
• 25:05
  socialists in the United States. This is a man that had gone to
• 25:08
  Moscow in the 1920s who was a good friend of Trotsky.
• 25:11
  He translated Trotsky's works into English, but Max Eastman
• 25:15
  stumbled upon Meses and Hayek and he made a 180 and he became
• 25:18
  a free marketeer. So he took Hayek's book, The
• 25:20
  Road to serve them, and he created a condensed version,
• 25:23
  which is only 40 pages, and that managed to be sold to over a
• 25:26
  million homes in the United States.
• 25:29
  And that ended up educating so many people like, you know, Ron
• 25:32
  Paul, I think I might have mentioned earlier, he was a
• 25:35
  medical student at Duke University when he stumbled upon
• 25:37
  and also Margaret Thatcher Milton.
• 25:39
  Friedman. Milton Friedman, he, he was a
• 25:43
  big fan of Hayek and he even mentioned that that Hayek, you
• 25:46
  know, played a big role. I don't know how much Milton
• 25:48
  Friedman's education came from meses.
• 25:50
  I think, you know, since they were around the same time, I
• 25:51
  think his major ideologues were other people.
• 25:53
  He was another, but he was another person who was greatly
• 25:55
  influenced by the by the Austrians.
• 25:57
  So I got between Mises and Hayek, between Mises saving us
• 26:00
  from joining the Bolsheviks, and Hayek with his role to serve
• 26:02
  them it. They really did like safe
• 26:04
  civilization almost twice. Have you noticed how many people
• 26:08
  are suddenly pulled back into the system because of somebody
• 26:11
  like Donald Trump? Because now suddenly the state
• 26:15
  is the good guy again, but it's the same state that was
• 26:20
  oppressing. People.
• 26:23
  Yeah. And I mean, this is something a
• 26:26
  lot of us, you know, have noticed.
• 26:27
  I mean, in many ways it has helped a little bit, right?
• 26:30
  Because the COVID mania tyranny, I mean, it got so many of us to
• 26:34
  wake up and say, OK, something needs, needs to happen.
• 26:37
  I mean, this is very personal because if I was, I was working,
• 26:40
  I had a comfortable job at Microsoft.
• 26:42
  You know, when the COVID mania tyranny came.
• 26:45
  And by the time COVID mania tyranny came, I, I've already
• 26:48
  been in the world of freedom. I, I, I, I understand the
• 26:51
  Bolshevik revolution, how, how the masses through economic
• 26:54
  ignorance can just self mutilate.
• 26:56
  And that really motivated me to, to, to get off my butt and get
• 26:59
  more involved. Maybe the reason why you stumble
• 27:01
  up on me now, because there's a, there's thousands of
• 27:03
  libertarians and people like myself.
• 27:05
  Well, we read books, we're writing a little book or
• 27:07
  something. But it took the covet mania to
• 27:09
  say, OK, wait a minute. You know, I got to get out
• 27:11
  there. I got to meet other people, you
• 27:12
  know, I got to get involved and do something.
• 27:14
  And, and this also helped fuel like the Javier Miley revolution
• 27:17
  as well. It was the covet tyranny.
• 27:19
  When you look at Javiers malaise, what he did in
• 27:21
  Argentina, the COVID mania, Tyrion and the lockdowns, it
• 27:24
  really motivated him and many like minded people to try to do
• 27:26
  something. And I like to call it the
• 27:28
  Korominism, you know? So yeah.
• 27:31
  And yeah, that's why just like you said, we're noticing that we
• 27:35
  need to understand, you know, the history of the 20th century.
• 27:39
  And it's really the good thing is that thanks to these men, to
• 27:41
  these Austrians that explain all of these things and the Milton
• 27:43
  Friedman are all of these people that now our generation has to
• 27:47
  really like nip it in the butt. I mean, we really have to like,
• 27:49
  finish this. If if, if freedom is something
• 27:52
  that matters to you then then relying less on the government
• 27:59
  should be a no brainer. Yeah, but you know, it's very
• 28:02
  important, you know, to realise that, for example, you, I mean,
• 28:05
  you already read human action. I mean, you're someone who is
• 28:08
  deep in in the freedom world. But we have to realise that the
• 28:13
  masses are clueless, right? The people are clueless.
• 28:17
  If, if, if there is no people out there.
• 28:19
  There's another quote. I mean, I don't remember it, but
• 28:20
  but Mises said that liberalism is rationalistic.
• 28:23
  It believes that with reason we can, we can educate the immense
• 28:28
  masses. I mean, I'm butchering the
• 28:29
  quote, you know. And Mises also says that it
• 28:33
  could be that liberals are wrong, that maybe we can't
• 28:35
  convince the masses. But if, but if we do not even
• 28:38
  try, if we don't have the, if we don't have the attitude where we
• 28:40
  think that we can educate the masses, then there's no whole
• 28:42
  life for mankind. If, if those of us who know
• 28:44
  better don't educate people, then we're, we're obviously
• 28:47
  going to have more socialism, more, more statism and we see it
• 28:50
  all around us. So I mean, that too is part of
• 28:51
  the Misesian ethos. So we have to realise that those
• 28:54
  of us who are for individual rights, for, for self reliance
• 28:58
  on a lot of this stuff, a lot of times we don't realise that we
• 29:00
  got lucky and we stumble upon the right ideas and we have to
• 29:04
  go out there and educate these people.
• 29:06
  Even though I, I understand 90% of the time they're calling you
• 29:08
  names, they're calling you a right wing extremist and that
• 29:11
  kind of stuff. And but again, you know, we have
• 29:13
  to be, we have to spread the econo gospel.
• 29:16
  That's what I like to call it. You are aware, though, that a
• 29:19
  number of my listeners are going to dismiss a lot of what you're
• 29:24
  saying because you mentioned Miley, for example, and he's a
• 29:26
  Zionist. That's that's a great point.
• 29:31
  And but that just goes to show how very bright people can still
• 29:36
  make monumental errors, right? And again, you know, I have to
• 29:41
  throw a great high quote, which really applies not only because
• 29:44
  I like to see Zionism as a massive intellectual error that
• 29:48
  fooled a lot of bright people, just like communism, right?
• 29:53
  I can't say my grandmother was a hardcore communist, was either
• 29:56
  stupid or evil. And to me, we have to look at
• 30:00
  the Zionist the same way, people who understandably fool
• 30:03
  themselves into a monumental calamity.
• 30:05
  So this is what Hayek said. Hayek said most people are still
• 30:09
  unwilling to face the most alarming lesson of modern
• 30:11
  history, that the greatest crimes of our time have been
• 30:14
  committed by governments that had the enthusiastic support of
• 30:16
  millions of people who were guided by moral impulses.
• 30:20
  It is simply not true that Hitler or Mussolini, Lenin or
• 30:24
  Stalin appealed only to the worst instincts of their people.
• 30:27
  They also appeal to some of the feelings which also dominate
• 30:30
  contemporary democracies. Boom.
• 30:33
  And the Zionists are out there thinking that they have the
• 30:35
  moral high ground that that no matter what happens, if they
• 30:38
  have to expel the Palestinians, this is all, you know, we're
• 30:41
  doing the moral thing. They're the irrational
• 30:43
  terrorists. So it's a, it's a great quote
• 30:45
  showing how, you know, we can fool ourselves into these things
• 30:48
  and. One of the problems with
• 30:50
  individualism is that it opens more people up to the idea of
• 30:56
  globalism and therefore infiltration of the mind by sort
• 31:01
  of these these big agendas that are going on around us.
• 31:04
  And, and, and therefore it's important to have a collective
• 31:09
  group of people who can buffer against or you can resist.
• 31:13
  You know that in other words, a sovereign state.
• 31:15
  I'm. Very sympathetic to, to that
• 31:17
  sort of thinking, you know, in a way because I think the push for
• 31:23
  globalism, I mean, globalism is also just global free trade.
• 31:27
  It's also the respect of individual rights, you know, for
• 31:29
  people all over the world. So we don't, you know, there are
• 31:33
  two forces kind of like pushing, you have people who feel like,
• 31:36
  wait a minute, I should be free to, to maybe travel to South
• 31:38
  Africa or, or, or live there or marry someone from there.
• 31:42
  So on the one hand, the globalism, the good globalism is
• 31:45
  just more integration, more freedom for people to respect
• 31:48
  individual rights and so on. But at the same time, again, the
• 31:51
  world is very complex. We're also realising that if you
• 31:53
  just have something like, you know, like open borders, right?
• 31:56
  You know, then suddenly an entire culture or language that
• 32:00
  took thousands of years to develop can suddenly be wiped
• 32:03
  out by an invading. We're seeing that happening
• 32:06
  across Europe of. Course that is happening in
• 32:09
  Europe and so on. So I, I am very sympathetic
• 32:12
  towards the people who feel like, wait a minute, just
• 32:14
  because I want to have some kind of like borders and I want to be
• 32:17
  able to prevent our language and our culture or even if it's our,
• 32:20
  our, our DNA, you know, I don't think those people should be
• 32:24
  vilified, you know, as being like, you know, the precursors
• 32:27
  to like the Nazis and so on. I mean, as long as we
• 32:30
  understand, you know, some some basic things, but I, I can see
• 32:34
  how that then relates, you know, because then we get some real
• 32:35
  hardcore Nazis, you know, some people say, oh, I don't want any
• 32:38
  immigrants, you know, this kind of stuff.
• 32:40
  So, yeah, so it's very tricky. You know, I think we should just
• 32:43
  do our best to understand all of these complexities and then have
• 32:46
  some like reasonable policy that is not based on just pure
• 32:49
  racism, you know, or coercing people to have their culture
• 32:52
  destroyed, you know, because I, you know, so, yeah, it's very
• 32:56
  complex. So the best we can do is just
• 32:57
  understand and. Or or.
• 32:59
  For example, if a group of individuals want to create their
• 33:04
  own town, then they should be free to do so.
• 33:08
  Yeah, of course, right, right. And that gets to anarcho
• 33:11
  capitalism, you know, and Mary Rob, I mean, you know, because
• 33:13
  if competition is how we discover the best way to build
• 33:16
  products, why not have competition in legal systems,
• 33:20
  right. So yeah, of course people should
• 33:21
  have the freedom to do all those things.
• 33:22
  I'm totally fine with with some hyper race to say, well, only
• 33:25
  white people are going to be allowed in here.
• 33:27
  I don't think it's ever going to happen because people naturally,
• 33:30
  based on the connections that they make out of work, you know,
• 33:32
  and so on. So a lot of people fear this
• 33:35
  hyper, you know, racism, but it's not really going to happen
• 33:38
  if you just have freedom. Human beings will discover that
• 33:41
  we're all just homo sapiens and it'll evolve a culture, you
• 33:43
  know, all that. So yeah, I, I'm totally fine.
• 33:46
  Yeah. And who knows what's going to
• 33:47
  happen too. I mean, we are getting all of
• 33:49
  these changes, whether it's sex, robots, all kinds of, I mean,
• 33:53
  I'm against, you know, a lot of these things.
• 33:54
  I understand how, you know, it took 4 billion years to create
• 33:57
  something as as well made as a human being.
• 34:00
  And a lot of these experts think that with the little pills,
• 34:02
  right? I mean, you and I know that all
• 34:04
  these pills just destroy the biochemical order.
• 34:07
  You know, that took 4 billion years to create.
• 34:09
  So just like in the social order, this this stupid central
• 34:12
  planners think that they can better coordinate society and
• 34:14
  they actually destroy something that evolved, you know, through
• 34:17
  freedom and exchange. They're doing the same thing
• 34:19
  with medicine. You know, they're destroying the
• 34:20
  biochemical order. Anyway, I got in a weird tangent
• 34:22
  there, but. It's a book by Human Hop called
• 34:25
  Democracy the God that Failed. And I keep going back to that
• 34:29
  because he he speaks about monarchy being preferable to
• 34:34
  democracy. And one of his arguments is that
• 34:38
  a monarch owns his land, so therefore it's private property.
• 34:43
  Sure. I mean, it's a great book,
• 34:44
  right? The Marcus of the God, I felt I
• 34:45
  read it as well. And yeah, he he, I remember
• 34:48
  being shocked, you know, by that thing where we're like a monarch
• 34:51
  really has to control his country, his private property,
• 34:53
  and treat it well instead of the Democratic politicians that just
• 34:55
  plunder the whole thing. And I can totally see how if we
• 34:59
  have more freedom, you know, I can see Elon Musk by his own
• 35:02
  city and then he can become his own little monarch there.
• 35:06
  And but those are things that you and I tolerate because we
• 35:09
  understand, you know, how freedom works.
• 35:12
  So I can totally see that happening.
• 35:13
  And, you know, I look forward to that.
• 35:15
  I look forward to a Motown themed city, you know, where
• 35:18
  it's about, you know, the great singers in Motown or having a
• 35:20
  city where the people dress it up in their mediaeval ways.
• 35:23
  And because the the truth is that as long as the masses
• 35:27
  remain ignorant, what good does it do us to have our own little
• 35:31
  island where maybe we have a little bit of freedom, but the
• 35:33
  masses destroy the worldwide division of labour in a nuclear
• 35:36
  war, you know, the Zionist calamity sparks another World
• 35:39
  War, you know. So economic education is really.
• 35:43
  What do you think is our natural way of doing things?
• 35:48
  Let's just say that you and I are dumped into an island in the
• 35:51
  middle of nowhere. If you and I end up in an
• 35:53
  island, you and I understand like freedom, we have already
• 35:57
  inherited a culture that respects other people.
• 36:00
  So there's all this software that took thousands of years to
• 36:02
  get into our minds. So I'm sure we would do, you
• 36:04
  know, great, right? But the truth is like
• 36:07
  instinctively we're, we're dangerous animals, you know, I
• 36:12
  mean, human beings. We can use our wisdom to make
• 36:14
  like our nukes. I mean, assuming the nukes
• 36:15
  exist, you know, and you know, the, the Spanish Inquisitors had
• 36:20
  a lot of wisdom, but they used that wisdom to create torture
• 36:23
  devices, you know, to do all kinds of things.
• 36:25
  So you know it intuitively. We have to realise that
• 36:29
  modernity just arose in the last 10,000 years, 10,000 years ago
• 36:33
  we were out there having sex with animals.
• 36:36
  You know, we were, there's a reason why the Bible tells you,
• 36:38
  tells women, you know, do not lay with a beast because 10,000
• 36:42
  years ago, before we civilised ourselves to respect private
• 36:44
  property, you know, we were wild animalistic people.
• 36:48
  So that that's very important. We have to realise that we are
• 36:51
  this dangerous, you know, tribal animals.
• 36:53
  So I think you and I would be great as long as we educate
• 36:55
  people and and so on and we keep the culture going, but we could
• 36:59
  descend into like tribal, you know, chaos.
• 37:03
  You've read. You've read Lord of the Flies.
• 37:05
  I was thinking about, I have not read that, but I remember in
• 37:07
  high school they were giving that to everyone and it's about
• 37:09
  some young kids that end up doing that kind of stuff.
• 37:11
  I was about to bring it up. I haven't read it.
• 37:14
  Basically what you're arguing or it is everybody must be left
• 37:21
  alone and the government should butt out of everybody's lives.
• 37:25
  What I'm arguing is what miss is arguing is for people to
• 37:28
  understand freedom, you know, because if everybody right now
• 37:31
  understood free market economics and then the government just
• 37:33
  cuts down in size, then we will have our private cities.
• 37:36
  You know, instead of having your court building be this massive
• 37:40
  structure with this God like priest with with a with a robe,
• 37:43
  we would have efficient legal systems.
• 37:45
  So we would just have skyrocketing, you know,
• 37:48
  prosperity. So I mean, that's again.
• 37:51
  And if I say anything that makes sense, remember it's because I
• 37:53
  got lucky and I stumbled upon the Austrians, you know, so I
• 37:56
  think we just have like, you know, sky rocketing prosperity.
• 38:01
  I. Think it was molten Friedman who
• 38:03
  said that if the government took control of the Sahara Desert,
• 38:07
  they'll be a shortage of sand in the next five years.
• 38:11
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great quote.
• 38:14
  You see in in the private sector every living thing, every
• 38:18
  orderly thing is in a never ending cycle of production and
• 38:22
  consumption. You know an animal in the wild
• 38:24
  like a lion, right? He has to produce, he has to
• 38:27
  hunt a zebra. So he produces something then he
• 38:30
  consumes it, right? And he has a profit, something
• 38:32
  that that he can then consume while he keeps like living.
• 38:35
  Every order in the private sector is always doing profit
• 38:38
  and loss calculation. Every business has sells revenue
• 38:41
  that is a sign of how much you have produced.
• 38:43
  Then you have costs, which is a sign of how much you have
• 38:46
  consumed. And then you have profit, which
• 38:48
  is really a sign of by how much more you have grown the economic
• 38:51
  pie. Right.
• 38:52
  But the government is a massive social structure that doesn't do
• 38:56
  profit or loss calculation. It just taxes, taxes, taxes and
• 39:01
  and the bureaucracy also doesn't have to compete.
• 39:03
  I mean, I, again, I think I mentioned it earlier.
• 39:05
  I mean, competition is what turns the entire social order
• 39:08
  into a supercomputer where every private sector business is
• 39:11
  motivated to innovate, but competition forces it to copy
• 39:15
  the innovations of competitors. So I don't know who came up with
• 39:18
  power door locks on power windows.
• 39:19
  He might have been a Honda engineer in Tokyo, but then
• 39:22
  competition motivated BMW in Germany, Chevy, Ford in the US
• 39:26
  to copy the power door locks idea.
• 39:28
  So again, that's only in the private sector.
• 39:31
  That is why as as freedom increased in Europe, thanks to
• 39:34
  our evolving morals, we got, you know, capitalism and the
• 39:38
  government is just a course of competition, mean monopoly that
• 39:40
  doesn't have that it destroys civilization.
• 39:42
  But this is, you know, the inside of the Austrian since
• 39:45
  since this prosperity arose without people planning it,
• 39:48
  we're fooled. We're like cells in a body that
• 39:51
  suddenly said instead of doing what we've been doing for 4
• 39:53
  billion years, let's use a reason and start trying to
• 39:56
  tinkle with everything and we just destroy the, you know, the
• 40:00
  social order. Criticisms you might get as
• 40:02
  well. Look at an organisation like
• 40:04
  Microsoft or Google or Facebook. These are supposedly private
• 40:07
  companies, but they are so powerful, more powerful than
• 40:11
  many governments, that they can actually control the outcomes of
• 40:15
  social order. I mean, I mean that that's a
• 40:17
  great point. And but again, like these things
• 40:20
  would not be happen like if, if, if more people found like you
• 40:23
  and we understood, you know, how the big corporations can start
• 40:26
  influence the government, you know, to do all kinds of
• 40:28
  nefarious things, you know, and if the government, the
• 40:30
  government right now controls everything, you know, about 40%
• 40:33
  of our wealth is sent to this massive bureaucracy.
• 40:36
  If we had more people who understood these things, then we
• 40:38
  wouldn't have these problems. So I mean, I, I understand,
• 40:41
  especially now look at someone like Alex Karp and, and
• 40:43
  Palantir, right? We're we're getting the
• 40:45
  evolution of, you know, the, the NKVD, but pro Zionism, you know,
• 40:50
  it, it will soon, we will soon. Just like in the COVID mania, we
• 40:53
  have the, the perverse incentives that let Pfizer stock
• 40:56
  to get really high and the CEO of Pfizer telling us that if
• 40:59
  you're not getting a vaccine, you know, you're like a
• 41:00
  criminal. I mean, we're really seeing the
• 41:02
  same thing. But with, with the ruling
• 41:04
  mythology of our day, with the Zionism, you know, there's a lot
• 41:08
  of money to be made now in branding people anti Semites,
• 41:11
  you know, controlling the anti Semites.
• 41:13
  And, and yeah, I mean, and, and Microsoft actually, while I was
• 41:15
  working at Microsoft, I already saw the marriage between
• 41:19
  Microsoft is getting all these big government contracts, right?
• 41:22
  They're getting all these big government contracts.
• 41:24
  So now more and more of their revenue comes from a juicy
• 41:27
  government contract instead of competing out there.
• 41:29
  So they can start going along with all the silly regulations
• 41:32
  and start perversing their own incentives.
• 41:34
  So yeah, I mean, but but the key is for us to understand all
• 41:37
  these things and to I mean, it's not like I'm for it.
• 41:39
  I'm I am totally for some regulations, but we just have to
• 41:42
  have a a well educated public. Ultimately, what you're seeing
• 41:45
  is not really true competition. You mentioned now you mentioned
• 41:50
  Palantir, Google, Facebook, they are all in bed with various
• 41:54
  governments. That's how they got up there.
• 41:56
  Yeah, exactly. Especially Palantir and we know
• 41:58
  big Pharma, I mean big pharma, where would Moderna be if it
• 42:03
  wasn't for all the money they got for the COVID mania?
• 42:05
  And, and in, in the US, this big pharmaceutical companies, they
• 42:09
  all exist because of all the freebies that Medicare, you
• 42:12
  know, since the elderly get free healthcare and all the freebies
• 42:15
  just go to the, to the corporations that are pushing
• 42:18
  all of the myths. That's what we need for the
• 42:21
  masses to understand real competition that leads to the
• 42:24
  real better ideas instead of having, you know, the government
• 42:27
  create all this myths, you know. I, I, I think that's the lesson
• 42:30
  that's coming through you is the importance of competition.
• 42:34
  But it's also important to remind people that, again, the
• 42:37
  competition in the economy is not a competition of like, I'm
• 42:40
  going to get killed, you know, or something like that.
• 42:42
  All it is, is just a mechanism for creating and spreading the
• 42:45
  best ideas to society, that that's all it does.
• 42:49
  It just, again, one entrepreneur comes up with something, the
• 42:52
  competitors have to copy it. That leads to society producing
• 42:55
  wealth at a faster rate, so you have more wealth.
• 42:58
  And then competition between labourers forces them to pay us
• 43:02
  more for for our wages. So again, competition.
• 43:06
  People just really need to make the connection.
• 43:07
  And Friedrich Hayek, he wrote 2 classic papers.
• 43:10
  One is called The Use of Knowledge in Society in which I
• 43:13
  highly recommend. And he wrote another one for
• 43:15
  example, called competition as a Discovery procedure.
• 43:19
  He's telling you everything right there.
• 43:21
  You know, that competition is just the mechanism that spreads
• 43:23
  knowledge and technology and prosperity to the society and
• 43:27
  how government being a competition immune course of
• 43:29
  bureaucracy that doesn't have to learn, it just destroys things.
• 43:33
  So if we can get more people to want, that's one of the things I
• 43:35
  really like about Hayek. He had this this focus on
• 43:37
  information, which I think makes it easy to understand.
• 43:41
  You know how knowledge moves, you know, through society.
• 43:44
  Do you think, therefore, that a government should not have a
• 43:49
  monopoly of violence? Yeah, now we're getting into
• 43:52
  like this whole capitalist stuff.
• 43:54
  And yeah, I think we we should. If the government does have a
• 43:57
  monopoly on violence, that means that somebody else will a little
• 44:01
  private city or something like that.
• 44:04
  And now we will have competition in legal systems.
• 44:07
  So, yeah, I mean private cities, you know, again, those are
• 44:11
  anarcho capitalism. And so I just want to throw Mary
• 44:13
  Rothbard's name in there, who was one of the great Austrians
• 44:15
  who wrote a lot about that. And David Friedman to the son of
• 44:18
  Milton Friedman, he wrote a classic book called The
• 44:20
  Machinery of Freedom that I highly recommend that also looks
• 44:23
  at anarcho capitalism. But many people have different
• 44:26
  ways of coming to to anarcho capitalism or even the economy
• 44:29
  in general. There's the moral path that says
• 44:32
  that it is that people have a like a God given right to
• 44:34
  private property, and that's one way to treat the legal system.
• 44:38
  And then there's the utilitarian path that says, well, maybe I
• 44:41
  don't take my morality from some God, but I just think that this
• 44:44
  works better, right? So Milton, David Friedman's
• 44:48
  Machinery of Freedom is a utilitarian look at anarchical
• 44:51
  capitalism. Well, Mary Rothbard is more
• 44:53
  like, like a moral thing, Like we have a right, you know, to be
• 44:55
  able to create like our own state or something like that.
• 44:58
  Let me give you an example. Here in South Africa, our
• 45:01
  private security force outnumbers our police force by
• 45:06
  4:00 to 1:00, which means that people believe or trust in the
• 45:12
  in private, in private police way more than they trust in the
• 45:16
  state police. Yeah, that that's a great
• 45:19
  example. And I think in the US is
• 45:21
  similar. I'm sure there's a lot more
• 45:23
  private police. And I'm also reminded in places
• 45:26
  like Disney World in Florida, you know, they have their own
• 45:29
  private police there. And Disney World is like, it's
• 45:31
  like a mini city, right? So those are great examples to
• 45:35
  to tell people, I mean, look at a small country like Granada,
• 45:39
  right? If a small country like Granada,
• 45:41
  which has like a population of 140,000 people or whatever, if
• 45:45
  we allowed Microsoft or Elon Musk, you know, to buy a similar
• 45:48
  sized chunk of land, couldn't Elon with all his geniuses and
• 45:51
  all his great computer programmer buddies, couldn't
• 45:53
  they manage a better way to to like run security?
• 45:56
  Of course. I mean, we just got to let
• 45:57
  people try it. So yeah, those are great
• 45:58
  examples to get people to open up their minds.
• 46:01
  You are aware, though, that many in my audience hate Elon Musk
• 46:04
  because he's a technocrat. Yeah, the truth is like, it's
• 46:10
  very hard for us to know behind the scenes what exactly is in
• 46:13
  Elon's mind. Elon Musk know way more than
• 46:18
  than he lets you know. You know, look, and I am
• 46:21
  reminded when when, when Javier Miley was deep into his election
• 46:26
  and he was about to win. Elon Musk has a huge bromance
• 46:28
  with Javier Miley regarding economics.
• 46:31
  He brought him over, he took him to the Tesla factory and so on.
• 46:34
  And while the whole election with Miley was going on, Elon
• 46:37
  Musk shared 2 memes. He shared a meme with a picture
• 46:41
  of Hayek, the road to serve them.
• 46:43
  And he said that Hayek was his favourite economist.
• 46:46
  And then he shared another meme because you know, Hayek has
• 46:48
  that's the same name as Salma Hayek the, the, the hot actress.
• 46:53
  So he had, he shared a meme with Salma Hayek with a wonderful
• 46:56
  Hayek quote. And the quote said that the most
• 46:58
  important thing we could do, you know, to ensure prosperity is to
• 47:02
  educate people about economics, you know, which is again, is
• 47:05
  everything I'm about what the Austrians were about.
• 47:07
  So the fact that Elon Musk, the world's most wealthy man, finds
• 47:12
  Hayek to be a favourite economist.
• 47:13
  He's good friends with Miley. And that's where he got the
• 47:16
  whole idea to do the Doge thing, you know, to, to go in there and
• 47:19
  try to cut spending. But there is a big difference
• 47:22
  between between Elon Musk and Doge.
• 47:25
  Elon Musk, but by doge, he tried to cut the head of the snake.
• 47:29
  He tried to cut the spending and all the bureaucracy, but that
• 47:33
  head grows out of the economic ignorance of the masses and the
• 47:36
  clueless politicians. But Miele with way less of a
• 47:41
  budget, way less of of a name recognition, he's launching a
• 47:45
  real intellectual revolution in Argentina because Miele is out
• 47:49
  there striking the the economic ignorance of the masses.
• 47:53
  You know, Miele is educating the youth he had a wonderful
• 47:55
  interview with. I mean, obviously he's awful.
• 47:57
  Ben Shapiro where Milei was saying how he won the election
• 48:01
  in Argentina and Milei laid it out.
• 48:04
  He said we, we, we used to have like rock concerts, but we used
• 48:07
  to give out economics books. So Milei is doing what nieces
• 48:12
  told us to do, to go out there and educate people.
• 48:14
  So those are important differences to realise, you
• 48:17
  know, you, you can't create an intellectual wave that that can
• 48:20
  hopefully, you know, turn things around.
• 48:23
  I know that many in my audience despise a number of the
• 48:28
  individuals that you've spoken about.
• 48:30
  I don't hold the same views because I think that each of
• 48:33
  them has something of value to offer and each of them also has
• 48:38
  something to discard. And I think we can learn from
• 48:44
  all of these and create our own perspective, our own world view.
• 48:49
  Yeah, again. And again, to me, everything,
• 48:52
  Ty, I, I've read so much of these Austrians, you know, I can
• 48:54
  find some quote or something, but I mean, we have to be
• 48:56
  sympathetic towards people who make mistakes.
• 48:59
  I mean, I, I actually think that Malay's Zionism, it actually
• 49:02
  works to our advantage. I mean, I see Zionism as a
• 49:05
  massive intellectual error, right?
• 49:07
  But the fact that Malay is already a very hardcore pro
• 49:10
  freedom person that is waiting, you know, to tolerate we, we
• 49:13
  definitely need Malay to tolerate freedom of speech,
• 49:14
  especially when it comes to like Zionism and related stuff.
• 49:18
  And also the fact that Miley is loved by the Israeli
• 49:20
  politicians. I don't know if you noticed, but
• 49:23
  last month, and it was a little over a month ago, it was
• 49:27
  actually during the same weekend that they that the Israelis
• 49:29
  attacked Iran. Miley was in Israel and he gave
• 49:33
  a speech in the Knesset. And that speech, Benjamin
• 49:37
  Netanyahu spent 20 minutes talking about how great Miley
• 49:40
  was. Another famous Israeli
• 49:42
  politician started also spoke for like 10 minutes talking
• 49:44
  about how great Miley was. So in many ways you have all of
• 49:47
  this Israeli politicians treating Malay like he's the new
• 49:50
  Moses right now. I understand a lot of that comes
• 49:53
  because Malays is just way over the head over Zionism.
• 49:56
  He thinks that the Zionists, you know, are, are the beacon of
• 49:58
  Western civilization. But a lot of these Israeli
• 50:01
  politicians, they're very pro free market.
• 50:03
  As a matter of fact, in Israel, they have like, like, like a
• 50:06
  libertarian party within, within the Likud and they're hardcore
• 50:09
  pro freedom people. So again, I, I just see Zionism
• 50:12
  as a mistake. And the fact that Mila is a
• 50:14
  Zionist, it just means that he's wrong.
• 50:16
  But maybe he can become a Zionist Gorbachev, right?
• 50:20
  We have to realise that the Soviet Union, a lot of people
• 50:23
  say, oh, the Soviet Union was just a bunch of evil bad guys.
• 50:25
  But if there were just a bunch of evil bad guys, assuming that
• 50:27
  the Zionists are a bunch of evil bad guys, we would have never
• 50:30
  had a Gorbachev or or a Yeltsin. And I have to have faith that if
• 50:35
  we try and and the chaos continuously shows it, we will
• 50:39
  get a Zionist Gorbachev. So again, we have to be
• 50:42
  sympathetic just because people make this.
• 50:43
  I was once a commie, right? Ludwig von Mises himself was
• 50:47
  once a socialist, So what's Friedrich Hayek?
• 50:49
  So just because these people make mistakes, we can't really
• 50:52
  like hate them. We have to go out there and
• 50:53
  understand how they have fooled themselves into making these
• 50:55
  errors, which is again, it's a very misessing type of thing,
• 50:58
  so. To add to what you're saying,
• 51:00
  the reason why China is about to become the world's most powerful
• 51:03
  economy is because it has it has opened up, it's it's trading,
• 51:09
  it's way more free than what it was 50 years ago, the same as
• 51:14
  Qatar and the UAEI mean, these are highly capitalist societies.
• 51:20
  Yeah, You know, they learned and really the only thing that's
• 51:23
  really holding us back, it's it's we have to, it's such a
• 51:26
  shame, right, that the United States, you know, we're the home
• 51:28
  of Mary Rothbard, the adopted home of Meses.
• 51:30
  We're the guys that really have the capitalism and it, it is sad
• 51:33
  that now the Chinese are in many ways, you know, maybe they have
• 51:36
  already reached a point where where they're even more
• 51:38
  capitalist than we are. I mean, I, I wouldn't be
• 51:40
  surprised, you know, I mean, we really have to somehow overcome
• 51:44
  Zionism. I mean, it's another like big
• 51:46
  kind of warrants, but it really is like we can't have prosperity
• 51:50
  if we're blowing $1.5 trillion every year on military spending.
• 51:53
  It's crushing us. Just as we come in for the final
• 51:58
  lap, if if somebody goes to your sub stack, I think one of the
• 52:03
  first articles they'll see is why we should all be Holocaust
• 52:06
  deniers. Quickly explain that to me.
• 52:09
  Whoa, OK, I'm going to get killed now.
• 52:14
  Well, I mean #1 let me say something about like, you know,
• 52:19
  the freedom of speech, right? I mean, for me to to realise
• 52:24
  that there are human beings that are put in prison for the
• 52:26
  content of their minds. You know, for example, like
• 52:29
  regarding the Holocaust, OK, a lot of people are not aware like
• 52:32
  right now we have the 40 be headed babies myth with Hamas,
• 52:35
  right? That was a total myth, right?
• 52:37
  There was some, some of the guys who were tasked with getting the
• 52:40
  bodies, you know, some guy exaggerated.
• 52:41
  And they have their little charities where, you know, they
• 52:43
  need to make money by showing how, you know how all these
• 52:45
  things are are happening. So that ended up being a massive
• 52:48
  myth. And soon afterwards, the Israeli
• 52:50
  Knesset, they were already talking about passing a law to
• 52:54
  ban what they called October 7th denial, right.
• 52:58
  So right now we just saw in real time how out of the complexities
• 53:01
  of history of war, you know, war myths and propaganda are things
• 53:07
  that happen all the time. During the First World War, we
• 53:09
  had the the Germans chopping off the hands of Belgium babies,
• 53:12
  crucifying Canadian soldiers. Those are all myths that arise,
• 53:15
  you know, during wars. So during the Second World War,
• 53:19
  I mean, a lot of people don't know, for example, like during
• 53:21
  the number, the Nuremberg trials, right?
• 53:23
  The Nuremberg trials, the Soviet delegation in the Nuremberg
• 53:27
  trials, OK, was led by Audrey Vishinsky.
• 53:30
  He was Stalin's judge who implemented the Shoal trials.
• 53:35
  So the same judge that implemented the the Shoal trials
• 53:39
  in Stalin's Russia from 1936 to 1938, where they signed the
• 53:43
  orders that killed like 700,000 people, executed all of Lenin's
• 53:47
  friends. The same guy was the top judge
• 53:50
  of the Soviet delegation during the number of trials, anybody in
• 53:53
  the number of trials. They blamed the Germans for the
• 53:55
  Captain Forest massacre where they killed like like 20,000
• 53:58
  Poles. That was done by the Russians,
• 54:01
  right? And the Russians put evidence
• 54:02
  saying that he was the Germans, right?
• 54:05
  And Churchill knew at the time in the Nuremberg trials, in the
• 54:08
  official documents, you can find fabricated things where they
• 54:12
  killed, you know, they killed people by electrocution,
• 54:16
  chamber, brain bashing, pedal driven machine, having people
• 54:20
  climb trees and then cutting the tree, all kinds of absurdities
• 54:23
  that today we know they were like fabricated, right?
• 54:25
  So knowing all things, how can we put in gaol someone that
• 54:30
  looks at all that stuff and then doubts the official narrative?
• 54:34
  OK, Never mind whether the official narrative happened
• 54:36
  exactly as they say they did or not, how can we be putting
• 54:39
  people in gaol, you know, for questioning something, for
• 54:42
  engaging in the competition of ideas, right?
• 54:45
  Something else that's very related to this.
• 54:47
  For example, look at the numbers prior to the collapse of the
• 54:50
  Soviet Union, right? The official estimate of the
• 54:53
  people that got killed in Auschwitz was like 4 million.
• 54:55
  And, you know, a lot of people have seen the picture of the
• 54:57
  plaque that shows the 4 million people dying.
• 54:59
  So anyone doing their moral duty, because we all should have
• 55:02
  a moral duty to understand and speak the truth as we really see
• 55:05
  it and engage in the competition of ideas.
• 55:07
  Especially for me, I've been in the free market world for like
• 55:10
  20 years. So we have a moral duty to speak
• 55:13
  the truth. So someone in 1985 saying that
• 55:16
  there's no way the Soviets could have killed 4 million people in
• 55:19
  Auschwitz. It had to be a way smaller
• 55:21
  number. You know, that person would have
• 55:23
  been deemed a criminal and killed, right?
• 55:26
  And they would have been right after the collapse of the Soviet
• 55:28
  Union when the official authorities revised the number
• 55:31
  to like 1,000,000. So that is just, again, it's
• 55:34
  wrong. And also, when you look at like
• 55:36
  the world of revisionism and the people who feel like, for
• 55:39
  example, Germar Rudolph, who you just had, you know, on your show
• 55:42
  in one of his books that I highly recommend, he wrote a
• 55:44
  book called Nazi Gas Chambers, The Roots of the Story, where
• 55:48
  Germar explains how the mainstream Holocaust narrative,
• 55:51
  which he considers to be a complex myth or an exaggeration,
• 55:55
  how it how it evolved. You have people spreading
• 55:57
  rumours. You have the the little gas
• 55:59
  chambers that were made to disinfect clothing.
• 56:01
  So you had all the ingredients to create what eventually became
• 56:04
  a myth. He talks about the Nuremberg
• 56:05
  trials and all those things. But one of the very important
• 56:07
  things that grammar does, he specifically goes out of his way
• 56:11
  to let people know that the mainstream narrative was not
• 56:14
  some grand deliberate lie created by Jews, right?
• 56:19
  Just because Jews then understandably picked up on the
• 56:22
  story and and they made it like part of their religion, it
• 56:26
  doesn't mean that the whole Holocaust narrative was plotted,
• 56:28
  you know, by the Jews. So and so the point I want to
• 56:31
  make is that so again, any anybody doubting, like I read
• 56:36
  Germar's, a lot of Germar's books and I have read, you know,
• 56:39
  the great Dave Cole that you also had his great documentary
• 56:42
  in Auschwitz. And I've looked into all of
• 56:44
  these things. Now, let us assume that that
• 56:47
  Germar made mistakes or that David Cole made mistakes because
• 56:52
  of the complexity of history and everything that happened there.
• 56:54
  If they made mistakes, and now I read their works and I am
• 56:57
  persuaded by them, why should I too, be a criminal, right?
• 57:03
  And what, what if it's what? Let's take a step further.
• 57:05
  What if the people who questioned the mainstream
• 57:07
  Holocaust narrative are actually a bunch of Jew haters and they
• 57:10
  want to make some money by selling books?
• 57:12
  OK. Which is an understandable fear
• 57:15
  because the truth is that there are some Jew haters out there,
• 57:17
  right? So, but even if we assume that,
• 57:20
  even if we assume that they're just lying, you know, so they
• 57:22
  can sell some books. And then I read their books and
• 57:25
  I'm once again persuaded, you know, should I be made a
• 57:27
  criminal? Or what if they read something
• 57:30
  by somebody who made mistakes or fabricated stuff and then they
• 57:34
  are fooled into getting a different opinion that they can
• 57:37
  put you in gaol. It's absurd.
• 57:39
  It's absurd to, to someone like myself who has such a, an
• 57:41
  understanding of freedom and so on.
• 57:44
  So the way I see it, not only do I believe that the mainstream
• 57:48
  Holocaust narrative is an exaggeration that grew out of
• 57:51
  Stalinist, I mean, Stalin had a reason to, to, to punish the
• 57:55
  Germans, to go along with the rumours, right?
• 57:58
  You can't blame them. You know, Poland, the Polish
• 58:00
  communists, they got invaded by the Nazis.
• 58:02
  So it makes perfect sense that they might exaggerate the story.
• 58:05
  But to me, so I, I definitely believe they're Girmar's side of
• 58:09
  things, that the Holocaust was not some grand invented thing,
• 58:13
  you know, by the Jews, you know, which a lot of Holocaust deniers
• 58:17
  think. And I also don't think it was
• 58:19
  the result of some malice, you know, Germans, you know, so, but
• 58:25
  so I, I do believe what Germar is saying.
• 58:27
  But even if I didn't, this just denied the thing anyway.
• 58:30
  And so we have freedom and real competition.
• 58:33
  How could we possibly know what happened?
• 58:35
  Yeah. So in other words, In other
• 58:36
  words, even if you don't believe the entire story, So what?
• 58:42
  Exactly. Deny it anyway.
• 58:43
  Deny it anyway until we do not have freedom and real
• 58:46
  competition of ideas, then just deny it anyway.
• 58:48
  Because if 10,000 of us show up at the Bundestag, you know, and
• 58:52
  that reminds, I recently had a talk with grammar.
• 58:54
  There's a gentleman, his name is Friedrich Tobin.
• 58:56
  And he's one of these people who spent like 10 months in gaol.
• 59:00
  And this man is, is a real hero that hardly anyone knows about.
• 59:03
  Friedrich Tobin went to Germany and he denied it on purpose so
• 59:07
  he could go to gaol and, and, and make himself a martyr and
• 59:09
  make a point that this is just bullshit.
• 59:11
  OK, so there's, it's incredible when 1 looks at the history of
• 59:15
  Holocaust revisionism. Those are the real heroes, you
• 59:18
  know, I mean not. Just that.
• 59:19
  Not just that, but similarly, if you wanted to say, well, the
• 59:22
  Bolshevik revolution didn't happen, OK, cool, So what?
• 59:26
  Exactly. And, and there was a lot of,
• 59:27
  there's a lot of hardcore communist who, who have a
• 59:30
  different take on the Bolshevik revolution.
• 59:31
  This or what Lenin wanted to do was great.
• 59:33
  It was the saboteurs and the, and the evil greedy capitalists
• 59:36
  that are distorting our view of history.
• 59:38
  I don't want to put those people in gaol, right?
• 59:41
  So that is part. So that is really the theme of,
• 59:43
  of my thing. You know, it's like, no, but,
• 59:45
  but it's important. I, I, I question the Holocaust
• 59:47
  for real, you know, but even if I didn't, you know, we should
• 59:50
  have enough people that say, wait a minute, this is wrong.
• 59:53
  You know, let's go out there and deny it anyway, right?
• 59:56
  Because you can. Only what really matters is not
• 59:58
  the truth itself. It's the fact that you have the
• 1:00:01
  freedom and the emerging competition of ideas that will
• 1:00:03
  then get you closer to the truth.
• 1:00:05
  I don't care exactly whether germ theory happens the way it
• 1:00:06
  is or the virus or whatever, but I have a good enough
• 1:00:09
  understanding of economics to really fight for what matters is
• 1:00:12
  the freedom and the emerging competition of ideas.
• 1:00:14
  So all of these this this so called scholars at Vagischem,
• 1:00:19
  those guys are as much scholars as were the economists in the
• 1:00:22
  Soviet Union. Right.
• 1:00:24
  Of course the Soviet Union had its think tanks of economists
• 1:00:28
  and all that, but their entire ideological structure evolved
• 1:00:32
  thanks to coercion and a mistake.
• 1:00:35
  So again, any Holocaust scholar, anybody wanting to to make the
• 1:00:39
  case for the mainstream narrative or wanting to bad
• 1:00:42
  mouth the revisionist, first let's have real freedom of
• 1:00:44
  speech. And then who knows, maybe it
• 1:00:47
  really happened exactly as they say, right?
• 1:00:50
  But fine, then I will read, you know something better and I'll
• 1:00:53
  take it more seriously and maybe I'll change my mind.
• 1:00:55
  But until then, I deny the Holocaust.
• 1:00:58
  This entire conversation Jorge is is reject the Frankfurt
• 1:01:04
  School of Economics. And the Frankfurt on the
• 1:01:07
  Marxist, anyone who's not an Austrian and anybody who I mean
• 1:01:10
  to me, I mean Chicago. School.
• 1:01:12
  I think Bolton Friedman was part of the Chicago School.
• 1:01:15
  That's a big subject. You know, He, it unfortunately,
• 1:01:19
  human beings are human beings. And there's always a little bit
• 1:01:22
  of competition and negligence, you know, of, of other
• 1:01:25
  intellectuals. The world of economics has that
• 1:01:27
  as well. Like Friedrich Hayek also taught
• 1:01:30
  at the Chicago School at the same university, but they didn't
• 1:01:34
  give him a job inside the economics department.
• 1:01:36
  They gave him a job in like the school of philosophy or
• 1:01:39
  something. And a lot of people feel like
• 1:01:41
  maybe that's because there was just a little bit of like the
• 1:01:43
  egos, you know, or whatever. And there are major differences
• 1:01:47
  between the Chicago school and Milton Friedman and the
• 1:01:50
  Austrians. And as a matter of fact, Ludwig
• 1:01:53
  von Mises, who who never took shit from anyone, Ludwig von
• 1:01:56
  Mises said that Milton Friedman is just a statistician, you
• 1:02:01
  know, because the Austrians, the Austrians look at mathematics as
• 1:02:04
  just like all these mathematical models.
• 1:02:06
  It's like a biologist. A biologist doesn't look at at a
• 1:02:09
  human body with mathematical formulas.
• 1:02:12
  You look at it in an evolved way.
• 1:02:13
  You want to see the evolution of things.
• 1:02:14
  So the Austrians look at the social order as an evolved
• 1:02:16
  thing. So we hardly pay any attention
• 1:02:18
  to math. But the Chicago guys and the
• 1:02:20
  Kings, they're more into the mathematical so.
• 1:02:21
  And it was a massive suck. I don't want to get in trouble.
• 1:02:23
  I'm already in trouble as it is. But no, but Milton Friedman, I
• 1:02:26
  love Milton Friedman, you know, wonderful guy, great educator.
• 1:02:30
  He has such a soft spoken demeanour.
• 1:02:31
  He he did so much to educate so many.
• 1:02:33
  But well, if. Friedman was he.
• 1:02:35
  He was my gateway to Hayek and and Mises, actually.
• 1:02:40
  Yeah, to me, early on I read Capitalism and Freedom or
• 1:02:43
  something like that, you know, from him.
• 1:02:45
  He too was one of my great early influences.
• 1:02:47
  And look, he did a great job with his son too, so.
• 1:02:50
  OK, Jorge, how can I follow you? Yeah, so I have a website,
• 1:02:56
  besada.com, where one can download for free or even listen
• 1:03:00
  to some of the books I've written in the past.
• 1:03:02
  Also, please follow me on Twitter.
• 1:03:04
  My handle is Hayekian. Very easy to remember.
• 1:03:09
  And if you just like also at at the Ludwig von Mises Institute,
• 1:03:13
  I've published about 12 articles that, you know, I highly
• 1:03:15
  recommend some of the articles get republished at
• 1:03:17
  lourockwell.com. I've had a few things published
• 1:03:19
  at ons.com. And so, yeah, beside that
• 1:03:23
  comment, please follow me at at Hayekian.
• 1:03:25
  Jorge Basada, thank you for joining me in the trenches.
• 1:03:28
  Yeah. Thank you.