Latest / White Coat Black Sheep / Moving Forward, Not Moving On: Jesus Gonzalez on Suicide Loss and Healing

Transcript

Moving Forward, Not Moving On: Jesus Gonzalez on Suicide Loss and Healing · White Coat Black Sheep

• 0:05
  Welcome to White Coat, Black Sheep. Thank you so much for joining me in the studio.
• 0:09
  I have Jesus Gonzalez. It is an honor to have you spend a little time with me here.
• 0:14
  Thank you, Valerie. I'm really excited to be here with you.
• 0:16
  I'm such a fan of the podcast, and I know we've known each other for, gosh, more
• 0:21
  than-
• 0:21
  How long?
• 0:22
  ... four years now.
• 0:23
  Yeah.
• 0:24
  I was in Bakersfield a little over 10 years, which is kind of crazy-
• 0:28
  Wow
• 0:29
  ... to think about.
• 0:30
  Yeah. I've been here since 2015.
• 0:32
  Yeah. And I feel like we both have similar stories. We've moved on.
• 0:37
  We're doing-
• 0:38
  Yeah
• 0:38
  ... lots of really cool things, and-
• 0:40
  Yes
• 0:40
  ... so super proud of you.
• 0:42
  Super proud of you, too. We're not losers.
• 0:45
  No.
• 0:45
  That's good.
• 0:49
  Far from it.
• 0:50
  Yeah. We're just out there trying really hard, guys.
• 0:54
  I'm trying to make an impact and teach people and teach myself and grow,
• 0:59
  evolve.
• 1:01
  And we're doing it.
• 1:02
  Yeah.
• 1:02
  I think that the older I get, the more open I become, and I think that
• 1:08
  we go through so much in life, so much trauma, so much sadness, and our joy, too.
• 1:14
  Yes. I love that.
• 1:14
  And I think that sometimes we just talk about the good things, and it's important
• 1:18
  to talk about the trials and tribulations because that, I think, is what makes us
• 1:24
  human and what makes us connect.
• 1:26
  Yes.
• 1:26
  We all go through these ranges of emotions.
• 1:30
  Yes.
• 1:30
  So I'm really happy to be here to talk to you today about grief, suicide, and-
• 1:35
  Yep
• 1:35
  ... all of that-
• 1:36
  Yes
• 1:36
  ... really hard stuff that I don't think we talk enough about.
• 1:39
  I love that you lead with a joy and readiness to share that-
• 1:45
  Yeah
• 1:45
  ... because it would seem like such a bleak, dark space, and I'm sure it was.
• 1:50
  Yeah.
• 1:51
  But you had to process it, and just-
• 1:53
  Yeah
• 1:53
  ... the fact that you do sort of light up with
• 1:57
  just such a freshness about it, I can't wait to hear how you were
• 2:03
  able to find good in that trauma.
• 2:06
  Yeah. And I think we're such social beings. I'm a very social person.
• 2:10
  I think a part of therapy for me has been able to talk about what I went through,
• 2:14
  to talk about the things that I've learned, to talk about how my perception has
• 2:20
  changed since I experienced suicide with my partner, Derek.
• 2:23
  And I want to share that because I think oftentimes, I wish I would've known so
• 2:27
  much before. I think it maybe wouldn't have changed the outcome necessarily-
• 2:32
  Yeah
• 2:32
  ... but perhaps it would've changed how I was able to make that person feel or the
• 2:38
  people around me supported.
• 2:39
  Yeah.
• 2:40
  And I think that's really what this is about, is just contributing to
• 2:44
  people being more enlightened and being-
• 2:47
  Yeah
• 2:47
  ... better versions of themselves-
• 2:48
  Absolutely
• 2:49
  ... at the end of the day because we're all humans. We all make mistakes.
• 2:51
  Definitely. And a
• 2:55
  major takeaway that we would be able to achieve today would be preventing
• 3:01
  that for somebody-
• 3:02
  Mm-hmm
• 3:02
  ... or maybe if there was something in retrospect that was a sign.
• 3:07
  I know that's like a-
• 3:08
  Yeah
• 3:08
  ... it's always a-
• 3:10
  It's hard. I think that-
• 3:12
  ... difficult question
• 3:12
  ... I've thought about that a lot with my own experience. Were there signs?
• 3:16
  And I'm sure that there were,
• 3:21
  and I think that I lead--
• 3:23
  What am I trying to say here? I think that not all suicide is preventable.
• 3:27
  Yeah.
• 3:28
  I think that in my situation, I think that it may have happened anyway, but I
• 3:32
  think-
• 3:32
  Yeah
• 3:33
  ... for some people not, and I think it's, for me, more about talking about it, so
• 3:38
  that if
• 3:39
  you have a loved one in your life who maybe you don't know how to talk to them,
• 3:42
  maybe you're afraid of asking that uncomfortable question, those follow-up
• 3:46
  questions, knowing that it's okay to do that.
• 3:50
  And sometimes people don't necessarily need a fix.
• 3:53
  Yeah.
• 3:53
  They just need a loved one to sit there with them in whatever it is that they're
• 3:58
  going through, and-
• 3:59
  Yeah
• 3:59
  ... have someone there to kind of love. I know I'm a fixer by nature.
• 4:03
  I'm a fixer.
• 4:03
  I'm a Capricorn, and I'm always like, when someone comes to me, if they're sad, I
• 4:07
  want to do something about it. I want to make them feel happy.
• 4:09
  Of course. Yeah.
• 4:10
  And sometimes that's just not what they need.
• 4:11
  People don't always-- I know. I've realized I learned that about myself, and I
• 4:17
  guess even through talking to my mom, because in a way she does trigger me.
• 4:22
  But I kind of have evolved-
• 4:25
  Yes
• 4:25
  ... to recognize that I think the trigger is just that there is something similar
• 4:30
  there, and there's a need to fix it.
• 4:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:33
  But there's a lot of times where I'm like, "Shh."
• 4:38
  "I just want you to just be a sounding board."
• 4:40
  Yeah. And sometimes it's uncomfortable to sit in that silence or that--
• 4:45
  Yeah.
• 4:45
  But I think the more practice that you have doing it-
• 4:47
  Yeah
• 4:47
  ...
• 4:49
  I don't want to use the word easy, but maybe the more comfortable you start to
• 4:52
  feel.
• 4:53
  Oh, it's a skill-
• 4:54
  Yeah
• 4:54
  ... to sit in somebody else's silence, even though you know that they're hurting-
• 4:58
  Yeah
• 4:58
  ... but they don't want you to try to fix or give a solution because-
• 5:03
  Yeah
• 5:03
  ... you can't solve it.
• 5:04
  You can't solve everything, yeah.
• 5:05
  Yeah.
• 5:06
  And I think I was really excited to have this conversation with you, too.
• 5:09
  You're a physician. You're in the healthcare field, too.
• 5:12
  I'm a chief operating officer for primary care. Derek was a PA.
• 5:16
  Yeah.
• 5:16
  And so I think that the conversation I kind of wanted to have with you was around
• 5:20
  access to mental health resources.
• 5:22
  Oof, so good.
• 5:24
  I think that
• 5:26
  in Derek's situation, he tried to access resources, and it was so difficult for
• 5:30
  him.
• 5:31
  Yeah.
• 5:31
  And I think a lot about now how we have our providers who are trained to identify
• 5:37
  depression, and they do the PHQ-9 screeners.
• 5:40
  Yeah.
• 5:40
  They're supposed to identify these things and connect their patients to resources,
• 5:44
  yet-
• 5:44
  Yeah
• 5:44
  ... they're not able to access those resources themselves.
• 5:47
  Yeah.
• 5:48
  And I was actually, in preparation for this, I was reading about different studies,
• 5:51
  and it was really shocking to me to read that
• 5:55
  a large majority of people in the profession feel scared to ask for help.
• 5:59
  They're scared what that's going to mean for their career, for their licenses.
• 6:03
  Yes.
• 6:03
  And that's a conversation, and I
• 6:06
  haven't heard that conversation at all, and I think it's a really important one.
• 6:09
  Yes.
• 6:09
  Just how can we
• 6:12
  ask people to help others, yet not create cultures or spaces for them to seek help
• 6:18
  themselves?
• 6:19
  Yeah.
• 6:19
  Being in healthcare is very heavy, the things-
• 6:21
  Yes
• 6:21
  ... that we have to talk about with our patients that we hear.
• 6:25
  Yeah.
• 6:26
  It's so much more than writing a prescription, really.
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  It's holistic, and I know you talk about that-
• 6:32
  Yes
• 6:32
  ... a lot. So yeah, so I'll get off my soapbox.
• 6:36
  No, it's a great one. And just to add to that, you're absolutely right.
• 6:42
  As a doctor,
• 6:45
  we're licensed. We're held accountable for the people who we give the treatment to.
• 6:51
  And when you are a doctor or an NP, PA, you seek help,
• 6:57
  you're now also entered into the database where your colleagues can look you up-
• 7:02
  Mm-hmm
• 7:03
  ... and they will use that against you.
• 7:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:05
  It has been used against me.
• 7:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:07
  I'll tell you an example. I've never shared this before.
• 7:10
  Mm.
• 7:10
  A few people in my personal world do know it, but I think it is a great time to
• 7:16
  just highlight it.
• 7:16
  Yeah.
• 7:16
  So, long history of ADHD. It helps me more than it hurts me.
• 7:21
  Okay, really good at my job, but when you are locked into the program and the
• 7:27
  system, and you have to show up and do all these extensive tests and be just on
• 7:32
  point every single day,
• 7:36
  you're not sleeping. You're eating garbage. It's very demanding.
• 7:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:43
  So in trying to get yourself treated, right, so that your performance remains high
• 7:48
  and consistent, myself, and
• 7:52
  I would say a lot of different colleagues, they also have had to, at some point,
• 7:56
  take an ADHD medication.
• 7:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:58
  So
• 8:00
  it was interesting-
• 8:02
  Mm-hmm
• 8:02
  ... because you just have very limited access, just like the rest of the world,
• 8:07
  right? No one's going to help you at all.
• 8:10
  God forbid, you are asking for a refill, or you miss an appointment because
• 8:16
  you're stuck at the hospital. Nobody cares.
• 8:18
  Mm-mm.
• 8:19
  Nobody cares.
• 8:21
  And so you're a normal patient in the system, okay?
• 8:25
  You try to push through it. There's a lot of barriers.
• 8:28
  There's prior authorizations. It costs a lot of money.
• 8:31
  There's the pharmacy's not your friend.
• 8:36
  No, and let alone with the stigma of all of that, right?
• 8:39
  The stigma.
• 8:40
  The stigma.
• 8:40
  Stigma.
• 8:40
  What are people going to think of me?
• 8:42
  What are-
• 8:43
  They do judge.
• 8:44
  Yeah.
• 8:44
  Heavily judge. Yes.
• 8:46
  It's a really interesting topic to talk about.
• 8:51
  After I lost Derrick, I had just got my first executive job in San Francisco.
• 8:55
  I was working for a federally qualified health center. I'm still there.
• 9:00
  And I had never been in a space where my mental health was supported.
• 9:05
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:06
  I'd just gone through the hardest thing of my life.
• 9:08
  Horrific.
• 9:08
  And the way that my organization showed up for me was unlike anything I've ever
• 9:13
  experienced.
• 9:14
  Wow.
• 9:14
  I worked at very corporate, big hospital systems here in Bakersfield, and it's
• 9:19
  very you show up, you hit your numbers-
• 9:23
  Right
• 9:23
  ... you don't complain.
• 9:25
  Right.
• 9:26
  And here, they allowed me to be human.
• 9:30
  So you shared it?
• 9:31
  I shared it with everyone.
• 9:32
  Wow.
• 9:33
  There were moments where I'd cry at work.
• 9:35
  Good for you.
• 9:35
  I still cry at work sometimes.
• 9:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 9:36
  I'm a very empathetic person.
• 9:38
  Yeah. Which is a beautiful thing to always have.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:42
  And to get rid of that is not an option.
• 9:45
  And I work for primarily Latino organizations.
• 9:47
  I do think culturally it's very different than some of these larger organizations.
• 9:52
  Yeah.
• 9:53
  But I love this kind of, I'm seeing this transition,
• 9:58
  transitionary kind of way of thinking about medicine where it isn't so
• 10:04
  Western and clinical. There are cultural-
• 10:06
  Yeah
• 10:06
  ... components to these things.
• 10:09
  Ugh, yes.
• 10:10
  And I think creating space for that and allowing these more traditional ways of
• 10:15
  approaching, and traditional more in the cultural aspect, right?
• 10:18
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:19
  In the Latino world, we getting together and honoring the deceased and-
• 10:24
  Yes
• 10:24
  ... doing things that maybe you wouldn't normally do or traditionally do in the
• 10:28
  clinic.
• 10:29
  Yeah.
• 10:29
  I think it's important.
• 10:31
  Yeah.
• 10:32
  And it makes people feel part of a community, and you can show up in a different,
• 10:36
  more positive way. Know that, hey, it's okay to show the pain that I'm going
• 10:40
  through.
• 10:40
  Yeah.
• 10:40
  It's okay to know that I'm not at 100%.
• 10:43
  Yeah.
• 10:43
  But what matters is that I showed up today, what matters is that-
• 10:47
  You showed up
• 10:47
  ... I'm moving forward.
• 10:48
  Yes.
• 10:48
  And I think that's what we need more of.
• 10:50
  Yeah. I love that. Showing up is really, I've said this a lot.
• 10:55
  That's funny you said it.
• 10:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:56
  A lot of people can't just show up.
• 10:58
  It's hard.
• 10:58
  They can't even show up.
• 10:59
  It's hard.
• 11:00
  It's a huge step just to do that. So if you feel not okay and you're borderline
• 11:06
  or you're like, "I just want to bed rot today."
• 11:10
  Yeah.
• 11:10
  Sometimes it's not the best for you.
• 11:12
  You just need to put on your clothes, walk through the motion-
• 11:15
  Oh, my gosh
• 11:15
  ... be a robot for a minute because that is still better for you than the other you
• 11:20
  that's just back there.
• 11:22
  Oh, my gosh. 1,000%. And that kind of brings me to this next thing I wanted to talk
• 11:26
  about-
• 11:26
  Yes
• 11:27
  ... which is the impact of grief on your body.
• 11:31
  Ugh, yes.
• 11:32
  I remember the first few years after losing Derrick, my memory was totally shot.
• 11:37
  I couldn't remember anything, and I remember getting so frustrated with myself.
• 11:40
  Yeah.
• 11:41
  I felt so stupid. I couldn't remember-
• 11:43
  Foggy.
• 11:43
  Yeah. I couldn't remember anything.
• 11:44
  Yes.
• 11:44
  Couldn't remember people's names I would meet.
• 11:47
  I couldn't-
• 11:47
  You felt like Dory the fish.
• 11:49
  Yeah, it was every five minutes. It was insane.
• 11:53
  I was like, "Oh, my gosh, I don't even want to think about what my coworkers think
• 11:58
  of me."
• 11:58
  That's-
• 11:58
  I'm walking around with my little tablet writing everything down.
• 12:02
  Okay, that's good.
• 12:03
  But-
• 12:04
  That's a good-
• 12:05
  Yeah
• 12:05
  ... I know the fact that you were aware of it, and then you, to fix it, you were
• 12:10
  writing things down, or now we have AI, right?
• 12:12
  There's things you could do to-
• 12:13
  Yeah, please
• 12:14
  ... get yourself through it.
• 12:15
  But I thought, "Oh, my gosh, what's wrong with me?" And I hadn't really seen,
• 12:19
  really had spoken to a healthcare professional about it.
• 12:22
  Yeah.
• 12:22
  And it wasn't until I was reading more online and hearing from other survivors'
• 12:26
  experiences that, oh, my gosh-
• 12:28
  Yeah
• 12:28
  ... this is a thing. Your body has a literal response to this trauma that you went
• 12:33
  through.
• 12:33
  Yeah.
• 12:34
  And I think, I wish that there'd be more resources out there for people who have
• 12:39
  lost loved ones to suicide. Because there's all these things that I think knowing
• 12:44
  there's a
• 12:46
  kind of a shared experience-
• 12:47
  Mm-hmm
• 12:47
  ... you can kind of say, "Oh, okay, maybe there's not something wrong with me.
• 12:51
  This is just part of that-"
• 12:52
  Part of the journey
• 12:53
  ... "healing and that process."
• 12:54
  Yes. I love that. There is hope on the other side of it.
• 12:58
  You just have to push through it.
• 13:00
  Yeah.
• 13:01
  Gosh, I haven't gone through that. I mean, that's horrific.
• 13:06
  The closest thing that I can really relate to as far as the deepest grief-
• 13:11
  Mm-hmm
• 13:11
  ... I've experienced that affected my memory-
• 13:14
  Yeah
• 13:15
  ... there was a period of time, and it took, I feel like it was six months for me.
• 13:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:19
  And I was studying, I was pre-med, and I even had a tutor, and I was so
• 13:25
  embarrassed, and I told her, "I know I'm not 100% right now.
• 13:30
  I'm probably like 25%."
• 13:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:32
  "And I'm going through a lot in my personal life, but the future me needs to, I
• 13:37
  can't quit, I can't pause." Because the logistics of life, some things
• 13:43
  you feel like you can't just quit your job. You still have to pay bills.
• 13:45
  Yeah.
• 13:46
  You still have to show up to things.
• 13:47
  Yeah.
• 13:48
  So yeah, you just, in your case, you were writing things down.
• 13:51
  You had awareness, and people were also aware, and you just, it's okay.
• 13:56
  It's not embarrassing.
• 13:57
  No, and I think that's the takeaway, right?
• 13:59
  Yeah.
• 14:00
  It's okay to ask for help. I think in our society, we're made to be so productive,
• 14:05
  and it's shameful.
• 14:07
  Yes, where does it come from?
• 14:08
  I don't know, but I hate it.
• 14:10
  God, I hate it. I hate it.
• 14:10
  We can have both.
• 14:11
  I know.
• 14:11
  We can be productive, and we can also be human. We're not robots.
• 14:14
  It doesn't make you weak or pathetic.
• 14:15
  No. I think if anything, it makes you stronger and like-
• 14:18
  Impressive.
• 14:20
  Thank you. I mean, I-
• 14:21
  Because you're not just in bed sitting there.
• 14:23
  Yeah.
• 14:23
  Like-
• 14:24
  And I know that's okay sometimes, too, but it's like-
• 14:26
  Yeah
• 14:26
  ... it is. There's something about getting out of bed-
• 14:28
  Yeah
• 14:28
  ... and just moving forward. They say that the best cure for anxiety, right, is
• 14:33
  movement-
• 14:33
  Yes
• 14:34
  ... is acting, is doing.
• 14:35
  It's the hardest thing to do.
• 14:38
  It is. But it's so important.
• 14:39
  I want to do what's normal.
• 14:41
  Right.
• 14:41
  Bravo. BravoCon. I was like, "I want to be the Lowell Owens version of
• 14:47
  myself."
• 14:49
  Instagramming.
• 14:51
  I've had those moments, too.
• 14:54
  Yeah.
• 14:54
  No, but
• 14:56
  I think it's important to recognize those patterns-
• 15:01
  Yeah
• 15:01
  ... and to be able to take a step back and say, "All right,
• 15:05
  how is this impacting my healing journey?"
• 15:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:08
  And I think being able to, yeah, really take a step back and understand what is
• 15:13
  best for you in that moment.
• 15:15
  Yeah. If you can't decide that, if you can't even assess
• 15:21
  yourself, because you do disconnect from your body in many ways.
• 15:26
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:26
  It's almost like you're hovering above looking at yourself.
• 15:29
  Oh, yeah.
• 15:30
  There's shame, there's disappointment, there's the things I know that I should be
• 15:35
  doing but I'm not doing.
• 15:37
  It's all that pressure of society or family or, and I think learning to let go of
• 15:42
  all of that has really helped me. Because I think I was that person before Derrick
• 15:46
  passed away. I was like, "I need to have this title. I need to achieve this.
• 15:52
  I need to have-
• 15:52
  Yes
• 15:53
  ... a house, and it needs to look like this."
• 15:55
  A checklist.
• 15:56
  Yeah, all of these. I need to look a certain way.
• 15:58
  I need to-
• 15:58
  Yeah
• 15:59
  ... but like-
• 15:59
  You nailed it, in my opinion.
• 16:03
  Thank you, Mallory. You're so sweet.
• 16:05
  No, but-
• 16:05
  Well, I'm educated.
• 16:07
  It's like letting that go. I still want to achieve-
• 16:10
  Yeah
• 16:10
  ... those things, but I do them, I guess, for me, because I want to, not because
• 16:14
  it's this expectation of how people-
• 16:17
  Perceive
• 16:18
  ... perceive you or think that you should be.
• 16:20
  Ugh.
• 16:20
  But I know that's really hard.
• 16:21
  I know.
• 16:21
  I know that's extremely hard, and it's been really hard for me.
• 16:25
  Derrick was someone who really struggled with self-acceptance.
• 16:28
  He worried so much about what other people thought of him, and I try to live my
• 16:33
  life in a way that would hopefully make him proud.
• 16:37
  Yeah.
• 16:38
  And it's been really scary to open up on the internet.
• 16:42
  I talk about this a lot on my Instagram, and I'm always like, "Oh, my gosh, am I
• 16:46
  being too much? Am I being too this or that?" You know?
• 16:48
  I love it. It looks like such joy, and just arrival of
• 16:54
  self and acceptance of self.
• 16:56
  Yeah.
• 16:56
  And my takeaway is that you feel settled and at peace.
• 17:02
  Yeah, at peace.
• 17:03
  Yeah.
• 17:04
  At peace. Knowing that he will always be with me.
• 17:07
  Yeah.
• 17:07
  I think when you first lose, and this I don't think applies just to losing someone
• 17:12
  from suicide. I think losing anyone, that grief is so overwhelming.
• 17:17
  Yeah.
• 17:17
  And there's still moments sometimes, like I was driving around downtown today just
• 17:20
  going to all of our old spots, and I have moments where I cry and like-
• 17:23
  Oh, was it good or bad or both?
• 17:25
  It was good. It wasn't bad. It was good.
• 17:26
  It was like a release of maybe some feelings I'd been harboring but-
• 17:31
  Yeah
• 17:32
  ... was a little scared to confront.
• 17:34
  Yeah.
• 17:35
  But I think it's taking time and allowing yourself to slowly get there when you're
• 17:39
  ready and not, because if I'm being honest, I felt That healing
• 17:45
  for me, when I first lost him, I had this timeline of, all right, after six months,
• 17:50
  I'm going to be totally healed. I'm not going to be sad about it.
• 17:52
  I imagine I would give myself six months.
• 17:54
  Because I process things very quickly. But it wasn't like that.
• 17:57
  You're such an overachiever.
• 17:58
  It wasn't like that.
• 17:59
  Try to put it on a planner. Okay.
• 18:01
  I'm a Capricorn.
• 18:05
  It wasn't this.
• 18:05
  Great, done at this time. Check. Cruise plans.
• 18:09
  I wish it worked like that. But no, it's like this-
• 18:11
  Yeah
• 18:11
  ... and then just talking about it openly, and you learn
• 18:16
  things from different people and their experiences, and just being open to what the
• 18:20
  universe and the world is offering to you in that moment.
• 18:23
  Yeah.
• 18:24
  And taking those little bits and pieces and putting them in your box for later when
• 18:27
  you're feeling sad or when you're feeling like, "Oh my gosh, I don't think I can
• 18:30
  get through this." But then, "Oh, I remember I have this little piece of advice
• 18:34
  that this person gave me that I'm going to be able to use now."
• 18:38
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  Or just this tool that I learned from somebody.
• 18:41
  I love it. Your eyes and ears are open to receive anything that would be helpful.
• 18:47
  Yeah. So, I think that it's
• 18:52
  hard. And the other piece, too, of going through this grief journey is the way that
• 18:58
  our system is set up. You only get three days of bereavement. That's crazy.
• 19:02
  I was so lucky to have a-
• 19:04
  Oh, my gosh
• 19:04
  ... really supportive organization that worked with me.
• 19:07
  Yeah.
• 19:08
  But that's not the case everyone. That was such a privilege for me.
• 19:10
  Yeah.
• 19:11
  I can't imagine losing Derrick and then having to come back after three days.
• 19:15
  That is, to me,
• 19:17
  just insane.
• 19:19
  Yeah.
• 19:19
  Especially in the healthcare field.
• 19:21
  When we know the traumatic-
• 19:24
  We're the least healthy.
• 19:24
  It's-
• 19:24
  We're the least healthy, and I've said it before, I really feel a level of
• 19:29
  inspiration and mission to help my own kind because we don't show up.
• 19:34
  I ghosted on my dental appointment this morning, and I'm so mad at myself.
• 19:40
  I was like, "Just charge my fee. I'm sorry." And it's like I knew that I had it,
• 19:46
  and I did block my schedule, but I allowed the patient visit to go over
• 19:52
  because I felt like it was the right thing to do.
• 19:55
  But in retrospect, I need to just draw a boundary and just make that space.
• 20:00
  This is when you do self-care.
• 20:02
  Yeah.
• 20:03
  It's so hard.
• 20:04
  We almost need a total redesign of the system.
• 20:07
  I know.
• 20:08
  And I think right now we're really talking about the provider experiences, but it's
• 20:12
  so much larger than that.
• 20:13
  It is. It's cancer.
• 20:14
  The way that we're reimbursed, the whole thing.
• 20:18
  It's gross.
• 20:18
  We need to just blow it up and start from scratch.
• 20:24
  I agree. Control Alt Delete because it's so bad.
• 20:27
  Yeah.
• 20:27
  And there's, I don't know. I know that abuse of any fraud is always an option, but
• 20:33
  it's not well done. It's not working.
• 20:36
  No.
• 20:36
  It's not working.
• 20:37
  And I know I think a lot of us get into healthcare because we want to help people.
• 20:41
  Yes.
• 20:41
  Both my parents are immigrants. I remember going to FQHC when I was little-
• 20:46
  Mm-hmm
• 20:46
  ... and I want to give back to my community, and I see-
• 20:49
  Yeah
• 20:49
  ... how hard it is for them to access care sometimes.
• 20:52
  Yes.
• 20:52
  Or when we have to refer them out to a specialist. It's so complicated.
• 20:56
  It's crazy.
• 20:57
  And I'm glad that you have this platform, and you're using it to have conversations
• 21:02
  like this-
• 21:03
  Yes
• 21:03
  ... and hopefully others will listen in.
• 21:05
  Yes.
• 21:05
  It'll make them think about how can we do things differently.
• 21:08
  Right.
• 21:08
  I really want to be a CEO one day. That's my goal.
• 21:10
  And through all of this experience and losing Derrick and-
• 21:14
  Yeah
• 21:15
  ... kind of seeing how he had to navigate his insurance benefits through work and
• 21:19
  how horrible that was.
• 21:21
  And he worked for a good place.
• 21:23
  He did.
• 21:25
  And I think that just goes to show, just because you are in healthcare, you
• 21:34
  experience the same thing as your patient would.
• 21:36
  Yes.
• 21:36
  Which is crazy.
• 21:37
  We are, yes, and that was exactly part of what I experienced with controls.
• 21:43
  Whenever I did choose to do the medicated option for ADHD
• 21:49
  control, which now, I've learned other modalities to do that.
• 21:55
  But it's like the world requires a certain output, and they require a certain
• 22:01
  level of performance.
• 22:02
  Yeah.
• 22:03
  And if you're not it, then somebody else is going to be put into your place, or
• 22:06
  you'll lose your job.
• 22:07
  Yeah.
• 22:08
  That's it.
• 22:08
  And it shouldn't be that way.
• 22:10
  It shouldn't. It's pretty wretched.
• 22:11
  Yeah, it shouldn't be that way. And I think hopefully people listening-- oh my
• 22:16
  gosh, I can't say the word listening.
• 22:18
  I heard it. I'm from the South. We just merge them together.
• 22:22
  It'll plant a little seed of like, okay, how can we change this?
• 22:27
  Yeah.
• 22:27
  But I think it's going to take that younger generation of thinking things
• 22:31
  differently, and I-
• 22:31
  Yes
• 22:31
  ... really admire Gen Z because they're really about taking a step back and
• 22:37
  doing things that are going to promote wellness-
• 22:41
  Yeah
• 22:41
  ... but really promote wellness.
• 22:43
  They're not into how we're doing it right now.
• 22:45
  No.
• 22:45
  They are not into it. They're like, "No, thanks.
• 22:47
  I'll be poor." "I don't actually really want to shop for the job.
• 22:51
  It ruins my sleep score and-"
• 22:54
  Good for you for being healthy.
• 22:56
  I'm like, "I'm not mad at it."
• 22:59
  No. I wish I was more into it.
• 23:02
  Boundary.
• 23:02
  Yeah. What's a boundary?
• 23:05
  You need me to come in on the weekend? Sure.
• 23:07
  Stay toxic. Be like us.
• 23:10
  Die earlier. I'm just saying. They're going to definitely live to 100.
• 23:14
  Oh my gosh.
• 23:15
  They're going to hit 20.
• 23:16
  They're going to solve all of our problems.
• 23:20
  Oh my gosh. Yeah.
• 23:24
  There's just so much beauty in life and that ability to feel joy and to feel free-
• 23:29
  Yeah
• 23:29
  ... and to really have a feeling and not even just be numb.
• 23:34
  Yeah. And allowing yourself to do that, I think, is really important.
• 23:36
  I remember feeling so guilty when I would have a happy day, or there would be
• 23:41
  something that I would do that would bring me joy, and I would think, "Oh my gosh,
• 23:44
  I wish Derrick was here to experience that." And then I would feel so guilty like,
• 23:48
  "Oh my gosh, why are you happy? You lost the love of your life.
• 23:51
  You lost-
• 23:51
  Yeah
• 23:52
  ... the most important person to you, and you're smiling.
• 23:54
  Like, what?"
• 23:55
  Yes.
• 23:56
  I think being able to move through that, and then also the guilt of what is
• 24:00
  everyone around me thinking? I'm on this healing journey.
• 24:05
  I'm doing whatever it is that I need to just even get through the day to be able to
• 24:08
  breathe and go to sleep at night. I would wonder a lot about that.
• 24:12
  What does his family think of me? What do his friends think of me?
• 24:16
  Yeah.
• 24:17
  Of how I'm living my life. What does Derrick think of all of this?
• 24:20
  You're such a caretaker.
• 24:22
  And I had to learn to let that go. I had to learn to let that go.
• 24:24
  Because you were not even thinking about you at all.
• 24:27
  No.
• 24:27
  You weren't on your own list.
• 24:29
  I wasn't, and that's the crazy part.
• 24:31
  And I think that through this journey, and for anyone listening, I want you to know
• 24:35
  that it's okay. Your grief journey is your own. Your life is your own.
• 24:40
  And the sooner that you can let go of caring what other people think, it will set
• 24:46
  you free in such a way that I can't even put into words.
• 24:50
  And I think when I talk about it, people tell me there's such a lightness of you
• 24:54
  that I've never seen before. And I think it's just that.
• 24:57
  It's because I've-
• 24:57
  Yeah
• 24:57
  ... been able to let that go-
• 24:59
  Yeah
• 24:59
  ... and not care what people are going to think of me at the end of the day
• 25:02
  because-
• 25:02
  That's it
• 25:03
  ... life is so short. We only get one life on this earth.
• 25:06
  Yeah.
• 25:07
  Spend it doing the things that you enjoy and that you love.
• 25:11
  Yes.
• 25:11
  At the end of the day, if you're not hurting anyone or yourself, do it.
• 25:16
  Yeah.
• 25:16
  Do it.
• 25:16
  Yeah. Joy is just, that's living.
• 25:19
  That is-
• 25:20
  Finding that joy
• 25:20
  ... that's freedom.
• 25:21
  Yeah.
• 25:21
  Joy is freedom.
• 25:22
  Yeah, definitely.
• 25:24
  Joy is freedom.
• 25:25
  Oh, do you think you went through a space of numbness?
• 25:31
  Oh my gosh.
• 25:31
  Did you let yourself just like you-- I think it's like a survival mechanism.
• 25:37
  It's like a disassociation.
• 25:39
  Yeah.
• 25:39
  I was talking to my friend about this the other day.
• 25:41
  I was like, I feel like I'm clear now where I can think about-- I wasn't doing the
• 25:46
  healthiest things. The last year and a half-
• 25:50
  Mm-hmm
• 25:51
  ... of losing Derrick, I was doing a lot of things to dissociate from having to
• 25:55
  feel the pain of missing him-
• 25:58
  Yeah
• 25:58
  ... of wanting to pick up the phone to talk to him. Our work is really stressful.
• 26:04
  Yeah.
• 26:04
  We deal with so much, and Derrick was kind of my rock. He was in healthcare.
• 26:08
  He understood what I went through.
• 26:12
  Yeah.
• 26:12
  And I didn't have that person to pick up the phone.
• 26:14
  I would cry myself to sleep a lot.
• 26:16
  Oh my gosh.
• 26:16
  And it was just terrible to not have your person.
• 26:19
  Yeah.
• 26:19
  And
• 26:21
  so I share that because I actually forgot your question.
• 26:28
  I lost my train of thought. See, there goes the grief brain.
• 26:29
  No, it's okay, because it's so real-
• 26:33
  Yeah
• 26:33
  ... and you had to walk through it. So whenever your nervous system just shuts down
• 26:37
  out of survival because it's almost like it's so painful-
• 26:40
  Yeah
• 26:41
  ... the brain stops to register it.
• 26:43
  It stops, and I think that's where all the forgetting came in and all of the-
• 26:46
  Absolutely
• 26:47
  ... all of that. But I think- ... slowly kind of doing the work.
• 26:52
  Yes.
• 26:53
  Doing the work, showing up-
• 26:54
  Yes
• 26:55
  ... and continuing to move forward and allowing yourself to move forward.
• 26:57
  I heard this quote the other day, because I would always say, "I don't want to move
• 27:01
  on. I don't want to leave him behind."
• 27:04
  Oh, yeah.
• 27:04
  And I recognize that I never have to do that because I'm not moving on.
• 27:09
  I'll never be able-
• 27:10
  Yeah
• 27:10
  ... to move on from that.
• 27:11
  Yeah.
• 27:11
  But I can move forward. I can put one foot in front of the other.
• 27:15
  Yeah.
• 27:15
  And that kind of changed my whole perception around that, and especially wanting to
• 27:20
  find love again.
• 27:21
  Yes.
• 27:22
  That is a whole another can of worms, of being able to carry that love with me.
• 27:26
  That's a conversation.
• 27:27
  And-
• 27:28
  Yep
• 27:28
  ... I thought about that a lot. It's like, okay, I don't have to leave the love
• 27:32
  that I had with him behind. If anything, it makes me a stronger partner-
• 27:36
  Gives you-
• 27:36
  ... for the next person I'm with.
• 27:37
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 27:38
  And it-
• 27:39
  I think it's beautiful
• 27:40
  ... thank you. And I think it'll allow me to show up in a different way-
• 27:43
  Yeah
• 27:43
  ... in a better way than I could have before.
• 27:46
  It seems so evolved, like grown up.
• 27:50
  And it sucks because you didn't choose it, okay?
• 27:52
  No.
• 27:52
  It was like such, but there's joy and then there's death, and it's like, I don't
• 27:57
  know. It's a whole thing you don't even need to put words to.
• 28:02
  Yeah. No, I appreciate that. And,
• 28:06
  I hope that there's... Yeah. And we'll see what the world, the universe, has in
• 28:12
  store for me.
• 28:13
  Yeah. Oh, gosh. I am excited for whatever that is.
• 28:17
  If we could know, would we want to know?
• 28:20
  No.
• 28:20
  I don't, right?
• 28:20
  I kind of want the surprise.
• 28:22
  I know.
• 28:23
  I kind of want the surprise. But it's changed the way I live my life, too.
• 28:27
  Yeah.
• 28:28
  I used to be the person that would wait for the perfect moment or would wait to do
• 28:33
  something, and now I don't even think twice.
• 28:35
  Like if I want to do something, I'm going to do it.
• 28:37
  We don't know how much life we have left on this earth.
• 28:39
  Yes.
• 28:40
  It's a gift, and I-
• 28:43
  It really is
• 28:43
  ... treat every day like a gift. I wake up every morning, and I try to find one
• 28:47
  thing that I'm grateful for, and that has really helped me move through those
• 28:52
  complicated feelings of anger that he's gone or sadness that he's gone.
• 28:57
  Yeah.
• 28:57
  Because there's so much to be grateful for in this life.
• 29:00
  Did you find yourself asking why or feeling any level of like, "This is not fair?"
• 29:06
  Yeah, a lot. I remember-
• 29:07
  It seems like I would
• 29:08
  ... I haven't told anyone this story, but the morning I found out, I was walking
• 29:14
  into work, and I just remember dropping to the floor crying, and every-
• 29:19
  So you didn't walk in on the scene. You found out-
• 29:22
  I was-
• 29:23
  ... by phone?
• 29:23
  ... I was at work, yeah. And I had to go through the airport.
• 29:27
  Everything had turned white. I was crying in there.
• 29:29
  I couldn't even like-
• 29:30
  You had to travel home?
• 29:31
  I had to travel to Bakersfield.
• 29:32
  Oh.
• 29:32
  That was in San Francisco. And I bought a ticket for the wrong weekend because I
• 29:37
  was just so frantic.
• 29:39
  That'd be me.
• 29:39
  The lady at the United Airlines-
• 29:41
  Yeah
• 29:41
  ... was so sweet. She helped me. I went through the gate, and I'm just sitting
• 29:45
  there crying, and this girl walks up to me.
• 29:48
  And I get that you're talking about this because I'm a very spiritual person.
• 29:52
  I believe in signs.
• 29:52
  Yeah.
• 29:53
  This girl walks up to me, and she's like, "Hey, Suz." And I'm just like, "What?"
• 29:58
  San Francisco is a huge airport. I had barely moved there. I didn't know anybody.
• 30:03
  Yeah.
• 30:03
  She ended up being my neighbor's girlfriend and was flying from Washington to see
• 30:08
  her, and she just sat with me, and she held me. She sat next to me on the plane.
• 30:13
  I will never forget that act of kindness.
• 30:17
  And I don't know what I would've done.
• 30:19
  I think that was there making sure that I didn't have to go there and face this
• 30:24
  alone. But yeah, I wondered a lot like, why?
• 30:28
  And I know that I'll never know.
• 30:31
  Yeah.
• 30:32
  But I've come to terms that it is like a disease of the mind-
• 30:37
  Yeah
• 30:37
  ... and it affects people differently.
• 30:38
  Yeah.
• 30:39
  I heard someone explain it the other day, like you wouldn't ask someone with a
• 30:42
  severed spinal cord to go for a walk kind of thing.
• 30:46
  Yeah.
• 30:46
  It is this invisible disease that we don't understand.
• 30:49
  Yeah.
• 30:50
  And some people just are going to succumb to it one day.
• 30:53
  Yeah.
• 30:54
  So it's a very complicated thing to talk about. Very complicated.
• 30:58
  Yeah.
• 31:00
  And I know everyone has such a unique experience losing someone that way to
• 31:05
  suicide. And everyone's, I think, experience is valid, and I want to say that.
• 31:11
  I'm just talking from my personal experience.
• 31:13
  Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.
• 31:17
  May I ask, so there was-
• 31:19
  Yeah
• 31:19
  ... no closure or a letter or anything that explained?
• 31:24
  No.
• 31:24
  So just an open-
• 31:26
  Yeah, I really wish I would've gotten a letter.
• 31:28
  I don't know which is worse.
• 31:30
  I know the-
• 31:30
  Maybe if he wrote it, you'd be p****d.
• 31:32
  I don't know. I would think about that a lot, like why, why?
• 31:38
  But I think in that, I felt selfish asking that.
• 31:42
  I let that go because-
• 31:42
  Oh, that's a good point
• 31:43
  ... I think at the-
• 31:44
  You're right. That's nosy, and that's like... You know what I mean?
• 31:47
  Yeah, I just thought, okay,
• 31:50
  how much pain was he in to
• 31:54
  where this kind of had happened-
• 31:56
  Yeah
• 31:56
  ... and you ask yourself all of those questions.
• 31:58
  Yeah.
• 31:59
  But I hope that one day that there will be more research on depression and the mind
• 32:04
  and what that does, because there's not a lot out there.
• 32:07
  I remember researching a lot about this, and everyone's experience is so unique and
• 32:12
  different.
• 32:13
  Yeah.
• 32:13
  It affects everyone in a very different way.
• 32:15
  Yeah.
• 32:17
  But it is hard-
• 32:20
  It's complicated
• 32:20
  ... to not understand ever the reason.
• 32:23
  Yeah.
• 32:23
  And sometimes there isn't. Sometimes there just isn't.
• 32:26
  And I think that is the most uncomfortable thing to accept and to sit with.
• 32:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:32
  We had a lot of conversations, actually, about euthanasia and suicide, and
• 32:38
  so I feel...
• 32:42
  What am I trying to say? I guess I want to say this in a really sensitive way
• 32:45
  because I know that is such a sensitive topic-
• 32:47
  Yeah
• 32:48
  ...
• 32:49
  in our society. But I think if someone is in so much pain-
• 32:54
  Yeah
• 32:54
  ... ethically, what does that mean to keep-
• 32:57
  Yeah
• 32:58
  ... them here and in their pain?
• 33:00
  Yeah.
• 33:00
  What is the most humane thing to do?
• 33:03
  We would have debates about that a lot.
• 33:06
  I have those debates a lot, too, and I sometimes I'll touch on it here, but
• 33:12
  people don't like to hear it.
• 33:15
  No, no. And-
• 33:16
  But it's a fact of life.
• 33:18
  It's a fact of life. And I almost think like, could I have had closure or could I
• 33:24
  have had a different experience had that been an option for us?
• 33:28
  And instead of this really traumatic way that affected
• 33:34
  not only me or our friends, his family, my family, just in a really,
• 33:40
  really traumatic way, where we were left wondering, and we're left to pick up the
• 33:43
  pieces, and had we been able to have a more direct and open
• 33:49
  conversation beforehand, and had that been an option? Ugh. Yeah, who knows?
• 33:54
  That would not-
• 33:54
  Who knows?
• 33:54
  Oh my gosh.
• 33:55
  And, so I've thought a lot about that, and I want to
• 34:00
  be... I know that's available in other countries.
• 34:03
  I know to a certain extent it is here, but-
• 34:05
  But like you said-
• 34:05
  ... I think that's the question we're not asking.
• 34:07
  Yeah
• 34:07
  ... if you're somebody who's just like, "I don't feel like myself.
• 34:11
  I don't feel good," I can't imagine anybody-
• 34:14
  No.
• 34:14
  I mean, we wish...
• 34:16
  No.
• 34:17
  It's like-
• 34:17
  You'd be hospitalized
• 34:18
  ... if you have cancer-
• 34:20
  Yeah
• 34:20
  ... and it's your choice whether to go on chemo or not.
• 34:23
  And just like that, I think it should be someone's choice whether or not to remain
• 34:28
  in that pain.
• 34:29
  Yeah.
• 34:31
  But I think that is the ultimate question in healthcare, the ultimate debate in so
• 34:36
  many things.
• 34:37
  Yeah.
• 34:37
  In so many things.
• 34:40
  And I guess, I don't know. I know that's a really hard thing to talk about.
• 34:45
  Yeah, it is.
• 34:46
  I wasn't planning on talking about that, but it just kind of came to me.
• 34:49
  I think it's good to just keep the conversation spiking because
• 34:56
  the places that don't feel good is really what we, that's what we deal with.
• 35:00
  Yeah.
• 35:00
  That is our job.
• 35:02
  Yeah.
• 35:02
  And so,
• 35:04
  yeah. So I mean, you can't just walk it off.
• 35:07
  Yeah.
• 35:08
  And then you also don't want to turn to just drinking it off or like-
• 35:12
  Yeah.
• 35:12
  But it is, as a healthcare industry, I mean, it's our
• 35:18
  daily.
• 35:19
  It's what we live.
• 35:20
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  We see it with our patients.
• 35:22
  Yeah.
• 35:22
  Um.
• 35:23
  Suffering is, I always say suffering is unethical.
• 35:28
  Yeah.
• 35:28
  And because the question of narcotics comes up a lot, especially with
• 35:34
  elderly patients.
• 35:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:36
  They're hurting. They're just bedridden.
• 35:39
  A lot of them say they are enrolled in hospice that are six months or less to live,
• 35:45
  estimated. It's like, how much is too much? Well, you treat the pain.
• 35:50
  Yeah. Yeah, and everyone's so different, right?
• 35:52
  Yeah.
• 35:52
  Not everyone reacts the same way-
• 35:54
  Yes
• 35:54
  ... to the same, and that's, I think, the difficult piece.
• 35:57
  There's this like-
• 36:00
  There's this, we have to treat everyone the same way.
• 36:03
  There's like-
• 36:03
  Protocol
• 36:04
  ... protocol. This-
• 36:05
  Yes
• 36:06
  ... standardization that needs to apply to everybody, but there has to be,
• 36:11
  what am I trying to say? Like-
• 36:12
  Intelligence, judgment.
• 36:13
  Judgment
• 36:13
  Clinical judgment to override.
• 36:15
  Yeah. There has to be-
• 36:17
  Yes
• 36:17
  ... a level of being able to go outside of the guardrails-
• 36:20
  Yes
• 36:20
  ... when necessary, when needed
• 36:22
  Without calling that cavalier.
• 36:23
  Yes.
• 36:24
  Or rogue.
• 36:26
  Yes.
• 36:27
  I will not use that terminology with clinical judgment calls that are...
• 36:32
  There's a certain range.
• 36:33
  Yeah.
• 36:33
  If you're outside of that, there's first, second-degree-
• 36:36
  Yeah
• 36:37
  ... thinking, but then if you're way over here, okay, fine, then you went-
• 36:40
  Yeah
• 36:40
  ... awry.
• 36:41
  Healthcare's such a personal thing.
• 36:43
  It's personal.
• 36:43
  It should be between you and your physician.
• 36:46
  Yes.
• 36:46
  It is a collaborative relationship.
• 36:49
  Yes.
• 36:49
  It is not a relationship between
• 36:52
  this politician over here or this person over here-
• 36:55
  Yeah
• 36:55
  ... who thinks very strongly about something.
• 36:58
  At the end of the day, it's about the patient-
• 36:59
  Yes
• 37:00
  ... and the provider.
• 37:01
  Yep.
• 37:01
  And them agreeing on what the treatment plan is.
• 37:04
  Yes.
• 37:05
  Yeah.
• 37:05
  Yeah. And it's like whenever people bring in the medical-legal aspect, it's like
• 37:10
  this is a crowd. Okay?
• 37:13
  Yeah.
• 37:13
  We have a crowd here. It's no longer just A and B.
• 37:16
  Yeah.
• 37:16
  There's all of these other players in the treatment plan.
• 37:19
  Yeah.
• 37:20
  Does it help more than it hurt, or does it hurt more than it helps?
• 37:23
  I-
• 37:24
  I know.
• 37:25
  That brings me to the topic of that end-of-life discussion with your family
• 37:31
  and being able to have those direct conversations about what you want done in the
• 37:37
  event that you're in a... Derek was a do not resuscitate, DNR, hard on that.
• 37:42
  Yeah.
• 37:42
  And he would always make me promise, "If I'm ever...
• 37:45
  I don't want to be a vegetable. I don't-"
• 37:46
  Yeah.
• 37:48
  So I don't know. In a way, I feel lucky that I was able to have those types of
• 37:51
  conversations with him-
• 37:53
  Yeah
• 37:53
  ... because I knew how he felt about it.
• 37:55
  Yeah.
• 37:55
  And in a way, it was comforting to me.
• 38:00
  Yeah.
• 38:00
  But I know not everyone is lucky-
• 38:02
  Right
• 38:02
  ... enough to be able to do that. So I think if I leave anyone with anything, with
• 38:06
  a morsel of advice, is have those hard conversations with the people that you love-
• 38:12
  Yeah
• 38:12
  ... while they're here. Because you may not get closure, and life happens so
• 38:16
  quickly.
• 38:17
  Yes.
• 38:18
  And take care of yourself. Allow yourself to be free and to
• 38:23
  experience life the way that you want.
• 38:25
  I love that. Do you feel like your nervous system has swung back the other way or
• 38:31
  overshot?
• 38:32
  No. I think I'm coming to this level of calm.
• 38:36
  I'm able to sit here and talk to you about the hardest thing I went through without
• 38:40
  crying, and-
• 38:41
  It's really impressive
• 38:42
  ... and it is emotional-
• 38:44
  Yeah
• 38:44
  ... but I think I'm feel regulated, and it feels good.
• 38:47
  It's a level of healing.
• 38:48
  I never thought I would get here, and yet here I am.
• 38:50
  Yeah.
• 38:51
  So thank you for asking that question, Valerie.
• 38:53
  Yeah. Definitely. If anybody were to want
• 38:59
  support or would like to connect in any sort of way, how would they reach you?
• 39:03
  Oh, InstaJesus on Instagram. But if you're looking for
• 39:08
  resources, the American Society for Suicide
• 39:14
  Prevention was something that really helped me when I was in San Francisco.
• 39:18
  They do this annual walk where you can meet other people who've gone through the
• 39:22
  same thing, and I think that was the biggest thing that helped me, to be able to
• 39:26
  talk to other people who've lived it, to hear their stories, their experiences,
• 39:30
  because it is such a lonely thing to go through.
• 39:34
  Yep.
• 39:35
  And
• 39:36
  so they're a really great place to get connected.
• 39:39
  Trevor Project, I'll always
• 39:42
  rep them. They're an organization Derek was really passionate about.
• 39:46
  And yeah, there's a lot of really great resources online tonight.
• 39:49
  We'll continue to talk about this stuff on my Instagram because I think it's really
• 39:52
  important.
• 39:53
  Yeah.
• 39:54
  So thank you for the opportunity to be here, Valerie-
• 39:55
  Definitely
• 39:56
  ... and talk about it.
• 39:56
  Yeah. Thank you for your bravery to share it.
• 39:59
  And yeah, I think a lot of listeners would also like to
• 40:05
  know, in your opinion, do you think that talking about it is for everybody, or is
• 40:10
  it something, like you said, sitting in silence?
• 40:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 40:12
  Or maybe, I guess, both.
• 40:14
  Yeah, I think both. Kind of understanding what that person wants.
• 40:17
  Yeah.
• 40:18
  I know I shared earlier, I'm a fixer, and I just tend to go in and want to solve
• 40:22
  things.
• 40:22
  Yeah.
• 40:23
  But I think kind of taking a step back and asking, "What do you need right now?"
• 40:27
  And maybe people will not be able to verbalize, but sitting there.
• 40:31
  I know after I lost Derek, I really appreciated the friends that would just come
• 40:36
  and sit with me.
• 40:37
  Yeah.
• 40:37
  I did not want to be alone in that big old house by myself.
• 40:42
  Yeah.
• 40:42
  And I remember people would come.
• 40:45
  They would just come sit with me, and I would just cry, or I would just sit there,
• 40:49
  and they would, that physical touch, that hug-
• 40:52
  Yeah
• 40:52
  ... meant so much.
• 40:53
  Yeah.
• 40:53
  Meant so, so much. And I think if that, like-
• 40:56
  So just being present with somebody.
• 40:58
  Present.
• 40:58
  Don't need to talk about it. If that person wants to share, then let them.
• 41:03
  Yeah.
• 41:03
  And don't try to give advice. Just be a sounding board.
• 41:06
  Yeah. And say, "That's valid."
• 41:08
  Yeah.
• 41:08
  "That's valid. I love you. I'm here for you," means a lot.
• 41:13
  Super helpful.
• 41:14
  Yeah. Thank you.
• 41:15
  Is there anything else that you would like for us to share, or-
• 41:20
  I think that's it. Just spread love.
• 41:22
  Yeah. Yes.
• 41:22
  Be kind to one another, and
• 41:26
  be your beautiful selves.
• 41:28
  I love that. Well, you're good at that part, so
• 41:32
  let's do this again sometime too.
• 41:34
  I would love that. We need to talk about peptides and working out next.
• 41:39
  Yes, please.
• 41:39
  Well, thank you, Valerie, for the opportunity.
• 41:40
  Love you, and have a beautiful rest of your evening.
• 41:42
  Same here. So thank you for stopping in the studio, Dr.
• 41:46
  Salley, White Coat, Black Sheep.