Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Boom Town

Transcript

Talks to Si Hart & Frazer Gregory about their choice of Boom Town · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:41
  Welcome back to dinner and bondage.
• 0:43
  The restaurant review podcast where today we're going to be
• 0:46
  taking a trip through Cardiff Bay.
• 0:49
  Yay, we are going to be returning to a restaurant that I
• 0:52
  have visited before golden Bistro 10.
• 0:55
  Now this is a very interesting little restaurant because the
• 0:58
  last time I was there, there was a bit of a domestic going on
• 1:01
  between what I thought was the Lord mayor but obviously
• 1:05
  couldn't have been in a gentleman in a leather jacket
• 1:08
  and ended up. Oh, Bizarre when all the windows
• 1:12
  fell in and we all had to run out because the sky was on fire.
• 1:15
  But never mind. We're going to go back again and
• 1:17
  see what happens this time. So, I'm joined by two wonderful
• 1:19
  Gentlemen. Please introduce yourself.
• 1:21
  Say hello there. Simon hello there and say hello
• 1:25
  there. Joe.
• 1:27
  Hi there. So, are we all excited for our
• 1:29
  trip to Bistro 10 and Cardiff Bay?
• 1:32
  Absolutely, I'm gonna have a nice Italian meal, so I would
• 1:37
  you fancy steak and chips. It does look good, doesn't it?
• 1:42
  It does. yeah, I mean I think I probably know already but what
• 1:48
  we're talking about today Boomtown Boomtown I mean it does
• 1:55
  exactly what it says on the tin. All right.
• 1:58
  Yeah it does. It never goes.
• 2:00
  Boom. That's the whole point of the
• 2:03
  plot but em. Yeah.
• 2:06
  Series 1, Chris Eccleston. Did he pay per bushel?
• 2:13
  T Davies? What you doing buddy?
• 2:15
  Freddy it's what people expect something a bit more insightful,
• 2:22
  this you know, Well, it was it's a good credible.
• 2:29
  Is that by this point of the season Doctor Who is riding
• 2:34
  really, really high. I I remember I was house hunting
• 2:39
  the week that aliens of London had gone out and I walked past
• 2:43
  my old Primary School. I've got a love you for you
• 2:46
  here. And in the very same space,
• 2:49
  where I used to play Doctor, Who in the playground there were
• 2:53
  kids. As I was walking past At
• 2:55
  playtime who were unzipping their heads.
• 2:58
  Wow, and being sleepy and it was just amazing to see that and
• 3:02
  amazing to see how even before the Daleks had arrived Doctor,
• 3:07
  Who had suddenly grabbed these kids and sees their imagination
• 3:13
  and off. It was going again for New
• 3:16
  Generation. I, I don't know how how you both
• 3:20
  felt, but I went into the new series. if a little bit of
• 3:26
  trepidation like you didn't know quite what was going to go on
• 3:30
  there, being all these rumors about what was going to change
• 3:33
  and what was going to stay the same and where the data is going
• 3:36
  to be an it were they not all of this and then Rose turned up and
• 3:43
  oh my God it's like the fastest thing ever that 45 minutes of
• 3:48
  gone in about 12 seconds it felt it just felt so fast-paced and
• 3:54
  we were safe say and it was brilliant and we'd already got a
• 3:57
  second series and the doctor of left and this has happened and
• 4:00
  this is not that so much has happened over these sort of
• 4:04
  where are we 11 weeks in and this point you know and would be
• 4:09
  non this huge roller coaster but suddenly it was just the hugest
• 4:13
  hugest thing and it was the it was like we always knew Doctor
• 4:18
  Who could do this. It's like suddenly for the very
• 4:21
  first time in my lifetime, particularly it Ali did do this.
• 4:26
  It was at the center of everything and it was the most
• 4:28
  popular show on TV. I, I was one of those people
• 4:34
  that download you bros before I. Hey, Joe, oh, Bart.
• 4:39
  So, we've got so furious with people about that.
• 4:44
  So, we went, at least buy it from us.
• 4:46
  Dodgy, dear are behind a public side us for some reason, it
• 4:51
  wouldn't show me the pictures. Listen to this thing.
• 4:55
  And I was listening to this however go this can't be it.
• 4:58
  What is this? But I know I actually wasn't
• 5:02
  impressed at all. And then I watched row.
• 5:06
  So I was like, okay that's pretty good.
• 5:08
  As a good introduction, but it's not as benefit.
• 5:10
  Then I wish you into the world and the underworld blew me away.
• 5:13
  So much in its scope and its character work have funny.
• 5:17
  It was household, canvas silly, it was.
• 5:22
  And from then on, I was just on board, I'm quite dead and he's
• 5:24
  an underworld will freak garlic. It was one knockout after
• 5:27
  another. By the time we got to boom time.
• 5:30
  We'll just have the instructor got starts.
• 5:31
  He's which I was just in. Captured by that and I was like,
• 5:36
  well. Okay, what's coming next?
• 5:38
  This surprised me a lot because this is one of my favorites of
• 5:42
  the year, but I don't think that's a popular opinion.
• 5:45
  I don't know. It's quite divisive food down
• 5:51
  and I mean I thought I was, you know, when I watch this, it was
• 5:56
  a get was that mix of excitement.
• 5:58
  And trepidation I've said, say was what we're going to get?
• 6:01
  Are we going to get the themes? You know, we're going to get you
• 6:03
  know, the Tardis are we going to get a costume on Words of one
• 6:06
  another chocolate and you know, there was There was things.
• 6:09
  Look for diminish things like, you know, scared in.
• 6:13
  It took me a lot of time to actually settle, you know, just
• 6:16
  with the change from, you know, 25 minutes that's way of
• 6:22
  Storytelling all over, you know, four episodes to just be more
• 6:26
  like the Star Trek make, you know, one story per week, you
• 6:30
  know, going through the arc, the which won't know what I'm really
• 6:35
  going to talk about of bad wolf creeping in.
• 6:38
  In, you know, settled a bit of nerve because that was something
• 6:40
  to get a bit excited about. But I would say it wasn't
• 6:43
  probably your until until they're empty child and Doctor
• 6:47
  dances. That, you know, I've felt
• 6:49
  comfortable with the series, you know, just because it was, it
• 6:53
  was so, so new and different. And another thing I'll talk
• 6:56
  about a bit later as Russell was, very clever in every single
• 7:00
  episode in this series, he put something in, that's subvert.
• 7:04
  That rope from classic fandom, you know, every episode has just
• 7:09
  one or two little things which as a classic fan makes it and
• 7:12
  go. Oh yeah, I've never thought of
• 7:14
  that are. Oh yeah, yeah, the one that got
• 7:18
  made was the teaser of areas of London where we've never done
• 7:24
  well, who's missing them while they're away?
• 7:27
  You're like, how have we never done this in 26 Seasons?
• 7:30
  Yeah, yeah. And to bring it back a year
• 7:33
  late. That was stymied has all its up
• 7:37
  compelling character, but didn't Division.
• 7:40
  I was like, hey, we never done that.
• 7:43
  I think the thing is, is we tend to forget don't we wouldn't be
• 7:46
  think of billions of London as just being the one with the
• 7:49
  foreign aliens in it. But you forget that bit at the
• 7:52
  start, which is a really, really terrific.
• 7:55
  And I think probably a lot of people have just written off
• 7:58
  Boomtown as being the one that's in between and, you know, part
• 8:03
  of the ways and the Uh dancers, you know, and it's just this
• 8:06
  little little bit of filler. But honest that the things that
• 8:10
  that was all those in this is, is quite amusing.
• 8:13
  I'm perfectly convinced. This is the most magnificent.
• 8:16
  That's why is it Innovative is? How you say it and it doesn't
• 8:19
  fit. Thank you.
• 8:21
  It's the most vat episode this season because I don't think
• 8:26
  we've ever done the doctor dealing with the consequences of
• 8:30
  his actions in such a powerful way.
• 8:34
  Like he has to choose like make big choices doesn't say about
• 8:39
  something that he's brought down and some of the dialogue.
• 8:43
  It's really in your face is very hard hit you.
• 8:46
  Yeah. And considering that this was a
• 8:49
  last-minute replacement for a script that fell through and
• 8:52
  this was written in a hurry. Well, it's It's amazing.
• 8:59
  Really that it if it does all the pigs it does and then it
• 9:03
  sets up the resolution of this of the Season as well.
• 9:08
  I mean, from what I've heard about that script that fell, so
• 9:10
  I think that's a very good thing.
• 9:12
  Why, what was it about? The doctor has genetically
• 9:18
  engineered Rose to be the perfect companion.
• 9:21
  Know who is Right? Honest, I can't remember, I
• 9:26
  can't remember. But all I was Just going through
• 9:28
  Wikipedia last night and you know, reading and doing some
• 9:31
  homework because I like to do homework for you to and looking
• 9:34
  at us to say that's that's not a good idea.
• 9:38
  I would much rather have 45 minutes flirting with a net
• 9:40
  Badlands, you know? Yes, I'm outside for we've
• 9:43
  going, what a performance like. Yeah, again, this is Russell,
• 9:49
  redressing, the balance and realizing that he, she was
• 9:52
  capable of far more than he gave her in Aliens of London.
• 9:57
  And we are In the pre credits teaser, where we get the reprise
• 10:01
  from Aliens of London, then we've just got that tiny scene,
• 10:04
  where the doctor and Margaret are facing off against each
• 10:08
  other. And suddenly, you could is
• 10:11
  almost like, you can hear Russell said, oh, oh no, we need
• 10:15
  to give her more. Let's get it back.
• 10:16
  Let's get it back. Let's do something more with her
• 10:18
  because she's so brilliant, and we can give a better material.
• 10:21
  Then I've given her in the first time, and I can read sort of
• 10:24
  sets, the slitheen and make them better.
• 10:28
  Sir. And I could do this and I could
• 10:29
  do this and I could, and I've got an opportunity isn't exactly
• 10:32
  the point, isn't it? The toilet where it's all fart
• 10:37
  jokes again and then it suddenly turns really serious.
• 10:39
  When there were says whole, she's got a baby, she's getting
• 10:42
  married and you're like, what's going on here?
• 10:44
  This is a the eggs of London, route of just, you know, just
• 10:48
  being about gasbag not. It's just more sophisticated
• 10:51
  characterization fucking funny as well.
• 10:54
  It's obvious. It's just got one of the best
• 10:56
  far sequences in order. Of dr.
• 10:58
  Ho where they where they try to capture Margaret rate saw this
• 11:02
  very icy patch. Should we actually get into the
• 11:05
  episode and discuss how we can just talk about it.
• 11:08
  It's the new series you see, is that, you know, you only have 45
• 11:12
  minutes to talk about. You have to have a bit for you.
• 11:14
  Have wise, you never get to chat about anything, right there is
• 11:17
  there is one thing I want to say before the win.
• 11:19
  Yeah, you've got nasty things to say about it.
• 11:21
  So no will deal with that. What do you want that?
• 11:24
  But the thing I want to say is that this episode, you know, I
• 11:26
  went to Credit to the start. This episode has got two actors
• 11:32
  in it. Who since this episode has been
• 11:38
  made Revelations, have been made about these actors and the way
• 11:42
  that they behave off screen, Which is less than well, it's
• 11:48
  shameful essentially, I just want to make it clear that any
• 11:52
  sort of appreciation of these actors that I make do.
• 11:58
  This commentary is no reflection on what I think of them.
• 12:01
  As people, it is very much, you know, a reflection on how
• 12:06
  they've performed in this story. I know, you know what's the word
• 12:12
  I'm looking for? You're not endorsing any
• 12:18
  endorsement. Yes, it's no.
• 12:19
  Endorsement of them is, you know, whatever you might feel
• 12:22
  about John Barrowman and no Clark, you know anything, I say
• 12:25
  about them in this commentary is no endorsement or or anything
• 12:29
  otherwise of them. So, I just wanted to make that
• 12:32
  that clear before we start, I met Jesus Christ, razor, I'm
• 12:36
  recording this with you. With John Barrowman.
• 12:37
  No Clara are doing. Tell us when triangle weekend, I
• 12:40
  mean, I'm hitting all the controversy in one week, but, I
• 12:45
  mean, I do. Made my position very clear the
• 12:46
  past in that I can absolutely separate the art and the artist
• 12:51
  and that's not equipped with me as not, be condemning, anybody
• 12:54
  that can't and that is your choice as to whether you watch
• 12:57
  something or not. Yes, don't tell me whether I
• 13:00
  have something that's much. Exactly.
• 13:02
  And this is, this is the thing is that it we're here in 2022 17
• 13:09
  years on from from, when this was broadcast, lots of things
• 13:14
  have happened in that Time attitudes have changed things
• 13:19
  that were maybe acceptable, then are not acceptable now, and it
• 13:24
  goes on and on and on and things and standards change.
• 13:28
  And that doesn't mean you can't enjoy the episodes for what you
• 13:33
  have in front of you. And sometimes, you do need to
• 13:37
  divorce the actor from the character and otherwise you'd
• 13:42
  never be able to watch anything that was made before last Last
• 13:45
  week or listen to anything either and I may I just say as a
• 13:49
  moment. If you don't like dick jokes,
• 13:51
  you can always press stop on have some of blood penknife.
• 13:53
  All right. Okay. 400 episodes of Dick
• 13:56
  jokes. Well, praise, I thank you for
• 14:04
  bringing about that step. That's definitely worth talking
• 14:06
  about right side. You want to come too soon?
• 14:10
  I will counter said okay, in five four, three, two Two, one,
• 14:17
  Boom, Town, boom! Oh my God!
• 14:22
  Previously, all the spent the season, they destroyed big fan
• 14:27
  and unzip the heads. And sudden do we need a reprise
• 14:31
  at this point? You think?
• 14:32
  Well, ah, I think it's quite nice, that where it's sort of
• 14:36
  linking back to where we've been, and I think also a lot of
• 14:40
  the episodes were seriously under running through this
• 14:42
  series, so it's a way of padding it.
• 14:45
  A out a bit. Well, I don't think it does any
• 14:47
  harm. I think it is pertinent to the
• 14:49
  episode. You're about to watch.
• 14:51
  Yes. This is Big Ben.
• 14:55
  Do you think it's it's maybe he's a bit of a You know RTD
• 15:03
  doesn't really fully understand what he's got at this moment.
• 15:07
  You know that people are watching this you know
• 15:13
  underestimation of the audience perhaps.
• 15:15
  Yes I maybe they did this so here we've got our first guest
• 15:19
  star who has returned from the classic series of Doctor Who
• 15:23
  this? And this is the Undertaker from
• 15:26
  remembrance of the Daleks oh she is I thought he was an old guy.
• 15:31
  We've waited that's the guy and Fraser Mi I just can't track
• 15:37
  something just said that I did not think he's under estimating
• 15:40
  the audience to putting out previously on because that is
• 15:44
  the language of Television these days every show does that out.
• 15:48
  So that's that means there's an awful lot of underestimation
• 15:51
  going on. Think you know five or ten years
• 15:57
  ago maybe that was the case but I think now certainly post
• 16:00
  pandemic. The television audience is very
• 16:03
  binge so you won't necessarily need a previously on but yeah
• 16:11
  you're right. There shouldn't be an
• 16:13
  expectation that it was going to watch every episode.
• 16:15
  You may just catch the one. Okay.
• 16:20
  Zips in the heads, the slovene. The Father's Day in absolute
• 16:27
  genius. I think that such a clever.
• 16:30
  I'd the zip idea is just just amazing.
• 16:34
  I think that was a moment of inspiration.
• 16:38
  Well, y'all got a shot for both of you.
• 16:40
  Then, are you ready to say, sorry.
• 16:48
  See how lovely that the M, the scream of the saline and mr.
• 16:54
  Cleaver leads into the title. Yeah, it works perfectly,
• 16:57
  doesn't it? Yeah.
• 16:58
  That's this Bonnie Langford of. We got Joe a Hyundai directing
• 17:03
  this and I think he was the the standout direct from the first
• 17:07
  series and it was such a shame. He didn't come back for more.
• 17:11
  I mean I know he said he did everything he could for this and
• 17:15
  gate. He directed a lot of episodes
• 17:16
  because Christopher Eccleston Trusted him.
• 17:20
  But I had learned the other day apparently his part because he
• 17:23
  was living up in Cardiff and directing all.
• 17:25
  This is part of basically said I'll leave you if you know so
• 17:29
  that basically his truck. He was away for a year.
• 17:32
  You know. Not many people yeah, they're
• 17:33
  over offer a year so here's card.
• 17:35
  If I have looked into the gorgeous, I mean we're so used
• 17:39
  to this being tortured now, aren't we?
• 17:43
  Such a beautiful high shot and the Tardis just framed as a tiny
• 17:47
  object in this big. Big Square.
• 17:51
  It's beautiful. I did say it's like a love
• 17:54
  letter to Cardiff, which is the city I wasn't welcome, dr.
• 17:56
  Moon literally just about to say that that's, you know, it's oh
• 18:02
  but was one of the things wasn't.
• 18:03
  It's am, you know, or salty Davis.
• 18:05
  He's a Welshman is going to make everything Welsh and everything
• 18:08
  in. Well, we got one of them right
• 18:10
  in this one. Did all those little bit guy who
• 18:14
  are dressed me, we can have a say like Billie, Piper looks
• 18:18
  gorgeous in this. This is her very best.
• 18:23
  Look, I think she is absolutely beautiful here.
• 18:26
  Now, look, we get this out-of-the-way place because in
• 18:28
  The Impossible Planet, you are both very mean about Rose,
• 18:31
  Tyler? All right, so what do you think
• 18:32
  about series one, Rose, Tyler, Frazier em.
• 18:36
  She is pretty much just as annoying, really bought the with
• 18:41
  you, the dynamic between her and the 9th.
• 18:46
  Doctor is very different, you know, it with that.
• 18:49
  Start setting possible Planet. It's laid on with a trowel
• 18:54
  because of, you know, where we start with and where we end with
• 18:58
  them, you know, to get that, you know, Maximum Impact of that
• 19:03
  last scene in doomsday, you know, it has to be built up and
• 19:08
  built up and built up as much as I can.
• 19:10
  And that's all that happens to to Series 2, in series one.
• 19:14
  It's a lot more subtle and I think it's You know, it's better
• 19:19
  for it in as much as you know, Rose loses her doctor butcher,
• 19:23
  doesn't she's getting another one whereas, you know, when
• 19:26
  doomsday of the both separated. So I think it's series series.
• 19:30
  One is her story Series 2? It becomes the doctors story, or
• 19:34
  the doctrine roses story? Yes, I think it's both their
• 19:37
  stories in series to. But, you know, it seems to sets
• 19:41
  the tenth doctor down his path of where he ends up as like the
• 19:46
  laundry the last of the time Lords.
• 19:48
  Lords and you know, the lonely figure you know, the man with
• 19:52
  the quiver in here full of emotion and whereas series one
• 19:57
  it's again it's it's a bit more, finding its feet doesn't.
• 20:01
  It's a bit more, you know, is it a true romance in your candle,
• 20:06
  go with the Romantic angle or good?
• 20:07
  People going to buy that? I think them.
• 20:10
  One of the things we'll find Percy was one is there is a lot
• 20:12
  of testing the water and there's a lot of what can we get away
• 20:16
  with? Yeah, Actually because then I
• 20:19
  don't they do things in one that I don't do again.
• 20:21
  No. Yeah they get away with some
• 20:23
  things that they don't do again as well.
• 20:25
  What are you decide what what I really like and to key in this
• 20:29
  story is that the told his team are absolutely insufferable when
• 20:37
  they're together but you've got Mickey coming in and telling
• 20:41
  them that they're insufferable and they pare it down and
• 20:45
  eventually he gets in on the joke with them all as well.
• 20:48
  Well, and that's so they're inclusive.
• 20:51
  They're not exclusive to what's going on about them.
• 20:54
  I really really like the relationship between the Ninth
• 20:57
  Doctor and Rose. I think it's superb and they're
• 21:01
  finding each other and making each other better.
• 21:04
  And I think that's a lovely doctor companion, Dynamic.
• 21:08
  And of course, she's going to fall in love with him.
• 21:10
  And of course he's going to fall in love with her because
• 21:13
  they're, they're better people together.
• 21:18
  Adding Jackson, the mix that when they did.
• 21:21
  I think he landed at exactly the right time.
• 21:23
  Yeah, it's just adds we never really have a sort of sexy sassy
• 21:29
  male companion before and it just adds a whole new dimension.
• 21:33
  Yes, I said, I think this run from empty child for his, the
• 21:36
  pie of the ways, it's near Heelys, it's a superb stuffing.
• 21:42
  And I really like what I really like about this story is it's
• 21:46
  the 9th doctor finally. Going out and he's going to have
• 21:49
  a lovely day and he's just surrounded by people that he
• 21:52
  actually likes, even Ricky Mickey, even though he takes the
• 21:55
  piss, he does secretly admire him.
• 21:58
  What he's doing. So we know this because yeah,
• 22:00
  because we've had that scene at the end of World War 3.
• 22:03
  Okay, wait. And so he's just for the first
• 22:07
  time ever, finally comfortable happy and then it gets ruined by
• 22:14
  a newspaper reports. Speaking of which, I think, you
• 22:18
  know, I love this scene where work now, which is the Margaret
• 22:23
  slutty in And the reporter just going through all that accident,
• 22:27
  something. And how she delivered, which It
• 22:29
  Was Written in Welsh, what is she says he slipped on an icy
• 22:33
  patch was decapitate. It was it was very icy patch
• 22:40
  delivers it so well because it would place The absolutely
• 22:47
  right. Is that, there's no way you can
• 22:49
  take this plot seriously. Oh, no.
• 22:51
  It's not meant to be taken. Seriously.
• 22:53
  It doesn't for god sakes. You're not that it's a two-part
• 22:57
  series. There's no way.
• 22:58
  You can just stir, always loved the line, whether so they're
• 23:01
  going to knock down card gift card.
• 23:20
  Both established in this story in the beginning.
• 23:23
  The final. Yeah.
• 23:24
  Well, that was a question. I was going to ask you to kind
• 23:29
  of the the mirror opposite of the question.
• 23:30
  I asked her when we did essentially of the Cybermen and
• 23:32
  the times children, which is should.
• 23:35
  We also, what else we discuss this?
• 23:37
  Should we be talking about parting of the ways?
• 23:43
  That's a lot. It has a lot in common but you
• 23:47
  know, is this the dogleg to the oh, like you, like you said
• 23:51
  about wanting a doctor, you can think of is the dogleg to the.
• 23:57
  It's, it's not a bad haul thing throughout the season, doesn't
• 24:03
  it study start down here, they are.
• 24:05
  Yeah, yeah, it stops US. Bad wolf.
• 24:07
  It establishes, the extrapolate establishes that the heart of
• 24:09
  the TARDIS been Magic. But I do feel, I think of this
• 24:15
  episode, as a separate is, a separate, kind of installment
• 24:19
  away from those two episodes, just because you did basically
• 24:22
  the heart of this story, the purpose is the Margaret slovene,
• 24:27
  character work. I think and the arc staff is
• 24:31
  just sort of necessary nuts and bolts.
• 24:33
  And we're not going directly from Boomtown into the possible
• 24:40
  that bad wolf. If there's time for lots of
• 24:43
  Adventures between those stories that could happen, they got well
• 24:47
  they've got to go to rexicoricophalvitorius.
• 24:50
  Ha, ha. Well anyway, grab you know and
• 24:55
  so there's it's not like a direct leading whereas bill of
• 24:59
  villa. Dear Darcy does lead directly
• 25:02
  into Ascension the Cybermen. We've got the fabulous seen
• 25:06
  here. Yes, happy salts really
• 25:09
  Margaret's on the toy as Levine. On the top, we've got a finally,
• 25:13
  a monster on the toilet incarnate, I would be so happy.
• 25:20
  But, you know, more frightening because I think a lot of people
• 25:22
  criticize this Levine costumes. I think that great.
• 25:26
  They moved the CGI eyes, blinking like baby-faced.
• 25:30
  I lied the big belly as you know, kind of related to that
• 25:33
  the huge claws but I think it's very important who's directing
• 25:38
  it? I think Keith bollock,
• 25:40
  unfortunately would linger a little too long on all the wrong
• 25:43
  things. Where is Joe?
• 25:44
  A her there? You just saw a bit the face.
• 25:47
  Look, it's carefully short and he's put a bit of a glycerin on
• 25:52
  the skin as well. The eyes are blinking more.
• 25:55
  That makes makes all the difference.
• 25:57
  And we don't see the CGI version which was quite jarring between
• 26:03
  in those episodes where you're cutting from the physical
• 26:06
  costume to the CGI version that suddenly moves completely
• 26:10
  differently. Yeah, well, I don't know.
• 26:13
  Crying crying, you get back. Listen, but is it as it glisten?
• 26:18
  I was at tears. From Margaret.
• 26:21
  And why is she crying? I'll fix you suddenly realizing
• 26:26
  what she's lost. Yeah.
• 26:29
  So yeah, guys, like us are, you know, you said, you know, that's
• 26:32
  hardest team in this over insufferable, but you got Mickey
• 26:34
  commenting on it. Yeah, I hate to be contrary.
• 26:38
  I think that artists IMA absolutely delightful in this
• 26:40
  our think Nicki is insufferable witness.
• 26:43
  Especially at. Yeah.
• 26:44
  We're if I didn't go to the doctor and I'll shut up, you
• 26:49
  know? Oh yeah, I know I think it's
• 26:51
  just that. That first Todd is seen when
• 26:54
  they're all together and they're finishing their sentences.
• 26:56
  You could, you could read it like that.
• 26:58
  But then, just a team that a comfortable with each other
• 27:02
  going into battle here. I this whole signal.
• 27:06
  It's not battle. It's it's a keeper.
• 27:09
  What we call this clean. Keep
• 27:23
  him going up to the sector and it's like she's climbing out the
• 27:27
  window, isn't she? Yes, you, yes, it's funny.
• 27:31
  But the funniest bit of all is her.
• 27:34
  When they made poor fucking Lynette Banner run up about it.
• 27:39
  She goes she goes. Was it.
• 27:43
  This is persecution. What did I ever do to you?
• 27:45
  Looks like you tried to destroy me and this entire planet apart
• 27:49
  from that. Yeah, it's it's just so
• 27:52
  blissfully fun in the sequence. I love it that teleports oh my
• 27:58
  My cousin Adrian actually was in Cardiff and saw that being
• 28:02
  filmed and sort of, let me know what was going on.
• 28:07
  And to said, if this is, this is brilliant.
• 28:09
  It said you're going to love this episode so much.
• 28:12
  This is a cute little Cameo the secretary.
• 28:14
  Yeah, he's got huge lips. Away.
• 28:20
  Because she really has very plump lips and you stay there.
• 28:25
  Looking in phrases eyes over, you gave me that feed light.
• 28:29
  Did you hear is the sound of her dropping her teacup and his
• 28:35
  little eyebrows as well? Yeah, these just just tried to
• 28:39
  yet. She's not available.
• 28:41
  You know what's interesting is that Joe ahearne obviously is
• 28:44
  he's a bit like Grandma but he used to in action and Spence and
• 28:48
  all of this and grab marketed unicorn the W Jo 100 Boomtown,
• 28:52
  and they proved themselves to be really diverse directors,
• 28:55
  because they do comedy and character work really well as
• 28:58
  well. Mmm, this is great Mickey, we've
• 29:02
  got the toilet, he's always just prints over the cleaning bucket.
• 29:09
  Jacks jumping over the tea, trolley.
• 29:15
  Pouring it battle and honestly it's just funny though, isn't
• 29:20
  it? Imagine her saying I'll do it.
• 29:23
  You keep blaming me back here you know, I don't know why.
• 29:28
  It just cracks me up. Every time I was just in Gales
• 29:31
  of laughter. The first time I saw it.
• 29:33
  I mean, I think it is hilarious. You've got to be fairly
• 29:36
  confident to try and pull off a sequence like this because it
• 29:40
  could fall on his I've seen comedy sequences.
• 29:42
  Is that our labors and what you do here?
• 29:46
  I'm sorry. I think it's critical Stern, you
• 29:49
  know what he's playing. It's so dry, you know, he's not
• 29:53
  exactly playing it straight, you know, you know, it's a comedy
• 29:56
  scene but he's playing it very, very dry and we know she's got
• 30:01
  really what works. It really works.
• 30:02
  Yeah. Now we know that the doctor can
• 30:04
  counteract teleports because he's done it earlier in the
• 30:07
  season but it's just how he gets every time.
• 30:15
  He's just stood there with these little grin.
• 30:18
  See, look at her ass. Go on, as she can move.
• 30:21
  I'm telling you. She's so so funny.
• 30:26
  So like you would almost be willing to expect this is going
• 30:29
  to be a comedy episode. Yeah.
• 30:31
  And I've been replaying this, it plays with your expectations,
• 30:35
  doesn't it, because you're expect, because we've set this
• 30:37
  up now, as it's very funny, it's been full of laughs and then
• 30:43
  suddenly it switches into something entirely different
• 30:47
  Della, think maybe that is what confused a lot of fans at the
• 30:51
  time because they Favorites. Again, it comes back to all
• 30:56
  we're expecting a really silly episode, but we got something
• 30:59
  different and I didn't understand why, and I don't get
• 31:02
  it. Why don't you have things
• 31:04
  happening at once? No, one else is allowed to like
• 31:06
  it. I've got you know it was it's
• 31:08
  not so much you know, that you expect a silly episode, you
• 31:11
  know, Silly episodes are silly episodes and you know there's
• 31:14
  plenty of them that we all really enjoy.
• 31:16
  I think the Real Genius thing with this is that the plots
• 31:19
  finish now You know we all walk yeah now it's Claritin 20
• 31:25
  minutes in and the plots wrapped up essentially the plans been
• 31:28
  filed, what you expect is you know to build up and build up to
• 31:32
  this power to tomorrow's grand scheme, whatever that's going to
• 31:36
  be been foiled in the last sort of like five minutes but
• 31:40
  actually will file the plan. Now what happens now is well you
• 31:44
  think stopped at. So we just do character work, we
• 31:46
  stop there and we have a morality play for the last half.
• 31:50
  But the store in that also. So you've got, you've got
• 31:53
  Margaret improvising and realizing when she's in the
• 31:57
  Tardis and they've got the extrapolator that actually,
• 32:01
  there is still a way she can get get through this and manipulate
• 32:05
  all the characters as well but you know what?
• 32:08
  Actually the distraction of the morality play.
• 32:11
  The plot hasn't stopped. It's just paused, we think is
• 32:15
  stop. We think it's foiled.
• 32:17
  Well actually that plot is is what your goals are.
• 32:20
  Almost Justice Ravine. I've been told it grows Ransom,
• 32:24
  it does it comes back in the last five minutes with some you
• 32:26
  know you know Grand Finale but to all intents and purposes were
• 32:30
  done. Now we could just pop off and
• 32:33
  you know have another little half story somewhere.
• 32:35
  We've got the spooky Time, Lord music and it's true, isn't it?
• 32:41
  Yeah. And they've seen that lots of
• 32:44
  times and we're finally addressing that.
• 32:46
  They know that they're seeing this all over.
• 32:49
  And this was new language for Doctor Who was, yeah, we didn't
• 32:53
  do our clients. Yeah.
• 32:55
  And then the doctor completely undercuts, it's a guy was
• 32:57
  probably all the coincidences. Yeah, we're both.
• 33:00
  That's that wonderful moment in Bad Wolf where you see that bad
• 33:04
  wolf side, don't you? Yeah.
• 33:06
  And then the wonderful scene in potty of the ways where there in
• 33:10
  the playground, and it's hevery where, Are you still there?
• 33:15
  You know, that choke? Mmm.
• 33:18
  Right. Not being able to wash it away.
• 33:21
  I think I do need to agree with sigh that specifically in this
• 33:24
  scene. The Tardis team are quite
• 33:26
  insufferable. In my opinion, people just don't
• 33:29
  like people having a good time. You want a more physically fit?
• 33:35
  Yeah, that was when he was shitting on everyone's good
• 33:39
  time, he puts God but when I go listen to that episode was
• 33:45
  fabulous, What do you think of the characterization of Captain
• 33:49
  Jack? Yeah, because I think he's a
• 33:52
  little bit too over-the-top. I think, you know, got a lot to
• 33:55
  do to say in this, when he does it, he he makes the most out of
• 34:01
  it, shall we see? What do you expect?
• 34:05
  I don't get subtle. But this does that work for you
• 34:09
  guys. Are would you order either?
• 34:12
  Would you prefer a bit more sort of like, subtle Jack that we do
• 34:14
  getting Torchwood? I think you'll get like that.
• 34:17
  Ooh, Jack better? Yeah, I think I agree.
• 34:21
  You're getting this offseason breakfast in the pipe, but, you
• 34:23
  know, so it's not like, you're shortchanged know, and it's a
• 34:27
  contrast games. So I think that that's why he
• 34:31
  fits in so well because he's different to the two of them.
• 34:36
  Yeah. So, this is it.
• 34:38
  This is where she suddenly starts tables and saying, you
• 34:41
  know, can you look me in the eye?
• 34:44
  This is what's going to happen to me.
• 34:45
  If you take me back home, can you look me in the eye and kill
• 34:49
  me effectively? Yeah, the clever thing is, is
• 34:52
  Margaret sword. He knows what's going to happen
• 34:54
  because she's already set this extrapolate up to mess with the
• 34:57
  Tardis and open the rift and carry out the plan.
• 34:59
  So, she knows exactly what's going to happen.
• 35:01
  She's just stalling. Now, she's playing for time,
• 35:04
  which is doing it in the way of You know, exploiting their
• 35:07
  weaknesses, you know, she knows the loot in the, she is yeah,
• 35:11
  she's Altra manipulative here. She's she's Works them.
• 35:15
  All out. She knows it's just the schmuck
• 35:19
  way. She sits down there and looks at
• 35:22
  them all. Yeah, none of them.
• 35:25
  They all look. Yeah.
• 35:28
  And and we have to remember Mickey has been accused of
• 35:31
  murder effectively earlier in the season.
• 35:36
  That was such an interesting touch was.
• 35:38
  No, I'm not sure they do that again.
• 35:40
  No, I don't think they would And the doctor can only glanced up.
• 35:46
  Yes out again, it's the genius, the second.
• 35:49
  But a genius of this is is that this is the element that is in
• 35:54
  this story that we have not asked fans coming into this
• 35:57
  after 20 North. This year's was a big 30 years.
• 36:01
  35 years is that would never put the doctors morality under the
• 36:07
  microscope as much as we do in this story.
• 36:10
  No, and I don't think we do since Is literally just, you
• 36:16
  know, a whole, you know, 20 minutes of discussing more about
• 36:21
  the doctors morality and that's why I love it so much.
• 36:24
  The story is, I'll also tell you what anyone can do that sort of
• 36:30
  at the point hard-hitting dialogue about morality, I think
• 36:35
  Rusty Davis. Does it extremely well?
• 36:38
  And he does it here in a way that it gets across to kids and
• 36:41
  adults as well. Yeah.
• 36:43
  No, because this comedy in there as well, there's that whole
• 36:45
  sequence, you know, the different way.
• 36:48
  She's trying to kill me and my own business absolutely there.
• 36:51
  It's then. Then it just turns on a diet,
• 36:53
  doesn't it? But she goes, they're going to
• 36:54
  execute it. You know.
• 36:56
  Yes and you'll just sit back. No.
• 36:58
  Whoa. You know we were laughing a
• 37:00
  second ago and in the meantime we've got all this very
• 37:04
  interesting character, exploration of rows going on
• 37:08
  with Mickey and it's painful and she's horrible.
• 37:13
  But she's human that is just what people are like.
• 37:18
  And I think it's brilliant that they don't Russell doesn't make
• 37:21
  her perfect. She's are really hugely flawed
• 37:26
  and selfish and we've said this before but here it is
• 37:30
  demonstrated completely. She brought Mickey back for a
• 37:34
  shack because she knows she's got him completely under
• 37:38
  control. He will do exactly what she
• 37:43
  says. And you know what he does, he
• 37:45
  does like the thing where he says, oh so-and-so fancies me to
• 37:49
  make her jealous like, trying to hump her in some ways.
• 37:53
  And it's, it's so not what we're used to hearing about.
• 37:56
  Who is it? It's no.
• 37:57
  This is it. And the whole sort of how does
• 38:00
  being the doctors companion affect your relationship with
• 38:05
  never ask that question? No, no, I think that's it's an
• 38:10
  important episode for Mickey, just as much as it is.
• 38:13
  For yes. Anyone else, you know, if we
• 38:15
  think about Mickey's Arc, you know, in this series and the
• 38:19
  next series will go from, you know, Mickey the idiot has
• 38:22
  current behind rows in front of the TARDIS.
• 38:24
  You know, we then have actually ears, you know, a worthwhile
• 38:30
  character, you know, the doctor invites him into the Tardis,
• 38:33
  it's his decision not to and then you know that that side of
• 38:37
  him just grows and grows and grows to the point where in sort
• 38:40
  of school, you know, he's well on board for going the Tardis
• 38:42
  and, you know, No, you know, have an impact in the girl in
• 38:46
  the fireplace, but in terms of his relationship with rules as
• 38:49
  well, that we need this episode because this is very much the
• 38:52
  point where it's not so much Mickey's, teasing them.
• 38:54
  You know, he's genuinely trying to move on but you can't
• 38:57
  because, you know, you always keep Lettin.
• 38:59
  Ya rules keeps pulling back. Rules needs to move on as well,
• 39:03
  but she can't because the still that connection with Mickey saw
• 39:06
  we need this sound and that is completely broken in The Parting
• 39:11
  of the ways we've discussed off-mike.
• 39:14
  That seemed in the cafe when Rose comes back and the
• 39:18
  relationships. She certainly has with her mum
• 39:21
  and Mickey and how her life has moved on.
• 39:25
  And there's is exactly where it was that they are excited about
• 39:30
  trying a new pizza place that serves pizza and that's that's
• 39:36
  like the Pinnacle of of their wives, too boring for oh
• 39:42
  whatever. You know, what?
• 39:43
  I think about it, by the way. We got new wimpy opening up in
• 39:46
  town, you know, so excited. Be I know we're gonna be down
• 39:49
  there. First thing.
• 39:51
  You know what's interesting though is I find as well.
• 39:54
  No one's really sort of condemned in this scenario.
• 39:58
  I'm and I can empathize it both because I've been that person in
• 40:01
  a relationship who is doing exciting things that went off to
• 40:05
  Colombia. I worked in an orphanage and my
• 40:07
  other office very jealous and I've been that person who's kind
• 40:11
  of at the side whilst my other half.
• 40:13
  Going off and doing exciting things and I'm feeling a bit
• 40:16
  left. So like, tell me about it joke.
• 40:18
  I know that one. It's a really lie with either
• 40:26
  one of them, but I understand over.
• 40:29
  Yeah, yeah, I've eaten in that restaurant.
• 40:31
  By the way, yes, I have. I was happy for doing it.
• 40:36
  I think it might be Pizza Express now.
• 40:38
  Okay, I don't forget balls at this point but yeah, when we
• 40:42
  went to the doctor who experience with, with Jason
• 40:45
  Thompson amongst other people and Steve and lots of other
• 40:47
  people, we had to eat there. You got to do it, haven't you?
• 40:50
  I went to the new, all have stick and chips probably where
• 40:54
  you'll make the joke, if nothing else.
• 40:57
  I went into the little Cafe, des Add Water, you know, where they
• 41:00
  yeah. Hey guys, do you know what?
• 41:05
  What, what? And in case of an emergency, the
• 41:09
  excess gas can be in Hell from their lungs.
• 41:15
  I love this comic timing between the two of them.
• 41:19
  You need good access to get. It's like he's he completely
• 41:22
  knows what's coming and he's so dead pan.
• 41:25
  That it makes it funnier. She's just a larious when she
• 41:30
  does the finger, it's just the comedy sound effect as well.
• 41:35
  That makes that Kristen's face when he's messing it up.
• 41:39
  You know, he's so smug. So first you can only ask you
• 41:43
  what is he really don't? Like about this because you've
• 41:47
  but been praising. It's like I had a so I mean I
• 41:50
  think I know I said off, make the this story is got everything
• 41:55
  that I love about Aunt Edie and the Wee Ones the short and, you
• 42:01
  know, his rating in one episode, you know, I love the way that
• 42:05
  it's It does just stop that plot in it and you know, just let us
• 42:11
  focus on the characters because that's his massive strength is
• 42:14
  character work. It's not plot, its character
• 42:16
  works. All the fact that he's given
• 42:19
  himself you know, 20 25 minutes to really just focus on the
• 42:22
  characters is it's brilliant. It's really Elevate the episode.
• 42:27
  I love that when he's doing that, you pushes us into places.
• 42:31
  We don't want to be that. We don't necessarily like to go.
• 42:34
  I'm so comfortable. Yes.
• 42:36
  I mean, you've talked about the end of end of time, you know,
• 42:39
  and how you know we might not want to see a doctor being that
• 42:42
  sort of selfish and real in against he's he's regeneration
• 42:48
  but it is you know, it's an interesting place to put the
• 42:52
  characters and that's what Russell does.
• 42:53
  He always pushes them in interesting places and we might
• 42:56
  not like it might not be comfortable but it's it's
• 42:58
  interesting and it's it's never safe.
• 43:00
  So that's what I really love about about RTD.
• 43:04
  But the things that I don't like So much about them are also
• 43:08
  present in this episode, and that is the plottin.
• 43:12
  You know, we'll see at the end magic.
• 43:15
  Essentially, the plot is solved by Magic.
• 43:20
  You know, that's that's a real weakness for me because I am a
• 43:23
  very much, a plot driven person. You know, my enjoyment of story
• 43:28
  you're telling me a story. My enjoyment is going to be very
• 43:31
  much based on the plot and how much I can, you know, except
• 43:35
  that it's yeah, it's the end of pyramids of Mars, isn't it?
• 43:38
  It's a magic box from the Tardis that solves everything that
• 43:41
  we've never mentioned before and we will never mention again.
• 43:44
  Exactly, they do mention it again, which makes it slightly.
• 43:47
  Yes. But I do like the It's the most
• 43:50
  because that really does kind of make sense, it's like, oh,
• 43:54
  actually, you know, we have got this time, you know, this the
• 43:58
  radio wave will take time to travel to earth.
• 44:00
  So with death, the thing that's really clever.
• 44:02
  In a really clever way of that means Dever, it's the I know
• 44:06
  that's the time control from the Tardis but what did you do that?
• 44:10
  I must be under the I moved, you know, because everything else
• 44:13
  we've tried what until now but you just started like is filled
• 44:19
  the Big Bang. So you're going to be here
• 44:22
  because I say, you'll be here because this is a storybook
• 44:25
  because I remember you, because it's a fairytale magic, it's a
• 44:29
  storytelling, it's fairy tale story telling, the whole series
• 44:32
  is a fairy tale. And the clever thing about that
• 44:37
  is that Moffat, rewinds us and takes us back through the series
• 44:40
  and shows us exactly where we seeded.
• 44:43
  Those memories, and it's still just because she says, so she
• 44:48
  remembers. It's not because she says, it's
• 44:50
  because she remembers, it's all about memories, but remember and
• 44:53
  she remembers Rory. Remember Amy and, you know,
• 44:58
  bricks is program and that's what think it's all about
• 45:02
  memory. So that's why that one works at
• 45:05
  the end of this. Then the Tardis console opens up
• 45:08
  the fabulous. Energy comes swirling out.
• 45:11
  Patrick, this is size. Fiction.
• 45:14
  It's got fiction in the tile, but where's the science?
• 45:17
  Then what the science is. Sweaty, sweaty Vortex, I need
• 45:24
  gas Shane Augusta. Sorry I got distracted by
• 45:27
  Billie. Piper an old Clark arguing with
• 45:29
  each other. She'd you know what though, did
• 45:32
  you come back to this then regardless of that nonsense with
• 45:35
  the, The Vortex energy is to pick what she says.
• 45:38
  Thank you where she know she's getting a second chance.
• 45:41
  So that. So even if it's dark He puts in
• 45:44
  a very potent coward character might as well, it does it does.
• 45:48
  But I also the thing is, I don't always think he's dialogues the
• 45:52
  best. I think you'll think you're very
• 45:56
  wrong about that. I certainly think in this series
• 45:59
  is some some really clunky dialogue and some really clunky
• 46:01
  Exposition as well, you know, as a scene in Aliens of London
• 46:11
  where the doctor literally turns to us and says as we have just
• 46:14
  seen on the television Rose I've ever been.
• 46:16
  And I think my word if Chris chibnall wrote a scene like that
• 46:22
  The internet would actually explode.
• 46:25
  You know what I was thinking would like to set him on fire.
• 46:27
  He has the ability in his dialogue.
• 46:31
  He writes very real dialogue, very sayable things that people
• 46:35
  were genuinely say, within a doctor who context and that
• 46:38
  ain't easy. Again, sometimes not always
• 46:43
  sometimes struggle with with that element.
• 46:46
  I think I watched a few scenes and I just think this, no, this
• 46:50
  isn't how people Talk. This is, you know, I think that
• 46:53
  it's helped Ali people talk and it's more natural version.
• 46:57
  Mount Hadley people to think people talk, is Steven Moffat
• 47:01
  dialogue. It's overly crafted overly
• 47:03
  witty. Yeah, and I don't know anybody
• 47:07
  anybody at all that. Also River solar power or spot,
• 47:10
  but I know people that talk like rose and like Mickey and like
• 47:13
  jacking, but I would be thankful.
• 47:15
  You don't know those people because those people are out
• 47:16
  there, the the soil. Yeah.
• 47:20
  I mean, So I use it m is high hide with them with light, went
• 47:25
  out to dinner and you were talking about Clara slaying of
• 47:28
  whiskey as the 11th. Most disgusting things that
• 47:31
  dubbed but people do people do, people do talk like that because
• 47:35
  they think they are being clever and, and witty and it's
• 47:39
  hipsters, isn't it? Basically shows a hipster, you
• 47:42
  know? So people do talk like that.
• 47:44
  I think You know, that the scenes that strike is where
• 47:49
  Jackie is talking at the start of rose in.
• 47:52
  It's just It's Exposition, it's not exposition of the plot.
• 47:56
  It is, this is me talking to, you know, learn as much as
• 48:00
  possible about this character and this family Dynamic and
• 48:03
  Martha. Does it exactly the same with
• 48:05
  the start of Smith and Jones? It's Exposition by way of
• 48:09
  characterization, you know? It's just that is a skill to be
• 48:14
  able to deliver that much information about characters
• 48:17
  with such brevity. Mmm.
• 48:21
  Well will agree to disagree. I think is different types that.
• 48:24
  Yeah absolutely. You know, other people be
• 48:27
  listening to this and you know thrown stones at me through
• 48:30
  speakers and whatnot. Some people will be sitting
• 48:32
  there nodding along and you out of the lab.
• 48:35
  Now, July have no Stones thrown at you.
• 48:39
  And here we go, the world. How was sleeping inside shot?
• 48:52
  It's that shot there of from underneath, yeah.
• 48:59
  By using, I put that inside. It's all exploding and you get a
• 49:02
  Longshot Cardiff with like the electricity going for the sky
• 49:05
  just like you did at San Francisco, you know.
• 49:07
  Yeah. And then another plot which is
• 49:10
  basically climaxing in the Tardis.
• 49:12
  Yeah about nonsense and what what was brilliant and it's
• 49:18
  moment that we just missed was the first moment.
• 49:21
  There's the crack of thunder Mickey is busy talking to Rose
• 49:26
  and she's bumped it. She is it gone Because she knows
• 49:29
  something more exciting is happening.
• 49:32
  That is that, that she's got to be there for.
• 49:36
  But even before that, you know, the Thunder, you know Mickey's.
• 49:39
  She talked to another conversation with them in your,
• 49:41
  the yeah. She's distracted by Thunder.
• 49:45
  Thinking oh I mean, how many people would hear thunder and
• 49:48
  actually think I need to get back the Tardis because it's the
• 49:51
  end of the world. You know?
• 49:52
  It's allowed. I Whitney screaming after oh
• 49:55
  sounds fucking needy and I know something about it.
• 49:58
  Yeah. Never been nothing, but that's
• 50:00
  where he is. That's where he is.
• 50:03
  Exactly. And that's where we need.
• 50:05
  I'm walking off at the end and not waiting for her.
• 50:10
  Is it's a big character moment, so it's love.
• 50:13
  But where's where? She's got that massive hole.
• 50:18
  It's great, it's great because it's like, we don't need the
• 50:22
  full costume do, we'll just need a not what before globin.
• 50:26
  It's just brilliant the way. She's just change back.
• 50:28
  And she's he just shows that everything that she's all the
• 50:31
  conversations, he's had, its had no impact whatsoever.
• 50:34
  It's been about manipulating the doctor into getting what she
• 50:38
  wants. She's playing it pure Pantone
• 50:41
  out and she and I, yeah, and that bad.
• 50:43
  That's do that as well. Ivo pushing for both, you know.
• 50:47
  Okay, the episode never answers this question.
• 50:51
  It poses it, but it doesn't answer.
• 50:54
  Would the doctor of done it. What do you have taken her back?
• 50:56
  Watch to get executed. I Think the Ninth Doctor would
• 51:00
  say? Yes.
• 51:01
  Because he's so, and I love that line, that Magpie mind like
• 51:07
  yours doctor. That's brilliant.
• 51:08
  That's absolutely superb. Anyway, that close-up on either
• 51:12
  side, Austin's, face, just absolute Stone.
• 51:14
  Fury is beautiful. I think the Ninth Doctor is so
• 51:19
  Resolute on things that he absolutely would have seen it
• 51:23
  through. I think he would have dealt with
• 51:28
  the consequences of this in a way that other doctors would
• 51:31
  have tricked their way out of it and he get is, it is only
• 51:36
  because Margaret breaks everything here that it it
• 51:42
  changes but I think he'd have been Resolute.
• 51:43
  I think the way he wouldn't look at her earlier on tells you that
• 51:47
  he'd of he'd have seen this through.
• 51:49
  However awkward it would have been he screams at that darling,
• 51:52
  darling. Why don't you just die?
• 51:55
  Die like exactly. He's damaged, he's hurt.
• 51:58
  Okay, so I've got a question for you to then, would you have
• 52:00
  preferred that ended? Would you preferred not to have
• 52:03
  the magic to have, actually, you know, the end of the story?
• 52:07
  Maybe is the just walk into the Tardis, the Tardis dismiss
• 52:10
  dematerializes and we are left to wonder whether the doctors
• 52:12
  actually, taking her back to Mexico cafeterias or not.
• 52:15
  I, I think the ambiguity is better because now we're having
• 52:18
  this conversation, whereas, if it had been made clear or like,
• 52:22
  well, that happened, Not not like you know you could even
• 52:27
  have that ambiguity. You could look you just you know
• 52:29
  the Hub and I've had the discussion, you know boys Tardis
• 52:33
  Tardis to some dematerializes and that said we don't actually
• 52:35
  ever see. I go back, I would've been
• 52:38
  interesting. It would have been.
• 52:40
  Yeah. Yeah, I would have been able to
• 52:42
  keep me. Happy, wouldn't it?
• 52:47
  The shiny gas is coming out now. So I know I like the fact that
• 52:50
  she gets a second chance. I know it's magic.
• 52:53
  I know it's Dolph so much of this stupid show is but I like
• 52:57
  the fans a few looks up here and and as you said just a thank
• 53:00
  you. Yeah.
• 53:02
  And the length of the doctor smile is feeling seems and then
• 53:06
  that really shit with an egg on the Tardis little from stomach.
• 53:13
  The she's got a massive smile on her face.
• 53:15
  She's happy and that the soup bowls on the surface, about
• 53:23
  Rusty day without right. Good dialogue.
• 53:25
  Did you not hear just said, get ready, boys Surf's Up.
• 53:32
  It's a really terrible. The wisdom is bitter.
• 53:35
  Good dialogue. Just like the, you know, didn't
• 53:38
  bondage Lane, you know, that sort of stuff.
• 53:41
  Book also you know the will go up at that scene at the Tardis
• 53:45
  where make it comes in and come out.
• 53:46
  And then the dog stops to kind of explain why the Tardis is a
• 53:50
  Tardis. There's a police box and doesn't
• 53:52
  stick out and whatnot and then we've got your Lane right now
• 53:58
  playing right now, which is like, you know, the the ship's
• 54:02
  telepathic, as you know, Rose. You know, it's it's don't get us
• 54:07
  wrong. I don't think he's a great
• 54:09
  writer worried about Out the or the general public I think this
• 54:13
  is what what this all comes down to is that he's worried that the
• 54:17
  general public are not sci-fi Adventure series Savvy anymore
• 54:22
  and so he's over-explaining and I think by the time we get into
• 54:27
  Series 2, he doesn't need to do that.
• 54:30
  You've got it where where you've got Mickey say, oh tell me more
• 54:34
  about this and this time and what you did on the time this is
• 54:36
  what you did there in really long time on the TARDIS
• 54:41
  Exposition on the time that sequence in World War 3 Narrows
• 54:46
  it down, is one of the most beautiful and done really great.
• 54:50
  Exposition scenes I've ever seen weird.
• 54:53
  I mean it is furiously, fast it delivers everything, it's
• 54:56
  fucking hilarious and it's heartbreaking.
• 54:59
  Hmm I'm sorry I do, we talk about children, Exposition a
• 55:02
  lot. Well, this is it this is it I
• 55:05
  think getting the delivered Exposition that you know people
• 55:10
  people We'll always, you know, it's one of the things that bugs
• 55:13
  me is that how much should move does get slaterys.
• 55:16
  Exposition when I'll start he does.
• 55:19
  But you know, in my opinion RTD quite often is no better, no
• 55:25
  worse, but know better who they are.
• 55:29
  It's all got to tell the story somehow.
• 55:31
  Yeah. Each of the showrunners
• 55:32
  approaches it slightly differently as each of the
• 55:35
  foreigners wants to tell a different story.
• 55:37
  Yeah. Classic Doctor Who had to use
• 55:39
  Exposition all the time because another A fucking budget.
• 55:42
  Yeah. To put the things on the screen
• 55:43
  so they had to tell us stuff that uh, yeah.
• 55:45
  But you never hear anyone going back.
• 55:47
  Slidden problems freeze. Exposition or whatever sticks
• 55:50
  for exposition. It's beautiful.
• 55:55
  I think it's just the part of me that likes to stick up for the
• 55:57
  underdog says leave. You know, if you're gonna sleep
• 56:00
  chip, no for that. You need to be prepared to go
• 56:03
  back and look at everyone else and they're exactly the same.
• 56:07
  You get nice moments like rose, they're just choir and the that
• 56:11
  would be nice thinking about everything that's happened.
• 56:14
  And then suddenly you were in the Big Brother house.
• 56:17
  Oh I'll just did this commentaries.
• 56:21
  Have a weakest link? It's great.
• 56:23
  I love it. Mmm, all the society you've got
• 56:27
  a compact date laser Deluxe. Where were you hiding that
• 56:34
  lovely well boys. Sighs.
• 56:36
  I mean that was a quick out episode and it we're doing these
• 56:39
  quick episodes. Now, have you prepared
• 56:43
  statements for the end of this of your reasons as to why
• 56:46
  Boomtown needs to be watched or obviously?
• 56:50
  Well, so you guys will go side. Fraser Mi three apiece. okay, I
• 56:58
  am going to go for Which one? Okay, I've got, I'm going to go
• 57:06
  for the rehabilitation of Margaret's Levine and thus
• 57:09
  Levine family and Russell having the chance to redress the
• 57:14
  balance. And say no, actually these were
• 57:17
  a great creation. We had a great actress and I'm
• 57:20
  going to use her again and give her material that she deserves
• 57:24
  give her a second chance. Fraser, I am going to say,
• 57:31
  because of the way, the plot stops halfway through the plot
• 57:35
  gets wrapped up halfway through with done.
• 57:37
  And then we have 20 minutes of just pure character arrays
• 57:42
  Nation, character development character work correctly, which
• 57:47
  is just go ahead as well tonight, stopping the floor and
• 57:51
  having character moments, he gets criticized for a lot.
• 57:54
  That's a bold choice, you know. Not many people.
• 57:56
  It would save the plot stop in 10 minutes in.
• 57:58
  Yep. That was me, as, you know,
• 58:03
  everyone else in the world is Marcel, let's say a word.
• 58:06
  I'm going to say more Eagles music this one, because, yes, it
• 58:12
  gets very understated and it's still very beautiful.
• 58:16
  But during the comedy sequences, especially that bit where
• 58:18
  they're chasing marks for me, that's a really memorable, bit
• 58:21
  of pace in music. So I think at this point in the
• 58:24
  season, he's kind of knocking out one really good soundtrack
• 58:28
  after another Okay, my second one will be Rose and Mickey I
• 58:35
  think Russell not shying away from showing Rose to be a
• 58:42
  selfish bitch I think that's really important and really good
• 58:47
  and although I find her with the tenth doctor quite insufferable
• 58:53
  at times as anyone who has heard the impossible, Satan pit
• 58:58
  planets commentary. Which I heard it yet is not an
• 59:01
  out, but here it's absolutely superb.
• 59:08
  And Billie Piper, I don't think is ever better in Doctor Who
• 59:11
  than she is in Boomtown. I think she's absolutely
• 59:14
  brilliant here. She looks magnificent.
• 59:18
  She's she's complained the comedy.
• 59:20
  She can play the easy banter between the Tardis crew.
• 59:26
  And she can play those scenes with Mickey, where she I can be
• 59:30
  flirty and then suddenly furious with him and then trying to be
• 59:34
  played, I think it's a magnificent performance and for
• 59:38
  someone that we doubted in 2004 when we said what's Russell
• 59:43
  doing she's just a failed pop star, blah blah, blah.
• 59:47
  Absolutely, the right choice. His casting was utterly superb.
• 59:53
  yeah, I just want to add that and just say, you know, We think
• 59:59
  Rose is insufferable. You know, we think this Tardis
• 1:00:02
  team is insufferable, but that's because the actors are making
• 1:00:06
  us. Absolutely.
• 1:00:08
  You know, it's skill insufferable.
• 1:00:10
  They are, you know, it's a classic, you know.
• 1:00:15
  You know, where you have a, what Colleen ahead, Lee from Game of
• 1:00:18
  Thrones, when no one comes and gets her, our signature, it at a
• 1:00:22
  convention because everyone hates that character.
• 1:00:25
  It's like, well signature. Um, what up, bitch, I love Shan
• 1:00:30
  Shan, you know, it's Testament to the actors who are who are
• 1:00:37
  making us dislike them in, that way, grip forms.
• 1:00:42
  And yeah, we all doubt ability paper and We were all proved
• 1:00:46
  wrong. Were, is it or not?
• 1:00:48
  An addendum? So sighs.
• 1:00:49
  So, no bushels. So my next thing, which I really
• 1:00:53
  love about this episode is the climbing out the window line.
• 1:01:03
  The whole scene, you know, where he's just stood at the desk.
• 1:01:06
  Just tell her the doctors here. He's just got that.
• 1:01:09
  Look on his face in, you know, you goes and he comes out.
• 1:01:14
  Absolutely drives are stopping at the teacup.
• 1:01:17
  Yeah, just hit through the door, tells you everything it and then
• 1:01:21
  release. It's just, he comes out and, and
• 1:01:24
  Chris Harrison just giving him and no one look and I know we're
• 1:01:26
  not in, you're just waiting and you're waiting anyway.
• 1:01:28
  And he just drops his head and Just climb out the window is in
• 1:01:31
  chair. Yes she is.
• 1:01:33
  It's the reply as well. It just it's just brilliant.
• 1:01:35
  I love it, love it. I just do, the comedy in.
• 1:01:38
  This is a lie. I should ask her to be mine, so
• 1:01:40
  it's all one extra to you or it's just, I think the comedy is
• 1:01:45
  comedy can really go one or two ways and in Doctor Who it could
• 1:01:49
  go over a cliff, thought it. Like, if, if they get it wrong,
• 1:01:52
  it can be a bit agonizing. And I think we vote we all
• 1:01:55
  talked about that in the past, man, that whole sequence of her
• 1:01:59
  running away. The, the lines about the icy
• 1:02:03
  patch and the various comedy. The restaurant where she's
• 1:02:07
  trying to murder him. It's genuinely very funny.
• 1:02:11
  Although, he's like, belly laugh, funny.
• 1:02:12
  But it is, it hits the mark, and I think Rusty.
• 1:02:17
  Davis does comedy more deadly than any of the other
• 1:02:23
  showrunners. Like nothing makes me laugh like
• 1:02:27
  mad. Mad cat moments, like, I'm going
• 1:02:29
  to get killed I'd buy a Christmas tree and things like
• 1:02:32
  that. I mean, that just makes me warm
• 1:02:34
  rays are conducting. See you gnashing your teeth and
• 1:02:37
  disagree with me but it's too smug for me.
• 1:02:39
  Alright, I just, I lost my comedy so I back to you, okay.
• 1:02:46
  I was going to choose the teleport scene, but that's gone
• 1:02:49
  now. So, I'm going to say this is
• 1:02:52
  Doctor whose Love Letter to Cardiff & Cardiff Cardiff the
• 1:02:58
  hero of the show. This point and it's like a big
• 1:03:02
  thank you to the to the city for taking Doctor Who in and the
• 1:03:06
  Tardis just looked so right in Cardiff Bay next to the
• 1:03:10
  Torchwood Fountain and Joe ahearne uses it beautifully.
• 1:03:14
  He makes the city look fantastic.
• 1:03:16
  We're only seeing a really limited part of it but he does
• 1:03:21
  his best with what he's got. He shows that off to it's it's
• 1:03:25
  very very best and there's a reason why we all loved those
• 1:03:30
  publicity shots that we saw early on of the TARDIS next to
• 1:03:33
  the Fountain because it's a beautiful location.
• 1:03:37
  But you know what happens when when you do that, love letter to
• 1:03:41
  the extremes, you get those agonizing sequences of Captain
• 1:03:44
  Jack, Stanley on that building with cameras?
• 1:03:46
  Yes. Zooming around much.
• 1:03:48
  You don't need to do it like that.
• 1:03:50
  There's a skills again that right as well.
• 1:03:52
  Yes. Yeah absolutely.
• 1:03:53
  Does it chip? Nope, that's Rusty.
• 1:04:00
  The showrunner for Torchwood. Wasn't, he was he?
• 1:04:04
  Yeah, we've Russell overseeing it as executive producer, but
• 1:04:08
  Chris chibnall was the first two seasons.
• 1:04:10
  Yeah, I'm under so much went wrong.
• 1:04:13
  I'm so sorry Raisa - stolen. All the good things I was going
• 1:04:18
  to talk about em. Let's think so, what we talked
• 1:04:22
  about so far we've said, Margaret.
• 1:04:25
  I had some cuts it. Did we see a net bad land at the
• 1:04:28
  embassy Market? This of the begin.
• 1:04:29
  He said, Marcus Garvey threats on my life is here and at
• 1:04:33
  Birdland, does it take a really good performance?
• 1:04:35
  Think it will? You just answer what you can?
• 1:04:37
  Well, I could you happy and what else of all covered with covered
• 1:04:41
  Cardiff? We've covered the musical about
• 1:04:44
  the comedy. In that specific scene.
• 1:04:48
  You said the acting of Billie Piper, Yep.
• 1:04:53
  And you said the character work I said the the morality clear
• 1:05:00
  didn't. That's all.
• 1:05:00
  Yeah. And I said, am I allowed to say
• 1:05:04
  then how it pushes pushes us to consider the doctors morality?
• 1:05:10
  Yeah, absolutely. Okay, I'm not going to say that
• 1:05:12
  then what I'm going to say it is a Mickey's Arc because I think
• 1:05:17
  that's you know, it is like the B, the B plot really.
• 1:05:23
  You know, when we get to that bit where the clock is stopped,
• 1:05:26
  you know, we're doing character plots for not doing plot plot to
• 1:05:28
  build character plots, and that's, that's really the
• 1:05:31
  airport. Is the doctors moronically, the
• 1:05:33
  B plot is Mickey in Mickey's Arc.
• 1:05:35
  I think, and think this is episode is so vital for, you
• 1:05:39
  know, getting Mickey to a place where you serve as that link
• 1:05:44
  with rules. So we're, you know, when she
• 1:05:46
  comes back and she's, you know, telling them that your life with
• 1:05:50
  him is just boring now, now she's been Doctor in two
• 1:05:53
  episodes of time that, you know, you can take that, you can take
• 1:05:56
  that as a, as a Porsche. When, you know, she comes flying
• 1:06:01
  back in Christmas Invasion. That he's actually happy to see
• 1:06:03
  if I were a good reason, you know, when he's able to, then
• 1:06:07
  bring her back into school, in all of this stuff that happens
• 1:06:10
  to Mickey further down the line which is really more positive
• 1:06:13
  and you know, he's probably in a better way than than has been
• 1:06:16
  previously is dependent on this point.
• 1:06:19
  This episode to him being in that position where he can You
• 1:06:22
  know, if you said needed your, I think it's realization.
• 1:06:25
  I think he is literally just this is the point where he
• 1:06:28
  breaks and he goes, no, it's always going to be the doctor.
• 1:06:30
  Never going to be me. So done, that.
• 1:06:33
  Interesting me. He says it's always going to be
• 1:06:35
  the doctor. I'm still always going to
• 1:06:37
  support you. Mmm.
• 1:06:40
  So I think he is needed is but I think he hits that realization
• 1:06:43
  probably when he walks away, I was right.
• 1:06:45
  This is where we're at, you know.
• 1:06:48
  You will use that. They're about the carrot to
• 1:06:50
  work. I don't think it's bad wolf that
• 1:06:53
  glues his first serious together.
• 1:06:56
  I think it's the character arcs Jackie Nikki Rose.
• 1:06:59
  That's what would his serious one?
• 1:07:01
  It's the characters that they used in the Christmas Invasion
• 1:07:05
  to get us from the first areas to the second series and over
• 1:07:08
  that regenerate. So yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:12
  I think that what you need to look at is A good man goes to
• 1:07:16
  war. Do we have to yes in a good man?
• 1:07:20
  Goes to war. The doctor needs to go and
• 1:07:23
  rescue Amy and her child so he puts together a team.
• 1:07:28
  You know? His team is vastra.
• 1:07:32
  Jenny Strax dorium is it? Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  Yeah. And you know, he collects these
• 1:07:40
  together like some sort of like Mission Impossible.
• 1:07:42
  Tape thing puts his team together and goes and Rescue.
• 1:07:44
  Use and hear me how many of those characters ever seen
• 1:07:49
  before, not, not Christmas Invasion.
• 1:07:53
  It's all characters we've seen before.
• 1:07:55
  You know, if RTD was to do a similar sort of story, the team
• 1:08:00
  would be Mickey. In fact, it is it's the
• 1:08:03
  instrument is when we do when we get to the stolen Earth do here
• 1:08:07
  yes. All of those characters that
• 1:08:09
  we've come to know know exactly what their function and who they
• 1:08:13
  are. Yep.
• 1:08:15
  And it's far more enjoyable because of that it's interested
• 1:08:18
  in richer and more rewarding, because we already know these
• 1:08:21
  characters and that's, that's where, you know, we end up with
• 1:08:24
  series 1, then it seems one, is because we've got the characters
• 1:08:27
  that we already know. I'm gonna say is my last thing
• 1:08:36
  then Russell's he Davis, because I think it was a very Savvy
• 1:08:42
  decision before after this massive two-part, spectacular
• 1:08:47
  just had before the huge climax to take a breath and I don't
• 1:08:55
  think that's the predictable. Way to go to lead into the To
• 1:08:59
  part from my Utopia. Does it for a bit and then the
• 1:09:02
  second half and Utopia, just goes mental, doesn't it?
• 1:09:05
  Whereas this is a gentle peace throughout and I love the fact.
• 1:09:10
  I just love the fact that in that script book, the first
• 1:09:13
  season that he has the nerve to say that when the winds going in
• 1:09:17
  the right direction, boomtowns, his favorite episode of series
• 1:09:20
  1, and so, he should be. Yeah, I think it's my favorite
• 1:09:25
  episode of series one after his, my favorite.
• 1:09:28
  I wouldn't see it. I've loved it since it was on in
• 1:09:31
  2005, I absolutely adore this episode.
• 1:09:35
  I would say this here. My it's my favorite.
• 1:09:37
  It's one that I have come back to love and you know, it took
• 1:09:40
  like, let's see. A bit of getting used to, you
• 1:09:43
  know, what the series looks like now.
• 1:09:44
  But then it's certainly, you know, one that I've come back
• 1:09:46
  and say it's my favorite and it sets the tone as well, doesn't
• 1:09:51
  it? Because it's no series one's all
• 1:09:52
  about setting the template and setting the standard, you know.
• 1:09:55
  So we'll see this type of thing attempted in all the other see
• 1:09:59
  these, you know, next series will have fear her which doesn't
• 1:10:02
  quite land, you know, Utopia. Like I say it is a bit, it's a
• 1:10:06
  bit different but then you have a bit Nate.
• 1:10:09
  And in turn left which other sort of like it was specifically
• 1:10:12
  midnight is the is the pause between the two partners in the
• 1:10:17
  end and isn't enough to that really really learns what our
• 1:10:20
  pores. I yeah.
• 1:10:22
  Mmm Li Wei well boys, what y'all think we did great Justice for
• 1:10:27
  bonetown there? You know, that's a lot of
• 1:10:29
  reasons. I mean, it's well, you always
• 1:10:32
  get a lot of reasons from us because we have to get free each
• 1:10:35
  so high. Nobody sharp, that's why
• 1:10:38
  honestly. Well, So true.
• 1:10:40
  Okay, so we're gonna dock out the episode, but just say, I'm
• 1:10:45
  looking forward to incredible voyages, going ahead, Fraser,
• 1:10:49
  you and I are heading to the planet Dole kiss again.
• 1:10:55
  I plan it. You love to visit frequently on
• 1:10:58
  Kylie's. Amazing Adventures.
• 1:10:59
  Yeah, Dole kiss in the commentary.
• 1:11:08
  Terrible. Ember, that is gonna pack with
• 1:11:10
  beach balls. Steer, the Tardis, have some
• 1:11:13
  fun, sigh you and I are heading to maneuver.
• 1:11:18
  We are in the Samara and empty the Samara and Empire to face
• 1:11:25
  Martin clunes in drag. Yeah.
• 1:11:28
  Oh God, I'd say yeah. And the most terrifying Doctor,
• 1:11:31
  Who story of my childhood you would indulge me.
• 1:11:37
  We may pass. Hello, trip to the moon.
• 1:11:40
  Variety map, a commentary. We've promised many times,
• 1:11:45
  Newcastle sending now Eastbourne receiving.
• 1:11:49
  Now, I'm in three complete with the marvelous Gia.
• 1:11:55
  Kelly. She great.
• 1:11:57
  Yeah, and all season was sort of look, like, I'm doing that one.
• 1:12:02
  It's because we are having to build the rocket to get to the
• 1:12:04
  moon in our backyard. Oh, I just happen to have one
• 1:12:07
  hand yet, you know. Elder at his name, right?
• 1:12:13
  He must live guys. Thank you very much as ever.
• 1:12:19
  I believe. We are approaching the point now
• 1:12:21
  where we have our own podcast with the amount we visually and
• 1:12:25
  together say until next time, goodbye.