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Get Powerfully Reconnected this Holiday Season with Carlos Whittaker · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast with Amy Wicks, your wholehearted life and business coach.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: You should know this podcast will inspire you to grow in self-awareness, be passionate about your faith, and get clear on your calling.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: If you are new here, then welcome to the community of multi-passionate women who love to go deep on topics like faith, Enneagram, relationships, leadership, and community.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: This conversation might provide the step you need to make the change you desire.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: So let's get started.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: As I am slowly inviting you to ease into the holiday season, I am so excited to be able to share this powerful conversation with Carlos Whitaker.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: It was a real honor to have him back on the podcast.
0:57
SPEAKER_00: I spent a little time reflecting on that moment when back in 2018, which was within the first year of the podcast, that I got a big name like Carlos Whitaker on the podcast.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who are not in the podcast world, it's okay that it feels very insignificant or what does it mean to have a big name?
1:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, for me back then, all those years ago, starting the podcast and feeling like it was a little itty bitty, and in a lot of ways it still is.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: But to get Carlos Whitaker as a guest was such a fun experience.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: And it was a real honor and a treat.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I loved that conversation back then, and I still deeply appreciate it.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: But I was excited to reconnect and hear all about his most recent book and how he has lived out this message that he wrote and shared with all of us.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: So his new book is called Reconnected How Seven Screen Free Weeks with Monks and Amish Farmers helped him recover the lost art of being human.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: It is a fantastic book.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: And I highly encourage you to go ahead and get it, even as you kick off this holiday season.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: I think it'll help realign your heart and your mind and give you a fresh perspective on how you want to engage.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Or if you want to put it on your wish list for maybe a gift this holiday, it'll be a perfect way to kick off some of those ambitions and maybe new habits that you want to form in 2025.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: This conversation was awesome.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: And I love that Carlos's personality was willing to just go with the flow in conversation.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: So I sent him conversation topics ahead of time, but he didn't even look at it, which was so great because it just flowed really easily.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And he's kind of a pro in this.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: So uh he had fun along with me.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: But we're talking about his book that also became a documentary.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: He's gonna share a little bit more of how you can learn about how you watch this documentary.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen it yet.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: So I'm very curious when it will be made public for the rest of us to watch.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: But there's a lot of big ideas and stories that he shares, but there's also practical tips that he shares along the way that I'm excited to implement and I'm excited for you to try out as well, especially during this typically overloaded holiday season.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: So I know as someone who is so passionate about doing things with intentionality and really well in your home, you're going to so appreciate all of the inspiration that springs forth from listening in on this conversation.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, here is my conversation with Carlos Whitaker.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if you remember, but I think it was 2018 that we had a conversation about Kill the Spider.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: That's that's crazy.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: That is that is a that's a minute ago.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: It was a minute ago.
3:51
SPEAKER_00: It was a lifetime ago.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: Literally a lifetime.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I um was doing a conversation with Lisa Joe Baker recently.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: And it had been about the same amount of time for us since we had talked.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: And it was just this like, wow, that was before 2020.
4:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: And here we are at the end of 2024.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Like time.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Not to be 2025.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't slow down, that's for sure.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: It has only, yeah, sped up.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: And I I know that we similarly having kids who are growing up faster than we can blink, and life is changing.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: It just makes that the intention with the speed.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: It does.
4:32
SPEAKER_02: It really does, which is why we needed to stop looking at our phones so we can slow it down, right?
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, in fact, I wanted to ask you this.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I was telling my husband this morning, I was like, Yeah, pray for me.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm getting to talk to Carlos Whitaker again for podcasts.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: I always have him pray for my interviews and my clients and stuff like that.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Oh, cool.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: What book did he come out with?
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't told him about it yet.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: And I mentioned, I was like, Yeah, he wrote this book.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: And part of it was he spent seven weeks with the Amish totally disconnected.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: He's like, What?
5:06
SPEAKER_00: That's like my dream come true.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: I laughed at him because I thought, oh, I didn't one, I didn't know this about you.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: And we've been married for 20 years.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: But two, that is not my idea of an ideal seven weeks.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: And then three, I was like, Well, I wonder if Carlos had ever wanted to.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Is like this something on your bucket list that we really wanted to do?
5:26
SPEAKER_02: No, it was my wife's bucket list.
5:28
SPEAKER_02: It was like I basically took her dream and lived it.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: No way.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
5:33
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: Tell me more about that.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, my wife, she's always been anti-screen.
5:39
SPEAKER_02: She was the last one to get a flip phone, the last one to get a smartphone.
5:42
SPEAKER_02: She never has her phone on her.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: We can't ever get a hold of her.
5:46
SPEAKER_02: She just isn't on them and she doesn't watch TV.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And so it's just how she's built.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: And she'd read, especially our maybe first 10 years of marriage, she'd read all these like Amish love novels almost.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: Like they, I just remember they're stacked by the side of the city.
6:00
SPEAKER_00: It's a thing.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that's a whole thing, you know.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: And then when we moved to Tennessee, we found some Amish in Ethridge Tempen, Tennessee, near us that we would go and visit when the kids were little, and we became kind of friends with some of them.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: And then they, you know, we'd buy furniture from them, the whole thing.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: And so it just is something my wife was always fascinated with.
6:18
SPEAKER_02: I did split my time between a Benedictine monastery and an Amish farm.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: So half the time I was with monks, half the time I was with the Amish.
6:25
SPEAKER_02: And both of those would have been, you know, things my wife would have loved to do.
6:30
SPEAKER_02: If we if we could right now in this moment sell everything, move to a farm, homestead, never look at a screen again, and just kind of live life like that, she would be 100% down.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: And I probably would have been zero percent down.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And now that I've done it, gosh, I I mean, I maybe 25% of me would miss what what I'm doing right now.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: 75% of me is like, that's actually what we were created to be like.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: It just was it brought, you know, this experiment brought me back to I think who we were created to be.
7:02
SPEAKER_02: And uh, these screens have definitely jacked that up for all of us, myself included.
7:08
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, um, yeah.
7:09
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, she she definitely would love to uh to go and experience what I did.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I think it's pretty profound that you would give a 75% yes to that way of living.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: It touches on the impact that this experiment, if you will, had on you.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: And I there's so much here.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: And I of course I'm gonna be quick to say, please, my friends, you want to get this book, whether you put it on your list for the holiday season or whatever, but there's so much here.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think what's interesting is that you approach this conversation in a new way.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Was that strategic?
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Was that just tell me a little bit more about the behind the scenes choice?
7:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, I I think it it wasn't strategic to start with.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, but every every book I've read about screen time and phones and what it's doing to our mental health, it's all been like doomed.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: It's like we gotta stop.
8:07
SPEAKER_02: And oh my gosh.
8:08
SPEAKER_02: And also, they've all been written by people that are maybe looking at data or statistics.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, where's the person that's done it?
8:18
SPEAKER_02: Like I just was like, I want to talk to the person that was on their phone as much as me and then wasn't on their phone as much as me.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to talk to them.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: And I just kept looking and looking, and I couldn't find that person, Amy.
8:30
unknown: Right.
8:30
SPEAKER_02: I was like, well, maybe that's just gonna be me.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I am the guinea pig.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'm I'm the one.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: And so you talk about it being different than you know, maybe even what what people ex expect when they pick up a book about somebody that hasn't looked at a phone.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: And what initially started off as an experiment about a man that was on his phone seven and a half hours a day and did not look at a single screen for seven and a half weeks.
8:56
SPEAKER_02: And I got my brain scanned by a neuroscientist before and I got my brain scanned after.
9:00
SPEAKER_02: So I had a little bit of data for all the people that need that in there.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Um I thought, oh, this is gonna be another book about phones.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be, you know, that's what I thought.
9:10
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna be like, this is just gonna be how horrible it is for the next, you know, seven and a half weeks.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: And what quickly happened is it ended up not being an experiment about a phone at all.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: It was an experiment about a phone for about three days out of those seven and a half weeks.
9:25
SPEAKER_02: The rest of the time, it was an experiment about gosh, me and community and all of the beautiful things on the other side of the screen that we've forgotten how to do.
9:35
SPEAKER_02: And so that's what I'm leading people towards is not like, hey, here's 15 rules on how to not look at your phone.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: No, instead, it's like, here's 15 things that I realize we've forgotten how to do, and I started doing them again, and I fell back in love with them.
9:49
SPEAKER_02: And now I don't want to do anything else but these things.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: So my screen time is just, I mean, it's I think last week I was at three and a half hours a day.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: And let's go, you know, and I was like, I did not implement any rules in my life.
10:01
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't like 7 p.m.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: phone goes away.
10:04
SPEAKER_02: Here's the phone box that it goes, like, no, it I just fell back in love with living on the other side of it.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: And when you do that, uh your screen time just goes away.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: I feel like you've painted a picture of what could be, what life could look like again if you want to reclaim what has been lost.
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering about the time frame, the seven and a half weeks.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it it, you know, like that's an unusual time frame.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Why that?
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Did it just happen if that's what worked?
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Because you were in between things.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_02: It definitely wasn't like, you know, well, okay, so initially it was gonna be two weeks.
10:38
unknown: Okay.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I was going to live with Monks for a week and I was gonna live with the Amish for a week.
10:43
SPEAKER_02: And I was not gonna look at any screens, no iPhone, no Apple Watch, no laptop, iPad, TVs, nothing.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: And when I got a hold of Dr.
10:50
SPEAKER_02: Daniel Layman, who's a neuroscientist, and he agreed to scan my brain before and after, he told me, he's like, I just don't think you're gonna see a lot of change in two weeks.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, really?
11:00
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Yeah, that's like vacation.
11:02
SPEAKER_02: Like you're gonna have to really, and I was like, Oh gosh.
11:05
SPEAKER_02: So then the more I talked to Heather about it and the more I prayed about it, I just was like, maybe it's supposed to be two months.
11:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, but then I was like, oh, actually six weeks.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: So then it became six weeks.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna do two weeks with the monks, two weeks with the Amish, and then two weeks at home in Nashville with my family with no screens.
11:23
SPEAKER_02: Because I was like, well, anybody can do this with monks and the Amish.
11:25
SPEAKER_02: Like, how am I gonna make sure that people understand how we can do this when we're in our real lives?
11:29
SPEAKER_02: And so six weeks was the goal, but then I got to six, and let me just tell you like it was there was nothing I wanted to do less than turn my phone back on.
11:39
SPEAKER_02: Like I just so it ended up, I ended up adding an extra week and a half until I like knew I had to turn it on because I have to pay the bills.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I've got it important.
11:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so it just ended up being seven and a half weeks.
11:52
SPEAKER_02: That's just kind of like what ended up being that long.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: But I am grateful that I did live for 14 days with the monks and 14 days with Yamash, because I feel like I got fully immersed and got to really experience all of their subcultures and the beauty of what it is they do and why it is that they do what they do.
12:09
SPEAKER_02: And and I was able to really, you know, when you read the book, I think all of the lessons, because all the chapter titles are, you know, almost like practices that I relearned how to do, like wondering, right?
12:20
SPEAKER_02: Like that's something we don't do anymore.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: No.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: So there's a chapter called Wondering.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: There's a chapter called Noticing, Solitude, Getting Lost.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh, all of the things that we don't do anymore because of these screens, I was I had to do every day.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: And I'm grateful for the time that I was able to spend with them.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Ah, okay.
12:36
SPEAKER_00: So maybe it would be hard to pick, maybe be easy if you had to choose monks or Amish.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Besides Heather's opinion.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh where are you thinking?
12:48
SPEAKER_02: Gosh, well, I I I think I'd have to, I'd have to go Amish just because I love being married and and, you know, I love, I love talking.
12:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, I love, you know, all of the things that I couldn't do when I was with the monks.
12:59
SPEAKER_02: Although I loved, you know, the monks was like, and it was the first two weeks of the experiment.
13:04
SPEAKER_02: So I went from like a thousand miles an hour to three miles an hour.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And it was shock and awe on my soul.
13:10
SPEAKER_02: You know, the Benedictine practice is beautiful.
13:13
SPEAKER_02: And but I basically was silent 23 hours a day.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: And to go from what I do for a living to being silent 23 hours a day was a shock, right?
13:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh, but I also think it was the right move to go there first.
13:26
SPEAKER_02: Because I think if I would have gone to the Amish first and then ended with the solitude stuff, it would have been too much.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, the the monks, it was glorious, but it was uh a little too silent for me.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: But I did appreciate the pace and the inner working that happened in me.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Whereas I feel like the Amish, it was more of the outer working on the outside of me, the things that I was learning about community and the table and all of these actionable things that I can do.
13:50
SPEAKER_02: So I yeah, I definitely think I I could I live with the Amish.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I mean, I'm we're up there all the time, we're almost Amish.
13:56
SPEAKER_02: Like like Heather, we become such good friends with Willis and Kathy.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's so great.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: Like I just had a documentary come out about this whole thing because I took a little Sony camera with me on the whole experiment so that I could record myself.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: And so we turned it into a documentary, and Willis and Kathy, who are the Amish family that I stayed with, were like, hey, we're going over to Krista's house tonight.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: It's their Mennonite daughter.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: Can you send her the link to the movie so we can watch it?
14:21
SPEAKER_02: So I was like, That's fantastic.
14:22
SPEAKER_02: This is my kind of Amish.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is so good.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: What a great quick detox, though.
14:30
SPEAKER_00: I know that I was listening to a conversation between John Eldridge and Annie of Downs, who love both.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: And they were talking about, because it was the beginning of summer, so maybe May, and talking about vacation and soul care in the summer.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: And uh John Eldridge was talking about how long it takes for us to get to that place where our soul is truly at rest.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: He spent a really long amount of time, maybe even like two weeks.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't even have a two-week vacation.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: What does it look like to get there quickly?
15:02
SPEAKER_00: And I think how beautiful this opportunity, very serendipitous, ordained, right?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: That you could just hard stop and immerse yourself in a culture that was radical, really.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
15:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I actually couldn't even do it now.
15:17
SPEAKER_02: Like if I tried, I couldn't, with just my life and where it's at, and with my parents living across the street and all the things like I it was very serendipitous.
15:24
SPEAKER_02: It was a a crack.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: It was, I just saw a little crack in time where I was like, babe, do you think I can do this right now?
15:29
SPEAKER_02: She's like, You well, you can't do it in a year, you couldn't have done it last year, do it right now.
15:34
SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, you know, it was just so perfect to be able to do it so that other people don't have to.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: So then, and so that's the thing is I'm like, you know, nobody has two weeks where where they can just, you know, I did seven.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: Nobody has rarely anybody even has seven days anymore where they could do something like this.
15:52
SPEAKER_02: And so what I did is I tried to pull out all of the things that we can just start trying to do daily that can slowly but surely begin to deliver us.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, John, I think John Eldridge's book is called Get Your Life Back, maybe or something like that.
16:06
SPEAKER_02: But slowly but surely by implementing these things of wondering, noticing, savoring, um, we can begin to get our life back a little bit at a time.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: And I think what I'm finding from people that are DMing me or emailing me as they finish the book, and as they've sat with the book for maybe now two months now, where they're like, Carlos, like my it's mind-blowing.
16:28
SPEAKER_02: Your chapter on beholding.
16:30
SPEAKER_02: Like I every single day, I'm just like, what am I gonna behold?
16:32
SPEAKER_02: What am I?
16:33
SPEAKER_02: And so, like, they're implementing these things without putting in strict rules with their screens, and they're finding more time.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Now, the ultimate goal, I think, for somebody that reads this book, I would love for everybody by the end of six months to be able to have one straight 24-hour period a week.
16:53
SPEAKER_02: So I don't care what that 24 hour period, I don't care if that's a Wednesday from 6 a.m.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: to Thursday at 6, one 24-hour period where you do not look at a single screen.
17:02
SPEAKER_02: And that's a six-month goal.
17:04
SPEAKER_02: So at the beginning, I tell people, one hour.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I want you to take your phone, I want you to go put it in the mailbox, and I want you to walk back away from it.
17:11
SPEAKER_02: And you're not gonna have your phone on your body for an hour.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: And then guess what?
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Next week we're gonna do two hours.
17:16
SPEAKER_02: Then we're gonna do three, and we're just gonna keep adding it.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: And what has happened is I've noticed that people are like, Carlos, I didn't look at my phone for 48 hours, like two whole the entire weekend, and my kids roll with me.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: You know, they had to do some things in order to make that happen, but they were like, we were like, we're not gonna look at a phone for so we did it as a family, and I just think that people are feeling the breath of like it feels like 1972 again.
17:41
SPEAKER_02: Like this is how we're supposed to be.
17:42
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, it's been fun to help people with it.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, uh so many things here.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I'd love to go back to is what you talked about, the things that you learned along the way and how you titled the chapters, because I in our community, we have a monthly mini retreat, we call it, and we engage in a lot of the contemplative practices, like Diodivina, um, physiodivina, different rhythms that we're just inviting people to.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And part of this process, and like your book and what you're talking about here is learning to change our tastes and our desires.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's similar to changing your diet that at first kale may not taste real great.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And you you find all the ways to hide it in things and you pair it with other really delicious things and reward afterwards you have your chocolate because you have your kale.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: But over time, your tastes adjust.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: So that that's my mindset with some of these.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Would you talk about the person who's maybe seeing some of these like wonder and savor and things that I deem as spiritual practices that some people say, oh, that's just personality.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm just not a thinker.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm just not a wonder.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: I'm not curious, I'm pragmatic, I want concrete facts, things like that.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Could you wrestle that out a little bit with us?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Where is it a spiritual discipline and maturity or is it just a personality thing?
19:15
SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, I think it's a human thing.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: It's every single human on planet Earth until the invention of the internet had to wonder every day.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: So, so this is actually something that is like uniquely human.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: Like we weren't created to know everything that we know at the moment that we want to know it.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: And so, so if if you just think about being human, it's like, okay, you may love facts, you may love concrete things, you may love data.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: That's great, you can get that, but why don't you take your time getting to it?
19:46
SPEAKER_02: Why don't you wonder your way to some of this data, to some of this concrete?
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Because you know, now uh I mean, when I was with the with the monks and I wondered something, I never forget, reaching into my phone to pull out Google, right?
19:57
SPEAKER_02: The wonder killer.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my gosh, like I have a question about the monks that I can't ask them because it's grand silence.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: I think it was grand silence, so they they don't speak from like 6 p.m.
20:07
SPEAKER_02: to 7 a.m.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: or something.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: So I had a question and I ran down to ask them a question.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh no, it was it was a meteor shower.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: I think I think it was a meteor shower.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my gosh, I know there's a meteor shower happening tonight.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: I heard someone talking about at lunch.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: I need to go run and ask a monk so they can look it up on a computer so I can find out.
20:22
SPEAKER_02: Well, I couldn't because they they couldn't talk.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my gosh, well, I guess I just wonder if it's gonna happen.
20:29
SPEAKER_02: I guess I'm just gonna stay up and see.
20:31
SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, like I stayed up to like 11 and that's a one star come flying by.
20:35
SPEAKER_02: And then and the the act of wondering led to anticipation, which led to me being able to savor this experience of this meteor shower like I never had before.
20:44
SPEAKER_02: Because I, if I would have known it started at 11:08, because I looked, I Googled and I didn't wonder, then I would have not been able to anticipate and to sit there and hope and look.
20:54
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just telling you, these uniquely human things, I gosh, we've gotten so everything is just so efficient.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's the word.
21:07
SPEAKER_02: We've gotten so efficient, and I just don't think that, you know, I I think that efficiency is good, but I think a lot of times it's it's not.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, for the person that's like, gosh, I just love to know, you know, well, I I've got a friend that loves to know what's happening in the news, right?
21:22
SPEAKER_02: And they they are news junkies.
21:24
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I just ask him, so how's that working for you?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, how does knowing all of this how's that working on your soul?
21:30
SPEAKER_02: It's actually not not doing too great.
21:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so maybe it is good to know what you know things that are happening around the world.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: So something I did, because I'm a news junkie too, is for anyone listening that again, this is something I don't believe we were even created to know as much as we know.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure not.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: So I subscribed to the newspaper here, the Tennessean in Nashville.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: And I deleted the news apps off my phone.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: And I unsubscribed from the news Instagram accounts and Twitter accounts.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: And now I wake up in the morning and I walk outside and I grab the paper just like it's like again 1982.
22:04
SPEAKER_02: I'm like my dad with my robe, and I don't have a robe, but and I pick a newspaper, I got my cup of coffee, and I sit and I read the news.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: And it takes me about 15 minutes to get through it.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: And I I learn everything I need to know that's happening on planet Earth.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: And I and then if anything help else happens on planet earth that I need to know about, I'll find out tomorrow morning.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: And so like these tiny little things that I've done have really made me feel a lot more human.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, the subtitle is How Seven Screen Free Weeks with Monks and Amish Farmers helped me recover the lost art of being human.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: And I just think that these screens have made us a lot less human.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: They're not going to go away.
22:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm still on my phone, you know, three hours a day.
22:43
SPEAKER_02: But for anyone that's worried, that like I just, I, I get this is just not my personality.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: I was like, well, maybe you've based your personality on something that isn't human.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: You've based your personality on knowledge, on content consumption, on all these things.
22:57
SPEAKER_02: But you know, I I do, I look at my chapter titles, Godspeed, three miles an hour, wonder, uh, perspective, intuition.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, gosh, we don't trust our gut over Google anymore.
23:09
SPEAKER_02: You know, like like it is all of these things that I had to do for two months.
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'm like, oh man, I'm back to that again.
23:15
SPEAKER_02: Those have been the things that have kept me um off my screen because I've just fallen back in love with all of those.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that's um a powerful statement that is worth exploring and exercising that muscle for the sake of efficiency.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: We have grown atrophied in the exercise of exploration and waiting, right?
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Because how you even describe there of waiting for like what was going to happen in the sky?
23:43
SPEAKER_00: What, you know, like and and going like, am I correct in that?
23:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's there's so much there of tapping back into not only intuition, but the Holy Spirit and how is the Holy Spirit leading and how we run to other people information, other sources instead of who has the louder voice, who has the the bigger say and the leaning.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And are you paying attention to that?
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Or are you trying to find it in all these other supposedly concrete ways?
24:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:15
SPEAKER_02: Which listen, we live in a society now where all of us are going to have instant access to information.
24:21
SPEAKER_02: And not all of that's bad.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: Some of that's fine.
24:24
SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it is it's not, I don't want people to think of it as good or bad as opposed to necessary or unnecessary.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's how I think about it.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
24:32
SPEAKER_02: I was living in the high desert, the monastery.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: It's like day seven.
24:35
SPEAKER_02: I just remember waking up.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: It was so freaking hot.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: I was like sweating.
24:39
SPEAKER_02: And like when I woke up because the fan had turned off, I had to have a fan like two feet from my face in the bed.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: And I just remember thinking, like, I wonder how hot it is.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: And then being like, oh, I'm not gonna be able to know.
24:49
SPEAKER_02: I it's just hot.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: It's it's just it just is.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: And I and I just was like, well, I guess like, why would it matter if I knew if it was 103 or 101?
24:58
SPEAKER_02: But we I just wanted to know, you know?
25:00
SPEAKER_02: And so it's just those things that it's like, is it necessary or is it unnecessary?
25:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'd love to expand a little bit more something that you touched on.
25:10
SPEAKER_00: And I know it could be a whole conversation, a whole book for that matter, but it's this concept that as humans, we were never created to hold as much information that we have inundating us or have access to or accessible.
25:24
SPEAKER_00: And part of that, the the way I want to frame the conversation is that we're approaching the holiday season.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're into the thick of it.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: There is the wrestle we have with being present in the moment, savoring, yet preparing.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: Um, we're supposed to have this whole advent, you know, holy wonder.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: And yet the holidays are a mixed bag for most of us.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: We've talked about grief from the past that tends to sneak up.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: We have maybe present grief and loss that we're navigating and experiencing.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, how can we approach this concept?
25:59
SPEAKER_00: One, that we really never were made to hold all of the stories that are floating out there.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And and how do we then approach the holidays with greater peace so that way we can be more present and not bite this thing we really weren't created to do, which is taking them all?
26:17
SPEAKER_02: I love framing it around the holidays because I am Mr.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Christmas.
26:21
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm I go crazy.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: My yard, like I I have limos that come by my house on the Nashville Christmas Light tour.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: No way.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: And so great.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I go all in, right?
26:33
SPEAKER_02: I go all in.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: But since I've done this experiment, quote unquote, even though it really wasn't a scientific experiment, but since I left for those two months and came back, I have purposely tried to move at God's speed during the holidays.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: I'm thinking, okay, if this is all about the birth of Jesus, if this is about this holy night, I just think about how slow everything was.
26:55
SPEAKER_02: I think about Jesus' ministry being three miles an hour and who's following who if we're going 100 miles an hour and he's going three.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: And so I just think if there was ever a season to not only slow down, but slow way down, it's this one.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: It's Christmas.
27:12
SPEAKER_02: Does that mean that everyone's gonna be able to move at the same pace?
27:16
SPEAKER_02: No, but slowing down for you, Amy, is different than slowing down for me.
27:20
SPEAKER_02: And slowing down even more for you is gonna be different than slowing down even more for me.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: So, like everyone needs to look at their lives and go, okay, how can I get back to three miles an hour during the holidays?
27:30
SPEAKER_02: What are ways that I can do that?
27:32
SPEAKER_02: What, you know, does that mean that that, you know, for some people, Enneagram sevens out there?
27:37
SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you what that's gonna mean.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: That's gonna be mean like cutting your Christmas parties by 25%.
27:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, like like it's just like, oh my gosh, like I can't even fathom.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: But you know, that's why it speeds by because we stack and stack and stack and stack.
27:51
SPEAKER_02: No, like take some time, you know.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: One of those nights you're gonna go to a party.
27:54
SPEAKER_02: No, instead, just drive around, listen to some Christmas carols, look for some Christmas lights, and just slow down.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: What are ways that every single person can move back to what I call God speed, three miles an hour?
28:07
SPEAKER_02: I think that's important.
28:08
SPEAKER_02: I also think um savoring is a chapter that I talk about in my book.
28:13
SPEAKER_02: And savoring is something that has to be practiced a lot because um you you almost have to reset your savor.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: Like the second you start savoring something and you realize how good it is and how delicious it is, right?
28:26
SPEAKER_02: Say it's that cup of coffee or whatever, it's that first bite of the cinnamon sourdough cinnamon, and you're just like trying to eat it slowly.
28:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, by the by the second cinnamon roll, it doesn't taste as good as the first bite of the first cinnamon roll.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: So you actually have to stop eating it.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: You have to wait until tomorrow and take another bite again.
28:45
SPEAKER_02: And it's like, oh, then you savor again.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: So, like you have to practice this over and over.
28:48
SPEAKER_02: What are ways that you can practice savoring every single moment this holiday season?
28:54
SPEAKER_02: Your Thanksgiving meal, you know, I talk about anticipating what's gonna happen.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: Start thinking about, oh, like who's coming?
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can't wait to talk to them about this.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: I wonder what's happening there.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, they're gonna love it when we do this, right?
29:06
SPEAKER_02: You do this anticipatory savoring, then you savor in the moment.
29:10
SPEAKER_02: And when you savor in the moment during the holidays, that just means slowing down, let letting it just breathe.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: And then you could actually like savor after the fact as well.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: You can keep thinking, go back to it and think about it even more.
29:22
SPEAKER_02: And the practice and the art of savoring is something that's almost gone because we get you know, Amazon Prime now.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: We got an instant coffee now.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the things I here, this is perfect that we're talking about this.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it's yes, I love it.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: I drink my coffee.
29:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's literally right in front of my face.
29:37
SPEAKER_02: I look like Black Santa right now.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: But I'm my ceramic little Black Santa coffee mug, and I no longer drink my coffee out of a to-go cup or out of a thermos mug, taking it with me.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: If I don't have the time to stop and enjoy one single three and a half minute before it gets lukewarm cup of coffee, then I know I'm going too fast.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: So think let your coffee or your tea be your guide this holiday season.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: If you don't have time in the morning to stop, then wake up five minutes earlier.
30:10
SPEAKER_02: So you can stop, sit on your porch or by the window or whatever it is, take a couple deep breaths, just drink your coffee and start off slow.
30:19
SPEAKER_02: And you know, I think slowness will continue to follow you the rest of the time.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, that's a little bit of you know, all over the place, but hopefully I answered.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, no, so good.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm loving how we're rolling with it.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Part of these practices require a pause, right?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Like a pause to notice and learn to respond instead of react.
30:44
SPEAKER_00: You're with your personality, it's fast paced, you know, your go-getter.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Pausing is not innate.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: So, how have you incorporated that pause so that way you can respond more thoughtfully?
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Yes, I have literally three different pause alarms that hop up on my phone every day.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: So it's a great question that you ask.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: So it's actually an app that'll give you random alarms.
31:07
SPEAKER_02: So you just tell it, I want three alarms between 8 a.m.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: and 5 p.m.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: And I want them to go off randomly.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: And then it just, it just mine say notice is what they is is what they say when it pops up.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: So wherever I'm at, I don't care wherever, if I'm playing pickleball and it goes off on my thing, I'm like, oh, after this game, I've got to pause.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: And so I sit for 15 minutes every single time.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: I pause for 15 minutes.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: So I find the next 15 minute segment that I can block.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Some people may not have that.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: Do it for two minutes.
31:33
SPEAKER_02: I don't care what it is.
31:35
SPEAKER_02: But I set that app on my phone.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: And so the first year I was back from this experiment, I really relied on that.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: Like I wouldn't have paused had I not had that those alarms going off.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Now now I don't even need the app anymore.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: Now I don't even need the alarms.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: Like I am now Mr.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Pause.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: It might it drives my friends and family crazy because I'm just like, you know, oh my gosh, do you see the butterfly?
31:56
SPEAKER_02: Like, come here.
31:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, let's look at that.
31:58
SPEAKER_02: Look at the way that it's moving its antennas.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: I wonder what that's doing.
32:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's it think?
32:02
SPEAKER_02: You know, am I everyone's like, oh my gosh, dude, just like walk by a single caterpillar without like being blown away by the grandness of God.
32:09
SPEAKER_02: But it's just kind of it's in me now, you know.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: Like I love noticing things like that.
32:13
SPEAKER_02: So at the beginning, you may have to set some alarms, you know, do it three times a day.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: I love the hours that the Benedictines kept.
32:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so they we would pray the hours we prayed at 6 a.m.
32:23
SPEAKER_02: at 7:30 a.m.
32:24
SPEAKER_02: at noon at uh like 5 p.m.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: and at 7 p.m.
32:28
SPEAKER_02: And so I've kept a couple of those.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: And again, this is for those of you that like structure, you like concrete.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, something like that is helpful because I've got my little prayer book that I have that the monks gave me that I know what date it is.
32:40
SPEAKER_02: And I know that because I became homies with these monks, I'm like, I know we're praying the same thing.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: Like it's so cool because I still feel connected to them because we're praying these hours together.
32:50
SPEAKER_02: You know, sometimes I'll text Father Carlos, so I was like, Whoa, the Vespers today were crazy.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, Yes, did you feel the Holy Spirit?
32:58
SPEAKER_02: You know, and so like I'm just like, oh, so like those kind of things also allow me to pause, allow me to pray.
33:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, and so I think initially you're gonna have to set some alarms and you're gonna have to build up the habit.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: But then after a while, it just becomes habit.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it it does have a way of working its method into you and your way of being.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: So in my coaching process, we use Enneagram as a foundation to kind of help us and kind of later on in our time together with the clients, we start talking about the contemplative practices, stillness, silence, solitude specifically, resting, consenting, engaging.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: And those all pair uniquely with each type.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: But I think to that point, the silence has been the thing that has brought about the change.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: Because what you're talking about there, that pausing is a an upstream practice for you.
33:48
SPEAKER_00: And for me, silence was the hardest thing to get into.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: But now it's my go-to instead of just throwing in the AirPods for the podcast or the music, which are all great and wonderful and still do.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: But I've also been like, wait, is this a moment for silence?
34:06
SPEAKER_00: Is this car ride, this 30-minute car ride, which before would have like killed me?
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: It's just almost as normal as breathing of like, is this what I do?
34:16
SPEAKER_00: And it does lead to these other places of wonder and noticing and adoration and all the resetting and the connecting then even with others, because then I'm fully connected to my creator and myself and maybe even process some of the things that would have interfered later on.
34:36
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, absolutely.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: You know, and what I love actually, this I think this is what's very interesting, is that most of the stuff we've been talking about, even though I said I'd rather live with the Amish, most of the stuff we're talking about are things that I learned from the monks.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, interesting.
34:51
SPEAKER_02: And and so, you know, that and I think because there was such a need for spiritual discipline in my life and practices in my life, that all of these things, noticing, savoring, wondering, all of these things were really formed for me in the Benedictine community to where when I got to the Amish, okay, so I was like already fallen in love with all those things, um, that all the things that I that I don't do because of my phone, like work in the land with my hands, you know, shearing sheep and like, you know, all of that stuff I was doing with the Amish.
35:22
SPEAKER_02: But again, those are out like outer experiences versus the inner experience, you know.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I I think these are foundational.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that when I went to the monks, it first, even though it was hardest to do it that way, because I went from a thousand miles an hour to nothing.
35:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I feel like it laid the foundation for me to be successful when I got to the Amish and when I got back home and continued on now.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like there's a lot of stuff that you don't miss from the before, you know, what did you say?
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Seven hours a day easily?
35:55
SPEAKER_02: Seven hours and 23 minutes a day, which equals 49 hours a week, which equals three months a year, which equals if I lived to be 85 years old, 11 and a half years, I would have ended up staring at my phone.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: Are you serious?
36:07
SPEAKER_02: There's that so that's the kicker.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: That's the math.
36:09
SPEAKER_02: That's the math that I want everyone to do.
36:11
SPEAKER_02: Just go look on your screen time right now, whether you have an Android or an iPhone, look at the average hours and minutes a day, and then just start doing the math.
36:19
SPEAKER_02: Well, what does that equal a week?
36:20
SPEAKER_02: That was two entire cycles of the sun.
36:22
SPEAKER_02: I was looking at my phone, like not awake time, awake and asleep time, then three months a year.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: And then, yeah, if I live to be 85, all my grandparents lived way longer than that.
36:31
SPEAKER_02: But if I make it that far, I will lose over 11 years of my life looking at a screen.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: And so that was like the thing that was like, whoa, yeah, I've got I've got to do something.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Something has to change.
36:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you and I, we, you know, I'm in my mid 40s.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: You got a little bit of edge on me.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: So we've got we're raising these, this next generation.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I didn't have a cell phone till I was in my 20s.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And probably you similarly, but our kids, that's what they've been asking for since, you know, I don't know, before they were teenagers, right?
37:05
SPEAKER_00: And so they're faced with a very different world at starting at a much younger age.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:11
SPEAKER_00: Do you think there's going to be natural recorrection back to uh the more human ways of being?
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Or do we have to have this change in us so that way the next generation has something a little bit better?
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: I I I think about that all the time.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: I think that if we don't have the change in us as elder millennials, Gen Xers, even my mom, you know, I think she's more addicted to her phone than I am, you know, that my kids are to theirs, you know, like it's isn't like um some generation is worse than others.
37:43
SPEAKER_02: We're all we're all struggling with it.
37:44
SPEAKER_02: But I I do see a very specific role that parents of preteens and teens and little ones, just parents right now in general that are raising kids in their home, have an opportunity to shift the practices of your kids.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: I told people all the time when they were like, if we have one piece of parenting advice, right?
38:04
SPEAKER_02: Like, so I've got a 22-year-old, a 21 year old, and an 18-year-old, right?
38:08
SPEAKER_00: So they're all you've earned good street cred.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you can tell us.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: Right.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: And so I'm like, you know, when people used to ask me when my kids were like 10, 9, and 8 or 7, like, give me parenting advice.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: I was like, listen, like I'm still I got a long way to go.
38:21
SPEAKER_02: I got a long way to go.
38:22
SPEAKER_02: They could still all end up in prison.
38:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, like, yes, I'm not gonna give you any, you know.
38:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, but as I look at it, the one thing I tell parents, if there's only one thing I could tell you, is wait as long as you can to give them a screen.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, like literally, that is it.
38:36
SPEAKER_02: That is the now, you know, it that's getting harder and harder to do, right?
38:40
SPEAKER_02: There's like eight-year-olds that need iPads in order to do school now, you know, like it's get, and I know it is, but that's the one thing I say is wait longer as long as you can wait, possible, as long as possible.
38:51
SPEAKER_02: Wait, this is what's cool is when I came home for those remaining three weeks um with my family, they were still on their screens.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: I I'm the only one that stayed screen free.
39:01
SPEAKER_02: So it's not like I came home and I was like, all right, no Netflix, you know, no phones.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: No, you they stayed on their screens.
39:06
SPEAKER_02: I was off my screen.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
39:09
SPEAKER_02: When I lived with my family for those three weeks, my family's screen time got cut in half.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
39:17
SPEAKER_02: So I I need people to understand this.
39:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, I didn't implement a single rule.
39:21
SPEAKER_02: I didn't get phones off.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: When I, when dad wasn't on his phone, okay.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: If it was mom, when mom wasn't on her phone, the kids just were like, well, I'm not gonna, I mean, if if I'm having a conversation with my parents and they're just looking at me, I'm not gonna be on my phone.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: And so, next thing you know, I I say, you know, I've I've heard it a thousand times when people say parenting is way more caught than taught.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, like raising your kids is more caught than taught.
39:46
SPEAKER_02: And I just feel like just because I wasn't on my phone, their screen time got cut in half.
39:52
SPEAKER_02: So this is something that I think will become normal the less we're on our screens, the less our kids will, you know, be as well.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I think that we are seeing more and more.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: There's so much more data that there's other way better books on all the data stuff, just showing the effects of what screens are doing.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: I was just with the mayor of Corpus Christi, Texas.
40:13
SPEAKER_02: I was speaking to the city there and I talked to the superintendent, and he's like, last year was our very first year being screen-free, no phones allowed in middle school and high school.
40:24
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What?
40:25
SPEAKER_02: He's like, Yeah, no phones allowed.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: Now I again I know that's a hot topic for some parents, but he's like, Listen, there was not a single parent that pushed back against it.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: Not a single parent pushed back against it.
40:35
SPEAKER_02: And he's like, We've seen bullying go down, we've seen test scores go up, we've seen all these things happen.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: And I think we're getting to the point now that we've got the data that, you know, it's the cigarette.
40:45
SPEAKER_02: You know, we're gonna realize that, oh, we're gonna have to put some warnings on these things.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: That these things are causing more damage than before.
40:51
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I think we're on the cusp.
40:53
SPEAKER_02: We either make a decision as a generation to help our kids stop, or there's gonna be gigantic repercussions that uh we don't want to see, but it it's gonna course correct.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: It will.
41:02
SPEAKER_02: I I do believe that humanity will course correct.
41:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I just would rather do it instead of you know it having to do it to me, if that be case.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's so much there that'll preach.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: And I would concur with the stats from the mayor in Corpus Christie because I have family who are teachers in Colorado Springs.
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: And the district that they're in eliminated the screens as well.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And it has radically shifted.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: And they're just a year and a half into it.
41:31
SPEAKER_00: This is the second school year, and um, the the information coming out of there.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: And I have a brother in politics in Savannah on the other side of the country, and we were giving that data and information.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: And I have a unique experience where we have checked out every school in my region and been to a couple of them.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: And I've seen the difference in my kids when they can have screens and when they can't.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: And I hands down agree that we would all be better served.
41:58
SPEAKER_00: This generation would be better served on every level if we made the boundaries there that would allow us to be more human beings.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
42:06
SPEAKER_02: From and your kids, I'm telling you, like they will fall in love with wondering my son all the time.
42:13
SPEAKER_02: You know, if I'm trying, if I pull my phone out, if someone has a question at a dinner party and uh they're like, what happened in 1987 during that?
42:18
SPEAKER_02: And I pull he's like, Dad, just wonder.
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Just wonder.
42:21
SPEAKER_02: You don't have to know.
42:22
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Oh my gosh, you know, and so like they they love these things, you know, they they want to, they want to, they just haven't ever experienced it, right?
42:30
SPEAKER_02: They didn't experience their childhood like we did.
42:32
SPEAKER_02: And so, like it's gonna be new for them.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, you just gotta think anything new you try, you don't want to try it because it's new.
42:39
SPEAKER_02: All this stuff is new to them.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, don't give up on them.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: So, with one of the main things that you said here just recently about you came in the home for three weeks, you led by example.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: Imagine that, leading by example.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: Go figure.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: Go figure.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: So, give my friends some maybe tips, some help as we enter into this holiday season.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: We're still gonna love gathering around the TV and watching the Christmas movies, right?
43:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, pulling out the phone to take a picture, uh-huh, potentially stuff like that.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: How do we lead by example in this season to reclaim and reconnect?
43:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, your book really is could help the setting of our hearts to reclaim some of what we've lost, even during the Christmas season.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, first thing, first rule that I would say is to reclaim some of this in the holiday season that's coming up is go ahead and do it right now.
43:33
SPEAKER_02: Every listener on this podcast, make a hard set rule that there will be no more screens at the table, no more screens at any meals.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: Like that it's over.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: Just do it for the holidays.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: Just be like, hey guys, holiday holiday from from Thanksgiving to Christmas, we're gonna have meals.
43:47
SPEAKER_02: And and also here, there's a there's another part of the first part of that sentence is something that we've stopped doing meals.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, so it's like it's like you gotta have a meal in order to have a screen free meal.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: And yeah, one.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: things I learned with the Amish is you know all of our meals were like 90 minutes long two hours long breakfast was like an hour and a half and I was like what in the world they take so long 1923 the average American meal lasted 90 minutes 2023 the average American meal lasts 12 minutes and so you know that's heartbreaking yeah start having 30 minute meals again you know just start having some meals make them screen free if you want if you watch a family movie here's a rule ready only one screen the only screen you get to look at is a screen that's in front of you hey we're doing a screen not to not now you got to double the time so when your screen time comes up on Sunday you got to add the the double screen time right so like only one screen no one gets to be on their phone no no be all in if you're gonna watch a movie be all in screen for right um another thing again I recommend for everybody and start in the holiday season but make it go all the way through is um you know start go to Target go to go to get on Amazon and buy yourself an alarm clock put the alarm clock next to your bed and no longer use your phone as your alarm clock because you will automatically almost every single person will cut off at least 45 minutes to an hour of screen time a day if before you go to bed you plug your phone in the kitchen.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: That's a whole hour.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean if you do do the math you may be gaining two years of your life back just by getting an alarm so get an alarm clock.
45:18
SPEAKER_02: And again in my book, you know every chapter I've got like three or four very practical handlebar advices that you can uh use to lessen the amount of screen time in your life as you start adding these things.
45:30
SPEAKER_02: But yeah during the holiday season you know slow and then just slow down slow down this holiday season.
45:37
SPEAKER_02: Take more walks around the you know just like we did in COVID.
45:41
SPEAKER_02: Lockdown time we're all walking around our neighborhoods nobody's doing that anymore.
45:44
SPEAKER_02: So you know get back out there pretend like we're locked down for a couple days and just slow things down.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh this is so good.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: Carlos I'm so glad you did this experiment for us.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you documented it which before you go what I would love to hear could you tease the documentary because that's so cool.
46:03
SPEAKER_02: Look at you.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: Yes I know so so that that's the thing is I I took a little Sony um actually I have it I took this camera right here a little just a little it's it's imagine that just basic it's just a camera like it's an actual camera.
46:18
SPEAKER_02: And because people it's so funny because you know I have all this footage and they're like well how'd you get how'd you make a documentary if you're screen free and I was like well because back in the day there were phones and cameras and cameras separate and I'm like there's nothing wrong with with with videoing and taking you know just don't share it in the moment right and so I took this camera ended up with like 60 hours of footage of just me talking to myself and I really took the footage more so I could remember when I wrote the book uh because I was like this is gonna be a long time I want to make sure so every night I'd set the camera up and I just talk to it.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Well you know the more and more nights that happened the more I was like crying in the camera and I was like oh my gosh this is horrible I want to go home uh and then I would you know I would like interview the monks and then I was when I got back I was like I have all this footage so I gave it to a filmmaker friend just to be like do I have like a 15 minute YouTube video here or something right and he came back and he's like dude I think we have a movie and I was like what wow he's like so we we ended up making a film we he I gave it to him let him kind of create the story arc of it um then he filmed a whole bunch of interviews with me he you know interviewed a couple other people we got a lot of extra footage and yeah we made a movie and so the movie came out I did a screening here in Nashville last week um and then it went out to my Kickstarters so I funded it on Kickstarter it went out to all my Kickstarters and so as of right now me and my team are just looking for the distribution platform to put it on but pretty soon everybody's gonna be able to see uh reconnected the documentary.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh that is gonna that's so wild and I can't wait to watch it I just love that this could reach a unique demographic and audience that a book may not or that a podcast may not.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: So absolutely I think of my friends because you know they're obviously listening to the podcast because they're podcast people but then maybe thinking of their kids or a spouse or a family member that they know they'd love to send this to but maybe or maybe they want to watch it or listen but maybe they would watch something.
48:12
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely that could help give those you haven't called handlebars, but I think you've given us some training wheels yeah here today to get started.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: And you know even as you held up the good old fashioned camera, I'm thinking maybe I need to bring a camera to Christmas and Thanksgiving and leave the phone behind.
48:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes still capture the moment and then not be tempted.
48:36
SPEAKER_02: One of my chapters is buy a camera, leave the phone at home, capture all the wonderful memories and you know share it with everyone later.
48:43
SPEAKER_02: You know you so yeah definitely don't share the moment in the moment.
48:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah so good.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Well Carlos, thank you so much for this fantastic conversation.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: This was so fun and I know our friends listening are going to love it.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: And um I hope they come say hi and say thank you because you do you're really active when you're on your phone.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: You love to chat with people and absolutely um you're great about building community.
49:06
SPEAKER_00: So thank you for what you're doing, your work and I look forward to a next time.
49:11
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
49:11
SPEAKER_00: We'll do it ah see that was so good.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: I loved every minute it went by too quickly and hopefully Carlos will indulge us in the future for his next project.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: But for now be sure and check out the link in the show notes so you can put reconnected the book on your wish list or go ahead and order it here as you continue to orient yourself in this holiday season.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: I think you'll appreciate his writing style as well.
49:39
SPEAKER_00: He is a great storyteller as you just got to hear for yourself.
49:42
SPEAKER_00: So you know it'll be a good read.
49:45
SPEAKER_00: And also like we talked about Carlos loves to connect with his community online.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: So be sure and send him a direct message of how much you appreciated him being on the podcast and sharing more of his story with you.
49:57
SPEAKER_00: Plus you'll want to stay tuned to when that documentary releases to the rest of us.
50:02
SPEAKER_00: Now next week we're going to jump in full steam ahead to the holiday and advent season to prepare our hearts for these coming weeks in the anticipation of celebration.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: Of course, as you know we always talk about how nuanced that celebration is for each one of us.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: We're maybe remembering things that didn't go the way we wanted to this year, or maybe we're dealing with some estranged relationships or just people that are absent at the table this year.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: So we're going to talk about all of that and I think it's kind of interesting.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: I know that I always have men and women on the podcast, but I tend to you know have more women on the podcast but this week and then the next two weeks I have male guests on the show but I was really excited to hear from their distinct and unique voices as we prepare our hearts for this season.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: And so next week AJ Sherrill who has been well known in the spiritual and Enneagram space he released a book about rediscovering Christmas and he is sharing about it next week on the podcast.
51:07
SPEAKER_00: It was such a great conversation beautiful it was deep it was totally my heart and I'm really excited for you to check out his book but also to hear that conversation as well.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: So make sure that you are subscribed to the Simply Wholehearted podcast so that way as soon as it releases next week it'll automatically be on your feed and ready to listen to as you head to the carpool line, you carpool to work, or maybe you are being diligent and keeping your walking habit throughout these colder months.
51:40
SPEAKER_00: As always, thank you so much for listening to these episodes it means the world to me that you give your listening time to these conversations be sure and share them with a friend if they were meaningful to you.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: And until next time remember we're all broken we're all blowing it but it's the brave one who does something about it