Latest / Authentic Living / Supporting Women in Leadership Internationally with Kelly Blackaby

Transcript

Supporting Women in Leadership Internationally with Kelly Blackaby · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:37
  Everyone, it's, Roxanne Durgesh of authenticating with Roxanne.
• 0:40
  Today, I have a colleague, Kelly Blackabee, and Kelly Princeton, unique expertise, I think a
• 0:46
  topic that I've touched on, which is basically women in leadership, but this her perspective
• 0:52
  is a bit different in her in that she works a lot of, with a lot of emerging leaders in the
• 0:57
  Middle East.
• 0:58
  And I thought it's a conversation that was very valuable to have.
• 1:02
  So, Kelly, thanks so much for coming on today.
• 1:05
  Thank you, Roxanne.
• 1:06
  It's a pleasure to speak with you.
• 1:09
  So Kelly Kelly's been in, Internationally Charf, I think, for about 20 years or so.
• 1:15
  And Working.
• 1:17
  I think you've been working in the Middle East for quite a long time.
• 1:20
  So tell us a little bit about kind of your process and what ended up, you know, getting
• 1:27
  each of the space where you ended up working a lot in the Middle East.
• 1:30
  Sure.
• 1:30
  Sure.
• 1:31
  Fantastic.
• 1:31
  So so, yeah, so so as you said, I've been in the, HR industry for 20 years.
• 1:37
  Was lucky enough to have the opportunity to work in Saudi Arabia for a large organization,
• 1:44
  that's based over in rehab.
• 1:47
  I worked there for 8 years and then came back to the UK, but continue to to support them as
• 1:53
  an HR and, culture consultant I was one of the first women to be ever employed actually within
• 2:01
  my sector while I was over in Saudi Arabia.
• 2:03
  And then later went on to introduce the first female workforce into the organization once
• 2:10
  legislation had changed.
• 2:12
  Created the 1st female focused policies.
• 2:15
  Still today, continue to coach and mentor, Middle Eastern ladies In particular, supporting
• 2:22
  newly promoted female leaders who are transitioning into new management roles, and
• 2:27
  female entrepreneurs with their business proposals and helping them to take that
• 2:32
  forward.
• 2:33
  Julius, right?
• 2:34
  Like, because you you hear about this time.
• 2:36
  And I think in in different parts of the world, we we kind of think it's a concept, right, but
• 2:43
  you've you were at the kind of the beginning point where things were just opening up for
• 2:50
  women in the Middle East.
• 2:51
  What was that like for you?
• 2:52
  Obviously, born and raised in the UK been in, you know, been working in Europe or
• 2:58
  Internationally.
• 2:59
  What was that like for you?
• 3:01
  As a senior female leader entering that that realm.
• 3:05
  Yes.
• 3:05
  Absolutely.
• 3:06
  Yes.
• 3:06
  It was fascinating.
• 3:08
  I so I was the most senior, female employee at the port at that point, and also the only
• 3:14
  female employee in human resources.
• 3:17
  So I actually had a lot of opportunity to help to drive some of that change, which was
• 3:24
  fantastic.
• 3:24
  And the organization itself actually was was quite responsive to that change.
• 3:30
  I think in in terms of if we talk a little bit about Saudi, I mean, the in 2009, so while I
• 3:37
  was there, only 14% of the, of Saudi women above the age of fifteen were employed most of
• 3:44
  that was in the public sector.
• 3:46
  So, in the private sector where I was, only 8.5% of Saudi workers were were women, in 2009,
• 3:54
  and most of the roles were held by men or non Saudi expatriate workers.
• 4:00
  But Saudi women make up 32 percent of, the workforce now that we move, many years later,
• 4:08
  and there's a huge opportunity there for, Saudi ladies to join the workplace.
• 4:13
  And I think even back when I was when I was employed as one of the very first women, the
• 4:18
  Saudi organizations did recognize that there was this huge untapped resource, that was there
• 4:24
  that was waiting to to come and contribute to the economy, it contributes to the workplace.
• 4:30
  It was just having the opportunity really to to kind of access them.
• 4:35
  So, yes, it was great when it changed.
• 4:38
  So interesting.
• 4:39
  Right?
• 4:39
  Because we talk a lot about parody, you know, other parts of the world.
• 4:44
  And, you know, you're coming into an environment where now, like you said, 32%.
• 4:49
  That's massive, compared to started.
• 4:53
  So how is it that, there's a lot of female executives now.
• 4:58
  Like you said, in Saudi, what's it like that?
• 5:01
  Let's say, you know, from an international frame, if we look at, you know, Europe or or
• 5:07
  Asia or even North America, and you look at a female executive and come kind and I know it
• 5:12
  might be a a fair question, but how do they compare, to other, say, female executives?
• 5:19
  Yeah.
• 5:20
  Sure.
• 5:20
  So I think I think Saudi itself has has done a lot of work in terms of helping to support
• 5:27
  Saudi leaders, sorry, female leaders, within the workplace.
• 5:31
  So they have made some great progress.
• 5:34
  They've introduced some reforms under their vision 2030, which is their national
• 5:40
  development plan to bring some changes, to support women and they've really benefited.
• 5:46
  So for example, they've been looking at closing gender gaps, within introducing a minimum
• 5:54
  salary for Saudi women.
• 5:56
  They've looked to equalizing retirement age for women, which was always very different.
• 6:01
  And they've also introduced greater protection from discrimination and harassment in the
• 6:06
  workplace.
• 6:07
  So I guess what else needs to be done and what what else is it that that female leaders are
• 6:12
  are potentially looking for or still lacking within the organization.
• 6:16
  And I think what doesn't exist at at this point is a that sort of history, I guess, of that and
• 6:22
  that peer structure for female leaders.
• 6:25
  So, they are the very first of their generation and and in history to take these roles.
• 6:32
  And so, what we have in other parts of the world is access to, peers, to mentors, to
• 6:40
  coaches, to tools that have existed and and been tested.
• 6:44
  Throughout the years to help us within our positions.
• 6:47
  And that's something which I think having spoken to many Saudi ladies.
• 6:51
  And as I say, I do mentor quite a few still at senior positions, and that's something that I
• 6:57
  think they feel that is still developing and still still something that's that's much needed
• 7:02
  in the region?
• 7:04
  I think of, you know, again, historical context.
• 7:07
  When I was a senior leader, and I was trying to kinda go up a level, I would find, you know,
• 7:12
  someone that could kind of mentor me accordingly, to kind of go up, you know, as a
• 7:17
  level, but this is not something that really has been, like you said, it's a historical
• 7:21
  legacy piece that they are the, you know, the beginning point.
• 7:26
  They are the 4 and I I have 4 fathers.
• 7:28
  I'm not sure what the proper work would be for our building history as being the first ones.
• 7:36
  So that's an interesting thing.
• 7:38
  So I know that you have been working, arguably, to develop something, which would kind of help
• 7:47
  some of these needs.
• 7:48
  So tell us a little bit about that because, you know, when Kelly and I spoke, it was
• 7:52
  fascinating because these are things that mentors mentees, you know, allies, all those
• 7:58
  things are things that, you know, we're continually looking at, on a corporate lens
• 8:02
  here in North America, but this is something that really based on need in the in the Arab
• 8:07
  countries that you're actually building from the ground up.
• 8:10
  So tell us a little bit more about that, Kelly.
• 8:13
  Yeah.
• 8:13
  Absolutely.
• 8:14
  So again, kind of, I guess, looking at my own personal experience of being a, female leader
• 8:19
  within the region and the challenges that I face while I was there.
• 8:24
  And then, as I say, speaking to some of the ladies that are kind of going through that
• 8:28
  transition at the moment.
• 8:29
  And I think there's still a lot that needs to happen for Middle Eastern Women and
• 8:33
  particularly within smaller organizations.
• 8:36
  The large corporations have been introducing some great initiatives, taking some, best
• 8:42
  practice from other parts of the world, and and putting that putting that in in place.
• 8:48
  But I think the smaller organizations, also then still need to make some positive changes.
• 8:54
  And particularly when we're looking at the entire, I guess, population, women do make up
• 8:59
  40% of the population in Saudi.
• 9:01
  So most of those, women will be coming up now and looking for for positions in the workplace.
• 9:07
  So there needs to be some some opportunities for them, to progress within that.
• 9:13
  So, yeah, so as I say, I firmly believe that the Saudi, 20, 30 vision has put women's
• 9:20
  empowerment among some of its top priorities.
• 9:23
  And so I'm looking then to help organizations in their work that they can, they can put
• 9:29
  forward to to support this, this development plan.
• 9:33
  So I'm currently working on an which will be launched later this year, which will be
• 9:38
  supported by some of the most prominent organizations, in Saudi Arabia and across the
• 9:43
  Middle East.
• 9:44
  And for which I'm also in discussion, currently with Forbes Middle East as well.
• 9:50
  So this initiative will help to connect Saudi women and women across the Middle East, to an
• 9:56
  aspiring female community.
• 10:00
  To help empower and support them to develop among their peers and colleagues across the
• 10:04
  globe.
• 10:05
  So we'll be opening up opportunities gain access to mentors and coaching, as well as
• 10:11
  tools and resources, collaborating across the UK, Asia, and the US.
• 10:17
  So it's really exciting.
• 10:19
  Mhmm.
• 10:20
  Absolutely.
• 10:21
  So when you said, what was some of the blockages that you experienced?
• 10:24
  Cause I, you know, I would think that your personal lived experience really was very,
• 10:31
  valuable when you built this.
• 10:32
  So what tell me what tell me some or a memorable experience or struggle that you kinda
• 10:38
  kind of repetitively kind of come up against that really helped you formulate some of the
• 10:43
  things that you're creating now.
• 10:45
  Sure.
• 10:45
  Sure.
• 10:45
  So I guess probably the biggest example was being the sole the sole woman, around the board
• 10:51
  table, particularly in an organization where women had never sat around the board table.
• 10:59
  So for me, it was really it was a huge learning curve in terms of my influencing and
• 11:04
  negotiating skills, being able to put forward my opinion and my point of view and for people
• 11:10
  to some of the men around that table to listen to, my point of view when actually that, you
• 11:16
  know, women hadn't really traditionally been around that table, until that point.
• 11:22
  And that was something that took a lot of courage from from my side and a lot of
• 11:27
  perseverance.
• 11:29
  And I'm finding that when I'm speaking to ladies, at senior level, within, corporations
• 11:35
  in Saudi, that this is still a challenge that they're facing today.
• 11:39
  It is changing, and I think, you know, the men and the senior leadership within the
• 11:45
  organizations are really open now to, embracing that change and embracing what women have to
• 11:51
  offer, but it's still taking a little while.
• 11:54
  So that's why I think it would be great to offer women the opportunity to to verbal to to
• 11:59
  speak to other women and, talked about their experiences in in similar situations and how
• 12:05
  they dealt with that and how they develop their skills, and how they were able then to become a
• 12:11
  really, I guess important and really recognized part of that that team.
• 12:19
  So, you know, the logical question I have is let's pretend I'm a female executive in the UK
• 12:28
  or Canada where I am.
• 12:30
  And I go a bid, let's say, a bid, you know, to to a board.
• 12:37
  And I'm, you know, I've got my slide deck.
• 12:40
  I've got, you know, I've I've researched everything.
• 12:42
  I know what I'm gonna say.
• 12:44
  I know what the pain points are.
• 12:46
  I know, you know, what my offering is.
• 12:49
  I go I deliver, and I'm gonna be objections potentially price you know, whatever that's
• 12:55
  gonna come up.
• 12:56
  How is that different?
• 12:58
  If we could kind of give us a lens in, kind of in the Arab culture, how is that for a female
• 13:05
  that's going into that context.
• 13:06
  I'm thinking of you walking into that boardroom with years of history when women didn't have
• 13:11
  the rights, then they get the rights Then you're the 1st, you know, non Arab women,
• 13:17
  which, you know, comes with nuances there.
• 13:20
  And you go to deliver in that situation.
• 13:23
  Tell me what it's like at that point and what how are you different, or what do you have to
• 13:27
  do different so your voice gets heard, to make the business case?
• 13:32
  Sure.
• 13:33
  So so I guess where that would be different is that, the culture, I guess, has always been
• 13:39
  very much that it's very male driven and that the, the male leaders around that table are the
• 13:45
  ones that have lived this experience previously and have the the knowledge and, the examples of
• 13:53
  where they've done this behind them.
• 13:55
  And, so what where it's different for the lady coming in is that they really, so not only have
• 14:00
  to know their subjects, but they also really have to be able, I think, to withstand some
• 14:06
  scrutiny from those male leaders in terms of the questions and the challenges that come from
• 14:12
  them.
• 14:13
  And that can be really intimidating for ladies, particularly if they haven't lived through
• 14:18
  those opportunities or that those experiences previously and that this is the first time that
• 14:22
  they've done this, which for many women it will be.
• 14:24
  It will be their first leadership role.
• 14:26
  It will be their first, time of going in potentially to to put forward a pitch So I
• 14:33
  think that's where women could really help to empower other women.
• 14:37
  So we can really help to, listen to those ladies and and help them with their pitch
• 14:43
  moving forward to help them to to foresee some of those, challenges that might come back from
• 14:49
  the rest of the room, and how they respond to those, how they respond perhaps to some, some
• 14:56
  of the direct challenges from the men who who haven't moved as quickly within the culture as
• 15:01
  as perhaps they should do.
• 15:04
  I guess, really, for the ladies, it it's just the experience of being able to do that and to
• 15:09
  to keep strong.
• 15:11
  So that's where I think we can offer some of those tools and resources and that relationship
• 15:15
  building as well, you know, building the relationship with their peers around that table
• 15:19
  And they need to remember that they are peers.
• 15:22
  That's how they need to the ladies really need to see themselves is that they are the same
• 15:26
  level as as those gentlemen sitting around that table.
• 15:29
  And It it does take courage.
• 15:32
  Well, absolutely.
• 15:33
  I would think I think of the first time that I had my first corporate position and and just
• 15:38
  the stressors around, you know, being able to to go and, you know, I bring up certain comp
• 15:43
  certain competencies, but still, you're entering that arena for the first time as a
• 15:47
  young female executive.
• 15:48
  Right?
• 15:49
  And then you're like, okay.
• 15:50
  I can do this.
• 15:50
  I have everything that they need, but you're still that chatter in your head is still there
• 15:55
  until you kind of harden up to the environment and everything.
• 15:58
  So I think of, women from the Middle East and and the cultural nuances that would be the
• 16:03
  backdrop And also the men that they are also presenting to and then hopefully be enlightened
• 16:10
  enough in that context to to create the space to listen to them and and what the skills or
• 16:16
  the things that they're delivering as well.
• 16:18
  So I could see a bit a bit of a you're coaching them and you know, but you also with some of
• 16:25
  the older guard potentially not being in the new frame or the new mind set of the new, you
• 16:31
  know, UAE kind of thing.
• 16:34
  So I think it's a bit of both.
• 16:35
  So is it that you find that the younger generation of executive males in the UAE.
• 16:42
  Are they more open to the newer concept?
• 16:45
  I guess it's probably, you know, different really, with kind of the what we've kind of
• 16:50
  dealt with with upper kind of levels across, corporates.
• 16:54
  Regardless of where you in the world.
• 16:56
  Yeah.
• 16:56
  I would absolutely agree with that.
• 16:58
  So I found a a lot of the younger generation within Saudi Arabia also they're educated in
• 17:05
  other parts of the world as well as they're educated globally.
• 17:08
  So quite a few that that I work with were educated in the US or educated in London.
• 17:14
  And they really recognized the, in the contribution that women made to the workplace
• 17:20
  and and the economy and and how valuable those opinions and and input from women are.
• 17:27
  And I think, you know, well, I think it's really important as well that as this
• 17:30
  generation, comes up through organizations, they can then influence the organization to be
• 17:36
  but to be more supportive of women leaders.
• 17:38
  And I think it's really key as well to note that in environments where women feel more
• 17:44
  ambitious and more confident but they're also more likely to advance their careers.
• 17:48
  So, you know, the the organization is then gonna have a very, a very capable person, as
• 17:56
  part of their their team.
• 17:58
  And and in fact, there was a statistic that I saw, just just yesterday that your women are
• 18:03
  62% more likely to reach management level and above compared to, less equal workplace is.
• 18:10
  So they have three times more likely to advance through an organization.
• 18:14
  If that organization is willing and open to support them and to recognize the contribution
• 18:20
  that they make.
• 18:21
  And I I think definitely the younger generation will help to steer that, as time goes on.
• 18:29
  And absolutely, and women generally have more transformational elements for leadership, which
• 18:33
  would make sense with the statistic that you talk.
• 18:35
  They're intuitive.
• 18:36
  They're they're able to kind of, read nuances or, you know, in a in a room, to kind of
• 18:42
  understand what potentially people might be.
• 18:43
  I guess, again, the way we're wired And again, making sense that 62% would be at that level.
• 18:50
  Now for women this, right, not just gonna be in the in the Middle East, on people that are
• 18:55
  living miss listening in the Middle East or even in North America.
• 18:58
  Let's see a North American companies that are expanding out into into the Middle East.
• 19:03
  If a company that's thinking, I'm thinking about expanding.
• 19:07
  Right?
• 19:07
  And based on what's happening, like you said, in and some of the Arab countries, with
• 19:13
  expansion would make logical sense with the markets there.
• 19:16
  What should some of senior leaders think about in reference to expansion out into the middle
• 19:21
  east, what are some of the things that they might be thinking about with some of the
• 19:26
  conversations that we're having here?
• 19:28
  Yeah.
• 19:29
  Absolutely.
• 19:29
  So I think some of the organizations, and I think what's happening as well with the 2030
• 19:34
  vision is that the government are you know, are actively encouraging organizations and
• 19:41
  businesses and brands to to come into Saudi Arabia.
• 19:45
  They the country is very much more open than it used to be.
• 19:49
  There's opportunities there for, expansion of of brands and and businesses and services.
• 19:56
  So it's a great opportunity to go in, I think, at this point in time.
• 20:00
  So I think for brands, I think what they would what they could offer actually to the country
• 20:06
  and to really help to drive some of this change forward is to come and and set, I guess, a bit
• 20:11
  of an example or in terms of opening up their businesses there and really promoting their
• 20:17
  female leaders, including their female leaders within, working parties, within as part of the
• 20:24
  decision making process, I I think they the the history and the culture will change as more as
• 20:33
  more of these organizations come in and really demonstrate about how much they support women
• 20:39
  at all levels through throughout their organization.
• 20:42
  So, it's it's exciting.
• 20:44
  I think there is I think it the change is just gonna continue to operate at such a pace I'm
• 20:49
  looking forward to to seeing how how it goes.
• 20:54
  Amazing.
• 20:54
  And I think that's that's so right.
• 20:56
  Like you said, like, if you are looking at expansion and you have these, you know, young
• 21:01
  female leaders and, you know, I'm, I, you know, I'm at the stage of my career now.
• 21:05
  Most of the female leaders that I'm dealing with.
• 21:07
  They're about 20 years my junior.
• 21:08
  So you're realizing, how many female leaders have done so much quite young as well.
• 21:14
  And, you know, now they're the you know, they're taking over the the realm of of, pretty
• 21:19
  pretty big position.
• 21:20
  So I think that's really exciting for brands to you know, if they're seeing that there's female
• 21:25
  leaders that want to be able to take on new challenges and projects, what a what a great
• 21:30
  opportunity for companies to potentially offer that So tell me within what you're building,
• 21:36
  right, for a company listening and saying, you know, you know, we might need the help you
• 21:42
  know, to kind of access, support for female leaders, what kind of support you talked a bit
• 21:49
  about coaching, so coaching, mentors, mentees, what else will there be?
• 21:56
  Will there be, ability to have online courses?
• 22:00
  What kind of other things might you be offering?
• 22:03
  Yeah.
• 22:04
  So, definitely, so, the what we're hoping to do is, as I say, kind of create this this network
• 22:10
  and this, this community for women, which will provide not only the mentoring and the coaching
• 22:17
  and the access to tools, but also, the opportunity I think to network globally.
• 22:24
  So for an example, a lawyer, a newly qualified lawyer, Riyadh can link up with a newly
• 22:30
  qualified lawyer in the States, for example, to share, again, thoughts, experiences, ideas,
• 22:37
  opinions, and and talk through some of the challenges that they find, not just, I guess,
• 22:42
  within, being a woman within the sector, but I guess the sector and and they're industry in
• 22:47
  general.
• 22:49
  There's opportunities to link up with, some of the large corporations.
• 22:54
  So we're hoping that they will be showcasing some of their careers opportunities as well
• 22:59
  and, how what it's like working for the organization.
• 23:03
  So there'll be opportunities there.
• 23:05
  There'll be opportunities for education.
• 23:08
  There'll be opportunities for qualifications, So it's it's gonna be very broad in terms of
• 23:15
  everything there that women can kind of reach out for whatever stage of career whatever stage
• 23:20
  of their career that they're at that point in time, that if they need something, they can
• 23:24
  they can reach out and and easily find something that fits with whatever, I guess,
• 23:31
  sort of situation they are, so whether they're working from home, whether they're studying at
• 23:36
  home, whether they're working in a work place or hybrid working, whether they're a working
• 23:41
  mom.
• 23:42
  So there will be lots of opportunity there to to tap into some of those resources.
• 23:47
  So not just professional development, but also anything.
• 23:50
  You know, when I sit in, rooms with Forbes Executives all the times and CEOs, And, you
• 23:55
  know, the the difference is that it's a space to be able to share those things, like, you
• 23:59
  know, if you're a beginning lawyer, and, you know, just the pressures of of just being in
• 24:04
  the legal profession, but to be able to talk of, you know, just how do you if it's corporate
• 24:09
  law or whatever and to be able to talk to someone that's maybe be doing 15, 20 percent,
• 24:14
  20 years in in, say, Washington, what an opportunity, what a gift to be able to talk
• 24:19
  about, you know, the stresses of beginning in the field period plus kind of the international
• 24:24
  element and what it means 10, 15, 20 years out with someone that's built a career.
• 24:29
  I think that would be a gift to be able to, match women like that.
• 24:33
  Absolutely.
• 24:35
  Now let's I just wanted you to I know you talk a lot about, anti fragile environment.
• 24:43
  I I just read you article that I guess it wasn't isn't the, in the economic times.
• 24:50
  Economic times.
• 24:51
  And I was quite bit about that.
• 24:53
  So I wanted to talk a little bit about that, you know, the concept of an anti fragile
• 24:59
  environment and what that means to us just Internationally, but even also what that would
• 25:05
  look like in the Middle East, with them being more emerging what are some of the things that
• 25:09
  we need to think about, which I was quite fascinated when I read the article, but I
• 25:13
  thought let me talk to your book because obviously that's kind of where you live.
• 25:16
  Yes.
• 25:17
  Yeah.
• 25:17
  Absolutely.
• 25:18
  Yeah.
• 25:18
  So anti fragile is, it's a really interesting concept, actually, and it's something that I've
• 25:23
  done a lot of research in.
• 25:24
  It's it's failing new concept, but one that makes a lot of sense to to me.
• 25:29
  And so in terms of, I I think as well, in terms of the level of disruption, that we've been
• 25:35
  experiencing as as as a world, really, as a kind of global nation, over the past couple of
• 25:43
  years with with COVID, 2020, the year 2020, apparently as well, has been a unprecedented
• 25:52
  year for global disasters.
• 25:54
  So climate change, we've had, you know, floods taking out hue whole communities.
• 26:00
  We've had bush fires.
• 26:02
  We've had earthquakes.
• 26:05
  And obviously, there's the the really awful as well.
• 26:10
  They they wore in Ukraine that happening as well at the moment and the the kind of
• 26:14
  implications that's that's that's had on on different parts of the world.
• 26:19
  And I think we can't really take for granted that that disruption's over, or I think in in
• 26:25
  other ways, what we need to do is we need to be prepared to, I guess, really be ready for the
• 26:31
  next type of of disruption that comes along.
• 26:34
  And the concept of being anti fragile is is is isn't really the opposite of being fragile.
• 26:39
  What it is is it's making sure that as an organization, that you you grow out of, the
• 26:46
  disruption that's happened to your organization and so that you're you're prepared for whatever
• 26:52
  comes along next and you're stronger because of it.
• 26:55
  So I think if we look at some of the organizations that have really suffered, over
• 27:00
  the past sort of couple of years, the airlines is is are really, probably one of the the most
• 27:06
  visible examples is if if we think about them, they are they are our true fragile
• 27:11
  organization.
• 27:12
  And, as soon as lockdown happened and travel was, you know, global travel was was frozen and
• 27:21
  and couldn't happen, the organizations couldn't move forward.
• 27:24
  They couldn't move.
• 27:25
  So they were a fragile organization.
• 27:27
  Their services were were really disrupted like that.
• 27:31
  But other organizations were able to, I think, look at what was happening and look at examples
• 27:38
  of where their organization could, I guess, really, could move forward through the
• 27:44
  disruption.
• 27:44
  So if we look at breweries, for example, so breweries obviously leisure leisure facilities
• 27:50
  will have to close, but some of the breweries were using their distilling equipment to make
• 27:55
  hands sanitizer, which was needed across the world.
• 27:58
  So they recognized that they're they identified an opportunity there to keep their business
• 28:03
  flat and keep it moving throughout this disruption.
• 28:07
  So they were anti fragile during that.
• 28:09
  And I think it's a really interesting concept for businesses to to think, okay.
• 28:14
  So if something was happened to to us again, you know, do we have enough, uncertainty within
• 28:20
  our organization in place to help to protect us and to keep us moving through this period of
• 28:26
  disruption and to come out stronger.
• 28:28
  So it's a, yeah, it's a very interesting concept.
• 28:30
  And I think it's great for organizations to really to really think about that, because it's
• 28:36
  so important if, organizations are to continue to survive and to succeed.
• 28:42
  So tell us the malleability test, like, to take as we we get out of this, you know, but how how
• 28:50
  malleable were we through the pandemic and not wait till the next big whatever, unfortunately,
• 28:56
  and we would want not want to ever believe we go through what we gone through again, but it
• 29:00
  shows us that anything's possible.
• 29:02
  So it's almost like, creating a stress test for thinking of the impossible, which truly this
• 29:10
  was an impossibility, from a of a mindset frame, and to going forward to say, you know,
• 29:16
  how is it?
• 29:17
  Like, if we were not able to, like, you know, like you and I in person, all my meet, you
• 29:22
  know, all our meetings went online.
• 29:23
  My training has went online.
• 29:25
  I have a studio now.
• 29:26
  All those things that you had to adapt to.
• 29:28
  What a a great you know, it's like a crisis management.
• 29:34
  And to and to put your company under stress test even when you don't need it.
• 29:39
  Exactly.
• 29:40
  Exactly.
• 29:41
  Absolutely.
• 29:41
  And, yeah, it's something I think which as as we kind of were just saying really, you know,
• 29:47
  that disruption, who knows, will all happen next.
• 29:49
  So I think it's really important for organizations to to consider that.
• 29:53
  Absolutely.
• 29:55
  So to think to think of that in the Middle East, let's and we're gonna wrap up, and I know
• 29:59
  I've, you know, we've probably already gone over time, Kelly, but if we were to think about
• 30:03
  that anti stress test out in the middle east with emerging female leaders.
• 30:08
  That's an edge of the wedge, but we're that's your that your program.
• 30:13
  What is what kind of things should, Middle East should be companies be thinking about with the
• 30:18
  emerging female leaders in the future.
• 30:22
  Yeah.
• 30:22
  Absolutely.
• 30:23
  So I think one of the really important and one of the key, factors for the Middle East
• 30:28
  consider, which is something again, which is is is coming in the middle east, but it's still
• 30:33
  taking a little bit of time, is flexibility.
• 30:36
  So for female leaders, it's about offering the opportunity of of flexibility within the
• 30:42
  workplace so that if there is further disruption, that female leaders can manage,
• 30:49
  their their own life as well as, working in the organization, their roles within the
• 30:54
  organization, because I think we do need to recognize that women are still trying to
• 30:57
  balance, their priorities as as as they have across the world.
• 31:03
  But the Middle East, I think, is still trying to look at how this can be implemented within
• 31:09
  the organizations.
• 31:10
  And as I said, I think the large corporations are more open to that and have actually
• 31:15
  embraced that.
• 31:16
  It's some of the smaller organizations that kinda need to to understand that that is
• 31:21
  something that they They will really need to really focus on, implementing or at least
• 31:26
  having an idea of how that could be implemented if there is disruption with their female
• 31:31
  leaders.
• 31:32
  In order for business operations to still, continue.
• 31:36
  Makes so much sense.
• 31:37
  Right?
• 31:37
  Something I think when I was in corporate 20 years ago and my son was young, it, you know, I
• 31:44
  remember the juggle that I did.
• 31:45
  And at that point, we had just gone in to the year off here in Canada.
• 31:50
  Uh-huh.
• 31:51
  Yes.
• 31:52
  But a gift I felt I got at that time.
• 31:55
  And, after that was able to go virtual, relatively quickly as a senior executive.
• 32:01
  So which was kind of we were just starting into that So just think out with the Middle East, to
• 32:09
  be able to even, introduce that concept and I think the bigger companies, of course, because
• 32:13
  they they have more ability to do that.
• 32:15
  They would be the role models for the smaller to midsize companies to kind of emulate based
• 32:20
  on, I guess, you know, looking at the bottom line truly, really, if you look at it.
• 32:24
  And I think of myself as a when I was able to do that, with a young child you know, the gifts
• 32:31
  that I was able to give back because I was so compute completely available, because my mind
• 32:37
  was clear.
• 32:38
  Raising a family and also working.
• 32:39
  So I think it's, it's definitely something that I I I believe that the Middle East will come
• 32:44
  along, but it obviously, they it'll take them a bit more time, compared to the rest of the
• 32:49
  world.
• 32:50
  This has been an Asian.
• 32:52
  Thank you so much for your time, Eddie.
• 32:53
  So first of all, for any senior leaders or people or women that are thinking, you know,
• 33:00
  I'd like to potentially join this organization because I've got this wisdom, this leg legacy
• 33:05
  piece, I think of myself, you know, at at the stage that I'm at looking to give back for
• 33:10
  companies or even women that are thinking I'm interested in wanting to know more about, what
• 33:15
  you're building, where can everybody get a hold of you?
• 33:18
  Yeah.
• 33:18
  Absolutely.
• 33:19
  So it'll be fantastic.
• 33:20
  I mean, I'm obviously on LinkedIn and, anyone can reach out to me at any time.
• 33:26
  I'm hoping also as well to be collaborating with the, Middle East, Forbes Middle East at a
• 33:34
  summit, a woman's women in power summit that they're holding in November and Riyadh.
• 33:39
  So potentially there to really showcase what we're hoping to launch.
• 33:44
  So there'd be lots of information there.
• 33:46
  But I'm just open, really, anyone who wants to reach out and have any advice.
• 33:51
  I said, I've part of experience in the region, working with organizations, kind of, going
• 33:55
  through this change and helping them to to really make some positive steps.
• 34:00
  And we're gonna be looking for some ladies actually to to join, as mentors and as as
• 34:06
  guides for women as part of the network as well.
• 34:10
  So we will be coming out and, looking for those those fantastic female leaders of which there
• 34:16
  100 and 1000 out there as well to be part of this this journey.
• 34:20
  So, yes, there should be it'll be an exciting time for all of us, I think.
• 34:25
  Busy and exciting.
• 34:26
  No doubt.
• 34:27
  I'm sure you're in the the throes of of finalizing everything if you're saying it's
• 34:31
  launching in the fall.
• 34:32
  And do let me know so that if if there's anything I can do to help you promote it, I
• 34:35
  would be more than, it's
• 34:38
  Absolutely.
• 34:39
  No.
• 34:40
  Be well.
• 34:40
  But, no, thank you so much.
• 34:41
  It's been great to to it's such a pleasure to talk to you about some of these experiences and
• 34:46
  how Saudis change is very much in my heart having lived there for for many years.
• 34:53
  Awesome.
• 34:53
  Well, and and maybe there'll be the opportunity to come to Forbes well to be able to share
• 34:58
  about this because I'm sure a lot of the CEOs at the women's executive council would be
• 35:02
  interested in it as well.
• 35:05
  Listening, like what what amazing information and for, you know, I, you know, it's a
• 35:10
  privilege to hear as, you know, We work on parody here in North American.
• 35:15
  We will continually, work on parody with women.
• 35:19
  Transformational leadership is a core fundamental that females bring with them.
• 35:23
  So, being able to expand that to different parts of the world and have not been as for is
• 35:29
  us what a gift you're giving, to the world, Kelly.
• 35:32
  So what what, what a nice place to be for you.
• 35:36
  And for everyone you know, if you're interested, please reach out to Kelly.
• 35:39
  But if you're wanting to know about authentic leaderships, whether it's at home or at work,
• 35:45
  what you can do is go to roxanderhodge.comforward/quiz.
• 35:50
  You take a really quick quiz.
• 35:51
  We give send you some feedback about where you're at and some steps to enhance things.
• 35:56
  So, you know, just do that.
• 35:58
  It won't take very long, and, we'll we'll get that back to you as soon as possible.
• 36:02
  Again, Kelly, thanks so much for your time.
• 36:04
  Everyone, I'll check you out.
• 36:06
  Please check us out again next, Thursday at 11th.
• 36:09
  Take care.
• 36:10
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 36:16
  healthy change.
• 36:17
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 36:23
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 36:27
  We'll see next time.
• 36:29
  An authentic living with Roxanne.