Latest / Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025 / Lateral Violence & Personal Experiences

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Lateral Violence & Personal Experiences · Upcoming Trial of Nathan Chasing Horse April 14, 2025

• Marina Crane: Good morning, Marina Crane from Sutuna First Nations, Canada, Calgary, Alberta. It's in the morning, it's May 11th, and the reason I'm recording so early is because ⁓ my late mother used to always say, your thoughts down first thing in the morning, like because you don't know what the day is going to bring. And again, too, I've been having some thoughts about lateral violence and just attitudes towards ⁓ I guess for me being an elder and being a heterosexual female, even the discussions with my friends about what asexuality is and how they project ⁓ things onto me, which I have to defend all the time. ⁓ Because again, too, ⁓ I'm very open-minded and a lot of my ⁓ friends or some of them aren't as open-minded. And so there's always going to be some conflict about ⁓ why I think and do or interact with certain individuals ⁓ for the process, for process and what I need to get done. Now, on March 11th, I went down to Las Vegas and I went with a ⁓ white guy. I call him Wachash to Waste. Now, Wachash to Waste, ⁓ about, I contact, he contacted me about three years ago and I'd only met him maybe, I'll say a maximum of maybe four hours and after, like I never saw him physically, like okay in physical appearance in my home, I would text him or email him ⁓ because ⁓ there were things that were happening in his life that, ⁓ like a lot of the people who initially ⁓ contacted me Like he was the initial person who, ⁓ I guess, when you're a scout and you're in an army or whatever, you send out your scouts to see if the coast is clear. Well, he was in that position. His team had sent him out. And so for whatever reason, too, he had championed the story of Nathan Chasing Horse. And I was told this by one of the members of the crew. So when things fell apart, because there were so many delays in the trial, that they published this work. And a lot of this work too, ⁓ like NBC, CBC, ⁓ American TV, like they produce their own documentaries. ⁓ I don't think they put as much effort in as they did in Canada, from my understanding from the survivors. ⁓ people who had followed Nathan for 35 years, 25 years. Those women and men who actually had to contend with a lot of lateral violence from ⁓ previous people that they knew who they broke away from supporting Nathan Chasinghorse. So there was a lot ⁓ of lateral violence they've experienced. ⁓ For me, I never had time to talk to them about it. I sort of got a bit of gist of it, which I would talk about. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. But what Chasta was there, I kept him updated with the odd text or the odd email when certain things would happen with the trial. I thought, for some reason, he really fought for this story. And the fact that things happened to him, ⁓ I just thought, I hope he's not paying the price for ⁓ trying to advocate. trying to bear witness to ⁓ the intergenerational trauma of Indian residential school, the TRC in Canada is what they call it, truth and reconciliation. ⁓ But I, and it wasn't like I felt guilty. I just felt like there was some sort of vindication in the sense that I had, for decades had talked and warned people about Nathan chasing horse. So I had some empathy for Wachash to Ashtey because here he is saying this is a good story. This is what's happening. And yet all the cohorts and allies, didn't pick it up. APTN didn't pick it up. ⁓ A few newspapers, newspapers picked it up, but from the point of view of, the American media, not Canadian. Because again, to... He has been charged in Canada, but the whole justice system up here hasn't even tackled anything that what was being done in the United States. And again, there were a lot of things that I had talked to you about with Wachastow-Esteve when it came to lateral violence within my own family. Again, I have to reiterate here, much of how my family treats me isn't something that just happened with Nathan Chasinghorse. They've treated me this way even before Nathan Chasing Horse. You can ask my high school friends or just people who've known me my entire life and they'll validate what I'm saying. So anything to do with lateral violence towards me is not just focused around Nathan Chasing Horse. However, this being said, this is what I want to clarify. Because the majority of people ⁓ wanted to focus on Nathan Chasing Horse, A lot of them I've just thrown by the sidelines and said, this is it. I don't want to be associated with these women. It's very harsh in what they did. And in my podcast, I previous podcasts, I have talked at length about it, but what Josh, which day anyway, he, you know, I kept him on top of everything. And then when the, when the trial was happening to even like for me, uh, in 2025, I booked a flight. hotel room, had a companion that was going to come with me. That was cancelled. I lost all that money. Then on March 11th, ⁓ I told him I was going and he said he was going to accompany me and that if it would be okay if he took pictures. And I said, sure. mean, let me put it this way. My whole life, I don't have pictures of myself because I just detest having pictures of myself. So you understand. Why would I let Vachashtava shteyate pictures of me? Well, I thought, I don't know what kind of life he's lived because of what he's, it was basically a sacrifice. saw it like he, you he stuck his neck out to just get this story going. I mean, even though there were a whole bunch of other team members working on it, I think he took the brunt of it. So I just thought, if I can pay him back somehow and this will help him, then okay. Because I just, don't like pictures of myself. And you got to understand the deep psychology of it is like when I was a child at the Calgary Stampede and I had tourists taking pictures of me, I just detested it because they'd throw money, here little Indian girl. You know, it just irked me because, you know, here I am, I have white friends and, you know, they don't get treated like that. So I just didn't like my pictures taken. And again, too, A lot of times when people took pictures, thought that they were taking their soul or their spirit. So I just avoided it. But then when I had to appear on national TV, I just thought, OK, bite the bullet. You did it. ⁓ Do your podcast. Did some video, took pictures. I'm going, ⁓ I can't do this. But I did it. And I'm doing it. You know, it still irritates me. That's why most of my podcasts that you're listening to, you're not actually seeing me. Okay, that being said, I didn't know, you know, the outcome or what was going to happen. just thought, okay, didn't even think the whole process. Because when we got to Las Vegas, the mom and daughter, the mom who I'd met 20 years ago, who ⁓ had had to mansplain me about what it is to be a Sioux woman, from a woman who'd never lived on her reservation, who never knew her indigenous parents, nothing had to mansplain me about what it is to be Dakota or Lakota. When my mother and my grandfather and my uncles could read and write in Dakota. And I've grown up my whole life around my grandparents, like my Sioux relatives. It's amazing. the arrogance of people who have never, you know, when I was ⁓ told, when I had a conversation with ⁓ one of what Joshua says, one of like the, ⁓ where we had a conversation and ⁓ the question from, ⁓ in our meeting from, the question was about matriarchy because this matriarch was saying, I have, You know, she's not really a matriarch. She grew up in a patriarchal system. And I said to her, you have to be born and raised in it. And that's the thing that I think that I struggle with in my podcast is for people to understand that this woman from 20 years ago who was raised ⁓ in foster homes and never knew her indigenous culture or ways of knowing, was mansplaying me. Pretending to be indigenous and yes, she has indigenous blood but ⁓ Understanding matriarchy she didn't if she did she would have seen all the red flags or flags around Nathan chasing horse Okay, so ⁓ lateral violence I Told what chastewishteh I said I'm a bit hesitant because this woman's gonna be there and her daughter I said throughout since Nathan chasing horse has been arrested Any comments that I've made on this woman's arrogance when I first met her has been defended by her daughter. Her daughter keeps on defending her mother. I mean, this was a she was an eight year old child that her mother had delivered to Nathan chasing horse, who had told me that Nathan had wanted to groom her and protect her as a holy woman so she could conduct ceremonies and rituals and under and have the protection of his entourage. so that she would learn what it is to be a holy woman. Now, again, I said, what the hell? A lot of these women bought into the fact that there was a reincarnation of white Buffalo calf woman. Now, how bizarre is this? know, indigenous people in genocide for hundreds of years, you know, I always say like the first hundred years they killed five generations of our children. How much of that has... of our narratives have been robbed and stolen and how much of it have we adopted just to hold on to our culture? See for me in my opinion, this is just my opinion. White Buffalo calf woman came 500 years ago. She's not here today. So any bullshit that Nathan Chasing Horse put out there to his followers that these young children, like especially this woman's daughter, was the reincarnation of white buffalo calf woman and that she's gonna come to earth and all this prophecy was gonna come true. I'm going, this is just a bunch of bullshit. You know, the whole premise of White Buffalo Calf Woman was to warn us, to warn us of things that were gonna happen. Yes, and it happened 500 years ago. Like who was the white who was the white buffalo? What did the white buffalo represent? and prepare us with all ceremonies so that our children and our grandchildren for 500 years could survive to this day. Yeah, no, White Buckle Calf Woman came hundreds of years before the colonizers came. So anybody trying to ⁓ repatriate or try and incorporate something that has already happened, in my opinion. See, even the Mormon Church, too, has talked about a Lamanite, which is a Native American, was eventually because, again, too, it's a cult. Just like Nathan Chasing Horse's cult. always trying, even Moral Re-Arnament, always trying to promote Native American people as having some hidden power or prophecy. Again, why the hell create that when you damn well killed five generations of our children, that's a hundred million people with the first five, first 100 years of colonization. And today we're still, our children are still being killed and our women are being murdered and missing in traffic. So you tell me that prophecy happened 500 years ago and we're still living in the aftermath of it. So wake up when you have Mormon church saying, ⁓ Latter-day Saint, one day there's going to be a Native American who's going to be the prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ all over the world. The same thing, same ⁓ BS bullshit from moral rearmament. ⁓ you have the answer, absolute honesty, absolute purity, absolute unselfishness. all based on the premises of Alcoholics Anonymous. So of course, when Nathan Chasing Horse comes in and starts talking about empowering kids because he's playing the role of a youth worker. He's playing a role to a lot of people who have never had a connection with their communities, either they've been adopted, like all the thousands of children who were taken into Indian residential schools. All of them searching for an identity and something positive about what it is to be Indigenous. Especially women. Especially women who have been prostituted. When I grew up, I knew and heard stories about prostitution. I mean, you ask any Canadian, white, Indigenous, for the past 50, 60 years, even 60 years ago, it was notorious, the conversations that would come out about the city of Regina, Saskatchewan. Major... prostitution hub of Native American women. Even when people come into the Calgary Stampede, just the oil rigors and, you man, like all these man camps coming in for R &R. And even today, the amount of prostitutions and broken marriages that come in when you have the Calgary Stampede, you can say that even to about the Super Bowl or anything. It's prevalent. It's there. But for me, ⁓ when Nathan Chasinghorst tries to ⁓ reuse dogma against people who either have been ashamed to be Indigenous or don't understand that there's some great mystery out there. And I briefly talk about it in the sense that my parents traveled to South American India. If it hadn't come from their own mouths, not from white people, but my parents' own mouths about what they saw, the hunger, the begging of children begging. ⁓ Just the reality of how bad the world was in the 60s. And it's worse today. We've got 8 billion people in this planet. you know, the reality of like, you know, creating a false narrative or a false profit so somebody could make money. This Nathan chasing horse did horrific things for money and his followers blindly followed him. Blindly followed. Okay, so let me get back to like again, ⁓ you know, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just stating the reality. We're all susceptible to people who ⁓ want something from us. And again, as old as I am, I'm still learning this. I've had to put boundaries down after I came back from Las Vegas. Now, Vachashua Shtey, like I said, he came down. I had warned him that I said, I don't think I'm going to get a good welcoming from this woman that I'd met 20 years ago or her daughter who was the main character or the main victim of Nathan Chasing Horse. she had defended her mother and she still continues to defend her mother. And the two of them are quite, you know, like they really ⁓ are angry women. And rightfully so. I mean, I don't blame them. They've got a lot of healing to do. However, I was a bit hesitant. if Wachashua Shtey hadn't come with me, I am quite sure they would have attacked me verbally. They would have... probably gone to the victim services in the courtroom and they would have said to them that they didn't want me present. They would have negotiated with the victim services in the court and said, we don't want Marina Crane to attend the sentencing. And on April 27th, they would have even carried it over and would have challenged them, why is Marina Crane here? Because that's always been the burning question for anybody who I trigger. ⁓ Like understand this I started this blog 20 years ago Only because I've seen people like this mom and this daughter and not only that like I said within my own family So so, know, this isn't nothing new to me. So my explained to which I wish day was that ⁓ Like I'm I'm a bit ⁓ hesitant somebody could verbally attack me but on the contrary ⁓ the the victims came and hugged me and thanked me for my blog, except for the mom and daughter. During this whole process, I want you to understand, not once did they talk to me, they knew who I was, not once did they come up to me, nothing, because they saw me being associated with the other group of survivors. I had been basically adopted by the other group on March 11th and April 27th. And for me, what Joshua was saying, because he was taking pictures of me, ⁓ and he had permission to take pictures within the courtroom. ⁓ I think because they just assumed that because if they said anything, it could make public news. And again, I in hindsight, I didn't get it. I did not get it until like, like I said, I'm putting this podcast out there because my reality, wasn't really like I sort of knew that they didn't like me. But I didn't understand it. I was looking at the other women like Elsa and Lynette and Sierra and just the way that those, the mom and daughter were ⁓ projecting all this anger towards them. It amazed me because with Joshua Shtey, like on March 11th, he sort of heard some of that. He sort of heard like, ⁓ you know, the victim services is calling saying the daughter and the mom are saying they didn't want one of. like they didn't want one of the women to ever come back to the courthouse. And again, you know, why are they doing this? For publicity or for empowerment or just lateral violence? And then even on the 27th after he was sentenced, Wachashta Wastey and myself went downstairs. But yet, while they were still upstairs, there was a big conflict between the mom and daughter and the rest of the survivors. Again, lateral violence, they're all there to say their stories about what Nathan Chasing Horse did to them, but it's the mental health, the lateral violence of anger and misdirected. And I know, and I just want to say this in my podcast is that Wachash to Wachde, even though ⁓ he wasn't there as a job or anything, he was just there for his own closure. Okay, and I'm grateful he was there on March 11th, because I didn't know how to Uber or any of this because I haven't traveled to Las Vegas in 15 years and he'd never been to Las Vegas. So this was a whole new adventure for both of us. At the same time, I hadn't met ⁓ like Lynette, Sierra, Thomas, Adrian and Elsa. Okay, I had hoped to meet like my grandson down there and some other people that I knew, but time was so limited on both visits that I went to. So. ⁓ Now, what does this have to do in the long run about lateral violence? See, the first time we went down on March 11th, I didn't tell my family, I didn't tell anybody in my community I was going. ⁓ You know, because this was just my own personal, like I'm going to do this because I started this blog 20 years ago. I wanted to clarify to my narrative to the survivors, because I didn't know any of whatever lies had been said about me. Because ⁓ Nathan Chasing Horse had discredited me for decades. You know, had claimed that he had ⁓ emails from me chasing him, my trying to seduce him, my trying to be one of his wives. You name it. Like whatever dirt he could drag me through, he created that narrative. And the reality is like the validation from from the women who said, yes, Marina, we were drinking the Kool-Aid and we didn't know. And that's what's so poignant about it is like consistently, at least I was able to communicate with some of them throughout the years to validate like what was happening. And I had to also put some clarity in with my niece, like they only knew one part of my niece's story and my family's story. ⁓ My going down on March 11th made, you know, I clarified some things that were happening that they hadn't even seen when it comes to high-risk teenagers, especially my niece. The reality of it too is like even knowing that I was intimidating to him and that for years he would always make sure that people wouldn't read my blog. I mean, to the point where, ⁓ like Lynette, ⁓ she'd known him since she was 14. And she even came up to Sue Tina to see me, to look at me, because ⁓ she just thought I was, know, her and I joke about it. I said, yeah, I should go into the courtroom with my hair dyed blonde or wear blue makeup and really red lipstick and false ⁓ fingernails. Like, just look risque. I said, because that's how he painted me. And she said, yes, I came up and. One of the ladies who had left the group from Soutinas said, there's Marina Crane and Lynette says, looked to see where she was pointing. I looked and I saw you. She says, Marina, you're a grandma. said, of course. I said, what do you think in my blog? kept on defending myself. I said, how many of these women believed Nathan chasing horses bullshit about me? Yes, I'm a heterosexual woman. Yes, I can't turn off my libido. but that doesn't give you the right to create this false narrative that I've been like that I have the, can't trust this old horny woman. And she said, I said to her, when we go into the sentencing, it was on March 11th, I'll dress up. I said, cause that's what he, you know, has painted this portrait of me. And we laughed, but the reality of it is like it really hurt for 20 years, it hurt. And I said to Jelena, I said, I felt it. I felt it from the lateral violence from people. A lot of people who read my blog didn't even comment. Some did send me emails. Some text me. Some even called me. And some of them I'll never see or hear from ever. But it was like even with my podcast, ⁓ the reality of like my putting it out there in the world. I know ⁓ since I've started publishing and putting things differently. It's been going all over the world and for whatever reason and for however people want or are curious about Native Americans and cults and just the whole dynamics of it. Like I said, do whatever the hell you want to do with it. The reality is we're suffering. Our women and our children are suffering and we're going missing and murdered. like we'll scream until you up the yin yang and still, still people would say, ⁓ it's not my problem. Well, excuse me, we're human beings. If it's one human beings problem, it's every human beings problem. If anything, I've been open-minded about it and I try to create this narrative within my own culture, within my own system. So for me, Wachasta was being present. Understand this like I said ⁓ the only time I ever traveled with a white man was coming back from Utah on a car He hated me so much he ⁓ Non-stop we go through Idaho and he hits a deer doesn't even stop to check his car So when Wachashita was stay said he was gonna come with me. I didn't relate this story to him I just thought okay. He's gonna take pictures. I am a bit offended but hey ⁓ You know, ⁓ he, for whatever reason, he's been fighting and promoting ⁓ and wanting exposure of Nathan Chasing Horse. ⁓ That's the least I could do. The least I could do would be to have him accompany me so I could meet ⁓ all these other people. And and find some closure with them as well because they they didn't know the whole story They only knew what they were living through what they had been doing around him and what he had done to them Because Lynette said she says Marina she says I grew up with him like even in her victim statement on YouTube It wasn't until her daughter almost died, you know, she said to me I believed you but it took my daughter almost dying So that's how much I drank the Kool-Aid. See, that's the reality. It takes somebody dying or someone almost dying for people to believe how dangerous Nathan chasing horses, or for that matter, how dangerous other people are when it comes to your children. ⁓ I always say, trust nobody with your children. That's the good premise because you have to, you have to. You don't know. Our human brains are so powerful in what we want to cover up or what we want to think or how we want to not see things. Like I said, ⁓ when I went down the first time, I didn't tell people I was going. Once I got down there, I put it on Facebook and bang, within the evening, people were saying, ⁓ you're in Las Vegas. You're getting phone calls. People were curious. I didn't want that. That's why I didn't tell anybody. When I came back, two acquaintances, ⁓ Marina, you didn't tell me. No, I didn't tell them. Now, even the second time when I went down, at least I told my family this time that I was going down. I didn't tell other people in my community I was going. And even then too, on the 11th, when I last saw Wachash to Wachde, he says, well, ⁓ you know, we'll probably meet on live stream. Because it's expensive to travel to Las Vegas and even to the other ⁓ groups like from ⁓ California, Montana, ⁓ New Mexico, Arizona, even people who were actually living in Las Vegas, the money to even come and attend, they didn't show up on April the 27th because it's too expensive. However, they did meet on a Zoom conference afterwards. ⁓ as a group and discussed the outcome. It was a way of celebrating. And for me, on the 11th, when I saw Sierra come out of that courthouse crying, it broke my heart because I thought, this young woman, how long has she been in pain? How long has she endured trying to get justice for herself? So I had an opportunity to have some extra money and I I text Wachash to Wachde saying, I've changed my mind. I'm not going to watch it on ⁓ live stream. I'm going to go down there. I'm going to go down there and help these people, help these women understand this is a celebration. It isn't a time to be grieving. You've done all the grieving. You've done all the hard work. Now it's time to celebrate. For me, it was a point of me being there to let them know that what they've accomplished is something great and marvelous. for their own personal life, their own personal way of thinking. So Wachash to Wachde, you know, I just said, well, I already said my goodbyes to him on March 11th and he texts back and he says, well, I'm going to be there. And that was about the last of the ⁓ communication I had with him. He did email me and I did email him, but ⁓ like I said, are we going to meet on Sunday? He said, yes, and that was it. Because again, you I had no expectation about what he was planning to do because I already had I thought like he did enough on March 11th now that being said even when I came back on the 27th and again, I got you know some like just the way ⁓ People had text me about going you know, I It amazes me that no matter how clear I am on why I wanted to go and witness him being sentenced, was totally lost and completely dismissed by people who I talked. It's like my talking on this podcast, trying to explain and have you understand my reasoning and how I process things. This was closure over 20 years of my defending myself about my sexuality, that yes, I'm a heterosexual. Nathan Chasinghors had portrayed himself as a youth worker, even to the point where I had contacted the women who had had children with him prior to 2006, two of them, and how they had believed me. See, That's what's so empowering is like they had children with him. They knew he was a danger to their children. They requested that I not publish their names or their children. And I've done that. Now, the women who were actually following Nathan on the 27th, asked how many other children has he had? I said, I know he had 10 by 2006. I know like how the women had pursued child support. you know, like from 60,000 to 250,000 dollars in child support and just the whole network of how he evaded and how he used all the people to get money to pay for his own stuff. And they said there was just so much, the morning after pill abortions. Like right now there are victims who are suing casinos in Las Vegas for trafficking because They had told them that Nathan was trafficking out of their casinos and they did nothing. So I'm hoping some of the victims could get money. Like, like really, Sue them in civil court in Canada. That's what we do. We have victim services where they get some money, but we also have socialized medicine and we have truth and reconciliation to help with therapy. But in the United States, they don't. And that's why I like for me, the mom and daughter who were instrumental, like I said, he, got ⁓ life and 25 years to seek parole from one of his victims. ⁓ They need help. They need help with therapy and a lifetime of healing. I can talk about my own journey as a 74-year-old elder and just the discussions on how I dissect my life in decades. and how I have to explain what healthy human sexuality is. You know, people, ⁓ these women are going to, they're going to need a lot of support. ⁓ Whatever I do in my podcast is to shine light on the differences between the United States and Canada. I can't even comprehend how lost they must feel and how they project that anger onto anybody or everyone who's out there to help them. of lateral violence, that's what I was afraid of. ⁓ Like I said, if Wachash to Wachatea hadn't been there the two times in the courtroom, I am pretty sure they would have ⁓ made it really difficult for me. And yet I went down by myself. Like if I had gone down by myself without ⁓ Wachash to Wachatea, this is a white man. Okay, would it have been different if he was indigenous? Yes. Would it have been different if he didn't have a camera? Yes. The fact that they just assumed he was there working and that, you know, they had to be careful about what they said in front of me. Like really, until now I didn't get the total impact. My whole journey would have been completely negative or I would have had a totally different outcome on lateral violence. But I still had to pay for it. Because even when I came back and the women who I had hoped were there to support me, who understood my narrative, turned against me. Either out of jealousy or just the fact that they just could not have an open mind about things. And I've explained it in my podcast. ⁓ I realized, yes, I'm alone and lonely, and I basically am becoming addicted to my podcast. But the reality of it is my story ⁓ affects everybody. I talked to at various conferences, and some young Indigenous women would come up and say, ⁓ my mother lived through that, too. Like how many Indigenous women have been fighting and advocating against lateral violence and sexual assaults and murdered and missing Indigenous women? How many women have been advocating and have been up against lateral violence from their own families, their own sisters, their own communities? Whatever projection other people have on people like myself. So you understand like My community is my community. Only my community can heal itself. When I go in, when I'm invited into the city to talk about truth and reconciliation, or what it means to be like for an immigrant to come into Canada, what is a systemic racism, even like dealing with Indian Residential School Memorial, like all these things, when somebody invites me and they give me tobacco to pray and start the meeting. It's gotten to the point where I have to say to the hosts, you've got to protect me. When I start talking about my truth, and I've had this happen, when I've talked about Nathan Chasinghorse in public, I've had women get upset and walk out the room. I've had, and even not just that, but just voicing my opinion on something that has to do with violence against Indigenous people. I've had young people so angry they project it onto me. I don't even know them. And that's the key. I've noticed they do this to elder Indigenous women who appear to be single. They won't do it to an elderly Indigenous woman who still has their husband sitting next to them. And you won't see that happen for an elderly Indigenous man when he is given tobacco to So the whole thing for me is a lesson learned. When somebody invites me, I have to say to the host, you've got to protect me. I don't need misogyny. I don't need this lateral violence protected on me. I'll stand my ground and I'll cry as I've done before. But you know, I love my parents. I love my grandparents. I love my relatives. They don't face what I face today because they weren't allowed to talk about it. But for me, when I give myself permission to talk about it and when it triggers people, I'm the one that's holding that space. And if there's an ally or cohort to be there witnessing it and be there to support me, I'll take it. That's being open-minded. And what I just wish to say did that for me. ⁓ I gifted him ⁓ a gift too. And I said, this is to represent you being a witness as in truth and reconciliation. You are now responsible and are guided to advocate for all this intergenerational trauma that is real. It's not something pretending. It's not a fairy tale. It's not some mystique about, you know, somebody being over the reincarnation of white buffalo calf woman, or that the latter-day prophet is going to run the head of a church in North America and all over the world. You know, haven't colonizers taken so much from us that they've had to create a narrative to sort of justify all the killings that we're going through? All the hypocrisy of ⁓ well, we're humans. We are good people. No, no, we're not. The world wouldn't be in the mess that it is today. And that's just the reality of it. I'm grateful that what I did 20 years ago, ⁓ I didn't understand ⁓ how it was going to shape my life today. I'm grateful in the sense that, ⁓ you know, I can give advice to young women. Like one of my previous two podcasts, we're talking with a mom and daughter where the mom wanted to leave her ⁓ husband who was notorious, ⁓ like just sleeping around on her and she'd had enough. And, you know, my conversation was with her was like, I've had that my whole life. I've had, I've, in my community, if a woman comes up to me and her husband sees her come up to me, he'll come up and confront me. Not even knowing why his wife is talking to me. He just assumes I'm going to talk to her out of leaving him because he's abusive. I have no say over it, but they just project that onto me. And again, because I chose not to be in such a relationship. And I tried to validate with some women who are very close-minded about human sexuality. And I said, oh well, it was just, it went down because it was his job. And I said, no, it wasn't. I said, he was having, he was finding closure just like me. Well, he had to be there. I'm going, no, he didn't. I said, I invited you to come with me too, but you didn't. I said, all these people that I had hoped would come with me. ⁓ since the time Nathan Chasinghose was arrested, I said, you know, the invitation was open but nobody came. I didn't invite Vachashto Vashtey to come, he just chose to come. I said, that's just the nature of it. Even that, they could not justify why he would come with me. And I said, whatever feelings I have for him, I said, you got to understand this. This is basic psychology 101, asexuality, heterosexuality. Psychology 101. The instructor says to the class, a person can think about having sex with a child. And that's just a thought. Like every day life you see somebody, a good looking person, you say, I'd like, I wonder what it would be like to have sex with that person. But it's just a thought. You know, again, Psychology 101, the instructor says, yes, it's a thought. However, when the person becomes obsessive with that thought and they act on it, see, that's the whole point too in my podcast when I talk about limerence. And I talk about fawning. See, it's when the thought becomes an obsession, or the thought becomes something like the fawning or the manipulation or the actual, ⁓ like there's some energy put into a plot, a narrative, ⁓ that something like some narcissistic Machiavellian plot. Again, when 20 years ago, Nathan Chasing Horse, and again, he was 30. So you've got to understand this. His narrative had to have started even 10 years prior. 10 years prior when he was 20, even probably earlier. Because by the time, because like when he was 30, he was deliberately scaring children who were in the ceremonies by hitting them over the head with a rattle. That's how he was grooming them, indoctrinating them. Now, again, it's somebody having a thought of having sex with a child. Because if the narrative is that you're not sexually aroused and that the only thing that sexually arouses you is to scare a child, or like for that matter, say you're a heterosexual woman and your husband ⁓ gets off by beating the bejesus out of you and he gets sexually charged. and you continually stay in that abusive relationship. Well, you know, look at it this way. When Nathan Chasing Horse decided to act on his thoughts, his fantasy, his narrative, ⁓ his narcissistic or his ⁓ glimmerance or fawning, whatever the hell you call it in psychology, it became something that was unforgivable because he was hurting children. And so with the heterosexual sexuality when it comes to male or female, we can shut off that libido. Like I said to my relative, you know, when you're talking to me about wachashtawashteya, I said, you're talking about my libido. I said, when you think, I said, look at it this way. you turn off your menstrual period every month? I said, so when you're talking to me about my feelings, I can't turn them off just like I can't turn off. when I was having my period, I couldn't turn it off and on. I have to feel it. I said, so I have the thought, but it doesn't mean I'm going to act on it. I said, when you're talking to me as if I'm going to act on it, that's saying I have no say or no power or control over my libido or my thoughts of what I can or cannot feel. Again, that's what they call infantilization. like trying to make the female still remain a child forever, like Peter Pan. See, that's what closed-mindedness is. And so for me, ⁓ having narratives about healthy human sexuality and understanding the narrative of thought and the power behind a thought, that yes, every human being can look at another human being. They have to put boundaries down. I have a relationship. I'm not available. That's fine. Doesn't mean their sexual responses in the brain is shut off. It's just saying they have boundaries. That's what boundaries are. I'm even trying to explain this to women who are grandparents, okay? Because again, when a woman has been cheated on and all they've ever known, like my cousin says, we're at the bottom of the barrel, Marina. There is no good man out there. And I said, yes, there are. There are good men out there. Like what Shastra was saying, he's a good man. I said, you just have to have your spidey senses open. See, again, where does it constitute that finding a good man means you're going to be in a relationship or be sexually active with them? See, ⁓ I think sometimes ⁓ women are so hurt and just don't want to engage or feel that feeling. ⁓ They shut down, they close their minds to engaging with good men. Or say the same sense with men having a conversation with a good woman. You know, I see it all the time in both young Indigenous women and young Indigenous men who have issues with me, a total stranger. They don't know me, but yet they hate me. They project that hatred on me because they have issues either with their grandmother, their mother, their daughter, their daughters, their sisters, you name it. They project that on me and they should have some sort of training to realize like you cannot be doing this all the time. to your own people. That's what lateral violence is. And I call it out. I'm being assertive. Why not? I had to give up two friends. I had to give up two friends. And I said to my cousin, because she was saying, oh, well, Marina, you went down there because of Nathan Chasinghorses. I said, no, I didn't. I went down there because I was a victim of violence. My niece was a victim of violence. All these women were a victim of violence. I'm there as a victim. I said, I haven't even talked. My conversation with Nathan Chasinghorse, to count the hours? No, I didn't know him for 35 years or 25 years. I just knew him for a few days, a few months. That's it. But it was enough damage what he did in my community and within my own family that it still has that ripple effect. I'm still living with the lateral violence of it within my community and how they project what I'm doing, having nothing to do with being a victim, but everything to do being obsessed with Nathan chasing horse, which is a total false narrative. But again, too, I can't change the way they think. That's just part of their coping mechanism. But the reality of it is like. ⁓ my goodness, there's no way I can communicate with them because they're so fixed on it. Like I said to my cousin, said I didn't let nobody know I was going to Las Vegas on March the 11th. I said, yet one of the ladies ⁓ got a hint that I was with a Wachash to Wachde. Somebody who could have easily called me and said, ⁓ you were with Wachash to Wachde. How did you meet him? What did you do? No. Instead, she sent me a very hurtful ⁓ comment, like really slanderous. And I thought, why did she send me this? And I realized, well, can't. I can't handle this. can't be treated like this. All she had to do was just ask me if I'd gone with anybody to Las Vegas. She knew. She knew I'd gone with somebody. And so I just decided not to answer her text or email. because she was the one who started it. She could have easily contacted the police, Facebook, and charged this person for what they were saying about me. But she didn't. So what kind of friend is that? somebody who wanted to hurt me because I didn't confide in her about who came with me to Las Vegas. Especially when it... Would it have been different if it was a female that came with me instead of a male? And on top of that, a white male? Like really, lateral violence projecting it towards me had nothing to do with, you know, like, ⁓ like we'll call it Disneyland, you know, princess and all this like happily ever after and all that stuff. take that narrative away. That's a Nathan Chasemore's narrative. The reality is I went down there to support the victims. And then for the other woman after I came back from Las Vegas the second time and just the fact that ⁓ She just thought I went down again to see Nathan Chasing, where I was no, no, I'm there to support the victims. Oh, well, it's good you made friends. Like, excuse me. You know, when her relative came to me, a 15 year old wanting advice on how to report, how to document, how to hand in the information to the Superintendent of Tribal Police, I was there. This young woman had the guts to do what she did. She didn't follow him as a cult. She stood her ground, bless her heart. she, like whatever he took from her, at least she's feeling it and telling the world this is what he did to me. Just like all the victims that stood up in that courtroom. And that's what I said to Lynette and Sierra. There are so many other victims out there that he's hurt and some of them have died like my niece. You know, know one lady who was in and out of state hospital in Montana because for five years she tried to kill herself. know, mental health and support and lateral violence, you know, when our young people need it and we have a predator like that and have predators like that, even females. So that's why I say don't trust anybody with your child. You'd never know. And again, because I'm single and I've never been married or have children, I'm always being ⁓ labeled as being a predator and a pedophile. I don't know what the logic is in it. Or I'm always chasing some man to ⁓ validate that I'm a heterosexual female. Like, I'm going, no, understand your own sexuality. Understand you have choices. That's why, for me, whatever I can do to educate people about the difference between men and women and how as women especially Indigenous women, how we need to educate our young girls, the pressure to, because we live in poverty, the pressure to just be complacent and comply and fawn over men because we don't want to create any ripple effect or violence towards ourselves or our families. We were trying to protect them. mean, when the RCMP... stood up in front of the court and told the judge that they had interviewed so many women on Sioux Tina who had been victims of these serial rapists and that they refused to come forward. That had a big impact on how he saw my perpetrator. But again too, why didn't they get involved? They were fawning maybe because they didn't want to cause any problems, maybe because the leadership was supporting these predators. Because understand, Nathan Chasing Horse thrived here in Sioux, Dinna for 20 years. Our former chief who's been charged with two historical sexual assaults, know, some of the leadership went in and demanded that the nation pay for the rent of the children who he took. And for years, they paid the rent. Anybody who supported Nathan Chasing Horse in Las Vegas got financial help from this leadership. Why? Because, you know, this leader had a weakness to validate, you know, whatever any any charlatan would come around and, you know, make statements and he'd buy into it. I really think it has to do with identity. Like I said, you've to be born and raised in it. That that born and raised in it means you're not ashamed. There's no shame in being indigenous. That's why I said my mother used to say never give up. and my grandmothers and her and my great grandmothers just just the the reality of what what settlers did to the Sioux women like I said they hunted down pregnant Sioux women gutted them again if it's disturbing I'm sorry but this is the reality of how proud I am to be Sioux Dina and and Sioux to know the history of what my the women in my culture had to do to just survive and also to have bare children and to raise those children, not to ever give up. know, like they created a little town in South Dakota just to collect scalps and their prize pieces were pregnant women and unborn babies. Even the whole ⁓ Cowboys and Indians, all the caravans, know, all the propaganda like ⁓ canvas paintings of savages and justifying stealing land and all this religious dogma. This is historical. This isn't something that has stopped. It still goes on because our young people, ⁓ we don't have sovereignty over how we take care of our children. When a woman has five kids, has nobody to support them, she dies. they are immediately shipped into foster care in the city, like every community in Canada. And the majority, the average age for children being trafficked is 14. Now, if it really scares you about what trafficking is, look it up. When they first initiate those children, it's like at least four days of constant attacks for hours. just ⁓ what they call it, they just keep on having sex with a person. Their bodies heat up. Their bodies heat up after so many days. These people just come in and do this to these children. And then after what, the fifth day maybe, their bodies are so hot they just throw them in a room, keep them in the room until the temperature of their body goes down. And if they survive, their temperature goes normal. But if they don't, they'd end up dead. They'd end up one of the murdered and missing Indigenous people. And if they survive, then that means their bodies are equipped to have so many sexual partners every day from that time on. So yes, there is a crisis happening. And it has to do with the way people think and the way people look at Indigenous people. There's a false narrative out there that people just want to gravitate to. And they'll use whatever means to make money. I'm just grateful that I met the survivors of Nathan Chasing Horse. I'm grateful that a lot of the things that we have in common, ⁓ I have no worries about anything that they don't realize. Things that I know about certain spiritual people in North America, they know. I mean, to have gone through what they've gone through and for them to be empowered and to network more power to them, more power to their narrative and what they're going to come out with and what they're going to be exposing and for the ripple effect within Indigenous communities. Because people didn't gravitate to Nathan Chasing Horse because he was a movie star, a childhood movie star who was washed up at 30. No, they gravitated to him because he was using spirituality, that false narrative of like white buffalo calf woman. Like I said, in my opinion, she came 500 years ago. But he plays this narrative, dresses up these children as white buffalo calf woman in the Sundance with these older... supporters grooming them and saying to them be pure like with mra and absolute honesty absolute purity absolute unselfishness even with mormonism and their ⁓ infantilization that whole gambit of cult-like thinking And the older women taking those children as they're being groomed to be white buffalo calf women, the symbolism behind it, grooming them so that when the Sundance is over, Nathan could have his way with these children, these girls, every time he had Sundance. And again, too, how many of his followers were ex-Mormon who thought like, okay, the Mormon Church isn't going to ever allow an indigenous prophet? We'll make our own profit. This is Nathan Chasing Horse. So yes, think about what it is and what I'm talking about and think, ⁓ this is, she's just telling a lie. She's just jealous or she's just projecting her hate. No, no, no, no. This is the reality of what it is to be so naive and vulnerable when it comes to wanting to believe in something that has to make sure that has to deal with the fact that you're ashamed to be Indigenous. This former chief that we had, I grew up with him. In high school, when people would ask him if he was indigenous, he'd say, no, he was Mexican. See, when my mother says never give up, and same with my dad, it's because they know. To give up would be to not even fight. They fought. If they didn't fight, they wouldn't have had children. If they didn't love their families and understood our ways of thinking, they wouldn't have had children. So for me, the lifestyle that I chose and what I try to do and educate people about being open-minded. There's so many ⁓ pretendians or people out there who are ashamed to be indigenous at some point in their life. or they're just coming to terms with, you know, ⁓ their own upbringing, which is okay. I mean, as long as you're out there advocating, who am I to say? I have my own voice. ⁓ It's no different than anybody else's. But ⁓ I'm just grateful that I did witness what I witnessed in Las Vegas and just the repercussions of how people responded to me afterwards within my own community. It's the reality. It is the hardcore reality. And whatever I say or do, when it has to do with victim of violence. Support them. You don't know what they went through. You don't even know what they're going through every day of their lives. So many people choose to end their lives because it's so hard and so painful. Every day of my life, like I said, the reality is I'm never alone. But to have your identity attacked so bitterly that you truly believe you're alone and you just have to leave this world. No, you know, the main core and the understanding of how powerful our minds are that we can. the balance of it is like either being creative or destructive. there's always a fine balance. And the thing is like in doing this balancing act, it means you have to be open-minded to all people, to have ⁓ communication and discourse with all people. I'm just grateful that ⁓ Vajashtra Vakha, however his life, is and whatever he's going to do and the challenges that he has in his life, the dedication he has in finding closure with what he needed to have closure with with this story. Like he wasn't writing a story when he went to the sentencing. He did this for his own healing, for his own closure. And for him ⁓ trusting me and me trusting him, like That's what we're all about, helping each other. So I wanted to put it out there because it's such a hard concept for me to talk to other Indigenous women about not shutting down. I say use your spidey senses. There are good people out there. I mean good people, just because you find a good person doesn't mean you're going to have a relationship, like a sexual relationship with them. Like there's so many... people out there. Like I said, I've got the traveling bug now. You know, the people I've met ⁓ driving on like with driving me around on Uber, you know, sitting next to them at a restaurant like next to them on an airplane, whatever. I have the traveling bug and I totally forgot about it because I took care of my late mother for over a decade. And I said to my cousin, who would have done it? Who would have taken care of my mother? ⁓ Now, as old as I am and whatever time I have left and however many podcasts I do publish, I'm really hoping that I do get my message across that it is important to be open-minded. Don't shut down your feelings and if you're afraid to share your feelings, find out why and have the courage to confront your fears. have a good day and I'm just grateful. I'm truly grateful for the fact that I did a podcast 20 years ago and that I'm able to find and do things with a, like I did a blog is what I meant, that today now I have a podcast and I will update my blog. I do find there are people during the sentencing, there was some influx on my ⁓ social media. But I have been told I should collect most of the things in my podcast and my blog and write a book. ⁓ I don't know. I just know that it takes time. like I said, I didn't understand the whole impact of the significance of having Wachash to Wachate present at both the sentencing. I don't know why as women we respond to each other the way we do. Like again, I could have gone in by myself and I could have still taken that lateral violence, the mom and daughter projected on the other women, they would have projected on me and I would have handled it. But it's the insight, the reality of like going, I didn't and the reality of being able to step back and see what's happening within my own community and within the people that I know. Like I said to my cousin, I said those women from my community who... We're surprised I went to Las Vegas. I said I lost their friendship. I said, they just assumed that I was there to like I was there to actually see Nathan chasing horse. I said, those women and even how they perceive me with men, especially Nathan chasing horse, I said, they didn't even know that I traveled to Las Vegas with Wachash to Wachate who was a white man. I said, significance, there's a significance there. There is a total difference. There's a total reason why I didn't tell them. And if the narrative had been different and I had been ⁓ laterally attacked when I was in Vegas, my perception of the ladies from my community would have been totally different. I probably would have been still friends with them. But it's the response and the reality of ⁓ having to have some sort of anchor or some sort of grounding, ⁓ like a tether to reality. So that's what Vajashtha Vashtey was for me, was the grounding to reality. I'm just really grateful ⁓ that he, I said to him jokingly, I said, You're just damn lucky I have white uncles. I'm just really grateful that I'm able to talk about this. And again, too, it's not just coming because he's a white man. I'm just grateful I have white, ⁓ non-Indigenous friends that I'm open-minded enough that ⁓ I can talk about intimacy with them. about all things. mean, you can't, life is too short to limit and be close-minded about your own needs and your own feelings. It doesn't mean you're gonna act on them. It just means you're human, that you live and breathe. Like I said to my cousin, when you talk about wachashto washtey, I said, you can't. You can't shut off your period. So why are you projecting like something on me that I have control over when I don't? I said, I'm a heterosexual female. I didn't act on anything. I said, and why project that I was going to act on it, assuming I was going to act on something? I said, I haven't been sexually active in 49 years. Doesn't that say something about my actions? My nervous system and my your pathways and how I perceive things has been rewired for decades. I said a lot of women who come out of abusive relationships, it's going to be a hard rewiring for them. you got to start someplace. And that's why I truly believe ⁓ helping younger people understand ⁓ how to empower themselves and how to stop being victims and to help each other. Share your stories as long as it's in a safe place, as long as the people you're sharing your stories with can guide you in and out of your narratives. Sometimes you want to escape, but you need someone to ground you. So with that, again, the impact of my keeping ⁓ B'chasta Wa'shte's name private, as well as acknowledging the reasoning why I chose to... ⁓ ⁓ protect and establish boundaries when it came to the sensing of Nathan chasing horse. See, people don't realize just the impact. I guess in a way I could say just look at him at YouTube when he's being read that sentence and there's no remorse on his face. He has no respect for himself. Saying he didn't do these things. You know that that that's the whole that's the gist of it Anything that I said or tried to defend myself, he just lied. There was no point in even dealing with him. The only thing I could do was to talk and try and get in touch with his victims. That's the story that I wanted to get across to women. I didn't go down there to see Nathan chasing horse. All you have to do is look at him in the sentencing and realize he's a danger to him. to children and other people, especially women. especially children. But he is where he needs to be. I don't know if it will ever hit him, like just psychologically, just physically, like this is where you are for the rest of your life. You're going to be in a penitentiary, unable to talk to anybody or convince anybody, anything that you want to do, continue your lives. It's not going to work. You only have yourself to live with and hey, I think that's punishment enough. But who's to say what's going to happen? All I can do is do my podcast on things that I think are relevant and hopefully we'll be ⁓ able to talk and have some further discussions on just what's been happening in Canada and the United States and hopefully have some answers for people who are struggling with day-to-day living in Indigenous communities. That being said, I shall sign off for today. Like I said, it's May 11th. And again, if there are any problems with triggers, again, I've had that experience. I've had people get mad at me, walk out, you know, just making sure and telling me like I have no right to trigger them. You have to.