Latest / Salish Wolf / #77 Markus Nystrom on Project Quiver

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#77 Markus Nystrom on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

0:06
Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
0:09
the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
0:12
world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
0:26
the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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photograph his woodcraft in detail and share his story here
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on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver, The
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Art of Life Through Bowcraft and this journey, our living story
0:41
is Project Quiver. All right, How do you say your
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full name? Marcus Niestrom.
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Niestrom. OK, it's nice to meet you,
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Marcus. Thank you.
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You too. Where are you in Sweden?
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Yeah, in Sweden, I in my house where I live like a little north
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of Stockholm, I guess is the best description.
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OK, about 100 kilometers north of Stockholm, but in a global
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perspective, it's just a pinch north of so close to a city
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called Uppsala. So university.
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So yeah, it's, what's it like there?
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Well, in what ways do you mean? Your country's pretty heavily
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forested as is there a lot of forest there?
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There is yeah, but also a lot of like agricultural land around
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here. This is one of like oops all.
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And the neighboring area is one of the more like agricultural
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areas, which is kind of interesting from like a boat
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making perspective because it's actually you would think that
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like bow woods is, is that there is a lot of bow wood in the in
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the forest, like the that agricultural land with fields
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and such are like places where there isn't much wood to use for
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bow making. But it's really quite the
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opposite. It's like it's close to the
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farms that I find the best staves and the best wood out in
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the like industrial forestry forests.
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It's just pine, spruce, fir and, you know, Birch and it's, it's
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much, it's not much interesting going on.
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Is it because those forests have been cut already and this is
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second or third growth? Yeah, I, yeah, that's.
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And so then they just replant the timber wood, which is not
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necessarily the what was not the bow wood.
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Yeah, exactly. So the, the, the best spots to
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find Bowood is actually like old farms where they've had cows,
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cattle a long time because they would have like fields where
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they have grazed cattle for like hundreds of years.
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And you can find like like basic like apple trees and juniper
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and, and all kinds of Hawthorne and such that are like really
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big and you can't, you'll never find those out in the woods.
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And as Hawthorne uses more of like a hedge on the edge of
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fields. Yeah, sometimes, yeah.
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Yeah, and then there's a hard to get permission to go on and cut
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what you need. I, I can't, I don't think I've
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ever had someone say no when I've actually asked really.
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Like it's we, we have something called Alemanzrethan in Sweden,
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which kind of means like all people's rights, which is, I
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think it's called the freedom to roam in other countries.
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Like you're, you're free to move in the country without being
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like trespassing. So even if it's someone else who
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owns the land, you're free to, to walk there and you're free to
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like pick berries and mushrooms and and stuff like that.
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You're, you're free to spend time in the woods basically.
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So whenever I'm out, like we walk my dog and and stuff, and I
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find something that looks interesting to make a bow out
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of. I look up the, the, the owner of
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the land. I get in contact and it's
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usually just fine. They're like, I remember 11 time
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I asked the farmer like, could I take a couple of Hazel steaks?
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And he, he was like, he was a bit like he was on the on the
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edge, like sort of not really knowing whether he was going to
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like he didn't know what, who I was or what I was doing.
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He was like, how many 100 trees are we walking?
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That's that was his question. I was like, no, no one, one tiny
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one. Like it was like, why did you
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bother me with asking? So interesting.
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Yeah. So then like it's, it hasn't
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been an issue to ask, hey, can I take and are you taking like if
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you see a juniper, are you taking a whole tree or you kind
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of have to for juniper, wouldn't you?
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Yeah, yeah. And they're OK with that
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generally. Yeah.
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Wow. Generally, yeah, that's cool.
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Yeah, I mean, most there are, there are people who own forest
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who are really like, no, actually I, I, I remember one
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guy who said no just a while back.
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Just it was, well, it was juniper I had my eyes on and it
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was this kind of these really big juniper trees that were like
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nestled and hidden inside like a fir plantation.
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So you couldn't see it from the outside.
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But if you head in, head in there and you saw like these
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trees up close, they were like the thing.
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So it was actually like the old, the old cattle grazing ground
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that I told you about. Like it was that kind of place.
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But 30 years ago, someone thought, let's turn it into a
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plantation of trees instead. So, and they didn't cut down the
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the previous growth, so to speak.
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So they let the big juniper trees just sit and just stand
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there and the spruce just grew or the fir trees just grew up
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around it. But then he was the, the guy who
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the, the landowner would had been a generational shift.
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So he was like new generation young guy and he had found those
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juniper trees and he was going to cut down the spruce trees so
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that he would let the the juniper trees get some sun and
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so they would survive because they're really for birds and and
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so on. So it happens.
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Yeah. But most people, most people who
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own forest land, they are just they, they have it for the
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money. I guess they they want to just
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grow trees and then cut it all down.
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Clear cutting in forestry is very important or common in
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Sweden, unfortunately. Many places, yeah.
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Yeah, so they don't really care about a few juniper trees
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standing at the edge somewhere or hidden, like they want these
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massive. They want the timber.
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Yeah, the. Timber.
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Yeah, the timber. And are there any old growth
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forests left in Sweden? Yeah, there are patches of it
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and like, but here where I live where there like there really
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isn't like there is like couple of maybe I don't know, say 50
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acres, something like that in an area there's like 100 * 100
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kilometers. Like it's really nothing that.
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But there are spots here and there where there are like
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locally sort of a lot of biodiversity and and stuff.
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So what What are you finding the most for Bow Wood then near your
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home? What kind or?
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Yeah, what kind? I, I have like a like a what's
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what's the, what's the word like triad, but with 4A quartet,
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sure, a quartet. There you go.
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Juniper Lewis spoke of. Yeah.
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Do you know what kind of juniper it is?
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Yeah. Juniper Communist.
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Juniperus Communist. OK, Common Juniper.
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Yeah. And then Hazel, ash and Elm.
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But Elm is, I love Elm, but Elm is we, we've been hit hard the
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last 10-15 years with Dutch Elm disease.
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So yeah. And a lot of Elm trees are
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dying. And I've been trying to make use
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of trees that have died. So.
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So I find them like recently deceased, so to speak.
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Yeah, and I've had some success with that.
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So I let the live trees stand and I can make use of the
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already dead trees. OK.
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And how coastal are you? Are you near the coast?
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Yeah. Are you near the coast?
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Are in line? No, it, I don't know near it,
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but it's like maybe if I would get in a car, I would probably
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have to travel something like 6070 kilometers to OK coast.
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Yeah, something like that. It is actually a little bit of
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you out by the coast. It's a tiny, tiny bit.
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I have an old guy who has a cabin out on an island out by
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the coast and I'm he, we have a deal like it because he he on
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this island they have a sheep and they don't want the, the Jew
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in the yew trees because the yew is toxic the animals.
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So they cut them down now and then.
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And then he brings it to me. And for that service, I made a
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couple of boats for him. Nice.
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From that wood. So yeah, everyone's happy, but
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it's very, but it's very unusual.
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Yeah, how? How old has the you would been
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that he's brought to you? Any idea?
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Good question. I, I don't know, something like
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50 years maybe. OK, Yeah, yeah, it's, it's not
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like it's not massive or anything like that.
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It's but it's, it's not saplings either.
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It's somewhere in between like like 10 inches diameter like
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that. What's your favorite way to work
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with? Well, that's a good question.
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I guess it's that like, yeah, a very like the, the, the big
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question. I don't really know.
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I don't have like one that I always go to or always prefer,
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but I, I, I do love Juniper a lot.
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It's I don't know where, where are you, by the way?
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Where are you located? I'm in Costa Rica.
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Costa Rica. Wow.
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All right. Yeah, but you're American.
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I was born in America, I immigrated to Canada and then I
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came to Costa Rica five years ago.
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Oh wow, yeah. I still have a farm in Canada.
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All right, OK now, but I asked because you sound American to me
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and the I was thinking that it seems that a lot of Americans
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think that juniper is quite like brittle that needs a backing
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with like the new. I think it depends on so like
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the eastern red cedar we call juniper and then there's Rocky
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Mountain juniper and Utah juniper.
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And I've only carved 1 juniper bowl with Chuck Loffler who's in
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Utah and he says yes, it needs backing.
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But that would be that would be the Rocky Mountain juniper and
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the Utah juniper, maybe 2 for the Eastern red cedar, but I'm
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not certain. So I don't know about the common
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juniper and you're you're finding no.
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Yeah, I mean I I never needed backing for those of us.
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I have made a ton of self bows from Juniper.
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OK. How soft is it?
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It's very soft, very soft. That's kind of a it's a benefit
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when you work with it like it's very, it's like cutting in
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butter is really soft and it smells lovely and, and
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everything is a bunch of good stuff, good things with it.
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But the drawback, or one of the drawbacks might be that it's
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kind of if you like, if you accidentally bump the bow into
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something like a door frame or something, you, you get a dent
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That's kind. Of have it you haven't had any
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issues with it under tension? No, I've actually I only a very
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I think I've actually had more bows from like Elm break on me
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than juniper. I think juniper is is a safe
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bet. It's it's really it's a very
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elastic wood. It's it's if you if you make
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like let's say you have two bows and they are the same length,
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draw weight drawings same width and everything but one is ash
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and one is juniper. It then the juniper bow will be
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something like 30 forty, 50% thicker than the ash bow.
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It's it's it gives you a very thick bow, which is which makes
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it a very nice like beginner bowed because if you
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accidentally happen to shave off a little too much in one spot,
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it's not going to it's not going to drop that much and and draw
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weight. And it also makes a very nice
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wood for like low weight English long bows.
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So it. Handles the D shaped belly well.
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Yeah, yeah, I think so. And it makes this like it gets
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you, you if you make like a 40 LB long English Longbow, if you
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use like Elm or ash or something like that, you're going to end
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up with a pretty flat thing. It's not much to hold on to in
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the middle but Juniper gives you something is gives you like a
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round nice fat bow to hold on to kind of.
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But in the other end it doesn't work well for like really heavy
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bows. Like I made £120 bow once from
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Juniper and he'll be an English Longbow.
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No backing or anything. Worked fine.
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Took about an initial set and just it just hold it just stayed
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in one piece. I don't know why.
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Full of like character. Really.
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That's pretty. Robust.
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Yeah, I think so. But if, if I'd gone up like
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20-30 pounds more than I think the bow would have been like
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thicker than it's wider. So, so and I wouldn't want to
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shoot a bow like that because it could potentially flip on to the
17:08
side. Not many people want to shoot
17:10
150 LB bow anyway. No, At least not many I've met.
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No. Yeah, I'd say 100.
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I hate my A. 120 that's pretty strong.
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That's a that's a pretty good weight.
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So I'm surprised yeah, but I've I've only ever carved 1 and it
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was maybe 56 lbs with slightly recurve tips and see new backing
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and it's it's very responsive. It's a very short bow and very
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responsive. I really like it.
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Yeah, it's a very, very like it has comparatively a low density.
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So it's the bow end up the Bose Juniper Bose ends up being end
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up being like kind of lightweight and like these
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maneuver. I think they're they're very
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nice. Do they work with self knocks or
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do you have to put knocks or overlays on?
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That that's one thing, yeah. They I put I almost always put
18:09
something there like a tie on knock or or an overlay or
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something like that. What material do you work with a
18:16
lot? For For Knocks.
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Yeah. Well, I've ended up in this like
18:23
moose antler. Yeah, yeah.
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I don't really like it. It's just that it's what I've
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had, what what I have all. Right.
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It's cool to have to the like authentic Scandinavian animal,
18:41
putting that on your bow, the juniper, it's everything comes
18:44
locally. It's pretty cool.
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Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I actually like
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the the the the antler I use at at the moment I like I got from
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like a neighbor shot the the animal like just down the road.
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So. I did a moose antler on an
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English war bow that I made with Jake Fenwick, and it's a
19:08
beautiful Knox, but one of the two, it looks like it's stained,
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It looks dirty. And I remember when I was
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carving, I was like, how did I clean that off?
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And I couldn't, it didn't matter how like much I sounded.
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It was just part of it. So it's not as beautiful as
19:24
working with water Buffalo or some of the other horns I've
19:26
worked with. But I'm still like, this is
19:29
cool. I'm working with moose handler.
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I like this. Oh yeah.
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The, what I don't like about it is it's really hard, like
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compared to like water Buffalo. It's just really, really hard to
19:42
to like shape so much and, and it clogs like the the rasps or
19:49
the file that I use. So it just, I don't know, it's
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just, and the sandpaper is just going to sort of it just gets
19:58
stuck in it. Yeah.
20:00
So with the juniper being so soft, what do you use for tools
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for carving it? I know like Chuck Loffler uses
20:06
just a little handheld razor blade, tiny, tiny little razor
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blade held between his, you know, his fingers because it's
20:11
so soft. But what do you use?
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Well, I I I use like a, a what's it called?
20:21
Like a farrier's rasp for almost everything to do, but I I am, I
20:28
flip it over and use the fine side earlier in the process when
20:32
I work with Juniper compared to like ash or Elm or something
20:37
that's hard or hard, OK, but I, yeah, I actually it's I probably
20:47
should rethink that, come to think of it.
20:49
Like one of the things I I've done many times, I realized when
20:54
I like, I realized that right now is I've like, I end up with
21:01
both slightly below the draw rate I am for.
21:05
And I think the reason for that is that I, I sort of, I used to
21:12
to course a tool to for too long.
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So I should probably be more careful.
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Yeah, Chuck, he's pretty much the whole thing with a little
21:23
tiny razor blade until he gets really into the heavy tillering
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and then he switches to sandpaper and he does all kind
21:29
of the final tillering just with sandpaper because it's it's such
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a soft one. Yeah, you just, but I don't
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know. That was my only experience with
21:39
it, so. Yeah, it's, it's very nice to to
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like, what do you call it? Like shave with a, with a knife
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when you like put the blade like this and you go, yeah, I don't
21:50
know the no, don't know the English word for it.
21:53
Well, that's what he does with his little razor blade.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like using a card
21:57
scraper, but it's it's just a little razor blade.
22:00
Yeah, sounds like something you would cut your fingers on really
22:04
bad. Well, you could and he has.
22:06
His workbench is an absolute mess.
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And so he has like the sawdust from six previous bows on the
22:12
workbench and you put a razor blade down and you lose it and
22:15
then you have to go like scraping away the sawdust to
22:18
find your razor blade. And there's like 20 of them on
22:20
his workbench. And so I was like, you got to be
22:23
really, really careful. It's like, it's like walking in
22:26
the ocean where there's sea urchins.
22:28
But instead we're working on his desk where his workbench with
22:30
razor blades everywhere. So.
22:33
You know that's it sounds like a like a lottery.
22:37
It's one way to do it everyone's.
22:41
Workbenches are a mess, aren't they?
22:44
No, no, no. I worked with some bowyers who
22:48
are meticulous. Everything is clean multiple,
22:52
multiple times a day, and little vacuums come out and the floor
22:55
swept. Everyone's different.
22:57
Yeah, some people have like the outlines on the wall for every
23:01
tool, or they know exactly where every tool goes.
23:04
And then other people, yeah, it's like it's everything goes
23:07
everywhere. So I've experienced it pretty
23:11
much the full, full scope of that.
23:14
And yeah, it's. Where do you fit to that?
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Well, I had to fit into what they were doing when I was in
23:20
their workshop so as to not piss anyone off or, you know, to be a
23:25
disruption. But I would say I'm probably
23:28
more on the messier side than the, the neater side.
23:30
But that has also, I think that might change.
23:33
So I, I've built most of my bows and my barn on Vancouver Island
23:37
in Canada and my work area, we for years we had farmhand who
23:43
was a, a Carpenter and so I got to use all of his tools and he
23:49
would leave things out. And therefore I just kind of got
23:51
in the habit of like leaving things out.
23:53
And we had this big workbench and we'd have various projects
23:56
going at once. And so I was never meticulous
23:58
with it. Right now I'm building a
24:01
workshop which is in like 2/3 of a, a 40 foot shipping container.
24:06
So I don't have a lot of room. Like my workshop itself is going
24:09
to be like 25 was about 8 meters long and like 3 meters wide.
24:14
And then it's going to have twice that space outside.
24:17
So it's kind of the big doors open up and then it all goes
24:20
outside. But it's going to be a small
24:21
working space. And so once it's finished, I
24:25
think I might keep it neat, but I don't know.
24:29
Good luck. We shall see.
24:33
It sounds like that's basically exactly the size of my workshop.
24:37
Actually, I think it might, might be a little smaller.
24:41
It's like 7 meters tall long. Yeah, but it's tall.
24:45
Like that's one thing I figured out when, when it comes to like
24:49
bow making workshops, it's really like, it's not that
24:53
important that they're really spacious, but the the ceiling
24:57
needs to be a bit up like so you don't hit it with the bows all
25:01
the time. Yeah.
25:02
So that's, that's where the outside space of mine will come
25:04
in handy because the inside is a shipping container.
25:07
So it's only 2 1/2 meters high. So I'll be, I'll be hitting the
25:12
ceiling probably. Quite a bit.
25:14
Put put some padding up there or something.
25:20
So with the other woods you're working with, like the Elm and
25:22
the ash, are those mostly saplings or are you getting full
25:25
trees? You have a property?
25:28
A little bit of both. Yeah.
25:30
All right, Yeah. And then you said Hazel, how do
25:35
you find that? Is that most of the Bowers who
25:38
not most, maybe a good chunk of the Bowers who interviewed for
25:42
Project Quiver, Hazel was their first bow either as a kid or
25:47
when they became a, when they started making bows like it was
25:50
a Hazel sapling bow or something.
25:52
How do you find it is as a bow? It's very nice.
25:57
It's a bit softer than than Ash and Elm.
26:00
It's easier to work with. I think it's a bit dull to look
26:05
at. It's like there's no growth
26:08
rings popping or like there's no not much going on, but you can.
26:14
But it makes a really good bow. It's funny you should mention
26:19
that I think a lot of people in Sweden have the same experience
26:22
with juniper. Like a very common like comment
26:26
I get when I when I introduce myself and say I make both,
26:32
people will always be like, oh what what would should you use
26:36
or what what kind of tree do you use?
26:39
And almost always when when when I've asked, when I've answered
26:45
that question, someone will say something like, yeah, when I was
26:48
a kid, I made bows from juniper branches like that, that that's
26:52
the go to for a lot of, I think Swedish kids laying in the
27:00
forest. All right.
27:03
So. But I think also like it's one
27:06
of those things where I've been thinking about this a bit like
27:10
sort of as a bow maker. I grew up with the traditional
27:13
bonus Bible series. And one of the things that they
27:18
emphasize very much in that series of books is that design
27:24
is more important than like what wood you use.
27:27
Like you can make a good bow out of many different kinds of wood.
27:32
And I think that's kind of the reason why a lot of people
27:37
assume when I like or my experience is that a lot of
27:40
people are not very surprised that Hazel will make a good bow
27:45
because they they probably played with like Hazel shoots
27:49
Hazel twigs when they're yeah, it's really like you can whack
27:53
stuff and you can make, it's a makes like a natural whip like,
27:57
you know, we'll play with. And I think a lot of people have
28:01
done that. So when they hear I make bows
28:03
out of a Hazel, they immediately go, oh, well, that's a really
28:07
like whippy and springy kind of wood.
28:12
But then they think of like something when I, when, when you
28:15
say that you make bows out of, I don't know, plum or something,
28:19
they will be like, what is that like?
28:23
Because they don't have the same experience of, of, of that kind
28:27
of playing with the wood like it's I think.
28:32
Yeah, a number of Bowers, their first bows when they were kids,
28:36
wear Hazel. Little Hazel shoots.
28:39
Yeah, basically cut them off, size string on it and you're
28:41
ready to go. So, yeah, Yeah.
28:44
You can't fail. Yeah.
28:46
You're good. When did you?
28:49
I love, I love that. I love how how like simple it
28:52
can be. Yeah, Make something that's
28:55
pretty, pretty fun to to have and to play with, yeah.
28:59
That's when did you start and was it archery first or was it
29:02
bow making first? Well, but I started as an adult.
29:09
I, I guess like I, I made bows as a kid.
29:13
And then the thing I remember as a kid was that I would I would
29:20
find like a bent stick and I would bring it home to my dad
29:23
and he would like put like rubber bands into each other,
29:26
like lark them or girth, hitch them together and make like a
29:30
rubbery string. And that was my bow.
29:33
So I remember that. So the string did the bedding,
29:36
not so much the wood. Yeah, it was basically a
29:38
glorified slingshot. Yeah, but it worked.
29:44
I stole like the, the like the growth support for my my mom's
29:49
tomato plants. Yeah, and I was shot once
29:57
actually, right here. I I still like my best friend.
30:02
Yeah, he shot with me like it, like, I don't know, felt like 20
30:07
meters or something. Did I have a tip?
30:10
No, it was, but it was it like hit.
30:13
Oh shit. And I stood there, I wanted to
30:16
see the arrow. And so I stood there looking for
30:18
it and it just hit me right, right in the face.
30:21
And I had to like, pull it out like that.
30:22
Oh God. That's how you lose an eye.
30:27
Yeah, exactly. That's yeah.
30:30
Why? It's from experience.
30:32
I didn't, I didn't touch archery or bow making for many years.
30:38
So I actually the real when I started making bows for real was
30:45
in 2009. I was like 27 years old.
30:50
OK. And the IT was the first, my
30:59
first bow was a Maple bow. Yeah, because that.
31:04
Word board or a safe? No, it was a safe, OK.
31:09
It was probably a pretty bad piece of Maple.
31:14
It was like probably a bit twisted and I couldn't figure it
31:17
out. And I had no one to talk to
31:19
about it, like no one. I had no mentor, no one.
31:23
Like I don't remember if I even had like any contact with anyone
31:30
on like forums at that time. Like this was before Instagram,
31:34
before basically anything archery or bow making related
31:38
was uploaded on YouTube was very what was.
31:42
Your inspiration for doing it? I really don't know.
31:46
It just there were a bunch of things happening in my life at
31:51
the same time. I got a dog that took me out or
31:56
I took it out or we took each other out.
32:00
Yeah, we took walks in the woods.
32:02
And I was also, I also had this job where at the university
32:09
where I basically sat in front of a computer all day.
32:12
And I was pretty, I was pretty fed up with like intellectual
32:16
work and just abstract work. And I I longed to do something
32:20
with my hands And and then I read a book, a book called ELD.
32:27
I'm Psalmist Eldeconst. That's a bit sweet, a bit of
32:31
Swedish. It's called.
32:32
It's basically the translation is like the art of Sami fire use
32:39
the Sami is the indigenous people of the Scandinavian N OK,
32:43
and the writer is in the read RYYD.
32:48
His last name is, is an amazing book, thick book.
32:51
And the what he does in that book is he's interviewing all
32:55
these really old Sami people who grew up without electricity or
33:02
diesel or ethanol or like, you know, they and they in the north
33:07
in particular, fire is life and death.
33:12
Like if you have fire, you live. If you don't, you die.
33:15
Like it's really important. So these old people would tell
33:19
what how they lived with the fire, basically.
33:24
And this book was, it was very captivating.
33:27
And it made me like realize that different kinds of trees have
33:32
different properties when it comes to burning.
33:35
So that's what how I started. I was like out in the woods,
33:39
would pick a different kind of wood every every day to sort of
33:42
sit down and boil a pot of coffee and just take a break and
33:47
like see how it burned. And like that it had different
33:51
properties, different kinds of wood.
33:55
And then then sort of I just, I just got into my head that I
34:00
would make a bow. Actually, I started making like
34:03
hiking sticks first because I was like intrigued by like how
34:08
you could find like branches or trunks that grew in certain
34:15
shapes that could be useful. So you could just cut it off and
34:21
use it as a nice state or like hiking stick.
34:26
And I would do that for like 5-10 sticks or something.
34:29
And then I kind of, I didn't know what else to do.
34:34
Like I already had like 10 hiking sticks.
34:37
I didn't need an 11. And then I got the idea to make
34:41
a bow and and I asked a student of mine at the time who was the
34:48
only Carpenter I knew. And somehow magically he
34:51
actually knew a thing or two about bow making.
34:55
So he guided me towards the traditional Boris Bible, for
34:58
example, and he, he told me the, the, the rule of not cutting
35:06
into the back of the bow, just remove the bark and that's the
35:10
back of the bow. And without knowledge, I, I, I
35:14
started making bows and it was like, like I, I was, it was love
35:22
at first sight. I don't really know why.
35:24
I just really love making bows, but it didn't come from, I
35:29
didn't start making bows because I was an Archer, like was into
35:33
archery and was curious as to how to make a bow or wanted to
35:38
make the bow I'm going to have for the rest of my life kind of
35:42
thing. It just, I don't know, Yeah.
35:49
And are you into? I presume you're more into
35:51
archery now than you were then. Yeah, but not that much
35:56
actually. I like I shoot, I I can, but I'm
35:59
not. Very bows you make, mostly, and
36:01
that's about it. Yeah, something like that.
36:04
Yeah, that's pretty common. Yeah, it's, yeah, I, I've had
36:11
periods when I, when I shot more, I had like a couple of
36:15
years when I would like, I don't know, at least a couple of
36:20
innings a week. I would go down to the field and
36:23
and shoot a target practice for like 50 hours of time at a time.
36:33
I didn't. I didn't.
36:34
It didn't stick. Yeah.
36:36
So how did the bow carving evolve then?
36:38
So 2009, you carved your first Maple bow.
36:40
Was it successful? Actually, I kind of didn't want
36:46
to see it. Sure.
36:47
That would be great, yeah. I'll see if I can find it.
36:56
Well, I don't. So here's the oh, let's see,
37:01
that's the fine tip. And yes, very low mass.
37:06
Very low mass. But that's pretty good.
37:08
Yeah, yeah, yeah, very. You can.
37:10
You can probably tell it's very heavy.
37:13
I can probably like bend. Yeah, yeah.
37:16
So like what, 25 lbs maybe that's not.
37:22
Even somehow I I got in my head to glue on some like Birch bark.
37:32
OK, that's what that is. Really, I don't know.
37:36
So you did a Birch bark backed. Maybe, yeah.
37:40
And this like, like I said, I had nothing to go on.
37:43
No, no, it's cool. Is that a handle?
37:46
Did you put a riser on the handle?
37:48
Yeah, yeah. Don't ask me why.
37:50
OK. It, but it's got a shelf.
37:53
It does, yeah. I mean, it shoots about, oh,
37:58
shoots an arrow, but it's like, and the tiller is terrible.
38:04
But I remember the first time I was out trying it, I shot it.
38:09
Shot 45 pesos all right, which is like maybe 1/4 of my bows
38:17
now, But I was thrilled. It was a start, right?
38:22
Yeah. Yeah, and it held up.
38:24
It held up and it's still here. It's it was just, it was still
38:31
even though I can see it like I can look at it now and and think
38:36
of it as pretty, not like expert, expertly made.
38:41
Yes, I can still like see that. You know, you got to you got to
38:47
be allowed to suck at the beginning of stuff.
38:51
You got to start somewhere and like then.
38:56
Some things are really hard to do so.
38:59
Some things are really hard to do, like the, the first, if you
39:01
play the piano, your first piano concert is going to be really
39:05
bad, like, and you've got to be allowed to be really bad.
39:08
And that, that's kind of why I keep it.
39:11
I think I, I, I give classes sometimes or like workshops
39:17
teaching people not to make those.
39:20
And I always bring as well to sort of remind people how, how,
39:24
how bad it can look in the beginning.
39:27
And that, like you, you got to be, yeah, it's a, it's a it's
39:33
hard to do this and you got to start somewhere.
39:38
So how did it evolve from that bow?
39:40
Did you find teachers, more resources, just experimentation,
39:44
or did you go with it? Well, I and another thing
39:48
happened, which was I, I had kind of a, well, personal
39:56
crisis, I guess, like the life I had sort of flipped upside down
40:02
and I ended up on a friend's couch for basically a couple of
40:09
years. Like generous friend.
40:13
Yes, very. For that time, I like, I had my,
40:21
I had my job at the university, but I could also like just
40:29
devote myself entirely to whatever I felt like for the.
40:33
What What was your job at the university?
40:36
I was like a course coordinator. That was the title.
40:39
I basically organized classes courses in sustainable
40:45
development or related issues. Did you teach them?
40:50
Are you? A little bit of both.
40:54
I did some teaching and did some like seminars, OK, stuff like
41:00
that. But mostly we had like external
41:04
lecturers come in. OK, All right, so.
41:09
Anyway, I ended up having like a couple of years where I could
41:13
really sort of devote myself to, to bow making and really teach
41:18
myself how to do it. So I had a very productive from
41:21
a bow making standpoint, a very productive couple of years
41:24
there. But you were on a couch, so
41:26
where did you carve your bows? I found this tiny workshop in
41:31
the basement of this was it when I lived in the city, so it was
41:35
like in the basement of a tenement house.
41:38
So I would like, yeah, it was when we talked about small
41:46
workshop, like that workshop I think was like, I think it was,
41:50
I almost hit my head like that's how low the ceiling was.
41:55
And I think the room was like maybe 4 * 4 meters, something
41:59
like that with a tiny bench. And so yeah.
42:07
And I would be outdoors too, like just sitting on a on a, on
42:13
a chair out on a lawn, you know, you know, it wasn't, I wasn't
42:22
whatever worked so to. Speak and what tools would you
42:26
use then? Well it was the rasp all hand
42:32
tools. I have a, what's it called
42:37
Bandsaw now, but at that time it was all just hand tools, small
42:45
handheld hand axe, like hatchet, yeah and rasp and yeah, just
42:55
self knocks, self bows. And that's one thing too.
42:58
Like, I don't know if you, if you've noticed this, but like a
43:02
lot of people when they're new, they want to like like, like I
43:06
did with my bow here. And they, they kind of want to
43:12
like they make a bow and then they're like, yeah, but I'm also
43:15
going to try to like back this with a sinew and put rawhide on
43:20
it. And I'm going to recurve it and
43:21
I'm going to set back the handle and I'm going to do a riser.
43:24
And, you know, they just add on like bells and whistles on the
43:28
thing. And I think I'm pretty like
43:33
quickly went away from that and like, learn to just be a bit
43:40
minimalistic, maybe just self knocks and self bows and just
43:46
yeah, do it clean. So there was a good thing.
43:51
When, when did your little bow carving adventure become
43:55
something more than that? Like is it, are you selling
43:58
bows? OK, so when did when did it
44:01
become something where you realize this this was something
44:04
you could do more lucratively and dedicate more time to?
44:11
Well, my, my, I don't know to call it career, my career at the
44:20
university ended up with a thesis at around 2015.
44:26
And at the same time I became a father.
44:30
And those two things like we have a lot of maternal and
44:40
paternal leave in Sweden. Like it's like, I don't know how
44:44
much, but it's like you can be away from work for like a year,
44:49
a year and a half. Like it's a long time compared
44:53
to, to like American standards at least.
44:58
And when my wife then was at home with like stayed away,
45:05
stayed home from work and I had just finished my degree and
45:11
didn't know what to do and didn't have a job.
45:13
Then I sort of, I had this opportunity to, to go for it and
45:19
try to actually have it as a, as a more of an income, the bone
45:23
making. That's when I started with like
45:26
giving, of course, is in like 2016 maybe was I think the first
45:33
something like that. And I've always sold those like,
45:39
but in the beginning was like, does anyone want to bow?
45:43
I can you can have it for like a cup of coffee and like it was
45:47
just needing to be rid of them. They were just, they were just
45:54
making my, my, my living space just clogger and clutter
45:58
cluttered. But yeah, so I think around
46:04
20/15/2016 was when I sort of started to to try to actually
46:12
make a little bit of a little bit of money on it.
46:16
And how much are you doing that now?
46:18
Is it a large part of your income, the whole thing, or just
46:23
a portion? Just a portion it's I don't
46:28
know. I think if you put it like on a
46:33
on a / a year, I think it I really don't know it because it
46:40
varies so much like it. It can be like months without
46:44
any, any, any work. And then they can be like a
46:50
course with eight people in it and and like 3 bowls at the same
46:54
time and it's like all of a sudden it's quite a lot.
46:59
But I don't know, I've never done it for the money.
47:01
I don't. Do you think that many do you
47:03
think any bow makers like do it for the money?
47:07
Do it for the money. Doubt it.
47:10
Well no, but there are some full time bow ears.
47:15
It's like Corey Hawk and Waylon Oliver full time.
47:19
Jamie McDonald or Raymond Dekbo's is full time.
47:25
Trying to think about any of the European.
47:27
Jake Fenwick is full time. I'm just thinking of the ones
47:30
that I worked with for Project Quiver, Nacho Marco in Spain,
47:33
full time. The rest of the ones that I
47:37
worked with, I don't want to forget anyone.
47:41
Yeah, everyone else has other occupations.
47:45
So there's like a handful of of the 14 that I worked with that
47:48
are doing it full time. But are they doing it for the
47:51
money? No, They're probably doing it
47:52
for the love of, of doing something that that they love.
47:55
And it just so happens that they can make a living off of it.
47:59
Yeah. And the rest will say, yeah, we
48:02
sell bows. But for the most part, any
48:03
income they make goes back into buying more staves and supplies
48:07
for carving more bows. So I do, there are a few that
48:11
are doing it as, as truly supplemental income, but a lot
48:15
of them are just putting the money back into, back into their
48:18
bow craft. So yeah, I, I, I've never met
48:22
anyone. Lost you?
48:24
Oh, on my back. Yeah, I think so.
48:28
You're a bit blurry, but. OK, wow.
48:32
It's still recording on my end, so it'll probably probably be
48:34
fine. Yeah.
48:37
I've never met a Bowyer who got rich carving bows, so I don't
48:41
know if that's it. I don't know if that's the
48:43
thing, but I guess it depends. It also depends on too, what you
48:46
consider rich. And when I went to, I worked
48:49
with Jamie McDonald at Ravenbeak now three times, and the guy's
48:54
got such a beautiful life. His kids are in the workshop
48:57
making arrows with him, his wife does the finishing work on the
49:01
bows. Like their family is rich with
49:03
the culture that they have created around bow making and
49:07
it's a beautiful thing. And it's a.
49:09
It's full time for all of them. They have everything they need.
49:12
They live in a earthen built home that they built with their
49:15
community and right on the coast.
49:18
Like, everything about it is just magical and beautiful.
49:20
Yeah, I would say that they've nailed it.
49:23
But would they be considered like, you know, financially
49:27
wealthy beyond their, you know, beyond what's normal now?
49:30
But I think that's not what I consider wealth either.
49:34
I totally agree. And I, I, I'm, it's probably,
49:38
probably something similar that I got going.
49:41
Like I, it's a supplemental income.
49:43
Yes, I do get a bit from it, but that's kind of a bonus.
49:47
I do it because there's some sort of passion and love in it.
49:50
It's, I think of it as a, as a, as a form of art.
49:55
I guess it's like art. It's something you do for like
50:01
the love of it, not for it to like generates an income that
50:06
you can use for something else. It's like it's, it's nice in and
50:10
of itself. It just, it's, it fits really
50:16
well with the rest of my life with like how we live in the
50:20
countryside and you know, everything.
50:22
It's just. Yeah.
50:23
And it's a, it's a beautiful meditation.
50:26
And you know, Phil, Phil Rockhouser in Austria says that,
50:31
yeah, at one point he considered doing it full time.
50:33
But he's like, if I, if I turn my hobby into full time work,
50:36
then I need to find another hobby.
50:38
And so he decided to keep Bo carving his hobby.
50:41
And he's really glad he made that decision because we all
50:43
need something like that. That is a passion project that
50:45
is not based on I've got to finish this so I can make money
50:49
and feed my family because that definitely changes the dynamic
50:52
of it. Waylon, all of a Swiftwood bow,
50:55
said that's really helped him to become the best Bowyer he can
50:59
be. Having that added pressure like
51:01
he's got to perform and he really enjoys how that pressure
51:05
has helped him to be an amazing Bowyer.
51:07
But other bowyers, I don't want that pressure.
51:09
I just want to do it because I love doing it.
51:11
So each to their own. Sometimes I like me and my, my
51:15
wife would joke that like if someone has contact me and won a
51:20
bow and she's like, yeah, you, you, you don't like customers,
51:25
do you? Yeah, no damn customers.
51:31
It's, it's, it's not entirely true, but it, there's, there's
51:36
something about it. Like I, it's not, I don't do it
51:40
for the customers. Like I, it's, it's a bonus, like
51:44
I said. And I think there's something
51:46
about this that, well, this is just me, but I think there's
51:50
something about this which because it is something, it's a
51:54
passion, it's not something that is particularly like useful.
52:00
I don't make bows for like that, it for because they have a
52:05
particular utility down the line.
52:08
Yeah, you're not arming the militia anymore.
52:11
No, no, yeah. I'm not.
52:12
One bow is enough. Yeah.
52:15
But so it's something like AI don't know revolt is a too hard
52:21
a word, but it's some sort of opposition perhaps to what a lot
52:28
of people do in their daily work and daily lives all the time.
52:32
Like right nine to five. You you pay your bills, you try
52:37
to get as nice a house and a car as possible.
52:40
And there's nothing wrong about that.
52:42
I'm not talking down to that. It's, it's, it's, it's a part of
52:45
everyone's life, I guess. But it's really important at
52:48
least for me to have something that goes against that where I
52:51
can just sort of, yeah, like express myself artistically in a
52:57
way and just sort of let the hands decide what to do as well.
53:05
It's not so like intellectually demanding, like it's, yeah, I
53:12
don't know. Something you can become
53:14
immersed in. And a lot of people are doing it
53:18
for the the love of it, some for the therapeutic aspect, some for
53:23
the art of it, some for all of those things.
53:26
Like it's just something that you and I know that if it
53:28
resonates, it resonates deeply and it's something that we've
53:31
got to do. And it just feels, feels we feel
53:35
more complete when we're able to, from time to time, go into
53:39
the workshop and carve a bow. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
53:43
What is the bra? What is your brand for your bow
53:46
making? My brand is barrelind bows.
53:50
Barrelind is a BARRLIND is a. No old Swedish word for you.
53:59
It's actually still the Norwegian word for you.
54:02
Norwegian with the 1R instead of two Rs is Barland so.
54:08
And the is the you all over Europe basically the same
54:14
regardless of country or do you find there's differences?
54:18
Oh, that's very big differences. Like I made a bow, I made a
54:25
couple of bows. I got stage from Germany,
54:27
southern Germany. They were completely different
54:31
from the states from around here.
54:34
And it's all taxes by Canada though, right?
54:37
Yeah, yeah, it's all taxes by Canada.
54:39
It's just that the, the, the, the wood, yeah, it just looks
54:44
and just acts very. Differently, right?
54:50
How so? Like what are you noticing?
54:55
Well, this the Swedish U that I have used have well, I, I've
55:02
used U from around here, like I said, from the coast and then
55:06
from Gotland, which is an island to like the southeast of Sweden
55:12
and then a few states from Skona, which is the the southern
55:16
tip of Sweden. And they all they're, they're
55:23
very like they, it seems to be, it seems to me that it's like
55:28
how it looks, the coloring of, of the wood and how thick the
55:33
growth rings are can vary greatly.
55:37
Like the EU cut cut here is in, in Oakland where I live is like
55:44
the growth rings would be like, I made this bow like a few
55:47
months ago during the winter. Growth rings were like 4-5
55:51
millimeters thick, like really thick.
55:53
Like it was as a, as a, as if it had grown really quickly.
55:58
Yeah, yeah. I made a bow from it and it
56:03
turned out to be like 90 lbs, something like that.
56:07
An English Longbow. Yeah.
56:09
And it was so heavy. The, the, the despite the thick
56:15
growth rings, the wood, the bow itself weighed over a kilogram
56:20
when I was finished. So I was like, I could have made
56:24
this bow into like 150 lbs easily.
56:29
Like it was so good quality, but the growth rings didn't tell it.
56:34
And there was almost no coloration difference between
56:37
hartwood and sapwood. It was all just kind of pinkish
56:41
yellowy, kind of very slight difference.
56:46
But other than that, U is like it's when you talk, when you ask
56:51
like favorite bow wood. U is one of those kind of hate
56:56
love woods. For me, it's a great bow wood
57:00
obviously, but it I seem to have bad luck with it.
57:06
It seems to crack when I dry it in unusual ways, especially
57:10
around like twigs, knots. So that's the staves.
57:14
Good staves are ruined. It seems to like, yeah, like two
57:22
or three times I've, I've actually made a bow, finished it
57:25
and everything. And then just because I had it
57:29
like indoors for a couple of days while I put on like the
57:32
waxing and the finishing, the finish, the oil, those two like
57:40
two or three days where I had it indoors was enough to make it
57:43
crack like in the belly, like drying cracks.
57:46
It's like, I've never had that anytime with any kind of wood,
57:51
but. So then it couldn't have been
57:54
dry when you were working with it?
57:56
Well, I, I, I have like where I have EU, EU stays, it's like 60%
58:03
humidity maybe. And indoors it's like maybe 40
58:11
something like that during the winter.
58:13
So it's not that much of a difference.
58:16
And it shouldn't be such a dramatic effect on such a short
58:19
time. It's just that it, yeah.
58:23
I don't know. I've had bad luck with it, yeah.
58:27
But the I mean, I've found that the Taxis piccata, I haven't I
58:31
haven't carved with it. It's such a different tree,
58:34
though, than the the Pacific U, the Taxis perebifolia.
58:38
I can Pacific Northwest. Like the yew trees that are 7080
58:43
years old are still only like maybe 10 centimeters, maybe 15
58:49
centimeters in diameter. They're tiny.
58:51
And so these yew trees are in forest typically with big fir
58:55
trees and big cedar trees all planted at about the same time.
58:59
And the fir and the cedar trees will be massive, like, you know,
59:02
bigger than you can wrap your arms around easily.
59:04
And then these we have these little yew trees that are just
59:07
tiny. When I make a bow out of those
59:11
and I count the rings, or when I look at like Jamie McDonald's
59:14
bows or Pete Woodlands bows and I try to count the rings, like I
59:17
get lost after like 50-60 rings. So we're talking these tiny
59:21
little pieces of wood are so much age to them.
59:25
And then when I was in Europe and places like Salzburg where
59:28
there's yew trees all through the city, they're huge, giant
59:34
trees. It's just very different from
59:36
what we see. There are bigger yew trees in
59:38
the Pacific Northwest, but that they're hard to find definitely.
59:44
Never. I've never used the the the
59:45
Pacific version. I try to like doing exchange
59:51
with like, what's his name? Like Ryan G something Gottier.
59:57
Yeah. He, I sent him some Elm staves
1:00:01
and he was supposed to, or he tried like in 10 different ways
1:00:05
to, to ship some U staves to me, but it failed.
1:00:09
So I don't know. Yeah.
1:00:11
So I was looking forward to that, but I don't know, maybe
1:00:15
some, someday. I've been thinking about maybe
1:00:18
getting in contact with Ravenbeak.
1:00:20
Yeah, and he's got, he's got the biggest stash of U Pacific U in
1:00:25
the world. It's incredible.
1:00:27
Like he's like, I can't even I don't even thousand more than
1:00:33
1000 staves, premium staves too. Yeah, yeah.
1:00:37
He drives them for their drive for seven years.
1:00:39
And so when he's building bows this year, they are from staves
1:00:42
from 7 years ago and he's he's making hundreds of bows a year.
1:00:47
So yeah, he's. Got he started collecting staves
1:00:49
like 7 years before he started making bows.
1:00:52
I don't know how, I don't know how that started, but he's been
1:00:55
making bows for a little for quite a while.
1:00:57
So he, I think he's, yeah, I forget what year he started, but
1:01:03
it's he's, he's gone near nearly 20 years of doing it.
1:01:07
So he's got quite a supply. But he, he lives in the land of,
1:01:10
of you, it's everywhere. And he also lives in the land
1:01:14
where clear cutting forestry is the norm.
1:01:17
And so they'll literally go in as you've probably experienced
1:01:20
in Sweden, and they'll take out entire mountainsides and the Yew
1:01:23
Tree is seen as just a nuisance. It's in the way.
1:01:26
And so if he's fortunate enough, he'll be able to find some views
1:01:30
that have been left standing or maybe they've been freshly
1:01:33
filled during the the clearing process.
1:01:35
Yeah, sounds like very similar to to how what the the the view
1:01:41
on Juniper in Sweden. Yeah, it's kind of the same
1:01:45
thing. Yeah, but it was I was thinking
1:01:47
like it generally like I have a stash of staves, of course, like
1:01:53
a couple of 100 maybe or so, but I don't have room for it that
1:01:58
much more than I have. But I was thinking like the the
1:02:01
the guys who do it like professionally and full time and
1:02:05
and make a living from it. Like how, how do can you say
1:02:10
anything about like how they get their hands on staves and how
1:02:13
they work with like collecting wood, like how, how big a part
1:02:18
of of their work is that? Well, you mentioned Ryan Gautier
1:02:23
with Stormcrow Archery and he when he was starting out, he
1:02:26
said he would go into the forest every single day after work and
1:02:30
look for yew trees. And so he was always finding
1:02:34
staves and collecting them. So I, I know that's just
1:02:37
something that he loves doing. That's part of the boat making
1:02:39
process for him. That's, you know, it's the
1:02:41
beginning of it. Others I've worked with get it
1:02:47
by most of their stays. Well, let's say like Corey Hawk
1:02:50
of organic archery. He works primarily with common
1:02:52
hackberry and where he lives in central United States, it's,
1:02:58
it's seen as invasive. And so he's got contracts where
1:03:02
he can actually go in and clear areas where the hackberry has
1:03:05
taken over. And so he's got a a really,
1:03:08
really significant supply of hackberry.
1:03:11
So I think it really helps to find a wood in your locality
1:03:16
that is abundant. So where I am right now in Costa
1:03:19
Rica, I have lemon wood everywhere.
1:03:22
And yeah. And so I've started collecting.
1:03:25
I've got tons of lemon, literally tons because these
1:03:28
things are so heavy. I've got tons of lemon wood
1:03:32
staves that aren't why I should say lemon wood logs.
1:03:34
I haven't split them yet. And staves.
1:03:36
I have a bunch of saplings and a bunch of logs that are are cut
1:03:40
to length, but I haven't, I had to order some wedges, which
1:03:43
should be coming any day now so I can split them.
1:03:46
It's hard to get, hard to get some of the material or supplies
1:03:49
that I need here. Wow.
1:03:51
But it just, you know, for me, that's that's the one that makes
1:03:54
sense. It would not make sense for me
1:03:55
to try to find Osage orange here because it doesn't exist here.
1:03:59
And you know, it's if you're in Missouri, Osage orange is
1:04:02
everywhere. And so that's that's the go to
1:04:05
wood. If you're in Utah, juniper is
1:04:06
everywhere and Pacific Northwest U is everywhere.
1:04:10
So I think that's what a lot of Bowers are doing is they're
1:04:12
relying kind of on their local source and then maybe doing
1:04:15
trades with other Bowers like like you've experienced.
1:04:19
But it's as you know too, if you find one good tree that's that
1:04:25
has come down, if it's a large size tree, there's a lot of
1:04:27
staves in that. A lot of work goes into it.
1:04:30
But I was talking or air strikes.
1:04:33
Beer was telling a story. He's a he's a Sparrow Bow is in
1:04:36
Austria. And he was driving one day and
1:04:38
the road was closed because there was this giant red oak
1:04:41
tree that was being taken down. So he stopped and he asked like,
1:04:44
what are you guys doing with the wood?
1:04:45
And they weren't doing anything with it.
1:04:46
They were just getting rid of this giant tree.
1:04:48
So he's now got enough. Red Oaks would The last time for
1:04:51
years, yeah. Yeah, it's now it's just, it's
1:04:57
just interesting to hear. And I think for me anyway, I've
1:05:01
always had dogs. So I'm always like walking the
1:05:04
dog and that just helps me just get out there and yeah, look
1:05:08
around and I probably know like, like every Elm tree within like
1:05:15
8 kilometers from here. Yeah, you know, it's a yeah,
1:05:19
like you, you. Well, you know, you know Para
1:05:22
Frieden, right? Yeah, yeah.
1:05:25
Yeah, yeah. I think Para recommended that I
1:05:27
reach out to you. So he works, he's known for
1:05:29
working mostly with saplings because it's easy to find Elm
1:05:33
saplings. And so he's he's got a lot of
1:05:35
Elms. Well, maybe not even a lot of
1:05:37
them, but he knows where to go to find Elm saplings.
1:05:39
And it's not really, as you know, when you take down a
1:05:42
little sapling, it's not scarring the landscape.
1:05:44
It's not really, you're not taking out other trees when you
1:05:47
take down a big tree. You're probably not ruining
1:05:49
animal habitat. And so it's kind of a it's an
1:05:52
easy way to get a stave and make a beautiful bow.
1:05:56
Yeah, I think that's a very important thing too.
1:05:59
Like I think for for me in a way is like it, it all started with
1:06:05
like my love for the forest and being outdoors.
1:06:08
And that's kind of where it's still at.
1:06:11
It's still kind of rooted in like the the playing I had I did
1:06:16
as a kid, like being outdoors and and I kind of it's kind of a
1:06:24
like if bow making is kind of an art that is sort of in some sort
1:06:30
of opposition to like the nine to five grind.
1:06:34
Yeah. Then the the same is like the
1:06:36
way a bow maker I as a bow maker like behave and look and act in
1:06:42
the in the forest like the staves that collect is is
1:06:45
something completely different compared to like clear cutting
1:06:48
industrial forestry. Absolutely.
1:06:50
Yes, I cut down trees, but I, I do it like I there's, there's a
1:06:56
completely different logic to it and and like, yeah.
1:07:02
And when I'm, when I moved here to Costa Rica, I was on the
1:07:04
lookout for lemon wood. I didn't know what it looked
1:07:06
like. I didn't know where it was.
1:07:08
Took me years to figure out that my yard had 7 lemon wood trees
1:07:11
literally in it. And then once I identified it,
1:07:14
now every time I'm in the jungle, I'm, I'm just like, oh,
1:07:16
there's a lemon. My wife and kids just laugh at
1:07:18
me because I'm like, oh, look at that lemon wood.
1:07:20
Look at that one. And yeah, I'm looking for like,
1:07:22
I don't want to take down big trees.
1:07:24
I'm looking for like this little shoot that comes off the side
1:07:26
that's like 4 centimeters in diameter and it's going to make
1:07:29
a perfect sapling bow. And if it, you know, if that
1:07:31
gets cut off the tree, it's not going to impact the tree, it's
1:07:33
not going to really impact the environment.
1:07:36
So it's, or I'm finding where trees have fallen.
1:07:38
And then I'm, I carry a chainsaw in the back of my Land Cruiser,
1:07:41
so I'm always ready to to chop some up and, and take them home.
1:07:47
But yeah, it's, and then black locust is a really good one.
1:07:51
Number of bowyers like Nacho Marco and Enrico Miraji use
1:07:55
black locust a lot because it's also.
1:07:59
Oh. I won't say invasive, but it's a
1:08:01
very fast grower. And so it's something that it's
1:08:06
in abundant where there it's in abundance where there's places
1:08:08
where black locust is growing because it grows really, really
1:08:11
fast. Yeah.
1:08:13
I think Enrique Enrico took me to a little black locust farm,
1:08:17
whereas maybe only an acre that was planted out, but it was just
1:08:20
black locust saplings. It went up probably 10 to 15
1:08:25
meters. They go pretty tall and pretty
1:08:27
straight and pretty tall. But there are only like maybe 6
1:08:30
centimeters in diameter, but just hundreds and hundreds of
1:08:32
them. And that's that's he knows the
1:08:35
person who has that, and that's going to be the source of some
1:08:38
of his black locust. Yeah, yeah.
1:08:41
That's what I would I would like to try one day too.
1:08:43
I've never used Osage. Either yeah, that's.
1:08:47
Yeah, I've actually had like a like a thing where I, where I
1:08:52
said that the I, the staves I use are like from trees that I
1:08:56
have collected myself. That was kind of thing I had for
1:09:00
a long time. And then I, I sort of, I had no,
1:09:05
I stumbled upon people who were like, yeah, do you want, do you
1:09:08
want some new staves from Gotland or like I just happened
1:09:13
to amass some, some staves from, from out of town, so to speak.
1:09:19
But the, it's like the, the Ryan Gussier exchange was that was
1:09:25
the first like the idea of like buying some estate from like the
1:09:29
others or getting my hands on estate from like the other side
1:09:31
of the world quite literally was I've never done that.
1:09:38
And Robinia or like black locust.
1:09:41
Yeah. Is, is one of those.
1:09:44
I'm not really sure where they are, like where they're native.
1:09:49
They're native, typically to the, I think to the US, but
1:09:52
they're all over the world. Yeah, they're not here, I can
1:09:56
tell you that. They would grow there.
1:09:58
I'm sure a lot of people are growing them because they're a
1:10:02
really fast source of decent lumber and they're used for like
1:10:04
fence posts and stuff. So there's a lot of like black
1:10:07
locust plantations that are being planted.
1:10:10
Yeah, OK. It's but yeah, I'm pretty sure
1:10:14
they're native to the US, but there's an abundance of them.
1:10:19
Yeah, yeah. I've seen, like, I've seen them
1:10:22
in like gardens, yeah. And I was talking, I interviewed
1:10:27
someone in Europe recently who found some Osage in Europe and
1:10:33
was able to harvest some, but just like a little, a little
1:10:36
patch of it that I forget who I was talking to.
1:10:38
It's, it's on one of the interviews.
1:10:40
What's? What's that?
1:10:43
I think it OK, Yeah. I saw one interview that you
1:10:46
talked with. I can't remember his name.
1:10:48
Like the the want to say Hungarian guy.
1:10:53
No, never mind. Denyak, who is Czech Republic?
1:11:00
Czech Republic, but I don't think it was Denyak.
1:11:02
It might have been Lubo, I don't know.
1:11:06
Anyway, someone in Europe found some OS age orange growing in
1:11:09
Europe and was able to harvest it.
1:11:10
So. Nice for them, good for them,
1:11:12
yeah. But yeah, it's a nice wood.
1:11:14
I've I've only done 1 bow out of Osage, but those who work with
1:11:17
Osage rave about Osage. And at the same time, those who
1:11:22
work with Pacific U rave about Pacific Eel.
1:11:24
And it's it's yeah, Corey Hawk raves about Hackberry.
1:11:27
So I think it's about finding your own kind of niche, your own
1:11:30
wood and. No worry about Juniper.
1:11:33
Juniper, Yeah. Jennifer It's such a nice like
1:11:37
character. It's lots of like holes right
1:11:40
through and lots of wrinkly stuff going on in the bark.
1:11:45
It's really nice. Yeah, it's awesome.
1:11:49
Marcus. I appreciate you taking the time
1:11:51
to do this. It's been nice getting to know
1:11:53
you, learning a bit about your craft, anything you want to,
1:11:57
anything you want to add before we wrap up.
1:12:01
No, I think I've been talking way too much.
1:12:05
Where can people find out more about you?
1:12:09
Well. On Instagram and and Facebook,
1:12:11
Berlin bows or in on Facebook, it's also my name, Nils Marcus
1:12:18
Nystrom. It's the Berlin bow slash Nils
1:12:22
Marcus Nystrom. Yeah, so awesome.
1:12:27
Berlin on Instagram How many kids do you have now?
1:12:32
I have one, yeah. Boy or girl?
1:12:35
Oh boy. Does he help out in the workshop
1:12:38
at all? Any interest in Bokar?
1:12:39
No, he thinks his old man is real.
1:12:43
Like, like if I like. Yeah, No, he thinks I'm just
1:12:50
embarrassing. Give him 5 or 10 years and he's
1:12:53
going to be making bows. So give him 5 or 10 years and
1:12:57
he'll be making bows. Yeah, like I've been making
1:12:59
boats for him his whole life, and it's like it just hangs
1:13:02
there on the wall. Like, I don't know.
1:13:04
I don't know. I don't know what to do, man,
1:13:11
No. It's in his DNA.
1:13:12
It'll it'll call to him eventually.
1:13:15
Maybe. Maybe.
1:13:17
It's like the thing you grow up with, like having around you.
1:13:20
Of course, that's like the common thing.
1:13:22
It's not that interesting like. It's either you become
1:13:27
infatuated with it or you go the opposite way and you want
1:13:30
nothing to do with it. Could be I actually went for
1:13:33
like I had this like what I I went to school and like had a
1:13:39
presentation like what do your parents do for a living?
1:13:42
Like what do they work with kind of thing?
1:13:44
And I I talked about my bow making and yeah, I think like
1:13:50
after that he was a bit, my son was a bit like interested all of
1:13:56
a sudden is like it was as if he realized that OK, not everyone
1:14:00
is is making bows like this is weird.
1:14:03
So. And some of his classmates were
1:14:05
probably pretty intrigued. But.
1:14:07
Yeah, I think so, yeah. I teach so many kids to shoot
1:14:13
for archery and like they, they love it.
1:14:15
Like as soon as they can get their hands on a bow, they're so
1:14:17
excited about it so. Yeah, that's that's my
1:14:21
experience too most of the time. Yeah.
1:14:26
Well, thank you again for doing this and.
1:14:28
Thank you for having me, it was very nice.
1:14:31
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