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Every Big Update from Podcast Movement Evolutions with Sam Sethi · Buzzcast

• 0:00
  Alban: All right, so I just got back from podcasts movement. And while I was there, I talked to Jordan Harbinger to New Year's Kev. Yeah. So I talked to him like, a year and a half ago. And I think he was getting somewhere like three to 5 million downloads per month on his podcast. And now he's getting 15 million downloads a month. And it's pretty much all from one, like marketing channel and his podcast promotions.
• 0:25
  Kevin: That's amazing. So it's like 5x in a year. Yeah.
• 0:29
  Alban: And here's what he's doing. He is basically running ads in other people's podcasts that are all just pointing back to his show. He talks about his show, he gives people an idea of what it's about. And then they just click back to his show. So yeah, incredible growth in like a year and a half. And I kind of wonder if we should try to do something similar.
• 0:54
  Kevin: I mean, for the show, or for the listeners of this show,
• 0:56
  Alban: maybe both. But up, I was thinking we could actually be the givers of those promos. We have a lot of people that listen to our podcast. But I don't know if like, we might have kind of reached the target audience of people who are on Buzzsprout that want to listen to a podcast about podcasting. But maybe we can get our listeners to give us some promos. So we can put some rules around it. But people could send in some promos. And then we could put them on this show. And then see to those actually boost their numbers.
• 1:25
  Alban: I'm not thinking it's gonna be, you know, whatever, 12 million extra over a course of a year, like Jordans done, but it could be a cool thing to test.
• 1:34
  Kevin: Yeah, I love it. So what are your you put some parameters around this idea?
• 1:38
  Alban: Alright, so here's what I think we need. They've got a short, so like, 30 seconds, Max, give us the name of the podcast, and then links to one or two of your podcast listings. So maybe it was apple, and Spotify or give us a link to your podcast itself, its own website, and send those in to us at support@buzzsprout.com. And if they're good, we'll select a few of them. And we'll drop them in to the next few episodes of bus casts. So pull that together and send us an email. And hopefully you'll hear a few of those in the next episode.
• 2:15
  Kevin: Yeah, I like it. I like I like exploring the idea of what makes a really good podcast promo. So hopefully, we get a bunch of different types of submissions. And then we can go through and try to figure out like, you know, we'll pick two or three for next episode, and we'll drop them in there. Maybe we can get some feedback. If there was any boost in the numbers. I mean, our show is not massive. So it's only going to do so much. But hopefully they'll see a little bump in their stats. And then maybe we'll pick a couple different types of the next week, or the next episode. And we'll see.
• 2:41
  Kevin: Maybe we can all figure out together what is the best type of promo like the most effective like, should it have background music, or should it not have background music, right? Do you need to repeat the name of your podcast at the beginning of your ad and the end of your ad? We will drop links in the show notes. So maybe you say something like there's a link to the podcast in the show notes.
• 2:55
  Kevin: If you want to check it out.
• 2:57
  Kevin: Like say that somewhere in your promo, but seven to us and try to do the best you can. And maybe we'll figure this out together of what's the best way to do a promo for your podcast.
• 3:06
  Kevin: And then if it starts to work, maybe there's a way to expand it beyond just podcast.
• 3:17
  Alban: Alright, joining us today we have Sam Sethi. Sam is a podcaster. He doesn't want you to know this, but he's award winning radio presenter as well.
• 3:22
  Alban: But he's one of the CO hosts on pod land. It's an excellent podcast about the podcast industry that Sam does with James Cridland, the author of pod news. And he's also a martial arts instructor, Sam, Sam, thank you so much for joining us.
• 3:37
  Sam: Hey, guys. It's a pleasure.
• 3:37
  Sam: Thanks for inviting me.
• 3:40
  Alban: So Sam, we both just got back from Podcast Movement in LA where we got to spend some time together record some podcasts.
• 3:47
  Alban: And I thought it'd be interesting for us to maybe talk through some of the things that we experienced the podcast bit of it,
• 3:55
  Sam: Dan love to I think the first thing I'd say is it was amazing to get everyone together after COVID It was good to see faces meet people and think the funny realization is that how tall or small people are because everyone's normally in a zoom square window. James is about six foot five and I'm about four foot two and it was like you know, oh, is that? Okay, because it was the first time James and me had met. So James and I've been doing puttalam for James thinks is 18 months. I think it's a little less, but it's around that timeframe. And we've never met that was the first time we've actually physically met.
• 4:28
  Alban: That's incredible. Yeah, it was really great to see everybody but like to also talk just you know what happened at podcast minute felt like there are a lot of announcements. I had a lot of new insights into the podcasting industry. So one of the start this episode with what's hot and what's not at Podcast Movement 2022. Two things that were hot that I just kept seeing over and over from the stage transcripts and tick tock, you know, the podcast index and Buzzsprout and a lot of others have been working on Transcripts for, I don't know, two and a half years or something now, and we still know that they're not super used by super large amount of podcasters. But I kept hearing a lot about transcripts. And then the other thing was tick tock on stage over and over references to how tick tock is helping podcasters grow. Sam, did you see either of those?
• 5:21
  Sam: Yeah, I mean, I think transcripts is becoming a hot potato. I think James and I have spoken about the fact that John's Birla convention Bellamy did some stats numbers for us.
• 5:31
  Sam: And so it's only just over 1% of podcasts contain the transcript is really, really low says there's loads of growth. I think Sirius XM, they're being sued for non usage of transcripts, you know, in this day and age, as James says, you know, it should be a given to bring in the visually impaired and audio impaired. So, again, the whole idea is that I think once that court case completes, I think every other half is going to go well, hang on, man, I don't want to be next down the road on this being sued. So I think the industry should sort itself out beforehand. There's no reason why not. It doesn't have to be 100%. Perfect. You know, I think the biggest challenge for most podcast creators is oh, okay, I've just not done my podcast, that was an hour now. Gotta go edit it, that's another hour. So now got to tidy up the script.
• 6:19
  Sam: And then, you know, suddenly you're one hour podcast is three, four hours. And I think people go, can't be bothered with the transcript. I think that's where the issue is.
• 6:30
  Kevin: Yeah, I think we're gonna see more and more apps, like developing their own transcript solution. Right? If you look at Sirius XM, they own Pandora. And I'm sure they're probably thinking about, like, if this is going to be a legal problem for us, and podcasters are not at large submitting transcripts to us, then we probably need to come up with our own solution to transcribe them on their behalf.
• 6:49
  Kevin: And I think that'd be a great thing. Like that would be really important. One of the things that holds podcasters back, like you said, is the time involved.
• 6:56
  Kevin: Another thing is the cost involved, transcripts are not cheap to get produced, especially high quality ones are very expensive, lower quality machine produced transcripts are more affordable, but they still cost something and then you know, you're dealing with the quality issue. And so just my hope on this is that as platforms start taking this more seriously, like they should, you know, Apple needs to do something in the transcription world. Spotify does, Google does. Amazon music does, obviously Sirius XM needs to think about it. As we start seeing these solutions come to light, my hope is just that they respect the podcasters. Right to be able to provide their own transcripts should they choose to. And so if you pull down one of our episodes, and there's no transcript in the feed, fine, do your own, you know, solution and present whatever you can because we want to be as inclusive as possible. But if I as the podcaster have uploaded my own transcript, then I want you to use that one. Because, you know, maybe I've edited it, maybe I haven't, but it's the one that I'm putting out there as the creator to go along with my audio content.
• 7:52
  Sam: Yeah. Now, I think the challenge is Amazon announced that they were going to do auto transcription. And again, the problem with auto transcription, because probably most creators going Why can't the big boys just do it for us? Right? It's a no brainer. The problem you've got is if the audio itself is derisory, or derogatory, and the transcription reflects that. Or even worse, Kevin says, you know, I think Donald Trump's the best thing since sliced bread, and the transcription says, here's the devil incarnate. Who gets sued, right? Would you get sued for defamation? Or does Amazon get sued, so I think they're in a very sticky, ground Amazon, if they put auto transcriptions, I think it's what Kevin said, give us the transcription, let us look at it, edit it, and then choose to upload it if we want to, right.
• 8:37
  Sam: And
• 8:39
  Kevin: that's what YouTube has done, right, is that they will auto transcribe on your behalf.
• 8:41
  Kevin: And they will use that. But then they give you the tools where if it's not accurate, you can edit right in their platform. Yeah, the challenge, of course, is going to be, you know, podcasters, we don't just publish to one platform, we publish to dozens of platforms.
• 8:55
  Kevin: And so if like, let's say YouTube, we'll talk about YouTube later getting in the podcasting game, if they go ahead and start providing auto transcripts for everybody, I just hope that maybe there's an opportunity for us to download that, edit it, upload it, make it part of our feeds, so that, you know, I only have to edit once I don't have to go into YouTube and edit I want to go in Amazon and make those same edits and Spotify make those same edits. Sorry.
• 9:15
  Sam: The point, therefore, is, is it beholden on you as the host to provide these tools, right? Because, you know, we happily use Buzzsprout. And, you know, you're great for us because we get all the other tools that you provide. But I have to use something like d script to get my transcription and then I upload it to you guys. But that said, what if you guys for the vast majority of your customer base, he doesn't use something like d script, provided that because then you're then pushing out the 30 other point endpoints. Are you the point where the auto description come from?
• 9:49
  Kevin: I think so. We would love to be and we do have an integration with me right now.
• 9:52
  Kevin: The problem is, is that it's it's not cheap. And so like the majority, I would imagine the majority of what you're subscription to the script goes to pay for a big chunk of it anyway, is paying for the transcription services, right, and so on where we don't want to price ourselves out of the market. So in the hosting space, there is kind of an acceptable price range that you can charge for hosting anything that we do above and beyond that, we have to charge as a separate line item to continue to compete in the hosting game. And so hopefully, prices and auto transcription are going to come down. And we'll be able to offer those at lower and lower prices, where we've been looking at just taking it on and doing ourselves in house that would reduce our costs, which reduce the cost we have to pass on to the customers. But the technology is, it's a huge scale, you know, and it's you can get cheap transcription that is really not very good. It's very inaccurate, and then you can pay more for the higher end stuff. And so yeah, the market just has to continue to evolve. And the pricing needs to come down for somebody smaller like us to be able to absorb that cost without pricing ourselves out of the market. For somebody like an Amazon or YouTube, you know, they have more flexibility.
• 10:56
  Sam: Yeah, I mean, the one other option is, you know, is Pro plus, right, you make it another additional service that people want to choose. But Auburn and I had a good old chat. I mean, it's something that's bugging me, and I don't know whether there's a long term solution.
• 11:08
  Sam: When I go into Buzzsprout, to edit pod land, I put the shownotes in that's HTML, that's great. And I can put links in it hyperlinks, everything else great. And I get a lovely bold and italic. Write, thank you, I then go into chapters somewhere separate. And now I have to put heading titles and links and art image. That's a separate tab to my show notes. And now I go into a third tab called transcriptions, which is actually just pure text. And open Toby, you know, I can go in and put in HTML if I want by hand, but that isn't. So I've taken a really nicely formatted the script document, which has got headers and chapter markers and everything, then exported the SRT that strips the whole thing out, I now get time Mark is on it in a really flat HTML, not an HTML of text file format, right? So now I've got three different bits of content, shownotes chapters, and transcriptions in my little head, it's like, isn't that just one document where, you know, my show notes are basically links within the transcription. And the chapter mark as a title head is like a h1 or an h2, right?
• 12:17
  Sam: Why as an industry? Don't we just combine this into one little thing, and clean the whole thing up? It feels like a legacy problem that's not been addressed? Well,
• 12:27
  Kevin: there's a couple thoughts on that. First, I would suggest that if since you use the script, we do have a descriptive integration. If you publish straight to Buzzsprout, through the descriptive integration, we will actually get your transcript that way. So that saves you a step of having to export the SRT and upload that separately to post bro.
• 12:44
  Sam: There's a bug Kevin? Yeah, they have a bug which have been reported.
• 12:49
  Kevin: This is why we don't like integrations. You're dependent on other people. Yeah,
• 12:53
  Sam: they'll tell the scripts or they're aware. So the thing is, if I, I love doing the integration, so if I take the script, and I push it through to Buzzsprout, directly, he doesn't allow me to send the chapter markers over right, it doesn't take them, the tick box is grayed out. So I have to download it, bring it into the script from the script into Basra. And then you actually it has it, it takes it and it automatically puts my chapter markers in beautifully. So it does work, the whole thing's been set up. But there's a bug on the side of D script at the moment. That doesn't allow you when you press the D Script button to Buzzsprout to actually take chapter markers over.
• 13:31
  Kevin: Oh, that's a bummer.
• 13:31
  Kevin: Okay, well, maybe we can help you with that we can put some pressure on see if we can up the priority on getting that fixed for you. But the back to your original question. I think one of the hard things is that on the podcast, app listening side, these are three separate pieces of information. You have show notes, you have chapter markers, you have transcript, and we actually prefer the transcript in SRT, because then that gives you the opportunity to do more closed captions style transcript rendering than just reading the entire transcript straight. And so I think on the transcript side that needs to stay that way, because to really be an accessibility feature, I think the closed captioning is really what we want to see not just scrolling through an entire transcript to try to find where they are and what word they said. So now we come back to show notes and chapter markers will show notes and chapter markers that could be combined in one document. And some apps do support that, like if you do a timestamp in your show note it will actually link that and jump ahead in the player. The problem that we have is for apps that do really good job of supporting chapter markers is that now that app has to try to parse, where are these timestamps in your show notes? And then like, what is the headline that goes along with them? And then where does that headline break and and maybe you do two returns at the end of yours and somebody else just does one? Well, is that the heading or not? And so now you're talking about a computer trying to parse a document and figure out what you meant to do, and everybody might not format the same way. And so since that stuff becomes problematic, it's easier on computers. We take the guesswork out when we say hey, if these are your chapters, here's how you input them. And here's your show notes. This is just kind of an open form field.
• 14:59
  Kevin: You can do it rewind, I understand what you're saying, as a podcaster, it feels like I'm doing double the work, but it gives you a more predictable output. And if podcast apps would do a good job of kind of following a standard in terms of like, right now, there's two different ways to do chapter markers like, so that's not great. And so like Buzzsprout, we're trying to support both we're trying to, you know, offer 100% support for this new what we feel is a better way to do it. But we also have to offer legacy support. And so there's always there's always struggles.
• 15:26
  Kevin: But the idea comes back to, I think what this ties back to is it's hard to make progress until we have standards. You know, on the web, it was very hard to figure out how to code a webpage appropriately, so it would display properly in Internet Explorer, and back in the day, Netscape and as Firefox was coming on the scene, but what Mozilla Foundation did on the web, was they started developing web standards. And I feel like that's kind of where we need to go. And I think that's what podcast two Dotto is leading the charge on with the new namespace project is that we're developing standards. And standards aren't always 100%, backwards compatible, maybe we figured out a better way to do something moving forward. But the more and more that podcast hosts and apps get on board with a unified standard way of doing things, the more we're going to be able to help podcasters have a consistent presence of how their podcast displays and apps and make their workflow just easier.
• 16:17
  Kevin: It's going to be easier to input this stuff. Because we can now advance our UI since everyone's doing things the exact same way.
• 16:25
  Sam: Yeah, I mean, I agree all comes down to backwards compatibility standards. But I think it's I think we'll look back in a year's time, maybe two years time, we'll we'll have a different standard and different format for it.
• 16:37
  Kevin: Yeah, I think so too. I agree. Things are moving in the right direction. And very rapidly in the open space. Now, of course, we'll we'll always talk about Spotify and Apple continuing to do their own things. But at some point, we might have a better way. And they might come around to our ways of thinking.
• 16:52
  Alban: So jumping back into our outline, we're about two lines in and we've got about 84 to go so we're we're making good hope everyone's enjoying the the digits and has moved on. Things that were I didn't hear a lot about a Podcast Movement are what we're talking about now, podcasting 2.0 talks, I was really excited to, you know, hopefully hear some more about the podcasting 2.0. I heard a lot of talks that raised problems that the podcast 2.0 and podcasts index are trying to solve. And I talked to people who saw these problems, the level of awareness, I was pretty surprised how low it was. I ended up having quite a few conversations with people whose exact issues were solved by the podcast index, or these proposed tags. And it was just surprising it one of the industry events to see very little discussing, you know, these efforts.
• 17:45
  Sam: I'm quite surprised, actually, Adam and Dave weren't there as well. Right. I think having giving them stage time, and a big event like that would have been great. I think that would have been a useful way of bringing podcast index to the mass. Right. Those he said Albin who, who haven't either heard of it or who haven't got a full grasp of it. That would have been a good thing. I think the thing is that people are still getting to grips with, you know, what's the right way of podcasting? I mean, the one thing that came out of the zombies, which is the night before, the podcast industry awards the night before was, again, you know, not one of those production companies cared to jots about whether there was a transcription and whether we were using value for value and Satoshis. This was all about Hollywood type TV production quality, to create a podcast, that was the single goal.
• 18:39
  Alban: Yeah, I missed out on the ambi side, it was able to go that's like the big podcast award show. Sam, was there any controversy? They want to get slapped on stage?
• 18:48
  Sam: No, I'm sure. I actually think it would have been funnier. Had the zombies come after the Oscars. That could have been funny. What was interesting, though, was there was a sprinkling of international awards. So Georgia poet, who I know and Jay Shetty, who I know, as well got two awards, that was great to see.
• 19:04
  Sam: And I think no pineapple studios knocked it out of the park, they got most of the big ones. And 912 won the whole overall best podcast of the year. And I think, you know, what was interesting was the size of the teams behind those podcasts. I mean, we are talking 3040 people producing these are full high end productions, you know, God knows what the budget would have been on those to produce but, you know, that shows the different scale, you know, you can take podcasting up to the, you know, the top of the tree as well, as, you know, the ones that we kind of put together which are, you know, create a lead only. Yeah, it's
• 19:41
  Alban: a totally different world. And we talk about this a lot when people are launching their podcasts and the bar that they're measuring themselves against are some of these really high end shows. And they're saying well, I don't sound closest good. I don't have you know, my editing isn't up to that standard. I'm not doing you know, whatever the sound better and it is good to remember, you're one person in a bedroom recording versus 30 People in studios doing investigative journalism and putting together incredible episodes. It's totally different production quality. But it still does not mean that your show isn't valid, like your shows still valid with what you have to say, this show we're doing right now. It's the three of us that are on the show, and one editor, and that will be the entire for people that ever touched this before you hear it.
• 20:28
  Sam: I was say, to any podcast or matching your audience, I mean, most podcasters if they're doing it for a while ago, you know, a couple 100 People Majan every week, 200 people sat in front of you listening to you do your podcast, that'd be mind blowing good enough for most people, right? Even if it was 30 people, I'd still be impressed to do to 30 people. And so I think the coachee don't get that feedback and interaction, which I think is again, a big problem in podcasting. You know, we talked about transcriptions just now. I think one of the things that 2022 We'll see is comments will become universally available across podcasting apps. And I think podcast is you know, again, I'm sat in my bedroom, and I've got no one. I don't know, if people like my podcast, I've got only a few downloads. I think if those suddenly came back and said, Wow, Kevin Wow. Albin, thanks so much, and got loads of comments back on it, you boost yourself, right? You feel good. And you don't have pod fade? You go back onto the track, and you're running again. So I think it's the industry that we're in and the technology that's available that probably is limiting how certain podcasts creators feel, but I think we'll fix that this year as well.
• 21:38
  Alban: I think you're right, too. One of the first things we did at podcasting, it was we watched the presentation of infinite dial, which is Tom Webster, from Edison Research, they put together this really great, I mean, in depth actual study where they survey tons of Americans, and they learn what social apps do you use? Do you know about podcasts? Do you watch people stream stuff on Twitch? And they just learned what kind of media are you consuming? And what are your habits around it have any insights that you pulled away from this, Sam?
• 22:09
  Sam: I think what we saw, again, from that media was that people have moved away from I guess, traditional old radios that you know, our parents may have had.
• 22:17
  Sam: Smart speakers certainly are the main way that they consume now radio and podcasting wise, again, we saw a slight decline in in home listening because people are going back to work.
• 22:29
  Sam: But we saw a rise in use of car, podcast listening, I want to kept thinking about Tom, where's the person walking the dog? And where's the person gardening?
• 22:40
  Sam: None of those seem to come out.
• 22:40
  Sam: You know. I don't know if that's called home. But you know, that's when I listened to most my podcasts. So I think again, we saw an interesting thing was the younger generation are coming into podcasting. Now.
• 22:55
  Sam: It's, you know, I've got a 22 year old daughter who doesn't listen to radio doesn't have any interest or she'll Spotify music. But she's now listening to podcasts. And she's loving it. And she'll choose that medium over radio probably more times than she will any other medium.
• 23:11
  Kevin: Yeah, I can echo that and back it up. I have a 16 year old daughter, and it's not uncommon for me to get in her car now.
• 23:16
  Kevin: And listen, she's listening to a podcast, it just fires up in her car. And she's since Spotify is banned in our household. She uses the apple podcast app.
• 23:22
  Kevin: Which I guess is okay, if you can't use Spotify, he may as well use another you know, big companies app. But um, yeah, she's huge into she stumbled into the true crime, I think as a recommendation of my wife, and now she loves it. And she asked me at least once a week, she's like, Dad, what's the next podcast I should listen to? So
• 23:41
  Sam: I think that's great that kids are getting into more diverse content. I think music radio is on the decline. That's the one thing we do know talk radio is on the increase I think radio DJs who were tastemakers in our youth are no longer tastemakers, right? Because, again, Apple Spotify. I didn't want to open you're too young.
• 23:59
  Sam: But you know, Kevin, man, you probably more likely, you know, I had my one album actually, Kevin, you're younger than me as well. So I had my one album that I burned to death on a needle, you know, listened to everything looked at every lyric because I couldn't afford more than that.
• 24:14
  Sam: You know, maybe, you know next month I got a second album. So everything I did was like press record on to tape recorder to get tracks off the radio. And now 1499 My daughter has 4 million tracks right so she doesn't need radio to be the tastemaker like we did.
• 24:32
  Alban: Few other insights I pulled from the infinite dial tic tock is crushing it over and over just kept getting trolled home that time spent on tick tock the amount of people of tick tock accounts. The internet bandwidth being consumed by tick tock is massive. It is by far the fastest growing platform.
• 24:52
  Alban: It's really hurting some of the other social platforms because tick tock has grown so much and anecdotally we Now hat. I don't know, four or five people who've said, this has been the entire growth channel for my podcast.
• 25:05
  Alban: People are putting up short clips to tick tock, you know, mostly it's story driven podcasts that tell a story and they say if you want the rest of it, check out the podcast, and a few of them. It has been incredible.
• 25:19
  Sam: Looking forward to you and Kevin on tick tock than, you know. Oh,
• 25:22
  Kevin: you need to get on tick tock then and see Albin Alba's huge on tick tock
• 25:27
  Alban: Plus Pro does have a tick tock channel, Seth, it's a I know you have a joke account for pod news, or for pod lads. But we actually have a real one with a few 1000 followers. Now. I'm not a dancing to latest music, but it's a lot of the stuff we would put on YouTube.
• 25:43
  Sam: Oh, brilliant. Okay. And so again, I think this brings us in nicely to conversations I think we want to have one is the new Spotify that has got a tick tock stream that's coming to Spotify.
• 25:56
  Sam: I said discovery streams. And the idea behind it is that short little tick tock type videos, but I think he's going to be audio. But you know, Kevin, we spoke pre the show about video will probably touch on in a minute. But I think that's exciting to see that that tick tock Isaiah is that even a word of the internet is, is spreading out to others. And I think they realize the stickiness of that continual movement of the stream up and down, you know, to get content and sticky quick content is really good. So yeah, Kevin I and help. And I, I interviewed Chris Messina yesterday and we talked about what's new or what's coming in Spotify.
• 26:35
  Kevin: Yeah. And I love that stuff. I feel like you know, I put that in the category of Spotify helping people find their next best podcast, which of all the things I object to Spotify for doing that's not one of them. I want them to help people find their next favorite podcast, and listen to more podcasts, even if it is through Spotify. So I love that. We know we talked a little bit last week about this new app rumble and rumble does something very similar to that. They obviously don't have the scale that Spotify has. But I think there is something to that idea.
• 27:01
  Kevin: There's something to, you know, how can we take a long form media and give you enough that you're interested in partaking in the long form. And so it makes sense to me in listening apps that, hey, we'll give you a 32nd or 62nd clip, hopefully, it'll be engaging enough that you in one tap of your button can cue that up in your podcast list to listen to the full episode later. So I think it's great that Spotify is doing, I think that everyone needs to be doing that Apple needs to be doing something like that overcast Pocket Casts, all the, you know, cast ematic, all the little third party apps that are out there, they should all be looking and thinking about this, like YouTube has gotten as good as they are. Because they focused primarily on how do we keep people on platform. So how do we keep people? How do we serve up that next video, and it's really not something that podcast apps are doing very well right now is that when I get to the end of an episode that I'm listening to, it's kind of on me to have built my own queue, or go find the next podcast I want to listen to they're not recommending anything for me, they're not helping me find the next best show. And so I don't love the idea of algorithms. But I do love the idea of like social connectivity, good pods has stepped into this good pods could easily create a UI where I can just flip through all the podcasts that my friends have rated highly. And so there are different solutions or different takes. I want to see more and more of this come to podcasting because I love the medium. And I know there's 1000 shows out there that I haven't discovered yet, but I would really enjoy.
• 28:16
  Kevin: So
• 28:18
  Sam: it does bring back the onus on creators right to create their trailer, right, everyone should have a trailer. So even if every app eventually takes this tick tock style stream to give you a taster. I'm pretty sure that episode zero as I like to call it isn't done by everybody. That should be a no brainer. And secondly, Albin, you were talking about, you know, our podcast movement, one of the things you didn't hear a lot of was audio grams, right.
• 28:42
  Sam: And clipping capabilities. So, again, you know, we should begin to see like, there's a third party app called snippets, that does a really good job of that fountain does a good job of that as well, you know, allowing you as a user to create content to share, but also as creators, you should be able to do the same thing. And I think, you know, there are tools out there, you know, headliners got a good tool D scripts got a good tool for creating audiogram. So, as creators, we haven't got an excuse other than, again, oh, my God, it's more to do. You know, I've just done the podcast, do I have to do all this other stuff.
• 29:18
  Sam: But you know, for discovery, I guess if you want your podcast to be more than five people in your mom and dad, you need to do the work. And I think we'll see clipping and short form audiograms becoming much more important issue as well.
• 29:35
  Alban: Sam, I can hear people yelling at their, their podcast apps right now. Because you just dropped something say like, you actually know quite a bit about what Spotify is bringing out in their next update, which is going to have a bunch of podcasting features. Can you tell us about this? Because that is basically the entire purpose of this show is that people are exposed to oh, here's what might happen in the future. You're listening to Have you love podcasting? And you want to know, how am I going to reach my next batch of listeners? So can you tell us a bit more about what you know? Yeah, so
• 30:08
  Sam: they've got a new podcast menu item. So they're splitting it out. One of the biggest challenges we've had in Spotify is app is I go for music, and then I stumble upon the podcast by mistake or have to search for it. Now they've got a dedicated button. As we said, there's going to be a tick tock style stream where you can just flick through it with a plus button to add the episode to your playlist or a queue. So then again, that playlist is there, we're not sure whether that playlist will be collaborative, like the music one. So you can share your playlist of episodes that you've collated. Clearly, it's not going to be an open standard, it's not going to use something like OPML. So you know, good luck with sharing that outside of Spotify. But that said and done, that's where they've gone.
• 30:54
  Sam: Now, the things that we don't know is how does that stream get formulated for each individual?
• 30:57
  Sam: Is it based on your social graph within Spotify? Because there is one? Or is it based on the podcast that you've previously listened to? Or do you have to train it in another way? So again, none of that's available yet until you get your hands on it. But there will be an algorithm as you said, Kevin behind it, the other one that we're not sure on. But again, we'll wait and see, you know, you can connect Spotify to your Facebook social graph and see your friends music that they're currently playing. Will they extend that to show what podcasts that you're currently playing? We don't know, either.
• 31:29
  Sam: But we hope that they will do that. And then beyond that, I guess what we're seeing with it is they have added captions, or they've had transcripts, which we talked about a few minutes ago. But those at the moment only come from Spotify created IP podcasts. So it looks like they're manually adding those there is no generic Creator tool. But then again, they own megaphone and they own hanker.
• 31:55
  Sam: So it's not very hard for them to extend those capabilities into the platform. And then the other thing I think, we talked about pre show is the use of video. And again, video is there for shows like Joe Rogan, and there's music videos. So again, we expect video to be part of what they deliver for podcasts.
• 32:16
  Alban: Yeah, a ton of super interesting things, you know, coming in, I think the one that really is exciting to me is that tick tock experience of watching a video and flicking through as it gets boring, though just now has been duplicated across Facebook and Instagram, and YouTube is so compelling. And I don't know how it's gonna work in a podcast, which, you know, most podcasts have taken me multiple episodes that are 45 minutes long, or something to actually learn that I truly love that podcast. But I mean, I saw the video that maybe you shared, or somebody shared on Twitter, and I started seeing shows that I liked. And then I thought, oh, like, I need to try this. Like, I want to find some new shows.
• 32:57
  Alban: So I will be very interested to see and test out this, you know how they've adopted something that works really well for video, and then bring it into the audio realm?
• 33:08
  Sam: Yeah, well, they've used the acquisition they had of a company called pods. I don't know if you remember that. And that's the background technology. So what they're using is a piece of AI from within pods to actually try and find the best clippable path.
• 33:21
  Sam: How that works. You know, again, it's a black box. But if it does work, and it works well, again, that's one of the biggest challenges for all of us, right?
• 33:30
  Sam: When we go back and listen to our own shows, we're going out, I wonder what's the bit that I want to send out to the world, there is a really good tool in the world called lately that I don't know if you guys have come across lately, and you can put your feed into it. And it produces 10 or 15 clickable items from your feed, and then create a Hootsuite like calendar to then push them out across multiple platforms on a timed basis. Because, again, one of the challenges is you create one audiogram and you put it out onto Twitter, LinkedIn. And that's it. You're done your work, you know, you sit back for the week until next week. Well, reality is we all know that our streams fly past us. And if we don't see that tweet, or we don't see that piece in LinkedIn or Facebook, it's gone. So we don't see it. But so what lately look at is, you know, how can you pump out probably 10 or 15 pieces of content from one podcast? And then how can you automate that? So that's quite a cool tilters use as well.
• 34:30
  Alban: That's incredible. So I've just pulled it up. We will definitely have to check this out before the next episode, and maybe start publishing a couple of our own lately clips.
• 34:39
  Kevin: Yeah. And I will say this since we're talking about clips, and and there is a podcast namespace tag for this. And it's called Sound by tag. So it's podcast Colin soundbite and what you can do in the soundbite tag is you can highlight a timestamp and then you can say how long it is. So you can say you know, 1251 This is a highlight and you can get a title if you want And then you can say it's 36 seconds long or something like that. So that stuff can exist in your feed Buzzsprout gives you a way to do it, if you create a sound bite inside of Buzzsprout, it actually adds that to your feed.
• 35:08
  Kevin: So then when podcast apps, pull your feed, they can read it, and they can say, oh, there's a 36 second highlight at 1251. And then they could surface that, again, we just need more adoption, if they're acquiring artificial intelligence to go ahead and find clips themselves that are effective, fantastic.
• 35:24
  Kevin: But if not, podcasters, should have a way to tell these apps.
• 35:28
  Kevin: Hey, this is actually a really good segment of my show. And here's another one later on smart AI
• 35:33
  Alban: is it says we can figure it out if you don't tell us but if you tell us that's a very strong signal that a person the Creator has said, this is actually a very interesting piece,
• 35:42
  Sam: I should say, because I've not Buzzsprout. But you know, you guys have done an amazing job of supporting the podcast index. And, you know, there is transcription within Buzzsprout, there is audio grams within Buzzsprout. And I guess it's the chicken and egg scenario, you know, you guys have done a great job of providing those tools.
• 35:57
  Sam: But then the front end apps aren't adopting those tools. I had a great joke the other day, which was I've just ordered a chicken and an egg on Amazon, I'll let you know which comes first.
• 36:10
  Kevin: We had a similar conversation, we started supporting the namespace like, kind of, you know, we're pushing into it about a year and a half ago. And I remember the original pitch to do that within our company ended with the same type of sentiment was, you know, this is a chicken and an egg problem.
• 36:23
  Kevin: But as Buzzsprout like, let's just say that we're a chicken and we're gonna go ahead and lay an egg, we're just gonna do it, we're gonna go for it. And if anybody picks it up, you know, it makes an omelet than they do.
• 36:30
  Kevin: But uh, that's where we are, we continue to push into it. That analogy was bad, I guess you need you shouldn't make an omelet, or else you're never gonna have another chicken, you should let that let the egg hatch. But yeah, we're pushing in. And we do need more support from podcast app players. And we need more support from other hosts like this should not be a competitive thing. This shouldn't be like I choose Buzzsprout. Because they support these tags. And this host doesn't it's like we all just need to join together. I don't want this to be an IAB thing.
• 36:53
  Kevin: Remember, when it became a thing, it was oh, you need to host with us because we're IV certified instead of like a more friendly community thing of this is in the best interest of the community at large for all of us to be measuring by the same set of standards. And I think the same thing needs to apply with the tags that we support and how we support them. Like we can differentiate ourselves on how we implement it, how easy we make it, how smart we make it, but the tag itself should be a standard, right? And we all just need to build to that standard.
• 37:17
  Sam: A rising tide raises all boats agreed.
• 37:23
  Alban: One thing I'd love to kind of touch on funny things that happened at Podcast Movement. I ran into Amy and Stuart, the team behind racket.
• 37:29
  Alban: And so we highlighted racket last episode, and we talked about it was you know, it's a relatively new audio app. And we talked about it for I don't know a good 10 minutes. And I saw the team I saw their name tags, and I was like, Oh, we actually know racket day it said, Oh, we listened to bus gas. We heard it. It apparently enough of you.
• 37:51
  Alban: Our listeners went over to racket and started putting in podcasting rackets that they were like, they reached out to somebody, right? How did you hear about this? Where are we getting an influx of people putting their podcasts and someone said, Oh, it was on bus cast, go check it out. And so they found us. Thank you to everyone who went and tested it out. They seem like wonderful people who have a good idea for an app. So yeah, keep up the great work and check out racket for your podcasts. Alright, so a couple of last things to talk about a Podcast Movement. I had quite a few conversations about podcasts index offstage, none of it was happening on to indie apps came up to ask me, How can I get a Buzzsprout shows into my new AP? And I said, Oh, we'd love to do they like, Yeah, I'm talking to all the hosts about setting up ways for them to submit direct to us? Well, I think the best thing for you to do would be to work with the podcast index. And one of them had never heard of it had spoken to, I mean, at least a couple of our competitors, and was trying to set these, you know, distribution lanes up. And she said, I think you've just saved me weeks of work. Like the fact that I can get, you know, the 4 million plus feeds that are out there publicly available into my app right now is massive. So I don't think if the podcast index isn't solving problems, I think it's that sometimes people don't know that it's solving their specific problem. And then I had somebody come up and tell me, they were really interested in crypto and I asked if they were using fountain or cast Matic and doing lightning payments, and they said, no, they think that value for value might be too valuable. So what I heard here was basically bitcoin is so good, that people are probably gonna be hesitant to part with their Bitcoin and donate instead we should be focusing on coins that nobody is really worried about. They give away away their Bitcoins. So maybe the value for value tag is too popular and it's working too well for podcasters. But as you'll hear later in the show, a lot of people are getting us boost and we appreciate all of them. Any comments on that Kevin?
• 40:01
  Kevin: I don't even know what to say about that. I mean, you could always just give less Satoshis if you think it's too valuable. But that's kind of how money works is if it's you know, more valuable, you can give less than if the value is waning like the US dollar, then you just need to give a lot more.
• 40:15
  Sam: I think the one thing that people haven't appreciated so that all the work on value for value and Satoshis is great.
• 40:21
  Sam: People think it's very geeky in and out there, you know, you have to have, you know, your own server running everything, and you have to do all this stuff.
• 40:28
  Sam: Here's a quick one for everyone to look out, go to your Twitter account, go to the podcast index account, and have a look at the top of the screen, there's $1 sign, click on it. And whoa, look, it pops up with bitcoins and Satoshis is payments. And then it says click on your digital wallet, and it opens up cash out which is Jack Dorsey's other company, and fundamentally in America, not here, all the rest of the world, you can then put in, you know, $20, convert that instantly to sach. And then you'll get you know, I don't know what the number will be 20 million SATs, let's say, or some crazy high number anyway for certain. And then you can go back into Twitter, and you can literally, instead of giving a heart or a retweet, you can give that creator a Satoshi. Now all of that's there and it works.
• 41:14
  Sam: It's fairly simple and seamless.
• 41:17
  Sam: What hasn't happened yet, is the promotion hasn't kicked in from Twitter. We don't know why. But when that 300 million people learn, that's there. And it's a couple of clicks away from being usable. And again, with fountains very simple as well, that learning curve now, you mentioned Kevin earlier, you know, Netscape and standards. I mean, I was the product manager across Europe for Netscape Communicator, and I was in the middle of that HTML war, right.
• 41:41
  Sam: And I remember ActiveX, and I remember Microsoft, trying to hijack the whole thing is why I called Apple, the internet explorer of podcasting, they hate me for it. But fundamentally, you know, the proprietary standards units did try and they got further and faster at the time, because they can be more nimble with their developer teams and just go ahead of us, but the open standards one hour, and again, I think the language at that time, I remember coming to people to it's called HTTP GET I know, colon, colon, get adult. And yet it's called a URL. And people look to me like I'm talking Swahili, right? And it was like, that's never going to catch on whatever you're doing well never catch on. course, we all know what happened. And I think we're in that same language barrier.
• 42:27
  Sam: Now. When you say to somebody, you need a digital wallet, and you need a Satoshi and you need this and that. And that's how you make it and I think people are just like, all this sounds all too scary in his money. I'll stick with just giving you a like, and that's, that's safe.
• 42:43
  Sam: Yeah.
• 42:43
  Alban: And then a couple congratulations to friends of the show who had something big happen at Podcast Movement.
• 42:49
  Alban: Harry Duran, who runs podcast junkies gave an incredible talk.
• 42:53
  Alban: Really, really great talk, I shared a few of the things that I really liked about it on Twitter, but I think we need to get hairy on a video or a podcast or something for Buzzsprout because he really did a great job breaking down somebody who's been in the industry for a long time launching a new show, and he did some really, really good stuff Braziel bring all his knowledge to bear on what does it take to launch a good show the right way? And really, really insightful. So Harry great job on the talk, and we will try to bring some of that to you in the near future. Ariel Nissim blot, who does earbuds audio Collective is joining pod news with James Cridland. But she's really exciting, big friend of the show. And she has been doing this for years, she brings out a weekly newsletter, highlighting five podcast episodes that you would enjoy. If you're looking for new podcast episodes, check out earbuds we'll link to that.
• 43:42
  Alban: But a huge shout out to her and congratulations for joining pod news. And then last EVO Tara, another friend of the show was inducted into the podcasting Hall of Fame. He's one of the first 100 people to launch a podcast and has been doing his shows since the early 2000s. So congratulations to EVO, well, all three of those well deserved. We really appreciate all three of you. So Sam and I went to a talk on YouTube. And I was like taking photos because it was a packed out room. We were talking everybody the complete rooms filled there standing room only there's people all around the walls. And I'm thinking YouTube, podcasting is an IT something is about is about to drop, and nothing came out. And it was lots of good information about the YouTube space and how podcasts work on YouTube. But nothing was announced. But in the few days since podcasts movement. I think Sammy might have been the one to say it sounds like they were working on something and it just didn't happen soon enough. But what if we started to learn?
• 44:49
  Sam: So yeah, I mean, chi Chuck, I guess disappointed a very large room of people. But, you know, as we said it may be that they weren't ready and they couldn't announce but James has got the exclusive on pod news dotnet. And it looks like they're gonna ingest RSS, they looks like they're gonna have created pages. And if you add it to what Kai Chuck did say, you know, fundamentally, they already support comments, they have a monetization mechanism through advertising, they have a very smart algorithm for discovery. So you know, as a platform, a lot of the tools that we've talked about earlier, are there, there'll be transcriptions. So look, you know, that element of adding now ingesting RSS, and actually being able to display that as a separate tab, I'm guessing, will be quite powerful. Going back to the podcast index, again, it will be interesting whether they actually use any of that enhanced tags. You know, we know that Apple haven't yet we know that Spotify haven't yet, which is a shame. It'd be great. If, you know, Google Amazon, or in this case, YouTube did, and sort of broke the mold and started to do things even if it's just as simple as the transcription tag within the RSS has been supported. That would be just a nice start.
• 46:04
  Kevin: Yeah, I think the million dollar question here is when we see that word, RSS ingestion.
• 46:07
  Kevin: What exactly do they mean by that? We know like that means they're gonna use the RSS feed in some way. The question for me, is that mean that you're going to pass the plays through to the hosting companies? Or are you going to download these files and re host them yourselves? You know, there's pros and cons to both, you know, from a YouTube perspective, they're going to give you or be able to give you better statistics and analytics if they hosted the files themselves. But people who have tried that, in the past in the podcasting industry have gotten pushed back to the point where they figured it wasn't worth it anymore. If y'all remember, that is exactly how Spotify started. Spotify first started by Re hosting files. And there were enough podcasters in the space, who pushed back on that made transferring those stats from Spotify into podcast hosts very difficult, and the adoption wasn't there. And so Spotify was having trouble getting enough traction doing that, that they came up with what they called pass through. And you know, to us, that was a little bit funny, because that was, you know, they put a name around something that everybody else had been doing all along. But they came around to the idea of we should probably be working with podcast hosting companies instead of trying to become like a free host for every podcast that exists. And so I'm very interested to see which ways YouTube goes about this. And again, I think either one of those options is a deathblow to podcasting. But how are we going to work with it? What is it gonna look like for the Creator?
• 47:25
  Kevin: What is it going to look like for the hosting companies? What data are we going to get? What data are they going to get? How are we all going to work together? And they're very smart people. So I'm optimistic that they might come up with a great idea, a great solution, but I just don't know what it is yet.
• 47:37
  Kevin: And I really can't wrap my head around. Like, I don't know where to place my chips. If I was making a
• 47:41
  Alban: bet. Yeah. And what is the audio first experience look like? Got a question.
• 47:46
  Sam: I was gonna say, can I ask you as hosts? Because this is great for me as an interviewee actually, I've got two brilliant hosts here of a leading Buzzsprout company. So look, if let's say they ingest RSS in the standard way, right, which is what we'd hope they do from you as a host. Does that mean again, you're going to provide a video capability hosting service on Buzzsprout? What does that mean for you in terms of, you know, hosted storage and costs? And we talked about maybe a transcription service with a Pro Plus maybe, you know, are you going to go pro plus and say, right, well, you can upload your video to us now. And then we'll push that out. Because, again, Kevin, you mentioned just before we went on air look, Spotify has a video capability already built into it. We know Joe Rogan does it and we know music videos, you showed us quite reminded us that Apple already has a video capability. So again, suddenly, does podcasting as a word become very narrow down you know, given the infinite dial talked about.
• 48:42
  Sam: Tick tock, and YouTube Alban, if you remember being big platform plays, and we've got companies now like Adoree, and headliner that allies take your audio and push it out to YouTube, suddenly, YouTube seems to be the platform that everyone or video seems to be the platform in our podcasting world, that is going to be the next thing to put out there. What do you guys think? Would you like to host video? I guess that's my question. At the end of all of that,
• 49:13
  Alban: I've always said, you know, we we've been getting this question since 2014. or so people are saying, Oh, what about video podcast, those are really big. And well, we always said is, the idea of a file that you're going to send directly to people's phones to be auto downloaded? Just doesn't make as much sense when we're talking about massive video files.
• 49:32
  Alban: People need to opt in to watch video. With audio file being auto delivered makes a lot more sense, especially when we start thinking about other countries where data can just be so much more expensive. You know, we talked about doing different enclosures in podcasting, just so that in some countries like the cost of data is so expensive that even the lightweight mp3 files are too much. And then the other piece is YouTube is a great experience for this you know the ability to upload videos for free, get distribution to millions of viewers for your video podcast, that I think if you want to be doing video podcasting, I don't think it should be on Buzzsprout I think it should be on YouTube, and then take the audio component and put that over on Buzzsprout. So that you can distribute the audio piece to everywhere in the world and build your own personal Empire the own yourself in the audio space. What do you think?
• 50:25
  Kevin: Yeah, generally, at a high level, I completely agree with you. And I would say this, like, We firmly believe that audio and video are very different experiences, and there's different benefits. And they're, they're totally different mediums in terms of the opportunity to consume each that you have in in a day. And so what YouTube has done in the video space, and tick tock is moving into it aggressively is that they've said, Look, we know that people have one to two hours of which they can dedicate generally to staring at a screen during the day. And we want to own as much of that as possible.
• 50:58
  Kevin: And we feel a bus route, people have at least that or more time that you can dedicate to audio where I don't have to stare at a screen, but I can enjoy entertainment just by listening.
• 51:07
  Kevin: And so that's what we're pushing into. And what we're super excited about. I'd like the idea of these audio, or just the video first platforms, figuring out what they can bring to the audio space. But I don't think it's going to ever replace the audio only experience, I think what it can do is it can change it. And it can supplement it, it can be a way for people to discover new shows that exist an audio only format. But I don't think it's a replacement. There are certainly some podcasters, who are doing a show right now that if they had a video component, it might be a better show. But I think it's not a lot. It's a few people. And then there are people that do an audio show that would have a fine experience if it also had a video component. But I don't think that's a lot. I think the best audio podcasts that we're listening to today are best suited to just listening to them. I don't need to see the talking heads, I don't need to see, you know, the journalists sitting in their door cutting up this stuff to make a compelling audio story. I don't need video for any of that. But I think why podcasters are getting so excited about it is because they see a bunch of YouTube channels that have exploded, they have discoverability solved and they push, you know content that starts resonating with people, they push it to other like minded people. And that's not something that exists really in the podcasting world. So I think that's really the draw that's pulling podcasters in to say, Oh, I got to do something in video, I gotta do something in video, because then I'm going to get discovered, but I don't think it's necessary. And I do think Albin is right, like, if you want to use video platforms to help your podcast grow or get discovered, there are ways to do that. I don't think it necessarily means pushing up, you know, converting your audio only show to a video show like you can do a clips channel. If you can create Tik Tok videos, you can use that stuff. And so we would as a host, we're constantly trying to figure out are there ways that we can help our podcasters grow their show?
• 52:46
  Kevin: Yes. And would we use YouTube and Tiktok integrations or, or work with those platforms enable to make those things as easy as possible for our traders?
• 52:55
  Kevin: Absolutely. Are we going to transform into a video hosting company? Yeah, probably not.
• 53:01
  Sam: I'd say the one thing going back to standards, the enclosure tag, which is part of the podcast index tag does support again, you know, mp3 or best, so low end mp3 type sound for countries where it's expensive data, but it also supports mp4 So and if YouTube are going to ingest it, and if they were taking an RSS feed, they would then to add, so that's your video because what you said was fundamentally, as a creator, I would then go to YouTube and upload separately my video content from my audio content.
• 53:30
  Sam: So then I'm thinking, Well, why am I getting the RSS feed in there as well? If I'm doing a video podcast, and that's the platform, why am I giving the audio podcast RSS. So for me, as a creator, I want to crack I'm just telling you, what I'd like doesn't mean it'll happen is I'd want to come to Buzzsprout and I want to upload my video and my audio to the same point. I want it to then be transcribed, captioned and everything else within you. And then you deal with the output of that platforms because if the output is to Spotify and Apple with video as well and possibly audio Graham's tending to Tik Tok Graham's art should all come in my humble opinion from you guys, where I use your platform as the creator platform. And then the distribution from you is to the end point. Otherwise, why would RSS into YouTube make any sense if all I'm doing is putting up the video anyway, independently?
• 54:26
  Sam: Because audio RSS as a podcast on YouTube with a static file doesn't make any sense to me.
• 54:33
  Alban: I think what you're saying makes perfect sense for people who are creating video content as well. And for people who are creating video content, yeah, it'd be amazing to be able to upload one place and then they figure out sending all this data everywhere for you and getting it into all the channels and if it's YouTube, then you're actually getting the video plus the transcripts and everything that you already uploaded one time, but for a lot of podcasters they're not creating any video assets. But what they really want is YouTube distribution. And so there's all these weird workarounds that we've never built, which are like, hey, we'll send your audio file with a static image over to YouTube, and create, in my opinion, very, very poor YouTube experience. But what I am hopeful for is with YouTube saying we are going to be ingesting RSS feeds. They know this RSS feeds don't have imagery. Besides maybe the a couple images, they're static, they know that they don't, aren't filmed for video first.
• 55:30
  Alban: So I'm hoping that they're creating basically a YouTube experience where you go and you watch videos, but you also can listen to some music. And you can also listen to some podcasts. And when you're listening to podcasts, they're saying, this is an audio first experience that we're introducing into the YouTube app or into a different YouTube podcasting app or something. So it makes me very hopeful that the way we're going to solve this problem is by YouTube saying, Here's what a good audio first experience looks like. And we figured that out, rather than trying to convince 4 million podcasters to set up home studios and start recording themselves all around the world.
• 56:08
  Kevin: Yeah, I think the best ultimate experience on the YouTube side would be that when they're ingesting RSS feeds, if there is a video component in there, you may be able to somehow connect with your host, like oh auth into your host or something connect to your YouTube channel. And then when they're ingesting your feed, they pick up a video, they throw it into your YouTube channel for you like that is something that they're not going to give up hosting video files, they're not going to allow a host like Buzzsprout to host his video files. Because the statistics that they provide the engines that they built to drive, all of that stuff is so integrated into their ad platform, which is where they make all their money.
• 56:39
  Kevin: So I think that's totally fine.
• 56:39
  Kevin: If you find a video file in a feed, and you want to ingest that and connect it to a channel, that's a quick way for publishers to get more content into their YouTube channel. But in terms of what they're pressing into, and the new audio first experience that it looks like they're building, I agree with album that I think that just needs to be, you know, you switch mentally when you switch between tabs or sections of the YouTube app that now I'm listening. I'm not watching.
• 57:01
  Sam: Yeah, I think the one that James and I have talked about is because Buzzsprout does allow, as we said earlier, Chapter imagery, what could be useful is instead of just having a single static image with your audio RSS that as you go through the chapters, it actually pulls up that different image. Now, the Buzzsprout audio player already does that, right. So for example, if anyone uses the audio player with POD land, because we we put all of our chapter art in, he will change to show you the logo of the company that we're referencing, and a link to that. Now, if that same RSS was being played in the same way in YouTube, and every time it goes to the next chapter, the chapter aren't changed, and there was maybe a link in the show notes, but maybe a cool way of doing it as well, I
• 57:45
  Alban: guess. So Sam, you also said you know a bit about Twitter podcasts as well. I feel like you are giving us some insight into a bunch of new apps that are probably gonna be adding podcasting. What do you know about Twitter besides a few things that been leaked?
• 57:59
  Sam: Yeah. So Twitter, again, a really interesting platform, they have said, there's going to be a Twitter button fundamentally within the client or twitter tab. The idea is, again, that it's discovery more than playability. But so the first part we think, will be your social graph discovering what podcasts that you've promoted, and giving you a feed of those podcasts for you to look out. Again, does that move it to be more like a tick tock thing? Again? Will there be a feed that you can scroll through? Or just be links? We don't know yet. I mean, I'm sure that the developers now have just seen what Spotify have done, and probably going back to the changing stuff. So that's one thing. The other thing is, there was a lot of worry that Twitter spaces would just be the place it was just going to be recorded Twitter spaces, right.
• 58:48
  Sam: But if you look at Twitter's just change the icon for spaces from a four dots to a microphone icon, which is quite interesting. And again, I think when we look at Twitter, will it allow you and I to take the RSS feed from our host? And put that into our profile? Is that the way they're going to do it?
• 59:07
  Sam: They've already created a audio player. So one of the questions in the early demos was, when I click on the link, it took me to Spotify or Apple or overcast or wherever to play my podcast, it took me out of Twitter. But actually, we all know, these platforms want to be walled garden. So why would they want to spend all the time getting us to pay attention to Twitter, click a link and go away. So they already have playback client for Twitter spaces. So they already have an audio client capability. So you take that same capability and said, Look, here's the feed from you know, Sam's RSS and click bang, he plays it within the client, that would make more sense. So, again, it's still early days, but it's interesting to see them moving into that space. And we talked about the more disporting value for value. Again, will they support captions, transcripts, comments or comments? There is your social graph of Twitter. So a lot of good stuff.
• 1:00:07
  Alban: Kevin, could you also talk to us a little bit about Apple podcasts and some new things that they launched? Sure.
• 1:00:12
  Alban: So Apple,
• 1:00:13
  Kevin: you know, hot on the heels of an update that we gave in the last episode, they've come out with something else, which is now they are going to display the number of followers that you have in your apple podcast statistics. So the easiest way to jump into their from your Buzzsprout account is just click on the stats tab, and then scroll down to the bottom, we have links to Apple and Spotify and Google right down there at the bottom. So click on the apple one, it'll jump you into Apple podcast connect, where you will log in, and they are going to be adding some new statistics. And the biggest and best one, obviously, as followers, people have asked about this for a long time. And it's a really simple number. I don't know what the holdup was in bringing this to the creators that are getting listens to their app, but it's just the number of people who are listening to your podcast who have clicked the Follow button, the difference there is you can search in Apple podcasts, or you can browse and you can find podcasts and you can just listen to it. Or you can actually you know, the old word was subscribed, the new word is follow, but it adds it to your library. And that kind of shows some level of commitment to that show that you're, you know, a different level of fan, you're not just casually passing by and listening that you actually want to be notified maybe of new episodes that come on, or you want to make a commitment to listen to the entire back catalogue. It's super helpful, because it's one of the numbers that everybody wants to know, we show the number of downloads in Buzzsprout. But everybody always asks, well, how many subscribers do I have? How many followers do I have? And that's not information that we have access to at the host level, because that just lives at each individual app. And so you've been able to see different representations of this through those different statistics platforms. For a while now, Apple has been kind of, for whatever reason, they've held this number back, and now they're giving it to us. So this is great news for anybody that logs in and checks your stats in apple on a regular basis. I think this starts sometime in April. They said it's in the article that we'll link to, but in the next couple of weeks, they're going to add this number to your dashboard. And you'll be able to see exactly how many people are following your podcast and apple. Yeah, one other
• 1:01:58
  Alban: announcement they made was not applicable to everybody who listens to the show. But if you have an apple podcast subscription, they're going to have mp3 support for your audience. So rather than uploading a giant wav file, now you can upload mp3 there as well maybe simplify a couple of people's workflows.
• 1:02:14
  Kevin: You know what time it is.
• 1:02:14
  Kevin: It's time for Alright, so yes, thank you so much to all of our listeners who are using a new value for value enabled podcast listening app. The two that we talk about and recommend all the time are cast ematic and fountain either one are great, I suggest you download both and figure out which one you like the most. There might be some other ones out there. So head to new podcast apps comm and find one that's good for you and start boosting your favorite podcast. Our commitment here Buzzsprout is every Satoshi that we collect their a booster grant program, we are willing to give back out to podcasters. So if you load up one of those apps on your phone and you find out you have a Satoshi wallet, but it doesn't have any Satoshis in it, you can always DM me on Twitter, it's at K fin. Shoot me an invoice for 5000 SATs or less I will pay your invoice so that you can start supporting your favorite podcasts. So, Ross Wynn is our first booster he is from he runs a website and a podcast called podcast insights. He sent us 70,000 SATs roughly wasn't exactly 70,000. But yeah, almost 70,000 sets, the exact number
• 1:03:19
  Alban: is 69 for 20. I don't know what that implies Kevin, but uh,
• 1:03:23
  Kevin: it doesn't matter. It's roughly 70,000 sets. And with a very simple message he just said for the culture, which I'd love.
• 1:03:31
  Kevin: I'm so happy that he enjoys our culture. Ross, thank you so much everyone, go check out podcast insights, check out the podcast, check out the website. He's got tons of great information about podcasting there. And we thank you very much, Ross. Alright, next one is at mere mortals podcast. This is our friend Kieran sent us a roughly 1200 sets. And he said, Ah, you've gotten the initial high of value for value. And now unfortunately, comes the hard part, you have to continue to receive support the most critical portion is to ask, I think that's a fun part too.
• 1:03:58
  Kevin: It's not a hard part. It continues, he says I lay out how to do this in one of my other podcasts called value for value for those who are interested in following this route. If you want to do this for your podcast, if you want to learn how to ask for Satoshis or ask for support from your listeners, go check out his podcast value for value where you can learn all about that. So thank you, Karen at the mere mortals podcast. All right. This next one is from Carol marks from the remarkable beauty podcast, which is a podcast focused on curating Beauty News for women over 40.
• 1:04:30
  Kevin: She sent us about 4500 sets. She says you are all great. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and making it fun. Thank you, Carol. Carol is one of the podcasters that took me up on the opportunity. She shot me an invoice on Twitter. I paid the invoice and then she shot the money right back. So now I'm ready to give it off to somebody else.
• 1:04:47
  Alban: Can I say we've started saying about these many stats, not just because we're trying to censor it but because what we realized was we were trying to figure out what these numbers meant. And then we realized that actually because some of This way, we have a setup goes to the podcast app. And some of it goes back to the podcast index that we weren't seeing the exact number. So if you're sending us some, a specific number of Satoshis with a specific numerology, know that we will probably not see that the message is the part that really comes through to us,
• 1:05:18
  Kevin: right, we need a more sophisticated setup to see the numerology and we haven't set that up yet. So yeah, if you want us to know something about your number, please put it in your booster, gram comment so we can pass that along. So as I was saying, Carol took me up, I paid her invoice, she shot those Satoshis back to us, and now they're ready to go again. And I think there's something here, there's some sort of self sustaining economy that we're building, like, you send us money, we send you money, and somehow at the end of the day, we're all gonna end up with more money. So that's how self sustaining economies work, right? Just keep moving it around. No, that's not how they work. happens, like fallen out of his chair. Okay, I think I got that.
• 1:05:52
  Sam: So one of the things you said about Jordan Harbinger writing the beginning was paying to be on other people's podcast.
• 1:05:58
  Sam: Actually, we've worked out that if you send in a Satoshi payment to other people's podcast, they get a free name chain for very little. Yeah, it's like a free ad. So brilliant. I highly recommend if you want a free add on anyone else's podcast at sports value value, just ship him a couple of 1000 SATs right, you get a name check out there.
• 1:06:17
  Sam: It's a very low but very good way to get your podcast mentioned. So maybe Justin Harbinger could do for cheaper if he wanted. But yeah, that's one thing. And by the way, thank you to both of you. I think on behalf of James nigh you sponsor pod land, my podcast with James.
• 1:06:34
  Sam: So we highly Thank you. And every week we mentioned the number of new signups to Buzzsprout. And Kevin, you cunningly made that the amount that you gave us in SATs and it took us we didn't work it out until we listened to this show.
• 1:06:48
  Sam: Right. But James has said that he's got some stats that yours 42,800,000 new signups this week. So James, I've fully looking forward to our payment from you. So I'd send that invoice over we're ready.
• 1:07:02
  Kevin: We're gonna break the Lightning Network with that payment.
• 1:07:06
  Alban: We really didn't think that went through get it? I didn't see this 42 million people sign up for Buzzsprout.
• 1:07:10
  Alban: But we'll just have to take your word for it. We'll have to send out this.
• 1:07:15
  Kevin: Alright, our next boost is from Dave Jones from podcasting to auto he sent us a couple 1000 sets and he said anchor was a racket before racket was a racket, talking about the racket app that we talked about last week. Long live comenta Oh, I get what that is lamento. That was when we were trying to think of we're talking about clamor. You know, what are clamors called since a racket was a you were a racketeer or something. Yeah, I remember. Anyway. Thank you, Dave Jones, podcasting show now check it out. We talk a lot about it cuz we love it. And so we appreciate your support Dave.
• 1:07:45
  Kevin: The next one is from Kyle Herbert from the intergalactic boombox podcast send us 9000 SATs. Another big baller, thank you so much. He wrote them a Buzzsprout podcaster and I've been a listener for about a year podcasting, Soto features rock and then he followed that up with another 25,000 SATs. I'm telling you if you're not accepting value for value on your podcast, you're missing out. Sats keep rolling in. And he wrote thanks for offering to signal boost podcasters the intergalactic boom box is a geek pop culture show with a comedy flair for myself. I'm a voice actor from such things as Dragonball Z and the Street Fighter I use overlapping tracks to interact with my own original characters. I hope you'll listen and give it a shot. So wow, there it is the intergalactic boombox if you're listening to this, and that sounds like a show that you might enjoy.
• 1:08:25
  Kevin: Please go check it out. Thank you, Kyle Herbert. So if you have a show, and you want a shout out on buzz cast, you know how to do it, you can send us a promo 32nd promo like we talked about on the show. Or you can just send us some sets and say whatever you know, write whatever you want, as long as it's not offensive or crude or hateful. We'll be happy to read it.
• 1:08:43
  Alban: And thank you to everyone who listened to you know exceptionally long episode. I hope you got your value from it.
• 1:08:48
  Alban: And thank you so much to Sam.
• 1:08:48
  Alban: He's stayed up late now over the United Kingdom to record with us. Sam, we appreciate you immensely. If people want to learn more about you and they want to follow you where should they go?
• 1:09:00
  Sam: I just come on over to Portland news. We do a deep dive on tech and the industry. So it may not be for everybody. But if that's your thing that you want to know more about, then yeah, please come on over.
• 1:09:12
  Alban: Yeah, if you enjoyed this podcast, and you want more like it, then Sam and James doing pod land is an excellent show for you to check out. But thanks everyone for listening and we'll catch you next episode. Until then keep podcasting