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11 - Grounds For Divorce On The Road To WrestleMania! · Singlets & Suplexes: A Pro Wrestling Podcast

0:01
Hello, welcome to Singlets and Suplexes, a pro wrestling
0:06
podcast. I'm your host, Pete.
0:09
Evening. I'm Luke.
0:11
Luke, Are you ready to talk some professional wrestling?
0:14
I'm it's WrestleMania week. I'm excited.
0:16
I always find WrestleMania week bittersweet because I've been to
0:18
a couple. So then whenever it's
0:20
WrestleMania week, I'm not there, I get sad because it's a
0:22
bit like going to Disney World. Do you think it'll be enough?
0:25
Once? But it's just not because every
0:26
year is different and every year is awesome.
0:28
So bitter sweet. That's WrestleMania weekend, but
0:30
very excited for the Showcase of the Immortals.
0:33
And there's been some great stuff in WWE and AW this week,
0:36
so yeah. How many Wrestlemanias have you
0:39
been to? Three done New York.
0:45
Orlando, New Orleans. Which one was your favorite?
0:50
New Orleans because it was just one that I did on me own, like
0:56
where I just, I knew a few people that were going, but and
1:00
that's why I met up with them from time to time.
1:01
But like I flew out there on me own as a long flight where I
1:04
think it was Newcastle, Amsterdam, Amsterdam to Detroit,
1:07
Detroit to New Orleans. So it felt like a proper
1:10
mission. And then New Orleans was just
1:11
like something else, like amazing highs and amazing lows
1:15
of a place because of kind of, you know, one thing or another.
1:18
Hurricane Katrina being a big one.
1:20
And that's a Bourbon Street was just like, it is what they tell
1:22
you. Like they just actively
1:23
encourage you to get wrecked. Like most, most bars are only
1:26
closed if they're getting cleaned in most bars between
1:29
about 12:00 in the afternoon, about 8:00 at night, it was like
1:33
3 for one pints. So I was paying like $5 for like
1:36
3 pints of Stella and it's, it's quite small New Orleans as well
1:40
as in like the scent a bit. So like everything was walking
1:44
distance. And then because of that, like
1:46
when you're out on Bourbon Street, like you would just put
1:48
me into Bobby Roode or you bump into Elias or I'll bump into
1:52
Corey. I give Corey Graves a tab like
1:54
because I was asking for a photo and he saw and he saw a small
1:56
and he was like, yeah, if you give us one of those, because it
1:58
was like there's not really anywhere else that can go except
2:01
Bourbon Street, like for that type of thing because of how
2:03
kind of everything's built in on top of each other.
2:05
So yeah, it was just something else.
2:06
Unbelievable. And I said as well, we obviously
2:10
80% of the hostel were there for WrestleMania.
2:12
So that I say because you were travelling on your own, you
2:14
weren't really on your own because everyone was there for
2:16
the same thing and everyone was just fucking excited.
2:20
Yeah, it's one thing obviously as a Star Wars fan, I think a
2:23
couple of Star Wars Celebrations where Star Wars Celebrations
2:26
almost like the official Star Wars convention happens once
2:28
every two years usually. And you know, it's officially
2:32
put on by Lucasfilm and there's like loads of cool stuff there.
2:35
Obviously all the Star Wars fans go on to me, I think that's,
2:38
I've not been to WrestleMania, but I imagine what Star Wars
2:41
Celebration is for Star Wars fans is what like is what
2:43
WrestleMania will be like for wrestling fans with everybody
2:45
from all over the world galas in that one place.
2:47
The stars are there, you have that industry and like you just
2:50
get to indulge in in all the things you love.
2:53
Yeah, because the other WrestleMania I went to, I met up
2:56
with you, didn't I? Not for WrestleMania, but you
2:59
were there for Star Wars. That was that, wasn't it?
3:02
That was in Orlando, yes. And you caused the end of my
3:05
marriage, didn't you? Because of that WrestleMania.
3:06
So it's better sweet that WrestleMania.
3:09
Well, allegedly some people would say in a legal document
3:12
that I was the cause of that divorce.
3:14
But yeah, we're not going to can't talk about that.
3:17
It's it's in a courtroom. You know, I was young.
3:19
It was, it was funny. It was he didn't really have me
3:22
marriage. It was doing from the start.
3:23
But yeah, so that was the first one.
3:24
So that one kind of wasn't as good as like I wanted it to be.
3:27
But yeah, definitely New Orleans.
3:29
There's a great picture where it's like me and you with Thing
3:32
One and Thing 2 Universal Studios that your then wife
3:35
obviously took. And it's like, yeah.
3:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially because like the
3:43
first part of that week when you weren't there, just spent it at
3:45
Wrestlemanias and wrestle cons and Hall of Fame's.
3:47
So yeah, no, but you know, you say young and silly, you know no
3:50
harm was done. I had a great time with you and
3:53
thing one thing 2 was a great time.
3:55
Yeah, I had a great time out. The WrestleMania shows, it was
3:57
probably the Inbetweens. I could have been better, but
3:59
you live in, you learn. You do indeed.
4:02
You do indeed. And being you did ride the Harry
4:04
Potter right again, which was great.
4:06
We did. We did.
4:07
I met the Grinch, which was a rare spot, and that was exciting
4:10
because he doesn't normally come out in April, but we met him.
4:13
We did indeed nice pre pre Christmas or post Christmas
4:17
crinch, however you look at it. Support.
4:19
I think that's enough theme park talk.
4:21
I think that's go to talking about the past week in
4:24
professional wrestling before diving into some sports
4:26
entertainment nostalgia. But first, Luke, Are you ready
4:29
to do some housekeeping? Always get a nice and clean
4:32
before we can move on positively.
4:34
Can indeed. So I've been a bit, it's been a
4:37
week for me. I'm not going to lie.
4:38
Obviously Luke, you know about it, but it has been a week for
4:41
me. So we haven't been quite in the
4:42
ball with our social posts and stuff, but we have had a few
4:45
messages come in and I promise that next week we'll be posting
4:49
the socials that is on Instagram at SAS Wrestling Pod.
4:52
So you can join us there and get your questions, but we've had a
4:55
few questions and thoughts in before then, which is very, very
5:00
positive. We're going to go to Spotify.
5:03
So yeah, if you're listening on Spotify right now to this
5:06
episode, you can drop a comment on the episode and we will
5:09
reference it in this segment next week.
5:12
And we've had one from Scott Watt and he posted this, it
5:17
seems like the very next morning must be listening to the
5:19
podcast. So that's great.
5:21
He dropped the thoughts straight away.
5:24
So Luke, this is in reference to when we talked about gimmicks
5:27
last week and he's put class. Listen again lads, he's put one
5:32
recently missed gimmick we could have said would be The Fiend
5:35
multiple times and sell relevant now despite brave unfortunate
5:39
passing. What's your thoughts on the
5:41
great gimmick that last great gimmick movie?
5:44
Yeah, definitely. Like I've got to go wait.
5:46
Like I've put Bray White and there's one of my kind of all
5:49
time favourites, you know, and I think he was very polarizing
5:52
because there's a lot of times where it didn't quite work, but
5:55
I absolutely loved him like enough when he came back with a
5:57
Fiend. Like it was especially the early
6:00
stuff, it was the Mr. Rogers kind of, you know, children's
6:02
presenter then this twisted Fiend gimmick.
6:04
It was absolutely excellent. I just think it's another one
6:06
where because of his kind of really premature death, it's
6:09
almost falls and occurs by the wrestling gods of like, what
6:12
could have been, even though, you know, multiple world
6:14
champion and things. Yeah, no, I think that's
6:18
probably the one, isn't it? I think that's it.
6:20
Your wrestle guy, not the fian, but you know, Randy or the
6:23
WrestleMania World Championships, Bill Goldberg,
6:26
you know what I mean? It's yeah, that was a gimmick.
6:29
That was 100%. You couldn't get more of a
6:30
gimmick than that. So yeah, that's a great show.
6:33
You obviously had the unit take a sort of hand off to him in on
6:36
that moment. I think it was raw.
6:39
Yes, yeah, he did yeah, when he came back, yeah, So no, and it
6:42
was clearly someone that was like was allowed that bit of
6:45
freedom, which I think sometimes is why it it it didn't always
6:49
stick the London. But obviously loads of people
6:51
kind of, you know, said kind of one of the best creative minds
6:55
like they've ever met. And like Speaking of gimmicks,
6:57
he was able to get over the gimmick Annexi of being called
6:59
Husky Harris, which is one of my favorite shake gimmicks because
7:03
it's like it's called Husky Harris because he's fat.
7:05
It might. It could have been anything,
7:06
Couldn't It could have been fatty Farris, chubby Charis.
7:10
Like it was the Butlins after we were being called.
7:15
Fatty Farris, but no, he was Husky Harris for even managed to
7:17
survive that and kind of come back by coming up with his own
7:20
gimmick and kind of running with that and the wire family were
7:23
like absolutely brilliant. Like obviously the car passed
7:26
away as well, but like that could be a moment in time much
7:29
that, but their match with the shield like it's up there.
7:32
It's kind of one of possibly the best six man match ever, but
7:36
just an absolutely solid match as well.
7:37
So there's loads of great content for such a fairly short
7:40
run when it comes to Bray Wyatt. Definitely.
7:42
I think the way I think about this number, I used to and you
7:45
remember this, we obviously we had a, we had a buddy called IBS
7:48
who used to work with in the cinema who can remember.
7:51
Sometimes I'd watch Monday Night Roll with IBS.
7:54
It wasn't the biggest wrestling family.
7:56
You would watch it and sort of enjoy it maybe through my eyes
7:58
and see what was going on board during that time was like the
8:00
vignettes were airing for the wide family coming on the main
8:02
roster. So obviously Harbour Bre himself
8:07
and I've forgotten the name of the other.
8:09
Guy Rowan. That's the one run and obviously
8:12
he was like, whoa, like what's this?
8:14
This is like creepy years out, but also like crazy good and
8:17
like and he wasn't really wrestling fine.
8:19
I remember him being like freaked out by the Visionettes,
8:22
but also like really intrigued by and I was like, Yep, they've
8:24
got you for the food. Not sometimes what our test
8:28
things by is like. How would non wrestling fans see
8:30
it? Yeah, and like every obviously,
8:32
like one of the negatives you also about was that like
8:34
infamous Hell in a Cell match with Rollins and like, it is
8:36
terrible where they had the lights out and read the whole
8:39
time. But like something different.
8:40
I think with someone like Bray Wyatt, there was always
8:42
something being tried. And when you're trying a lot of
8:44
different stuff, not all of it is going to stick.
8:46
But I like I like when people are at least trying something
8:48
different. And I say for a short run, he
8:51
got packed a lot in there. And I think Rollins has recently
8:54
said something where he was sort of talking cool, but he was
8:56
like, obviously he was like, obviously Bri's not yet to talk
9:00
about what happened in the build up that much, but he was sort of
9:02
seeing that the plans got changed quite a bit in the build
9:05
up, like through creative offering Vince or whoever.
9:08
So, you know, I think it's not necessarily Brae or Seth's fault
9:12
that that much happened the way it did.
9:14
They're also trying to execute somebody else's plan.
9:16
Maybe he's what he was alluding to.
9:18
But yeah. I remember as well because
9:21
obviously the Firefly Fun House match was seen as really good.
9:24
And I remember in me single days I was out on a night out and
9:28
this this girl come back to mine and then me mate, the next day
9:31
was like, oh, how was the rest of your night?
9:33
And like me and this girl were really wrecked.
9:34
I was like, oh, I mean I watch the Firefly fun house match with
9:38
Brie Wyatt and John Cena. She wasn't wrestling fan and you
9:41
just said his his comment. He just looked as and went, I do
9:43
not know how she enjoyed that. I don't know if she did, but you
9:47
know, that's how much of a fact you had on me.
9:48
I thought that was the best move I had.
9:51
Did she leave straight away? That's what we want to know.
9:53
No, she doesn't leave straight away, to be fair, so we'll leave
9:55
it at that. But yeah.
9:56
So what's the firefight funhouse?
9:58
Indeed, I love the firefighter and I was in the how all the
10:01
characters yelling to him, hauling to wrestlings, obviously
10:04
Huskers the pig was a character obviously to Husky the pig.
10:08
We obviously had the back inside one car guy, which was pretty
10:11
cool. No, it wasn't obviously the
10:13
Buzzard and that's what they've kind of developed the White 6
10:15
into. I think that was saying think
10:17
we're get a bit negative about the White 6 because kind of had
10:19
this massive debut and this is kind of, you know, legacy nod to
10:23
Bray Wyatt and his what he achieved.
10:25
And like, yeah, there's not really done much of this.
10:27
So it's a shame, but hopefully there's still stuff left in it.
10:30
But I think that might be something that's wearing out of
10:31
gas to the Y at six. Possibly having the yeah, I
10:35
think it is. It's, it's, it's being down in
10:37
the court, isn't it? And it's also like not do
10:39
anything relevant on you that is constantly feuding.
10:42
They've got landing back, obviously, but then like what's
10:45
what's happening? Like, yeah, yeah.
10:49
Yeah, we'll see. You never know.
10:50
You never know. Next one on Spotify is from Lou,
10:55
Lou said. With ticket sales being a
10:57
problem and prices being high obviously, as we've discussed in
11:00
a couple of weeks, do you think going back to the same city the
11:03
very next year for WrestleMania has also an issue that has
11:07
contributed to the problem? I think to an extent, yes,
11:11
because it kind of touches on what we're saying about, you
11:14
know, you can't go one wrestle Mania because every year is
11:16
different. And that was a big thing that
11:18
appealed to me why I ended up going three years in a row
11:20
because it was like 3 different American cities with brilliant.
11:23
So, yeah, I think if I had a went last year and then it was
11:27
in Vegas again, which it is, I think that would have been like,
11:30
I'm always bothered this year because I've done Vegas.
11:33
So yeah, I think that could be a thing.
11:35
That's definitely kind of dampened it.
11:37
And obviously there's kind of political moves at play with
11:39
that, wasn't there? Because it wasn't meant to be
11:40
Vegas. Was it Minnesota somewhere?
11:44
But yeah. And obviously they've, I think
11:46
they must have put up more money and then they've kind of went
11:48
back on the word. So that's a shame that that's
11:50
the case. But I mean, another thing I
11:52
thought as well was kind of the low ticket sales, which is just
11:56
me having to think about the way the general world is that like,
11:59
you know, there's a lot of fucking shit going on in the
12:01
world. You know, Donald Trump being a
12:02
big figurehead of why that's happening.
12:04
And WrestleMania is like a holiday for people where I think
12:09
it'll be, I'd love to know, you probably never do it really
12:12
without putting people on lists, which, you know, we're getting
12:14
close to doing that anyways. But like what the kind of split
12:16
is at like a sold out stadium of like Americans and people there
12:21
who've essentially come on holiday.
12:22
So I don't know if there might be a little bit of a dip in
12:25
ticket sales because people are just genuinely scared to travel
12:28
to the US. I think, you know, as we've
12:31
already heard, we are big fans of theme parks and in particular
12:34
Disney and Universal in the groups.
12:36
I mean, there's people who like aren't, are delaying traveling
12:39
to America at the minute, just waiting to see what happens,
12:41
especially with all the ice stuff that was going on and
12:43
things like that. You know, so I think people in
12:47
Europe are traveling the US less and that's you can you can see
12:50
that. Does that mean that the
12:52
wrestling European fans are traveling America are yes, less.
12:56
It could be. I think, Lou, sort of spot on.
12:58
I think, yeah, like it's two things.
13:02
We're like, let's just say you went last year and then you're
13:05
going to go again this year. So you're back in the same city
13:08
for WrestleMania. Your ticket price has gone up,
13:11
by the way, from last year. So even if you're pricing up as
13:13
a person, you're like, hang on a SEC.
13:14
I was here at the same time last year and it's gone up like a lot
13:17
like not just normal inflation like.
13:20
And we've did. Nice house.
13:21
Why is it so much more money one year later?
13:23
Like, yeah. Like we've, we've, if I was
13:28
saying that we didn't go the last household did well, because
13:30
we did that, we priced it up. All right, well, we're fucking
13:32
paid £90 last time. Another 1-2 hundred and it's
13:35
like 18 months difference. Like where do you get that
13:37
uplift from? So no, I think it's just a bit
13:39
of a, a nasty mixed cauldron of why the ticket sales are down,
13:43
where it's kind of like Tokyo being greedy things going on in
13:46
the world, you know, Vegas pulling their cards out and
13:49
getting a second year in a row. But I think, yeah, I think it's
13:51
there's, I think there's definitely more than one factor
13:53
than ticket prices. Definitely.
13:57
And I think yeah, I think you need to get location correct and
14:00
then you need to look at the ticket price and I think they
14:02
can increase a little bit and make money without doing what
14:04
they've done. And I think another thing, I
14:07
think they're not sounded out, it's not necessarily a problem
14:11
because all that tickets have sold are so much money, they're
14:13
probably still made loads of profit, right.
14:16
So it's. Like, yeah, it would be
14:18
interesting. Yeah.
14:19
You've always got a kind of take the final numbers of the pinch
14:22
of salt will be interesting to see what they do.
14:24
And I know like, because that's the thing that could potentially
14:27
beat last year's gate, but that's because the ticket like
14:29
as in like the, the, the profit they make.
14:32
But that's because you've doubled the prices.
14:33
But have you sold as many? So, yeah, it'll be interesting
14:36
to see when the dust settles on it.
14:37
Like what the kind of effects being kind of attendance,
14:40
overall profit, things like that?
14:42
Indeed, the nitty gritty of the pro wrestling businesses, we
14:45
call it. Yeah, the dollars and the pence
14:49
we've had, even though we didn't post on our Instagram, usually
14:52
we do a post on them. You can put your comments and
14:54
thoughts there for us to talk about at SAS Wrestling Pod.
14:58
But Super Geek 89 managed to inbox us.
15:01
He must have been waiting to sort of jump on our post, didn't
15:04
see the post and took matters into their own hands, which, you
15:07
know, did. So yeah, Super Geek 89 said.
15:10
Loving the pod and listen to it weekly.
15:12
Hope you have a great mania week.
15:13
We hope you do as well. Super geek do enjoy it and might
15:17
even see you at NCL Cup in May. We hope we do see.
15:21
You definitely, yeah. Shout out, come and say hello.
15:24
Yeah, we'll drop us another message.
15:25
Yeah, we'll definitely, definitely see you there.
15:27
We're going. So this is an important one for
15:31
you. I must have not heard the
15:33
section in last week's episode Is Ricochet World Champion yet?
15:38
No, he's not, and we'll talk about him on the positives and
15:40
negatives this week because he's back the little rat.
15:42
He doesn't need back. I was one of the things that
15:45
when I seen him back, I was like, I kind of weird speaking.
15:47
He'd look about this on the pod. Dump dump at my enjoyment of the
15:51
AW this week. Yeah, Super Geek says that's a
15:54
great segment. So the love that segment.
15:58
Also going to see what's your favorite WrestleMania and why?
16:00
Also, what was the first WrestleMania you watched growing
16:03
up? And he says that there was
16:06
WrestleMania 14. My friends had it on VHS, and I
16:09
borrowed it more times. I like to admit.
16:11
Ha, ha. Well, hey, we're in our
16:13
videotapes. That thought was all about in
16:15
the 90s and, oh, 2000s boots. So we absolutely agree with you
16:17
there. There's no shame at all in that.
16:19
But yeah, Luke, what's your Let's start with your favorite
16:21
WrestleMania and why? I think it might be 20s up there
16:27
because you've got the kind of rise to see now winning his
16:29
first US title. And then, you know, obviously
16:31
you've got the Eddie, you've got the Benoit stuff.
16:33
So I think 20 is definitely up there.
16:35
I hope to like 19 as well with Sean and Chris Jericho.
16:40
That's a great one. So yeah, I think them two are
16:42
definitely there. And WrestleMania 30 I always
16:45
kind of really remember and Joy and I'm sure you were there, but
16:48
if you remember, got a pub to host it.
16:50
And then I thought, again, there was some good stuff on that
16:52
night. That was the one where you got
16:53
the infamous Hulk Hogan Silver Dome comment, which was great
16:58
stuff. And I say that you had the whole
16:59
it was the Esselmania and I really enjoyed Brian winning the
17:02
title. So yeah, 3020 and 19 jump out as
17:06
kind of getting put on the spot with it.
17:08
How about you? So I think WrestleMania.
17:13
So I'm going to mix up my numbers.
17:15
Watch. I think WrestleMania.
17:18
I'm going to say it is Austin Brett hot?
17:24
Which Mania is that again? 13.
17:27
WrestleMania 13, that match was just fantastic.
17:31
The rest of the card was like all was decent, but that match
17:34
really transcends wrestling I think.
17:37
I think WrestleMania 20, So I remember I'd been out of
17:40
wrestling for a little bit and then sort of around that, the
17:44
December before that Mania. So December 20/20/2023 December
17:48
2003 Sorry was when I sort of get back in to watching
17:52
wrestling. Reagan getting really involved
17:54
and obviously that was like the rise of Ben Moy wins the wire
17:56
rumble that year. That wire rumble match is
17:59
fantastic. The wire rumble view was great.
18:01
They had Triple H and Michaels last man center match for the
18:03
title, which was great. And it sort of goes into Norway
18:06
out where Eddie beats Brock for the WWE championship.
18:08
And then we go into WrestleMania where we've got The Rock and
18:12
Sock versus Evolution, and that's sort of the middle part
18:16
of the Randy Orton, Mick 40 storyline, which which had
18:18
started just the end of the year before.
18:21
And then obviously, yeah, Ben Moore wins the big one.
18:24
Eddie defends against Kurt. And yeah, I remember that being
18:26
just a it was a great man, Yeah, from start to finish.
18:29
But also I was really back watching wrestling.
18:32
I was really excited about wrestling.
18:33
So WrestleMania 20 certainly was like a big part in my in my
18:37
wrestling storyline, I think. And then again, I'll go
18:39
WrestleMania with Bretton Austin just because of how much I love
18:42
that match. I think for a modern Mania,
18:46
yeah, I think 30 was a big deal on that pub.
18:48
I remember watching together the yes, Me and yeah was fantastic.
18:51
Obviously that's the one where Brock beats take.
18:54
Is that right? Yeah, it was, yeah.
18:57
So yeah, some big moments happened, which was like, you
18:59
know, whether you agree with the streak and no, you don't.
19:01
You can't deny that it was a jaw drop moment.
19:03
It was a moment that you remember where you were when
19:05
that happened. Like 100% and offer and you know
19:11
Tim Strange shout out to him when the big death match trophy
19:13
this past week. He was with us as well and he
19:16
was the only because he that there were actually some of the
19:19
betting sites will let you put bets on it.
19:20
He actually bet on Brock 1 and I think you won about £200 off a
19:23
tenner and he was the only person there that had any any
19:26
thought that that might happen. So because another successful
19:28
night for him that night as well.
19:30
Wasn't he? And I don't know if Tim, is this
19:32
an upward Mr. Big Tim Strange. I know he's got off to Vegas to
19:36
do some wrestling. So good luck with all those
19:39
matches over there. A hardcore horse in Vegas.
19:43
He is indeed. He's in Vegas running Wilds.
19:46
What was the first thing you've ever watching that's?
19:48
What I was going to say something about that.
19:49
For me, I think the first one where like I properly like
19:53
recorded it like on VHS like live and then like watched it
19:58
before school and kind of couldn't get back to finish it.
20:00
I think the first one I probably watched where I was really into
20:03
like wrestling at that point where like I've never stopped
20:05
since was WrestleMania 2000. I think like until then, like I
20:09
think wrestling had been like just something that like when it
20:11
was on, I watched it. But I think maybe is the kind of
20:13
year leading up the WrestleMania 2000 is when I like fell in love
20:16
with it. So that would be in the McMahon
20:18
in every corner. Yes indeed.
20:21
And it I haven't found it yet, but if you get yourself a
20:24
Hollister, they've got a WrestleMania 2000 T-shirt for
20:27
sale. But so far I've not been unable
20:29
to find it. Who found it?
20:30
Luke. Yeah, I was meant to tell you,
20:32
Next are selling the Hollister versions of this.
20:34
So Next just stock all different brands now because the world's
20:37
broken. So yeah, if you want one,
20:39
they've got the Royal Rumble and the WrestleMania 2000 Hollister
20:41
T-shirts on Next. Nice.
20:43
How many excels do you know how many excels in there, Luke?
20:47
I'm not sure what the go up do. I'm not sure.
20:50
I'm a bit of an XL these days so we'll have to.
20:52
Yeah, get yourself, get yourself to the next.
20:55
We had the WrestleMania 2000 was the first one that I properly
20:57
remember, like actively being like, it's WrestleMania.
21:00
Like I'm going to watch WrestleMania.
21:02
That's the same for me. So I'd watched all the
21:04
Wrestlemanias on VHS at the cousins house, like completely
21:07
out of time but love them. So I knew what it was the same
21:10
King of the Rings. I'd got any cousins and would I
21:11
watch a King of the Ring or a WrestleMania?
21:13
So I knew about them. But 2000 was where I was like I
21:17
was aware of the build up and that this event was coming where
21:19
the all the other ones. I watched them for the first
21:22
time but also I knew it was something from the past if that
21:24
makes sense. It's a good one as well, to be
21:26
fair, because obviously, like I said, no, people hate on it, but
21:29
you've got the man in every corner.
21:30
It's the fatal four way with kind of, you know, 4, the
21:32
biggest stars of all time, and then you've got the TLC match on
21:35
it. And then there's also a kind of
21:37
forgotten match as well where it's Jericho versus Angle versus
21:41
Benoir where Kurt goes in with the European and the IC title
21:45
and the both on the line. He leaves with none of them.
21:48
So it. Was one fall apiece, wasn't it?
21:51
Yeah, it was. I think it's quite a cool, cool
21:53
thing. So obviously it's very rare you
21:54
get people with two belts. So I thought that was quite a
21:55
cool way of kind of getting them both often, but also having them
21:58
both defended at WrestleMania. So yeah, a bit of a hidden gem,
22:01
that much and. Obviously builds that Kurt
22:03
carried away. He's having a meltdown because
22:04
like, he's being beat and it builds up the keel.
22:07
Kurt. So good, isn't it?
22:08
Yeah. So, yeah, it is a pretty strong
22:11
show as well. I mean, there's some garbage on
22:12
there as well. I'm sure you've got Bossman and
22:14
Bobby Bear Ball, Buchanan versus The Godfather and Deal or Brown
22:18
maybe. So.
22:19
I mean, it's not all great. There is some thin gruel.
22:21
But yeah, I think overall it was pretty good.
22:23
First one to kind of remember. Definitely.
22:27
Are you ready to move on our first official segment a week in
22:30
review? I am yeah.
22:31
Safe had a big build up to WrestleMania.
22:34
I've had an AW pay-per-view, so let's do it.
22:37
Let's do it. So I'm going to start 1st.
22:38
I'm going to talk about some of my negatives, if that's OK,
22:40
Luke. It is.
22:41
Yes, it is. So my first negative, and I'm
22:44
not sure it's a negative, but I think obviously big deals being
22:46
made about Chris Jericho's return to wrestling and that
22:49
that return is at AW OK, we've already commented he looks
22:53
great. Obviously his first match back
22:55
was on pay-per-view and it was against Ricochet.
22:58
Jericho's being beaten in his return match and you know, I
23:01
know Jarrett was great alike, you know, he loves working
23:03
different people and he loves putting over different talent
23:06
and he's done that since he's been AW, which is great.
23:08
But I worry that is there a chance that he's lost on his
23:13
return? And like, what does that do for
23:15
the Chris Jericho brand? No, definitely.
23:18
So this this was in my negative as well where just to try and
23:22
you know, not totally shit all over ricochet.
23:24
Like I have kind of put some positives to it.
23:26
But yeah, I thought the promo segment on Dynamite leading into
23:30
it, like ricochets terrible like he is, he can't speak.
23:34
Like it's just lame. Like when he opens his mouth,
23:36
I'm just like, shut the fuck up. Like and it's because he's bad.
23:39
He can't go promo. So then especially when you're
23:42
in there with someone like Jericho, who, you know, I think
23:45
is on his days up, there's one of the best promos of all time.
23:48
Like on his day, Jericho 100% that it just sticks out like a
23:51
sore thumb. And then yeah, 100%.
23:53
So kind of when I was watching the match, I thought this is a
23:56
good match and this is kind of this is Ricochet spot, kind of.
24:00
He is a fantastic wrestler. He can make other people look
24:03
great. Like to quote Stephanie McMahon
24:05
when in the Daniel Bryan WrestleMania thing, you know,
24:08
you're AB plus player. It's a nice little spot for you.
24:10
That's Ricochet. That's a nice little spot for
24:12
you. But then him getting the win,
24:14
Yeah, it's kind of that's the negative because not because I
24:16
don't like him, I don't want, but that isn't a negative.
24:18
It's just like, where does Jericho go from here?
24:20
Do you have kind of a run where he's this kind of older guy who
24:25
has he still got it and he kind of has to lose a bit before he
24:28
builds up? But what do you do?
24:29
I know they're instantly set up a sit down interview with Renee
24:33
for this week's Dynamite. So hopefully the star take that
24:37
in a positive way. But so far, yeah, I think it's
24:40
been a bit of a poor return as in like, I don't really know
24:43
what they're doing with them. I don't think he's added to the
24:45
product. And yeah, I think there's a lot
24:47
more you could be getting out of them.
24:50
So early days, but I do just think what what are we doing
24:53
here? And I thought he looked great in
24:54
the match, his body looks. The match was the match was fine
24:57
and like it was great. There was some good.
24:59
He'll work in there with Ricochet and his two guys, like
25:01
the bit he's got him in the water.
25:02
Jarrett won the pushing the rope towards him and it was a numbers
25:05
game. That's what beat Jericho in the
25:06
end. So kind of, you know, it wasn't
25:07
a clean victory. Like I say, the match was good,
25:10
you know, better than it was great actually.
25:12
So I really enjoyed that. But yeah, just the overall of
25:14
like and not even just that, like.
25:15
So then where's Ricochet going from here?
25:18
Like, is it, is it, are we're going to get a continued feud
25:20
with Jericho, which I definitely don't want.
25:22
And then if. Yeah.
25:23
So I just thought it was a bit. Yeah.
25:25
The result left a lot of questions.
25:28
No, it certainly did nothing. You know, Ricochet is the man
25:30
who, you know, seemingly corn get himself over.
25:33
You know, we can do 10 million flips in a row and you've got
25:36
Chris Jericho who can click a pen and get that over.
25:39
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, we'll be interested to
25:42
see. But yeah, they think it was a
25:43
bit of a negative. Match was great, absolutely
25:45
great. No criticism of the match, but
25:47
yeah, just kind of the overall lead into it and what comes
25:50
next. And again, you know, could be
25:51
something good. But yeah, I don't know.
25:53
I'm very on the fence about Jericho's return so far, but it
25:56
is early days. It is indeed my next negative.
25:59
Again, it's staying in AW and we're talking Kyle Thatcher
26:03
obviously injured, which is sad. Get well soon obviously has had
26:08
to relinquish the TNT title and I just think we've been here
26:12
before we AW wrestlers are injured and they have to
26:14
relinquish belts and have to go away for while they get better
26:17
and do they come back and is it because of the in ring style?
26:20
And you know, I love watching great wrestling, but is there a
26:23
point where we have to tone it down a little bit because people
26:25
are just getting hurt and it's I mean it's damaging them.
26:28
It's damaging the future storylines because I'll have to
26:30
pivot and you know, he's relinquished the belt.
26:32
You know, look at Adam Cole. Is he ever coming back?
26:36
And that was in a matter with Kyle Fletch, but we've never
26:37
said that. But that was when Kyle Fletcher
26:39
powerbomb on the air, when it just looked fucking horrendous.
26:44
Yeah. So what's your thought?
26:45
I just think do we need to just not seen torn it down too much,
26:48
but like certain things like there's time and place to do
26:52
with them and I think you risk people getting hurt and like too
26:56
many times are this is this company after the pivot because
26:58
it's stars have gotten hurt putting on a style of March that
27:02
you know, those are looks great, but is is there a bit too much
27:04
risk in there? No, I think I think there
27:07
definitely is. And I think that's something
27:08
where like if you put that comment on a wrestling forum,
27:11
you'd have people jumping down your throat saying you're a
27:13
pedophile and you love the WWE and you don't get it.
27:16
And AW is where is for the sickos.
27:18
And it's like, I get that to a point.
27:19
But no, I think there has to be a conversation because I mean,
27:22
it's not just Kyle Fletcher. I mean that Gabe kid got injured
27:25
in his match at dynasty in the finish got changed so and he's
27:29
now out for months. That's been kind like saying he
27:32
they've only just brought him in from New Japan, just started
27:34
stable with him and Dave Finn and Lee and Connors.
27:37
So it's like there's another person who's gone where they've
27:39
had changed the finish of a match and the Champions mid
27:42
match because they they realized pretty early on, like how severe
27:45
that injury was. And yeah, no, there is.
27:48
I mean, there was a spot, bear in mind and all part of its
27:52
storyline where the talk about how broken down Kenny Omega is.
27:55
But there was a bit that one of the MGF pile drivers off the
27:59
apron through a table on the outside and like it just looked
28:03
like Kenny Omega's neck took all of it, Like it didn't look safe
28:06
at all. So yeah, I do think it's
28:09
something that AW funds, like you die hard, AW funds won't
28:13
accept. But I think there's more than
28:15
enough evidence there to kind of suggest that maybe these things
28:19
need to be looked at. And again, I mean that again
28:23
after the flip flop the title, because it's funny that you
28:25
mentioned obviously Kyle Fletcher as you lead into this
28:27
obviously TNT title getting dropped because I was like, I
28:30
feel like there's been so many TNT champions.
28:32
So like, I think it was the day I was Googling it And since the
28:36
belt debuted, the on average being six different TNT
28:41
champions every year, is that too many?
28:46
Does that matter Like that? That just seems like a lot.
28:49
But there's been, I think that works out of equivalent.
28:51
In the six years that it's been going, it's been 36 TNT
28:55
Champions. Well, yeah, it would be, yeah.
28:58
So it is a lot, I think. And if you haven't changed some
29:01
because of injury, then it's obviously not storyline driven.
29:04
I think you know what I've been at the AD we've found since day
29:06
one. You know, I bought into the
29:07
hype. I enjoy the product.
29:09
I watch it a bit less now just because of time.
29:12
I'm a big fan of Kenny Omega. I think on Kenny Omega's day, he
29:14
can be one of the best Rattlers in the world.
29:16
He's one way. I think his style is close to
29:19
the line, but he's but he's safe and snug enough.
29:21
But again, like his body, he has been away for a bit recovering,
29:25
but but at least he went away and recovered where it didn't
29:28
really affect the product too much.
29:29
But I think when these younger guys are here, you know, it's
29:33
great. Like they're doing fantastic
29:35
stuff. It looks great.
29:35
But I think, you know, you don't need to do all of it.
29:38
You can just you can you can go to a certain point and it'd
29:41
still be for the sickos. That makes sense.
29:44
But then just don't do that last little bit that's I'm going to
29:45
put you on the shelf. No 100% and to be fair, I think
29:49
this this pay-per-view from start to finish was better for
29:52
there was nothing too silly in it.
29:54
Like I say that pile driver Kenny Omega look bad, but I've
29:58
seen a lot worse than AW obviously gave he got injured,
30:01
but it was unlucky. It wasn't because of any kind of
30:03
silly bump, even like the one what I've talked about now,
30:07
because one of my positives. I really enjoyed the Derby Allen
30:10
Andrade match and in that, you know, Derby was the IT was a lot
30:14
safer, I felt. And it kind of made his pivot on
30:16
me thought on Derby Allen last week where why isn't he be a
30:19
world champion yet? Because I kind of thought, you
30:21
know what it is like the way he wrestles and because of his size
30:24
and this kind of underdog, I think he's someone who you kind
30:27
of touched on last week as well, doesn't need to hold that world
30:30
championship for a long time. And you can put him in
30:32
championship matches that he loses.
30:34
And it doesn't take away from that fact because obviously he's
30:37
going to go straight into a feud with MGF for the world title,
30:40
which I don't think you'll win. But I've kind of changed my
30:42
opinion that like Nah, I don't think he needs the world title,
30:45
not for a long time anyways. Yeah, well, definitely with
30:51
that, my final negative of the week was again, this this do we
30:57
do we title bills, I think. And then I was half watching
31:02
because I was half not interested.
31:03
But I've I've seen that obviously your sky taking out
31:09
Jade Cargill, Oscar being involved.
31:12
I'm not sure if that match has been announced yet now or not
31:14
but it just seems to be a higgledy piggledy with like too
31:17
many. There's too many people involved
31:19
in this story that should just be Jade and Ria saying let's
31:24
beast each other and see who the best beast is.
31:27
No, 100%. And I say, well, we've talked
31:28
about this feud a lot and it's always been negative, which just
31:32
is a shame. And it should have just been
31:34
them too. But like I say, I think a lot of
31:36
it goes back the fact that it was never meant to be them to a
31:38
Mania. And then you've had Bellas
31:40
getting injured, which is held off on the US Sky Oscar match.
31:42
And yeah, it's just all of US-led to a bit of a mess.
31:45
And I don't, I really hope that like, because that's a out of
31:48
all the WrestleMania matches, that 1 is probably the one I'm
31:52
least looking for, like least looking forward to.
31:55
So I hope I'm proven completely wrong because I think they've
31:58
both got it in them to go out there and have a good match.
32:00
But yeah, it's just it's not been good, especially because
32:02
then it's spilled out over to Raw as well.
32:06
There's been kind of two lots of it every week and it's still not
32:08
been enough to kind of really get that match over.
32:12
Yeah, and I love them both. I think they're both like, they
32:14
both look great. They both look $1,000,000.
32:16
They look like stars, look like beasts of like athletes, you
32:20
know, in the ring, you know the work different styles, but like
32:23
the both dominant, you know, like it should be something
32:27
we're excited about because of like of how how great they are,
32:31
But I feel it's just been in a weird direction, but how pivoted
32:34
you're right. So.
32:35
And I think 1 positive from this week with that feud, which gives
32:39
us hope for the we are only matches.
32:40
I we've had this conversation like how good actually is Jade
32:43
Cargill that we've never seen her in like a long match.
32:46
But I thought a match with your Sky on Smackdown was a good
32:49
match. So like, yeah, it's kind of
32:52
thrown together higgledy piggledy.
32:53
But when the bell rang, I thought them to work well
32:55
together on Smackdown. So that kind of give us a little
32:58
bit more hope that, you know, discard the terrible build when
33:02
the RIP bell rings of WrestleMania.
33:03
Her and Ria can have a good match and it's kind of won't
33:07
take much, but kind of gives us more than what I'm expecting at
33:09
the minute. Yeah, I know that those two had
33:12
a great match and it's a shame that like it's in the building
33:16
to match that. Like that's nothing to do with
33:17
the story. Like, yeah.
33:18
So I'm she can go and I think we will see her go and hopefully it
33:22
is a great match of men. I think you're.
33:23
Absolutely right with that 100%. So going to go over to my
33:27
positives now. I thought Oba Femi on Raw, he
33:35
was on the mic. He was battling Paul Heyman.
33:37
I thought he sounded legit. Obviously, I haven't really
33:40
heard him talk much. I've heard him talk some.
33:43
This was the first time he's really spoke during this feud.
33:45
I thought certainly, like in the ring, and I thought the way he
33:49
was speaking, he was dominant, he was confident.
33:54
And I didn't know that it wasn't just them two beating each other
33:57
down, austere and each other down.
33:58
It was a bit different. And I thought, yeah, we hear him
34:01
speak before we see him do the business at WrestleMania.
34:03
I thought, yeah, nice segment, didn't have to do too much, like
34:05
less is more, as they say. And I figured, yeah, he did his
34:08
promo, he took it to him and on the mic, and I thought he did a
34:11
really great job. No, is it sink or swim?
34:14
Isn't it when you're in there with someone like him and on the
34:16
mic and kind of not just live a back to it?
34:18
But like I said, like, you know, ricochet sort of like a Thor's
34:21
sore thumb against Jericho, whereas over Fermi looked like
34:24
you'd been in that scene on the mic with main event players for
34:28
years. So not was it was excellent And
34:30
like it's mad to think that like obviously debuted at the Rumble,
34:34
but like his first ever main roster pay-per-view singles
34:37
match. It's going to be at WrestleMania
34:38
versus Brock Lesnar. That's massive.
34:41
Like do you know what I mean? Like the there are kind of
34:43
putting a lot of faith in them and I hope the pull the trigger.
34:46
Do you think he has to win or do you think he can lose in it not
34:50
affect them? Because I think at this point he
34:52
has to win. Or both, I mean.
34:55
Yeah. I don't think he has to win.
34:58
I think I think he probably does win, but I think I could see
35:02
Brock after the dig deep and Brock maybe being like a cheater
35:05
to get the win, which I think if they're going to keep them
35:08
around and you've got to have Obafemi chase Brock to get his
35:11
win back, that could be pretty cool.
35:13
And I think if you have Brock like beaten by cheating, whether
35:16
it's like with a steel chair or like however he does it, then it
35:22
I don't think it damages him. But it also means like imagine
35:25
Obafemi gets beat because Brock cheated.
35:27
It means we're going to have an even angrier Obafemi after Mania
35:30
chasing Brock to get his win back.
35:32
I think that could be fantastic television, but I think you'd
35:35
have to have Brock beaten by cheating.
35:37
Yeah, no, fair enough. Yeah, I think it's obviously
35:40
it's always the case. It's in the delivery.
35:41
But yeah, for me, I feel like he has to win.
35:43
And I hope that regardless what happens with the result that
35:47
like even stays in the main event picture and doesn't maybe
35:50
get given a mid car title. I feel that like he's almost
35:53
suppressed, suppressed that already.
35:55
But I think to keep him hot, you need to keep him like in a hot
35:58
feud, like with a kind of made guy, like maybe then go straight
36:01
into a feud with Gunther. Or do I mean something like that
36:03
where I don't think he needs to win US or an IC title?
36:06
I think you just need to keep facing kind of the big names.
36:10
Do you think they keep them with Brock for the months after
36:12
Maniac? So I'm thinking do they go like
36:13
a no contest? Like the both destroy each other
36:15
no contest and then this feud goes on and on for the next few
36:19
people views? Yeah, I wouldn't mind that.
36:21
I feel like they'll struggle with on telly on TV every week
36:25
because I feel like that at that point now it's ready.
36:28
But if Brock loses, sorry, if Brock wins, I think yeah, you
36:32
might get a bit more mileage out of it.
36:33
But like I say, for me, what I would want to see is all the
36:36
family wins and that's him and Brock done for now.
36:38
And then you move. You just move everyone on.
36:41
Yeah, my next was I thought Liv Morgan was fantastic.
36:45
The unhingedness, the hatred between her and Stephanie for
36:50
choir like seems, you know, I think more being worked, but it
36:53
seems like legit and it's like it's great.
36:55
It's it's tenacious. It's it's like it's pure hatred.
36:59
It comes across in the camera. I thought libs unhingedness was
37:02
was fantastic and I've probably already sold on this feud buying
37:05
this. This really saw that mean I was
37:07
like this is the women's match. I'm really looking forward to a
37:10
WrestleMania begin. Yeah, and I think it's in the
37:12
only way. I think I said before the care
37:13
needs a good match and I think she has to defend as well.
37:17
I think if I was go more moment that I'd keep the belt on her,
37:20
but I tell you, someone who doesn't won't be looking forward
37:23
to this match at WrestleMania. Who's that?
37:26
Good old Dave Melter. You see what he said this week
37:29
about Stephanie? What's wrong with good old
37:31
Melter? What's up with him?
37:33
Well he just says that like she might be on telly every week and
37:36
won multiple World Championships across different brands in WWE.
37:40
I like how even he puts that as a negative.
37:41
But by signing with WWE, she's turned downloads of five star
37:45
matches with other women who aren't employed by the WWE.
37:50
Does he mean his own rated five star matches?
37:54
Well, I'd imagine so, yeah. But he feels that like, yeah, so
37:57
him. So what, he says.
37:58
There's that TV time, championships and money, which,
38:02
you know, checks and championships, Booker TS
38:04
favorite things are aren't as important as stars.
38:08
I mean doing as well like 5 star matches.
38:10
Are they great to get that from from who argues you If it's him,
38:13
whatever. But I think again, it goes back
38:16
to like, you know, and I love all wrestling, but you know, you
38:21
can do 62 backflips in a row and land on somebody in a bingo hall
38:25
full of 20 people and you give you loads of stars or a cold
38:28
gravy's finger in 80,000. The crowd go wild.
38:32
Like, do you know what I mean? Which one's more successful you
38:37
know I mean? It's not even about what's most
38:39
successful. It's like for me, the best
38:40
wrestling shows is a variety show.
38:42
So you can have a five star match and you can have a
38:44
gimmick. Do you know what I mean?
38:45
It doesn't like and if you went in just so sure that was just
38:48
five star pure wrestler matches, you'd probably be bored by the
38:51
end. Like you need variety anyways.
38:53
And I just thought it was a weird comment really, because
38:55
it's essentially shitting on the whole WE women's division.
38:59
Yeah. So it's it's it's either doing
39:01
that and saying that you feel that there's nobody in the W 1's
39:04
division that can produce a five star match, or it's him
39:06
essentially shown as bias and that you won't get 5 stars at
39:09
WWE. So yeah, I thought was quite a
39:10
bit of a reveal and we had comment to make.
39:13
Yeah, especially, I think in reality, right.
39:15
Take Kurt Angle, one of the greatest of all time in my
39:18
opinion, had five star matches with likes of with Ben Moore
39:21
with with Eddie, with Brock, with Stone Cold, with the Rock.
39:25
You know he's fought them all Undertaker, but then he could
39:27
also like wear a city hat and sing Jimmy crack corn a. 100%
39:32
and is an angle one of the ones where Melson never gave him a
39:35
five star match in WWE is only one five star Mel so much as a
39:39
TNA match? I'm sure that's angle.
39:41
Probably is because he's a little more for himself, that's
39:42
why. Yeah, so I just thought it was a
39:44
weird comment to make about Stephanie the care, because it's
39:46
like I, I just it it, it contradicted itself.
39:51
But then he often does. I think that's the thing I don't
39:52
like about him. Yeah, I mean, just to cover, I'm
39:55
not like a head of the Observer. I think Brian Alvarez, for
39:59
example, like I like listening to, I don't always agree with
40:01
him, but I like listening to his point of view.
40:03
And even when I don't agree, I can sort of see what he's
40:05
saying. I like Brian Alvarez, who who
40:08
works for the Wrestling Observer.
40:10
But whenever Dave's on, I just went out.
40:13
I just think like he's, he's. He's not for me as what I'll say
40:18
and I don't think he's he's got this like one mind vision, like
40:21
where he's made himself a wrestling journalist to be
40:24
himself, the wrestling journalist in his head.
40:27
So that like his system is like what it is, but actually it's
40:31
not. It's almost as we cook.
40:33
He's a character and it's a gimmick now.
40:35
Do you know what I mean? Like it's, I think he's lost a
40:37
lot of his kind of authenticity. Did he say he was at Smackdown
40:41
or getting getting shit? Well it was during the Mac or
40:44
doing a match one. It was yeah, I was watching
40:46
intently see how many stars he gave my card owner but yes, I
40:49
mean that fan filament giving him shit a fucking loser as well
40:52
like but I thought it was quite funny how intently he was
40:54
watching the my card owner much. Yeah, if I ever put in the Dave
40:57
now, I wouldn't give him shit. I wouldn't be like, I disagree.
40:59
You I'll just be like, I'll probably say hello, Dave, how
41:00
are you? I mean.
41:02
That's because you're a normal human being, isn't it?
41:03
We had to film someone and just give them shit like there was no
41:07
winners and that's it in that video clip.
41:10
Indeed, my final positive was, and again, this was like it was
41:14
just done simply by thought. Pumpkin Rains go home promo.
41:17
I thought it was it was simple. It kept the feud like exactly
41:22
where it is. It's simmering on the pan.
41:23
It's ready to eat when we're going to eat it this weekend.
41:25
And I just thought like, yeah, like this is the Super fight I'm
41:29
ready for. It's generation versus
41:31
generation. It's a super fight.
41:32
It's top dog versus top dog. It's the past versus the present
41:38
and yeah, I'm, I'm just ready for this to enjoy it.
41:40
You know what, I think I'm a big CM Punk fan.
41:42
I think everyone knows that, you know, I think Robin Party wins,
41:45
but I'm just excited to see what happens and where it goes.
41:48
No, definitely because I'm excited to see where it goes.
41:51
Now let's say I thought the promo was fine.
41:52
I quite like the like. This is why I hate you.
41:55
This is why I hate you. There was honesty in it I
41:57
thought was good, but again, nothing like amazing.
41:59
But yeah, I think you're right. It's just I'm excited to see
42:01
where it goes because I've kind of I feel Roman does win, but
42:04
I've got no idea how you get to that finish.
42:06
And is there any surprises? Because did you notice Roman
42:09
Reigns kept saying we we're going to put this right.
42:13
We are going to do like as in when he was going to be Punk.
42:16
So I wonder if that's a little nod to is he going to line with
42:20
McAfee and Orton? Is there a TQ executive?
42:23
Is The Rock going to be there? But yeah, used we a lot.
42:26
What one of its the hedge ringers?
42:28
It might be the hedge rate. I mean, are they both still
42:30
alive other the hedge, yeah. But yeah, I could.
42:33
But yeah, so I thought that was quite an interesting phrase of
42:35
it. And I might just be doing
42:36
nothing, wrestling fans doing reading too much into something.
42:38
But yeah, I did use we a lot and that.
42:41
But yeah, I think it was fine. But like I've said, I think that
42:44
the the only thing that their feud suffered from is that I
42:47
think the build from Elimination Chamber of the WrestleMania has
42:50
been too long. And Rains announced the night
42:52
after Elimination Chamber that he was going to face Punk.
42:56
Yeah, I don't know if it's if it's on Rob.
43:00
He's referenced it in some other promo videos they've done on
43:02
their social media racing. Like I told you, I was coming
43:05
for you. I told you to enjoy it and you
43:07
haven't. I thought it was quite cool.
43:08
So he sort of, he sort of hinted at that.
43:09
But by the way, I wasn't joking about any Simone's being dead.
43:12
I was just joking. The fact that Simone's probably
43:15
will help Robin because there's lots of Simone's in the WB
43:18
family isn't. It and if you were Jordan about
43:20
that like Sam Punk did, you'd have to go and apologize to
43:22
Roman because even Punk did. So yeah, don't don't make jokes
43:25
about the Simones. There is a lot of them.
43:27
Yeah, but the best one. Smart, alright.
43:29
Yes, yeah. Don't come at me people, I'm
43:33
just having some fun. Have you covered all your
43:36
negatives? You have you still got some
43:37
left? No, so I've got one in.
43:40
I'll spin it into why it's a negative positive.
43:43
So last week when we positives was I was really looking forward
43:45
to Edge and Christian and FTR didn't deliver for me.
43:49
So couple reasons why it didn't deliver.
43:51
I thought like if you just watch it as a match, I thought their
43:54
first match was better, that can happen fine.
43:56
But then edging Christian not winning was the negative because
43:59
I feel like that feuds done like I don't like as far as tag team
44:04
wrestling goes, yeah, they're great, but I just don't rate FTR
44:07
as an act either. I think there are another ones
44:09
where they kind of believe their own bullshit and I think if you
44:12
have to refer to yourself as top guys, you might not be top guys.
44:15
So it was one of those ones where with how the match
44:17
finished, I feel like we're going to get another Edge and
44:20
Christian FTR match where they finally get the belts.
44:22
But I think it was should have been done at Dynasty and then
44:26
they move on and have some other fun matches with kind of other
44:30
tag teams, probably the young books, things like that for the
44:32
titles. So yeah, I thought that was a
44:34
disappointing because the match wasn't great.
44:35
And again, talking about safety and things like that, I don't
44:39
know. But did obviously see where Edge
44:41
got busted open. Yep.
44:43
That looked like an accident because they just slapped them
44:45
in the head with the belt. Yeah, so.
44:47
I think it was the hard way. Yeah, and again, it's like
44:50
anytime something that happens at Edge, like people who hit AW,
44:54
use that quote against somewhere like I'm here just having fun,
44:57
and then they'll show the clip. I'm jumping off the seal cage.
45:00
And then I've seen a couple of people use that quote for that
45:03
belt slapped to the face. So yeah, I didn't think the
45:05
match lived up to what I wanted to be in.
45:06
The last match was definitely better.
45:08
And I just think and now don't care about seeing Asian
45:11
Christian versus FTR again, other than them to take the belt
45:15
in kind of the positive on it is that kind of in the opposite
45:18
way. Osprey and Moxley I thought was
45:22
excellent and Moxley won that because I think there's still
45:25
plenty more meat on the bones. And it was just a basic
45:28
one-on-one match, 20 minute time limit because of the continental
45:31
championship in Moxley. Winning keeps that feud going
45:34
because Osprey hasn't had his revenge yet.
45:36
And you know, you're probably going to end up getting some
45:37
kind of really gnarly, dangerous match with them.
45:40
So I thought that was kind of a positive negative of the wrong
45:44
put, wrong people winning, right guy winning and why?
45:47
So kind of one feud was done as and Christian should have won
45:50
one feud is and that's why Moxley won.
45:52
So yeah, I was disappointed with the outcome of Edge and
45:56
Christian's match. Do you think so?
46:00
I do like FTR. I'm not like a mega family.
46:03
I do like them. I appreciate them.
46:05
They don't need this story. I don't know why they need him.
46:08
I think because they're not over like with live crowds like I
46:13
generally do. I think I don't think the great
46:14
talkers and what they do is they do it and you know when the bell
46:18
goes, which is absolutely great that they are like the one of
46:21
the best tag team when it comes to wrestling.
46:23
But yeah, I just think it's because they're not over like
46:26
with live crowds. So the puts totally with them is
46:28
something different to try and get them like a response because
46:32
he does a lot of the talk on for them and I think it's purely
46:34
because of that. But again, I don't think it
46:37
works like it just it's like it's an odd pair and odd couples
46:40
can work in wrestling, but that hasn't.
46:43
But yeah, I think he's only there for that fact.
46:45
Yeah, like when they were they were with them.
46:49
What's he the other one of the not on on us and he's talking
46:52
partner. What was he called again?
46:57
Terry? Terry Blanchard.
46:59
Yeah, I think he was within that worked.
47:02
Yep. But then but this story thing
47:04
doesn't work. That makes sense.
47:07
No, it doesn't. But like I say, yes, it's too
47:09
much of an odd couple it yeah, so.
47:12
But like I say, I'm just not that big a fan of them
47:14
generally. Any more positives?
47:16
Yeah, I've got a few actually. I really enjoyed the last bit of
47:20
build up for Drew for two. I really enjoyed Drew's promo in
47:24
what was supposedly Jacob sell and I really like the line.
47:28
He said out that the the system didn't fail.
47:30
Jacob failed me because he let him out and he cost me WE
47:33
championship. I think Drew's one of the and
47:37
next. And then he posted a picture of
47:38
him, handcuffed him under the Drew so penitentiary, which is
47:41
good. I think Drew is one of those
47:42
really good people have been like working heel and doing that
47:47
classic thing a heel does of like just to find his own
47:49
actions. Like failed to mention that you
47:51
only won the title because Jacob got involved.
47:53
So yeah, I thought that was like a nice little bit of word play
47:55
and I thought it was really good.
47:57
Like how how long do you think the stretch this Jacob's a
48:00
criminal thing out for? Like, because I know it's
48:03
obviously it's, you know, he wasn't prison.
48:05
It was true. But like, how long do you get
48:07
out of it till it's like, yeah, we know.
48:09
Like do you think it'll be done after this or do you think it's
48:10
something that I kind of constantly be referenced?
48:15
I thought like by anyone he's facing.
48:17
I think it'll turn into like Eddie Guerrero in the Addict
48:20
where like you overcome that and that's a, that's a, that's a
48:23
hero who was done that. So I think that's what we'll do
48:26
with it. It'll turn into like some people
48:28
will call it Eddie Addict. And you'd be like, I am an
48:30
addict. I say, remember that promo,
48:32
right? Yeah.
48:32
Yeah, against Brock, Yeah. But I beat those demons now.
48:35
I'm addicted to professional wrestling.
48:36
I'm addicted to them. I can see, I can see Jacob
48:39
people bringing up and be like, yeah, like, overcome that to
48:42
like, come here and fight for these people.
48:44
And in this ring, it's my prison and I'm going to defeat you.
48:47
That type of thing maybe. And it could be a really good
48:49
edge for Jacob. Yeah, no, I see.
48:52
I don't hate it, but I just feel that like how yeah, like I feel
48:55
it has got a shelf life of like where it loses any value.
48:58
But like Drew's done really good stuff with this.
49:00
It's going to that one quickly because we are, you know, we're
49:03
going on a lot because WrestleMania weekend.
49:05
I enjoy what they did with Rollins and Gunther.
49:07
It goes back when we were talking about Hangman in MGF.
49:10
It was a feud that come out of Norway.
49:12
It made no sense where they're going to give us some kind of
49:14
convoluted reason and they didn't.
49:16
Gunther just come out and said Rollins pissed him off because
49:18
he went around saying he was the best wrestler in the world and
49:20
he's not. I, I am simple done it put my
49:23
like level up for it now because I knew it was going to be a good
49:25
wrestling match, but I just didn't get the story going in.
49:28
But it's simple now. I'll take it.
49:29
That'll do for me. Yeah, I love that.
49:31
When I was like when I was world champion and you could have come
49:34
and fought me. You didn't like you, you
49:36
Dodgers, but you still came to the best.
49:39
Well, guess what, You can't, Dodgers.
49:40
Now I'm coming for you. So yes, fully on board.
49:42
It's simple. It's men fighting to prove who
49:46
was the best. And yeah, let's do this.
49:48
Let's get. Let's get it on, brother. 100%,
49:51
yeah. So, yeah, those were those were
49:52
my positives. And you kind of hit everything,
49:54
positives and negatives and you kind of hit everything off
49:56
there. Awesome.
49:57
So it's time for our next segment.
49:59
That is a moment in time. So we look at a wrestling match
50:02
a moment, an event that was great and we think has great
50:06
value and we enjoyed it. But it doesn't necessarily get
50:08
mentioned all the time like, you know, Austin Rock or, you know,
50:13
with Mania or you know, Andre slamming, sorry, Hogan slamming
50:17
Andre, that type of thing. You know and you are picked this
50:23
weeks moment in time which is a wrestling match Luke.
50:26
I have, yeah. So it comes from Armageddon
50:28
2004. I've gone for the main event,
50:31
which was the WWE title match, which saw the champion JBL
50:34
defending in a fatal four way against Eddie Guerrero, Booker T
50:38
and Undertaker. So before we kind of jump into
50:41
that match, but housekeeping on a moment in time.
50:43
So let's say it was Armageddon 2004, December 12th, and it was
50:47
a Smackdown exclusive pay-per-view.
50:48
Remember when they used to do those Raw and Smackdown when
50:50
they took the brand split seriously?
50:52
The good old is. It was in Duluth, GA.
50:54
Do you know anything about Duluth, GA?
50:56
Because I don't. I know Atlanta, GA has obviously
50:59
WCW in Rhodes country but other than that that's all I know.
51:02
But not Duluth. It's got the awesome Jim Johnson
51:04
song used for Armageddon as well.
51:06
This is the end one. It's like you came to me in a
51:09
dream last night. This is there.
51:12
So I forgot that I'd forgotten all about that song existed and
51:15
I have listened to a couple of times this week since I.
51:17
Yeah. What?
51:18
Rewatched that match. She had a classic announced team
51:21
of Call and Taz on comms. They're two of my favorites.
51:23
I thought they always did a really good job together.
51:26
And then, yeah, so the rest of the card, before we go into the
51:30
match that we've picked, you had RVD and Ray Mysterio beat Renee
51:33
Dupree and Kenzo Suzuki. Another match which I had no
51:39
memory of. Kurt Angle beat Santa Claus by
51:40
submission. Can you remember Kurt beating
51:45
Santa? I didn't, but then when I when I
51:48
watched it, I was like, Oh yes, off.
51:50
I forgot this was a thing. I don't know.
51:53
We know the person because Kurt like destroys him in 25 seconds,
51:56
right? Yeah, so I'll watch this.
51:59
So again, it was quite good logic.
52:01
He just said that like he hates Santa because it's Christmas
52:04
time in his daughter thinks Santa as a hero, but he's not a
52:07
real hero. He's fake.
52:09
Whereas Kurt Angle is a hero because he won a gold medal with
52:11
a broken freaking neck. So as far as putting it is, it's
52:15
they do what? I mean, they've give you a logic
52:17
to it. So, yeah, I could Angle beat
52:18
Santa Claus by submission again. Little fun one on there.
52:21
Daniel Pewda beat the maze in a Dixie dogfight.
52:24
So this was getting to the kind of end of Tough Enough, which
52:27
Daniel Pewda wins, doesn't he? But it's not him that we're
52:30
still talking about. What day is it?
52:31
It's Mr. Miss. Yeah, Mr. Miss, known as Mike
52:33
Mazanin in this view. Yeah, Basham Brothers, who were
52:37
part of JBL cabinet at the time, be Hardcore Holly and Charlie
52:40
Haas. John Cena beat Carlito's
52:43
bodyguard. Hey Zeus, can you remember why
52:45
John Cena wasn't very happy with Hey Zeus?
52:48
Honey try to stab him or something, is that right?
52:49
He had stabbed him, Yeah. So I think it was the first
52:52
time, Cena, I take a bit of time off to make a film.
52:54
I think it might be in the Marine, actually.
52:56
And the storyline was he was out in a club and, hey, Zeus stabbed
52:58
him. So he didn't try to stab him.
53:00
He actually did stab him. I remember that.
53:02
That was a great storyline. Yeah, Dawn Marie beat Miss
53:06
Jackie Charlie Hass's ref so Charlie has to in double duty
53:09
that Nice. Didn't realize that ever
53:10
happened. On a pay-per-view Big Show beat
53:12
Luther Raines, Kurt Angle and Mark Jindrak.
53:14
I do remember that tag to you. I think it kind of stemmed from
53:17
Kurt B and GM and I think Luther Raines and Jindrak were like his
53:20
muscles as heater and Funaki beat Spike Dudley for the
53:24
cruiserweight championship. So that was the rest of the
53:27
card. So bit of a mixed bag, I'd say
53:30
that one, we've had stronger cards when we're doing a moment
53:32
in time. Can you remember much from that
53:34
pay-per-view kind of going back over those matches or was it
53:36
kind of so that's been a bit lost in time?
53:39
I remember being like like Rebus, you know, Rob and I'm
53:45
being together as champs is obviously quite like those
53:48
aren't to get restless and probably do see each other a
53:50
little bit. But you know, it's like they're
53:52
different swinging. They get out here while they're
53:54
waiting for what's next. We're only Dupree and Kenzo
53:56
Suzuki. Again, it's not like a legit tag
53:57
team. It's more like we'll put these
53:59
people together. Two foreigners, wasn't it?
54:02
That was very much the He has two foreigners.
54:04
Let's put them together. Yeah, and I think obviously, you
54:06
know, John Cena being US champions a big thing.
54:09
Obviously he has still obviously the following WrestleMania is
54:12
when he gets his match against JBL for the for the title and
54:15
when wrestling changes for forever, I suppose you could
54:18
see, I mean not jumping to the main.
54:21
Remember, I think for me, I remember this this time of year
54:24
was like JBL came out of nowhere, left the Aqua acolytes,
54:29
turned traitor on Ron Simmons and then, you know, somehow beat
54:33
Eddie. You know, he didn't beat Eddie
54:35
Keane beat Eddie, screwed Booker T and beat Booker T screwed
54:39
take. And he was this this heel
54:40
getting real heat of a champion who no one thought should be
54:44
champion, but he was a champion and he was like cheating
54:47
everybody all the time in everybody's face.
54:49
You know, he's a great heel. And like in the built this P, if
54:52
you remember being like, no, like you've pissed them all off
54:55
and all come and fight at the same time that you're going to
54:57
get destroyed. Yeah, so that was the build up,
54:59
wasn't he cheated the more so Teddy Long player put them in a
55:02
fatal four way match and kind of build up for this is that kind
55:05
of the odds were really stacked against them because all of his
55:08
cabinet were banned and if they got involved, he'd be stripped
55:10
of the title. Picking up on something you said
55:12
there though, because I wanted to mention this in the positives
55:15
and negatives actually to do with MGF, but I'll circle back
55:18
to him later. But you said there JBL is a
55:20
great heel, which I agree with, but JBL didn't interview this
55:24
week and I was watching it and he said that like if someone
55:28
says you're a great heel, you're not because he doesn't believe
55:33
that. Like so his point was he was
55:35
talking about people who've got go away heat and he was like, go
55:38
away heat's not like not a bad thing.
55:40
That's what you want. He was like, if someone thinks
55:42
you're a great heel, then they know you're an actor Because I
55:44
think that bit like MGF, that was me point.
55:46
But he says like a heel. A proper heel should be someone
55:50
where you would pay money to have the shit kicked out of
55:53
them. Well, I will do that.
55:54
That's true. That's why I'm saying that.
55:56
I think I remember certainly few, but Eddie when he when he
55:59
you know, when he busts Eddie open with the belt the hard way
56:01
and it's it's like Eddie bleeding too much.
56:04
You know, when he makes Eddie's mum have a heart attack in the
56:06
ring. Like, do you remember all that?
56:09
Like and then Eddie, Eddie and now he gets the belt back.
56:12
Doesn't I remember and I was so glad that he was champion and
56:14
then JBL comes and takes it away.
56:16
Like I hate the JBL. I remember watching him being
56:18
like, like on those people who's where he would win and when he
56:22
when he would be Eddie, like I would be furious, even though I
56:26
knew it's like a work. I would be furious.
56:30
Yeah. And I think, I think.
56:31
That's why a good deal and. I think that's what he was
56:34
addressing, that people said he had go away heat.
56:36
But I totally agree with him that that's the kind of what
56:38
that's what you want. You want people to like hear you
56:40
where they're not like, Oh yeah, he's like, he's a bad guy, but I
56:44
like him because it's cool. Do you know what I mean?
56:46
It's like his big thing was that you wanted to be here and I
56:49
think he was very good at that. I think on camera and behind the
56:51
scenes, I mean, leading up with this match, there's a bit in the
56:54
ring where he's kind of where you've got Booker T Eddie.
56:56
Like on Smackdown, you've a Booker T Eddie and take in the
57:00
rig. JBL comes out and goes.
57:02
I don't know how to say this because I don't speak Mexican, I
57:05
don't speak demon and I don't speak hood.
57:07
So I'm just going to speak and play in English.
57:09
And like when he was kicking, like whenever he went to the
57:11
border, he was kicking Mexicans back into the country.
57:14
He was just a Dick. Like he had no redeemable
57:16
qualities. Like, and he didn't try to be
57:18
cool. Like, do you know what I mean?
57:19
He was kind of, you know, a bit chubby around the middle.
57:21
He had this lame cabinet. Like there was nothing to like
57:24
about him. Lame sports jacket.
57:26
He come out wearing a lame sports jacket is towel his
57:29
heart. He had his limo with that
57:32
Longhorn on which was it just looked ridiculous in a bad way.
57:35
Like yeah, like I said, he was he was a guy who like I I hated
57:41
him and I wanted when he won, I hated it.
57:43
Like, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think this really hated
57:46
it. Well, I think like why have I
57:48
tuned in to watch him? Like I know like Eddie needs to
57:52
beat him, damn it. Like and even then I'd be
57:54
checked. I wouldn't even check myself to
57:56
be like hanging a SEC Pete. It's all a work.
57:57
Just enjoy it. I'd be I'd be furious with it.
58:00
Like it's one of those ones where it's like we all know it's
58:02
a work, right? But the magic is when those
58:04
moments when they make you forget.
58:07
And JBL always made me forget that he was pretend to be a bad
58:11
guy. He always just made me hate him.
58:12
No. 100% and I think a lot of people are quite negative about
58:17
that long title really had because I think he held it from
58:19
a boat. He wouldn't pretty soon, didn't
58:21
he after I think he held it for an earlier year.
58:23
And I think a lot of people look at that as quite a negative and
58:25
they'll use TV ratings and things like that.
58:27
But I actually think it's up. There's one of my favorite like
58:30
title runs. But honestly, like I do and like
58:32
I say, I mean, this matches accumulation of the fact that
58:34
all this title run he's had long fuse with Eddie Guerrero, Booker
58:37
T and the Undertaker, like 3 of the greatest to ever do it.
58:40
After this, he fused with angle and big show, and then he drops
58:43
the belt to like the rise of John C.
58:46
You know, like that's an that's an impressive title run that
58:48
like that's, that's a lot packed in in a year.
58:51
Yeah, and I think it's what it leads to.
58:52
I think without that title reign, it gets us hungry for the
58:56
John Cena title reign because JBL has had it for so long.
58:59
Everybody hates his guts. John's on the rise.
59:02
Everyone loves John. So when them two meet because of
59:05
this year that they've both had, John's had a year of everyone
59:08
loving him and making people love him more.
59:10
Brad George had the year of making everybody hate him When
59:12
they meet, it's like perfect. It's like lightning in a bottle
59:16
and like, yeah, it's John's time to win the belt and go into
59:19
superstardom and you know it wouldn't be the same.
59:23
Well, JBL title run if that makes sense.
59:25
No, 100%. Let's say like I'm, I'm a big,
59:27
like big fan of JBL that run in particular.
59:30
And do you know, like when you have like when they'll show you
59:33
a picture of a title belt and it's like, who do you associate?
59:36
What was so restless? Do you associate with that belt?
59:38
Like that year of WE, that gold belt?
59:41
Like for me it's JBL. Yeah, definitely.
59:44
I think for me, like the Lesnan Guerrero feud, I love that.
59:48
So it's probably always Eddie for me, but but he's the
59:51
champion after so he's definitely a big part of this
59:53
year. Fun facts will work today.
59:56
What the news on like BBC News 24 and the big screens in the
1:00:00
canteen. It's no sound, but I don't know
1:00:03
why, but women's former Sunderland and England women's
1:00:08
footballer Jill Scott was on the telly.
1:00:10
She must have been in Dallas, TX for some reason and she was
1:00:12
wearing like a white cowboy hat and a white tracksuit jacket
1:00:14
and. It was like, oh look, it's JBL.
1:00:17
And I was like, fucking hell. Shit doesn't actually.
1:00:21
Do do, do, do get in jail, Scott, Big Texans.
1:00:26
But yeah, so so we jump into the match then.
1:00:29
Let's dive into this 25 minutes and 37 seconds match.
1:00:32
Yeah. Yeah, so it is quite long.
1:00:34
There's a lot of moving parts. So I think I'll just kind of
1:00:36
fire through the match and then we're kind of dissected
1:00:38
afterwards. So obviously cabinet aren't
1:00:40
allowed involved. So in the back JBL is getting
1:00:43
wished well by the cabinet. He's playing like a dead man
1:00:45
walking. He's looking very scared when
1:00:47
Eddie come out and it was that was definitely the biggest pop
1:00:49
jump in the car up and down and he was like smiling, like Eddie
1:00:52
had like an infectious smile, didn't he?
1:00:54
I absolutely love him. Like it was just it's great,
1:00:56
great to see him out there doing his thing.
1:00:59
So obviously matched us. JBL roll straight out, take a
1:01:02
straight in on Eddie. Great selling from Eddie because
1:01:04
obviously it has got a little bit of height on him.
1:01:06
So Eddie's kind of bumping around for Tiga.
1:01:08
That kind of distracts them too. So JBL sneaks in to try and pin
1:01:12
pin Booker T, take a chases JBL who breaks that up.
1:01:16
Well then we're down to Eddie and Booga.
1:01:19
We've got three-way punches where kind of JBL is getting bad
1:01:22
between Tiga Booga and Eddie. JBL backs out.
1:01:27
They've then got Eddie and Booker take team up on Taker.
1:01:31
Eddie doing a bit of psychology going for the knee or Taker.
1:01:33
I like that because I just thought he's the bigger man,
1:01:35
take his knees away. Taker and Booker T then kind of
1:01:38
spill out of the outside. You've then got JBL and Eddie
1:01:41
going at it inside. Booker T and Eddie work together
1:01:44
on JBL, keep Taker on the outside when he tries to get in
1:01:48
the ring. So again, kind of keeping the
1:01:49
big man out, trying to work on the kind of the cowardly heel.
1:01:52
JBL Eddie does a nice little classic vintage somersault over
1:01:55
the rope on a JBL kind of vintage Eddie Guerrero goes for
1:01:59
the pin book has not impressed their team at work done while
1:02:03
they're arguing. JBL goes for another sneaky roll
1:02:05
up attempt. So again, great heel work by
1:02:08
JBL. Kind of just waiting for that
1:02:10
distraction. Little roll ups behind people's
1:02:12
back take us back in. Big slight slam at JBL.
1:02:16
Eddie breaks up that pin, then he's thrown to the outside.
1:02:20
Massive J at the stake style DDT from Taker on Booker.
1:02:24
Like I thought it was really cool he tapped the back.
1:02:26
Big DDT kind of had a bit of J at the snake about and enjoyed
1:02:28
seeing that. JBL then tries to seal the pin
1:02:31
again after the Jake DDT. Taker takes JBL to the outside,
1:02:35
throws them into the steps. Eddie jumps on Taker's back with
1:02:38
a sleeper. Eddie gets flipped off.
1:02:40
Booker's then in, so Taker gets thrown into the crowd.
1:02:44
Spooker then tries to get involved.
1:02:45
Sorry Taker throws them into the crowd.
1:02:47
Then some more great heel work he wouldn't like to say in it
1:02:49
but great heel work from JBLS. He thumbs to take his eyes head,
1:02:53
throws his head into the seal steps.
1:02:55
He attempts to powerbomb take her through the table but big
1:02:58
backdrop body drop and JBL goes through the other table.
1:03:02
Eddie and take and Outback in the ring.
1:03:04
Really enjoy their little interaction because I looked
1:03:06
into it and the only other time Taker and Eddie met on a
1:03:10
pay-per-view was a Royal Rumble. So this is the only kind of
1:03:13
prior match you've ever got with Eddie and Take.
1:03:15
I enjoyed their stuff in the ring every time.
1:03:17
Like Take as dropping a backdrop on Eddie.
1:03:19
You know, Eddie's just going in full force.
1:03:21
Massive height, looks excellent. Booga back in the ring, then
1:03:25
goes for the big book in the corner.
1:03:28
Yeah, I'm sorry. Booga's back in, Take A throws
1:03:31
him at the corner, he goes for the big boot, misses it, I
1:03:33
guess. Thrown back out.
1:03:35
JBL sneaks back in again, trying to seal the pin.
1:03:37
At this point, we've got all four men back in the ring.
1:03:40
Take a Headlock chokes Eddie in the ropes that look really nice.
1:03:43
Eddie sells it well. Booker starts beating down on
1:03:46
Taker. This time Undertaker hits a
1:03:48
spine Buster. It was quite triple HS.
1:03:49
I felt like there was a few moves in this match that you
1:03:51
didn't normally see. Take a pull out goes for an old
1:03:54
school on Booker T, but Eddie stops him and he gets a boot for
1:03:57
his troubles. He then gets the hit old school
1:03:59
in Booker T because Eddie's being dispatched off for now.
1:04:02
Eddie breaks up the pin, goes in on Taker, gets thrown to the
1:04:05
outside by Undertaker, take that down.
1:04:08
Chasing Eddie, drapes him on the apron, hits the vintage leg
1:04:10
drop. Instantly met with a massive
1:04:13
clothesline from JBL again waiting in the wings looking for
1:04:16
his opportunity. JBL then throws Booga into the
1:04:19
stairs, back into the ring, chokes Booga with his wrist
1:04:23
tapes again, more heel work. He'll not like you say anybody
1:04:26
did. Now we get kind of the into the
1:04:28
final Sprint of the match where Eddie brings out a ladder, which
1:04:30
I did like to say because I know it's no disqualification but I
1:04:33
didn't expect to see a ladder massive ladder shot take his
1:04:36
head from Eddie. JBL grabs the title before he
1:04:39
can use it. Booger intercepts with a big
1:04:41
jump and sidekick Eddie and take I get one as well.
1:04:44
So this is Boogers little moment to shine.
1:04:46
Says I kick to Eddie who kicks out Booger back outside then
1:04:51
back outside. JBL thumb to Boogers eyes into
1:04:53
the steps that he did to take her, but this time he power
1:04:56
bombs him on the table but it doesn't break.
1:04:58
Did you notice this? That table didn't break but I
1:05:00
thought JBL improvised quite well.
1:05:02
He opens up a chain just hits like a shit you look at elbow
1:05:04
drop but the table finally breaks.
1:05:07
We then get a last ride from JBL through the end of that table.
1:05:10
Eddie then playing dead in the ring classic line and cheating
1:05:13
and stealing it draws taker in which obviously take I think
1:05:16
that he's down so he goes for the tombstone.
1:05:18
Eddie slips out with that, runs the ropes, which straight into a
1:05:21
massive choke slam Take then goes for a last ride on Eddie,
1:05:24
but again, lying and cheating and stealing.
1:05:26
He's got the title belt big smash to take as head frog
1:05:30
splash to take out. But I like this because Eddie's
1:05:31
like I've hit it, it's Undertaker, but that's not going
1:05:35
to be enough. So we run straight.
1:05:36
The other side hits a second five star frog splash kick out
1:05:40
by Taker, who sits up. Eddie now can't believe what
1:05:43
he's seeing. 2 frog splashes is not enough.
1:05:45
He's begging Taker to kind of give him give him a breathing
1:05:48
space. Tries to run, but he managed to
1:05:50
get a low blow on Taker. So I thought it was a nice
1:05:52
little bit of kind of vintage. Eddie doing what he does with
1:05:54
his lying, cheating and stealing ladder, gets dragged back in
1:05:57
into the ribs of Taker. Then another headshot of the
1:06:00
ladder. Taker.
1:06:01
Eddie sets the ladder up, climbs to the top.
1:06:03
Big frog splash from the top of the ladder.
1:06:05
Connects on Taker, connects on Taker.
1:06:08
Eddie sell in the knee that he can't crawl into it, which I
1:06:11
always like. We had this in the Brett Bulldog
1:06:13
match last week where you kind of hit your big move, but the
1:06:15
match has taken so much of A toll on you that you kind of
1:06:18
can't get the pin. So he gets there.
1:06:20
So yeah, he goes for that, but he doesn't get the pin because
1:06:23
just as he's about to hit the three, JBL pulls the ref out.
1:06:26
Take a catch. Another ladder shot from Eddie,
1:06:28
which knocks him to the outside. Eddie sets the ladder backup,
1:06:32
sidesteps a charge in JBL who connects into the ladder, will
1:06:37
then get the three amigos on. JBL goes for the pin, but this
1:06:40
time Booker breaks it up, Says I kick a JBL.
1:06:43
Taker breaks the pin, but all now back.
1:06:45
Four men in the ring, Snake eyes by take, followed by the big
1:06:48
boot on Eddie. Taker drops a leg on Eddie pin,
1:06:52
Booker breaks it, Chokes down to Booker and Eddie and JBL crosses
1:06:55
the throat. It's all over.
1:06:57
Goes with a tombstone on JBL. Then out of nowhere are fun
1:07:01
facts. Positive story of the week.
1:07:03
Heidenreich attacks Taker with a clothesline, beats them down.
1:07:07
Michael Cole lets us know that apparently Heidenreich's only
1:07:09
just been released from a psychiatric ward while this is
1:07:13
all going on. JBL crawls over.
1:07:14
Booker T kicks out, crawls over. Eddie kicks out.
1:07:18
Undertaker sits up but hiding right pulls take her back out
1:07:21
while everyone's distracted. Big clothesline from JBL, the
1:07:24
Booker T 123, the heel, the coward wins.
1:07:29
That was a lot. It was a lot.
1:07:32
I think the match psychology wise was perfect.
1:07:34
I think in the build up we see the cabinet are sort of almost
1:07:39
treating JBL like it's his funeral and he comes out like
1:07:43
not the usual JBL. He's missing these confidence
1:07:46
you've got to heal confidence about which he doesn't have.
1:07:48
He comes out as if he's ready to get beat.
1:07:49
He's going to have to hide to to stay alive in this match, which
1:07:53
is what he tries to do. I love the psychology, how sort
1:07:57
of all three of them want to get him, but then he takes himself
1:07:58
out of it. I love how the build take as the
1:08:02
big beast. So it's like Bugatti and Eddie
1:08:04
team up and then take is on his own, but he's so big he can be
1:08:08
like a team of two. And then then there's JBL.
1:08:11
I loved everything that he does in this match.
1:08:13
Working would take a bit more than you know.
1:08:14
He's just so clean. You can see bits where like the
1:08:16
ladder's in there and you can see Eddie moving bits around the
1:08:19
match. Just make sure everything clicks
1:08:21
and works properly. Like timing wise.
1:08:23
You can see he's just being a ring general, which is great in
1:08:26
the aisle of JBL, sort of trying to hide wherever he could, then
1:08:29
having to come get involved to break up pins, which he didn't
1:08:31
want to have to get involved, but he has to get closer.
1:08:34
I loved how getting the paint and take as the big bad beast,
1:08:38
especially when he takes 2 frog spotters and sits up and he sets
1:08:41
up again. And then essentially it's
1:08:43
Heidenreich who was the man who costs Undertaker here of.
1:08:47
Course everyone doesn't he because he provides the
1:08:49
distraction. He doesn't deed.
1:08:50
I think it's like, it's almost like, you know, JBL wouldn't
1:08:53
tonight because there's nothing that he did.
1:08:57
You know, somebody else did something not even on his
1:08:59
behalf, I don't think. No, like, yeah, I know it was a
1:09:02
big rundown. I did it that much, but I want
1:09:04
to try and kind of get that in there.
1:09:05
But like, JBL doesn't do a lot that a lot of the stuff he tries
1:09:09
to do gets reversed. So like actual wrestling that
1:09:12
much. But if, you know, we'll say
1:09:13
about 25 minutes, like JBL probably has about four minutes
1:09:16
of wrestling in this. It's just, again, great
1:09:18
character work, sneaking in constantly for pins, roll UPS,
1:09:22
getting people when they're down, pulling the refs out.
1:09:23
Then he sees an advantage, he takes it, and he leaves with the
1:09:25
title. Yeah, it's just been a part of
1:09:27
Chicken Shake Coward, which I think was fantastic.
1:09:30
No, it wasn't because he's like a bigger guy.
1:09:32
It's quite fun to see that because it's like, you know what
1:09:34
I mean? Like he doesn't look out a place
1:09:35
with any of the like goes all four of those guys are big.
1:09:37
But like, yeah. So I think it really like adds
1:09:39
to the chicken shit thing where he is such a big guy as well.
1:09:42
I like it. No, definitely.
1:09:44
But yeah, that was all my thoughts.
1:09:45
Just the psychology was great of him being a chicken shit heal,
1:09:48
how other guys are trying to beat him and how he's trying to
1:09:52
not get involved with has to do with certain points and then
1:09:55
eventually how he wins now like how he escapes through the crowd
1:09:58
and then the security like get him out fast.
1:10:01
Yeah, and I like the use of the ladder because obviously, you
1:10:03
know, fail for win or disqualification, so you could
1:10:05
have brought loads of weapons in if you wanted, but obviously
1:10:08
just picked 1 and it was used effectively.
1:10:10
Like those head shots Undertake from Eddie look nasty.
1:10:13
And then obviously you get the nice five star frog splash off
1:10:15
the top of a ladder, which looks cool.
1:10:18
So yeah, I thought it was good that they kind of obviously had
1:10:19
that right. We'll use 1 weapon and this is
1:10:21
what we'll use. Definitely.
1:10:23
And I think, again, you know, Bradshaw wins here and we're
1:10:27
hitting forward like absolutely fucking hell, man, why Bradshaw?
1:10:29
Why? Why are you winning?
1:10:31
But again, it's going to build because, you know, this is
1:10:33
Armageddon. We're going to get a
1:10:34
WrestleMania in March or April the following year.
1:10:37
And that's when Big John beats JBL and we get the birth of John
1:10:41
Cena, the world champion. Yeah, definitely.
1:10:44
And it was the right, he was the right person for seeing that
1:10:46
beat. As we've said, it was the kind
1:10:48
of streetwise kid against the kind of arrogant prick heel
1:10:51
elitist. So now it was, again, it's quite
1:10:53
simple old school storytelling. I just thought it was a good
1:10:56
match because like, you know, you've got 4 Hall of Famers in
1:10:58
that match and I think it's one people might kind of easily
1:11:00
forget about, which is kind of the whole purpose of this
1:11:02
segment. And I just thought it was like a
1:11:03
lot of fun and every like everyone plays the path well,
1:11:06
like everyone gets a bit of a shine.
1:11:08
There's lots of nice little mini moments between like different
1:11:11
one-on-one sentence in the match.
1:11:12
And I think it's a really good match.
1:11:15
Yeah, or my favorite spot, as much as when Tigger gives any
1:11:18
vicious choke slam and any sort of when tears pick not be given
1:11:22
the last ride, he picks up the title belt on the floor and when
1:11:26
he goes up for Eddie, clocks him in the head with the belt.
1:11:28
I was just a swing. So simple, but something so
1:11:31
good. But yeah, and it when it was
1:11:33
like that was the Eddie Guerrero character because that was the
1:11:35
whole he drew take her in by pretending to be down, kind of
1:11:38
gets out with the tombstone, but then gets that chalk slam.
1:11:41
And then when you think Take has got him, he still got one last
1:11:43
trick obviously with the belt and then he again gets another
1:11:46
low blow in after that. So I thought it was like it made
1:11:48
us wish that we had a had a proper Eddie undertake a feud at
1:11:51
some point because like the chance the, you know, fleeting
1:11:54
moments he got in this match with them too.
1:11:55
I thought that worked really well together.
1:11:57
And the way Eddie can bump it make take a lot like more of a
1:12:00
monster. Like the chalkslam.
1:12:01
I say there was 1 back body drop he did with like the height on
1:12:03
it was massive. Yeah, it was crazy.
1:12:04
I mean, that was mental. Like, fantastic wasn't crazy.
1:12:10
Are you ready for the next time? And Luke?
1:12:12
I am, yeah. Where we're going next?
1:12:14
So we're going to go to did they really say that?
1:12:16
This is where we look back at the court.
1:12:18
It could be from a book, from a role, from a smackdown.
1:12:20
It could be in a magazine, could be from a shoot interview, just
1:12:22
something somebody said, could be a tweet or a social media
1:12:26
post. And you have got this week's Did
1:12:28
They Really Say That? Yeah, so I've gone, I've gone
1:12:31
modern again. Me.
1:12:32
So did he see Triple H Was on Cody Rhodes's podcast this week.
1:12:37
I have, I've only watched half of it so far.
1:12:40
Good thought was really good interview like like I liked it
1:12:42
all from start to finish. That was good stuff.
1:12:44
But the the quote I've picked out from it isn't actually from
1:12:46
Triple H. It's from Greg the hammer
1:12:48
Valentine. So Cody tells a story where Greg
1:12:51
the hammer was at OVWO Florida Championship Wrestling, I forget
1:12:54
which one. And he's kind of asking them all
1:12:57
why, why do we work out? Why do we go to the gym?
1:13:00
And Cody said that like, you know, a lot of people like you
1:13:02
know, so you so you look in shape so you can go in the ring
1:13:05
different like kind of generic answers you'd expect.
1:13:07
So Greg Valentine's and this is the quote.
1:13:10
No, we'll go to the gym so that we'll look like we can beat up
1:13:13
the marks. I did hear this.
1:13:16
I did hear this story on it, You know, I think yes.
1:13:21
I think if you, I mean to break it down, what does he mean?
1:13:24
I suppose it could be many means, but I think for me it's
1:13:27
funny because I think Greg Amma probably had a funny side.
1:13:30
I think he's been a little bit funny here.
1:13:32
So he's making a joke, but it's also, it is legit.
1:13:35
I think if you are going to watch people fight each other,
1:13:40
you need to believe that they can't fight each other.
1:13:42
And what makes them different from me fighting in the street
1:13:45
to watching them fight in a wrestling ring?
1:13:47
Well, one of those things is how they look the physique, right?
1:13:51
No, 100%. And they Triple H kind of went
1:13:53
well. I agree with them to a point,
1:13:54
like you were saying. And he kind of touched on kind
1:13:57
of, you know, you can have a guy who looks like Brock Lesnar.
1:13:59
And if Brock Lesnar didn't look like Brock Lesnar, would he
1:14:01
still be as intimidating? And then he used kind of like, I
1:14:03
think Jacob Fatu, maybe there's a completely different body
1:14:06
type, but he's still terrifying. But the kind of reason I picked
1:14:09
the quote is that I think that's one of the things where I think
1:14:12
like, especially people who are kind of, you know, a bit a bit
1:14:15
much online. So I think Sami Zayn is an
1:14:18
interesting one because a lot of the kind of criticism he gets is
1:14:20
that people say he looks like a bum, doesn't look in shape,
1:14:22
doesn't look like a wrestler. Eddie Kingston, someone as well
1:14:26
in AW, who gets like a lot of kind of negative comments about
1:14:30
his appearance. So kind of where do you lie with
1:14:32
like that comment then? Do you think everyone has to
1:14:34
look like they're a killer or kind of still work without it?
1:14:38
Saying what does a killer mean? I think the killer does not mean
1:14:40
you have to have B Hulk Hogan, right?
1:14:42
I think it works as me, like Hulk Hogan, you know he's going
1:14:45
to bench pressure to death, right?
1:14:46
He's going to pick it before you or he's going to slam you,
1:14:48
right. But you have someone like Eddie
1:14:50
Kingston or even like again, Sami Xayman, he's a heel and he
1:14:54
looks a bit unhinged in his brain where like it's about the
1:14:59
look. So you do have to you have to
1:15:01
have some type of look that that finds you Take Mick 40 as
1:15:03
mankind. Take the first version of
1:15:05
mankind that we see like the boiler shot mankind, like he's
1:15:08
intimidating his fuck because he's like, you know, he's doing
1:15:11
his own. Mick goes to the gym, but he's
1:15:13
not he's not a body guy, right, But he doesn't need to be
1:15:16
because he has that look. He's of his body, but also in
1:15:19
his eye. You know what I mean?
1:15:22
And I think if you want somebody who can change his look, if you
1:15:25
go back to that Mick 40 Mankind promo when he's telling Triple
1:15:27
H, he's too scared of fighting him at the Hoya Rumble in the
1:15:30
street fight and he takes the mask off and he's I know
1:15:32
somebody who can and like Mick's eyes change, but it's his eyes.
1:15:37
The don't the don't change with the do.
1:15:39
And it's like you see the change of like from the scared mankind
1:15:42
to like the fucking unhinged Cactus Jack like like that.
1:15:47
And that's just he changed his eyes.
1:15:51
So I think it's not necessarily always about body, but I think
1:15:55
it's about like, do you have something, an era about yourself
1:15:59
that you change on Aura? I don't know what your thoughts
1:16:02
are. I don't know if I've got off
1:16:03
topic there, but that's where mine.
1:16:04
No, no, you haven't. Because I think like Foley kind
1:16:06
of falls into, like you said, he's not a body guy, but he was
1:16:08
that Wildman persona. Maybe he's kind of the original
1:16:11
prototype of that. Might be someone like what?
1:16:14
He's got me head now, the wrestler who got stabbed in
1:16:17
Puerto Rico. Bruiser Brody.
1:16:19
Bruiser Brody, Like do you know what I mean?
1:16:20
Like that type of thing. So yeah, I think you just have
1:16:22
to have something about you that makes you look dangerous.
1:16:25
And it doesn't have to be that you look like Hulk Hogan.
1:16:28
So yeah, No, but I do think that I think that's part of the
1:16:31
again, come back to it. Like I think that's one of the
1:16:33
things I always struggled, like why I struggle so much with the
1:16:36
young books. Like I don't think they have
1:16:38
anything about them where like if you if you saw them in the
1:16:42
street and you went here mean Anna, are they wrestlers?
1:16:46
She's probably like other. So I do think they do what I
1:16:50
mean, like and I know everyone we are because they're really
1:16:52
good telling you. I'm not saying they're not good
1:16:53
technically, but I think that like to be a top top kind of
1:16:58
guy, top attraction within kind of, you know, the world of
1:17:00
wrestling. Like yeah, there's a couple of
1:17:02
factors that you have to have. Like, Daniel Bryan is someone
1:17:06
who, like, he could make his beard look raggy in his hair and
1:17:10
he looked a bit unhinged. So, like, you know, he never had
1:17:12
the height. He never had the kind of Hogan
1:17:15
like physique. But like, he looked dangerous
1:17:16
still because he put that effort into his appearance.
1:17:19
And I think one of the only people who like, like, obviously
1:17:22
have to think harder. But like, I think Sami Zayn's
1:17:24
one of the only ones where I kind of agree when people
1:17:26
criticize him for his look because like, yeah, I think he's
1:17:28
someone that he doesn't pose most of a threat.
1:17:30
And I know it's an underdog thing, but yeah, I think there's
1:17:33
been a lot better underdogs. But yeah, I thought was an
1:17:35
interesting comment because I think you're right.
1:17:36
You probably said it as a bit of a joke, like, you know, like
1:17:39
doing a class for a bunch of kind of young wrestlers.
1:17:41
But I think there is some valid volatility to it and Triple H
1:17:45
degree, so it must be right. Yeah, I think a joke that has
1:17:47
some truth, I think, you know, it's fun.
1:17:49
So it engages those young wrestlers syndrome.
1:17:51
You know, it's something fun that he said.
1:17:53
So it's good to engage him. Obviously Cody Ramos, the story.
1:17:55
So definitely engaged him, but I think but yeah, and it's like,
1:17:59
yeah, you do have to be able to engage the fans or the marks of
1:18:01
cease called them, whether it's just by being huge or whether
1:18:05
it's by being some other form of intimidation during me.
1:18:10
Well, that's with a look. Well, that's how you sound.
1:18:13
That's how you walk, whether it's just how big you are, like
1:18:15
that type of thing. But yeah, I thought it was a
1:18:19
good one because we, you know, we're we're someone who often go
1:18:21
off topic talking about people being jacked at the gills.
1:18:23
And it is something that like, I think especially when we started
1:18:26
watching wrestling, like it was very much like more bigger
1:18:30
jacked guys. So I think I do always like lean
1:18:33
towards that. Sometimes I do agree that you
1:18:35
have to look a certain way like because that that's the industry
1:18:39
that you chose to be into. I mean, if you don't agree with
1:18:41
that, then you might be in the wrong industry.
1:18:43
But you've got to be able to use it.
1:18:44
So I feel like take Mason Ryan, probably one of the most jacked
1:18:47
people in the business right over there.
1:18:49
But he hasn't made it because they would believe him.
1:18:53
Like maybe not Ryback game like a big big special of a man had
1:18:58
some success but then died out pretty quick because again, like
1:19:01
do we believe that he really is that?
1:19:03
Like, no we don't. I think, I think that was more
1:19:07
unlucky with him, you know, I think for there was a window
1:19:10
where I think people did believe it.
1:19:12
Yeah, I think it was a small window where they did, but I
1:19:14
think. But then, but then people didn't
1:19:16
and then that's the problem. Yeah, well, I think so.
1:19:19
He was still on. He was still there.
1:19:21
And people stop believing it. Where like, take Sam Punk, who's
1:19:24
not the biggest guy, right? He's not.
1:19:26
He went away for 10 years and people still wanting to see him.
1:19:30
No, definitely. I'm Punk, someone I thought you
1:19:31
know, Kevin Nash had a Gordon, didn't he quite recently for
1:19:33
wrestling with the T-shirt on? So I think it's a constant thing
1:19:36
and I think it's quite, quite interesting where like in this
1:19:39
kind of industry of like, you know, hard men and women, kind
1:19:42
of physique and appearance is brought up quite a lot that it's
1:19:46
like quite bitchy. And maybe it's not what you
1:19:48
would think from, you know, this industry of hard people.
1:19:50
But yeah, it is. It's a massive important thing.
1:19:52
What is definitely, I think, you know, we talk about a lot
1:19:55
outside of here as well, Like we're talking to wrestling fans
1:19:57
at work. You know, I loved how you know
1:19:59
when someone's jacked and huge, like Muckle, whatever word you
1:20:02
want to use. Like, I love that.
1:20:04
I love seeing that because it's just like.
1:20:06
You don't see it every day and it's like it's great to look at.
1:20:08
I think, you know, in a in a just as a wrestling fan.
1:20:11
But then my favorite wrestlers are like Sam Punk and Brett
1:20:13
Hart, who aren't the biggest. But when I see you, Bobby
1:20:16
Lashley, I always go, Jesus Christ.
1:20:18
Bobby Lashley's huge and I love it.
1:20:20
He's not my favorite, but but I love it.
1:20:22
Scott Steiner. He's not my favorite, but like
1:20:25
when I watch him in the peak of his freaky era, like, yeah, it's
1:20:28
just, it's just Cass. No, isn't it?
1:20:31
It's something that massively, massively interests me.
1:20:33
Like I'm I'm like someone who like at this point now I've lost
1:20:35
like 40 in stone and like I'm going to the gym more and you
1:20:38
know, I'm starting to take like creatine, not steroids and like
1:20:41
different stuff and like it generally interested.
1:20:43
And like, I think there's a lot of people who don't realize how
1:20:46
much works gone in to have a physique like that.
1:20:49
And obviously we talked about how hopefully sooner rather than
1:20:51
later we're going to have an interview series.
1:20:53
And one of the people that I'm going to interview is someone
1:20:55
who's like a personal trainer and A wrestling fan because I
1:20:57
think it's really interesting because like it's, it's one of
1:21:00
those kind of almost behind. There's a lot of work goes on
1:21:02
behind the scenes to to look as good as some of those guys do.
1:21:07
No, it certainly is. It's it's a lot of work, a lot
1:21:09
of work. I think to be a professional
1:21:12
wrestler and to be great at it, you have to a love it and be get
1:21:17
it. And if you, I mean, if you don't
1:21:20
have one of those things and I think you, you struggle to be
1:21:22
the top person. Not 100% because it's like it's
1:21:25
that dedication. It look like that as well
1:21:27
because like we've you use Hugh Chapman for Wolverine, right?
1:21:31
He's probably got a 10 month window where he does nothing but
1:21:33
work out. Still fucking impressive, but
1:21:35
that'll be his job for 10 months getting in shape.
1:21:38
But like the you know, wrestlers, they've got fucking
1:21:41
loads of travel, loads of press and they've got to wrestle
1:21:44
matches, but then still fit in enough time to fucking eat right
1:21:48
and get to the gym to maintain that.
1:21:50
So like it's impressive how they're able to maintain it
1:21:53
because of like the fact that it's not like say it's not a
1:21:55
huge up and having ten months to get in shape, they've got to
1:21:57
keep in shape whilst doing fucking, you know, 3 hours of
1:22:00
sleep. Yeah, that's why I love
1:22:02
professional wrestling. That's why I love professional
1:22:04
wrestlers, because of the dedication it takes to do it.
1:22:07
100%, yeah. I think it's, I think it's
1:22:09
really interesting. I thought it was quite a good
1:22:11
quote to kind of talk about that a bit more.
1:22:14
No, it certainly was. Is there any marks you want to
1:22:17
beat up Luke? Any marks I want to beat up?
1:22:20
No, because like I say, like it's just what normal people do,
1:22:22
isn't it? You're bordering on that
1:22:23
territory of The Man film and Dave Meltzer.
1:22:26
I don't like Dave Meltzer, agree with them, but I don't want to
1:22:28
fight them. It's not a normal behavior, is
1:22:30
it? Is there any box you want to be
1:22:32
up? No, I don't know if you got any
1:22:34
marks, but. No, actually, actually on a
1:22:36
different topic, there is one mark, but it's football related
1:22:39
that Geordie, Josh, like if he's listening to this, go fuck
1:22:42
yourself. He's a fucking idiot.
1:22:44
Is it? Didn't he like Pokémon now
1:22:45
though? It was a few.
1:22:46
Well, I think what? No, no, it's not.
1:22:49
I don't know what 1 the lads at work told his eyes in the
1:22:51
Pokémon and I was like, no, you're winding his up.
1:22:52
He was like, no, yes, he was like, you need to start your own
1:22:55
Pokémon. 1 And I was like, no, I'm not going to, but yeah,
1:22:58
because he was he did a video this week where he was
1:23:01
legitimately trying to say that he thinks Newcastle are in a
1:23:03
relegation battle. But we're getting off topic.
1:23:05
But answer your question. Yeah.
1:23:06
Is the remarketer like big? Oh yeah, Jordy, Josh, But it's
1:23:08
not wrestling related. So we'll, we'll, we'll park it.
1:23:11
Who do you hate the most? Jordy Joshua Meltzer.
1:23:15
Geordie, Josh. Geordie Josh had years of melta,
1:23:18
had years of some credibility, and you've got to respect what
1:23:21
he's done to an extent. Geordie, Josh, I respect nothing
1:23:24
about you. Nothing.
1:23:26
If I give you, you've got 2 doors in door number one, you
1:23:29
can run in and slap a ricochet on his bald head.
1:23:32
Or door #2 you wrote in and slap Geordie Josh, which door you're
1:23:36
picking. Geordie, Josh, because again,
1:23:39
there's there's the things which she has done that I can't not
1:23:41
respect. Indeed, Call Ricochet.
1:23:46
OK, I think that takes us on to our next segment, which is
1:23:48
cursed by the wrestling gods. This is where you look at a
1:23:51
gimmick, a person, a career. It could be a match or an event,
1:23:54
just something that didn't work out, something else with lots of
1:23:58
potential, but due to unforeseen circumstances or maybe actually
1:24:01
seen circumstances, you know, just sort of.
1:24:03
Peter, how can we argue whether they could have had a bigger
1:24:06
career than what they had? And you have picked this week's
1:24:09
curse by the wrestling gods. Luke, take it away.
1:24:11
I have, I have yes, I'll pick someone who definitely had
1:24:14
massive success, but it is more the question of this segment of
1:24:17
could it have been bigger? So this week I've gone for Raven
1:24:21
quote the Raven Nevermore. So a massive career, like when I
1:24:25
started looking at this a career parts that I didn't even know it
1:24:28
existed. So that was quite fun.
1:24:30
So yeah, we'll just kind of do what we normally do diving at
1:24:32
the beginning. So obviously Raven born Scotty
1:24:34
Levy in 1964. He's got a degree in criminal
1:24:37
justice. I thought that was quite
1:24:38
interesting to put in because he kind of was all about the
1:24:42
psychology. It wasn't he's like, he was
1:24:44
like, you know, he played mind games.
1:24:45
So I thought it's quite interesting that he actually
1:24:47
does have a degree in criminal justice.
1:24:49
He was trained by Larry Sharp at the Monster Factory.
1:24:51
So again, that's pretty well known.
1:24:53
Famous wrestling schools been some massive names come from
1:24:56
there. So you've got Bigelow, Big Show,
1:24:58
Matt Riddle, Sheamus, Tony Atlas, and if anyone hasn't seen
1:25:02
it, there's a really good documentary series on Apple TV
1:25:06
about the Monster Factory, so I'd recommend checking that out.
1:25:08
So again, kind of good pedigree in his training.
1:25:11
So into his wrestling career. He makes his debut on the 20th
1:25:14
of February 1988. Kind of early on when he's like
1:25:17
earning his chops, he wrestles in Puerto Rico for Carlos
1:25:20
Cologne as well as Memphis. He's known as Scotty the Body,
1:25:23
which very 80s wrestling name that isn't it.
1:25:26
Scotty the Body. It's the most 80s thing you can
1:25:28
get and I love it. Yeah, so soon over the before
1:25:31
you were Raven, you were Scotty the body.
1:25:33
At this time he makes a one off appearance on WF Superstars in
1:25:36
1990. He loses the court will be where
1:25:39
he then wrestles a lot down in Dallas.
1:25:41
He wins the Global Wrestling Federation Championship.
1:25:45
Thought this was cool to mention because he was also in a faction
1:25:47
in Dallas with Cactus Jack. So again, like didn't realize he
1:25:52
was that early on. Like kind of early kind of
1:25:54
stables with people like Mick Foley. 92.
1:25:57
This is again new for me. He was signed by WCW.
1:26:01
He was Scotty Flamingo so he was doing a surfer gimmick.
1:26:04
So I'm assuming Sting wasn't doing a surfer gimmick then?
1:26:08
If you had two surfer gimmicks, can 2 surfer gimmicks collide?
1:26:11
I don't know, but yeah. So that was 92 in two.
1:26:13
CW Raven wasn't a fan of this gimmick at all.
1:26:17
He wins the WCW Light Heavyweight Championship from
1:26:19
Brian Pillman. Did you know that?
1:26:21
I did not know. No.
1:26:23
And then after that, he's in the Diamond Mine stable with DBDDP
1:26:27
and Vinny Vegas, as in Kevin Nash.
1:26:31
I do remember that, I think, yes.
1:26:33
Yeah, so OK, yeah, can. I didn't realize he was in.
1:26:35
I mean, I know that wasn't a big stable in WCW, but yeah, for
1:26:39
games were pretty cool. I didn't realize he'd won gold
1:26:41
early on in WCW. February 93.
1:26:44
And this kind of becomes the reoccurring theme and maybe
1:26:47
he's, you know, could he have gone further?
1:26:48
He leaves WCW in February 93. This is after he has a lot of
1:26:52
disagreements with Bill Watts, who's the Booker at the time.
1:26:56
Signs with WE pretty quickly. He's used as a manager mainly.
1:26:59
He's Johnny Paulo. I do remember Johnny Paulo a lot
1:27:02
with Adam Bomb at first doesn't really go anywhere, but he then
1:27:05
has a pretty successful run as the manager of the Quebecers and
1:27:08
he leads them to three reigns as tag team championships.
1:27:12
During this time as a manager, he does have a few singles
1:27:14
matches, but he is predominantly used as a manager again as well
1:27:19
of that little run in WE. He also worked as colour
1:27:22
commentator and he was a Co host on radio at WWF.
1:27:26
So I think Raven, someone, I don't know if you agree with
1:27:29
this, who's someone who's obviously had a very successful
1:27:31
wrestling career, but there also seems to be like that great mind
1:27:34
for the business where wherever he goes, he gets these other
1:27:37
little side roles. Yeah, and I think if you go back
1:27:40
to so Punk's told stories where, you know, when Punk was working
1:27:43
in developmental and he was learning how to time television
1:27:47
shows and do production with the likes of Paul Heyman, for
1:27:49
example, you didn't have to do that, but he was there.
1:27:52
So you thought like, why not do it?
1:27:53
I'm interested. I'll learn how to do it.
1:27:55
I think Ravens, one of those guys who throughout his time in
1:27:58
the business, he's always like learned how to do, learned how
1:28:01
to do things and do do other things and use his brain to the
1:28:04
great effect. Yeah, definitely.
1:28:07
And that also leads to a point where there's a little stint
1:28:09
where like in 94, he's working behind the scenes as a producer
1:28:14
on Raw. So like this is some guy who's
1:28:17
kind of 198894. So he's like 6 years into his
1:28:19
career and he's kind of doing some backstage producing.
1:28:22
So again, that kind of shows you early on there was obviously a
1:28:24
mind there because you know, Vince isn't letting you into
1:28:27
that in a circle if you haven't. Definitely agreed, and obviously
1:28:32
there's a bit where there's a reason why Vince falls out with
1:28:34
him, right? Yeah, so that's he leaves in
1:28:36
October of 94. So why do you think Vince fell
1:28:38
out with him? So know that young Shane's
1:28:41
obviously backstage and working. Do we?
1:28:43
Do we have at the time as well? Obviously Raven and Shane become
1:28:47
friends. From I can gather into it I
1:28:50
think Vince thinks Ravens maybe Sean, Shane some bad things,
1:28:55
maybe partying too much. I think Raven Party would have
1:28:57
been one the original ministry posse had not been fired.
1:29:01
Yeah. Do you reckon, has that been
1:29:02
said before? Was it?
1:29:03
I think that probably could have happened.
1:29:06
Yeah, definitely. But yeah, that's exactly kind of
1:29:08
one of the reasons alluded to that like Vince did not like
1:29:12
Shane hanging out with Raven too much party and that type of
1:29:14
thing. So he leaves W in October 94
1:29:16
like so much sort of a point that apparently when Raven does
1:29:19
eventually end back up in W, which we'll talk about, Vince
1:29:21
actually says who the fuck rehired Johnny Polo.
1:29:24
So again, not not great when he starting by the company.
1:29:28
So but yeah, still in 94 here where he leaves WWE signs with
1:29:32
ECW during this kind of time off, he's created the Raven
1:29:35
gimmick. He describes it as a mix of the
1:29:38
Edgar Allan poem, which probably isn't that far of a leap, but
1:29:41
also Patrick Swayze's character on point break this kind of like
1:29:44
mind controlling kind of, you know, psychological mind games.
1:29:48
Did you know that about the Swayze influence?
1:29:50
I have heard him say that, yeah. Yeah, and he's bulked up a lot
1:29:53
as well. And he's kind of gone away with
1:29:54
this kind of preppy Johnny Polo look.
1:29:56
And he's very much embraced the grunge of the times.
1:29:59
Your leather jackets, you cut off jeans, your band T-shirts.
1:30:02
So he's introduced in ECW in late 94 by Stevie Richards,
1:30:06
who's someone who kind of works alongside him throughout his
1:30:08
career. He goes straight into what will
1:30:11
be a lengthy and legendary feud with Tommy Dreamer.
1:30:14
He forms the stable Raven's Nest.
1:30:16
So it's important to get the names right.
1:30:18
So in ECW is stable is Raven's Nest.
1:30:22
There's a lot of members in and out of that, but Stevie Richards
1:30:25
is kind of the main one who kind of remains through majority of
1:30:27
it. Feuds with Dreamer, obviously a
1:30:30
big feud is the one where he says that him and Dreamer were
1:30:33
friends at summer camp. He's had a girlfriend, Beulah
1:30:36
Mcgillicutty, and they both hate Dreamer.
1:30:38
So Beulah Mcgillicutty's brought in.
1:30:40
And again, this is kind of when you look at the history of ECW,
1:30:44
the Raven and Dreamer feuds, one of those ones that's kind of the
1:30:46
greatest of all time. Raven and Richards defeat the
1:30:49
Public Enemy. They win the ECW tag belts at
1:30:52
Mountaintop Madness. That's a great name for a
1:30:54
pay-per-view. And while this is all going on,
1:30:57
I say it's still feuding with Dreamer.
1:30:58
At one point he handcuffs Dreamer and he gives him a
1:31:01
headshot with his chair, which is kind of widely known in the
1:31:05
rest of the circle as the chair shot known around the world.
1:31:08
It's kind of an early viral moment, I would say, from what
1:31:11
I've read into is can you, can you picture that chair shot to
1:31:13
Dreamer's head while he's handcuffed?
1:31:14
I can, yes. It's very almost like at the
1:31:20
time, like it was almost like you shouldn't be maybe watching
1:31:23
this. Yeah, we can't get your hands
1:31:25
up. Protect yourself, can you?
1:31:26
And the handcuffed. So, yeah, well, it's lethal.
1:31:28
And I've watched it a few times this week.
1:31:31
Loses the tag titles and regains them blue.
1:31:33
Meanie joins the group, finds out that Beulah is pregnant.
1:31:37
But it's not Ravens, it's Tommy's.
1:31:39
So again, just continuing this yeah, just lovely kind of
1:31:43
wrestling soap opera kind storylines, but in a hardcore
1:31:46
setting of which I'm a big fan of.
1:31:48
Then he gets his big moment. So January 27th, 96, he beats
1:31:51
Sandman for the ECW World Champion.
1:31:54
So he wins his first world championship.
1:31:56
Again, has a decent run with this, defends it against people
1:31:59
like Chris Jericho, Shane Douglas, Too cool, Scorpio.
1:32:02
But again, it's kind of Sandman who comes back round into this.
1:32:05
And again, I know that kind of famous feud is him and the
1:32:08
Sandman. So Raven brainwashes Sandman's
1:32:11
ex-wife and child, starts bringing them to the ring, plays
1:32:14
mind games with them at least to an infamous, another infamous
1:32:18
moment on October 2696 where Raven and his well Raven's nest,
1:32:24
they crucify the Sandman, which is a kind of massively
1:32:27
controversial moment for lots of reasons.
1:32:29
It delayed ECW getting a pay-per-view deal, and he also
1:32:34
had a young Kurt Angle in attendance that night.
1:32:36
He was thinking of maybe doing some work with ECW, but
1:32:39
essentially went to Paul Heyman and said if my name's anywhere
1:32:41
over this, I'll fucking sue you. So again, controversial moment.
1:32:46
He loses the title, but not by getting pinned himself.
1:32:49
Richards defends it for him against the Sandman.
1:32:52
He then retains it back off Sandman.
1:32:55
Stevie and Blue Meanie leave the group and they form the BWO.
1:33:00
He defends the title against Dota Death and he wins.
1:33:02
And apparently that was the first loss that Dota Death had
1:33:05
had in the US in 10 years. So like when he does have what
1:33:07
he does, win the championships in ECW completely, the World
1:33:10
Championship, He has long runs where he has feuds, he has
1:33:12
matches, and there's a lot of good stuff in there.
1:33:15
He then drops the belt to the legendary Terry Funk.
1:33:17
And on June 6th, 97, he loses again.
1:33:20
A dream. He loses to Dreamer in a loser
1:33:22
leaves ACW match and that's his time in ACW tied up.
1:33:26
So obviously I say that was in 97.
1:33:29
So he's leaving ACW. Where do you think he's going to
1:33:31
pop up? WCW.
1:33:33
WCW, bro, that's where they were throwing the money at.
1:33:35
So Raven joins WCW in June 97. There's kind of a lot of weeks
1:33:40
where he's just kind of sitting in the front row.
1:33:41
It's kind of billed as a free agent, and the commentary team
1:33:45
described him a lot as a man who has held championships in other
1:33:48
organizations. While he's sitting in the front
1:33:51
row, he slowly but surely forms his new stable.
1:33:54
This time it's the Flock. So we've had the nest.
1:33:57
We've now got the Flock. JJ Dillon offers him a contract
1:34:00
in K Fab on TV. He accepts it, but it's part of
1:34:03
the contract. He can wrestle when he wants and
1:34:06
with his rules. So this leads to him having a
1:34:08
Ravens rules stipulation, which is essentially just a hardcore
1:34:12
match, but quite decent reduction in WCW, wasn't it
1:34:16
really Like you're getting the kind of mysterious, you know,
1:34:19
almost like the outsiders sitting in the crowd and then
1:34:22
you get you kind of name your own stipulations.
1:34:24
Like it looks like it's a pretty good start, doesn't it in WCW?
1:34:27
It's fantastic. Sorry, he has been tracked the
1:34:29
same as National, definitely. Yeah.
1:34:31
And last, I mean, they've said, you know, he's been he's
1:34:33
champion in other organizations, but they have, you know, they've
1:34:35
signed like one of the greatest CCW champions in my opinion,
1:34:39
like especially of that era. So like, yeah, he's brought him
1:34:42
a big deal. He wins the US title from DDP
1:34:45
but drops it the next night at Goldberg.
1:34:47
So very, very short lived US title run.
1:34:50
Then it's when it kind of starts to fall off a bit WCW.
1:34:52
So the Flock disbands a lot of infighting within it.
1:34:56
He kind of disappears from TV for a while when he does return
1:34:59
to do give him some vignettes where he's kind of sure he had a
1:35:02
preppy upbringing, but nothing really comes from that.
1:35:05
And then he just sends up kind of reforming A tag team of Perry
1:35:08
Satin where they do win the tag titles, but the end of dropping
1:35:11
it to the jersey tirade. Then the back end of the WCW
1:35:15
career. He has a short lived stable with
1:35:17
Vampiro and our good friends those juggalos the Insane Clown
1:35:21
Posse's called the Deadpool can use that is out there for you.
1:35:24
Is one of your favorite factions the Deadpool?
1:35:26
It was Vampiro. I've not seen laughing.
1:35:30
I can't remember any of that, like the the Deadpool, but yeah.
1:35:33
So I've watched some stuff since and yeah, it was very kind of
1:35:35
like, yeah, yeah, the wheels have come off any series WCW
1:35:39
push, if this is what you're doing.
1:35:40
So that's kind of leads to August 99, where there's a big
1:35:44
backstage meeting in WCW where Bischoff offers to release
1:35:47
anyone who wants out with a contract.
1:35:50
Raven's the only one who says, yeah, I'll take that.
1:35:52
So he's gone from WCW. But although he was offered his
1:35:55
release, there was a clause that says he couldn't sign for WWE,
1:35:59
so many people believe he then goes back to ACW where it was
1:36:03
agreed that he'd only be there a year before WWE would sign him.
1:36:06
So he has a year back in ACW where it's kind of and down
1:36:09
again wins tag team titles, this time with Dreamer to take them
1:36:13
off of departing Dudley Boys who are going to WWE.
1:36:16
They drop the belts. He fused with Dreamer again,
1:36:19
wins the tag team titles with Mike Awesome.
1:36:21
And then his final match is a world title match against the
1:36:23
champion Rhino, which he loses. So it's kind of like it's almost
1:36:26
like a gap year if you read into it, where WWE would have signed
1:36:30
them straight away. But is WCW contract release
1:36:33
stated that he couldn't. So I think kind of Paul him and
1:36:36
did them a solid and kept them on TV for a year and ACW but
1:36:39
never wins the world title or anything like that.
1:36:40
So I think he was just kind of you scratch my back, I'll
1:36:43
scratch yours. So there's big WWE kind of
1:36:47
debut. If you think the water sign of a
1:36:48
year ago. Not the greatest of debuts.
1:36:50
Yeah Debuts by helping Taz beat Jerry Lawler and then go
1:36:54
straight into a feud with Jerry Lawler.
1:36:56
So if we look at ECW debut, WCW debut, WE debut.
1:37:02
Do you think this is the worst one I.
1:37:04
Don't know because I think at the time, I feel like at this
1:37:07
time in wrestling, Jerry Lawler and Jim Ross are like over as
1:37:10
hell with like the wrestling world, right?
1:37:14
I think to a point, but I think it puts you in, you know, you
1:37:17
can always bring a glass ceiling, but I think it puts you
1:37:19
in a certain position straight away.
1:37:21
Like, I know what you mean, the word massive.
1:37:24
But I think, yeah, I think if you've got this guy who you've,
1:37:26
you know, reportedly wanted to sign a year ago and this is how
1:37:30
you bring them in, But then did they really want to sign them a
1:37:32
year ago? If Vince says who the folks
1:37:34
resigned, Johnny Polo? Well.
1:37:35
Indeed, indeed. So yeah, so I say that's the
1:37:38
kind of back in the 2000 fused with Lola.
1:37:40
He then beats Blackmun for the Hardcore Title and Raven is
1:37:43
actually the record holder of having the Hardcore Title 39
1:37:46
times. Biggest moment arguably then
1:37:49
comes at WrestleMania 70. Anyway, he's involved in a
1:37:51
Hardcore Title triple threat match with Kane and the Big
1:37:54
Show. Really fun match.
1:37:55
What's your kind of memories of that one?
1:37:58
Yeah, I remember just being being really fun in like really
1:38:00
chaotic, but like not in a not in A2 violent way, but more on
1:38:04
just like a fun way. Yeah, it wasn't it was kind of a
1:38:07
lot of backstage to if they want a golf cart, Raven goes to a
1:38:09
full glass window. And I think that's kind of that
1:38:11
is pretty cool that he managed to get himself in that triple
1:38:14
threat of WrestleMania, like with two kind of two of the
1:38:16
biggest names and the history of the business really, in my
1:38:19
opinion. So then after that, there's
1:38:21
touched on this last week. He's kind of batten the hardcore
1:38:23
division. He has a ninja help him for a
1:38:25
bit and then the invasion happens.
1:38:29
So obviously kind of makes perfect sense that he's on team
1:38:32
ACW now for me. You think really he should have?
1:38:35
Do you think he should have been one of the kind of figureheads
1:38:37
of that an ECW invasion? You would probably think so
1:38:41
because you probably say he sort of, he infiltrated to me first,
1:38:45
right? So you could have used that in
1:38:46
the storyline. Yeah, I think it's a missed
1:38:49
opportunity, but he does like absolutely next to nothing
1:38:52
during the invasion. The only kind of real feud he
1:38:55
has during it is the comedy angle where it's Perry Satin and
1:38:59
Moby where Raven causes Perry Satin to have a bit of brain
1:39:03
damage and then Perry Satin falls in love with a mop called
1:39:06
Moby and then Raven throws it in a wood chipper.
1:39:11
Think yeah, attitude that isn't it.
1:39:14
That's what happened. That's when that's the rest
1:39:16
that's on the telly when like your wife walks in and it goes
1:39:18
what you're watching. Actually, what if this isn't it
1:39:20
That that's? Perry Saturn's taking him up out
1:39:23
on a date. So yeah, that's kind of the only
1:39:25
thing he does during the invasion.
1:39:26
Which like when you think of like ACW, like I've said, like
1:39:30
his feud with Dreamer and Sandman are like ask any die
1:39:33
hard ACW fan, they'll probably put in that those two feuds in.
1:39:36
There's kind of what made that company the kind of cult success
1:39:39
it was. So yeah, that save Invasion ends
1:39:41
and then 2002 they have the first brand split.
1:39:44
He beats Maven on the night of the brand split to win the
1:39:47
hardcore title. So the hardcore title goes to
1:39:49
raw, but he then drops it immediately the week after a
1:39:52
bubble rate Dudley. So it kind of seems that like he
1:39:54
was just put on them so that they had a raw drafted superstar
1:39:58
with the belt to start doing a bit announcing again on Heat.
1:40:01
He loses a loser, leaves Rawatch where he then is banished to
1:40:06
heat for a year. What?
1:40:08
What do you think the thing behind that was like doing it
1:40:11
doing an angle where someone's banished the heat?
1:40:13
So not just like Vince messing with them.
1:40:17
Yeah, I think that's what it's not good.
1:40:19
Is this like, because it's it's like you've been told you're not
1:40:22
getting put on the main shows for a year?
1:40:24
Yeah, I feel like what are the company get all that maybe.
1:40:27
Obviously on Heat you've probably got like lesser stars,
1:40:29
so you put Raven on that show with them.
1:40:32
Some of that, you know, talent learn from Raven.
1:40:34
Some cool things maybe, but it does also tie that like they see
1:40:38
no value with Raven being on Raw or Smackdown.
1:40:41
Yeah, so the writing's kind of on the wall.
1:40:43
And then on January 20th, 2003, the date's important.
1:40:47
He's released from his WWE contract.
1:40:49
So again, January the 20th, 2003.
1:40:51
Reason it's important is because on January the 22nd, 2003, he
1:40:56
makes a massive surprise debut at TNA.
1:41:00
Can you remember that? I can see pictures of him like
1:41:04
there but I can't remember the details.
1:41:06
Because I what I remember it because it was 2003.
1:41:09
Yes, it was back obviously, like when you were on the Internet
1:41:11
and obviously I'd watched raw it like knew he'd like lost this
1:41:15
loser leaves raw match. And then I remember seeing a
1:41:16
photo a couple of days later. It's Raven and it's kind of
1:41:19
classic pause sat in the corner or like and there's someone like
1:41:23
holds up a holding up a sign saying Vince Fee has Raven and
1:41:26
it was like, well, fucking hell, like he was under it.
1:41:28
Do I mean, it's it's one of those moments where it's like I
1:41:31
try to look into it, but I don't I don't get how he was able to
1:41:34
do that, that I wonder why there was no why he got over no
1:41:38
compete clause. Would there been a thing then in
1:41:41
doing contracts? I feel like much I'm not like
1:41:44
Vincent bought the competition, right.
1:41:46
The competition was WCW. So I don't think they saw TNA
1:41:50
like at the time as a thing. I don't think it will not bother
1:41:52
about no compete causes at the time.
1:41:55
And if you didn't see any value in real, why would we even have
1:41:58
one? Like I can see which might have
1:42:00
one, but I do what I mean. But yeah, but I remember being
1:42:04
like a cool bit of a like a throwback to the kind of the
1:42:07
Monday night was obviously not as big, but like it was still
1:42:10
pretty cool thing. Like just I remember seeing that
1:42:11
picture thing and awful and hell, that's quite cool.
1:42:13
Like especially with someone who's done nothing and then you
1:42:15
think, all right, this is where he's going to kick on.
1:42:17
And to be honest, he does. He has like a decent kind of run
1:42:20
in TNA. So kind of when he first kind of
1:42:22
goes in there, obviously starts a new stable this time.
1:42:25
So we've had the nest, we've had the flock, now we've got the
1:42:27
Gathering. This The Gathering at some point
1:42:30
has a very young CM Punk in it. So again, nice little tidbit
1:42:33
there. He has a lot of kind of leans
1:42:35
into the hardcore pass. So he has monster ball matches,
1:42:38
Clockwork Orange matches, things like that.
1:42:40
He does finally win the world title in 2005 by beating AJ
1:42:44
Styles Abyss, Sean Waltman and Monty Brown in a King of the
1:42:48
Mountain match. Drops the belt back to Double J.
1:42:51
He's in kind of in and out with TNA.
1:42:52
A lot of times he brought back in with TNA kind of use a lot of
1:42:55
the old ACW guys again, goes back to our buddies, the
1:42:58
Juggalos, wrestles for them. And then in September 2002, he's
1:43:02
inducted into the TNA Hall of Fame by Tommy Dreamer.
1:43:06
And that's kind of like the last big thing that happened in his
1:43:09
wrestling career if you look into it.
1:43:11
He said himself he's semi retired, but he has obviously
1:43:15
been diagnosed with early onset Parkinson's and he has troubled
1:43:19
in the past with type 2 diabetes.
1:43:20
So you'd probably think that's kind of it, unless it's some
1:43:24
kind of dirtbag Indy show, but that's kind of his career in a
1:43:28
nutshell. What's your thoughts on Raven
1:43:30
overall after revisiting some of that?
1:43:32
So yeah, I think, you know, he's a guy who he transcended
1:43:36
companies and eras, you know, he moves from, you know, he's not
1:43:41
he's 2000s in the wrestling business.
1:43:44
I think he was somebody who he definitely had fans and has fans
1:43:48
now. I think, you know, any wrestling
1:43:51
man knows Ravens flock. You know, it's had different
1:43:53
names, as you pointed out, like people know of none of them as
1:43:55
having the flock these guys with him who manipulate and have as
1:43:58
his team in his stables. And I think that's even known
1:44:02
today. I think if you think about Raven
1:44:07
in the flock storyline in him and this band of misfit 2, but
1:44:12
it's it's similar to sort of the wide 6.
1:44:15
I mean, it's a bit less gruesome, don't get wrong, but
1:44:17
it's you can see where maybe wide 6 is like pulled the idea
1:44:20
from like having this guy who relates people and has the
1:44:24
misfits team with him. I think, you know, I think in
1:44:31
WWE, I'm not saying he will be a world champion, but like could
1:44:34
he have been an intercontinental champion, had it for a long time
1:44:37
and being sort of have the flock help him do that?
1:44:40
Like maybe, but obviously they never used him in that way,
1:44:45
maybe because of his first time with the company where he was
1:44:49
obviously very good friends with Shane Mcmann.
1:44:50
He's obviously released because of it.
1:44:52
And then does she never bought from again?
1:44:54
I don't know. Apparently not apparently Shane
1:44:57
Hardy sport or money returned cordon that's that's comments
1:45:00
from Raven that that's so yeah, apparently not so maybe Shane
1:45:03
maybe Shane had been warned. But yeah, I think you write you
1:45:06
someone who like let's say like when in the WCW Cruiser, which I
1:45:10
mentioned, but 92, I think it was like I never do that.
1:45:12
So that, you know, transcended generations and the three
1:45:16
biggest, you know, three, you know, put here any I mean this
1:45:19
4/4 of the biggest companies in the history of wrestling.
1:45:21
Isn't it really like those four? So, yeah, I think it's it's a
1:45:26
shame because you've said like, you know, the Flock was
1:45:28
excellent. And I think it's an interesting
1:45:30
one because a lot of people think he's kind of like, again,
1:45:33
eventually Jericho on his day, who could do one of the one of
1:45:35
the best promos in the business, like one of the best kind of
1:45:38
people for psychology in the business.
1:45:40
And I think the flock, the gather in the nest, whatever
1:45:42
shows that. Because what he's done there is
1:45:44
he's looked at the current world and it's grunge and it's kind of
1:45:48
misfits and it's Marilyn Manson. And, and he's then used that to
1:45:53
then create something really fucking good.
1:45:55
And there's loads of examples in wrestling where they've gone,
1:45:58
right? What's hot, what's now, what's
1:45:59
modern, let's do that. And it's fucking embarrassing.
1:46:01
Whereas Raven was like, right, this is what's hot.
1:46:03
But I'm going to put my own take on it.
1:46:05
And I think you really did. Definitely.
1:46:08
And then did you see when the TNA world title in 2005?
1:46:12
Yeah, and like I said, I mean wins that in a match with AJ
1:46:14
Styles and the best Waltman and Monte Brown.
1:46:16
So I mean, it's a big match and the King of the Mountain match
1:46:18
was one of was like there key kind of gimmick matches for a
1:46:22
while, wasn't it? Yeah, so I'm all right thing at
1:46:24
that time, the TNA world title would have actually been the
1:46:26
N.W.A. World N.W.A, Yeah.
1:46:28
So it was N.W.A world champion. Yeah, absolutely right.
1:46:30
So he's won that world title, about the same bell held by the
1:46:34
greatest world champions. Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Matt
1:46:38
Cardona, they've all held the 15 lbs.
1:46:41
Of gold. Haven't.
1:46:42
They have, yeah. So like I said, I mean, like,
1:46:44
it's definitely not, you know, it's definitely not a case where
1:46:47
his whole career is like what could have been because that
1:46:49
says ECW run in particular, like it's it's legendary, really.
1:46:53
Like say, ask any hardware CW fan.
1:46:55
I don't think that necessarily disagree with you on that.
1:46:57
I think it's just the biggest one of kind of like by the time
1:47:00
you got a WWE, like, do you think it purely was just
1:47:03
politics that held him back or do you think kind of the world
1:47:06
had moved on a bit? About the world moving on in
1:47:09
politics, definitely. I think I think maybe because he
1:47:13
was with the world, but because media is usually just behind the
1:47:17
world. So I could imagine, I could
1:47:21
imagine like wrestling companies not understanding like Marilyn
1:47:24
Manson are not understanding, like the Seattle music scene and
1:47:27
the grunge that was coming like until after it already hit.
1:47:30
That made sense. So it seems like Raven was maybe
1:47:33
a bit ahead of the curve along with those acts who have just
1:47:35
said and then before you know it it's too late, if that makes
1:47:39
sense. Yeah.
1:47:41
And I think he had an authenticity to it, which kind
1:47:44
of goes back when he was paying, like playing like, you know,
1:47:46
Johnny Paul on a surfer and WCW. And he didn't like it.
1:47:49
That obviously wasn't him. Whereas, like, I think maybe one
1:47:52
of the reasons why he was able to tap into the grunge and that
1:47:54
kind of whole movement was that obviously probably resonated
1:47:57
with him. And I think he didn't look like
1:47:59
someone cosplaying in a band T-shirt.
1:48:01
It looked authentic. Yeah, definitely.
1:48:05
And then one place where that type of thing does work, where
1:48:07
they do get it, ECW. It worked a charm, right?
1:48:10
Yeah, yeah. And like I say, I think when we
1:48:12
talk about this kind of the segment, the WCW run, I think
1:48:15
there's probably just unlucky because of, you know, WCW was a
1:48:18
shit show. Yeah, like if you think about
1:48:22
it, WCW like Raven struggle to get over there or not get over,
1:48:27
but struggle to do meaningful stuff every week.
1:48:30
I would say like so did Chris Jargo sort of Booker team, sort
1:48:34
of Crisper Moore like, you know, I mean, because the way it was
1:48:37
booked, right? Yeah, even though I bet there
1:48:40
wasn't, it was never any, never ever in doubt.
1:48:42
I would love to see a situation where someone goes up the
1:48:45
Goldberg and tells him he's losing a Raven.
1:48:48
I mean, yeah, yeah. So lose.
1:48:52
Lose his shit. That Goldberg would have a lot
1:48:54
of opinions on why that isn't happening.
1:48:56
Yeah, but he would 100%. But yeah, I think he's someone
1:49:00
he wasn't. He was someone like when?
1:49:02
Because I didn't really get any proper kind of reduction to him
1:49:06
till he debuted in WWE because of kind of my age and things
1:49:09
like that. And like even when he debuted in
1:49:10
WWE, even it wasn't great because of his luck.
1:49:12
It ticked all the boxes for me. Like I say, the fucking cough
1:49:15
jeans, the bandagia. It's essentially how I fucking
1:49:17
dress now. And like I did laugh.
1:49:19
I like I thought this is these fucking cool him and I didn't
1:49:21
really know anything about like his really successful past and
1:49:25
again, kind of as always, sometimes bring this back.
1:49:27
Figures. I remember you only ever got one
1:49:28
released by Jax and to his ages to hunt down.
1:49:31
But I did finally find it at Jackie White's market in
1:49:34
Sunderland. Jackie White.
1:49:36
Hey, anybody who Nas Jackie White's Market, they've got an
1:49:39
awesome shop there called The Retro Room where you can get
1:49:41
wrestlers and all sorts. Oh, did that.
1:49:43
Was there on Saturday. I didn't know that was there was
1:49:45
at the Bridges. I go Jackie White and find the
1:49:48
retro room. I'll have to check it out.
1:49:51
Yeah, overall, I think it's someone who is like, without a
1:49:54
shadow of a doubt, an absolute legend of the business and
1:49:57
sometimes use this as a verometer.
1:49:58
Like if I was a, you know, a wrestle con, I would definitely
1:50:01
pay money to get a four with him.
1:50:03
And I'd love to go. I'd love to do AQ and a with him
1:50:05
as well. Because like I say, he's
1:50:06
obviously someone who's got a great mind for the business.
1:50:08
And I just run out of time this week.
1:50:10
But there's a he's released a documentary last year in the
1:50:14
full documentaries up on YouTube, so that's on me list.
1:50:17
They will get watched in the next couple of weeks as well
1:50:19
because I do find him really interested and I really enjoy
1:50:22
kind of a lot of his career. Yeah.
1:50:24
And then something this isn't necessarily really certainly
1:50:27
part of this and mentioned, but so Brian Myers obviously
1:50:31
formerly caught Kurt Hawkins and WWE Brian Myers of the system
1:50:35
who's currently TNA tagging champions.
1:50:37
I believe he did like it's a six episode mini podcast called
1:50:40
Extreme Conversations and it's about because he's Brian Myers
1:50:44
loves CCW and it's 6 episodes where they talk about ECW and
1:50:49
it's fantastic. Definitely check that out.
1:50:51
I think it was like 2020-2021 when it came out, but only 6
1:50:55
episodes. They're all there.
1:50:56
I enjoyed it at the time. So definitely check that out if
1:50:59
you want some ECW content. Yeah, I'll have to put that.
1:51:02
I'm honest. And as well, I said at the start
1:51:03
there the Monster Factory documentary on Apple TV, that's
1:51:06
brilliant as well. Definitely.
1:51:08
Well, look, I think that brings us to the pro wrestling feel
1:51:12
good fuck of the week. Yeah, so I've gone with just a
1:51:15
bit of an easy one. This week has been AW Dynasty
1:51:17
this week and Kyle Fletcher, Kyle Fletcher, Kyle O'Reilly
1:51:22
made his return back to the company where I thought this was
1:51:25
a nice little feel good moment as he won the trios championship
1:51:27
with his good friend Roderick Strong.
1:51:30
Unfortunately, Orange Cassidy was there as well.
1:51:32
But he's someone who's had a kind of a rough ride with neck
1:51:34
injuries and his father passed away recently and they kind of
1:51:37
let him have a little moment in the ring where he did his kind
1:51:39
of Hogan guitar strumming on the belt and he could see kind of
1:51:43
what it meant. It was in his hometown.
1:51:45
It's just nice for stories like that.
1:51:46
I think he's the one who comes across as kind of one of
1:51:48
wrestling's good guys. And I really like that kind of
1:51:51
back end of the Undisputed Era where he got a couple of months
1:51:53
run as a singles competitor in NXT.
1:51:56
And he's one of those guys who like if he's doing something,
1:51:58
I'll watch him. I'm a big fan of him and I think
1:52:00
he's someone who kind of people don't really talk about a lot,
1:52:03
but I think he's really solid and he every time I've ever seen
1:52:06
him do anything, he adds to the product.
1:52:09
Definitely, yeah. I mean, I love doing the
1:52:11
industry era. I thought it was fantastic.
1:52:13
He was kind of like the breakout star, wasn't he?
1:52:16
Because obviously Adam Cole was the leader, but he was in the
1:52:18
background kind of stealing the scene every time.
1:52:20
No, he was having great matches, everybody you work with and then
1:52:22
yeah, so I think it's great. Obviously been through some
1:52:24
tough times recently, but he's there's a great wrestler in
1:52:27
there and I think, you know, it's great to see him.
1:52:30
I've listened to him on podcast where like essentially he's
1:52:33
Canadian. So you wrestled in the US like
1:52:36
illegally 4 times, you couldn't get a visa And like obviously
1:52:39
he's also type 1 diabetic I think.
1:52:40
So he's able to pro wrestle while having those sort of blood
1:52:44
sugar issues. I think also shows how committee
1:52:47
is. Yeah, it goes by the dedication
1:52:49
we're talking about, doesn't it? And yeah, it's just nice when
1:52:51
you see people come back. And he had that little, that
1:52:53
moment in his hometown, and that's how a big fan of him.
1:52:57
Hopefully there's a time in the future where Adam Cole comes
1:52:59
back and we get all three in the band back together.
1:53:02
Yeah, because Bobby Fish is blacklisted, isn't He's being
1:53:04
naughty or something, hasn't he? I know he's not there.
1:53:07
I don't know. I've heard that he could be, but
1:53:08
I don't know what it is. So if you if you know why
1:53:10
Bugfish isn't in AW, please let us know in the comments.
1:53:14
I've got him on Instagram and he kind of puts videos on where
1:53:17
it's like bordering on like Russell Brand level grifter
1:53:20
stuff. So I do worry about him.
1:53:22
I do worry. Yes.
1:53:26
Not a feel good facts. That's for us by Kyle.
1:53:28
Yeah. Brilliant.
1:53:28
Kyle. Will.
1:53:29
Kyle won the trio's championship.
1:53:30
He's had a hard time. Lovely.
1:53:33
And where do you think it goes for this?
1:53:34
Obviously him and Roddy Strong have great chemistry so
1:53:36
hopefully keep those two together.
1:53:38
Yeah, I mean, the room, I was the one actually meant to win
1:53:40
the belt because that was the match we gave.
1:53:42
Kid got injured. So yeah, we'll see.
1:53:44
I don't know where it goes because that's one of the things
1:53:47
I do struggle sometimes with. AW, they'll put the belt on them
1:53:49
this week, but they could drop them tonight.
1:53:52
So we'll see. We'll see, but hopefully it's
1:53:54
positive. Hopefully indeed Luke.
1:53:57
Any closing thoughts for the fans out there who are
1:53:59
listening? Just I hope everyone has a
1:54:02
lovely Wrestle Mania week. It's still special to me.
1:54:04
I'm excited for it. I've managed to get Monday off
1:54:07
work so I can watch the Sunday night show because I've got a 15
1:54:11
month chat 15 month old child and I can't stay up late
1:54:13
anymore. So I'll be watching both of them
1:54:16
at about 6 O clock in the morning.
1:54:17
I reckon that about the time when I get up with Blake.
1:54:21
Sounds like a great thing. Stay off the social media so you
1:54:23
don't get spoiled buddy. 04 will be getting left upstairs.
1:54:26
Left upstairs. Good.
1:54:29
Yeah, obviously if you listen to this podcast, if you listen on
1:54:31
Spotify, please leave us a five star review.
1:54:34
It helps people find the show and it keeps me and Luke loving
1:54:37
wrestling even more. If you're listening on Apple
1:54:39
Podcasts, you can leave a five star review and you can also
1:54:42
leave a little sentence about why you love the show, which
1:54:44
would be great. You can, of course, follow us on
1:54:46
Instagram at SAS Wrestling Pod. Again, follow us on there,
1:54:52
comment on our posts. You can see what we're doing.
1:54:54
You can get your comments and questions into the housekeeping
1:54:57
section of the show. And again, if you're listening
1:54:58
this on Spotify, leave a comment on the episode, take a part in
1:55:04
our pool and yeah, get a part of the show.
1:55:08
Actually I've just realized like we didn't go over the pool in
1:55:12
housekeeping device. Well, there was a pool.
1:55:15
Or a pool Or a pool how you want to see it?
1:55:18
Would you like to know what the pool was?
1:55:21
I would because this it's on Spotify.
1:55:22
Isn't it the pool and I don't do Spotify.
1:55:24
I should you need to I let us start.
1:55:25
Let us know what they are and also I'll know in advance what
1:55:28
was the pool. I like, I like, I like tricking
1:55:30
you though. I like, I like that and you
1:55:32
know, like on the spot. So I'm.
1:55:35
Enough, I'll stay in the dark. Stay in the dark.
1:55:38
I get back in the closet. A shirt lifter.
1:55:43
No, we love. We love shirt lifters, by the
1:55:45
way, We love everybody. So we are looking for the pool.
1:55:48
I'm just pulling it up now. What's to do with Pat McAfee?
1:55:50
I know that. Yeah.
1:55:52
So just a quick one as we wrap things up.
1:55:54
It was, will Pat McAfee save wrestling?
1:55:57
There was option for yes, an option for no, and 100% of
1:56:00
voters said no. Well, I was going to put it in
1:56:04
me negatives because it's just I don't like we've taught, but I
1:56:08
didn't bring it up because but we'll do it now books with it's
1:56:11
being done to death and it's obviously such a hot topic in
1:56:13
the wrestling world, but I feel like it's done at death where,
1:56:16
like for me, the reveal should have been done at WrestleMania
1:56:19
the other night after WrestleMania and you start saw
1:56:21
it properly then, because Pat Murphy, I think is fucking
1:56:24
brilliant, actually, like I think I think, like on the mic,
1:56:28
it was excellent, like fucking calling Cody and elite runners.
1:56:31
It was an elite runaway artist and referring to fucking Nick
1:56:35
Aldous is foreign Adam. PS Like, I think he's really,
1:56:38
really good, but it just wasn't needed.
1:56:41
Like in the build up to WrestleMania.
1:56:43
I said I would have been absolutely fine if it happened,
1:56:45
even if it happened during the match at Mania or the first
1:56:47
Smackdown after. But yeah, it's just it's it's
1:56:51
it's confusing, I think is the kind of most positive way I can
1:56:55
describe the involvement of him. He's good, but I don't know why
1:56:58
he's there. Yeah, it's not his fault.
1:57:01
I almost think like, maybe I'm going too far so tells if I am.
1:57:06
But like, you know, you have David Arquette, who's a he loves
1:57:10
wrestling, right? And then he goes to WCW and then
1:57:13
like the WCW make him the world champion and then wrestling fans
1:57:16
hate him. But it's not his fault.
1:57:19
And I feel this is like, yeah, like, we've got this awesome
1:57:21
storyline between Cody Rhodes and Orton that writes itself on
1:57:25
like 10 years of storyline. More than that, you know, 15
1:57:29
years of storyline. And then somebody, somebody's
1:57:32
inserted this guy in right now before me and you.
1:57:35
And people are shitting all over because it's like it wasn't
1:57:37
needed. But it's he's just doing what
1:57:39
he's told right by his bosses. So it's not his fault.
1:57:42
He is good and he loves wrestling.
1:57:43
But now he's put himself in a situation where he could become
1:57:47
headed just like David Arquette. Yeah, I think the Arquette thing
1:57:51
is not a bad shout because like you see, yeah, he's he's
1:57:53
everything he's done. He's done with passion going
1:57:55
back to Adam Cole and NXT, that is for it's, I think I might
1:57:58
mention last week, but the kind of gimmick he did in NXT where
1:58:02
he was up against the Undisputed year, right.
1:58:03
It's kind of similar to this like like his torn and like how
1:58:08
he hits indie wrestlers and that type of thing.
1:58:10
So yeah, but it's just confusing, which is a shame
1:58:12
because I think it could, it could be good and it could still
1:58:15
be good, but it's done absolutely nothing to add to the
1:58:17
match because that match didn't need anything, Adam.
1:58:20
And it was, it was a good friend, George, who's going to
1:58:23
horrendous time at the moment. We'll love you, brother.
1:58:25
He pointed out that, like Randy and Code, you've never actually
1:58:28
spoke to each other since the heel turn.
1:58:32
Interesting. Yeah, I know.
1:58:34
That is a bit strange, isn't it? Like I don't like Duet and
1:58:36
that's just because the vinsert pat mafian and plans have
1:58:39
changed or didn't they? I thought was quite interesting
1:58:42
point you'd realized. I think it's it could be that as
1:58:46
it could be that. I think that could be an
1:58:47
interesting psychology. Pretty much like Randy's turned
1:58:50
he on. I'm so much way like he doesn't
1:58:51
want to talk to him. He doesn't even he doesn't even
1:58:53
recognize that the one's family. Yeah.
1:58:56
Will that be? Will that break Randy down?
1:59:00
Yeah, and then we might get that this week.
1:59:02
We don't know. But yeah, I hadn't realized that
1:59:04
myself. I thought was quite a good
1:59:05
observation by George that like, Yeah, they hadn't.
1:59:07
They've not actually spoken because you've inserted Pat
1:59:10
Mafia and if he knew it. No, indeed.
1:59:13
And I think just want to shout out, obviously, George, we love
1:59:15
you, buddy. My mom has gone through a bit of
1:59:18
all time. So we love you, Mama, Christine.
1:59:20
I do. I've got some friends at work
1:59:22
are going through a tough time. So we love you guys as well.
1:59:26
Yeah. And I think.
1:59:28
Yeah, and the world can be pretty shitty, but it is.
1:59:30
It's one of the reasons why I still, and we'll always,
1:59:33
probably always watch wrestling because it's it's the ultimate
1:59:36
escape for me. It's daft, it's silly.
1:59:38
And then I get taught you for two hours a week about it as
1:59:40
well. So now that's that's why I love
1:59:42
professional wrestling. It's it's always been a
1:59:44
brilliant escape for is it many, many times in my life.
1:59:47
Definitely. I think, you know, as I
1:59:48
mentioned at the beginning, you know, it's been a bit of a week
1:59:50
for me, but I think I was excited to come and talk
1:59:53
wrestling today. Like we've done that and I said
1:59:56
pro wrestling, it makes us happy and we love it and it's always
1:59:59
there to help us get through the bad times and that's why we love
2:00:01
pro wrestling. And with that, I think there's
2:00:03
one thing one thing left to say and that is it's still real.
2:00:07
The bus, damn it. Damn it.