Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Gorgeous Mom Set on Fire by Ex TESTIFIES FROM BEYOND GRAVE

Transcript

Gorgeous Mom Set on Fire by Ex TESTIFIES FROM BEYOND GRAVE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: How can a beautiful young woman testify in her own
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: murder trial?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: and series exem one eleven. First of all, take a
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: list to our cut one. This is a nine to
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: one one call from the Franklin County Sheriffs.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Franklin Caning Sheriff.
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: That's going to help you.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Hello, what's the address? Okay?
• 0:56
  Speaker 5: Okay, I need you to stop.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: Screaming so I can understand you. What is the address?
• 1:03
  Speaker 6: What's going on?
• 1:06
  Speaker 7: Nobody is on fire?
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: We already got to call them on the way. Can
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: you tell me who? Goodness?
• 1:22
  Speaker 8: Go here?
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: What did he do? What like gasoline?
• 1:25
  Speaker 9: What did he do?
• 1:25
  Speaker 10: Girl?
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: Sitting on the ground and here the police are there.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: You're here, okay, and there's more. Listen to our friend
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Less inside edition and are cut eighteen.
• 1:44
  Speaker 5: I mean, go to stop screaming because I can't understand
• 1:46
  Speaker 5: what you're saying.
• 1:46
  Speaker 11: The thirty three year old woman tried to break up
• 1:49
  Speaker 11: with Slager as they sat at a gas station outside Columbus, Ohio.
• 1:53
  Speaker 11: Judy pulled it from his car, Slager chased her, doused
• 1:57
  Speaker 11: her with gasoline, then litter into a fireball.
• 2:01
  Speaker 12: Judy's mom, Bonnie.
• 2:03
  Speaker 13: They told me that he had dolster in gasoline and
• 2:06
  Speaker 13: set her on fire.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: And she suffered horribly. Take Us to Our cut nineteen.
• 2:13
  Speaker 11: Ever since that terrible day, Judy has been a patient
• 2:16
  Speaker 11: at Ohio State University Medical Center, where she underwent fifty
• 2:20
  Speaker 11: surgeries for burns covering eighty five percent of her body.
• 2:25
  Speaker 11: Her mother had to put on a gown and gloves
• 2:27
  Speaker 11: in order to visit. Judy's young daughters, Caitlin and Madison,
• 2:32
  Speaker 11: also had to put on protective gowns and gloves to
• 2:35
  Speaker 11: be by their mom's bedside.
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: Can Creak help my Mom Get made?
• 2:39
  Speaker 11: Judy allowed Inside Addition to air this video because she
• 2:42
  Speaker 11: wanted other abused women to learn from her experience and
• 2:46
  Speaker 11: seek help before it's too late.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Believe it or not, this incident caused her to be
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: in a seven month coma. Take Us to Our Friends
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: at Crimeonline dot Com and cut Ocie.
• 3:00
  Speaker 13: When Judy Melanowski wakes up from a seven month coma,
• 3:03
  Speaker 13: she learns that she lost her hair, eyebrows, and eyelashes
• 3:06
  Speaker 13: in the blaze. Malanowski's face is skeletal, her ears completely gone,
• 3:11
  Speaker 13: along with most of her eyesight and several fingers. Her
• 3:14
  Speaker 13: arm amputated where it had been burned to the bone.
• 3:18
  Speaker 13: Burn experts estimated that with roughly ninety percent of her
• 3:21
  Speaker 13: body covered in third and fourth degree burns, Malanowski had
• 3:24
  Speaker 13: one hundred and ten percent chance of mortality. Doctors have
• 3:28
  Speaker 13: no medical explanation as to how Malanowski survived more than
• 3:32
  Speaker 13: a few hours.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: Joining me right now in addition to Judy's mother, Bonnie Bowles,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Patricia Gillespie, director of the fire that took her on
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Paramount Patricia, thank you for being with us. How did
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: this incident unfold? What happened?
• 3:52
  Speaker 6: Well, I think there were, you know, the consolation of
• 3:55
  Speaker 6: factors that keep women trapped in abusive relationships. One thing
• 4:00
  Speaker 6: that I think is very important to note in this
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: particular story and many women's stories the one and three
• 4:05
  Speaker 6: women who experienced domestic violence in this country is at
• 4:09
  Speaker 6: the most dangerous time for a woman is when she's
• 4:11
  Speaker 6: about to leave. And I think, you know, when Michael
• 4:16
  Speaker 6: realized that he was not going to be able to
• 4:18
  Speaker 6: maintain control of Judy, he sort of, you know, exploded,
• 4:23
  Speaker 6: He just escalated very quickly. And this was able to unfold.
• 4:27
  Speaker 6: But it is important to note that there was a
• 4:31
  Speaker 6: substantive history of abusive behavior from him that led up
• 4:34
  Speaker 6: to this, just nothing quite so extreme with us.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Is the director of the fire that took her, which
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you can say on paramount plus. I want to go
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: to a very special guest joining us now, and it's
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: not just joining us. This is extremely painful for her
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: to discuss, but she is due doing it to make
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: her daughter's story known and to help other crime victims.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: With me is Bonnie Bow's Judy Melanowski's mother, founder of
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Judy's Foundation, and you can find her at Judy'sfoundation dot org.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Miss bos thank you for being.
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: With us, Thank you for having me.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Miss bos Is.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I have a son and a daughter, and it's very
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: hard for me to comprehend pouring in all my love,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: all my time, all my energy, my thoughts, my heart,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: everything into them, watching them grow up and then seeing
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: an a hole like Michael Slager take it all away
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and such a brutal.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: Fashion.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Miss Bo's when did you learn something horrible had happened
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to Judy?
• 6:11
  Speaker 7: On a Sunday afternoon, I got a call from OSU
• 6:14
  Speaker 7: Hospital and I learned the hospital called and said, ask
• 6:20
  Speaker 7: me a strange question, was I'm Judy's mother? And then
• 6:24
  Speaker 7: they followed that question with did I have any objections
• 6:28
  Speaker 7: to putting her on a ventilator?
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, Okay, hold on right there.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: Miss Bo's doctor Tim Gallagher is joining US renowned medical
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: examiner for the State of Florida at pathcaremed dot com,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Lecturer Florida Medical School, Forensic Medicine, and is the founder
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and host of the International Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Dr Gallagher, when you hear that that someone's being put
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: on a ventilator, what.
• 6:59
  Speaker 14: Does that well, Being put on a ventilator typically involves
• 7:05
  Speaker 14: difficulty in breathing, so the patient cannot breathe on their own.
• 7:09
  Speaker 14: And in cases where fire is involved, you have to
• 7:13
  Speaker 14: understand that not only is the skin being burned, but
• 7:16
  Speaker 14: the victim is actually breathing in the heat, breathing in
• 7:19
  Speaker 14: the flames, and that's going directly to their lungs, causing damage.
• 7:25
  Speaker 14: So it's important that the person be put on a
• 7:28
  Speaker 14: ventilator to help oxygenate the body and to help get
• 7:32
  Speaker 14: the healing process going as soon as possible.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Did you hear how much a Jud's body was burned.
• 7:40
  Speaker 14: I certainly did you know? And in cases where over
• 7:42
  Speaker 14: ninety percent of the body is burned, the death rate
• 7:46
  Speaker 14: is somewhere in the nineties and ninety percent. It's very
• 7:49
  Speaker 14: unusual to have someone survive with this degree of injury.
• 7:55
  Speaker 14: I understand some of the burns were fourth degree burned,
• 7:59
  Speaker 14: some of it was charged with the skin was charred
• 8:02
  Speaker 14: down to the bone.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Dr Gallagher. I know this is your job.
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: Like often people can't make sense of, for instance, me
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: talking about homicide case and the circumstances surrounding it because
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: it's very cut and dried. It's hard for me to
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: take in what you're saying. I know this is your
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: line of business, but have you looked at Judy in life?
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I mean a mom number one? How many children did
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: she have?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: Bonnie two is correct, she's I'm looking at a picture
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: of her right now at Christmas with her two little girls,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: one on either side. I love doing that with the twins,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: the Christmas trees behind her, and she's beautiful with the
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: long brunette hair, the big smile, happy on Christmas Day,
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: and you're just really cutting through it. Dr Gallagher talking
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: about charring and fourth degree burns.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Could you just.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I know you don't need a bedside manner with your patients,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: but could you ease me into this Dottor Gallagher Police.
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Sure thing?
• 9:13
  Speaker 14: Okay, Well, we spoke about other reasons why she could
• 9:17
  Speaker 14: be on a ventilator, you know, and there's a lung
• 9:20
  Speaker 14: damage that goes along with being burned. There's actually swelling.
• 9:24
  Speaker 14: The body reacts by swelling, and some of that swelling
• 9:28
  Speaker 14: can occur in the throat area, which would limit the
• 9:32
  Speaker 14: amount of air that the victim can breathe in. So
• 9:36
  Speaker 14: the object is healing started as soon as possible. You
• 9:41
  Speaker 14: want to make sure that the body gets enough oxygen
• 9:44
  Speaker 14: and so that way the tissues can start to repair
• 9:47
  Speaker 14: process as early as possible.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: What's a fourth degree burn as opposed to a third, second,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: or first?
• 9:54
  Speaker 14: So a fourth degree burn is when not only is
• 9:57
  Speaker 14: the skin burned and the saw tissue underneath, but it's
• 10:01
  Speaker 14: also starting to burn now the tendons and the muscle underneath.
• 10:06
  Speaker 14: So the problem with a fourth degree burn is that
• 10:10
  Speaker 14: the nerves are burned, so this injury has no pain
• 10:14
  Speaker 14: associated with it. The nerves that are associated to bring
• 10:19
  Speaker 14: the pain to the victim are gone. Now they can't
• 10:22
  Speaker 14: feel anything, and so to them it doesn't seem as serious.
• 10:28
  Speaker 14: But it is quite certainly serious and does require extensive
• 10:33
  Speaker 14: surgical removal of the dead tissue and subsequent skin graph
• 10:40
  Speaker 14: operations to replace the skin that's lost if you have.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Enough skin to use for replacement.
• 10:46
  Speaker 15: She was burned over such a huge percentage of her body.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Time stories with me. It'sy grace.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Doctor Tim Gallagher joining us out of Florida. Why is
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: why would being burned in this manner put you in
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: a coma?
• 11:15
  Speaker 14: Well, that's a very good question. I think what they
• 11:20
  Speaker 14: were put in was a medically induced coma and what
• 11:25
  Speaker 14: happens is it helps with the healing, but it helps
• 11:29
  Speaker 14: with the subsequent surgical procedures that she needs. Now. I
• 11:33
  Speaker 14: know she needed over fifty types of operations, and one
• 11:38
  Speaker 14: of those operations is skin grafting, and in her case,
• 11:42
  Speaker 14: because so much of her own skin was lost, they
• 11:46
  Speaker 14: needed to take skin from a donor a person or
• 11:52
  Speaker 14: perhaps even a cadaver skin. And those it's very difficult
• 11:59
  Speaker 14: to do that operation because you lean on that skin
• 12:02
  Speaker 14: or you lay on that skin, and that will not
• 12:06
  Speaker 14: allow the skin to so called take to the body.
• 12:10
  Speaker 14: So the person has to be in a coma or
• 12:15
  Speaker 14: sufficiently sedated so they don't turn and lean on that skin,
• 12:20
  Speaker 14: that new skin that they receive, and that skin can
• 12:24
  Speaker 14: start to take It's.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: Very difficult for me to look at her smiling with
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: their two little girls in front of a Christmas tree
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: and hear you so clinically and correctly, doctor Gallagher describe
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: what she endured. Miss Bonnie bows is with us. This
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: is Judy Melanowski's mother, Bonnie. So you get this call
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: and they immediately say, are you Judy Melanowski's mother? And
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: can we put her on a ventilator? What you said
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: it was a Sunday. What went through your mind.
• 13:01
  Speaker 7: Well, disbelief. My first reaction was what a strange question.
• 13:05
  Speaker 7: I'm her mother, so that automatically sent a non comprehensive
• 13:11
  Speaker 7: of course, I'm her mom. And it didn't hit me
• 13:14
  Speaker 7: until I was driving to the hospital that that was
• 13:17
  Speaker 7: life support.
• 13:19
  Speaker 16: So then it.
• 13:20
  Speaker 7: Dawned on me that there was a real problem, and
• 13:23
  Speaker 7: I became It became a very difficult drive to get
• 13:26
  Speaker 7: there in Park you.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Know, I remember trying so hard to get from New
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: York to my father and making Georgia when they had
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: just put him on life support. I was out on
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: the street at midnight, holding the twins by their hands,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: trying to flag a taxi, just trying desperately to get home.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: And that ride you're describing to get to the hospital
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: must have been excruciating when you got to the hospital
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: and you saw your daughter. What did you see?
• 14:02
  Speaker 7: When I got to the hospital, they when she was
• 14:06
  Speaker 7: in trauma, and so I had to wait for about
• 14:09
  Speaker 7: six hours or longer before she was stable enough. But
• 14:14
  Speaker 7: when I was able to go in and see her,
• 14:18
  Speaker 7: I just seen my I just seen my baby because
• 14:22
  Speaker 7: she was alive, and that's what I was praying for
• 14:26
  Speaker 7: during that whole six hours. So I didn't see the
• 14:32
  Speaker 7: disfigurement and the burns and the swelling.
• 14:34
  Speaker 14: I just.
• 14:37
  Speaker 7: Was so relieved that she was alive, even if it
• 14:40
  Speaker 7: was from a ventilator.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting thing that you just said. I
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: want to go to doctor Chloe Carmichael, renowned clinical psychologists
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: joining us, author of a Nervous Energy Harnessed the Power
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of Your Anxiety at doctor Chloe dot com.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe, thank you for being with us.
• 14:59
  Speaker 17: You know.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: And I see my husband. To me, he looks just
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: like he did when we met after college. He hasn't
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: changed to me. And here is this mom who stood
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: by her daughter through all this and Judy passed away
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: because of the fire attack on her. And when she
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: sees Judy in the hospital with this huge percentage of
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: her body burned, she says, she just looked like my
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: little baby.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: What is that?
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Because I know David has changed and Judy had to
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: look different in the hospital after this, as they said
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: on Inside Edition, being turned into a fireball. What is
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: that phenomena?
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Nancy that it's such a deep question and there's
• 15:55
  Speaker 5: a couple of possible answers. Really, On one hand, it's
• 16:00
  Speaker 5: kind of a trauma protective measure, just like when we're
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: going through extremely difficult situations sometimes our brain actually almost
• 16:11
  Speaker 5: limits what it is that we're able to take it
• 16:13
  Speaker 5: in process because it's a survival mechanism to help us
• 16:17
  Speaker 5: to be able to get through a particular moment, to
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: be able to be with and engage, you know, with
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: her daughter without necessarily going into the traumatizing experience right
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: then and there of everything else that was being processed.
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: And then the other side of it as well, is
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: that it's kind of a through line there of that
• 16:42
  Speaker 5: fierce mama bear love that Judy was not only displaying
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: for her own children as she as she fought for
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: them and their future even through her last moments, but
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Judy was also receiving that love from her own mother
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: in her moment. And you can hear me getting a
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: little choked up. It's it's it's so poignant.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Amazingly wild.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Judy is in the hospital after coming out of a coma.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: She gives a statement and in effect ends up testifying
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: in her own murder trial. Take a listen to our
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: cut two. This is Detective Chad Kahagen speaking to Judy.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: Can you hear me?
• 17:38
  Speaker 17: Yeah, my niece hear hers today. Okay, we're giving your
• 17:44
  Speaker 17: care of you.
• 17:45
  Speaker 8: You're in the hospital.
• 17:46
  Speaker 17: Okay, she has some burns, so I'm going to try
• 17:50
  Speaker 17: to keep you coming up on here.
• 17:52
  Speaker 8: Hey, are you hurting right now?
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: All right?
• 17:57
  Speaker 17: Would you write someone asked you a couple of questions
• 17:59
  Speaker 17: about what happens?
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: Stay long, jud stay calm baby.
• 18:05
  Speaker 12: Detective Shagen Johanna can yarn me? Yeah, Judy? Did you
• 18:10
  Speaker 12: still gas on yourself?
• 18:13
  Speaker 11: No?
• 18:15
  Speaker 12: Did Mike still gas on you? Did Mike throw gas
• 18:20
  Speaker 12: on you?
• 18:22
  Speaker 15: Yes?
• 18:23
  Speaker 12: Yes? Okay, thank you.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my stars, you are hearing that interview by Detective
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Chad o'hagen, and it was also part of this incredible documentary,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: The Fire that Took Her, joining me not only the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: director of the Fire that Took Her, Patricia Gillespie, but
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: now famous detective Chad Gohagen, investigative lieutenant for the police Department.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: He worked Judy's case. Detective, thank you for being with us,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Detective Cohgan. I just can't imagine
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: what you did. Describe going in Judy's room and the
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: emotions that must have just overwhelmed you. Yet you kept
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: your head on, you managed to ask her questions, and
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: because of you and the strength of Judy Melanowski, she
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: was able to in effect testify at her own murder triumph.
• 19:33
  Speaker 18: Yeah, honestly, I remember that day like it was yesterday.
• 19:37
  Speaker 18: It was very overwhelming. We had a conversation with the
• 19:41
  Speaker 18: medical staff beforehand. They were actually bringing her out of
• 19:44
  Speaker 18: sedation to do a neurological exam to you know, to
• 19:46
  Speaker 18: check to see, you know, where she was where she
• 19:49
  Speaker 18: was at there. I spoke with some doctors and nurses
• 19:52
  Speaker 18: and asked them if they thought it was appropriate if
• 19:55
  Speaker 18: I could talk to Judy just a couple of simple
• 19:57
  Speaker 18: questions just to clear up some statements that Mike made
• 20:01
  Speaker 18: that that didn't really coincide with the evidence we were seeing.
• 20:04
  Speaker 18: On seeing. They agreed that three or four short questions
• 20:10
  Speaker 18: would would be okay. I remember I talked to Bonnie
• 20:13
  Speaker 18: about it to let her know that that's what was
• 20:16
  Speaker 18: going to happen, and I remember how calm she was,
• 20:19
  Speaker 18: and I think you can hear it and her voice
• 20:21
  Speaker 18: in the video, how calm Bonnie was during that situation,
• 20:25
  Speaker 18: which I'm a father, I can't imagine. You know, you
• 20:28
  Speaker 18: guys have spoken about what she was going through. So
• 20:30
  Speaker 18: her calmness honestly calmed me down and helped me get
• 20:35
  Speaker 18: through that at that point in my career and since then,
• 20:38
  Speaker 18: as a police officer, we see, you know, unfortunately, we
• 20:41
  Speaker 18: see a lot of human tragedy, but to that point,
• 20:45
  Speaker 18: and since I have not seen trauma to a body
• 20:49
  Speaker 18: that was still alive, Judy's strength was evident at that
• 20:56
  Speaker 18: initial interview, and then you know almost two years, how
• 21:00
  Speaker 18: her fight was for two years, So she showed strength
• 21:03
  Speaker 18: right off the bat and being able to answer my
• 21:05
  Speaker 18: questions even though you know, I could tell you know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 18: I was very close to her to make sure that
• 21:09
  Speaker 18: she could hear my questions. That the pain was evidence
• 21:14
  Speaker 18: on her face and her eyes. But she just kept
• 21:17
  Speaker 18: that inner strength through the whole ordeal and was able
• 21:20
  Speaker 18: to you know, testify on her own murder trial, which
• 21:23
  Speaker 18: was just amazing.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Detective I tried a lot of cases, a lot of felonies,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: a lot of murders, and investigated you know, ten times
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that many, but certain ones stay in my mind. I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: imagine that this is one that stays with you.
• 21:41
  Speaker 18: It is, yeah, I don't again, it's it's something that
• 21:46
  Speaker 18: you know, our courts have never seen. I don't think
• 21:48
  Speaker 18: there's been any courts in the United States that's seen
• 21:50
  Speaker 18: something to this effect. You know, just the sounds, the
• 21:55
  Speaker 18: beeping in the background, just tearing that honestly, you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 18: somewhat church me and you know a little you know
• 22:01
  Speaker 18: PTSD that our PTS today that I have from that incident.
• 22:06
  Speaker 18: But it's it's it's just a credit to Judy strength
• 22:09
  Speaker 18: and then Bonnie strength. You know, I've said a million
• 22:11
  Speaker 18: times to Bonnie. Bonnie's you know, my hero. As far
• 22:14
  Speaker 18: as her strength of the whole case, she was an
• 22:17
  Speaker 18: advocate for Judy from from day one. It was Judy's
• 22:21
  Speaker 18: strength that I think got her through the ordeal, But
• 22:24
  Speaker 18: it was it was really Bonnie strength behind the scenes
• 22:26
  Speaker 18: and therein day in and day out that that allowed
• 22:29
  Speaker 18: Judy to get well enough to testify and her own
• 22:33
  Speaker 18: murder trial and put Michael away for the rest of
• 22:35
  Speaker 18: his life, which is which is where he belonged to.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut five after you take
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: to Chad Coohagen meets with Judy in our hospital bed.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Take a listen to the murder victim in her own words.
• 22:54
  Speaker 9: This is the speedway at three seventy six Aglar Road, right, Yes,
• 23:00
  Speaker 9: so you while he went inside, you got out of
• 23:02
  Speaker 9: the truck and went behind that speedway.
• 23:04
  Speaker 12: There's a bank there right, yes. And what happened is
• 23:11
  Speaker 12: you stood behind that speedway.
• 23:15
  Speaker 16: Make him in a matter of who knows him it
• 23:19
  Speaker 16: all around in this truck. He saw me and immediately
• 23:26
  Speaker 16: fland the truck in the park, got out, demand that
• 23:30
  Speaker 16: I got into the truck with him, clubbed me all
• 23:33
  Speaker 16: sorts of names. We argue for the five minutes and
• 23:39
  Speaker 16: then I threw my top.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: On him and our cut six as GD continues struggling
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to speak.
• 23:47
  Speaker 12: You threw a pop on him? Yes? Did you splashed
• 23:52
  Speaker 12: it on him or actually throw the top at him?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Him?
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: And this cup was in a hard plat sick or
• 24:00
  Speaker 9: paper or what was it made out of?
• 24:02
  Speaker 17: I believe cut?
• 24:04
  Speaker 9: Okay, did the drink get on him?
• 24:10
  Speaker 12: What was his reaction to this?
• 24:13
  Speaker 8: Was extremely up at and.
• 24:16
  Speaker 12: What did he do?
• 24:18
  Speaker 16: He ran around to the other side of his truck
• 24:21
  Speaker 16: and he got uh.
• 24:24
  Speaker 8: You know, the back of his truck.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: So he abusive throughout their relationship, tries to force her
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: back into his truck. They argue she won't get into
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: his truck with him. For another beating, she throws a
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: styrofoam cup at him, and his response is to go
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: get the gasoline cup from the back of his truck.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Listen to our cut seven. As Judy continues trying to
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: tell her story, it.
• 24:58
  Speaker 16: Was Yeah, he ran around with me and started gasoline
• 25:05
  Speaker 16: started out.
• 25:05
  Speaker 8: Of my head and warned his way down so got
• 25:09
  Speaker 8: in my throat.
• 25:10
  Speaker 16: She did that.
• 25:13
  Speaker 9: Really bad gasoline in your throat burnt really bad? Yes,
• 25:20
  Speaker 9: And what happened as a result of having this gasoline poured.
• 25:24
  Speaker 12: On you.
• 25:26
  Speaker 8: And then you know fire?
• 25:28
  Speaker 12: Well, let's slow down a little bit before that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 9: Did you remain standing or were you standing when he
• 25:35
  Speaker 9: poured the gasoline on you?
• 25:39
  Speaker 12: When he poured the gasoline on you, were you standing?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: She tried to run and he grabbed her and she tripped.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: When she was running, he pushed her. She tripped. Take
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a listen to our cut nine.
• 25:55
  Speaker 9: When you trip and you're following and you're laying there
• 25:58
  Speaker 9: holding yourself up on one hand, and he's pouring gasoline
• 26:02
  Speaker 9: on you. What's his demeanor as he's pouring the gasoline
• 26:05
  Speaker 9: on you?
• 26:07
  Speaker 8: Evil? Just completely evil?
• 26:11
  Speaker 16: Not he kind of res funny to any of my
• 26:16
  Speaker 16: gris grow He won't tell me why. He just is like,
• 26:22
  Speaker 16: you want to throw something.
• 26:24
  Speaker 8: On somewhere, You want to throw up one and you
• 26:27
  Speaker 8: see what I'll do to you?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: How do you like this?
• 26:31
  Speaker 8: And just all sorts of bother your names?
• 26:35
  Speaker 9: Okay, So Judy, was this a joking demeanor? You poured
• 26:39
  Speaker 9: something on me, I'm gonna put someone on you.
• 26:40
  Speaker 8: Hahah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 12: Isn't this funny?
• 26:43
  Speaker 14: No?
• 26:43
  Speaker 8: It would an evil demeanor?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: And our cut tin as GV continues struggling to speak.
• 26:51
  Speaker 12: After he poured the gasoline on you, what happens next?
• 26:58
  Speaker 16: Evacuated from me for about thirty seconds, and.
• 27:04
  Speaker 19: I telling, so.
• 27:06
  Speaker 16: Please tell me and saw and I'll get I'll get
• 27:10
  Speaker 16: the truck.
• 27:10
  Speaker 8: I'll go with you.
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: You know, why did I and why.
• 27:15
  Speaker 8: Would you do this?
• 27:16
  Speaker 16: And I looked at him and he I robbed his
• 27:21
  Speaker 16: pocket and he started.
• 27:23
  Speaker 8: Walking towards me.
• 27:25
  Speaker 16: And I just remember kying of dating for help, and
• 27:30
  Speaker 16: he left me on fire and to look into his
• 27:33
  Speaker 16: eyes where his guys left.
• 27:36
  Speaker 8: Back literally after I was on fire. That's why I
• 27:42
  Speaker 8: was just turning black as.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: I streamed for his hel Miss Bose is with us
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Judy's mother. When you hear her voice, what do you
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: think my heartaches?
• 27:59
  Speaker 7: I hear her voice, it aches from our two year
• 28:03
  Speaker 7: journey that she suffered. When I hear her voice.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Jack Ohagen, who worked the case so tirelessly, when you
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: hear Judy's voice, what goes through your mind?
• 28:15
  Speaker 18: You know, you can hear the strength of of her,
• 28:19
  Speaker 18: you know, resolve to testify, h to speak to what
• 28:23
  Speaker 18: happened to her, that the evil that she saw that
• 28:25
  Speaker 18: day and was what a victim to that day. But
• 28:30
  Speaker 18: really for us it was it was such a powerful,
• 28:35
  Speaker 18: you know, tool and the investigative process that everything that
• 28:38
  Speaker 18: the facts were showing us lined up to what Judy
• 28:41
  Speaker 18: could now tell us in the case. Uh, seeing the video,
• 28:45
  Speaker 18: you know, talking to the witnesses, we had an idea
• 28:47
  Speaker 18: of what happened, but to hear it from Judy's uh
• 28:51
  Speaker 18: and Judy's own words just backed everything up and made
• 28:54
  Speaker 18: the case that much stronger.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Joining me now is high profile homicide prosecutor Jarrett Farantino. Jarrett,
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Jarrett. At the time
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: that this goes to trial, Judy Malinowski is no longer
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: with us. There are many ways a defense attorney can
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: try to keep Judy's own words from coming in before
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: a jury.
• 29:39
  Speaker 20: How Nancy, there are many ways, but here are the things.
• 29:43
  Speaker 20: They look at this historic case and say, what are
• 29:46
  Speaker 20: the guarantees of trustworthiness of Judy's testimony? What are the
• 29:51
  Speaker 20: guardrails that were put in place that her testimony was
• 29:55
  Speaker 20: locked in prior to her death, and the defense attorney
• 30:00
  Speaker 20: and the prosecution were given, as you know, Nancy, the
• 30:03
  Speaker 20: law says, a full and fair opportunity to examine Judy
• 30:08
  Speaker 20: her recollection of events. The defense attorney was given the
• 30:11
  Speaker 20: chance to cross examine her and test her knowledge and
• 30:16
  Speaker 20: memory of the case. Those guardrails prior to trial allowed
• 30:20
  Speaker 20: for her testimony to be secured and secured in a
• 30:23
  Speaker 20: fashion that it would ultimately be admissible in a trial.
• 30:27
  Speaker 20: I've had that several times in a case. Never a
• 30:31
  Speaker 20: situation where you're recording the victim of a homicide. We've
• 30:35
  Speaker 20: had witnesses that have died. But the most important part
• 30:39
  Speaker 20: is that the defense has that opportunity to examine the
• 30:42
  Speaker 20: witness and test their recollection. It makes it admissible at
• 30:46
  Speaker 20: that point.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Now, at the beginning, he was charged only with assault
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: and aggravated arson.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Listen to our cut three, I'd talk about what happened.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, So whether Gorman under arrest or something?
• 31:04
  Speaker 16: Right now?
• 31:04
  Speaker 12: Yeah, you are under arrest. What if being chords, we're
• 31:07
  Speaker 12: going to be charged from Its just saw maggregated arsenal.
• 31:12
  Speaker 21: Okay, let me just be direct with you too, mikeel Okay,
• 31:15
  Speaker 21: where you where the where it happened at there's an
• 31:17
  Speaker 21: ATM right there, Okay, any ATM reports all the time
• 31:22
  Speaker 21: we had.
• 31:23
  Speaker 12: The tactics to go pull the footage, were reviewing the footage.
• 31:25
  Speaker 12: We've all seen the footage.
• 31:27
  Speaker 10: We know exactly what happened, kay, So we saw exactly
• 31:30
  Speaker 10: what happened. We saw you for gasoline over the top
• 31:33
  Speaker 10: of her head. She someone was sitting around. He lean
• 31:36
  Speaker 10: over and light her own front.
• 31:37
  Speaker 18: We saw what.
• 31:39
  Speaker 12: Happened, and we know what happened. Is this not the
• 31:43
  Speaker 12: way it looks so just taking to my attorney.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: It's not the way it looks now. That was to
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: take to Chad cohagen speaking to the defendant. And we
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: heard it as well on the documentary the fire that
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: took her. Jack o'hagen is with us, tell me about
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: that ATM video.
• 32:03
  Speaker 18: So the ATM video we were hoping, we knew there
• 32:06
  Speaker 18: was an ATM there. We were hoping that it would
• 32:09
  Speaker 18: have caught some of what happened, if not the whole thing.
• 32:13
  Speaker 18: I ended up catching the majority of the argument, and
• 32:17
  Speaker 18: it caught Mike pulling, pouring gasoline on Judy. Judy obviously
• 32:22
  Speaker 18: stumbling around and then falling to the ground. Mike leaves
• 32:27
  Speaker 18: the frame then for thirty seconds, and thirty seconds later
• 32:30
  Speaker 18: he comes over, bends down and she erupts into flame.
• 32:36
  Speaker 18: Once we saw that, we knew that Mike's his initial
• 32:43
  Speaker 18: story that you know, his initial story was that she
• 32:46
  Speaker 18: was pouring gas into his truck and poured some on her.
• 32:49
  Speaker 18: He tried to light a cigarette for her, and then
• 32:52
  Speaker 18: she went.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: Up in flames.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, well what his story was?
• 32:55
  Speaker 14: What?
• 32:56
  Speaker 18: So his initial story to our officers that arrived on scene,
• 32:59
  Speaker 18: he told him she was pouring gash into my truck
• 33:02
  Speaker 18: with a gas can, got some gas on her, and
• 33:05
  Speaker 18: then I went to light a cigarette for her, and
• 33:08
  Speaker 18: she erupted in flames. So that was his initial story
• 33:11
  Speaker 18: to our officers who arrived on scene. Once in the hospital,
• 33:16
  Speaker 18: he changed his story to, Yeah, I poured gasoline on her,
• 33:20
  Speaker 18: but then we made up really quickly in that thirty seconds,
• 33:24
  Speaker 18: and so I was going to be a gentleman and
• 33:26
  Speaker 18: light a cigarette for her, and that's how she that's
• 33:29
  Speaker 18: how she caught fire. The ATM video clearly showed that
• 33:33
  Speaker 18: that's you know, his story was not adding up to
• 33:37
  Speaker 18: what our witnesses had seen. And then also with the ATM.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Video show and I imagine he was hoping that she
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: would die before she could tell police what really happened. Listen,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: so this.
• 33:50
  Speaker 9: Entire time, you're asking for help, But did you make
• 33:54
  Speaker 9: up with him in any way during these thirty seconds
• 33:57
  Speaker 9: between him pouring gas lean on you and blewing out
• 34:01
  Speaker 9: the lighter and setting you on fire? No, and did
• 34:06
  Speaker 9: you at any time produce a cigarette and ask for
• 34:08
  Speaker 9: a light? Okay, a matter of fact, did you have
• 34:12
  Speaker 9: any cigarettes on you?
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I firmly believe now this.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Testimony from Gdi Melanowski was played at defendant's arraignment for
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: murder and ultimately pleading guilty. Because of this testimony is
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: played in open fort to you, Patricia Gillespie, why was
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: it so important to you to tell this story in
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: the fire that took her?
• 34:45
  Speaker 6: First of all, I'm a domestic violence deriver myself, and
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: when I found the story, I knew I needed to
• 34:50
  Speaker 6: make the film because it was a story I had
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: needed when I was going through my own struggles with
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: this issue. In large heart, because what Judy did by
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: testifying is she she subverted this idea of the victim right.
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: A lot of times when we're attacked, we've become sort
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: of a passive victim in our stories. But Judy, even
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: from the lowest condition imaginable, didn't allow that to happen
• 35:19
  Speaker 6: to herself. She became the hero she had needed, and
• 35:22
  Speaker 6: I knew that was a voice a lot of other
• 35:23
  Speaker 6: women would benefit from, because I myself benefited from it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: To Judy's mother, Bonnie goes, what is your message today?
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: On behalf of Judy? You are her voice now to
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: other domestic violence victims.
• 35:41
  Speaker 7: Judy's message was to turn from domestic violence victims. She
• 35:48
  Speaker 7: that you can overcome and you can get away, and
• 35:51
  Speaker 7: her main goal was to, as Judy put it to
• 35:55
  Speaker 7: quote her, to help just one woman. She said her
• 35:58
  Speaker 7: suffering would not be in vain if she could help
• 36:01
  Speaker 7: just one woman had the courage to turn and walk
• 36:04
  Speaker 7: away and to get out, and that that was truly
• 36:07
  Speaker 7: Judy's message.
• 36:09
  Speaker 11: I he.
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: I so, I don't mean to break down. I'm sorry.
• 36:18
  Speaker 4: I'm trying stillary to stay strung, but it's just alive.
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: It's so Harry when when he.
• 36:28
  Speaker 19: Isn't even rea more still for anything, Oh my gosh,
• 36:40
  Speaker 19: my heart break.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: For those of you that need it or know someone
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: who needs it. The Domestic Abuse Hotline one eight hundred
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: seventy nine nine seven two three three.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,