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Iron Fist 14: Snowfire! Featuring Adam Santangelo and Frank Moran! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grimalkin Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order I am here with two amazing creators today Adam Santangelo is here for the first time and my friend Frank Moran from X-Men 97 is back with us I was recording with Emmett Yonamura just the other day and Emmett reminded me that he sees Frank and I as the same person
• 0:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, praise, I'm happy to be in this company as well, and then recently I was at Toronto, Tika, where I got to meet Adam at his booth.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk a little about that today as well.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me have you both introduce yourselves to our listeners.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you would, with your pronouns, tell us a little about your professional work, and then my intro question for you both today is what's the coldest temperature you've ever been in?
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be discussing the first appearance of Sabertooth in the latter half in an episode called SnowBlind, and it's a Sabertooth versus IronFist in the frigid north.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me welcome Adam Santage, a little game, I'll get laid high Adam.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks for having me on.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: As you said, I'm Adam Santagello.
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: My pronouns are he, him.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I write comic books.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm currently writing a series called Mantle.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And funny enough, 30 years ago, I also wrote comic books.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote a couple Spider-Man stories for Marvel, and I was an intern there when I was in high school.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I had a 30 year break in my comic writing career.
• 1:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as for the coldest temperature I've ever been in, it was probably at home.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in Toronto, Canada.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So summers right now are quite hot and humid, but winters, you know, we fall full well below zero.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Celsius and it gets pretty icy.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Celsius, what's that?
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kidding.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And welcome Frank back to the show, hi Frank.
• 1:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Chad Adam, I'm Frank Moran of pronounced he him and I'm the character coordinator on X bin 97 and see the coldest I can remember is an eighth grade as part of like kind of like graduation kind of thing.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: We went to or like you had to do senior trips and it was one to to white pines ranch in Illinois where I live and it was so cold that I just remember being outside and breathing in through your nose and it was your nose would stick together and I remember that was the first time that
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: this is insane.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on?
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So lastly, I'm Chad Anderson.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I used to keep him pronouns.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: I grew up in the Missouri Ozarks where we had these weird kind of ice storms that would hit.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there'd be like a low level of moisture and then it would freeze solid.
• 2:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're talking like winter wonderland shit.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like every bow of every tree of every branch would be covered in like a thin sheen of ice.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then when the morning hit, a lot of the branches or telephone poles would like break because the weight of the ice in the now like melting temperature would like snap things over.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: It'd be gnarly.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was really crazy and very cold.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then I went to high school in South Eastern Idaho where I remember this sounds like a back in my day story.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: But being like at the bus stop at 645 in the morning or whatever.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Negative 10 outside, but with the windshield, it's technically like negative 30, which I don't know how to convert that into Celsius for you out of my house.
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've never been good at the conversion.
• 3:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I really, really fucking cold, like the kind of cold that just blows right through your bones a little bit.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Anyone who lives in on one of the great lakes, I think, can understand to a certain degree.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I have questions for you both prepared, but we always welcome tangents, but just based on introductions, Frank, what's a character coordinator?
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: What is your job description look like?
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically, you get the script for whatever episodes coming up, and then you go through it and you see what characters that we've already designed that we can reuse, what characters need to be designed for that particular episode, and then it's hunting down reference, and then assigning to artists.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then once you get the work back running it by our lead designer, a million of a doll who's incredible, and then our Supervisor producer, Jay Casternera, we run it by them, get their approval, and then it goes up to Marvel to get final approval.
• 3:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Can I have your job?
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds really fine.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's I feel incredibly fortunate just to be on this and it's for somebody who's a huge comic fan since they were a kid just to be able to use this wealth and knowledge that I've been commanded in my head is is incredible to be able to like yeah we can pull this reference or we can try this this costume where you can do this instead I was going to say you must be having incredible fun this season with like the X-Force episode, X-Factor, the students at the school there were some deep cuts in there it's really cool.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: So next thing about this show in general is that we will take various episodes of every very storylines from the comics and then re-imme kind of combine them together and come up with something new.
• 4:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so for the students, be able to take students from various different generations and put them all together that's cool to see if that was a lot of fun.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to talk about some of the characters you may have thought for or that have surprised people most?
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And feel free to share if there were any the turn we're turned down as well.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: At least for the school setting, Marvel is not a fan of doop being at the school.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, but he was, he wasn't a school.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, but they just felt like yeah, yeah, do doesn't really blend in well.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I know if we've kicked out on the doop time for that unfortunately because I think doops who doesn't love doop.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think it's more it was nice.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had kind of a carpunchie.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just kind of run by the characters.
• 5:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they had some there specifically called out in the script like Monet.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: couldn't acquire a wing and then a Mark and Jill from which were kind of reimaginings but based off of the X-Men graphing novel with Chris Claremont and Brent Anderson.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is the X-Men God Loves Man kills story which is if you haven't read it before it's worth three but there are two very very minor characters in that book that are buttons that were pulled in.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: This plus Maggie from Marvel's like you guys are are pulling in some deep lower, which makes me so very happy It's the kind of a I don't know when I was a kid I would read comics like this and then want to go look all the characters up and figure out where they come from came from and what their history is where But to answer your question Frank, who doesn't like dupe me We found him we found a big dupe fan
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I guess what I would say is I was a little old when the series, the original series aired in the 90s.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I actually didn't think I had any nostalgia for all this.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I watched all of the Marvel Studios content.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I tuned in.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like I couldn't believe how nostalgic I felt when the opening credits came on.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I still do every single episode.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I almost get tears in my eyes when that theme starts.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And
• 6:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's the genius of Marvel is like it's not just pure nostalgia.
• 6:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the the utilization of nostalgia.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like they just you just have a way of making it so exciting.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's something about that opening that when it hit when you watch you just like all right.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, in the way it changes every episode two and just the lights you fresh each time.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I almost like that more than the rest of the show.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dad, that was one of the coolest ideas that they had for the show when they started working on the titles.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then for the season when they switched it to the X-ports one.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about this for a minute.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: For those of you, I mean, everybody knows the X-Men song from the 90s.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: But in the newer version, it's season one and two.
• 7:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: There have been a changing roster of which characters get name plates and like the ability to like showcase their powers on their logo for a few seconds.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's been changing from episode to episode.
• 7:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Who's idea was that?
• 7:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And how do you guys regulate which characters are featured in each episode?
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was our big boss, Brad Winterbomb.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's had the idea like, hey, let's, when are we changing the main titles to just be exports?
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, oh, hey, all right.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's do it.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was, you know, behind the gut and you're like, oh, man, do we have time to do this, but we, we went for it and it really paid off.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in terms of otherwise and regular episode, who's in there?
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: is basically who's mainly featured on that episode.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll try to keep track of, you know, if Wolverine's out of an episode, we'll remove him or we went and the first couple episodes were back in either in the wasteland, the future, or an H&E team in the past.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll focus on those character rosters that are in each respective time period.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: After seeing the one for X force, I was surprised you guys didn't do one for like the Wolverine's evil buddies episode with like Lady Death Strike and Sabre to thin everything.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: If in a world where we had the time and the budget we'd I think we would definitely play a morale more it's just it's just question if there's only sadly there's only so much time and so much money to go around you went to movie and answer voice in a world with it.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say to you that especially in the first season there is a sense that you are doing justice to the franchise with though because like the original again it was a Saturday morning cartoon there was a certain set of characters that never changed but like when night crawler or magneto is a team leader started showing up there's just this feeling like we're going to want up the original version of the show we're going to do this right this time like it was just very satisfying that's very cool thank you
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: we have to talk about that dangerous polarists.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're recording this everyone in late July.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So a few more episodes will be out before this releases.
• 8:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I think the show will wrap up, but as of this recording, the polarists episode was the last one.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was so pleasantly surprised to see her get the focus.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a wild choice when you already have a substantial cast of characters.
• 9:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it was looking to see who you could, I think the fun thing about the X-Men is that the cast can evolve and change, and that's always been a part of the comic series at all.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know at least for the OG series, the cast pretty much stayed intact.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one of the great things that I really enjoyed about us continuing the show is that we've really played into how the roster can change and very depending on what the needs are.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So being able to kind of bring in that crawler in.
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And not just as one off, but that he's actually sticking around.
• 9:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was so exciting in season one that he, that he filled in, especially after we lost Gambit, RIP or Kagan, Kagan King.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, speaking of those nameslates though, when Knight Crowler got one, and then forge got one this season, which is so fun as well.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was super excited that forge got one.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: That was great because it's I mean, it's like if you're so popper fan you know that you're going to be sticking around for a while If they ever show your home.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a set, you know that oh, we're going to show this character at home like all right The show's invested in this character.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: They built they built a home set for a much like us like we're going to give you a name plate.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be around for a while because We want to be able to reuse this as much as possible
• 10:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really enjoying the voice work for these character interactions just everybody's so happy to be there.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like I know by the scenes always On the different story somewhat.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Adam, it's your first time on the show.
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have you introduce yourself to everybody.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us a little about your upbringing, whatever you'd like to share, what a comic book means to you.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm gonna start with this story at T-Kaf.
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: I walked by Adam's booth, and there's a lot of booths, but Adam had some old 90 Spider-Man comic books in the mix of what he was selling with a bunch of other newer things.
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I paused and I was like, why are you selling like clone saga era, Spidey books?
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, these are the two Marvel books.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I wrote what I was a teenager.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Adam, I'm really excited for you to share your story of getting your marble work for our listeners as well.
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was really fun talking to you at Toronto.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'll start with up ringing.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll start at the beginning.
• 10:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in Mississauga, Canada, which is a suburb of Toronto, not far from where I am right now.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And from about third grade onwards, I've been obsessed with comic books more than most people are obsessed with anything.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: By the time I reached high school, I was reading literally dozens of comics every week, and I wanted my career in life to be writing comics.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so anytime I went to a con or read a magazine like wizard, I would want to figure out how to, how did people get into this?
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do I make that my career?
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually remember Dan Slot at a convention, talked about how he got into writing by through the Marvel internship program.
• 11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I immediately went home and I guess there was no Google at the time.
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember how I did this.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I called them and asked, how does the internship program work?
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I recall they fact me some stuff.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the gist of it was you needed to get school credits.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they had a high school version of the program and a college version.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: People usually came farther for college.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: was it was uncommon for high school kids to travel a long way to do this.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I was in 12th grade at the time.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I immediately, you know, gear started turning in my brain and I had family that lived near New York City on Staten Island.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just worked this out.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of a ballsy for a 17 year old kid, I guess, but like I talked to my relatives and confirmed that I could stay with them for a little bit and then I talked to my school's guidance office and confirmed that they would give me a little bit of credit, which would satisfy,
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: to check that box for Marvel.
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I just sent them an application.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the time I had like, I recently had a big letter published in a Punisher Ward Journal comic book.
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I showed them that.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a real fan.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I recall they said something like, you know, we've never had a high school student come all the way from Canada.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: let's do it.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I worked in the office for I think it was three months and then I got a three month extension over the summer.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I did six months total.
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is the age of like paper.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is, you know, the odd office might have had a little computer in it, but for the most part, you know, they had a bullpen doing paste up and I would open FedEx boxes and photocopy artwork and
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: This weekend, Monday, we had phones and paper.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was, it was exactly that.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, very old.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And anyway, I'll cut for the chase.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I worked in an X-Men office for a bit, and then I worked in a Spider-Man office for a bit.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And while I was there, I kept showing them that, hey, I'm a writer.
• 13:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can write, but you got to slow down and tell us about your work in the X-Men office as an intern.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, I guess that matters.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at the time Marvel was under the five editor and chief group structure.
• 13:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Tom de Falco had finished and now there were five editors in chief and the editor and chief overseeing Xman books was Bob Harris and then each and each line of books had like a little logo specific apartment that was on the cover of each one.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: There was like a whole client and a hero's line and an Xman line.
• 13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bob Harris was overseeing it, and I remember I worked in the office with Lisa Patrick and Suzanne Gaffney, who between the two of them, I recall edited X caliber X force X man maybe cable was in there, so it was kind of like the sort of second here, you know, not the X men books, but all of the incillary X books.
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was amazing.
• 14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember Jeff Loeb was working for that office at the time Adam Polina, Larry Strom, and did some work.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would get some interaction with like all these people.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like I would see their fresh pages come in.
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was right after age of apocalypse, if I remember correctly, X man was in that period where they actually continued X man.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Main Marvel universe.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: First seven.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good issues that title.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember a memory I have is that I found out that Jeff Loeb wrote team wolf during this time.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: He also wrote the movie Commando.
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember I was a huge team wolf and even more than I was like a cable and X-horseman.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I like I sent my VHS of team wolf and dot it autograph by Jeff Loeb VFX.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're so sorry.
• 14:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are, we are a similar agent.
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: This was just a few years before I who was also at Balzy, Shikid got my job writing on the Marvel Handbooks line.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, also kind of just making myself available.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you're there as an intern you're moving from off-stoffice and then you let them know, hey, I'd like to write some stories too.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I remember they didn't really want to hear that.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of had to do it indirectly.
• 15:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I remember what I would do was like there would be scripts and pencil pages at various stages of completion like all over the place so I remember the first thing I can remember doing was there was an issue of spiderman unlimited where I had the plot and I had the pencil pages the next step in the process would be for the actual writer to script it.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember just for fun, I brought it home and scripted it myself.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I just brought it in and mentioned to the editor I'll just for fun.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I scripted this and they did not buy my script or anything.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I would just do things like that as a way of showing like, hey, look, I can, I can produce something that looks like the scripts you're buying from your writers and can.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was so that in the spider office was where the stuff happened for me, where the most exciting stuff happened.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was working in the office with Eric Fein, who at the time was writing spectacular Spider-Man.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, he was editing spectacular Spider-Man, which was jammed to Madison, Salbi Semma and Bilsen Kevich, which was a really cool combination.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was also editing web and Spider-Man unlimited.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Sarah Mossoff was in the same office.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she edited special projects as I recall, so like trades and many series, like Spider-Man the last years.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this was in the middle of the clone saga.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bob Boodyanski was the group
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: editor-in-chief of Spider-Man at this time.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so Adam has two published credits at Marvel.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of them is in Spider-Man Unlimited, the backup story, where you get to write over self-use demos pencils, which is what a cool thing to put on your resume, my friend.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: There is a dual storytelling approach.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: One man is getting ready for work as Peter Parker does the same, but the other guy has to go commit crimes to survive and ends up in jail at the end with Peter getting to go home at the end.
• 16:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's almost kind of a curbucyxtile story where we look at the lens from a couple of different angles.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: The way the panel's line up is smart and very fun.
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a child that has one of the most horrifying clowns I have ever seen in a wall painting just above his crib.
• 17:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this child clearly turned out to be a serial killer.
• 17:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we also get the joke, uh, there's some criminals hanging out and one says, okay, you're in a room with Saddam who's saying, Moomer cut off and, uh, excuse me, and Captain America, you got a gun with only two bullets, what do you do?
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the other guy says, uh, shoot cap twice to make sure he's dead.
• 17:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 17:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us about this first story.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that was the first one I sold.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember they said, hey, if you want to write a few pitches, we'll look at them.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went home and I think I wrote 10.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in that 10, we're both of the stories that were eventually published.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That first story was the first one that they bought.
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I can't even convey how over the moon cloud nine, I was when this all happened.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like this, it's, it was, it just absolutely blew my mind.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the greatest things that happened to me in my life when when Eric said they were going to
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: they'd like to do the story and so we originally decided it would be an eight page story.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's actually 10 in the finished book and so I wrote it up as like an eight page plot and gave it to you.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think I wrote you know panel breakdowns as well.
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote it in quite a bit of detail, though not script because Marvel method you read the script later and I gave that submitted that to Eric and I think it was after I had gone home.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my internship ended.
• 18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was I think it was
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went home and then a lot happened after I'd gone home.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We would be faxing back and forth.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would have to use a fax machine at my father's office.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was the only way I could communicate with the editors at Marvel.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And eventually they told me, hey, we're going to get sell.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You sent me to do this.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, I was just blown away.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like Eric and I had a really nice report by the way.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I have had no contact with him for the last 20 something years.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's unreachable as far as I know.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: If he's out there and he hears this, I would love to say hello to Eric Fine.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but he was super nice to me and I can only take it as an act of generosity that he got sell you some on the story.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I heard that Sal was going to extend it to ten pages because he wanted to want it to, wanted to draw it out a little bit.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember getting the pages back and it was my first time ever seeing my, my ideas illustrated and I was just blown away by that.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I had to script it.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I got, I actually got the pencils facts to me.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I took a
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was a dot matrix printer at the time, but it was in a, you know, relatively primitive word processing app facts this all back so numbered, numbered, sharpie balloons and and like a numbered script page by page they they took that away and lettered it and and I remember it came out around Christmas of that year and it was just a mind blowing thing to have happened and I have to say like you mentioned that joke about the, the Captain America getting stuck twice like.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, like, I can say, I think I'd say for me to say this 30 years after the fact, but like, it's pretty good.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I, I'm surprised, 17 year old me did such a good job.
• 19:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a big deal.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think every comics creator has that feeling of like you, you see the announcement, you see the book come out.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next week, there's another 100 books and then the 100, the next, there's this feeling of always having to fight for the next thing.
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the people often lose sight of the accomplishments.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a big deal that this is out there.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: The second one that you published is in the Spider-Man Holiday Special, which is Willy Lumpkin visiting the grave of May Parker.
• 20:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: They had a deer friendship and he's grieving her a little bit.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, May was not actually dead.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a soap opera star that agreed to die in her place.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: continuity being what it is.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is a fun early announcement for those that have been listening.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm doing a big ant may tribute month at the end of the year.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to close out 2026 on Gray Mulligan Lane celebrating May Parker on an X-Men podcast.
• 20:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So be prepared for that journey.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Adam, do you want to talk about your fun, Willie Lumpkin story?
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's actually more to that one than you might even expect.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a crazy thing.
• 20:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Antme, Antme, was really dead at that point in time.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a beautiful, amazing spider-man 400.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's even though it's in the midst of the clone saga, which is controversial.
• 20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So beautiful, very sad issue in which Antme dies, written by Jam, Dematis, drawn by Mark Bagley.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, that had just recently happened.
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I pitched a story that was related to that, but the other thing was my own grandfather had just recently died.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was the year before I went on this trip and did the Marvel thing.
• 21:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my idea was, oh, and the other thing is in the last a few years earlier in amazing Spider-Man.
• 21:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: They had been doing a story.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was David McLeanian Eric Larson.
• 21:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're doing a story where Willy Lumpkin, the fantastic force mailman, was dating Aunt May.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it kind of just drifted away.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never came back to that.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: They never, they never said that it ended or that it continued to stop to it.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: terrible for each other.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So because of my recent life experience, I thought it would be interesting to write the story where what happens to May's partner, now that May's dead, we hadn't seen it addressed in the comics up to that point.
• 21:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what happens in this story, it's only a six-page story drawn by Mike Manley, is Willy Lumpkin meets my grandmother.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she's actually named, it says both her first and last name in the story, it looks like her.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she mentions my grandfather's name as well.
• 22:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, she's at my grandfather's grave in Willy Lumpkin is at May's grave.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by the end of the story, they find they have something in common and they walk off together and maybe Willy gets to have another shot at a new relationship.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the story I'm just told was, hey, everybody, remember that time?
• 22:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I let my grandma hook up with Willy Lumpkin in a comics.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually there's a there's a there's a series called 1985 that Mark Miller did which in a way does a similar thing although much more explicitly which is like I put my grandmother in the Marvel universe and she's you know she's passed away now, but I guess he's an official Marvel universe character 16 at this point.
• 22:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here is a fun fact in my weird resume back when I worked for Marvel.
• 22:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I did some more creative writing for special projects Marvel launched a line of postage stamps in the early 2000s and I got to write all of the content that appeared on the back of the postage stamps that sold in the post office from the perspective of Willy Lumpkin.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's my little cool through line.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I got this one of the coolest little nerdy things I did while I was at Marvel.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Frank.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you a Saber tooth fan?
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is Saber tooth month on Green Walk and Lane.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess who isn't, you know, I mean, you already asked me this about dude.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's Saber tooth, you know, there's that fine line.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, where words like he's enjoyable, like, I mean, certainly his first appearances and stuff.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, especially with the jumper and artists, but it's such you in to see that.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there are some parts where what's the Sabritooth and Wolverine kind of mythology was being built out where it kind of gets a little, like a little goes a long way for me on some points with him.
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you're one of those like, there's too many Wolverine backstory guys.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: The continuity gets murky.
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you love about Sabritooth though?
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, certainly his viciousness.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was a, I was a, I enjoyed that before we, we find out that he was connected to Wolverine at all.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when he first shows up in the iron fist stuff and even in power, and iron fist, it's cool to just see this really crazy dangerous character.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then even when he crosses over into mutant mask or stuff over an expert, you're like,
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay, this is really cool.
• 24:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then as storylines kind of get going on and then being convoluted, it got a little less interesting.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then an age of apocalypse, I did find them enjoy a little.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you've got a much like me.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: You've got a handbook braid.
• 24:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like you've been able to track this character across time and genres.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think most X-Men fans either know him from the cartoon or the movie or Wolverine comics or like a certain story, maybe even the more locked massacre.
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: But a lot of X-Men fans might assume
• 24:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam, do you remember your first exposure to the character Saber Tooth?
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it must have been during the period.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm similar to Frank, where I lost track of it when things got really convoluted in a lot of Wolverine's origins started to get explored again and again.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like I remember Wolverine and Saber Tooth fighting, I think it was in the more lock tunnels.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: during the mutant massacre.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were teasing the idea that there was some connection between the two, but at this point you knew hardly anything about either character.
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a little bit nostalgic for that period.
• 25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was reading the Xbox heavily like when they were giving everyone solo titles.
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So like I remember Saber Tuse got a solo title.
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think it was drawn by Mark.
• 25:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Texas era, I can't remember who wrote it.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like that was the beginning of the over exposure like to be honest, I don't even remember what happened in that series.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just remember that we were going to get a lot of saber cues at that point.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to be doing the trial or the academic panel around saber two at the end of the month.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So everybody stay tuned.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We always have the big and more academic bend.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I like to do these setup episodes where we start to explore characters in ways that I won't cover in the trials.
• 25:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's the mid-1970s, Kung Fu movies are everywhere, and Sabertooth is a Kung Fu villain.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: From the very beginning, you have to think back to like karate kid, which is a movie that a lot of Americans are going to be more familiar with, but Jackie Chan.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: But in the 1970s, there were
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So many Kung Fu movies done in both Japan that had made it huge in America and also kind of American versions.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's alongside the Blacksploitation era of B movies where there's just a lot of like larger than life villains.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: So much that was happening in Luke Cage comics for example, we're related to Blacksploitation.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we have Iron Fist over here on the side.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: created by Claremonton Burn, we're going to talk more about this creation and just a moment.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then when the two books mix together, we've got Blacksploitation and Kung Fu with Power Man and Iron Fist as they're navigating through both worlds, which is a really interesting thing to consider.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: When we think of Kung Fu movies or Saber Tooth as a Kung Fu villain, does that work in your brain and do you like any movies from this era?
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It definitely works for me and I was actually surprised like just reading the issue.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: How well Saber-toothed blends with those iron fist stories and how he he it does feel true to the character as we still know him today Even in that first appearance and actually as preparation for this I read the entire burn clearmont run Because I've never read it before and I thought this is something I should have read.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not if it holds up.
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's pretty good the right Yeah
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I'm not a massive kung fu guy like I'm familiar with the conventions of it and everything you just explained resonates with me.
• 27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I do think there's like a certain charm to like white blonde dude in the world of kung fu, the white blonde Marvel kung fu hero, but can't like I've, you know, I've never seen enter the dragons.
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm struggling to think of like what my favorite Kung Fu movie is.
• 27:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go watch enter the dragon after this and then picture a couple of these iron fist villains or power man villains in their place.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want another really fun one from this era just that kind of captures this energy, it's wildly offensive a few times, but there's an old movie called Black Mama White Mama about two women escaping from prison who are chained together.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a orblacula.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Blackula is also a three
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: The amazing flex PlayStation film, but picture saber tooth and this light like a little overacted and it'll be movie, but wearing furs and it's giving a lot of like pimp energy.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, Frank, are you a kung fu movie fan?
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Jackie Chan is the best.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's whether it's like you're watching like Drunk and Master, Drunk and Master 2, anything that he
• 28:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I, martial art comics have always been something to me.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think what you want is a readers, you want to get that feeling that you're getting when you're watching the movies, so you appreciate the artists that can do great, fight choreography, because you really want to see those moves that you kind of are familiar with, or you've seen in the movies, kind of translate into the comics.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought burned it a good job.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is well, too.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even more so like more current day of like met fraction of David, I'll have when they did that stuff.
• 28:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Marvel was tossing a lot of shit at the wall of the 70s.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Some of the characters that we see that have lasted, like machine man and man thing come from entirely different genres on their own, but there were a lot of kung fu comics ranging from the sons of the tiger to the white tiger features.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot going on, but IronFist is kind of the one that has stuff.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so the creation of IronFist draws inspiration from Bill Everett's Golden Age superhero, amazing man.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Go look this guy up.
• 29:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was created in 1939 the same year as Superman.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everett designed amazing man based on the novel Lost Horizon, which featured the remote paradise of Shangri-La in the Himalayas.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So similar to Iron Fist, amazing man was trained by monks and faced trials to acquire superpowers in a lost city into bet.
• 29:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in order to exploit the ascension of the kung fu film genre in the 70s, Roy Thomas now envisioned Iron Fist,
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: As their newest martial arts hero being directly inspired by the film King Boxer, aka the five fingers of death, go look this one up, it's not one that I've seen, but it is on my list now.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thomas invited Gil came to co-create the new hero with him, came proposed to replicate amazing man's origin, which Thomas agreed with by including additional adaptation.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we see this in Marvel premiere number 15, which features IronFist for the first time in 1974, one year after Bill Everett died.
• 30:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So now we have the IronFist volume one, moving through issue 15, before the book gets canceled.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And again, it's running concurrently to power man, Ms. Marvel, and other comics.
• 30:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the first issue does give a dedication from Thomas and Kane to Bill Everett's memory, which is a lovely thing to see.
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, absolutely.
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one thing back for that, even though I was only 15 issues, boy, I mean, that was back in the days when they're doing like series of do like, by monthly some titles were Uh, so I can't imagine I'm going to wait two months between issues for these back in a day.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that would run too much, but yes, iron fist everything about him.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just enjoy the
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: costume, so if I'm all the big huge collar, the tattoo, everything about it.
• 30:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we got the Ninja Turtle, like Bandana thing, but with those long, like flowing tassels behind, like the Ninja Turtle masks give, we've got that kind of lower cut with the tattoo on the chest, which is wild.
• 30:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those like simple slip on shoes that pop the yellow collar.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a wild costume.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of unlike anything we've seen in comics to that time.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's it's incredible and as much as the early issues in that run are our solid boy when when burn and clear might come together boy that just comes and this is like burn just kind of still you know coming into his own and you can just it's it's just great just to see his maturation even from where he'd come from like I doing his independent work over Charlton to come over here
• 31:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Man, it's just, and then, for coming from your, like, taking the stuff into Marvel team up, Avengers, Piedessa for all, that's if you just see him really just coming into the, the incredible artist, and the amount of content that he was doing during those times was incredible as well.
• 31:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So clear months writing all kinds of shit, not just X-Men, one of them is this kung fu book.
• 31:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, would we see him right Wolverine?
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: In the solo title, in the early 80s, he bases it off of newer kung fu stories based in Japan, and so we see this he's a huge part of Wolverine's origin, think of Lady Death Strike, think of Ogun, there's so many parts, even his adopted daughter who lives in Japan, right?
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Saber Tooth was kind of what Claremont is creating Saber Tooth, alongside the time he's writing Wolverine, and soon he's going to pair the two of them together, but Saber Tooth gives that kung fu vibe kind of right from the beginning.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: which is an interesting thing to consider.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam, are you an iron fist fan?
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like iron fist when he's done well.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And luckily enough, there've been more than one great run.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard not to like a character when burns drawing him.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I agree, like the aesthetic of the character is super cool.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I also love that matte fraction at Brubaker, David Aha run.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was terrific as well.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I've read my share of like Luke Cage and iron fist comics, and I've watched the show as well.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't call myself like an iron fist super fan.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just like when they're, you know, I like John Bern comics.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like Christopher one kind of thing.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting content all the time, but one of the reasons I keep making the show is it makes me continue learning new things.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So another character that's huge in X-Men that is connected to this kind of samurai or Kung Fu world is the silver samurai.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a character for sure.
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to theme a month around some day, but I am an iron fist fan.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think he's a really interesting character.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's have the Johnburn conversation once.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: The Johnburn is someone who has set a lot of problematic things over the years and has treated a lot of marginalized communities in not very fair ways.
• 33:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also hear a lot of stories about how he is extremely difficult to work with one of the most difficult people in the business.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not ever planning on having John Bern on this show.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I've said from the beginning, I also enjoy his pencils very much.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of his work is incredible.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: We give ourselves permission to enjoy the work, but we can also call out the shit where we see it.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope it's all right to just say that all at once.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: A Frank or you a John Bern fan, it sounds like yes.
• 33:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am, and I understand, uh, yes, uh, and it is tough.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, how how do you reconcile stuff that the person may say or do with the art that they create?
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's, uh, yeah, it's certainly growing up without any knowledge of that.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you, I mean, that art just imprinted on my brain, him and George Perez just, uh, are like just the two artists that are just.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I see their work, it's just that feeling in the nostalgia, that feeling of just discovering comics for the first time, just the action and adventure that everything, those stories we contain, those feelings just come out to me.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's it's tough when you, as you grow up and you learn more about the the creators that you really enjoy that they're not always, you know, the, you know, coming off the pedestal.
• 34:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and being the, you know, the world being what it is these days.
• 34:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
• 34:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: The top two in mine and when I go back to early comics, Carmin in Fantino and Jean colon, like there is so seminal in my brain, but
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it is one thing like with like gene colon.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: What I love about comics is that it how you interpret them changes as you grow up.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So like gene colon as a kid, I was like, oh man, it's kind of sloppy and what's going on.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not as structured as other artists.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I was never really that I didn't really enjoy his work as it is.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was younger, but as I get older and you learn more and you appreciate more.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Boy, I really recognize just what I'm going to in cripple time.
• 35:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I do love that comics and gives you an opportunity to kind of come back and rediscover artists you may have initially dismissed as a kid
• 35:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's so many, I mean, Jack Kirby got that, right?
• 35:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, we're gonna focus on in this episode only Saber Tooth's codename and real name Let's talk about this for just a minute.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Facts about Saber Tooth's.
• 35:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you guys were actual dinosaur kids I went to the library a tarp pit several years ago where they have some like real like preserved like Saber Tooth tigers and we've all seen the Ice Age movies
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: First of all, Saber-tooth tigers were not actually tigers.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were a species called Smilodon Fatalus, belonging to an separate branch of the cat family that deserves, excuse me, diverges from the ancestors of modern lions and tigers, millions of years earlier.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Saber-tooth, the name Smilodon, literally means knife or scalpel and tooth, right?
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Smile Otis is the root words.
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're canning teeth.
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: could reach nearly a foot long, upper canines of the largest species.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: It could be 12 inches, but there were different ones.
• 36:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: The visible portion outside the jaw was usually about 6 or 8 inches.
• 36:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: But those teeth were surprisingly fragile.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were not designed to crush bone, any bad strike could break the teeth.
• 36:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: They were more meant to attack, right?
• 36:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: These creatures probably killed with precision, not brute force.
• 36:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: They would wrestle prey to the ground with
• 36:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: bite to the animal to kill it.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, more surgeon than chainsaw, they're just, we're not especially strong, you know, kind of a normal bite for an animal their size.
• 36:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: They could open their mouths almost 120 degrees, build a little bit more like wrestlers, so think like thick shoulders, thick legs, broad chest, short tail, so more like a lion cross with a bear.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: They probably were not ambush predators, they probably would more hide and then attack.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: We also think of them hunting Ice Age animals, Bison, horses, mastodon, sloths.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, the Ice Age movie associations.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have seen some places, the Libreya Tarpitz, most prominently, where there have been over 2,000 individuals smiling at on skeletons in one place.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: The animals may have lived socially, they probably disappeared about 10,000 years ago, and they were, again, multiple species.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: They also were not the only saber-toothed cats out there.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's another creature just to narrow it down to one, the homotheraum which translates into simitar cat.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you want to go learn about another one.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me hear your thoughts on saber-toothed tigers and what you think, Victor Creed, let's talk about both his real name and his codename.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do we have these names for this character?
• 37:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, I'm not sure I'd given too much thought to saber-tooth tigers prior to this, but I've certainly seen them in museums and in movies and I mean first things first I think it's just a cool name like it's hard to name a superhero I know this from from my own work like that was the hardest thing is just thinking of like a title for the book frankly I think that's where it all started.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was like saber-tooth.
• 38:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's never been used before.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good one
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you're right that like certainly like even his look has elements of the saber tooth tiger there's like a bit of the shaggy hair and there's the orange color and there's the the teeth as part of his his outfit I think and you know obviously his own his own sharp teeth as well.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of costumes that have like a tooth necklace around the neck around his wrists or like a couple big teeth worn around the neck you get the fur and then you get those like really form fitting clothes that have like the tiger stripe patterns it's the brown and yellow kind of shades that he's going to blend into the background.
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll even go on a small tangent here.
• 38:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: The issue of iron fist after this has the X men strangely enough because at the time, Sabre II was obviously not an X men character.
• 38:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Wolverine is wearing that Sabre II's like costume.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's for the gang with costume.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm pretty old.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're going to get there in 2027 on my show to that imperial guard and to Wolverine taking the fan costume.
• 39:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that is a very saber to see costume as well and one thing that's crazy by the way is Iron fist is fighting Wolverine in the next issue and he says there's this guy reminds me of saber tooth I wonder if there's a connection between the two of them which is a crazy thing for Chris Claremont to have written the month after
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: after Saber 2's first appearance.
• 39:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it totally, a comic that does not have Saber 2's in it.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love a stupid name.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the vanisher is really tell-ford Porter, which is tell-e Porter, which is ridiculous.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But for Saber 2, the real name is Victor Creed.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Victor implying I'm the champion, Creed being like the doctrine that you put out there, right?
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Victor Creed is his name, Frank, what are your thoughts?
• 39:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think we all agree that San Francisco's all selling like Dennis Lidry.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we know that for a fact.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, thanks to Ice Age.
• 40:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's, I mean, the costume is cool.
• 40:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm part, I mean, I guess you're always partial to the character when you first see them.
• 40:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so my first introduction being Iron fist 14 of San Francisco is always love this costume.
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: More so maybe maybe then then the the more present they costume that he wears more.
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like more the orange and browns as opposed to like kind of like the yellow and browns that he's wearing later on.
• 40:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I mean, like, let's get dangerous claws.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Vishes a vicious predator, he's ready to go after those frails.
• 40:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at that, great.
• 40:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: In this, in this first appearance of Saber Tooth by Burn, we get a lot of close ups on his kind of animated face, but he has a scary face.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: It looks a little bit like meandered folly.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: The blonde is an interesting choice.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's the eyebrows and how bushy they are.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thick claws on his hands, but he appears to be the size of like a normal guy.
• 40:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: He looks to be about like six feet tall where in a few more years we're going to see say we're too looking more like juggernaut size a lot of the time, but at a certain point he becomes like the bigger stronger Wolverine, but here he is as a kung fu villain being named for a dinosaur and for reference all
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: All of the villains fighting like Luke Cage and Iron Fister in this time are named like Spear, Discus, Simitar, like they have all these crazy names and then go over to Master of Kung Fu and look at all of the villains that were fighting Shanchi, it's a wild journey and saber-tooth fits into this catalog of villains in the way that the silver samurai kind of does.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about it and I'm curious if Claire Martin, because the issue just not name him as a mutant, but we see him like his senses and things like that.
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really curious what Claire months, how much what Claire months' intentions were when he was creating, was he thinking of him as a mutant at that point when he was creating him?
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that something that?
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 41:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, Claire Montgomery created the under eye for a different horror story, and then brought them into one of his first X-Men comics.
• 41:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's about to create death bird for Ms. Marvel and, uh, and mystique in the same place.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's going to bring those over to the X-Men.
• 41:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Rogue gets created in the Avengers and later brought over.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of examples.
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, I don't know if he knew this character would be a mutant from the start, but he's clearly a very fun villain for Wolverine to fight.
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when we put together the marauders, he's the only established character.
• 42:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And all of the others are brand new.
• 42:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's look at this cover.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Iron fist 30 cents were on number 14.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have come through action in the mighty Marvel manner.
• 42:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: The iron fist logo is red and white.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I look at the little rivets on it.
• 42:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: They did this in Iron Man comics logo as well where it almost looks like it's like a riveted piece of construction.
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: White on red background.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: We got white snow, white doom.
• 42:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: And as always we got to ask why I got to be white.
• 42:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Savord's favorite is slashing at Iron Fist in the snow.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's saying your snowballine hero, your flame in fist means nothing now.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then introducing the savagery of there's a hyphen in the middle, which is shocking.
• 42:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Savord, tooth, and it looks all kind of shagged, like shagged, not shagged.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Jagged and bleed like with an exclamation point.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Frank, do you want to talk about iron fists powers?
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the coolest thing is that, you know, uh, he can turn his fist onto a thing of iron, which I was that was such a great phrase when they would do that.
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it was basically, uh, he summons all his, his, his G into his fist.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, he can tremendous power held within there.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: But he had to like kill a dragon to get it in like a press to chest up there.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I get the tattoo.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, if you want this great power, you've got to fight this enormous dragon pressure chest up against them, take the tattoo, you know, to forever be I branded onto your chest.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can turn your fist onto a thing of iron.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're lucky, you also get to be a white billionaire.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Daniel Rae is one of the richest people in the Marvel Universe.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: The daughters of the Dragon are a big part of this coming story, Colleen Wing, and Misty Knight have their own wild history.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Misty Knight, we've talked about being based on Pam Greer, a number of times, but they become the Kung Fu characters daughters of the Dragon.
• 43:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Misty Knight is dating Ironfest in this series, and is also Gene Greer's roommate if you remember through this era.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So there's connections.
• 43:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: which I love about that stuff.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like clarifying his little stable of characters and just entertaining him and that's just for somebody who loves Marvel Comics, that's just that you want to see that kind of shared universe kind of aspect to it.
• 44:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when you get to see just even for a moment like, oh, hey, Grace, the roommate, oh, that's really cool.
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You just get to see these kind of different fandom is kind of kind of a kind of a touch-based with each other.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really cool.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in Iron Fist series, he's been facing the threat of a guy named the Steel Serpent Davos his name.
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has a long history.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I could do a Patreon on this guy someday, perhaps, but he's kind of faded into the background of this story and is the person employing the mercenaries.
• 44:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: In his series, Iron Fist has faced Engar the Screamer, the Hil III plant people who I have done an episode on.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Master Kahn, who is just a wildly racist caricature of a Chinese villain, like worse than the Mandarin.
• 44:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have radion, the atomic man, cimitar, cumba la bay, chacatan, and the golden tigers.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not joking.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: The wrecking crew, boomerang has been here.
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And now we're jumping to iron fist number 14, which is from August 1977.
• 45:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: The title of this issue is Snowfire.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Chris Claremont, John Bern, Dan Green, Janice Cohen, who, if you didn't know, is the daughter of Saul Brotsky, a Gaspur Salatino, who, here's a fun fact about Gaspur.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: He once used the name writer's name of Lisa Peter Gregg, and those are the names of his three children, Lisa Peter and Gregg.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Lisa Peter Gregg, what's his name?
• 45:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that coaxies on the book with Archie Goodwin as the editor.
• 45:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have a really fascinating introduction of sabertooth with this costume, and the way open on this stanza.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You were born Daniel Rand, at the age of nine, your life was shattered by the murder of your father, and 19, you emerged from the mystic city of Conlon, Reborn, and the fires of a dragon's heart.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yours are the most finely honed martial arts skills in the world.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You were born Daniel Rand, you have since changed.
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Stanley presents iron fist, the living weapon.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we are in the Canadian Rockies, West of Calgary, Adam you have been over there.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have been to Calgary.
• 45:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you've been in the Rocky's west of Calgary.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have not.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've not my wife would like to go there.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I haven't don't really lovely.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take a trip and sit to a tour of the locations from iron fist 14.
• 46:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure she loves that.
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Watch out for white furry flesh eaters.
• 46:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wolverine always seems to run into whenever he goes into the north.
• 46:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Iron fist is not even wearing a jacket.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's hanging out with Colleen Wing.
• 46:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's two mercenaries named Joe and Sid who open fire there.
• 46:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: They've got these cool like slick black and purple looks.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're on these silver jet skis.
• 46:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a blizzard.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wing gets grazed by a bullet.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So while thinking about his own recent big old hug from this steel serpent, don't worry about it, Iron fist gets Colleen into a bear structure.
• 46:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Where it's like a weather station that's been stripped of the insulation.
• 46:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: They do a mind melt
• 46:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: of times when they were young, and Danny is sad about his recent breakup from Misty Night.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Colleen says, what did you expect?
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: You pushed her into a corner, forced her to choose between your friendship and her principles, and she walked out on you.
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look Danny, I know how you feel only too well, but this isn't con fun.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Women aren't objects or goddesses where people, with minds, feelings and spirits all our own.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam, let me hear your thoughts on these opening pages and the art in the snow.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a wild backdrop for an artist to have to draw in and burn does it beautifully.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, at this point, burn has been on the book for more than 14 issues because he did, I think one of the Marvel premiere run of Iron Fist as well.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But like right from the splash page like that could just be a poster And he's he does that a few times in this run just starts things off with just these pin-up shots like every that's the beauty of burn is like Everything is when he draws a character.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the definitive version of that character He's almost like an evolution of like John Ramita say where I don't know that he ever works specifically for Marvel's life in thing department, but he could have
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think these are beautiful pages.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, Theramont, he does it in the intro that you read, not in these narrations here, but he, a lot of Iron Fist is written in second person present tense narration.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He might switch to that by later in the issue.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, he does, he does when it goes into flashback.
• 48:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You start across the glace, and as you fight your way through the wind and snow.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like a really unique aspect of these stories as well as the way that it puts you in Iron Fist head.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, this is all over comics in the 70s.
• 48:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you go to the page where there's the flashback and it's showing iron fist in the steel serpent hugging.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and I'm just going to go cool queer for just a moment friends.
• 48:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: We do this on the show.
• 48:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's one single panel.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: The two men are glowing yellow surrounded by a red where there's like a white spluji thing in between them and their pelvis is repressed up together.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: where one of them, iron fist is thinking, heart of the dragon, what's he doing to me, my bodies on fire, my strength, draining away is if my very soul was being torn out of me.
• 48:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I know that this was not intended as queer, but friends, this is porn.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you just once in a while, we have to let it be what it is in the comics.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is my God.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fair.
• 48:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fair.
• 49:00
  [UNKNOWN]: Brace.
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Brace, do you have any opinions on the Iron Fist Misty Night relationship?
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of love them together.
• 49:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a really great combination.
• 49:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's Misty Night is not somebody that is like a damsel and distress that she's somebody, a force we reckon with on her own.
• 49:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I love that Eran and Colleen their own thing going and sometimes their adventures would intersect with, with Iron Fist and sometimes I wouldn't, but it wasn't where we'd go into
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: like, uh, Mr.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Needs saving again.
• 49:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here comes, here comes Iron Fist.
• 49:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: She was more than capable of taking care of business herself.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: She loves a hot man.
• 49:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And this is a very hot man.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm here for you, Misty.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Big fan.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, maybe worth noting, too, from what I've read, that is the first interracial relationship in a Marvel comic.
• 49:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I believe that's correct.
• 49:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and as it unfolds, which happens right around these issues, it's like, it's almost surprising like to read an period comic, like, and she's like, you know, just like, like Frank said a confident powerful black woman with her big Afro and you're almost like, are they really going to go for this?
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Does it happen this early in the end, Fist narrative and it does stay?
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's some stories in early power, man.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Iron fist comics, we're Luke Cage's dating a black woman.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Iron fist is dating a stingy night.
• 50:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they'll go out as a couple on a double date.
• 50:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's only one white guy at the table.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Captain America and the Falcon as well.
• 50:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Sam Wilson's dating a lot of really cool black women in this era.
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: A black lieth is getting published.
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, again, the black exploitation part is also really fun.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, power beds, uh, girlfriend harmony at that point with she was a bit much just like, okay, uh, Matt is compelling is misty night.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We need never talk about, uh, harmony young on my show, but we're going to talk about Reggie Clayborn in the new year, because we have some Black Goliath content coming up in champion.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we'll get there.
• 50:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, how some of these conversations that there's a bit.
• 50:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's some wild choices made in this area.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so a day later, there's a lot of weird scene changes.
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: They leave the weather cabin and then go to the Calgary International Airport to get a helicopter sent by Jiren Hogarth, but when they land at the Chile, a familiar supervillain is waiting.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Greetings, Miss Wing.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Rand, we've been expecting you.
• 51:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And Colleen's a savor tooth, you know me.
• 51:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Only bit of reputation, you're a free booter, a modern day pirate.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: For the right price, you rip off anything.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he says, quite true, in this case, I'm after lawyer Hogarth.
• 51:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: who stuck his nose where it doesn't belong and made my employee of very angry.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Don't you make me angry little lady?
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I may scratch your eyes out.
• 51:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's talk about this introduction and is Saber Tooth a pirate at him thoughts?
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good with that.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think it's, you know, considering the range of things Saber Tooth is done over the years, I don't know if there's much he hasn't done, of course, of all the stories.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll go and I'll tell Pirate, I think that's fine.
• 51:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He feels things, he gets into adventures,
• 51:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: journeys of the world.
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's an adventurer at this point.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So sure.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was willing to roll with that.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: His first supervillain team is the Marauders.
• 51:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pirate name.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, good point.
• 51:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So our heroes and Hogarth get captured.
• 52:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: They escape on snow cats the next morning.
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: They head back to the weather shack.
• 52:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Again, all these scene changes.
• 52:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure why we needed them.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: The mercenaries are right behind them.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: They comment on how its 80 degrees below zero with the wind chill, Rand and Wing end up capturing the mercenaries and then they steal their clothes and they go back to the villain base where Sabertooth just has this massive fucking golden helicopter.
• 52:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, they get back free all of Hogarth's women warriors don't worry about it.
• 52:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then if I are on the mercenaries working for Sabre Tooth, and we get one cool close up on his baby blue eye, and then it's Sabre Tooth versus Iron Fist.
• 52:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm skipping over stuff so we could focus on the Sabre Tooth centric stuff.
• 52:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of scene changes.
• 52:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: There are what I do love are the two mercenaries of top that are chasing Iron Fist and Colleen.
• 52:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: where they're like, no, no, no they're dead.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's too cold out here.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's just go back.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get that.
• 52:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got an image and I'd be tapping out as well to say they looked that enough.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and he's not wearing a coat.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's just got, you know, he's got this pop yellow collar bear chest.
• 53:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could be expecting to survive.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love when you like steal a super villain's clothes and just fits you perfectly.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, and I did like that they said one man and one woman this time to go around them of just conveniently for calling.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: So she has she had a costume as well.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: This like golden airship looks like something made out of like light.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 53:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a bizarre a bizarre design that giant helicopter at the base.
• 53:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it Saber Tooth or is it his a you know his employers like I think it's his employers he's supposed to put all the stuff back on the thing to get back to his employer who turns out to be the steel serpent, but we won't talk about that part of the story today because this does refer to is to complicated to sum up quickly.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do love the close-ups on Saber Tooth space.
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get lots of snarles and lots of like like just big close-ups.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's an interesting character.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so Saber Tooth says.
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're a superhero to boot, Bob.
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the biggest mistake you ever made.
• 53:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody here above, like, uh, it's beauty, Bob.
• 53:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because Saber Tooth never loses.
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: You got a name hero, man.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I always like to know who it is I'm killing.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And iron fist thinks, God's, he's as fast as I am.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: And those claws are razor sharp.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like a human, Saber Tooth tiger, the ultimate killing machine.
• 54:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Saber Tooth all power and speed.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has no combat technique.
• 54:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Saber Tooth says I'm in the mood for a good fight.
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Been a long time since I tangled with anyone
• 54:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam, let's talk about the spite scene.
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get all the slashes and scripts sounds here.
• 54:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we get our first bug.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I took note of that.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: The bug in the frail.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've heard anyone use either of those words except for Saber Tooth and Wolverine.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that was cool.
• 54:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny that the entire fight hinges on Iron Fist being completely blinded by the snow and the sun reflecting off of the snow.
• 54:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then he uses his cheat to hone in on where Saber Tooth is.
• 54:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure I fully bought that.
• 54:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was kind of a funny device to bring into their climactic flight scene.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so the title of the story is Snowblide.
• 54:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Snowblide, the girls blow up the copter, seem her tooth runs off into the snow with Danny right behind him, and have you ever been Snowblide?
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's happened to me before, not full blindness, but like it's like white sky, sun out reflecting off the snow.
• 55:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to go skiing, you don't have your goggles on, and everything goes white.
• 55:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a member of the Savage Land mutates named White Out, and this is her power.
• 55:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: She just makes Hugo, like, see White, that's it.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we get some one interesting panel where, uh, John Burn fades out the background behind Danny.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we get Iron Fist and then everything else is White.
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a
• 55:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: story device he's going to use in other comics later.
• 55:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He'll put full white pages in certain comics and I think there's even a gimmick issue of she-hulk where it's heard just like in white throughout the whole issue because that's all you can see is the reader.
• 55:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, there's that it's an FL flight six that is just snow snowbird.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm thinking of.
• 55:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's snowbird in the white.
• 55:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Lowe's it's great and I'm always curious especially Adam when you're when as a writer when you're kind of what is your line in terms of
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: give the artist the instruction like other is going to fight and let it all up to the to the artist account of pace it out or do you have do you give them some beats that you know you want to hit some specific moves.
• 56:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say maybe if I was like Chris Claremont or another another guy deep into my career I would I would take liberties because I'm sure burn will do better jobs than I would.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I actually usually describe exactly what I want to happen and then I tell the artist you go ahead and do it better.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I went to you to at least describe something and to not just say they fight for three pages.
• 56:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But on something like this, like I have to wonder, yeah, where did Claremont end and burn begin?
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I burn is just too talented to have followed a Claremont script word for word.
• 56:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think on a fight scene, surely he, the choreography was his.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: So iron fist is snowballing, but he's able to draw upon memories of his training in order to access his ability.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we see a literal flashback where one of his like sensei is saying, you have five physical senses, Daniel, a warrior must learn to use them all as he's blindfolding him and sending this kid out to fight warriors.
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's able to listen for Saber Tooth.
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a close-up of Saber Tooth's teeny tiny toes going shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh shhh
• 57:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: in the snow as he's moving quietly, and then iron fist gets to Kiyah Sajakim before defeating our supervillain with several deliciously placed punches.
• 57:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now Marvel was publishing Master of Kungfu during this time the Shang Chibuk, but they were also publishing a black and white magazine called Deadly Hands of Kungfu that would have some original character features in a lot of prose pieces and like training pieces to like teach kids how to practice meditation and karate
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is always fun, I'm sure as a reader in the 70s to see what you're learning, reading about on the magazines being used by your heroes.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Saber Tooth gets to say, no more games, Lil Man.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna cut you a cut you to pieces.
• 57:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Iron fist thinks about Saber Tooth's fighting strategy.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not thinking about this fight at all.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's fighting for a moment to moment trying to overwhelm me by sheer physical force.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the Saber Tooth Tiger, he can't comprehend anyone being his equal.
• 57:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know why this man knows that about his idea.
• 57:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: and when power isn't enough, he has nothing left to fall back on.
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Wrong saber tooth, you're cutting no one because the fight is over and you are finished.
• 58:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, so Steel Serpent ran Meachem or all involved in this.
• 58:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It follows up in the next issue.
• 58:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the next time we see Saber tooth is in power man iron fist number 66, where he's coming after misty night.
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So some interesting things.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, do we have thoughts on the conclusion of this story?
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get to see Danny rip his shirt open everyone and go shirtless in the snow.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: as much as we're supposed to be building up Saber Truth as a really intimidating figure.
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it kind of peed us out at the end where he's like, hey, what are you doing fighting me when you're can't see or even the last of the second panel, like, oh, no, as he's getting thrown to the ground, it kind of takes the, uh, way out of Saber Truth's sales as like some really badass super tough fighter.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh no!
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when they first start fighting in the snow, Sabertooth cuts the front of iron fist uniform and then cuts him down the back of the uniform.
• 58:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: So on this last page there's almost a hilarious panel of Sabertooth unconscious and just looking real stupid.
• 59:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: But Danny rips his shirt off and then we flip him around and you can see the slash marks on his back like he's bleeding.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this Sabertooth's claws are a real deal.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: The the use of claws and like Adam
• 59:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, for I said earlier that I feel like this does just as to the character and it does feel like the Saber to us we would come to know and love, but on the other hand to your point like if we had never seen him again, that also wouldn't have been that strange like he's he's defeated he's left in the snow and it's it's just cool that Claremont didn't burn although I guess I don't know who picked him up in our man in our office, maybe it wasn't Claremont, but it's cool that someone picked him up and used him again.
• 59:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so guffy.
• 59:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: That picked him up.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and in pairs, a person with a constrictor and their buddies in crime, which I was like, yeah, interesting choice.
• 59:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like why I've all the villains.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You could do it.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, I say for tooth and constrictor going to be buddies.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also read a thing that he, that Faber II's went by the name Slasher during that period of Carman and Iron Fist.
• 1:00:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then there's a single read of them, but it's got to be interesting.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a single issue where he puts like a panning hose mask over his face.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he's like killing women in the streets.
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes after Misty Knight.
• 1:00:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's a pretty scary, like serial killer story.
• 1:00:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: He goes very jacked the ripper.
• 1:00:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's really bonkers that they made that choice to go with him.
• 1:00:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like his, he's like, I need to murder or I need to feel all this.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's,
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like it's like something that's ever cared along with the character.
• 1:00:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like after this little bit that we get with in Pyramid Iron fist, it's just kind of dropped after that.
• 1:00:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of modern comics kind of from the 90s on where the supervillain is the one that we want to read most about.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, Joker gets his own series, and Sabre II gets his own series.
• 1:00:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of Sabre II with an Venom books from the 90s.
• 1:00:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Juggernaut and Green Goblin have a bunch of like featured stuff.
• 1:00:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: What do you guys think of Sabre II as a protagonist as we're wrapping up our thoughts on Victor Creed?
• 1:01:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: To me, it always comes down to creative teams.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm more a fan of creators than I am of characters sometimes.
• 1:01:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So like, I remember that Saber's book, because Mark Texera was drawing it being pretty good.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's no seven though.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I don't think I read the other six.
• 1:01:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that may be tells you what I think about it.
• 1:01:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just always think of him, despite the fact that that's not what he was in his first appearance.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think of him as like a Wolverine foil and a part of the Wolverine mythology.
• 1:01:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're covering two Saber 2 titles in the other episode issues this month.
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of them is Saber 2th the Mary Shelley overdrive, which is written by Dan Jolly.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Dan Jolly is my guest on that episode.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we'll be closing out with Saber 2th the Dead Don't Talk, which is a modern series of a time when Saber 2th was working as a kingpin enforcer, which is interesting.
• 1:01:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Frank, do you like Saber 2,000 protagonists?
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's tough.
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: As you mentioned, like you
• 1:01:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: characters that were really cool in their initial appearance, and then I understand they resonate with the fans to such a point where they're like, well, how can we keep making stuff we can't just have them be the bad guy all the time.
• 1:02:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, you know, my, my enjoyment of venom is as definitely waned.
• 1:02:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't resonate as well with that character.
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's something with Saber 2.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I felt like Age of Apocalypse gave a real shot in the arm to that character where they were able to do something different with that character in the sense where I think people wanted.
• 1:02:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Then saw that, it was like, oh, hey, yeah, there are some cool things we could do with Saber 2, but it was either like, hey, can we change them?
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: The main 616 Saber 2 to be more like that, which seems kind of weird.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so they kind of more often not just kind of default to him being the ruthless killer tormentor of Wolverine.
• 1:02:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to find you on your birthday.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just remind you how much you've started.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Day two for the trial, we're going to talk about the five ways to tell us the Abertooth story.
• 1:02:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of wild choices.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of them is the inverted hero, right?
• 1:02:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to take like the evil guy and give him a conscious and put him on the main team.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's kind of the baseline for evil in X-Men.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like the one irredemably you can never make him okay because of Silver Fox alone, which is a wild thing to consider on its own.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited about the content this month, I hope everybody's learning a lot and then over on the Patreon, we're featuring all tiger-themed X-Men adjacent characters this month.
• 1:03:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So watch for those.
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're closing out the month with Romulus.
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if Sabertooth is the bigger better Wolverine, Romulus is the bigger better Sabertooth.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So stay tuned for that conversation.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about what you guys are both doing as we are wrapping up and I'd love for you when you're ready to share where people can find you online and how they can support your work.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Adam, I got to purchase the first few issues of your incredible book mantle with the wonderful art by Gian Fernando.
• 1:03:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very like human realistic looking.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very interesting.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to tell everybody about the work you're doing in mantle and what brought you back to comics after all these years?
• 1:03:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I mean, since the Marvel experience I talked about earlier, I didn't make comics again for 30 years.
• 1:03:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I went to university and I got a job and eventually I got
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: married and had a kid and, you know, life just has a way of running away from you and also marveled declared bankruptcy shortly after I left.
• 1:04:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, a lot of time passed.
• 1:04:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Eventually, I came to be a much older guy and thought to myself, you know, this is what I had always wanted to do with my life.
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always wanted to write comics.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still think about it all the time.
• 1:04:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I finally felt like I had the the resources like a little bit of money and a little bit of time and I could put it into doing this project.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So so mantle is the story about a high school boy who's badly bullied and one day he finds a power glove in his dead father's closet and he lives in a world where superheroes exist, they don't care about him or his problems.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when he finds this power glove suddenly it's like, well, what do I do with this do I bring do I bring this weapon to high school do I use it against the bullies who've been threatening me and what what repercussions might come from that and so we put out two issues so far in the third issue is coming very soon and John Fernando is doing a great job on the artwork I've been really lucky to partner with him on this.
• 1:04:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Irma Canivila, who's actually done colored some Marvel books, including some X-Men books, is on colors.
• 1:04:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: If anyone wants to find me, they can go to AdamSaintangelocomics.com, which has my social links, and you can buy the comics there, digital or print, and you can find me on all the major social platforms, ex-Blue Sky Instagram under AdamSaintangelo.
• 1:05:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to check out the comics.
• 1:05:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to follow me and just hear me talk about comics in general on my on my socials.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have the third issue coming very soon.
• 1:05:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: They'll be a Kickstarter campaign for that around the time.
• 1:05:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: This this podcast comes out.
• 1:05:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very good.
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoyed these two books and it gave me and I say this in a beautiful way.
• 1:05:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: It gave me 90s nostalgia to like dark Hawk and sleep like sleep walker like that era of Marvel books where there is just like some new stuff being tossed at the wall in a really fun way.
• 1:05:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really enjoyed it Mattel was a very fun read and I'm looking forward to more.
• 1:05:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Adam, what was it like 30 years later coming back and getting those first pages in compared to like when you first do in your first story when you were 17?
• 1:05:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was still super exciting and magical like to see the writing brought to life.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a weird thing like to go back to like the high school experience like when you're doing this at 17 years old you you think that like you know who knows what the rest of life will bring me I thought I would do this my entire life I thought I would have been do I thought that would be my career and then just life takes the turn and some and.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so it felt just very satisfying to do it again, to see pages come back and to have that experience and remember what it was like.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in a way, because I've been thinking about comics nonstop through that entire 30 year period, it also just came very naturally more naturally than I might have expected to just pick up those pages and start scripting over them.
• 1:06:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I find that so inspiring though for real.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a somebody may say like, well, that time that ship is sailed, you know, it was a was fun dream to have and I love that you're like, no, no, we can still make this happen now and it's so cool.
• 1:06:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's either inspiring or midlife prices.
• 1:06:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
• 1:06:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you do.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can be true and Adam, you've got great energy.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love seeing happy people doing things they love.
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you're welcome here any time my friend and you've got a you've got a fan and a friend on this side.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll come back anytime.
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Frank, I would love to hear you talk a little bit about the onslaught of expectations we can expect for the remainder of season two of X-Men 97.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm taking a real gambit that there's some death involved.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We, as a, as a chance at the top or doing, we just got a little over halfway through the season.
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're coming towards the end game.
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's going to be some, you know, some people coming back.
• 1:07:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Which would be nice with Polaris episode ended with, I mean, it didn't say it's gambit, but they were trading cards everywhere.
• 1:07:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: But gambit is back as death for the horsemen of apocalypse.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, he's the head a little smirk at the end, you know, who knows kind of mischief that he's going to be having up his sleeve as he reunites with the X-Men.
• 1:07:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to see who the other horsemen are going to be.
• 1:07:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's going to be interesting.
• 1:07:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And are you currently working on season three or four?
• 1:07:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we are, uh, wrapping up season three, which is great.
• 1:07:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, just putting that up.
• 1:08:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, uh, crossing the T's that in the eyes on all that stuff.
• 1:08:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, yes, starting into season four for us, which is nice.
• 1:08:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's rad.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You have the coolest job in the whole world.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am extremely grateful of this team is incredible as mentioned yet, Sean on the show, he and Ryan Alvey are a production manager now, associate producer.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: They, their pitch was when I was cornered by this job as they wanted to create a team of people who were kind to each other and wanted to make a great show and seem too good to be true and every way they've delivered on that.
• 1:08:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is just a incredible team that allows you what they do and are kind of
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: a what a great way to be able to make make make a show.
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Talk about inspiring.
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's incredibly inspiring that you've been able to take your passion for Marvel and these characters and work in the at the top of the game on something like this.
• 1:08:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, it's if you as a kid and Adam's are sure you're reading comics and Chad, like you did think that you would would love to be able to work there.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I know you both have had the opportunity.
• 1:08:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for me, but much like yourself, Adam, I was like, uh,
• 1:09:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like for me, like I thought that ship had sailed.
• 1:09:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get never had the opportunity to ever work in Marvel.
• 1:09:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so to be able to come back later in life and have this opportunity, oh, I boy, you know, if I wanted to go back and tell kidn me, that's don't worry.
• 1:09:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to actually be able to work in Marvel.
• 1:09:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: What an awesome moment.
• 1:09:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Adam for you, what when you heard the news that Marvel is moving from New York to California, I mean, what was that, and it lowers your reaction to X. I know it's just like Marvel in New York could just so intrinsically lean.
• 1:09:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a little bit sad because I mean, especially like when they were at 387 Park Avenue sales, that's where I, that's where I worked and and even, you know, aside from me having worked there Marvel and like he said Marvel New York, you know, suitably like that's where the Marvel superheroes typically hang out.
• 1:09:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's a little sad, but at the same time, like I think the Marvel comics line could use a shot in the arm and.
• 1:09:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think what's going on on the studio side is incredible.
• 1:09:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if this creates greater synergy and better management, I think that's great.
• 1:09:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like so, you're here to see what comes from this.
• 1:09:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, at least for me, like knowing that they're, I would say to see them leave New York, but excited to come to California just for the chance like, oh, if they're here, maybe there's an opportunity to be able to actually work.
• 1:10:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's cool that we work at Marvel Studios, but to work at Marvel Comics.
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, that would be awesome.
• 1:10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm curious if you're all like in the same office or something, I'll be exciting time to see how this comes together.
• 1:10:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: If there's a big change, there's so much stress in the industry right now, but also there's a part of me that was like, oh, they haven't moved to California already.
• 1:10:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it kind of just makes sense.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It always, I think, too.
• 1:10:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, everybody, where can people find you both online if they would like to?
• 1:10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, you can find me on all the socials at, uh, at Happy Go Jackie.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for me, I'm under my name Adam Santangelo.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you searched that on any of the social networks you'll find me.
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also Adam Santangelo Comics.com has links to my socials.
• 1:10:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Excellent.
• 1:10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Such a joy.
• 1:10:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I leave making this show every time with any combination of people with a giant smile on my face.
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So as always, thank you for the thoughtful discussion and the really fun better.
• 1:10:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: We will see you back here next week on Grandmonton Lane.
• 1:10:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Adam.
• 1:10:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Frank.
• 1:10:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 1:11:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 1:11:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 1:11:11
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• 1:11:18
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• 1:11:24
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• 1:11:26
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• 1:11:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.