Latest / Conservation Stories / Precision and Possibility: Drip Irrigation, Produced Water, and the Future of Farming with Claude Corcos

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Precision and Possibility: Drip Irrigation, Produced Water, and the Future of Farming with Claude Corcos · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:06
  Speaker B: I'm glad you're here today for another episode of Conservation Stories. Conservation Stories is a podcast brought to you by the Sand Hill Area Research Association, Sarah. And we are here to bring you information and education about things that happen on our side of the state and even into eastern New Mexico. And I'm excited to have with us today Claude Corcos, because Clyde works for Netafilm. And if you know anything about agriculture in semi arid regions, you're familiar with this organization, Netafilm, because they're the leaders in drip irrigation. And that's what I know you for. And I'm sure that a lot of people that are listening will know you for the same thing. I appreciate you giving us your time today.
• 0:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, happy to be here.
• 0:54
  Speaker B: So, Clark, give us a little bit about your background. Tell us a little bit about where you come from, who you are, and how you wound up where you are.
• 1:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, sure thing. So, I mean, I can go back as far as you want, but it may not be relevant. I suppose it doesn't hurt though. I grew up in upstate New York, in, in apple country in upstate New York, and then found my way into the irrigation industry a really, really long time ago, back in the 90s, and kind of got involved with drip irrigation and working in agriculture. So I've been doing that for a long time, you know, some since, I think, I don't know, late 90s I guess is when, when it started. So, so I've been doing it for a long time and then I, I've been working in drip irrigation. But most of our crops are high value fruits, nuts and vegetables. And so I've been on, I don't know, a couple thousand farms across the United States and Canada. Every, every crop that you go past in the grocery store that's in the fresh produce aisle, I've, I've been on that farm. Occasionally I find one or two crops where I haven't been on that farm, but for the most part I've been on every farm and excited to expand a little bit more.
• 1:59
  Speaker B: So tell us a little bit about Netafilm, about the company itself.
• 2:04
  Speaker A: So Netafim invented drip irrigation back in Israel in about 60 years ago. And so it was developed on a kibbutz in Israel. It was intended to grow crops in the desert on this brand new kibbutz that had to feed itself in a brand new country and so decided to scale this new technology of drip irrigation beyond their own kibbutz and beyond Israel and created what is now a global company 5,000 people, a billion dollars in revenue, active in virtually all countries where we grow food, which is most countries around the world.
• 2:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's. It's amazing. You know, what always amazes me is how much innovation comes out of Israel. Such a small place, but so much innovation.
• 2:46
  Speaker A: You know, they call it, they call themselves kind of innovation nation and it really is. Or startup nation. So there's a huge culture of innovation and, you know, creating new things. And their agriculture sector is huge in terms of innovation too.
• 3:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. You know, years ago in Texas, under one of our ag commissioners, we had a research station that was in collaboration with Israel and they, they did a lot of inventive things there, including creating building products unique and shading technology has been created out of that. And it's now like a museum or an educational center for kids. But there was some really interesting technology that came out of there, particular the building products things, I think, you know, using just what you. What was in that area. Buffalo Grass and Calichi.
• 3:42
  Speaker A: We've worked a lot with a number of the universities in Texas. Right. So we've worked a lot with Texas A and M, with Texas Tech and then the usda. I think they have a research lab up in Bushland. And so we've worked a lot over the years with those organizations and a lot of really great people that have been through those groups.
• 4:00
  Speaker B: So can you tell people a little bit about why drip irrigation. So think about, you know, there'll be farmers, of course, that are familiar with all of this, but there's also a good group of people that listen to us and don't have any connection. And we're actually. We have a new intern that's working on some irrigation blog post for us. So be interesting for you to tell us a little bit about why it has brought so much value, particularly to where we are.
• 4:27
  Speaker A: I'll start a little bit further back in the. You know, because, you know, most of our business is around fruits, nuts and vegetables. So you think about down south in the valley, you know, all of those crops down there, those are, those crops have been drip irrigated for 30, 40 years. And it's because they respond well. Plants respond really, really well to water being delivered directly to the roots. So I don't know if your listeners even know much about what drip irrigation is, but it's a network of emitters that put water out at a very precise rate right to the roots of every plant. So it's extremely efficient. So we don't waste any water. But also we can deliver water directly to the roots. We're not spraying it on top so there's no disease pressures because we're creating this humid canopy. And so we can also put nutrients in with the water so we can, we can deliver nutrients and water to the plants exactly when they want it. So the plants respond really well because it's never too wet, it's never too dry. It's always a perfect environment for them from a water and nutrient perspective. So they do really, really great. They grow fast, they produce really, really well. And the vegetable and fruit and nut producers adopted that a long time ago because they could see the value very quickly. Some 20, 25 years ago, we started experimenting with drip irrigation on other crops that aren't those higher value fruit, nut and vegetable crops. And you know, cotton in west Texas is a perfect example of one. And we've been active in cotton in west Texas for a long time. It's because I think everybody, most of your listeners will know that, you know, the Ogallal aquifer has been in decline for a long time. And as wells that have typically been more productive have, you know, they're just, they're not producing what they used to, what they used to produce in terms of water. You still want to irrigate 600 acres of cotton. The only way to do that is with drip irrigation because of the efficiency. So about 25 years ago or so, we started messing around in cotton and developing a solution that would work in cotton because, you know, it's. Drip irrigation is expensive if you have to replace it every year on vegetables. So we put it now down, you know, between 12 and 16 inches deep, and we just leave it there. So it's a permanent subsurface irrigation system that's in the ground for. Depending on, depending on how well a grower takes care of it between 10 and 20 years. I've heard of some that are longer, although we don't warrant that, of course. And so it's, it's in the ground and growers will just farm over the top of that. But they still get all the benefits of drip irrigation, which is that, you know, we're not wasting any water. So it's all of the water that's applied to the farm gets taken up by the crops, and we can still inject fertilizers with that, and we can give those crops the right amount of water at the time that they need it the most. You know, cotton, it's super, super important to time the water and so whether it's on or off. Right, right. And so we can control of that. We can take. We can control that through the drip system, and those growers end up both with water savings and yield increases. And so. So that's how drip irrigation kind of went from the vegetable market in South Texas to other crops in Texas.
• 7:45
  Speaker B: Yeah. When I'm thinking about, like, the timing of when. When that crop is getting stressed and needs that water, do you all have. Is there a mechanism inside that drip irrigation that lets the farmer know. Do we have technology that's connected to your equipment?
• 8:05
  Speaker A: So it's not actually inside the drip tubing, but there are soil moisture sensors that we put in the fields. And. And there are other things we can look at imagery, too. And so crop imagery that will tell us what the condition is of the crop, and then we know exactly what to do. So we know what the condition is of the crop. The growers are really good at knowing what cycle the crop is in. They all know that. And then we can use soil moisture sensors to kind of calibrate all of that. And then we know, okay, this is the. This is our. The cycle that the crop is in. We know we need to add water or. We know that it would be a bad idea to add water right now.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:40
  Speaker A: And.
• 8:40
  Speaker B: And people that are listening may be familiar. We. We talk a lot about NASA's, their Ag program, NASA Acres, the newer satellites that they're launching will be able to test at root level, the soil moisture at root level. They'll be able to read that. And so I'd be interesting to be able to have that combination. Another tool in the toolbox for a farmer to be able to have that information.
• 9:03
  Speaker A: Yep. And so we have a technology product which controls our irrigation system and the soil moisture sensors or imagery from satellite or from aircraft or from anything else that all gets incorporated in. So, you know, the government can look at both the imagery and then also the data from the soil was.
• 9:22
  Speaker B: Yeah. So in case people still think that farmers don't use technology, this is highly technical decisions and tools that help to make those very. Provide the data that makes those very great decisions.
• 9:35
  Speaker A: My first visit to NASA to try to figure out how we could work together was 15 years ago. So, yeah, it's. It's an extraordinary amount of technology that goes into agriculture, and farmers are using that every day.
• 9:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's so exciting to me because people are. I'm assuming farmers are looking at apps on their phone to collect some of this information to help make these decisions. I remember when we made that transition to where you could you know, check your pivot from your house and not have to go. And for people that don't understand the pressure that is on farmers in areas like this for that water to not ever not be on at the time it needs to be on, it's, it's immense. And so we haven't farmed in about 15 plus, maybe about 15 years. And my husband still has nightmares that he'll wake up and say, well, last night I dreamed that there was a pivot that I forgot about and I forgot to check it all summer long. And there was, you know, one, you know, a tip that was nozzled, that was clogged up. And so I just forgot also. And it's been 15 years and he's still stressing about checking the water because it makes so much difference that, that precision makes a lot of difference.
• 10:53
  Speaker C: Today's episode is brought to you by Evan Stone with Clear Rock Farm and Ranch, part of the Clear Rock Realty Group in Lubbock, Texas. Evan understands what west Texas land, agriculture and what it takes to buy and sell farms and ranches in our unique region. If you're ready to make your next move, trust someone who knows the lay of the land. Visit Evan at clearrockrealty.com serving Lubbock and the surrounding communities, Clear Rock Farms and Ranch, your partner on the plains.
• 11:26
  Speaker A: We work with farmers all over the world, right. But you know, some of them are in really, really hot dry areas and, and you know, when it's 110 degrees and the wind is blowing and if you don't get water on that crop within a couple of few days, you know, you've lost your entire investment. And farmers get, you know what they say they, farmers get about 50 chances a year to do their job well. 50 chances in a lifetime to do their job well. Right.
• 11:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's right.
• 11:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's what they get. And if you mess it up, you know, by missing an irrigation for just, you know, is to a week, you lost one of those chances.
• 12:01
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's exactly right. And, and especially where we are, where there's just so much, we're so much more vulnerable not just to the, the heat and the drought, but the wind and you know, then untimely hard rains, things like that. So it's, it's a lot of stress. Well, I, I'm curious, I'm seeing like, I know that our, I want to say like southern, the southern high plains, so west and south of Lubbock is, that's the area kind of where I'm from. And where I saw the adoption of drip irrigation, but I'm seeing, I see it moving north and I know a farmer that's north of Amarillo quite a ways that is converting from pivot irrigation to drip irrigation. Are y' all seeing that move in that northerly direction? Because cotton's moving that way because of the different genetics now.
• 12:57
  Speaker A: So certainly cotton, you know, the market for cotton for drip irrigation I think is pretty steady. And you know, the, you know, the conversion from, from other irrigation methods to drip irrigation is kind of been steady for, for a while. And yeah, we're definitely going to be moving geographically as cotton moves with new genetics. And also. So that is definitely happening. You know, they'll still get those yield benefits, right? They'll still get the water efficiency benefits. They'll still get. There's some cost reductions because we're really efficient with not just the water but also the fertilizer that's in there. So there's some fertilizer cost reductions because of the efficiency. So, so there's that. But then also as you go further north, we've been working in other crops as well. So you know, there have, there are a lot, there's a lot of drip irrigation that's not as a percentage of total acres, but you know, like, like it would be on cotton but under corn and soybean rotations. So you know, and that takes us even further north. Right. And we're doing some alfalfa drip irrigation under alfalfa now. So it's taking us. We even have drip irrigation systems under small grains up in Canada, in western Canada. So it is, yeah, it's moving further and further beyond kind of the historical.
• 14:13
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, and it really, you know, for people to understand the value of the amount, you know, of water, you wouldn't think that it would make that big of an impact, but it really does over decades. When you're talking about, you know, farming is like you were saying, you've got 50 chances. So you're really like, these are decade long projects. That's about this, about, that's about the speed ag moves in is decades. But I, I think that the value that it brings can't really be understated. We have, I'm sure you're, you're familiar with the equip program. But for people that aren't familiar, the Department of Agriculture identifies needs and practices that are helpful for conservation and then they help to cover some of the cost of that work for farmers. They'll cost share, they won't pay for all of it, but they will pay for a part of it. And really, the last year under the Inflation Reduction act, we had quite a bit of money that came in and really helped to cover a lot more because it is, those are expensive projects to cover, you know, that many acres that we have here to make those transitions. Those are expensive projects. And so before we might, you know, you might have, you know, 10 or 20 projects in a county and can fund one or two, you know, but they were able to fund quite a bit more. So I'm hoping that we'll see, you know, a return to some of that because of the value that it brings to our area. And it, it's not only, you know, that that money is so well spent, not just for the farmer, but for the people in the municipalities around where those farmers are.
• 15:56
  Speaker A: Well, you know, I think we're working on a farm bill that's been expired now for two years. And so I think everybody's really hopeful that we'll get a new farm bill here very shortly which has, which has good funding for some really important projects like water efficiency. And drip irrigation is just one of those water efficiency projects.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: What's, what's the next, what's the new things you guys are. Netfilm is under another, the umbrella of another company. And what's the, what's the next new innovation that's coming out?
• 16:24
  Speaker A: Well, okay, so there are always some smaller innovations, you know, some product development things that we're working on for, you know, particularly for our existing customers, give them more tools in the tool belt. But, you know, one of the reasons that we're talking is because there are some opportunities in using recycled water that's coming out of, that's, that's West Texas. And I don't know if you wanted to get into that just now.
• 16:45
  Speaker B: Love to. Yes.
• 16:46
  Speaker A: And so, so those are some of the, that's, that's one of the new things that we're working on. NetFM is. I'll go back in for just a second. Has built our business on working with farmers, working with the research community to try to figure out if drip irrigation is a good fit for this particular application. We've been doing it for 60 years and we're not going to stop doing it now. And so one of those is a conversation that led from a conversation you and I had when we were together earlier this year. And so looking at the suitability of water that's coming as produced water coming out of West Texas and the recycled content is that water after it's been recycled Suitable for irrigation. It is. And by the way, I, I have some of those answers. We'll get to that. The. If it is suitable for irrigation, you know, is drip irrigation the right. Is that the right approach, right. To, to use that for agricultural irrigation? So, so that's kind of one of the, the newer things that been working on. So what happened was we did take take a look at some of the water reports, right. So, so some of the, you know, there's a, there are after the recycle, after the water is recycled, you know, they sampled the water and sent us those water, the, the analysis reports. And we have a couple of people who are, they're truly water experts, like PhDs in water chemistry. And so we sent those water analysis reports to them and asked them for their opinion on suitability for irrigation. And I'd say that it was suitable. So it's suitable, although it was a little bit high ph. And so we would want to reduce the ph, which is very commonly done. It's, you know, water with high ph and groundwater all the time. So it's not an uncommon situation for us in drip irrigation or in other types of irrigation for that matter. So we would have to amend the water with a continuous injection of acid. There are lots of different options for that that we're familiar with. And so it's suitable for use in, in a drip irrigation system. So we got that confirmation. And so now the question is, you know, what is, you know, what might be the next steps for deploying the recycling technology? Because until the recycling technology is deployed, you know, we're, our interest is with the farmers and with irrigation. Right. We're not, we don't have any involvement in anything upstream of that. So if we can find a new source of water to help farmers irrigate efficiently, that's where we come in. And right now everything seems to be, everything indicates that, yeah, the water is clean enough to irrigation.
• 19:22
  Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, I don't know if you're from, if you've heard, but New Mexico, which is so ironic because where do we know what, what all the constituents are in this water? What, all of the, what's everything in this water? We know it because the University of New Mexico and Texas Tech have done all this research and so much of that information is housed on the website at the University of New Mexico, yet New Mexico, the government of Mexico says we don't know what's in this and we can't, we can't allow this to be used. What, what a shame. Just outright denial. Of the science that we do know, what's in it, and I mean in Texas Tech is that their equipment is unknown. Unknowns. I mean, they're looking for not just the things we know about, but the things that we don't know that we don't know.
• 20:13
  Speaker A: You know, we get water. We get the lab results from water analyses all the time for drip irrigation, right? So we get it from surface water, we get it from groundwater supplies, you know, and so we look at those lab tests all the time, you know, typically those lab tests. And, and you can do a test for drip irrigation, right, which tests some additional things in the water. But it's a test that's a page, page and a half long. And, and the tests that I saw were. I don't know, I think there was. I mean, it was. They were testing for things that, you know, I've never seen tested for before, you know, that we've never seen in water analysis, what we use for agriculture. So, I mean, I get it. I think it's a fair point. You don't know. They're the unknown. Unknowns. Right. And so if there's something in that water that we're not testing for, I don't know that. But, but based on, certainly the test results that I saw cover everything that we test for normally in, in, in drip irrigation and agriculture and a whole lot more stuff, but there are some unknown unknowns. I suppose that could be possible. But what I've seen so far is pretty good stuff.
• 21:20
  Speaker B: It's, it is just truly amazing the depth of research and that they've done. And, you know, I don't, I don't. I can't. I, I know that, you know, fossil fuels have, you know, and rightly so, they've done some bad things in the past, of course, and not, not everybody's great, but the folks that I'm talking to, the oil and gas industry that want to see this water used, they, they, they don't, they don't want hurt people. No, no one wants anyone to be hurt, you know, and you have this huge resource, I mean, to like new water. We would not have access to this water if we were not, if we did not have fossil fuels. This is a whole source of water that that industry is bringing to us. And to me, it's one of the most exciting opportunities in our region for. To be able to continue to do a lot of the things that we currently do grow and just the life that we live right now. So, yeah, I'm excited about. We've got A couple of three different farmers. And if anybody's listening to this that's interested in, you know, pursuing some type of research project on produced water, there are plenty of folks out there that are looking for agricultural producers that want to collaborate on research to get this water out into these crops.
• 22:51
  Speaker C: Out here on the Texas Plains, water is everything. And there's a resource that's as vital as it is fragile. Our Playa lakes. These lakes are nature's reservoir, catching rainwater to recharge our aquifer and provide lifelines for wildlife. But now they need our help. In collaboration with the Texas Playa Lakes Conservation Initiative and the Cargill Global Water Challenge, SARAH has started the Our Legacy is Tomorrow's Water initiative to inspire and work with landowners to restore and protect our Playa Lakes. Each playa we save helps secure a sustainable water future for the generations that will be coming after us. Whether it's improving soil health, restoring habitats, or recharging groundwater, we are committed to making a difference. Together, we can build a legacy that we can all be proud of. To learn how you can join in, visit the Playa Lakes Restoration Initiative page on the SARAH website. Let's keep Texas water flowing strong for the future. Visit sara-conservation.com.
• 24:00
  Speaker A: Part of the issue I think that we're going to have is the location of the water recycling of the produced water recycling facility and the nearest grower that might have already a drip irrigation system. So there's a little bit of matchmaking challenge that's going to be going on in geography because it's expensive to move water long distances. So we want to do. What we want to do is we want to find growers that are going to be close to where these plants are eventually built. So that way we don't have to nobody invest in expensive transmission.
• 24:29
  Speaker B: And the fun thing to me about that is this, that's the southern High Plains region where I'm from. Island. We have, you know, a lot, a lot of us have oil and gas on our land. You know, those pump jacks are there, and a lot of them are the older ones that are producing a lot of this water, you know, and so I think that the potential, the potential for that matchmaking is, is pretty easy. I think with that's what we've identified is like who would, who's. Who's close to a source that we could trial.
• 25:05
  Speaker A: Right? And so it's easy to put in a trial system of drip irrigation if somebody is interested in. In piloting. So I was just talking to a grower that I ran into. Not in your area of the world. It was a corn farmer in southern Illinois and he had been messing around with drip irrigation because he saw some of his neighbors had transitioned to drip and he wanted to try around, try to play around with it for a little bit. So we put it in a one acre system. And so it's not the most economical system on a breaker basis. Right. But it's only an acre of drip irrigation. So he wanted to play around with it. We put one in or our dealer put one in for him and he messed around with it for the past couple of years and now he's ready to scale up and he'll put in. I don't know what he'll. I don't know what he'll end up going with. He'll probably put in 160 acres at a time or something like that over the next couple of years and see what it looks like as he scales. So it is possible to start small irrigation. I have it at my house, you know, and so it's. And at the end of the day, it's the same components for, you know, some of the big farms that we do know. We just, we're just wrapping up a 3,300acre project that we did, you know, and so it's. But at the end of the day, it's all the same components. It's just scaled up or down.
• 26:18
  Speaker B: So let's talk about that for a minute because that's, that's. I had not, you know, everyone has, most all of us have lawn systems, right. Watering systems. And I know that ours, we only run ours at night, but I know that it's run in the morning because I see some of the runoff. And that, that, you know, is troubling to me. Someone who's like, you know, we should be conserving water. So what, what is one of the, one of the things that we've talked about doing just personally in our yard is converting from Bermuda grass back into, to a natural grass like buffalo or mix of, of natives with pollinators and things like that. And what does that look like with drip as far as seeding that goes like. I guess you kind of, you understand what I'm saying? Like keeping that seed wet because you got to keep that wet. Do you do some like over the top watering?
• 27:15
  Speaker A: We have a product, we have a special product that we use for in our landscape business because we do have a landscaping business too, and that has the drippers. The drippers are impregnated with a small amount of copper. And the copper prevents. It's just like you would use copper sulfate in agriculture, you know. And so it's. So basically the roots don't grow into the drippers. And so when you're putting drip irrigation underground, you have to be concerned, particularly if you have a permanent root structure system like grass. You're only putting it six inches deep. You're putting the. You're putting the drip tubing directly in the root zone. And the roots don't grow into the drip tubing and cleaning up. Cause they can do that. I just replaced my sewer last year because the roots clogged up my sewer line anyway, so we put copper in the tubing and then there's a grid of about 12 inches by 12 inches. You can water that and you can run it a long time. But I would recommend, because grass is going to be a forever crop, really, right. It's a permanent crop. If it were me, I put the drip tubing down for irrigation, But I'd establish it by having some sprinklers over the top for germination and perhaps cooling if you need to cool, you know. You know, depending on what time of the year you're planting.
• 28:28
  Speaker B: That is not something that I have ever thought of, nor have I ever heard anyone mention, you know, that issue. But it's probably because most people don't have drip here. But still, I think it would. The same principle would apply with just a regular lawn system, you know, growing in there. And that's exactly what would happen.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: So we do, like I say, you can scale it up or you can scale it down. It's all the same technology, right? And so when we take that same technology and put it 12 inches below, for example, a cotton crop, right. You know, you have the same question, how do you germinate cotton? Right? So how do you germinate cotton when you have the water that's now 12 inches deep instead of coming to you on the surface of the. On the surface. And so, so what do you do? You have to run the irrigation system for a long time so the water moves up. And there's some techniques that we do to. To help it move up. You know, the placement of the drip line relative to the rows is, of course, really critical. And it's also a little bit soil dependent. It's not going to be going to move up from 12 inches. As good on sandy soils as it will on, you know, siltier clay soils. And so clay soil, sometimes really it takes a long time too. So there are techniques and there's some learning that has to go along with that. And then the other one that I mentioned, if it's an annual root like cotton or corn or soybeans, we really don't have any issues with intrusion. We have a physical barrier in our drip tubing. It's a little. A physical barrier. So the roots don't grow in there very well. And it's an annual. Annual root. So it doesn't really impact. It's an issue for us in alfalfa because, you know, an alfalfa crop on drip, they typically get a couple extra years on alfalfa before they have to reseed. But, you know, but it's, you know, it'll be there. You know, the roots will be there five to seven years. And. And so we have to treat for that. So we'll. We'll treat that and kind of create a barrier around the dripper. But there's a, but there's a treatment we can do for that. We have to, we have to manage that.
• 30:26
  Speaker B: Well, it's. It's something that we've looked at not just for us, but we, we as an organization have kicked around the idea of trying to find ways to help either people convert or to encourage home builders to think about using alternative, not rocks and increasing the heat. But, you know, what we would think of as prairie grasses or native grasses, but, you know, encourage them to think also about using drip. That would. Even if we have Bermuda grass, just that conversion from the spray. Because you're not just talking about, like I mentioned, runoff, but we even talked about how much of that water evaporates, which is why the city wants people to be watering at night because you have less of that. It would be really interesting to run the numbers, like at my house, on my property, to say, like, this is how much we would estimate that water that we would save in runoff and evaporation.
• 31:32
  Speaker A: I mean, it all depends on, you know, when you're running sprinklers versus when you're running drip. Right. And the plants use the same. Ideally, the plants use the water, the same amount of water. Right. Regardless. So the question is how much do you have to apply to give the plants the water that they need, you know, and, you know, depending on when you run sprinklers, you're always going to have some evaporation, even running at night, because you have. You're putting water on all of the leaves, right? And that's. That water is going to go somewhere, it's going to evaporate. You evaporate a lot More if you run it during the day and you evaporate even more if you run it when it's windy. Right. So, and you know, it's almost always windy here.
• 32:10
  Speaker B: Right.
• 32:11
  Speaker A: So I've heard numbers around 30%. But again, it can go up and down from there of, you know, just the amount of water that you save just by not applying, you know, by not losing water to evaporation.
• 32:23
  Speaker B: And that doesn't even count the runoff.
• 32:25
  Speaker A: That doesn't even count the runoff. I'm just talking about evaporative losses. Wow. I mentioned earlier that I'm originally from New York, but I don't live there anymore. I live in Fresno, California. Right.
• 32:34
  Speaker B: We're a farm country, which is very similar to Lubbock.
• 32:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, we'll hit, we'll hit 105 every day, you know, for 30 days. We average 33 days over 100 degrees in the summer. I think our, you know, a couple years ago we hit 60 days over 100 degrees. You know, a typical summer day for us is 105, you know, you know, we don't get, we don't get the wind like you guys do. It's, you know, when we get wind, it's in, it's because we're in a big valley.
• 33:03
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: When we get the wind, it's because there's some sort of a storm that's coming in, quote, unquote storm. There's never a rain with our storms in the summer. But yes, get rain. We don't get rain hardly at all from, was it, you know, say May until November? We get virtually no rain. I mean, we can, but it'll be very unusual for us. We're, we're dry and, and so, yeah, I, I, we need to use drip irrigation because otherwise my personal water bill is higher. And the same thing applies as you scale that up to agriculture. You know, we've got about 4 million acres of drip irrigation in the state of California. Again, that's high value fruits, nuts and vegetables. But, you know, we're doing a lot of work on alfalfa because that's a big crop here. We're doing more on, on forage crops that are surrounding the dairies here. Corn, wheat and a little bit of. We can't afford to waste water just like, you know, as much as anybody else.
• 33:59
  Speaker B: Yes. You guys have some big challenges ahead for agriculture and water.
• 34:04
  Speaker A: We do. We have the, the groundwater law that's called Sigma, the Sustainable Groundwater Management Act. And so that is in process of, you know, kind of coming into enforcement. And so that that's going to dramatically change, you know, farmers ability to use groundwater here in the nest.
• 34:24
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I've heard, you know, estimates of the loss of million, a million acres when that's completely enforced. That's, you know, that's a lot.
• 34:34
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's a lot of food. It's a lot of food. And it's a lot of food that, you know, is only grown in California. We're in almond, pistachio and grape. Grape country and citrus. All of the, you know, when you go down the produce aisle, that's where I drive. Everywhere I drive, I just pass all that stuff. A good friend of mine just asked me to come over to our house this Sunday. We're going over to pick apricots because she has an apricot orchard and she wants us to pick apricots before she sells them to one of the companies that dehydrates apricots for her.
• 35:07
  Speaker B: Oh, my goodness. Wow. Yeah, I was there a couple of years ago and really enjoyed seeing all of those crops. Just, it's amazing the variety of things that are growing there. So we don't have that much diversity here, although we have more than a lot of people think. But. Well, this has been really interesting and I am excited that we're going to get to be able to do some trialing on some produced water.
• 35:37
  Speaker A: We, we would, we would like to do some additional. So what we're going to do next. Right. So we looked at the, the water analysis that was done, the last trial of one of these systems. And so that's all well and good, but we'd like to actually take the samples ourselves. And so we're going to do that. I think we. I'm not sure exactly when the date is, but in the next couple of months we're going to be taking some samples ourselves and send it to. We're not going to go through the whole thing of, you know, trying to identify every constituent. All we care about is can we use this for drip irrigation. And so we'll take those samples. We're going to send it to a few different labs because every lab gives you slightly different results. So we'll send it to a few different ones. And then, you know, again, you know, to the point that you made earlier, you know, we don't know what we're not testing for. Right. But what we, we want to know that our normal tests that if we put this water through a drip irrigation system, it will work through a drip irrigation system.
• 36:39
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 36:40
  Speaker A: So we'll do that in a few Months. In. In the next couple of months. And then once that's done, we have confidence that it'll work in irrigation. Yeah, the other, all the other people, like you're talking about, the state people don't know.
• 36:53
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 36:53
  Speaker A: They're dealing with all the other stuff.
• 36:55
  Speaker B: Well, we know, you know, it's not like we don't know what elements are in the earth. Like, we've identified all of the elements that are in the earth. So it's not like we're gonna suddenly find another element that no one knew was there. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, you know, it's easy to think, you know, that Unknown. Unknowns. What does that mean? Like that it's not. We. We already have that table of all of those elements. You know what I mean? And we know. We know what to look for. And to that point, we already have a Clean Drinking Water Act. We know what the law is to make it to the maximum safety. So I'm excited about it. I think it's going to be great.
• 37:39
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, again, from what we've seen, we're really excited. It's good, clean water already. And so we'll just do a little bit of a verification test to make sure that we get the same results that we were provided. And then once that's done, then it's just a question of where do these facilities go. Right. What farms are they on and what farms can we irrigate? And then matching the irrigation system to the crop. And another big part of it is educating the growers. And maybe we can spend a couple minutes on this tillery, if that's okay. Yes, because operating a drip irrigation system is pretty different than operating other types of irrigation systems. And you mentioned that, you know, I mean, you know, pivots are a really great technology, but running a drip irrigation system is going to be a different, you know, it's going to be a different experience. And there's a learning curve that's associated with that. So you want to make sure that, you know, the growers that we do work with eventually are, you know, we'll. We'll provide them with the training and education at. Right. Or they know how to use a drip irrigation system. They know how to, you know, do the, you know, though, because there's winter maintenance. Right. There's fall, there's shutdown procedures, there's spring startup procedures. You know, we are, you know, it's an underground system. Right. And so that means that there. That it's. We have to make sure that we stay ahead of things like insects or rodents that are underground. Right. So we have to stay ahead of that, which is all doable, but we just have to train people how to do it. Right. And so there's. There's that part of it, too. And then it's important that we choose the right growers, the ones that understand it and are willing to do it and adapt their practices, you know, go ahead and gain the knowledge and put those practices into place. Because there are some growers historically that have said, hey, I want all of the results, but I don't want any of the work.
• 39:32
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 39:33
  Speaker A: And it's not a lot of work, but it's different work.
• 39:36
  Speaker B: Well, if you're, you know, if you're running, if you have pivots and you're not doing routine maintenance on them, you're not going to be a good candidate for drip.
• 39:46
  Speaker A: Correct. Right. And there are those growers, and being in the irrigation industry, I can drive by those pivots and see them. And it's a little bit harder to see that in a drip field because it's underground. But you're absolutely right. Want to make sure that we're choosing the right growers that are, that are. That are going to make the entire system successful, which, which results in reduced water use and a successful crop.
• 40:10
  Speaker B: Right, right, exactly. Yeah, that's. That is a good point, too. And I think, you know, there's those folks that are the pioneer risk takers that, you know, their brains are probably already turning and think, you know, about the use of this water. And as it gets closer and closer, I'm, I'm excited because we're, we're in a state that's really open to the possibilities. Not just open, but willing to, you know, put the money behind making some of this, you know, research happen and putting this stuff to use. So it's a great, great place. It's a great time to be here.
• 40:47
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I know We've, we've got, I don't even know, maybe three people throughout the state of Texas. I can't remember. I know I can think of three right now, the top of my head. Maybe we have a fourth. But, you know, Texas is, you know, and I've been there, I don't know, a couple dozen times over the years. And it's great state and great people. So we look forward to the opportunity to work with more.
• 41:09
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 41:10
  Speaker A: People of the great state of Texas.
• 41:12
  Speaker B: Well, thanks for joining us, Claude. And I will. Will be sure to add in the show notes Maybe a link the. I'm sure there's a local dealer here that folks can reach out to if they're curious on their farms. I'm sure they probably already know all of that. But folks even that are in town that are building or going out into, you know, bidding out acreage or whatever, be a great idea for them to connect and see what the opportunities are for, especially as people are building on the south side side of Lubbock and running into less and less water. So, you know, it's a really great opportunity. But thank you for being here. I appreciate it.
• 41:53
  Speaker A: Well, I thank you very much, Tillery. If anybody wants to learn more, I'll throw out the the link, please do. To our website, which is netafim.com which is n E T A F I M and you can learn more there. And there's a Contact Us page and a dealer locator there so they could find a dealer. But we do have. Excellent. Some of our best dealers actually are in Texas, across the country. And so I'd be happy to share a link with you as well.
• 42:19
  Speaker B: We'll put that on there and then maybe we can meet again. We'll have an interesting update on progress on produced work.
• 42:26
  Speaker A: Perfect. All right.
• 42:27
  Speaker B: Well, thank you, friends, for joining us for another episode of Conservation Stories. We look forward to the next time. See you later.