Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Terror of the Autons (3/4)

Transcript

Talks to Paul Arthur about his choice of Terror of the Autons (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a grumpy pen knife for doing quicker.
• 0:39
  Doctor, Doctor Who and Joe Grant trapped in a police van, A face
• 0:47
  torn off, driven into a quarry with faceless killers.
• 0:51
  How will they escape this time? Paul, do you have the answer?
• 0:56
  Oh, yeah. Oh, do you know what?
• 0:59
  I was absolutely entranced there.
• 1:00
  That took me literally right back to watching Batman.
• 1:04
  That was pitch perfect there, Joe.
• 1:06
  That was that was great. You've got some.
• 1:07
  Yank. You know, hang on a minute.
• 1:09
  That was not. Steve not back to, you know, but
• 1:12
  that's been constantly repeated for years and years, isn't it?
• 1:14
  So like it was on telly when I was a kid.
• 1:16
  So who's? Your favorite?
• 1:18
  I absolutely love the Penguin. Yeah, Burgess Meredith, yeah,
• 1:22
  he's, you know, every single one of those Batman villains is
• 1:26
  absolutely brilliant. I think personally, though, is
• 1:29
  probably Frank Gordon, who played the Riddler.
• 1:31
  I think he's he, I don't know. He just really has something.
• 1:35
  He would have been brilliant in Doctor Who.
• 1:37
  I just any of those guys would have been great, Doctor.
• 1:39
  I know someone who's the Riddler was their sexual awakening, you
• 1:42
  know, I mean, it takes all sorts for it.
• 1:45
  OK. Yeah, Catwoman.
• 1:46
  I mean, I bet Catwoman Major looked twice.
• 1:49
  Holy moly, yeah. Absolutely wow.
• 1:53
  Yeah, indeed. Yeah.
• 1:54
  Kapow. Yeah.
• 1:57
  I'll tell you what, there is a stunt in this episode which I
• 2:02
  think ranks amongst one of the very best stunts ever in
• 2:06
  Classic. Who?
• 2:07
  You know the one on me? Don't.
• 2:08
  You. I know, yes, we we absolutely
• 2:11
  get action by havoc in this one, don't we?
• 2:13
  Yeah, it is just and chilling. He falls down that, falls down
• 2:19
  that Cliff, and then gets back up again and starts walking.
• 2:23
  Should we have Franklin on the commentary?
• 2:25
  Sorry, he goes with Franklin on the commentary.
• 2:27
  Richard Franklin. Did I?
• 2:29
  Listen. No.
• 2:30
  Not frankly. No.
• 2:30
  Sorry, Nicholas Courtney. Sorry.
• 2:33
  No, hang on it. No, it is.
• 2:35
  Frankly, it must be on the documentary.
• 2:37
  It's definitely Rich Franklin who goes about that amazing
• 2:40
  stunt. And then he goes, Yeah, he goes.
• 2:42
  I wish you'd just seen him lying on the floor there for a little
• 2:44
  while and then he got up. No, the fact that he just gets
• 2:48
  up is what makes it scary. Yeah, yeah, he, he instantly
• 2:52
  pops back up and yeah, you're 100% like that.
• 2:55
  It's just no, absolutely perfect, whether it's Franklin
• 2:59
  or or whether it's corny, they're completely wrong.
• 3:03
  Yeah, no, it's genuinely one of those kind of highlights of the
• 3:06
  era. Yeah, don't give actors any kind
• 3:08
  of creative control. Yeah, that's why TV is in the
• 3:10
  bog right now. Yeah, bloody actors.
• 3:15
  Well, you know, Paul, if you're ready to face the Autumns with
• 3:19
  their handguns blasting away in a quarry, I am.
• 3:23
  I Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely are.
• 3:25
  Yeah, I definitely am. Yes, yeah, absolutely.
• 3:29
  How beautiful you look with that pink light for suffusing on your
• 3:32
  face there. Oh.
• 3:34
  Yeah, yeah, I've got more of a, more of the.
• 3:37
  You know you're a gay disco. Absolutely.
• 3:39
  With my Mavellan haircut, yeah. Well, let's go Macho, Macho man
• 3:44
  got to count us in. OK, you're OK.
• 3:46
  Popping is IS1A2A3. Here we go.
• 3:52
  Starting off, we've got the LP, the Doctor Who theme tune.
• 3:56
  You'd. Be a great DJ, I think.
• 4:03
  What sort of music do you like? Oh, that's interesting.
• 4:07
  Do you know what I I find a really hard story about music I
• 4:10
  like because we were talking off camera about how it's easy to be
• 4:16
  really positive about things. I actually find that.
• 4:19
  So it will be if it actually we were talking about taking things
• 4:23
  personally when people like sort of talk badly about things you
• 4:27
  like. I just called him a cunt, you
• 4:30
  see. Sorry, I kind of missed I kind
• 4:32
  of messed all that up. But yeah, he was he was calling
• 4:34
  me a cunt for liking something but no music.
• 4:38
  I'm a big, I'm a big fan of of Prince is.
• 4:43
  Wonderful. Yeah, so, but a lot of just kind
• 4:47
  of general blog stuff really. Are you?
• 4:50
  The most boring answer you can possibly give is, Oh well, you
• 4:52
  know, I've got an eclectic mix. Yeah, yeah, they say they
• 4:56
  genuinely don't like anything, do they?
• 4:58
  So. Or they just sort of like pop,
• 5:00
  but they don't want to say it. Yeah, yeah.
• 5:03
  Yeah, I mean, you can look at my list.
• 5:04
  Celine's there, Bonnie, you know all of the.
• 5:07
  All of the all of the Butch Street music.
• 5:11
  I think the autumns are really scary in this thing.
• 5:15
  This, Yeah, really, the way that they're stalked through this
• 5:19
  quarry now. You got one of them with the
• 5:21
  full mask on with and you got one who's a human cop.
• 5:25
  Both were the hands down that is such an image in it and.
• 5:29
  I think Dudley's music here is great.
• 5:32
  I know he's doing electronic music in this story, but that's
• 5:35
  all. Yeah, really.
• 5:38
  It's so discordant, isn't? It, Yeah, everything about the
• 5:41
  score for this is really discordant, but it kind of like
• 5:44
  sets that kind of uneasiness, you know?
• 5:47
  Yeah, perfect. This was Katie Manning's first
• 5:50
  day on the job, this bit of location work.
• 5:51
  And look, she's already in a ditch with John Perky's hand
• 5:54
  over her mouth. What do I just start your new
• 5:58
  job? Oh.
• 5:59
  My God, the Brigadier gets an upgrade later.
• 6:02
  Do you remember that sports car he turned up in Green Death?
• 6:05
  What's he driving here? His staff car here is not very.
• 6:07
  Morris Minor or something? God knows.
• 6:11
  OK, so lookout man, it's autumn. Lovely.
• 6:17
  Just kind of standing there in the middle of the baddies are
• 6:20
  walking around with guns, guns out.
• 6:22
  Do you know the story about what was happening with Nicholas
• 6:25
  Courtney when this was shot? Oh, you must remind me.
• 6:30
  So he was suffering from. Depression wasn't.
• 6:34
  He and some serious anxiety attacks and he and so they had
• 6:38
  to rewrite scenes to take him out of the story.
• 6:42
  I mean, it just goes to show what a great actor he is because
• 6:45
  I can see no nerves in his performance whatsoever.
• 6:49
  Yeah, no, absolutely. I was quite surprised to hear
• 6:51
  that. Yeah, because the Brigadier is
• 6:53
  such an unflappable character, isn't he?
• 6:56
  Oh, here we go, this amazing stunt that is so important.
• 7:00
  God, it just doesn't stop. And because the stuntman is
• 7:03
  literally flailing about, you know it's not a dummy.
• 7:06
  Right. And not exactly.
• 7:07
  And he's got that mask on, so he can't see what the hell he's
• 7:09
  going. And even like, didn't you see
• 7:12
  his face right up against the windshield?
• 7:14
  But he hit him as well. Yeah, terrifying.
• 7:17
  Amazing. If I'd have been six years old
• 7:19
  watching this, I would have shipped my pants, I'm telling
• 7:22
  you now. Well, haven't give just give
• 7:25
  this whole era like a real polished and it like a lot of
• 7:29
  it's just excitement and adventure.
• 7:32
  Yeah, just so many great stunts and it does lend it a lot of
• 7:35
  excitement. Like, he's done a lot of small
• 7:38
  but very memorable set pieces. That's one of his show pieces
• 7:42
  there. And obviously the big bit at the
• 7:43
  end in the quarry, the big fight with the carnival men.
• 7:46
  Right. I I really think Barry Letts's
• 7:50
  direction is underrated. Like, he's he's not a Douglas
• 7:52
  Camfield. He's not a Graham Harper.
• 7:55
  I think he chooses his actors brilliantly.
• 7:58
  I think he knows how to shoot a scene, a majesty.
• 8:01
  We did Carnival of Monsters, for fuck's sake.
• 8:03
  Yeah, that was great. But a great performances and
• 8:08
  yeah, you're right. He he has a great cast here,
• 8:10
  doesn't he? So like all of the all of the
• 8:11
  the new principles that he introduces are just spot on,
• 8:14
  especially Doug, Doug Hollow, of course.
• 8:16
  But yeah, he he he's great. I think a lot of the location
• 8:21
  stuff is filmed really like like that stuff there in that action
• 8:25
  scene in the sandpit. But like, here, this, this is an
• 8:28
  exposition scene, but it's also being played for comedy because
• 8:32
  the Doctor walks away to the TARDIS, He goes on, Doctor, we
• 8:35
  can have your attention. And then he goes through his
• 8:37
  points and then the Doctor goes, oh, well, now you've reached
• 8:40
  that brilliant conclusion. Why don't you just get on with
• 8:43
  it? It's very funny.
• 8:46
  But I think you do have to be a good director to pull off
• 8:48
  comedy. Like good comedy.
• 8:50
  Yeah, yeah. Trust me.
• 8:52
  There is some bad comedy in Doctor Who.
• 8:53
  Well. Exactly.
• 8:54
  I mean, this is, this is character comedy, isn't it?
• 8:56
  This is the comedy comes through the characters rather than yeah,
• 9:00
  you're right. Rather than it being signed
• 9:01
  posters, though, this is just a funny moment, isn't it?
• 9:03
  So yeah. Not you're also.
• 9:05
  Oh, I am. You're finished with me now, I
• 9:07
  hope. He's an absolute dickhead the
• 9:10
  inside the rest of this episode. And as I said, I think before,
• 9:13
  like he's just absolutely rips into the Brigadier here, but
• 9:18
  like in a minute since time he's defending the Brigadier and
• 9:20
  ripping into Brown, Brown Rose and said.
• 9:22
  Is this the episode where he says military intelligence is a
• 9:25
  contradiction in terms? Oh, Mr. Brown Rose, I can't wait
• 9:31
  for that. Can we just quote all of it
• 9:33
  please? Somebody else said.
• 9:37
  Oh, he's, I mean, he basically is a conservative, isn't he?
• 9:41
  I mean, I know he's a liberal, but he is living the high life
• 9:44
  in the 70s. Well, I think this is this is
• 9:47
  the interesting thing now, right?
• 9:49
  So the, the I think the main criticism of Perlis Dr. Now is
• 9:52
  this the fact that he is quite irascible and he has a go at his
• 9:58
  companions all the time. I remember when I've sort of
• 10:00
  first joined fandom in the 90's, the main criticism of perp and
• 10:04
  he was criticized a lot in the 90s was the fact that he's part
• 10:07
  of the institution, he's part of the establishment.
• 10:09
  You know, he's he's he's too authoritarian.
• 10:12
  They weren't having to go with him for having a good.
• 10:14
  Issue with that, I don't have any issue with that at all.
• 10:17
  Like he he has to establish himself, otherwise what's he
• 10:20
  going to do? Well, exactly.
• 10:22
  I always kind of think of the doctor as being the kind of guy
• 10:24
  like, you know, he talks about being in the club with tubby
• 10:27
  rodents and stuff. I just think of him as being
• 10:29
  that kind of guy who could be in any social situation.
• 10:32
  So he will hang out with the toffs.
• 10:34
  And you're right, he's he's stuck on Earth, so he needs to
• 10:38
  position himself with the high and mighty.
• 10:40
  In the comics and in the Paul Marsburg City writes, he's got
• 10:45
  this fabulous mansion now at the country, but he goes, you know,
• 10:49
  there's a lot of the adventures start there.
• 10:51
  Come back to my mansion and we'll talk.
• 10:54
  It's great. Oh, this is great.
• 10:57
  What's wrong with being childish?
• 10:58
  I like being childish. I like being childish.
• 11:01
  Did you ever say a minute ago, Rick, that's the joke?
• 11:03
  Oh yes. Don't worry Joe, I will
• 11:05
  apologise. No, you won't.
• 11:07
  You won't. But that is literally replaying
• 11:11
  the scene from Spear from Space there, isn't it?
• 11:14
  Yes, yes, well, it works, isn't it?
• 11:16
  So absolutely. But he's got the master circuit
• 11:19
  and I think we'd be asking the questions, well, why didn't he
• 11:21
  just use that if they hadn't have done it?
• 11:24
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Oh, Paul, I so, so I know this
• 11:29
  was supposed to be called the spray of death because of what
• 11:31
  happens in part 4 and they changed it because, well, it
• 11:34
  doesn't happen until part 4 and people might be confused.
• 11:38
  This idea is absolutely terrifying.
• 11:41
  The idea of these things being given out that will asphyxiate
• 11:45
  people in their homes. That is really very That's
• 11:49
  horrific, that idea. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:52
  And the way that it does it, like when you do see it happen
• 11:54
  and like that plastic over Katie's face and.
• 11:57
  Again, the music and that scene, it's like really loud and.
• 12:01
  Yeah, well, it's that again, it's that fine line between the
• 12:05
  high camp, the the kind of gaudiness of these carnival guys
• 12:09
  just giving out these, you know, when I was a kid, plastic
• 12:14
  flowers that I think it's probably still now the idea of
• 12:16
  plastic flowers was a bit passe. And they, they, they've always
• 12:20
  seemed like something that's cheap and throw away and, and
• 12:23
  you know, the actually the opposite where they should
• 12:24
  because there's supposed to be something that lost, but they're
• 12:27
  actually seen as being kind of disposable, a little bit cheap
• 12:30
  and crass at this. Point like they were all over
• 12:35
  the place. Well, exactly.
• 12:37
  I think that this is quintessentially the 70s, isn't
• 12:39
  it like that, you know, just that idea that because I think
• 12:43
  they, they did do this, didn't they?
• 12:44
  They did give away stuff like this.
• 12:46
  I think we're so, so powered and stuff.
• 12:48
  There's a Doom watch episode. Oh yes, was that the place
• 12:51
  heaters? No, it's a it's a one called
• 12:54
  devil Sweets where like again, it's like a promotional.
• 12:56
  They got like girls going around giving out these sweets which
• 12:59
  are. Oh, is it smoking?
• 13:01
  Does it make people? Smoke to get, yeah.
• 13:04
  That's really clever episode actually, right?
• 13:06
  But it's the same kind of idea, isn't it?
• 13:08
  It's that kind of like, oh, here's, here's something is a,
• 13:10
  is a present for you. But actually the present turns
• 13:13
  out to have, you know, to be, to be deadly.
• 13:17
  Yeah. You know, there's nothing at all
• 13:19
  that is incidental about Dudley Simpson music in this story.
• 13:21
  But do you know what? I'm not hearing it.
• 13:24
  I'm not listening to it. I can hear it in everything.
• 13:26
  That bit where they were giving out the flowers, they're sort of
• 13:29
  like this weird purring heartbeat that plays out as
• 13:33
  they're going towards the van. I was like, like, they look
• 13:36
  colourful and fun and playful. The music's telling you, no,
• 13:40
  this is all. Oh, here's Mr. Brown Rose.
• 13:43
  Mr. Brown Rose. It's come here to tell us a
• 13:46
  rather alarming story. Well, I'm not having.
• 13:48
  Nobody for stories. Mr. Brown Rose is not at all
• 13:54
  impressed with the Doctor, is he?
• 13:55
  He's like, oh really? Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:58
  Well, he's like the first of a whole bunch of characters like
• 14:01
  this. We get to me over this.
• 14:03
  You know what, Paul? I think you'll find I'm
• 14:05
  qualified to podcast about practically anything.
• 14:09
  Proven it. I don't want some straight
• 14:13
  buffing on this podcast. Just a moment my good man.
• 14:16
  We at units are very busy with a number of extremely HMS.
• 14:21
  The Brigadier has got a great deal on his plate.
• 14:23
  Right. It's saying he flips.
• 14:25
  He's like one minute he's a Dick to the Brigadier and the next
• 14:27
  he's kind of like, hang on, you don't get to slate, my boy.
• 14:31
  I should say that to Fraser Gregory.
• 14:32
  You know, there's no time for your petty concerns.
• 14:35
  You know, I've got a great deal on my plate.
• 14:37
  Oh, here we go. Wrong sort of chat.
• 14:40
  No, I didn't mean to apply anything offensive.
• 14:45
  You know, Paul, if you know people in high places.
• 14:48
  Well, no, of course not. Say no more about it.
• 14:53
  I mean, that's a great one scene character, right?
• 14:55
  It's only this one scene. Yeah.
• 15:00
  Ah, here we go. Asphyxiation.
• 15:02
  So we. Oh, so the.
• 15:03
  I mean, the plot's accelerated now.
• 15:05
  They've only just handed out the flowers and people are dying
• 15:07
  already. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:09
  And he's taking it somewhere, taking it somewhere new and, and
• 15:12
  doing, you know, like he's moving that that plot on and
• 15:15
  it's just, he doesn't really stop to to take a pause.
• 15:18
  It's just kind of pushing you on to the next, next bit of story.
• 15:21
  If this was one of those seven parts, you would have a whole
• 15:23
  episode with the distribution going into people's homes, maybe
• 15:27
  a few set pieces with them going off.
• 15:29
  No, it's terribly always. Just get some with it.
• 15:31
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, they're in.
• 15:33
  They're in the bus and they're handing out the flowers.
• 15:35
  Poor Mrs. Farrell. Oh, she's had a hell of a day,
• 15:38
  isn't she? Pleasure.
• 15:41
  And look at her ugly CSO garden out the window.
• 15:46
  It's a lovely Pearl she's wearing though.
• 15:48
  No. Bouquet, look about her.
• 15:51
  And she's in black already though I just I had noticed that
• 15:53
  before. But she's she's in mourning
• 15:55
  already. She's in Black Hatter, did you
• 15:56
  say? She's in in black already.
• 15:59
  Oh, sorry. She could be in Black Hatter.
• 16:00
  I don't. Know, imagine a scene you know
• 16:04
  from keeping up appearances. You know where Richard was the
• 16:07
  one with the troll doll. Richard.
• 16:12
  Oh yes, my sister Daisy. I mean, this reminds me a bit of
• 16:17
  the scene from the Silurians. You know where it goes.
• 16:20
  What's that? She was found in the barn,
• 16:23
  paralysed with fear. She might have seen something.
• 16:26
  Yes, yeah. The way she ends this scene
• 16:28
  where like the she talks about the doll being up against the
• 16:32
  the window and under the under the curtains.
• 16:35
  Yeah, it's very much like that, isn't it?
• 16:37
  You know what, Paul? Flirting is always more
• 16:40
  dangerous when it happens invisibly.
• 16:44
  Yes. I probably wouldn't notice if it
• 16:47
  was invisible though. Joe, to be honest with you, I'm,
• 16:49
  I'm, I'm not very good at picking up on it well.
• 16:51
  I'm trying to be more fucking blatant then shall I watch now
• 16:55
  look, as he's doing today's he's chicken out.
• 16:57
  He's Arsler. As he's working, he's.
• 17:02
  Having a good overlook. Now, I can't help but notice we
• 17:05
  know this is the Master wearing a rubber mask.
• 17:07
  Yeah, indeed, But he's thinner than the Master, so he's
• 17:09
  obviously got a Slovene compression suit.
• 17:13
  And you know, it's mask. It's absolute technology.
• 17:16
  Isn't it? Yeah, yeah.
• 17:20
  But that again, that's like another cool.
• 17:24
  I think. I think Masters should do this
• 17:25
  more. The rubber mask thing happens
• 17:28
  loads in this story. It happens a bit going forwards,
• 17:30
  but but, you know, they kind of forget that over time, I think.
• 17:34
  And I think that's a brilliant kind of the cooling card of the
• 17:38
  master, definitely. Well, they sort of do in the new
• 17:41
  series. They do, you know, Jacoby is
• 17:43
  Yana. So it's a.
• 17:44
  It's a different character becoming the.
• 17:46
  Yeah, yeah, That's not as fun as ripping your face off though, is
• 17:50
  it? Well, indeed, I'll take your
• 17:52
  word for it. Well, yeah, yeah.
• 17:56
  Although I still one of my favorite moments of television
• 17:59
  ever is the Sasha to arm revealing spy fall.
• 18:02
  I leapt out of my sofa. I've been so hoodwinked by that.
• 18:07
  Yeah, yeah. No, I, I totally hadn't seen it
• 18:09
  coming either. Yeah, that's fabulous.
• 18:11
  And I was like, oh God, he's so hot.
• 18:13
  No. And then I realized he was evil
• 18:15
  when hot. And I was like, I've been
• 18:17
  trouble for Episode 2. Oh, no.
• 18:22
  It's like the troll doll was trying to get out, you know?
• 18:24
  Yeah. Oh Christ, that's a big close up
• 18:27
  of it. It was a bit closer, but this is
• 18:29
  such a weird scene. Like they take this way too
• 18:33
  seriously because there's supposed to be a toy and they're
• 18:35
  like, oh, like, serious. And you see Nick Courtney's
• 18:39
  faces, like pulling all sorts of faces like, and all, all per we
• 18:43
  supposed to be doing is kind of putting a scalpel into a plastic
• 18:46
  toy. It's something, this is very
• 18:48
  Avengers now, isn't it, where you would, you would have a, a
• 18:51
  an autopsy on a Dolly. But it would all be played for
• 18:54
  laughs, wouldn't it? It would be suspended by
• 18:56
  calipers or something. And, you know, Emma Peel will be
• 18:59
  going. Oh, yes, OK.
• 19:00
  The wide decision there, You know, whereas you're right.
• 19:04
  I mean, you know, you can't take this thing a bit too seriously.
• 19:07
  He was, Yeah. Nicholas Cawley was looking as
• 19:10
  if there was loads of guts spilling out, right?
• 19:12
  Exactly. He's like Oh my God, this is the
• 19:14
  most disgusting thing I've ever seen.
• 19:15
  Instead of like just a few lumps of plastic, but I think close
• 19:18
  up. They weren't allowed to show the
• 19:20
  scalpel going in. I remember that was on the info
• 19:23
  text was they wanted to show that actually being torn apart
• 19:27
  and they weren't allowed to do it.
• 19:30
  But I don't think, I don't know, I don't think the way that they
• 19:33
  have done it totally works. You know, it's, I don't know.
• 19:37
  What's very funny is in this bit in a minute, right where he goes
• 19:41
  to make the cocoa and she puts the bumps and burner on and that
• 19:44
  when it comes to life, they don't bother doing the man in
• 19:47
  the suit anymore. Obviously the suit was only
• 19:49
  available for Episode 2, so they just have someone holding the
• 19:53
  doll going. It is very, very funny.
• 19:59
  It's sort of leap Saturday. Yeah.
• 20:03
  Oh dear, and leap it you like that before.
• 20:08
  Yes, and and they were cold and clammy as well.
• 20:10
  Joe Great, cold and clammy to the touch.
• 20:13
  Absolutely terrifying. Look at that quasi organic
• 20:16
  matter. There's a Star Trek word of
• 20:18
  every. I saw one.
• 20:19
  Right. Now, is that the Dolly Scotsman
• 20:22
  on the phone? I.
• 20:23
  Think she was on the phone to Mr. Campbell?
• 20:24
  Yes. He's got all the spare parts,
• 20:27
  doesn't he? Yeah, they shouldn't make more
• 20:30
  of that. He should have been like
• 20:31
  referenced all the time as as a kind of extra character.
• 20:35
  You could about the Doctor. Now listen here, Mr. Campbell.
• 20:39
  The fate of the entire world isn't.
• 20:45
  Oh, yeah. Now where's the Doctor going now
• 20:48
  then? Oh, oh, they go to the factory,
• 20:52
  don't they? They go to the offices of the
• 20:53
  very school. And there's a great jump scare
• 20:55
  in that scene. Isn't there that's.
• 20:57
  Scary the life happened when I was watching it.
• 20:59
  I forgot all about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:02
  You know, you should always be careful, you know, when you're
• 21:04
  opening safes in case there's an auton in their way?
• 21:06
  Well. Absolutely.
• 21:08
  I mean, yeah. You know, you watch out next
• 21:11
  time you open your airing cupboard or I'm a secreted one
• 21:13
  in there. You might be there throwing
• 21:17
  throwing a $12.00. I don't know why, I mean, I
• 21:20
  genuinely have a fear of the parody of the human face, so
• 21:24
  that's why those masks scare me so much.
• 21:26
  Not the masters, the the carnival ones.
• 21:29
  It's the carnival ones. It's the same as the clowns.
• 21:31
  It's the same with the robots of death.
• 21:33
  It's when it's a fixed smile. Yeah, we talked about this with
• 21:38
  the Kablan man, didn't we? Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:40
  Yeah. Yeah, No, totally.
• 21:43
  Is, is such a a weird image and and yeah, that just the the big
• 21:49
  kind of carnival headness of it is.
• 21:52
  So what is it? As I think I said, the the the
• 21:54
  first one, I was so intrigued seeing a picture of it.
• 21:56
  I just couldn't wait to finally see this story.
• 21:59
  I mean, there's nothing weirder right than, but brilliant than
• 22:03
  that last set piece where it's unit soldiers versus carnival
• 22:07
  masks, you know, and and cut the people in the carnival masks are
• 22:10
  being flipped backwards as they explode.
• 22:14
  Oh no, it is the suit. He's getting yeah, but then
• 22:18
  you're right. He just, he just cut to someone
• 22:20
  just flinging the dollar. Oh dear, Oh dear.
• 22:23
  Wait for it. It just leaps straight for her
• 22:26
  throat. I mean, she's gorgeous.
• 22:27
  You would, wouldn't you? Absolutely.
• 22:32
  This is pure Avengers like the the Brig and and the doctor
• 22:35
  turning up rifling through filing cabinets and stuff.
• 22:39
  Yeah, Oh, here we go. Full of bullets and he's got
• 22:48
  that Coco in his. Coco in his service revolver.
• 22:53
  Oh no, did you see the doll full of riddled with bullet holes?
• 22:57
  Oh come on. Oh, sometimes it is hard to take
• 23:02
  the stuff. Seriously, that fine line isn't
• 23:07
  it between and. That's why why I keep taking it
• 23:11
  back to The Avengers and why I think this does riff from The
• 23:14
  Avengers is because that's what that series does really well is
• 23:18
  that fine line between the serious and the silly.
• 23:22
  And you know, it's a it's a heady mix in The Avengers.
• 23:25
  And I think bringing it to this works works brilliantly.
• 23:29
  Yeah, just great. I mean, and I, you know, I've
• 23:31
  always said one of Doctor Who's strength is his sense of humour,
• 23:34
  but it's a really like eccentric, idiosyncratic sense
• 23:39
  of humour, isn't it? Like bats sitting there.
• 23:41
  You just wouldn't want to show it to anyone who isn't a Doctor
• 23:44
  Who fan. But if you are a Doctor Who fan
• 23:46
  and you're invested in this madness, yeah, it's just
• 23:50
  delightful. But hey, you say, we've got
• 23:52
  this. Brilliant jump scare coming up.
• 23:54
  You just can't rest for a minute in this story.
• 23:56
  Anyway, it's just throwing stuff at you all the time.
• 23:58
  There's dolls or men coming out of saves.
• 24:00
  Oh great, snaking telephone wires.
• 24:04
  Absolutely I've. Never stopped going on about
• 24:06
  them. Have you got anything around you
• 24:09
  right now that can attack you made out of plastic?
• 24:11
  Oh my God, you've got those toys behind you.
• 24:14
  Yeah, yeah, yes, I have. There's a few legal Moss and
• 24:19
  character options things by me. So yeah, they can watch out you.
• 24:22
  Know that roll on, mum, Davros is looking at you.
• 24:25
  A bit strange. Oh, doesn't perk we go look out
• 24:32
  now. When he opens the door, just
• 24:33
  look out. Oh no, there, look out.
• 24:39
  That is just brilliant. Remarkably, this thing actually
• 24:47
  attacked you. Look at the state of it.
• 24:50
  Oh, bless him. Yeah, I should think that from
• 24:54
  Tol was stroke a genius. I know I know there's some
• 24:57
  issues with the execution but the I the concept is great.
• 25:01
  Concept is amazing and I think the the the way that they
• 25:05
  realise the costume is brilliant.
• 25:07
  As I say, they're my only concern with it is the fact that
• 25:09
  I don't feel it feels toyish enough or toyetic.
• 25:13
  Is the is the the word people use nowadays for you?
• 25:17
  Remember in them you remember the closing time, that dismal
• 25:20
  Matt Smith episode with the Cybermen in it and it brought
• 25:23
  back the cyber mats and it was set in a toy shop.
• 25:26
  I'm like, you have got literally the ready made Doctor Who story
• 25:30
  there cyber mats going out to all the kids at Christmas and
• 25:33
  they're bursting out of the presents on Christmas Day and
• 25:36
  stuff like that. I how the new series hasn't gone
• 25:39
  there. It baffles me where they've
• 25:41
  taken pops at consumerism but just not that.
• 25:44
  Yeah. And Moffett in particular has
• 25:47
  made his era is defined by that the bringing the ordinary into
• 25:54
  kind of like, you know, into looking at the ordinary in the
• 25:57
  scary way, like the statues and the shadows and.
• 26:00
  What, they thought it was a step too far?
• 26:01
  You know, given that they want to flock a load of toys.
• 26:05
  Yeah, Well, I don't know, I did. If you're into Doctor Who, I
• 26:08
  think that would be great way of appealing to to kids.
• 26:12
  I think having you're. Going to do it with shadows like
• 26:14
  you say, if you're going to do it with statues.
• 26:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Ah.
• 26:18
  Hello, Paul. I'm glad you're there simply to
• 26:22
  say goodbye, you know, my dear fellow.
• 26:28
  Absolutely. Now I remember that time I tried
• 26:31
  to tie you up like that and your face was very similar to Jon
• 26:34
  Perways. Yeah.
• 26:35
  Well, yeah, absolutely. Every time I'm tied up, my my, I
• 26:38
  go straight into my pert we go and that's.
• 26:43
  Really. Again, it is awesome.
• 26:45
  I mean, you wouldn't. Would you want your wife and
• 26:46
  kids to see that cliffhanger? Be honest.
• 26:54
  No. Well, when I did, my daughter
• 26:56
  did see the very end of Episode 4 the other day because I got up
• 27:00
  early on a Sunday morning to put it on when no one else was
• 27:04
  around and she came in downstairs and I was watching
• 27:08
  it. She didn't.
• 27:09
  I don't know. She's kind of, she's out of the
• 27:12
  three of them, she's probably the most receptive to Doctor
• 27:15
  Who, I think. And it's kind of she, I got
• 27:18
  quite a vivid imagination herself, so I think she didn't
• 27:20
  mind it. But you're right.
• 27:21
  It's. Yeah, it.
• 27:25
  Well, you know, you're right. It is perhaps one of those
• 27:27
  stories that would other people may not get quite so much.
• 27:31
  The most receptive you say, well that's right, you can move out
• 27:34
  the other two, you know well this as a kid and just keep one.
• 27:37
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 27:40
  One of them had a bit of imagination at least.
• 27:41
  Yeah, I've. Got to stop telling people to
• 27:43
  get rid of their families. You know, I'm getting a bit of a
• 27:45
  reputation on this. I mean, I've John Arnold and his
• 27:47
  son on, right? Yeah, That's a God, man.
• 27:50
  His son has become a super villain in his own right.
• 27:52
  Sits there in the chair with his fingers locked together.
• 27:55
  I'll say, John, you want to watch him, All right.
• 27:58
  He's going to take over the world.
• 28:00
  You know, I did realize something at the end of that
• 28:02
  episode. And that is It's the first time
• 28:04
  that Roger Delgado and John Perry have spoken to each other,
• 28:07
  and they haven't even met. Yet exactly.
• 28:09
  Yes, they don't meet until the next episode, do they?
• 28:12
  So yeah, absolutely. It's it's great.
• 28:15
  I think the way that is kind of held them off, you know, you've
• 28:18
  had a series of deaf, you know, death traps, the Doctor having
• 28:22
  to just, you know, what's the word, had to deactivate the bomb
• 28:27
  in the first episode. So yeah, yeah, it's a little bit
• 28:31
  by little bit. It's that mask building up,
• 28:32
  building up that master villain to the point where they meet in
• 28:36
  the fourth episode. And then later on the Doctor
• 28:38
  says, yeah, I'm looking forward to meeting them again.
• 28:40
  Yeah, perfect. And of course, man, the
• 28:42
  chemistry is so of course they kept bringing him back and but I
• 28:45
  thought, I never objects when Delgado and Pert were on the
• 28:49
  screen. And that sword fight in the Sea
• 28:50
  Devils, you know that amazing scene where they're talking
• 28:54
  about driving things at the end of and he's got the missile
• 28:57
  behind him in Mind of Evil. You know, the bargaining with
• 29:00
  the devil wind, the demons, it's always gold when they're
• 29:04
  together. Why wouldn't you put 2 great
• 29:06
  actors together? Yeah, again, I think that's,
• 29:08
  again, it's one of those sticks that's used to beat Season 8,
• 29:11
  isn't it? He's like, oh, it's a shame, The
• 29:12
  Masters in every story. And it's like you cast Roger
• 29:15
  Delgado, of course you want him in every bloody story.
• 29:19
  It'll be too rude, but people are really bad.
• 29:20
  Critics aren't. We're just terrible critics.
• 29:24
  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
• 29:26
  I mean, I mean, if they disagree with me, if they agree.
• 29:28
  With me, you know, if one thing critics, if they like it then
• 29:31
  yeah, absolutely wildly insightful and erudite.
• 29:35
  But yeah, absolutely. When people criticise stuff then
• 29:38
  that I like Bloody imbeciles aren't they?
• 29:41
  I mean, so far, Paul, I mean, we've been absolutely in
• 29:43
  simpatico as we've done these things.
• 29:45
  Even stories I wasn't sure of I came out loving like Destiny or
• 29:48
  the Daleks when I watched it with you.
• 29:50
  It's like you say, it's that joy of watching it with somebody
• 29:53
  else that's on your side and receptive to it.
• 29:57
  You know this one is great for that though, right when it is
• 29:59
  set pieces. But you can just scream and
• 30:02
  laugh at the TV and like, may I end this episode on the sort of
• 30:08
  moment of hyperbole? Shoot, yeah, go for.
• 30:12
  It why would I stop now? But I think whether this is
• 30:16
  funny and it is or scary and it is or really humiliating and it
• 30:23
  is or brilliantly executed, which it is, it's just great.
• 30:29
  Like I think just as a as a scene for scene Doctor Who
• 30:33
  story. I'm in heaven watching this.
• 30:38
  Yeah, I could not agree more. Absolutely.
• 30:41
  It's a perfect two watch. You know, it is.
• 30:44
  It is one of those stories that every episode gives you
• 30:47
  something new and and like big, I've said iconic a lot, but big
• 30:52
  iconic images, no. Not every Doctor Who story has
• 30:56
  iconic images, You're right. Yeah, no.
• 30:59
  And this one completely does stuff that, you know, burned
• 31:03
  onto the the retinas of generations of, of kids.
• 31:06
  Absolutely. Brilliant.
• 31:07
  The iconic images and arc of Infinity.
• 31:09
  The Bloody Costa Cafe on Gallifrey.
• 31:12
  Actually, I was pretty iconic. Pigeons flying away in the the
• 31:17
  main square in in Amsterdam, OH. The gold.
• 31:21
  The Air God indeed. Yeah.
• 31:24
  When you think about it, you probably can find one iconic
• 31:26
  image from every story. I mean Mestor.
• 31:29
  Hello. Every, every story's got
• 31:32
  something going for it, isn't it?
• 31:34
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 31:35
  Or Paul Darrow going. You are.
• 31:37
  That's right. I'm sorry.
• 31:38
  I'll stop saying that. Well, I think we've just
• 31:40
  realised that you utterly agreed with me at the end of that, why
• 31:43
  you're such a fabulous critic. Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:47
  Because, because I love it. Yeah.
• 31:49
  So that makes me right up there with the, you know, the
• 31:53
  academics who wrote an unfolding text or something like that.
• 31:57
  You are the rightest of the right, Paul.
• 32:00
  That's how I meant in this episode saying you are the
• 32:03
  rightest. I am correct?
• 32:09
  What are they talking about? That we're right and you're
• 32:12
  wrong? All right, Dylan, Race, you
• 32:14
  madman. Brick.
• 32:18
  I might add that being in the end.