Latest / Salish Wolf / #54 Pete Woodland on Project Quiver

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#54 Pete Woodland on Project Quiver · Salish Wolf

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Welcome to Project Quiver, a father daughter journey across
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the globe to capture the artistry and spirit of the
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world's finest traditional bow carvers.
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I'm Todd, the father. Ella is my daughter.
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Together we're on a mission to create a stunning coffee table
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book that profiles more than a dozen master bow years and their
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unparalleled skill. For each chapter, we travel to
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the Bow Years workshop. Carve a bow under his guidance,
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photograph his woodcraft in detail, and share his story here
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on the Salish Wolf Podcast. The book is called Quiver the
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Art of Life. Through bow craft and this
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journey, our living story is Project Quiver.
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It's good to see you man. Yeah, you too.
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This is an awesome project. Excited it.
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Is man, I'm so excited for it. Yeah, I'm excited to hear what
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you've been up to so far. It's been, well, we've had three
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visits with Bowers for the book and then we've had two, two
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additional visits for people that were that invited us to
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come and see them and their work.
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So that's been good. I went to 1st.
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We went to North Carolina with Waylon Olive made just a killer
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Osage orange bow. It's just, it's gorgeous.
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Beautiful. Yeah, that's.
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Right. Switchwood bows.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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That was a great experience. And then we went on to Nebraska
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where we met with Corey Hawk of Organic Archery.
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Awesome. Made one of his specialties a
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hackberry Neolithic Longbow. Yeah, very cool.
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Yeah. And then we went on to Salt Lake
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City with Chuck Leffler of Hartwood Bows and we made an
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Ishi style sinew back juniper bow.
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And so I actually couldn't finish that in Salt Lake.
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I shipped it back to my farm here in BC and just when I
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arrived a couple days ago, I finished that off.
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So I haven't haven't yet broken it in.
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I'm still waiting to put the shellac on it and and finish it.
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But it tillered in at 56 lbs, I think at 29 inches.
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Turned out turned out really well.
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So the delay in finishing it, that was due to the sinew de
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cure. Exactly.
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Yeah, yeah. And I.
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Have a lot of experience with Sinew but I've heard it's
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incredible stuff. Yeah, what did I read?
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It's it's. The strongest natural material
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or something? Yeah, I think it's seven times
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stronger than a natural wood backing.
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I think I read that in the In the Bow Years Bible, and now
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it's basically the same style of bow that Chuck set a couple
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flight shooting world records with.
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So neat. So we took him out to the salt
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flats. Well, he took us to the salt
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flats and we did some flight shooting there, which was really
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fun. That looks great.
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Yeah, it was beautiful. How far did you go?
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What were you like? What were you shooting?
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I don't remember anymore, and I don't want to say it because I
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don't want to be completely off the mark.
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Yeah, we were shooting some of his record setting bows.
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I shot the. I didn't have the string for the
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bow that I made with Corey, the Hackberry one, but I did have
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the string for the Osage orange bow I made with Swiftwood.
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So I did some shooting at that one shot an Asiatic corn bow.
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So it's pretty cool. Yeah.
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And then just. Last.
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Yeah, last week we went to Bowyers at Water's Edge, which
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is north of Pittsburgh. There's a lodge there and John
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Houck is the main Bowyer there, so he invited us to to come and
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see what he does. And then he does some carving
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with a gentleman named Jeremy, who's one of his former students
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and Jeremy's girlfriend owns the lodge.
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So they invited us to come and stay with them.
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We did some spear throwing without laddles.
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We did some archery, hung out by the river.
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It was really, really fantastic. Great people.
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Sounds like paradise. Yeah, they took us in for a few
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days and just kind of showed us their workshop.
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They offer courses there as well, bow carving courses.
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So that was really cool. And then a few days later we
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went to Cumberland, MD and checked out an archaeologist
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named Roy Brown who carved A Wampanoag war bow, which was
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it's replica of the Sudbury bow. Are you familiar with that one?
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Yeah. So that was based on a 1660 bow
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replica that was taken from an Indian in Sudbury, MA.
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So Roy created all the tools by hand to cut cut down the Hickory
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tree using stone axes. You shape the entire bow using
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only stone tools, mostly chert and another stone.
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I'm not going to remember off the top of my head, but he made
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like little card scrapers and spokeshaves using all stone
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tools. So we're just about ready to
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post those photos on the Instagram.
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And yeah, then he made a pretty, pretty fantastic bow.
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We got to shoot that. And yeah, it's just, it's been
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incredible seeing like it's, it's already been so much more
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than I could have expected in the beginning.
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Sure. So, and now we get to do our
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British Columbia leg of it, which is including you and a few
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others and I'm really excited for it.
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Yeah, same. What have you been up to?
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I've. Been up to bow building, working
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construction. Probably got some time off.
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I'm up here at the lake. OK.
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Yeah, could have found the cabin up here.
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Nice. There's about 3 acres of forest
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here. It's just and there's lots of
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old rotten Doug fur and cedar stumps, so great stump shooting.
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Yeah, it's been doing my thing. That's awesome.
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What kind of bows? What bows are you working on
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right now? I just finished AU Recurve.
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That's it's kind of the latest in this exploration I'm doing
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with the Coastalish style. Not uniquely coastalish, but I
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mean there's other cultures that have produced this belly Ridge,
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but it's I believe the Coastalis actually had the belly Ridge
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from tip to tip running right through the handle.
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Otherwise I've got mine stopping doesn't exist in the handle so
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it just goes from other fades to tips on each side.
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The idea behind it that I've read is it creates a stiffness
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in the limbs where you have otherwise a thin bow.
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So if you're looking at the finished bow being you didn't
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want it to be say 50 lbs at whatever draw length, you create
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this sort of so like curved Ridge towards the center.
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And this just gives a little bit of stiffness so that you can
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take that bow that's just maybe a little bit too thin and take
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it from 50 lbs and jump it right up to high 60s, low 70s.
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And the part I liked about the best about it is the way it, it
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holds light and cast shadow. It's just like every, every
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little turn and movement of it. It's just you see this beautiful
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Ridge. It's like a like a valley and a
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mountain Ridge on the bow. It's like this beautiful thing.
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Someone reached out to me a while ago on Instagram.
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There's a Turkish guy and he's saying it's like, oh wow.
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Like it's a thousands of year old tradition for Turkish bows
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to have these belly ridges. Sometimes there was two or three
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on each limb and he was saying it's a great limb stiffness as
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well. So it's it's interesting.
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It's interesting style. There's not a lot of literature
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on it with the Coach Taylor style, though.
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I've seen a couple pictures in books.
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Someone sent me a picture from museum here in BC where there's
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one, but it's a reverse. So it's got the belly rises
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towards the same type of Ridge, but then the Ridge has like a
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little, it's like scalloped all the way up.
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So it's not the same, but it's very similar.
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I don't know what the what the physics would be with that to
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sort of carve out the Ridge itself once you've as you've
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created it, but beautiful stuff. So the the Ridge has the
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scallops. On it, the Ridge itself is, you
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know, if you can imagine it coming to a point and then you
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take like a gouge chisel and you just you're hollowing out the
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Ridge. It's something I like to try.
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It's super cool, super cool. But as far as performance goes,
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I don't notice any difference between, you know, a belly Ridge
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versus a flat Ridge. I just think they look super
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cool. Yeah, I've been seeing the
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photos. They're beautiful.
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And then you're combining them with other.
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Traditional well recurving. So that's you know, if I guess,
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if you trace recurves not far enough, it's, you know, Syria,
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Asia in general. There is a German bow.
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I believe it was I could be totally wrong on the dates here.
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I think it's 500 BC called the over flat bow and it's really
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identical, almost identical to the Co sailor style.
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It's pretty much the same thing with the Ridge down the the
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center of the belly. So they were on to something.
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Why you don't see it in more bow styles.
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I don't know time maybe to to carve.
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It just wasn't maybe, maybe too much.
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How old do you think that style is?
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Or Co salish bows in general. Gosh, I mean, how long have the
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Co Salish been here for? I don't know.
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Thousands. Yeah.
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And thousand or more plus. So it could be as old as they
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are. Was it a unique thing to a
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certain bow maker and their culture?
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Like a little like a personal flair?
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It could have been, yeah. Remains to be seen, but very old
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style nonetheless. Are you just making those out of
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you? Are you trying other ones as
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well? I've done one in Osage so far,
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which was a challenge. It's like working through
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concrete. But yeah, for the most part,
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just in you would. OK.
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And what tools are you? I've had to invent a little
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tool, somewhat more of a modification.
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I took a traditional cabinet scraper, the gooseneck one with
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the curves, and basically sort of make it in set up.
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You like the opposite shape of the actual limb, you know, And
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it proved to be a little bit easier, but it was, it still had
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its challenges. And I've actually resorted back
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to just using traditional scrapers to get that effect.
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Do these take longer to do? Yeah.
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Have you ever made a holo limb before?
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No, it's almost on par with a holo limb.
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Probably a little bit less. So if you were to make a
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traditional pyramid style flat bow, I don't know, let's just
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say that takes you 3 days to make a proper one.
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I would add probably an extra 8 hours a full day to do both
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limbs, maybe a touch more. And if you include some extra
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children just to make sure it's, it's good to go, you know, an
11:09
extra couple hours. So yeah, a day and a day and a
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half extra over a regular flat bow, which doesn't sound like
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much, but when the main motion you're doing is just little tiny
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scraping movements, correcting it, it's it's a bit tedious.
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So maybe that's why you don't see too many of them, but I
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think they're just so cool. They're beautiful, yeah.
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And you're always experimenting with different styles, aren't
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you? I try to, I try to push the
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limits a bit and just be experimental.
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It's kind of in my nature. I don't like pumping out the
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same thing bow after bow. I like to play with different
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styles, hollow limbs, recurves. I've made some paddle bows,
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wasn't very impressed with those.
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But for me it's not so much about the bow, it's about the
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creative process of making the bow and where the ideas come
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from. You know, what will work, what
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won't? Some stuff, this just will not
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work. You know, like in my opinion,
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paddle bows, they'll work to a certain point, but compared to a
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pyramid bow or you know, like an Ishi style bow, which is just so
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fast. So I mean there are limits to
12:19
creativity I think within bow making, but paddle bows
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boundaries are still quite wide. Paddle bows come from Heideguy
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mostly. I don't know if they're uniquely
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from Heideguy, but they I believe Heide of bows are.
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You could describe them as paddle bows.
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It was the ones I've seen. What makes them a paddle?
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But what features do they have? It's the width and the limb.
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As far as I know, they're shorter bows.
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I don't think I've ever seen one longer than 5658 inches.
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Very wide. Most questionably wide.
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Like how much? 4 inches.
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Two and a half, 3 1/2. Yeah, I could be wrong on those
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specs, but that's just like a rough ballpark.
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So I've made a few of them. What I've found the problem with
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them is just the mass in the limb.
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There's just too much mass. So you get, you just poor cast
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is what you end up with. I mean, they'll work for, you
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know, if you're in a canoe or a kayak and you're hunting seal or
13:22
even fishing with them, I suppose you can get really
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close. It'd be fine.
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But I wasn't very impressed with them compared to more accepted
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styles. Not not more accepted styles,
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more more prolific styles. What do you do?
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You know what inspired that shape?
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That design? I don't.
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Did they paddle paddle with them?
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But was it actually used in their boat to paddle?
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I mean, I suppose you could. I don't know that you'd be going
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anywhere too quickly. Yeah, you know, maybe so they
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don't take up too much room in your canoe, whatever you're
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using to to transport yourself with.
14:00
I mean, they had access to other game than just, you know, marine
14:05
life. So yeah, I'm not sure.
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I'm not sure what brought that style about.
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It's interesting. I love looking at both styles
14:13
and sort of thinking, OK, like, why that style?
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Obviously it has to work, has to be fast, quiet.
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But, you know, every ecosystem produces that one tree or that
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combination of trees that's like, this is the one you use
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for the bow, right? Like here in the Pacific
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Northwest, it's the Yew Tree. Pacific you in a lot of parts of
14:34
the states, it's White Woods or Osage.
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The Inuit I believe their cable bows I think were made of spruce
14:42
that they would have to travel quite far together.
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But it's just interesting to see, OK, you isolate your tree.
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That's the best tree for bow wood.
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And then that bow wood also, you know, produces a bow that's
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specific for that ecosystem and everything you find in it.
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Like most First Nations in the Pacific Northwest were after
15:03
ungulates. So you had these bows that seem
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to be tailored specifically to those animals, whereas the Inuit
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had these smaller bows that were for seal.
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So it's, it's neat looking at the relationship between the bow
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maker, the ecosystem and what's in it.
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Like it's almost like it's telling you what to make and how
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to use it. So you feel that the use of the
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bow inspired the shape more than the type of wood?
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Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, the use of the bow like
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what you're using it for inspired the shape.
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I would say that's a good a good platform to go off of.
15:40
Yeah, sure. Do you?
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Think it's ever the kind of wood that inspires the shape?
15:46
Yeah, for sure, for sure. You know, if you look at the
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English Longbow, why was it, why was it that shape?
15:54
Why was it nearly, you know, 6 1/2, seven feet long?
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Can you make a flat bow that's £150 or more?
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I've never tried. I don't see why not.
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But from the bow makers I've talked to who specifically make
16:09
the English Longbow, it sounds like it was more of an economic
16:15
thing, right? Because if you take a, you take
16:18
an 8 inch, you would log you're going to get twice as many long
16:21
bows out of it as you would flat bows.
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Yeah, so. And I guess with that extra,
16:29
extra draw weight, it was more capable of penetrating armor.
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Yeah, longer. Bow.
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What's the heaviest Flatwood bow you've made?
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Probably about 100 lbs OK in a flat bow. 6870 lbs.
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It was crazy. Very powerful fast bow.
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I don't know that I really like shooting.
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It just felt scary every time you draw it back with that much
16:49
tension, it's such a short piece of wood.
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I've shot English longbows that are over 100.
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It's a different feel. It's a lot smoother.
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Yeah. It almost feels like with that
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draw weight that there's like the stacking, even though there
17:03
isn't. It just feels like that's
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happening. So.
17:07
Yeah. So the length of the English
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Longbow. Yeah.
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What's your favorite wood to work with?
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You know you, I want to say you would.
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It's so smooth, buttery, beautiful stuff.
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I mean, I think it's the most beautiful wood.
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I'd say probably my favorite wood is probably Osage, which is
17:27
odd maybe given the fact that I'm surrounded by you wood and
17:30
like it's just as abundant and it's a beautiful wood.
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There's something about Osage that's just, there's something
17:36
about it I can't explain it. It's magical stuff.
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Yeah, it is. It's hard to work compared to
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you wood for sure. It's like very, very dense.
17:43
It's almost like you're working concrete or working.
17:46
You worked with eBay before. Yeah.
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So it's I feel it's similar to that.
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And when you go from from you would to Osage, it's it's like,
17:53
Oh my God, what is this? But I love it.
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What are the some of? Those make my favorite bow.
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I don't know it's my favorite bow would to work.
18:03
I think my favorite bow would to shoot a bow is you would OK.
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What are some of the more unique woods that you've carved with?
18:13
I've made some pretty unique bows out of unique woods like
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it's 1 Perea. Have you ever heard of Torrea?
18:19
No. It's in the You family.
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I believe it's in the You family.
18:25
It's also, I think it's a nutmeg is common name California
18:29
nutmeg. So I've had a state of that
18:32
once. It was beautiful.
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It was incredible smell to it, just beautiful, beautiful stuff,
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but doesn't make a great bow. It's good intention, poor and
18:39
compression kind of thing. I like juniper.
18:42
Juniper is great, beautiful stuff.
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I made a short juniper bow, sort of the easy style bow, but not
18:49
traditionally. Like there was no sinew
18:51
involved. I used to use raw head.
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It was a lower draw weight, maybe 50 lbs or so, but great
18:57
little bow. Great bow.
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Anything that's aromatic. I love working with aromatic
19:01
woods, just enhances the whole experience.
19:05
Yeah, and of course in BC we're surrounded by our beautus.
19:08
So beautiful. But our beautus, yeah, does.
19:10
It does it make a bow? I've never tried.
19:12
I heard it's terrible. OK, It's super brittle just
19:16
splitting it with firewood, you know, like, it's it it almost
19:20
like just explodes into pieces. Yeah, but if only it made bows,
19:24
right? I mean, it's everything and it's
19:26
beautiful stuff. You get like little purple
19:28
streaks and pink streaks in it. Oh, it's amazing.
19:30
Yeah, Yeah. And then I've heard in Costa
19:32
Rica I'm surrounded by teak, and I've heard similar things and
19:35
teak's no good. But then I was just reading
19:37
Volume 2 of the Bow Years Bible, and there's a lot of stuff of
19:40
them. One of the writers writes a lot
19:41
about teak bows. Solid.
19:44
It's one piece self bows or laminates.
19:46
Interesting. No so I believe it's self bows
19:49
so I haven't tried it but I will.
19:50
I don't know a lot about teak, do they?
19:53
Is there any literature on the the physics of it?
19:56
Like compression tension? Do you have to back it?
19:59
I'm sure there is, I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
20:01
Beautiful stuff though. Yeah, gorgeous.
20:04
Yeah, and it and you back a lot of your bows, right?
20:07
I back a lot of my bows, yeah. Is that more for design or a
20:11
function or a bit of both? So you would doesn't need any
20:15
backing. No, it's it needs nothing, but I
20:18
backed most of my you would bows with rawhide pretty much as as
20:23
an armor to protect it just from bet on whack against a rock tree
20:28
stump. You know it's soft stuff.
20:30
Even if you burnish you would it's still still prone to
20:34
bruises and dents and gouges in my experience.
20:37
So I treat the rawhide as a a protective skin over the
20:40
backside. Not going to stop it from
20:43
breaking if it wants to break, but it might stop it from
20:46
exploding so it speaks. Yeah, that looks cool too.
20:50
And then you use snakeskin. Make skin to go over top.
20:54
Yeah, just why not? It's beautiful.
20:56
It's camouflage. I've been doing a bit of
21:00
experimenting with tree bark, like Bridge Park, the Bark
21:04
Bridge. I haven't revealed anything yet
21:06
because it's not figured out how to get it set on the back of the
21:10
bow without it kind of looking like, like wet paper.
21:14
But I know it can be done and it's going to be beautiful.
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So it's good bright white. So you get that look as though,
21:21
you know, it kind of looks like they use app would, but you get
21:24
the little tiny flecks of I'm not sure what it is.
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It's like little bits of bark. I was shooting one of Chuck's
21:31
Chuck Leffler's. I think it was an Asiatic corn
21:34
bow that. Was.
21:35
That had paper Birch. Neat.
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Backing. Neat.
21:40
Do you know how he applied it? I don't.
21:42
Not at all. Yeah, yeah.
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It was well used, well broken in, so it was kind of past its
21:50
days of a pure beauty, but it was very functional.
21:53
Neat, Neat. Was it sectional like Did the
21:55
paper bark itself? Was it, was it?
21:57
Did it run the whole length of the limb or was it?
22:00
I think it wrapped around the whole bow belly and back too.
22:04
Sweet, yeah. I'd have to get a look.
22:07
I'd love to look. At some some photos, we
22:09
definitely have photos of it so. Yeah, I'd love to see that.
22:12
Sounds cool. Yeah, how did you get into the
22:17
land of Bow? Yours.
22:19
Land of Bow making the bug. But old family friend, master
22:24
bow maker Andrea Suit and Dorfer, who grew up since the
22:30
age of just 20 when he moved to Haideguai from Germany.
22:34
He was a follower all his life and he was into bows when he was
22:37
in Germany. And then he found himself
22:39
surrounded by, you know, one of the best bow woods in the world,
22:42
Pacific U. He started making bows.
22:45
And, you know, 40 years later when I met him, I was about
22:49
1415. I was up there sitting in the
22:51
living room kind of bored, looking for something to do.
22:54
And I think he could recognize that.
22:56
And so he disappeared into his room in his studio and came back
22:59
with this thing in his hands. And it was, I was just like,
23:02
what is that? That was the coolest looking
23:05
thing I'd ever seen. It was AU flat bow, so no
23:08
particular style to it, just like a primitive, you know,
23:11
maybe a pyramid style if I had to isolate it.
23:14
No backing. He had Purple Heart tip overlays
23:21
and whalebone arrow rest and I I just thought it was the most
23:25
beautiful thing I'd ever seen. It was like rugged and primitive
23:28
looked like something that Conan the destroyer would make you
23:31
know, to play his enemies be at. It was mysteriously sleek and
23:35
just polished and beautiful. Just it was like an electric
23:39
shock when I saw it. Like I knew like this thing,
23:43
this is part of my life now I have to make one of these.
23:46
It was just so cool. So that's where it started.
23:49
I was around 15. I didn't get into making them
23:52
right there. He gifted me one shortly after I
23:56
shot that. For a while it was a takedown,
23:59
but I didn't know about proper storage back then.
24:02
And I kept it inside near a heat source.
24:05
Went to shoot it one day and bang, exploded on me.
24:10
That was a hard lesson. But yeah, that's where it
24:12
started. And it was a deep rabbit hole.
24:17
After that literature and meeting and talking to other bow
24:21
makers in my early 20s, sorry, my late 20s, I signed up for
24:29
Jamie. Jamie McDonald's Raven Beak
24:31
Shop. Yeah, just to kind of, you know,
24:34
I wanted to go ahead with it and be more serious about it and
24:36
make real bows. So yeah, you got in touch with
24:40
Jamie and signed up, and that was awesome.
24:41
It was. Yeah.
24:44
Yeah. Super knowledgeable guy, great
24:46
bow maker. Yeah.
24:48
Were you making bows before you went to work with Jamie?
24:51
I was making bows. Yeah.
24:52
Yeah. They were orders of magnitude,
24:56
sort of, you know, worse than what I make now.
24:59
You know, they're, they're amateur bows.
25:01
They worked, you know, 4550 lbs. But there was just a lot I
25:05
didn't know or didn't apply. Yeah.
25:08
Yeah. That taking that workshop bumped
25:12
bumped the skill and knowledge up quite a bit.
25:14
Yeah, and I, I credit Jamie with oh, I bought my first bow off of
25:19
him, which I. Still have today.
25:20
Yeah, yeah, Longbow. And I think I shot that one.
25:23
Probably and that that definitely lit the fire on me.
25:26
I I felt the calling prior to getting that, but that bow was
25:30
exactly what I needed when. I got yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:32
They're crazy things. Hey, it's like, you know, like
25:34
you get the first self bow you hold, you just know like, OK,
25:37
well this is changes everything. Yeah.
25:43
And when did you start making them for others?
25:45
About 10-12 years ago or so. I mean, I've made a few for
25:50
friends before that, but actually making them and putting
25:53
them out there into the world, it's about about 10-12 years
25:56
ago. What?
25:57
Was the first one that you sold? Gosh, dig deep in my memory
26:01
here. I believe the first one I made
26:03
was an English Longbow. Nothing fancy, traditional that
26:07
cowborn tips. I forget who I sold it to, but
26:09
it was an English Longbow. Was the first one I sold and the
26:13
guy was stoked. Loved it.
26:15
And, you know, the positive feedback encouraged me to keep
26:17
doing it. And yeah, from just kind of went
26:22
from there compounded and, you know, all kinds of customers,
26:26
guys like you and me, few musicians and some other famous
26:32
types. That was kind of neat.
26:36
Yeah. And it's, it's still the same
26:37
thing today. It's just a steady, steady
26:41
request. I'm not really doing the custom
26:44
bows anymore. I'm going to be making the
26:47
switch to workshops. And the bows you see me making
26:50
on Instagram are really more like personal explorations.
26:54
I'm also using, as, you know, look what can be done, you know,
26:58
come and come and work with me and let's make these together.
27:01
Yeah, I want people to learn. I want people to have that same
27:03
experience that I had when I first discovered them and
27:06
started making them. Do most people find you through
27:10
Instagram or your website or other ways?
27:12
Yeah, mostly through Instagram. You know, there's some local
27:17
people, like friends and whatnot and word of mouth, but mostly
27:21
most of the social media. It's been a great platform for
27:25
that. I was thinking earlier about our
27:29
origin story as far as our relationship goes, because I'd
27:32
seen your axes. Oh yeah.
27:35
And a little boutique place in Brentwood Bay, not far from
27:39
where we live. Oh yeah, sure.
27:41
I don't think I knew you were a Bowyer, but I think I had your
27:45
number or something from the Axis and then, but I knew there
27:49
was a Bowyer living in this area from probably Jamie McDonald.
27:52
I left little clues. And then weren't we?
27:55
I think we were talking like via e-mail or something for a few
27:59
months and I still didn't know who you were.
28:01
That's weird. And then one day my wife invited
28:04
you and your wife over to the farm and we were just walking
28:07
around. I still had no idea who you
28:09
were. Remember that?
28:10
That was so weird. And at one point you mentioned
28:13
the Bowyer and I was like, what? Hang on, you make the you're the
28:16
dude who makes the bows. It was like, I was searching for
28:21
you for I don't know, I might have been over a year.
28:22
I was looking for you. And then you just showed up one
28:24
day and it's like, holy shit, I've been talking to you for.
28:26
Like, yeah, that was weird. Yeah, two guys obsessed with
28:30
bows, but we don't even know it. And we're what, like 3 farms
28:33
apart down the road? Yeah, exactly.
28:36
That's crazy. Yeah.
28:38
When did heritage bows? Where did that come from as far
28:42
as the name and the business aspect?
28:45
The name was just sort of born out of the idea that it's every
28:50
culture, all of us, we all share that heritage.
28:52
If you've shot a bow or not, like you have shot one, it's in
28:55
your genes. You've done it before in a past
28:57
life. Maybe if you believe in that
28:59
thing. So it's our collective cultural
29:01
heritage. I don't know.
29:02
It just is nice. I don't like big, like elaborate
29:06
words or descriptions for businesses.
29:08
Just like one word, clean, easy. And it just, it kind of stuck.
29:12
I liked it. Heritage pose.
29:15
It's our heritage, yeah. And are you carving full time or
29:19
are you? No, no Instagram would give the
29:22
illusion that I'm carving full time.
29:24
That's just what Instagram does. It makes it look like what you
29:27
see is what that person does 100% of the time.
29:31
Bow making for me right now is probably time from week to week,
29:35
maybe less you know 20 minutes here an hour here I kind of fit
29:39
in right now where I can that's. Not an interesting that's.
29:43
Mostly you guys just got so much going on.
29:44
I'm doing a Renault so I've got accommodation for people to stay
29:47
in when I launched the bow making workshops, so that'll
29:51
probably jump up to being a bit more, but I like making time for
29:55
other things. I love the outdoors.
29:58
I don't know how you pull. Away after 10 or 20 minutes.
30:00
I just like I often don't as soon as I.
30:03
Go to my bar and I'm. Like, oh shit, I'm going to be
30:05
here in the afternoon. I think I'm going outside for.
30:08
20 minutes and then an hour later it's like I'm getting
30:11
called for dinner five times. Tell me about the workshops that
30:16
you're starting. Up well.
30:19
They're going to be small just because of the space.
30:21
I mean, I don't have a a proper workshop like a lot of guys
30:25
have. I would describe it more of a,
30:28
you know, more of a carving shed.
30:30
It's beautiful. Yeah, it's great.
30:32
It's a great. Location beautiful views and
30:35
then the cabin right next right next to it, you know 20 feet
30:37
away it's awesome beautiful spot views of the inlet and the
30:42
valley is that where people will be staying in the.
30:44
Cabin it is, yeah. That was the last time I saw
30:47
that. Was kind of like your that used
30:50
to be my. Yeah, that was my dry studio,
30:52
right process backing materials and applied oil and just all the
30:56
finishing details and now where's that?
31:00
Now that is the carving. Shed as well as down inside the
31:03
house I've got a little studio room that used it's like an
31:07
office but it works fine yeah and the cabin the whole process
31:13
I think is going to be geared towards not exclusively but
31:16
geared towards couples just because of the size of the cabin
31:19
right it sleeps too so you'll be able to come with your your
31:23
partner and stay there or your buddy and one guy could sleep up
31:26
in the loft yet it can take the the full out couch down below
31:29
well if you need more space you. Can send them down to our
31:32
suites. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
31:33
Thanks. We'll accommodate.
31:35
Yeah. Yeah.
31:36
And I like the idea of just intimate workshops where I can
31:39
focus on just one-on-one or one on two.
31:43
I like that. It's my style.
31:45
Yeah. And why?
31:46
Why are? You getting into the workshops?
31:47
I like making the bows. Alongside people without the
31:52
pressure of having to conform to someone's idea of what they want
31:57
the bow to look like. Hence why you're not doing
32:00
custom. Bow so much hence, yeah.
32:03
I love the custom bow process and I appreciate all the people
32:06
I made bows for greatly. I loved it.
32:09
I just I didn't like the constraints.
32:11
Sometimes time constraints. Well, when I was with Waylon.
32:16
And having no idea. How someone's going to treat
32:18
their bow as well, that's a big thing.
32:20
Yeah. Like these things, they're not,
32:22
they're not laminated compounds, you know, they're, they're
32:25
delicate and they're like violins, in my opinion.
32:28
Yeah, when I was. When I was with Waylon at
32:31
Swiftwood Bow, I saw him like start and stop multiple staves
32:35
because he was doing customs and the stage just wasn't turning
32:38
out to be the right thing for that customer.
32:41
And it's like so. And it just like took him so.
32:44
Long to get the right stave and get rolling on it, and then if
32:47
he found any sort of blemish that was not going to work, he
32:50
would have to start again. So I experienced that a.
32:53
Lot super frustrating. You'll get 80% of the way
32:56
through and you get the floor tiller on a bow and then you
32:59
discover some blemish and it's like, why I can't go ahead with
33:02
this? I can't sell, no.
33:04
Exactly right. And it's like all that time.
33:06
Wasted. Whereas, you know, if you're
33:08
doing a workshop, you can have a whole bunch of staves pre
33:12
processed that are close to floor tiller.
33:14
If one turns out to be bunk, you just grab it, it's ready to go.
33:18
And it's you know, you could do the same thing with custom bows,
33:20
but it's it's just a bit different.
33:23
You know, I often would give a customer the option to pick out
33:27
the stave, just go on a live feed and just show them the
33:31
stave or send pics and stuff and they pick that one.
33:33
So yeah, when do you foresee? Being open for business, Well, I
33:40
wanted to be open for business. August, but it's just as Reno's
33:43
go, there's way more involved than you often can predict.
33:48
So I'm hoping to launch and advertise workshops for the late
33:54
September onwards until until late November, and then take a
33:58
break over the winter and pick up again in the spring.
34:01
Is that advertising going to be on?
34:02
Instagram, mostly. It's going to be mostly on
34:04
Instagram. Yeah, locally as well, you have
34:07
a solid following. It's decent, yeah.
34:09
It's not bad. It's.
34:10
Not bad, Instagrams always felt kind of broken to me, but did
34:14
you did? You start over I.
34:16
Was just on your. Profile and there's not that
34:18
many posts I did. Yeah, I found.
34:20
I found it was getting glitchy. I don't know if it was just, you
34:23
know, my own phone or if it was Instagram itself, but I had so
34:26
many posts and I had like 3000 posts or something like that or
34:29
more. And I was having problems
34:32
loading up posts sometimes. Like it would just, I would load
34:35
up a reel or a post and it would just be a black screen.
34:39
And so I'm not a tech guy. Yeah, I'm tech illiterate
34:43
somewhat. So I was just like, you know,
34:45
maybe I'll just like get rid of like 90% of the stuff that's on
34:48
here and in the process kind of slightly rebrand direct.
34:56
So far it seems to work. I've got people have reached out
34:59
and asked about workshops and sort of, you know, tentatively
35:03
booked themselves a bit. Yeah, it's such a frustrating.
35:06
Almost necessary evil to to get your material out there.
35:09
Yeah. The only one of in Project
35:11
Quiver of the only one of 15 I believe that doesn't have one is
35:14
Jamie McDonald. A Raven.
35:16
Good for good for him. I.
35:17
Know you're and. I.
35:19
Don't touch my my daughter. Takes care of ours for Project
35:22
Quiver, but yeah, yeah, I was. Talking with Corey.
35:26
Hawk and he's got a really nice following 80,000 but he's been
35:30
he's been shut down three times and had her from scratch shut
35:34
down like like. Down for he was.
35:37
Telling me by the man by the man.
35:39
Yeah, he was. Telling me some reasons and they
35:41
were so stupid. I think I heard.
35:43
I think he mentioned that to. Me once, yeah.
35:45
He was like got fled for promoting violence or promoting
35:51
hate or no. It was promoting nudity or
35:53
something and sexual activity, he told me.
35:55
Yeah, but. I don't remember the story why
35:58
that is, but yeah, he mentioned that.
35:59
No sense, Yeah. And maybe there was 1.
36:02
About violence, because he, I don't know.
36:04
I mean, he's ex military, he has weapons, but and he makes
36:08
weapons, he makes bows. I don't know, it was really
36:10
ridiculous. I mean, anything can be a
36:12
weapon. You know, I mean, I I see
36:13
nothing violent about bow making.
36:17
No, it's a. Practice.
36:19
I mean, look at. Japan, I mean, yeah, their form
36:23
of military archery is. It's a sport.
36:25
I mean, it's beautiful, poetic sport.
36:28
I mean, I look at that and I don't think, oh, that's so
36:30
violent. Yeah, well, it's a meditation
36:32
too. Yeah, yeah.
36:33
And that's one thing. Corey uses his.
36:35
For is therapy yeah every day he's.
36:37
Doing it for therapy. He said it's been incredible for
36:40
PTSD. Amazing.
36:43
Amazing. I don't shoot every day.
36:46
I often try to. I definitely shoot once or twice
36:50
a week. Yeah, for an hour, hour and a
36:52
half, two hours sometimes. It's absolutely a meditation.
36:57
It really is. Even when you don't want to
36:59
meditate, you're like, I don't have time or you just whatever
37:03
reason you don't feel like shooting your bow.
37:05
So I can just get my bow strong and get out there and shoot an
37:10
arrow, like 1 arrow or two arrows and like, yeah, yeah, OK,
37:13
this is good. I'm glad I did this.
37:15
And then, you know, like 30 more arrows follow you walk away
37:20
really good. Like it's a discipline.
37:21
It's a discipline to like get yourself to do it sometimes.
37:25
But it's always rewarding. It's always worth it so much.
37:29
Yeah, it's a deep, deep thing. This archery and bow making
37:33
itself is a deep thing. There's like so many layers to
37:36
it. But archery itself, I mean, I
37:38
know you can, you can get into theoretical physics with it and
37:42
like quantum physics, like, is there a target?
37:46
Does the target exist? Right.
37:49
That whole thing, yeah. And.
37:53
The whole philosophy, it's fascinating.
37:55
And I was talking with Chuck. About like the size of
37:58
projectile that can be shot and how like insignificantly small
38:03
it can be to still absorb all the force of the bow draw.
38:06
But if you take away that insignificantly small
38:09
projectile, the bow, the bow could shatter, right?
38:12
It's just like, that's crazy. Like that tiny little thing can
38:16
absorb that 100 lbs of force. It's wild.
38:19
You take it. Away, and it's a whole.
38:21
Different story. Yeah.
38:23
Yeah, I've been. Fortunate my.
38:25
My wife leads a lot of women's retreats in Costa Rica and
38:29
she'll bring her women to do some archery with me.
38:33
And it's it's pretty interesting to see because a lot of times
38:36
when the women show up, I can see some of them are really
38:39
excited and some of them are like, what am I doing here?
38:42
All right, I'm supposed to be on this like, Zenfal health
38:45
retreat, discovering my own, you know, body and learning about my
38:50
traumas. And.
38:51
And anyway, they start doing archery and some of them, well,
38:53
all of them just become totally captivated by it.
38:56
Yeah. Yeah, It's amazing.
38:58
It's so empowering for them so. It's and I've across the board,
39:02
every student I've ever taught, I don't think I've ever taught a
39:05
single person who's like this sucks.
39:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Should have done.
39:08
This what's. I mean, maybe I'm Rob.
39:10
It's kind of similar to yoga in the sense that it's physical,
39:14
you're using your body, but yet you're still and you're you're
39:19
kind of using your mind, not using your mind.
39:21
You're kind of quieting your mind.
39:22
I mean, I don't do yoga, but I from afar, it seems like there's
39:25
some similarities there. It's kind of what I always.
39:28
Wanted yoga to be when I used to practice yoga, it was Yeah,
39:31
because it's Hey, I you just invented.
39:34
Something right there. Yoga and bows.
39:37
Well, I had a word. For it.
39:38
What is it? Oh it's oh shit I forgot the
39:41
word now it's oh zenelin. Combination of Zen and
39:44
adrenalin. That's what it needed for me
39:51
like. Some yoga with adrenaline or?
39:52
Yoga with adrenaline. So, Archer.
39:54
Yeah, the Zenaline and that's, that's incredible.
39:57
Just that feeling of releasing the bowstring and yeah, yeah.
40:02
And Archer's paradox is another thing that's just so weird.
40:05
Yeah, I don't know if you've looked at.
40:06
That much? I mean you can reduce it based
40:10
on your bow design. I mean, it's a little tricky
40:13
with self bows, but if you really make that handle section
40:15
just just so and then especially if you carve in like an arrow
40:20
shelf, it reduces it a bit, but it's still there.
40:23
It's still just such a bizarre thing to me.
40:25
You know that you if you film yourself in slow motion, you see
40:29
the arrow leaving like it's moving around the bow like it
40:33
shouldn't be, it shouldn't work. It should go flying off to the
40:36
left. But just it's like, well, what I
40:41
I? Still, still paradoxical to me
40:43
is how it can keep sneaking the whole way and yet the tip like
40:49
it with an accurate shot. And I I think about people who
40:52
like there's some guy on YouTube that shoots people throw like
40:55
tic tacs into the air and he shoots them.
40:58
So I know what he's shooting at and he hits him every time.
41:01
And it's like what that tip is snaking back and forth.
41:04
How does that tip always hit the tic tac?
41:07
That's mind, boy. It's like I don't get it.
41:10
You would think it would like only be part of each pendulum
41:13
where it would be on target, but it's, yeah, always on target,
41:16
yeah, which makes that more impressive.
41:18
Impressive. If you try shooting your bow
41:20
close range, like really close range, like stand like, I don't
41:24
know, like 8 feet from your target, 10 feet from your target
41:27
and shoot it, see how accurate you are.
41:29
It's freaking almost impossible to hit the center of the
41:32
bullseye because the paradox is so fresh, right?
41:36
It's just, and so like you'll be 8 feet away from your target and
41:40
you should be. You think you should be hitting
41:42
on center right. Like every time it's like you're
41:44
a foot to the right, a foot to left.
41:46
It's like what is going on? No way.
41:47
I've never tried that. Yeah, it's interesting.
41:50
It's one. Thing I do to sort of tune bows,
41:53
right? So you can, you can see, you
41:55
know, you shoot from 8 feet away or whatever I'm shooting from
41:57
and you should see how badly you miss.
41:59
OK, back to the tillering tree, back to the workbench, carve
42:04
that handle down a little bit more, maybe make a little bit
42:06
more of an inset for the arrow and your accuracy starts to
42:10
improve a little bit in that close range.
42:12
And then you draw back 1020 feet, other 1020 feet, you get
42:17
more and more accurate because the, as far as I understand it,
42:21
the paradox is it's there, but it's just it's reducing, right
42:27
How much value you plan to level.
42:28
Itself out. How much value do you put into
42:30
the? Arrows themselves.
42:32
I haven't made arrows in a long. Time.
42:36
I've always used Fletcher's. Yeah.
42:38
It's Blaine Prowse of some stalker.
42:41
Yeah. Makes beautiful arrows.
42:44
Do you shoot different weight? Arrows depending on the bow.
42:49
Not so much as I I used to. What I've found is it doesn't
42:55
really matter that much. Like if you have, I mean, if you
42:59
have a big 80 LB bow, you don't want to shoot an arrow that's
43:03
spine for a 45 or a 50 LB bow, right?
43:06
It's just bad for your bow. Arrow is going to be really
43:09
weird in flight. And then the opposite.
43:12
You don't want to shoot a 50 LB bow with an arrow spine for a
43:15
war bow or like A at 80 LB bow or whatever.
43:19
So you want to have some, you know, your draw weight and your
43:23
arrow spine weight need to be close.
43:25
But I found matching it up so that it's on par doesn't seem to
43:31
really make a difference. So, you know, the average weight
43:35
I shoot is about anywhere from 60 to 75 lbs.
43:40
And in that weight range, I shoot arrows, they're typically
43:43
spying for around 50 to 60 LB bows.
43:48
And it's just seems to work beautifully, almost better than
43:51
if I was to spine pick an arrow of the spine for an 80 LB bow.
43:55
So I don't know what that's about, but yeah, yeah.
44:01
So with only 5 to 10. Percent of your time carving
44:03
bows. What do you do with the rest of
44:04
your time? The rest of the time.
44:07
I, my father, husband, I look after my property, which is so
44:13
much work, endless work, renoing and then work as well.
44:20
Yeah, landscape design and construction, exterior home,
44:24
Reno's. So we're building elaborate
44:27
outdoor living spaces with an emphasis on big Timbers, you
44:31
know, nice custom beams. That's awesome.
44:34
Yeah. I mill all of my wood.
44:36
Customs, so you know you're getting a sundeck from me.
44:38
There's No 4 by fours or two by fours or two by sixes.
44:41
It's it's all true, 6 by sixes, 2 sevens, you know, 3 by eights,
44:47
10 by fifteens of all big crazy stuff and.
44:51
That takes a lot of time. That's almost all my time, to be
44:54
honest, during the day. And do you have a crew for that
44:57
or are you? Working mostly on your own.
44:58
I have one guy I work with. Yeah, Master Carpenter and I, so
45:03
we both, I mean, I usually come up with the designs with the
45:06
customer and then refine the designs with the with my guy.
45:10
How'd you get into that? It seems like a natural process
45:16
of evolution from designing gardens and being obsessed with
45:19
wood and making bows and making furniture to progressing up and
45:23
making, making structures. So you got into woodwork early?
45:27
Yeah. Yeah.
45:28
What was your influence for that?
45:30
I got into well. Probably going to bow making
45:34
before any of the woodworking, but shortly after bow making got
45:38
into furniture making, outdoor furniture, you know what,
45:41
harvest tables for patios and whatnot.
45:44
It just kind of ballooned from there.
45:47
I've just always been obsessed with hands on creative stuff
45:50
like hard art, pen and ink drawings, carving, making stuff
45:56
with my hands, visioning it in my mind and then seeing it burst
46:00
into a thing you can use. It's there's nothing like it for
46:04
me. And then you got a passion for.
46:06
Bonsai's right passion for bonsai's, Yeah.
46:09
I have too many bonsai's, where did that come from?
46:12
Love of nature and. Trees grandfather when I was
46:16
young. He had a collection I remember
46:18
vividly being, I don't know, maybe 9 or 10 years old and
46:24
being fascinated by these beautiful little trees that
46:26
were, you know, 2 feet tall, but they looked as ancient as proper
46:31
old growth. And it's just, yeah, it was kind
46:33
of a similar thing, similar attraction with the boast.
46:36
Yeah. It's just there's like a
46:38
mystical thing there. Where did you where did you grow
46:41
up? I grew up on bank around.
46:44
Victoria, Yeah, All right, Yeah. And then moved.
46:46
Out to central Saanich. Later on in life and get away
46:49
from the city, be more of the rural countryside, quiet, less
46:53
people and some of your bonsais are.
46:55
Pretty ancient, aren't they? Yeah, for sure.
46:57
I mean, I've got a few that are probably pushing 5-6 hundred
47:02
years old. Wow.
47:04
Yeah. Holy shit.
47:05
Yeah, yeah. Wild rescues.
47:09
You know, I've got some contacts in the logging industry and it's
47:14
not often, but every now and then they'll cut, they'll cut
47:17
their logging roads through areas where it's, it's not quite
47:21
Alpine. It's like exposed rocky areas.
47:24
And there'll be blasting right through there driving excavators
47:26
over these things. And I'll get a call or an
47:29
e-mail. I'll be like, hey, check out
47:30
this spot. I'll go check it out.
47:32
And sometimes they're right there.
47:34
They've built the road already, but you've got one kind of
47:36
hanging off the Cliff like it's going to die.
47:39
So. So what makes it?
47:42
Bonsai. Like what when you're finding
47:44
them in nature? Is it just a small SO?
47:47
The definition of, yeah, the definition of bonsai in Japanese
47:52
pretty much just simply translates to a potted tree.
47:58
But I mean, it's obviously more than that.
47:59
It's you're, you're capturing like an ancient aspect of nature
48:04
and kind of housing it and caring for it.
48:07
So for me, what makes a bonsai tree is it's just a small,
48:11
stunted, extremely old tree. It exhibits just ancientness in
48:17
the trunk. And then you've got the
48:18
beautiful like sort of young, youthful foliage.
48:21
So it's so you know, it's a display of, of, of life really
48:26
in a tree. It's it's, they're just, it's
48:30
like, it's like bow wood. It's just like this.
48:32
You're looking at, you know, a you would stave that you've made
48:34
into a bow and it's like it's there's ancientness there and
48:38
there's something, there's an attraction there to the
48:39
ancientness to me. So, so cool.
48:42
And some of yours aren't potted. Right.
48:43
They're just like growing on rocks, some of them.
48:46
Yeah, I've got. Some planted on rock slabs.
48:48
That's typically because the the root balls are too big to fit
48:51
into a pot. Really hard to find bonsai pots
48:54
that are of of size. But I also just, I love the
48:59
artistic aspect of, of growing them on rock slabs.
49:03
It looks like you've taken it. You've just taken this chunk off
49:06
the mountain, like saved it and brought it home and you just
49:08
care for it. It's like it's grown out of the
49:10
mountain or grown out of the rock itself.
49:13
So the planting them on rock slabs is it's an artistic thing.
49:18
Yeah. They're so beautiful.
49:19
What are? Some of the types?
49:20
That's crazy. Well, on Vancouver Island, we've
49:24
got a few. We've got yellow cedar, which is
49:27
actually not a yellow cedar at all.
49:28
It's a Cypress, camisiparous nifcotensis.
49:32
It's the Latin, we only have one true cedar, which is the red
49:35
cedar. They may call right bonsai if
49:38
you can find them, but the the kings of the bonsai world on
49:42
Vancouver Island is the shore pine and mountain hemlock and
49:47
they just land themselves. They've got all the qualities.
49:49
They've got beautiful ancient park.
49:50
The foliage is small and compact, so it lends itself to
49:54
that look of being, you know, like a life sized tree to scale
49:59
but scaled down. Yeah, I think we're really lucky
50:04
on Vancouver Island. We've got 2 of like the finest
50:06
species of trees in the world for bonsai.
50:08
They're quite sought after. A friend of mine up Ireland,
50:12
Peter Wilson, is a prolific collector and three of his or
50:17
not three of his 3030 of his finest trees were all mountain
50:21
hemlock and they were scooped up by a guy in Kentucky.
50:25
I forget the guy's name but he looked everywhere for these
50:29
trees and Peter was the only guy that that had them.
50:34
So make sure we get some photos of yours for.
50:36
The book, because they are really cool.
50:38
That'd be cool. Yeah, that'd.
50:39
Be neat brings them up to the workshop and position them
50:44
around like decor. Wow, I'll just send Ella.
50:46
Ella can wander around and find all your boun's eyes.
50:49
And yeah, yeah, take some photos while I'm carving.
50:51
That's cool for sure. Yeah.
50:53
Do you ever collaborate with other?
50:55
Bowyers with ideas or Yeah for sure.
51:01
Yeah, I've had lots of talks online with Corey Hawk about
51:06
about the whole process, the creativity and different bow
51:11
materials and, you know, what can be done, what can't be done,
51:15
that kind of thing. See with Ryan Gothier.
51:19
Wizard goat to you, Scott. Fantastic bow maker.
51:23
Lots of great ideas. I've talked with him a bit.
51:26
Yeah. Lots of other guys, too.
51:28
Yeah, I love talking with other bow makers.
51:30
It's great. You know, it's nice having
51:33
other, like connecting with other brains and just seeing
51:37
what can happen. Yeah.
51:39
And do you hunt? Not really, no, no.
51:42
No, not right now. A friend of mine, good friend of
51:48
mine, Christian Up Island. We found this spot.
51:50
Do you know where Mount Cane is? Yes, Yeah.
51:53
Just north of Mount. King, we found this spot that is
51:56
just like rubs everywhere like it looks very, very promising,
52:00
so that may change. Nice.
52:04
I haven't either and. Here I'm I'm inspired to, but in
52:07
Costa Rica we can't. He can't really, no.
52:10
That's that's my. Understanding, I haven't really
52:12
looked into it, but what I've heard is he can't.
52:15
And yeah, I I want food from it if I'm going to do it.
52:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you're a lot more
52:23
unrestricted here for sure. I mean, there's.
52:26
So. Much game here.
52:27
It's crazy. Have you ever haunted pheasant
52:30
before? I haven't haunted.
52:32
No, Yeah, if you do, it's a nice, it's a neat place to.
52:34
Start. It's a lot of fun.
52:36
You get up into the Alpine and that's actually kind of where I
52:39
discovered that you can get bonsai from.
52:41
It's up in the Alpine. I was up there with some friends
52:45
with our bows looking for pheasant, and we didn't find any
52:49
pheasant. We we did, but not as what we
52:51
thought we would. And but I found bonsai like, Oh
52:53
my God, like these things are everywhere.
52:55
Like the real deal, like ancient stuff.
52:58
So yeah. So Ting kind of led into bonsai,
53:01
I guess in a way. That's awesome.
53:03
That's a beautiful symmetry, kind of like, what is it?
53:07
Mr. Miyagi and karate and bonsai?
53:10
It's it's all part of the martial arts.
53:14
Yeah. Everything's been ethos.
53:15
Yeah. Everything leads to everything
53:17
else. How did you get the experience
53:19
with all? The leather work because you do
53:20
beautiful leather work on your bows.
53:22
I guess years ago I. Started making leather
53:25
sketchbooks. I was tired of the low quality
53:28
stuff you buy at the art shops and I wanted something it was a
53:31
bit more a bit more special. I contacted a guy in the
53:35
peninsula is a leather wholesaler, bought some hides
53:38
and kind of just bought some tools and went from there in
53:42
sketchbooks. Did some, made some belts and
53:45
got into stuff for archery like armed guards, handle wraps and
53:50
stuff like that. A lot of tool cases for bonsai,
53:54
like the roll up, old style scrolls like leather scrolls.
53:58
Yeah, yeah, I didn't get anything like super fancy, but I
54:03
didn't. Go like deep.
54:04
Into leather making kind of where it started.
54:08
Thanks. Thanks, I'd say I haven't really
54:10
worked with him. Much at all.
54:11
But when I was at Swiftwood bows with Waylon, I put a deer skin
54:15
handle on the bow and it was it was a lot easier than I.
54:18
Expected it to. Be yeah, when you have when you
54:21
have all the tools. And when I had someone like
54:23
Waylon saying here, do this, do that.
54:25
I was like, all right, yeah, leather works.
54:27
One of those things. You tried doing it with just an?
54:30
Exacto knife and a ruler and just.
54:32
It's a terrible experience. There's so many tools for
54:36
leather work that make it so much easier.
54:38
They almost do the work for you. Yeah.
54:41
And so you buy the leather. What about?
54:42
Your backing like your snakeskin and fish skin snakeskins I
54:47
pretty much. Have to go abroad for it
54:51
sometimes the interior BC but more often than not down to the
54:56
states. Contracts down there for
54:59
snakeskins. Fish skin is mostly local, just
55:04
hit up fishermen for it or. Yeah, not so.
55:08
Much like professional, like career fishermen, but like just
55:10
buddies to fish, you know, don't bring stuff back.
55:13
I'll trade them. I'll go with them.
55:17
Sturgeon, though, you can't fish sturgeon in BC.
55:19
It's illegal. But I've got some contacts in
55:21
Washington state where once a year I think you're allowed to
55:24
take. I think it's like one or two per
55:27
person. And the guy I get the certain
55:30
skins from, he actually gets it from the the fishing guides.
55:36
You take multiple people out, they come back, they process the
55:39
fish and most of these guys don't want the skins.
55:41
You're just throwing it out. He grabs them and puts them to
55:45
good use. Nice, beautiful stuff.
55:48
What? About the horns the.
55:50
Horns like antler. Material and whatnot, yeah, for
55:53
your. Knox Cowhorn Material.
55:55
Again, like other bow makers. Other Craftsman, they often have
55:59
nothing to do with bow making. Find how to get a hold of them
56:01
and yeah, go from there. I just, I came back to the farm
56:06
a couple days. Ago and one of our goats died
56:08
while I was away and was buried and she had big beautiful horns.
56:13
Are they black? Black horns no.
56:16
No more white. Kind of.
56:18
Creamy color. Yeah.
56:19
I was talking to the farm, our farm manager, and I'm like, you
56:22
think we could dig up, you know, that goat and get the horns?
56:25
And so yesterday we dug up the goat.
56:28
Oh shit. Cut off the horns.
56:30
And it was amazing the horns still had blooded.
56:32
That's a that's a first for go making, Yeah.
56:34
Still had fresh blood and the goats I think been underground.
56:37
For almost a year. Oh my God.
56:39
Really. Yeah.
56:40
Wow. Yeah, we cut them off and it
56:42
just like poured like a. Gush blood out of it.
56:45
Wow, after a year. Yeah, maybe it hasn't been quite
56:48
that long, but it's it's been in the earth for a.
56:50
While it was. That's impressive.
56:52
So yeah, I got some goat horns now.
56:54
Nice, nice. Do the.
56:54
Bandsaw, yeah. Yeah, good.
56:57
Yeah, it's tough stuff, Yeah, for sure.
56:59
Band saw is like the. Awesome, best tool to have.
57:02
For that, that stuff, yeah. Nice, Yeah.
57:06
So what's any other? Bow styles that you're looking
57:10
at experimenting with in the near future or you continue with
57:13
this Ridge bow for a while. I'm going to go.
57:15
With the Ridge bow for. A little while.
57:18
And that's what I'd like. Is that what I'm making with
57:20
you? Yeah.
57:21
Yeah. Exactly, Yeah.
57:23
We'll be doing a I don't think we'll flip the tips.
57:26
Maybe we'll have time, but I think we'll go for a more Coast
57:30
Salish centric style like a typical straight line flat bow.
57:35
Yeah, beautiful things. Sorry I cut you off.
57:39
What else? You.
57:41
Right, right. I've been looking at the.
57:43
Inuit cable bows, Yeah. I thought those are really
57:46
fascinating. There's some Eastern woodland
57:50
styles I'd like to experiment with.
57:51
Of course. I mean, there isn't one type of
57:53
bow with Eastern woodland. Eastern woodland is like
57:56
hundreds of different tribes and they all have their different
58:00
bows for the most part. So there's a few in there.
58:06
The cable bow really interests me though.
58:07
The Inuit cable bow I'd like to try doing that with.
58:11
Try the traditional one with their traditional materials they
58:14
used just for the experience. Then I want to try my own
58:18
materials and see what I can come up with.
58:21
Maybe that's you would Osage. Maybe that's a combination of
58:24
different words, I'm not sure yet.
58:25
But just the the shape and the aesthetic of it I find really,
58:30
really fascinating. That's awesome.
58:31
Well, I really am excited. To come join you Carba bow yeah
58:36
man, it's going to be great check out I can't wait I.
58:39
Love watching this thing unfold. I can't wait to see the the
58:43
finished product. I mean, in, in my experience, I
58:46
don't think there's anything like it.
58:48
You know, there's the Bowyer's Bible series, there's lots of
58:50
great books on archery and bow making, but there's nothing
58:54
really that I can see like what you're doing.
58:56
So it's no we that's the feedback we're getting from.
58:59
Everyone. So it's, it's been really
59:01
positive and it's it's going to be an incredible journey.
59:05
It's already been and we're just really getting into it.
59:09
And where, where you off the Nets?
59:12
You're off to Europe, right? Yeah, so we have 3 Bowie, we
59:15
you. Ryan Gottier and and Jamie
59:18
MacDonald all here in British Columbia.
59:20
So that's I think all three of you are in August.
59:22
So I've got a couple weeks off right now just doing a lot of
59:24
podcasting before we go. And then basically the lineup is
59:32
Bamboo Bow, Steph and Tim in the Netherlands.
59:35
Cool. And then we head over.
59:38
I think we're. Going to make that.
59:39
Makes gorgeous boss. Is he the one that's doing the
59:42
the Japanese style bows? Yeah.
59:43
The Yumi bows, Yeah. Yumi bows.
59:45
Yeah. Yeah.
59:46
And then we. Head over to.
59:50
Austria with Sparrow bows. OK, we're going to make
59:54
something. Barrow bows?
59:55
Yeah, that's. Is that guy, is he an
59:59
archaeologist? I don't know.
1:00:01
OK. I know of a guy over there
1:00:04
who's. An archaeologist by trade, bow
1:00:06
maker by hobby. And he makes crazy bows.
1:00:09
Like they're. Yeah, like he's finishing on
1:00:12
them. His next level.
1:00:13
I'm not sure if it's Sparrow bows, though.
1:00:15
I could have a mistaken or something else nice.
1:00:18
Yeah. And from there we head.
1:00:20
To Switzerland, yeah, with Simon and trying to remember his name,
1:00:27
but he's at South Bows dot chapter.
1:00:30
Oh yeah. Instagram yeah makes.
1:00:32
Amazing bows. We're still undecided on what
1:00:34
we're going to. Make he's he's given me like 10
1:00:37
different options like maybe we make 2 He's really enthusiastic
1:00:40
about it and then we. Fly from.
1:00:45
There to Sweden, OK, we're meeting with pair.
1:00:50
Of. What's his handle?
1:00:52
He's a Nordic self. Bows.
1:00:55
Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:00:56
He makes a lot of fish. Backed.
1:00:57
White bows, right? Yeah, I think so.
1:01:00
White Woods, yeah. I forget what we're making.
1:01:03
There, Yeah, I follow. Appreciate it then to.
1:01:07
Yeah. And then down to Italy, brush
1:01:09
Italy for, let's see, who are we going with there?
1:01:16
Enrico Muraji. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
1:01:20
Other good formatures? Arkaika.
1:01:22
Bows. Yeah, right, right.
1:01:24
It's neat seeing. I feel like in the last 10 years
1:01:27
there's a lot of new bow makers. They're not like it's not
1:01:30
prolific, but like it's definitely there seems to be an
1:01:34
uptick. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
1:01:37
We finish. Off Europe and Spain.
1:01:40
Oh yeah, yeah, with Nacho. Marco.
1:01:43
OK, he has a bow school there. Is he on social media?
1:01:48
Yeah, he is, I think Arco. Escuela so bow school in
1:01:52
Spanish. I think that's what he is.
1:01:54
I don't think that's all that. If you could send me a link to
1:01:56
them, that'd be that. 'D be cool, Yeah, for sure.
1:01:59
I'm just going to double check. On that too.
1:02:01
And then from there we're well he wants us to stay a little bit
1:02:04
longer. He's going to we're going to go
1:02:06
harvest some wood with him because he does so we'll
1:02:10
probably be there for a week cool in Spain.
1:02:13
So that'll be a lot of. Fun.
1:02:14
And then we head to Kyrgyzstan. Wow.
1:02:21
Yeah. And that's the.
1:02:22
Only place we're not making. A bow because he does this is a
1:02:26
giri tangri of tangri bows and he only does hornbows as you had
1:02:31
a hornbows Oh yeah. So yeah, they take.
1:02:35
Too long. So he's going to show us the.
1:02:36
Process and theoretically he's going to teach us some melted
1:02:40
archery. Let's see how that goes.
1:02:43
I don't I don't have much horse riding experience, so we'll see.
1:02:49
But he's like that if you're if you follow him or if you don't
1:02:54
follow him on Instagram do because his videos of mounted
1:02:56
archery are insane. Archery is so.
1:03:00
Cool. He.
1:03:02
Is absolutely. Insane backtracking in Spain,
1:03:06
Nacho Marco was Arcaria con Marco.
1:03:09
So archery with with Marco, Arcaria con Marco.
1:03:12
But I'll send it to you, OK? And after Kazakhstan, we fly.
1:03:16
Down. To we're hoping hoping to South
1:03:19
Africa. We're meeting with Johnny
1:03:22
Snimmon of Hartwood bows in South Africa, but we're still
1:03:27
trying to get dates finalized for meeting with him.
1:03:30
So he makes a lot of bows for the movie industry.
1:03:33
So any, any time a film needs some authentic bows, really neat
1:03:37
he does. He does though, so he gets
1:03:38
pretty immersed. In it last time we heard.
1:03:40
From him, he said he had just come up from air after making I
1:03:43
think like a couple 100 bows or something.
1:03:46
He he goes down hard to make the bows and then he comes up for a
1:03:50
breather. So hopefully we can make that
1:03:52
one work. That one's oh, and then almost
1:03:56
forgot, hopefully down Santana. Yeah, right.
1:03:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I follow that guy.
1:04:01
Makes nice boats. Yeah, we're still trying to get
1:04:04
that 1 sorted out. So that would be probably a
1:04:06
separate trip back to the States.
1:04:08
Yeah. Sweet.
1:04:10
That's the. Journey, A lot of different
1:04:12
people are coming up. Along the way too, but I think
1:04:14
we're going to probably cap it at 15 for this book and I would
1:04:17
love to do round two. I'd love to do book 2 and and go
1:04:20
do it again. But what do you think about
1:04:24
after a book? Doing a documentary.
1:04:28
Well, it's funny you mention that because my son, he's.
1:04:31
Quite young, he's only 12, but he spent his he's in a very
1:04:35
artistic school in Costa Rica. And this year they did film and
1:04:40
he was the cameraman for a lot of different films and they fell
1:04:42
in love with it. He's got a drone, He's doing his
1:04:45
own drone surf photography. And he's really bummed that he
1:04:48
can't be involved in more of these.
1:04:50
But he'll come to your place and do some filming.
1:04:52
But he says if we do the second one, he wants to be along and
1:04:56
film it. So yeah, that would be.
1:05:00
Pretty. Amazing to make a documentary.
1:05:02
Yeah, I mean bow. Making archery is so dynamic to.
1:05:04
Capture it in a documentary. It would just be like, perfect.
1:05:08
Yeah, that's really that's where the book.
1:05:13
Idea came from because originally I just wanted to go
1:05:15
study under a bunch of different teachers.
1:05:17
And then I thought, well, there's a story there.
1:05:19
And I came to realize, well, that story kind of needs to have
1:05:22
photos. And so it just kind of went from
1:05:24
there. It definitely is a visual thing,
1:05:27
I think to fully capture it. Yep, Yep.
1:05:29
I can see your book being a segue into.
1:05:31
Some kind of a documentary so that they're they're two parts
1:05:34
of the same story. Yeah.
1:05:36
So we'll see. I'm really.
1:05:39
Blessed, feel so grateful that I get to do this with my daughter
1:05:43
and my son, at least here in BC, gets to tag along.
1:05:46
He's actually going to be in Switzerland too with us, so he's
1:05:49
going to get to see some of it. So great adventure it is man.
1:05:54
It is and. I really appreciate you being
1:05:56
involved hey likewise and encouraging others.
1:06:00
Likewise. It's awesome.
1:06:01
I love seeing the craft. Growing it's, you know, it's, I
1:06:06
could go, I could go deep on it. I don't give those time left.
1:06:08
But I think it's a very important thing for a human
1:06:12
being to do. Not necessarily the bow making,
1:06:15
I mean for sure, but just holding a bow and shooting it.
1:06:18
I think it's something everyone should do at some in some
1:06:21
capacity, absolutely. Yeah, you mentioned Corey uses
1:06:24
it for. Healing can.
1:06:26
Use it for all kinds of healing. Just you can just decompression,
1:06:31
just relax. Just, you know, unwind.
1:06:35
Practice that. What's the Japanese words not
1:06:38
not zazen, mushy Lucian. I forget how you pronounce it,
1:06:44
but essentially means like you can be sitting and doing
1:06:48
nothing, you can be doing archery, but it's the the state
1:06:50
of your mind. You're not thinking about the
1:06:52
news of the day. You're you're just sort of
1:06:56
you're shutting off that side of your brain and opening up the
1:06:58
side of your brain. It's just pure awareness and
1:07:01
attentiveness. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's A and
1:07:05
there's a lot. There's not a lot, right?
1:07:08
Now, but there is a movement of archery therapy, I don't know if
1:07:11
you've heard of it at all, but there are some addiction centers
1:07:13
in particular and trauma centers that are using archery as tools.
1:07:17
And so I've. Started to do that in Costa Rica
1:07:19
as well. Offering a blend of of
1:07:22
acupuncture and Qigong and archery to help people heal and
1:07:28
it's I did not expect it to be a healing tool.
1:07:31
When I got. Into it.
1:07:33
But the more the more I work with it, the more I realize that
1:07:36
this is actually a tremendous tool.
1:07:38
Yeah, yeah, I can totally see that.
1:07:40
Yeah, I'd love to learn more about that.
1:07:42
Jenny links you want to send me? Yeah, can do so good talking to
1:07:46
you. Man and let's maybe 2.
1:07:50
Meet up before we. We start carving a bow.
1:07:52
I'll come over and yeah, we should check.
1:07:53
How long are you on for? You're here for the.
1:07:55
Whole OK, yeah, yeah, we don't leave in for Europe until I
1:07:59
think end of. August.
1:08:00
So OK, cool the three BC boaters including you and the rest of
1:08:05
the time I'm here on the farm and I promised my family I
1:08:08
wouldn't do much boat making and I'm hurting me two two and I'm
1:08:12
starting on 1/3 boat for three days.
1:08:17
I came back and I realized I had a few that.
1:08:19
Were already in process. I'm like, I just finished those
1:08:22
and you know how it is my 20 minutes out in the barn and we
1:08:26
got lots of light right now. I mean, you can get up at, you
1:08:28
know. At 5:00 it's you can work
1:08:30
outside at 5. Got a couple hours in and they
1:08:32
won't even know what happened exactly.
1:08:36
Yeah, awesome. Appreciate you.
1:08:38
Thank you so much for doing this.
1:08:51
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