Latest / Startup Dad / Parenting in face of Technology with Tech CEO Chet Kittleson at TinCan | Dad of 3

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Parenting in face of Technology with Tech CEO Chet Kittleson at TinCan | Dad of 3 · Startup Dad

• [00:00:00] Chet Kittleson: there's a finite amount of time and that if you're gonna work on something, it should be something that really matters to you. and so at home that is like, hey, if we're gonna like, commit to a sport, it should be something that really matters to us, because otherwise it takes a lot of time away from just like eating dinner together outside on the back deck or whatever. You don't need to have kids in order to care about things, but like, I think it really helped shape important that was for me. [00:00:21] Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad, the podcast where we dive deep into the lives of dads who are also leaders in the world of startups and business. I'm your host, Adam Fishman. Our kids are being thrust into a digital first world, and in today's episode, my guest talked about how he's trying to bring that back to an analog one. [00:00:41] Adam Fishman: I'm joined by Chet Kittleson, who is a serial founder, dad of three husband, and the co-founder of Tin Can in Analog Phone for Kids. That works over your existing internet service, but acts like the phone we all had as a kid. This was an amazing conversation. We talked about the ways in which we can claw back our sanity and focus on analog experiences. [00:01:06] Adam Fishman: How to balance your time when you're incredibly passionate about the thing you're building, but also have three kids and a spouse running your house like a business, and with intentionality advice to other founders who are thinking about becoming parents and parents becoming founders, and how much optimism he has for the future. [00:01:25] Adam Fishman: If you like what you hear, please subscribe to Startup AD on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple. I hope you enjoy today's conversation with Chet Kittleson. [00:01:34] Chet Kittleson: Welcome, Chet Kittleson to Startup Dad,Aw man. Thanks Adam. I'm so excited to be here. [00:01:40] Adam Fishman: Cool. I invited you on this pod because all of the parents in my various social media feeds, mostly Facebook families groups and things like that are talking about your company Tin Can. [00:01:54] Chet Kittleson: [00:01:54] Adam Fishman: I think if I'm reading the tea leaves correctly that the inspiration for TinCan came from your childhood and maybe a desire to raise your kids a little bit more intentionally, like an intentional analog way, given that we live in, the most digital, world on the planet. [00:02:12] Adam Fishman: so can you tell me a little bit more about what TinCan is and the inspiration for your company? [00:02:17] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. Well, yeah. [00:02:25] Chet Kittleson: So first let me just actually tell you listeners what TinCan is. So TinCan, we call it the landline reinvented for friends. the idea is to bring back a very simple voice to voice connection mechanism. we have two different products. We've got a, one called the Flashback that's this fun retro throwback. [00:02:35] Chet Kittleson: It looks just like the phone you had when you were a kid. And then we have our own fully custom Tin Can. That's kind of a fun form factor, but ultimately it is a, feels a lot like a home phone, that pairs of the Parent Companion app and just allows you, set up your kids so they can call specific people that you want them to be able to call, whether it's an external cell phone like grandma or your cell phone or nine one one or another kid who has a Tin Can, for what we call a can to can call. [00:02:58] Chet Kittleson: tin, can you sort of have to go all the way back to my childhood to really understand it? I certainly didn't know it then that I would start TinCan now. but There's a couple of things that I would share. one, I was an incredibly social being. [00:03:13] Chet Kittleson: So I was the landline kid. It is the way that I communicated. It was my first social network. when I was bored, my mom would say, go find a friend to play with. [00:03:21] Chet Kittleson: Fast forward, to present day. My kids are now 10, eight and four. I have a daughter, who's my oldest, and then I have two boys. [00:03:28] Chet Kittleson: and I have felt a lot of angst and guilt over how, little autonomy they have over who they invest in, who they talk to, who they connect with. That's friends, but also grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins. All the rest. we're very much on the, keep 'em away from a full tablet or full cell phone for as long as we can. [00:03:49] Chet Kittleson: there's a longer, very specific moment in time where the idea for TinCan came to me at my kid's school. I was talking to parents, but ultimately that was where the idea for Tin Can was born. [00:03:58] Adam Fishman: Yeah. And I see a lot of parents coming across it, because they're kids are getting to an age where they're, you know, they've read something like free range parents. They're like, I want my kid to be able to go figure their own stuff out like I did when I was a kid [00:04:12] Adam Fishman: like, call up some friends and go to the park 'cause they're, you know, 10 like your daughter or something, which is, you know, pretty good age for that. and then they're like, but you know, I don't wanna get him an Apple watch. We don't have a house phone, or I'm definitely not gonna get them an iPhone or a cell phone. Like, because once you do that, you're like opening them up to this whole world of just like crazy town out there on the, on the internet. [00:04:35] Adam Fishman: It's like, you know, giving 'em the keys to the car and being like, good luck, you're 10. [00:04:38] Adam Fishman: so I'm very excited about the existence of this. Does it work over like VoIP or is it like, [00:04:44] Chet Kittleson: Yep. Yeah. wifi enabled, phone device. [00:04:47] Adam Fishman: Cool. And then everyone gets like its own phone number. [00:04:50] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. So we have, we have two plans. One is we call the can, two can plan. Um, with that one you just get right now a five digit extension and that is how Tin Cans call each other. [00:05:03] Chet Kittleson: and that's totally free. There's no subscription. It's, we sort of think about it as like, it's like the walkie-talkie [00:05:08] Chet Kittleson: in the kids' room, but much more functional. [00:05:09] Chet Kittleson: 'cause you don't have to coordinate when they turn on and charge the batteries and all that stuff. It's always plugged into the wall. and then we have what we call the party line plan, which is 10 bucks a month. It's 9, 9 9 a month, or nine, nine bucks a year. And that comes with, when you go through onboarding, you can choose your own local numbers. [00:05:25] Chet Kittleson: You search by error code, you find a number you like. we provision that number for you. And then for like a grandparent or a parent calling your Tin Can, they would just, you know, I save my daughter Emma, as Emma and my phone, and I call her like I call anybody else. [00:05:37] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Very cool. And before we started recording, I was saying, you know, oh, I think my kids are like a little old for it now. You know, my daughter's about to be 13, my son's 10, same age as as your daughter. and I was like, they have Apple watches now, although that's the bane of my existence. and you were like, hold on, slow your roll. Like, they're not really too old for it. So what's sort of like the good age range for this product? [00:06:01] Chet Kittleson: So we have, plenty of kids as old as 15 and then we've got kids as young as three. I, I think three, four. That's like a parental investment. I love it. I support it. I think the kid will be even more inclined to use it 'cause they'll grow up seeing it. But I think, you know, a kid probably won't start actually independently using it until like, you know, if they're really social, maybe five or you know, six. [00:06:21] Chet Kittleson: but I think, the Apple Watch or the Gab or any of the other like, totally fine with those products, support them. It's a different, intent. [00:06:30] Chet Kittleson: Those are typically focused on safety, tracking, communication with parents. They're not social devices. [00:06:37] Chet Kittleson: TinCan is very much focused on teaching your kid how to have a conversation with no distractions, allowing them to plan a play date. [00:06:44] Chet Kittleson: I love that. I also feel like kids have lost a little bit of this art of conversation. Like I used to call my friends when I was a kid and like inevitably their parents would answer the phone, and I have to have to like navigate that chat with them for a little bit. And like, you know, you're talking to adults and stuff like that. [00:07:00] Adam Fishman: Nowadays kids are just like grunting at each other over like a cell phone or something. So, [00:07:04] Adam Fishman: or texting and just like not even engaging in, in one-on-one conversation, [00:07:08] Chet Kittleson: yeah. And communication is so important. like as you grow, communication obviously becomes a very important part of whatever job you have for the most part. But also, there was a study, basically, they put kids in stressful situations. [00:07:24] Chet Kittleson: I think it was like they had to solve math problems in public or something like that. Like, like vocally in front of people. and then they put them into three different groups. one group got to see their mom. One group got to text their mom, and one group got to call their mom. The two groups that got to actually communicate with their voice to their mom, their bodies released oxytocin. [00:07:43] Chet Kittleson: So the bonding chemical. So their heart rate slowed, they calmed down, they felt seen. the group that texted there was no chemical effect. It's not connection. and so I, you know, for us it is a vital skill that we think kids need to learn. but also a thing that just makes them a healthier individual to feel connected to Grandma or, you know, who, whoever it might be. [00:08:02] Adam Fishman: To [00:08:03] Adam Fishman: That's so cool. [00:08:04] Adam Fishman: so, I'm curious, what has worked for you when you think about balancing founder life and also trying to be there for your young kids, who I'm sure have a ton of activities and needs and things that they want to do. So how's that work balancing founder of hardware company with being a dad of three? [00:08:25] Chet Kittleson: Still working on that? I think the, [00:08:28] Chet Kittleson: the thing that is most important to me is to put my phone somewhere where it is inaccessible during what I'll call family hours, which for me is generally five until bedtime or five, you know, five 30 at the latest until bedtime. I have been very good at getting home at the right time between five and five 15. [00:08:46] Chet Kittleson: And, when I can put my phone in the bedroom, that helps a lot. I've tried lots of different devices. There's a thing called Brick. [00:08:53] Chet Kittleson: I actually really loved it. I don't know why I'm not using it, to be totally honest, because I thought it was great. [00:08:57] Adam Fishman: where you touch your phone to it and it like deactivates it basically, [00:09:00] Chet Kittleson: you, you basically set it up to say, I don't want any of these apps to work other than X or I want every app to work other than X. You, you sort of have the choice and I loved it. I would actually Brick my phone and there's a physical device that you put. On the fridge or you know, it, it, it's a magnet. [00:09:16] Chet Kittleson: you Brick your device and then I would leave. And the cool thing about it is the only way to unb Brick your device is to touch that same NFC, that same little, uh, magnet they give you. And so I had really no choice. There's like five emergency un Bricks, but then after that you can't do anything. If you delete the app, it'll open, but then you lose all your settings. [00:09:34] Chet Kittleson: So for me, it, it was pretty effective. yeah, for me, when I put my phone away, that's the best thing. But it's hard. I mean, I've never been more addicted to a thing in my entire life. [00:09:42] Chet Kittleson: I care so much. I feel like we're creating a better world, and we've had such an absurd response, in our first nine months. [00:09:49] Chet Kittleson: I've never experienced anything like this. and every time I look at my phone, there's something really interesting. there's a really influential person that sent us a message talking about how much I love Tin Can, or there's some new pr, you know, whatever it is. And so I'm like, I, it's hard not to wanna look at my phone. [00:10:04] Chet Kittleson: so yeah, it's, a work in progress. I feel like I've got some, you know, tools that I put in place and, and I'm still definitely trying to figure it out. [00:10:11] Adam Fishman: Awesome. Well, maybe I can do a promo thing with you guys and give away one of these phones to people who support this podcast in some way. So [00:10:20] Adam Fishman: we'll see. That would be very fun. it's the perfect target audience for you. [00:10:25] Adam Fishman: so you mentioned, um, you're still working on it, right? [00:10:28] Adam Fishman: When it comes to like the balance, where would you say that you've fallen down or failed [00:10:34] Chet Kittleson: I mean, I think pre Tin Can, I just wasn't a distracted dad. I have my own daddy issues. My dad left when I was four and I had no relationship with him. And so I think I have a very high bar I had this vision of what a good dad was. and it's probably a completely Impossible vision, but I've always, you know, I've always strived for that vision building TinCan as a part of that vision. [00:10:57] Chet Kittleson: I wanted to build the perfect world for my kids, [00:11:00] Chet Kittleson: and I think this is a part of that world. and I think TinCan, you know, this adventure it's much more likely that at, during family hours, I'll be distracted. Dad, [00:11:09] Chet Kittleson: the thing I feel guilty over is, on one hand I'm convincing my kids of how important it is to live a connected analog life. And on the other hand, I've never been, you know, I've never had a harder time [00:11:20] Chet Kittleson: disconnecting. [00:11:21] Adam Fishman: this experience or sort of like, falling on your face a few times doing this? Like, what's that taught you? [00:11:26] Adam Fishman: you know, realizing that you're distracted, dad, and it's your company that's doing that to you, and that's, that's okay. But like, has it changed how you talk to your kids about it? I mean, in, in a sense it's a very positive thing that you're so into this and working really hard to bring it into the world. do you have to talk to your kids about it in a certain way so that they understand why dad's distracted? [00:11:51] Adam Fishman: Or do they yell when it's clear that you're off somewhere else in your, in your head? Like, how, how does that work? [00:11:57] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. Well, the answer is definitely both. Um, I do think in general, my wife and I do a pretty good job trying to treat our kids a little bit more adult than maybe I, I think a lot of parents do it, but we're, we're definitely in that camp. And so, they know TinCan, they helped me install the first. [00:12:15] Chet Kittleson: Hundred devices. They've helped with fulfillment. They've boxed, you know, they wanted to be a part of it. They were the first users of it. Their friends are beneficiaries of it. and so that helps. I can tell them, Hey, I've got a customer in Atlanta and their kid is so excited, they're having a hard time, and we don't have a large support team yet. [00:12:31] Chet Kittleson: Can I have 10 minutes to help them? I really want to. And they're like, oh, yeah, I, you know, I, I relate, I understand that that kid must be really excited. and so it is nice that I could sort of bring them into the business and they relate in a different way. And there are times where they're like, dad, where the heck are you? [00:12:45] Chet Kittleson: and I, you know, I have to find a way to like snap, snap myself out of it. [00:12:49] Adam Fishman: Yeah, but at least it's in your own head and not like staring at a phone, you know, that's, or maybe you're staring at a Tin Can, but I [00:12:56] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. [00:12:56] Chet Kittleson: Both. Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:58] Adam Fishman: [00:12:58] Adam Fishman: I wanna ask you a little bit about your partner, uh, your wife Lindsay, who is, a teacher and also a founder herself. She founded an art camp or started an art camp, sounds like. so tell me a little bit about, your life co-founder and I [00:13:11] Adam Fishman: put co-founder in air quotes, 'cause I think that's your, your terminology a little [00:13:15] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. Um, I tried to think about it that way. she's an art teacher. she started her own art camp. it's out of, uh, we have a, like a little art studio in our backyard. she's done five weeks of full summer camps this summer with five to eight kids per week. she's a great partner. [00:13:30] Chet Kittleson: She is, she's very focused on the family so she is a really good level set. And sometimes that's really hard 'cause when I'm feeling really addicted, it's like almost this, you're pulling me away. but. Subconsciously and consciously, I always know it's because I need to be pulled away. She's gonna listen to this and love that I'm, she's like, why don't you tell me that every time I'm pulling you away? [00:13:51] Chet Kittleson: but yeah, she has, she has a very, strong compass toward family, being together, being connected, being undistracted, going on trips together, getting, you know, out in the wilderness. and it's very different for me. I am, I've been in tech, I love career. I'm super ambitious. I'm super competitive. and so it is like a yin and yang where I sort of push her, one way and she pulls me the other. [00:14:15] Chet Kittleson: And sometimes that can be super painful and, you know, definitely causes arguments. But mostly I think we both, when we take a step back and appreciate this is a very important part of our marriage and probably why this is working. [00:14:26] Adam Fishman: Yeah. How have the two of you had to be intentional about like getting into alignment on your parental decision making? You obviously approached this from maybe a few different directions, so. [00:14:37] Chet Kittleson: One of the things that we are, we've talked a lot about and we've made some progress on, um, but I I, I don't want to over celebrate this 'cause it's a win that we haven't earned yet, I've mentioned this idea of, us being co-founders of the business that is the Kittleson house and, you know, I, I don't think our kids are our employees, but they're, you know, certainly, customers or something in that business. [00:15:00] Chet Kittleson: And, when you think about the way, if you, if any of you listening have ever run a business or been involved in a business, you are so absurdly intentional with looking back retroactively at what happened and what you can learn from it. adjusting to changing times, documenting what you want the next month or quarter or six months or a year to look like. [00:15:21] Chet Kittleson: And we think about parenting, which is a business. You literally have a P&L You have customers, you have a schedule, you have a partner, a co-founder, et cetera. the world changes so dramatically, so often, and you sort of just have this, we'll figure it out mentality. That's impossible. as a dad, I mean, I can say as a, as a married couple, as parents, mom and dad in our case, my daughter changes. [00:15:46] Chet Kittleson: I never take a step back to say, Hey, my daughter has changed. Am I parenting her the right way? Still? Have I made adjustments to her needs? Am I treating her more like an adult? Am I giving her more freedom, et cetera. I don't ever do that. And as parents, when we're thinking about our schedule, our kids are really into sports. [00:16:03] Chet Kittleson: We never take a step back and say, is this the year we want to focus on, arts and we're gonna tell our kids we're gonna take a year off from sports. We just do it and then we're exhausted and, you know, we end up bickering our fighting. And it's because we didn't adjust to the changing times. So my kids went on a trip, two of 'em to grandparents and one of 'em to a sleepaway camp. [00:16:20] Chet Kittleson: And we were at this restaurant on Alki in Seattle, called Marination. I pulled up a document and we went through and talked about what the goals might be for, you know, the next quarter and how we would make that happen. And one example of a decision is we need to have two weeknights per week free. [00:16:37] Chet Kittleson: which we did not have. I, I mean, three kids, we haven't had that in a long time. we don't have a social thing planned. There's no sport. And that might mean that we have to say, Hey, you know, I know you kind of like soccer, but you're not that into it. We're gonna take the fall off of soccer ' cause we have three kids and like, we just can't do three sports every single season. [00:16:53] Chet Kittleson: so anyway, we, we, we haven't earned a victory there, but we've started on it and I think we're both committed and excited about the idea of it. it's just, you know, business forces you to do it and with the household you have to force yourself to do it. [00:17:05] Adam Fishman: did your wife think it was funny or, you know, unique when you pulled up a document and you're like, all right, we're talking about the quarterly, it's time for the OKRs for the household. Let's talk about the quarterly goals. [00:17:20] Chet Kittleson: Yes. It wasn't, she was excited that I was working to create a system. 'cause I think she's much better at naturally having a system and I'm the one that's constantly blowing it up. And so I think she's very excited that I am like, trying to find my own way. Um, and she understands this is the way my mind works. [00:17:41] Chet Kittleson: But yeah, I mean, she was like, wait, you're like opening a, you're opening your note. Like what are you taking notes and notes on? Is this a document? Who do we submit it to? so yeah, she's, you know, she's an art. It's a very different minds work differently. [00:17:52] Adam Fishman: when you were thinking about founding TinCan, you know, and you talked about like having a pile of electronics on your, your kitchen table or your dining room table and your, that your wife was supportive of it. how did the two of you talk about diving back into the startup world with three kids? [00:18:10] Adam Fishman: Because I think before Tin Can, were you at a, you were at a bigger, maybe more stable company? [00:18:17] Adam Fishman: or [00:18:17] Chet Kittleson: no, no, So that, that conversation started two and a half years before Tin Can. When I left Redfin to start [00:18:23] Chet Kittleson: a real estate marketplace called Far Homes, I was at Redfin for a long time. It was awesome. I loved that company. I loved the leaders. I love the CEO Glen. He is still a good friend. I talked to him yesterday. [00:18:34] Chet Kittleson: it was a great job. I, I was paid, well, I had a great work-life balance. I sort of knew my way around. there was nothing wrong. I was always given opportunities to grow. So I was really stimulated mentally and I just had this insatiable itch that's been there forever. And, you know, this idea came up that I thought was novel and I thought I might be the good, a good fit for. [00:18:53] Chet Kittleson: And so it was a hard conversation, I think, for both of us. I think for on Lindsay's end, I'm not gonna tell her this podcast aired, but on, on Lindsay's end, I think on one hand she knows who I am and she wants to be supportive and she wants to like, let me be who I am and I know that. And on the other end, she knows that I have a tendency to want to do everything. [00:19:15] Chet Kittleson: and part of her job is, you know, unfortunately, sometimes I think probably to wrangle me and to Hey, like we, we, the family can't take this thing right now. and so I think this fell into that weird middle area where it's like, I, I get that this is an itch and I, I do believe it, but like also we have three young kids. [00:19:31] Chet Kittleson: What if you waited for like a few more years to cra like they're gonna be in a high school before we know it and they're not gonna want us to hang out with them. and so it was definitely a long conversation. and there was a lot of compromise on both ends where I had to, you know, really commit to certain things and, it's ended up working out. [00:19:46] Chet Kittleson: I think Tin Can has been harder. it's better in that we both care about what I'm doing a lot more. that's actually a weird way to put it, but like, it's more personal to our lifestyle with our kids. There's a natural connection point there in a way that the last business didn't have. but I'm also way because of that, way more addicted to it. [00:20:01] Chet Kittleson: And it's just working, like, you know, it's much more successful in its early days. And so that creates, like, I could work all the time. there's always something to do. [00:20:09] Chet Kittleson: so yeah, it was, it was hard. [00:20:11] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Uh, so you mentioned like kind of running the house like a business, ish, you know, having a quarterly goals, you know, being intentional about your household and having rules like, you know, two nights a week off and things like that. But what are some of the other systems that the two of you at have had to put together to make all this work? [00:20:33] Adam Fishman: I guess, especially as you got into TinCan and realized like, oh, there's, there's really something here. Like, there's a poll from the market for this thing. Like, [00:20:42] Chet Kittleson: Yeah [00:20:43] Adam Fishman: you had to do? [00:20:44] Chet Kittleson: I mean we're, we're 10 months into this journey. It's, you know, the September was us building prototypes. Really. November was when we actually were like, I think we have a business. Let's charge and see people will pay for it and all the rest. and so I think that's still very much in flight. me putting my phone away, being home consistently at, you know, between five and five 30 so I can be there to help with dinner. [00:21:04] Chet Kittleson: Or to make dinner and then to be there to eat dinner with the family and do bedtimes and all that. All the rest. we use a paper calendar that's the holy grail for us. Um, we've talked about different digital calendars. There's a bunch of 'em, but I think for, for Lindsay, and now for me, there's something really beautiful about the analog simplicity of, it's just a piece of paper. [00:21:23] Chet Kittleson: Everyone can see it right there. It doesn't have a battery, it doesn't glitch. and she would love to hear me celebrate that. 'cause that was, there was a lot of resistance over the paper calendar for a long time. But I, have come to love it. and so, yeah, I mean, I think right now it is just sort of this, this like contract of like, you know, there's family time and we're gonna prioritize that and then we organize our lives on a calendar and we make sure that we don't overbook and we have time to be bored and, you know, all that. [00:21:45] Adam Fishman: I wanted to ask you about one more framework, 'cause this kind of falls into the frameworks category, but, one of the things you, you told me about, as we were getting ready for this show is, um, and other, other dads, especially dads with three plus kids, have talked about the idea of one-on-one days [00:22:01] Adam Fishman: your kids. [00:22:02] Adam Fishman: you know, I have a couple of. questions like one, what are your one-on-one days? Uh, like what do you do on those?and then, you know, I also wanna know how you pull it off because it's just more stuff that is time consuming, you know? I mean, it's good, but it's still time consuming, [00:22:19] Chet Kittleson: Y Yeah. I view one-on-one days as crucial, and we don't do them near enough every time we do them. you know, either one of us, whether it's me with one of my kids or, or my wife with one of our kids, there's this sort of me like, that was powerful. Like it was way different. I was really connected. [00:22:37] Chet Kittleson: I was focused. The conversation was shockingly, you know, they're eight, 10, and almost five now. So like getting to the point where they're like, I can have an adult [00:22:45] Adam Fishman: Yeah, it's fun. [00:22:46] Chet Kittleson: can ask me really insightful questions. Yeah. All that. it, it kind of feels like a New Year's resolution to me, where like there's a certain moment each year where I'm like, all right, I gotta prioritize this. [00:22:55] Chet Kittleson: And I have two or three months where I do one with each of them. Then it kind of falls off because sports start and we get busy and there's just no time. and so I think I would say two things. When I am unable to prioritize them, I would still prioritize one-on-one time, even if the whole family's there. [00:23:10] Chet Kittleson: So I'd be like, Hey Thatcher, my son loves baseball. Both of them do, but I'll be like, let's go outside and play Catch Sam. I'm gonna play catch with that trip for a half hour. Just the two of us. We do that all the time. Baseball is a huge part of our relationship. and playing catch specifically, it's just like the most therapeutic back and forth. [00:23:26] Chet Kittleson: He's good now, so it's like we can actually play catch, and then I have that I'll, I'll play soccer with my, with my daughter, or she loves doing art to, you know, do some art together, which I'm horrible at. Um, and so I think like at the very least, you know, don't let great be the enemy good and just be like, Hey, let's go get a half hour outside. [00:23:42] Chet Kittleson: Yeah, the family's here, but like, this is just the two of us student hoops or whatever. [00:23:45] Chet Kittleson: I'm sure that, you know, you're in a founder community up, up there in the Seattle area, we know some of the same people, when you talk to other founders or maybe even younger founders who are thinking about becoming a parent or their parents and they're thinking about starting a company, like what do you. Tell them about your experience having done this a few times and then also worked at, you know, a bigger, more stable company. [00:24:13] Chet Kittleson: It depends on the day and how that day is going. Um, I am a huge fan of building from scratch. It is the most addicting, fun for the right personality type. it's a horrible experience for some people that, you know, like needing direction is not a bad thing. Some people are like amazing operators. They need a little bit of. [00:24:35] Chet Kittleson: They're not the one that wants to also like, take care of payroll and legal and compliance and everything else. and so, you know, if someone wants to do it, I'm pretty encouraging. I mean, if I'm being honest though, I'm an encourager. one of my best friends, back when we were like, we weren't married yet, this is back in like 2010 or 11, he like had a whi on a whim wanting to get a dog and he came to me. [00:24:57] Chet Kittleson: I was like, I wanna get a dog. What do you think? And I was like, dude, let's go get a dog. And we jumped in the car and he went and got a dog. And then our other friend who was like, always much more pragmatic was like, why did you ask Chet about the dog? You knew he was gonna stop poor getting the dog. And so in general, I'm just excited and I like encouraging and I'm like, I don't know what's the worst that's gonna happen? [00:25:18] Chet Kittleson: Like, you'll figure it out. And usually that's true. He loved his dog. [00:25:21] Chet Kittleson: he can go back, would he have not gotten him? I don't know if jury is still out. Yeah, I, in general, I would encourage people, I'd say, dude, you, you, you live one life. Like, find balance, figure out how to do both. and I'm still figuring that out, but like, I don't know, I just don't think you regret many things that, that are a little bit adventurous or outside the norm. [00:25:39] Adam Fishman: yeah. You know, your previous companies were all pure software companies and now you're building, you're actually building something like with your hands and now you're not building them anymore, but you were for a long, long time. So like, what's that been like going through this transition from like, you know, you can't vibe code a phone. so What's that been like for you? [00:25:58] Chet Kittleson: I mean, I think I, I said this a little bit earlier, but, but amazing. maybe it's novelty. Like I'm sure if I'd worked in hardware for the last 15 years and all of a sudden I was doing software, I'd be like, oh my gosh, it's so fast. The stakes are high in hardware. The decision, like, you know, you've gotta make decisions three months ahead of time. [00:26:16] Chet Kittleson: Oftentimes, once you make a decision, like once the steel is cut, the steel is cut, can't take it away. You have to rebuild a new tool that can cost you tens of thousands of dollars. and so, you know, I think software has done a really nice job making me pretty open to risk and pretty aggressive, which I think, I think honestly makes me a slightly better, hardware founder. [00:26:35] Chet Kittleson: because I just don't, take every decision quite as seriously, but I've made sure to put people around me that, you know, let me know when a decision needs to be a little bit more thought through. but yeah, I just love the tactile nature of it. I love that there's devices, there's like actually things that kids touch and feel and love, and I get to choose like what the texture is like, and the colors and how thick the buttons are, and what the resistance to those buttons is. [00:26:58] Chet Kittleson: It's like, my favorite movie, one of my favorite movie types is cooking movies. like a Hundred Foot Journey and, um, Chef. like, they're so beautiful because like they do such a good job. You, you like smell the food, [00:27:13] Chet Kittleson: you feel the passion of the cook. and this feels much closer to that, to me than software. [00:27:19] Chet Kittleson: You can't not feel the passion when you like, get your first prototype and you pull it out of the box and you feel it. And I don't know, it's, it'd be hard for me to go back. [00:27:29] Adam Fishman: That's very cool. Yeah, I can feel the enthusiasm. Okay, so minor aside, but you're into cooking movies. what's your take on the bear? Have you watched The [00:27:39] Chet Kittleson: I, I have not, I don't, I don't watch much to be told. I mean, I watch movies, but like, in terms of shows, is it amazing? Do I need to watch it? [00:27:46] Adam Fishman: you can skip season three. definitely watch one and two. And jury's still out on four. I'm, I'm only part of the way through, so, [00:27:53] Chet Kittleson: Okay. Is [00:27:54] Adam Fishman: one was great. [00:27:55] Adam Fishman: Okay. I wanted to ask you about, maybe how you've changed as a parent through having three kids. [00:28:02] Adam Fishman: I hear this a lot from folks that are like, well, I've learned a lot and now I have a third kid. And, so I'm just curious, what have you noticed about yourself that's changed in the last, like 10 years? and what would you attribute to like having kids? Like what have the kids kind of driven for you in that, in that change? [00:28:21] Chet Kittleson: really closely, mostly the slightly peppering, the [00:28:26] Chet Kittleson: slightly peppering [00:28:26] Adam Fishman: I know the [00:28:27] Chet Kittleson: Uh, there's a couple down here too. I mean from a business perspective, I think the most obvious thing would be a ruthless prioritizer. there's just this almost freedom that comes with being so busy because it's so much easier to know what to say no to. [00:28:44] Chet Kittleson: 'cause you just literally can't do it. as a very social person, I remember one of my anxieties, before we had kids when, when I was married to Lindsay and when I was single, was, the world is so large and there's so much to do. Uh, and every day for me was sort of this like, how do I choose? So he was a very real, almost an anxiety. [00:29:04] Chet Kittleson: and Lindsay actually helped with that too. 'cause she's sort of the opposite of that. She's like, the world's right in front of us. Like, let's do this thing, let's do this puzzle, or, you know, whatever. It's not that hard. and, uh, having kids, one of the freedoms that I found was the shackle of having a kid. [00:29:18] Chet Kittleson: It was like, well, I have to come home and feed the kid and then do their bedtime and it's already eight 30 and so like, maybe I'll watch a show, and then we'll go to bed. And that was like very freeing for me. and then as they've grown and as I've had more kids and now I've got a little farm running, you know, yeah, I have to be a ruthless, prioritize prioritizer that absolutely correlate, like correlates into my work when I think about how to make decisions and how to move quickly. [00:29:40] Chet Kittleson: And, uh, and then like the chaos, this could go either way. I could totally see the case where like, I have chaos at home, so I need stability at work, but I'm sort of like, I don't know, I'm already juggling six things. What's one more? and it, it feels like it's just a part of my ethos right now. [00:29:55] Chet Kittleson: so yeah, I think those are, those are both good examples of, you know, ways parenting has changed me. [00:30:01] Chet Kittleson: Uh, in terms of how. I guess the last thing I would add there, and this is just super relevant to TinCan, is recognizing that there's a finite amount of time and that if you're gonna work on something, it should be something that really matters to you. and so at home that is like, hey, if we're gonna like commit to a sport, it should be something that really matters to us. [00:30:21] Chet Kittleson: 'cause otherwise it takes a lot of time away from just like eating dinner together outside on the back deck or whatever and at work. and by the way, no shade on people working on stuff that just feels like a great commercial opportunity or whatever. but you know, this has been a uniquely cool experience to work on something that my friends understand that they like get, that they have in their house, that they feel like matters. [00:30:40] Chet Kittleson: and I don't think that that would've been a priority quite the same way. you don't need to have kids in order to care about things, but like, I think it really helped shape important that was for me. [00:30:49] Adam Fishman: [00:30:49] Adam Fishman: do you employ a lot of parents at, tin? Can, [00:30:51] Chet Kittleson: we have a seven person team. We're pretty small. I think we're pretty close to half and half. One of my co-founders has kids the same age as me. The other one has no kids. We've got a ops leader that has kids. We've got a customer support person that has no kids. We got an engineer that has kids. [00:31:05] Chet Kittleson: and I, I actually feel pretty, detached from whether or not they have kids. there are certainly benefits, of being like, oh, I have the product in my house and my kids can actually feel it. But you also become very subjective to like your experience and not having kids who can be much more objective and look at the data. [00:31:21] Chet Kittleson: It's very hard for me sometimes, like, well, I have three kids and all their friends always ask me for features. Like, we should do those things, that might be an edge case. and so I've actually had a, people we've interviewed say, Hey, I don't have kids. Like, how do you feel? And I'm like, great, you can be way more objective than I can. [00:31:35] Chet Kittleson: Like, look at the data, talk to kids, talk to parents, figure it out. and so I don't view that as like a, I. A requirement, at all. It's definitely fun though to have people in the office that also experience it at home. Like I think, I think having both is important. [00:31:46] Adam Fishman: yeah. Cool. [00:31:47] Adam Fishman: okay, so I wanted to go all the way back to something that you very lightly touched on, which was when you started TinCan. you went around probably with your founders, co-founders, and you installed all the earliest prototypes yourself in houses around Western Seattle, and you brought your kids with you. So tell me about that. Like, what was that like? [00:32:09] Chet Kittleson: Oh, man. I mean that, that is similar to how I feel about choosing the totally cord and the resistance and, you sort of like, you have these random moments in your life professionally and personally where you know you're doing something that someday a podcaster will ask you about. and that was one of those moments where I'm like, Adam Fishman someday is gonna be like, Hey, tell me about this time where you drove around West Seattle delivering Tin Cans. [00:32:32] Chet Kittleson: Um, and so you sort of knew if Tin Can is special, which I didn't know yet. this is gonna be a moment that I look back on as like, my battle scars and like this special time. and so yeah, it just felt special. and the, the response I got from parents, I remember one mom started crying when the phone rang. [00:32:49] Chet Kittleson: Like I would set them up and then I would whitelist my number so that I could call and then I would call their, their number. and I think there was something, you know, the, the trim line, like the old landline ringer, you know, I'm sure they spent a ton of time getting it right. And it's like warm and it's a reminder of simpler times. [00:33:07] Chet Kittleson: And, you know, we live in a world that sometimes feels anxiety inducing and chaotic. And I think there was just some visceral emotional reaction, like, oh my gosh, . I needed this. And so, yeah, I mean, I learned a ton about what parents wanted, what they didn't want, what they cared about. [00:33:23] Chet Kittleson: and then like, maybe the most insightful thing is I was pretty convinced this was for the parents and the kids would sort of be a beneficiary. [00:33:30] Chet Kittleson: Kids lost their minds. I have so many videos of their, of those first, I don't know, 50, a hundred houses. I always wanted the kids to be home. Sometimes they couldn't. but usually they were, I'd be like, Hey, I'd love to come when the kid's there and I can, you know, see their reaction. And, I would walk in and they'd be like, streaming and jumping up and down, and then they would hear the ring. [00:33:48] Chet Kittleson: And usually after the first three or five houses, it was always a friend. And so I would be able to be like, Hey, I just made it where you can call your friend Mara, or whoever they would call her, and they would just freeze up and be like, oh my gosh, it's a portal know, and they'd never experienced this technology before. [00:34:06] Chet Kittleson: Um, and so it was, it was. Special. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I feel like I should, I should just like once a month pick up family and be like, Hey, I'm gonna deliver yours in person and help you set it up. 'cause was such a cool experience. [00:34:19] Adam Fishman: pretty, pretty fun. That'd be like the, um, when I was at Lyft, John and Logan used to do [00:34:23] Adam Fishman: lift rides on New Year's Eve. They would [00:34:25] Adam Fishman: drive around and pick up people and most of the time people had no idea who they were, [00:34:29] Adam Fishman: which pretty [00:34:30] Chet Kittleson: yeah. [00:34:31] Adam Fishman: awesome. Okay, so you are. [00:34:35] Adam Fishman: Increasingly trying to foster you've mentioned an analog experience, in a world that really drags us into the digital space at a really young age, actually, you know, from like iPads at three or four or whatever. how do you talk to your kids, you and your wife, talk to your kids in your household about their relationship to technology? [00:34:59] Chet Kittleson: I mean, my response here would be, I mean, ultimately the word I was gonna say is, balanced. we're not Luddites. I'm not like, you can't ever watch a show. We don't have a tv. not that there's anything wrong with that, but we're, that is not us. We have a TV in the living room above the fireplace. [00:35:14] Chet Kittleson: We watch movies every Friday night. the kids can watch shows, you know, cartoons in the morning. And so they, they have a relationship with technology. I think, you know, my opinion is it's important for you to figure out how to have a relationship with technology. It is going to be a part of your life and probably your job at some point. [00:35:28] Chet Kittleson: but the important thing is, being aware. Of your relationship with that technology and having a balance and not being controlled by it. and so for us, that is like, I'd say we're like relatively rigid on the rules. Like they used to do this and we, we took it away 'cause it was, it was too far. [00:35:47] Chet Kittleson: but they don't watch shows on weekdays. [00:35:49] Chet Kittleson: so it's like a weekend morning thing. Part of it is great. My wife and I get to sleep in a little bit more and they get their breakfast and watch shows. That's great. Parents need that. [00:35:57] Chet Kittleson: and the kids, it's like special. And I'm like, awesome. I did cartoons as a kid. [00:36:00] Chet Kittleson: I'm, I'm here. but week weekdays we don't, and they'll still ask sometimes. And it's just like a firm No. You, like, we don't do shows on the weekdays. [00:36:06] Chet Kittleson: I don't even know why. It just feels like, it's like, that's a great example of, I want you to experience that. There are times where you need to figure out something to do without technology and there are times we can use it. [00:36:15] Chet Kittleson: We've been going back and forth lately on, like trips. Historically we were, that was like, we were like, rule rules aside, you get the, you get three movies on the way to Spokane to visit my wife's parents. and our last few trips, you've either done none or one movie. and I think, I think Tin Can is infusing more curiosity in me as to what it would be like if we were a little bit, you know, even more screen free. [00:36:37] Chet Kittleson: And those trips have gone great. Some of that might be our kids' age. They're a little bit older and a little easier for us to communicate with. but we're trying to tell 'em, like, it's important for you to understand that sometimes you're just gonna sit in a car seat and stare out the window you don't need to be entertained the whole freaking time. [00:36:51] Chet Kittleson: and you know, I think most parents would say that if you're firm and consistent, usually you'll be surprised by how okay they are. And by the way, there were like centuries of people that did this, that didn't have a, a screen to entertain them. They had to figure something out. They went and like threw a rock outside. [00:37:09] Chet Kittleson: Um. [00:37:11] Chet Kittleson: So we're, we're trying to bring some of that back. Uh, I think we've always been balanced. We've never been a, like they don't have, they don't own any devices. They don't own their own tablet. but I think we're, I'd say we probably peeled back another 25 or 30% ciar Tin Can. [00:37:24] Adam Fishman: Yeah. And I think, like, you know, kids maybe when something gets taken away from them, they typically protest, you know, early, and then they get over it really quickly and they figure out something else to do, you [00:37:35] Adam Fishman: know, because, you know, sometimes they have the attention span of a goldfish and they just move on, like the rest of us. [00:37:41] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. it is harder though. I always wanna acknowledge that for parents because screen helps. [00:37:49] Chet Kittleson: and so I feel, I always feel I wanna be careful about anyone feeling judged because I, I don't know anyone's situation. and it takes a lot of effort. Like my son Sam came with me to work one day 'cause my wife was doing her art camp and I was on Sam duty for the week while working. [00:38:03] Chet Kittleson: And so he came to the office. And I was committed to no screen. I like, I had to prepare and my wife helped me 'cause she's way more artistic. a ton of art projects and things for him to do. [00:38:12] Adam Fishman: is your five-year-old, right? [00:38:13] Chet Kittleson: five-year-old, he, he crushed it. I posted on LinkedIn, a while back, a video 'cause I was on a call and, he was like, you know, in my periphery and he was doing something, he had his lunch and I was like, there's like a plate on the ground. [00:38:25] Chet Kittleson: And I think I see like the top of his Tupperware thing on the ground. but I'm on this call, I can't remember what it was, but I think it was important enough to where I was like, I kind of can't be distracted. [00:38:33] Chet Kittleson: and I, finished the call and I look up and he is standing there and my kids really love baseball. [00:38:38] Chet Kittleson: Like that is their thing. he had built himself a baseball diamond, so he was like, he was like, boom, strike one, boom, strike two, boom, home run. And he like bat flips and runs and like the plate was first base and his lunchbox second base. And I mean, that's like a perfect example of I give him an iPad for the day. [00:38:54] Chet Kittleson: He would've not used his imagination. And, but, but again, it's a hard, it's, you know, it's a hard thing [00:39:00] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Well, one thing I, you know, I've done over a hundred episodes of this podcast and one thing that I hear is just huge diversity of what works for everybody. And soI don't take what you're saying as any sort of judgment on any parent that might do things differently, but it's interesting what you've observed there with [00:39:17] Adam Fishman: the creativity that it fosters. [00:39:18] Adam Fishman: Like boredom definitely fosters creativity [00:39:21] Adam Fishman: f [00:39:22] Adam Fishman: or okay, so There's this thing called ai. [00:39:25] Adam Fishman: You may have heard of it. [00:39:26] Adam Fishman: kind of a big deal [00:39:27] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. [00:39:28] Adam Fishman: what is the most creative and interesting use of AI that you've found as a parent? [00:39:36] Chet Kittleson: So this is one I have to share because I think it's hilarious. you, Adam gave me this question and said, Hey, I'm, I'm probably gonna ask you something like this. And I just plugged it into Chatt BT and said, Hey, how do I use you as a parent? and its response was dead on. because the only, I think the only ways I use it as a parent are, for storytelling. [00:39:54] Chet Kittleson: I actually even feel a little torn on this. 'cause like, I'm like, I should be like making up a story. But it's hard. usually it's when we're camping, we go camping. Typically we try to go four or five times a summer, or on a trip like we went to Hawaii or earlier this year I did it there too. But usually the prompt will be, Hey, we're on a trip in the Olympic Peninsula camping for three nights. [00:40:13] Chet Kittleson: Can you give me a three night story that has three unique parts? I want each of them to be like 10 minutes for me to read. And it needs to incorporate my kids and our dog, Zoe. And I'll, you know, I'll go back and forth with it for like 10 minutes, usually like premeditated before the trip. And then on the trip it'll be a story about my kids and their dog talks and they have to go on this big quest together. [00:40:33] Chet Kittleson: And [00:40:33] Chet Kittleson: usually I have it be like a team building where like they have to work together and they each have a special power. and so that's been probably the most, like, maybe the only, but like most compelling use case. and then I've tried to have it give me like illustrations of the story and that it's had a real, like, I, I haven't figured that out. [00:40:51] Chet Kittleson: I'm sure I'm using, I'm just using Chat two vt, I'm sure as a better tool for it. but yeah, beyond that I have not, I've not done much as a, as a parent with [00:40:58] Adam Fishman: I love that you asked chat, GPT and because it's got this memory, it's like, well, lemme just look back at all the things that you've ever asked me. Here we go. [00:41:06] Chet Kittleson: Yeah, totally. [00:41:08] Adam Fishman: so yeah, that's awesome. Uh, way to go chat, GPT. [00:41:11] Adam Fishman: okay. [00:41:13] Adam Fishman: So I wanted to end, the main part of our conversation on, a slightly optimistic note because I love to end this way. and I think it's really easy as a parent especially to have a kind of pessimistic view of our future. 'cause you books like Anxious Generation, you know, which I'm sure you've read, right? You're building a, you're building an analog phone for kids. Like I'm sure you're familiar with the works of Jonathan [00:41:36] Chet Kittleson: Yeah, meet him. I got to meet him a a month or two ago. He's been a good supporter so far [00:41:40] Adam Fishman: oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, if you see him again, tell him he needs to come on this show. I'm trying. [00:41:45] Chet Kittleson: Oh, there you go. I, yeah, I probably can't help [00:41:47] Adam Fishman: I doubt it. He's a little busy [00:41:49] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. [00:41:50] Adam Fishman: so, you know, if you read that stuff, and there's a good message there, but if you read it, it's, pretty easy to be like, Ooh, this is doom and gloom. [00:41:57] Adam Fishman: Like this is terrible. Our kids are struggling. and you, you're trying to change that. And so I'm curious where you find areas to be optimistic in your daily life, in work or in interactions with kids? [00:42:10] Chet Kittleson: I don't know if my response is directly a response to your question, but I think it is very important that we have people do a great job highlighting the problem, to create awareness for all of us, me included, of things that we might wanna optimize or improve. and it is very important to have another faction of people turning those problems into solutions. [00:42:33] Chet Kittleson: And I would say that our goal with TinCan is absolutely that. I read that book, it was a big part of the inspiration. I had the idea before, but it really helped solidify, like, I think this is a really special moment in time where Tin Can is like, it needs to exist in the world. and so I view, us, the problem, promoters and the, the solvers as a very important key partnership. [00:42:55] Chet Kittleson: and, yeah, ways be optimistic. I mean, man, starting this company, I've had the good fortune of connecting with so many people that are working on the same problem in such fun ways. I think retro is in the zeitgeist right now. [00:43:11] Chet Kittleson: And you've got, people like this woman named Emma Nachman that wrote a book, I can't remember. It's, I think it's called ABC's The Millennial Way. it's so fun. You should read it. I bought it and my kids loved it. I'll give you one spoiler. Page B is for Blockbuster, and the whole thing is like this story about like, we used to actually go to a store and a movie and fight over which one. [00:43:31] Chet Kittleson: there's, like a woman named Mary working on this thing called Tween Magazine. She's trying to bring the magazine back for, in her case specifically young, young women, you know, tweens, eight to 12 year olds, and giving them content that's all about empowerment. And so, you know, the cigarette was really cool at one point in time, and we didn't really know how bad it was for us. [00:43:50] Chet Kittleson: And then people talked how bad it was for us, and we, people stopped smoking cigarettes, like the percentage went down. Cell phones and social media, super important. It's, it's not a perfect, correlation 'cause they, they are very important. I will continue to use my cell phone. I have an iPhone, I'm proud of that, blah, blah, blah. [00:44:04] Chet Kittleson: but like, we didn't realize how addicting this stuff was and people let us know and now we're gonna work on solutions to make it better. And we now have a generation of parents that have been through it and they are actively trying to figure out solutions and, and I'm one of those parents that have built something. [00:44:19] Chet Kittleson: think that's like a great reason to be optimistic. [00:44:22] Adam Fishman: Well, I'm so appreciative that you're doing what you're doing. I think I, you've inspired me to go get myself a Tin Can. Now maybe [00:44:27] Adam Fishman: one neighbors too. We'll see. [00:44:29] Chet Kittleson: yeah. Bundle discount. Buy two, get $5 off each [00:44:33] Chet Kittleson: device [00:44:34] Adam Fishman: snap. [00:44:35] Chet Kittleson: Buy three or more or $10 off each [00:44:37] Adam Fishman: Wow. Okay. Well maybe we'll negotiate some bulk purchases Um, okay. Last question for you before our lightning round. [00:44:44] Adam Fishman: how can people, support you in building Tin Can and how can they help you along your journey? [00:44:52] Chet Kittleson: Great question. I would say two things. One, buy or promote. Tin Can share about us, um, whether you have kids or not. people need to hear about it. And then two, um, and this is a little bit different, and this actually wasn't premeditated, but I think about it all the time. If you get a Tin Can for your kid, you've gotta invest in changing the paradigm of the way your household operates so that Tin Can becomes a utility or whatever house phone you choose. [00:45:19] Chet Kittleson: it takes time. It's a novelty at first, and kids lose their mind. in general, our usage is very strong for, we have cohorts as old as 10 months now. and I want parents like that. We're so. ingrained in having this information asymmetry and like the parent has everything and the kid has nothing. [00:45:37] Chet Kittleson: And so like, we can text and organize a play date for you. We can check on this, we can check on that. And, the areas where TinCan has worked the best are where, parents have invested and said like, if you're bored, go pick up the tin. Can. They've worked hard to get their neighborhoods involved. [00:45:52] Chet Kittleson: They've worked hard to get their schools involved. We have a lot of schools we're working directly now. Um, and that's sort of early days there. but like, it's an investment. I'm trying to build a movement and we're trying to create a cultural shift back to a simple voice communication, at least for kids to start. [00:46:07] Chet Kittleson: and that takes a village. Like we're not gonna do that by our, by ourselves. [00:46:10] Adam Fishman: I love that. I love the angle of, I mean, as a growth. And product person. I love the angle of getting schools involved too. It's just such a communication vehicle out to the parents and they can definitely spread the word, especially when they're trying to get people, get kids to not bring cell phones to school, not bring watches and things like that. [00:46:27] Adam Fishman: Anything that helps parents delay, [00:46:29] Chet Kittleson: Yeah. Yeah. We had an email from a school, we, we've talked to this school a couple times, but uh, had an email this morning where they said, okay, we, like, we met as a group and we want to buy a Tin Can for all 200 students in the population and then do a bunch of cool integrations where we'll make it where like, hypothetically this is what they, they asked for. [00:46:46] Chet Kittleson: Like, can the entire third grade class be automatically connected to each other right now, can to, can connections are via a friend request system. [00:46:54] Chet Kittleson: and so, you know, we're gonna talk more to them, but I we're really excited to work with schools and we've had a lot of people, we haven't done anything with this, but we've had a lot of people ask us about doing like a Tin Can payphone. [00:47:05] Chet Kittleson: Not that you would actually insert a quarter, but imagine in schools or at like, you know, parks or libraries, you can actually walk in and there's like a Tin Can where you can dial some sort of code that matches your account and call your mom and say, Hey, I made pool, or I made it to the library, or whatever. [00:47:19] Chet Kittleson: so yeah, we're, we're excited about. So who knows if that's ever, or years from now, but fun, fun dreams. [00:47:24] Adam Fishman: very cool. Yeah, we used to have to, we'd show up at a friend's house and we'd ask them if they could call back to our parents or can I call to let them know where I am? So, [00:47:33] Chet Kittleson: Well, and yeah, and you, you talk about the watch of like, I wanna make sure that they got to school. And you're like, what if they could get to school and be like, all right, I made it, you know, I made it to school. Um, so anyway. We'll, we'll see. But lots of, lots of fun [00:47:42] Adam Fishman: Okay. Love that. [00:47:47] Adam Fishman: All right, let's go to lightning round. always a fan favorite. what is the most indispensable parenting product besides the Tin Can that you've ever purchased? [00:47:55] Chet Kittleson: Paper calendar. [00:47:56] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Okay. [00:47:58] Chet Kittleson: You could have guessed. You could have guessed that [00:47:59] Adam Fishman: Could have guessed it. You were [00:48:00] Chet Kittleson: Wife gets the credit. but it, yeah, that, that would be [00:48:03] Adam Fishman: Way to go, Lindsay. what is the most useless parenting product you've ever purchased? [00:48:07] Chet Kittleson: I mean, every toy that we've ever purchased maybe is the [00:48:11] Adam Fishman: That counts. That [00:48:12] Chet Kittleson: Um, the, the number of like remote controlled things that they use four times and the battery dies and then we lose the charger and then it goes to the goodwill. [00:48:19] Adam Fishman: Right. We have not standardized the battery chargers yet. We need to. Um, okay. What is the weirdest thing that you've ever found in your kids' pockets or in the washing machine? [00:48:29] Chet Kittleson: I mean, this one I sort of feel like the answer is the junk drawer. Um, like there are times where you open the washer and you're like, there's a battery. There's like an LED light, there's three coins, and there's like stuffed animal. [00:48:43] Chet Kittleson: and I will say, I think at this point we've evolved and we're pretty good at, emptying pockets. [00:48:50] Chet Kittleson: but like yeah, money, the, the, we, we've, we've found everything in the washer and dryer over the last 10 [00:48:56] Adam Fishman: Love that. Okay. True or false, there's only one correct way to load the dishwasher, [00:49:00] Chet Kittleson: Absolutely true. I, I am known by my friends and family as the dishwasher. I had a lot of jobs dish washing growing up. a I think there's also a right and wrong way to wash a dish. Some people like use gross rags to wash their dishes. there's a right way to wash a dish. but there's also, yeah, you need to put plates in a certain place and cups in a certain place, and everything needs to be facing down. [00:49:23] Chet Kittleson: And [00:49:23] Chet Kittleson: I've got a strong point of view on how to load the dishwasher. [00:49:26] Adam Fishman: So you, you are just, you've just, you do it in your household than I imagine It's [00:49:30] Chet Kittleson: Uh, I would say, and, and I mean, if I'm being totally honest, my wife carries a majority of the mental load by a wide order. I have to say that, dishes are probably the one thing that I can consistently lay claim to as like, Hey, I always contribute [00:49:45] Chet Kittleson: with dishes. I need to do better. But yes, dishes are like, that's, that's a massive contribution of [00:49:50] Adam Fishman: is a unique talent for sure. Now, are you a rinse before you load or are [00:49:54] Chet Kittleson: Uh, like clean. Basically. [00:49:56] Adam Fishman: So the, the dishwasher just is a sanitizing agent, [00:49:59] Chet Kittleson: view it as a sanitizing agent. I just cleaned the filter for my dishwasher two days ago. It was, it had been too long, but if you haven't cleaned your filter, do it. I don't know if you know you're supposed to, but like that thing can be, have like three inches of orange gunk on it. [00:50:14] Adam Fishman: Okay. Alright. What is your signature Dad's superpower. [00:50:17] Chet Kittleson: I think this one for me is my insatiable appetite for adventure. [00:50:22] Chet Kittleson: the flip side of this, by the way, is I'm not very good at staying still, which is very important for kids too. Like, sometimes they just want to sit on the couch with you and do like, imaginary play, which is not my specialty, but like bike rides, any sport, going and getting ice cream, going out to eat, walking along Alai Beach in West Seattle, which is a, which is a nice beach boardwalk. [00:50:43] Chet Kittleson: you know, I, I can exhaust my wife and my kids. I will always be willing to go. [00:50:47] Adam Fishman: Okay. What is the crazier block of time in your house? 6:00 AM to 8:00 AM or 6:00 PM To 8:00 PM [00:50:54] Chet Kittleson: Definitely. The evening we have a pretty chill morning house. Like the kids will make themselves breakfast. it's very relaxed. They feed the pets. That's one of their chores. evening, if there's one time of day where my kids decide to get along. It's right before bedtime, and it's both adorable and the worst because they'll go crazy like, well, it's bedtime. [00:51:14] Chet Kittleson: We're so glad you're getting along now. But like, come on, it's eight 30. Um, so yeah, I, I would say nighttime after dinner, they'll usually go nuts, [00:51:21] Adam Fishman: If your kid had to describe you in one word, what would it be? [00:51:24] Chet Kittleson: I think I would say goofy. [00:51:25] Adam Fishman: Alright. no further questions about that one. I [00:51:29] Adam Fishman: What is, um, the most frustrating thing that's ever happened to you as a dad? [00:51:33] Chet Kittleson: this one has to be the request for anything. The moment I'm walking out of a kid's room after the performance that is bedtime, [00:51:42] Adam Fishman: Yes. [00:51:43] Chet Kittleson: they're like literally three quarters of the way sleeping. And I like slowly sneak out. Dad, yeah, I have some water? I'm like, [00:51:54] Adam Fishman: Yes. Yes. I love [00:51:56] Chet Kittleson: or there's like a weird question where they're like, Hey, What what is the moon made of? [00:52:00] Chet Kittleson: And [00:52:00] Adam Fishman: happens when you die? Oh God, [00:52:02] Chet Kittleson: yeah, exactly. Usually it's way more obscure and dumb. That's actually a deep, it's like, what's the angle of a light switch? I'm like, what? I don't know if an of a light switch has an angle. [00:52:13] Adam Fishman: Okay. Uh, what is your go-to Dad wardrobe. [00:52:16] Chet Kittleson: I mean, what I'm wearing right now is pretty close, but it's jeans usually green or gray. a short sleeve button up, and Brooks running shoes and then oftentimes a hat. [00:52:26] Chet Kittleson: Um, I wear, like, I have two flannel long sleeves that I wear as [00:52:30] Adam Fishman: Okay. Uh, we got a long sleeve land. You dressed up for us today. [00:52:34] Chet Kittleson: I did. I didn't, but I didn't button it though. [00:52:37] Adam Fishman: Yeah. how many parenting books do you have in your house? [00:52:39] Chet Kittleson: I think we probably have three [00:52:42] Adam Fishman: Okay. How many of those have you read, cover to [00:52:45] Chet Kittleson: I don't even, I think cover to cover, I would say, how many of those of you opened one cover? And the answer might be zero. Um, but, but man, we're good at buying 'em. [00:52:54] Adam Fishman: Okay. How many dad jokes do you tell on average in a given day? [00:52:58] Chet Kittleson: would say, like my, my dad joke game is really bad. [00:53:02] Chet Kittleson: I'm like goofy. And I, my kids love that I make weird faces and noises, but, I cannot retain a good dad joke. like the one that I always remember is, What is the, I don't even remember it. Yeah. I'm bad at bad, I'm bad at dad jokes. [00:53:16] Adam Fishman: Okay. let me see if I've got one [00:53:18] Chet Kittleson: Oh, wait, how does the moon cut his hair? Is that it? [00:53:20] Adam Fishman: Uh, I dunno. [00:53:22] Chet Kittleson: Eclipsed it. [00:53:23] Adam Fishman: Oh my God. [00:53:24] Chet Kittleson: There you go. There you [00:53:26] Adam Fishman: Okay. Why did the quiz show give away $10,000 plus one banana? [00:53:32] Chet Kittleson: Why? [00:53:33] Adam Fishman: They wanted the prize to have appeal. [00:53:36] Adam Fishman: Okay. All right. Let's keep going before people delete this podcast. Um, what is the most absurd thing that one of your kids has ever asked you to buy for them? [00:53:45] Chet Kittleson: I have so many answers, but I have to go with my niece. my niece is older now. She's 16. Maybe she just turned 17. and every year she sends to the whole family, like a, a document and it's her Christmas wishlist and it's getting more, realistic, but I'm not kidding you. There would be like, a 32 inch tv, like no joke on it. [00:54:10] Chet Kittleson: There'd be a Jeep. she'd have like a bunch of jewelry that was like, like legit two, you know, like jewelry. And we were all like, did, did you want like a gift card that could contribute toward one of these gifts for $25? [00:54:22] Adam Fishman: um, [00:54:23] Adam Fishman: you should send her a 32 inch TV box and inside is a Tin Can phone when she opens it up. [00:54:28] Chet Kittleson: I love that idea. She's, she's gotten now it's like, you know, a pair of shoes or [00:54:33] Adam Fishman: brought it down to earth a little Okay. Love that. what is your favorite kid's movie? [00:54:37] Chet Kittleson: This one's really hard for me. I am a massive, like, well before kids, I've always been obsessed with animated movies. I love Pixar. I wanted to work there for like, I have no talent to give them, but like, I always love the idea of working at Pixar. so I probably have to go with Toy Story. I know that's so classic, but like, I, that like just changed my life. [00:54:56] Chet Kittleson: I kind of am annoyed they're making another one. I'm excited, but I'm also like, what? Why? so for animated, I go Toy Story for live action. I'd probably do Sand Lauter, Mighty Ducks. [00:55:06] Chet Kittleson: Um, I, I'm a sucker for a good sports [00:55:08] Adam Fishman: Okay. What, um, nostalgic movie can you not wait to force your kids to watch? Or [00:55:14] Adam Fishman: maybe [00:55:15] Chet Kittleson: Yeah, we, we have, and I would say, I mean, we've got a lot, but like, Honey, I Shrunk The kids, Freaky Friday, by the way. Freakier Friday. Freaking amazing. [00:55:26] Adam Fishman: who just invited me and my kids to go to [00:55:28] Chet Kittleson: go, I loved it. I'm so happy for Lindsay Lohan. I think being a kid actor is the worst. And I, like, anytime they go down a road, I just feel so sad. [00:55:37] Chet Kittleson: And making a comeback she's awesome. Like it's, she crushed it in that movie. I loved it. I thought they, it was such a good homage. The original, [00:55:43] Chet Kittleson: um, Parent Trap. like we've watched, we've watched all, all this horse movies, Little Big League, Rookie of the Year, uh, The Green Mile, or Not The Green Mile, um, no, The Green Mile. [00:55:52] Chet Kittleson: Yeah, I, yeah, the Green Mile. Yeah. All those [00:55:54] Adam Fishman: Okay, cool. you know, I don't know if you have a good answer to this 'cause you've we're literally soldering phone parts on your [00:56:00] Chet Kittleson: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I, my co-founder is the one that would [00:56:03] Adam Fishman: this [00:56:04] Chet Kittleson: would laugh if I said I, I am actually not, yeah. is not me. But, [00:56:08] Adam Fishman: What, what's the worst experience then that you've ever had? Assembling a kid's toy or a piece of furniture. [00:56:14] Chet Kittleson: So I do love building stuff, uh, not electronics. And so I think my answer for this, uh, assembling new stuff is like a hobby. It feels like Legos, like I love a good IKEA project or Target, you know, their stuff is very similar at this point. for me, my wife is very good at sourcing used furniture that looks, you know, it's like, like awesome stuff. [00:56:36] Chet Kittleson: fixing used furniture is super far frustrating. Um, my son's dresser right now, I don't know if it's a armoire or what you'd call it, but has two drawers at the bottom in the, in the top drawer. Always drops [00:56:49] Chet Kittleson: to the bottom drawer and there's like a, there's a wood plank that's supposed to go across and every time I try to fix it, I make it worse 'cause all the wood is so brittle. [00:56:58] Chet Kittleson: and so it's just we, I've just accepted that this is the way life is now and he has a drawer that sinks into the other drawer. [00:57:03] Adam Fishman: It's all right. Just put some more stuff in that bottom drawer. It'll prop it up. [00:57:06] Adam Fishman: how often do you tell your kids back in my day stories. [00:57:10] Chet Kittleson: I think the answer to this before TinCan was not very much, and post TinCan is all the time. Um, and I get emails and Instagram messages for, I don't have Instagram personally, but for TinCan, from other companies working on really cool, like, the Emma Knuffman book I talked about. and so like now I'm constantly being reminded of the old Game Boy, you know, all that stuff. [00:57:29] Chet Kittleson: Um, so pretty, pretty [00:57:31] Adam Fishman: Okay. Well, we're in the home stretch here on lightning round. two questions left for you. One, what is your favorite dad hack for road trips or flights? [00:57:41] Chet Kittleson: it just has to be snacks, like have snacks, give 'em all the snacks, make it sugary. there's a balance there for sure. But like, you know. We're, we're trying to be like less and less screen. I think if you have snacks for like every 30 minute increment, you're gonna be okay. [00:57:57] Adam Fishman: Yeah. Okay. And last question, what's your take on minivans? [00:58:01] Chet Kittleson: We have one, I think it's a Chrysler Pacifica plugin hybrid. it's not our dream car. We were pretty resistant, but with three kids, it does feel like it's the only choice. We really wanted a plugin hybrid or an electric car. and like, once you have one, I mean, come on. Like, they're so absurdly functional, they're really comfortable. [00:58:23] Chet Kittleson: and so I think the moment that it, it didn't make so much sense, we will get rid of it for like a standard truck. Like I would probably get a pickup truck and maybe an SUV. but for now the minivan all the way. [00:58:33] Adam Fishman: Okay. Alright, team minivan. Chet, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. This was really fun. I'm amazed at the product and company you're building and I hope everyone runs out and buys one after this. And thanks for talking about your family too and, and some of the things you've learned. [00:58:49] Adam Fishman: Best of luck to you, the fam and the company. [00:58:52] Chet Kittleson: Thank you, Adam. I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me. [00:58:54] Adam Fishman: Thank you for listening to today's episode with Chet Kittleson. You can subscribe and watch the show on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Visit www.startupdadpod.com to learn more and browse past episodes. [00:59:10] Adam Fishman: Thanks for listening, and see you next week.