Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Is BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF Suppressing the Price? | EP 981

Transcript

Is BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF Suppressing the Price? | EP 981 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:03
  It's. Always zero against.
• 0:06
  It's going up, everyone. You're.
• 0:15
  Against Bitcoin you're against freedom.
• 0:22
  Yeah, welcome to some Bitcoin Live.
• 0:24
  We're no more resource for the peaceful Bitcoin revolution.
• 0:26
  Cover breaking news. Culture.
• 0:27
  Matic Warfare. We will be your guide through
• 0:29
  the separation of money and state.
• 0:31
  Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Simply Bitcoin.
• 0:32
  The most watched daily Bitcoin live show on YouTube.
• 0:36
  Rumble, Annex. Sit back.
• 0:37
  Relax, Enjoy the ride. We have lots of content to cover
• 0:40
  today. Lots of breaking news it seems
• 0:43
  like. Look, everyone was so hyped I I
• 0:45
  saw the tweets on Bitcoin Twitter.
• 0:48
  Everyone was so pumped about the Hong Kong Bitcoin ETF launched.
• 0:53
  What happened to the price it dumped?
• 0:55
  We made an argument yesterday that potentially the Hong Kong
• 0:58
  ETF could be potentially being used by the Chinese government
• 1:02
  to cause downward cell pressure on Bitcoin.
• 1:04
  I think it's more macro than that to be honest.
• 1:07
  We have a guest today, we were talking before we went live.
• 1:11
  He has a take on that and it's very similar.
• 1:13
  Take that my dad told me early on this morning in regards to
• 1:17
  the Fed meeting that's coming up.
• 1:19
  I think a lot of people are watching on the sidelines and
• 1:22
  seeing what this guy in a suit on TV is going to tell the world
• 1:27
  what the price of money should be and how things like, holy
• 1:31
  cow, I can't believe we live in this archaic system.
• 1:34
  It reminds me of this scene from The Simpsons.
• 1:36
  I'm sure you guys have seen it where like they're trying to
• 1:39
  make a decision on like, oh should we bail out?
• 1:42
  Like what should we do? And then like, they literally,
• 1:44
  this is a cartoon YouTube. OK, this isn't our contact
• 1:47
  content, but they literally cut the head of a chicken off and
• 1:50
  they just put it on a flywheel. And then like, wherever the
• 1:52
  chicken stops is like the decision that they made.
• 1:55
  But I think it's like a great metaphoric, like type of
• 1:59
  representation, basically saying that if you pull away the
• 2:02
  curtain, like they don't really know what they're doing.
• 2:06
  Like, their options are just to print more money.
• 2:08
  You know, that obviously disproportionately hurts lower
• 2:11
  middle classes the most. You know, their their, their
• 2:14
  tool to slow down inflation is to basically hurt the economy
• 2:19
  and stop consumer spending. Like it is.
• 2:22
  It is, it is archaic. You could have made an argument
• 2:25
  that before Bitcoin, that was the best method, but obviously
• 2:29
  from a Bitcoiner's perspective, you're looking at that.
• 2:31
  You're like, dude, that's absolutely crazy.
• 2:34
  So yes, we're gonna cover the BlackRock ETFs today.
• 2:38
  The, the ETFs, not only from BlackRock, but Fidelity and Ark,
• 2:41
  they're all going sideways. So the inflows actually for
• 2:44
  BlackRock specifically have been frozen for four days.
• 2:48
  So those inflows that we saw in the early part of the year, they
• 2:52
  seem to be slowing down. Now to be fair from a historic
• 2:58
  Bitcoin price perspective and again we we're not really
• 3:01
  Chartist here. We don't like to speculate on
• 3:02
  the price. Something very similar happened
• 3:05
  last cycle, right. We had that you know the the
• 3:08
  bull market went to 20 K went down to 3500 then it pumped to
• 3:12
  1600 then it landed at 10K and it kind of you know it had that
• 3:16
  initial pump from 3500 to I think it was like 1600 or sorry
• 3:22
  14,000 or 16,000 and then it kind of level off at 10,000 and
• 3:26
  the parabolic move happened about nine months after the
• 3:29
  halving. So if you look at it from that
• 3:32
  perspective, it seems like Bitcoin is right on track to be
• 3:35
  honest. And I was getting a little bit
• 3:37
  like concerned the fact that we were just going on a straight
• 3:40
  line up because use that that would have just ended the cycle
• 3:44
  short, right. So I think a, a consolidation
• 3:47
  period is healthy and I think it just sets a platform for this
• 3:52
  lift off that if it happens like it's happened historically tends
• 3:57
  to happen about like I said 10 to 12 months after the halving.
• 4:01
  So if it follows his story, the historical pattern midpoint
• 4:05
  2025, this thing goes parabolic. Of course you know past results
• 4:10
  are not indicative of the future, but you know it is
• 4:14
  Bitcoin, right? It is, it's, it's, it's it's
• 4:17
  it's very special. And so far that pattern has it
• 4:19
  broken. In other news, I also want to
• 4:21
  cover the relentless attack by the administrative state DOJ
• 4:26
  against privacy, and I think it's going to lead into an
• 4:31
  attack on self custody that own. That isn't just me saying that
• 4:36
  we had the Bitcoin senator, Senator Cynthia Lummis.
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  She came out with a tweet this morning addressing it as well
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  that the DOJ is going after, quote, Bitcoin non custodial
• 4:49
  software. She's she's getting ahead of the
• 4:51
  curve. Like she's seeing what we're
• 4:52
  seeing, which is the idea, which is basically they're trying to
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  set a precedent and say listen guys, if it's not in, you know,
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  in custody, if it's not a hosted wallet, somehow we can't enforce
• 5:06
  AML and KYC laws. And if you boil it down
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  fundamentally to the basics, like they're trying to scare the
• 5:14
  public into the idea that somehow writing down 12 to 24
• 5:17
  words and taking custody of that is somehow a danger to society.
• 5:21
  And make no mistake there's a full on full court press on this
• 5:26
  CZ the richest man in history to be put in prison.
• 5:30
  He he was just he was they they they gave him his sentence
• 5:33
  yesterday. Rodger ver one of the Bitcoin O
• 5:36
  GS. You know, the whole Bitcoin cash
• 5:38
  thing happened as well. He's very unpopular with the
• 5:40
  community. He got arrested in in Spain for
• 5:45
  tax evasion and mind you, he he gave up his citizenship.
• 5:49
  It appears that he failed to pay his exit exit tax.
• 5:51
  But think about, like what I'm saying, which is like pretty
• 5:54
  crazy. And I don't want to get into the
• 5:56
  like the conversation of taxes and all that 'cause there's like
• 5:59
  legality of it. But if you like really boil down
• 6:03
  to it, it's it's almost as if like the US, like these
• 6:06
  governments are like holding you hostage in a way, right?
• 6:09
  Like it it it's, you know, it's interesting.
• 6:12
  It's interesting. All this was predicted, of
• 6:13
  course, in the book The Sovereign Individual, which you
• 6:15
  guys know I'm going to read from today.
• 6:18
  But it's going to be a hell of a show and I'm really excited for
• 6:21
  it. So anyway, I do want to bring up
• 6:22
  my very special Co host, always optimistic he's wearing the
• 6:27
  simply Bitcoin hat right now, which by the way, you can get on
• 6:30
  our merch store. All you got to do is scan the QR
• 6:33
  code or check the link in the video description and you guys
• 6:37
  can get yourself a simply Bitcoin gold Bitcoin that.
• 6:40
  That's the dad hat, right? That's the dad hat.
• 6:42
  Yes Sir. I don't know why they call it
• 6:43
  the dad hat. It's.
• 6:44
  Because dads wear them. But I'm not a dad, so Opti.
• 6:49
  Is a dad breaking news, Christine Lagarde?
• 6:52
  Not that I'm aware of. We still have Mauricio from Lend
• 6:56
  Man. How you doing, bro?
• 6:58
  Wait. Wait, wait, Nico, before we get
• 6:59
  to Mauricio, I'm gonna let you finish.
• 7:01
  And I know you you're talking all macro and FOMC meeting and
• 7:05
  you know the the global economy is going to hell and there's
• 7:08
  wars and all this stuff. But what's really happening is
• 7:12
  58 K gang made made a return and they absolutely naked us.
• 7:16
  So if you want to blame anyone, blame 58K gang.
• 7:19
  Anyway, it's Mary. So what's up, bro?
• 7:22
  Well, I'll be fine. Good to be here.
• 7:24
  Great to see you guys, dude. I'm so happy that you're on the
• 7:27
  show. There's not that many
• 7:29
  Venezuelans. I think there's a handful of us.
• 7:32
  Just a little bit, right. Just a tight, tight, Just a few
• 7:35
  of us. Hey man, thanks cyberinflation
• 7:39
  for showing us the way to Bitcoin faster.
• 7:42
  Accelerating the path to Bitcoin for us.
• 7:45
  Man, well, we're really excited to have Manisha on the show
• 7:47
  today. During the culture segment,
• 7:49
  we're gonna talk about Len. So Manisha, could you give a
• 7:51
  quick elevator pitch one to two minutes.
• 7:54
  What lend is to our audience? Yeah, I'll keep it very brief.
• 7:58
  Leaden was started by Adam and I in 2018 because we were tired of
• 8:02
  selling our Bitcoin. So we were looking for somebody
• 8:04
  to take our Bitcoin as collateral and then the some
• 8:06
  dollars so that we wouldn't have to sell it and we wouldn't
• 8:08
  create a taxable event for ourselves and we nobody would
• 8:11
  give us one. And the ones that did require
• 8:13
  tokens and then had done Icos and things and we just didn't
• 8:17
  think that that was a a valid long term approach.
• 8:19
  So we decided to build the most transparent and honest to come
• 8:22
  back lending service we could that is let in today.
• 8:25
  And yeah we have we we've helped a lot of people already not sell
• 8:29
  their Bitcoin. I think some some will be
• 8:30
  listening might have used this before and yeah we we just
• 8:33
  expect to keep doing that. It's been a great year so far.
• 8:36
  And yeah, we just want to keep doing what we're.
• 8:38
  Doing absolutely and and and mind you I've I've definitely
• 8:41
  used these products before where you know there is an element of
• 8:46
  risk in the sense that you have to be very responsible.
• 8:49
  So you don't get margin called because Bitcoin does have
• 8:51
  volatility. But it's like you said, right,
• 8:54
  You let's say you don't want to sell your stack, right.
• 8:57
  You put up your Bitcoin, some of your Bitcoin as collateral, you
• 9:01
  can borrow it against you. You get a cash loan, right?
• 9:04
  And then as the price goes up, you know, you could obviously
• 9:07
  pay some of that back. You don't have to sell your
• 9:09
  Bitcoin, right? It stays there as collateral and
• 9:12
  then you get it back when you pay back that loan, right.
• 9:14
  Of course, like the danger is there that, you know, some
• 9:18
  people use that as leverage and you know they go full degen.
• 9:22
  But if you use it responsibly, it could be a great tool for you
• 9:27
  not to have to sell your Bitcoin and that cash that you're
• 9:30
  getting because it's a loan, it's not a taxable event either,
• 9:33
  right. So it's a great tool and we like
• 9:37
  to present you guys with multiple tools that you can use
• 9:40
  on your Bitcoin journey. Anyways guys, it's going to be a
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  website at the time of recording.
• 12:37
  The Bitcoin price is 57,110. Stop the show.
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  Stack some Sats 20% discount. Probably a good idea.
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  Block height 841,661 Sats per dollar 1751 Market cap 1.12
• 12:52
  trillion Bitcoin Price in gold 24.8 oz Bitcoin versus gold
• 12:57
  market cap 7.11% Percentage issued 93.77% declined from all
• 13:05
  time high negative -22.6% So we're 22% down, That's a 22%
• 13:12
  discount. Take this opportunity Anyways.
• 13:15
  We've been covering this topic for the last couple of days and
• 13:18
  it is an incredibly important topic here in the United States
• 13:22
  because we are right now in the middle of the fight for self
• 13:27
  custody. Fundamentally, it's a big threat
• 13:30
  for governments for individuals to be holding unconfiscatable,
• 13:35
  undebaseable money, especially if it starts becoming very
• 13:39
  popular on a mass scale, becomes very difficult to control your
• 13:43
  populace if you don't have the ability to do just that.
• 13:47
  Again, this isn't just me saying that and just, you know, some
• 13:51
  crazy bitcoiners on YouTube, but we've been making the case for
• 13:55
  you guys after the last couple of days with the samurai news,
• 14:00
  with the tornado cash stuff, We've been making the case that
• 14:03
  holy cow, they're trying to set a precedent and they're marching
• 14:06
  towards making self custody illegal in the United States.
• 14:10
  I remember it became very obvious to me when the when you
• 14:17
  started hearing words like hosted wallet, unhosted wallet,
• 14:21
  it started becoming very obvious that they don't like this thing.
• 14:25
  They don't want you to hold something that they can't just
• 14:28
  freeze at the flick of a switch. And they specially don't want
• 14:31
  you to hold something that allows you to transact with
• 14:34
  everyone anywhere freely across the world.
• 14:37
  I mean, there's that famous Barack Obama video where he's,
• 14:40
  like, talking about it's like, could you imagine a world where
• 14:44
  everyone just had a Swiss bank account in their pocket?
• 14:47
  Like, that would never work. It's like, yeah, for you
• 14:50
  politicians, maybe, but for individuals, it absolutely is a
• 14:54
  good thing. Anyways, so here's the Bitcoin
• 14:57
  Senator and she's been saying what we've been saying for the
• 15:01
  last couple days, Right, Which is this is her quote.
• 15:03
  I'm deeply troubled by the DOJ's hyper aggressive argument that
• 15:07
  non custodial software can constitute a money transmission
• 15:12
  service. Very smart because she's getting
• 15:15
  ahead of the curve, right? They haven't gotten to the point
• 15:19
  where they're saying Sparrow and Electrum is a money transmission
• 15:23
  service. They can't do that.
• 15:24
  But what they're trying to do is that they're setting precedents
• 15:27
  in order to get to that point. So she's getting out of the
• 15:29
  curve. Very smart political maneuver.
• 15:32
  This stance contradicts existing Treasury guidance, common sense,
• 15:37
  and violates the rule of law. Arguments against self custody
• 15:40
  software threaten the fundamental property rights that
• 15:42
  are core to being an American. I will do everything I can to
• 15:46
  fight for your rights to hold your own keys and run your own
• 15:49
  note. Now the last part is crazy to
• 15:53
  me, right? Like where a politician is
• 15:56
  saying I will do everything I can to fight for your right to
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  write down 12 to 24 words and fight for your right to run a
• 16:05
  computer. Like what type of dystopian
• 16:08
  world do we live in where this is even a conversation right?
• 16:12
  Like these are things that are specifically protected.
• 16:16
  First Amendment, 4th amendment right.
• 16:19
  Right to freedom of speech. Like Bitcoin, money is a form of
• 16:21
  speech. 4th amendment. No unreasonable searches and
• 16:24
  seizures, but we've got into the late stage of Fiat.
• 16:27
  That that that that like it's. Getting to this point right,
• 16:30
  where where governments are all so powerful that they get to
• 16:34
  decide what computers you can run and what computers you can't
• 16:38
  run, what type of software you can run, what type of software
• 16:41
  you can't run, like, that's a pretty crazy world, man.
• 16:44
  So I'm going to pass it on to Mauricio, man, this is pretty
• 16:47
  crazy. You, you know, you have
• 16:49
  something at stake just as much as as we do.
• 16:52
  You know, you, you run a, a, a, a, a, a business that's in this
• 16:56
  industry. So, like, what's your take on
• 16:59
  all this, man? Like this is a pretty aggressive
• 17:02
  stance from the IT it, you know, they're getting to the point
• 17:05
  where they're not explicitly saying the quiet part out loud.
• 17:09
  But, you know, you could put pieces together and you could
• 17:12
  say, wait a second, what's going on here?
• 17:14
  What's your take? I mean, it's a great preamble,
• 17:19
  Nicole. I think what you're what you're
• 17:22
  seeing from the government is, is, is a couple of things.
• 17:25
  So for one I'll say Latin is a is a fully regulated business so
• 17:28
  we have to abide by compliance requirements FINTRAC, Fints and
• 17:31
  and and all of the fun stuff that that you just quoted.
• 17:35
  And I think where that stems from is the government.
• 17:37
  Obviously the, the initial requirement comes from this
• 17:40
  desire to want to track any bad activity, any bad actors kind of
• 17:43
  going through the system and making sure that your system
• 17:46
  that you've, you know, worked very hard to build and protect
• 17:48
  is not enabling bad actors to, you know, move money around
• 17:52
  around the world. And to do so they want to track,
• 17:54
  you know, who's interacting with what platforms.
• 17:57
  So they've used a lot of the exchanges as the sort of hubs
• 18:00
  and they want to make sure that we are doing everything we can
• 18:02
  to track everyone's information and make sure that no bad
• 18:05
  activity is coming through. And from that you see you saw
• 18:08
  actually some some glimpses of where they're going through the
• 18:10
  fat fattest guidance where they want exchanges to in the future
• 18:14
  start tracking people's custodial wallets in addition to
• 18:18
  the the wallets within the platforms.
• 18:20
  And I think as as governments are starting to crank the dial
• 18:25
  on some of the the taxation rules and laws that they're that
• 18:29
  they're putting out, they want to make sure that they can track
• 18:33
  who has what in order for them to be able to tax efficiently.
• 18:37
  And in order to do this, they wanna have full oversight or
• 18:40
  full view on where everything sits.
• 18:42
  And I think this is not too dissimilar to them asking you to
• 18:45
  report foreign assets. You could think of this as an
• 18:49
  asset that is sitting outside of their jurisdiction that they
• 18:51
  wanna have visibility on and wanna know what you have to
• 18:54
  potentially come after you. Now where that lines, where they
• 18:57
  draw that line as to what's fair and where you know where where
• 19:01
  should their oversight end and your privacy begin.
• 19:04
  That is a very heated debate and it's it's you know, I don't have
• 19:08
  the perfect solution for it because again not a lot of
• 19:12
  people do this. But if you put your, if you put
• 19:14
  yourself in the shoes of the regulator for a second how you
• 19:18
  know what are the tools that you want to have in place to ensure
• 19:20
  you're stopping bad actors or or bad things from happening within
• 19:23
  your system. So it's it's not really an easy
• 19:26
  question to answer and and it's something that we do, we need,
• 19:29
  we do need more open debate about.
• 19:31
  I think what what Senator Loomis is doing is great.
• 19:33
  She's calling this out and trying to get ahead of the
• 19:35
  debate before it gets going. Because you've seen some, some
• 19:40
  attempts I think to kind of like sneak regulation that could be
• 19:44
  very hurtful to Bitcoin, but it's been caught and it's been
• 19:46
  paused. And I think what she's trying to
• 19:48
  do is just make everyone aware that this is happening so that
• 19:50
  we can have an open discussion about where that line needs to
• 19:54
  be drawn. So I don't, I don't necessarily
• 19:56
  have a perfect answer for it, but I'm just trying to give you
• 19:59
  the vantage points from both the, the regulators as far as
• 20:02
  the conversations we've had. And what they tell us is they're
• 20:04
  sort of guiding and light as to why they do these things and
• 20:07
  obviously balance that with the desires of our clients because
• 20:09
  all of our clients value privacy, they're all bitcoiners.
• 20:11
  So we have to sort of you know, meet somewhere in the middle.
• 20:14
  And again, you know, I think this is this is a.
• 20:17
  A conference isn't going to go on for a while until this this
• 20:20
  gets sorted out a. 100% and and I I want to like add a little
• 20:24
  bit of context to that because that was a great response.
• 20:26
  Manicio. So context #1, because I've seen
• 20:28
  this happen a lot on a lot on social media, right.
• 20:32
  There's this idea where a lot of the platforms get a tremendous
• 20:38
  amount of the blame for, like if you don't follow the
• 20:42
  regulations, they will put you out of business, right?
• 20:45
  So this is the type of thing where you have to fight it.
• 20:48
  Not fight it in the in the kinetic sense, but you have to
• 20:51
  speak up and make your voice heard before it goes into law.
• 20:55
  Now what concerns me a little bit, Mauricio, and I think this
• 20:58
  is where Cynthia Lamas did a great move tweeting that out, is
• 21:03
  that a lot of the, you know, the recent regulation hasn't been
• 21:07
  regulation via legislation, right, which is the correct
• 21:10
  process of it. It's really been regulation by
• 21:13
  enforcement, right. And and This is why, you know, I
• 21:17
  agree the open dialogue is necessary, the discussion is
• 21:21
  necessary. But and of course this isn't,
• 21:24
  this isn't a black and white statement but it seems like
• 21:27
  there is, there has been some elements where they're they're
• 21:33
  not really even discussing this. Like it's more so like we have
• 21:36
  an agenda, we want to create a CBDC monopoly from my, from my
• 21:42
  perspective, right. And it's like we're potentially
• 21:46
  going to go after the CBDC competitor and you know if if it
• 21:52
  if the democratic process and the regulatory process works how
• 21:56
  it's supposed to work which I agree with you on where it is a
• 22:01
  legislative discussion, right. It is voted on than 100%.
• 22:06
  But it it it's, we haven't been really seeing that.
• 22:08
  It's it's been by enforcement and I think that is a very
• 22:11
  slippery slope because it become, it could become
• 22:15
  tyrannical very fast, right? Yes.
• 22:18
  And and I mean, again, I'm, I'm not a lawyer, but I'll speak to,
• 22:21
  you know, I've spoken to many legislators and regulators and
• 22:24
  and obviously legal experts. And I think one of the points
• 22:26
  that is often made is that regulation by legislation takes
• 22:30
  a long time. These debates can go on for a
• 22:33
  very, very long time. And you know, there's going to
• 22:35
  be points of view and there's going to be drafts and
• 22:37
  iterations. And it's a messy, messy process,
• 22:39
  whereas regulating by enforcement can be quicker and
• 22:43
  faster. And you can do it and you know
• 22:46
  you'll have an Overton window of public opinion to go after these
• 22:49
  firms. So for example, when the Overton
• 22:51
  window was open earlier in 2022 to go after some Bitcoin or
• 22:55
  crypto firms, you saw that some regulators move to, you know,
• 22:58
  put on lawsuits against Coinbase, lawsuits against
• 23:00
  finance. And then once that Overton
• 23:02
  window closed halfway through last year, everything reversed
• 23:06
  back and you got all the ETFs approved and such.
• 23:08
  And so it's I guess the the where the point I'm trying to
• 23:10
  make is at times given circumstances it can be easier
• 23:14
  to regulate through enforcement than it is to regulate through
• 23:17
  legislation. And so it's like a shortcut they
• 23:19
  take the easy way out. And you know unfortunately this
• 23:23
  makes this makes this creates an unfair world because if you're a
• 23:26
  firm that has the means to defend yourself like Allah
• 23:28
  Coimbus or Allah Binance, it's going to be a big legal debate
• 23:31
  and you're going to land somewhere in the middle.
• 23:32
  And you might even defeat the regulator in some instances as
• 23:35
  as you know Coinbase, Ripple and others, some defeat of the SEC
• 23:39
  in certain in certain court districts.
• 23:41
  But when this comes against people that don't have the means
• 23:44
  to defend themselves, they just become complete victims.
• 23:46
  And not all of the cases that has have been brought up
• 23:51
  recently are I believe are necessarily a really black or
• 23:54
  white. I I think Sam Callahan from Swan
• 23:56
  had a really good piece on some of the things that that led to
• 23:59
  the Tornado cash indictment or the decision that they made
• 24:03
  against Tornado cash which is that they knew, these guys knew
• 24:06
  according to the docs that there were terrorists going through
• 24:11
  tornado cash and they just allowed it to happen.
• 24:13
  And so again, I'm not, I don't have a perfect answer for this
• 24:16
  because it's obviously a very, very sensitive topic.
• 24:20
  But I think it's not all black and white and and politicians,
• 24:23
  when they can, they will take the shortcut.
• 24:25
  So we have to force them back into this messy process of
• 24:28
  legislation by, you know, by by by discussion rather than by
• 24:32
  enforcement. 100% I I agree with you and also like it.
• 24:36
  It's you can't blame them right? Like you know, you can't blame
• 24:39
  them for not using the those tools like for example like in
• 24:45
  the Tornado cash case it was incredibly clear that they were
• 24:49
  laundering money for the Lazarus Group which is a which is
• 24:52
  associated with North Korea which the US government
• 24:55
  specifically has sanctions against.
• 24:57
  Right. So like they needed that straw
• 25:00
  man. Like they needed that like
• 25:01
  argument. And in the case of Samurai,
• 25:04
  right, you know, if you were taking a look at some of the
• 25:07
  docs, right, it looks like it looks like there was some
• 25:11
  examples and I don't know if they were set up or whatever
• 25:14
  you're you're obviously, you're taking the government's word for
• 25:16
  it where you know they they explicitly didn't, they
• 25:22
  explicitly didn't follow certain types of rules.
• 25:25
  And and again I'm not justifying the government's action but what
• 25:30
  I'm saying is that it's like you're giving them you're giving
• 25:33
  them ammunition to go after you in the first place.
• 25:38
  And I think that we're getting to the point where we're
• 25:41
  definitely entering the then they fight you stage and I think
• 25:46
  that you know the the the more ammunition you give them like
• 25:50
  they they like they tried to convince the public that Bitcoin
• 25:52
  was being used by Hamas to launder money and then that
• 25:56
  turned out to be total bullshit. Right.
• 25:58
  So like they're going to use I think it was the Winston
• 26:00
  Churchill quote, right. Never let a good crisis go to
• 26:03
  waste. And they're going to use
• 26:05
  everything in their power in order to achieve a certain goal
• 26:08
  for sure, right? But that open discussion is
• 26:11
  incredibly important, and it has to happen, because in an open
• 26:15
  discussion, they can't get away with a lot of the things that
• 26:18
  they want to get away with. They would rather just regulate
• 26:21
  by enforcement anyways. Opti, we're going to throw it on
• 26:24
  to you. What's the Bitcoin Maxi take on
• 26:27
  this, brother? Yeah, what's the what's the
• 26:30
  contrarian psychopath take here? Well, first of all, love the
• 26:33
  discussion. I I think you guys covered all
• 26:36
  that stuff. Great.
• 26:37
  So I will, you know, add the Opti flavor on this.
• 26:40
  First and foremost. Of course hearing Cynthia Lemmas
• 26:42
  say all this stuff gives me the butterflies inside and it makes
• 26:45
  me feel good and and I love hearing her say what we've been
• 26:48
  saying on the show show for a while.
• 26:50
  Though I will have to caveat that with she's still a
• 26:53
  politician and even though she's a good politician you guys know
• 26:57
  I've been very black pilled in regards to politicians and and
• 27:00
  even trying to garner their favor.
• 27:01
  But she is. I I forget who.
• 27:05
  I think it's Phil. Right.
• 27:06
  Isn't she his like mother-in-law so like she's a bitcoiner.
• 27:10
  So you love to see that she's saying what we saying and and
• 27:12
  like Nika saying getting out in front of all this.
• 27:14
  But I really love that last two sentences about protecting
• 27:19
  property rights because the chat's been going really hard on
• 27:22
  this the last couple of days that you know and and she even
• 27:25
  kind of said it like property rights is an American thing and
• 27:28
  if they come after your property they come after your money.
• 27:31
  Like more people should be angry about this and and on that, I
• 27:35
  know more politicians should be fighting back against this,
• 27:37
  which we're seeing very few politicians even care about
• 27:41
  anything in regards to the Constitution or what American
• 27:43
  values are. But hey, this is where we are
• 27:45
  right now in the story. But I do want to mention, did
• 27:51
  you guys see? And I I put it in our show notes
• 27:53
  and you go, but did you guys see Marty Bent did a couple
• 27:57
  screenshots from a Wired article about the cypherpunks?
• 28:02
  It's like 20 years old or whatever.
• 28:04
  But the parallels between what we're seeing right now with you
• 28:08
  taking custody of your Bitcoin and what we saw with PGP and
• 28:11
  even someone in the chat said what they try to do with DVDs,
• 28:15
  it's it's all playing out exactly as it had in the past.
• 28:18
  Again, you know the what's it? The president doesn't or the the
• 28:22
  past doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
• 28:24
  And this is what we're this is where we are right now.
• 28:26
  We're seeing that they're literally using the same low
• 28:29
  hanging fruit scare tactics that they've used in the past and
• 28:35
  we're in the then they fight you stage like we know where they
• 28:37
  want to go. Of course they are trying to
• 28:39
  play 5D chess and they're trying to position themselves to stop
• 28:44
  you guys from taking Bitcoin into custody from basically
• 28:47
  owning your own money. It's it's like putting your
• 28:48
  money in your wallet. They're basically saying you
• 28:50
  can't have cash in your wallet. Guys, that's an illegal thing.
• 28:53
  Only criminals do that. But since we are dealing with a
• 28:56
  new technology, you can tell that they understand that most
• 29:00
  people don't understand what's going on.
• 29:02
  And so they're trying to gaslight the population and get
• 29:05
  ahead of this and call us all criminals and all we're really
• 29:07
  trying to do is protect ourselves.
• 29:08
  So I do love the fact that Cynthia Lummus is saying this
• 29:12
  stuff and hopefully more politicians do say this.
• 29:14
  But again, you know, you guys know what I said yesterday.
• 29:16
  I've been getting a little black pilled in regards to the
• 29:19
  political favor of Bitcoin because they always seem to stab
• 29:22
  us in the back. But hey, she's saying what we've
• 29:25
  been saying here on simply Bitcoin.
• 29:26
  So at least the signal is getting out there and more
• 29:28
  people are waking up that this is actually what's happening.
• 29:31
  We know that they want to stop you guys from taking control of
• 29:34
  your money because as Chrissy Lagarde said, you know, Bitcoin
• 29:37
  is the escape hatch. And if there is an escape hatch,
• 29:40
  people are going to use it. And we're seeing that people are
• 29:42
  using it. And I think the move that we're
• 29:45
  seeing of them trying to stop Bitcoin adoption, stop the on
• 29:49
  and off ramps, stop people cussing their Bitcoin just
• 29:52
  really goes to show that, like this Bitcoin thing is catching
• 29:56
  on and they're doing their best to stop it.
• 29:58
  And it just makes me feel like man, and we're winning so hard.
• 30:01
  Yeah. And and again, like I, I, I just
• 30:03
  like as long as the discussion is brought up to light, they're
• 30:09
  going to have a much more difficult time.
• 30:11
  And I I think that's really what we have to push for.
• 30:14
  More politicians like Cynthia Lamas, like making the
• 30:17
  discussion out in the open, people are aware of it because
• 30:21
  then they won't be able to. Mighty Sue was talking about the
• 30:23
  Overton Window, which is something that you guys know
• 30:25
  that I bring up every other day, right?
• 30:28
  The goal of us bitcoiners is to really shift the Overton window
• 30:32
  in terms of of normalizing self custody, right?
• 30:36
  Because if it starts to be normalized in the eyes of the
• 30:39
  public, then they can't convince people that somehow it's
• 30:43
  dangerous, right? And I I made this as a you know
• 30:46
  and you're gonna appreciate this money.
• 30:47
  So but I said this as a joke where I said guys now we know
• 30:51
  the playbook. In order to get a Libertarian
• 30:53
  candidate elected, all we need is 150% inflation.
• 30:56
  Of course I'm. I'm referencing Javier Malay and
• 30:59
  and and Argentina. Right.
• 31:00
  So you know and and that was a huge shift in the Overton window
• 31:03
  people people were sick and tired of the of the traditional
• 31:05
  parties and they're like it's time to try something new.
• 31:08
  And it seems like he's already got inflation under control and
• 31:10
  he's only been in office a couple months.
• 31:12
  Right. Well look at that.
• 31:13
  Austrian economics works. How crazy is that?
• 31:16
  No, but you know what and I and I want to make a few points
• 31:18
  here. So for for the for what happened
• 31:20
  in Argentina to be able to repeat itself in a place like
• 31:22
  say Venezuela. The the real winner of the
• 31:24
  Argentinian election was not Javier Malay.
• 31:26
  Was the Argentinian democratic system because it allowed a
• 31:29
  change of power or a change in the guards that never no one
• 31:33
  thought would be would be possible.
• 31:35
  For example, in Venezuela we can't have free and fair
• 31:38
  elections to throw away Maduro because they know they will lose
• 31:41
  the second they lose. They know they're going to end
• 31:42
  up in The Hague And so if they allow themselves to lose,
• 31:46
  they're not going to voluntarily, you know, buy
• 31:48
  themselves a ticket to The Hague.
• 31:49
  And so they don't allow free and fair elections for Argentina.
• 31:52
  To have done so is an is an admirable feat and I applaud
• 31:55
  Argentinians and I'm very, very happy and I hope that the that
• 31:59
  the renewed strength in the Argentinian peso is not a valid
• 32:02
  enough reason to say that you don't need to kill it anymore.
• 32:03
  You need to end the central bank.
• 32:04
  You still need to do that. So don't, don't lose track of
• 32:07
  that. The second point that I'm trying
• 32:09
  to make around why this why Bitcoin bothers or what Bitcoin
• 32:14
  is a thorn in so many people's shoes, is because I'll give you
• 32:17
  the example of what happened in Venezuela when the government
• 32:20
  started mismanaging the economy and printing money into
• 32:22
  Infinity, the US dollar, which back then acted as our Bitcoin
• 32:27
  started soaring. And what the government does is
• 32:30
  it said, no, these it's only speculators that are transacting
• 32:33
  in this speculative asset, the US dollar.
• 32:35
  We're going to cap that and we're going to only be able,
• 32:38
  we're going to be the only ones able to sell and buy dollars to
• 32:41
  the citizens through US, the central bank at this rate that
• 32:44
  we fixed. And so when they do so, they
• 32:46
  effectively create the government market and the
• 32:50
  people's market because people won't stop meaning U.S. dollars
• 32:53
  and the government's quota won't do enough for your business.
• 32:55
  So you'll go and start buying and selling, you know U.S.
• 32:58
  dollars that will create a parallel break.
• 33:02
  So a parallel value to your local currency.
• 33:05
  A a, a value that people will look at and they'll and they'll
• 33:08
  say, Oh my God, like why is it? Why are these two values so out
• 33:11
  of sync? Is the government lying to me?
• 33:13
  News flash, yes they are. But this this lie keeps getting
• 33:17
  bigger and bigger and bigger because they are reluctant to
• 33:20
  basically mark to market their their exchange rate with
• 33:23
  reality. So they'll find any which way to
• 33:25
  not have to mark to market their their their mismanagement.
• 33:30
  Bitcoin. You know when when people would
• 33:33
  say oh the US economy is crashing people would say no
• 33:35
  look at the look at the house prices look at the prices of
• 33:37
  gold and things like that they would say no house prices are
• 33:40
  rising because we have so much immigration into the US
• 33:42
  everybody wants to live here which is not building them fast
• 33:44
  enough. We know that's BS the the the
• 33:47
  house doesn't get better over time, OK?
• 33:48
  Your your dollars get weaker that we we all know that by now.
• 33:51
  But there's this fancy explanation as to why if your
• 33:54
  house grows in value or why your the US government gone goes up
• 33:57
  in value or U.S. stocks go up in value.
• 33:59
  There's always this idea of American companies are doing
• 34:02
  great or the US bond market is great.
• 34:04
  Look at our Air Force carriers. Everybody wants to be holding
• 34:07
  their money in US bonds. They have these beautiful
• 34:10
  narratives that are pro America for the debasement of currency
• 34:13
  or amongst all these other assets.
• 34:14
  But along comes this asset like Bitcoin that just shows you that
• 34:18
  it's just going into Infinity. And it's not that it's doing
• 34:20
  anything special. It is the dollar getting
• 34:22
  destroyed and mismanaged and it's just lying in front of your
• 34:25
  face and they're trying to do everything they can to stop it
• 34:28
  from flying. But it won't 100.
• 34:31
  Percent. And the rant.
• 34:32
  And the rant. No, dude, wait, wait, ranch a
• 34:34
  little more because we got a trolley question in here for
• 34:36
  you, Marisa. And he goes, what's our guest
• 34:38
  think of the Venezuelan Blvd. So I've I've wrote a piece a
• 34:43
  while back and it says bad money doesn't die, it just resets.
• 34:47
  And I'll tell you this, in Venezuela in my lifetime there's
• 34:51
  been 14 zeros wiped off the currency.
• 34:55
  A number of zeros in a trillion. You find me another currency
• 34:58
  that deserves to die. More than that, there there
• 35:00
  isn't one. It it should have been dead wild
• 35:03
  long ago. But the government won't kill
• 35:04
  Fiat. And this might not be the the
• 35:08
  most popular comment among people listening.
• 35:11
  But the governments won't kill FIA.
• 35:13
  It's it's impossible for them to kill Fiat.
• 35:15
  It's almost it's it's they they they can't do it.
• 35:18
  It's too powerful of a tool. Like the Venezuelan Bolivia
• 35:20
  should have been dead a long time ago.
• 35:22
  The Cuban currency should have been dead a long time ago.
• 35:24
  The Argentinian currency, Zimbabwean currency, like there
• 35:27
  are so many currencies that should have died that haven't
• 35:32
  and won't because they are and the reason they don't, it goes
• 35:36
  all the way back to politics. If you go to Venezuela today,
• 35:39
  there are still people using the Oliver and you ask them why and
• 35:43
  they'll say because it's the one currency that's accepted
• 35:45
  everywhere. And it's it's it's ludicrous
• 35:48
  because these guys have been through million percent
• 35:50
  inflation. But you go and ask them where
• 35:53
  inflation comes from or what it is, and you won't get a straight
• 35:56
  answer. In Venezuela, pull 10 people on
• 35:59
  the street and nine of them won't be able to tell you where
• 36:02
  inflation comes from, even though we've suffered and gotten
• 36:05
  destroyed by hyperinflation. And that will hold true on most
• 36:09
  economies. Like go outside, I, I, I
• 36:12
  challenge you. Go ask 10 people wherever you
• 36:15
  live where inflation comes from, and the answers will completely
• 36:18
  surprise you. Yeah, 100% people.
• 36:21
  People are just like they're we need we need we have a lot of
• 36:27
  work to do from the educational perspective to say the least
• 36:29
  right. We have a lot we have a
• 36:30
  tremendous amount of work. Anyways I saw a question in the
• 36:34
  chat from James his link to lend for loans guys better on the
• 36:38
  screen guys we've been pulling it up right there.
• 36:40
  If you guys check out Mauricio's name under it, under it go to
• 36:43
  LEDN dot IO so you can go check out the the.
• 36:49
  How do you say it? What do you say I keep
• 36:50
  mispronouncing it. Leon.
• 36:52
  Leon. No.
• 36:52
  But it's good. You know what?
• 36:54
  When we were coming up with it, people would ask us, how do you
• 36:57
  pronounce it? How do you pronounce it?
• 36:58
  And I would always say Lenin, but my I always said in the
• 37:02
  future Lenin will be the IT will be the correct way of writing
• 37:05
  Len. So Len like Len, it's working.
• 37:07
  The verb Lenin The verb to Len will be synonymous to Len so.
• 37:11
  It's it's it's already working, 'cause I already said it.
• 37:14
  All right, OK, All right, everybody, let's get to the
• 37:16
  news. We have a lot to talk about
• 37:17
  today. Let's check it out.
• 37:18
  Here we go. The Daily News.
• 37:25
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  not your cheese. If you pair this up with the
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  Envoy app, by the way, it makes it incredibly easy to spend.
• 38:37
  If you want to do that for whatever reason, don't suggest
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  it. You got a huddle.
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  But if you do want to spend your cold storage Bitcoin, you know
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  you could pair it up with the Envoy app makes it incredibly
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  easy. The Envoy app allows you for it
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  to be connected to your own node.
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  It's absolutely awesome. When I showed it to Opti, Opti
• 38:54
  was like, wow, this is incredibly easy.
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  So guys, take self custody or Bitcoin.
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  Get yourself a harder wallet. Of course you recommend our
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  sponsor, Passport Foundation devices.
• 39:03
  Wait, wait, Nico, before you go on, passported on Volley is opti
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  proof. OPTI proof.
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  There we go. I don't know what that means,
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  but I'm assuming it's a good thing.
• 39:11
  Left side of the bell curve confirmed.
• 39:13
  So it's so easy to use. I'm telling you like it's it's
• 39:18
  incredibly easy guys, You don't understand.
• 39:22
  Mighty Sue, you've been here for a minute.
• 39:24
  Like, bro, eight years ago, like when I first got into this, self
• 39:28
  custody sucked ass. I'm gonna say OK, it just like
• 39:32
  bro. Like it was not easy.
• 39:34
  It was not like it was like Alien.
• 39:36
  You had like the devices that were available like it.
• 39:39
  Like so many great entrepreneurs, so many great
• 39:41
  companies are solving this issue and it's become incredibly easy.
• 39:45
  But it wasn't back in the day. It was not, man, I I still
• 39:49
  remember people sending me like bread wallet and things like
• 39:51
  paper like it was it was not that they're bad, but like there
• 39:54
  was no hard hardware devices for quality.
• 39:57
  Hardware devices that were easy to use were very hard to find.
• 39:59
  Yeah, and then it made cold storage like difficult, right?
• 40:02
  So it's like it's It's so much easier nowadays anyways.
• 40:06
  OK. So I I do want to do an ETF
• 40:09
  update. I do want to talk about the
• 40:10
  macro stuff, the Fed meeting Mauricio we were talking about
• 40:13
  earlier. I think it it completely relates
• 40:16
  to why you guys tuned in today, which is what is going on with
• 40:19
  the price of Bitcoin. Is it BlackRock?
• 40:21
  Is it suppression? Yesterday we made the argument
• 40:23
  that the, I don't think it's a coincidence that the the Hong
• 40:27
  Kong ETF which has to be approved by the CCP.
• 40:29
  We showed you guys the Bloomberg article it released and the
• 40:32
  price of Bitcoin dumped. Obviously CCP isn't a big fan of
• 40:35
  Bitcoin. They've attacked the price
• 40:38
  before when they banned Bitcoin mining in the last run up.
• 40:41
  I believe that's one of the primary reasons as to why
• 40:43
  Bitcoin didn't hit 100K last cycle.
• 40:46
  And as soon as that ETF was released, price of Bitcoin
• 40:50
  dumped. Oh by the way, super chat from
• 40:51
  vague Thank you for the $5. Bitcoin is under attack from
• 40:55
  every angle these days. Don't let the feds shake you
• 40:57
  out. Stay humble, Stack Sats and
• 40:59
  huddle on, and also stay solvent.
• 41:03
  So I want to talk about all this.
• 41:04
  But look, guys, I mean, it speaks for itself.
• 41:07
  We used to show you guys this every single day.
• 41:10
  And then I was like, why am I going to show this anymore?
• 41:12
  Because literally these numbers have been going sideways for a
• 41:15
  while. So in terms of the inflows for
• 41:19
  BlackRock, they've been frozen. Not as in like Frozen, as in
• 41:22
  they're not accepting inflows, but they've been going sideways
• 41:25
  for the last four days. That's never happened before
• 41:28
  Fidelity. It's the same.
• 41:30
  It's been going sideways for the last four days.
• 41:32
  Arc's the same. Seems like the grayscale 1
• 41:35
  continues to like fall off a Cliff.
• 41:38
  But Modicio was making a really good point and it actually, and
• 41:43
  I remember I, I, I, I I was speaking to my dad this morning
• 41:47
  and he gave me the same answer that Mauricio was saying, which
• 41:49
  is like, you know, the Fed meeting that's going to be
• 41:52
  happening on later today is playing a huge role.
• 41:57
  And I remember I was reading this article, one of the
• 42:00
  newsletters that I'm described, that I'm subscribed to.
• 42:04
  And basically what it was making the case for is that the root
• 42:10
  cause of demand drying up for the ETFs is is found at the
• 42:16
  macro level. And it was making the case that
• 42:19
  basically Bitcoin isn't the only major asset to perform poorly
• 42:23
  this month. So mighty.
• 42:24
  So I know you're more well versed on the traditional
• 42:28
  financial side of things. So what is going on with the
• 42:31
  Fed? What are people waiting for?
• 42:33
  Why is the price dumping like it was?
• 42:36
  I thought we were going up forever.
• 42:37
  Laura, you know what happened. Well first of all my my my
• 42:42
  crystal ball is broken. No, I'm kidding.
• 42:44
  But no nobody has and obviously not not financial advice and all
• 42:47
  the fun jazz. But I will say to the point
• 42:50
  someone else I think Derek or somebody was making in the
• 42:51
  comments like yes, we in Bitcoin tend to see every Bitcoin price
• 42:56
  move as a Bitcoin centric event. We we believe we live in a
• 42:59
  Bitcoin centric world. So when Bitcoin's moving it must
• 43:01
  be that something went wrong with Bitcoin or if Bitcoin did
• 43:03
  something right. My view was actually not the
• 43:06
  case. I think Bitcoin does not operate
• 43:08
  in a vacuum we operate. It's very much a macro asset
• 43:10
  these days. And if you look at what's been
• 43:12
  happening with macro assets recently, there's a couple of
• 43:14
  things that to to consider. Number one is bitcoins comes
• 43:18
  from an absolute tear of a run up from 20 K to basically 73 K
• 43:23
  blew through a brand new all time high and a year.
• 43:26
  All of this in the context of interest rates being 5 and 1/4,
• 43:29
  which is no one expected a risk asset like Bitcoin to go up this
• 43:33
  way in in an environment like this.
• 43:35
  Then you layer on the fact that you have an asset like gold move
• 43:39
  up 20% since January. And just put this into context,
• 43:43
  gold is a $15 trillion asset class.
• 43:45
  So when gold goes up 20%, that means there's two equivalents of
• 43:49
  two entire Bitcoin market caps added into gold.
• 43:52
  OK. So gold as of this morning
• 43:55
  before it came in, has been down 5% over the last, over the last
• 43:58
  little bit over the last two weeks, sorry.
• 44:00
  And that equates to about $750 million.
• 44:02
  So that's almost one Bitcoin market cap and change that gold
• 44:07
  is down. So again in percentage terms
• 44:09
  it's Bitcoin. Obviously it's down further than
• 44:11
  gold. But in absolute terms what's
• 44:12
  happening in gold dwarfs every type of price section we're
• 44:15
  seeing in Bitcoin. Now there's there's now the
• 44:18
  other thing is when the ETFs came online, the buyers around
• 44:22
  ETFs and and the registered investment advisors and such,
• 44:26
  they are a lot of the ETF positioning is going to come
• 44:28
  from registered investment advisors and registered
• 44:30
  investment advisors have to respond to their clients for
• 44:32
  their allocation, a lot of them and this you yourself listening
• 44:37
  can put yourself in the shoes of a registered investment advisor.
• 44:40
  Would you recommend to your client to add Bitcoin to their
• 44:43
  portfolios at an all time high of 73 K in interest rates of
• 44:48
  five and a quarter or would you decide that you're going to wait
• 44:51
  and put your client in or suggest that your client buys in
• 44:54
  when you're not at all time high so that you have a little better
• 44:56
  chances of performing better? My answers would be on the
• 44:59
  latter. I think a lot of the flows that
• 45:01
  we saw at the beginning of the year was people coming in like
• 45:04
  individual investors coming in and there have been some
• 45:07
  allocations from some registered investments, RIAS and wealth
• 45:10
  managers, but not to the extent that that that I would have
• 45:15
  expected and largely because of the price action and the
• 45:17
  positioning. I think that when you look at
• 45:19
  the reports for Q2, you're going to see a lot more people
• 45:23
  allocated into Bitcoin ETFs thanks to the investment
• 45:26
  advisors because they're much more comfortable bringing them
• 45:28
  in at say 50 than they would be at 70.
• 45:31
  So the market got ahead of itself in terms of, you know,
• 45:34
  Bitcoin getting ahead of itself with the housing and the ETFSI
• 45:36
  think this is a natural correction in price and I think
• 45:38
  this is very much macro driven. This is not Bitcoin related.
• 45:41
  I think this is a good buying opportunity, frankly, not
• 45:43
  investment advice. 100%, I 100% agree with you.
• 45:46
  Not investment advice. Consolidation is good.
• 45:49
  Like the fact that we ripped, you know, it was literally like
• 45:53
  a straight line up like that tends not to be good.
• 45:57
  You don't want it to just go like that because it's going to
• 46:00
  end the run short or something like that.
• 46:03
  The, the, the bigger the rip and the the longer it goes for the
• 46:07
  bigger the hangover, right. So if we start consolidating at
• 46:10
  these prices, you know it kind of sets the sets the platform
• 46:15
  for if Bitcoin follows the like the historical pattern, it sets
• 46:20
  the platform for the party of next year, right.
• 46:23
  The kind of the blow off top, the parabola phase of 2025 when
• 46:27
  hopefully we break 100K, maybe we break 100K at the end of the
• 46:30
  year. Who knows, right?
• 46:31
  No one has a crystal ball. But you said something really
• 46:34
  interesting. You buried the lead there and I
• 46:35
  kind of wanted to double back to it because this has never
• 46:38
  happened before in Bitcoin's history and I I don't think
• 46:41
  people understand the significance of this.
• 46:45
  We touched upon it a little bit when the ETF was approved, but
• 46:49
  for the first time you have some of the best salesman in the
• 46:52
  world, right, that are pitching some of the wealthiest people in
• 46:57
  the world on Bitcoin. So could you talk a little bit
• 47:01
  about that because you're talking about investment
• 47:03
  advisors and I think you know if you're a bitcoiner perhaps like
• 47:08
  you know you're you're you're not exposed to that side of of
• 47:10
  traditional finance. So they say traditional finance,
• 47:13
  perhaps you're not aware of what's going on, but you know
• 47:16
  you have these wealth managers that you know have a tremendous
• 47:21
  amount of of of of of assets under management, right.
• 47:24
  They have wealthy clients and they're pitching them on
• 47:27
  Bitcoin. Can you talk a little bit about
• 47:29
  that money soon? Because I think that's a game
• 47:30
  changer, in my opinion, a. 100% and and I think what the ETFs to
• 47:34
  me the most exciting thing about the ETFs again it's it's the
• 47:39
  ETFs just open. They're a wrapper on Bitcoin.
• 47:41
  A wrapper that made not many people use, watching this show
• 47:45
  would ever want to use outside of a say a 401K or a registered
• 47:48
  investment or tax sheltered account.
• 47:50
  But it is a wrapper that many people that do have those really
• 47:54
  large, you know retirement accounts or 401 KS can now
• 47:58
  access Bitcoin through those accounts, which might.
• 48:01
  There's a lot of wealth packed in retirement savings in the US
• 48:04
  at like an an absurd amount. And that wealth did not have
• 48:07
  access to spot Bitcoin in the past, or at least not in an easy
• 48:09
  way. And believe it or not, a lot of
• 48:11
  people in this stage of their lives are not necessarily the
• 48:14
  most tech forward and they're not necessarily the most
• 48:17
  comfortable holding self custody.
• 48:18
  As much as many of us on this show are huge advocates for it
• 48:21
  and we we will recommend people with hold self custody.
• 48:23
  But some people just, they don't feel like they have the the, the
• 48:26
  the wits to do it or the mental, you know, or the OR the right
• 48:30
  estate planning to do this comfortably.
• 48:32
  So they'll go, they'll run to the ETS.
• 48:34
  You have these sales people now that to your point equal an army
• 48:37
  of sales people that manage a lot of wealth that are now going
• 48:40
  to their clients to say, hey, I can now put you in Bitcoin.
• 48:42
  I'm sure you know this is these are the reasons why you should
• 48:45
  come in. A lot of those clients are
• 48:47
  looking to make that conversation as easy as
• 48:49
  possible. And so when they're having this
• 48:50
  conversation with their clients, you know, they'll go something
• 48:53
  like, hey you know, we just have the new ETF.
• 48:55
  They need a few things. One, they need these ETFs to at
• 48:58
  least have operated for about 1/4 like at least 1/4 like one
• 49:01
  reporting cycle. So they have some sense of who
• 49:03
  holds what, how did they perform, what are the volumes,
• 49:05
  what's depth. Once this is through, they'll
• 49:08
  say OK, what I'll wait till the right entry point so that I can
• 49:11
  go and recommend this to my clients.
• 49:13
  An all time high of 73 K after a 3X rally in the last two months
• 49:17
  is not necessarily the most conservative point to bringing
• 49:20
  someone into a new asset class, especially if they're learning
• 49:23
  about it for the first time. So they were likely waiting for
• 49:27
  a dip. These, these big pools of money
• 49:30
  were not going to Yolo in at all time highs and bring their
• 49:32
  clients on, you know, buying market buying relentlessly.
• 49:38
  They were gonna wait. They're much more deliberate,
• 49:40
  They're much more thoughtful. And I think that you're going to
• 49:42
  see some of them start coming in and those flows will likely get
• 49:45
  reversed. I think a lot of people,
• 49:48
  frankly, especially in the investor community, are sitting
• 49:49
  on their hands until this Fed meeting because a lot of people
• 49:52
  expect the Fed to come up a lot more hawkish and say that
• 49:55
  they're going to need to keep rates higher for longer than
• 49:57
  anyone thought. And they might even glimpse that
• 49:59
  they won't be able to cut rates this year, which I think is what
• 50:03
  people are a little bit fearful of.
• 50:05
  So once this cloud from the Fed is removed, I think you're going
• 50:09
  to see a little more stability in the markets.
• 50:12
  At least that's what I would expect to see. 100% and and and
• 50:14
  and people haven't been and people have been anticipating
• 50:17
  right and and and I'm gonna put my little guys that have a
• 50:20
  little Nico macro hat on shout out dad but yeah inflation's
• 50:24
  been sticky they can't they can't bring it down full
• 50:26
  employment which means massive consumer spending and they can't
• 50:31
  you know they can't bring it down right so you know it's what
• 50:34
  you said Monisu. I think people are expecting the
• 50:37
  Fed to basically not signal anything saying like look like
• 50:40
  we can't do anything. We have to bring inflation under
• 50:42
  control. It's not coming.
• 50:44
  It's like our usual tools of of bringing it down is not working.
• 50:47
  There's full employment, people are spending what's going on and
• 50:52
  I think there's consequences to it.
• 50:53
  And I think Bitcoin's reached to such high levels that now it is
• 50:57
  considered like a macro asset, like it's still, you know, it's
• 51:01
  I agree with Sailor, it still is an alternative asset 100%.
• 51:05
  But it's still it's graduated, right.
• 51:10
  It's it's no longer this, like, you know, this little kind of
• 51:13
  like side thing, especially at these market caps, right?
• 51:16
  For $1.1 trillion exposure from BlackRock.
• 51:20
  BlackRock owns, you know, basically 1% of the supply,
• 51:24
  right? 274,000 Bitcoin.
• 51:26
  I think I'm doing the math wrong.
• 51:28
  Or math right or wrong. Yeah, it's 1%, right.
• 51:30
  It's a little bit more than 1%. I think so.
• 51:32
  It's it's more it's more than 1%.
• 51:35
  So yeah, I mean they they, they own a huge portion of, let me
• 51:39
  see what the math is, it's 1.3%, so close, close.
• 51:43
  So they own a huge portion of the Bitcoin supply and I think
• 51:45
  there's there's definitely influence there.
• 51:47
  Opti, what's your take on all this?
• 51:49
  Before we get on to the culture to talk about, I'm gonna say
• 51:54
  lend again. Lead in lead.
• 51:57
  In lead in you're dude, the marketing is working bro.
• 51:59
  The marketing is working lead in.
• 52:02
  Before we talk about lead in anyways, Opti, what's your take
• 52:05
  on well? I absolutely love Mauricio's
• 52:07
  insight it it definitely gives a whole picture of what's going
• 52:11
  on. And you know all of us
• 52:13
  bitcoiners, at least all my friends, we all think of Bitcoin
• 52:16
  as a risk off asset. But as Mauricio said earlier,
• 52:20
  Bitcoin doesn't live in a vacuum and there is a lot of other
• 52:25
  factors that are now pushing on Bitcoin and now all of us
• 52:29
  bitcoiners, especially me, like I'm I'm the type of Bitcoiner
• 52:32
  that like completely doesn't care about what's going on with
• 52:35
  any of the macro stuff. I'm just like just hold Bitcoin.
• 52:38
  That's all that really matters. The only free market money in
• 52:40
  the world that to me that's the only thing that matters.
• 52:42
  But that's also like a very naive shallow understanding of
• 52:48
  what's going on. Guys, we are in a point right
• 52:50
  now where Bitcoin is maturing and it there is a lot of other
• 52:53
  factors going on there and everyone in the chat knows
• 52:55
  especially we talk about this constantly that the Bitcoin
• 52:59
  price moves on the margin because of traders.
• 53:01
  And if we're seeing everything we're seeing in the world right
• 53:04
  now, of course people are trying to prop it off the market.
• 53:06
  So if they can still move the Bitcoin price, we know they're
• 53:09
  going to do that because they make money off of it.
• 53:11
  So it's just one of those things where like don't freak out.
• 53:15
  We knew that this was going to happen.
• 53:16
  I think historically, we've seen around like 5 or 6 corrections
• 53:23
  through a bull market. And so as we've said throughout
• 53:26
  the whole show, this is a very healthy correction.
• 53:28
  If we just completely ripped, then it would have probably not
• 53:33
  gone as far as we'd like it to. So we definitely need a strong
• 53:38
  foundation for us to make a incredible move in the next
• 53:41
  what, 12 to 18 months. So no time to freak out.
• 53:46
  This is this is standard par for the course movements in Bitcoin.
• 53:50
  Bitcoin doesn't just move up completely you know from 0 to $1
• 53:55
  million in a straight line. But it is very important to
• 53:59
  remember that Bitcoin is starting to enter the macro
• 54:03
  conversation and it's something to I think be aware of as a
• 54:07
  bitcoiner that only focuses on Bitcoin.
• 54:09
  And again, I say it all the time and and we all know, and
• 54:11
  Mauricio touched on it as well. You know, we joke about buying
• 54:14
  historical tops or local tops because they're historical time
• 54:17
  stamps and we're proud of buying the tops.
• 54:19
  And we're like, yeah, we don't trade Bitcoin.
• 54:22
  We just buy whenever we can. And I mean I was even putting
• 54:26
  like stupid market orders of buying Bitcoin at 69420 last top
• 54:30
  and got absolutely wrecked. But like I really don't care.
• 54:32
  It's just like it's fun to have that that price point be like,
• 54:36
  yeah, I bought it there and in the future I'll be the one
• 54:39
  laughing. And so we know that all of you
• 54:42
  know that I hate using the the meme smart money.
• 54:45
  But when I say smart money, everyone knows what I'm talking
• 54:47
  about. But smart money doesn't FOMO
• 54:50
  into markets. They take a long time to get
• 54:52
  their positions. They're very OK with taking
• 54:55
  their time to get into a position to know what they want
• 54:59
  to actually invest in. Like a lot of my Bitcoin
• 55:01
  friends, we just yellowed into Bitcoin and then on the back end
• 55:05
  we tried to understand Bitcoin. That's not how quote UN quote,
• 55:08
  smart money moves. They understand the markets
• 55:11
  before they get into the markets.
• 55:13
  And again, guys, the, the ETFs just got dropped what like 3
• 55:17
  months ago. And so now that all the
• 55:19
  institutions have an opportunity to get into Bitcoin, it's not
• 55:22
  like they're going to FOMO straight into the market.
• 55:24
  They're going to understand what the market is.
• 55:26
  They got to understand what Bitcoin is.
• 55:28
  You know what all of us didn't do.
• 55:30
  So I think Mauricio's point is, once Q2 ends, I think we're
• 55:35
  going to see a lot more exposure into Bitcoin.
• 55:39
  And then on that same point, you know, I say it all the time, the
• 55:41
  billionaire Bitcoin flood playbook, it's always the same.
• 55:44
  You flood Bitcoin, you don't like Bitcoin, while the whole
• 55:47
  time you're stacking Bitcoin, you're trying to move the
• 55:49
  Bitcoin market. And until that playbook doesn't
• 55:52
  work, they're going to continue to do it.
• 55:54
  So just keep stacking, make sure you have some dry powder if
• 55:57
  you're smart or not. Just do what I do and buy local
• 56:00
  tops and just, you know build some character and understand
• 56:04
  what you're holding. This is just par for the course
• 56:07
  for bitcoiners. But I do want to mention one
• 56:09
  thing Nico last week, I'm pretty sure it was last week or maybe
• 56:14
  maybe I'm mixing up my time frame.
• 56:16
  But BlackRock just did a like Bitcoin for or corporations for
• 56:21
  Bitcoin conference. We have MicroStrategy doing one.
• 56:24
  I I believe it just started today.
• 56:26
  It's happening this week. So that conversation is
• 56:29
  happening And again, guys, they move slower.
• 56:31
  They're on Titanic boats while we're on life rafts, and we can
• 56:35
  be as agile as we want, but it takes time for them to get their
• 56:38
  exposure to to fully pack their bags.
• 56:41
  And until that happens, we're just going to get some cheap
• 56:44
  sets. So it is what it is.
• 56:46
  Man 100% a hundred. Go ahead.
• 56:48
  That deserves. I don't have the controls but
• 56:50
  that deserves that I got. It oh man oh man.
• 56:55
  Opti slang it up. Wow bro.
• 56:57
  We we we put on our macro. Hats today like Nico, as I say
• 57:01
  all the time, you know, I'm so left side of the bell curve that
• 57:04
  I transcend the bell curve and I end up on the right side.
• 57:06
  So hey, you know. Opti for the win.
• 57:08
  Opti for the win, bro. All right guys, we do to give a
• 57:12
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• 57:58
  There's also the Simply Bitcoin group chat.
• 58:00
  It's been absolutely popping in there.
• 58:02
  By the way. Appreciate you guys being so
• 58:04
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• 58:57
  When you sell your mining equipment with kaboom racks,
• 59:00
  what are you waiting for? Start your Bitcoin mining to
• 59:02
  journey today. This is where I personally buy
• 59:05
  my Bitcoin mining A6 Opti. It's all yours.
• 59:09
  Let's go. All right.
• 59:10
  Well, Mauricio, this is where we get to talk about the stuff
• 59:14
  you're building. So I will pull up the website,
• 59:16
  but I guess before or as I'm doing that, let's plug lead in
• 59:20
  what who is the ideal customer and what is your goal as a
• 59:24
  company? Our ideal customer is any
• 59:28
  bitcoiner that doesn't want to sell their Bitcoin and they're
• 59:30
  had. They either want to divest or
• 59:31
  invest in a different asset class, or they need cash for
• 59:34
  some type of emergency and they don't want to sell their
• 59:36
  Bitcoin. The common thread is Bitcoin is
• 59:38
  your the the crown jewel of your portfolio and something came up
• 59:41
  either an investment opportunity or something came up in your
• 59:43
  life. Your dog had to get surgery for
• 59:45
  whatever reason. Like you know we've had people
• 59:47
  use our loans to buy houses in Mexico and we've had people use
• 59:50
  our loans to pay for surgeries for their cats in in 24 hours.
• 59:53
  So the use cases sort of range into all the things that you
• 59:56
  could potentially do with money. But the premise of or the
• 1:00:00
  premise of Lenin is basically an ability for you to get liquidity
• 1:00:03
  without having to go and sell your Bitcoin and create a
• 1:00:05
  taxable event for yourself and. The genesis of Leadin was really
• 1:00:08
  I was tired of selling my Bitcoin.
• 1:00:10
  I started mining. Nico knows this.
• 1:00:12
  I started mining in Venezuela with my family and helped many
• 1:00:15
  people set up other mines and grow their mines.
• 1:00:17
  And the second you get your first Bitcoin, you won the
• 1:00:18
  second one and the third one, and you want to grow the mine.
• 1:00:21
  But to grow the mine you have to sell the Bitcoin, which was a
• 1:00:23
  horrible financial decision time and again and nobody would give
• 1:00:27
  us a loan. And out of, you know,
• 1:00:30
  frustration, half frustration and half seeing a massive
• 1:00:33
  opportunity ahead of us, we decided to try to solve our own
• 1:00:36
  problem with the with the 5th. The thesis that if we got to
• 1:00:39
  solve our own problem by borrowing, you know, by getting,
• 1:00:42
  by obtaining, financing, putting a Bitcoin as collateral.
• 1:00:44
  We were in Canada at the time. Bitcoin is Bitcoin no matter
• 1:00:47
  where it is. So we were going to be able to
• 1:00:48
  offer this to minors everywhere and to people everywhere.
• 1:00:51
  And that's how the story played out.
• 1:00:52
  We were able to issue Canada's first Bitcoin back loan in
• 1:00:55
  November 2018, actually to bills and to Francis Gulio, Many
• 1:00:59
  probably of you here know. And then from there on out, we
• 1:01:02
  just kept helping other Bitcoiners in Canada.
• 1:01:04
  Then we expanded the service to the US, Mexico and other places.
• 1:01:07
  And and yeah, now we service 125 countries and it's been
• 1:01:12
  phenomenal. That's awesome, That's cool.
• 1:01:14
  I've been in that situation, but I've personally taken Bitcoin
• 1:01:20
  back loan to go full D Gen. and buy more Bitcoin, which I don't
• 1:01:26
  recommend. But I am guilty of that myself
• 1:01:29
  and no and also too like I was telling this to Mauricio but
• 1:01:35
  I'll I'll give you guys the TLDR before we this is way too long
• 1:01:40
  of a conversation but essentially guys if you start
• 1:01:43
  making content don't expect to make money for like 2 years.
• 1:01:48
  So like at minimum you know and then and then it's a different
• 1:01:52
  story. But yeah you know there was
• 1:01:54
  definitely situations where I'm like dude, like holy cow like I
• 1:01:57
  I really believe in simply I want to grow my business I want
• 1:02:00
  to grow whatever. But I also need money to pay for
• 1:02:03
  food and eat and live right? Cuz you kinda need that right?
• 1:02:07
  So it kinda creates a situation where you know you can use these
• 1:02:11
  types of offerings and products. We got a comment from higher
• 1:02:16
  calling Love love the platform. Seems like we have some some
• 1:02:21
  some users already in the in the audience.
• 1:02:23
  Anyway, so I remember from our conversation in Texas we were
• 1:02:27
  together at Bitlock Boom. What do you show that you?
• 1:02:30
  If my memory serves me correctly, you offer two types
• 1:02:34
  of collateral loans right? So one that is it, it doesn't
• 1:02:38
  move the Bitcoin right And then another one that is is more so
• 1:02:43
  put into what are the difference between the two?
• 1:02:46
  Yes. So as as you know and as
• 1:02:47
  everybody knows, when you're lending and when any, any
• 1:02:50
  lending product has risk, OK, any lending product that that
• 1:02:53
  requires you to transfer custody of your asset to anyone, whether
• 1:02:56
  it's Leaden or anyone else, there is an element of risk on
• 1:02:59
  that product because again you're transferring A collateral
• 1:03:02
  asset and you're getting a loan in return.
• 1:03:04
  But because our loans are over collateralized, you are putting
• 1:03:06
  more collateral than the loan that you're getting.
• 1:03:08
  So there is a financial risk for you.
• 1:03:10
  When you put your collateral anywhere, whether it's Leaden or
• 1:03:12
  any other lending company, there's an element of risk.
• 1:03:15
  We know that people have preferences and obviously, given
• 1:03:17
  everything that's happened, people need to have choice and
• 1:03:20
  they need to be able to pick the type of treatment and the type
• 1:03:23
  of risk they want to take. So at Lenin, there's two types
• 1:03:25
  of collateral treatments. There is our custodial loans or
• 1:03:28
  our custody loans where the assets just sit in cold storage
• 1:03:31
  throughout the loan. They come at a set interest
• 1:03:33
  rate. The interest rate for those
• 1:03:34
  loans right now is 17.9%. Then there's also our standard
• 1:03:37
  loans which give us the right to lend the Bitcoin collateral in
• 1:03:40
  the right market conditions to pass on those savings to you
• 1:03:43
  through a lower interest rate. And important interest rate on
• 1:03:46
  that loan from people's context is 14.4.
• 1:03:47
  So the difference is between 18 and 14.4.
• 1:03:50
  And importantly these two products are entirely ring
• 1:03:53
  fenced such that if there is any type of issue or risk or any
• 1:03:56
  event of of impairment on the standard laws, they would not
• 1:03:59
  impact the custody loans or other parts of the business.
• 1:04:02
  So the business has been basically ring fenced so that
• 1:04:05
  you know anything that happened in 2022 wouldn't create an
• 1:04:08
  existential risk to Leadin. And I I welcome anyone listening
• 1:04:11
  to this that that is potentially interested in our services or
• 1:04:13
  anyone else's to please do your diligence.
• 1:04:16
  We are an open book, we are actually.
• 1:04:18
  We have, we produce a report called the Open Book Report
• 1:04:20
  every month that shows clients how we use the assets internally
• 1:04:23
  at lead and how they're lent to power the products that exist.
• 1:04:25
  And we also provide proof of reserves every six months.
• 1:04:28
  We have a certified public accountant that comes into lead
• 1:04:30
  and produces a report that everyone can see and you can
• 1:04:32
  verify through the account this website to ensure that your
• 1:04:35
  balance to the penny and to the satoshi was included in that
• 1:04:38
  report. And our our most recent one
• 1:04:39
  actually was finished last month.
• 1:04:40
  So anyone listening can go check it out, but don't trust verify.
• 1:04:44
  Do your diligence. I even put a list of questions
• 1:04:47
  that you should ask lenders that I invite you to ask ourselves
• 1:04:49
  and anyone else. And you can find that on my
• 1:04:51
  Twitter. But yeah, yeah, that.
• 1:04:52
  That's basically it. 100 but beautiful and and and I love
• 1:04:56
  this question where I'm scrolling up to find it which is
• 1:05:00
  loco TX wait you can borrow against your BTC to buy more
• 1:05:05
  BTC. So like Sailor's infinite money
• 1:05:09
  glitch, except he has the power of a giant publicly traded
• 1:05:13
  Fortune 500 company to to leverage that essentially that's
• 1:05:18
  the the thing right now that being said, you guys have to
• 1:05:23
  understand that there's some you will get margin called if the
• 1:05:28
  price of Bitcoin starts to fluctuate.
• 1:05:30
  So you're on the hook for the amount that you borrowed, right
• 1:05:35
  and you put your Bitcoin up as collateral.
• 1:05:37
  It's generally it's, I don't know what the percentage it's,
• 1:05:39
  it's like 200% is it? 2 to one, yeah. 2 to one.
• 1:05:42
  OK, so you have to have 200% of the value of the original loan
• 1:05:48
  there. Now you guys can see where this
• 1:05:50
  gets very sticky as if you took out a loan at 74 K when we hit
• 1:05:55
  the top and now we're down to 57 K And you can potentially get
• 1:06:00
  yourself in a situation where if you don't have the sufficient
• 1:06:04
  Bitcoin to keep meeting that 200% collateral requirement, you
• 1:06:11
  get margin called right. So essentially you know platform
• 1:06:14
  has to protect itself. So you can get into very, very
• 1:06:18
  sticky situations, which is why I called myself AD Gen. when I
• 1:06:22
  did it and I survived and it, you know it was a happy ending.
• 1:06:28
  But during the experience, you know of course like it's not so
• 1:06:33
  much. However, what I would say to
• 1:06:36
  most people is don't do that. But you can do whatever you want
• 1:06:41
  with your money. But you know I would see this
• 1:06:45
  more so which is what I've been doing recently is for business
• 1:06:49
  expenses or for like life expenses and and stuff like
• 1:06:53
  that. This is a great is a great tool
• 1:06:57
  that you can add to your arsenal.
• 1:06:59
  Specifically also because remember guys, once you take a
• 1:07:01
  loan against your Bitcoin, it's not a taxable event because it's
• 1:07:06
  a loan. So that cash that you're
• 1:07:08
  getting, you're not paying income tax on it because it's a
• 1:07:11
  loan. And also, and again this isn't
• 1:07:13
  in in the ideal situation and if you're responsible and if you
• 1:07:17
  understand, if you understand the risk, what tends to happen
• 1:07:22
  over time is as the price of Bitcoin goes up higher, that
• 1:07:27
  amount of collateral tends to grow with it, right.
• 1:07:30
  So, and I'm assuming Marisa, you give the ability for people to
• 1:07:33
  withdraw after absolutely? Right.
• 1:07:35
  Absolutely. Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  And we prompt you to do so actually we we prompt you to
• 1:07:39
  take it out when you get over collateralized and and yeah I
• 1:07:43
  think the the point you're making are are bang on Nico so
• 1:07:45
  don't let me stop you. So yeah, it it it creates this
• 1:07:48
  like, you know, this beautiful situation where you know if
• 1:07:51
  you're responsible, if you don't over, you know, over leverage.
• 1:07:54
  I think maybe that's the correct term.
• 1:07:57
  It creates a situation where and and and and the the amount of
• 1:08:03
  the amount of quote UN quote Bitcoin that you that that you
• 1:08:06
  have collateralized. You can keep withdrawing it
• 1:08:08
  because the value of the Bitcoin keeps going higher, but the cash
• 1:08:12
  amount that you borrowed stays the same.
• 1:08:14
  You're actually paying it off. So it it it, you know, it's very
• 1:08:17
  interesting. If you're responsible, you can
• 1:08:20
  kind of use this to your advantage.
• 1:08:22
  That's the really key thing is. And remember sailors doing the
• 1:08:26
  exact same thing, just on a much more massive scale and a
• 1:08:30
  complicated scale. But essentially, it's the
• 1:08:32
  infinite money hack. It's the same asset.
• 1:08:35
  It's the same asset and it's the.
• 1:08:36
  Same liability. Basically what you're doing is
• 1:08:38
  you're going short dollars, long Bitcoin, OK, you're you're doing
• 1:08:41
  short, weak currency, long hard currency.
• 1:08:44
  This is the instrument, the instrument that's allowed
• 1:08:47
  Americans to with a large amount of leverage and subsidized by
• 1:08:51
  the government, to short their own dollar into Infinity to
• 1:08:54
  perpetuate their while doing so. And this product is called a
• 1:08:57
  mortgage because a mortgage, a lot of people see it as a loan
• 1:09:00
  to buy a house. It's actually a massive short on
• 1:09:02
  the US dollar, anchored by a physical property that is a
• 1:09:05
  house, in this case AUS residential property.
• 1:09:08
  So what we are doing is simply allowing you to borrow a weak
• 1:09:12
  instrument by holding a strong instrument and letting time do
• 1:09:16
  its thing. That's simple as that 100% and
• 1:09:19
  we got a question from and then I'll pass.
• 1:09:21
  It on to Opti cause I've been kind of hijacked it.
• 1:09:23
  I apologize Opti just have experience with the with the,
• 1:09:28
  with the level. Do you?
• 1:09:30
  Do you love it with the, with the?
• 1:09:32
  Collateralized loans anyways. So we have top roller in the
• 1:09:34
  chat. Can you ask him what he thinks
• 1:09:37
  of the of the current interest rate environment and he he
• 1:09:41
  expanded a little bit. He goes.
• 1:09:42
  I meant his. Business is all about interest
• 1:09:44
  rates. I'm only wondering if he thinks
• 1:09:46
  interest rates might come down in the next year or two.
• 1:09:49
  Yeah, I mean without getting into the weights.
• 1:09:51
  I I think that there's a limit to how long these rates can
• 1:09:54
  last. I think the economy is clearly
• 1:09:56
  suffering if you if you look at who's hiring and what's growing,
• 1:09:58
  it's really only the government that's hiring people like
• 1:10:00
  private companies aren't growing or hiring anything or anybody.
• 1:10:04
  So I don't think that they can keep these rates long enough for
• 1:10:07
  for for too much longer because they know they're gonna they're
• 1:10:10
  gonna kill the economy they're gonna kill their own popularity
• 1:10:12
  they're gonna get they're not gonna get re elected.
• 1:10:15
  And so I I think that my, my cynical view is that something
• 1:10:19
  magical is gonna happen between now and November that's gonna
• 1:10:21
  warrant more money printing or or lower interest rates.
• 1:10:24
  And if they don't lower interest rates they're gonna run deficits
• 1:10:26
  to Infinity to make up for the fact that they haven't lowered
• 1:10:29
  interest rates. But everybody right now is is
• 1:10:32
  doing a basically a big game of chicken with the US government
• 1:10:35
  because all economies are hurting, including Canada,
• 1:10:38
  including other central banks. But if they lower their interest
• 1:10:41
  rates right now, their currencies will get absolutely
• 1:10:43
  squashed. I mean, just look at what's
• 1:10:44
  happening in Japan, right. And so I think that interest
• 1:10:48
  rates are only going to remain high for so long.
• 1:10:51
  I think that if they're able to keep them this high until the
• 1:10:54
  election, they, you know they will.
• 1:10:56
  But I don't think it goes too much further after the election,
• 1:10:58
  no matter who wins that there's going to be a massive lobby on
• 1:11:01
  Jerome and and Janet and everybody just to bring these
• 1:11:03
  things down. So I I don't think that they can
• 1:11:06
  stay this high for long. Love it Mauricio.
• 1:11:10
  There's a chat in. Here comment I think he might
• 1:11:13
  have a little confusing. So he goes, How much is a loan
• 1:11:15
  against one BTC? 40%.
• 1:11:18
  I think you were saying 50 percent, 50%.
• 1:11:20
  So let's, just for argument's sake, it's. 58K Gang SO58K will
• 1:11:24
  be at twenty 26526, five times 258.
• 1:11:29
  I think so yeah. So basically half of the Bitcoin
• 1:11:32
  value, half of the market value of Bitcoin.
• 1:11:34
  And there's a calculator on our website.
• 1:11:35
  If you go to lead N dot AO slash borrow and you put collateral
• 1:11:39
  amount you have and spit out how much you can borrow and they'll
• 1:11:42
  give you all the, you know, the little buttons and options for
• 1:11:44
  you to say like what type of loan you want etcetera.
• 1:11:46
  So there's a there's a yeah, there's a really easy to use
• 1:11:49
  calculator but for in general terms it's half of the value of
• 1:11:52
  the Bitcoin. Love it.
• 1:11:54
  And a further question for people in the chat.
• 1:11:56
  That are interested in this? Is there a minimum to how much
• 1:12:00
  they can loan from you? $500 is our minimum loan amount.
• 1:12:05
  So any any amount over $500 we we can disperse and processing
• 1:12:09
  times are 24 hours to get your loan approved and less than 24
• 1:12:12
  hours typically after that to get the money out to you.
• 1:12:15
  And we disperse in a variety of currencies including you know
• 1:12:19
  stablecoins, U.S. dollars etcetera.
• 1:12:22
  Love it. Love it.
• 1:12:22
  OK. Man.
• 1:12:24
  I don't know, Nico, you might have a better handle of this.
• 1:12:26
  But Mauricio, is there anything else you want to tell the
• 1:12:29
  people? Maybe why they should use it or
• 1:12:32
  whatever any more Psas, contacts, all that good stuff?
• 1:12:37
  No, listen, you know, we offer a few other.
• 1:12:39
  Things that are in addition to loans, you know we offer dual
• 1:12:43
  cryptocurrency notes. We also services that let you
• 1:12:45
  earn interest on on your USC, your stable coins, even your
• 1:12:49
  Bitcoin as well. I I encourage everybody to to,
• 1:12:52
  if you're interested, take a look at us.
• 1:12:54
  Research us. Diligence us, please diligence
• 1:12:56
  us. Contact me if you have any
• 1:12:58
  questions. Myself or my team will be happy
• 1:13:00
  to answer you. And yeah, I mean we're we're,
• 1:13:03
  we're an open book. And just what I recommend to
• 1:13:06
  people is that take the time to understand the risk, to
• 1:13:08
  understand the services and how they work and and then come to
• 1:13:11
  us, you know it it makes it a much better experience for all
• 1:13:14
  of you. And as as as the loans go, to
• 1:13:17
  Nico's point, we want people to come out of their loans with
• 1:13:21
  more Bitcoin that they came into them, right.
• 1:13:23
  So we want everybody to plan and we want everybody to use these
• 1:13:25
  things responsibly. And you know, loans are like a
• 1:13:28
  power tool. If you use it correctly, you can
• 1:13:30
  build a building, it'll help you accelerate how fast you can
• 1:13:32
  build your wealth. If you don't plan accordingly,
• 1:13:35
  you could you could hurt yourself.
• 1:13:36
  So it's just like any other tool.
• 1:13:38
  So we just want people to understand what it can do and to
• 1:13:40
  use it accordingly. Yeah.
• 1:13:43
  And and I I think that's a a Really.
• 1:13:44
  Really. Important point like we have
• 1:13:46
  Mikkel in the chat, like would right now be a good time to take
• 1:13:49
  out a loan. Again, guys, you have to
• 1:13:51
  understand, please look into this.
• 1:13:57
  Essentially what you're doing is you'd be leveraging your Bitcoin
• 1:14:01
  and there are risks to that because of bitcoin's volatility,
• 1:14:05
  right? So for example if you took out
• 1:14:10
  a, you know you put one Bitcoin as collateral, you got let's say
• 1:14:14
  60 roundup, you got $30,000 in cash and the Bitcoin price dumps
• 1:14:22
  50%, well you're gonna have to put two Bitcoin on collateral
• 1:14:26
  now, right? And let's say Bitcoin keeps
• 1:14:28
  dropping after that you might be in a position where you have to
• 1:14:30
  put three Bitcoin in collateral. Now if you have if and and again
• 1:14:33
  I'm I'm just talking in, in Bitcoin's term to simplify it,
• 1:14:36
  if you have, if you're responsible with it, you could
• 1:14:41
  use it in terms of you could use it in order to you know you know
• 1:14:47
  you know invest in a business pay for things.
• 1:14:51
  But there are risks to it, right.
• 1:14:52
  So we want to show you guys all the tools that you guys could
• 1:14:57
  use in your Bitcoin journey. But there there is an associated
• 1:15:01
  risk to this. Obviously the ideal case is
• 1:15:05
  Bitcoin in self custody, but like what Mauricio was saying,
• 1:15:09
  you know, I don't think the world would would work if if
• 1:15:13
  people didn't have access to loans to, you know, build up
• 1:15:17
  their businesses and all that stuff.
• 1:15:21
  I I. Think that's well said.
• 1:15:22
  You know knowledge is power. If you know how this thing works
• 1:15:25
  and you know how to use it to your advantage, you can make a
• 1:15:28
  lot with it. 100 percent, 100% and actually 11 more.
• 1:15:31
  Question in here. For Mauricio to clarify, look at
• 1:15:35
  the trees says how do you pay it back, How do you pay the loans
• 1:15:38
  back? Yeah, no great question.
• 1:15:40
  So you can pay it back with stable.
• 1:15:41
  Coins dollars. If you want to repay us back,
• 1:15:43
  you can also use some of the Bitcoin you have in collateral
• 1:15:47
  to basically get us to deduct what's outstanding and give you
• 1:15:49
  back the Bitcoin that will be a sale of your Bitcoin.
• 1:15:52
  So that may have a taxable event attached to that if you decide
• 1:15:57
  to repay that way. But what happens in a lot of
• 1:15:59
  cases is you know people will take out a loan.
• 1:16:02
  You know, late last year when Bitcoin was near 20 K, Bitcoin
• 1:16:06
  rips to an all time high of 73 K And when when bitcoin's at 73 K,
• 1:16:10
  people either decide to come up with the cash to repay the loan,
• 1:16:12
  bring the Bitcoin back to self custody or they can use a
• 1:16:15
  fraction of the Bitcoin to repay the loan, which will you'll now
• 1:16:19
  need much less Bitcoin to repay the loan than you did at the
• 1:16:21
  beginning because it's 3X. And you basically take off the
• 1:16:24
  delta and then they're OK to take that potential tax because
• 1:16:27
  they have you know other line items in the report that may
• 1:16:30
  offset that. So again it's really a choice
• 1:16:33
  that's how you want to repay it. But we give you all the the the
• 1:16:35
  sort of options possible so you can do this in the most
• 1:16:37
  convenient way for you 100% and and and I wanted to sorry to.
• 1:16:41
  Interrupt you. I think that this is like an
• 1:16:44
  elephant in the room that has to be addressed.
• 1:16:47
  We had a comment from Northern Logistics SCO and one of the
• 1:16:51
  things that I loved talking about with Mauricio in Texas was
• 1:16:56
  the importance of transparency, right.
• 1:16:58
  The importance of like, you know, look, here are the risks,
• 1:17:03
  you know, if you guys are open to the risk, here's here's
• 1:17:06
  everything that's going on. So that's a really good point,
• 1:17:09
  right? Northern Logistics SCOSCO
• 1:17:12
  brought up Celsius and the implosion and hurt a tremendous
• 1:17:16
  amount of people. He's saying, look, I highly
• 1:17:19
  suggest not taking a loan against your Bitcoin.
• 1:17:21
  The safest bet, of course, is taking keeping your Bitcoin in
• 1:17:25
  self custody. Yeah, that's what I was gonna
• 1:17:26
  say. But I would say to you,
• 1:17:28
  Mauricio. Is.
• 1:17:28
  You know what is. The and I don't mean this
• 1:17:31
  question to be insulting whatsoever, but what is the
• 1:17:34
  difference between a platform like I'm gonna say lens bro
• 1:17:38
  because I'm having a troubles having trouble saying the the
• 1:17:40
  Hoddle version of lens Hashtag Nico can't speak.
• 1:17:43
  So what is the difference between Celsius and Lent in
• 1:17:47
  terms of how you guys run your shop?
• 1:17:50
  Oh man, I mean, it's a it's it's a big.
• 1:17:53
  Difference. So first I'll I'll say I'll
• 1:17:55
  start with saying that we actually just refinanced more
• 1:17:57
  than $40 million worth of loans from Celsius clients out of
• 1:18:00
  bankruptcy. They came to us actually because
• 1:18:03
  if they didn't refinance with a third party lender they would be
• 1:18:06
  subject to an even bigger taxable event.
• 1:18:08
  So we were happy to step up and and bring them over and then you
• 1:18:11
  know we have a great new group of clients that that have you
• 1:18:15
  know and and some really significant volume that we
• 1:18:19
  picked up by by doing so. But Celsius and Leaden could not
• 1:18:22
  be more different and one of the one of the one of the challenges
• 1:18:25
  was the fact that they would dress themselves and act like
• 1:18:27
  they were doing all the things that we were doing.
• 1:18:29
  But in the back end they were doing none of it.
• 1:18:31
  So you know we at Leaden are very focused.
• 1:18:35
  We've only had like we just added support for two more
• 1:18:37
  assets last year. So at Leaden today we support
• 1:18:40
  Bitcoin, USCC, Tether and Ethereum.
• 1:18:43
  And Tether and Ethereum actually came earlier this year.
• 1:18:46
  It's like for the longest time we've been Bitcoin only and all
• 1:18:49
  the assets that I just quoted you are the deepest and most
• 1:18:52
  liquid assets in the industry. And so there's always demand for
• 1:18:55
  these assets. A common thread amongst all the
• 1:18:57
  companies that failed where that they all supported you know
• 1:19:00
  hundreds of assets and many had their own native tokens which
• 1:19:03
  allows which a the hundreds of assets creates a massive risk
• 1:19:07
  because you're now you now have a lending desk that has to
• 1:19:10
  support a bunch of things that have no demand and no depth and
• 1:19:13
  no liquidity and that makes you take risks because you'll
• 1:19:17
  convert you'll swap out of that Shiba Inu that nobody wants for
• 1:19:20
  some Bitcoin but then you have to get somebody back that Shiba
• 1:19:23
  Inu and that creates an issue because you're not hedging that.
• 1:19:26
  So there were there were there were mismatches of assets and
• 1:19:29
  liabilities there were mismatches of term.
• 1:19:31
  You know people were depositing open term dollars and Celsius
• 1:19:34
  was investing that in multi year mining projects that have five
• 1:19:38
  and six year backs. Nico you know this.
• 1:19:40
  So when people showed up to get their dollars back of course you
• 1:19:42
  couldn't liquidate A mining facility to give back to
• 1:19:45
  deposits. So they went and solved it.
• 1:19:46
  So there was a plethora of errors that they did wrong and
• 1:19:52
  and risk management that was never ever there.
• 1:19:55
  They you know famously Celsius was participating in the Terra
• 1:19:58
  Luna scheme. So when that started falling,
• 1:20:00
  they started yanking assets and everybody could see it on chain.
• 1:20:03
  And then we never deployed our client assets into defect to
• 1:20:06
  generate yields. So we were never a part of that.
• 1:20:09
  We started doing a proof of reserves back in 2021 when
• 1:20:12
  people were doing when people were adding COP tokens and and
• 1:20:16
  you know DEFY tokens we were doing account we were building
• 1:20:18
  an accounting proof of reserves into our model.
• 1:20:21
  And so I think again letting in Celsius could not be more
• 1:20:24
  different. A lot of these differences
• 1:20:26
  you're fine in the terms and conditions which are things that
• 1:20:29
  people unfortunately don't often read and to and to get to the
• 1:20:33
  real difference you have to spend the time to come and
• 1:20:35
  diligence as which again and and and and and the zero interest
• 1:20:38
  rate environment was something that happened rarely so and
• 1:20:41
  people would just get I had clients come to me and say you
• 1:20:44
  know they were withdrawing U.S. dollars and taking them to
• 1:20:47
  Celsius because Celsius was offering a 12% year when that it
• 1:20:49
  was paying. I think it was 8.
• 1:20:51
  And they're saying, how can you know I'm going to take this to
• 1:20:52
  Celsius because they're paying 12 and I would say to them, how
• 1:20:55
  are they paying 12? Like I can tell you where my 8
• 1:20:58
  comes from. You give it to me at 8:00, I
• 1:20:59
  lend it to bitcoiners. I don't want to sell their
• 1:21:01
  Bitcoin for 10. That 2% spread is how I make
• 1:21:03
  money. That's how I pay my 8.
• 1:21:05
  How do they pay 12 if they are lending at 0?
• 1:21:08
  And the answer was, you know all sorts of gimmicks and and things
• 1:21:12
  that they wouldn't tell you, but the fact is that the businesses,
• 1:21:16
  the businesses, the underlying businesses could not have been
• 1:21:18
  more different. And and again, I welcome people
• 1:21:21
  to, you know, Fact Check everything I'm saying and and
• 1:21:25
  come with your questions to us to to understand the risks that
• 1:21:28
  that that you might be taking by facing us.
• 1:21:31
  But yeah, the the two companies could not have been more
• 1:21:33
  different 100% and I'm really glad that you addressed that
• 1:21:36
  and. I'm really glad that the
• 1:21:37
  audience asked that question as well, because, you know, that
• 1:21:41
  was a a huge debacle. Anyways, thank you Merisa for
• 1:21:45
  coming on the show today. Wait, wait, wait, Let's get
• 1:21:47
  Mary. So one last two sides.
• 1:21:48
  What's the last message you? Want to give to the audience?
• 1:21:50
  It could be about letting. It could be about Bitcoin.
• 1:21:52
  It could be about life. What's the last advice you want
• 1:21:55
  to give to the people out there? Don't sell your Bitcoin.
• 1:21:57
  That's. It's very simple.
• 1:22:01
  Just don't sell your Bitcoin. Don't, don't.
• 1:22:06
  Don't don't price your net worth in dollar terms.
• 1:22:10
  Price your net worth in Bitcoin terms.
• 1:22:11
  If you have more Bitcoin than the day before, then you're
• 1:22:14
  doing it right. If you have less than, you're
• 1:22:16
  doing it wrong. Anyways guys, thank you so much
• 1:22:19
  for tuning into the show today. I'm your host Nico's my
• 1:22:21
  legendary Co host Optimus Fields.
• 1:22:23
  They're a very special guest from lend, LEND, from lend.
• 1:22:30
  Mauricio, thank you so much for, for coming on the show today.
• 1:22:33
  You know, talking about talking about the platform, what you
• 1:22:36
  guys are doing, which I think it plays an incredibly important
• 1:22:38
  role in the ecosystem. Of course, guys, watch your risk
• 1:22:42
  and appreciate you coming on the show.
• 1:22:44
  Thanks guys. Cheers guys if you enjoyed the
• 1:22:47
  show. Whoa, what happened there, Opti?
• 1:22:49
  All right, all right, guys. If you enjoyed the show, you
• 1:22:51
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• 1:22:52
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• 1:22:54
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• 1:22:56
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• 1:22:58
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• 1:23:03
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• 1:23:06
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• 1:23:10
  brought. To You by bitcoinwell.com on a
• 1:23:13
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