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Swaggy Tigs Take Care Of Business · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Your Territory is part
0:09
Speaker 1: of the Foul Territory Network, a Tiger's podcast. I'm here
0:12
Speaker 1: zactly with me as always a man who's more with
0:14
Speaker 1: than Bobby Witt, but not as much wit as Bobby
0:18
Speaker 1: Wit Junior.
0:20
Speaker 2: How you doing doing good?
0:21
Speaker 1: King?
0:23
Speaker 2: You know, Bobby Witt some of a major leaguer right,
0:26
Speaker 2: grew up pretty wealthy, you know, one of the greatest
0:29
Speaker 2: athletes in baseball are in pro sports. Like, how fast
0:34
Speaker 2: he is? This guy looks like he just crawled out
0:36
Speaker 2: of the woods or something. It's kind of amazing.
0:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he's he's a joy to watch. He's
0:41
Speaker 1: a joy to watch and uh and he's he's a
0:44
Speaker 1: guy that even if you're let me just put it
0:47
Speaker 1: like this, if you have the DraftKings app and you
0:49
Speaker 1: have to put a bet on a guy on the
0:52
Speaker 1: other team, you feel pretty comfortable doing something with Bobby
0:55
Speaker 1: Witt because normally he's going to do something in the game.
0:58
Speaker 1: And we're recording this Monday morning after the Tigers took
1:02
Speaker 1: two of three from Kansas City and obviously swept Houston
1:05
Speaker 1: earlier in the week, and I kind of wanted to
1:08
Speaker 1: to start with this being like, actually, it was a
1:12
Speaker 1: relatively crucial week, Like you don't want to overhype stuff.
1:15
Speaker 1: It is still August, you know, but Houston's a team
1:18
Speaker 1: that you're fighting with for that buye and I think
1:21
Speaker 1: that bye is crucial. We've talked about it, and and
1:24
Speaker 1: they're still hungry and they have a lot to play
1:25
Speaker 1: for in their division, so it's not like they have
1:27
Speaker 1: the same level of comfort as the Tigers. And then
1:30
Speaker 1: Kansas City is the team that's hot, that is a
1:32
Speaker 1: planted Cleveland as a number two team. They're obviously in
1:34
Speaker 1: the in the in the wildcard discussion as well, but look,
1:38
Speaker 1: anything can happen, as we saw with the twenty four
1:40
Speaker 1: tig So was this was a week that the Tigers
1:44
Speaker 1: I think had to like it weren't gonna be over,
1:47
Speaker 1: but kind of had to take care of business, put
1:49
Speaker 1: a stranglehold on the division, and then earlier kind of
1:53
Speaker 1: separate themselves a little bit from the Houston Astros. And
1:57
Speaker 1: you know, like I said, two hungry teams, two teams
1:59
Speaker 1: that you know or in either we're playing good ball
2:02
Speaker 1: or in desperate need to play good ball. And then
2:03
Speaker 1: Tigers kind of took it to him in a variety
2:06
Speaker 1: of ways. So probably as important a week as the
2:09
Speaker 1: Tigers that had this season, and they took care of business.
2:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's you can look at the standings.
2:17
Speaker 2: The Tigers lead this division now by ten and a
2:19
Speaker 2: half games, which is kind of ridiculous. They are back
2:23
Speaker 2: to a double digit game lead, though there is plenty
2:26
Speaker 2: of cushion. You can't take that for granted. But I
2:29
Speaker 2: am I'm still viewing, like everything through the lens of
2:33
Speaker 2: can this team win the World Series? And I think
2:37
Speaker 2: that leads us naturally to the bullpen, probably this team's
2:41
Speaker 2: biggest vulnerability, biggest weakness going into the second half. It
2:46
Speaker 2: has been undoubtedly better in August, but I'm not sure
2:52
Speaker 2: what to make of it. At the same time, Tigers
2:55
Speaker 2: relievers in August have a two nine to three e
2:58
Speaker 2: er that is the third best in baseball. Their era
3:02
Speaker 2: entering the month had been over four for the season.
3:06
Speaker 2: But then you, as we talked about last episode, this
3:10
Speaker 2: is a good thing, but a lot of that I
3:12
Speaker 2: think had been the product of having starters going deeper
3:15
Speaker 2: in games, of leaning a lot on Kyle Finnegan, who
3:18
Speaker 2: has been very good and will vest not having to
3:21
Speaker 2: lean on your non leverage guys so much. We hadn't
3:25
Speaker 2: seen Tommy Kinley for nine days until yesterday. If you
3:29
Speaker 2: were scoreless inning, it was good to see. We hadn't
3:31
Speaker 2: seen Rafael Montero in a while. He the eye test
3:35
Speaker 2: remains rough, doesn't throw a lot of strikes, but he
3:37
Speaker 2: got out of there unscathed. But you dig into some
3:41
Speaker 2: of the metrics on these relievers, Karen there, Pip is
3:45
Speaker 2: five point oh eight, which is the fourth worst in baseball.
3:49
Speaker 2: Everyone who my mentor tr Sullivan said, I know more
3:53
Speaker 2: about baseball than anyone in this press box, and I
3:55
Speaker 2: don't give you know what about Pip. So if you
3:58
Speaker 2: don't care about Pip, that's fit. About what is fit?
4:00
Speaker 2: It looks at strikeout rate, walk rate, home run rate
4:04
Speaker 2: and basically assumes if you have average luck on balls
4:07
Speaker 2: in play, kind of here's what your er would be.
4:11
Speaker 2: The Tigers have had very good luck on balls and play.
4:17
Speaker 2: They're against their bullpen. The babbitt this month is two
4:20
Speaker 2: to four. In theory, you can't sustain that. We also
4:24
Speaker 2: saw the Tigers sustain like a two twenty ish babbit
4:28
Speaker 2: for the final two months of last season. Now they're
4:31
Speaker 2: throwing more sinkers than anyone getting a ton of balls
4:33
Speaker 2: on the ground last year. They're not necessarily doing that
4:36
Speaker 2: at the same rate now, So what's going on. I
4:39
Speaker 2: don't know how much of it is good luck. I'm
4:40
Speaker 2: not sure I can tell you. Saturday, Tyler Holton enters
4:45
Speaker 2: gets a five four to three double play ball to
4:47
Speaker 2: escape a big jam. Sunday Tyler Holton inners similar groundball
4:51
Speaker 2: to third, A little harder hit, bounces into the outfield,
4:54
Speaker 2: two runs score. Sometimes that's just how baseball works. A
4:58
Speaker 2: little correction like that was probably coming. Is this bullpen
5:01
Speaker 2: good like? I don't know. Is it better? I don't know.
5:05
Speaker 2: Kyle Finnigan's been great. That babbitt against him is one hundred.
5:09
Speaker 2: Eventually some hits are gonna fall against Kyle Finnigan. So
5:14
Speaker 2: maybe your best recipe is to have your starters keep shoving,
5:16
Speaker 2: which maybe leads us to a Jack Flaherty discussion. Or
5:19
Speaker 2: we can keep the makeup of this pitching staff, which
5:22
Speaker 2: is pretty fascinating too.
5:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like, I guess I'm kinda I want to
5:30
Speaker 1: explore that in somewhat of a different way. So you've
5:34
Speaker 1: constantly brought up and I give you credit for it,
5:37
Speaker 1: because that is the standard of which they're playing and
5:40
Speaker 1: it should be the goal. And that was the conversation
5:42
Speaker 1: of the trade deadline. It was that, like, Candice, team
5:45
Speaker 1: win the World Series? You have this record? Are you
5:48
Speaker 1: going for a World Series in twenty twenty five? And
5:51
Speaker 1: the first thing that you and everybody else goes to
5:55
Speaker 1: is is bullpen. Now I'm curious for this seci Vic
6:00
Speaker 1: Tiger's team when your mind goes from can they win
6:03
Speaker 1: a World Series? To what you know, think about the bullpen?
6:07
Speaker 1: What's the percentage of that being a reflection of the
6:11
Speaker 1: team as a whole with some of the other pieces.
6:13
Speaker 1: So like they're hitting ability, they're starting pitching ability on
6:16
Speaker 1: the top bend, and you know what, we've seen some
6:18
Speaker 1: struggles in the bullpen or just general bullpens matter so
6:23
Speaker 1: much in postseason. So what I'm basically what I'm getting
6:26
Speaker 1: at is do you is it more of a reflection
6:29
Speaker 1: of you feeling comfortable with like the hitting profiles and
6:33
Speaker 1: and and you know the way that AJ uses like
6:36
Speaker 1: pinch hitters and all that stuff, and some and and
6:38
Speaker 1: the school aspect of it. Mys we know myze and
6:42
Speaker 1: and and all that stuff, or is it just the
6:46
Speaker 1: postseason's bullpen. It doesn't even matter about the other stuff.
6:48
Speaker 1: So bring me into your brain for a second.
6:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there are two concerns when we
6:55
Speaker 2: talk about playoff baseball. It's that the lineup strikes out
6:57
Speaker 2: a lot and the bullpen doesn't strike people out. I
7:01
Speaker 2: think it's that simple. There is a world where I
7:04
Speaker 2: have some concern about the lineup facing elite level pitching
7:07
Speaker 2: in the playoffs, but generally we know this is a
7:11
Speaker 2: pretty good offense. We know they run the base as well,
7:14
Speaker 2: like they've done a good job giving themselves chances. I
7:18
Speaker 2: think you're gonna go into the playoffs and you're gonna
7:20
Speaker 2: have some hitters who are hot, and you're gonna have
7:22
Speaker 2: a few guys who are cold, and any way you
7:25
Speaker 2: cut it, that's like probably how it's gonna be. You know,
7:29
Speaker 2: it feels a little more projectible maybe in terms of
7:32
Speaker 2: what you're gonna get from your lineup in the playoffs.
7:34
Speaker 2: I mean it's a short sample, so like nothing's projectable.
7:37
Speaker 2: But that's how I feel about it, Like you kind
7:39
Speaker 2: of know that's how it's gonna be, and you gotta
7:43
Speaker 2: hope that maybe the guys who are clicking are Riley
7:45
Speaker 2: Green or Kerry Carpenter or guys who can take the
7:48
Speaker 2: ball out of the ballpark and flip the scoreboard, and
7:52
Speaker 2: the bullpen seems more like the the skill Like the
7:57
Speaker 2: skill issue is more important, the depth becomes a lot
8:00
Speaker 2: more important, and yes, in the playoffs there's heightened emphasis
8:04
Speaker 2: on the bullpen. Anyway, relievers have never been used more
8:07
Speaker 2: often in the postseason than they are now. We know
8:11
Speaker 2: it can be dangerous to see the same relievers multiple
8:14
Speaker 2: times in a postseason series. That's where it gets to
8:16
Speaker 2: the depth. I think you can feel pretty good about
8:18
Speaker 2: Kyle Finnigan and Will Vest, but then it's like, well,
8:21
Speaker 2: Finnigan's and then he's missing a little more bats, throwing
8:24
Speaker 2: the splitter more, but he's not a huge strikeout guy.
8:28
Speaker 2: I kind of wish he had like a third real
8:30
Speaker 2: impact reliever, and I don't know that you can say
8:33
Speaker 2: you have that right now. It's fear of this Paul
8:35
Speaker 2: Seawald trade. Man. I'm really interested to see what they
8:38
Speaker 2: get out of that. That could be an X factor
8:41
Speaker 2: if he's able to come off the il and pitch
8:43
Speaker 2: like a Paul Seawald of a couple of years ago,
8:47
Speaker 2: or if he's not like that. I have a hunch
8:51
Speaker 2: that could end up being a more important move than
8:54
Speaker 2: we gave it credit for at the time. No, I
8:58
Speaker 2: don't know if that fully. And as the question like
9:01
Speaker 2: can you fix a Raffia Montero or something, I just
9:05
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna have to have more than two
9:07
Speaker 2: guys you can really trust, and ideally some guys who
9:10
Speaker 2: can get strikeouts, because I don't know. Again, I'm not
9:12
Speaker 2: saying the Tigers can't do this, but I'm saying, as
9:15
Speaker 2: it stands right now, they're the entire fate of this
9:18
Speaker 2: season might come down to, like does that groundball to
9:21
Speaker 2: third base get fielded and turned for a double player
9:24
Speaker 2: or not.
9:25
Speaker 1: Well, we saw the debut of Drew Somers and uh
9:30
Speaker 1: and and and it's an and it's a neat story,
9:32
Speaker 1: and you know, congratulations on you know, making making your debut.
9:37
Speaker 1: But like he is just another it sounds disrespectful. I
9:42
Speaker 1: promise I don't mean to be the spel. He's kind
9:44
Speaker 1: of like another guy in this wave of what we've
9:47
Speaker 1: experienced with like the back end of that bullpen being
9:50
Speaker 1: you know, up and down, up and down. Uh. And
9:54
Speaker 1: we sit here August twenty fifth, we do we have
9:57
Speaker 1: another month plus of this, and then some like like
10:00
Speaker 1: this is the way moving forward?
10:01
Speaker 2: Yeah we do, Yeah, this is the strategy. This is
10:04
Speaker 2: the strategury here. Yeah, it's getting labeled pitching chaos two
10:09
Speaker 2: point zero. It's not as heightens, it's not as pronounced
10:11
Speaker 2: as like the stuff we saw down the stretch last year.
10:14
Speaker 2: But it's another way of the Tigers being a little
10:16
Speaker 2: bit outside the box. I think I've said this before too,
10:19
Speaker 2: like sort of they've done this all year, it just
10:22
Speaker 2: didn't feel as important in terms of making transactions on
10:26
Speaker 2: a series by series basis. They're doing that with a
10:28
Speaker 2: little more frequency now. They brought Drew Summers because they
10:32
Speaker 2: needed a lefty who was their best lefty in the minors,
10:35
Speaker 2: not in the option cycle like Bailey Horns. Drew Summers
10:38
Speaker 2: Sky's pitched really well, made a name for himself this year.
10:42
Speaker 2: Now he's probably gonna stick around, I think for a
10:46
Speaker 2: couple more series. You face the A's and then you
10:49
Speaker 2: face the Royals again. You're you're gonna want that lefty arm.
10:52
Speaker 2: But we already know the list of guys still knocking
10:55
Speaker 2: on the door. Jose Orkeaty could be near in a
10:57
Speaker 2: return you're hoping to have you all sometime in September.
11:02
Speaker 2: I don't know if you're ever gonna see Alex Cobb,
11:04
Speaker 2: but if you really want to force that, you know
11:06
Speaker 2: it may maybe there's a chance you have some guys
11:10
Speaker 2: already kind of in line, and then it's like, well,
11:12
Speaker 2: Alex Lang, he's in the option cycle right now, but
11:15
Speaker 2: you want to hate seeing him again, Like we are
11:19
Speaker 2: going to keep seeing some of these different arms Starr,
11:21
Speaker 2: your Gibson Long is down there. They are going to
11:24
Speaker 2: keep doing this on a series by series, need by
11:28
Speaker 2: need basis. You're just filtering a lot of guys in
11:31
Speaker 2: and out of the bullpen. You're mixing and matching. You're
11:33
Speaker 2: using the full capability of not just your twenty six
11:35
Speaker 2: man roster, not just your forty man roster, but the
11:39
Speaker 2: whole organization. It's kind of squeeze every every ounce, you know,
11:44
Speaker 2: a juice you can out of this orange here. And
11:46
Speaker 2: then we're seeing aj Hinch manage the bullpen as aggressively
11:50
Speaker 2: as he has all year. Again, not necessarily new, but
11:54
Speaker 2: it just feels a little more like the dials turned
11:56
Speaker 2: up on everything a little bit right now.
11:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good way to put it, And you know,
12:00
Speaker 1: I was just I was just looking this up. I mean,
12:02
Speaker 1: we have we're talking about pitching chaos, We're talking about
12:05
Speaker 1: all these moves. You know, we haven't seen Peter Montero
12:10
Speaker 1: since July twenty fifth.
12:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, Cater seems to be like out of the picture,
12:16
Speaker 2: which is it's interesting sometimes with this organization, seems to
12:19
Speaker 2: lose interesting guys, like happened with Matt Manning. Like a
12:24
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. Cater went from being a big
12:26
Speaker 2: part of everything they were doing, building in spots, starts,
12:29
Speaker 2: bullpen days to like out of sight, out of mind,
12:34
Speaker 2: And with the off days coming up, I'm not sure
12:36
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a big need for him as a
12:38
Speaker 2: starter anytime soon. I guess knock on wood that no
12:41
Speaker 2: one gets injured. But even then you have or Katie,
12:44
Speaker 2: and seems like Cobb's definitely going to be in the
12:47
Speaker 2: bullpen if and when he ever returns. But yeah, yeah,
12:51
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting kind of the fall off of
12:53
Speaker 2: Cater Montero. He wasn't always great, but he showed you
12:55
Speaker 2: some interesting things the Tigers. I guess you got to
12:58
Speaker 2: be cognizant of his options. Sure how many times he
13:01
Speaker 2: can be optioned still probably one or two more times,
13:04
Speaker 2: though I know it's an interesting one.
13:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. All right. We are going to take
13:11
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14:22
Speaker 1: All right, coming back here. You know, we had a
14:25
Speaker 1: week of book ends with Jack flaherty, and boy did
14:29
Speaker 1: we get variants. Monday against Houston seven innings, three hits,
14:36
Speaker 1: zero runs, nine strikeouts. Sunday against Kansas City, same mound,
14:42
Speaker 1: by the way, same mound, same ballpark, all that stuff.
14:45
Speaker 1: Five innings, ten hits, eight runs and three and by
14:51
Speaker 1: the way, all earned and three strikeouts. So you talked
14:55
Speaker 1: a lot about comfort level and about like you know,
14:59
Speaker 1: and abo use of pitchers. Starter's got to go deep.
15:03
Speaker 1: We know that flerity can, but it becomes a confidence
15:07
Speaker 1: level whether he will and that's probably and and and
15:10
Speaker 1: that's and That's where I'm at.
15:17
Speaker 2: Uh, Like we've been talking about all year. Not sure
15:20
Speaker 2: what to make of Jack Flaherty. I do think it's
15:21
Speaker 2: one of the more important storylines here in August, though,
15:24
Speaker 2: because Flerty's had a couple outings lately where you've been like, oh, okay,
15:29
Speaker 2: this is this is the real Jack Flaherty. Maybe you
15:31
Speaker 2: can feel good about this guy starting a game for
15:34
Speaker 2: you in the playoffs, right, and then it's still like, man,
15:38
Speaker 2: this guy has been really prone to giving up a
15:41
Speaker 2: sixth spot or an eight spot, and it's it's hard
15:45
Speaker 2: to know what to make of it. I just my
15:47
Speaker 2: personal theory will come back to like this stuff just
15:50
Speaker 2: isn't prime enough anymore. It puts such a huge emphasis
15:54
Speaker 2: on his command, and you're not always going to be
15:57
Speaker 2: able to have elite command. Now it's worth he has
16:00
Speaker 2: run into some bad luck throughout the year. His talking
16:03
Speaker 2: about PIP. His FIP in the second half is very good.
16:07
Speaker 2: My computers being slow, so I don't have the number
16:09
Speaker 2: off the top of my head. But at least entering
16:12
Speaker 2: his last outing, it was really good. Right, he had
16:15
Speaker 2: been pitching good baseball, been the victim of a little
16:17
Speaker 2: bit of bad luck. But then it's like that flight
16:21
Speaker 2: ball rate's worth noting. I believe it's the highest of
16:23
Speaker 2: his career. And why did the Tigers most of the
16:27
Speaker 2: time prefer groundball pitchers like kind of goes back to PIP.
16:32
Speaker 2: A ball on the ground is more likely to be
16:33
Speaker 2: coming out. It's definitely more likely to be a base
16:38
Speaker 2: hit rather than an extra base hit. You start getting
16:40
Speaker 2: the ball in the air, you start talking about damage.
16:42
Speaker 2: Flirty at times this year has been prone to giving
16:45
Speaker 2: up hard contact doesn't totally show up, like the average
16:49
Speaker 2: exit velocity against him's only eighty nine miles an hour,
16:53
Speaker 2: But there's been times where there's been loud contact plus
16:56
Speaker 2: ball in the air. I think that's been a recipe
16:59
Speaker 2: for of these, you know, some of these blow up
17:01
Speaker 2: outings that we've seen.
17:04
Speaker 1: If I believe I have the number correct, it's a
17:06
Speaker 1: three eight eight fip.
17:08
Speaker 2: Well, that went up big time in one outing. If
17:10
Speaker 2: if that's right, is that second half.
17:13
Speaker 1: Just for the season, just for a seconds, it.
17:16
Speaker 2: Was still a lot better than his h about four
17:18
Speaker 2: run better.
17:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was three two with the Tiger three one two,
17:22
Speaker 1: I should say with the with the Tigers last year. Uh,
17:25
Speaker 1: but yeah, I'm glad you hit on the fly. He's
17:28
Speaker 1: seventh I believe in uh in baseball, in uh in
17:32
Speaker 1: in flyball, right, and he gets and he gets hit hard,
17:36
Speaker 1: Like it's just not a it's just not a good
17:38
Speaker 1: combination uh for flairity there and like it's he he
17:43
Speaker 1: has oddly become like like I've said this before, where
17:48
Speaker 1: he a lot of these struggles that he's had this
17:50
Speaker 1: year and even like the successes of the highs and
17:53
Speaker 1: lows element kind of reminds me of a young pitcher
17:56
Speaker 1: trying to figure himself out. But the thing is, he's
17:59
Speaker 1: almost thirty, he's been in the big leagues a long time,
18:02
Speaker 1: and and and he's been pretty feast or famine this season.
18:06
Speaker 1: And if if it's game two of like a DS
18:10
Speaker 1: or a wild Card or a CS or a World Series,
18:13
Speaker 1: and you're gonna throw out a guy with a eighty
18:15
Speaker 1: six e R plus, you know, like it I it's tough.
18:21
Speaker 1: It's a tough one. But he does have the experience.
18:23
Speaker 1: How much does that matter? All this intangible stuff? I
18:26
Speaker 1: mean this, it was a weird game because he gave
18:28
Speaker 1: up the spot there and then the Tigers make a
18:31
Speaker 1: comeback and they obviously end up losing. Like Jack's veteran
18:36
Speaker 1: Jack knows like that. These are kind of games in
18:39
Speaker 1: general that you don't want to squash when your offense
18:42
Speaker 1: does that. Like, what's he like after after? What was
18:46
Speaker 1: he like after both of these games? Actually the one
18:48
Speaker 1: that was really good in the one where not so good.
18:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, like I would say, Jack kind of stays Jack.
18:54
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think you see a ton of
18:57
Speaker 2: variants in his his emotional state, at least talking to
18:59
Speaker 2: the media. You know, it's pretty comic, but as you
19:04
Speaker 2: would expect, Like I think he felt good after a
19:06
Speaker 2: good outing and more frustrated after a bad outing. Like,
19:10
Speaker 2: I don't think there's really a ton to go into
19:13
Speaker 2: their just sort of like to give him credit in
19:17
Speaker 2: a way, even after yesterday, his FIP is still two
19:21
Speaker 2: point four to seven in the second half. That's the
19:24
Speaker 2: fourth best in baseball. But if you want to further
19:28
Speaker 2: be confused by the Jack Flaherty experience, FIP three point
19:32
Speaker 2: five to three, so not as good. What's the difference there? Basically,
19:36
Speaker 2: instead of using home runs allowed, it looked at assumes
19:39
Speaker 2: an average home run rate, So how many home runs
19:44
Speaker 2: per every fly ball? You know, are you are you
19:48
Speaker 2: giving up that's higher because he's given up a lot
19:51
Speaker 2: of fly balls, and then the actual era is way higher.
19:54
Speaker 2: Look at the other guys that he has a similar FIP, Like,
19:56
Speaker 2: it's not in the same stratosphere. So there has been
20:00
Speaker 2: an element of bad luck. He's still striking people out,
20:03
Speaker 2: which you have to like. But I think it's I
20:07
Speaker 2: think it ultimately is the ball in the air that
20:09
Speaker 2: that has been getting them in trouble.
20:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and again, like what you were talking about
20:15
Speaker 1: with the Tigers offense at the beginning of this podcast
20:18
Speaker 1: is like you hope a couple of guys are hot
20:19
Speaker 1: in the postseason, and you know, and it's like your
20:21
Speaker 1: home run hitters. Everybody else is hoping that too. And
20:25
Speaker 1: then and so when they go up against Clarity, what's
20:28
Speaker 1: the game plan going to be. It's not gonna it's
20:30
Speaker 1: not gonna be drag bunts, you know, like you're gonna
20:34
Speaker 1: try to take advantage of that hard hit rate if
20:36
Speaker 1: you're the other team. So, uh, this will probably even
20:41
Speaker 1: out to something more reasonable by the time that we
20:45
Speaker 1: get to postseason play all year.
20:47
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, but look at Jack
20:52
Speaker 2: Flarity's postseason last year. Karen hit a couple of great
20:55
Speaker 2: outings and he has a couple horrible outings. Maybe that's
21:00
Speaker 2: what this is gonna expect. Maybe that's maybe maybe that
21:05
Speaker 2: was part of the strategy when the time you just
21:06
Speaker 2: got Chris Paddock. Maybe it was just like, well, he's
21:09
Speaker 2: probably gonna give us four great outings and four bad outings,
21:13
Speaker 2: but we're gonna bank on four of those. Like that's
21:15
Speaker 2: gonna be four games we can win. Like, I don't know,
21:19
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's part of the strategy, but
21:20
Speaker 2: it's kind of interesting to think about, and at least
21:23
Speaker 2: this year it's kind of been part of the Jack
21:24
Speaker 2: Flaherty profile.
21:26
Speaker 1: Well. Speaking of Paddock, was was this weekend like his
21:30
Speaker 1: baptism into a J. Hinchet?
21:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think it was. I think it was.
21:37
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can be mad after leaving
21:40
Speaker 2: the game after five innings, after like the amount of
21:42
Speaker 2: loud contact you were giving up, Like I was watching that,
21:46
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, get him out of here,
21:48
Speaker 2: get him out of here. Versus Flarity, who was allowed
21:51
Speaker 2: to pitch into the sixth despite also not looking good.
21:55
Speaker 2: I guess just trying to save the pin. The pin
21:57
Speaker 2: wasn't that tax though the game doesn't matter enough, right,
22:02
Speaker 2: now to litigate it. But I didn't love the decision
22:05
Speaker 2: to leave Flerry out there for as long as he
22:07
Speaker 2: was left out there, And I think it speaks to
22:09
Speaker 2: a lack of confidence in your second and third tier
22:12
Speaker 2: bullpen arms. But yeah, Paddock, you know, but I liked
22:16
Speaker 2: what he said after the game. He was like, yeah,
22:18
Speaker 2: I was a little frustrated coming out of the game.
22:21
Speaker 2: I went into the tunnel, took a deep breath. Okay,
22:24
Speaker 2: we have the lead, we have a good bullpen. Maybe
22:27
Speaker 2: you do, maybe, don't you know? And I respect AJ's decision,
22:31
Speaker 2: like I trust his decision. Seems like they talked about
22:34
Speaker 2: it a little bit. Seems like it was something that
22:35
Speaker 2: was handled at least from what I can tell, really
22:39
Speaker 2: professionally on all sides. Maybe something that builds a little trust,
22:42
Speaker 2: builds a little bit of a relationship going forward. But yeah,
22:45
Speaker 2: certainly in an indoctrination to how all this works in Detroit.
22:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I imagine I've never seen this, you know,
22:54
Speaker 1: with my own eyes, but I imagine that if a player,
22:57
Speaker 1: particularly a pitcher, wants to like have a discussion with
23:01
Speaker 1: AJ for the why, he'll tell you the why.
23:05
Speaker 2: Like oh yeah, oh yeah, you may not like the why,
23:09
Speaker 2: but he'll give it to you.
23:11
Speaker 1: He's gonna he's gonna let you know what the what
23:13
Speaker 1: the why is and it's kind of up to you
23:15
Speaker 1: on how you handle it.
23:17
Speaker 2: So I think generally players, like we've talked about it,
23:20
Speaker 2: I think with Austin Jackson here before, Like one thing
23:23
Speaker 2: I always hear from players like their least favorite thing
23:26
Speaker 2: is to is to kind of not know why be told, hey,
23:30
Speaker 2: you did great, but we took you out, or hey,
23:32
Speaker 2: you're doing great, but we're sending you down. Like that's
23:35
Speaker 2: not a good feeling. That leaves you frustrated, that leaves
23:38
Speaker 2: you puzzled. And if someone lays it out to you
23:42
Speaker 2: why you're going down because you don't throw first pitch strikes,
23:46
Speaker 2: or why you're getting pulled from this game because why
23:49
Speaker 2: would we have you go a third time through the disorder?
23:52
Speaker 2: Like you may not like it, but at least it
23:54
Speaker 2: makes sense. At least it gives you a little something
23:56
Speaker 2: to like aim for next time.
23:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, we're gonna keep with the pitching theme and
24:03
Speaker 1: discuss tonight's starter, Trek Schouble and his routine. But first
24:08
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors krats.
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25:09
Speaker 1: It all right, coming back here? You know we we've heard,
25:17
Speaker 1: we know Tark School is a workhorse. We've read stories
25:20
Speaker 1: about like, you know, his routine and you know, working
25:23
Speaker 1: out and then uh, it was on a recent national
25:27
Speaker 1: broadcast they talked about his desire to be like the
25:29
Speaker 1: a two hundred ning guy. And and so I love
25:33
Speaker 1: that you wrote this story. And I'll just read the
25:35
Speaker 1: headline and and kind of have you dive into like, uh,
25:38
Speaker 1: you know the process for us, But how how Tiger's
25:42
Speaker 1: Tech School is managing his routine as the endings pile up?
25:46
Speaker 1: And uh, we know School is a thoughtful guy. We
25:49
Speaker 1: know that the Tigers take this stuff very seriously. That's
25:53
Speaker 1: kind of why we're talking about it in a way. Uh,
25:56
Speaker 1: but but schoobl like it's kind of amy a little
26:00
Speaker 1: bit Schooble intense wants to go, go go, but then
26:03
Speaker 1: he's having to be kind of the opposite of like
26:06
Speaker 1: that sort of like machismo meat head mentality in order
26:10
Speaker 1: to take care of his body. So really fascinating stuff.
26:13
Speaker 1: How'd you go about reporting this?
26:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I was naturally interested how
26:20
Speaker 2: Trek was just managing things based when the anecdote he
26:23
Speaker 2: shared at the end of last year, which is that
26:26
Speaker 2: last year after the All Star break, he went to
26:28
Speaker 2: the Tigers training staff and he's basically like, hey, I like,
26:32
Speaker 2: I'm not recovering as well after starts, I'm not feeling
26:34
Speaker 2: good as as good physically, Like, what what can we do?
26:39
Speaker 2: And they really revamped his routine. I had someone in
26:42
Speaker 2: the league tell me like that he wasn't even throwing
26:46
Speaker 2: bullpens in the second half. I asked Rek about that.
26:48
Speaker 2: He said, I always liked to touch the mound, even
26:51
Speaker 2: if it's for as little as five pitches. So it
26:53
Speaker 2: sounds like sometimes rather than throwing a full you know,
26:56
Speaker 2: nor mobile hens probably about thirty pitches, he'll get on there,
26:59
Speaker 2: throw five pitches, say hey, I'm good. He explained it
27:02
Speaker 2: as just like it's not necessarily some huge overhaul, but
27:06
Speaker 2: it's we're gonna, you know, eliminate some sets from your
27:09
Speaker 2: workout routine. You're gonna spend a little more time in
27:13
Speaker 2: the training room. Really fine details, but just to make
27:16
Speaker 2: sure he continues to feel good. And it's kind of
27:20
Speaker 2: more on a start by start basis. I do think
27:22
Speaker 2: every pitcher in the league kind of does this, but
27:26
Speaker 2: it seems like scooble Is really has become really in
27:30
Speaker 2: tune with his body and like how he's feeling, and
27:33
Speaker 2: what's a good feeling, what's a bad feeling? It's where
27:36
Speaker 2: you know. So I was just curious if he had
27:38
Speaker 2: done anything similar this year in the second half, especially
27:42
Speaker 2: as you continue to go deep into games, especially as
27:45
Speaker 2: you're thinking about playing for like all of October this year.
27:49
Speaker 2: And interestingly enough, he was like, I actually made those
27:51
Speaker 2: changes a month into the season. He said he started
27:54
Speaker 2: feeling worn down a month into the season. I don't
27:56
Speaker 2: want anyone to take that out of context, like, oh,
27:58
Speaker 2: schoobls out again, blah blah blah, because yeah, like and
28:02
Speaker 2: he did have a couple starts that weren't his best,
28:04
Speaker 2: and but then he kind of shoved against Hunter Brown,
28:07
Speaker 2: So I think he's gonna be all right. I think
28:10
Speaker 2: that's like a good sign that a month into the
28:13
Speaker 2: year this guy was like, all right, I'm not feeling
28:15
Speaker 2: quite as good. Let's tweak some stuff. And it's kind
28:18
Speaker 2: of an ongoing thing. But I almost think there's like
28:22
Speaker 2: a lesson to be learned here life lessons from Trek Scougle,
28:27
Speaker 2: because he learned some of this through experience, man through
28:29
Speaker 2: trying to push through it when you don't feel good,
28:32
Speaker 2: you know. He's like, well, that's how you end up her,
28:34
Speaker 2: that's how you end up not performing as well. He
28:36
Speaker 2: mentioned throwing eighty nine miles per hour in like twenty
28:39
Speaker 2: twenty one, which I definitely forgot he ever did that.
28:42
Speaker 2: Terrek Google has thrown all of one eighty nine mile
28:46
Speaker 2: per hour fastballs in the major leagues, and several more
28:49
Speaker 2: that were like ninety ninety one. But he said that's
28:53
Speaker 2: because you think you're not good enough in terms of
28:55
Speaker 2: like changing your routine when you're a young player. And
28:59
Speaker 2: he said that's the whole balance of the mental side
29:01
Speaker 2: of baseball. Oh I'm not good enough. I need to
29:03
Speaker 2: go work more, you know now, through some age, through
29:07
Speaker 2: some success, through some failure. He says, No, you're plenty good.
29:12
Speaker 2: You've done what you're trying to do a million times.
29:15
Speaker 2: Maybe work a little bit less so you feel better,
29:18
Speaker 2: so your body can go out there and do it
29:20
Speaker 2: in the game. That's kind of become his whole thing,
29:24
Speaker 2: and clearly it works.
29:27
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean there's there's a like they're the
29:32
Speaker 1: larger picture there that I would take from this and
29:35
Speaker 1: read the story, and I encourage everybody to go read it.
29:37
Speaker 1: On the athletic. Is that if there were ever a
29:40
Speaker 1: scenario for somebody to kind of be like, no, I'm
29:45
Speaker 1: not gonna change like one month and you know, like
29:47
Speaker 1: what six starts ish give or take into the season,
29:51
Speaker 1: Like like I had this plan, I'm gonna stick with
29:53
Speaker 1: it more least I'm at least gonna get it, get
29:56
Speaker 1: to a Memorial Day, you know what I mean. But
29:58
Speaker 1: but like it coming on Flashy and Triple Crown, saw
30:01
Speaker 1: Young all that stuff, So like there ever a time
30:03
Speaker 1: to be stubborn and justifiably stubborn, it would be can
30:07
Speaker 1: be stubborn, But there's a there's a level of self
30:12
Speaker 1: awareness there, there's a level of maturation that I actually
30:16
Speaker 1: think is is quite admirable and honestly should serve as
30:20
Speaker 1: an example for other guys, not just pitchers. I mean,
30:23
Speaker 1: you know, this metaphor applies to probably any hitter on
30:27
Speaker 1: the team, you know in the game. Hell, it could
30:29
Speaker 1: apply to you know, pitching staff and managers, you know
30:33
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like this metaphor extends out to a
30:35
Speaker 1: lot of things.
30:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know AJ's I think I asked AJ about
30:40
Speaker 2: like two or three players this week, Troy Melton being
30:42
Speaker 2: one of them, and he keeps using the word adaptable.
30:45
Speaker 2: That's been a favorite word of his lately. And if
30:48
Speaker 2: you watch the Tigers play, I guess that's no surprise.
30:51
Speaker 2: All these guys are adaptable in terms of their roles,
30:54
Speaker 2: but also being adaptable in terms of your routine or
30:58
Speaker 2: your pitch mix, or like just not being afraid to
31:01
Speaker 2: make changes for the sake of getting better. That's something
31:06
Speaker 2: a lot of guys on this team have done well.
31:08
Speaker 2: And that's something that Tigers organization has like somehow cultivated
31:12
Speaker 2: a pretty good open mindedness that's obviously serving them well
31:16
Speaker 2: for as much as we spent like twenty minutes kind
31:18
Speaker 2: of like casting doubt on the bullpen. I do think
31:21
Speaker 2: it's worth noting like the Tigers played some swaggy baseball
31:23
Speaker 2: this week, that Riley Green home run over the weekend,
31:27
Speaker 2: Like you could feel the Royals just having their souls
31:30
Speaker 2: sucked out of them. One thing that does vode very
31:33
Speaker 2: well for the Tigers in the postseason more often than not, Man,
31:37
Speaker 2: this has become a team that just gives you nothing,
31:39
Speaker 2: that will capitalize on every mistake. Zach McKinstry. Dude can
31:43
Speaker 2: run the bases, man. He had himself a heck of
31:46
Speaker 2: a weekend. Those are the obvious strengths of this team,
31:51
Speaker 2: and they've really come back in full force over the
31:54
Speaker 2: past couple of weeks.
31:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt about that. Let's wrap up here with
32:02
Speaker 1: you know, speaking of guys that had themselves a nice weekend.
32:06
Speaker 1: Jake only Jake Rogers only played uh, you know, one game,
32:10
Speaker 1: but it was it was a memorable one for for
32:12
Speaker 1: a couple of reasons. But he had himself two hits.
32:14
Speaker 1: He had a couple of ribbies. You know, these these
32:16
Speaker 1: are obviously you know, it's not like headline stuff or whatever,
32:20
Speaker 1: but you know, for a guy who's kind of been
32:22
Speaker 1: through it this season, who hasn't gotten regular playing time
32:25
Speaker 1: and therefore like his offensive output is irregular, it was
32:30
Speaker 1: fun to see. It was fun to see, and I
32:33
Speaker 1: wanted to bring him up because you know, there's a
32:36
Speaker 1: lot of ways that the Jake Rogers twenty twenty five
32:39
Speaker 1: season could have gone sour for a lot of guys
32:43
Speaker 1: like like he he lost he lost his said you say,
32:45
Speaker 1: you never lose your job due to injury, Like he
32:48
Speaker 1: lost his job due to injury, and Dingler like took
32:51
Speaker 1: it and ran with it and all the credit in
32:53
Speaker 1: the world to Dylan Dingler this year. But the backside
32:56
Speaker 1: is that Jake Rogers is no longer the revered like
33:00
Speaker 1: catcher of Trek Schoogl, a catcher of record in a way,
33:03
Speaker 1: you know, and he by all accounts has not let
33:07
Speaker 1: that kind of sink him, sink the team, you know,
33:11
Speaker 1: any of that stuff. And so anytime he had has
33:14
Speaker 1: himself like some success. I think that's awesome because he's
33:17
Speaker 1: a guy that just feels like is important to the
33:19
Speaker 1: team and the makeup, even without the same kind of
33:23
Speaker 1: season that we've seen previously, especially last year.
33:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I don't know. I'm sure there's a part
33:32
Speaker 2: of Jake that doesn't love not playing all the time.
33:35
Speaker 2: He talked a little bit about like the difficulty of
33:38
Speaker 2: staying ready, of especially when you're in the batter's box,
33:42
Speaker 2: like being in a rhythm. Jake has not been very
33:45
Speaker 2: good at the plate. He did some nice things this weekend,
33:49
Speaker 2: but that's like the reality. It's easy to forget. This
33:52
Speaker 2: is a guy who at twenty home runs in the
33:53
Speaker 2: major leagues twenty twenty three, he hit two twenty one
33:57
Speaker 2: with twenty one homers like that will play at the position,
34:01
Speaker 2: and he's been a sub two hundred hitter in the
34:03
Speaker 2: two years since. The power hasn't quite been the same.
34:06
Speaker 2: I think the patience at the plate hasn't quite been
34:09
Speaker 2: the same. That's leading very much to the profile of
34:12
Speaker 2: like a fringy backup catcher. But Jake's still a very
34:17
Speaker 2: good defender. The metrics don't quite show it as much
34:20
Speaker 2: this year, which actually surprises me. I still think he's
34:22
Speaker 2: great back there. Some of that's a product of playing
34:25
Speaker 2: time too, though. You're not gonna have as many blocks
34:27
Speaker 2: above average if you're not playing all that often. But
34:31
Speaker 2: I think there's a part of Jake that gets it,
34:34
Speaker 2: that looks at Dingler and is like, yeah, I'm just
34:37
Speaker 2: you know, I'm probably not gonna hit two eighty, you know,
34:41
Speaker 2: Like like I think he is realistic about how good
34:44
Speaker 2: Dylan Dingler is and like understands his role on this team.
34:48
Speaker 2: His main has stayed a positive presence in the clubhouse,
34:52
Speaker 2: and you got a love guys like that, right, those
34:53
Speaker 2: are important guys. Jake said he has a new founder
34:56
Speaker 2: appreciation for the backup catcher role. He's kind of built
34:59
Speaker 2: for the backup catcher role, and in a lot of ways,
35:02
Speaker 2: I'd love it, you know, if he could unlock the
35:05
Speaker 2: bat a little more. But yeah, like I think you
35:09
Speaker 2: have to give him some degree of props for, like
35:12
Speaker 2: you said, not letting this thing go south, for still
35:15
Speaker 2: being there when he's needed, for still calling a heck
35:18
Speaker 2: of a good game and being an asset, you know,
35:20
Speaker 2: even if it's not the Jake Rogers who was hitting
35:23
Speaker 2: twenty home runs.
35:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like we've seen, you know you talk about
35:28
Speaker 1: like postseason stuff and aspirations, We've seen some crazy things
35:33
Speaker 1: happen from guys who haven't done as much like at
35:36
Speaker 1: the play, come up with big and come up in big,
35:38
Speaker 1: big spots for whatever reason and come through. Tigers certainly
35:42
Speaker 1: have their history of doing that. Wouldn't that be fun
35:44
Speaker 1: to see? And wouldn't that and wouldn't surprise I think we're.
35:47
Speaker 2: Talking about, like, do you want Jake as your backup
35:50
Speaker 2: catcher next season? Do you want the guy who is
35:52
Speaker 2: hitting one to eighty. I guess I'm a little biased here,
35:56
Speaker 2: but I think I think yes, Like I think you
35:58
Speaker 2: know you're getting good defense. How big of an upgrade
36:02
Speaker 2: are you're really going to get from some other catcher
36:06
Speaker 2: at the plate probably gonna be minimal. Jake does still
36:09
Speaker 2: have as much power upside as probably any of the
36:12
Speaker 2: options that are going to be at your disposal. And
36:15
Speaker 2: you know, he's an important, like blue guy in the clubhouse,
36:19
Speaker 2: totally confident rolling with the Jake Dingler catching tandem next season.
36:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if we see it, if we see
36:27
Speaker 1: it like this, and you know, you hope for a
36:29
Speaker 1: little bit more offensive production and maybe that can lead
36:31
Speaker 1: to a little bit more balanced playing time.
36:34
Speaker 2: I would say, god Tingler's this team's positional leader and
36:39
Speaker 2: a four like he is, he's killing it man.
36:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, credit to him, But this feels like a
36:48
Speaker 1: catching tandem that I doubt most span bases and coaching
36:53
Speaker 1: staffs have as much confidence as the Tigers and Tigers
36:56
Speaker 1: fans do in these two guys. So good on Jake,
36:59
Speaker 1: happy for him, and uh and yeah, I'm I'm not
37:02
Speaker 1: really I'm not really interested in changing that dynamic for
37:06
Speaker 1: all the intangible stuff and even some of the upside
37:08
Speaker 1: stuff that probably is still in there. All right, anything else,
37:12
Speaker 1: Cody before we jet out here?
37:15
Speaker 2: No, No, I think that covers it. Tigers are going
37:17
Speaker 2: to be on the road here for a little bit.
37:19
Speaker 2: Let's see if they can keep playing some swaggy.
37:21
Speaker 1: Ball Swaggy Tigs. Maybe that's the new one. Hey, I
37:26
Speaker 1: like that Swaggy Tigs. Let's get it started, all right.
37:29
Speaker 1: We can follow us on x romally known as Twitter
37:31
Speaker 1: at Cody Stavenhagen. I am at Kieran Underscore, Decicely pot
37:34
Speaker 1: pages at Tiger Territory Underscore, YouTube, Instagram, Apple, Spotify, you
37:38
Speaker 1: guys know what to do. We appreciate all of you,
37:40
Speaker 1: so for Cody stave Maenhagen, I am Kieran Steckley. Everybody,
37:43
Speaker 1: have great day,