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Rorschach Murder At City Hall Hosted By Journalists Jamal Jordan And Brent Katz · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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Speaker 1: Hey, there's a podcast network I would love for you
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Speaker 1: to check out. It's Aro dot net, A r r
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Speaker 1: oe dot net. It's not just one podcast, it's twenty
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Speaker 1: about those conversations as it was happening. It's just outside
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Speaker 1: dot net A r r oe dot Net. Enjoy your exploration.
0:28
Speaker 1: You guys, does this podcast come at the right time
0:31
Speaker 1: or what? Because you're researching something here and delivering a
0:34
Speaker 1: story that just proves to the rest of this nation
0:37
Speaker 1: and world. The junk we're going through is not new.
0:40
Speaker 1: But let's go ahead and figure out what they did
0:42
Speaker 1: back then so we can maybe understand what's going on today.
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Speaker 2: You get it, Yes, you get it. Two thousand and
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Speaker 2: three is when this story is set. It's July. This
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Speaker 2: city council member brings this guy with him who attracted
1:00
Speaker 2: younger guy who maybe was running against him. Maybe they
1:03
Speaker 2: cut a deal or something. They walk through the metal detectors.
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Speaker 2: They both go off because they're both armed with guns.
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Speaker 2: But during that time, you know Bloomberg and who was
1:12
Speaker 2: the mayor, and you know they would just go through
1:14
Speaker 2: and if it went off, it went off. It was
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Speaker 2: a courtesy to the people who worked there. And so
1:18
Speaker 2: the councilman and his guests go through. He introduces this
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Speaker 2: guest to many people as he takes him up the
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Speaker 2: stairs into this old, beautiful building, up the rotunda to
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Speaker 2: the city council chamber on the second floor, introduces him around.
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Speaker 2: A lot of people are getting a strange vibe from
1:36
Speaker 2: this man. He brings him up into the balcony. They
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Speaker 2: have a little bit of an argument, and then the
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Speaker 2: guy Neil asks few who was supposedly running against James Davis.
1:46
Speaker 2: The councilman shoots James Davis six times, point blank in
1:51
Speaker 2: the back. There's two hundred and fifty people in the room,
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Speaker 2: from political figures to children. In that melee a cop
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Speaker 2: who's on his literally first day as a security guard
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Speaker 2: for Giffrid Milli. The speaker steps forward, shoots about thirty
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Speaker 2: five forty feet into the balcony, a shooting that they
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Speaker 2: don't teach you in training, and kills the killer instantly.
2:19
Speaker 2: And you hear in the show the gunshots and it
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Speaker 2: almost sounds like one gun because it's so the Richard Burt,
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Speaker 2: this cop is so quick to snap into action. But
2:27
Speaker 2: the result of this in which both men die right away,
2:32
Speaker 2: is that certain mysteries just perplex everyone around it, and
2:38
Speaker 2: they don't necessarily believe what happened. They don't believe this
2:40
Speaker 2: cop on his first day was able to perfectly take
2:43
Speaker 2: out the one person who knows the motivation behind this crime.
2:46
Speaker 2: It all just doesn't It's you know, how does this
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Speaker 2: rising politician get killed by a random, crazy person who
2:53
Speaker 2: had no chance running against him. It just seems a
2:56
Speaker 2: little too pat for some people. That's why this show
2:59
Speaker 2: is basically it starts off with the event. The shooting
3:02
Speaker 2: is the first episode and a half, and the whole
3:04
Speaker 2: rest of the show is why and what happened between
3:07
Speaker 2: these two men and some stuff they took to their
3:09
Speaker 2: graves and other things. We get closer than anyone ever has,
3:12
Speaker 2: and we bring out new information and some parts will
3:16
Speaker 2: always be unknowable, but you really do get a texture
3:19
Speaker 2: of the time and sort of a sense of these
3:21
Speaker 2: two complicated men as their destiny is intertwined.
3:25
Speaker 3: Well.
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Speaker 1: The thing that the two of you have done here
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Speaker 1: that just blows me away as a journalist is that
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Speaker 1: you totally set it up in those opening episodes because
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Speaker 1: we're all going to have our own opinion as listeners.
3:36
Speaker 1: And then you it's basically you put your hand upstaying
3:38
Speaker 1: but but, but, but wait a second before you jump
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Speaker 1: to your so called human conclusion. I got something you
3:45
Speaker 1: need to know. And then at the end of this podcast,
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Speaker 1: now we can have a conversation. I mean, you guys
3:50
Speaker 1: totally set us up as listeners.
3:53
Speaker 3: That's what I'm so proud of, Like how and depth
3:56
Speaker 3: we are able to take listeners, like it feels very cinematic.
4:00
Speaker 3: There's so much rock footage from the day, it's so
4:02
Speaker 3: much archiable footage. It speak to so many people, and like,
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Speaker 3: I really think that if I could say one thing
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Speaker 3: I think we get well was we did a good
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Speaker 3: job of It's like bringing you in the room and
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Speaker 3: that day, and it's like taking you through New York
4:16
Speaker 3: in the days and weeks after and before.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and see. And the thing is is that's time
4:21
Speaker 1: well spent. And I think as podcasters, you understand what
4:23
Speaker 1: I'm talking about that because those listeners only have so
4:25
Speaker 1: much time or they're gonna check out. I can't check
4:28
Speaker 1: out of your damn show. I can't because you guys
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Speaker 1: give me so much stuff to dive into. It's like, ah,
4:34
Speaker 1: I'm still here. God dang it. But that's how great
4:36
Speaker 1: you guys are delivering this story.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
4:42
Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say, it's ten episodes, which seems
4:46
Speaker 2: like a lot of episodes. It's about five hours total.
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Speaker 2: And this is a story that you know, basically there's
4:52
Speaker 2: only like tabloid stories from the week. There's a few
4:55
Speaker 2: other things here and there, but it's never been done
4:57
Speaker 2: in depth. And we got this enormous canvas and then
5:00
Speaker 2: at the end it was still uh oh, there's not
5:03
Speaker 2: room for that bit. There's you know, there's so much
5:06
Speaker 2: to it that even ten episodes, we were leaving some
5:10
Speaker 2: darlings on the cutting room floyer.
5:12
Speaker 3: Yeah.
5:12
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say, Jamal, because one of the
5:14
Speaker 1: things that you guys are really good at. You set
5:16
Speaker 1: up the mystery and then you draw the picture for
5:19
Speaker 1: us because you retrace the facts. Now, the two of
5:22
Speaker 1: you coming together on a collaboration like that, how is
5:25
Speaker 1: it that you were able to really plant those pictures
5:27
Speaker 1: inside our imagination because you had to be thinking about
5:30
Speaker 1: those who are receiving. You've already got the past and
5:33
Speaker 1: it's almost like you guys are saying, we're not living
5:35
Speaker 1: in it, We're going to reflect on it and learn
5:37
Speaker 1: something from it.
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Speaker 3: I think the cool thing is this has been a
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Speaker 3: project that I'm working on for so so so long,
5:46
Speaker 3: and like to have someone who just like knows every
5:49
Speaker 3: detail of this thing, I would argue more than any
5:52
Speaker 3: of the like a the major news organizations that covered it.
5:56
Speaker 3: There is just like so much there for us to
5:59
Speaker 3: dig into. Like I feel like as a narrator, it
6:03
Speaker 3: wasn't even that hard to like have to work to
6:08
Speaker 3: draw you in, because I feel like, as you hear
6:11
Speaker 3: from the first episode, like within minutes, like this crazy
6:14
Speaker 3: thing happened, and so many people have all these different
6:17
Speaker 3: perspectives on it, and like how could you not get
6:19
Speaker 3: drawn into that? It feels like I one of the
6:23
Speaker 3: things that Brent said to me that moved me is like,
6:26
Speaker 3: we don't understand why this was forgotten in New York
6:29
Speaker 3: for nationally, and to like go back and you see it,
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Speaker 3: it's like, wait, this is like an absolutely unbelievable thing,
6:38
Speaker 3: and uh, it's not too hard to throw that.
6:41
Speaker 2: Out for you.
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Speaker 1: So what is it? Do you guys think that? I mean,
6:43
Speaker 1: because they always say, for the past twenty years, we
6:45
Speaker 1: all should have gotten numb to all of these things
6:48
Speaker 1: that take place politically as well as on the streets
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Speaker 1: of America. But yet when I listened to your episode,
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Speaker 1: I'm the furthest thing away from numb, and you won't
6:56
Speaker 1: let me become numb because it's almost like my dad saying,
6:59
Speaker 1: will you pay attention? You got to pay attention to
7:01
Speaker 1: what's going on here. And that's what I love about
7:03
Speaker 1: what you're doing. It's it's almost like you guys are saying, hey, look,
7:06
Speaker 1: this involves real people in real time. It may not
7:10
Speaker 1: be in your time right now, but you're listening to
7:12
Speaker 1: the podcast, so yes it is. Now figure it out,
7:15
Speaker 1: and let's let's don't just be an innocent bystander. Let's
7:18
Speaker 1: have a repercussion here.
7:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Well, I think you got it that it's the human
7:25
Speaker 2: characters that make it feel specific and important, and you
7:29
Speaker 2: know the versions that were out there before. This isn't
7:33
Speaker 2: universally across the board, but often it's like James Davis
7:37
Speaker 2: was this rising star, Neil ask You was this crazy monster,
7:41
Speaker 2: and when you dig deeper into both of them, it
7:46
Speaker 2: starts to become more real and you start to really
7:48
Speaker 2: feel like you're there, because no one is that simple.
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Speaker 2: James Davis isn't a simple angel. Daniel ask You isn't
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Speaker 2: a simple monster. They're both real people, they both were
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Speaker 2: super ambitious, they both there's a lot of things can
8:00
Speaker 2: relate to. There's a lot of things you can James
8:02
Speaker 2: Davis is charismatic to a point that's like beyond our
8:06
Speaker 2: normal sense of it. He would never sleep almost He
8:09
Speaker 2: was always always campaigning and trying to use his charisma
8:14
Speaker 2: to get him further in this world. And then he
8:17
Speaker 2: believes this charisma can work on anyone, and he meets
8:20
Speaker 2: someone who he both turns the screws on and also charms,
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Speaker 2: and he thinks that this will continue to work because
8:29
Speaker 2: he's always been right. He's always been sort of invincible.
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Speaker 2: It's his gift and his downfall. And the alask You
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Speaker 2: isn't just a crazy person. He's a person in a
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Speaker 2: terrible kind of like cornered who's suffering from HIV and
8:44
Speaker 2: the medications aren't working for him. He becomes fixated on
8:48
Speaker 2: a goal that might be a little crazy, but he
8:51
Speaker 2: has his own logic and he has his own dark
8:53
Speaker 2: story and his own humanity. And it doesn't excuse his crime,
8:56
Speaker 2: but it certainly makes it all feel more real.
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Speaker 1: Please don't move. There's more with Jamal and Brent coming
9:02
Speaker 1: up next the podcast Roarsak Murder at City Hall, hosted
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Speaker 1: by Jamal, Jordan and Brincatz. How did you guys organize
9:13
Speaker 1: the sound bites? Because, first of all, your sound bites
9:16
Speaker 1: are this is award winning stuff. I know at the
9:18
Speaker 1: end of the year they're going to do the iHeartRadio Awards.
9:21
Speaker 1: I know you got to be on there because you
9:23
Speaker 1: the way that you guys have mastered the art of
9:25
Speaker 1: sound bites and lending them tell the story and bringing
9:29
Speaker 1: that story even deeper into our lives. How did you
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Speaker 1: catalog that?
9:35
Speaker 2: Well? So we we put together a script. We full
9:40
Speaker 2: select so from an interview, whether Jamal or I are
9:44
Speaker 2: interviewing the person, we're sort of as we're as we're listening,
9:47
Speaker 2: even being like, oh okay, that's certainly going in, you know,
9:51
Speaker 2: and sometimes we listen back. But like, the idea of
9:54
Speaker 2: this show is not really a podcast where we are
9:57
Speaker 2: constantly telling you what to think and holding your hand.
10:01
Speaker 2: For the most part, we're trying to give you the
10:03
Speaker 2: information you need to hear. The story from the people
10:06
Speaker 2: who were there, and so it's really the interviewees who
10:12
Speaker 2: you know, along with Jamal bring this story to life
10:14
Speaker 2: and using those, you know, we would base episodes around
10:18
Speaker 2: around stories that people told, and so it's always coming
10:21
Speaker 2: from a place of what are we getting from the clips?
10:24
Speaker 2: What are we you know, we're also not looking for
10:26
Speaker 2: people to say certain things. We're just looking for them
10:30
Speaker 2: to tell the truth of what happened to them. And
10:33
Speaker 2: when we see patterns and things, we start to put
10:36
Speaker 2: those together and we're like, Okay, James Davis's relationship towards women,
10:41
Speaker 2: what that has to do with, you know, his reputation
10:44
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn, and with why certain people thought he was
10:48
Speaker 2: taking certain kinds of risks that put him in danger.
10:51
Speaker 2: Like that ends up being a section because we have
10:53
Speaker 2: all these people bring that up. So, you know, there
10:56
Speaker 2: are a lot of amazing talkers in this and a
10:59
Speaker 2: lot of amazing New York accents, and a lot of
11:01
Speaker 2: ca real characters. I mean, this is a world that's
11:04
Speaker 2: rich with these kind of unbelievable characters, and so that
11:08
Speaker 2: was part of the fun is finding these amazing moments
11:11
Speaker 2: from them and you know, building scenes around them.
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Speaker 1: A really fascinating thing is about all of this is
11:16
Speaker 1: the fact that when this crime took place, the Internet
11:19
Speaker 1: wasn't what it is today, where I could instantly go
11:21
Speaker 1: to chat GPT or go to you know, gruck and
11:24
Speaker 1: sit there and try to figure out answers. You guys
11:26
Speaker 1: had to do the dirty work by going in there
11:27
Speaker 1: and getting real authentic conversations, because I swear to God,
11:31
Speaker 1: back in the early part of this millennium, we were
11:33
Speaker 1: still all numb to what a politician was. Today, we
11:36
Speaker 1: will scrutinize the hell out of a person, but yet,
11:39
Speaker 1: but yet, you guys are going into an area where
11:41
Speaker 1: we had to believe those road signs saying vote for
11:43
Speaker 1: this person, vote for that person. But you're giving us
11:45
Speaker 1: a deeper view of who they are as people more
11:48
Speaker 1: than politicians.
11:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamali, you want to.
11:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's the coolest part of this podcast
11:59
Speaker 3: because like, you know, like we're journalists. We uh hear
12:03
Speaker 3: everyone talk on TV every day. But there's something about
12:06
Speaker 3: like that era just before the Internet took everything over,
12:10
Speaker 3: where it was like our last bastion of politicians being
12:14
Speaker 3: these like really big other like other type of like
12:19
Speaker 3: this person. And it's like getting to deconstruct that uh
12:24
Speaker 3: like beside as, I think one of the coolest things
12:26
Speaker 3: that we get to do with the show. You know,
12:29
Speaker 3: he this this person is like a very powerful man,
12:32
Speaker 3: but he's also like a bit of a uh like
12:38
Speaker 3: mess and violent and and you know, like spar and
12:41
Speaker 3: all those things. So it's really cool to do that.
12:43
Speaker 1: And you know what, and listeners are you know. One
12:45
Speaker 1: of the things is as they get into the story
12:46
Speaker 1: deeper and deeper, especially on on episodes two and three,
12:49
Speaker 1: they're going to start having visions of their own interpretation
12:53
Speaker 1: of what they've personally gone through in their own cities
12:56
Speaker 1: where there have been crimes such as this. This is
12:58
Speaker 1: not the only time something like this has happened in
13:00
Speaker 1: the City Hall, but by god, you guys have got
13:02
Speaker 1: the balls to really grow this story forward and to
13:05
Speaker 1: talk about it, because it left the front page and
13:07
Speaker 1: went to no page until you guys came forward with
13:10
Speaker 1: one now where we're talking about it.
13:14
Speaker 3: Totally.
13:15
Speaker 2: That is one of the big mysteries of the show
13:16
Speaker 2: is how something like this can happen and then be forgotten,
13:20
Speaker 2: And you know, our last episode sort of gets into
13:23
Speaker 2: theories of that. It also shows how it changed New
13:27
Speaker 2: York politics. It wasn't just a personal story, it's also
13:29
Speaker 2: a political one. But I would say for national listeners,
13:33
Speaker 2: like you don't have to be interested in New York
13:34
Speaker 2: City politics at all. It just happens to be the
13:37
Speaker 2: fascinating setting. But it's a human drama that's about people
13:43
Speaker 2: clashing and people trying to rise up in the world
13:47
Speaker 2: and sort of prove wrong sort of the hand they've
13:51
Speaker 2: been dealt. And you know, this guy wanted to be
13:54
Speaker 2: president and truly believed it and had an ability to
13:57
Speaker 2: make other people around.
13:58
Speaker 3: Him believe it.
13:59
Speaker 2: He was a great seducer in every sense, and he
14:03
Speaker 2: was That's core to a politician as a sort of
14:08
Speaker 2: you know, you care about your community and you care
14:11
Speaker 2: about your own ambition, and you really are not going
14:13
Speaker 2: to be stopped. And so you often have these collisions,
14:17
Speaker 2: especially in Brooklyn politics, that are kind of fascinating to
14:20
Speaker 2: anyone who's interested in these sort of things. Sometimes it's like,
14:24
Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to care about fantasy to
14:27
Speaker 2: enjoy Game of Thrones, or you don't have to care
14:29
Speaker 2: about politics to care about a human drama.
14:33
Speaker 1: Jamal, I got a question for you with you come
14:35
Speaker 1: on when you dig into this the way that you
14:37
Speaker 1: are and you see how brutal this crime is, and
14:39
Speaker 1: you know what said in New York City, is there
14:41
Speaker 1: a side of your personality that says, what would Bruce
14:44
Speaker 1: Wayne do in a situation like this? We do we
14:47
Speaker 1: put Batman to signal up in the sky and get
14:49
Speaker 1: Batman involved, because it does it sounds like something that
14:52
Speaker 1: would take place in Gotham City.
14:54
Speaker 3: Man, you know, like you know you say that, But
14:57
Speaker 3: I honestly, the thing that I learned thinking this was, uh,
15:02
Speaker 3: I learned so much about what it means to be
15:04
Speaker 3: a politician, right Like when I first when I first started,
15:07
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, this is a batman, this
15:10
Speaker 3: is the person who was hurt. But it's so much
15:12
Speaker 3: more complicated than that. I need to, like I need
15:15
Speaker 3: Bruce Wayne like take a minute to understand like everything
15:17
Speaker 3: that's happening before we go and to score some people,
15:19
Speaker 3: you know. And and that's the cool part about that.
15:22
Speaker 3: That's like it's obviously a tragedy, but it's so much
15:25
Speaker 3: more complicated than the black and white of our comic
15:30
Speaker 3: book heroes.
15:30
Speaker 1: But but here's the thing though, I mean, it's like,
15:33
Speaker 1: you give us this story and it's almost invisibly or subliminally,
15:37
Speaker 1: you're saying, don't whip out the smartphone and start recording
15:40
Speaker 1: something that's gone wrong. Can we just get the story, people,
15:43
Speaker 1: or get the hell out of there, But don't sit
15:46
Speaker 1: there with your smartphone. I mean, you're you're proving that
15:48
Speaker 1: here come the lone ranger. You guys are coming in
15:51
Speaker 1: because you're gonna get the real story where everybody else
15:53
Speaker 1: was just holding up their phone.
15:56
Speaker 2: Well, I so when you said that thing about a chat,
15:58
Speaker 2: chypt and croc and stuff, you know that stuff gives
16:01
Speaker 2: you things that are already on the Internet. And one
16:04
Speaker 2: thing about this story is there's a lot of people
16:06
Speaker 2: who don't even you know, we had to find outside
16:08
Speaker 2: of the internet. The internet is not truly a reflection
16:12
Speaker 2: of everyone. It's a reflection of everyone who's online.
16:15
Speaker 3: And so.
16:17
Speaker 2: If you could never get this story from a from
16:19
Speaker 2: a chat, but maybe now you could get our uh
16:23
Speaker 2: you know, our podcast through it. But it comes from
16:26
Speaker 2: actually making uncomfortable phone calls, going out on the streets
16:31
Speaker 2: and talking to people, asking people who else they know
16:34
Speaker 2: who might have this story, And so a lot of
16:36
Speaker 2: them are really not online. And some of the most
16:39
Speaker 2: amazing stories come from people who just are not of
16:42
Speaker 2: this necessarily time and moment and are not posting their
16:45
Speaker 2: whole lives on TikTok. They're they're in some ways pretty private,
16:49
Speaker 2: pretty uninterested in technology, and this means a lot of
16:53
Speaker 2: them and they're just out there and finding them as
16:55
Speaker 2: part of the hard the hard work, but really satisfying
16:58
Speaker 2: when you do so.
16:59
Speaker 1: Jamal, how did you handle those moments when you're having
17:01
Speaker 1: a conversation with a witness or somebody that was involved
17:04
Speaker 1: and they give you not words, but they give you
17:07
Speaker 1: the look and you know that microphone has got to
17:09
Speaker 1: record them. How do you get them out of that
17:11
Speaker 1: state of the look where they want you to read
17:14
Speaker 1: their mind, they don't want to say it.
17:17
Speaker 3: There was a time It's like in one of the
17:19
Speaker 3: Middle episodes, we walk with a woman named Amir Loomis.
17:24
Speaker 3: It was one of my favorite interviews. We are going.
17:29
Speaker 3: She takes us through Brooklyn from the place that she
17:33
Speaker 3: was where she found out about the shooting that happened,
17:35
Speaker 3: to the pizza place where they would get pizza outside
17:38
Speaker 3: of this man's office, and there were there were these
17:41
Speaker 3: few moments when you know she's a talker. We're all talkers.
17:44
Speaker 3: There will be a few moments when you could just
17:47
Speaker 3: like for a second or two just see like her
17:52
Speaker 3: absorb the memory of where she was. And I think, honestly,
17:57
Speaker 3: like in those times, I'm just like you guys can't
18:02
Speaker 3: see what she's like feeling. But and this is gonna
18:06
Speaker 3: sound cunny, but I think that you can hear that
18:08
Speaker 3: silent like in the two seconds between me asking your
18:11
Speaker 3: question and her like exhaling to tell me some beautiful
18:14
Speaker 3: story of two thousand and three, I think you can
18:18
Speaker 3: feel that gravity on the table.
18:20
Speaker 1: Wow, and Brinch, It's almost like you guys are straightening
18:24
Speaker 1: out the road of a very crooked highway or even
18:26
Speaker 1: a road like that in San Francisco, the world's crookedest road,
18:29
Speaker 1: Because what you're doing is you're straightening out the path
18:32
Speaker 1: so that we don't sit here and assume that we
18:34
Speaker 1: think we know this story. And I guarantee listeners, there
18:37
Speaker 1: is a payoff all the way through this podcast. I mean,
18:40
Speaker 1: and that's what I love about you guys, being the
18:41
Speaker 1: journalist that you are. You understand the concept and the
18:45
Speaker 1: ability to build the story and then give them something
18:48
Speaker 1: to have.
18:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one you know, in terms of making
18:54
Speaker 2: them three dimensional characters. I think the story needs to
18:58
Speaker 2: be told in a compelling way that holds you along
19:01
Speaker 2: and sort of in some ways mirrors our investigation in
19:04
Speaker 2: some ways uses the chronology because it's very dramatic, especially
19:08
Speaker 2: around episode seven or eight. These two people you've been
19:11
Speaker 2: hearing about suddenly come into each other's lives and they
19:14
Speaker 2: only know each other for you know, maybe six weeks
19:17
Speaker 2: before one kills the other, and so every scene with
19:21
Speaker 2: the two of them together once they meet, I was
19:23
Speaker 2: always fascinated, And seven and eight have a real power
19:26
Speaker 2: because Devin is I think, like the summer basically that
19:30
Speaker 2: they meet, and then eight is just the day, the
19:33
Speaker 2: morning basically before episode one. Episode one starts with them
19:37
Speaker 2: arriving at city Hall. Episode eight starts with that morning
19:40
Speaker 2: when he's Neil asks you is calling other opponents at
19:44
Speaker 2: five in the morning, trying to get them to drop
19:46
Speaker 2: out and sign something supporting him, or trying to make
19:49
Speaker 2: a deal where they'll be the council member. But he'll
19:51
Speaker 2: do these real estate things, and you hear people talking
19:54
Speaker 2: about him calling him that morning and then later learning
19:57
Speaker 2: that day he's you know, I didn't meet up with them,
20:00
Speaker 2: but the other councilman did and he got killed. So
20:03
Speaker 2: you get very very close, and whenever they're in the
20:05
Speaker 2: same scenes, it's, uh, it's just there's a there's a
20:08
Speaker 2: tension that's been building the whole show because you know
20:10
Speaker 2: they're coming together. You've already seen sort of the dramatic ending,
20:14
Speaker 2: and now you're seeing it in this new context. We
20:17
Speaker 2: try to every time we're getting closer also bring in
20:20
Speaker 2: more information that helps you see it sort of differently.
20:24
Speaker 1: Wow, you guys have got to come back to this
20:26
Speaker 1: show anytime in the future. I love what you're doing
20:28
Speaker 1: with your journalism and your skills as storytellers, and more importantly,
20:32
Speaker 1: thank you for not forgetting about history that is so important.
20:35
Speaker 1: Thank you for not forgetting.
20:38
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well, thank you for listening.
20:40
Speaker 1: Would you guys be brilliant today?
20:42
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, you too.
20:45
Speaker 3: Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your morning.