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Transcript

Mr.Swirl · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

0:07
Speaker 1: Traveling the world is an incredible experience. Finding landscapes that
0:11
Speaker 1: belong to other cultures and experiencing the way of life
0:14
Speaker 1: others live can often be invigorating and often life changing.
0:21
Speaker 1: But as we already know, when there is good, there
0:25
Speaker 1: also tends to be bad. With tourism, there is no exception,
0:30
Speaker 1: and today we talk about the dark side of tourism
0:33
Speaker 1: and a particular man who took advantage of other countries' laws,
0:38
Speaker 1: their people, and most heinous of all their children.
0:44
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
0:47
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast. Warning.
0:51
Speaker 1: The following podcast and material intended for a mature audience
0:58
Speaker 1: listener discretion. We're back from Halloween week. We are, It's over,
1:22
Speaker 1: It's done. How was that seven days in between? I
1:26
Speaker 1: have a feeling that comes long for a lot of people.
1:28
Speaker 1: I know it is long for me.
1:30
Speaker 2: Curious if everyone's even caught up.
1:32
Speaker 1: That's true. Actually, I'm not actually expecting everyone to listen
1:35
Speaker 1: every episode every day, so I'm curious if everyone is
1:38
Speaker 1: by now caught up or if they're still going through it.
1:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, it almost feels like it's been way longer than
1:44
Speaker 2: a week, right, now just because we were doing episodes
1:47
Speaker 2: every day.
1:47
Speaker 1: It does it felt like a summer vacation almost. Yeah,
1:51
Speaker 1: like it drug on if I'm being completely honest. Yeah,
1:55
Speaker 1: that's true.
1:56
Speaker 2: But it was no time away really like our normal.
1:59
Speaker 2: It wasn't normal.
2:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're back onto the normal, except we've been away
2:06
Speaker 1: so long now we're just brain farting. That's what's happening.
2:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is what's happening.
2:10
Speaker 1: That is but we are back to the regular schedule
2:12
Speaker 1: of just Tuesday uploads and now that Halloween is gone.
2:17
Speaker 1: We actually oppose this question not long ago in Patreon.
2:20
Speaker 1: I haven't gone back and responded to everyone yet and
2:23
Speaker 1: started the conversations with them, but I have seen a
2:25
Speaker 1: lot of people commenting in regards to Christmas decorating.
2:30
Speaker 2: Okay, well we were chatting about that today. I had
2:33
Speaker 2: a brilliant idea.
2:34
Speaker 1: Well you did putting it because, I mean, Tommy home,
2:37
Speaker 1: it's hard to have a Christmas tree indoors, so you
2:40
Speaker 1: came up with the idea on the gazebo we put up. Yeah,
2:43
Speaker 1: have a Christmas tree in.
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Speaker 2: There because we have power going to there, so it'd
2:46
Speaker 2: be pretty easy.
2:47
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what's your what's your vision for it.
2:50
Speaker 2: I would almost Well, I was going to say clear
2:53
Speaker 2: everything off the deck that we have there, but it
2:55
Speaker 2: would be nice because we do a little fire pit
2:57
Speaker 2: there too. You could sit there with the tree, That's true.
3:00
Speaker 2: So I'd keep that stuff there and I just put
3:02
Speaker 2: the tree kind of in the middle, and I'd probably
3:04
Speaker 2: just do lights. I don't know if i'd really do ornaments.
3:07
Speaker 1: Okay, we do have a bunch of ornaments in storage.
3:10
Speaker 2: Well, how would they do in the cold weather? Though
3:13
Speaker 2: outside in the element?
3:14
Speaker 1: I think they're cheap. They're all right, But we can't
3:18
Speaker 1: do that until December.
3:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, we're December first people for Christmas decorating.
3:24
Speaker 1: That's our cutoff. You can decorate Halloween when October hits.
3:28
Speaker 1: You can decorate Christmas when December hits. That's the rule. Yeah,
3:32
Speaker 1: but I know other people live by different rules. Like
3:36
Speaker 1: I am friends with one of our patreons because this
3:39
Speaker 1: is a real life friend of ours who joined us
3:40
Speaker 1: some Patreon DEMI. Yeah, though I haven't seen her response
3:43
Speaker 1: in Patreon yet, I have seen a personal post on
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Speaker 1: Facebook where she erected her Christmas tree today. Really, yes,
3:50
Speaker 1: so clearly I know she is living in a lawless land.
3:53
Speaker 1: So DEMI shout out to you for doing what you
3:55
Speaker 1: want and live in your way. That's awesome, that's honestly,
3:58
Speaker 1: I mean, hey, do you I disagree with it wholeheartedly,
4:02
Speaker 1: but I appreciate you doing you well.
4:05
Speaker 2: Growing up, I remember it was always December first for
4:07
Speaker 2: us too, But my mom would often like say if
4:11
Speaker 2: December first was or how I don't know. Often it
4:15
Speaker 2: was like a week ahead or something like she we
4:17
Speaker 2: led her way for it to be a week ahead.
4:20
Speaker 2: But I know a lot of people if they do
4:21
Speaker 2: decorate too early, they get sick of it the decorations
4:24
Speaker 2: by the time Christmas comes, right, Yeah, And I.
4:26
Speaker 1: Don't know, it's like it gives you something to look
4:28
Speaker 1: forward to a little bit more. It's like, okay, it's like,
4:31
Speaker 1: get to decorate on December first, and then it's like
4:33
Speaker 1: makes like you say, that countdown to Christmas a little
4:35
Speaker 1: bit shorter. And yeah, I don't know. But the other
4:39
Speaker 1: side of the coin is it makes Christmas season longer.
4:41
Speaker 1: People like the Christmas season, so why not, Like I
4:44
Speaker 1: get it.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a joyful season.
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Speaker 1: It is, well, it should be. It's supposed to be.
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Speaker 2: It's supposed to be, but actually it's not. Always, especially
4:53
Speaker 2: if you're dealing with like a loss or something, it
4:55
Speaker 2: almost makes it worse. I'm being honest.
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Speaker 1: And consumerism nowadays too is through the roof. So yeah, yeah, anyways,
5:03
Speaker 1: we got some patreons to think, we sure do after
5:06
Speaker 1: this thing and to go and I'm going to actually
5:07
Speaker 1: engage with them in that Christmas conversation see what their
5:10
Speaker 1: opinion is. But we have some patrons who signed up
5:13
Speaker 1: since our last episode. So we have Marie, Chris and Crystal, Melissa,
5:19
Speaker 1: Juice Kick, and Emily Alred. They all signed up over
5:22
Speaker 1: on Patreon to get that exclusive stuff.
5:25
Speaker 2: Thanks so much. Yeah, we sure do appreciate that.
5:28
Speaker 1: And if you guys want to join us on Patreon
5:30
Speaker 1: links down below. If not, yeah, that's cool, you're here. Hey.
5:33
Speaker 1: If you just want to see some behind the scenes,
5:35
Speaker 1: but not the Patreon behind the scenes, we have a
5:37
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. We uploaded a YouTube video like an hour ago.
5:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's a really good one.
5:42
Speaker 1: Actually, go to the description of this once a podcast
5:44
Speaker 1: is done, you can check out that video where we
5:48
Speaker 1: show our chickens off. Well I do because Nicole wasn't home,
5:51
Speaker 1: but anyways, you get to see that. Regardless, let's dive
5:55
Speaker 1: into this episode, because that's what you're here for. You're
5:57
Speaker 1: here for TRR crime. Yeah, not chickens or Christmas discussion.
6:01
Speaker 2: And I'll just know really quick. We do have our
6:03
Speaker 2: like generic disclosure at the beginning, because you know, we
6:06
Speaker 2: talk about heavy shit here. But this one is kid related,
6:10
Speaker 2: and a lot of people were like want an extra
6:12
Speaker 2: heads up for that sometimes when we try to, so
6:15
Speaker 2: just letting you.
6:15
Speaker 1: Know, so I will tell you now that, yes, Nichol's correct,
6:18
Speaker 1: this one is child related. However, I do not go
6:22
Speaker 1: over any details of said child relation stuff. Okay, I
6:28
Speaker 1: don't mention any graphic details what soever involving children. Correct. Okay,
6:34
Speaker 1: in fact, no graphic details whatsoever I talk about in
6:36
Speaker 1: this one. I strictly talk about the crime that was committed.
6:40
Speaker 1: So just say, for example, this is not this case.
6:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, for example, right now, say for example,
6:45
Speaker 1: some case somewhere where a child was murdered. I'm not
6:49
Speaker 1: going to talk about the murder whatsoever. I just talked
6:51
Speaker 1: about the child is murdered, and that's as far as
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Speaker 1: I go. So in this case, children are victims, and
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Speaker 1: I just simply say they are the victims. They were abused.
7:00
Speaker 1: That's all I really say. Okay, so if you can,
7:02
Speaker 1: if you got through this, you can probably get through
7:04
Speaker 1: the rest of this episode.
7:05
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't know.
7:06
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying?
7:07
Speaker 2: We get it, you get it.
7:08
Speaker 1: Okay. I'm trying to give you a warning, but you
7:10
Speaker 1: don't need too much of one generally because it is
7:13
Speaker 1: light Still.
7:13
Speaker 2: It's just funny. How a lot sooner to try I do.
7:16
Speaker 2: I'm so bad for that. You're explaining something and then
7:19
Speaker 2: I'm explaining it. Just yeah, it's.
7:21
Speaker 1: Just gone out of control because like this is not
7:24
Speaker 1: a light case by any means. I just there's no
7:27
Speaker 1: graphic details to go along with it in this episode.
7:30
Speaker 1: Yeah that's good. Okay, Okay, So today's story, I first
7:35
Speaker 1: want to shout out Nick Crowley on YouTube. His video
7:39
Speaker 1: was the single best resource of information regarding this case.
7:42
Speaker 1: So I pulled a lot from his video, So thank
7:44
Speaker 1: you very much. Did an incredible job covering it, so
7:48
Speaker 1: help me out. Immensely awesome. But today's story, we do
7:52
Speaker 1: start off in an internet cafe in Peta, Thailand. This
7:56
Speaker 1: is the early two thousands, So two young brothers were
7:59
Speaker 1: there and they're having some fun on computers in this
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Speaker 1: internet cafe and they're playing their favorite computer games. So
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Speaker 1: the boys were thirteen and eight years old. They were
8:11
Speaker 1: sitting next to each other and they began playing the
8:13
Speaker 1: games and you know, their afternoon of excitement, right. And
8:18
Speaker 1: as they were playing the game, they noticed that there
8:20
Speaker 1: was another boy kind of peering over their shoulder. Now
8:23
Speaker 1: the boy was about their age, and he was kind
8:25
Speaker 1: of watching them play their games rather intensely. The three
8:29
Speaker 1: began striking up a conversation moments later, and they were
8:32
Speaker 1: talking about the games that they were playing. And soon
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Speaker 1: the third boy began telling these two about a friend
8:38
Speaker 1: of his who he was on his way to go see. Now,
8:41
Speaker 1: he told them how his friend had this amazing computer
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Speaker 1: for games and it was head over heels better than
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Speaker 1: the ones in these internet cafes. So not only was
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Speaker 1: this computer head over heels better than these other computers,
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Speaker 1: but it also had a giant library of games to
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Speaker 1: go with it so large you can pretty much play
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Speaker 1: any game you wanted. Basically, it's like you play on
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Speaker 1: this awesome game. Whatever game like.
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Speaker 2: Just rocks nice.
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Speaker 1: So the boys eyes of course glinted as their thoughts
9:11
Speaker 1: started churning. You know, the idea of this incredible computer.
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Speaker 1: How amazing you you play these games on it? And
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Speaker 1: they're just like, you know, fuck, yeah, this sounds awesome.
9:19
Speaker 1: And so, as the third boy continued, he actually offered
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Speaker 1: his two newfound friends to come with him to this
9:24
Speaker 1: place to play some of the games on set computer.
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Speaker 2: With his friend and the fact that he's like a
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Speaker 2: young boy too, it's probably made them feel kind of comfortable.
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Speaker 1: Hey, oh yeah, no red flags or anything. Yeah, it's like,
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Speaker 1: let's go play right with another another kid my age
9:38
Speaker 1: sort of thing. So yeah, no questions asked. They're like, oh,
9:41
Speaker 1: this is cool. So yeah, they were like, just let's
9:45
Speaker 1: go join it. So all three of them, you know,
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Speaker 1: left the Internet cafe and they marched off and they
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Speaker 1: were headed off in the direction to this awesome computer
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Speaker 1: with the games.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, excited as heck, I'm sure.
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Speaker 1: Oh, through and through it was off to a nearby
9:59
Speaker 1: apartment building wasn't too far away. They entered through the
10:02
Speaker 1: main doors and all three began climbing flights of stairs
10:05
Speaker 1: until they reached the seventh level. There, they entered one
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Speaker 1: of the units of the building and it was very
10:11
Speaker 1: dimly lit inside, and here they didn't find the superior
10:15
Speaker 1: gaming computer. That they were promised. Instead, they were met
10:19
Speaker 1: by a strange man, a man that had just trapped
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Speaker 1: these boys by means of manipulating another boy.
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Speaker 2: Oh geez, a man.
10:28
Speaker 1: Who would later earn the very eerie nickname mister Swirl.
10:33
Speaker 2: Oh that sounds disturbing, yep.
10:36
Speaker 1: So in two thousand and four, German authorities would be
10:39
Speaker 1: the first to learn about this very disturbing man one
10:43
Speaker 1: evening as they were searching through some items in an old,
10:46
Speaker 1: abandoned storage unit. Now, as they sifted through the items within,
10:49
Speaker 1: it's not exactly clear what the authorities were looking for,
10:52
Speaker 1: but regardless of that, they were soon about to find
10:55
Speaker 1: something extremely disturbing. Beneath the layers forgotten i junk, garbage,
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Speaker 1: debris and appliances, they came across an old hard drive. Now,
11:07
Speaker 1: whether it was sheer, curiosity or something else that drove
11:10
Speaker 1: them to see what was on the hard drive is
11:13
Speaker 1: unknown and rather irrelevant, honestly, But when they did plug
11:17
Speaker 1: it into a computer and opened up the files, they
11:20
Speaker 1: were horrified with its contents. There were hundreds of photos
11:26
Speaker 1: showcasing photos from around the world, traveling pictures of places, landscapes, food,
11:30
Speaker 1: and amongst them, photos of child.
11:34
Speaker 2: Pornography, oh just randomly in the mix.
11:37
Speaker 1: Yes, So if you've made it this far and you're
11:40
Speaker 1: unsure on if you can carry on, this is as
11:43
Speaker 1: graphic as we go, just stating child pornography. That's as
11:47
Speaker 1: graphic as we talk.
11:48
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, I think I can carry on then, Okay
11:52
Speaker 2: for now.
11:53
Speaker 1: So while I will not get into these details and
11:55
Speaker 1: these events that were unfolding with these children being harmed
11:58
Speaker 1: in the photos, it was certain that multiple victims were
12:01
Speaker 1: being abused and taking taken advantage of, including three young
12:06
Speaker 1: boys that appeared to be in a very dimly lit apartment,
12:09
Speaker 1: the very three that we were talking about earlier.
12:11
Speaker 2: Oh Man.
12:13
Speaker 1: However, out of all these images on the hard drive,
12:17
Speaker 1: there was one detail in some images that stood out.
12:20
Speaker 1: There was a man who seemed to pose proudly with
12:23
Speaker 1: the children, as if showcasing what he was doing. All
12:28
Speaker 1: the above being before, during, and after. But while he
12:33
Speaker 1: seemed to be boasting very proudly of his actions, he
12:37
Speaker 1: also took care to cover his identity the images that
12:41
Speaker 1: were shown of him and his victims. He had taken
12:44
Speaker 1: a filter to his own face, a swirl effect, much
12:47
Speaker 1: like you see on Snapchat or Instagram or anything.
12:51
Speaker 2: Yeah.
12:52
Speaker 1: Now the swirl swirls the pixels of the face into
12:56
Speaker 1: an unrecognizable spiral, giving him the nickname mister Swirl.
13:01
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I don't know what it was going to
13:04
Speaker 2: exactly be. But that's like disturbing. I mean, it is
13:07
Speaker 2: all of it's disturbing.
13:08
Speaker 1: Yes, it's even more particularly disturbing when you actually look
13:12
Speaker 1: at the images of this mister Swirl.
13:15
Speaker 2: Okay, but is there was there other like in within
13:18
Speaker 2: the travel pictures his face normal, No, they're all just swirly.
13:23
Speaker 1: The travel pictures were just kind of like landscape, foods,
13:26
Speaker 1: just general pictures of things. He's behind the camera and
13:30
Speaker 1: then when there it is involving the children and he
13:33
Speaker 1: is in them, his face his swirled.
13:35
Speaker 2: What the shit? Now?
13:37
Speaker 1: One detail he would often do with these swirl pictures
13:40
Speaker 1: is the center of the swirl. This is one eye,
13:43
Speaker 1: So you get this swirl right into the center of
13:46
Speaker 1: like his pupil, and it's just it's honestly kind of
13:49
Speaker 1: fucked up.
13:49
Speaker 2: That's really fucked it is, huh.
13:52
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it's like it's it's just
13:54
Speaker 1: a swirl, but knowing what's behind that swirl and what
13:58
Speaker 1: this person is.
13:59
Speaker 2: Capable of evil predator.
14:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well complete evil predator like this guy. I'm
14:05
Speaker 1: telling you now, this guy is the fucking lowest of
14:07
Speaker 1: the fucking low, Like fuck this guy.
14:12
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I don't think any of us. You need
14:13
Speaker 2: to finish this to.
14:14
Speaker 1: Know that, no, no guaranteed. So this was something different
14:20
Speaker 1: than most predators though, him actually posing in the photos, yeah, actively,
14:26
Speaker 1: like he's actually trying to tie these images in these
14:30
Speaker 1: events to himself without being discovered, if that makes any sense.
14:37
Speaker 1: It's almost like he's flexing or provoking authorities like, go ahead,
14:41
Speaker 1: try and figure out who I am.
14:42
Speaker 2: Well, and then it's honestly, to my thought is it's
14:46
Speaker 2: literally just for him, because I think a lot of
14:48
Speaker 2: times people are doing this sort of disturbing thing to
14:53
Speaker 2: profit or to sell or whatever. But like, if he's
14:56
Speaker 2: in there with this swirly face, I feel like it's
14:58
Speaker 2: almost just for him.
15:01
Speaker 1: We'll touch on that here in a little bit. Okay,
15:04
Speaker 1: So authorities who found this, of course, began working trying
15:07
Speaker 1: to identify this man right away because this is not
15:10
Speaker 1: fucking cool, of course, and it quickly became apparent to
15:13
Speaker 1: them that trying to decipher this world photographs to find
15:15
Speaker 1: a mysterious individual behind them and who's who their identity
15:20
Speaker 1: was was not going to be an easy task. So
15:23
Speaker 1: soon inner Pol would find themselves involved in the investigation. Yeah,
15:28
Speaker 1: so we all know what INTERPOL is, right, you know,
15:30
Speaker 1: the world renowned worldwide organization for crime unit or whatever.
15:37
Speaker 1: They would join the investigation investigation that would later be
15:41
Speaker 1: named Operation Visco. Since so many photographs were found from
15:46
Speaker 1: around the world on this hard drive, now it only
15:49
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense that they're part of it, really,
15:51
Speaker 1: because it's all around the world sort of thing. So
15:53
Speaker 1: they began digging into other details of the photos, such
15:56
Speaker 1: as geographical locations, landmarks, you know, tangible details in the photographs,
16:01
Speaker 1: maybe writings on signs, street signs, that sort of stuff, food,
16:05
Speaker 1: who knows, right, And by doing this, they were able
16:08
Speaker 1: to identify some of the areas that the photographs were
16:11
Speaker 1: actually taken in, and thus identifying possible areas where this
16:16
Speaker 1: individual was operating out of. Okay, So some of the
16:20
Speaker 1: locations were Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, and potentially South Korea, and
16:28
Speaker 1: Operation VIKO actually gets its name from Vietnam and Cambodia.
16:33
Speaker 1: So combining the to vicos.
16:35
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. I was really curious what I was like,
16:38
Speaker 2: I'll just wag ask.
16:40
Speaker 1: After Yeah, so there you go. It was actually a
16:42
Speaker 1: combination of those, which were two heavy areas that he
16:44
Speaker 1: was operating in. Okay, Now, though this was like a
16:48
Speaker 1: really good discovery on the investigator's part, actually narrowing down
16:52
Speaker 1: these areas that these folks were taken in the relevations
16:56
Speaker 1: didn't exactly make their job any easier by any means,
16:59
Speaker 1: if any thing. It really just opened the can of worms.
17:03
Speaker 1: The man was seemingly going from country to country and
17:06
Speaker 1: never staying long enough to get caught anywhere, and always
17:08
Speaker 1: leaving authorities behind. So there are several countries that he
17:12
Speaker 1: could possibly be in, countries that he was in, and
17:15
Speaker 1: where could he be?
17:16
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, that would make it way harder. And that's
17:19
Speaker 2: also very interesting. Hey yeah, that they're just going all
17:23
Speaker 2: over the place like that.
17:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean like he at this point, because
17:26
Speaker 1: he's gone to multiple countries, he could literally be anyone.
17:29
Speaker 1: He could literally be anywhere.
17:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was in the world basically.
17:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've said it two times already in the last
17:36
Speaker 1: ten seconds. Literally, but it's literally a needle in a haystack.
17:40
Speaker 1: Search for the authorities. They're searching for an unknown individual
17:44
Speaker 1: somewhere in the world. Wow, yeah, narrow that shit down.
17:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, I mean, it's hard enough to find some
17:52
Speaker 2: one individual saying a big ass city, let alone. Yeah,
17:57
Speaker 2: I that is so daunting. I couldn't even imagine.
17:59
Speaker 1: Half the time. It's hard enough for me to find
18:01
Speaker 1: my own dog in the backyard, like where the fuck
18:02
Speaker 1: did she go? And they have to find someone in
18:04
Speaker 1: the world. Yeah, someone they don't know. It baffles me.
18:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have really no identification whatsoever.
18:12
Speaker 1: Zero. Yeah, so it of course gonna be hard. But however,
18:17
Speaker 1: this wasn't going to be the only evidence authorities would
18:20
Speaker 1: have to work with, because mister swirl soon would deliver
18:27
Speaker 1: more photographs. Okay, so the same swirling faced photographs would
18:37
Speaker 1: begin popping up online in dark corners of the Internet.
18:40
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, which ultimately proved the worst case scenario to authorities.
18:44
Speaker 2: He's still doing it, He's still.
18:46
Speaker 1: Active, because I mean, they found this old hard drive.
18:49
Speaker 1: It could just be Hey, someone who did this. Maybe
18:52
Speaker 1: it's like a year spree or something.
18:54
Speaker 2: Right way back in the day. Hopefully they're like don't
18:57
Speaker 2: exist anymore.
18:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're done whatever. Yeah, heinous still but at least
19:02
Speaker 1: it's not continuing. But no, in this case, it's still continuing.
19:07
Speaker 1: So the photos were circulating through forums with known predatory
19:10
Speaker 1: predatory individuals of the like of mister Swirl and posing
19:16
Speaker 1: with of course his victims now doing so. Posing with
19:20
Speaker 1: one's victims being in the photos was kind of almost
19:24
Speaker 1: a badge of honor because generally speaking, predators don't want
19:28
Speaker 1: to be in the photos because they don't want to
19:29
Speaker 1: be caught, they don't want to be seen if the
19:31
Speaker 1: photos are found, it's like, hey, proove, I took those,
19:33
Speaker 1: good luck, right, but he's actually posing with them, and
19:36
Speaker 1: it was kind of like a badge of honor sort
19:38
Speaker 1: of situation in these forums, and he was becoming somewhat
19:42
Speaker 1: of a celebrity in these twisted groups.
19:44
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I hate the term too, badge of honor
19:48
Speaker 2: for this shit. That's so this is just that's just wrong.
19:51
Speaker 1: I know. That's why I said almost a badge.
19:53
Speaker 2: Of how No, I'm not blaming you at all, because
19:55
Speaker 2: it's exact like what he's doing. You know, he's proud
19:59
Speaker 2: of this, Yeah, I know, And that's that's just disgusting.
20:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, like disgusting, isn't even the word that being begins
20:05
Speaker 1: to portray how I feel about this, But they do
20:09
Speaker 1: theorize that in this sort of situation with him kind
20:11
Speaker 1: of being a little bit more prolific and like held
20:14
Speaker 1: at a higher standard and higher tier, and all these
20:17
Speaker 1: gross ass creepy individuals liking what he's doing. Now as
20:21
Speaker 1: this quote badge of honor, it only kind of opened
20:24
Speaker 1: the world for him to access their libraries of what
20:27
Speaker 1: they have as well, because people are holding him to
20:30
Speaker 1: a high standard. Now it's like, oh, look what I did,
20:32
Speaker 1: Look what I've got, Here's what I've purchased or whatever. Right,
20:36
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, yeah, kind of making him a quasi
20:39
Speaker 1: celebrity in this world.
20:42
Speaker 2: Huh.
20:43
Speaker 1: So, by now, with the accumulation of photos from the
20:47
Speaker 1: hard drive and photos that were brought up online, authorities
20:50
Speaker 1: had nearly three hundred photos depicting mister Swirl and his
20:55
Speaker 1: horrible acts. So there was approximately hundred photos in that
20:59
Speaker 1: hard drive. All all of them were of these type
21:03
Speaker 1: of photos. Some of them were, like I said, landscapes
21:06
Speaker 1: or travel photos. Right now, they had approximately three hundred
21:09
Speaker 1: photos of this particular type of apps.
21:12
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, okay, and I just have to
21:15
Speaker 2: I feel like just sitting here being the investigators that
21:18
Speaker 2: have to pretend to be nasty motherfuckers, And I mean,
21:24
Speaker 2: they're so necessary and they're like heroes, but it's like,
21:27
Speaker 2: can you imagine that.
21:28
Speaker 1: Being your jaw pay having to go in these chat rooms.
21:31
Speaker 2: And talk to them and try to get information, and
21:35
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I just feel like that would be
21:37
Speaker 2: made maybe one of the worst jobs in the sense though,
21:41
Speaker 2: what you're having to see, but not in the sense
21:44
Speaker 2: that you're able to help and hopefully stop.
21:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, No, It's a gut wrenching situation. It's much
21:50
Speaker 1: similar to like, say, for example, firefighters, you have to
21:54
Speaker 1: run into a burning building to save a life. These
21:57
Speaker 1: people are metaphorically doing the same.
21:59
Speaker 2: Thing, but the visuals that they're having to witness on
22:03
Speaker 2: a daily basis, I can only imagine how brutal that
22:06
Speaker 2: would be.
22:08
Speaker 1: So as dark as this was the case of mister Swirl,
22:14
Speaker 1: there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Okay,
22:18
Speaker 1: that's good, So the ever so cocky mister Swirl slipped up.
22:23
Speaker 2: Good what the fuck did he do?
22:25
Speaker 1: He forgot to hide his IP address when posting the
22:29
Speaker 1: photos to the online forums. Oh my gosh, which gave
22:33
Speaker 1: the authorities the exact city he was operating over.
22:36
Speaker 2: Well.
22:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they surmise that this disgusting excuse for a
22:43
Speaker 1: human to put into bed to least of words, I
22:45
Speaker 1: could has been flying to other countries to take advantage
22:49
Speaker 1: of their lesser laws to abuse children and then fly
22:52
Speaker 1: back home to Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada and share his
22:56
Speaker 1: material via the Internet.
22:58
Speaker 2: The fact that this guy Canadian, its just disturbs me
23:02
Speaker 2: even more. But also I'm glad that he was such
23:04
Speaker 2: an idiot. But what an idiot? Yeah, Like, I'm so
23:08
Speaker 2: glad he kind of forgot to take that off. But
23:10
Speaker 2: like you're stupid, Yeah, real stupid.
23:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's stupid for a lot of reasons, but yeah,
23:16
Speaker 1: many reasons.
23:17
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:19
Speaker 1: So, while they didn't know who he was, just yet,
23:21
Speaker 1: narrowing down their search to Vancouver was immense. It's no
23:25
Speaker 1: longer a worldwide search, it's a city search.
23:28
Speaker 2: I mean it's a big ass city, but that's whole
23:31
Speaker 2: that's huge win.
23:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. So while this was going on, the team that
23:35
Speaker 1: was trying desperately with the swirl photographs to like solve
23:40
Speaker 1: that puzzle, something happened. So see the swirl pattern in
23:45
Speaker 1: these effects, I gotta go with a little bit of
23:47
Speaker 1: detail with this effect here for a second. Oh, they
23:49
Speaker 1: only alter the photos. It doesn't erase any any information.
23:55
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, seriously.
23:58
Speaker 1: So everything, every pick in this picture is still there.
24:03
Speaker 1: The swirl just changes the order it swirls the pictures.
24:08
Speaker 1: Some effects like a blur, literally like will erase ya
24:12
Speaker 1: get rid of details? The swirl does not do that.
24:15
Speaker 1: It just rearranges the pattern of the pixels to create
24:17
Speaker 1: a swirl effect.
24:18
Speaker 2: Because I've totally played with this in Phonoshop before, so
24:21
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent get what you mean. Yeah, wow,
24:25
Speaker 2: so you could swirl it back kind of.
24:28
Speaker 1: Eventually, three years after the initial discovery, the breakthrough happened.
24:33
Speaker 1: One of the individuals and the team made a connection
24:35
Speaker 1: with this effect to an editing software, the exact editing
24:40
Speaker 1: software that was used to make the swirl in the
24:43
Speaker 1: first place.
24:44
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
24:45
Speaker 1: Because if you use one swirl in one app and
24:48
Speaker 1: then another, the swirl is a different pattern. So it's
24:51
Speaker 1: not going to swirl it back exactly the same Okay,
24:54
Speaker 1: so it's just mixing it the other way, you know. Okay,
24:56
Speaker 1: But if you use the exact same software and put
25:01
Speaker 1: it into that program. That's exactly what.
25:04
Speaker 2: Holy shit, I'm sorry, but that is brilliant.
25:07
Speaker 1: Yep. So this photo was taken by this individual, put
25:11
Speaker 1: into the exact same program, and the effect was applied
25:14
Speaker 1: once again, this time in reverse, and then in a
25:17
Speaker 1: matter of seconds, the face of mister Swirl was reverted
25:22
Speaker 1: right back to normal and he was revealed.
25:25
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm shocked. I don't know why, but
25:29
Speaker 2: I didn't think I didn't think about that. Holy heck,
25:33
Speaker 2: clearly he didn't either.
25:35
Speaker 1: Nope, clearly he did not. So he's an idiot for
25:39
Speaker 1: multiple reasons. Another one.
25:41
Speaker 2: Wow, thank the Lord that he's such an idiot at right.
25:45
Speaker 1: So innerpol quickly made the images of the man's face public.
25:49
Speaker 1: They're like, we need to get this guy, like stop now,
25:51
Speaker 1: we need to face out there, and by public I
25:54
Speaker 1: mean world wide public good because he's operating out of
25:59
Speaker 1: how many countries, right, So that's what they did. They
26:01
Speaker 1: made it worldwide public and spread it across new sources
26:04
Speaker 1: around the world and the Internet alike. The hunt for
26:07
Speaker 1: mister Swirl was on, and it only took a mere
26:12
Speaker 1: few hours before his identity was discovered.
26:14
Speaker 2: Really okay, so did he get discovered before he even
26:17
Speaker 2: realized that his face was all over the place. We'll
26:20
Speaker 2: get to that, Okay, Sorry, I'm invested in this now.
26:25
Speaker 1: So, this so called mister Swirl was a thirty two
26:27
Speaker 1: year old man by the name of Christopher Paul Neil
26:31
Speaker 1: who was born in nineteen seventy five in North Vancouver. Now,
26:35
Speaker 1: Christopher was an English teacher for kids, no shit, He
26:41
Speaker 1: was traveling around the world to countries the one specifically
26:45
Speaker 1: identified in the case as a teacher while staying there,
26:50
Speaker 1: so likely meaning some of the children who were his victims. Wow,
26:54
Speaker 1: were his students.
26:56
Speaker 2: That I hate that? Holy what a piece of Yeah.
27:01
Speaker 1: Students that he would have, you know, students that would
27:03
Speaker 1: have trusted him and that he betrayed that trust.
27:06
Speaker 2: Wow.
27:08
Speaker 1: So though Christopher was identified, they didn't have him just yet.
27:12
Speaker 1: Authorities learned that he was currently working in South Korea
27:15
Speaker 1: as a teacher and quickly sent the authorities knocking at
27:18
Speaker 1: his door there. But when they got there, he was already.
27:22
Speaker 2: Gone running for his life right right.
27:26
Speaker 1: Because of the publications. Like I said, this was worldwide
27:28
Speaker 1: news and when he was identified, you bet that was
27:30
Speaker 1: their real fucking fast too. Yeah, So his identity was
27:34
Speaker 1: discovered he saw it on TV and he bolted. Now,
27:39
Speaker 1: a photograph from an airport security soon showed that he
27:43
Speaker 1: had fled the country and was now residing somewhere within Thailand.
27:47
Speaker 2: Okay.
27:48
Speaker 1: Weeks began passing and some sightings of people that looked
27:52
Speaker 1: like Christopher were reported. Nothing was confirmed, but a few
27:57
Speaker 1: weeks had passed, and eventually, on October nineteenth, thousand and seven,
28:01
Speaker 1: ty police located by means of transportation on a mobile
28:05
Speaker 1: phone Christopher.
28:08
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, right on, they were on this.
28:11
Speaker 1: They were. So they knocked on the door to where
28:14
Speaker 1: the phone had traced to and when the door opened up,
28:17
Speaker 1: there stood Christopher and he was quickly arrested.
28:20
Speaker 2: Good. I mean it's not surprising that he couldn't go
28:23
Speaker 2: far really.
28:24
Speaker 1: I mean, the world was after him.
28:26
Speaker 2: Well, and he's like he would have screwed up, like
28:28
Speaker 2: he's he doesn't seem like he thinks steps ahead kind
28:32
Speaker 2: of thing.
28:33
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. Yeah. Now, I did want
28:36
Speaker 1: to touch briefly on one thing, because now he has
28:38
Speaker 1: caught kind of the investigation is mostly over. It's now
28:43
Speaker 1: prosecution type stage, and all the evidence and stuff. He
28:47
Speaker 1: never did technically forget his IP address, when he posted
28:53
Speaker 1: that he had posted it from his brother's computer. He
29:00
Speaker 1: didn't use his own personal stuff, He didn't bother to
29:03
Speaker 1: clear it because he posted it from his brother's computer.
29:06
Speaker 1: What an asshole, right, So he was essentially if the
29:10
Speaker 1: target was coming in on him, hoping that it would
29:12
Speaker 1: have been framed on his brother.
29:14
Speaker 2: Seriously, Hey correct, whoa yeah? Could this guy get any
29:18
Speaker 2: more scum?
29:19
Speaker 1: Nope? Like I said, he is the lowest low fuck
29:23
Speaker 1: this guy.
29:24
Speaker 2: No kidding, Yeah, I mean nothing would even surprise me
29:27
Speaker 2: anymore about this guy at this point. Well, is there
29:31
Speaker 2: more shit?
29:31
Speaker 1: We'll get there.
29:32
Speaker 2: Oh cool.
29:33
Speaker 1: So, to start with, he was being tried in Thailand
29:35
Speaker 1: for assault on the three young boys in the internet cafe,
29:38
Speaker 1: which was the only crime they could actually prove took
29:41
Speaker 1: place in their country.
29:42
Speaker 2: Oh okay.
29:43
Speaker 1: So his trial took place later that summer, and on
29:46
Speaker 1: August fifteenth of two thousand and eight, he was sentenced
29:48
Speaker 1: to thirty nine months in prison and a seventeen hundred
29:52
Speaker 1: dollars Fine.
29:54
Speaker 2: Oh that's not enough.
29:55
Speaker 1: Yeah at all? No, And not only that, his stay
29:59
Speaker 1: was his stay behind bars was halved after he later
30:03
Speaker 1: admitted to his crimes.
30:05
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, you would almost advantage to be more yeap.
30:08
Speaker 1: It was then extended after that, after he was also
30:12
Speaker 1: found guilty of molesting yet another child.
30:16
Speaker 2: Keep it extended for life? Right?
30:18
Speaker 1: Nope. After only five years of incarceration in Thailand, on
30:22
Speaker 1: September twenty ninth, twenty twelve, Christopher was released and was
30:26
Speaker 1: sent back to Canada. Why now? As he flew back home,
30:31
Speaker 1: I'll explain why here. In a moment, he came to
30:34
Speaker 1: a stop and stepped out of the airplane, and in
30:37
Speaker 1: that exact moment, he was greeted by an entourage of
30:40
Speaker 1: police who were anxiously waiting his arrival on Canadian soil
30:43
Speaker 1: so they could arrest him in Canada.
30:46
Speaker 2: Okay, good. I wonder if he was expecting that.
30:49
Speaker 1: I'm assuming not I probably was, if I'm being honest. Okay. Yeah. So,
30:55
Speaker 1: while this is so awesome that he's been sentenced in
30:57
Speaker 1: Thailand and would now face the gabble in Canadian courtrooms,
31:01
Speaker 1: I wish I could say I was happy with how
31:03
Speaker 1: it played out, But as we discussed so very many
31:08
Speaker 1: times before in this podcast, the justice system is extremely
31:12
Speaker 1: flawed in so many ways, and in this case specifically,
31:17
Speaker 1: I believe the world was let down.
31:19
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, because there's no way that this person
31:21
Speaker 2: should be should be ever walking around.
31:24
Speaker 1: Well, we'll get we'll get to that, Okay. So the
31:29
Speaker 1: initial plan for prosecution of Christopher was each country will
31:33
Speaker 1: get their turn to bring them to justice, right on.
31:36
Speaker 2: I like that.
31:37
Speaker 1: So starting with Thailand where he was arrested, right bring
31:39
Speaker 1: them to Canadian soil, he'll get arrested, get tried, do
31:42
Speaker 1: jail time, Send him to the next country, get arrested,
31:45
Speaker 1: get tried, get jail time. Basically, so on and so
31:50
Speaker 1: on until he lives out his life kept behind bars. Basically,
31:55
Speaker 1: what like.
31:56
Speaker 2: Oh, hearing about this sort of justice system, Like it
31:59
Speaker 2: just seems like a waste of resources. I get that
32:01
Speaker 2: every country kind of wants their bit, but just lock
32:05
Speaker 2: them up in one place he just stays there. Is
32:08
Speaker 2: that me being evil? It's just because why we're flying
32:12
Speaker 2: him all over the place, like he did something really bad,
32:14
Speaker 2: Just lock him up and then he just kind of
32:16
Speaker 2: stays there.
32:18
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying, But at the same time,
32:20
Speaker 1: it's like he didn't commit the crime in Canada.
32:23
Speaker 2: Well, what he did in Thailand should have been life.
32:26
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I think he Almos should have stayed
32:28
Speaker 2: there forever.
32:29
Speaker 1: I agree, okay, but I don't know the laws and
32:34
Speaker 1: legislation in Thailand though, right, I know. But anyways, handing
32:39
Speaker 1: off from country to country, That of course, is not
32:41
Speaker 1: how it all played out. On October third, twenty twelve,
32:45
Speaker 1: not even a week after he was arrested on Canadian soil,
32:48
Speaker 1: Christopher got to walk free. What on the condition if
32:56
Speaker 1: he agreed on some basic rules. He was to never
32:59
Speaker 1: own a vice that connected to the Internet again, and
33:02
Speaker 1: that he would stay away from parks, schools, playgrounds and
33:05
Speaker 1: register as a sex offender.
33:06
Speaker 2: Wow wow, yeah.
33:09
Speaker 1: So, not even a week after he's arrested in Canada,
33:11
Speaker 1: they're letting him walk fucking walk.
33:15
Speaker 2: That is just whacked.
33:19
Speaker 1: Yes, Now, technically that's because most of the crimes he
33:24
Speaker 1: committed were not in Canadian soil.
33:26
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking. Did
33:28
Speaker 2: he do any of this? Oh okay, that's.
33:32
Speaker 1: Okay, shared the photographs in Canada, that's it. That is
33:36
Speaker 1: something though, that is But yet they still let him
33:39
Speaker 1: walk a week later, and it's like, you can't you
33:40
Speaker 1: can't have a phoneo computer, and you're a sex offender. Now, yeah,
33:45
Speaker 1: that's not cool in my opinion. No, of course Christopher agreed.
33:49
Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, okay, I'll agree to that, and so
33:52
Speaker 1: of course he agreed, and of course he reoffended.
33:56
Speaker 2: Oh man, that is just so brutal. That is so disgusting.
34:01
Speaker 1: Oh I am so fucking pissed over this. Yeah, you
34:03
Speaker 1: have no idea. Ten months later, Oh.
34:06
Speaker 2: My gosh, like this is I'm just pissed.
34:09
Speaker 1: On August second, twenty thirteen, Christopher was arrested in his
34:13
Speaker 1: home for breach of agreement. He was found with a
34:16
Speaker 1: phone and a laptop in his possession. Now, on those devices,
34:23
Speaker 1: he was found with child pornogas.
34:26
Speaker 2: Does he really?
34:26
Speaker 1: Yeah?
34:27
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not fucking surprising, though it's not.
34:30
Speaker 1: He was found with twenty five images, to be exact,
34:32
Speaker 1: two of which included images of him in his signature like.
34:35
Speaker 2: He shook, like he did it again.
34:38
Speaker 1: I'm assuming though I don't know. I'm assuming these are
34:41
Speaker 1: old photographs I mean, but new to authorities, because I
34:46
Speaker 1: can't imagine he would reply the same swirl filter like
34:50
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, but but like.
34:52
Speaker 2: Who knows what he was actually doing in those ten months. Yeah,
34:56
Speaker 2: he totally could have been committing these crimes, not just
35:00
Speaker 2: like having them, but like doing them again very much.
35:03
Speaker 2: So oh that is just heartbreaking, disgusting.
35:08
Speaker 1: So Christopher had gotten these devices almost immediately after he
35:12
Speaker 1: was released after agreeing to never having them right, and
35:17
Speaker 1: was using these devices to access his previous creepy corners
35:21
Speaker 1: of the Internet. He was messaging other individuals and presumably
35:25
Speaker 1: sharing images back and forth. In one chat log, he
35:28
Speaker 1: was found to be talking with an individual and was
35:31
Speaker 1: quoted saying, quote the swirl liveth still the hatred.
35:38
Speaker 2: My blood is boiling.
35:39
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
35:41
Speaker 2: And the thing is is this motherfucker was probably just
35:44
Speaker 2: laughing his ass off, like I like, he got away
35:47
Speaker 2: with this. Yep, Oh my gosh. I ah, okay.
35:52
Speaker 1: I know I'm right there with this.
35:54
Speaker 2: This is unreal.
35:55
Speaker 1: I am right there with you. And I can't believe
35:57
Speaker 1: it took me this long to find this fucking case
36:00
Speaker 1: because this guy is he lives an eight hour driveway.
36:03
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm surprised that I had never heard of
36:05
Speaker 2: him either.
36:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild. So it was also found that Christopher
36:09
Speaker 1: had now been shown how to access the deep web. Now,
36:13
Speaker 1: the deep web is a portion of the Internet that
36:15
Speaker 1: is hidden behind kind of like closed doors. You kind
36:18
Speaker 1: of almost have to be like a quasi hacker to
36:20
Speaker 1: get in there. It's where one can move untraced and
36:24
Speaker 1: access back doors and websites dangerous, very creepy, dark shit.
36:33
Speaker 1: He can basically move across the Internet untraced now. He
36:40
Speaker 1: pleaded guilty in October of the same year to child pornography,
36:44
Speaker 1: and his sentencing occurred on May sixth of twenty fourteen,
36:47
Speaker 1: at which time he received a prison sentence of three
36:51
Speaker 1: months plus three years of probation for breach of conditions,
36:55
Speaker 1: namely possessing devices capable of accessing the Internet, to which
37:00
Speaker 1: on December twenty fifteen, Christopher would be sentenced to a
37:04
Speaker 1: total of a mind blowing five and a half years
37:08
Speaker 1: in prison by a British Columbia court. Wow, a time
37:13
Speaker 1: that would later be reduced because of time served to
37:16
Speaker 1: fifteen months.
37:19
Speaker 2: That is just so disappointing.
37:21
Speaker 1: He was subsequently released on March twenty seventeen and is
37:25
Speaker 1: currently living in Vancouver with a court ordered restriction no
37:30
Speaker 1: different than before. No devices. You're a registered defender and
37:34
Speaker 1: you got to stay away from playgrounds and schools and stuff.
37:38
Speaker 2: Cool.
37:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same rules that he agreed to before and
37:42
Speaker 1: broke immediately after only this time, now he can move
37:45
Speaker 1: on the Internet untraced via the dark Web.
37:48
Speaker 2: Yep. That's so disturbing and so scary and makes me
37:52
Speaker 2: literally never want to go back to Vancouverever for some reason.
37:55
Speaker 2: Fair enough, Oh, that is so sad.
37:59
Speaker 1: It's so fucked up. Ultimately, Christopher aka mister Swirl is
38:06
Speaker 1: living as a freeman after committing these absolutely horrific acts
38:12
Speaker 1: on children and proving that he did not want to
38:17
Speaker 1: He could not be reformed, did not want to be reformed,
38:20
Speaker 1: though now he swears he is, but he was let
38:25
Speaker 1: go on the conditions he was going to be reformed,
38:27
Speaker 1: and he just immediately the Swirl liveth on or whatever
38:31
Speaker 1: the fuck he said.
38:33
Speaker 2: Well, and oh my gosh, because he's probably still doing something.
38:38
Speaker 1: Probably he's a true human piece of fucking trash. I
38:42
Speaker 1: hope he listens to this episode right now and he
38:44
Speaker 1: hears me say that he's a piece of shit.
38:47
Speaker 2: Well yeah, because yeah, I literally even no words. The
38:53
Speaker 2: fact that he's just roaming the streets like it almost
38:57
Speaker 2: seems like this is a bad dream. That is so
39:00
Speaker 2: disturbing and scary. Yeah, holy shit, Okay.
39:07
Speaker 1: That's the story of mister Squirrel.
39:10
Speaker 2: Wow. I mean, what kind of job or anything could
39:13
Speaker 2: you even get after that having this on your record.
39:17
Speaker 1: I don't know.
39:20
Speaker 2: Is he of the same name and everything? I don't know,
39:23
Speaker 2: because well, he's probably changed it, to be.
39:25
Speaker 1: Honest, probably by now. Yeah. Wow, But he is a
39:29
Speaker 1: registered sex offender, whether he has changed his name or not.
39:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even sure if registered sex offenders can
39:35
Speaker 2: change names or work.
39:37
Speaker 1: That might actually be part of it. I don't know
39:39
Speaker 1: if you can. Holy heck, are you good? No? I'm
39:46
Speaker 1: not actually, I'm honestly right there with you. It baffles
39:52
Speaker 1: me that the Canadian government let him do that and
39:57
Speaker 1: let him get away twice.
39:58
Speaker 2: They had one job and they like failed it twice.
40:01
Speaker 1: They let a predator go mm hmm. They gave him
40:06
Speaker 1: a slap on the wrist after he did all those
40:09
Speaker 1: horrific things. Yep, and then he did it again and
40:14
Speaker 1: they just gave him a slap on the wrist again.
40:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, gosh, because the thing is there, there
40:21
Speaker 2: has to be things like is he I don't know.
40:27
Speaker 2: They have to be monitoring this somehow right going forward
40:30
Speaker 2: for the rest of his life. But then there's probably
40:33
Speaker 2: so much opportunity for him to to get away with
40:37
Speaker 2: things without them knowing.
40:38
Speaker 1: Oh definitely.
40:40
Speaker 2: So if that's the case, then he can't be trusted
40:44
Speaker 2: and he just something needs to happen that he's not
40:48
Speaker 2: you know, like hot and able to harm people.
40:51
Speaker 1: He needs locked up. Yeah, he needs to be locked
40:53
Speaker 1: up for fucking life.
40:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if they cannot guarantee that he's you know,
40:59
Speaker 2: good and like has changed, which, how do you even
41:02
Speaker 2: do that? Like, there's no way that this person should
41:05
Speaker 2: be walking around the streets because there's no way.
41:07
Speaker 1: He could one hundred percent be doing the same thing
41:10
Speaker 1: to kids out there right.
41:11
Speaker 2: Now because kids are everywhere. They've limited where he can
41:14
Speaker 2: go and stuff. But like kids are everywhere. You go
41:17
Speaker 2: to the grocery store, you go to like the mall
41:19
Speaker 2: or whatever, anywhere you're gonna go. Yeah, you go to
41:22
Speaker 2: the beach, like anywhere. Yep, Okay, this is fucked. I know.
41:29
Speaker 1: I can see you writhing in your seat right now.
41:31
Speaker 2: I know. I'm just like really angry about this case.
41:34
Speaker 2: My chest is probably blotchy. I'm so mad.
41:37
Speaker 1: There's very few things that make me not proud to
41:42
Speaker 1: be Canadian. This is one of the things that really
41:46
Speaker 1: makes me disgusted with being Canadian. Yeah, because I can't
41:52
Speaker 1: believe our government let that happen.
41:55
Speaker 2: Well, I know, and you know, it'd be interesting because
41:57
Speaker 2: sometimes I feel like justice system Canada is pretty soft.
42:01
Speaker 2: And I've said this before, but I don't know if
42:03
Speaker 2: it's softer than other areas or what. It'd be interesting
42:08
Speaker 2: to know that, you know, or could this. I mean,
42:11
Speaker 2: Thailand did let him go too, right, but he.
42:14
Speaker 1: At least served five years there, But.
42:16
Speaker 2: He did serve some time here, but not even five years,
42:19
Speaker 2: was it.
42:19
Speaker 1: No, he was sentenced to five but he served fifteen
42:22
Speaker 1: months with time served.
42:23
Speaker 2: Huh wow, So I.
42:25
Speaker 1: Guess pre prosecution. Maybe he was locked up for a while,
42:30
Speaker 1: but even still he walked free for half of that
42:32
Speaker 1: anyways too, because he he reoffended and everything.
42:35
Speaker 2: Like you know, sometimes I understand, like I get there's
42:39
Speaker 2: so many people out there that believe in rehabilitation, and
42:41
Speaker 2: I totally think in some cases it can work. But
42:44
Speaker 2: then the fact if you gave someone the opportunity to
42:48
Speaker 2: be rehabilitated and then they fucked up again, it's like done,
42:52
Speaker 2: like there's no more.
42:53
Speaker 1: It's not only that he fucked up again. He immediately
42:57
Speaker 1: immediately went and got these devices, got online learn how
43:03
Speaker 1: to circumvent getting caught again and bragged the swirl Livith. Yeah,
43:09
Speaker 1: so he's not only proving that he can't be reformed,
43:13
Speaker 1: he's proving he doesn't want to be reformed. In fact,
43:16
Speaker 1: he's proud of what he's done, even after the fact
43:19
Speaker 1: I'm being caught and let go. Yeah, he's literally laughing
43:23
Speaker 1: in the face of authorities.
43:24
Speaker 2: Because how like they had that many photos to you.
43:26
Speaker 2: I think he says like two or three hundred or something.
43:28
Speaker 2: So he messed up that many times. Like he is
43:31
Speaker 2: an addiction. He like even he needs to be go
43:35
Speaker 2: in like a mental institute or something. Yeah, getting like
43:40
Speaker 2: help and like really making sure that he's can be
43:44
Speaker 2: on the streets because I question, Yeah he shouldn't be.
43:48
Speaker 1: But I mean he is in the streets right now.
43:49
Speaker 1: And God, I hope he has reformed. I so hope
43:53
Speaker 1: that he's a model citizen. I hope he's turned his
43:55
Speaker 1: life around.
43:56
Speaker 2: We can only like pray jeez. Yeah, wow, So because
44:01
Speaker 2: if he's not, like, Lord help us all. I sound
44:04
Speaker 2: very religious and in those last few sentences, didn't I.
44:09
Speaker 1: Nicole found God in this episode just like praying over here.
44:17
Speaker 2: Wow.
44:17
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sorry to bring that episode to you guys,
44:20
Speaker 1: but it's definitely one that I wanted to bring more
44:23
Speaker 1: to the forefront. If you haven't heard about it before,
44:25
Speaker 1: you have now, no.
44:27
Speaker 2: Shit, I'm surprised that I haven't heard of that. I'm shocked.
44:30
Speaker 1: Actually, I was baffled when I first learned of it.
44:33
Speaker 2: I mean I actually was okay that I haven't heard
44:35
Speaker 2: of it.
44:36
Speaker 1: Well, not so much now, I guess. Thank you guys
44:40
Speaker 1: for being here, Thank you for listening. If you're still here,
44:42
Speaker 1: you're absolutely amazing. All of our stuff is in the
44:45
Speaker 1: description below. You've heard this feel before. Patreon's there, Instagram, Facebook,
44:49
Speaker 1: you name it. It's all there, even Fearful, our other
44:53
Speaker 1: podcast with Jacko. Yeah, but I'm going to stop there.
44:55
Speaker 1: You've heard it all. You guys are awesome. What do
44:58
Speaker 1: you do. I've got a little bit of whiskey left.
45:01
Speaker 2: You got to go finish a drink.
45:03
Speaker 1: I made sure I poured a whiskey for this episode.
45:05
Speaker 2: I I didn't say anything, and I was like, okay,
45:09
Speaker 2: is that how I can judge? Now? If the episodes
45:12
Speaker 2: are real harsh, depending if you have a beer whiskey.
45:16
Speaker 1: You have to there's there's a preset what's the word
45:19
Speaker 1: I'm looking for, not a presept There's something else you
45:23
Speaker 1: got to judge first. You have to ask yourself, did
45:25
Speaker 1: Ben have a bad day? If Ben had a bad
45:28
Speaker 1: day and it's having a whiskey, then the podcast might
45:32
Speaker 1: not be a bad one. But if Ben had a
45:34
Speaker 1: good day and it's having a whiskey, the podcast episode
45:38
Speaker 1: is fucked.
45:39
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that's.
45:41
Speaker 1: Those are the standards there that you got to look for.
45:43
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, all right.
45:45
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys so much for being here. We
45:47
Speaker 1: will see you next week or talk to you next
45:49
Speaker 1: week and until.
45:50
Speaker 2: Then, Stay Wicked.
45:54
Speaker 1: That wasn't a very long, Stay Wicked.
45:56
Speaker 2: I know I'm getting shorter.
45:58
Speaker 1: Okay, give us a long one.
46:00
Speaker 2: Stay. Oh man, I'm not gonna get the pressures on,
46:04
Speaker 2: the pressures on.
46:04
Speaker 1: Stay.
46:05
Speaker 2: I can't do it.
46:07
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, i'll do it. I'll do it, Stay Wicked.
46:13
Speaker 2: That was okay, it was okay, okay.
46:15
Speaker 1: That was better than you or it was