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The Practice of Equanimity: Cultivating a Heart Big Enough to Hold Everything · Deep Transformation

• 0:00
  Dear,
• 0:01
  dear
• 0:01
  listener,
• 0:02
  hi,
• 0:02
  this
• 0:02
  is
• 0:02
  John
• 0:03
  Dupuy.
• 0:03
  I
• 0:03
  want
• 0:03
  to
• 0:04
  ask
• 0:04
  a
• 0:04
  favor
• 0:04
  of
• 0:04
  you.
• 0:05
  If
• 0:05
  you
• 0:05
  like
• 0:05
  the
• 0:06
  podcast
• 0:06
  Deep
• 0:07
  Transformation
• 0:07
  and
• 0:08
  you're
• 0:08
  getting
• 0:08
  a
• 0:08
  lot
• 0:08
  out
• 0:08
  of
• 0:08
  it,
• 0:09
  could
• 0:09
  you
• 0:09
  please
• 0:09
  help
• 0:10
  us
• 0:10
  by
• 0:10
  going
• 0:10
  to
• 0:11
  wherever
• 0:11
  you
• 0:11
  get
• 0:11
  your
• 0:12
  podcast,
• 0:12
  it's
• 0:12
  a
• 0:13
  Spotify
• 0:13
  or
• 0:13
  Apple
• 0:14
  or
• 0:14
  wherever
• 0:14
  it
• 0:15
  is,
• 0:15
  and
• 0:15
  write,
• 0:16
  write
• 0:16
  a
• 0:16
  review
• 0:16
  that
• 0:17
  would
• 0:17
  really
• 0:17
  help
• 0:17
  us
• 0:17
  to
• 0:17
  get
• 0:18
  this
• 0:18
  out.
• 0:18
  We
• 0:19
  really
• 0:19
  believe
• 0:19
  in
• 0:19
  what
• 0:19
  we're
• 0:19
  doing
• 0:20
  and
• 0:20
  we're
• 0:20
  really
• 0:21
  praying
• 0:21
  and
• 0:21
  hoping
• 0:21
  this
• 0:21
  is
• 0:22
  helping
• 0:22
  people
• 0:22
  and
• 0:22
  being
• 0:23
  part
• 0:23
  of
• 0:23
  the
• 0:23
  solution.
• 0:24
  So
• 0:24
  if
• 0:24
  you
• 0:24
  could
• 0:24
  do
• 0:24
  that,
• 0:25
  it
• 0:25
  would
• 0:25
  be
• 0:25
  greatly
• 0:26
  appreciated
• 0:27
  by
• 0:27
  Roger,
• 0:27
  myself
• 0:28
  and
• 0:28
  our
• 0:28
  team.
• 0:28
  God
• 0:29
  bless.
• 0:29
  Thank
• 0:29
  you.
• 0:30
  Welcome
• 0:31
  to
• 0:31
  part
• 0:31
  two
• 0:31
  of
• 0:31
  our
• 0:31
  conversation
• 0:32
  with
• 0:32
  Margaret
• 0:33
  Cullen,
• 0:33
  where
• 0:33
  we
• 0:33
  continue
• 0:34
  to
• 0:34
  explore
• 0:34
  the
• 0:35
  practice
• 0:35
  of
• 0:35
  equanimity
• 0:36
  as
• 0:37
  revealed
• 0:37
  in
• 0:37
  her
• 0:37
  new
• 0:38
  book,
• 0:38
  Quiet
• 0:38
  Strength.
• 0:43
  Welcome
• 0:44
  to
• 0:44
  Deep
• 0:45
  Self,
• 0:46
  Society,
• 0:47
  Spirit
• 0:47
  Life
• 0:48
  enhancing,
• 0:48
  paradigm
• 0:49
  rattling
• 0:50
  conversations
• 0:50
  with
• 0:51
  cutting
• 0:51
  edge
• 0:51
  thinkers,
• 0:52
  contemplatives
• 0:53
  and
• 0:53
  activists.
• 0:54
  With
• 0:54
  Dr.
• 0:54
  Roger
• 0:55
  Walsh
• 0:55
  and
• 0:55
  John
• 0:55
  Dupuy.
• 0:59
  I
• 0:59
  wanted
• 1:00
  to
• 1:00
  share
• 1:00
  one
• 1:00
  thing.
• 1:00
  Building
• 1:01
  on
• 1:01
  what
• 1:01
  Roger,
• 1:02
  what
• 1:02
  you
• 1:02
  said,
• 1:02
  and
• 1:02
  Margaret,
• 1:03
  what
• 1:03
  you're
• 1:03
  saying.
• 1:04
  I
• 1:04
  worked
• 1:04
  with
• 1:05
  alcoholics
• 1:05
  and
• 1:05
  addicts
• 1:06
  for
• 1:06
  a
• 1:06
  lot
• 1:06
  of
• 1:07
  years.
• 1:07
  And
• 1:07
  at
• 1:08
  one
• 1:08
  stretch,
• 1:08
  my
• 1:09
  home,
• 1:09
  big
• 1:09
  old
• 1:09
  home
• 1:10
  in
• 1:10
  southern
• 1:11
  Utah,
• 1:11
  became
• 1:11
  a
• 1:11
  treatment
• 1:12
  center
• 1:12
  for
• 1:12
  eight
• 1:12
  years.
• 1:13
  And
• 1:14
  we
• 1:14
  would
• 1:14
  meditate
• 1:15
  an
• 1:15
  hour
• 1:15
  in
• 1:15
  the
• 1:15
  morning
• 1:16
  and
• 1:16
  an
• 1:16
  hour
• 1:16
  in
• 1:17
  the
• 1:17
  afternoon
• 1:18
  with
• 1:18
  brain
• 1:19
  trainment
• 1:19
  technology.
• 1:20
  So
• 1:20
  it
• 1:20
  brought
• 1:20
  a
• 1:20
  lot
• 1:20
  of
• 1:21
  stuff
• 1:21
  up.
• 1:21
  And
• 1:21
  there's
• 1:21
  almost
• 1:23
  no
• 1:23
  addict
• 1:23
  that
• 1:24
  I
• 1:24
  worked
• 1:24
  with
• 1:24
  or
• 1:24
  alcoholic
• 1:25
  that
• 1:25
  wasn't
• 1:26
  also
• 1:26
  traumatized,
• 1:27
  that
• 1:27
  also
• 1:27
  didn't
• 1:27
  have
• 1:28
  ptsd.
• 1:29
  And
• 1:29
  this
• 1:29
  technology
• 1:30
  tends
• 1:30
  to
• 1:31
  speed
• 1:31
  the
• 1:32
  process
• 1:32
  up
• 1:32
  and
• 1:32
  the
• 1:32
  stuff
• 1:33
  comes
• 1:33
  up.
• 1:33
  So
• 1:33
  we
• 1:34
  developed
• 1:34
  a
• 1:34
  technique
• 1:35
  which
• 1:36
  is
• 1:37
  when
• 1:37
  it
• 1:37
  starts
• 1:37
  coming,
• 1:38
  instead
• 1:39
  of
• 1:39
  pushing
• 1:39
  it
• 1:39
  away,
• 1:40
  we
• 1:40
  say,
• 1:40
  welcome,
• 1:40
  teacher.
• 1:42
  What
• 1:42
  am
• 1:42
  I
• 1:42
  supposed
• 1:42
  to
• 1:43
  be
• 1:43
  learning?
• 1:44
  And
• 1:45
  if,
• 1:45
  when
• 1:46
  it
• 1:46
  starts
• 1:46
  unfolding,
• 1:47
  we
• 1:47
  allow
• 1:47
  them
• 1:47
  to
• 1:47
  take
• 1:48
  notes
• 1:48
  and
• 1:48
  just
• 1:48
  start
• 1:49
  paying
• 1:49
  attention
• 1:50
  what
• 1:50
  they
• 1:50
  were
• 1:50
  supposed
• 1:50
  to
• 1:50
  be
• 1:51
  learning.
• 1:51
  And
• 1:52
  afterwards
• 1:52
  we'd
• 1:53
  have
• 1:53
  group
• 1:53
  processes
• 1:54
  that
• 1:54
  were
• 1:54
  incredibly
• 1:55
  deep.
• 1:56
  And
• 1:56
  I
• 1:56
  developed
• 1:57
  that
• 1:57
  with
• 1:57
  my
• 1:57
  students
• 1:58
  because
• 1:58
  I
• 1:59
  also
• 1:59
  suffered
• 1:59
  from
• 1:59
  a
• 2:00
  lot
• 2:00
  of
• 2:01
  trauma
• 2:01
  and
• 2:01
  depression.
• 2:02
  And
• 2:02
  it
• 2:02
  became
• 2:02
  a
• 2:03
  very,
• 2:03
  very
• 2:03
  effective
• 2:04
  tool.
• 2:04
  And
• 2:04
  the
• 2:05
  people
• 2:05
  I
• 2:05
  was
• 2:05
  working
• 2:05
  with
• 2:05
  and
• 2:06
  helping
• 2:07
  myself.
• 2:09
  That's
• 2:09
  so
• 2:10
  beautiful.
• 2:10
  I
• 2:11
  love
• 2:11
  that.
• 2:12
  Wonderful.
• 2:12
  I
• 2:13
  imagine
• 2:13
  it
• 2:13
  was
• 2:14
  very
• 2:14
  powerful
• 2:15
  and
• 2:16
  exactly
• 2:17
  the
• 2:17
  same
• 2:17
  kind
• 2:18
  of
• 2:18
  thing
• 2:18
  that
• 2:18
  I'm
• 2:19
  talking
• 2:19
  about
• 2:19
  here.
• 2:20
  And
• 2:20
  I
• 2:20
  don't
• 2:21
  know
• 2:21
  if
• 2:21
  it's
• 2:21
  what
• 2:21
  you
• 2:22
  were
• 2:22
  trying
• 2:22
  to
• 2:23
  get
• 2:23
  at,
• 2:23
  Roger.
• 2:24
  A
• 2:24
  couple
• 2:24
  of
• 2:24
  times,
• 2:25
  if
• 2:25
  I
• 2:25
  skirted
• 2:26
  it
• 2:26
  again
• 2:27
  or
• 2:27
  if
• 2:27
  we're.
• 2:28
  No.
• 2:29
  Beautiful.
• 2:29
  Thank
• 2:29
  you.
• 2:32
  Your
• 2:32
  point
• 2:33
  about
• 2:33
  remembering
• 2:34
  the
• 2:34
  bigger
• 2:35
  context
• 2:35
  of
• 2:35
  things
• 2:36
  reminds
• 2:36
  me
• 2:36
  of
• 2:37
  what
• 2:38
  I
• 2:38
  was
• 2:38
  told
• 2:39
  about.
• 2:40
  If
• 2:40
  you're
• 2:40
  really
• 2:41
  angry
• 2:41
  with
• 2:42
  someone,
• 2:42
  you
• 2:42
  wish
• 2:42
  they
• 2:42
  were
• 2:43
  dead,
• 2:44
  be
• 2:44
  patient.
• 2:48
  I
• 2:48
  was
• 2:48
  like,
• 2:49
  oh,
• 2:49
  okay.
• 2:50
  They'll
• 2:50
  be
• 2:51
  dead
• 2:51
  and
• 2:51
  so
• 2:51
  will
• 2:52
  you,
• 2:52
  and
• 2:52
  then
• 2:52
  it
• 2:52
  probably
• 2:53
  won't
• 2:53
  matter
• 2:53
  so
• 2:53
  much.
• 2:57
  That's
• 2:57
  very
• 2:57
  exciting.
• 2:58
  I
• 2:58
  like
• 2:58
  that.
• 3:00
  Yeah.
• 3:01
  Yeah.
• 3:01
  Simon,
• 3:02
  probably.
• 3:03
  You
• 3:03
  didn't
• 3:03
  mention
• 3:04
  this.
• 3:04
  I
• 3:04
  don't
• 3:04
  remember
• 3:04
  it.
• 3:04
  In
• 3:05
  your
• 3:05
  book,
• 3:05
  Quiet
• 3:05
  Strength,
• 3:06
  You've
• 3:06
  got
• 3:07
  a
• 3:07
  lot
• 3:07
  in
• 3:07
  there,
• 3:07
  but
• 3:07
  I
• 3:07
  don't
• 3:07
  remember
• 3:08
  this
• 3:08
  one.
• 3:08
  I
• 3:08
  don't
• 3:08
  remember
• 3:08
  humor
• 3:09
  in
• 3:09
  there.
• 3:09
  Did
• 3:09
  I
• 3:10
  miss
• 3:10
  something?
• 3:10
  Humor?
• 3:11
  Yes,
• 3:11
  there's
• 3:11
  a
• 3:12
  chapter
• 3:12
  on
• 3:12
  humor.
• 3:13
  Oh,
• 3:13
  wait.
• 3:13
  On.
• 3:13
  Yes.
• 3:14
  Okay,
• 3:14
  thank
• 3:14
  you.
• 3:14
  Thank
• 3:15
  you.
• 3:15
  All
• 3:15
  right.
• 3:15
  There
• 3:16
  is
• 3:16
  a
• 3:16
  chapter
• 3:16
  on
• 3:16
  humor.
• 3:17
  I
• 3:17
  interviewed
• 3:18
  Swami
• 3:19
  Beyondananda.
• 3:20
  That's
• 3:20
  right,
• 3:21
  you
• 3:21
  did.
• 3:22
  And
• 3:22
  we
• 3:22
  interviewed
• 3:23
  Swami
• 3:23
  Beyondanandahere,
• 3:25
  and
• 3:25
  he's
• 3:25
  very
• 3:25
  funny.
• 3:26
  So
• 3:26
  thank
• 3:26
  you
• 3:26
  for
• 3:26
  reminding
• 3:27
  me.
• 3:27
  Yes.
• 3:27
  It's
• 3:28
  in
• 3:28
  your
• 3:28
  book,
• 3:28
  Quiet
• 3:29
  Strength.
• 3:29
  It
• 3:30
  has
• 3:30
  a
• 3:30
  lot
• 3:30
  in
• 3:31
  your
• 3:31
  book,
• 3:31
  I
• 3:31
  have
• 3:31
  to
• 3:32
  say,
• 3:32
  so
• 3:32
  thank
• 3:32
  you
• 3:32
  for
• 3:33
  reminding
• 3:33
  me
• 3:33
  of
• 3:33
  that.
• 3:34
  Yes.
• 3:35
  Yeah,
• 3:35
  most.
• 3:36
  I
• 3:36
  mean,
• 3:36
  Beyondananda
• 3:37
  fan.
• 3:39
  You
• 3:39
  know,
• 3:39
  I
• 3:40
  have
• 3:40
  a
• 3:40
  number
• 3:40
  of
• 3:40
  friends
• 3:41
  who
• 3:41
  quote
• 3:42
  you
• 3:42
  to
• 3:42
  me,
• 3:42
  Roger.
• 3:44
  Uh.
• 3:44
  Oh.
• 3:44
  I
• 3:44
  haven't
• 3:45
  told
• 3:45
  you
• 3:45
  this.
• 3:46
  I
• 3:46
  haven't
• 3:46
  told
• 3:46
  you
• 3:47
  this,
• 3:47
  but
• 3:48
  they're
• 3:48
  always,
• 3:49
  like,
• 3:49
  really
• 3:49
  funny
• 3:50
  things
• 3:50
  that
• 3:51
  you've
• 3:51
  said
• 3:51
  over
• 3:52
  the
• 3:52
  years
• 3:52
  that
• 3:52
  they
• 3:53
  remember
• 3:54
  that
• 3:54
  were,
• 3:54
  like,
• 3:55
  really
• 3:55
  funny,
• 3:56
  pithy.
• 3:57
  Oh,
• 3:57
  here's
• 3:58
  one
• 3:58
  of
• 3:58
  them
• 3:58
  that
• 3:59
  comes
• 3:59
  to
• 3:59
  mind
• 4:00
  from
• 4:00
  my
• 4:00
  friend
• 4:01
  Leah,
• 4:01
  who
• 4:02
  said
• 4:02
  some.
• 4:03
  You
• 4:03
  said
• 4:04
  something
• 4:04
  like,
• 4:05
  you
• 4:05
  have
• 4:06
  to
• 4:06
  be
• 4:06
  cheesy
• 4:07
  to
• 4:07
  be
• 4:07
  free.
• 4:09
  Okay,
• 4:09
  well,
• 4:10
  I
• 4:10
  don't
• 4:11
  think
• 4:11
  that
• 4:11
  was
• 4:11
  me,
• 4:12
  but
• 4:12
  I'll
• 4:12
  take
• 4:12
  credit.
• 4:15
  Whatever
• 4:15
  it
• 4:15
  was,
• 4:15
  it's
• 4:16
  probably
• 4:16
  gone
• 4:17
  through,
• 4:17
  you
• 4:17
  know,
• 4:18
  kind
• 4:18
  of.
• 4:18
  It's
• 4:18
  not
• 4:19
  exactly
• 4:19
  Thoreau,
• 4:19
  but,
• 4:20
  you
• 4:20
  know,
• 4:20
  it's
• 4:20
  not
• 4:20
  bad.
• 4:21
  Telephone
• 4:22
  tag.
• 4:23
  It's
• 4:24
  gone
• 4:24
  through
• 4:24
  a
• 4:25
  telephone,
• 4:25
  you
• 4:26
  know,
• 4:26
  over
• 4:26
  the
• 4:27
  years.
• 4:27
  Yeah.
• 4:28
  But
• 4:28
  I
• 4:29
  do
• 4:29
  think
• 4:29
  that
• 4:30
  humor
• 4:30
  breaks
• 4:31
  the
• 4:31
  spell,
• 4:32
  you
• 4:32
  know,
• 4:33
  so
• 4:33
  part
• 4:33
  of
• 4:34
  reactivity
• 4:35
  is
• 4:35
  we
• 4:36
  get
• 4:36
  caught
• 4:36
  in
• 4:36
  a
• 4:37
  spell,
• 4:37
  you
• 4:37
  know,
• 4:38
  when
• 4:38
  we
• 4:38
  lose
• 4:38
  equanimity,
• 4:39
  we
• 4:39
  get
• 4:40
  caught
• 4:40
  in
• 4:40
  a
• 4:41
  trance.
• 4:41
  We're
• 4:42
  believing
• 4:43
  in
• 4:43
  something
• 4:44
  that
• 4:45
  has
• 4:45
  us
• 4:47
  prisoner.
• 4:48
  And
• 4:48
  humor
• 4:49
  breaks
• 4:49
  the
• 4:50
  spell.
• 4:50
  It
• 4:51
  does,
• 4:52
  yeah.
• 4:52
  It
• 4:52
  can
• 4:52
  save
• 4:53
  lives.
• 4:53
  I
• 4:53
  mean,
• 4:53
  it's
• 4:53
  very
• 4:54
  powerful.
• 4:55
  Yeah.
• 4:55
  And
• 4:56
  you
• 4:56
  just
• 4:56
  said
• 4:56
  something
• 4:57
  I'd
• 4:57
  never
• 4:57
  thought
• 4:57
  of
• 4:57
  before.
• 4:58
  It's
• 4:58
  like
• 4:59
  we
• 4:59
  used
• 4:59
  the
• 4:59
  word.
• 5:00
  Now,
• 5:00
  I
• 5:00
  can't
• 5:00
  quite
• 5:01
  pull
• 5:01
  back
• 5:01
  the
• 5:01
  exact
• 5:02
  words,
• 5:02
  but,
• 5:02
  like,
• 5:02
  when
• 5:03
  we
• 5:03
  lose
• 5:03
  equanimity,
• 5:04
  we're
• 5:04
  entranced.
• 5:05
  Yes.
• 5:06
  It's
• 5:06
  like.
• 5:06
  Yeah,
• 5:07
  okay.
• 5:08
  Yeah.
• 5:08
  Hadn't
• 5:08
  thought
• 5:09
  of
• 5:09
  it
• 5:09
  that
• 5:09
  way.
• 5:09
  Thank
• 5:09
  you.
• 5:10
  Yeah.
• 5:11
  Let's
• 5:11
  see.
• 5:11
  I
• 5:11
  would
• 5:12
  change.
• 5:12
  I
• 5:13
  mean,
• 5:13
  we
• 5:13
  can
• 5:13
  go
• 5:14
  a
• 5:14
  number
• 5:14
  of
• 5:14
  ways,
• 5:14
  so.
• 5:15
  And
• 5:16
  it's
• 5:16
  partly
• 5:16
  up
• 5:16
  to
• 5:16
  you,
• 5:17
  but
• 5:17
  one
• 5:17
  thing
• 5:17
  we
• 5:17
  haven't
• 5:18
  touched
• 5:18
  on
• 5:18
  yet
• 5:18
  is,
• 5:19
  is
• 5:20
  the
• 5:20
  relationship
• 5:20
  between
• 5:21
  equanimity
• 5:22
  and
• 5:22
  peace
• 5:22
  or
• 5:23
  calm.
• 5:23
  Because
• 5:23
  I
• 5:24
  know
• 5:24
  a
• 5:24
  lot
• 5:24
  of
• 5:24
  people
• 5:24
  think
• 5:24
  they're
• 5:25
  the
• 5:25
  same.
• 5:26
  Yes.
• 5:26
  A
• 5:26
  lot
• 5:26
  of
• 5:27
  people
• 5:27
  do.
• 5:27
  And
• 5:28
  interestingly,
• 5:30
  you
• 5:30
  know,
• 5:30
  of
• 5:31
  all
• 5:31
  the
• 5:32
  religions
• 5:33
  that
• 5:34
  I
• 5:34
  explored,
• 5:35
  and
• 5:35
  not
• 5:35
  in
• 5:35
  great
• 5:36
  depth,
• 5:36
  mind
• 5:36
  you,
• 5:36
  I
• 5:37
  interviewed
• 5:38
  leaders
• 5:38
  or
• 5:39
  I
• 5:39
  interviewed
• 5:39
  two
• 5:40
  Christian
• 5:40
  theologians
• 5:41
  for
• 5:42
  the
• 5:42
  book.
• 5:42
  Equanimity
• 5:43
  does
• 5:44
  not
• 5:44
  figure
• 5:45
  very
• 5:45
  strongly
• 5:46
  in
• 5:46
  Christian.
• 5:47
  It
• 5:47
  was
• 5:47
  hard
• 5:48
  to
• 5:48
  find.
• 5:48
  There
• 5:48
  aren't
• 5:49
  a
• 5:49
  lot.
• 5:49
  Can
• 5:50
  I
• 5:50
  say
• 5:50
  a
• 5:50
  bit
• 5:50
  about
• 5:50
  that?
• 5:51
  I
• 5:51
  come
• 5:51
  from
• 5:51
  a
• 5:52
  Christian
• 5:52
  thing
• 5:52
  and
• 5:53
  it's
• 5:53
  kind
• 5:53
  of
• 5:53
  embarrassing
• 5:54
  to
• 5:54
  say
• 5:54
  you're
• 5:54
  Christian
• 5:54
  at
• 5:55
  this
• 5:55
  point
• 5:55
  and
• 5:56
  where
• 5:56
  we
• 5:56
  stand
• 5:56
  in
• 5:56
  our
• 5:57
  country
• 5:57
  anyway,
• 5:57
  we
• 5:58
  can
• 5:58
  go
• 5:58
  into
• 5:58
  that.
• 5:59
  But
• 6:00
  there
• 6:00
  are.
• 6:00
  In
• 6:00
  preparing
• 6:01
  for
• 6:01
  this,
• 6:01
  I
• 6:01
  went
• 6:02
  back
• 6:02
  and
• 6:02
  looked
• 6:02
  at
• 6:02
  the
• 6:02
  Bible
• 6:03
  and
• 6:03
  there's
• 6:03
  a
• 6:03
  lot
• 6:03
  of
• 6:04
  things
• 6:04
  about
• 6:05
  peace,
• 6:05
  the
• 6:05
  peace
• 6:05
  of
• 6:05
  God
• 6:06
  that
• 6:06
  passeth
• 6:07
  understanding.
• 6:07
  And
• 6:08
  Jesus
• 6:08
  talked
• 6:08
  a
• 6:09
  lot
• 6:09
  about
• 6:09
  peace.
• 6:09
  Now,
• 6:10
  be
• 6:10
  still.
• 6:10
  Why
• 6:11
  are
• 6:11
  you
• 6:11
  afraid?
• 6:11
  You
• 6:12
  know,
• 6:12
  peace.
• 6:13
  That's
• 6:14
  exactly
• 6:14
  what
• 6:14
  I
• 6:14
  was
• 6:15
  going
• 6:15
  to
• 6:15
  say.
• 6:15
  Yeah.
• 6:16
  Is
• 6:16
  that
• 6:16
  the
• 6:17
  people
• 6:17
  that
• 6:17
  I
• 6:17
  interviewed
• 6:18
  use
• 6:19
  the
• 6:19
  word
• 6:19
  peace.
• 6:20
  And
• 6:21
  I
• 6:21
  think
• 6:21
  it
• 6:22
  is
• 6:22
  very
• 6:22
  close
• 6:22
  and
• 6:23
  very
• 6:23
  similar.
• 6:24
  I
• 6:25
  think
• 6:25
  the
• 6:25
  challenge
• 6:26
  with
• 6:26
  the
• 6:26
  word
• 6:27
  peace
• 6:28
  is
• 6:28
  that,
• 6:28
  as
• 6:29
  I
• 6:29
  was
• 6:29
  saying
• 6:29
  earlier
• 6:30
  is
• 6:31
  that
• 6:31
  it's
• 6:31
  hard
• 6:32
  for
• 6:32
  people
• 6:32
  to
• 6:32
  imagine
• 6:34
  being
• 6:34
  excited
• 6:35
  and
• 6:35
  peaceful
• 6:35
  at
• 6:35
  the
• 6:36
  same
• 6:36
  time,
• 6:37
  being
• 6:38
  brokenhearted
• 6:39
  and
• 6:39
  peaceful
• 6:40
  at
• 6:40
  the
• 6:40
  same
• 6:40
  time.
• 6:41
  So
• 6:41
  I
• 6:42
  think
• 6:42
  peace
• 6:42
  is
• 6:42
  fine
• 6:43
  and
• 6:43
  it
• 6:44
  is
• 6:44
  very
• 6:44
  close,
• 6:45
  but
• 6:46
  I
• 6:46
  want
• 6:46
  the
• 6:46
  broadest
• 6:47
  understanding
• 6:48
  of
• 6:48
  peace
• 6:49
  possible
• 6:50
  so
• 6:50
  that
• 6:50
  it
• 6:50
  can
• 6:51
  include
• 6:51
  our
• 6:52
  full
• 6:52
  humanity.
• 6:54
  And
• 6:54
  we
• 6:55
  often
• 6:55
  limit
• 6:56
  peace,
• 6:56
  our
• 6:57
  understanding
• 6:57
  of
• 6:58
  what
• 6:58
  peace
• 6:58
  looks
• 6:59
  like.
• 7:00
  That's
• 7:00
  why
• 7:01
  us
• 7:01
  Christians
• 7:01
  need
• 7:02
  Buddhists
• 7:03
  to
• 7:03
  help
• 7:03
  us
• 7:04
  sort
• 7:04
  this
• 7:04
  stuff
• 7:04
  out.
• 7:09
  Yeah.
• 7:09
  And
• 7:10
  if
• 7:11
  to
• 7:11
  whatever
• 7:11
  extent
• 7:12
  I
• 7:12
  understand
• 7:12
  it,
• 7:12
  it
• 7:13
  seems
• 7:13
  like
• 7:14
  equanimity
• 7:15
  has
• 7:15
  been
• 7:15
  part
• 7:15
  of
• 7:16
  the
• 7:16
  Christian
• 7:16
  tradition,
• 7:16
  but
• 7:17
  more
• 7:17
  in
• 7:17
  the
• 7:17
  contemplative,
• 7:18
  like
• 7:18
  the
• 7:18
  desert
• 7:19
  fathers
• 7:19
  and
• 7:19
  desert
• 7:20
  mothers.
• 7:20
  It
• 7:20
  was
• 7:21
  divine
• 7:21
  apatheia,
• 7:24
  so
• 7:24
  it
• 7:24
  was
• 7:25
  there,
• 7:25
  but
• 7:26
  not
• 7:26
  so
• 7:26
  much.
• 7:27
  Peace
• 7:27
  was
• 7:27
  more
• 7:28
  in
• 7:28
  the
• 7:28
  mainstream,
• 7:28
  I
• 7:29
  think.
• 7:29
  Yeah.
• 7:29
  Yeah.
• 7:30
  And
• 7:31
  you
• 7:31
  mentioned
• 7:32
  the
• 7:32
  study
• 7:32
  of
• 7:33
  the
• 7:33
  great
• 7:33
  religions
• 7:33
  and
• 7:34
  in
• 7:34
  your
• 7:34
  book
• 7:34
  Quiet
• 7:34
  Strength.
• 7:35
  You
• 7:35
  certainly
• 7:35
  draw
• 7:36
  on
• 7:36
  a
• 7:36
  number
• 7:36
  of
• 7:37
  traditions,
• 7:38
  particularly
• 7:38
  Buddhism,
• 7:38
  as
• 7:39
  you
• 7:39
  point
• 7:39
  out,
• 7:39
  because
• 7:39
  that
• 7:40
  maybe
• 7:40
  give
• 7:41
  most
• 7:41
  attention
• 7:41
  to
• 7:42
  equanimity,
• 7:42
  but
• 7:42
  you
• 7:43
  certainly
• 7:43
  draw
• 7:43
  on
• 7:44
  a
• 7:44
  lot
• 7:44
  of
• 7:44
  traditions
• 7:44
  and
• 7:45
  it
• 7:46
  seems
• 7:46
  like
• 7:47
  that
• 7:48
  to
• 7:48
  varying
• 7:49
  degrees,
• 7:50
  equanimity
• 7:51
  is
• 7:51
  a
• 7:52
  highly
• 7:52
  esteemed
• 7:54
  value
• 7:54
  or
• 7:54
  virtue
• 7:55
  in
• 7:56
  practically
• 7:56
  every
• 7:56
  tradition
• 7:57
  to
• 7:57
  some
• 7:58
  degree.
• 7:58
  And
• 7:59
  that
• 7:59
  the
• 7:59
  descriptions
• 8:00
  of
• 8:00
  the
• 8:01
  great
• 8:02
  sages,
• 8:03
  the
• 8:03
  saints,
• 8:04
  really
• 8:04
  do.
• 8:05
  There's
• 8:06
  often
• 8:06
  there's
• 8:06
  a
• 8:06
  description
• 8:07
  of
• 8:07
  this
• 8:07
  capacity
• 8:08
  for
• 8:09
  equanimity
• 8:10
  in
• 8:10
  the
• 8:10
  face
• 8:10
  of
• 8:11
  great
• 8:11
  challenge.
• 8:13
  Absolutely.
• 8:14
  I
• 8:14
  was
• 8:15
  really
• 8:15
  excited
• 8:16
  and
• 8:16
  fascinated
• 8:17
  by
• 8:17
  this
• 8:18
  and
• 8:19
  the
• 8:20
  idea
• 8:21
  from
• 8:21
  Buddhism
• 8:22
  of
• 8:23
  the
• 8:24
  worldly
• 8:24
  winds,
• 8:25
  the
• 8:26
  vicissitudes,
• 8:27
  these
• 8:28
  pairs
• 8:28
  of
• 8:29
  constantly
• 8:29
  changing
• 8:30
  qualities,
• 8:31
  gain
• 8:32
  and
• 8:32
  loss,
• 8:32
  fame
• 8:33
  and
• 8:33
  disrepute,
• 8:34
  praise
• 8:35
  and
• 8:35
  blame
• 8:35
  and
• 8:35
  pleasure
• 8:36
  and
• 8:36
  pain.
• 8:38
  Our
• 8:40
  kind
• 8:40
  of
• 8:40
  equanimity
• 8:41
  is
• 8:42
  measured
• 8:42
  often
• 8:43
  against
• 8:44
  those
• 8:45
  changing
• 8:46
  qualities,
• 8:47
  not
• 8:48
  just
• 8:48
  in
• 8:48
  Buddhism,
• 8:48
  but
• 8:49
  in
• 8:49
  all
• 8:49
  the
• 8:49
  traditions.
• 8:50
  This
• 8:51
  was
• 8:51
  something
• 8:51
  that
• 8:52
  linked
• 8:53
  especially
• 8:54
  Islam
• 8:55
  and
• 8:55
  Judaism
• 8:56
  to
• 8:56
  Buddhism.
• 8:58
  And
• 8:58
  actually
• 8:58
  also
• 8:59
  Stoicism
• 9:00
  were
• 9:01
  very
• 9:01
  specific
• 9:02
  references
• 9:03
  to,
• 9:04
  and
• 9:04
  stories
• 9:05
  about
• 9:06
  people
• 9:06
  and
• 9:06
  their
• 9:07
  relationship
• 9:07
  to
• 9:09
  fame
• 9:09
  and
• 9:09
  disrepute,
• 9:10
  praise
• 9:11
  and
• 9:11
  blame.
• 9:12
  And
• 9:12
  praise
• 9:13
  and
• 9:13
  blame
• 9:14
  kind
• 9:14
  of
• 9:14
  brings
• 9:15
  us
• 9:15
  full
• 9:15
  circle
• 9:16
  to
• 9:16
  social
• 9:16
  media
• 9:17
  now.
• 9:19
  The
• 9:19
  praise
• 9:20
  and
• 9:20
  blame
• 9:21
  algorithm,
• 9:22
  that
• 9:23
  is
• 9:23
  just
• 9:24
  so
• 9:24
  genius,
• 9:26
  and
• 9:27
  it
• 9:27
  has
• 9:30
  so
• 9:30
  exponentially
• 9:33
  increased
• 9:34
  our
• 9:34
  reactivity
• 9:36
  to
• 9:36
  this
• 9:36
  kind
• 9:36
  of
• 9:37
  fundamentally
• 9:38
  changing
• 9:39
  phenomenon
• 9:41
  that
• 9:42
  all
• 9:42
  of
• 9:43
  many
• 9:43
  of
• 9:43
  the
• 9:43
  great
• 9:44
  sages
• 9:44
  throughout
• 9:44
  religion
• 9:46
  said,
• 9:46
  you
• 9:47
  know,
• 9:47
  equanimity
• 9:48
  has
• 9:48
  to
• 9:48
  do
• 9:48
  with
• 9:49
  not
• 9:49
  taking
• 9:50
  those
• 9:50
  so
• 9:51
  personally.
• 9:52
  Yeah.
• 9:53
  There's
• 9:53
  a
• 9:53
  quote
• 9:53
  from
• 9:53
  Gibbons,
• 9:54
  who
• 9:54
  wrote
• 9:54
  the
• 9:54
  Rise
• 9:55
  and
• 9:55
  Fall
• 9:55
  of
• 9:55
  the
• 9:56
  Roman
• 9:56
  Empire.
• 9:57
  And
• 9:57
  he
• 9:57
  was
• 9:57
  not
• 9:57
  a
• 9:58
  big
• 9:58
  fan
• 9:58
  of
• 9:58
  Christianity,
• 9:59
  but
• 9:59
  he
• 9:59
  said
• 10:00
  that
• 10:00
  it
• 10:00
  wasn't
• 10:01
  the
• 10:01
  way
• 10:01
  the
• 10:01
  Christians
• 10:01
  lived
• 10:02
  that
• 10:02
  won
• 10:02
  over
• 10:03
  the
• 10:03
  empire,
• 10:03
  was
• 10:03
  the
• 10:04
  way
• 10:04
  they
• 10:04
  died,
• 10:04
  the
• 10:05
  way
• 10:05
  they
• 10:05
  faced
• 10:05
  death.
• 10:06
  And
• 10:06
  people
• 10:06
  were
• 10:06
  just
• 10:07
  like
• 10:08
  very,
• 10:08
  very
• 10:09
  affected
• 10:10
  by
• 10:10
  that.
• 10:10
  And
• 10:11
  I've
• 10:11
  always
• 10:11
  thought
• 10:12
  about
• 10:12
  that
• 10:12
  quote
• 10:12
  and
• 10:12
  what
• 10:12
  you're
• 10:13
  talking
• 10:13
  about.
• 10:14
  It's
• 10:14
  interesting.
• 10:15
  Yeah.
• 10:16
  I
• 10:16
  mean,
• 10:16
  the
• 10:17
  other
• 10:17
  thing
• 10:17
  that
• 10:17
  I
• 10:18
  thought
• 10:18
  was
• 10:18
  really
• 10:18
  cool,
• 10:19
  I
• 10:19
  got
• 10:20
  excited
• 10:20
  about
• 10:21
  in
• 10:22
  exploring
• 10:22
  different
• 10:23
  religious
• 10:24
  approaches
• 10:24
  to
• 10:24
  equanimity
• 10:26
  was
• 10:26
  that
• 10:27
  Maimonides
• 10:28
  was
• 10:28
  the
• 10:29
  one
• 10:29
  who
• 10:29
  introduced,
• 10:30
  as
• 10:30
  far
• 10:31
  as
• 10:31
  I
• 10:31
  can
• 10:31
  tell,
• 10:32
  who
• 10:32
  introduced
• 10:33
  the
• 10:33
  concept
• 10:34
  into
• 10:34
  Judaism
• 10:35
  in
• 10:35
  the
• 10:35
  12th
• 10:36
  century.
• 10:37
  That's
• 10:37
  like
• 10:37
  the
• 10:37
  first
• 10:38
  time
• 10:38
  that
• 10:38
  we
• 10:38
  find
• 10:39
  it.
• 10:39
  I
• 10:40
  didn't
• 10:40
  do
• 10:40
  a
• 10:40
  super
• 10:41
  deep
• 10:41
  dive,
• 10:42
  but
• 10:42
  as
• 10:42
  far
• 10:42
  as
• 10:42
  I
• 10:43
  could
• 10:43
  tell,
• 10:44
  it
• 10:44
  came
• 10:44
  with
• 10:44
  Maimonides.
• 10:46
  And
• 10:46
  Maimonides
• 10:47
  got
• 10:48
  it
• 10:48
  from
• 10:49
  Sufism.
• 10:51
  He
• 10:51
  literally
• 10:52
  borrowed
• 10:53
  a
• 10:53
  story
• 10:54
  that
• 10:54
  was
• 10:54
  a
• 10:54
  relationship
• 10:55
  to
• 10:56
  these
• 10:56
  Buddhist
• 10:57
  ideas
• 10:57
  of
• 10:58
  the
• 10:58
  vicissitudes
• 11:00
  around
• 11:00
  how
• 11:01
  someone
• 11:01
  related
• 11:01
  to
• 11:02
  praise
• 11:02
  and
• 11:02
  blame
• 11:03
  and
• 11:05
  brought
• 11:05
  it
• 11:05
  into
• 11:06
  Judaism.
• 11:08
  So
• 11:08
  anyway,
• 11:09
  I
• 11:09
  thought
• 11:09
  that
• 11:09
  was
• 11:09
  kind
• 11:10
  of
• 11:10
  fascinating.
• 11:11
  And
• 11:11
  you
• 11:11
  mentioned
• 11:12
  the
• 11:13
  religions,
• 11:13
  but
• 11:13
  you
• 11:14
  also
• 11:14
  just
• 11:14
  mentioned
• 11:14
  one
• 11:15
  of
• 11:15
  the
• 11:15
  philosophies,
• 11:16
  Stoicism,
• 11:17
  and
• 11:17
  there,
• 11:17
  of
• 11:18
  course,
• 11:19
  and
• 11:19
  not
• 11:19
  only
• 11:19
  in
• 11:20
  Stoicism,
• 11:20
  but
• 11:20
  in
• 11:21
  other
• 11:21
  Greek
• 11:21
  philosophies
• 11:22
  too,
• 11:23
  Equanimity
• 11:23
  was
• 11:24
  really
• 11:25
  perhaps
• 11:26
  the
• 11:26
  supreme
• 11:26
  virtue
• 11:28
  along
• 11:28
  with
• 11:28
  wisdom.
• 11:29
  Yeah.
• 11:30
  And
• 11:30
  it
• 11:30
  does
• 11:31
  seem
• 11:31
  that,
• 11:32
  you
• 11:32
  know,
• 11:32
  the
• 11:32
  Sufis
• 11:33
  got
• 11:34
  it
• 11:34
  from
• 11:34
  the
• 11:34
  Stoics,
• 11:35
  you
• 11:35
  know,
• 11:36
  and
• 11:36
  again,
• 11:36
  I
• 11:36
  haven't
• 11:37
  traced
• 11:37
  this,
• 11:38
  maybe
• 11:38
  you
• 11:38
  have,
• 11:38
  but
• 11:39
  it
• 11:40
  does
• 11:40
  seem
• 11:40
  to
• 11:40
  be
• 11:41
  something
• 11:41
  that
• 11:41
  has
• 11:42
  just
• 11:42
  been
• 11:42
  passed
• 11:43
  on,
• 11:43
  you
• 11:43
  know,
• 11:44
  and
• 11:44
  that
• 11:44
  there's
• 11:45
  been
• 11:46
  at
• 11:46
  other
• 11:46
  times
• 11:46
  a
• 11:47
  beautiful
• 11:47
  dialogue
• 11:48
  and
• 11:48
  conversation
• 11:49
  and
• 11:50
  relationship
• 11:51
  among
• 11:52
  these
• 11:53
  great
• 11:53
  wisdom
• 11:54
  traditions.
• 11:55
  Yeah.
• 11:55
  The
• 11:55
  way
• 11:56
  that
• 11:56
  Socrates
• 11:56
  died,
• 11:57
  if
• 11:57
  you
• 11:57
  remember
• 11:57
  that
• 11:58
  he
• 11:58
  died
• 11:58
  so
• 11:58
  with
• 11:59
  so
• 11:59
  much
• 12:00
  equanimity
• 12:01
  when
• 12:01
  he
• 12:01
  drank
• 12:02
  the
• 12:02
  poison
• 12:02
  rather
• 12:03
  than
• 12:03
  to
• 12:03
  be
• 12:04
  sent
• 12:04
  out
• 12:04
  of
• 12:04
  Athens.
• 12:05
  And
• 12:06
  it
• 12:06
  was
• 12:06
  a
• 12:06
  very
• 12:07
  amazing
• 12:08
  experience
• 12:08
  for
• 12:08
  his
• 12:09
  students
• 12:09
  to
• 12:09
  see
• 12:10
  the
• 12:10
  way
• 12:10
  he
• 12:10
  died
• 12:11
  and
• 12:11
  he
• 12:11
  just
• 12:11
  really
• 12:12
  accepted
• 12:12
  it.
• 12:12
  And
• 12:13
  that
• 12:13
  kind
• 12:13
  of
• 12:13
  brilliant
• 12:14
  heroic
• 12:15
  stoicism
• 12:16
  and
• 12:16
  equanimity.
• 12:18
  A
• 12:18
  very
• 12:18
  powerful
• 12:19
  influence
• 12:19
  in
• 12:20
  Western
• 12:20
  culture.
• 12:22
  Absolutely.
• 12:23
  And
• 12:24
  you
• 12:24
  know,
• 12:24
  that
• 12:24
  reminds
• 12:25
  me
• 12:25
  of,
• 12:25
  you
• 12:26
  know,
• 12:26
  I
• 12:26
  didn't
• 12:26
  put
• 12:26
  this
• 12:27
  in
• 12:27
  the
• 12:27
  book,
• 12:27
  but
• 12:27
  it's
• 12:28
  interesting
• 12:28
  to
• 12:28
  think
• 12:29
  about
• 12:29
  it.
• 12:30
  How
• 12:30
  Thoreau
• 12:31
  died
• 12:32
  and
• 12:33
  that
• 12:33
  incredible
• 12:34
  story
• 12:34
  about
• 12:35
  someone
• 12:36
  visiting
• 12:36
  Thoreau.
• 12:37
  They
• 12:37
  wrote
• 12:37
  about
• 12:38
  it
• 12:38
  in
• 12:38
  a
• 12:38
  book
• 12:38
  and
• 12:39
  I
• 12:39
  don't
• 12:39
  have
• 12:39
  it
• 12:40
  in
• 12:40
  front
• 12:40
  of
• 12:40
  me,
• 12:40
  but
• 12:41
  they
• 12:41
  visited
• 12:42
  him
• 12:42
  while
• 12:42
  he
• 12:42
  was
• 12:42
  on
• 12:43
  his
• 12:43
  deathbed.
• 12:43
  He
• 12:43
  died
• 12:44
  very
• 12:44
  young.
• 12:45
  I
• 12:45
  think
• 12:45
  it
• 12:45
  was
• 12:46
  maybe
• 12:46
  tuberculosis,
• 12:47
  I'm
• 12:47
  not
• 12:47
  sure,
• 12:48
  but
• 12:48
  like
• 12:48
  in
• 12:49
  his
• 12:49
  late
• 12:49
  20s,
• 12:50
  early
• 12:50
  30s,
• 12:50
  very,
• 12:51
  very
• 12:51
  young.
• 12:52
  Really?
• 12:52
  That
• 12:52
  young?
• 12:53
  Wow.
• 12:53
  I
• 12:53
  think
• 12:54
  so.
• 12:54
  He
• 12:54
  was
• 12:55
  quite
• 12:55
  young.
• 12:55
  We
• 12:55
  should
• 12:56
  Google
• 12:56
  it.
• 12:56
  But
• 12:58
  someone
• 12:58
  asked
• 12:59
  him
• 12:59
  about
• 13:00
  how
• 13:01
  he
• 13:01
  felt
• 13:01
  about
• 13:01
  death
• 13:02
  and
• 13:02
  dying.
• 13:02
  He
• 13:02
  was
• 13:03
  incredibly
• 13:04
  equanimous
• 13:05
  throughout
• 13:05
  this
• 13:05
  period,
• 13:06
  by
• 13:06
  all
• 13:06
  accounts.
• 13:07
  And
• 13:07
  it
• 13:08
  was
• 13:08
  not
• 13:08
  a
• 13:08
  fun
• 13:09
  death
• 13:09
  or
• 13:09
  a
• 13:09
  pretty
• 13:10
  death,
• 13:10
  you
• 13:10
  know,
• 13:10
  it
• 13:11
  was
• 13:11
  pretty
• 13:12
  difficult
• 13:12
  for
• 13:12
  him.
• 13:13
  And
• 13:14
  his
• 13:14
  answer
• 13:14
  was
• 13:16
  one
• 13:16
  world
• 13:16
  at
• 13:16
  a
• 13:17
  time.
• 13:18
  You
• 13:18
  know,
• 13:18
  how
• 13:19
  do
• 13:19
  you
• 13:19
  feel
• 13:19
  about
• 13:19
  dying?
• 13:20
  One
• 13:20
  world
• 13:20
  at
• 13:20
  a
• 13:20
  time.
• 13:21
  I'm
• 13:21
  in
• 13:21
  this
• 13:22
  world
• 13:22
  now,
• 13:23
  you
• 13:23
  know,
• 13:23
  unbelievably
• 13:24
  a
• 13:25
  quantumist.
• 13:25
  Beautifully
• 13:26
  a
• 13:27
  quantumist
• 13:27
  response.
• 13:28
  And
• 13:28
  of
• 13:28
  course
• 13:29
  his
• 13:29
  came
• 13:30
  through
• 13:30
  humanism
• 13:31
  and
• 13:31
  his
• 13:31
  relationship
• 13:32
  to,
• 13:33
  to
• 13:33
  nature,
• 13:33
  which
• 13:34
  is
• 13:34
  another
• 13:35
  really
• 13:36
  profound
• 13:36
  tradition
• 13:38
  and
• 13:39
  something
• 13:39
  we
• 13:40
  haven't
• 13:40
  talked
• 13:40
  about.
• 13:41
  And
• 13:41
  I
• 13:41
  didn't
• 13:41
  really
• 13:42
  cover
• 13:42
  as
• 13:42
  much
• 13:43
  as
• 13:43
  I
• 13:43
  might
• 13:43
  have
• 13:43
  in
• 13:44
  the
• 13:44
  book,
• 13:44
  but
• 13:44
  how
• 13:45
  much
• 13:45
  that
• 13:45
  is
• 13:45
  a
• 13:46
  doorway
• 13:46
  to
• 13:46
  equanimity.
• 13:48
  I'm
• 13:48
  sorry,
• 13:48
  I
• 13:48
  wasn't
• 13:49
  following.
• 13:49
  Margot,
• 13:49
  what
• 13:50
  the
• 13:50
  facing
• 13:50
  of
• 13:51
  death
• 13:51
  were
• 13:51
  you
• 13:51
  saying?
• 13:52
  Nature,
• 13:52
  I
• 13:52
  think.
• 13:52
  No,
• 13:53
  nature.
• 13:53
  Nature
• 13:54
  and
• 13:55
  the
• 13:55
  humanists.
• 13:56
  Yeah.
• 13:57
  Yes.
• 13:57
  Walden's
• 13:58
  Pond
• 13:58
  and.
• 13:59
  Yeah,
• 13:59
  Ecopsychology
• 14:00
  and
• 14:01
  all
• 14:01
  that
• 14:01
  stuff.
• 14:01
  I
• 14:01
  was
• 14:01
  a
• 14:01
  wilderness
• 14:02
  guide
• 14:02
  for
• 14:03
  many
• 14:03
  years
• 14:03
  and
• 14:03
  I,
• 14:03
  I've
• 14:04
  studied
• 14:04
  and
• 14:05
  experienced
• 14:05
  that.
• 14:06
  Amazingly,
• 14:07
  I
• 14:07
  would
• 14:07
  go
• 14:07
  off
• 14:08
  on
• 14:08
  a
• 14:08
  two
• 14:08
  week
• 14:09
  backpacking
• 14:09
  trip
• 14:10
  by
• 14:10
  myself
• 14:10
  and
• 14:11
  I
• 14:11
  would
• 14:12
  reach
• 14:12
  states
• 14:13
  of
• 14:13
  just
• 14:13
  such
• 14:13
  peace,
• 14:15
  you
• 14:15
  know,
• 14:15
  and
• 14:15
  just,
• 14:16
  just
• 14:16
  being
• 14:17
  there.
• 14:17
  And
• 14:18
  when
• 14:18
  I
• 14:18
  came
• 14:18
  out,
• 14:19
  it
• 14:19
  was
• 14:19
  like
• 14:19
  I
• 14:20
  saw
• 14:20
  everything
• 14:20
  with
• 14:21
  new
• 14:21
  eyes
• 14:21
  and
• 14:22
  every
• 14:22
  person
• 14:22
  looked
• 14:23
  more
• 14:23
  sacred
• 14:23
  than
• 14:23
  they
• 14:24
  did
• 14:24
  before.
• 14:24
  It
• 14:24
  was
• 14:24
  very
• 14:25
  powerful
• 14:25
  experience.
• 14:27
  And
• 14:27
  Margaret,
• 14:28
  you,
• 14:28
  you
• 14:29
  mentioned
• 14:30
  the
• 14:31
  equanimity,
• 14:32
  how
• 14:32
  deeply
• 14:33
  valued
• 14:33
  it
• 14:33
  is
• 14:34
  across
• 14:35
  multiple,
• 14:35
  both
• 14:36
  religious
• 14:36
  traditions,
• 14:37
  contemplative
• 14:37
  practices
• 14:38
  and
• 14:38
  philosophies.
• 14:40
  And
• 14:40
  particularly
• 14:41
  there
• 14:41
  seems
• 14:41
  to
• 14:42
  be
• 14:42
  a
• 14:42
  recurrent
• 14:42
  theme
• 14:43
  in
• 14:43
  multiple
• 14:43
  traditions
• 14:44
  that
• 14:45
  you
• 14:45
  kind
• 14:46
  of
• 14:46
  implied
• 14:46
  this.
• 14:47
  You
• 14:47
  pointed
• 14:47
  to
• 14:47
  a
• 14:47
  link
• 14:48
  between
• 14:48
  equanimity
• 14:49
  and
• 14:49
  wisdom.
• 14:49
  But
• 14:51
  equanimity
• 14:52
  is
• 14:52
  really
• 14:53
  a
• 14:54
  hallmark
• 14:54
  of
• 14:55
  truly
• 14:55
  great
• 14:56
  sages,
• 14:56
  great
• 14:57
  wise
• 14:57
  people,
• 14:58
  wise
• 14:58
  leaders.
• 14:58
  I
• 14:59
  think
• 14:59
  it
• 14:59
  was
• 14:59
  Aurobindo
• 15:00
  who
• 15:00
  said
• 15:00
  equanimity
• 15:01
  is
• 15:01
  the
• 15:01
  characteristic
• 15:02
  temperament
• 15:02
  of
• 15:02
  the
• 15:03
  sage.
• 15:04
  And
• 15:06
  Heraclitus
• 15:07
  to
• 15:07
  be
• 15:07
  even
• 15:08
  minded
• 15:08
  as
• 15:08
  the
• 15:09
  greatest
• 15:09
  good.
• 15:09
  I
• 15:09
  mean,
• 15:09
  this
• 15:10
  has
• 15:10
  really
• 15:10
  been
• 15:12
  highly
• 15:12
  esteemed
• 15:13
  and
• 15:14
  characteristic
• 15:15
  of
• 15:15
  some
• 15:15
  of
• 15:15
  the
• 15:16
  truly
• 15:16
  great
• 15:16
  people
• 15:17
  throughout
• 15:17
  history
• 15:18
  for
• 15:18
  over
• 15:19
  2000
• 15:19
  years.
• 15:22
  And
• 15:22
  Ken
• 15:22
  Wilber,
• 15:23
  I
• 15:23
  might
• 15:23
  add,
• 15:23
  he
• 15:24
  said
• 15:24
  that
• 15:24
  the
• 15:25
  problem
• 15:25
  is
• 15:25
  not
• 15:25
  that
• 15:26
  you
• 15:26
  have
• 15:27
  a
• 15:27
  big
• 15:27
  ego,
• 15:27
  is
• 15:28
  that
• 15:28
  your
• 15:28
  ego
• 15:28
  is
• 15:28
  not
• 15:29
  big
• 15:29
  enough.
• 15:30
  So,
• 15:31
  you
• 15:31
  know,
• 15:32
  there
• 15:32
  you
• 15:32
  go.
• 15:34
  Yes,
• 15:34
  I
• 15:35
  love
• 15:35
  that.
• 15:35
  I
• 15:36
  love
• 15:36
  that
• 15:36
  idea,
• 15:37
  you
• 15:37
  know,
• 15:37
  because,
• 15:38
  yes,
• 15:38
  it's
• 15:39
  fool's
• 15:39
  errand
• 15:40
  to
• 15:40
  try
• 15:40
  to
• 15:40
  get
• 15:41
  rid
• 15:41
  of
• 15:41
  it
• 15:41
  and
• 15:42
  to
• 15:42
  be
• 15:42
  at
• 15:42
  war
• 15:42
  with
• 15:42
  the
• 15:43
  ego.
• 15:43
  Right.
• 15:45
  And
• 15:46
  indeed,
• 15:46
  I
• 15:47
  think
• 15:47
  the
• 15:48
  perspective
• 15:49
  of
• 15:49
  equanimity
• 15:51
  is
• 15:53
  an
• 15:53
  integral
• 15:54
  part
• 15:54
  of
• 15:55
  the
• 15:55
  people
• 15:56
  who
• 15:56
  have
• 15:56
  changed
• 15:57
  the
• 15:57
  world.
• 15:58
  They
• 15:58
  have
• 15:58
  that
• 15:59
  really
• 15:59
  wide
• 16:00
  view.
• 16:01
  They
• 16:01
  have
• 16:01
  a
• 16:01
  wide
• 16:02
  enough
• 16:02
  view
• 16:03
  to
• 16:03
  bring
• 16:04
  forward
• 16:05
  wisdom
• 16:05
  and
• 16:06
  perspective
• 16:06
  that
• 16:07
  can
• 16:07
  actually
• 16:08
  have
• 16:08
  lasting
• 16:09
  change.
• 16:10
  I
• 16:10
  think
• 16:11
  that
• 16:11
  is
• 16:11
  characteristic.
• 16:12
  And
• 16:15
  John
• 16:15
  brought
• 16:15
  up
• 16:16
  ego.
• 16:17
  Humility
• 16:19
  usually
• 16:20
  goes
• 16:20
  with
• 16:20
  equanimity.
• 16:21
  And
• 16:21
  certainly
• 16:22
  all
• 16:22
  the
• 16:22
  stories
• 16:23
  about
• 16:24
  gain
• 16:24
  and
• 16:25
  loss,
• 16:25
  fame
• 16:25
  and
• 16:25
  disrepute
• 16:26
  that
• 16:27
  were
• 16:27
  told
• 16:28
  by
• 16:28
  Maimonides
• 16:29
  and
• 16:30
  Sufis
• 16:30
  and
• 16:31
  various
• 16:31
  other,
• 16:32
  you
• 16:32
  know,
• 16:32
  all
• 16:32
  the
• 16:33
  Zen
• 16:33
  traditions
• 16:34
  have
• 16:34
  a
• 16:34
  lot
• 16:35
  of
• 16:35
  stories.
• 16:35
  They're
• 16:36
  all
• 16:36
  about
• 16:36
  humility.
• 16:38
  But
• 16:38
  I
• 16:39
  really
• 16:39
  like
• 16:39
  what.
• 16:40
  I
• 16:40
  interviewed
• 16:41
  Sufi
• 16:42
  teacher
• 16:42
  Habib
• 16:43
  Borger
• 16:43
  for
• 16:44
  my
• 16:44
  book,
• 16:45
  and
• 16:45
  I
• 16:45
  loved
• 16:45
  what
• 16:46
  he
• 16:46
  said
• 16:46
  about
• 16:46
  the
• 16:46
  ego.
• 16:47
  He
• 16:48
  said,
• 16:48
  rather
• 16:49
  than
• 16:49
  having.
• 16:50
  So
• 16:50
  this
• 16:50
  is
• 16:50
  a
• 16:51
  different
• 16:51
  take
• 16:51
  on
• 16:51
  what
• 16:52
  Ken
• 16:52
  Wilber
• 16:52
  said.
• 16:53
  Rather
• 16:54
  than
• 16:54
  making
• 16:54
  the
• 16:55
  ego
• 16:55
  your
• 16:55
  boss,
• 16:56
  make
• 16:57
  it
• 16:57
  your
• 16:57
  personal
• 16:57
  assistant.
• 17:01
  So
• 17:01
  one
• 17:01
  take
• 17:02
  is,
• 17:02
  you
• 17:02
  know,
• 17:03
  just
• 17:03
  make
• 17:03
  it
• 17:03
  vast
• 17:04
  enough
• 17:04
  to
• 17:04
  hold
• 17:05
  everything.
• 17:05
  Another
• 17:06
  take
• 17:06
  is
• 17:07
  maybe
• 17:08
  it's
• 17:08
  working
• 17:09
  to
• 17:09
  serve
• 17:09
  the
• 17:10
  greater,
• 17:11
  you
• 17:11
  know,
• 17:11
  the
• 17:11
  greater
• 17:12
  perspective.
• 17:13
  But
• 17:13
  either
• 17:14
  way,
• 17:14
  that
• 17:14
  perspective
• 17:15
  is
• 17:16
  equanimity.
• 17:17
  And
• 17:17
  I
• 17:17
  think
• 17:17
  it
• 17:17
  is
• 17:17
  also
• 17:18
  wisdom.
• 17:19
  Margaret,
• 17:20
  if.
• 17:20
  Okay,
• 17:21
  say
• 17:21
  that
• 17:21
  the
• 17:22
  people,
• 17:22
  me
• 17:23
  and
• 17:23
  the
• 17:23
  people
• 17:23
  that
• 17:23
  are
• 17:24
  part
• 17:24
  of
• 17:24
  this
• 17:24
  conversation,
• 17:25
  if
• 17:25
  you
• 17:25
  could
• 17:26
  give
• 17:26
  us
• 17:26
  one
• 17:26
  practice
• 17:27
  from
• 17:27
  your
• 17:27
  book,
• 17:28
  to
• 17:28
  practice
• 17:29
  for
• 17:29
  14
• 17:30
  days,
• 17:30
  for
• 17:30
  two
• 17:30
  weeks
• 17:31
  to
• 17:32
  cultivate
• 17:32
  this
• 17:33
  virtue,
• 17:34
  what
• 17:34
  would
• 17:34
  you
• 17:34
  have?
• 17:35
  A
• 17:35
  student.
• 17:38
  Good
• 17:38
  question.
• 17:39
  Tough
• 17:39
  choice.
• 17:40
  But
• 17:41
  I
• 17:41
  think
• 17:42
  probably.
• 17:44
  Probably
• 17:45
  it
• 17:45
  would
• 17:45
  be.
• 17:46
  And
• 17:46
  I
• 17:46
  offer
• 17:47
  you
• 17:47
  this
• 17:48
  especially
• 17:49
  to
• 17:49
  you,
• 17:49
  John,
• 17:50
  given
• 17:50
  your
• 17:51
  background,
• 17:52
  I
• 17:53
  think
• 17:53
  most
• 17:54
  people
• 17:54
  are
• 17:55
  familiar
• 17:55
  with
• 17:56
  the
• 17:56
  Serenity
• 17:57
  prayer
• 17:58
  from
• 17:58
  the
• 17:59
  12
• 17:59
  steps.
• 18:00
  That
• 18:01
  is
• 18:01
  an
• 18:01
  exquisite
• 18:02
  equanimity
• 18:02
  practice.
• 18:04
  And
• 18:05
  whatever
• 18:06
  version
• 18:06
  of
• 18:07
  that
• 18:07
  people
• 18:07
  choose
• 18:09
  to
• 18:10
  kind
• 18:10
  of
• 18:11
  help
• 18:11
  me
• 18:11
  to
• 18:11
  understand
• 18:12
  what
• 18:12
  I
• 18:12
  can
• 18:13
  control
• 18:13
  and
• 18:14
  what
• 18:14
  I
• 18:14
  can't
• 18:15
  control.
• 18:16
  Practice
• 18:17
  that
• 18:18
  for
• 18:18
  two
• 18:19
  weeks,
• 18:20
  and
• 18:20
  perhaps.
• 18:21
  You
• 18:21
  could
• 18:21
  just
• 18:21
  give
• 18:21
  us
• 18:21
  the
• 18:22
  Equanimity
• 18:22
  prayer
• 18:23
  may
• 18:24
  not
• 18:24
  come
• 18:24
  to
• 18:24
  mind.
• 18:24
  Eastie,
• 18:25
  for
• 18:25
  everyone.
• 18:26
  Let's
• 18:27
  see
• 18:27
  if
• 18:27
  I
• 18:27
  can
• 18:27
  remember
• 18:27
  it.
• 18:28
  God,
• 18:29
  give
• 18:29
  me
• 18:29
  the
• 18:29
  wisdom,
• 18:30
  know
• 18:31
  the
• 18:31
  things
• 18:31
  that
• 18:31
  I
• 18:31
  can
• 18:32
  change
• 18:32
  and
• 18:32
  the
• 18:32
  things
• 18:32
  I
• 18:33
  can't,
• 18:33
  and
• 18:33
  the
• 18:34
  wisdom
• 18:34
  to
• 18:34
  know
• 18:34
  the
• 18:34
  difference.
• 18:35
  So
• 18:36
  what
• 18:36
  am
• 18:36
  I
• 18:36
  supposed
• 18:36
  to
• 18:36
  do?
• 18:37
  What
• 18:37
  can
• 18:37
  I
• 18:37
  do?
• 18:37
  And
• 18:38
  how
• 18:38
  do
• 18:38
  I.
• 18:39
  How
• 18:39
  do
• 18:39
  I
• 18:39
  have
• 18:39
  the
• 18:39
  wisdom
• 18:40
  to
• 18:40
  see
• 18:40
  what
• 18:41
  that
• 18:41
  might
• 18:41
  be?
• 18:41
  And
• 18:42
  that's
• 18:42
  kind
• 18:42
  of
• 18:42
  paraphrased,
• 18:43
  but
• 18:43
  that's
• 18:43
  the
• 18:43
  general.
• 18:44
  The
• 18:45
  seed
• 18:45
  of
• 18:45
  the
• 18:45
  idea.
• 18:47
  So
• 18:48
  in
• 18:48
  my
• 18:48
  book,
• 18:48
  I
• 18:49
  offer
• 18:49
  a
• 18:49
  version
• 18:50
  without
• 18:50
  God.
• 18:51
  So
• 18:52
  some
• 18:52
  people
• 18:53
  like
• 18:53
  God,
• 18:53
  some
• 18:53
  people
• 18:54
  don't
• 18:54
  like
• 18:54
  the
• 18:54
  idea
• 18:55
  of
• 18:55
  God.
• 18:56
  Yeah.
• 18:56
  Buddhists
• 18:57
  don't
• 18:57
  do
• 18:57
  God,
• 18:57
  so
• 18:58
  that's
• 18:58
  okay.
• 18:59
  So
• 18:59
  you
• 19:00
  could
• 19:00
  just
• 19:00
  say,
• 19:01
  may
• 19:01
  I
• 19:02
  understand,
• 19:04
  you
• 19:04
  know,
• 19:04
  what
• 19:04
  I
• 19:05
  can
• 19:05
  control.
• 19:06
  So
• 19:07
  I
• 19:07
  think
• 19:07
  the
• 19:07
  surrender
• 19:08
  piece
• 19:08
  is
• 19:08
  beautiful.
• 19:09
  If
• 19:09
  it
• 19:09
  works
• 19:09
  for
• 19:09
  you,
• 19:10
  please
• 19:10
  do
• 19:10
  that.
• 19:11
  If
• 19:11
  it
• 19:11
  doesn't,
• 19:11
  you
• 19:12
  don't
• 19:12
  have
• 19:12
  to.
• 19:13
  But
• 19:13
  may
• 19:14
  I
• 19:14
  have
• 19:14
  the
• 19:15
  wisdom
• 19:16
  to
• 19:16
  remember
• 19:16
  or
• 19:17
  to
• 19:17
  see
• 19:18
  what
• 19:18
  I
• 19:19
  can
• 19:19
  control
• 19:19
  and
• 19:20
  what
• 19:20
  I
• 19:20
  can't.
• 19:21
  And
• 19:21
  especially
• 19:22
  now,
• 19:23
  given
• 19:23
  what's
• 19:24
  going
• 19:24
  on
• 19:24
  in
• 19:24
  the
• 19:24
  world,
• 19:25
  we
• 19:25
  want
• 19:25
  to
• 19:25
  take
• 19:26
  action.
• 19:26
  We
• 19:26
  feel
• 19:27
  overwhelmed,
• 19:27
  to
• 19:28
  remind
• 19:28
  ourselves,
• 19:29
  you
• 19:29
  know,
• 19:30
  what
• 19:30
  can
• 19:31
  we
• 19:31
  do?
• 19:31
  What
• 19:32
  can't
• 19:32
  we
• 19:32
  do?
• 19:32
  And
• 19:33
  to
• 19:33
  rest
• 19:34
  with
• 19:34
  that
• 19:35
  understanding,
• 19:36
  to
• 19:36
  find
• 19:36
  some
• 19:36
  peace
• 19:37
  there.
• 19:37
  Thank
• 19:38
  you.
• 19:38
  And
• 19:39
  that's
• 19:40
  beautiful.
• 19:40
  Yeah,
• 19:41
  thank
• 19:41
  you.
• 19:41
  And
• 19:41
  there's
• 19:43
  another
• 19:43
  version,
• 19:44
  which
• 19:44
  I
• 19:45
  don't
• 19:45
  think
• 19:45
  I
• 19:45
  can
• 19:45
  quite
• 19:45
  pull
• 19:46
  up,
• 19:46
  but
• 19:46
  maybe
• 19:48
  among
• 19:48
  the
• 19:48
  three
• 19:48
  of
• 19:48
  us,
• 19:48
  we
• 19:49
  can
• 19:49
  get
• 19:49
  this.
• 19:50
  Lord,
• 19:51
  give
• 19:51
  me
• 19:51
  the
• 19:52
  understanding
• 19:52
  to
• 19:53
  accept
• 19:53
  those
• 19:54
  I
• 19:54
  cannot
• 19:54
  change,
• 19:55
  the
• 19:55
  strength
• 19:56
  to
• 19:56
  change
• 19:57
  the
• 19:57
  one
• 19:57
  I
• 19:57
  can,
• 19:58
  and
• 19:58
  the
• 19:58
  wisdom
• 19:59
  to
• 19:59
  know
• 19:59
  that
• 19:59
  the
• 19:59
  one
• 19:59
  I
• 20:00
  can
• 20:00
  is
• 20:00
  me.
• 20:04
  Oh,
• 20:04
  that's
• 20:05
  wonderful.
• 20:06
  Wow.
• 20:07
  All
• 20:08
  right.
• 20:08
  I've
• 20:08
  never
• 20:09
  heard
• 20:09
  that
• 20:09
  before.
• 20:11
  It's
• 20:11
  a
• 20:12
  raven.
• 20:14
  That's
• 20:15
  a
• 20:15
  good
• 20:15
  one.
• 20:16
  Yeah,
• 20:16
  it's
• 20:17
  a
• 20:17
  good
• 20:17
  one.
• 20:17
  Well,
• 20:18
  I'm
• 20:18
  sure
• 20:18
  there
• 20:18
  are
• 20:18
  a
• 20:18
  lot
• 20:18
  of
• 20:19
  variations
• 20:19
  that
• 20:20
  people
• 20:20
  can
• 20:21
  play
• 20:21
  with
• 20:22
  and,
• 20:22
  you
• 20:23
  know,
• 20:24
  to
• 20:24
  kind
• 20:25
  of
• 20:25
  be
• 20:25
  willing
• 20:25
  to
• 20:25
  experiment.
• 20:26
  And
• 20:27
  I
• 20:28
  always
• 20:28
  encourage
• 20:29
  people
• 20:29
  not
• 20:29
  to
• 20:29
  get
• 20:30
  hung
• 20:30
  up
• 20:30
  on
• 20:30
  any
• 20:31
  particular
• 20:31
  phrasing,
• 20:32
  to
• 20:33
  really
• 20:33
  change
• 20:34
  the
• 20:34
  language
• 20:35
  so
• 20:35
  that
• 20:35
  it
• 20:35
  fits
• 20:36
  for
• 20:36
  your
• 20:37
  unique
• 20:38
  frame
• 20:38
  of
• 20:38
  reference
• 20:39
  and
• 20:39
  circumstances
• 20:40
  in
• 20:40
  the
• 20:40
  moment.
• 20:41
  It's
• 20:42
  just
• 20:42
  a
• 20:42
  finger
• 20:42
  pointing
• 20:43
  to
• 20:43
  the
• 20:43
  moon.
• 20:44
  So
• 20:44
  there's
• 20:44
  nothing
• 20:44
  sacred
• 20:45
  about
• 20:45
  the
• 20:45
  words.
• 20:46
  You
• 20:47
  know,
• 20:47
  really.
• 20:47
  We're
• 20:48
  just
• 20:48
  aiming
• 20:49
  for
• 20:49
  a
• 20:49
  way
• 20:49
  to
• 20:50
  remember.
• 20:51
  Ah,
• 20:52
  right.
• 20:53
  You
• 20:53
  know,
• 20:54
  with
• 20:54
  our
• 20:55
  children,
• 20:56
  you
• 20:56
  know,
• 20:56
  I'm
• 20:57
  not
• 20:57
  totally
• 20:58
  in
• 20:58
  charge
• 20:59
  of
• 20:59
  her
• 20:59
  happiness,
• 21:00
  where
• 21:01
  the
• 21:01
  places
• 21:01
  that
• 21:02
  are
• 21:02
  really
• 21:02
  sticky,
• 21:03
  you
• 21:04
  know,
• 21:04
  with
• 21:05
  what's
• 21:05
  going
• 21:06
  on
• 21:06
  in
• 21:06
  Washington.
• 21:07
  What
• 21:08
  can
• 21:08
  I
• 21:08
  do?
• 21:08
  Oh,
• 21:08
  I
• 21:08
  can
• 21:09
  do
• 21:09
  this
• 21:09
  piece.
• 21:10
  That's
• 21:10
  it.
• 21:10
  That's
• 21:11
  what
• 21:11
  I
• 21:11
  can
• 21:11
  do.
• 21:12
  And
• 21:12
  to
• 21:12
  find
• 21:13
  some
• 21:13
  relief
• 21:14
  there.
• 21:14
  And
• 21:15
  then
• 21:16
  in
• 21:16
  that,
• 21:17
  you
• 21:17
  know,
• 21:18
  for
• 21:18
  me,
• 21:18
  when
• 21:18
  I
• 21:18
  say
• 21:19
  those
• 21:19
  words,
• 21:19
  I
• 21:20
  feel
• 21:20
  my
• 21:20
  shoulders
• 21:21
  drop,
• 21:22
  I
• 21:22
  feel
• 21:22
  the
• 21:23
  contraction
• 21:24
  ease.
• 21:26
  And
• 21:26
  then
• 21:26
  in
• 21:27
  that
• 21:27
  moment
• 21:28
  of
• 21:29
  resting,
• 21:31
  finding
• 21:32
  perspective
• 21:32
  again.
• 21:33
  Ah,
• 21:34
  yes.
• 21:34
  Okay,
• 21:36
  here.
• 21:36
  Now,
• 21:37
  with
• 21:37
  this
• 21:38
  no
• 21:39
  longer
• 21:40
  in
• 21:40
  the
• 21:40
  trance,
• 21:42
  you
• 21:42
  know
• 21:42
  the
• 21:42
  word
• 21:43
  that
• 21:43
  Roger
• 21:44
  picked
• 21:44
  up
• 21:45
  just
• 21:45
  for
• 21:45
  a
• 21:46
  moment,
• 21:46
  you
• 21:46
  know,
• 21:47
  whether
• 21:47
  it's
• 21:48
  humor
• 21:49
  or
• 21:49
  however
• 21:50
  it
• 21:50
  is
• 21:50
  that
• 21:50
  we
• 21:51
  recognize
• 21:52
  the
• 21:52
  limits
• 21:53
  of
• 21:53
  our
• 21:53
  control,
• 21:55
  the
• 21:55
  ego's
• 21:56
  control,
• 21:56
  whatever
• 21:57
  we
• 21:57
  want
• 21:57
  to
• 21:57
  call
• 21:57
  that.
• 21:59
  Yeah.
• 21:59
  So
• 21:59
  that
• 21:59
  we
• 21:59
  could
• 22:00
  act
• 22:00
  in
• 22:00
  an
• 22:00
  appropriate
• 22:01
  way.
• 22:01
  Yes,
• 22:02
  exactly.
• 22:03
  To
• 22:03
  meet
• 22:03
  the
• 22:03
  conditions.
• 22:04
  So
• 22:04
  that
• 22:04
  we
• 22:04
  become
• 22:05
  part
• 22:05
  of
• 22:06
  the
• 22:06
  possible
• 22:06
  solution
• 22:07
  and
• 22:07
  not
• 22:07
  just
• 22:07
  add
• 22:08
  fuel
• 22:08
  to
• 22:09
  the
• 22:09
  fire.
• 22:10
  Exactly,
• 22:11
  exactly.
• 22:12
  And,
• 22:12
  Margaret,
• 22:13
  you
• 22:14
  just
• 22:14
  touched
• 22:14
  on
• 22:14
  something
• 22:15
  which
• 22:15
  is
• 22:15
  something
• 22:15
  you
• 22:16
  obviously
• 22:16
  bring
• 22:17
  into
• 22:17
  your
• 22:17
  book,
• 22:17
  Quiet
• 22:18
  Strength.
• 22:18
  But
• 22:19
  we
• 22:19
  haven't
• 22:19
  talked
• 22:19
  about
• 22:19
  much
• 22:20
  here,
• 22:20
  and
• 22:20
  that
• 22:20
  is
• 22:21
  the.
• 22:22
  Some
• 22:22
  of
• 22:22
  the
• 22:22
  advanced
• 22:23
  practice
• 22:24
  practices
• 22:25
  for
• 22:25
  equanimity,
• 22:26
  like
• 22:27
  one's
• 22:27
  partner.
• 22:30
  Do
• 22:30
  you
• 22:30
  have
• 22:30
  any
• 22:31
  tips
• 22:31
  for
• 22:34
  partners
• 22:34
  and
• 22:35
  family?
• 22:38
  Well,
• 22:38
  if
• 22:39
  my
• 22:39
  daughter,
• 22:40
  my
• 22:40
  adult
• 22:40
  daughter
• 22:41
  is
• 22:41
  listening
• 22:41
  right
• 22:42
  now,
• 22:42
  she's
• 22:43
  smiling
• 22:44
  kind
• 22:45
  of
• 22:45
  smugly,
• 22:46
  perhaps
• 22:47
  because
• 22:48
  I
• 22:48
  lost
• 22:48
  my
• 22:48
  temper
• 22:49
  a
• 22:49
  few
• 22:49
  weeks
• 22:49
  ago.
• 22:50
  Yeah.
• 22:51
  So
• 22:51
  that
• 22:51
  is
• 22:52
  advanced
• 22:52
  practice
• 22:53
  for
• 22:53
  sure.
• 22:55
  You
• 22:55
  know,
• 22:56
  an
• 22:56
  interesting
• 22:58
  thing
• 22:59
  that
• 22:59
  I
• 22:59
  discovered
• 23:00
  about
• 23:00
  equanimity,
• 23:01
  and
• 23:02
  I
• 23:02
  put
• 23:02
  in
• 23:02
  a
• 23:03
  little
• 23:03
  plea
• 23:03
  in
• 23:03
  my
• 23:03
  book
• 23:04
  for
• 23:04
  researchers
• 23:05
  in
• 23:05
  the
• 23:05
  future,
• 23:06
  if
• 23:06
  they
• 23:06
  start
• 23:06
  measuring
• 23:07
  it,
• 23:08
  to
• 23:08
  look
• 23:08
  at
• 23:09
  recovery
• 23:09
  time
• 23:11
  rather
• 23:11
  than
• 23:13
  try
• 23:13
  to
• 23:13
  assess
• 23:15
  some
• 23:15
  false
• 23:16
  ideal
• 23:16
  of
• 23:17
  stasis,
• 23:18
  that
• 23:18
  equanimity
• 23:19
  is
• 23:19
  about
• 23:19
  maintaining
• 23:20
  something
• 23:21
  and
• 23:21
  instead
• 23:22
  to
• 23:22
  look
• 23:22
  at
• 23:22
  recovery
• 23:23
  time
• 23:24
  like
• 23:24
  those
• 23:24
  adepts
• 23:25
  that
• 23:26
  Richie
• 23:26
  Davidson
• 23:27
  studied.
• 23:28
  So,
• 23:28
  yes,
• 23:28
  we
• 23:28
  have
• 23:29
  a
• 23:29
  big
• 23:29
  reaction,
• 23:30
  but
• 23:30
  how
• 23:30
  quickly
• 23:31
  do
• 23:31
  we
• 23:31
  recover?
• 23:33
  So
• 23:34
  occasionally
• 23:34
  the
• 23:35
  reaction
• 23:35
  is
• 23:36
  so
• 23:36
  big
• 23:36
  that
• 23:36
  it
• 23:36
  spills
• 23:37
  out
• 23:38
  into
• 23:38
  the
• 23:38
  world
• 23:40
  because
• 23:40
  we're
• 23:40
  human.
• 23:43
  And
• 23:44
  what
• 23:44
  I've
• 23:45
  noticed
• 23:45
  for
• 23:45
  myself
• 23:46
  is
• 23:47
  that
• 23:49
  what
• 23:49
  aids
• 23:50
  in
• 23:50
  my
• 23:51
  equanimity
• 23:52
  more
• 23:52
  than
• 23:53
  anything
• 23:53
  else
• 23:54
  is
• 23:54
  self
• 23:54
  forgiveness.
• 23:57
  My
• 23:57
  recovery
• 23:58
  time
• 23:59
  is
• 23:59
  so
• 23:59
  much
• 24:00
  quicker
• 24:01
  when
• 24:01
  I
• 24:01
  can
• 24:01
  forgive
• 24:02
  myself.
• 24:03
  So
• 24:04
  that
• 24:05
  becomes
• 24:06
  a
• 24:06
  kind
• 24:07
  of
• 24:07
  funny
• 24:07
  equanimity
• 24:08
  tool.
• 24:10
  So
• 24:12
  I
• 24:12
  believe,
• 24:13
  and
• 24:14
  this
• 24:14
  is
• 24:14
  kind
• 24:15
  of
• 24:16
  maybe
• 24:17
  a
• 24:17
  radical
• 24:17
  idea.
• 24:20
  I
• 24:20
  don't
• 24:20
  know
• 24:20
  how
• 24:20
  far
• 24:21
  afield
• 24:21
  we
• 24:21
  want
• 24:21
  to
• 24:22
  go
• 24:22
  here
• 24:22
  from
• 24:22
  equanimity,
• 24:23
  but
• 24:24
  I
• 24:24
  was
• 24:24
  on
• 24:24
  a
• 24:25
  panel
• 24:25
  at
• 24:25
  a
• 24:25
  big
• 24:25
  conference
• 24:26
  on
• 24:26
  relationships
• 24:28
  a
• 24:28
  number
• 24:28
  of
• 24:28
  years
• 24:29
  ago
• 24:29
  with
• 24:29
  therapists,
• 24:32
  and
• 24:32
  they
• 24:32
  were
• 24:32
  talking
• 24:32
  about
• 24:33
  trust.
• 24:33
  And
• 24:34
  everybody
• 24:34
  said,
• 24:34
  oh,
• 24:35
  trust
• 24:35
  is
• 24:35
  the
• 24:35
  most
• 24:36
  important
• 24:36
  thing
• 24:36
  in
• 24:36
  a
• 24:36
  relationship.
• 24:37
  And
• 24:38
  all
• 24:38
  the
• 24:38
  therapists
• 24:39
  agreed.
• 24:39
  And
• 24:40
  then
• 24:40
  I
• 24:40
  was
• 24:40
  the
• 24:40
  last
• 24:41
  one,
• 24:42
  and
• 24:42
  I
• 24:42
  said,
• 24:42
  you
• 24:42
  know,
• 24:43
  I
• 24:43
  don't
• 24:43
  think
• 24:44
  trust
• 24:44
  is
• 24:44
  the
• 24:44
  most
• 24:45
  important
• 24:45
  thing.
• 24:46
  I
• 24:46
  think
• 24:47
  forgiveness
• 24:47
  is.
• 24:49
  I
• 24:49
  think
• 24:49
  that
• 24:50
  we
• 24:50
  lose
• 24:51
  it.
• 24:52
  We
• 24:52
  lose
• 24:53
  it.
• 24:53
  It
• 24:53
  happens.
• 24:55
  And,
• 24:56
  you
• 24:57
  know,
• 24:58
  there's
• 24:58
  no
• 24:59
  to
• 24:59
  kind
• 24:59
  of
• 25:00
  strive
• 25:00
  for.
• 25:00
  Some
• 25:01
  ideal
• 25:01
  of
• 25:02
  equanimity
• 25:03
  is
• 25:05
  a
• 25:05
  tyranny
• 25:06
  that
• 25:06
  can
• 25:06
  produce
• 25:07
  its
• 25:07
  opposite.
• 25:09
  And
• 25:10
  some
• 25:10
  of
• 25:10
  us
• 25:10
  are
• 25:11
  equanimous
• 25:12
  by
• 25:12
  nature.
• 25:13
  There's
• 25:14
  trade,
• 25:14
  equanimity.
• 25:16
  Lovely.
• 25:17
  I'm
• 25:17
  a
• 25:17
  bit
• 25:18
  envious
• 25:18
  of
• 25:18
  you.
• 25:19
  I
• 25:19
  bow
• 25:20
  to
• 25:20
  you.
• 25:20
  It's
• 25:21
  wonderful.
• 25:22
  Enjoy
• 25:22
  it.
• 25:23
  And,
• 25:23
  you
• 25:23
  know,
• 25:24
  by
• 25:24
  all
• 25:25
  means,
• 25:25
  don't
• 25:26
  change
• 25:26
  a
• 25:27
  thing.
• 25:28
  Some
• 25:28
  of
• 25:28
  us
• 25:28
  are
• 25:29
  more
• 25:29
  volatile
• 25:29
  by
• 25:30
  nature,
• 25:31
  and
• 25:34
  I
• 25:34
  certainly
• 25:35
  don't
• 25:36
  get
• 25:36
  as
• 25:36
  angry
• 25:36
  over
• 25:37
  time
• 25:38
  with
• 25:38
  different
• 25:39
  practices
• 25:39
  that
• 25:40
  I
• 25:40
  do,
• 25:40
  but
• 25:40
  I
• 25:40
  still
• 25:41
  get
• 25:41
  angry
• 25:42
  and
• 25:42
  I
• 25:42
  lost
• 25:42
  it
• 25:42
  a
• 25:42
  couple
• 25:43
  weeks
• 25:43
  ago.
• 25:44
  So
• 25:46
  forgiveness
• 25:47
  lets
• 25:48
  me
• 25:48
  recover
• 25:49
  equanimity
• 25:51
  really
• 25:51
  quickly.
• 25:52
  I
• 25:52
  forgive
• 25:53
  myself,
• 25:53
  then
• 25:53
  I
• 25:54
  can
• 25:54
  apologize,
• 25:55
  I
• 25:55
  can
• 25:55
  take
• 25:56
  responsibility.
• 25:57
  I'm
• 25:57
  not
• 25:57
  defensive
• 25:58
  anymore.
• 25:59
  I'm
• 25:59
  just
• 25:59
  another
• 26:00
  bozo
• 26:00
  on
• 26:01
  the
• 26:01
  bus
• 26:01
  doing
• 26:02
  my
• 26:02
  best.
• 26:03
  And
• 26:03
  it's
• 26:03
  a
• 26:03
  great
• 26:03
  aid
• 26:04
  in
• 26:04
  forgiving
• 26:04
  others
• 26:05
  if
• 26:05
  you
• 26:05
  can
• 26:05
  forgive
• 26:05
  yourself.
• 26:06
  Boy,
• 26:07
  that's
• 26:07
  a
• 26:07
  hard
• 26:07
  one.
• 26:08
  But
• 26:08
  I
• 26:08
  find
• 26:08
  that
• 26:08
  if
• 26:09
  I've
• 26:09
  forgiven
• 26:09
  myself,
• 26:09
  I
• 26:10
  go,
• 26:10
  this
• 26:10
  is,
• 26:10
  you
• 26:11
  know,
• 26:11
  have
• 26:11
  I
• 26:11
  done
• 26:12
  similar
• 26:12
  stuff?
• 26:12
  Could
• 26:12
  I.
• 26:13
  Yes.
• 26:13
  It
• 26:13
  makes
• 26:14
  it
• 26:14
  much
• 26:14
  easier
• 26:14
  to
• 26:15
  accept
• 26:15
  the.
• 26:16
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  The
• 26:17
  behaviors
• 26:18
  of
• 26:18
  others
• 26:18
  that
• 26:18
  offend
• 26:18
  and
• 26:19
  hurt
• 26:19
  us.
• 26:20
  I
• 26:21
  do
• 26:21
  think
• 26:22
  it's
• 26:23
  dangerous
• 26:24
  to.
• 26:26
  I
• 26:26
  think
• 26:26
  a
• 26:26
  lot
• 26:26
  of
• 26:26
  us
• 26:27
  suffer
• 26:27
  from
• 26:29
  imposing
• 26:30
  unattainable
• 26:32
  ideals
• 26:33
  and
• 26:33
  expectations
• 26:34
  on
• 26:34
  how
• 26:35
  we
• 26:35
  should
• 26:35
  be
• 26:35
  in
• 26:35
  relationship
• 26:37
  and
• 26:38
  often
• 26:39
  softening
• 26:40
  there
• 26:41
  where
• 26:41
  it's
• 26:42
  the
• 26:42
  hardest,
• 26:42
  where
• 26:43
  we're
• 26:43
  the
• 26:43
  most
• 26:43
  triggered,
• 26:44
  you
• 26:44
  know,
• 26:45
  we're
• 26:45
  the
• 26:45
  most
• 26:46
  invested.
• 26:48
  To
• 26:48
  me,
• 26:48
  softening
• 26:49
  helps
• 26:50
  more
• 26:51
  than
• 26:52
  imposing
• 26:53
  an
• 26:54
  ideal
• 26:54
  of
• 26:54
  how
• 26:55
  we
• 26:55
  should
• 26:55
  be.
• 26:57
  That
• 26:57
  may
• 26:57
  not
• 26:57
  be
• 26:58
  the
• 26:58
  answer
• 26:58
  you
• 26:58
  were
• 26:59
  looking
• 26:59
  for,
• 26:59
  but.
• 27:00
  Well,
• 27:01
  they're
• 27:01
  important
• 27:02
  answers
• 27:02
  and
• 27:02
  there
• 27:02
  are
• 27:02
  several
• 27:03
  in
• 27:03
  there
• 27:03
  and
• 27:03
  I
• 27:03
  just
• 27:03
  want
• 27:04
  to
• 27:04
  pull
• 27:04
  some
• 27:04
  of
• 27:04
  them
• 27:04
  out
• 27:05
  because
• 27:06
  you
• 27:06
  gave
• 27:06
  a
• 27:06
  specific
• 27:07
  example
• 27:07
  of
• 27:07
  a
• 27:08
  general
• 27:08
  principle
• 27:09
  that
• 27:10
  when
• 27:10
  we
• 27:10
  have
• 27:11
  an
• 27:11
  emotional
• 27:11
  reaction,
• 27:12
  if
• 27:12
  we
• 27:12
  judge
• 27:13
  or
• 27:13
  condemn
• 27:13
  it,
• 27:14
  it
• 27:14
  just
• 27:15
  solidifies
• 27:16
  it
• 27:16
  and
• 27:17
  exacerbates
• 27:18
  it.
• 27:18
  Makes
• 27:18
  it
• 27:19
  much
• 27:19
  harder
• 27:19
  to
• 27:20
  let
• 27:20
  go
• 27:20
  of.
• 27:21
  So
• 27:21
  the.
• 27:22
  And
• 27:22
  we
• 27:23
  have
• 27:23
  to.
• 27:24
  So
• 27:24
  hence.
• 27:25
  Hence
• 27:25
  your
• 27:25
  point
• 27:26
  about
• 27:26
  self
• 27:26
  forgiveness.
• 27:27
  So.
• 27:27
  And
• 27:28
  you
• 27:28
  also
• 27:28
  mentioned
• 27:29
  the
• 27:29
  importance
• 27:29
  of
• 27:29
  the
• 27:30
  trap
• 27:30
  of
• 27:31
  unrealistic
• 27:32
  ideals
• 27:33
  or
• 27:33
  making
• 27:33
  ideals
• 27:34
  into
• 27:34
  shoulds,
• 27:35
  which,
• 27:36
  you
• 27:36
  know,
• 27:36
  can
• 27:36
  be
• 27:37
  tyrannous.
• 27:37
  So.
• 27:38
  So
• 27:38
  that
• 27:39
  very
• 27:39
  important.
• 27:40
  And,
• 27:40
  and
• 27:41
  yeah.
• 27:41
  And
• 27:41
  this
• 27:42
  whole
• 27:42
  area,
• 27:43
  you
• 27:43
  know,
• 27:45
  the
• 27:45
  relationships
• 27:46
  of
• 27:46
  the
• 27:46
  advanced
• 27:47
  practice,
• 27:48
  you
• 27:48
  know,
• 27:48
  I
• 27:49
  come
• 27:49
  back
• 27:49
  from
• 27:49
  a
• 27:49
  three
• 27:50
  month
• 27:50
  retreat
• 27:50
  and
• 27:51
  it
• 27:51
  was
• 27:51
  like,
• 27:51
  could
• 27:51
  just
• 27:52
  be
• 27:52
  a
• 27:52
  few
• 27:52
  hours.
• 27:53
  I'm
• 27:53
  like,
• 27:53
  what?
• 27:54
  So
• 27:56
  my
• 27:57
  wife
• 27:57
  had
• 27:57
  it
• 27:57
  down
• 27:57
  and
• 27:58
  she
• 27:58
  said
• 27:58
  once
• 27:59
  she
• 27:59
  had
• 27:59
  the
• 27:59
  equanimity
• 28:00
  thing
• 28:00
  with
• 28:01
  me
• 28:01
  down
• 28:01
  very
• 28:01
  well.
• 28:01
  She
• 28:02
  said
• 28:02
  once,
• 28:03
  Roger,
• 28:04
  only
• 28:04
  one
• 28:04
  of
• 28:04
  us
• 28:04
  can
• 28:05
  afford
• 28:05
  to
• 28:05
  take
• 28:05
  you
• 28:06
  seriously
• 28:06
  in
• 28:06
  this
• 28:07
  relationship
• 28:07
  and
• 28:07
  it's
• 28:07
  not
• 28:08
  going
• 28:08
  to
• 28:08
  be
• 28:08
  me.
• 28:09
  That's
• 28:09
  beautiful.
• 28:11
  Oh,
• 28:11
  well
• 28:11
  done,
• 28:12
  Francis.
• 28:12
  That's
• 28:13
  great.
• 28:14
  I
• 28:14
  love
• 28:14
  it.
• 28:15
  I
• 28:15
  love
• 28:16
  it.
• 28:16
  Yes,
• 28:17
  we
• 28:17
  have
• 28:17
  put
• 28:17
  our
• 28:18
  partners
• 28:18
  through
• 28:18
  a
• 28:18
  lot,
• 28:19
  coming
• 28:19
  back
• 28:19
  from
• 28:20
  all
• 28:20
  those
• 28:20
  silent
• 28:20
  retreats
• 28:21
  and
• 28:21
  with
• 28:22
  our
• 28:23
  yogi
• 28:23
  minds
• 28:24
  and.
• 28:25
  Yeah.
• 28:26
  So
• 28:26
  humor
• 28:28
  and
• 28:28
  you
• 28:28
  know,
• 28:29
  Roger,
• 28:30
  you
• 28:30
  were
• 28:30
  one
• 28:30
  of
• 28:31
  the
• 28:31
  first
• 28:31
  people
• 28:31
  I
• 28:31
  consulted
• 28:32
  about
• 28:33
  equanimity
• 28:34
  and
• 28:34
  you
• 28:34
  were
• 28:35
  so
• 28:35
  generous.
• 28:36
  You
• 28:36
  gave
• 28:36
  me
• 28:37
  like
• 28:37
  all
• 28:38
  these
• 28:38
  notes
• 28:39
  and
• 28:39
  quotes
• 28:39
  you
• 28:40
  had
• 28:40
  gathered
• 28:40
  and
• 28:41
  you
• 28:41
  just
• 28:43
  gave
• 28:43
  it
• 28:43
  to
• 28:43
  me.
• 28:44
  Here,
• 28:44
  use
• 28:45
  this
• 28:45
  as
• 28:45
  if
• 28:45
  it's
• 28:45
  of
• 28:46
  value
• 28:46
  to
• 28:46
  you.
• 28:47
  And
• 28:47
  we
• 28:48
  talked
• 28:48
  about
• 28:48
  it
• 28:48
  over
• 28:48
  lunch,
• 28:49
  I
• 28:49
  think
• 28:49
  one
• 28:49
  day,
• 28:50
  and
• 28:51
  you
• 28:51
  were
• 28:51
  talking
• 28:52
  about
• 28:54
  this
• 28:54
  flavor
• 28:55
  of
• 28:55
  equanimity
• 28:56
  we
• 28:56
  haven't
• 28:56
  covered
• 28:56
  in
• 28:57
  the
• 28:57
  call,
• 28:57
  which
• 28:57
  is
• 28:57
  non
• 28:58
  defensiveness,
• 29:00
  which
• 29:00
  is
• 29:00
  really
• 29:01
  key.
• 29:02
  And
• 29:02
  I
• 29:03
  think
• 29:03
  what
• 29:03
  forgiveness
• 29:04
  helps
• 29:05
  us
• 29:06
  kind
• 29:06
  of
• 29:06
  drop
• 29:07
  into
• 29:07
  non
• 29:07
  defensiveness,
• 29:09
  which
• 29:09
  is
• 29:10
  so
• 29:10
  important
• 29:11
  in
• 29:11
  relationships.
• 29:12
  You
• 29:13
  know,
• 29:13
  when
• 29:13
  we
• 29:13
  don't
• 29:13
  forgive
• 29:14
  ourselves,
• 29:14
  we
• 29:15
  stay
• 29:15
  defensive,
• 29:15
  we
• 29:16
  stay
• 29:16
  defended
• 29:16
  and
• 29:17
  armored,
• 29:18
  and
• 29:18
  then
• 29:19
  we
• 29:19
  can't
• 29:19
  progress,
• 29:20
  really.
• 29:22
  And
• 29:22
  when
• 29:23
  we
• 29:23
  do
• 29:23
  something
• 29:24
  that's
• 29:25
  not
• 29:25
  good,
• 29:26
  asking
• 29:27
  the
• 29:27
  person
• 29:27
  to
• 29:27
  forgive
• 29:27
  us
• 29:28
  who
• 29:28
  we
• 29:28
  offend
• 29:28
  it,
• 29:29
  you
• 29:29
  know,
• 29:29
  and
• 29:30
  that
• 29:31
  really
• 29:31
  helps
• 29:32
  a
• 29:32
  lot.
• 29:33
  I
• 29:34
  was
• 29:34
  at
• 29:34
  a
• 29:34
  gas
• 29:34
  station.
• 29:35
  I
• 29:35
  was
• 29:35
  trying
• 29:35
  to
• 29:35
  get
• 29:35
  quarters
• 29:36
  so
• 29:36
  I
• 29:36
  could
• 29:36
  put
• 29:37
  air
• 29:37
  in
• 29:38
  my
• 29:38
  tires.
• 29:38
  And
• 29:39
  this
• 29:39
  poor
• 29:40
  young
• 29:40
  woman,
• 29:40
  I
• 29:40
  think
• 29:40
  she
• 29:41
  was
• 29:41
  from
• 29:41
  India
• 29:41
  or
• 29:41
  something,
• 29:42
  and
• 29:42
  she
• 29:42
  didn't
• 29:43
  have
• 29:43
  any
• 29:43
  quarters.
• 29:43
  And
• 29:43
  I
• 29:43
  went,
• 29:44
  oh,
• 29:44
  forget
• 29:44
  it,
• 29:45
  you
• 29:45
  know,
• 29:45
  and
• 29:45
  I
• 29:45
  left
• 29:46
  my
• 29:46
  drink
• 29:46
  and
• 29:46
  I
• 29:46
  didn't
• 29:47
  buy
• 29:47
  it
• 29:47
  and
• 29:47
  everything.
• 29:47
  And
• 29:47
  so
• 29:47
  then
• 29:48
  I
• 29:48
  went
• 29:48
  to
• 29:48
  the
• 29:48
  bank
• 29:48
  and
• 29:49
  got
• 29:49
  quarters
• 29:50
  for
• 29:51
  the
• 29:51
  air
• 29:51
  pump.
• 29:52
  And
• 29:52
  I
• 29:52
  came
• 29:53
  back
• 29:53
  and
• 29:53
  I
• 29:53
  said,
• 29:53
  I'm
• 29:53
  sorry,
• 29:55
  that
• 29:55
  was
• 29:55
  not
• 29:55
  your
• 29:55
  fault,
• 29:57
  you
• 29:57
  know.
• 29:57
  And
• 29:57
  she
• 29:57
  said,
• 29:58
  oh,
• 29:58
  no,
• 29:58
  that's
• 29:58
  okay.
• 29:58
  I
• 29:58
  said,
• 29:59
  no,
• 29:59
  it
• 29:59
  wasn't
• 29:59
  okay.
• 29:59
  And
• 30:00
  I
• 30:00
  just
• 30:00
  want
• 30:00
  to
• 30:00
  say
• 30:00
  I'm
• 30:00
  sorry.
• 30:01
  And
• 30:01
  it
• 30:01
  slipped
• 30:02
  a
• 30:02
  burden
• 30:02
  off
• 30:02
  my
• 30:03
  heart.
• 30:03
  It
• 30:03
  felt
• 30:03
  really,
• 30:04
  really,
• 30:04
  really
• 30:04
  good.
• 30:04
  And
• 30:04
  I,
• 30:05
  I
• 30:05
  felt
• 30:05
  a
• 30:06
  lot
• 30:06
  of
• 30:06
  peace
• 30:06
  and
• 30:06
  a
• 30:06
  lot
• 30:06
  of
• 30:07
  joy
• 30:07
  just
• 30:07
  by
• 30:07
  doing
• 30:08
  just
• 30:08
  a
• 30:08
  little
• 30:08
  thing
• 30:08
  like
• 30:09
  that.
• 30:10
  No
• 30:11
  question,
• 30:12
  no
• 30:13
  question.
• 30:13
  And
• 30:14
  then,
• 30:14
  you
• 30:15
  know,
• 30:15
  I
• 30:16
  mean,
• 30:16
  it's
• 30:16
  another
• 30:16
  part
• 30:17
  of
• 30:17
  the
• 30:17
  genius
• 30:17
  of
• 30:18
  the
• 30:18
  12
• 30:18
  step
• 30:18
  program.
• 30:19
  And
• 30:20
  we
• 30:21
  then
• 30:22
  we
• 30:22
  don't
• 30:22
  carry
• 30:23
  the
• 30:23
  weight
• 30:24
  and
• 30:25
  all
• 30:25
  the
• 30:25
  things
• 30:25
  from
• 30:26
  the
• 30:26
  last
• 30:26
  moment
• 30:26
  into
• 30:27
  this
• 30:27
  moment.
• 30:28
  So
• 30:28
  we're
• 30:29
  lighter,
• 30:29
  but
• 30:29
  we're
• 30:29
  also
• 30:30
  wiser,
• 30:31
  we're
• 30:31
  more
• 30:31
  responsive,
• 30:32
  we
• 30:32
  can
• 30:33
  take
• 30:33
  in
• 30:33
  information.
• 30:34
  We
• 30:35
  reclaim
• 30:35
  our
• 30:36
  wisdom
• 30:37
  essentially,
• 30:37
  and
• 30:38
  our
• 30:38
  equanimity.
• 30:39
  Yeah.
• 30:40
  Margaret,
• 30:40
  I'd
• 30:41
  like
• 30:41
  to
• 30:41
  add
• 30:41
  one
• 30:42
  practice
• 30:43
  for
• 30:43
  equanimity
• 30:43
  in
• 30:44
  relationship
• 30:45
  and
• 30:45
  that
• 30:45
  is,
• 30:46
  as
• 30:46
  you
• 30:47
  point
• 30:47
  out,
• 30:48
  we
• 30:48
  all
• 30:48
  lose
• 30:49
  it.
• 30:52
  There
• 30:52
  aren't
• 30:52
  any
• 30:53
  fully
• 30:53
  equanimous
• 30:54
  beings
• 30:54
  or
• 30:55
  I've
• 30:56
  met
• 30:56
  or
• 30:56
  maybe
• 30:56
  there
• 30:57
  are,
• 30:57
  maybe
• 30:57
  there
• 30:57
  are
• 30:57
  couples.
• 30:59
  But
• 30:59
  I'm
• 30:59
  thinking
• 30:59
  of
• 31:00
  actually
• 31:00
  amid
• 31:00
  Ali
• 31:01
  that
• 31:01
  we
• 31:01
  interview,
• 31:02
  who
• 31:02
  probably
• 31:03
  is
• 31:03
  about
• 31:03
  as
• 31:03
  close
• 31:03
  to
• 31:04
  economists
• 31:04
  as
• 31:04
  anyone
• 31:05
  I've
• 31:05
  ever
• 31:05
  met.
• 31:05
  But
• 31:06
  I
• 31:06
  know
• 31:07
  with
• 31:07
  my
• 31:08
  late
• 31:08
  wife
• 31:08
  Francis,
• 31:09
  for
• 31:10
  us
• 31:10
  it
• 31:10
  was
• 31:10
  really
• 31:11
  valuable
• 31:11
  to
• 31:11
  have
• 31:11
  an
• 31:12
  agreed
• 31:12
  on
• 31:13
  emergency
• 31:14
  technique
• 31:16
  if
• 31:16
  that
• 31:17
  either
• 31:17
  of
• 31:17
  us
• 31:17
  could
• 31:18
  request
• 31:18
  we
• 31:18
  use
• 31:19
  if
• 31:20
  we
• 31:20
  got
• 31:21
  inflamed
• 31:21
  in
• 31:22
  any
• 31:22
  way.
• 31:23
  And
• 31:23
  like,
• 31:23
  okay,
• 31:23
  can
• 31:24
  we
• 31:24
  have
• 31:24
  a
• 31:24
  moment
• 31:24
  of
• 31:25
  silence
• 31:25
  or
• 31:25
  can
• 31:25
  we,
• 31:26
  can
• 31:26
  we
• 31:27
  agree
• 31:27
  to
• 31:28
  use
• 31:28
  this
• 31:29
  prayer,
• 31:29
  et
• 31:29
  cetera.
• 31:30
  That
• 31:30
  was
• 31:31
  relationship
• 31:32
  saving.
• 31:33
  Beautiful.
• 31:34
  That's
• 31:35
  so
• 31:35
  wonderful.
• 31:36
  I
• 31:37
  think
• 31:37
  my
• 31:37
  Husband
• 31:37
  and
• 31:37
  I
• 31:39
  did
• 31:39
  that,
• 31:40
  too.
• 31:40
  Although
• 31:41
  it's
• 31:41
  interesting,
• 31:42
  we're
• 31:42
  kind
• 31:43
  of
• 31:43
  this
• 31:44
  old
• 31:45
  couple
• 31:45
  now
• 31:46
  who.
• 31:47
  I
• 31:47
  don't
• 31:47
  know.
• 31:48
  We're
• 31:48
  like
• 31:49
  a
• 31:49
  pair
• 31:49
  of
• 31:49
  old
• 31:49
  shoes.
• 31:50
  We
• 31:50
  don't
• 31:51
  really
• 31:52
  have
• 31:52
  much
• 31:52
  friction
• 31:53
  left,
• 31:54
  but,
• 31:54
  boy,
• 31:54
  we
• 31:55
  had
• 31:55
  a
• 31:55
  lot
• 31:55
  of
• 31:55
  it
• 31:56
  in
• 31:56
  our
• 31:56
  earlier
• 31:56
  years,
• 31:57
  and
• 31:58
  we
• 31:58
  used
• 31:59
  techniques
• 31:59
  like
• 32:00
  that.
• 32:00
  I
• 32:01
  think
• 32:01
  they're
• 32:01
  great.
• 32:01
  I
• 32:02
  think
• 32:02
  any
• 32:02
  technique
• 32:03
  like
• 32:03
  that
• 32:03
  is
• 32:04
  wonderful.
• 32:05
  It's
• 32:05
  a
• 32:05
  timeout,
• 32:06
  really.
• 32:07
  It's
• 32:07
  an
• 32:07
  opportunity
• 32:08
  to
• 32:08
  allow
• 32:09
  the
• 32:10
  peak
• 32:10
  of
• 32:10
  the
• 32:10
  emotion
• 32:11
  to
• 32:11
  arise
• 32:11
  and
• 32:12
  pass
• 32:13
  what
• 32:13
  Paul
• 32:14
  Ekman
• 32:14
  used
• 32:14
  to
• 32:15
  call
• 32:15
  the
• 32:15
  refractory
• 32:16
  period,
• 32:17
  when
• 32:18
  you
• 32:18
  were
• 32:18
  in
• 32:19
  the
• 32:19
  grips
• 32:19
  of
• 32:19
  that
• 32:19
  emotion
• 32:20
  and
• 32:20
  you
• 32:21
  really
• 32:21
  can't
• 32:21
  see
• 32:22
  clearly
• 32:23
  and
• 32:23
  what's
• 32:24
  going
• 32:24
  to
• 32:24
  come
• 32:24
  out
• 32:24
  of
• 32:24
  your
• 32:25
  mouth
• 32:25
  is
• 32:25
  probably
• 32:25
  not
• 32:26
  going
• 32:26
  to
• 32:26
  be
• 32:26
  helpful.
• 32:27
  And,
• 32:27
  you
• 32:28
  know,
• 32:28
  those
• 32:28
  techniques
• 32:29
  are
• 32:29
  great.
• 32:30
  Yeah,
• 32:30
  my.
• 32:31
  My
• 32:31
  wife
• 32:31
  and
• 32:31
  I,
• 32:31
  we.
• 32:32
  Yeah,
• 32:32
  we
• 32:32
  still
• 32:32
  have.
• 32:33
  We
• 32:33
  can.
• 32:34
  She's
• 32:34
  a.
• 32:35
  Anyway,
• 32:36
  she's
• 32:36
  quite
• 32:36
  a
• 32:36
  woman,
• 32:37
  but
• 32:37
  we
• 32:38
  used
• 32:38
  to
• 32:38
  drive
• 32:38
  a
• 32:38
  lot
• 32:39
  between
• 32:40
  Utah
• 32:41
  and
• 32:41
  Louisiana,
• 32:42
  Utah
• 32:42
  and
• 32:42
  Texas.
• 32:43
  So
• 32:43
  we
• 32:43
  spent
• 32:44
  many,
• 32:44
  many
• 32:44
  hours
• 32:44
  on
• 32:45
  the
• 32:45
  road
• 32:45
  together,
• 32:46
  and
• 32:46
  over
• 32:46
  three
• 32:46
  or
• 32:47
  four
• 32:47
  days,
• 32:47
  and
• 32:47
  we'd
• 32:47
  always
• 32:48
  have
• 32:49
  at
• 32:49
  least
• 32:49
  a
• 32:49
  couple
• 32:49
  of
• 32:49
  freakouts.
• 32:50
  And
• 32:50
  I
• 32:50
  said,
• 32:50
  well,
• 32:51
  how
• 32:51
  many
• 32:51
  times
• 32:51
  we're
• 32:51
  gonna
• 32:52
  flip
• 32:52
  out,
• 32:52
  you
• 32:53
  know,
• 32:53
  this
• 32:53
  trip.
• 32:53
  Let's.
• 32:54
  Let's
• 32:54
  see.
• 32:55
  And
• 32:55
  what
• 32:55
  happens
• 32:56
  is
• 32:56
  we
• 32:56
  do
• 32:56
  it,
• 32:57
  and
• 32:57
  we
• 32:57
  know
• 32:58
  it's
• 32:58
  happening,
• 32:58
  and
• 32:58
  we
• 32:59
  just
• 32:59
  don't
• 32:59
  take
• 32:59
  it
• 32:59
  that
• 33:00
  seriously.
• 33:01
  You
• 33:01
  know,
• 33:02
  we
• 33:02
  let
• 33:02
  off
• 33:02
  the
• 33:03
  emotions
• 33:03
  and
• 33:03
  say,
• 33:04
  okay,
• 33:05
  we
• 33:05
  did
• 33:05
  it.
• 33:06
  Thought
• 33:06
  we
• 33:06
  would.
• 33:06
  You
• 33:07
  know,
• 33:07
  like,
• 33:09
  we
• 33:09
  just
• 33:10
  kind
• 33:10
  of
• 33:10
  just,
• 33:10
  okay,
• 33:11
  that's
• 33:11
  all
• 33:11
  right.
• 33:11
  Or
• 33:11
  if
• 33:12
  I
• 33:12
  get
• 33:12
  mad
• 33:12
  or
• 33:12
  something,
• 33:13
  I.
• 33:13
  I
• 33:13
  seem
• 33:13
  to
• 33:13
  sulk
• 33:14
  and
• 33:15
  separate,
• 33:15
  you
• 33:15
  know,
• 33:15
  I
• 33:15
  don't
• 33:16
  throw
• 33:17
  things
• 33:17
  and
• 33:17
  yell.
• 33:17
  I
• 33:18
  just
• 33:18
  go
• 33:18
  away,
• 33:18
  and
• 33:19
  she'll
• 33:19
  come
• 33:19
  do
• 33:20
  a
• 33:20
  repair
• 33:21
  attempt
• 33:21
  and.
• 33:22
  Well,
• 33:22
  okay,
• 33:23
  you
• 33:23
  know,
• 33:24
  and
• 33:24
  it
• 33:24
  just
• 33:24
  seems
• 33:25
  to.
• 33:25
  It
• 33:25
  just
• 33:25
  seems
• 33:25
  to
• 33:26
  work.
• 33:27
  It's
• 33:27
  beautiful.
• 33:27
  It's.
• 33:28
  You
• 33:28
  know,
• 33:29
  so
• 33:29
  you're
• 33:29
  holding
• 33:30
  those
• 33:31
  normal
• 33:31
  human
• 33:32
  moments
• 33:32
  in
• 33:32
  this
• 33:33
  bigger
• 33:33
  container
• 33:34
  of
• 33:34
  knowing
• 33:35
  each
• 33:35
  other
• 33:35
  well,
• 33:36
  knowing
• 33:36
  you're
• 33:36
  not
• 33:37
  going
• 33:37
  to
• 33:37
  die
• 33:37
  from
• 33:37
  this,
• 33:38
  knowing
• 33:38
  it's
• 33:39
  not
• 33:39
  the
• 33:39
  end
• 33:39
  of
• 33:39
  the
• 33:39
  world.
• 33:40
  This
• 33:40
  is
• 33:41
  how
• 33:41
  steam.
• 33:42
  The
• 33:42
  hydraulic
• 33:43
  system
• 33:44
  recalibrates
• 33:45
  occasionally.
• 33:46
  Yeah,
• 33:46
  Right.
• 33:47
  You
• 33:48
  figure
• 33:48
  that
• 33:48
  out
• 33:48
  in
• 33:49
  a
• 33:49
  relationship
• 33:50
  that
• 33:50
  the
• 33:50
  hydraulic
• 33:51
  system
• 33:51
  recalibrates.
• 33:52
  It
• 33:53
  lets
• 33:53
  off
• 33:53
  steam.
• 33:54
  This
• 33:54
  person
• 33:54
  does
• 33:55
  it
• 33:55
  this
• 33:55
  way,
• 33:55
  this
• 33:55
  person
• 33:56
  does
• 33:56
  it
• 33:56
  that
• 33:56
  way.
• 33:57
  Okay,
• 33:57
  they're.
• 33:59
  And
• 33:59
  then
• 34:00
  we'll
• 34:00
  be
• 34:00
  on
• 34:00
  the
• 34:00
  other
• 34:01
  side
• 34:01
  of
• 34:01
  that.
• 34:02
  Beautiful.
• 34:03
  I
• 34:03
  think
• 34:04
  my
• 34:04
  husband
• 34:04
  does
• 34:04
  that
• 34:04
  with
• 34:05
  me,
• 34:05
  honestly.
• 34:06
  Actually,
• 34:07
  like,
• 34:07
  yeah,
• 34:07
  I've
• 34:07
  seen
• 34:07
  her.
• 34:08
  Yeah.
• 34:11
  Only
• 34:11
  us
• 34:11
  humans.
• 34:13
  Yeah.
• 34:14
  Margaret,
• 34:14
  we've
• 34:15
  covered
• 34:15
  a
• 34:15
  lot,
• 34:15
  but
• 34:16
  of
• 34:16
  course,
• 34:16
  there's
• 34:16
  a
• 34:17
  lot
• 34:17
  more.
• 34:17
  In
• 34:17
  your
• 34:17
  book,
• 34:17
  Quiet
• 34:18
  Strength,
• 34:18
  is
• 34:18
  there
• 34:19
  anything
• 34:19
  else
• 34:20
  you'd
• 34:20
  like
• 34:20
  to
• 34:20
  Add
• 34:20
  before
• 34:21
  we
• 34:21
  finish.
• 34:24
  No,
• 34:25
  we've
• 34:25
  really
• 34:26
  covered
• 34:26
  a
• 34:26
  lot
• 34:26
  more
• 34:27
  than
• 34:27
  I
• 34:27
  imagined
• 34:27
  we
• 34:28
  would,
• 34:28
  so
• 34:28
  I
• 34:29
  think
• 34:29
  there
• 34:29
  are
• 34:29
  plenty
• 34:29
  of
• 34:29
  words.
• 34:31
  That's
• 34:31
  beautiful.
• 34:32
  Were
• 34:32
  there
• 34:32
  more
• 34:32
  words
• 34:33
  in
• 34:33
  your
• 34:33
  book?
• 34:33
  The
• 34:33
  book
• 34:34
  is
• 34:34
  quiet,
• 34:34
  strength,
• 34:35
  find
• 34:36
  peace,
• 34:37
  feel
• 34:37
  alive,
• 34:37
  and
• 34:38
  live
• 34:38
  boundlessly
• 34:39
  through
• 34:39
  the
• 34:39
  power
• 34:39
  of
• 34:40
  equanimity.
• 34:40
  That
• 34:41
  feels
• 34:41
  like
• 34:42
  now.
• 34:42
  If
• 34:42
  I
• 34:42
  were
• 34:42
  just
• 34:43
  reading
• 34:43
  it
• 34:43
  and
• 34:43
  I
• 34:43
  didn't
• 34:43
  know,
• 34:44
  I'd
• 34:44
  feel
• 34:44
  like,
• 34:44
  well,
• 34:44
  maybe
• 34:45
  all
• 34:45
  that,
• 34:46
  but
• 34:46
  it's
• 34:46
  true.
• 34:47
  Well,
• 34:48
  quiet
• 34:48
  strength,
• 34:49
  equanimity,
• 34:50
  find
• 34:51
  peace,
• 34:51
  feel
• 34:52
  alive,
• 34:52
  and
• 34:52
  live
• 34:53
  boundlessly
• 34:53
  through
• 34:54
  the
• 34:54
  power
• 34:54
  of
• 34:54
  equanimity.
• 34:55
  It's
• 34:55
  a
• 34:55
  beautiful,
• 34:56
  beautiful
• 34:56
  quality
• 34:57
  of
• 34:57
  heart,
• 34:57
  mind.
• 34:58
  And
• 34:58
  thank
• 34:59
  you
• 34:59
  so
• 34:59
  much,
• 34:59
  Margaret,
• 35:00
  for
• 35:00
  bringing
• 35:00
  it
• 35:01
  to
• 35:01
  our
• 35:01
  attention
• 35:02
  and
• 35:02
  to
• 35:02
  the
• 35:03
  attention
• 35:03
  of
• 35:03
  our
• 35:03
  Western
• 35:04
  culture,
• 35:04
  which
• 35:05
  truly
• 35:06
  needs
• 35:06
  it
• 35:06
  badly.
• 35:07
  So,
• 35:07
  yes,
• 35:08
  Dean.
• 35:08
  So
• 35:09
  thank
• 35:09
  you
• 35:09
  very
• 35:09
  much.
• 35:10
  And
• 35:11
  let's
• 35:11
  see.
• 35:12
  Thank
• 35:12
  you
• 35:12
  very
• 35:12
  much
• 35:12
  for
• 35:13
  being
• 35:13
  with
• 35:13
  us.
• 35:13
  Thank
• 35:14
  you
• 35:14
  for
• 35:14
  listening.
• 35:14
  Thank
• 35:15
  you
• 35:15
  to
• 35:15
  our
• 35:15
  manager,
• 35:16
  Heidi
• 35:16
  Mitchell,
• 35:16
  and
• 35:17
  our
• 35:17
  producer,
• 35:17
  Vanessa
• 35:18
  Santos,
• 35:18
  and
• 35:19
  thank
• 35:19
  you
• 35:19
  for
• 35:19
  listening.
• 35:20
  And
• 35:20
  please,
• 35:20
  if
• 35:21
  you
• 35:21
  enjoy
• 35:21
  our
• 35:21
  guests
• 35:22
  as
• 35:22
  much
• 35:22
  as
• 35:23
  we
• 35:23
  do
• 35:23
  and
• 35:23
  as
• 35:23
  much
• 35:23
  as
• 35:24
  they
• 35:24
  truly
• 35:24
  deserve,
• 35:24
  then
• 35:25
  please
• 35:25
  tell
• 35:26
  your
• 35:26
  friends
• 35:26
  these
• 35:27
  people
• 35:27
  deserve
• 35:27
  a
• 35:28
  wide
• 35:28
  audience.
• 35:29
  Leave
• 35:29
  a
• 35:29
  review
• 35:29
  if
• 35:29
  you're
• 35:30
  so
• 35:30
  inclined.
• 35:31
  Hit,
• 35:31
  like,
• 35:31
  subscribe.
• 35:32
  That
• 35:32
  really
• 35:33
  helps
• 35:33
  also.
• 35:33
  And
• 35:34
  I
• 35:34
  just
• 35:34
  had
• 35:34
  one
• 35:34
  last
• 35:35
  thing
• 35:35
  I
• 35:35
  needed
• 35:35
  to
• 35:35
  say,
• 35:35
  Margaret.
• 35:36
  Your
• 35:36
  insight,
• 35:37
  your
• 35:37
  openness,
• 35:37
  your
• 35:38
  humility
• 35:39
  transmits
• 35:40
  what
• 35:40
  you're
• 35:41
  teaching
• 35:41
  about.
• 35:41
  I
• 35:41
  mean,
• 35:42
  it's.
• 35:42
  I
• 35:42
  deeply
• 35:43
  felt
• 35:43
  it,
• 35:43
  so
• 35:44
  I'm
• 35:44
  very
• 35:44
  grateful.
• 35:45
  Thank
• 35:45
  you.
• 35:45
  Yeah.
• 35:46
  Thank
• 35:46
  you
• 35:46
  very
• 35:46
  much.
• 35:47
  Thank
• 35:47
  you,
• 35:47
  John
• 35:47
  and
• 35:48
  Roger,
• 35:48
  so
• 35:48
  much
• 35:48
  for
• 35:49
  giving
• 35:49
  me
• 35:49
  the
• 35:49
  opportunity
• 35:50
  to
• 35:50
  talk
• 35:50
  about
• 35:51
  equanimity
• 35:51
  and
• 35:52
  to
• 35:52
  be
• 35:52
  on
• 35:52
  your
• 35:52
  wonderful
• 35:53
  show.
• 35:53
  Thank
• 35:54
  you.
• 35:55
  Thank
• 35:56
  you
• 35:56
  very
• 35:56
  much
• 35:56
  for
• 35:57
  being
• 35:57
  a
• 35:57
  part
• 35:57
  of
• 35:58
  this
• 35:58
  conversation.
• 35:59
  We
• 35:59
  hope
• 35:59
  that
• 35:59
  you
• 36:00
  were
• 36:00
  moved,
• 36:00
  as
• 36:00
  we
• 36:01
  are
• 36:01
  moved,
• 36:01
  being
• 36:01
  part
• 36:02
  of
• 36:02
  it
• 36:02
  ourselves.
• 36:03
  We'd
• 36:03
  also
• 36:03
  like
• 36:04
  to
• 36:04
  say
• 36:04
  that
• 36:04
  this
• 36:05
  is
• 36:05
  being
• 36:05
  funded
• 36:06
  by
• 36:06
  Roger
• 36:06
  and
• 36:06
  myself.
• 36:07
  It
• 36:07
  comes
• 36:07
  out
• 36:07
  of
• 36:07
  our
• 36:07
  pockets.
• 36:08
  So
• 36:08
  if
• 36:08
  you
• 36:08
  would
• 36:08
  like
• 36:09
  to
• 36:09
  help
• 36:09
  us
• 36:09
  to.
• 36:10
  Mainly
• 36:11
  to
• 36:11
  get
• 36:11
  this
• 36:11
  podcast
• 36:12
  out
• 36:12
  to
• 36:12
  more
• 36:12
  people,
• 36:13
  because
• 36:13
  the
• 36:13
  bigger
• 36:13
  audience
• 36:14
  have,
• 36:14
  which
• 36:14
  is
• 36:14
  steadily
• 36:15
  growing,
• 36:15
  but
• 36:15
  the
• 36:15
  more
• 36:16
  people
• 36:16
  we
• 36:16
  can
• 36:16
  reach
• 36:16
  and
• 36:17
  the
• 36:17
  more
• 36:17
  marketing
• 36:17
  we
• 36:17
  can
• 36:18
  do,
• 36:18
  the
• 36:18
  more
• 36:18
  positive
• 36:19
  effect
• 36:19
  we
• 36:19
  can
• 36:20
  have
• 36:20
  on
• 36:20
  the
• 36:20
  world.
• 36:20
  So
• 36:21
  we've
• 36:21
  done
• 36:21
  that
• 36:21
  a
• 36:21
  couple
• 36:22
  of
• 36:22
  ways,
• 36:22
  but
• 36:22
  we'd
• 36:22
  like
• 36:22
  you
• 36:23
  to
• 36:23
  buy
• 36:23
  us
• 36:23
  a
• 36:23
  cup
• 36:24
  of
• 36:24
  coffee.
• 36:24
  Great.
• 36:25
  Simple.
• 36:25
  And
• 36:25
  I
• 36:25
  do
• 36:25
  that
• 36:25
  with
• 36:26
  podcasts
• 36:26
  that
• 36:27
  I
• 36:27
  support,
• 36:28
  and
• 36:28
  I
• 36:28
  find
• 36:29
  it's
• 36:29
  very
• 36:29
  satisfying.
• 36:30
  So
• 36:30
  thank
• 36:30
  you
• 36:30
  for
• 36:31
  your
• 36:31
  help.
• 36:31
  Thank
• 36:31
  you
• 36:32
  for
• 36:32
  your
• 36:32
  presence,
• 36:32
  and
• 36:32
  thank
• 36:33
  you
• 36:33
  for
• 36:33
  all
• 36:33
  you
• 36:34
  are
• 36:34
  and
• 36:34
  all
• 36:34
  you
• 36:34
  do.
• 36:35
  We
• 36:35
  love
• 36:35
  you.