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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 197 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks at B.
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  Speaker 1: Straight down the Middle.
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  Speaker 2: Of Truck Guy, try to.
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  Speaker 1: Get inside the game from Every end Goal. It's Rugby
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Direct with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier powered by News
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Talks at B.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions and our
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: second emergency podcast in as many days. My name is
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Elliott Smith. I am used talk zibb's Rugby editor. I
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: don't have my usual co host, Liam Napier with me today.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: He has gone off on camping, so hopefully he's managed
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: to stay dry and he stayed out of the news
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: that has broken today, which is as I'm sure you're
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: all aware by now that All Black Head coach Scott
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: Robertson is now former All Blacks head coach Scott Robertson.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: He has parted ways with New Zealand Rugby. They came
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: to an agreement. It's been termed that they would go
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: in a different direction and Robertson would be removed. David Kirk,
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: the chair of New Zealand Rugby, fronted Media where we'll
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: hear from him in a moment some of the clips
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: when he spoke to the media and New Zealand Herald
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Rugby columnist Gregor Paul is poised to draw me on
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Rugby direct to talk through what this means for Robertson,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks for New Zealand Rugby, but first
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: and foremost, David Kirk was asked a number of questions
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: in about a twenty five minute media conference today. He
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: was asked, was there a specific area here that the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: All Blacks weren't on tracking?
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, high performance environments like the Alls
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: are very You can't disaggregate them and say this was
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: right and that was wrong. The environment is either working
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: or it isn't, and there's a whole range of different
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: components to that. But it's much more sensible to think
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: about the environment delivering performance, which is delivering trajectory for
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: where we need to go, improvements, learning, adaptability, all those
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: sorts of things that we need to be doing, and
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: then the environment needs to be set up to deliver.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: And so I think it's it's it's better to consider
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: in a broader trajectory sense than it is to try
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: and disaggregate.
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: With the environment.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: And I asked him, was this a captain's school that
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: he made alone?
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: No, not at all. This is the this is the
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: board call. All all the material that was presented, that
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: was collected was presented to the board and discussed in
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: detail at a board meeting that lasted two or three hours.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: So the board is c was cross all the material
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: and all the board directors had lots of questions and
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: lots of discussion. Obviously management, hyperformance, management, and Steve Vancaster,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: the acting CEO, was at the board meeting, and following
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: all of that discussion, the board was yunanimous in the
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: directions it gave with regard to the conversations with the
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: head coach.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I also asked him whether he had addressed the current
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: All Blacks players engage their reaction.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, we've spoken to the to the leadership group before
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: the announcement and their reaction was they just absorbed it.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: They were they were, They went there to to they
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: didn't asked me any questions and they didn't you have any
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: any any, any real strong.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Response, and I was.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: I asked him, rather, did he address the remaining All
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Blacks coaches and management alongside those All Blacks players?
• 3:54
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: No, Well, we talked to the there was separate, We
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: talked to the players, and then we talked to the
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: wide and the whole management group which is quite large
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: as you would know, and took them through the process
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: and and where where where they arrived at and the
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: mutual agreement with A Scott that he would step down.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And he was asked whether he expected the remaining coaches
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: and management to stay on.
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I have no doe that.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I see no reason why not. They committed and doing
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: a and must have been doing a great job.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I suspect there'll be further changes to the All Blacks
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: coaching staff, but that might be a matter for down
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the track once a new head coach takes on the role.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Joining us on Rugby Direct now to discuss all of
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: what we've just heard now with David Kirk, the ramifications
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks, Scott Robertson for New Zealand Rugby
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: and who might take on this job? Gregor Paul New
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: Zealand rugby columnist and writer joins us now. Of course
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: you hear him on our news talk Zerbe commentaries on
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks overseas matches and it's his first time
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I believe on Rugby directs A Gregor welcome first and foremost.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Were you surprised by this decision from New Zealand Rugby.
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: Well, thanks for having me earlier.
• 5:06
  Speaker 5: No, to be to be blunt, I think you and
• 5:11
  Speaker 5: I were were You know, we were on that tour
• 5:13
  Speaker 5: together at the end of the year and we were
• 5:15
  Speaker 5: talking as that tour developed, particularly after the All Blacks
• 5:19
  Speaker 5: lost that Test match to England and you know, was
• 5:23
  Speaker 5: quite an insipid and underwhelming performance, that we were aware
• 5:29
  Speaker 5: that there were increasing issues that we were hearing about
• 5:33
  Speaker 5: within the team and unhappiness with certain players about selection,
• 5:37
  Speaker 5: confusion about strategical approach, even uncertainty about the division of
• 5:43
  Speaker 5: labor within the coaching teams. You know who was the
• 5:47
  Speaker 5: head coach? Was it Razor, was it Scott Hansen? How
• 5:50
  Speaker 5: was all that working through? And it was clear from
• 5:54
  Speaker 5: the noise coming out of the team, the performances that
• 5:57
  Speaker 5: we were witnessing, the recidivus defending around, lack of discipline,
• 6:02
  Speaker 5: melting down after halftime, you know, lack of composure, lack
• 6:07
  Speaker 5: of ability to finish half chances when they were presented,
• 6:12
  Speaker 5: that there were clearly deep issues within the environment, within
• 6:16
  Speaker 5: the setup and yeah, no, I'm not surprised at all
• 6:21
  Speaker 5: they've made that decision.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: There was a point, is you see, on the end
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: of your tourre it just felt like something was off.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: And I'm not going to go into specifics necessarily of
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: conversations that we've had with people, but it felt like
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: the vibes for one of a better term weren't there
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: in the closing weeks of that tour.
• 6:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think that'd been building for a while,
• 6:41
  Speaker 5: though I think it manifested fairly obviously. You know, round
• 6:46
  Speaker 5: about the end of that tour, particularly after the defeat
• 6:49
  Speaker 5: to England, which to me was epitomized. There was a
• 6:53
  Speaker 5: moment that you will recall when after halftime Coddy Taylor
• 6:57
  Speaker 5: had been yellow carded, Bordon Barrett was kept on the
• 7:01
  Speaker 5: field even though he was playing on one leg, and
• 7:03
  Speaker 5: the All Black's got penalty which they didn't know what
• 7:06
  Speaker 5: to do with. They couldn't kicked for gold because they
• 7:09
  Speaker 5: didn't have a goalkicker, they didn't want to put it
• 7:11
  Speaker 5: out because they didn't have a hooker on the field,
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: and in the end they decided to tap a play
• 7:16
  Speaker 5: two phases and kick the ball up in the air.
• 7:19
  Speaker 5: And that to me was the moment where there was
• 7:22
  Speaker 5: such an obvious breakdown between the coaching box and the
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: senior players that they were not on the same page.
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: I don't think the coaching staff took responsibility for their
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: role in that, and to me that was really the
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: illustrative point where you watch an all black team as
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: a Scotsman, watching an all black team behaving as if
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: they're Scotland, then you know there's a problem.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Well, yes, to an extend, but they only got out
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: of jail the week prior, didn't they obviously against Scotland
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: dead Edinburghan and in a way, Damien mckinziy's heroics papered
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: over some of the cracks there too.
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: Yep, yeah, and you could I don't know if you
• 8:01
  Speaker 5: could make the same argument to go back another week to.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: The Island game where they were battling away.
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: Until the final quarter, because I mean, to some extent
• 8:10
  Speaker 5: that's the nature of test match Ragby, isn't it. You know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 5: you don't break a team like Ireland until late in
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: the game. But clearly I thought they escaped in Edinburgh
• 8:19
  Speaker 5: more because of Scotland's inability to hit the killer blow
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: when they had the chance and England were just too good,
• 8:27
  Speaker 5: you know, they were a better team than Scotland. They
• 8:29
  Speaker 5: got given half a chance to win the game and
• 8:31
  Speaker 5: they took it. But really the most damning evidence was
• 8:36
  Speaker 5: that whole statistical portfolio around you know, the points steff
• 8:41
  Speaker 5: sit in minutes forty to fifty nine, where it was
• 8:46
  Speaker 5: a consistent pattern where the All Blacks just consistently melted
• 8:50
  Speaker 5: down in that period, And you've got to look at
• 8:53
  Speaker 5: that and go, why did that happen, What was happening
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: at halftime, what was the replacement strategy, what earse was
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: going on? Yeah, you know, because it's a really stunning
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: set of numbers to look at.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: It simly, isn't in David Kirk referenced that the whole
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: they went into in the third quarter today as well,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: if we take a couple of steps back to twenty
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: twenty three when he was appointed, you look back at
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that process now you look back at the appointments. You
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: can say it in hindsight whatever, but do they get
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: this wrong in the first place?
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: Well, I don't think I'm saying it with hindsight. I
• 9:27
  Speaker 5: was saying at the time, you know it, it was
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: a poorly run ill conceived process, and if I'm honest
• 9:35
  Speaker 5: with you, having you know gol Stritten, the and Foster's biography,
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: Mike Gutfield here is the CEO. Insid R CEO Mike
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Robinson had a poor relationship with Ian Foster from the
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: start of Foster and Robertson's Robinson's tenure. They never got on.
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: Things got worse during the tenure, and really, I feel
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: inside are convinced themselves that they couldn't work with Foster,
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: regardless of whether he won the World Cup, didn't win
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: the World Cup, or whatever. They just wanted shot of him.
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: And they decided that Razor was going to be the
• 10:14
  Speaker 5: antidote to all the perceived problems that they had with Foster,
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: and they didn't get They ran a process to give
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: Robertson the job, and it's not clear to me whether
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: he was the right guy for that job, because I
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: don't think any other candidates got put in front of
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: the board to properly assess. And I think they've paid
• 10:37
  Speaker 5: a price for making a change without necessarily establishing if
• 10:42
  Speaker 5: Robertson was well enough qualified to.
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: Do that job and the assistance that came with him
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: into that job. Two of them went Scott Hansen reportedly
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: the subject of criticism following the end of year to
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: the whole team has come in for some real criticism
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: over the basis of the last couple of years, haven't.
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: They Well, look, here's the thing.
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: Razor applied for the job in two nineteen and he
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: didn't get it, and some of the feedback he got
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: was your wider coaching team lacks a bit of experience,
• 11:15
  Speaker 5: lacks a bit of quality, lacks a bit of something.
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: In twenty twenty two, he represented when it was possible
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: that Ian Foster was going to be removed. He represented
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: with the same group of assistants and got told the
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: same thing, You're missing something in that coaching team. You know,
• 11:31
  Speaker 5: could you bring in Joe Schmidt, for example, to strengthen it.
• 11:34
  Speaker 5: He said no, or Joe Schmidt said no, And again
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: Robertson got overlooked for the job. They retained Ian Foster.
• 11:43
  Speaker 5: Come twenty twenty three, when he's interviewed for the third time,
• 11:47
  Speaker 5: he presents the same group of people, but this time
• 11:51
  Speaker 5: with no material difference in their international exposure. They say, yes, yep,
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: that group is now good enough. Now what changed their minds?
• 12:02
  Speaker 5: What changed you know those in those intervening years, because
• 12:07
  Speaker 5: none of them were coaching really at a high level
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: of international rugby.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: The player power issue has been talked about a little bit.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Do you think that the players wanted Scott Robertson gone?
• 12:21
  Speaker 5: I think the players wanted to be part of an
• 12:24
  Speaker 5: environment that they felt was going to get the best
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: out of them and get the best out of the team.
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: I don't think there was anything personal or a desire
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: to you know, put you know, kind of gun to
• 12:41
  Speaker 5: the head pressure of ns ARE and say hey, you
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: fire this bloker. We all disappeared. I don't think that
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: ever happened. I think they just gave comprehensive, honest, authentic
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: feedback to NZR about where they thought Robertson was at,
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: whereas coaching team were at. And I think they probably
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: knew that their feedback would be powerful enough to paint
• 13:08
  Speaker 5: a picture that would leave Robertson in an untenable position.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: But I don't. I think it's unfair.
• 13:14
  Speaker 5: To characterize it as player power. I think it's unfair
• 13:17
  Speaker 5: to characterize it as a player revolt. I think guys
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: who cared deeply about the all black jersey gave an
• 13:23
  Speaker 5: honest opinion with the hope that either changes would be
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: made to help Robertson improve or changes would be made
• 13:32
  Speaker 5: to remove Robertson and do something to change the environment ends.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Speaking of change, where do you think they go to now?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: For the All Blacks coach Jamie Joseph's name has been
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: bandied around. They're going to have to make an appointment
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: relatively quickly. You would have to think to get you know,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: who have his feet under the desk. So this is
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: going to happen, happen relatively quickly from an All Blacks perspective.
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they probably need to be careful about
• 13:57
  Speaker 5: not doing it too quickly, you know, because there's not
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: a Test match until July. No, admittedly you want to
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: have guys in place to be selecting, you know, and
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: having a good look at players across the country and
• 14:11
  Speaker 5: working together. But you know, I remember two thousand and four,
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: Hanson and Wayne Smith were the two pointed assistants. Both
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: of them remained in the UK because Hanson was coaching
• 14:23
  Speaker 5: Wales and Smith was coaching Northampton, so they stayed in
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: the UK until until May June and then came home.
• 14:32
  Speaker 5: So sort of hit the ground running if you like,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: and I think you don't necessarily want your head coach
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: to be out of the country until that late in
• 14:41
  Speaker 5: the piece. But it's not the worst thing in the
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: world if you don't have a head coach and play
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: until March April, if that's what it takes to get
• 14:50
  Speaker 5: the right person or the right people. So I would
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: just say, take a breath, get it. They've done stage one,
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: which is they've announced Robertson's leaving. Kirk has said the
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: job is open, and now I think we all know
• 15:08
  Speaker 5: who the potential candidates are, don't we. Jamie Joseph's day
• 15:12
  Speaker 5: for any even Ian Foster, a return, return for Fozzy.
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: You know, it's not out of the question. Uh, you
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: know Pat Lambers in the UK. I'm trying to think
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: off the top of my head earlier other names. I mean,
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: we all know who the you know who the Kiwi
• 15:26
  Speaker 5: cultures are with the with the relevant body of experience
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: to be credible. Varonkosa here in New Zealand be another
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: one the guys that you would go Okay, let's let's
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: make sure that all of these guys are aware of
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: the the situation and give them an opportunity to apply
• 15:46
  Speaker 5: or even if one or two of them get together
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: and present themselves as a package.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That was the question I was going to say, because
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: we circle back to the point about Robertson's team. How
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: important that the team is right for this All Blacks
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and not just the head coach the name on the
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: band of the name put up on lights. But the
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: right coaching team is appointed here.
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like that that's critical.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: But there's two ways that you can go around getting
• 16:09
  Speaker 5: the right coaching team. Now, the mistakes that have been
• 16:12
  Speaker 5: made in the past were if you go back to
• 16:14
  Speaker 5: the even the two nineteen process, both Body and Foster
• 16:21
  Speaker 5: and Scott Robertson, who were the two main head coaching candidates,
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: got told they had to present with a ready made team.
• 16:30
  Speaker 5: Now what happened there was there wasn't enough talent available
• 16:36
  Speaker 5: for both of them, so they started scrapping over individuals,
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: and in the end, a guy like Jason Ryan wasn't
• 16:43
  Speaker 5: able to be appointed to the All Blacks because he'd
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: aligned himself with Scott Robertson. Now that's not a criticism
• 16:50
  Speaker 5: with Jason, that's a criticism of the process. So should
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: you just appoint a head coach and then say to
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: that head coach. You're the right head coach. You know,
• 17:00
  Speaker 5: I need to go and find the right team to
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: put around you and we'll help you do that, or
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: potentially in this because of the the sudden nature of this,
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: potentially if you know, if Jimmy Joseph says, look, hey,
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: I can bring Dave re Annie and here's a critical.
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: With South Africa.
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: If there's some way to prize them out of that
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: contract and put him into onto Jimmy's ticket, And if
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: Jimmy can say, hey, it's me Dave, Rennie and Tony Brown,
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: then that's a pretty compelling package. But I don't think
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: candidates should be required to present whether already made team.
• 17:42
  Speaker 5: I think ends that I actoually just have an open
• 17:43
  Speaker 5: mind about how they want us to go through.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: Just finally, grigor grateful for your time. You focus on
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: the you know, the business side of sporting in many ways,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: What does this say about New Zealand Rugby as an
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: organization with the backdrop I guess of silver ac and
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks being the brand that brings in you
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: know that the bacon for New Zealand Rugby, what is
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: this announcement said about I guess where they're at. They
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: don't have a sea, a CFO, a CCO, but David
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Kirk has taken on his shoulders along with the board
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: to make a pretty significant call here. So what does
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: it say about New Zealand rugby as we head into
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty six.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Well, it says, regardless of the fact that those executive
• 18:23
  Speaker 5: positions that you've listed off there remain unfilled at the moment,
• 18:28
  Speaker 5: that they have a board and certainly a chair who
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: recognizes that New Zealand's commercial ambition highly on its ability
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: to persuade the world that it is a high functioning,
• 18:44
  Speaker 5: winning rugby team that is viewed by most people to
• 18:50
  Speaker 5: be their best in the world or are highly likely
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: to be in any conversation around being the best of
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: the world.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Greg A Paul, New Zealand Herald rugby columnist and writer
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: joining us on Rugby Direct that about does this. But
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: this has been a fascinating forty eight hours in the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: history of New Zealand's national sport. That is for certain
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: watch the space for further developments. Like Liam, I am
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: hitting off on a little bit of a holiday next week.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: There might be further developments. You might have some different
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: voices jumping in and if there is more breaking news
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: over the next seven to eight days of rugby in
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: this country until next time on Rugby Direct. My thanks
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: to Mark Kelly for producing and Gregor Paul for joining me.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: That has been Rugby Direct, powered by Access Solutions, celebrated
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: twenty five years in business.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks, EDB, listen live on air
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.