Latest / Ridiculous History / First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two, Part One: James "The Bachelor" Buchanan

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First Ladies Who Weren't Wives, Part Two, Part One: James "The Bachelor" Buchanan · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so
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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for our returning
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Speaker 1: super producer, Max the Tattered mad Man Williams.
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Speaker 2: Welcome Mischief, Welcome to Well.
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Speaker 3: I mean we were chatting and stuff. I mean surprised
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Speaker 3: to everyone you know we are. We are actually real
0:50
Speaker 3: life friends. The three of us.
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Speaker 2: I was Canada, the four of us, but uh, Vancouver.
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Speaker 3: There was a Canada was Canada, right, Yeah, I was
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Speaker 3: in Portland and I was in Canada.
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Speaker 4: Based in Canada.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's basically funny thing Portland, Oregon. It's the only
1:04
Speaker 3: place in this world where you say Vancouver and they
1:06
Speaker 3: think of a different place than Vancouver.
1:08
Speaker 2: Exactly what it's like.
1:09
Speaker 3: There's like a suburb basically of it. There's a city
1:12
Speaker 3: cross the river in Washington called Vancouver. But it was great.
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Speaker 5: It was actually kind of hot. But the thing about
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Speaker 5: it is hot coover by about what they call it.
1:21
Speaker 5: They call it hot Couver. No call it that hot
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Speaker 5: Coouver day.
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Speaker 2: It starts schooling off and it's like, wow, okay.
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Speaker 3: This is different. This is Atlanta where it's like eighty
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Speaker 3: plus degree that.
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Speaker 4: Like Midnight's bewest interesting story, maybe not interesting but appropriate.
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Speaker 4: My kid and their mom are leaving for Portland today,
1:41
Speaker 4: so I might hit you up offline for some res.
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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, there's a great uh. I think it's still around.
1:47
Speaker 3: Pinball Museum is what it's called, but it's basically arcade.
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Speaker 3: It's like it's like twenty dollars play all day. But yeah,
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Speaker 3: as you mentioned, I had, I got two tattoos done,
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Speaker 3: my first two, and of course I'm already playing the third, fourth, fifth,
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Speaker 3: and sixth already.
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Speaker 2: The same brother, I'm getting inky, I've got the bug.
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Speaker 3: It's a lot of fout the bug too. But uh
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Speaker 3: no I mentioned this offline. But when I was talking
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Speaker 3: to Ben earlier today I mentioned him. He was just
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Speaker 3: said he was going to be around, you know, some
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Speaker 3: more French them things I said, watch up for. The
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Speaker 3: mimes are like you know, yeah, but h have to
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Speaker 3: break them first, and once you break them, you can
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Speaker 3: actually do real damage.
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Speaker 4: Actually, their attacks are not that hard to dodge once
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Speaker 4: you get the hang of them, because they only do
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Speaker 4: like I think too. Sorry, we're talking about Claire Scarrett,
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Speaker 4: not actual French mimes.
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Speaker 2: But they're scary too.
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Speaker 1: Expedition thirty three and uh, speaking of the opposite of mimes,
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Speaker 1: this is an audio podcast, so we'll tell you who
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Speaker 1: we are. I am Ben Bullen. You have heard a
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Speaker 1: returning super producer, mister Max Williams, and our ever present,
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Speaker 1: ever awesome co host, one and only, mister Nole Brown.
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Speaker 2: I'm nothing if not ever present. Thank you, Ben. I
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Speaker 2: appreciate that.
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Speaker 1: It's good you try to figure out how to say
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Speaker 1: ever present.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Well, English it's a funny language. It's something. This is
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Speaker 1: a weird segue. Nol. English is one of those languages
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Speaker 1: that is absolutely riddled with legacy words and syntax, even
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Speaker 1: when they don't make the most sense. And we could
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Speaker 1: argue in part two of First Ladies, Who Weren't that
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Speaker 1: the position of first lady quote unquote however described is
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Speaker 1: itself kind of like a legacy thing of monarchy. It
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Speaker 1: is an official position, but it's it's a thing that
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Speaker 1: always assumes the president of the United States will have
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Speaker 1: something like a spouse, and as our research associate Jeff
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Speaker 1: factor G showed us in our first episode here, that's
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Speaker 1: not always the case. Sometimes history has put some square
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Speaker 1: pegs into the round hole of tradition. That's how it's
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Speaker 1: dirty going on, I know for sure.
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Speaker 4: And also, I mean, I just think to find the
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Speaker 4: idea of the president's being the first anything is fascinating
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Speaker 4: because it sort of implies he's number one, he's the
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Speaker 4: best one we got, and everything associated with him is
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Speaker 4: also the first whatever that thing. Remember the movie First Kid, Yes,
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Speaker 4: like a Nickelodeon type kid's movie from the nineties.
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Speaker 2: It wasn't Nickelodeon, but it was of that ilk. That's right.
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Speaker 4: But today we are indeed doing continuation of the first
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Speaker 4: part of the First Ladies who Weren't Wives. This part
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Speaker 4: includes the bachelors, the reluctant wives who passed on their duties,
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Speaker 4: and much much more. Jeff points out at the top,
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Speaker 4: and we'd like to join him in addressing that this
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Speaker 4: episode contains some discussion of some arguable perspectives of the
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Speaker 4: first gay president as well as the first gay first Lady.
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Speaker 4: I think that one is a little more substantiated the
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Speaker 4: first Lady one.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, let's let's dive into this. That's that's an
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Speaker 1: excellent note for us to begin with. And folks, let's
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Speaker 1: also note this may be a two part series two
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Speaker 1: Part Part two. Yeah, yeah, just like when we did
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Speaker 1: idiomatic for the People or historical flex as, I think,
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Speaker 1: all right, let's start with let's get to the chicken
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Speaker 1: right away. Let's start with the one that is going
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Speaker 1: to be interesting to a lot of history buffs in
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Speaker 1: the audience, especially fellow presidential history buffs like ourselves. The
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Speaker 1: lifelong Yeah, the lifelong presidential bachelor and his first lady.
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Speaker 1: All right, when, Yeah, this one is as much about
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Speaker 1: the popularity of Harriet Lane, who will meet in a moment,
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Speaker 1: as much as it is about the fact that she
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Speaker 1: was only the first lady because she was not the
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Speaker 1: spouse of President James Buchanan, but she was the niece
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Speaker 1: of Buchanan and historians, just to get the headline out here, folks,
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Speaker 1: historians often will cite James Buchanan as quote, the nation's
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Speaker 1: most likely first gay president.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 4: That term bachelor that you wish washed around in these
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Speaker 4: days was often used as a pejorative for being gay,
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Speaker 4: not in a positive way. It was not something that
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Speaker 4: we've talked about, but if you threw around the term
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Speaker 4: lifelong bachelor, that often had a little little bit of
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Speaker 4: stink on it, depending on who was throwing it around,
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Speaker 4: and Ben remind me, I believe in our last episode
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Speaker 4: on first Ladies who Weren't Wives, we also had a
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Speaker 4: player who was a relative who got that designation after
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Speaker 4: the fact.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, talk about a player Old Andrew, two first Ladies Jackson.
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Speaker 1: There's a bit of a sad story there because, as
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Speaker 1: we recall from our first episode, Andrew Jackson had to
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Speaker 1: take his DSA on as the first lady because his
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Speaker 1: actual facts, as Lauren would say, a spouse passed away.
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Speaker 1: So there was already a niece who became a first
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Speaker 1: lady in terms of practice.
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Speaker 4: Very similar story here, although we also have potential for
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Speaker 4: what might be considered the first man, but there was
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Speaker 4: just no space culturally for that to even be part
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Speaker 4: of the.
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Speaker 1: Conversation for a first gentleman.
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Speaker 2: Indeed, I like that.
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Speaker 4: I definitely think it's important to talk about this historical anomaly,
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Speaker 4: even though it was something that we mentioned before, very
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Speaker 4: rare for this sort of passing of the torch to
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Speaker 4: a relative to become the nature of a first lady.
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Speaker 4: So this puts it into a much more interesting and
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Speaker 4: revelatory perspective than their wife died or what have you.
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Speaker 4: So let's get right into it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, folks, travel back with us. It's the
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Speaker 1: beginning of eighteen forty four. There's a guy named James Buchanan.
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Speaker 1: He's a real up and comer in the Hall's political power,
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Speaker 1: but his presidential aspirations are about to go a raw.
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Speaker 1: At this point, he has had a bit of a
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Speaker 1: brew haha with the Washington Daily Globe. It stirred his
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Speaker 1: political rivals into a big, bubbling gumbo of hater tude. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: there's Aaron Venable Brown.
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Speaker 2: Brown.
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Speaker 4: Isn't that a Isn't that an adjective like to describe
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Speaker 4: someone being like prestigious or like of of note venerable
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Speaker 4: venerable moving on one of my h one of my
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Speaker 4: many historical etymological flubs.
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Speaker 2: But I it.
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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we began this episode by talking
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Speaker 1: about how cartoonish the English language is. And perhaps because
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Speaker 1: I have some familial roots in the hinterlands of Tennessee,
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Speaker 1: Venable doesn't sound like two of a name for me.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, this guy, Aaron, he is from Tennessee. He's
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Speaker 1: especially pissed off. He's soup duped enraged, and he writes
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Speaker 1: a fake confidential letter to the future. First lady Sarah
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Speaker 1: Polk and in this quote unquote confidential letter, our but
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Speaker 1: e venable savages Buchanan and his better half, and he
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Speaker 1: says the following, mister Buchara looks gloomy and dissatisfied, and
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Speaker 1: so did his better half until a little private flattery
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Speaker 1: in a certain newspaper puff which you doubtless noticed, excited
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Speaker 1: hope that by getting a divorce she got set up
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Speaker 1: again in the world to some tolerable advantage. Read that
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Speaker 1: as gay.
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Speaker 4: I mean, right, a little bit, isn't there some like
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Speaker 4: subtweety shade being thrown here?
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Speaker 1: Exactly exactly nailed it, because the problem is that James
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Speaker 1: Buchanan up to now, even an to twenty twenty five,
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Speaker 1: he is the niians only bachelor president. The problem is
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Speaker 1: that James Buchanan at this point is our nition's only
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Speaker 1: bachelor president. So there was no spouse, there was no
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Speaker 1: female spouse to call his better half. And Brown's letter
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Speaker 1: heavily implies there was a man who fit the bill.
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Speaker 2: It's true.
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Speaker 4: Google James Buchanan and you're inevitably going to discover this
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Speaker 4: assertion that American history declared him to be the first
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Speaker 4: gay president. And it doesn't take a whole lot of
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Speaker 4: digging to discover that the popular understanding of Buchanan as
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Speaker 4: our nation's first gay president comes from his very close
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Speaker 4: personal relationship, not with God, you may have had that
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Speaker 4: as well, but with one man in particular, one.
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Speaker 6: William Rufus, William Rufus Devain King, the Honorable Venerable William
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Speaker 6: Rufus Devaine, King of Alabama. The premise raises a lot
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Speaker 6: of questions what was the real nature of their relationship?
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Speaker 6: And people love a salacious raising of questions, so I'm
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Speaker 6: sure that Froth Fear describing was indeed quite bubbling.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and I love that. I love that frauth
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Speaker 1: analogy there, because we also have to remember that the
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Speaker 1: three of us, your faithful correspondents here, are of a
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Speaker 1: generation where when we were growing up, there would be
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Speaker 1: lifelong same sex partners who described each other as roommates,
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Speaker 1: which is sad that society forced them into that kind
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Speaker 1: of semi closet space. Bu Can and King Rufus Deveyn
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Speaker 1: King shared another essential quality in addition to being on
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Speaker 1: the same page politically, they were both bachelors, as you said,
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Speaker 1: lifelong bachelors, never having married. Buchanan attended Dickinson College and
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Speaker 1: he studied law in Lancaster. His practice did really well
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Speaker 1: in eighteen nineteen. In fact, if you walked around the
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Speaker 1: town of Lancaster, you would see that he was considered
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Speaker 1: the city's most eligible bachelor. Everybody thought, this guy is
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Speaker 1: an up and comer. He's got the money, he's got
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Speaker 1: the bazazz, the panache. Who wouldn't want to marry Buchanon.
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Speaker 2: Well, that's right.
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Speaker 4: At a certain age and a certain walk of life,
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Speaker 4: eligible gets attached to bachelor and it's a positive thing.
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Speaker 4: It means you're a real pick, You're a real catch, right,
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Speaker 4: You're a real smoke show, a real dime. As the
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Speaker 4: kids say, do they say that or do they say
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Speaker 4: that in the fifties they may.
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Speaker 1: It reminds me that old Jane Austen quote from Pride
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Speaker 1: and Prejudice, which is, sorry, folks, not my favorite book,
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Speaker 1: but there's one quote that gets thrown around a lot.
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Speaker 1: Jane Austen wrote, it is a truth universally acknowledged that
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Speaker 1: a single man in possession of a good fortune must
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Speaker 1: be in want of a wife.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit gold digger at gold degree. And
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Speaker 2: there's being.
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Speaker 6: There's some a little bit of subtweety stank on that
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Speaker 6: one too, if you ask me, they were.
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Speaker 1: All about subtweety steak. And I'm going to write down
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Speaker 1: that phrase because I appreciate it.
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Speaker 6: Uh.
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Speaker 1: Buchanan does ultimately become engaged to a young woman named
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Speaker 1: Anne Colvin. She is of a similar social echelon. She's
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Speaker 1: twenty three years old. Her dad is a wealthy tycoon
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Speaker 1: who made his money in iron and I love that
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Speaker 1: this is the period of history where you can say
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Speaker 1: someone made their money in just a noun.
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Speaker 6: Oh, yeah, for sure, the railroads for example, or just railroads,
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Speaker 6: if we're just.
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Speaker 2: Going with the nown with it.
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Speaker 4: I made my money and horse, I made my money
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Speaker 4: in beach. Yeah, like that's what Ken did of the
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Speaker 4: Barbie universe. It's also a time where you could say
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Speaker 4: that someone died from hysterical convulsions.
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Speaker 2: Right right, wandering wand.
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Speaker 1: Which, unfortunately good yeah, happens with Anne Coleman, who's only
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Speaker 1: briefly in the story. The official narrative is that Buchanan
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Speaker 1: was always working and for some reason this caused him
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Speaker 1: to neglect his betrothed, which caused Anne Coleman herself to
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Speaker 1: break off the engagement. So she broke up with him,
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Speaker 1: not the opposite, and immediately died of heartbreak, and immediately,
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Speaker 1: like shortly thereafter died of to your note, what her
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Speaker 1: doctor at the time said were hysterical convulsions. And the
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Speaker 1: rumor mill of Lancaster goes absolutely nuts like it's their
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Speaker 1: own TMZ. On a local level, people are whispering and
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Speaker 1: saying that Anne Coleman committed suicidal Well, it.
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Speaker 4: Would seem like Buchanan perhaps harbored a little personal guilt
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Speaker 4: around this, as he did say he entered politics to
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Speaker 4: distract himself from his great grief.
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Speaker 2: He may well have loved this woman.
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Speaker 4: I mean, you know, and look, what's the word platonic
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Speaker 4: love is very very re and there maybe even could
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Speaker 4: have You know, we also know that in these days,
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Speaker 4: and honestly well into the future, maybe even into the present,
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Speaker 4: there would be these arrangements where the woman would very
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Speaker 4: much know that the man that she was with was
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Speaker 4: not into women, but they will continue as this facade
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Speaker 4: with an understanding between.
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Speaker 2: Them or vice versa one hundred percent.
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Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, not to get too personal,
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Speaker 4: pretty much, that was the deal with my parents it's
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Speaker 4: in the opera world. Back in New York City in
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Speaker 4: the eighties and nineties, it was not the easiest thing
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Speaker 4: to be an out gay man, and there were a
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Speaker 4: lot of these marriages.
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Speaker 1: Of convenience, right, and sometimes the street name or idiom
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Speaker 1: you may have heard, folks is the so called lavender
15:44
Speaker 1: marriage or the beard right right or beard. Sometimes these
15:47
Speaker 1: could occur because both partners needed cover and were not
15:53
Speaker 1: sexually into each other. But we're close friends. Uh bu
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Speaker 1: can'd in, as he said, throws himself to work as
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Speaker 1: a result of this great grief and while he is
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Speaker 1: in Washington when he has entered politics for the politics
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Speaker 1: he and William Rufus Devane King lived together in a
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Speaker 1: communal boarding house kind of sometimes called a mess, similar
16:19
Speaker 1: to the military term for a cafeteria. Okay, yeah, and
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Speaker 1: this was not just a them thing, to be clear.
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Speaker 1: At first, their boarding house had other Congress members in it,
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Speaker 1: and most of these were also unmarried men, and a
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Speaker 1: lot of them were kind of on the younger side
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Speaker 1: for the time, and this gave their communal home a
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Speaker 1: street name, the bachelor's Mess, like this is where the
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Speaker 1: single guys hang out. And there was not any at
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Speaker 1: this point, there was not any snarky, like subversive subtext
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Speaker 1: of all these people being gay or something. It was
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Speaker 1: just these guys are unmarried. So of course if you're
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Speaker 1: a congressman and you're not hitched, you live here.
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Speaker 2: It makes sense, I guess, yeah. And bastards do be messy.
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Speaker 2: It's true.
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Speaker 4: Over time, as other members of the group lost their
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Speaker 4: seats in Congress, the population of the mess dwindled from
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Speaker 4: four to three, and then there were two Buchanan and
17:18
Speaker 4: King Washington. Society started to, you know, take notice and
17:24
Speaker 4: look a bit of scance at this arrangement.
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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And they were so vicious in these
17:30
Speaker 1: social spheres. This is peak cattiness. Right at the galas,
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Speaker 1: at the balls and the fundraisers. People started calling him
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Speaker 1: mister Buchanan and his wife. And they would call these people,
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Speaker 1: they would call this future President and rufus King, things
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Speaker 1: like aunt fancy and aunt Nancy.
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Speaker 2: My aunt fancy. That's an expression.
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Speaker 4: Maybe years later, Julia Gardner Tyler, he was the much
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Speaker 4: younger wife of John Tyler, President, remembered at them as
18:04
Speaker 4: the Siamese twins, which I guess you could call maybe
18:07
Speaker 4: a little bit less of an insulting nickname, just.
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Speaker 6: The fact that they were close. They were buds. Chang
18:14
Speaker 6: and Aang Bunker were the famous conjoined twins who were
18:19
Speaker 6: popular at the time. We've talked about on this podcast.
18:22
Speaker 6: We have we have Affair.
18:24
Speaker 3: Just to jump in here real quick, because we brought
18:26
Speaker 3: up John Tyler's second wife. I want to just call
18:29
Speaker 3: back to the John Tyler has a living grandson, which
18:32
Speaker 3: I haven't checked recently, see if the guy's still around.
18:34
Speaker 3: But I'm trying to remember how many children he had
18:37
Speaker 3: with the second wife.
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Speaker 1: He was a jack rabbit.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, he had fifteen I think total, and I think
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Speaker 3: he had at least five, maybe seven with the second wife.
18:43
Speaker 2: He was in his fifties by this point.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not as not as virile as Mick Jagger
18:49
Speaker 1: or Robert de Niro.
18:50
Speaker 3: Today, but or John the baby maker right right, curtainly
18:55
Speaker 3: still getting something, still getting.
18:58
Speaker 1: His feather mattress Calisthenics on. Well, yeah, so this is
19:04
Speaker 1: fascinating because you know, you could say these guys were
19:10
Speaker 1: just very close, lifelong friends. There are a lot of
19:13
Speaker 1: people who have close friendships throughout their lives. They cherished
19:17
Speaker 1: their rapport and their friendship and members of their immediate families,
19:22
Speaker 1: importantly for the time seem to treat them the same,
19:26
Speaker 1: you know, like this is my brother from another mother,
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Speaker 1: or you know, Buchanan, you may as well be my son. Uh,
19:33
Speaker 1: it's right right. They had secret handshakes, I'm sure, and.
19:39
Speaker 2: I love that. I love a secret handshake. Can we do.
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Speaker 1: All?
19:44
Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 1: So in Weedland, which is the name for Buchanan's country
19:49
Speaker 1: estate still near Lancaster, a heavy stoners, if you walk
19:55
Speaker 1: into his estate at this point, you'll see not just
20:00
Speaker 1: a portrait of William Rufus King, but you'll also see
20:04
Speaker 1: a portrait of King's niece Catherine Margaret Ellis. And after
20:09
Speaker 1: you can't and dies spoiler. In eighteen sixty eight, his
20:14
Speaker 1: niece that we mentioned at the top, Harriet Lane Johnston.
20:18
Speaker 1: She corresponds with this niece Ellis about how to get
20:23
Speaker 1: how to get the correspondence of these men from the
20:27
Speaker 1: king home in Alabama.
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Speaker 4: And I started it was Wheatland, not Weedland, which is
20:33
Speaker 4: over my brain immediately correct.
20:35
Speaker 1: I thought Wheatland was I thought that was some sort
20:38
Speaker 1: of strain of cannabis.
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Speaker 4: Or it could be like there's a dispensary somewhere in
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Speaker 4: the country called Weedland. Harriet lost both of her parents
20:45
Speaker 4: by the age of eleven, and Jane's brother, who was
20:48
Speaker 4: a senator at the time, James Buchanan of Pennsylvania, became
20:51
Speaker 4: Harriet's legal guardian.
20:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're getting a lot of this from some
20:58
Speaker 1: great Smithsonian articles. Yeah, one by Thomas Balserski, The one
21:04
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy five year History of Speculating about President
21:08
Speaker 1: James Buchanan's Bachelorhood. Yeah, I love that word. Setting up
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Speaker 1: Harriet Lane's origin story. So how did she become the
21:18
Speaker 1: first Lady for all intents and practices of the Buchanan administration.
21:23
Speaker 1: It's because of this interaction between King and Buchanan. Like
21:29
Speaker 1: you were setting up here, She's got a legal guardian
21:32
Speaker 1: due to childhood tragedy. She goes to a boarding school,
21:35
Speaker 1: first in Pennsylvania, then later she moves to Virginia and DC.
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Speaker 1: She lives with her uncle at his Wheatland estate in Lancaster,
21:45
Speaker 1: and she travels abroad with Buchanan while he is serving
21:50
Speaker 1: as Minister to Great Britain. This guy, this guy's a
21:55
Speaker 1: little bit older when he moves into the White House
21:59
Speaker 1: and a sense to the presidency. He's in his sixties
22:02
Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty seven, and at this point, again he's
22:06
Speaker 1: still a lifelong bachelor. Outside of that what engagement, He
22:09
Speaker 1: is not only never married, but he has also had
22:14
Speaker 1: no known romantic interaction.
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Speaker 2: Trade with women. Yes, no, no, lady, no.
22:21
Speaker 6: Paragars, no things, flings, dalliance's perhaps no none of that.
22:29
Speaker 6: So la relationship that's there, you go, situationships even so, yeah,
22:33
Speaker 6: so Lane, is that what you said, Ben, I'm sorry, situationship.
22:36
Speaker 6: We were on the same page. So Laine, at this point,
22:39
Speaker 6: still quite a young woman, joins him in his role
22:44
Speaker 6: at the White House.
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Speaker 4: She's been his kind of constant companion at this point
22:48
Speaker 4: in eighteen fifty seven.
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Speaker 2: She brings this youthful vigor to the White House.
22:54
Speaker 4: Is a really great entertainer, which, as we know, is
22:57
Speaker 4: a role that often falls to first ladies, and she
23:00
Speaker 4: really becomes kind of a people's princess type figure, you know,
23:02
Speaker 4: like very princess Diana. Yep, she's a celebrity for intents
23:07
Speaker 4: and purposes, christening ships, signing autographs, doing charity banquets and fundraisers.
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Speaker 1: She's a fashion plate. She's doing Kardashian level celebrity.
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Speaker 6: Endorsement and send all the latest trends by the designers
23:27
Speaker 6: of notes and things like that.
23:29
Speaker 1: She would have had millions of followers if Instagram were
23:33
Speaker 1: a thing at this point. She also oversees the refurbishment
23:37
Speaker 1: of the famous Blue Room at the White House. She
23:41
Speaker 1: is the lead hostess on several important visits from Everything
23:48
Speaker 1: you could imagine, Big Deal European Folks VIPs from Japan
23:52
Speaker 1: in May of eighteen sixty. She also coordinates a visit
23:58
Speaker 1: from Albert Edward, the Prince of Wales and look before
24:05
Speaker 1: Jackie odasas Kennedy, few first ladies captured public imagination like
24:11
Speaker 1: Harriet Lane.
24:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Jackie OH loomed so large that I personally
24:16
Speaker 4: did not know about the legacy of Harriet Lane, because
24:18
Speaker 4: we really do think of Jackie O as being that quintessential,
24:22
Speaker 4: you know, first lady's first lady kind of And I
24:24
Speaker 4: think that's probably in no small part due to this
24:27
Speaker 4: speculation about the president's bachelorhood. Did not seem to stick
24:32
Speaker 4: in the mind of history in the same way that
24:35
Speaker 4: Jackie O did. But she was very much on the
24:37
Speaker 4: same playing field that Jackie O would occupy, capturing the
24:41
Speaker 4: public imagination, et cetera.
24:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, the important distinction here is that prior to Harriet Lane,
24:51
Speaker 1: and maybe let's bracket Martha Washington between Martha Washington and
24:55
Speaker 1: Harriet Lane. First ladies were very well known in the
25:00
Speaker 1: up her crust of society, like in the DC Northeast area.
25:05
Speaker 1: But if you ask someone in Oklahoma or California, they
25:09
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't know much about this person. They might not
25:12
Speaker 1: care as much. This changed with Harriet Lane because it
25:16
Speaker 1: became cool to follow her, so women across the country
25:21
Speaker 1: would copy the dresses and the gowns she was wearing,
25:25
Speaker 1: like her inauguration gown.
25:27
Speaker 2: People.
25:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, people named their kids after her.
25:30
Speaker 6: Dude.
25:31
Speaker 1: They started writing her into popular songs and.
25:37
Speaker 2: She was beloved. She was beloved.
25:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very Camelot Jackie O's stuff. And during this
25:43
Speaker 1: context of history, the United States is teetering ever closer
25:49
Speaker 1: to the brink of civil war. And this they called
25:52
Speaker 1: her the Democratic Queen because the US has always eternally
25:56
Speaker 1: struggled with the difference between meritocracy, democracy, and monarchy.
26:01
Speaker 2: Right for sure.
26:03
Speaker 4: Of course, she also was very active in philanthropic pursuits,
26:08
Speaker 4: and she even took on the cause of Native peoples
26:12
Speaker 4: of First First Nation peoples in improving conditions on these reservations,
26:17
Speaker 4: which we know were not great.
26:21
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I would say, based on the conversations I've
26:25
Speaker 1: had with another show of ours wrongful conviction, I would
26:28
Speaker 1: say those terrible conditions also continue in the modern day
26:33
Speaker 1: with indigenous American populations. But she was trying to trying
26:39
Speaker 1: to improve conditions, making a good faith effort. Her uncle
26:43
Speaker 1: leaves office in eighteen sixty one, but she's such a
26:46
Speaker 1: successful social personality that she continues her philanthropy. She helps
26:52
Speaker 1: found a children's clinic at the Johns Hopkins Hospital. So
26:56
Speaker 1: thank you, miss Lane. That's fantastic. And while we're extolling
27:02
Speaker 1: her virtues, let us also mention that she was a
27:05
Speaker 1: huge fan of the arts, and she acquired so many
27:12
Speaker 1: pieces of pretty notable work, and she had always plan
27:17
Speaker 1: not to hoard it or give it to her family
27:19
Speaker 1: when she finally passed, but she always wanted it to
27:23
Speaker 1: be for the American people and patron Yeah, and when
27:27
Speaker 1: she passes away in nineteen oh three, she gives it
27:30
Speaker 1: all to uncle Sam And the Smithsonian is so happy
27:35
Speaker 1: about this that one of their officials calls her the
27:38
Speaker 1: first Lady of the National Collection of Fine Arts.
27:41
Speaker 6: You got to start somewhere. She really kicked off that
27:43
Speaker 6: collection in a very big way.
27:45
Speaker 2: It's true.
27:45
Speaker 4: And as we mentioned, she was hugely generous to Johns Hopkins,
27:49
Speaker 4: the famous hospital in Baltimore, leaving an endowment to children's clinics,
27:55
Speaker 4: and it became an incredibly important pediatric facility when that
27:59
Speaker 4: was as much of a thing as it is today
28:02
Speaker 4: in terms of like specialty facilities designated for children's healthcare
28:06
Speaker 4: and for children dealing with very difficult conditions.
28:10
Speaker 6: M hm.
28:11
Speaker 1: And before we move on, Max, you hit us up
28:14
Speaker 1: in the chat as a fellow presidential history buff. We're
28:18
Speaker 1: interested to see what tangent you wanted to bring us
28:21
Speaker 1: with Buchanan.
28:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just, you know, it's two things tangentially related
28:25
Speaker 3: to the story. Well, because one thing is there's a
28:27
Speaker 3: lot of the more clickbait you want about the first
28:29
Speaker 3: gay presidents. People have this theory that Lincoln was in
28:32
Speaker 3: fact gay, and a lot of times what you'll read
28:36
Speaker 3: when stuff like that people like, oh, no, Buchanan was gay,
28:37
Speaker 3: and obviously there's no proof on all this. I think,
28:40
Speaker 3: you know, not to get too woke on my soapbox,
28:43
Speaker 3: where I think it's more just like the lines are
28:45
Speaker 3: more blurred than people may want to accept they are.
28:49
Speaker 3: But I think the big reason why everyone likes to
28:51
Speaker 3: talk about Buchanan in this way is because it's better
28:54
Speaker 3: than talking about Buchanan in any other way, because he
28:57
Speaker 3: is widely considered the first president of good dimension.
29:03
Speaker 1: He's one of the worst three. He's one of the
29:05
Speaker 1: worst three.
29:06
Speaker 2: How is he such an f up?
29:08
Speaker 3: She watched the country start the Civil War and did nothing?
29:13
Speaker 3: He is amongst it's Andrew Johnson, James Buchanan, and Peer
29:18
Speaker 3: and Peers are considered the three works were finding. Peers
29:21
Speaker 3: is right before him, and Johnson is two after him,
29:24
Speaker 3: so it goes Lincoln in Johnson. So it's three guys
29:26
Speaker 3: in a row who just royally phipped up the Civil
29:29
Speaker 3: War type stuff. If they would have done just even
29:31
Speaker 3: a competent job, they would have gone a lot better.
29:35
Speaker 3: And well, I mean Pierce was also fanning the flames.
29:37
Speaker 3: He was a proud segregation right.
29:39
Speaker 1: I would say if they had been not even competent
29:42
Speaker 1: but less incompetent.
29:44
Speaker 2: History, John Tyler is.
29:48
Speaker 1: A completely different direction.
29:50
Speaker 7: Loudly President, prey, excellent, first lady exactly. Yeah, you can't
29:55
Speaker 7: win them all, it says America. But also to the
29:58
Speaker 7: point about uh sexual at the time, yes, more fluid
30:02
Speaker 7: in terms of how things were encountered in day to
30:06
Speaker 7: day life on the ground. But the Abraham Lincoln rumors
30:10
Speaker 7: in apocrypha come from some of his direct correspondents, but
30:15
Speaker 7: also come from his younger days when he was bunking
30:20
Speaker 7: in the same bed with another dude. I do want
30:23
Speaker 7: to point out that at that time, when he was
30:26
Speaker 7: living in the at that time in the areas that
30:29
Speaker 7: he was living in, that was not uncommon, you know,
30:32
Speaker 7: I mean, not everybody was able to pay for two
30:34
Speaker 7: separate hotel rooms at the alla day in and folks,
30:37
Speaker 7: with this, we are actually going to make an audible
30:41
Speaker 7: which you won't hear the you won't hear this audible
30:44
Speaker 7: because it's off Mike. We have conferred and this is
30:48
Speaker 7: going to be part one of First Ladies Who Weren't
30:52
Speaker 7: Wives Part two because there's just so much on Buchanan.
30:56
Speaker 7: But we'll be back later this week with more first
31:00
Speaker 7: Ladies who were first Ladies?
31:03
Speaker 2: Yep, wives were wives.
31:07
Speaker 4: Always a pleasure working with our buddy Jeff the g
31:10
Speaker 4: Man Bartlett. Now what was it, G sauce factor, G money,
31:15
Speaker 4: G unit, I like sauce though, Factor G remember G
31:18
Speaker 4: Love and special sauce.
31:20
Speaker 2: I think that's what my brain was portmanteauing it into.
31:23
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, so big thanks to our research associate, Jeff
31:26
Speaker 1: Factor G. Bartlett, Big big thanks to our returning super producer,
31:30
Speaker 1: Max Williams.
31:32
Speaker 2: Long Mickey Rang, Welcome back, buddy, and I.
31:34
Speaker 1: Am overdue to check in with our composer Alex Williams.
31:38
Speaker 1: I haven't spoken with him in a minute, but.
31:41
Speaker 2: Max, Alex is doing well. He's doing great.
31:43
Speaker 3: He is, you know, on the road doing the things
31:46
Speaker 3: that Alex loves to do, hiking, yoga, having opinions about things.
31:51
Speaker 3: Older brother that's a year and a half eight days.
31:54
Speaker 2: Older than me. Okay, good dude, love the both of these.
31:58
Speaker 6: Got to check in with with our buddy Alex as well,
32:00
Speaker 6: who composed this bang and bop.
32:04
Speaker 1: I'm very overdue actually to talk with Alex about some
32:08
Speaker 1: screenplay stuff. So with Max, extra bonus points to you,
32:13
Speaker 1: my friend, for being diplomatic. I know it could be
32:16
Speaker 1: difficult with siblings sometimes.
32:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean I have a natural propensity
32:21
Speaker 3: to be passive aggressive, and I did it on air,
32:23
Speaker 3: and then I immediately started backtracking it because Smith has
32:27
Speaker 3: not done me any good in my thirty four years
32:29
Speaker 3: a life.
32:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of cartoonishly passive aggressive. Big thanks to the
32:33
Speaker 1: Quister aka Jonathan Strickland. Big thanks as well to aj
32:37
Speaker 1: Bahama's Jacobs, Orgey Riverside cham who else, who else?
32:44
Speaker 4: Oh, of course we've got Christopher Hasiotis and Eve's Jeff
32:47
Speaker 4: Coates here in spirit and where would we be without
32:50
Speaker 4: each other?
32:50
Speaker 2: Ben, Huge thanks to you. This is a fun one.
32:53
Speaker 2: This was a real romp.
32:54
Speaker 1: And to you as well, everybody. Everybody who's feeling generous,
32:59
Speaker 1: since we're talking about politics and people who get elected.
33:03
Speaker 1: If you feel charitable and you would like to elect,
33:07
Speaker 1: to leave us a kind review on your podcast platform
33:11
Speaker 1: of choice. We sure appreciate it, and we hope you
33:14
Speaker 1: tune in later this week.
33:16
Speaker 2: Indeed, let's see you next time, folks.
33:25
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
33:28
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.