Latest / Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes / How Roadless Races Creates Trail Events Built Around Adventure & Community Ep 157

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How Roadless Races Creates Trail Events Built Around Adventure & Community Ep 157 · Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes

• 0:37
  Coach Carlie: All right, welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast.
• 0:40
  Coach Carlie: I am your host, Coach Chris Newport.
• 0:42
  Coach Carlie: And today I have a fellow race director joining us to talk all about rollless races.
• 0:48
  Coach Carlie: So I'm excited for you guys to get to know Jim and his company.
• 0:55
  Coach Carlie: And um because I had a really, really fantastic experience at one of his races last year, and think that everybody should do them because Jim, you have supremely well-run races.
• 1:09
  Coach Carlie: And I especially appreciated the pickles at the end.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people do.
• 1:16
  Coach Carlie: Yes.
• 1:17
  Coach Carlie: I know some people do they race for the like the swag, and some people race for, you know, to try to win.
• 1:23
  Coach Carlie: And you know, clearly I race for food.
• 1:26
  Coach Carlie: So, Jim, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:29
  Coach Carlie: Excited to have you.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, Chris.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I uh appreciate that, and it's nice to be here.
• 1:34
  Coach Carlie: Very cool.
• 1:35
  Coach Carlie: All right.
• 1:35
  Coach Carlie: So, Jim, give us a little bit about your background.
• 1:38
  Coach Carlie: How did Roadless Races come to be?
• 1:41
  Coach Carlie: Because uh I know you're located in the Raleigh Durham area, but you've not always been here.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um no, you're right.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I started my race directing career, which I had no idea it was going to become a career.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, no, I I didn't really know.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just sort of I just sort of fell into it, but um, but but happily fell into it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was back in 1999, believe it or not.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a long time ago.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh 26, 27 years ago.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was actually applying for a job.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I lived up in Virginia at the time, um, in northern Virginia.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I was applying for a job at George Mason University's Outdoor Education Center.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd worked there part-time as sort of a ropes course facilitator, a team development uh guy, you know, and um they were hiring for their adventure programs manager.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I threw my hat in the ring and had an interview with um the director of the of the facility.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she asked me, so Jim, if you got this job, you know, what would you like to do um in this role as adventure programs manager?
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, I'd really like to um start a freshman wilderness program.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to um continue your your rock climbing programs and your paddling programs, and I'd like to start an adventure race.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, wow, that sounds great.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's an adventure race?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I explained it to her.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: This was sort of in the real infancy of adventure racing back in the, obviously in the in in 19 late 1990s.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the only thing that I was around at that point were sort of like the expedition races, like uh Eco Challenge.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember that with Mark Burnett.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: He eventually went to to put on Survivor and a whole bunch of other television programs.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I uh uh I explained that that what I would like to do with this adventure race is create uh an event, a team-oriented event that people would navigate, uh trekking, mountain biking, paddling, and then there would be sort of special obstacles along the way.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be a one-day event, sort of what we would call a sprint adventure race, as opposed to an expedition race.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she really liked the idea, and so she's like, Great, you're hired.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you're like, oh my god, what did I just walk into?
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that first year, um, you know, it took a lot of planning and a uh I really didn't know what I was getting myself into, but uh, I found out.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and the first year went really well.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: We had 30 teams of three that that competed, and uh everyone had a great time.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no one got significantly lost, uh, or no one got uh hurt.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So these are all big wins, right?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and everyone had a great time.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a a really great feeling for me to kind of create this, have this vision of this event and and see it come to fruition.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so it was a big, big success the first year, and there's like great, let's do it again.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the second year we did it again, and uh the second year we had 75 teams of three.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we more than doubled uh the the entries.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And again, everyone had a great time, it was awesome.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then as we were debriefing with the staff at uh Hemlock Overlook is is where I I worked.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the director was like, Jim, we really want you to focus on other things, so we want you to drop VentureQuest, which is what the name of the name of this.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Are you kidding?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Are you serious?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: No way, there's no way you want me to drop this.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's just it's been a huge success.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Yeah, we really want you to focus on the paddling and the rock climbing and all this other stuff.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh man, okay, I don't think I can do that.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: I said, let's figure out a way to make it work.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so I just came up with a plan.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, look, why don't I start my own company?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'll take VentureQuest, it'll still fulfill the goals of that program, which is basically to get sort of corporate people out to the facility to kind of check out what's going on at Hemlock Overlook.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in in addition, I will do all the paddling and all the rock climbing and still do the freshman wilderness program that I created as well.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll still do all that, and you'll only have to pay me half my salary.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so she said, All right, let's do it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when I started my first company, and that was called EX2 Adventures.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the rest is sort of history.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing races ever since.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I worked part-time basis for a couple of years uh doing you know that race, and then uh that that fourth year I started uh uh a mountain bike series called the Cranky Mucky.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I started a running series called the Backyard Burn uh series.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then after that, I created another an off-road triathlon on an X-Tara uh that I did uh started in 2004, and that still exists today.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I put on races in Northern Virginia under EX2 Adventures, which was my former company for uh close to 18 years.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in 2017, we sold it to a really, really great guy named Andy Bacon, and he took it and just made it shine even more than it did in the past.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: So he's done a really wonderful job with it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: We were just sort of looking for some uh new challenges and and new adventures and a slower pace of life, and and so uh my wife and son and I we decided to pack up and move down to Chapel Hill, and that's what we did.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and for the first um, I guess year, I just sort of decompressed and didn't do a whole lot of anything.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it wasn't long before I started dreaming up um new race courses.
• 7:59
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, okay.
• 7:59
  Coach Carlie: So it sounds like this is perhaps, shall we say, an addiction.
• 8:04
  Coach Carlie: And also like these names are freaking brilliant.
• 8:08
  Coach Carlie: Like, are this does just like come to you in a dream?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or actually, um, a lot of them uh we brainstorm.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the cranky monkey name, actually, which still exists today um under EX2 Adventures, is uh I was brainstorming with my wife.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: We were headed down to my niece's birthday party in Virginia Beach, which is about usually a three-hour drive.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Traffic was so bad we never made it.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: But we had five hours we got we got about five hours in, and we're like, we just gotta turn around.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was like wall-to-wall traffic, it was crazy.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, we're never gonna make the party, let's just turn around.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we got several hours in the car where we brainstormed and just going over a whole bunch of ideas, and then she eventually said cranky monkey, and I was like, that's it.
• 8:54
  Coach Carlie: That is I figured it was gonna be you guys were pretty cranky from being in the car.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe that was part of it, I don't know.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 9:02
  Coach Carlie: Wow.
• 9:03
  Coach Carlie: So, what how many races did you have on your roster prior to selling?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: About 20.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So 20 races per year, and did that for uh eventually, I'd say probably in 2008 or 2009, we had gotten to 20 races per year, and that that was kind of the sweet spot, really.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh any more than that was uh we'd just be pulling our hair out, and and so uh uh we stuck it at that, and and then eventually, yeah, uh handed over the reins in 2017.
• 9:35
  Coach Carlie: Wow.
• 9:35
  Coach Carlie: So I mean that's that's that's racing like practically every other week.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, during we our season was from March until um early December, late, late November.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so about three months off, which I you know is an air quotes, because it's really not off.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're planning.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I started planning for 2027 a couple of months ago.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So uh it it takes at least a year sort of life cycle to to get races up and running.
• 10:07
  Coach Carlie: Wow.
• 10:07
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, so you so you came down to Chapel Hill and then you kind of decompressed a little bit, but you got the edge again.
• 10:15
  Coach Carlie: And then did you think you were gonna start another company or or did this come out of the blue a little bit?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always knew that I wasn't race directing wasn't done for me, you know.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so when we were when we came down, I there was one event that I got hired to do sort of on a consulting basis up in Virginia.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was a road bike ride, actually, a charity road bike ride.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it went really well.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: We did that for several years.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then uh another event, a gravel grinder that I that I work with, the guy who bought my company, Andy Bacon.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I work with him and EX2 Adventures on that.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And we we do that every year.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a very large ride.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: We've got uh about 1,200 riders, um, and that's up in uh Loudoun County, Virginia.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's called the Loudoun 1725 Gravel Grinder.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Loudoun County being right outside of Washington, D.C., and it has the largest and oldest network of gravel roads in the entire country, over 300 miles.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very impressive.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the gravel is absolutely stunning.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's you know, there's so much history there.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: There's civil war, big rock walls.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: This the same footprint for the road for a lot of the roads that that were back in the in the early 1700s.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: 1725, referring to the year that that area first developed was first developed.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: So Loudoun 1725 gravel grinder.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's uh it benefits the the whole um cause the cause really is to um preserve the gravel in Loudoun County.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So so we donate uh portion of the funds to to that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so to that cause.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's great.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I get to work with my old uh you know staff that you know, so I get to see it's like a little reunion.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's awesome, it's great.
• 12:04
  Coach Carlie: Oh, that's so cool.
• 12:05
  Coach Carlie: Yeah.
• 12:06
  Coach Carlie: So 1200 riders for that.
• 12:08
  Coach Carlie: I I think that just passed, right?
• 12:10
  Coach Carlie: It's in August.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's in June, yeah.
• 12:12
  Coach Carlie: It's in June, okay.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: That was in June, yeah.
• 12:14
  Coach Carlie: Um, because I remember you were telling me about that.
• 12:16
  Coach Carlie: I was like, oh man, maybe I'll have to get a gravel bike.
• 12:18
  Coach Carlie: And they're like, no, no, no, I do it on my mountain bike.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't even own a gravel bike, I don't own a road bike.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I am a mountain biker and uh I love mountain biking, I gotta tell you.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I I really do.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just went for a ride this morning and um I live in Briar Chapel, which you've been there probably.
• 12:37
  Coach Carlie: Like literally right outside it, like it's part of your neighborhood.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, when we were looking at the lot here in Briar Chapel, we were literally standing there, and the real estate estate agent, uh real estate agent was explaining sort of this is gonna be the last home on this uh street, and and we could obviously tell that, but and you know, there's a lot going on here, a lot of events and and all that, and and then all of a sudden, four mountain bikers go riding by within I'd say 50 feet of where we are.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what's what's going on right there?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: What's what's up with that?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, Oh, yeah, by the way, um there's 15 miles of trail here, and eventually there's gonna be over 20 miles of trail.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, okay.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and our son was seven at the time, and um, that sort of coupled with the fact there was kids running everywhere, and and we were looking for that sort of environment for him.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it sort of all came into place and and we decided to to to move here.
• 13:39
  Coach Carlie: That's really cool.
• 13:41
  Coach Carlie: Um, so when when did Willis Races officially kick off?
• 13:45
  Coach Carlie: And and what was your first inspiration?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I mean, I think just living here and riding the trails, the trails are a hundred percent legit too.
• 13:58
  Coach Carlie: And you don't have a couple of races in Borrow Jackals, so like how cool is that?
• 14:03
  Coach Carlie: You literally like roll out of the you're on the course.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very cool.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I I literally drive two minutes to the staging area, and so if I forget something, I'm like, all right, I'll just run home real quick and get it.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's it's it's awesome.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, yeah.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I wanted to create something in the neighborhood, and there was uh demand for that, and and the homeowners association really wanted that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I really feel like they're they embrace uh events in general, um, but but community gatherings, and so it fits right in sort of the mission of what Briar Chapel is all about.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so I was like, hey, uh, you know, I I've got some experience putting on races, you know.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mind if I go ahead and do one?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and they're like, sure.
• 14:49
  Coach Carlie: A little bit of experience putting on races, yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so um did it, and it was a two, five, and ten mile, and didn't have any staff at the time.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: A whole bunch of my staff from EX2 Adventures came down and helped me put it on, which was really cool.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um my brother still comes down, he still comes down for every single race.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: He lives up in Virginia, and like every single race he comes down and he just does it because he loves it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I love the fact that he comes down.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, really nice of him to do that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've got a great staff now.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're just they're they're awesome, fun, uh really talented.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm feel very fortunate.
• 15:31
  Coach Carlie: Okay, very cool.
• 15:32
  Coach Carlie: I think everybody needs to know like what does it take to put these things on?
• 15:38
  Coach Carlie: So, how many races do you have on your roster?
• 15:41
  Coach Carlie: How many staff do you have?
• 15:43
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, and then what's it look like for volunteers race trace?
• 15:48
  Coach Carlie: I'm sure there's some variation of that.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we have 12 races on the roster, one of which is a virtual event uh called the Zen Squirrel Challenge.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh basically, you run as much as you can or walk, um, as much as you can over the course of the month of February.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then along the way, um I send emails and try to motivate people the best I can to kind of uh keep up the mileage and keep it going.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: We've got prizes and giveaways and cool medals and really great t-shirts and all that stuff.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, and it's in February, it's cold, no one wants to go outside.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just a way to motivate people to get out more, and um, and I it it totally works.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when the pandemic started and we had to sort of switch all of our live in-person events to virtual stuff, I was like, what is a virtual event?
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just I just didn't get it, you know, and but I get it now, I really do, because the challenge is something that we're still doing today, and yet most of the virtual stuff has sort of gone by the wayside ever since you know in-person events have come back.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I really enjoy it.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I like personally because I can participate in it, and I can't do that with my other races, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to get as much mileage as I can over the course of the month, and it it's really just an incredible way to to motivate you to get out and and do more, especially when it's cold outside and or snowing and sleet or whatever, and and um and and get the miles in.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh anyway, that's that's one of them.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've got 11 other events, two of which are mountain bike races and then nine trail runs.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and staff.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we have eight staff.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, so we have eight staff, and uh they're all part-time.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, nobody nobody makes a ton of money doing this.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: They do it because they want to do it, they they do it because they're passionate about what we're all about.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they love building community and putting on really fun, crazy adventures for people.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh uh, but they do get paid and it pays for you know a little bit of food and and their gas money and stuff like that.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: So um so so that's a good thing.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And volunteers, I say we generally have between five and you know, 25 volunteers at a particular race.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sometimes the larger events they take uh a lot more.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like the that the the gravel grinder that I was talking to you about, the one that I partnered with on with EX2 Adventures.
• 18:23
  unknown: Huge.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, uh it's it's massive.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um we have I'd say almost 100 volunteers for that one and multiple aid stations with all different types of food and catering and like it's a very involved, uh ton of fun, but um nothing quite that large here with roadless races.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but uh but yeah, volunteers, they just come and you know, I think it's just really important to treat the volunteers well, you know, and um we give them sort of discounts into future racing, uh race t-shirt, and our t-shirts are are really, really nice.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're really nice.
• 18:58
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, I didn't know nice t-shirts.
• 19:00
  Coach Carlie: I can attest to that.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, they are, they're nice.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And um, our logos are cool, and um, but really I think more than anything, it's giving them uh putting them in roles that where they're gonna be really used.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh and and I ask for what their sort of skills are.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if they've got medical experience, I'll put them at a far-off aid station, you know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if anything goes down, then we've got uh first line of defense right out there.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I know that I've got a doctor or nurse or or EMT or something that's that's out there, in addition to you know, the medical professionals we have on state on site.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh, you know, some are our big mountain bikers are runners, and so I'll have them, you know, sweep the course, you know, because we need that as well.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: So uh some are just great with customer service, so they'll be on check-in and and helping pass out water and gator aid.
• 19:51
  Coach Carlie: So yeah.
• 19:52
  Coach Carlie: So it is uh it's quite the operation.
• 19:55
  Coach Carlie: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'd say.
• 19:57
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, very cool.
• 19:58
  Coach Carlie: Uh the t-shirts and the metals and whatnot reminded me of when we talked about this when we chatted a few months ago.
• 20:05
  Coach Carlie: Your what's your Thanksgiving race?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 20:09
  Coach Carlie: Um tell us about that event and how unique it is in terms of the swag that they get.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um, I think you're talking about the leftovers.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 20:19
  Coach Carlie: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:20
  Coach Carlie: So freaking brilliant.
• 20:22
  Coach Carlie: So you gotta I'm I gotta be there.
• 20:25
  Coach Carlie: Just all of our listeners come to this race because I'm coming and it's a sweeping.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I I agree it is a really cool idea, and and I will say it is not my idea because I I've seen this done at other locations, and um, but I really like the idea.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think it it is amazing because it sort of demonstrates sort of your commitment to sustainability.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, we try, and I will never say that we run a green event.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll never say, I mean, not I don't want to say never, but uh because there's always trash that's that's that's that's accumulated.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: You've got carbon offsets that you know you you're not gonna be perfect, but we do the best we can.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: We we recycle, you know, we could compost, but we haven't found a good provider for that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then there's a lot of other things involved with that as well.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so for this leftovers event, basically what it is is a uh a 5K and a 10K.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's two days after Thanksgiving.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: We do a turkey trot too, by the way.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but this leftovers race is two days after Thanksgiving.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: We take all of our t-shirts that are left over from uh really from any of the races in the past, and we lay them out on tables.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got a table of you know, unisex small, a table of women's medium t-shirts, a table of youth large, and whatever size you are, when you're checking in, you go over to that table and you just pick whatever one you want from a past race.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And when you finish the when you when you check in, you get a bib from one of our past races.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: It could be a half marathon bib, yet you're doing the 5K, you know, it's all good.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so you'll get a bib from a former uh you know uh race.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then after the race, we have all of our medals lined up on the table, and you get to select the metal that that you like.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: It could be any of the metals.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: The one thing that we do, sort of in terms of merchandise that we do buy for this, is we we get new ribbons that say leftovers race on it.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we take the old ribbons off the other metals and we put the the leftovers ribbon on there.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of like if you're a football fan, I don't know, but it's like the Pro Bowl, you know, where like all the athletes have um their team's helmet, but they've got the the the AFC or the NFC jersey on, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the same jersey but the different helmet.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a it's kind of how I think of it.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it's really cool.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people really enjoyed the um the theme of it and the fact that we were reusing um and sort of repurposing uh all of our swag and just wasn't going it was being put to good use.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah that is so stinking clever uh and is it still trail run event it is yes yeah 5k and 10k nice and briar chapel I would assume in Briar Chapel Briar Chapel I love it cool so most of your races are local to the RDU area but I think you have a few outside of town a little a few right we do yeah we've got um so I say the furthest we go is uh Burlington so there's um Cedar Rock Park um right in Burlington there's another one in snow camp called Cane Creek and Cane Creek is actually our next race and this event so that's a little bit further away from Chapel Hill uh then we also are Harris Lake and uh Lake Crabtree which is now 286 which will be Haley's branch.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh well uh I don't know if you know about the whole Lake Crabtree thing but the Lake Crabtree trails got closed so but they they had the 286 trails so we did a running race there and in the future they're going to be redesigning those um through Torque uh the Triangle Off-Road Cyclist and and Wake County have are investing quite a bit of funds and resources to uh redevelop that area because a lot of those trails are they're like fall line trails they're not super sustainable so they had inbows my husband and I call them Billy Goat trails.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right they uh you know yeah they're a little rough a little rough a little rough so they're gonna put in a stacked loop system where you have the beginner intermediate advanced oh that's fun yeah it's gonna be great yeah it's gonna be really good so anyway we put on races there too but but getting back to your initial question uh cane creek and Cedar Rock two really fun events that we do really beautiful parks and they're big uh the same group manages both um so uh I talked to uh the the same park manager for all three of the events that we put on in those in those different parks cane creek is a new one uh and if you've never if the listeners here have never been out to Cane Creek uh even if you don't do our race that's totally cool but go to Cane Creek and hike the tower because the tower is an 80 foot observation tower and it's on the tallest peak and I say that in quotes it peak in North Carolina east of Greensboro.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know exactly what the elevation is but it's like a thousand feet but but it's still when you're on that tower and you climb the top and you look out it is pretty breathtaking actually it's pretty darn cool.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: And on a clear day you can see all the way to Winston Salem.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: But we figured out a way to incorporate the tower into the race stop okay how how did you do this?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well so at the end of the 10k and the and the half marathon you you can climb to the top of the tower and this is optional you don't have to uh there's stairs that go up to the top and hang out there ring a bell get your photo taken and then come back down and that I've tested it out it takes about three to three and a half minutes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want that's you know for me and I wasn't going super fast but you know um I was just sort of like walking slash jogging with the top and then coming back down.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you want you can take a five minute real time penalty at the base of the mountain or the base of the tower.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got an A station there with water gator aid um so if you don't do it you take a penalty and real time penalty so you're gonna see if you're with someone and they're they go up they come back down they do it in two minutes you're gonna have to sit there and wait for another three minutes to try to catch up to them if you okay yeah so it's not like that your time is added on at the end like you sit your butt down and hang out here.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: You'd like to have a head head uh finish is is important.
• 27:06
  Coach Carlie: Oh that's cool.
• 27:07
  Coach Carlie: Yeah yeah like in trath on with a penalty box basically if you don't go up there.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: But it sounds like it's worth it because you get a picture taken and you get this it totally is yeah it absolutely is I highly recommend going to the top um and then again even if you don't do our race come out and volunteer or um or go out there on a on a hike and and and and check it out.
• 27:31
  Coach Carlie: And when is that race?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: That is uh September 12th.
• 27:35
  Coach Carlie: Okay.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: About a month away about a month away.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: All right um so any other races that you want to highlight um gosh well you know I'm glad that we talked about the leftovers and cane creek because those are two of our more unique events I would say um just with the tower and with this sort of the giving away of the of the other things but we've got a lot of other events that are that are really fun.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: Our Thanksgiving event is awesome and that's just a turkey trot and we've got several courses we've got a more rugged 5k and 10k but then you can also do a a super mellow two mile and that's great for you know little kids strollers are fine in that one grandma grandpa the whole family um uh is it's it's excellent for that and every year we've had that we've sold that out and then last year we had 600 people do it so that's yeah that's yeah that was a big one it was a it's a big event it's right in Briar Chapel and so a lot of people just walk to the event it's super um convenient for that but uh that's a great opportunity just to come with your flock it's called Birds of a feather trail trot and you know run with your flock so bring your family on Thanksgiving day do a 5k or a two two mile or a 10k 10K is new by the way this year.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then you know two days later come back and do the leftovers race and like burn it up right you know like so um so that's sort of the the concept with that um and then I guess the last one of the season would be run at the rock and we picked this up from junction 311.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um Mike Edwards who is the race director for junction 311 was uh looking to sort of shift gears and just really focus all on road races and so was looking to um they they had run at the rock under their sort of portfolio of events and they were looking to find someone to take it over and so uh we threw our hat on the ring in the ring and I actually heard about it from a couple of racers I didn't even know about it and they emailed me said hey Jim you should check this out I don't know if you'd be interested or not and and so I got in touch with Mike and we talked and eventually we were able to um you know to make that and and pick that up and and so we've had it since 2022.
• 30:00
  Coach Carlie: Yeah that's really cool.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so you've got uh quite the unique selection of different races mostly in this area but a couple outside of the area and um now just talk about like things that you wish that people knew about race directing so I want to hear the your point your point of view especially since I have one race Jim yeah you have at some and I don't have any plans to have any more because I admire what you do and it's so much so tell us the things that you wish that everybody knew about race directing um well um gosh I maybe I'll just tell you a little bit about kind of what race directing is like first of all it it's it's it's awesome it really is I do need to say that because I've got complete control over my time over my schedule um what I focus on what I put my energy into and um I feel extremely fortunate to be in this position to be a full-time race director really since 2004 I've been a full-time race director and it's uh it's been a a blessing for sure I'm I'm uh I'm very thankful um it is hard the first race that we did venture quest going back to the at the beginning I remember I got 15 minutes of sleep that night um if you can call it sleep it's more just close my eyes and woke and open them back up again uh and our radios were like Walmart radios like literally I went to Walmart and bought these radios and and we're like oh we'll be fine you know and and you just don't know what you don't know you know and uh the emergency personnel wasn't nearly as dialed in as we have now um it it it really you just learn so much uh over the years of doing it and you and you eventually get systems in place to make things quicker and more efficient uh you hire the right people and uh you you build relationships it's all about building relationships really it it so much of it is with park managers with volunteers with staff um with racers with um with sponsors you know with the emergency personnel you know the emts and the police that you know occasionally we'll have police that come have to come out um to our events um uh but you know food suppliers you know the people at Costco that you see every week you know it's just you really build relationships and you and and and I enjoy that and uh it's just building community really is what it is and and I feel like it's probably the thing that I'm most proud of really when when you when I think about it um you know looking back on EX2 Adventures uh you know ex2 adventures is still going and still going very strong and and one of the things I'm most proud of is building this community of people that come out and do these you know like minded people that are doing these fun adventures and just sort of like you know improving their lives.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it sounds really corny and you know but really you're doing that one person at a time and you're your their outlook might be a little rosier now.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: They maybe have had a really bad week but you know what they've been they've got an opportunity to go train for an event and then they're doing the event on Saturday and they feel like a rock star because they got on the podium you know and and it's just you don't get that it's it's nice that we can provide that facilitate that so people have those feelings because that and just sort of the community that we're building is is really what it's all about.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know so yeah that's amazing you can tell that you are clearly very passionate about it and race directors like you are what are gonna keep racers around and obviously you know having the athletes but you're clearly a magnet for uh attracting athletes who are really wanting that type of community which I would love to hear how you can transition some people from road to trail do you feel like that's for me especially coaching so many on-road traites and me being an off-road athlete I feel like that is a that's a big leap you know they're like oh I either hate it and I know that there is a degree of skill for sure that comes both with running and with mountain biking but have you uh what what have you seen in all the races that you've done of um integrating trail perhaps into maybe a road lifestyle or switching over entirely yeah um well I think that uh we really try to make our races very um approachable for even the beginner uh trail runner we we don't have cutoff times in any of our races so um even a half marathon you can come out and do a half marathon if someone emails me and says hey I want to do the half marathon but I but I but I need to walk uh is that okay and I always say yes you know maybe we can think of a way where you can maybe start an hour early and so I've done that several times and that that's worked out well but we encourage people to come out and even if you just walk or do a combination of walk and running just to sort of get a feel for it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing you can do is volunteer because you'll get a real good understanding for sort of what makes the event tick and and sort of what the community is all about by coming and volunteering.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um but it's absolutely approachable.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think you need to pick the right event you know is is important.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: For instance the last two races that we've done at Harris Lake they're very beginner friendly uh courses they're they're relatively you know in air quotes they're relatively flat um beautiful that you can see you've got water lake views um on a lot especially the run there's a lot of lake views on that um they're not super technical so you're gonna get some roots in rocks but not a ton and again if you as a as an athlete if you're coming out and you're doing this event and and you ever come to a spot where you feel like oh this is a little too tricky for me just just walk you know just walk through that area.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: If if you come out with the attitude that you know you want to win this race and it's your first trail run, you're probably gonna be humbled pretty quickly because there are a lot of good athletes that come and do our event.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one of the really cool things you get the elite athletes to come and do our races but then you also get the first timers you know and and so it's really that runs the gamut and um everything in between.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So just give it a try is what I would say.
• 36:54
  Coach Carlie: And if it's not for you it's not for you it's fine it's all good you know yeah great advice do you have any favorite moments in all of this race directing you've done oh gosh or maybe scary moments or a little bit of both oh I've got um yeah I think I think one of my favorite moments was with our first X-Tera race that we did.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um triathlon which is your world you know um but it was such a large undertaking for us um compared to what we were used to with trail runs and mountain bike races that after it was all said and done I felt really proud that we we accomplished that it was like wow that was a ton of work it was a lot of moving pieces but it all came together everyone had a great time no one got hurt you know and um so I think I felt really proud of us for putting that on and sort of dipping our toes in the water of a new race type you know uh scary modes wow there's been a lot of those um we have I I try to tell like if I get someone who and I get this all the time people who contact me and say hey I want to put on a race can you help me I was like absolutely you know let's talk and so I'll try to shed a little bit of wisdom um uh uh their way and uh one of the things I always harp on is your emergency procedures because it really is not a matter of if something is going to happen it is a matter of when and I've seen that firsthand on many many occasions um and so it you really have to have that dialed in you have to have emergency personnel you know close by so that um you can call them you have to have good uh communications as well and I looking back on my Walmart radios it scares the heck out of me that we had those because they just were not okay uh for for for now and now we've got um you know gone through several different different radio systems that we've used in the past with repeaters and we've used ham radio groups and the whole thing but the ones we've got now are actually quite good.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're called rapid radios and um they work off cell towers and and as long as you've got a cell reception we could talk to I could literally talk to someone in California on my radio if they had one.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it reminds me of like the original um was it like the Motorola like the next kind of Motorola ones it's just like that really um but it they work really really well and uh so having your emergency procedures having your communications dialed in is really really important um and having a plan is like how if something happens which it will how are we gonna handle it you know you just you gotta stay calm you can't freak out you gotta um you know really think about the patient first and and kind of how are we gonna um take this on because we've had bad things happen at our races 100% um and luckily you know um we were able to respond in a in a way that I mean I guess that's just sort of the inherent risk not only just of racing but just of fight like you know there's inherent risk every time you get in your car.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah sometimes the risk there's nothing you can do and I I'm gonna share a story with you that um was probably the worst day of my life honestly um yeah we had a fatality in one of our races um yeah it was awful it was it was just really bad it was a massive heart attack nothing we could do about it um uh there was plenty of resources that went uh into uh helping that person uh and it would just it it just there's nothing we could do and um and I'll I'll never forget it and uh never forget it and what it reminds me though is whenever I think of like oh we don't need that you know like maybe we don't need that and if it's involves around safety it's like oh no we we need it you know yeah yeah yeah so just a reminder that uh safety works Facebook yeah pretty much yeah and like I said from my experience with your events of like everything's super well marked everything is uh you know athlete communication is stellar and you guys I want a free race entry because I I gave Jim a uh a review yeah I don't like when I give people reviews I'm not like oh he was great like I uh give very specific yeah you know examples of you know interactions with volunteers pickle juice you know like well you know the feedback is amazing and I gotta tell you that I really appreciate it when people provide a review.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the reviews are great because anyone that comes and wants to do one of our events they can read those reviews and and they get sort of an independent you know take on kind of what the experience is like and we've got nothing to do with it.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: We can't edit it we can't do anything so this is all legit you know um and we usually get 30 to probably 60 reviews uh after a race and then we give away a couple of free entries to everyone that took the time to to provide a review and you are the benefit of that was not you had no idea who I would like it was no I had no idea yeah exactly and um but the great thing about that is um is we learn a ton from those reviews uh we literally after a race um I sit down with the staff after every single event we take about a half an hour after everything's packed up and cleaned up and we do a debrief so we go over every little thing and we make we're like you know we could have improved the parking here in this particular thing we needed we needed to do this or um you know this A station needed um you know maybe an extra 200 cups or whatever it was so we didn't make need to make another you know uh trip out there to for for extra supplies or whatever that is we go over um all of it and I keep detailed notes and then next year when that race comes along um or when I'm planning the the details of that is like hey you know I've got a note in here that maybe we should consider adjusting the these the the start time for the award ceremony you know maybe it's a little too soon or a little too late and uh I do that on all the time and and people uh athletes who provide a review it's the same thing I read all those reviews we take if there's a theme especially um then I was like okay this is like a thing you know that that we need to address and um we make changes and like the little micro tweaks really is the way that you uh improve the sort of the finished experience um and you and you make it just even better than it was.
• 44:09
  Coach Carlie: Yeah so cool.
• 44:10
  Coach Carlie: Yeah uh Jim how can people find out about the races and write up and where should they go?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Go to roadlessraces.com and uh you'll see our full lineup of races and uh can learn a lot about what we're all about and of course uh if you'd like to volunteer you can do that as well and yeah come join us we'd love to have you so cool yeah all right Jim so I always like to ask folks before we head out is there any uh are there one or two things that you would want people to embrace or to remember about this conversation or just about roadless races in general maybe even like a sense of like what you want people to like when people cross your finish what do you want them to feel yeah I want people to feel like they've got a place at roadless races whether they are an elite athlete or a new new a beginner never set foot on the trails you can come and try a roadless races event and and it's it's all just one big community one big happy family like a big extended family really uh it's great because we see uh familiar faces at at most of the races and um we try to keep it really really fun at the award we haven't really touched upon this but at the award server I'd like to keep it really fun and interactive and do like silly games and like push up contests.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: We do push-up contests at pretty much every race and they're always fun to watch steal that one from you that's awesome.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: You should it's great they're really fun and um we do rock paper scissors contest and gosh that is amazing.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I was gonna do like um pick a number between one and a hundred and the closest to that number wins prizes uh and I had this idea to do a balloon toss at our last race at the Common Rush and um I bought the balloons but we could never get it together.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't really happen but that's gonna that'll happen sometimes next time.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we try to keep it really fun.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: We've got great food and we want people to stick around at the award ceremony and sort of enjoy the community aspect and just sort of bask in in sort of the afterglow of uh something pretty cool they just did you know this accomplishment and like commiserate with your fellow runners and bikers and and talk about how what a cool thing you just did.
• 46:49
  Coach Carlie: Yeah.
• 46:49
  Coach Carlie: That's awesome.
• 46:50
  Coach Carlie: Jim Harman from Roadless Races, thank you so much for coming on to find Drake podcasts.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 46:56
  Coach Carlie: And thanks for being part of the community and making racing a thing and clearly you are so passionate about it.
• 47:04
  Coach Carlie: So thank you so much for bringing that beautiful light to this area.
• 47:09
  Coach Carlie: I really appreciate it.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate that.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: All right Chris thanks.
• 47:13
  Coach Carlie: Take care guys.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay