Latest / Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast / Perfectionism Is Stealing Your Life—Especially If You Have OCD (OCD)(Episode 33)
Transcript
- Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Hi y'all, I'm Stacey, and along with my husband Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us again. Welcome to episode 33. That's a big deal. Wow, 33 episodes. That I mean, we're over a half a year now. Yeah. Which is awesome. That's really exciting for us to have put out so many episodes and so humbled by those of you who are listening and and really excited about that. as y'all know by now, this is the podcast that talks all things. OCD and ERP related. And it's just been an honor to kind of share our journey with you all and give you an example of what it can be life after intensive treatment for OCD and what changes can be made in the in the most positive way. And giving you the the spouse's perspective, of course, as as Mark does so beautifully on on each episode as well, and how my late in-life diagnosis has has affected our family and and what changes we've made. And so we want to continue that tonight by talking about something else. And I'm hoping that I can articulate it as well as can be because it's been something that's been on my mind a little bit as we navigate middle age and sending our oldest to college and And what that means for for life now and and things like that and middle age can bring challenges to any marriage, any couple and midlife crisis. All right, we both had at least one probably, so No. please. No, I have not at all. I guess I I didn't go out and buy a new car. No, you didn't. But shall we share with the viewers what you've done, what the listeners what you did. We already did that a while ago. Did we? All right. Well just so you know that that was your midlife crisis. So you know. And what have you done? Didn't I buy a car? yeah. Ha ha ha ha. There we go. You know, we've talked a lot about the different ways in which my O C D has presented over the years and this goes way back to my teens and I wasn't diagnosed until later. And one of the themes that keeps coming up for me. And one of the themes that has been a part of my life for so many years is that of the the just right OCD or the feeling that I need to have things or leave things just right. And I know I've talked before in in different episodes about how I have to leave conversations feeling just right or I have to leave text messages or emails feeling just right and the compulsions that I have to engage in if I feel as though I haven't done that. And I think that there's a particular word that has been that is most likely attached to just right O C D, at least in my world and in my eyes. And it's one that I haven't really spoken much about. very specifically here. And I think tonight is the night because of course, as I am a middle aged woman too, I'm up in the middle of the night the other night and I'm kind of having an epiphany of thoughts and it's just been a pause. Thank you. At its finest. Thank you. That's a that's a that's a little love shout out to our therapist too, who's gonna love that Mark brought up perimenopause again on our on our lovely podcast. I did get in trouble last time. So anybody wants to know. It is a part of Of our journey too, just given our age and stage in life. So it it does add to all of it and everything that we've been going through. But the word that I'm looking at and the word that I'm thinking of is perfectionism. And that's a word that we haven't used a whole lot on this podcast yet. And it's a word that is associated with OCD. And when I think about my own just right tendencies, that's exactly what it is. That if if something doesn't feel perfect enough to me, if I can't achieve this the aspect of perfection in in whatever I'm doing. I have to engage in a compulsion or I have to loop back around and do it again, whatever that might be, if I have to send out a another email or send out or come go talk to someone if I feel like the conversation didn't end the way I wanted it to. and so I just have spent a lot of my life trying to achieve perfection. I think that's a fair way to say it. Because you all know that you know, some of the other ways that my OCD presents is that I I'm a constant sh reassurance seeker, I'm a constant checker inner, if you will. I need that feedback, especially from Mark, in order to to make sure that I feel okay, that I feel centered, that I feel like my nervous system is is okay. so that's something that we've constantly dealt with as well. but this this Need for perfection. I think that's been one that has really, really brought some challenge to me personally, but then as soon as I became a wife and a mother and those tendencies ramped up rather than lessened. Yeah, they definitely did not they they moved targets. Yeah. Well that's another big part of what we've talked about. It moved targets. The the perfectionism is constantly moving targets because my OCD is constantly moving targets because my OCD is constantly lying to me. And telling me that something didn't feel right or that I need to redo or relook or compulse in some way so that I can feel like it's more perfection. I can feel like I left it as perfectly as I absolutely could have. And I think that it's hard for me to talk about this because it's it puts me in a vulnerable place. This podcast has been such a a place where I can heal, Mark can heal, we can heal together, we can show support for this community, we can bring some healing and some peace of mind to other people who are in this our same boat. but this one, this idea of perfectionism, it really has a hold of me. And it's been a really hard one for me to let go of. Especially recently. Yeah. So it puts me in a really vulnerable place to talk about it. And I and it makes me feel a little bit like I'm gonna get on a bit of a soapbox because I'm gonna plead to the masses out there who may be dealing with similar circumstances. Just right O C D perfectionism C O C D and I I I want to I wanna make sure that if there's somebody that I can help out there that doesn't make the same choices and and in my eyes, mistakes that I made. Because it's hard for me to think of it any other way, even though I was undiagnosed for so long and I didn't realize that it was my OCD keeping me prisoner to the perfectionism. if I can help one person not feel like they need to be locked into that, then I will have felt good about sharing this part of my story and this part of my journey, which is that I'm constantly seeking perfection. And I mean, again, I've I've shared that before. I've just not shared it in that particular way. And I'm so disappointed with myself and I'm so saddened by what I feel like I've lost because of my need for perfection. And so again, I'm hoping that I can really explain this tonight in a way that that that reaches someone, maybe someone's, I don't know. but there's such a different way to do things. And and it it really to get locked into the compulsions around things being perfect when what we know logically about life is that nothing and no one and nowhere is ever going to be perfect. You lose so much time, energy And I will say that perfectionism kind some can can sometimes look like control. Yes. absolutely. So if if you're out there listening and and you're the spouse of somebody that maybe deals with this type of O C D, it might look like they're trying to control situations, control people, control as much of their life as possible. With that perfectionism piece. Yeah. And and it's not that they're trying to control. It's that you're you're trying to make sure things are just right. Yes. The the the the most flawless Mm-hmm. Because if it's not, then I have to start over. And I mean, I have to start my whole life over. Like it like everything before that was not meaningful or good enough or The way I the way I think about it now, the way I see what I've done, it's it's hard for me. And so I'm getting a little emotional on this episode because I have found humor in a lot of ways. Mark and I both have. It's it's been a big part of what this podcast has represented as well in our healing is that we can find humor in it. We have a great relationship together to to find that piece of it. but this one, this one is hard. This one is harder for me tonight. I'm not afraid to say now, although I'm probably somewhat ashamed of it, is that I've lost a lot of my children's childhood. Just looping back around to achieving perfection. I often will say to myself, Well, if I can just get this feeling just right, let me just focus in on this and all of this other thing over here can wait. For example, if my house isn't clean enough, if my house isn't decorated perfectly enough for me, if my own body, if I'm feeling a little overweight or I need to lose some weight, or I haven't worn makeup or something that's imperfect on me, well, no, let me focus my attention on that and I'm gonna let all of this other stuff, and as soon as that's done and perfect, then everything else in my life will fall into place. And that's so not true. And there is such a better way. And I I I'm pleading with people not to get caught up in that particular compulsion and that comp that particular need. Because it steals so much. OCD steals enough. OCD lies enough. It it it's enough. But when you have perfectionism, OCD, it just to to have to loop back and back around again until you get it perfect. You spend your whole life doing that and you miss everything else. And if you wait until something is perfect in your life before you tackle or try to achieve something else. Everything's gonna be lost. And I think it's more noticeable to me now that my children are the ages that they are. Our children, sorry, you had a hand in it too. My apologies. Yeah, I guess so. unless there's something you want to tell me. No, not not not not on this episode in particular. No, I'm good. but I think that w I feel like I've just lost so much. And now that my kids are the ages they are, if we don't and this is where I get a little bit on a soapbox, or this starts out as a is as a s situation where I'm talking about my perfectionism OCD. But it really becomes more of a of an aspect of we just sent a kid to college. We're sending our second our second child into high school and they're both finding some struggles. Mm-hmm. And as our as their parents, we want to help them. We want to give them opportunity to to learn on their own and to to rise to the occasion and to thrive and do all those things and and we believe in that too, Mark and I do. But we want to help them. And so what I thought about recently is that I can't wait for ever for everything else or something else in my life, something that I've deemed, anything. I need to get up and and my house isn't quite clean enough. So as soon as soon as I get my house clean enough, everything else will fall into place. So I don't need to worry about anything else and everything will be perfect once my house feels like this or looks like this. I need to lose that twenty-five pounds. So I'm just gonna As soon as that happens, then everything will be perfect and it will all line up in my life. And that is how I've lived for so many years. And when I have done something or something didn't work out per perfectly, I would loop around and try to do it again. Or or you would set a a new date for it. Like I'm gonna I'm gonna start this, you know, the first is coming up. so we're gonna start on the first. Or the fifteenth is coming up, we're gonna start on the fifteenth, you know. The first, the fifth, the fifteenth, all those they feel good, right? They're good numbers. It it makes you feel like you can't start something on like the the twenty fourth. I mean that just ooh, that's uncomfortable. Ha ha. See what I did there? Start on the twenty fourth, y'all. Start on the seventeenth, start on the second, start on the thirtieth. It doesn't matter. Just start. Trying to do better, being better. I'm feeling a little loose now about what I wanna say 'cause I really want to help those of you out there who are struggling with perfectionism O C D and especially at if you're my age and you're dealing with some of these things that have come up, like sending kids to college, looking at the middle of your life and in your career, wondering where what's next, what's what's the next chapter looking like. I realized that if I'm gonna help my children, I need to help them now. 25 pounds overweight, dishes in the sink, maybe my shower's not perfect, maybe I want some new furniture in my living room, maybe there's a dozen other things I could come up with. But if I wait until something comes perfect before I help the thing that means the most to me, I'll lose my chance. Because you you you do hyperfocus on those those items, whatever they are, and you end up kind of pushing aside what can be more important or is more important. I agree. And and I've done that for a long time. Yep. And it isn't just it's Again, it's just it's not just items. It's although yes, he Mark's right. Like I f hyper focus on organizing or cleaning or my house looking a certain way. And although I value my home looking a certain way, cleaned and organized and decorated beautifully, like that's something I value because I love that. I I happen to be someone who who does value that, but I was using that as a way to achieve perfection too. And then I was losing out on so much other things, so many other things. I was getting hyper-vigilant and hyper-focused about a lot of different things, about perfectionism. Plain and simple. I could end the statement right there. Didn't matter what it was. Conversations, emails, my body, our home, our children, our marriage. Like if it didn't go perfectly, I just wanted to like wash my hands of it, erase it, pick a new day. And start everything over. Everything. Not just No, I understand. It's it was it's everything. This is this is a hard one, you guys. This is a hard one for me tonight. This is something that, you know, I've been really open and really vulnerable, y'all, about my journey with O C D and I will continue to be so because I believe in this community, I believe in helping and supporting. I just thought it when I thought about how much I have str Strived for perfection. Even though my logical brain tells me and reminds me all the time that nothing and no one is ever perfect, my OCD tells me, no, it can't be. Just do this. Just leave it like this. Just have it be this. And then it'll be perfect. And then you can move on. And everything will be okay. Like everything's gonna magically be all right. But what happens is I get something feeling, okay, it's that felt perfect. And then within a few minutes something else happens or something else is done and that didn't feel so perfect. So here we go. Now I'm going backwards again. And I have just spent years and years in a loop. And I think that's why I've I don't know if that's where my reassurance, my need for reassurance came from. I don't know the checking in with Mark, the I I just know that these are the aspects of of O C D that have kept me stuck for so long. I mean I I I do know that you when when you're starting to feel like something is a bigger goal and you don't feel like you're gonna be able to obtain that goal. Yeah. You'll start to like let's say, you know, a a new house. Do we you and I you and I we're gonna say just let's just say that. That's actually a it's a big that is actually one that I am No, I know. Yeah, struggling with. Yeah. It it's you know, we we've been in the house that we've been in for, you know, eighteen years, nineteen going on almost twenty years now. You know, and and it's the first house we bought and you know, are we have we outgrown the house? I I don't think so. Are we looking for I think we're outgrowing our neighborhood? We we want to move away from the neighborhood and into, you know, something a little more quiet. We do, yeah. You know, not not as in the city per se. Again, looking at what our next chapter is now that we're reaching a certain age. And and you know With Avery potentially going off to college here in the next three and a half years from now, you know, that that empty nester scenario. You know, so we we do talk about, you know, a house. do we build a house? 'cause your brother could design it and he's a contractor and, you know, we could go that route. do we do we take in Find a house and renovate, you know, a house that we've, you know, maybe found in the area that we want to do. Do we just find a house and hope it's everything we want it to be without any of that? Yeah. And we've gone through and we have talked about that. Ad nauseum. Those three choices. where y'all let me back up. One more choice is stay in the current house and renovate, you know. Love it or list it. Type of scenario. Okay, that's a shout out to all my HG TV fans out there. You know, yeah, I'm right there with you. Do we do we renovate our current house and and stay here, you know, for another twenty years, thirty years? No, I don't think we do. I don't think we do that one because like you said, it's the neighborhood we're growing out of because all the kids that were kids are now all grown and so the neighborhood's just got a different feel. Different feel, a different vibe. And now that we're entering our fiftieth decade, then it's We just feel like maybe it's time for us to figure out what our next chapter is. But it I can't Stacey can't land on what we should do. We talk about I can't land on what we should do and I can't stop thinking about it. Yeah. And so it pulls me out of the present moment and it pulls me into the future too much. And so I'm fighting to stay in the present because I know that's what I should be doing now. And I I want that because I'm missing too much of my own life by continually thinking about the future. But in the future, my life is perfect because everything is aligned just as I want it to be. Because my OCD tells me that it's going to be. And when you start to think about in the future, you start to think about how are we going to obtain yeah that's that that piece such as a new house. So we we have to talk about that, you know, all the time. You know, all the time. Like, well, this is what we can do in order to build a house. We got credit in our current house and da da da I know. I mean, we we go through all the scenarios. And and unfortunately that for me, I I know that's reassurance. And I shouldn't be doing that. But we also are trying to have a conversation. True confessions right here. Did y'all hear that? Yes, I I break the cyc I do not break the cycle sometimes. Did you hear that he's been giving me free reassurance? boy. So I I do know that I need to, you know, have her sit in that discomfort. But Those are conversations. Our house conversation in particular is one that we have, I would say a couple times a week. my gosh, no. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. No. Yes. I'm gonna no. I'm gonna sell myself out here and say, I don't know that there's a day that goes by in the week that we don't talk about it. Okay. That I'm not completely hyper focused on what that looks like. And yet it's in the future and I'm still fighting to stay in the present. And she works from home. Stacey works from home. So she's here in our house all the time. So yeah, that's what she's thinking about. Where I get up, I leave the house, I go to work and I come home and you know, so I'm away from the house for eight hours a day. Yes, yes, we know. But you you're s you're here. Yeah. So that's what you you know I I it does lend itself. lend itself to a little bit more of that hyperfixation on it. But I think it's that measure of I'm seeking perfection. And when I see that home in our next chapter, it feels so perfect. And so I just go, that's it. That's that's the one. Once we get to that, man, everything else is gonna line up. Our kids are gonna be nothing but perfect. Our marriage will be nothing but perfect. Our pets will be nothing but everything I will have I mean The extra weight will have just vanished as soon as we open the door to our new house. Like everything. Everything. OCD lies. It lies to you. Life is not perfect. Life is messy and very imperfect. Perfectly imperfect, if you want to look at it that way. OCD lies and it steals and it does your best. It does its best to do this to you day in and day out until you take full challenge. To rearrange your thinking. And that's what ERP does. And that's what a lot of ERP has done for me in lots of different ways that my OCD has presented itself. And I've come a long way with a lot of things, as we've talked about too. The perfectionism is one that I'm still struggling with. And I think it just has come up lately because, you know, we have a son in college. We are trying to give him some space, trying to give him some opportunity to, you know, figure out his way. Live his life. And yet there's some challenges. And if we if I wait to address any challenges with my son, even if he's 18 and in college, if I wait to do that until something else in my life is going perfectly, then I'm going to lose out on what. our son might need. I will lose out on what our daughter might need. I certainly feel like I've done that throughout the years of their childhood. And that is something that I am truly regretful for and will be for the rest of my life. I am just so pleased that I can feel more present with them now. And that's what I that was the epiphany that I had, kind of no, I we we need to get into the mess, get into the weeds, make it just deal with it now. Mm-hmm. Even if other things aren't perfect, we can still strive for a clean house. We can strive for some weight loss. We can still strive to do all those things. We can do it too, alongside of dealing with a possibly challenging situation or dealing with something that's not perfect. And now I'm as I'm looking at Mark right now, I just caught myself. And I'm gonna I'm gonna just be very honest. I was gonna seek some reassurance right there because I was gonna say, Hey, hey, babe, did I did I say that? Did I say that well enough? Did that make sense? And that is exactly what I would say constantly to him before. No. Nobody's gonna understand it. Come on, man. You could you can't even play the I'm not sure card. Like give me some Nope, nobody's gonna understand it. That's not cool. See how I'm I'm very uncomfortable right now and I'm having to sit in that. be all right. Anyway. But but if you know, with that perfectionism too, you you know, you and I talked about this yesterday. You compare yourself to other people too. Absolutely. And again, it's one of these things where we're doing the same things that most people do. Like a lot of people compare themselves to other people. That's that's a human trait. Where it gets us in more trouble than most is because of my O C D. And so when I start to compare myself to someone else, my O C D tells me, yeah, they're they're better. Yeah, they're doing it better. They've got a secret. They know what they're doing. Stace, you're just You're flailing, you're messing up, you're crazy, you don't know what you're doing. And so you need to do this or do that, and then everything will be perfect, Stace. And then once it's perfect, then your life can just be smooth sailing. I mean and and like so our Current situation, you know, you compare yourself to your brother and and his family. Yeah. You know, his two kids, they they seem like they've got it going on and all that stuff. And I and I know they probably do. I know they do. But it you know, they're not in the same age grip bracket that we are. We're dealing with the same stuff. We were feeling the same way a couple years ago when our kids were their ages. Yeah. Their kids' ages. And Everyone was seemed to be thriving and really, you know, happy with things. And yes, we had challenges with OCD, but it was when I was doing my intensives and we were starting to get some normalcy and get some ch changes in our life. And and so everything was working out. And then it just kind of started to feel more uncertain again and more challenging again. And so it's hard for me not to compare when I feel like other families are in a better space. Are in a better space. And you then you beat yourself up. 'Cause it makes me feel like I've done something wrong. Yeah. And and everything isn't perfect in our house. And one of the things you have told me recently too is about your nervous system. Yeah. You and you made a little comment about it in the earlier in this episode too, that you know, when you went through your ERP and and like your nervous system was out of whack. Yep. And then probably six months ago or so, you were feeling really good with your nervous system and you had gone through all that ERP. The kids felt like Yeah, things were clicking along with them. You know, things with you and I were clicking along and and thing the the world the stars were lining up in a good way. Yeah. And now that Miles is in college and Avery's in high school, they both have stuff going on. And, you know, you have told me that you feel like your nervous system is out of whack again. Yeah. I feel that. I and that's exactly it. With the the business and the business ownership and and dealing with employees and and so much stress in that arena really did take a number. It did a number on my nervous system. And so when intensive started and things started to feel a little more peaceful and we got into a good routine with our kids and things were just kind of happening and going, my nervous system came back to a healthy place. And then now now yeah. It feels very uncertain and uneven and uncomfortable again. And that's because our life is right now a little bit uncertain. It's not perfect. No. No. I mean, Miles is giving us a run for our money right now, being in college and you know, him living his best life and not taking our advice or You know, I think this is the other part, is like we start out as an O C D podcast, y'all, and we we believe in that mission so much. But they're the bigger conversation sometimes for us is is the version of the the Gen X teenagers that we were, the Gen X parents that we are now, versus the Gen Z teenagers that we are now raising and the challenges that we face and how that has affected our marriage and our family too. And that's I think we're not it alone there. I think there are so many families that deal with that and that have that as a part of what they're going through, especially at our age. Again, O C D just makes it even a little more challenging for us. But it's gonna get better. In and it will get better six months from now we'll be looking back at this going, Okay, that was a whoo, that was a few months. That that was a few months. That was a little difficult. But we we rode that wave and you know, it it the waters have smooth will smooth out again. Yeah. You know, but we are gonna go through some turbulence. Yeah. And and we are in the middle of that turbulence. I at least I feel like with I agree, we are. Especially with Miles. We are. Avery's still trying to figure out her footing with being in in person school. And you know, but I'll tell you what, they're all they're giving me some ERP. Both of Yep. Great. It's awesome. Love it. think I've been on this journey long enough too that I can reflect on my OCD in a different way. And I hope that others can find some support and some solace in that too. That yep, perfectionism is a big deal for me, the just right tendencies challenges for sure. But I look at it differently now. I can I can my rational brain says, yeah, no, that's not that's not a thing. Does it does O C D still win sometimes? Yeah. And I wish it didn't, but it does. But at least now I can recognize it and I can try to do better next time. And I know different ways of interrupting the cycle of compulsions that I never knew before. And so that's really the impact that treatment, especially for me, and I needed the intensive at first. And that's the impact that treatment can have. Is that no, it's not no, it's not gonna be perfect. And OCD is still gonna win. But you look at it differently and you can find your rational brain faster. And you can interrupt the cycles of the cycle of in of compulsions. And to have that person alongside with you, like Mark has been for me, just makes it all the more sweeter and all the more beneficial. Yeah. Yeah, I love you. Well and I love too. And I and you know, once again I am super proud of what you've been working on and and I know as we continue to grow old together, you know, unless there's something you want to Well, you're older. No, no, I'm good. Okay. Except that if you go first, I'm gonna have to remarry 'cause I'm we've already established I'm not taking out the trash on my own. No. but no, as we grow old together and just just so everyone knows he's older. But I do I do know that we're gonna continue to run into O C D yes, of course. Pieces. That's why unfortunately this this podcast, you know, Living Uncertain, can we could talk about our journey every week because every week there is a new O C D, there's a new target that it hits. Sometimes there's something that maybe resurfaces again. It is something that Stacey will continue to have to work on for the remainder of her Her life. And you know, unless there's a a cure that is found, which, you know, I don't know if anybody's out there searching for I don't know that that you know, but I do know you're gonna you're gonna struggle with this and and that that catchphrase, you know, I don't know, will be tattooed on my other arm or on the palm of my hand and I'll just show you the palm of my hand. I don't know. Yeah. Read it. That's great. That's great, babe. Thanks. That's so that's lovely. What a great sentiment. But that's fine. If that's what we have to do, that's what we gotta do. Take a broken record something. Because that's that's where we're at in the process too. Well, if I can just end it by saying life is messy, life is imperfect, life can get challenging and it's hard. And waiting for it to get perfect or trying to strive for perfection before you address other things is not a good idea. And you're gonna lose so much. You have to live your life. As messy and imperfect as it is. Yeah. And be okay with that. Ugh. That's the part I'm working on it. I know. That's the part that you you struggle with that you have to be okay with the messy part. We're working on it. The messy part of your life. I don't no, I don't like that part, but you know. It's what it is. But we are so, so thrilled to be sharing our story. And we're so happy to be doing this podcast and and sharing a piece of us during every episode. And we would just love to extend that to all of you out there who may want to share your own story, who may have a spouse, a child, a loved one of some kind that is struggling with OCD and and Reach out to us, please, and let us be a place where this can be safe and supportive and share your story and and heal along with us. Yeah. Thank you for living uncertain with us. Until next time, y'all. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.