Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Ennea-Christmas Part #1 The Heart Triad (Types 2, 3, 4) with Sarah Cronin, Jera Nelson Cunningham, Deanna Sudom

Transcript

Ennea-Christmas Part #1 The Heart Triad (Types 2, 3, 4) with Sarah Cronin, Jera Nelson Cunningham, Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Plans, parties, and presents.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Man, these days always go by in a blur.
0:08
SPEAKER_00: But what is Avent really all about?
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Avent is your invitation to take a step back.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: For eight years, I've gathered and invited you here to slow down and to tune into something a little bit deeper.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: This season is about waiting and reconnecting.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: For you, the multi-passionate woman who is seeking purpose.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: Avid offers a chance for you to refocus on God, on yourself, and the people who matter most to you.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: So this year, I'd love for you to pause with me.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I am creating space for intentionality and to make more room for Christ to meet you and me right where we find ourselves.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: So, welcome to the eighth annual Advent Podcast Series, where we will learn a little, laugh a lot, and focus on celebrating with our whole selves.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: While this Advent season I've been having fun queuing up conversations around orienting our hearts to more peace and wonder this holiday season, I'm excited to officially kick off our Enea Christmas celebration series.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: It's a three-part mini-series where I'm going to have conversations with all nine Enneagram types to hear more about how they celebrate the season.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: This episode is going to be a conversation with the Enneagram Heart Triad Group, the Enneagram 2, 3, and 4.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: This year I've invited my fellow wholehearted coaches to share and represent each type.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: They're going to be sharing things like what their unique personality type adds to the celebration table, their most fruitful advent rhythm or hacker system, and then a gift that most reflects their personality growth.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: It's such a great conversation.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Each one of them was really unique and special.
2:05
SPEAKER_00: And while a lot of my wholehearted coaches know each other, some are still newer to get to know each other.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: So I had a blast making sure all of my coaches got to know each other a little bit better.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: Plus, I learned a lot about them along the way.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: I know that you're going to enjoy getting to meet these friends of mine, and I know you'll want to learn more from them.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, I've linked all the details in the show notes so you can get to know them better and connect with them in their different spaces and places.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get going with this Inea Christmas series.
2:38
SPEAKER_00: I love that slowly but surely I'm getting all the wholehearted coaches to get to meet each other, to get to fall in love with each other.
2:46
SPEAKER_00: Like this is my goal, right?
2:48
SPEAKER_00: And it's of course my dream come true.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, happy Christmas, as they say, and lovely England and Deanna, enlighten me.
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Canada, you know, Thanksgiving celebrated way early, which I think is brilliant.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: But do you all say happy Christmas or is it Merry Christmas?
3:07
SPEAKER_00: Which adaptation do you generally lead towards?
3:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, sadness comes when I see that they're trying to take Merry Christmas out altogether, but it we would say Merry Christmas for sure.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: But I see buses sometimes and they change the wording.
3:23
SPEAKER_03: It's a little sad, but I say Merry Christmas.
3:26
SPEAKER_03: So Okay.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Good to know.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Good to know.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: Happy Christmas, Merry Christmas.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: We're definitely going to keep the Christ in Christmas.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: That is what we're all about.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: I love these mini India Christmas series, and we've mixed it up every year, add a different flow, but we kind of keep the theme the same.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: And that is to invite all nine types to share in the conversation of Christmas, meaningful tradition, some celebration styles, maybe gift-giving insight.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: So this year I've invited my whole heart of coaches.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: And you three have been invited to represent the heart types, the Enneagram two, three, and four.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: So as my friends get to hear from you and get to meet you here as you share and talk, what we're going to do real quick is by way of introduction, if you could share your name, your Enneagram type.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: And the first question that we're going to offer an answer to is what does your personality type add to the celebration table during the holiday gathering?
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Which, oh, I just am having so much fun thinking about gathering and feasting and celebrating.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So how about we start with the Enneagram 2 and we'll go in order?
4:46
SPEAKER_00: How does that sound?
4:49
SPEAKER_04: Great.
4:49
SPEAKER_04: Hey everybody, my name is Sarah, and I am an Enneagram type too.
4:54
SPEAKER_04: And I think there are many of my type that loves bringing fun dishes to the table, you know, custom-made appetizers, maybe.
5:04
SPEAKER_04: For me personally, food is not my wheelhouse.
5:08
SPEAKER_04: And so as I was thinking through this question, I was thinking my type and specifically my expression of that type, I love bringing intentional and thoughtful questions to the table conversation.
5:21
SPEAKER_04: So for me, I really love, you know, reflecting on the last year, what has happened in our lives, what has happened in, you know, my family members' lives, and asking questions about the kids or the activities or the functions that I know they've been involved in as a family to spark that really connecting and beautiful conversation around the table.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, leave it to you to bring the deep questions, of course.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Not a shocker.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: All right, Jara, you're up next.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm Jara and I'm a type three.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: And as I think about you know what do type threes bring to the holiday table, I would say the preparation, right?
6:04
SPEAKER_01: Like we actually bring the people to the table because I'm always the one in our family that starts the planning process.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm asking, you know, who's going where for Thanksgiving or for Christmas?
6:16
SPEAKER_01: And what do we need to get started?
6:18
SPEAKER_01: I also start my holiday shopping usually well before Thanksgiving because I really want to pick out the perfect gifts for people, right?
6:29
SPEAKER_01: I want to pick out something that they would love.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: So that is what I bring is the thinking ahead.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
6:35
SPEAKER_00: You bring some of your galvanizing skills to the table as far as you know, probably organizing and going, you do this and you do that.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: Love it.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: We need we need you at the table, that's for sure.
6:50
SPEAKER_03: Hello, my name is Deanna, and I'm your type four representative today.
6:56
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about this question, and I thought, this is always a new family game that I'll bring in a new storybook for the grandchildren now.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: So I've had to do that.
7:06
SPEAKER_03: Our oldest grandchild is nine now, so I have a rhythm with that.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: Um, one of the things that I think I offer is I organize so that my kids can celebrate with their own families or their in-laws so that without any guilt.
7:24
SPEAKER_03: Like I don't want any of that.
7:26
SPEAKER_03: And I've found the last couple of years, actually, it's left my husband and I alone at Christmas time.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: And we've actually found out we enjoy this quite a lot.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: So it hasn't been a bad thing.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: It's good.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's due to your work on holiday expectations, which we absolutely talked about last year and we've sprinkled in this year as well, because those expectations, whoo, they can either set you up for a joyous time or really hard time.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: So I just love seeing how you've lived that out and, you know, done the process of talking with your kids ahead of time and just having that where you have joy now to have that special day to you guys, which is so sweet.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: You've modeled that well as we or release our kids, if you will.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: So, in that line of thinking, Deanna, where you have very thoughtfully considered expectations, worked through it in your own life, that's absolutely maybe even falls under a system or hack or rhythm as you engage in the holidays.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: But what are some other things that you've done that has helped you year after year, or even as you look ahead to this year with the holidays?
8:40
SPEAKER_03: I like the word hack.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: We started picking names with adults to mitigate costs because that's always a rub with me that we spend way too much money, and there's way more things that we could give to and help people out at Christmas rather than just having more toys or whatever that looks like.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: So we've also augmented space on our house because our house isn't that big to pay for hotel rooms for at least one family, and usually the family that loves a little bit of their own space more will take the hotel room.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: We all know who that is.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: So that's a given.
9:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:23
SPEAKER_03: As you said, we plan by Canadian Thanksgiving, which is in October for those Americans that don't know we have Thanksgiving as well.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: So smart.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: But we usually plan by then what the dates are gonna be when we're meeting at Christmas time, and then everyone can make their plans and it won't be rushed.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of how we do it.
9:45
SPEAKER_03: My little extra would be that I prepare crafts for all the kids.
9:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't make them up, but I will buy crafts that they can do and just have for extra space or time.
9:58
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes, I mean, they're all different personalities, and some of them need their space too.
10:02
SPEAKER_03: So we have lots of coloring going on at Christmas.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that is so fun.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: We started name drawing as well and started at adding once the grandkids turn 16.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: Now that I'm the one with the oldest grandkids on one side of the family, once they're 16, they get put in there, and that's actually become a privilege to them.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: My two girls think it's really fun that they get to be part of the adult name draw.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: And it certainly helps because now we have this new wave, Lord willing, of grandkids on that side of the family.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: So we're all going, hey, how can we help our budgets?
10:37
SPEAKER_00: And the name draw is very helpful to that.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: It is, it is.
10:42
SPEAKER_00: And really then it helps us be able to focus more on the gathering and the time together itself instead of the stress of Christmas present buying and all of that.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: So um, so good.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: All right, Jara, I know you've probably got plenty of hacks and systems to offer us.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: You know, this one wasn't as easy as I thought it was gonna be to really an answer.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of tradition, and so that makes it easier when you kind of know what to do and what what to expect.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: But I think the the thing that I do, so I am the hanging up the lights person at our house.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm actually pretty much all of the Christmas preparation and decoration.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: It makes sense.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: It makes sense.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: But two boys, yeah, uh, you know.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: And so I have a very specific system to put away the Christmas lights when I take them down so they are ready to go the next November.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: I like this.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I make sure that the correct end is out of the like the spool that we wind them up on, so I can just plug them in where they need to go, and so I can test them, and then I have them each set of lights labeled where they go, on which tree, um, on which side of the staircase, and then they get boxed according to where they go on our front bushes, and then those boxes get put away up in the garage.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: But so it's really clear when we pull them out this one goes here, this one goes here, this one goes here, and then it makes it easier to get my helpers to help me because it's all set and ready to go.
12:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that is fantastic.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: My guess is you do a lot more of things like that that you think everyone does.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And no, because that is brilliant.
12:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, as the like person as well in my household, why have I not done that before?
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's because I'm a seven.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you would laugh at my system, Jara.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: They're in Walmart grocery sacks, you know.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh no.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: I think I need to come visit you right in January 1st.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: That would be amazing.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: You're totally welcome.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Use our Airbnb room.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: It's all yours.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: That is so good.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Very, that is awesome.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm very inspired, and I am sure my friends are as well.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: All right, Sarah, what stack or system or rhythm do you have to share with us?
13:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I just wanted to respond to Jara.
13:12
SPEAKER_04: I love the future thinking that that is represented there because my present-mindedness would be like, we're just cleaning it up.
13:18
SPEAKER_04: We just got to get rid of it and move on to the next thing, not like, oh, how could this help me next year this time?
13:25
SPEAKER_04: Um, but for my own personal hack that I use throughout the year in preparation for the holidays is when it comes to gifts and how to make that a as personal of an experience as possible.
13:38
SPEAKER_04: And so for me, that looks like having the note on my phone titled gifts.
13:43
SPEAKER_04: And every time I'm spending time with someone, if there's any mention of something they desire or something they like or something they might be interested in, that goes straight into a note in my phone.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: So that when the time does come, yes, Christmas list list.
13:58
SPEAKER_04: I love that, Jared.
13:58
SPEAKER_04: She's showing it to us right now on her phone.
14:02
SPEAKER_04: Um, but then it becomes so much less stressful when, you know, as a mother of young kids, I have grandparents and aunts and family members texting me.
14:13
SPEAKER_04: I would say a couple weeks before Christmas, but it's more like end of September, beginning of October.
14:18
SPEAKER_04: Um, do you have any ideas for the kids?
14:21
SPEAKER_04: And that can definitely be a stressful question for me.
14:25
SPEAKER_04: And so I like to pull up that list and make it as customized as possible for the gifts so that they're special for the recipient.
14:34
SPEAKER_04: And then my second one is to repeat gifts as much as possible, like in a traditional sense.
14:40
SPEAKER_04: So gifts that can be repeated but customized from year to year are my favorite thing in the world.
14:47
SPEAKER_04: We have done this mostly with grandparents where they know they're getting a calendar every year, but it's pictures of the grandkids over the past year.
14:56
SPEAKER_04: And so it still takes work for me to gather all my, you know, brothers and cousins pictures from the year and put it together in a calendar, but there's no more questioning of what am I gonna get them, right?
15:07
SPEAKER_04: And my father-in-law likes a phone case with pictures of our kids on it as well.
15:10
SPEAKER_04: So any gift that can just become a tradition, and we know that we're getting it, but it still can have a special and personal component to it takes away a lot of the stress as well.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is so good, Sarah.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: I've not thought about that before.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: What a fun way to go forward.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna definitely be considering some of my people like who would appreciate the consistency too.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Like we kind of hit a certain age or a certain stage that we appreciate the consistency more or the predictability of gifts.
15:43
SPEAKER_04: So I like it.
15:44
SPEAKER_04: Right, because they would also say, I don't need anything else, right?
15:47
SPEAKER_04: I don't need anything new.
15:48
SPEAKER_04: And I kind of agree.
15:50
SPEAKER_04: So yeah, you know, here's here's a way to make it special year to year.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that's really good.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's so relational, right?
15:56
SPEAKER_01: Your gifts are very relationship-oriented, which I love.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: I think probably for all of us, right?
16:03
SPEAKER_01: In the heart triad.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: That's a really important thing for us, but also something that you know, grandparents totally eat up.
16:14
SPEAKER_04: Yes, exactly.
16:15
SPEAKER_04: We actually explored that even with my son because last year we got him a big banner that was a picture of his Pro Bowl football team, and he has it up on his wall in his room.
16:25
SPEAKER_04: And as we approach this year again, we were like, he would want that same thing again with this year's team and this year's coaches.
16:31
SPEAKER_04: And so fun.
16:33
SPEAKER_04: He's getting into an age where we don't know what to get him.
16:35
SPEAKER_04: He's beyond toys, we don't want more stuff, but that for him is really special as well.
16:40
SPEAKER_04: But it's not a new idea that we had to come up with.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: Love this hack.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: This is the way to go.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm so inspired.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, thinking through.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: I did try this with a family member, and it was kind of a new way of doing something consistent throughout the year.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And I really liked it because it was like a monthly thing.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: And it was a sweet way to make the relational connect and kind of say I love you throughout the year.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm definitely inspired to like, hey, maybe we should just keep that a thing.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: And it makes it easy.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: But loving, uh, which is important, right?
17:16
SPEAKER_00: We're not just looking for, hey, just send me the link to your Amazon item.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's fine.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And I understand some people have to do that.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: But I look, we have a little heart in there in the process too.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: But make it easy.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's awesome.
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I I think Jera should start off this question.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And that is what is the most Enneagram three thing that you've done this year?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it could be funny, it can be something that was challenging, uh, silly, serious.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: You you pick.
17:47
unknown: All right.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: So the first thing that popped into my mind when you asked that question was actually pitching myself to Tyler Zach's Enneagram and Mental Health Summit.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: It's a very three thing, but that's not necessarily I I tend to be less out there and kind of advertising myself.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And so it felt very three, but it's a little bit new for me.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: So that's good.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: That would yeah, that would be it.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: And I felt comfortable doing it because the topics were all things that are in my wheelhouse, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Completely aligned.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: It's it's what I do.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: So it felt very natural in that way.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but pitching myself is definitely I love that.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: That's so great.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: There's some growth in there and yet aligned and fruitful.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: It's so great when you've done the thing and it's borne good fruit.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: So way to go.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: How about you, Deanna?
18:49
SPEAKER_03: Well, like an Anygram 4, I thought of what I haven't done this year.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: But it was a good one because I thought I have not used AI, I cannot track with that.
19:05
SPEAKER_03: I have trouble reconciling it with my brain and authenticity, and yeah, just how I know nothing's new under the sun, but it feels like a betrayal to words to me.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: And so I thought that's one thing that I haven't done.
19:23
SPEAKER_03: But I had to actually ask my husband, I'm like, what have I done that's for?
19:26
SPEAKER_03: Because you don't, you kind of just don't think of it like that.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh, that was really.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, sometimes I do.
19:32
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, whoa, that was really four.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: That's great.
19:37
SPEAKER_03: I did write a poem for my husband's family when my mother-in-law passed away.
19:45
SPEAKER_03: So I that was the first thing that he thought of when it was the four-ish.
19:50
SPEAKER_03: The other thing I did was we were just on a retreat, Sarah and Amy and Janae and I, and Sarah caught me doing this, so she knows what I was doing.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: But I took a picture, I've gathered a bunch of leaves that were all different colors and shapes and sizes, and I was sorting them out.
20:08
SPEAKER_03: It's raining and it was sorting out, but I took a picture of them.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: You would not believe how many pictures are nature in my reels.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: So that's what I did.
20:19
SPEAKER_04: But when I noticed that, I looked out the window and I saw you laying out all the leaves.
20:24
SPEAKER_04: But it was such a beautiful thing to me because you paused to see the beauty that I'm just like, oh, it's wet and it's raining and it's icky, and you're capturing the beauty even of the leaves.
20:35
SPEAKER_04: So yes, I caught you mid-act, but it was a sweet thing.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I mean, I know you framed the not using AI as something you didn't do, but actually it was a intentional, I'm not going to use this for my words missing.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's great.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: We behind the scenes have so much conversation around AI with our coaches and business and what it looks like to use.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: We will not have that today, but it it is an interesting conversation.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: And I love inviting my Enneagram force into that thought process of making sure we are staying true to our words and our God-given gifts.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: It's very important.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So oh, it was such a good retreat, too.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: So, Sarah, what is your thing that you have done this year?
21:25
SPEAKER_04: Well, funny mine kind of piggybacks off of that, but as a type two, I love connecting people.
21:32
SPEAKER_04: And this year has held a lot of spaces in which I've connected new people that maybe I knew here and I knew there, but connecting them together for the purpose of everyone getting to deepen their connections with one another.
21:47
SPEAKER_04: And, you know, that looked like starting a group of elementary moms here locally for me so that we can just get together monthly and talk about motherhood and our struggles and successes.
22:00
SPEAKER_04: As a family, and there have been other spaces just where I've been able to connect people like retreats or like other gatherings, and that just brings such joy to my heart that I hear people say, Well, of course you would invite us to that.
22:12
SPEAKER_04: Of course you would do that.
22:13
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, Well, yeah.
22:15
SPEAKER_04: So there have been some really sweet, you know, dinners with new friends and that type of thing that has really brought joy to my year.
22:22
SPEAKER_04: But on the flip end, the original thing I answered to this is I've also said yes to way too many things over the year.
22:31
SPEAKER_04: And that is a standard thing for my type as well.
22:35
SPEAKER_04: And over time, and as that grows, that can lead to resentment and burnout and not finding joy in the things that I used to.
22:44
SPEAKER_04: And so Amy has heard a lot of that processing lately, but it's a continual thing as twos.
22:50
SPEAKER_04: We love connecting people and saying yes, but that can also grow to too much really quickly.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, that is for certain.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: And not only have you and I had a lot of conversations, but I know a lot of different people in this community, we're having that too, because it's a constant ache that we have with opportunity and wonderful, beautiful privilege comes the responsibility of choosing.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's hard, not only in this time of year, but in general.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: So I would like to just affirm that you're doing a great job, Sarah, of sorting that out and taking it before the Lord.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I just think that this is the nature.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: This is the rest of our life.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: It's going to ebb and flow where we get to go, oh, wait a minute.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Time to reevaluate.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So we maybe nailed it last year, and then this year we get a lot off track.
23:42
SPEAKER_04: Right.
23:42
SPEAKER_04: And I think that's so huge because I can feel a sense of shame that, oh, I'm here again.
23:47
SPEAKER_04: And it's not necessarily because of the bad decisions I've made, but it's that it's the natural flow of, well, my kids are in a different season.
23:54
SPEAKER_04: They're involved in different things.
23:56
SPEAKER_04: We as a family are in a different season.
23:58
SPEAKER_04: So that evaluation comes back up again and again and again.
24:02
SPEAKER_04: And that's not, you know, a thing to be feeling shame about, but instead, okay, here's another invitation to reassess.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: And that's the gift of the God-given seasons for us to every 90 days or so evaluate what's working, what's not, what do we like, what do we want to explore to do differently in the next season.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And just because it's not a part of the next season doesn't mean it was a bad thing.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: It just was a not now thing.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so of course we could have a whole episode about that.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: So sorry for bringing it deep again.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: No, I'm here for it.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: And our friends are here for it too.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: So perfect.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: So, Deanna, I'd love to hear if there is a gift this year.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: Because I've thought about something that you've shared in the years past about something on your gift list that reflects growth for you.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: I want to know what's on the list this year.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Anything that represents that.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: Actually, the only thing that really came to my mind was a very detailed planner.
25:12
SPEAKER_03: One that yes, that utilizes planning my white space, that has a checkoff list when things are accomplished, because I think then I would be moving towards my one in growth and I would be out of my doing repression.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
25:28
SPEAKER_03: Which is a big thing.
25:30
SPEAKER_03: So I might have to actually utilize AI eventually to help me move in that direction of getting out of my when I just get to a place and I get stuck.
25:42
SPEAKER_03: So I think that I'm very good at calendaring.
25:47
SPEAKER_03: If that's okay, there I just I just phrased a new term, I think.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: But I write out every week, I'll write out my schedule, but I don't utilize my white space well.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: And so I think I don't even know.
26:00
SPEAKER_03: I should just create one maybe that has a white space utilizer so that I can put those spaces in.
26:08
SPEAKER_03: I just forget when I'm writing, it seems like I have so much on my calendar.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: I've had people come to my house and say, you have so much on my on your calendar.
26:17
SPEAKER_03: And that's just the appointments and the people and the meetings.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: And so it's not creating, it's not sitting with the Lord even.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: I think I need to, you know, put that in my white space.
26:29
SPEAKER_03: So yes, I think that's it, it has to be really pretty.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: Maybe it has leaves on it.
26:35
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I yeah, there you go.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe personalize, customize.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I, you know, this is where we should reach out to any a planner and just say, what do you have for Vineagram 4?
26:48
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, just a quick clarification.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: I just because I want to take it there for a second.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: Planning your white space, do you mean knowing what to do with the white space or sticking to the white space?
27:00
SPEAKER_03: I think I know what I need to do in it.
27:03
SPEAKER_03: It's just actually putting it on there.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: Because my husband often comments, he says, if it's in the calendar, you will do it.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: And so he knows that that's usually how I operate is if it's written down, it'll get done.
27:17
SPEAKER_03: I love crossing things off.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's those promises to yourself that you aren't necessarily putting down.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: It's the promises to everyone else.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that would be apt description.
27:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, there we go.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: We'll just leave that there.
27:38
SPEAKER_04: This is a pre this is a preview of what coaching with Amy is like.
27:44
SPEAKER_04: She drops these beautiful nuggets and you feel more quick.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Choose to do with what you want to do with.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: Uh all right, Jara, how about you?
27:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious to hear what this would look like.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this question wasn't easy.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: I think one thing, and this isn't really a thing, but having more emotional discussions in our family.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: So our family is not great at talking about feelings.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I do it a lot in my professional life, and so I guess, right?
28:20
SPEAKER_01: But to do that for the relationships that are personal to me can be a little bit harder.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And my kids are seven and eight, and they don't love talking, and they're boys, and they don't love talking about feelings much either.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I think just being more intentional, like I would want them to give me that space and try to have those conversations.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: So that would be on my list.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: So that for family growth, right?
28:49
SPEAKER_01: But especially for me to be comfortable personally, right?
28:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, engaging with emotions and being honest about my feelings.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: And then the other thing is, you know, slowing down is really hard for me.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: And so our TV is a little bit on the fritz.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, do we put that down like for the grown-ups, right?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Like as on our Christmas list.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: And uh I don't really want to, but probably slowing down and spending some time, you know, doing fun stuff and mindless stuff, right?
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Is a good thing.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: And so that is a a growth area in some ways to be able to just sit down and relax.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I really love that, Jared.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: Two things.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: The on the TV thing, I had a conversation with Carlos Whitaker, and it was all about being uh disconnected from really his phone, primarily screens and that sort of thing.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: And one of the tips he gave for going into the holidays with the concept that we probably would be sitting around the TV as a family, his challenge was to just have one device that whatever we do in this season, right?
30:01
SPEAKER_00: And in the coming year, let's make it for 2025, especially when we're sitting down with the family.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: Can we just do one thing?
30:08
SPEAKER_00: And I know for threes, that's ridiculously hard.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: For multi-passionate women, it's incredibly hard because, oh, well, this is brainless.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: I can also do this more brain-focused task, right?
30:19
SPEAKER_00: And feel like we get two birds with one stone, but we don't really, right?
30:22
SPEAKER_00: That's not really the slowing.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a great idea.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: Because then we're not relaxing and we're also not engaging with the people around us.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: We're not having the same experience.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: And there's something powerful in having that same experience, even if it is a show in front of us.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, why sometimes going to the theater is the better win, because we're hopefully keeping the phones down.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: You also said something here, Jared, that I think is important to just illuminate a little bit more because your boys are teenagers, Enneagram seven, Enneagram eight, you're a three, your husband's a nine.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: Your household wouldn't go into the deep emotional waters.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's fascinating because your expertise is attachment and parenting.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: And then you add an Enneagram layer.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's brilliant.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: You've got so much information.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And so here you have a perfect example where you have to do this for a profession, which has to deplete you emotionally at some level, because the three, seven, and eight are feelings repressed.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: It's not that we have don't have feelings, it's just that is not what we're in tune with most.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of think, and you probably have something off the top of your head, but there's probably a methodology or resource that you're going to create to help us as you figure it out as well.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Because our kids can't feel like our clients, nor can our husbands, because that's what I experienced at home too.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: So, how do we artfully do that where we invite people into that?
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Or is it just our responsibility of being willing to go there?
31:56
SPEAKER_01: I wish I'd figured have it figured out.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: So I had a nice answer to give you.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: I think, I think it's not being afraid of the conversations.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Right?
32:04
SPEAKER_01: At least at the start.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I said, you know, emotional discussions.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Like if I put it out there and I label it, maybe nobody else will really step into it and engage with it.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: But at least it's part of the environment, part of the atmosphere, um, instead of backing away and keeping things about what we're doing or you know, what we're planning or the task list and the calendar.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Did you get your homework done?
32:32
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that's good.
32:36
unknown: Go ahead.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: So I think also inviting, especially teenagers, they don't have to talk about their feelings.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: If we get them talking about their thoughts, that's right.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Like what are their opinions?
32:48
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:49
SPEAKER_01: It gives us access to feelings in a kind of side door way.
32:54
SPEAKER_01: And you can just kind of comment on them and you don't have to go into it anymore.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, in fact, my Enneagram 7 son will run the other way if I try to engage him with emotions.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: But if I just comment on it and let it go, right, at least, at least I'm doing those building blocks of like, let's put some of that emotional language with our conversation, with our relationship, because that's so important, you know, thinking especially of my boys as they develop their own adult relationships, right?
33:27
SPEAKER_01: As they're dating people, like that it's really important for them to be able to engage emotionally.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: See, I knew if I put you on the spot, you are so smart.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: There would be absolutely insight and information you would have for us.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: And you just gave it.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
33:43
unknown: Sure.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: No, that was really good.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: And I think 2025, there should be a resource as you experiment with it in your home that you could offer us.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: So I think it'd be great.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and along those lines, that reminded me one, I I don't remember where I heard it from.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: And I, it wasn't my own idea.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: It was someone else's brilliant idea, but was to lead sometimes the conversation with sharing, not mom lore necessarily, but your uh mistakes of yesteryear.
34:13
SPEAKER_00: And I found that to be really interesting because I don't think to lead with one past stories because I'm not past focus, but like those moments where I really blew it or the outcome did not have a positive outcome.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: And that was really connecting, even though I didn't know how to anticipate their response.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: And there wasn't like an amazing response in the moment, but I felt like a door opened up that humanized me and that mom space that's important as our kids get older and as we're launching them.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And maybe one of you gave me that insight.
34:52
SPEAKER_00: I could see you, Deanna, telling me or you, Jera.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: So if you did, you can take credit.
34:57
SPEAKER_01: It was not me because I I have a hard time talking about mistakes from my past.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
35:04
SPEAKER_01: Like if if I think about it intentionally, like, oh, this is me being vulnerable.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: This is me allowing my boys to see me for who I really am.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Great, I can do it, but that's not gonna be my natural tone.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Natural.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: It sounds more like uh something Diana would do.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: She's nodding.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: You did.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: I did.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: There we go.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: And I've done it.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: And I've done it.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I had to get to that place for sure where I wasn't feeling the shame with all of those things that I was, but now I'll say it.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: I say it now sometimes just for shock value.
35:38
SPEAKER_03: They'll say, Well, I heard this, this, this, and I'm like, Well, I did that.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: And so great.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: And then we have a conversation around that.
35:47
SPEAKER_03: But I've had lots of conversations with my adult children now where I will apologize for something that I did when they were growing up, or something that I missed, where I missed their heart.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: And I even just the other day I was walking, and this instance came to my mind when it was 20 years ago.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: And I just felt like the Lord wanted to do a little bit more deeper healing there.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: And so I haven't had the conversation yet, but I will.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: So there, I'll I'll take credit for a little bit of that.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: What you remember?
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Please do, please do.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: I love that our Christmas conversation keeps sprinkling in these deep takeaways where, like, oh, this is gonna bring freedom to someone and love it.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: So good.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Sarah, how about you?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: What's the gift on your list that reflects growth?
36:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:37
SPEAKER_04: So if I'm coming from a place of overwhelm, then the standard type to task for growth is to ask for help.
36:46
SPEAKER_04: And for me, I think this year that's gonna look like asking for a one-time house cleaning.
36:53
SPEAKER_04: Because the house is something that I say.
36:59
SPEAKER_04: I always am looking around and seeing all the things that I'm not doing and that I want to bring a clean, taken care of, well-loved house.
37:12
SPEAKER_04: But there are many things that I feel called to do and told to do and expected to do.
37:19
SPEAKER_04: And the house struggles to be at that top of the list for me.
37:23
SPEAKER_04: So I would love to have the house be cleaned by someone else and not feel guilty about that.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: And that is something I've grown into, Sarah.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: And as right, like part of this is household budgets and ability and investment.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: And we're at about like a every other month, sometimes once a quarter now in this season to get help with cleaning my house.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And it is just like, if I can put my money anywhere, like that has been a worthwhile ROI because it's amazing how much mental space that takes.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: And to your point, someone coming cleaning your house can't do all of the things, but allows you to do then the things after that that you wanted to get to, whether it's organize a closet or change out seasonal clothes for the three kids.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And also kind of doing this a little bit, and maybe not all the time, still allows your kids to have to clean and learn the chores because that was my angst too.
38:22
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, are they, are my kids gonna get lazy if I do this?
38:25
SPEAKER_00: And you know, they still have to clean the toilets in between.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And anyway, oh, I really hope that happens for you.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: And maybe, you know, maybe once a quarter even.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
38:36
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I'm already there.
38:37
SPEAKER_04: I'm committed to the regular frequency, but our budget hasn't caught up with me yet.
38:41
SPEAKER_00: It's not there yet.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Soon, soon.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so good though.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that, Sarah.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: I'll be definitely hoping for that one.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, as we finish up, gosh, I've loved this conversation.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: I've loved how we've covered so much here besides just the holiday experience and the insights to your soul and your personality.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: Just a little, you know, rapid finish up here.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear what your favorite holiday decoration is.
39:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, whether it's the ornament on the tree or the wreath on the door, or Jara, clearly, lights are your thing too.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: But I'm sure there's a special thing.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: So we'll start with Deanna and Sarah, you'll finish up.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
39:26
SPEAKER_03: I actually got stuck for a minute, and then I thought the Christmas tree actually would be my favorite thing itself.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: I love we have white lights on it.
39:37
SPEAKER_03: I've never let them put colored lights on there because I love the white lights in the morning, just sitting and have my fake fireplace going and sitting in the dark with Jesus and just reflecting.
39:49
SPEAKER_03: And so I even get my husband to leave my tree up longer than he would like that to happen as a type one.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: Let's get this put away and organized and we'll think about it next year.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, no, I just want one more day, just one more day sitting by the tree.
40:06
SPEAKER_03: So that would be mine for sure.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: Okay, is it fake or real?
40:11
SPEAKER_03: It's fake.
40:12
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
40:13
SPEAKER_03: Who wants to clean up all of those?
40:16
SPEAKER_03: No, no, thank you.
40:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to clean it up, but I like the smell.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm a sucker for the pine tree.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: So smell like pine trees.
40:28
SPEAKER_04: I was gonna say diffuse some oils that smell like pine.
40:31
SPEAKER_04: We can fix that.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's true.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: I know my budget would thank me after the fourth year of having a fake tree, but you know, water a fake tree.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
40:44
SPEAKER_00: My Enneagram aid daughter, if she ever listens, she'll be like, see, mom, everyone else in the world thinks it's the right thing to do.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: It's ongoing debate in our household.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I love it.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Jared, how about you?
40:57
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it's the same thing, Deanna.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: It's a fake tree, it's white lights, but my favorite part is actually hanging up the ornaments.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: And every year we buy our boys some an ornament for something that happened in that year.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: So it may be an activity they did for the first time or a vacation we took to somewhere new.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: And so then when we get out the ornaments, right?
41:22
SPEAKER_01: It's like we're reflecting back on each of the years, the different things that they've done or we've done as a family.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, and I have my ornaments from when I was a kid.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Um and so it's just a lot of memory and history and family time that comes out with the tree.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I love sitting by the lights, but my favorite part is definitely hanging up the ornaments and remembering the things that we have done.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: Look at you upstream practice, reflection, past thinking, way to go.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: All right, Sarah.
41:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was gonna say the nativity set, but my kids like playing with the figurines so much that in their porcelain that now we have cows without heads and shepherd without the staff.
42:15
SPEAKER_04: So I think I would any decoration that has the word joy on it, that's what I notice when I am unboxing and getting everything out.
42:22
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, damn, I sure have a lot of that says the word joy.
42:25
SPEAKER_04: And I do think I was conditioned that way a little bit because my mom's first name is Joy.
42:30
SPEAKER_04: So growing up, we always had a lot of joy items.
42:33
SPEAKER_04: Um I do love seeing the word, being surrounded by the word that does encapsulate the whole season and meaning and feeling of what Christmas should be.
42:45
SPEAKER_04: So I agree with the white light sentiment.
42:47
SPEAKER_04: I love just the softness that the white lights provide and would love twinkles to be everywhere.
42:53
SPEAKER_04: But in addition to that, joy.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Ah, so rich, so beautiful.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: I love this.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: I selfishly love getting to know you each.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: I know we've known each other for going on several years now, but to get to know these special details about your Christmas season, it's a gift to me and it's a gift to my friends.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for showing up and sharing part of your life and your story and giving us a little insight, what it looks like to be you and how you are leading in life.
43:25
SPEAKER_00: So bless you and thank you and Merry Christmas.
43:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: Merry Christmas.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: I know you can't see me while you listen, but did you hear the smile in my voice the whole entire time?
43:41
SPEAKER_00: Ah, it was so much fun.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: I love this conversation with Jara and Deanna and Sarah.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: So sweet.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: And I loved hearing how the unique differences in the types and also the commonalities for the heart triad types.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: Was there something familiar in their celebration, or did you learn something new and maybe something you want to adapt in your celebration?
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Now, next week, of course, we're going to come back with part two of the India Christmas Celebration Style Series.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: You're going to hear from the types in the head triad.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: It's a type 5, 6, and 7.
44:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's another wonderful, fun conversation that is unique and distinct in its own way.
44:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you have a friend who could use some lighthearted inspiration during this busy season, I would love it if you sent this episode and the whole series her way via text or direct message.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the Lord has a name that he wants to put on your heart to encourage and just send them a little gift of, hey, I'm thinking of you, or here's some lighthearted fun to listen to as you run around, bake those cookies, and wrap those gifts, and maybe tie up the loose ends at work.
44:56
SPEAKER_00: I know I always appreciate getting podcast recommendations from friends.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Alright, I can't wait to share next week's conversation with you.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: Until then, remember, friend, we are all broken, we are all blowing it, it's the brave one who does something about it.