Latest / Historic Speeches of the UK House of Commons, Vol. 1 / 011 - Speech on a proposed Channel Tunnel 1888

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011 - Speech on a proposed Channel Tunnel 1888 · Historic Speeches of the UK House of Commons, Vol. 1

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Speech by William Gladstone. This is a LibriVox recording. All
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox dot org. Recording by
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Christine Blashford, speech given to the House of Commons on
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the twenty seventh of June eighteen eighty eight by William Gladstone.
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  Speaker 1: The appeal which has been made to me by the
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: right Honorable Gentleman, the President of the Local Government Board,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: is a very fair appeal. He has a right to know,
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: and I will endeavor to explain to him why, having
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  Speaker 1: been at the head of the government in eighteen eighty four,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: and having voted against proceeding with the Channel Tannel Bill,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I do not take this same course on the present occasion.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: The right Honorable Gentleman has spoken for the government to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: which he belongs, and so far he is in the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: same position as was my right honorable friend, the Member
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: for West Birmingham, when in eighteen eighty five he asked
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the House to put a negative upon the bill. But
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: the right Honorable Gentleman will at once perceive the broad
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: and vital difference between the speech which he has now
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: made in stating the grounds for his preceding, and this speech,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: which was then made by my right honorable friend, the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: right honorable Gentleman has opposed the Channel Tunnel bill, I
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: am sorry to say, upon its merits, upon grounds which
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: will be as good in any future year as they
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: are at the present moment. My right honorable friend, the
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Member for West Birmingham, is not in the House, but
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I have had, within the last week or ten days,
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: an opportunity, through his kindness, of going over the whole
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: ground and testing our several recollections. And I believe I
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: am correct in saying that in the speech of my
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: right honorable friend there was not one word condemnatory of
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  Speaker 1: the Channel Tunnel upon its merits, and that his opposition
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: was an opposition of time and of time only. For
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: my part, I could not have taken then any other position,
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  Speaker 1: and I will presently state why it was that I
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: was a party to opposition on that ground. It is
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  Speaker 1: a matter of justice to the Honorable Member for Hythe
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  Speaker 1: and to the promoters of the Channel Tunnel after what
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: happened in eighteen eighty four and eighteen eighty five. I
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  Speaker 1: believe these were the years, though I am not certain
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  Speaker 1: that I am absolutely correct that I should explain the
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  Speaker 1: view which I took of their case and the reasons
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  Speaker 1: which induced me at that period without any doubt or
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: hesitation to go in the opposition to the progress of
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: the bill. I am very glad to think, after the
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: debate of last night, that we are now engaged in
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a discussion of a very different kind. I do not
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  Speaker 1: think that any person who agrees with me will be
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  Speaker 1: induced to vote against the government from any desire to
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  Speaker 1: displace it, or that any gentleman who will vote with
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: the government will do so upon the ground that this
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  Speaker 1: is one of the sacrifices required from them to protect
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: the country against the danger of a liberal invasion of
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  Speaker 1: the benches opposite. On the other hand, I am afraid
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that our arguments in this matter are looked upon as
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: singularly unsatisfactory by our opponents. On political questions, we often
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: feel that at any rate there is something in what
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: the other man says. But on this occasion we seem
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  Speaker 1: to get at the ultimate principles and modes of thinking
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: which are fixed on one side and fixed on the other,
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  Speaker 1: and which would lead us to describe the opposite arguments
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  Speaker 1: in very disrespectful terms. The right honorable gentleman has stated
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  Speaker 1: his case with force, clearness and ability, and yet I
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  Speaker 1: frankly own and franknesses, after all a great virtue the
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  Speaker 1: whole of the considerations he has advanced, and his arguments
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  Speaker 1: against this tunnel are neither better nor worse than mea
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  Speaker 1: and shea bug bears. Having gone thus far in the
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  Speaker 1: exercise of frankness, I will, for the rest of my
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: speech endeavor to fall back on the virtue of courtesy,
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  Speaker 1: and I will not recur to the use of any
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  Speaker 1: language of that character by which I only meant to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: illustrate the position in which we stand to one another,
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  Speaker 1: and which we unhappily aggravated in eighteen eighty four. Now, Sir,
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  Speaker 1: this subject was first introduced to me by a Tory
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Chancellor of the Exchequer. It was first introduced to me
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  Speaker 1: in the year eighteen sixty five by a gentleman whose
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  Speaker 1: name will always be mentioned with respect in this house.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: I mean mister ward Hunt. He was not Chancellor of
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  Speaker 1: the Exchequer at that exact time, for I was. He
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  Speaker 1: came to me as the leader of a deputation, and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: endeavored to induce, or perhaps I should say, to seduce me,
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  Speaker 1: the Chancellor of the Exchequer, to Lord Palmerston, into giving
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  Speaker 1: my support to the promotion of this dangerous project. Mister
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: ward Hunt was totally insensible of the dreadful nature of
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the petition he was making, notwithstanding his position in the
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  Speaker 1: Conservative Party. He was totally unaware of all the dangers
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that have been pointed out by the right honorable gentleman opposite.
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  Speaker 1: And here, Sir, I am obliged to correct a statement
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: of my honorable friend, the Member for Hive, who, on
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  Speaker 1: the authority of someone or other, alleged that I, alone
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  Speaker 1: among the ministers of that day, was disposed to give
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  Speaker 1: a guarantee in some shape or other to the promoters
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  Speaker 1: of the project. I was never disposed to give a
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  Speaker 1: guarantee to the extent of one single farthing to the
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  Speaker 1: promoters of this scheme, or any other scheme of a
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  Speaker 1: similar kind. I find it necessary for my own credit,
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  Speaker 1: perhaps at any rate, for the truth of history, to
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  Speaker 1: disclaim it. Sir, I was instructed on behalf of the government,
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  Speaker 1: and with my own full concurrence, to refuse a guarantee.
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  Speaker 1: But we did so without giving the slightest opposition to
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: the tunnel scheme. A series of other governments followed, and
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  Speaker 1: every one of those governments officially committed itself on the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: merits of the tunnel, Lord Granville on the part of
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: the government of eighteen sixty eight, Lord Derby on the
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: part of the government of eighteen seventy four. And I
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: think the senior Lord Derby, the distinguished Prime Minister of
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a former period, expressed precisely similar sentiments. And every one
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: of these governments, acting unani, was engaged so far in
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  Speaker 1: the promotion of this project that they gave it their
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  Speaker 1: unequivocal sanction. Nor did they stop there, but they entered
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  Speaker 1: upon international proceedings. Communications were established with France. A commission
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: was appointed on the part of the two countries. And
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  Speaker 1: I do not wish to bring home to the minds
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: of honorable and right honorable gentlemen the degree to which
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  Speaker 1: our honour and our dignity in an international aspect are
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  Speaker 1: involved in the question before the House. I must say
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: that that is one of the most serious considerations that
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: operate on my mind with regard to the promotion of
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  Speaker 1: this bill. The two governments jointly constituted a commission to
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: consider the details the important and difficult details of the
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  Speaker 1: schemes by means of which this great project could be
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  Speaker 1: best advanced. The principle of the project was taken for
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  Speaker 1: granted on the one side, and on the other when
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  Speaker 1: we entered into these general proceedings with the French government,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the Commission laid down conditions which were to be the
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  Speaker 1: basis of a treaty between the two countries, and the
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  Speaker 1: actual signature of the treaty was suspended, not upon the
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  Speaker 1: ground of any political apprehension whatever, but simply, I believe
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  Speaker 1: upon the ground that financial cons considerations did not at
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  Speaker 1: that moment favor the progress of this scheme. What dwells
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  Speaker 1: upon my mind is this that there was very much
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  Speaker 1: of the character of an engagement of honor in the
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  Speaker 1: proceedings between England and France. And that is a matter
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  Speaker 1: of some difficulty to justify the recession of a kingdom
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  Speaker 1: like this from a position of that kind, after you
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  Speaker 1: have voluntarily and deliberately, and after long thought and reflection,
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  Speaker 1: made it the subject of such international proceedings. The right
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  Speaker 1: Honorable Gentleman says, and I have no doubt, very truly,
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  Speaker 1: that there are serious objections raised by the military authorities
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  Speaker 1: against the scheme. Well, Sir, at the time I am
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  Speaker 1: speaking of, the opinion of the military authorities was in
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  Speaker 1: favor of the tunnel. The two governments did not act
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  Speaker 1: in respect of the tunnel without consulting the military authorities,
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  Speaker 1: and those military authorities whom the government had to consult
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  Speaker 1: were distinctly favorable to the tunnel. But I think I
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  Speaker 1: may go a little further than that, and may venture
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  Speaker 1: to read, at least for the purpose of challenging contradiction,
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  Speaker 1: if it can be challenged, a short extract from a
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  Speaker 1: very well informed memorandum with which I have been supplied
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  Speaker 1: on the part of the promoters, and which is one
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  Speaker 1: which can easily be brought to issue. The extract to
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  Speaker 1: which I refer says it was not until the autumn
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  Speaker 1: of eighteen eighty one that any military opinion adverse to
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  Speaker 1: the tunnel was expressed. Now, Sir, that is a remarkable fact.
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  Speaker 1: The tunnel was then a scheme twenty years old. It
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  Speaker 1: had been discussed in every possible form, it had been
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  Speaker 1: the subject of much official correspondence, and it had received
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  Speaker 1: the ascent of a number of governments. Those governments would
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  Speaker 1: not have assented, and did not assent without the authority
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  Speaker 1: of the military department and the advice of their military advisers.
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  Speaker 1: And until the year eighteen eighty one, these portentous discoveries
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  Speaker 1: which have taken possession of the mind and imagination of
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  Speaker 1: the right Honorable gentlemen, and I suppose of those who
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  Speaker 1: sit near him, were never heard of. Surely, that is
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  Speaker 1: rather a staggering circumstance. And now I will relate the
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  Speaker 1: facts upon which the government of eighteen eighty one and
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  Speaker 1: the following years had to base itself in dealing with
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  Speaker 1: this subject. At that time we find that the military
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  Speaker 1: authorities had commenced their opposition, and a great ferment began
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  Speaker 1: to prevail. A combination of powers was brought into operation.
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  Speaker 1: The literary authorities were brought to back up the military authorities.
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  Speaker 1: Great poets invoke the muses and strove not as great
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: poets and other times used to do to embolden their
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  Speaker 1: countrymen by conjuring up phantoms and danger that were not
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  Speaker 1: fit to be presented to anybody except to that valuable
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: class of the community that the right Honorable Gentleman has
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: described in his speech as suffering occasionally the pains of
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: sea sickness. Then, Sir, the army, the military host, and
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: the literary host were backed by the opinion of what
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  Speaker 1: is called society, and society is always ready for the
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: enjoyment of the luxury of a good panic. There is
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  Speaker 1: nothing more enjoyable than a good panic when that panic
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: is based on a latent conviction that the thing which
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  Speaker 1: it contemplates is not in the least degree likely to happen.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: These speculative panics, these panics in the air, have an
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: attraction for certain classes of minds that is indescribable. And
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  Speaker 1: these classes of minds, I am bound to say, are
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  Speaker 1: very largely to be found among the educated portion of society.
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  Speaker 1: The subject of this panic never touched the mind of
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  Speaker 1: the nation. These things are not accessible to the mind
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: of the Dada. They are accessible to what is called
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: the public opinion of the day, that is to say,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: public opinion manufactured in London by great editors and clubs,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: who are at all times formidable and a great power
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: for the purposes of the moment, but who are a
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: greater power and become an overwhelming power when they are
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  Speaker 1: backed by the threefold forces of the military and literary
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  Speaker 1: authorities and the social circles of London. Well Sir. These
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: powers among them created at that period such panic that
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  Speaker 1: even those who were most favorable to the tunnel, of
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  Speaker 1: whom I was one, thought it quite vain to offer
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: a direct opposition. We therefore proposed the appointment of a
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: joint committee. And the issue of that joint committee has
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: been very fairly stated by the right honorable gentlemen. I
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  Speaker 1: am bound to make a fair admission, and I do
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: it in the presence of my noble friend, the Member
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  Speaker 1: for the Rossendale Division of Lancashire, whose opinion at the
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: time I do not now remember that although in the
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: government of eighteen sixty eight, to which he and I belonged,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: there never was a question as to the propriety of
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: the tunnel, and Lord Granville wrote in that sense, and
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: even instituted communications with France. Yet when we come to
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: the government of eighteen eighty and the circumstances of eighteen
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: eighty one, eighteen eighty two and eighteen eighty three, a
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: change of opinion did find its way even into the cabinet.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: Some of us were what I should call not quite sound,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and others of us were, and we all agreed that
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: the best thing we could do was to refer the
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: matter to this impartial tribunal, and when that tribunal reported,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: there was no improvement in the circumstances. If I am
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: asked why, under these circumstances I took part in throwing
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: out the Channel Ternal Bill, my answer is that we,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the government, were engaged in arduous affairs. Powers were put
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: very freely into action against us at that time, which
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: are now happily in abeyance. We deemed that it was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: our duty to have some regard to the time of Parliament.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: We knew it was impossible to pass the bill. It
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: was a time of tempest, and as sensible men in
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: time of tempest are not satisfied with the shelter of
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: an umbrella and seek shelter under the roof of some
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: substantial building, so we acted. Whether or not we ought
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: to have shown more heroism, I do not know, but
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: we thought it idle to persevere in a hopeless struggle.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: We did not in the least condemn the tunnel on
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: its merits. We did not think there was the slightest
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: chance of proceeding with the bill to the end, and
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: we therefore invited Parliament not to bestow its time on
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: a discussion which we believe to be perfectly useless. That
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: was the principle on which we proceeded at the time.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: I will say a little upon the arguments of the
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: right Honorable Gentleman, but I am not going to attempt
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to follow those arguments as if we were engaged in
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: a debate like that of last night. I do not
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: think it would be expedient or convenient to make this
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: a debate between both sides of the house. There are
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: some on this side of the house who are probably unsound,
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: beside those who are usually so, and I hope there
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: are some on that side who are sound, And therefore
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the house is totally without prejudice. But there is one
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: thing which fell from the right Honorable Gentleman which I regret,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and that was his comparison between the internal condition of
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: France at the present time and the internal condition of
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: France some six or seven years ago. I own I
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: think it was an error to enter upon the chapter
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: of the subject, even if the right Honorable Gentleman entertains
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the opinion which he apparently does entertain. But as he
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: has said that he thinks there is not the same
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: prospect of stability in France now as then I must
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: give myself the satisfaction so far of expressing quite a
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: different opinion. And I may remind the government and the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: House of this that the French Republic never since eighteen
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: seventy has been called upon to pass through so severe
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: a crisis as the crisis not yet I think, twelve
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: months old, with respect to the appointment of a president.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: That was the most trying experience which it has had
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: to go through, and it has made many of its
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: friends and well wishes tremble as to the issue. It
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: made every sound and right minded man in France apprehensive
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: of what was to happen. And I rejoice to say
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that France and the institutions of France came through the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: struggle with as much calm, temper and solidity as any
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: country in the world could have done. That is one
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: thing I feel it right to say, in consequence of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: what fell from the right honorable gentleman. Following the right
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: honorable gentleman opposite, I do not touch on the engineering question,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: neither will I touch upon the commercial question, except to say, frankly,
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that I differ from the right honorable gentleman, and I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: believe the commercial advantages of this tunnel would be enormous.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I have nothing whatever to do with engineering or command questions.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I am here simply as a member of Parliament to
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: see whether there is any reason why I should withhold
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: my assent to the plan. Now, Sir, I have used
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: the familiar illustration of the umbrella as shelter in a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: storm after hearing the speech of the Right Honorable Gentleman,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: I am not quite sure whether the storm is still
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: going on, but I was under the impression that the
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: panic had passed away. My impression has been, and in
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the main way impression is that the literary alarm and
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: the social alarm, which backed up by the military alarm,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: are very greatly allayed, and that we have now what
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: we had not five or six years ago, a chance
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: of a fair, temperate and candid discussion. The Right Honorable
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Gentleman refers to a land frontier as if it were
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: an unmixed evil. No doubt it is less secure upon
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the whole than a sea frontier. But he must not
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: forget that a land frontier has enormous advantages with respect
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to intercourse between man and man, which are of great
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: consequence in the view of those who believe that peace
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and not war is the natural condition in which we
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: live with foreign countries. But on the question of procuring
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: a land frontier, if it is a land frontier, which
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I do not think it is, the habitual and standing
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: advantages of a land frontier are enormous compared with its
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: occasional disadvantages and dangers. With regard to the political and
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: military objections, I must say I feel pained as an
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Englishman in considering the extensive revolution of opinion that has
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: taken place for twenty years, this project lived and flourished,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Difficult in an engineering sense, very difficult in a technical sense,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: and as a financial question. I do not presume to
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: enter upon those questions, and I lead them to those
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: who better understand them, but with no doubt cast on it.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: From the point of view of the security of this country. Now, Sir,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: a transition from darkness to light has taken place, and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: it ought to be hailed, notwithstanding all the inconveniences which
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: accompany such transactions. And it is rather a serious question
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: for us to consider whether the English nation and government
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: from eighteen sixty to eighteen eighty, or whether the influences
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: which acted during the years eighteen eighty three to four
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and eighteen eighty five, and which are to some extent
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: acting now lead us in the right or wrong direction.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Speaking of the dangers of a land frontier, the right
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: honorable gentleman is, in a lugubrious manner, said that this
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: end of the tunnel must always be the subject of
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: great anxiety. While if this end of the tunnel is
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: to be the subject of great anxiety, what will the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: other end be? But strange to say, I find that
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the other end of the tunnel is the subject of
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: no anxiety at all. Many of us are in the
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: habit of considering the French nation as light minded, with
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: great resources and great ingenuity, talents and ingenuity, but still
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: light minded, unlike ourselves, solid and stable, perhaps rather heavy,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: but at any rate, a very steady going people, who
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: make up our minds slowly and resolutely, and do not
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: change them. Oh, I am not speaking for myself. I
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: am only speaking on behalf of my country. But I
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: would ask honorable gentlemen to apply this test to the
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: case of the French people. I must say that they
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: have treated this matter with the most dignified self restraint
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and consistency throughout. I am bound to give my opinion,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and I think the French, had they any other than
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the most friendly disposition with regard to ourselves, might have
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: made serious complaints of the manner of their treatment in
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: having been invited to embark on this enterprise, to an
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: extent only short of the signature of the treaty, when
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: we receded from the ground and left the light minded
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: people standing in exactly their original attitude, while we, not
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: the nation, but the government and the circles of opinion
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: known in London have very considerably altered. Well. But you
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: will say, the question of our invading France is not
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a matter to be considered at all. Therefore the other
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: end of the tunnel does not seriously enter into the question.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: The real question that we have before us is the
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: likelihood of the coming of that unhappy day. I agree
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: it is a perfectly possible thing. I think and hope
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: it is nothing more than a possible event. Still, it
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: must be taken into consideration when England will be invaded
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: by France. I am very much behind the Age in
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: a great many respects, and I am sorry to say,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: very much behind the representatives of the Age who sit
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the House. For I have
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the habit of being guided to a certain extent in
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: anticipations of the future by considerations of the past. I
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: know that it is a mode of looking at a
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: subject entirely dismissed from consideration at present. For about eight
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: hundred years, beginning from the conquest. I want to know
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: which country has oftenest invaded the other. And I will
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: stake this proposition that the invasions of France by England
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: have been tenfold more than the invasions of the British
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Islands by France. Do you believe in a total revolution
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: in the means of action between the two countries? I
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: do not believe it. There has indeed been a great
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: change in one matter, that of population. Now, Sir, during
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the Revolutionary Wars? What happened the Great Napoleon, the most
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: wonderful general and strategist of modern times, the man of
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: whom doctor Dollinger says that he raised war as to
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: the mode of its planning and execution, not as to
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: its morality, almost to the dignity and attitude of a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: fine art, addressed the whole of his resources and thoughts
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to the invasion of England. Ireland was tried three times
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: by the directory, and three times there were miserable failures.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Two other fleets had set out, one from Holland and
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: one from Spain, and they have been destroyed by the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: power of British arms at sea. But Napoleon made a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: study nightly and daily to devise and arrange the means
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: of invading England, and he was obliged to recede from
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it as an impossible task, not that it is an
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: impossible task. Do not suppose that I am going to
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: say anything so extravagant. I am going to say this.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: It is worthwhile for those who have those portentous ideas
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of the power of France, and so small an idea
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: of our means of defense, to consider the relative population
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: of the two countries. At the time when Napoleon prosecuted
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: his schemes. The population of Great Britain was ten million,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: the population of France twenty two million. I will not
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: count the population of Ireland for at that period. Unfortunately,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: as at others, it added nothing to the military resources
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: of this country for repelling invasion, While ten million Englishmen
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: constituted the sum of those whom Napoleon had to invade,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: and he could not manage it At the present moment.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: This island contains far more than thirty million men, not
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: less strong, not less determined, not less energetic than the
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: ten million in Napoleon's time at the beginning of the century,
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: and they are close in mere numbers upon the population
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: of France. Here, then are two countries, and the question
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: is whether one will invade the other by means of
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the Channel tunnel. This is a country that has incessantly
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: invaded France, and I am not sorry to say that,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: though we did it with marvelous success five hundred years ago,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: we have not always been equally successful in recent years.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Though there is the paramount case of eighteen fifteen, with
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: respect to which, if a parallel case could be quoted
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: on the other side for the action of England and Wellington,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: I would admit that there would be something more in
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: the argument of the right Honorable Gentleman than I can
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: allow that it contained. As matters stand, I shall be
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: told that Napoleon had no steam. That appears to be
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: a strong argument, but it is capable of being used
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: both ways. I believe that the invention of steam and
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the great revolution that we have seen in shipbuilding have
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: enormously increased our means of defense as compared with those
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: of France. I believe that our defensive power in times
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: of crisis would develop itself with a rapidity to an extent,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: and with an efficiency that would surpass all previous examples
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: and would astonish the world. There is one question that
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I should like to ask, what is the ground taken
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: up by those gentlemen who point to our security as
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: the main matter which we have to consider. Do they
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: mean on that ground to limit our communications with France?
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Do they mean, as in the time of Queen Anne,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: to abate our trade with France as being a source
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of danger and insecurity. No, says the right honorable gentleman,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: opposite anything, But it extends your communications to the uttermost.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Give every facility by which men a material, for the
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: word goods is synonymous with material can pass from one
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: country to the other. But do not sanction the construction
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: of this tunnel. That is the plan of the right
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: honorable gentleman. He proposes that the harbours of the country
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: should be enlarged. He set no limit to the range
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: of his philanthropy and enlightened views upon this matter. He
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: has no apprehension upon this subject. While my apprehension of
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: invasions is not great. But if I am to conjure
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: up any prospect of danger, I tell the right honorable
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Gentleman deliberately that his plan of harbours in great ships,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: and of making the channel a high road to be
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: crossed with wonderful rapidity, presents ten times the danger that
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: the danger that the prospects of the tunnel could possibly present.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: The most excitable mind. Now, one word about the opinion
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: of the military authorities. I'm not going to speak of
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: them with contempt. On the contrary, I must say that
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I have the deepest respect for the profession of the soldier,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: and especially for the function of the commander in the field,
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: charged with the care of large bodies of men, with
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: the duty of making the most of the resources of
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the country, and with the enormously difficult task of bringing
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: all to bear on a particular point, under particular circumstances
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: and at a particular time, for the purpose of war.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: That I deem to be one of the highest and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: most extraordinary trials to which the human mind can be subjected.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And I do not know any other position in which
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: the demand for energy and the exercise of every great
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: quality of human force is so tremendous and overwhelming. Therefore,
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: in the opinion of Lord Wolseley, whom I believe to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: be a man extremely valuable to his country in the
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: great and possible sometingency of military danger and military effort,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: I have the profoundest respect, as I have for the
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: opinion of other military authorities. But that respect is mainly
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: due in relation to the operations of war, or measures
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: directly connected with the operations of war. On other matters
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: not so connected, their judgment carries weight, and always will
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: carry weight. But in questions of this character, the judgment
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: of military authorities cannot be accepted as infallible. And we
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: find that the prescriptions and recommendations of the military authorities
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of one day or one year are disavowed and reversed
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: by the military authorities of another time. We were told
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty that Lord palmes AND's fortifications would give
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: us such a state of security that we need never
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: be alarmed again. But have we not had within these
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: latter years alarms more poignant, more startling, more costly, than
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: perhaps were ever reached before in times of peace. And
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: these fortifications are regarded apparently by those who recommended them
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: with the greatest indifference. If I am asked to rely
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: on the opinion of military authorities as infallible and required
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to surrender my own poor judgment and responsibility into their hands,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I would quote the name of Alderney. If there is
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: a single creation on earth that may be called the
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: creation of military authority, it is the work now represented
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: by the remains, the ruins, the shreds and tatters of
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: the fortifications at Alderney. Save that the funds were supplied
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: from the treasury, these works were a military creation. I know.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: It is sometimes said that all faults and imperfections in
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: such cases are due to the impertinent interference of civilians.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: But what civilian had anything to do with the works
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: at Alderney. I had to do with them in the
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: sense of yielding to the imperative demands of the military
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: authorities of that day. Excellent, able and highly distinguished men
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: they were, Heir John Bargoygne, Sir Henry Harding, and others
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: who adorn our military annals. They told us that with
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: an expenditure of one hundred and fifty thousand pounds, Sherbourg
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: would be sealed up, and no hostile fleet would ever
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: issue from it. I was the man who proposed this expenditure,
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: and the House agreed to it thirty five years ago.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: But I need not say that the matter did not
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: stop there. The expenditure went up to one million, five
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand pounds, and I am not sure whether it
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: stopped short of two million pounds, and of that there
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: now remained, but the miserable fragments of that work a
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: monument of human folly, useless to us as regards any
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: purpose for which we were urged by military authorities to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: adopt their plan, but perhaps not absolutely useless to a
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: possible enemy with whom we may at some period have
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: to deal, and who may possibly be able to extract
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: some profit in the way of shelter and accommodation from
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the ruins. Then take another and very different example from
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: another branch of the subject. I wish to speak of
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: nothing but of which I have some personal knowledge. Everybody
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: knows that in the crisis of a great war, the
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: only an appalling difficulty, if not danger, of this country,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: is the fewness of men, and not the scantness of
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: any other resources. Whatever we were until the forethought and
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: sagacity of Lord Palmerston and Lord John Russell relieved us
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: of the task in military occupation of the Ionian Islands.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Our garrison there used to consist in times of peace
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: of six thousand or seven thousand men, and I believe
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: it was admitted that, considered in reference to times of war,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: and in reference to reserves, such soldiers as we would
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: require to have there would stand to our debt in
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: time of war at not less than twelve thousand men.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I am not speaking of political considerations, but I do
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: not think any man in this house will say it
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: is desirable to be charged with the responsibility of maintaining
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: twelve thousand men in a time of great war, for
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the purpose of maintaining a hold, even if it were
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: otherwise possible upon Corfu, Cephalonia, Zanti and the other Ionian isles.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: But at that time military authorities were unanimous in their
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: belief and strongly urged upon the government that the maintenance
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: of our military hold upon the Ionian Islands was a great,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: if not an essential, element in the maintenance of our
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: power in the Mediterranean. Something we must admit is to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: be allowed for the professional zeal of men who know
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: no bounds to the service they render and the sacrifices
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: they are prepared to make when the country has occasion
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: to call for their services. But much must also be
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: allowed for the fallibility of human judgment when applied to
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: an object they consider it necessary to secure. And these
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: are considerations which in some degree equalize our position, though
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: not absolutely to the position of the military authorities. It
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: seems ludicrous for a person like myself to give an
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: opinion on the military danger of the Channel Tunnel in
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: the face of the opinion of military authorities. But I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: cannot get rid of the feeling. And it is simply
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: common sense that when I endeavor to consider all the
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: points which I will not now enter upon in detail,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I am bound to point out that it is not
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: a safe thing for us to say we have military
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: authorities who tell us this thing or that, and we
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: ought to be satisfied, when of necessity, we have before
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: our eyes many exemplary cases where the predictions and injunctions
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of military authorities have been totally falsified. And when we
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: know that what is preached by the military authorities of
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: today is the direct reversal of what was thought and
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: taught by military authorities twenty or thirty years ago under
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: the circumstances, I trust we have arrived at a time
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: of comparative calm, when the matter can be considered without prejudice,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: which was not possible in eighteen eighty three. If I
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: may presume to refer to an old and homely proverb,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Philip was then drunk, but Philip is now I trust sober.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: And it is in the sobriety of Philip that I
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: place all my confidence. I hope, sir, I am not
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: going beyond parliamentary etiquette if I express my hearty congratulations
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that you, sir, in the midst of the storm and excitement,
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: were one of the men who have fixed a signature
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: to the Minority report on the subject. I believe even
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: now we have arrived at a happier time, when the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: gallant enterprise for I must call it so arduous and difficult,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: as it is of my honorable friend, the Member for Hive,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: has some chance of fair judgment. The opinion of the
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: nation was never against it. A fictitious opinion which is
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: sometimes assumed to be national opinion was too strong against
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: it at one period, and it was too strong for me.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: And it even now exists, but weakened and brought within
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: moderate bounds. And there is now some chance for common
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: sense and the exercise of that spirit of enterprise that
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: has been at all times among the noblest characteristics of
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: our country. End of speech.