Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 300: How I Wrote Erin Brockovich with Susannah Grant

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BPS 300: How I Wrote Erin Brockovich with Susannah Grant · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletroof
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screen Rinning Podcast, Episode number three hundred. Life is full of challenges.
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How you handle these challenges It's what builds character. Never be afraid to be
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who you are. Aaron Brockovich broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood
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when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting
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Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to
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make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome,
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Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host
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Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now.
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Today on the show, we have Academy Award nominee Susannah Grant, and
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Susannah wrote the Oscar winning film Aaron Brockovich, as well as Twenty eight Days
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with Sandra Bullock, in Her Shoes with Cameron Diaz, Catch and Release with
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Jennifer Garden, Her Charlotte's Webb, The Soloist with Robert Downey and Jamie Fox,
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and so so, so much more. Susanna and I have a deep
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sit down conversation about her process, her journey as a screenwriter, and advice
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that she gives to up and coming screenwriters trying to break into the business today.
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So, without any further ado, let's dive in. I'd like to
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welcome to the show. Susannah Grant, how you doing, Susanna, I'm
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great, Alex, how are you. I'm doing very good. Thank you
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so much for coming on the show. I've been a fan of your work
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from twenty eight days too in her Shoes. I love romantic comedies of course,
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Aaron Brockovich, and even Pocahonnas too, when I was good and well
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in the nineties. I have I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do.
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But even but you were coming in on Pocahonnas. You were coming in
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at that wave of the nineties, late eighties, early and end the Little
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Mermaid, Lion King a Ladd and it was just printing money. Yeah,
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they were. They were doing really beautiful work and bringing back the movie musical
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which was fantastic, and so I was really happy to be a part of
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it. And you know, it's not how, it's not how we would
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make a story about Native Americans today, which shows you that we've Yeah,
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there have been some advances, um there, but I learned a ton,
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I learned a ton. I have not gone back into animation because animation is
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not covered by the Guild. So, um, oh it isn't. I
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don't know, it's not. It's actually covered by a different union oddly,
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which has to do with the history of animation. But um, no writing
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for writing for us. So you know, I look at Linda Wolverton,
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who wrote these huge Disney movies, and the amount of money she has not
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received for her work that she would have been a Union project anyway, that's
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another story. But I have not worked in animation since largely because of that.
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But um, but it's a really rigorous place to start because the tradition
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of animation is that the story artists tell the story storyboard artists. That was
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how it was done early in the day at Disney, and Howard Ashman and
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Alan Menkin brought in writers and that was the beginning of this sort of renaissance
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that they that they brought in. So we were writers. I had two
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partners on that, Karl Binder and Philip Zevnik, and but there were also
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story artists who considered themselves writers. So you would there was a lot of
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tension in it, which was uh, you know, good and bad,
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but there was Um, it was incredibly rigorous. You know, there's no
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scene in that movie that was written any fewer than thirty thirty five times.
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It was just over and over and over for your first gig. It's really
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good. It's a it's like a boot camp, you know. How does
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I mean seriously? Because I was going to ask you about Polkahans, But
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since we started there while and we just keep going because I have friends who
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are animators. I've been inside the Disney studios. I see how they work,
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and he told me all about the process and the directors and how they
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work with the storyboard artist. But it must be frustrating as a writer to
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have storyboard art basically storyboard artist dictating story as a writer, and it must
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have been just been this really interesting thing to deal with as a as a
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young writer as well. Yeah. Well, and I haven't been there in
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the sort of post Pixar universe, and you know, I don't know how
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they're doing it now. And at the time, you know, the animation
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tradition is very profound and sacred to people. So you don't want to dishonor
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that I was. I was still in film school, you know when I
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got that job. So did you get the job? You know? I
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my first year of film school, I won the Nickel Fellowship, which is
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a fellowship that the Academy gives, and that just gives your work more visibility,
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and then you start meeting folks. And I did, and I had
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I was in school. I was still in school. I had a second
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year of film school. So I would get offered jobs that just smelled like
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really bad jobs that would go nowhere. And I had the luxury of being
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able to say no because I was in film. I was in school,
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you know, so it had to be appealing enough to pull me away from
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getting my masters, which I want to get. And then eventually, you
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know, after I said no to a few things from Disney Animation, I
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learned quickly that saying no doesn't mean they'll never ask you again. It just
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means they'll offer you something better. So eventually they came to me, I
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mean it came to me with some ideas like we don't even know what this
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is. It's just a word, you know, wales, whales, And
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I thought, no, I don't that that movie is never ever getting me.
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By the way, all the things they pitched me before this, I
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think there were about five of them. None have gotten made. So really,
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I actually had a wonderful teacher in film school named Jerry Cass, and
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I would sort of float it by him, and he'd go, now,
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don't do it, don't do it. Um. And then they called one
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day and said this one has a release date, and I thought, mat,
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all right, all right, jock out of film school early for something,
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the whole polka. Yeah, that's who the whole polkahonest thing. I
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think it works. Yeah, I think we have a release date. It's
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gonna go. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, I was new,
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and I was green, and I was humble, and I had two other
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writers who were great pals and great writers, and uh, you know,
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anytime it gets rough, for god's sake, you're doing a Disney animated movie,
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and you're you know, I was. I was never unaware of how
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fortunate I was, so even on the difficult days, I was happy to
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be there. Yeah, it's it's it's a magical place. I've been in
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and many times of Disney animation, and it is. It's a beautiful,
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wonderful And I've heard stories. I remember Tangled was in development for ten years.
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Everything on it I saw that, I saw the art was a completely
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different from what we saw a year before release. Stripped it all start again,
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and they did that with every single movie since. No White still hard.
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Yeah, they are not precious. And the great thing is when you're
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working on one of them. You know, when we were working on Pocahontas,
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Lion King was in its finishing stages, so we had the advantage of
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being adjacent to that work, which was tremendous. And then Hunchback was behind
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us, so we were aware of that as well, and so, um,
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you know you're had a part of this continuum. Um, it was
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a magical time. It was that that those that five to ten year window
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of Disney animation was pretty remarkable. It's hard for people to understand because it
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was pretty much dead in the water. Yes, it was until Little Mermaid
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showed up, and then we're like, oh, okay, until Alan Menckin
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and Howard Ashman came in and said Katzenberg and Katzenberg came in and started doing
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some stuff. And there was some professional meeting. Was a meeting with Jeffrey
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I think it was at seven thirty in the morning on Mother's Day Sunday.
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Of course, of course there was some rigor to that, to say the
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least. So so your first writing gig was out of school, was straight
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into Disney Studios, working with it So after you've done with that whole process,
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you then started working on television. You went into Party five, which
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you and I really hadn't had a planned to work in television, you know.
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I my sort of house of worship growing up, as it was,
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was a movie movie theater. We'll be right back after a word from our
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sponsor, and now back to the show. So that felt like the sort
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of form of American storytelling I was dying to be a part of and contribute
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to. And that was a conversation I wanted to be a part of.
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But I got this pilot shown to me that was made by Chris Kaiser and
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Amy Littmann called Party of Five, and it was beautiful and it felt like
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my sensibility and they were the best people in the world, and I didn't,
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you know, And so I went and did that for a bit.
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Yeah, you did that for a few years. So let me ask you
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what were some of the biggest lessons working in that writer's room. And really
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kind of because it's one thing is being a feature writer and another one is
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being a TV writer. It's it's a grind. It's a daily grind with
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television as opposed to features. In writing, which is take your time.
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You can think. It's also a daily grind. It is no, no,
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it is no. I was lonely or daily grind, right, But
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a lot of times if you're doing a spec or something, you could you
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could be on that spec for five years. This is like there's a deadline
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and you've gotta go, you gotta do there is Yeah, it's funny.
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When I look back at it, I really think of the lessons I learned
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less being about craft and UM being more about how do you how do you
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choose to live this writer's life. That was a remarkably wonderful group of people
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who were kind to each other and supportive of each other and funny and you
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could you could share your idiocy with them and they would only love you more,
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you know. And this is exactly the kind of environment you want for
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a beautiful, collaborative UM workplace. And it's sort of set in my head
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that as a bar and I've really actually been quite fortunate and that I've had
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very few professional collaborations that have not felt like that. I mean, I've
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had them, you know, and you sort of work through them as quickly
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as possible. But but that was the biggest lesson there that for me,
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not for everyone. There are people who thrive in chaos and conflict and their
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best work comes out of it. For me, that is the environment that
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brings out my best work. So that was one lesson and the other was
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you just keep working on it till it's good enough. You know, you
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just keep working on it till it's good enough. And I would put the
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scenes up on my wall that because you sort of outlined it together, and
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I would have a bar for myself. I wouldn't put a red check mark
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on it saying it was done until I had surprised myself in the scene and
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turned it into something that I hadn't anticipated, or found something within it that
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I haven't anticipated would be there from the outline, you know. So it
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just I found, I guess, a bar that made the work feel alive
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and interesting as opposed to flat and dead. You know the scene where X
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happens, Well, if it's a scene or X happens, how can you
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make that alive? How can you surprise yourself? How can you surprise your
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viewer? How can you find an element of it that you didn't know was
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going to be there? Going in? You know which is the most exciting
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stuff to watch where humanity sort of peeks out unexpectedly. So you mentioned that,
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you know you've obviously had some not so harmonious collaborations. I think in
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the business in general, we all have that. We all have to deal
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with that at one point or another. Do you have any advice on how
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to walk that path a bit? And depending on collaborators and who you're working
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with, because we're talking about there's the difference between a PA collaborating with a
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director and a writer collaborating with a director or an executive producer on the show
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things like that, how do you deal at that higher level when you're with
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collaborators, Boy, it really all depends on who that collaborator is and what
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their particular approach to work and a work environment is. UM. I've had
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ones where I've I've worked with a director where it felt like, how to
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say this delicately, ego was a big, big, big presence in the
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room at the no and UM, and then just by sort of sitting there,
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it felt like there were three people in the room at the beginning,
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me, the director, and the ego. But if you just sit there
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calmly and say, and just don't don't don't dance with it, you know,
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don't don't dance with it, don't engage it, don't fight it.
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Just it. If if the creative vision matches gradually, sometimes that will just
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ease its way out of the room, you know. But sometimes it won't.
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Sometimes it's just like sometimes you are working with a chaos monster and you
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will never see eye to eye. You know. There are a couple of
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projects where I look back on it and I realized I was holding onto my
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job so hard that I lost grip of the of the film, you know.
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And you know, there's one movie I look back on and I think,
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oh, I should have walked. Not for me, but maybe maybe
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if I had walked the director this is an original too, Like I would
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never walk off an original, but maybe if I had walked. I mean,
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the director is always going to win, right, Maybe if I had
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walked, they would have found something that wasn't what I wanted it to be,
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but was better than what it ended up being, which was sort of
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a mishmash, you know, of try a mishmash between that director's idea of
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what it should be in mine, you know, and something like that happens.
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How blamed are you as a writer to the good and bad of the
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good and bad of the sort of director worship? Is that not so much?
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I mean, it was a good spec, it was a good it
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was a good original script, and it wouldn't have gone into production if it
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hadn't been. And but it's just one of those things. If you guys
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you don't share a vision, sometimes it won't come out the way you want
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it to. And a lot of times I've noticed is that ego when the
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ego isn't that I love that term. By the way, that their egos
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the third first thing in the room. It's because of either fear or insecurity.
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And once they feel that, like, oh, this person is not
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going to hurt me, that we're on the same page, it does kind
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of recess a little bit. Yeah. I had the really wonderful good fortune
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of working with Curtis Hampson. He was just most wonderful man and wonderful film
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and he had a I think I learned a lot from him because he would
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point out something in the script didn't quite work, quite makes sense, and
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I would say, yeah it does, Yeah it does. I'd fight and
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hold on and then he'd say, always lean in really kindly and say no,
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no, no, Susannah, this is a good thing. This means
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we get to go find a better thing together. It's great. And he
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would see every problem and he would always say, no, no, no,
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this is a good thing. And you make a whole movie with someone
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who thinks that way, and it starts to inform your own thinking and you
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start to see problems as good things. And and I think that does feel
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less threatening sometimes to partners if if you walk in saying, I know that
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things can always get better. Let's keep making it better till we run out
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of time, you know. And that's that's kind of the TV mentality as
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well as a TV writer, because that's right, Yeah, not as much
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the screen, not as much the features writers. From my experience and from
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what I have who I've talked to, it's not as much it should be,
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but as well as much sometimes. I mean, feature writers are so
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rarely given the opportunity to have that too in their work, so and often
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have the experience of it not getting better or not getting closer to what they
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had wanted it to be at the outset, but further from it. So
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you know, working with Curtis was it was a blessing because that's not the
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norm, I think, And he was incredibly lovely and generous. He was
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wonderful. He's a wonderful, wonderful filmmaker. Now, you know, you
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did write a little film called Aaron brock something or other the other a little
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while ago. And how did that project Aaron Brockovich come to to life?
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Because you are credited the only writer on that, So I'm assuming this is
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an original or were you high it wasn't original? Yeah, it was,
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but it was I had I had just written ever After and it was very
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at which I love. And I'm not the only writer on that. The
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director came in and he did some rewriting with his partner, so they're pre
19:06
credited writers on that. But but I had just done that and it was
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I love it. But it was very sort of precious and delicately. I
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mean, it's she's meaty too, which is good. But I just wanted
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to I just had in my head that the next thing I wanted to write
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was I had this phrase kick ass broad in my head and I don't know
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why. I was like, I don't know, I just sa kick ass
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broad and I went to have a general meeting at Jersey Pictures and Gail Lyon
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was there and told me this story. And they had met Aaron through a
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chiropractor, because you know, that car accident that starts the movie actually walked
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Aaron's back out and she then would go to a chiropractor. Well, Michael
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Schamberg, who was like the president or something of Jersey at the time,
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his wife went to the same chiropractor. So that's how they heard Aaron's Of
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course, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now
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back to the show. Although they had optioned it, and I was,
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you know, I don't know that. I mean, maybe Pocahontas had come
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out, but it certainly there was nothing that would suggest that I was the
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right person for the film except for that I knew that I was. And
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and they, I think they said at the time, we'll actually we're out.
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We're out to Cali Cory, all right, all right. So in
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two weeks I called up and said, Hey, just wondering if you'd heard
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from Callie, and they'd say, yes, yes, now we're out to
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Scott Frank And I'd sit for two weeks and then I'd call back, and
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it was I think my polite persistence wore them down. I just kept calling
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and saying, did that other superstar writer pass yet? And eventually enough of
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them passed, and I had checked in often enough that they said, all
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right, well, we'll let you meet her. And then Aaron and I
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got on like a house on fire, so so and it just and just
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took off from there. Um, there's and there's the dialogue in that movie
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is so beautiful. I love I still remember that scene of like numbers.
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I'll tell you some numbers that whole I was just sitting there in awe because
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I was like, that's such a wonderful come back to a guy obviously hitting
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on her and this it was so so beautiful and Julia Roberts was their performances
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and the scene and just wonderful, and you know, but everybody directed it
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perfectly, And you know that's one of those. Yeah. I had two
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films in production at the same time, and one of them I was on
21:48
the set many of the days, um, and the other one, and
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I was also pregnant, so I wasn't there that much, honestly, And
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and and then Aaron Brockett was shooting at the same time, and I was
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never on that set, and Aaron Brockovich looks exactly like the movie I had
22:07
in my head, and the one where I was on the set every day
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looks nothing like the movie that I had in my head. So, you
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know, does being on the set make a difference? I don't know.
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You know, I don't know that scan sometimes but if it's not the right
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team, So why do you get they got? It was Stephen got what
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you were doing and that you guys were both mind melded. Apparently that got
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that vision. He saw what I saw, And I don't know how much
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of it was suggested on the page and how much of it just was the
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luck of um, you know, two people who who happened to see something
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the same way, though they didn't really talk about it that much, you
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know. So what was it like working with Stephen Because that was a heck
22:56
of a year for him, if I remember correctly, He also Traffic Try
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So did that other little movie called Traffic the same year. It was like,
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well, it's unheard of what he was, what was going on in
23:06
his career at the time, and he's a legendary filmmaker and he's he's a
23:08
fantastical film how I didn't work that closely with him, so really it was
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just not at all. Really that's fascinating. I mean you met with him
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obviously a bit. Yeah, right, I did. Yeah, you met
23:22
with him, but he just read the script. It is like, I'm
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good, let's go. Yeah. Basically, I mean nothing, nothing's that
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simple, but yeah, fair enough, fair enough. Um. So then
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the Oscars come around and you get a nomination. I did, And what
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is what's that like at that point in your career You're only like, what
23:45
five six years in at this point? I don't know was I don't know,
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I guess I guess it was interesting. At the at the premiere,
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UM, I saw Amy Pascal, who was always has always been extraordinarily lovely
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and right, and you know, we've had a nice um, done a
24:03
lot of nice work together. But I saw her. This was early on
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and I knew her. And after the premiere I was filing out of it,
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and she pulled me over and she said, this never happens, and
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I thought, well, maybe it does, and maybe it will again,
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Like she was just smelling me, this is remarkable. Appreciate it um,
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uh, you know it's it's it's it's wonderful, it's it's great and strange
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and and and you think this is, you know, something I've dreamed about
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and then also doesn't matter at all, you know. Yeah, Um,
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were you that clear Were you that clear headed at that time in your life?
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Because I know as we as we all get older, we look back
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and like, ah, you know, but when you're younger coming up like
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the Oscar, the Oscar, the Oscar, you know, yeah, it's
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probably about my family of origin, but those were not our values like growing
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up, they just they just weren't not better, not worse, they were
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just other. So, um, I did you know? I brought my
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brother and sister to it, and I thought they thought it was a kick,
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you know, So it's fun. It was a kid, it was.
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So it isn't like I don't want to denigrate the Academy at all.
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It's it's a lovely thing they do, and it's it's nice and it's also
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incredibly surreal. We were sitting at the ceremony, my husband and I and
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um, and he said, boy, if you dropped down from outer space
25:37
into this theater, you would think that this is our god, what an
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amazing what an amazing observation. It's a bit of that, but it's lovely,
25:51
and the academy is great, and the you know, to have the
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fellowship of you know, all these remarkable people who've told the stories that ordered
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your brain growing up and into adulthood is just an incredible luxury. To be
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part of that community and to be fair and to be fair to your husband.
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He's not wrong at all. He's not wrong at all. And in
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Hollywood, that is other than the dollar. The Oscar is a quite close
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second. If I'm not gonna stake. So you go through the ceremony,
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you go through all of this, you know, all the hooplah then because
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I've had many Oscar winners and Oscar nominees on the show before, and I
26:34
love asking what happened after? How did the town treat you afterwards? When
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you got you know, all this because the spotlights on you and it's there's
26:44
a window, there's a window of time where you're the it girl, the
26:48
it guy. What was that light? What was that kind of journey for
26:52
you? Honestly, it just uh um, I'm a bit of a hustler
27:00
and I don't ever like, honestly, any I don't like thinking about awards.
27:10
I don't have any. I mean, I'm I'm thrilled to have received
27:15
some awards in my time, but I don't have any of them any place
27:18
I can see them because I just don't. I don't know that that would
27:22
do anything good for my head. So what I am aware of is at
27:25
it up your price, like, it's great. Your agent asked for more
27:29
money, and I think writers should get more money always, So if you
27:33
can do that, if you can bump up your price, great, I
27:37
didn't just keep rocking and rolling because you know, I'm I'm being more diminishing
27:44
of it. I guess what I mean is it probably did stuff, but
27:47
I'm so afraid of resting on laurels. And it never ever ever makes the
27:53
writing easier. In fact, I think it might make it harder if you
27:56
can attention to it. So, um, you know, it doesn't make
28:00
any difference if you were out, you know, at the Vanity Fair party
28:04
till to the night before you're gonna sit down in a computer and it's not
28:07
going to be one iota easier, not one iota. So in terms of
28:15
my work, no difference. Yeah, it almost see the work itself.
28:22
It almost seems because again speaking to so many who have done gone through what
28:27
you've gone through, it seems almost like a burden in a certain way,
28:33
because now so it wasn't a burden, you know, yeah it was exactly,
28:38
but but the the um, the the the burden of like if you
28:45
get it, if it gets in your head of life, oh my god,
28:48
what's next? All I have to do this or I have to do
28:51
that, it does kind of tweak with you a little bit. But one
28:53
thing I've really fascinated by talking to so many, you know, accomplished screenwriters
28:59
like yourself and filmmakers, they're still in a roses in their work. They
29:04
still don't think in many ways that they're like, it's still tough. I
29:07
still don't think I'm good enough. I still think someone's going to walk into
29:11
the room at any second and go, what are you doing here? You're
29:14
not supposed to be in here? Security, get her out? Is that
29:17
kind of the vibe do you still feel in many ways? Well, the
29:19
second part not anymore, you know, the second part. I mean,
29:22
I've been doing this a long time, and I've got friends and we all
29:26
we all security is not taking you out, No, but absolutely it's still
29:30
challenging and you're still facing a wall every day. But that's u A the
29:38
fun of it. It doesn't feel like fun, but eight is what makes
29:44
it interesting. And B I don't think the work is for me is much
29:48
good without that. I think if it's sort of like what I was saying
29:52
earlier about what I discovered about writing scenes in Party of five, if I
29:56
feel like I can do something and yeah, I'll just whip this one off.
30:00
It's not going to be good. We'll be right back after a word
30:04
from our sponsor and now back to the show, it won't. And I
30:12
always have to feel as if there's something I'm trying to figure out, and
30:21
I like a little bit of panic associated with my with my work. Very
30:27
early on I knew herb Sergeant, who's Alvin Sargeant's brother, and I was
30:37
talking to him very very early on in my career and he said, oh,
30:41
yeah, every time Alvin takes a job, he calls me up and
30:44
says, I can't do it. I got to give the money back.
30:47
Now, I think Alvin Sargeant has written some of the most beautiful movies I've
30:52
ever seen, and he was a lovely man, and I thought, okay,
30:56
Alvin's sargeant. It's tying himself in knots and saying he has to give
31:00
the money back. Maybe that is not a glitch in the system, in
31:04
my system. Maybe that doesn't mean I don't belong here. If Alvin Sargent
31:08
has proceeded with that and done the work he's done, maybe it is in
31:14
fact an integral part of good work. So that was an early gift you
31:19
when you're writing, do you have the experience of sometimes being in that flow
31:25
where when you're done writing, you look at it and go, I don't
31:27
know who just wrote that, but that's fantastic. I don't look at my
31:32
work right when I write it that carefully. What I tend to do is
31:36
look at it the next morning, look at the prior day's work, and
31:40
usually I go over the prior a few days work before I start writing.
31:45
And it is kind of exciting when you look at something and you don't really
31:48
recognize it. It's pretty great. It does, and it's kind of like
31:52
what we all strive for is to have that that flow moment that you just
31:56
said, are there, and it just kind of goes do you, what
32:00
is your schedule like when you write? Do you actually have a time,
32:02
do you like, you know, like Eric Roth has, like this time
32:06
and understand I do. I've got a pretty set day, you know,
32:08
I've spent It's I'm actually just getting back into it now because I'm finishing post
32:15
on a movie I directed, But it is. I have a ridiculously early
32:19
wake up, but actually many writers I know have this week. I get
32:22
up at four thirty and make a cup of coffee. I work for well,
32:25
it used to be when when my kids were at home, I would
32:29
work for three hours, and then that was long enough to get into some
32:34
sort of roof so that I could, you know, go do the breakfast
32:38
thing, get folks off to school, okay, and come back and still
32:43
feel as if I was invested in work. Anything less than that, it
32:45
would be hard to get back into it. So I needed about three hours
32:50
to feel like, oh, I got to get back to work, you
32:52
know, And then I usually write till about midday ish, you know,
33:00
twelve one something like that, and then m and then you know, business
33:06
stuff emails fucking round. What happens in the afternoon, fair enough? So
33:13
let me let me ask you a very simple question, what what is it
33:17
about writing that you love? What keeps you? Because this is you know,
33:22
it's tough. Very early on in life, like as a kid,
33:27
I got this idea that this whole life thing was a massive rip off,
33:30
that you only got to live one of them, like there's there are infinite
33:36
numbers of This was before the notion of multi versus entered our consciousness. And
33:40
who knows, maybe that changes everything, but but I thought, it's just
33:45
a rip off. I only get to be me, and I don't get
33:47
to be that cowboy, and I don't get to be that, you know,
33:52
that sanitation worker, and I don't get to be that Like how is
33:58
that seems so unfair? Air? It just seemed like someone had presented a
34:02
massive boot, massive buffet and said you can have one shrimp and that's it,
34:07
you know, and so um, just imagining other existences started really really
34:15
early. And for a while I thought, uh, for a little while,
34:19
I thought I might be and I might go at it via acting um
34:24
and I did that for a little bit after school, but it just disposition
34:29
only the life didn't work for me, and and and I got I got
34:36
bored doing it, you know, I do a show two nights in a
34:37
row, and by the third night, I think I just did this,
34:40
Why am I doing it? So you're look really, I didn't have the
34:45
right mentality of you're looking abroad every night. Life on Broadways not for you.
34:52
It's basically no like anything more than a two night run. And I
34:54
was out very short career. Yeah, but then I was I was,
35:00
you know, fairly lost in life and didn't know what I was going to
35:02
do. Because I didn't I also thought I might be a journalist, which
35:06
is also another way to sort of gather up experience, and then that didn't
35:12
seem like the thing either, and then I just like, I moved to
35:16
San Francisco, which is what you do when you have no idea what you're
35:19
doing, because no one else there knew what they were doing either, and
35:25
I was really lonely. So I tried writing a script and I thought,
35:30
oh, oh this I could do. This, I could do for a
35:32
long time, like just keep creating a world over and over of my imagination.
35:39
Yeah, that's beautiful, that's really beautiful. It seems like you had
35:44
a thirst for life and this is the way you kind of suck the bone
35:49
marrow, the marrow out of the boat of life in many ways. Yeah,
35:52
yeah, I mean, I do think it's important to say they were
35:55
fairly torturous years finding that, you know. And I talk to a lot
36:00
of young people who sort of, you know, just just are hungry,
36:07
understandably hungry to figure out how to get to a place. And you really
36:15
have to go through some gnarly stuff to find out who you really want to
36:19
be. And and maybe they always want to say, listen to yourself,
36:23
maybe this will be what you want to be, but maybe something else will
36:25
come out of the blue, and be open to it. Keep your ears
36:30
open, because if I had just had like my nose to the grindstone with
36:32
acting, would have a very unhappy life, you know. So so you
36:39
know, the uncertainty and the fear and the panic and sleepless nights and all
36:45
that, I think they're important to pay attention to, and they can lead
36:49
you someplace good, you know, if you listen, If you listen,
36:53
that's the very key point there. Now you got a chance to to direct
36:59
the film, your first film, which is Catch and Release, which I
37:01
loved, by the way I saw that it's a fun, little wonderful little
37:07
wonderful little film. What was your biggest lesson directing, because I know you
37:12
directed a bit on television, but it's a bit different. Yeah, it's
37:15
a bit different. Well, really, it's my lesson from that film was
37:19
less about directing, although there are a bunch of those, and more about
37:29
being clear on the movie you're making. And Amy Pascal, that was a
37:32
Sony movie, and she and I have talked about it since then, But
37:36
that movie should have been a five million dollars soun dance movie. But she
37:40
gave me I think it was thirty million dollars to make the movie, and
37:46
and I kept thinking, I don't feel like a thirty million dollars movie.
37:50
But she's right in the check, so I'm not going to argue. And
37:55
then as we got close to shooting, it became clear, and I guess
38:00
we just hadn't spoken to each other clearly enough beforehand that she had expectations of
38:05
a kind of romantic comedy that I didn't think we're inherent in the script,
38:09
And so all during production we were trying to sort of pull it into something
38:15
that would hold on to what I loved and deliver on what she felt she
38:21
had bought and like I said, she and I have talked about it plenty
38:24
since then, and it has a lot of lovely little moments in it,
38:28
but I think we spent too much money on it, you know, And
38:30
so it has an ending that is sort of a classic romantic comedy ending,
38:37
which wasn't where we started, just trying to deliver on a sort of studio
38:43
product that it probably shouldn't have tried to be. So that's that's the lesson
38:49
there is, just be really clear upfront with what movie you're making with the
38:52
people who are giving you the money, because because eventually they're gonna want what
38:59
they bought exactly. And mean you driving to the set every day like rewriting
39:06
the ending way too much. But I had some great, great partners on
39:13
that I had. I was working with the cinematographer named John Linley, whom
39:16
I've worked with many times since then, and he made a bunch of movies
39:22
and every now and then I would just sidle over and say so and just
39:28
ask him a question. He always had a great answer. So when you're
39:31
reading the script when you're shooting a film, do you how can you tell
39:35
which scenes are not going to make it? In the final cut, and
39:37
he said to me, well, if it says flashback, And so since
39:44
then I've thought I put a very high bar on any flashback I used because
39:49
somebody who had made twenty movies before me, he said, he shot a
39:52
bunch of flashbacks that didn't make it in cuts. Why is that, you
39:54
know, just a lot of wisdom like that. We'll be right back after
40:00
a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. Night shoots,
40:10
Yeah, night shoots, rainy night shoots. Try to get those out
40:14
of the script reproduction. Funny you should say that I have pictures of us
40:19
at night in just looking like drowned rats because we were in Vancouver. We'res
40:22
a ring constantly. But I really love all the performances in that. Oh.
40:29
I don't think everyone does a beautiful job. And I think I learned
40:35
also that I don't think um, I don't think I had fun doing it
40:38
for about the first half of the shoot. I think I was so intent
40:43
on being ready and prepared and professional and you know, successful at the job
40:51
that I that I forgot to have fun for a bit. And actually having
40:54
fun for me is a really important part of that job. It makes you
41:00
relaxed. It makes other people relaxed. It is a fun job. It's
41:05
an incredibly fun job, so it should be fun um and and you know,
41:13
relaxing. There's always a feeling I have at the beginning of any scene
41:17
of oh God, I hope it works, you know, before your shoot
41:22
the first yeah out of it, and and the play when it doesn't quite
41:29
and the play of finding finding that again that unexpected thing within it, and
41:37
it is really enjoyable, really enjoyable, really fun. So as directors,
41:40
you know, there's always that one day on set that you feel the entire
41:44
world's going to crash it down around you. Now, that should be every
41:46
day if you're doing your job right, but there's that one day that you
41:50
just like, I don't know if we're going to make it today. I
41:52
don't know if I'm gonna make my day. I don't know if I'm gonna
41:53
get this shot. You know, what was that day for you? And
41:57
how did you overcome it? On catching Lease? Yeah, you know.
42:01
I I'm going to preface this by saying that one of my I've heard it's
42:07
very good in terms of longevity, but one of my qualities is that I
42:10
do not remember bad stuff that well, oh oh god, no, I
42:16
can remember. There was this scene we were shooting that was supposed to be
42:22
the last scene, and you know, like I said, I just kept
42:24
trying to deliver an ending that would fit with the movie, and and we
42:30
ended up reshooting it because I knew it wasn't that good, and the actors
42:36
knew it wasn't that good. It wasn't what it should be, and none
42:38
of us were saying it out loud. We were just trying to deliver on
42:43
it and it was this like this big it just it was. It was.
42:47
It's that when you're the only thing that's uncomfortable is when you're doing something
42:52
you're trying to tell yourself it's working and it doesn't. So I stopped stopped
42:55
doing that. Then, yeah, that was that was a bad day,
43:00
did you But we got it? So yeah, when you go through When
43:05
you're going through that, though, it does take a certain level of confidence
43:07
within yourself in the skill set. You have to either say stop, this
43:12
is not working, we need to just stop it from here. But this
43:15
was your first big this is my first thing. I didn't know to do
43:16
that. I should I would do that beat now, absolutely, absolutely like
43:22
we're wasting film or wasting time. Let's just stop and figure out if this
43:25
is worth our while. Yeah, and on the set with an amazing casset
43:30
you have or where anytime you've directed, have you had to deal with opposing
43:37
opinions of what the story should be and having to fight, whether it be
43:42
crew members, whether it be studios, whether it be actors. How do
43:45
you overcome that as a director? Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't.
43:51
Right, you win, some of you other something and you know, look,
43:54
you have to accept that it's a collaborative, artful right, and you're
44:00
hiring people not just for their face and body, but for their inner life.
44:06
And and like I said with the when I was those two films before,
44:12
you never really know until you get into the sandbox with someone, if
44:15
they if you have the same idea of what you're building, you know,
44:19
um so, And sometimes it turns into something else that is different than what
44:24
you had in mind, but is but is really remarkable too. You know,
44:29
there was one performance and I won't name it, but the first couple
44:34
of days I was thinking, um, this is this feels really different than
44:39
what I had in mind. But she seems really committed to it. It
44:44
ended up being a fantastic performance. She won awards for it. It was
44:49
it was so you know, you have to leave yourself open to the idea
44:53
that your partner has a great idea, and it might be it might challenge
44:58
your idea and sometimes sometimes it makes it better, and you just have to
45:04
be alert to when it's not doing that. You know. Yes, I
45:07
think one of the themes of this conversation is listen to yourself, Listen to
45:12
the gut, Listen to you instincts for both both those sides, whether it's
45:15
something like I think this is going to go awry and crash into a wall,
45:21
or I feel there's something here. I don't know what it is.
45:23
Let me just step back a little bit and let's see what happens. Yeah,
45:27
yeah, yeah, I mean it's all you have, right, Everything
45:32
came from your gut. It's just and I I think that the conscious mind,
45:42
when it comes to creativity, is probably the least important element. You
45:46
know, I try to write. The reason I write when I write at
45:51
that hour is that I think I'm still kind of asleep. You know,
45:53
there's part of your sleeping brain that's still engaged, and I get my coffee
46:00
all set the night before, so I don't have to do much. I
46:01
can go pretty quickly from sleep to work because I think you're unconscious and you're
46:07
subconscious, are more alive at that time after before you've you know, made
46:13
lists and phone calls and cooked eggs and whatever else you're doing. This boring.
46:17
That's a very interesting thing though, because you're right, you're kind of
46:21
like in that in between sleep and awake stage. Your brain hasn't really turned
46:25
on yet, so it's not the noise of the crap that we have to
46:30
deal with. The voices in our head and all that stuff is a little
46:32
bit quieter, so you can kind of just tap into whatever that ether is
46:37
to get the ideas in the in the flow. Correct. Yeah, And
46:42
you also can convince yourself at four thirty in the morning that you're the only
46:45
person awake on the planet. You know, it feels like it's just you
46:51
and the moon, and you know, great, fantastic now. You also
46:57
you also you also worked on a little film called Charlie Its Web, which
47:00
is such a beautiful film. I mean, it's such a beautiful story.
47:05
How did you approach adapting literally one of the biggest classic children's classic books.
47:14
Ever, how do you approach that? Well, it's interesting because in the
47:16
beginning I spent a lot of time in Maine on the actual lake or eb
47:22
White wrote, so I'm very reverential of his work, and that work in
47:30
particular, and I thought, okay, straight up, faithful, loyal.
47:37
And I got about halfway through the script and I read it and it was
47:40
just dead. It was just flat and dead and lifeless. And I thought,
47:46
Okay, that's not gonna work. So I infused it with just with
47:54
just more life, and I thought, the book will exist as long as
47:59
human exists. This book will never go out to print. Everyone will read
48:02
it, love it. This has to different medium, it has to have
48:07
different um dimension to it. So I did that, and then I remember
48:14
what happened. It could have been that I went off to make catch and
48:17
release. At some point I ended up having to leave and carry. Kirkpatrick
48:22
came in, who's a wonderful writer and a very funny writer, and he
48:30
sort of, um, he brought a whole other, you know, element
48:37
to it as well. So um, so that's that's the thing. You
48:40
just can't feel like you are just typing the book I think it won't have
48:49
the life it needs. It's the same thing when you're writing a story about
48:52
a real person, you know you have to I the first time I did
48:57
it was with Aaron Brockovich, and I knew her and I really liked her
49:04
and really admired her, and I would start writing and I would think,
49:07
well, I'm not I'm not sure what she would do here. Maybe I
49:09
should ask Aaron. I'm not sure what she should do. And then I
49:13
thought, God, I feel like i'm writing with handcuffs on. So I
49:16
decided in my head there are two errands. There's the Aaron whom I really
49:22
enjoy and admire, and then there's the Aaron I'm writing, and they're totally
49:30
different. And I'm just going to trust that I know her well enough,
49:35
and I am not. I'm interested in just representing her truthfully. But that's
49:42
but it's but this one's mine, and I ended up with a much more
49:47
faithful representation of her than I would have had I not given myself that license.
49:54
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back
50:01
to the show. Yeah, and that's that is a mistake. I think
50:06
a lot of people who adapt do is the whether the real life person or
50:09
a real life story or a book, because I mean, I remember watching
50:14
The Godfather. Behind the scenes, I'm watching what Francis did with the book
50:17
and he just I mean, what he pulled out, what he wanted.
50:22
Yeah, yeah, he was he was constructing a blueprint and it was wonderful
50:27
to see his process. It was amazing. Yeah, but you really have
50:30
to be master and commander when you're writing something. You have to be it
50:32
has to be your world. You're in charge, nobody over you, it's
50:37
your And obviously then it goes into production and then you're making a film and
50:42
then other voices. But when you are writing that script, you have to
50:45
feel it's you're in charge and you're the ultimate authority on it. Now,
50:52
if you had a chance to go back and talk to that young film student
50:57
free pocahonas, what advice would you give her? Well, none, because
51:01
it worked out really well. So obviously if I had known more than maybe
51:06
I wouldn't have. Um, I don't know, you know, I used
51:08
to worry. I used to worry a lot about I mean, I would
51:14
you know, I would turn into script on Friday and I would be apoplectic
51:17
until Monday, and so I think, Um, I don't. I don't
51:24
do that anymore. Obviously, I want people to like my work always,
51:30
but I don't turn myself into you know, knots over it. Um And
51:36
I may trying to tell myself he's up a little, but I don't know.
51:39
Maybe that level of anxiety is what pushed me to make my work better
51:45
than it would have been otherwise. So I yeah, I wouldn't. I
51:50
wouldn't say anything different. I mean, you can't. I have no quibble
51:55
with how my life is going these days. And if every miserable step along
52:01
the way is what I needed to get here, I've take them. All.
52:06
You know, is it isn't that a great life lesson because a lot
52:07
of people want to avoid all the bad stuff. I'm but the bad stuff
52:09
will makes you grow. If the bad stuff is what makes you, gets
52:13
you to that place and also gives you character to be a better writer.
52:16
Yeah, and then when that's what you share, that's what people respond to.
52:21
You know. The whole point of these stories is for people to feel
52:24
seen, you know, people, for people just to make the world a
52:30
little less lonely. You know, people watch something and say, oh,
52:34
yeah, I feel that too. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels
52:37
that. Maybe I'm not the only one going to And you're not going to
52:40
You're not going to do that without living hard into the different difficulties of life,
52:45
you know, m the whole question. I'm gonna ask you a few
52:49
questions, ask all of my guests. What advice would you give a filmmaker
52:53
or screenwriter starting in the business today. I struggle with this one a bit
53:01
because the on ramps are different now than they were when I was starting.
53:06
You can make your own films so cheaply now, and so I would.
53:09
I would tell people to do that as much as possible, But the quality
53:15
of your work remains the same. Art on yourself. I don't mean punishing
53:22
of yourself on a personal level, but be demanding of your work. Set
53:25
your bar high. I do this thing at the end of every script,
53:30
when I think it's ready. I read it as if I were an actor
53:35
and I had a lot of options, and and I try to figure out,
53:42
if I have a lot of options, am I going to do this
53:45
one before all those other great options? And that is a That's a way
53:50
I hold my work to what I think is a higher standard. So I
53:58
would find those ways you can, and you can push yourself to make your
54:01
work as good as it can be, because nothing's worse than putting work out
54:05
there that isn't ready, that you could have made better, and then you're
54:08
just disappointed in yourself and you're not getting yourself where you want to be.
54:14
Do your best work. Do your best work. I mean rough and very
54:19
school marmie, But that's what my advice is. Now, what is the
54:24
lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or
54:28
in life. Oh golly, oh golly, I wish I'd paid attention to
54:32
these before we spoke. Um, I'm gonna have to come back to that
54:40
one. Well, hold, we'll hold it, We'll hold it, hold
54:43
it all right? Um? What is what did you learn from your biggest
54:47
failure That I can survive failure. That's a good lesson to learn. There
54:53
are worse things than failure. Honestly, it can be rough if you are
54:59
achieved and oriented and failure reverse. It can be painful, but that failure
55:05
is not death. Failure is often something you can learn a lot from.
55:08
It is the process is part of the process. You have to film it,
55:12
and if you win all the time, you learn nothing, and they're
55:15
great, there are there is gold in failure. It's painful, and it's
55:19
the other thing is that our work is public, so so failure is public,
55:22
and so you feel embarrassed and you know whatever, But there is real
55:28
gold in failure looking at something and say okay, well, then next time
55:32
I won't do that. And what are three screenplays that every screenwriter should read?
55:40
Okay? Well, first of all, every screenwriting logistical problem is solved
55:46
somewhere within the script of Tutsi. So yes, it's just what learn Tutsi.
55:54
When you hit a wall, think what did they do in Tutsi?
55:57
And you'll find some way that one of those I think it was six writers
56:01
figured out a logistical challenge. So Tutsie is a good one witness because it's
56:07
spectacular and it shows you how little dialogue you actually need um to make a
56:15
moment moment meaningful. Um gosh, it's hard. It's hard not to say
56:23
Godfather Part two? Right, got one and two? You could put them
56:28
put together? That's yes, and put one and two are considered the same
56:32
for me. Yeah, I mean you can't wal, I mean that's I
56:36
mean all, But then there are there are ones that I just adore.
56:39
You know, all the President's Men. Every scene forces you into the next
56:44
scene. There's no point you can't drop into All the President's Men and not
56:49
stay till the end. It is the most propulsive movie. And to look
56:52
at that and think how did they do that? Fantastic. And then there's
56:57
I'm good, I'm giving you more than three Please go for Running on Empty
57:00
by Naomi Phoner. Yeah, just the most beautiful movie. And it's a
57:07
great opening. You meet River Phoenix and he's playing little league baseball. And
57:12
this is a guy who is not attached to anything because his family for those
57:15
people, his family is on the run, and he can't really play baseball
57:22
because he's never been part of it, but he's playing anyway. And someone
57:25
says to him. I'm not going to quote it accurately, but one of
57:29
the first lines he says. Someone says to him, why do you even
57:31
play? And he says, baseball is my life. And it's the most
57:37
wonderful first line for a character because in that moment with this guy who has
57:40
not been allowed to put down roots anywhere, in that moment, baseball is
57:46
his life, and it's it's it's shallow and he's It's such a great first
57:52
character introduction. So that's another one too. I could go on all day,
57:57
but well I'm in Chinatown. Network Shaw Shank, I mean, you
58:00
can just keep going. Network is the movie that got me into movies.
58:04
I should have said that one? Is that? How about Nashville Altman?
58:08
I mean, I mean the play. I love the player. I just
58:10
love watching the player. They don't do those pitches. They don't, of
58:15
course, they don't do those pitch sessions anymore like they do than the player.
58:19
Do they I think they do, but they don't buy pitches as much
58:22
as they used to. No, they don't. They don't. Well,
58:25
it depends on who you are. I mean think they probably not like that
58:29
anymore. Yeah, those those and let me ask you the days of like
58:32
the nineties of Shane Black days and the Joe Esterhouse days where they were just
58:37
dropping two mil, three mil, four mil, five mil on on spec
58:40
scripts, those days are pretty much they are gone. I think spec script
58:46
can still do really well still. Yeah, there's still there's a million,
58:50
two million, but they're rarer. Before it was just like water. Yeah,
58:53
I feel like I had this theory in the first couple decades of doing
59:01
this that there was it was what I called the pile of stupid money,
59:07
and it moved. And when I first started, the pile of stupid money
59:12
was all in specs, in film specs, right, and it was just
59:15
like I don't know where the money was coming from, but it was massive
59:19
amounts for And then the pile of stupid money moved into TV overall deals and
59:23
they was just the crazy overall I mean, I'm sure that for a while
59:28
there that it was some yeah, actress had actors, actors, actors had
59:32
network deals like overall looked deals. I don't know. I think I think
59:36
those piles of stupid money might be disappearing in the corporate conglomeration of our business.
59:42
I mean I looked a little harder at their spreadsheets than I was when
59:47
I had. I had somebody who worked who was the president of Richard Donner's
59:51
company back in the eighties. Can you imagine we'll be right back after a
59:57
word from our sponsor and now back to the show, And he's like,
1:00:05
I was there ten years, and I go, what was it like working
1:00:07
with Dick on some of these projects, and he's like, this is how
1:00:10
it would go. He would read the script he got Lethal Weapon, he
1:00:15
read it, he said, I want to make this movie. He'd call
1:00:19
up the president of Warners. He goes, I got a script, I
1:00:22
want to make it, and the president of Warners goes poll and no discussion
1:00:27
of money. Whatever Dick wanted Dick got. It's like and never like,
1:00:30
oh, you only can make it for thirty and but he was very responsible.
1:00:35
He was a hit maker. Yea, and he and he had delivered
1:00:37
consistently, right, and he's Richard Donner for got six So that was and
1:00:42
I'm like, legals, Yeah, that's when filmmakers run ran the studios.
1:00:45
Yeah, yeah, they don't mountain as much. You read the Mike Nichols
1:00:50
Oh My biography, and every time they got to the discussion of the catering
1:00:57
table. It's a very detailed and beautiful biography. But I would think,
1:01:01
man, you could not, like, I can't imagine getting that catering budgetness.
1:01:07
Was it that extravagant? Oh? He had the most spectacular catering really,
1:01:15
lobster and sushi every day? Yeah, absolutely nothing but the best um
1:01:22
and and last question three of your favorite films. Oh well, I said
1:01:27
them. Um uh, Rocky right up there. I adore Rocky. And
1:01:32
there's a bad scene in Rocky. There isn't a bad scene in Ordinary People.
1:01:37
That movie is just perfect and brilliant. Um, I'm going for I'm
1:01:43
going for the unexpected ones like look, I love all that. I love
1:01:47
all the movies everyone loves. Um, but but My Little Secret Treasures,
1:01:53
I think, truly, madly, deeply is an incredible I love that film
1:01:59
of a film. Alan Rick, Oh God, bless his heart. Yeah
1:02:02
yeah he was, Yeah, he was a l Yeah yeah he was in
1:02:05
that movie, wasn't he. Yeah yeah, of course, yeah, yeah,
1:02:07
yeah, such a great film. Um, you know I mentioned Running
1:02:14
on Empty and Witness and um uh the way we were is it's just so
1:02:23
beautifully written. There's a screenplay. There's an unconventional screenplay the first time.
1:02:29
Yeah, I don't know how long it is. Maybe it's the first twenty
1:02:34
minutes or flashback incredible, great, maybe it's more. I mean, if
1:02:39
you want to talk about you know, and I'm gonna I'm gonna pat you
1:02:43
in the back here for a second. I mean the introduction to Aaron and
1:02:46
Aaron Brockovich it's it's I mean, I've had people who are teachers of screenwriting
1:02:52
who teach that scene as a beautiful, almost perfect in introduction to a character
1:03:00
because you learn so much about her in a short period of time. It
1:03:07
is condensed, it is wonderful, it is comedic, you feel for,
1:03:12
you connect with because if that scene doesn't work, get done. Yeah,
1:03:17
yeah, Julian Robberts, guess what that scenes? Well, there's the right
1:03:24
exactly. But you know there's also um I like when movies do are that's
1:03:34
thank you for saying that, But there's also In Silkwood, one of the
1:03:37
first things, you know, one of the hardest, one of the gnarly
1:03:40
things to do, is name all your characters, right, like everybody knows
1:03:44
who everyone is, you know, without saying hey Bill. And early on
1:03:49
in Silkwood, they pull up to the the um Kermagie entrance and they're all
1:03:57
car pooling, and they lean out the window and say their name so they
1:04:00
can get into work. It's fantastic. It's just you set it up.
1:04:05
It's done, it's perfect. Yes, yes, And then here's a really
1:04:13
good one. Okay, Dog Day Afternoon, Oh so good. Frank Pearson
1:04:18
came to A five when I was there and he showed that movie. He
1:04:24
talked about it, and he talked about the very beginning and you know,
1:04:27
he comes in and he takes the gun out of the flower box and it
1:04:30
gets all messed up, and it's very early on, and he was talking
1:04:34
about that scene and he said, the important thing to do was tell the
1:04:38
audience you can laugh in this movie. And I had to tell them right
1:04:42
up front. And it does that, it says because if you hadn't had
1:04:45
that, if you got well into what happens in that bank and then expected
1:04:50
people to laugh, they wouldn't have done it. So that's a good that's
1:04:54
a good little lesson there too. Yeah, because that's a slightly intense film.
1:04:59
Yeah. Yeah, but you feel free to laugh when you can because
1:05:02
he said right up front, go ahead. You know, Susanna, I
1:05:06
can keep talking to me for hours. I appreciate you coming on the show
1:05:10
so much. Thank you so much for being on the show, for the
1:05:12
amazing work you've done throughout your career and continuing to be an inspiration to so
1:05:15
many screenwriters out there. My dear, so thank you, thank you,
1:05:17
Alex. It's very nice to talk to you. You have a great day.
1:05:21
I want to thank Susanna so much for coming on the show and dropping
1:05:26
her knowledge bombs on all of us. Thank you so much, Susanna.
1:05:29
If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
1:05:30
head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv for its clash three
1:05:35
hundred and I want to take a small moment to thank everybody who's been listening
1:05:41
for these last three hundred episodes. It is a milestone and I really really
1:05:46
appreciate all the support. We plan to continue to bring you amazing conversations.
1:05:51
We actually have a few in the pipeline, so get ready for a few
1:05:56
more really really awesome conversations coming up soon. But I just want to say
1:06:01
humbly and wholeheartedly thank you so much for allowing me to continue to do this
1:06:08
kind of work and bring these amazing conversations to the screenwriting audience and filmmaking audience.
1:06:14
Thank you again so much, guys, as always, keep on writing
1:06:17
no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the
1:06:20
Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.