Latest / Simply Bitcoin / WORLDS LARGEST EXCHANGE SECRETLY Buying Bitcoin?! | EP 1304

Transcript

WORLDS LARGEST EXCHANGE SECRETLY Buying Bitcoin?! | EP 1304 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  What if we told you the world's largest exchange might be
• 0:03
  secretly buying billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin?
• 0:07
  Coinbase shocked the world on Monday when they announced they
• 0:10
  were going to be permanently buying Bitcoin every week.
• 0:13
  Of course, they've historically said that they they thought
• 0:16
  about this, but it it just wasn't working out for them.
• 0:19
  It wasn't a good idea back then. But now we have this
• 0:22
  announcement of a $2 billion capital raise happening
• 0:26
  literally days after they said they're going to continue to
• 0:29
  accumulate Bitcoin. So the real question is, what
• 0:32
  are they going to do with that money?
• 0:35
  Are they becoming a sailor copycat?
• 0:37
  That seems to be all the rage right now.
• 0:39
  And from our vantage point, from our speculation, it seems like
• 0:43
  this is what they're doing. Anyways, I'm here with the
• 0:46
  wonderful Internet Sophie, AKA the better half of Nico.
• 0:49
  And of course, we have Fernando here, formerly at Blockstream
• 0:53
  and the founder of Perception. And we're going to be chatting
• 0:56
  about the media landscape at the very end of this show.
• 0:59
  He came on about, I don't know, maybe it's a month or two ago,
• 1:02
  Fernando. And he just came on and threw
• 1:03
  that hot fire on the show. So I'm, I'm very excited to
• 1:07
  continue that conversation. But anyways, let's get to this
• 1:10
  Coinbase story. So you guys know us here, you
• 1:13
  know, we're not the biggest fans of Coinbase, but it is
• 1:16
  interesting to see Coinbase make this move right now.
• 1:19
  When we were kind of work shopping this idea this morning,
• 1:22
  we kind of had the tentative take of like, did Coinbase just
• 1:26
  switch from attacker to Bitcoin buyer?
• 1:29
  We've been saying for a long time, and I'm sure Fernando
• 1:31
  probably has similar views here as being a Bitcoiner for a long
• 1:34
  time. They seem to be one of the
• 1:35
  biggest attacks on Bitcoin. Famously, they were very big
• 1:40
  through the block size wars endorsing be cash and and you
• 1:44
  know, of course, they're also the biggest.
• 1:47
  Is it No, OK, I can't say yeah, altcoin casino out there, which
• 1:51
  is really kind of I would say distraction for the new people
• 1:55
  coming into space. So This is why we're so big on
• 1:58
  Bitcoin only platforms so that people don't get sideswiped.
• 2:01
  They don't get caught up in the in the casino out there and buy
• 2:04
  a bunch of hot garbage. Anyways, anyways, enough context
• 2:07
  here. So let's get to the story on
• 2:09
  Coin Telegraph and I'm, I'm going to break down essentially
• 2:13
  what their public release was, what the press release said they
• 2:16
  were going to do with this money.
• 2:17
  And then I'm going to kind of make the case that maybe this is
• 2:20
  just, you know, their, their public, you know, PR around what
• 2:25
  they're doing. And it seems like they are doing
• 2:28
  the Michael Saylor strategy strategy anyways.
• 2:31
  Coinbase plans to or Coinbase plans a $2 billion dual tranche
• 2:36
  note sale to fund buybacks and acquisitions.
• 2:39
  They plan to raise $2 billion an offering to fund future
• 2:43
  investments in stock buybacks. Of course, Coinbase would become
• 2:47
  the first company in the S&P 500 index to acquire Bitcoin from
• 2:51
  the proceeds of a private note offering further capital
• 2:55
  migration from traditional markets into digital assets.
• 2:59
  They are technically the third largest crypto exchange, the
• 3:03
  biggest in the US and they announced this $2 billion
• 3:06
  convertible senior note offering for quote qualified
• 3:09
  institutional buyers with $1 billion worth of the notes due
• 3:13
  2029 and 1 billion due in 2032. Quote, the notes will be senior
• 3:18
  unsecured obligations of Coinbase and will accrue
• 3:20
  interest payable semi annually in arrears.
• 3:23
  The interest rate and conversion terms will be determined upon
• 3:26
  final pricing. They also plan to grant initial
• 3:28
  note purchasers an additional $150 million principal amount of
• 3:32
  the 2023 notes and another 150 million of the 2032 notes.
• 3:36
  That's, you know, just just some, some finance legal jargon
• 3:39
  for people that are qualified to invest in this.
• 3:44
  But this is where it gets interesting.
• 3:45
  The company said it will use the net proceeds of the offering to
• 3:48
  cover the cost of the cap call transactions related to the note
• 3:51
  offering and for general corporate purposes, which may
• 3:54
  include quote, working capital, capital expenditures and
• 3:58
  investments in in acquisitions of other companies, products or
• 4:02
  technologies that Coinbase may identify from time to time.
• 4:06
  When you hear this, of course, it's kind of like legal jargon.
• 4:08
  It's kind of like APR word spin here, but it really reminded me
• 4:13
  of when Michael Saylor announced a micro strategy convertible
• 4:17
  note. His verbiage was very similar.
• 4:20
  He said something almost verbatim to what Coinbase just
• 4:23
  said, which really kind of gets my ears perked up.
• 4:27
  And it really kind of lends to the idea that this is, you know,
• 4:30
  as everyone's saying, paper Bitcoin summer.
• 4:32
  This is the year of corporate Bitcoin treasury hype.
• 4:36
  And it seems like Coinbase is following this.
• 4:39
  This is this would be my take here, especially when you
• 4:42
  consider some few things here. So I was looking for this tweet
• 4:46
  that Brian Armstrong did. This was in May.
• 4:48
  I couldn't find the exact tweet, but I got some help here from
• 4:51
  Grok. You know, shouts out to Grok AI
• 4:53
  over here. And I said, could you find the
• 4:54
  tweet of Brian Armstrong saying that they decided against file
• 4:58
  following the Michael Saylor strategy.
• 5:00
  And Grok goes, yes, I, I found the relative context.
• 5:04
  And this was on May 9th of this year, 2025.
• 5:07
  He did a live earnings call. He did AQ and a spaces and
• 5:11
  during the session he stated quote, there were definitely
• 5:14
  moments over the last 12 years where we thought, man, should we
• 5:17
  put 80% of our balance sheet into crypto, into Bitcoin
• 5:21
  specifically. And then they made the conscious
• 5:24
  choice against it because of risk, which is very interesting.
• 5:28
  They kind of are framing it, hey, we were start up.
• 5:30
  It's probably not the smartest thing for us to be doing.
• 5:33
  That's I, I again, you know, being a little more cynical and
• 5:37
  not the biggest fan of Coinbase. That's probably the, the
• 5:40
  optimistic view here. The other one is they were
• 5:43
  diversifying in shitcoins. They weren't the biggest fan of
• 5:46
  Bitcoin for the last 12 years, though.
• 5:48
  Their whole business is built on Bitcoin.
• 5:50
  They made most of their money on shitcoins.
• 5:52
  So this is where I'm starting my speculation.
• 5:55
  They thought about this for 12 years.
• 5:57
  And then of course, Michael Saylor comes in, strategy comes
• 6:00
  in. They're the most profitable,
• 6:03
  probably going to be from the biggest company in the world.
• 6:05
  They hold the most Bitcoin that sailors doing this convertible
• 6:09
  note offering like every other week.
• 6:11
  He's raising billions of dollars.
• 6:13
  He holds 600 something thousand plus coins currently.
• 6:16
  It's hard to even keep track of how much coin he's holding
• 6:19
  because he keeps buying more and more every week, even twice a
• 6:21
  week. Anyways, here is where the saga
• 6:24
  kind of starts. July 31st you have Ryan
• 6:27
  Armstrong tweeting Coinbase is long Bitcoin.
• 6:30
  You know a switch from attacker to Bitcoin accumulator.
• 6:33
  I I like the rebranding Brian. I really do and he goes our
• 6:37
  holdings increased by 2509 Bitcoin in Q2 and quote we keep
• 6:41
  buying more and you can see here as of Q2, they hold about 11,776
• 6:48
  thousand Bitcoin, but it's interesting shout out to Pierre
• 6:51
  Rochard. You know he does a just a maybe
• 6:53
  a subliminal here great work Brian.
• 6:55
  Have you considered issuing perpetual preferred to
• 6:58
  accelerate the Bitcoin accumulation?
• 6:59
  And again, this, this was on July 31st.
• 7:03
  And then just kind of going into their public treasury companies.
• 7:07
  This currently is Coinbase at #10 with 11,776.
• 7:12
  Now, of course, they said, hey, we're going to use some of this
• 7:15
  for our corporate funding. But if they are following
• 7:19
  Michael Saylor and they are taking this Bitcoin treasury
• 7:22
  strategy, corporate Bitcoin summer strategy seriously, with
• 7:27
  that $2 billion, they could very realistically jump into the top
• 7:31
  five. You know, I think I did the math
• 7:33
  earlier this morning just off off the, you know, napkin math,
• 7:37
  2 billion at $115,000 Bitcoin. That's around 17,000 plus coins.
• 7:43
  So that would very clearly jump them into the fifth spot.
• 7:47
  Now they've kind of, I would say arguably flew a little too close
• 7:51
  to the sun here. They should have been doing this
• 7:54
  for a long time. They kind of dropped the ball in
• 7:56
  my opinion, compared to what Michael Saylor has been doing
• 7:59
  with strategy. They probably should have been
• 8:01
  the number one position. They should have been the
• 8:03
  Michael Saylor of this. They swear they should have
• 8:06
  acquired all of the Bitcoin. Now, I do believe it might be a
• 8:10
  little too little too late, but they, I, I think what we're
• 8:13
  seeing is like the leaderboards, the people are competing to get
• 8:16
  on the leaderboards here. So again, publicly they're
• 8:20
  saying this is for corporate funding.
• 8:22
  Maybe we can take some of this money to acquire companies and
• 8:26
  invest in new technologies. Who knows what these new
• 8:28
  technologies. Maybe they're going to do a, you
• 8:30
  know, a shit coin corporate strategy.
• 8:32
  We, we've seen that's kind of in the rage recently.
• 8:35
  But if they're smart and from what Brian Armstrong has been
• 8:38
  saying, it seems like they're going to take a lot of this
• 8:41
  money and acquire more Bitcoin. And if they do that, they can
• 8:45
  very quickly jump up the Bitcoin treasury leaderboard here.
• 8:48
  And I think that would be a very interesting play.
• 8:51
  If they do do this, then it's going to be, you know, very
• 8:55
  competitive on those charts. I think it could be arguing,
• 8:59
  actually, Fernando, I think the last time you were on this show,
• 9:02
  we were talking about Coin Base rebranding themselves, you know,
• 9:05
  orange washing, orange washing themselves.
• 9:08
  And it's just fitting that you're on the show again.
• 9:10
  It looks like they might be doing this orange washing
• 9:14
  attempt one more time. It looks like they're going,
• 9:16
  hey, we're you know, we fully believe in Bitcoin.
• 9:19
  I've seen Bryan Armstrong tweet about, oh, mate, this sailor,
• 9:22
  this sailor idea of sound money is very important.
• 9:25
  This more people should take a look at this.
• 9:28
  And you're like, dude, you've been in this space probably
• 9:31
  longer than anyone. How is this just now on your
• 9:34
  radar? What is going on here?
• 9:37
  As one of the biggest advocates, as one of the biggest exchanges,
• 9:39
  you think he would have caught on this a lot earlier?
• 9:43
  But hey, better late than never. It seems from my perspective
• 9:47
  here that he is going to do a Michael Saylor strategy here.
• 9:52
  He's going to take that 2 billion of convertible offerings
• 9:56
  and probably smash by a bunch of Bitcoin, whether it's too
• 10:00
  billion or 1 billion. It looks like what we've been
• 10:03
  saying for a long time on the show, the price, the supply of
• 10:07
  Bitcoin out there circulating it, it.
• 10:10
  Something's got to give with all of these new announcement all of
• 10:12
  this billion dollars of capital that is trying to enter its way
• 10:15
  into Bitcoin, especially now coin base is part of the S&P 500
• 10:19
  things should be getting crazy and I know the price is kind of
• 10:22
  you know going down. I like I was saying it earlier
• 10:25
  this morning, kind of trolling. You know, this, this price
• 10:28
  action right now is making me feel a little uneasy to to be
• 10:32
  completely honest with you. I am getting my PTSD 2021 double
• 10:36
  top vibes start. You know, my, my Spidey sense is
• 10:39
  the pop up here. But you know, kudos to Coinbase.
• 10:43
  If they do take even half of that money or all of that money
• 10:47
  or a portion of that money to acquire more Bitcoin, that's
• 10:50
  good for every single one of us. So that would strengthen the the
• 10:53
  Bitcoin, I would say network. I think that would also
• 10:56
  strengthen their view in Bitcoin because now they really are
• 10:59
  aligned and not just kind of profiting off the top of it.
• 11:02
  So I found that very interesting this morning, but things are
• 11:06
  heating up. Things are getting crazy here.
• 11:07
  But Fernando, I want to take your view here.
• 11:09
  I think you've been in space a little longer than me.
• 11:11
  And it's just funny. Like I said, we were talking
• 11:14
  about this the last time you came on like 2 months ago.
• 11:16
  And here we are again talking about Coinbase seemingly
• 11:20
  rebranding orange washing themselves and now embracing
• 11:23
  Bitcoin. Can we trust this move?
• 11:25
  I think is the real question. I think it's crazy.
• 11:28
  And it's not like our, you know, prediction was insane neither.
• 11:32
  I think if you're long enough in Bitcoin, you've seen this story
• 11:35
  1000 times just on an individual level.
• 11:38
  So many people who got in very early and, you know, after four
• 11:42
  or five years, they started getting distracted.
• 11:45
  You know, when a new cycle comes and a new type of hype, you
• 11:48
  know, marketing strategy comes along.
• 11:51
  A lot of examples of early, early Bitcoiners who, you know,
• 11:54
  sold their Bitcoin to acquire some shit coin that is now dead,
• 11:57
  right. And you got to think about like
• 11:59
  Brian Armstrong being so early. I think, you know, he started
• 12:03
  going to these, you know, meetups in San Francisco back in
• 12:05
  2011, 2012, right? And when the whole bee cash
• 12:09
  stuff happened that you, that you mentioned, I mean that was
• 12:11
  like 2017. So a good like 5 plus years had
• 12:15
  passed. And you know, at that point it's
• 12:18
  very natural that humans get bored.
• 12:19
  They look for other things, they get distracted by shining new
• 12:22
  toys. So this is just something that
• 12:25
  I've seen on an individual level so many times, and this is just
• 12:28
  a corporate version of it. Somebody just fumbling the ball
• 12:31
  by thinking Bitcoin is too boring.
• 12:33
  And they get like, you know, attracted, influenced, persuaded
• 12:38
  by other marketing strategies and then come to realize, man, I
• 12:42
  just wasted so much time and energy on this.
• 12:46
  Let me just go back to Bitcoin real quick and just like, you
• 12:48
  know, clean up the mess that I did.
• 12:50
  So I think this is what Brian Brian Armstrong and Coinbase is
• 12:53
  is going through right now. And you know, hey, better late
• 12:55
  than never. You know, at least you came to
• 12:57
  the realization and you're trying to make up for it.
• 13:00
  But you know what, apart from that, I think the, the, the more
• 13:04
  interesting bigger story that we're looking at here is that
• 13:08
  there's a real shift happening with these treasury companies
• 13:13
  aping into Bitcoin. And I think the real shift here
• 13:17
  that is happening right now is that the unit of account use
• 13:20
  case of Bitcoin is actually taking the number two spot after
• 13:25
  store of value. I mean, I call them, you know,
• 13:29
  medium of exchange Maxis. They have kind of like been
• 13:32
  obsessed with convincing people to never hold any Bitcoin and
• 13:35
  spend it on a bunch of random stuff.
• 13:37
  And they wanted the medium of exchange story to kind of like
• 13:40
  be the, the number two-story after store of value, because
• 13:44
  everybody knows the store of value story is the one that so
• 13:47
  far in Bitcoin 16 year history has gotten most foothold, right.
• 13:51
  But when you look at sailor and what, what they're doing at 21
• 13:55
  with Jack Mahlers, what my former boss, Adam Back is doing,
• 13:59
  you know, and, and many more people as well, they're getting
• 14:02
  involved in companies that are now measuring share value in
• 14:06
  Bitcoin. So they're not pricing stuff in
• 14:09
  Bitcoin, they're measuring things in Bitcoin.
• 14:11
  And I, I think that changes the entire mental model.
• 14:15
  And I think this is even bigger than lightning ever was, because
• 14:19
  if you take a look at lightning and the stories that you, that
• 14:22
  you see here is, hey, I bought a McDonald's in El Salvador,
• 14:26
  right? But these stories that come out
• 14:28
  from these treasury companies is that basically all these people
• 14:32
  saying our equity is denominated in Bitcoin, right?
• 14:37
  McDonald's in El Salvador move literally $5 every time the
• 14:42
  other one moves 5 billion. So I'm thinking, you know, the
• 14:45
  unit of account war is being won right now by people who are not
• 14:51
  spending Bitcoin, but started thinking in Bitcoin.
• 14:54
  And I think this flip is worth just 1000 times more than all
• 14:57
  the McDonald's that you can that you can purchase with, with
• 15:01
  lightning combined. And I think a lot of people
• 15:04
  haven't noticed that yet, but that's what's happening right
• 15:07
  now that I'm incredibly bullish about.
• 15:09
  No, that's a, that's a great take, Fernando.
• 15:12
  I have absolutely love that because a lot of the
• 15:14
  conversation you're seeing right now around corporate Bitcoin
• 15:18
  treasury strategies is very like pessimistic.
• 15:21
  They're all like, it's paper Bitcoin, bro.
• 15:23
  You know what? I thought we were here for the
• 15:25
  separation of money and state. How are we embracing Wall Street
• 15:29
  and your takes like no, man, they are literally jumping the
• 15:33
  gun. They are pricing, you know,
• 15:35
  their their wealth in Bitcoin. They are using it as a unit of
• 15:38
  account. I guess the move.
• 15:40
  They totally are bending the knee.
• 15:41
  That's kind of what I've been saying, but I haven't heard it
• 15:44
  in that way. And I absolutely love that dude.
• 15:45
  I'm gonna I'm gonna totally steal that from you.
• 15:47
  That's great. That's totally great, man.
• 15:50
  Yeah, killing it. All right, Sophie, what's the
• 15:53
  girl's perspective The the the friendly mother Bitcoiners
• 15:56
  perspective from this? So you know, I always have the
• 15:59
  the 80 IQ take here. I don't know.
• 16:02
  Well, it's it's not going to be the 40 IQ take for me so.
• 16:05
  I don't know much, but what I do know is that we are in a
• 16:10
  liquidity crunch right now with Bitcoin.
• 16:13
  So it kind of just makes sense that one of the biggest
• 16:18
  exchanges in the world, the biggest one in the US is, you
• 16:22
  know, trying to accumulate some Bitcoin, right?
• 16:25
  I, I think it makes sense when you see so many people buying
• 16:30
  ETFs and having people like, you know, needing to answer to those
• 16:36
  ETFs with actual Bitcoin. So does it surprise me?
• 16:39
  No, I don't actually know if they are going for a reserve or
• 16:44
  if they're just trying to have Bitcoin on their balance sheet
• 16:47
  period. So that when people decide to
• 16:50
  sell at the top, they don't defraud their their customers.
• 16:55
  That's kind of my take. I think that at first, you know,
• 16:58
  he voted no because maybe he thought, I don't know, I don't
• 17:02
  know what he was thinking. But I think that now he's, he's
• 17:06
  seeing Bitcoin dip. He wants to buy it at a
• 17:08
  discount. And it just makes sense for the
• 17:10
  company to kind of, you know, get some Bitcoin before it keeps
• 17:16
  going up. Yeah, No, Sophie actually kind
• 17:19
  of sparked an idea in my head on the idea of liquidity crunch.
• 17:24
  I mean, he does have the back end on, you know, how much
• 17:27
  Bitcoin are on these exchanges. Maybe he's seeing what we've
• 17:31
  been kind of seeing and maybe he is panicking right now.
• 17:35
  And like, shit, if I don't jump on this accumulation strategy
• 17:38
  right now, there won't be that much Bitcoin at this price and
• 17:42
  I'm going to have to buy it at like 500 K and then I'm really
• 17:45
  not going to move up this leaderboard here.
• 17:47
  So that's that's very interesting.
• 17:50
  So OK, I mean. It's just, it's what I would do.
• 17:55
  So I, I just kind of like Occam's razor things.
• 17:58
  Sometimes I don't, I don't know, like the details and how deep
• 18:02
  this could go or the macro behind it or whatever.
• 18:04
  But I I just see it as like a caveman.
• 18:07
  Number go down, buy Bitcoin, buy more Bitcoin before number go
• 18:11
  up. Totally, I'm caveman IQ for sure
• 18:14
  without a doubt. Now that's it man.
• 18:17
  See, This is why you need multiple voices on the show
• 18:19
  'cause it gets everyone thinking and you know, Fernando with the
• 18:23
  unit of account selfies with like Brian Armstrong can see the
• 18:26
  back end and there's not that much Bitcoin around and he wants
• 18:29
  to buy it and accumulate it himself.
• 18:32
  I would totally do that too. Selfie.
• 18:34
  It's the Matthew McConaughey meme of him.
• 18:37
  Like smoking a cigarette, like stressed out.
• 18:40
  That's that's. Oh yeah, Brian.
• 18:41
  Armstrong, right? Now.
• 18:42
  Well, it was first the Ben Affleck cigarette, and now it's
• 18:45
  the Matthew McConaughey cigarette.
• 18:46
  Those are two different energies.
• 18:48
  First of all, one of them is like panic and the other one is
• 18:51
  being annoyed. Yeah, it's exactly the same
• 18:53
  thing. It's exactly the same thing.
• 18:55
  All right guys, we got a a jam packed show and of course before
• 18:58
  we move on, you got to hit them like buttons.
• 19:00
  Comment on this show is Brian Armstrong or rather Coinbase
• 19:03
  accumulating Bitcoin. Will they follow the Michael
• 19:06
  Saylor strategy? And of course hit the subscribe
• 19:09
  button guys, we drop the most and the best content on YouTube
• 19:12
  and Rumble and Twitter and whatever other social media is
• 19:16
  out there we're on it. Any yeah there you go she's a
• 19:21
  professional shiller. Let's go anyways guys, I do want
• 19:24
  to give a shout out to our partner over at Bitcoin.
• 19:27
  Well go to bitcoinwell.com/simply BTC and
• 19:31
  of course make sure you are using Bitcoin only exchanges,
• 19:36
  especially for your noob friend, your your, your mom and your dad
• 19:40
  and your cousin and your brother that are just getting into
• 19:43
  Bitcoin. Ensure that they don't get
• 19:45
  distracted by the shit coin casino.
• 19:47
  Send them somewhere where they won't even have an option to buy
• 19:52
  all that other garbage. And This is why we love Bitcoin.
• 19:54
  Well it is Bitcoin only, but also it ensures that you take
• 19:58
  your Bitcoin into custody. This is self custody by default,
• 20:01
  which means they have never lost Bitcoin.
• 20:03
  They will never lose Bitcoin. And when you send them your
• 20:07
  dollars, it goes straight to your cold storage.
• 20:10
  This is the way. And of course, if you're on the
• 20:13
  sidelines. I don't know what you're doing
• 20:15
  with a a huge chunk of dollars right now sitting on the
• 20:18
  sideline, but if you have $50,000 or more, make sure you
• 20:21
  hit the infinite product and use their OTC desk to buy $50,000 a
• 20:26
  Bitcoin at a time. This is for the, you know, the
• 20:28
  ones with deep pockets over there.
• 20:30
  I know, I know, you guys watch the show every once in a while.
• 20:33
  We're not all just plebs buying $10 a day.
• 20:35
  Some of you guys got some deep pockets and you're waiting for.
• 20:38
  I don't know what you're waiting for.
• 20:39
  You need to smash by that Bitcoin today.
• 20:41
  Sell those rental properties. Yeah, exactly.
• 20:45
  Dude, don't bring Nico up on the rental versus buying.
• 20:49
  He he gets super triggered. Anyways, guys, let's get into
• 20:51
  the show. We got a great one for you.
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• 22:23
  today. All right guys, we're over here
• 22:30
  on Clark Moody's dashboard. And before I move on, I'm, I'm
• 22:32
  getting absolutely cooked in the chat today.
• 22:34
  Hey, you know, it's good to be back.
• 22:35
  It's good to be back here guys. I missed you actually, I was in
• 22:39
  the chat yesterday, but here we go.
• 22:41
  Clark Moody's dashboard. The current Bitcoin price is
• 22:43
  $115,120 per Bitcoin. The current block height is
• 22:48
  908,889. Market cap 2.29 trillion and we
• 22:55
  can't secure that 10% of the gold market cap we're currently
• 22:58
  at 9.61. Decline from all time high -6.4.
• 23:03
  You know, it feel, it feels pretty good, I guess.
• 23:06
  I, I don't know, I mean, Fernando, yeah, Fernando, you've
• 23:10
  been around for a while and you kind of mentioned it earlier.
• 23:12
  You know, we're all bored of 100K here.
• 23:14
  It's like, can you do something but -6% from all time high.
• 23:18
  It's like, what is this a dip for ants?
• 23:20
  I, I thought we were going to get dips again.
• 23:22
  I is this a bear market? I thought this this was the real
• 23:24
  bear market. It's this is nothing here.
• 23:26
  This feels I. Don't know we recovered.
• 23:29
  I'm dead inside. This is.
• 23:30
  Beautiful. Totally dead inside here.
• 23:33
  Don't look at the price guys. Let's.
• 23:35
  Go OK. Speaking of not looking at the
• 23:38
  price, shouts out to Pete Rizzo. He clipped this and shouts out
• 23:43
  to Paulo, of course, or Paulo of Tether.
• 23:46
  And he's made an interesting case here in regards to Bitcoin
• 23:51
  versus gold versus dollars that I found very interesting.
• 23:55
  So let's watch this and we will chat about it.
• 23:59
  There's nothing like Bitcoin, so it's going to it's perfection,
• 24:02
  but I think the Bitcoiners mistake gold as a competitor to
• 24:08
  Bitcoin rather than a gold competitor to the dollar.
• 24:12
  Before 1971, gold was the backing of the dollar and all
• 24:16
  the other currencies and then stopped.
• 24:19
  Or. Posed as they said at the time.
• 24:21
  And so reality is that gold is your edge against against the
• 24:28
  Fiat and Bitcoin is just perfection.
• 24:31
  Right. So sometimes you if you want,
• 24:34
  for example, if you're a trader, maybe instead of selling Bitcoin
• 24:38
  versus dollars, you could start thinking about selling Bitcoin
• 24:41
  versus gold. It's much if you want to
• 24:44
  diversify from Bitcoin because you think you are like the end
• 24:47
  of the cycle and maybe there is a crash and you want to just
• 24:50
  adjust your strategy to buy back Bitcoin and lower price.
• 24:52
  Probably it's better if you buy, if you sell it against gold
• 24:55
  rather than Bitcoin. So I don't think I've heard
• 25:00
  anyone just completely sidestep the conversation of Bitcoin not
• 25:06
  being a hedge to the dollar. He's like, Bitcoin is
• 25:09
  perfection. It's in a league of its own.
• 25:11
  Maybe gold is a hedge to the dollar, but Bitcoin is just
• 25:14
  completely head and shoulders better than everything else.
• 25:17
  As he said, Bitcoin is perfection.
• 25:19
  But I really like this idea, especially when you kind of talk
• 25:22
  to newer people coming into the Bitcoin space.
• 25:25
  We all kind of have the same memes constantly.
• 25:28
  You know, we, we only speak in memes here.
• 25:30
  And you, you just throw the memes at it.
• 25:32
  A Bitcoins, a hedge against inflation.
• 25:34
  And then, you know, the, the media, the corporate media will
• 25:38
  come out and they'll be like Bitcoin.
• 25:39
  See, I told you it wasn't a hedge against inflation.
• 25:41
  Why isn't it performing so good? And you're like, well, you know,
• 25:46
  if things happen, it's a bear market, etcetera.
• 25:49
  But I really like this take of like, look, Bitcoin isn't
• 25:51
  competing with gold. It's not even competing with
• 25:54
  Fiat. It's gold and Fiat that are
• 25:56
  competing against themselves. And it's only a matter of time
• 25:58
  until people realize, hey, Bitcoin is the best money.
• 26:01
  It is perfection. And that's when things really
• 26:05
  take off. So I'm gonna pass it to
• 26:06
  Fernando. Have you heard this take before?
• 26:08
  And what is your thoughts on what Paulo was saying?
• 26:11
  First of all, when I see Paulo, I just got to say something
• 26:14
  about Tether. OK?
• 26:16
  Like they make how many billions per employee?
• 26:19
  How many, like how much volume are they processing compared to
• 26:23
  like MasterCard and Visa? How many?
• 26:26
  Like they're the top ten largest holders of U.S.
• 26:29
  Treasuries, but guy the most profitable company per capita in
• 26:33
  human history can't gettheir.com domain.
• 26:36
  Like what's up with that? That's the most tethered thing
• 26:39
  ever. Their domain is literally
• 26:40
  tether.totheydontgotthe.com. I mean, can't another day goes
• 26:47
  by without me thinking about that anyway.
• 26:49
  Yeah, no, totally. I think the only thing that I
• 26:52
  can think of is like when the car was invented and people were
• 26:56
  comparing it to horses, you know, like humans just need
• 26:59
  something to compare something with, especially if it's a novel
• 27:02
  invention, because if they can't compare it or contrast it to
• 27:05
  something, they just, like, won't get it.
• 27:07
  So I think it's all about stories.
• 27:09
  It's all about narratives. Like, hey, is you thinking of
• 27:12
  Bitcoin as digital gold? Will that thesis actually
• 27:16
  convince you into buying Bitcoin?
• 27:18
  Go ahead. If something else, Hey, go
• 27:21
  ahead. You know, as we grow adoption
• 27:24
  and as Bitcoin just takes over the world day by day, different
• 27:29
  stories will mean different things to to more people.
• 27:32
  And the fact is, you know, Bitcoin is perfection.
• 27:35
  There's so many. I think there's so many things
• 27:37
  that resonates with Bitcoin in such, in so many levels, you
• 27:43
  know, physically, monetary, politically, philosophically,
• 27:47
  it's just about narratives and what actually works for you.
• 27:49
  So, but I guess Paulo, to me, well, that's common is like all
• 27:54
  these narratives that we have used for the past 16 years, we
• 27:57
  need to get rid of. We're now entering this like
• 27:59
  insane hyper bitcoinized. You know, we are entering hyper
• 28:03
  bitcoinization in terms of the adoption phase and we just need
• 28:05
  to think, think, think about new ways of understanding Bitcoin.
• 28:10
  Yeah, I, I totally agree with that.
• 28:11
  I, I love that we, we hear, you know, constantly speaking memes
• 28:15
  and throughout the whole process, I've always been
• 28:17
  thinking like, man, you know, if Bitcoin is, were so good at
• 28:21
  marketing Bitcoin and then we'd already be at $1,000,000.
• 28:24
  It's like, let's look at the mirror guys and, and acknowledge
• 28:27
  that we kind of suck at shilling Bitcoin.
• 28:29
  So maybe we maybe we do need to update our memes.
• 28:33
  Here, well, we're gatekeepers by now.
• 28:37
  Bitcoin Maxis are gatekeepers. Like I seriously think that we
• 28:40
  don't want anyone else to like anyone who isn't like an
• 28:44
  individual to adopt Bitcoin because we just, we kind of want
• 28:48
  it all for ourselves. And like, you know, at the
• 28:50
  institutions and the government and all the people who have been
• 28:53
  screwing us over, like, we just want this for ourselves.
• 28:57
  Selfie. That's so selfish of you.
• 28:59
  I know. There's also something to be
• 29:01
  said about so many Bitcoin bitcoiners being like Bitcoin's
• 29:05
  worst ambassadors throughout the throughout time.
• 29:08
  Like they literally sound like vegans at a BBQ.
• 29:11
  Right, we're just. We're just haters, OK?
• 29:14
  We're just major haters. It's so true, guys, you know,
• 29:18
  don't yell at your friends and family about ending the Fed,
• 29:21
  maybe find their pain points and then, you know, kind of cater
• 29:25
  the conversation around what you know they're hurting versus just
• 29:28
  hurling the same old and the Fed, you know, inflation memes.
• 29:33
  It's there's a there's fifty ways to skin a cat here, guys.
• 29:36
  Simply Bitcoin, where we teach you how to be less autistic with
• 29:39
  your friends and family. Well, yeah.
• 29:46
  We offer a paid program, you know, behind the paywalls.
• 29:50
  How to speak to normies I hit? The Like button.
• 29:53
  How to speak to normies. That's our secret product coming
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  out 100. And $97.
• 29:58
  Yeah, Sophie and I are literally in, in a, in our Slack group
• 30:04
  with Nikko and, and it's Altis translator where where Niko's
• 30:09
  Altis translator. So we know what we're doing
• 30:12
  here. We're we're very good at it.
• 30:14
  All right, guys, I do want to pivot.
• 30:16
  I'm going to kind of make these segments a little shorter
• 30:18
  because I do want to go to the culture with Fernando and really
• 30:21
  talk about, you know, why he left block stream.
• 30:24
  And then of course, what he sees as a media landscape, because I
• 30:27
  think there's a lot of overlap to what we're doing and what
• 30:30
  Fernando's been seeing. But we do have an interesting
• 30:33
  speech come out of the SEC and Hester Pierce about privacy.
• 30:37
  The at the same time that we're seeing the Roman Storm case,
• 30:41
  they're they're still deliberating over the jury and
• 30:43
  then of course, the whole samurai wallet stuff.
• 30:45
  So privacy is really in the news right now.
• 30:48
  And I think there's there's a, you know, an interesting
• 30:50
  dichotomy playing out right now. So let's get into that.
• 30:53
  I'm going to try to make it short so we can have a longer
• 30:55
  conversation on the tail end of the show, but there is a lot to
• 30:59
  cover. So here we go.
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• 32:55
  So as I was telling you, actually someone in the chat
• 32:59
  kind of hit me to this yesterday they did a $2.00 super chat and
• 33:03
  they said very cryptically SEC breaking news.
• 33:07
  And I looked and I'm like, I mean, there's a press release
• 33:11
  and what, what are we talking about?
• 33:13
  And then I found what they were saying.
• 33:15
  I believe it's got a weird title.
• 33:19
  There's like a weird intro part about watermelon with peanut
• 33:23
  butter on it that kind of like makes her case of
• 33:26
  disintermediation. But anyways, the title from
• 33:29
  Hester Pierce here is called Peanut Butter and Watermelon
• 33:32
  Financial Privacy in the Digital Age.
• 33:35
  And of course, you guys can find this on sec.gov in The Newsroom
• 33:39
  speeches and statements. It just came out yesterday or
• 33:43
  actually sorry, 2 days ago. And I was going to fully break
• 33:47
  this down, but in the kind of the idea of making this a little
• 33:51
  shorter, I will kind of summarize the the different
• 33:53
  parts that I highlighted. So she starts talking about how
• 33:57
  technologies shake things up. They disintermediate the third
• 34:02
  parties, the intermediaries. And she was really using the
• 34:06
  idea of how there used to be telephone operators and a lot of
• 34:10
  them were local. And then that got
• 34:12
  disintermediated and it really scares an industry.
• 34:15
  It starts to shake things up and as the disintermediation
• 34:19
  happens, law enforcement gets kind of shaken up.
• 34:22
  They they get scared. They they rely very heavily on
• 34:25
  3rd party doctrines and they maybe overstep a little bit in
• 34:31
  the sense that they get, they just don't want to change what
• 34:34
  they've been doing for so long. It's work.
• 34:36
  Why should we change? But when new technology comes
• 34:39
  along, you need to change and adapt.
• 34:42
  And essentially what this speech was covering is this idea that
• 34:48
  what we're seeing right now with third party information and the
• 34:52
  idea of digital privacy, the statutes that are going on, the
• 34:56
  mental models that these law enforcement institutions are
• 35:00
  using are are really outdated and they need to update
• 35:03
  themselves. And she really hit on a few
• 35:05
  different things in terms of privacy and transactional
• 35:10
  privacy, which is why we're really bringing this up right
• 35:12
  now. So quote since the banking
• 35:14
  transactions of an individual give a fairly accurate account
• 35:18
  of his religion, ideology, opinions and interest, a
• 35:20
  regulation impounding them and making them automatically
• 35:23
  available to all federal investigative agencies is a
• 35:26
  sledgehammer approach to a problem that only a delicate
• 35:29
  scalpel can manage. The sledgehammer has become the
• 35:32
  tool of choice for monitoring. Monitoring from a financial
• 35:35
  crimes bank's ability to encrypt data gave rise to the growth of
• 35:39
  online financial services by ensuring that financial
• 35:42
  institutions could protect customer data.
• 35:45
  But as customers use online financial services, they
• 35:48
  transmit and thereby necessarily disclose more information to
• 35:52
  their financial institutions, which under the third party the
• 35:54
  doctrine is construed as acceptance by the customer that
• 35:58
  they have no expectation of privacy in the data, and the
• 36:01
  data is thus outside the scope of 4th Amendment protection.
• 36:05
  The paradox then is that banks can use encryption to protect
• 36:09
  private customer data from theft or public disclosure, but the
• 36:12
  customer nonetheless has no expectation of privacy in the
• 36:16
  encrypted data under the third party doctrine.
• 36:19
  And this questions, you know, everything going on here and a
• 36:23
  lot of the precedent that we're seeing happen today is based on
• 36:27
  this assumption. And she's talking about these
• 36:29
  privacy implications of the Bank Secrecy Act may need to be
• 36:34
  reformed. And this is a timely topic.
• 36:36
  And I think she's saying this obviously in the face of the
• 36:39
  Roman storm Tornado Cash case that's happening right now.
• 36:42
  They're literally still deliberating about this.
• 36:44
  I'll give you a short update on that.
• 36:46
  And of course, the Samurai wallet case where they just
• 36:49
  changed their plea to guilty of a money transmitter license or
• 36:53
  sorry, violations of money transmitter license.
• 36:56
  But some interesting stuff did happen in this whole speech.
• 37:00
  She quotes Phil Zimmerman, of course, a pretty good privacy
• 37:04
  and original kind of cipherpunk legend that used encryption to,
• 37:09
  of course, protect some privacy here.
• 37:12
  It's called pretty pretty good privacy.
• 37:14
  It's a software, right? But there's also here you can
• 37:17
  see, you know, Phil Zimmerman, one of the cryptographers,
• 37:19
  yadda, yadda, yadda. But she also directly quotes a
• 37:23
  cypherpunk's manifesto. We are in an interesting
• 37:27
  timeline here where Hester Pierce, of course, of the SEC,
• 37:31
  one of the top people at the SEC, is quoting A cypherpunk's
• 37:34
  manifesto. Obviously she's been a Bitcoiner
• 37:37
  for a long time. You know, I, I forget what they
• 37:40
  call her, they call her like the godmother of Bitcoin or
• 37:43
  something, the mother of, of crypto.
• 37:45
  I, I forget what, what her nickname is, but here's the
• 37:47
  quote that I think really made some headlines on Twitter.
• 37:50
  Was this restoring Americans privacy in their financial
• 37:53
  transactions will be an uphill battle.
• 37:56
  Eric Hughes, who studied mathematics here at Berkeley and
• 37:58
  wrote a cyberpunk manifesto, observed quote.
• 38:01
  We cannot expect governments, corporations or other large
• 38:04
  faceless organizations to grant us privacy out of their
• 38:08
  beneficence. And sometimes we the people are
• 38:10
  pretty stingy too when it comes to privacy.
• 38:13
  Whenever I publicly raise concerns about the expansion of
• 38:15
  financial surveillance, someone says something along the lines
• 38:18
  of quote, I have nothing to hide.
• 38:20
  It is wonderful that law enforcement is watching everyone
• 38:23
  financial transactions so that you can get the bad guys.
• 38:27
  And they often suspiciously follow that statement with why
• 38:31
  are you a regulator advocating less surveillance?
• 38:34
  And of course, I think we've all heard this.
• 38:36
  I have nothing to hide. And a lot of us big owners like,
• 38:39
  hey, you have blinds at your house, right?
• 38:41
  Like you hide things all the time.
• 38:43
  Privacy does not mean secrecy like you.
• 38:45
  You just want to keep certain things private.
• 38:48
  Anyways, denying people. Here's the last sentence I'll
• 38:51
  cover and then I'll give you some updates and we'll chat
• 38:53
  about it and move on. Quote.
• 38:54
  Denying people financial privacy, whether through
• 38:56
  sweeping surveillance programs or restrictions on privacy
• 38:59
  protecting technologies undermines the fabric and
• 39:02
  freedoms of our families, communities, and nation.
• 39:05
  The American people and their government should guard zealous,
• 39:08
  zealous, zealously. Wow, I can't speak.
• 39:11
  People's right to live private lives and use technologies that
• 39:14
  enable them to do so. Again, this is Hester Pierce,
• 39:18
  the commissioner of the SEC. I want to reiterate that last
• 39:22
  sentence here, that Americans and people should be able to use
• 39:28
  technologies that enable them to maintain privacy.
• 39:33
  Now, why is that such an interesting thing to kind of
• 39:36
  cover right now? Well, of course we are seeing
• 39:39
  all kinds of stuff play out in regards to the Tornado Cash case
• 39:44
  we're seeing. Of course, the Samurai Wallet
• 39:47
  devs got arrested, which really kind of triggered us here on
• 39:51
  simply Bitcoin. That's when we kind of realize,
• 39:54
  hey, this this Biden administration is not so
• 39:57
  favorable against us and maybe we need to change.
• 40:01
  And then going over, you guys know, I've been a huge fan of
• 40:04
  Lola Elites. They've been doing great work
• 40:05
  recently in regards to privacy and the overstepping of the
• 40:09
  government and different institutions.
• 40:11
  And they've been covering the Roman storm case live every
• 40:15
  single day. Sorry, guys, I thought I had
• 40:17
  this updated. So here we go, three hours ago.
• 40:22
  The jury in the trial against Roman Storm says it is
• 40:25
  deadlocked on some charges. Course asked jury to reconsider.
• 40:29
  If the deadlock remains, the court will accept a partial
• 40:32
  verdict and government may retry remaining charges.
• 40:35
  An hour later, two hours ago, the jury is still deadlocked.
• 40:38
  Partial verdict incoming. So let me refresh this.
• 40:41
  Maybe we got an update on this. Live update on this.
• 40:46
  We have a verdict. Oh, let's let's David, we have a
• 40:49
  verdict in USAV Storm is a mixed verdict.
• 40:52
  It's really complicated and there's a lot to talk about, but
• 40:55
  generally it is good news. On counts one and three against
• 40:59
  Roman, the conspiracy to commit money laundering and to violate
• 41:03
  sanctions, the jury was unable to reach a unanimous verdict on
• 41:08
  those charges. We essentially have a mistrial
• 41:11
  on the 2nd. Charge.
• 41:13
  Conspiracy to operate an unlicensed money transmission
• 41:16
  business. We do have a guilty verdict,
• 41:19
  however, that's you know, that charge has been forked and
• 41:22
  changed a bit. Also the maximum sentence there
• 41:25
  is five years. Additionally, there was a move
• 41:29
  by the prosecution to remand Roman to state custody.
• 41:33
  That was overturned. That was denied.
• 41:35
  So Roman will be free on bail while the appeals process goes
• 41:40
  on and until sentencing. Judge Fila emphasized that there
• 41:44
  was a great deal of fighting left to do before we get the
• 41:48
  sentencing. We will obviously continue to
• 41:50
  cover that. But split decision, no unanimous
• 41:54
  verdict on charges. One in 3 guilty verdict on
• 41:57
  charge to the MTB charge. We will be filling in on that as
• 42:02
  we move forward. Thanks, everybody for paying
• 42:04
  attention. This is important.
• 42:07
  Awesome. OK, well, shouts out to the rage
• 42:09
  again, guys. They've been doing great work.
• 42:10
  Go follow the rage tag low elites in the team.
• 42:13
  They're doing incredible work in my opinion.
• 42:15
  Again, as oh, I'm blanking on what's what's his name is Zach
• 42:22
  David Morris. Yeah, thank you.
• 42:24
  Zach Morris. Is that like a movie star or
• 42:26
  something? Anyways, I think that's a band.
• 42:28
  Yeah, I think that's a band. Alright.
• 42:29
  Anyways, the the what, what's interesting about this?
• 42:34
  And and of course, I was going to kind of bring up the Samurai
• 42:36
  wallet stuff 'cause I wasn't sure if this was going to kind
• 42:39
  of get the final verdict live. But since we got the final
• 42:41
  verdict, it is really making me wonder about the Samurai wallet
• 42:47
  plea deal, or rather the turn from non guilty to guilty.
• 42:51
  Because it sounds like from everyone's take around this,
• 42:55
  this is it seems like they got a deal.
• 42:57
  It's probably going to be of lesser charges, but it's
• 43:00
  interesting that they both seem to be guilty on the same idea of
• 43:04
  a money transmitter business. And I find it very interesting
• 43:08
  considering what Hester Pierce has been saying.
• 43:11
  Of course, she's not part of the, you know, the New York
• 43:14
  courts here. But we are starting to see some
• 43:17
  very interest, like there is a new privacy fight happening in
• 43:20
  real time. This is very important stuff
• 43:22
  that's happening. Obviously, most people probably
• 43:25
  don't care. Maybe it's because they're like,
• 43:27
  we have nothing to hide. Why does this matter?
• 43:29
  But hey, we got a final verdict here.
• 43:31
  It seems generally good news, optimistic moving forward for
• 43:36
  the Roman Storm case, which was I believe precedent for
• 43:39
  attacking Bitcoin and Bitcoin developers like the Samurai
• 43:42
  wallet guys. So now it's gonna be very
• 43:45
  interesting to see what happens with the Samurai wallet guys.
• 43:48
  They seem to be essentially pleading the same things and
• 43:54
  we'll see what precedent gets moved forward, But it looks
• 43:57
  generally good though from the rages coverage in the Samurai
• 44:02
  wallet case. It was kind of a win for the
• 44:04
  DOJ, but I think for the guys, the developers themselves, it's
• 44:10
  probably a lot better than, you know, spending 25 plus years for
• 44:15
  just creating a software. So this is most likely why they
• 44:18
  took the plea deal. It could have been saving face
• 44:20
  from the New York courts themselves.
• 44:22
  It could have been, you know, saving their ass from the
• 44:25
  samurai wallet guys. It's like, hey, they're going to
• 44:28
  cook the books against us, but we'll take a lesser charge here.
• 44:31
  And it seems like they did the same thing with Roman Storm.
• 44:34
  So shout out to the jury. I'm glad we could get this live
• 44:37
  coverage on the show for you guys.
• 44:39
  I'm I'm glad I refreshed that. But anyways, Fernando, you did
• 44:42
  say whoa, when we were covering this.
• 44:45
  What's your take on all this? I'm sure you've been covering
• 44:47
  the privacy wards that are currently happening.
• 44:50
  Yeah, I mean, yeah, it was, it was just good to see that at
• 44:53
  least the jury deliberated and they they managed to come up
• 44:56
  with, you know, some verdict. I, I was surprised that it took
• 44:59
  so long, but at least it's, you know, it's, it's a testament
• 45:04
  that they're taking it seriously and they they are, they're
• 45:06
  really thinking about this. I'm going to be super boring
• 45:09
  here. I don't want to have any
• 45:11
  comments on like political or legal stuff.
• 45:13
  The only thing I want to say is I think it's the system is
• 45:17
  messed up because I think they're just stacking these type
• 45:22
  of cases. As for future reference, I don't
• 45:26
  know exactly what direction things will take in the future,
• 45:29
  but I think a guilty plea puts a a solid reference for any
• 45:34
  future, you know, targeting that they want to do.
• 45:39
  And they will, you know, look back at today and, and say, OK,
• 45:43
  yeah, we got a guilty charge for this and they might stack it up
• 45:46
  against future builders. So, you know, in, in that sense,
• 45:50
  feel like the system is, yeah, just it's not favorable in that,
• 45:53
  in that regard. So I'm kind of like bummed out a
• 45:55
  little bit that there was a guilty plea there that, that
• 45:58
  Roman, you know, entered, you know, kind of like a few days
• 46:02
  ago the situation with a, with a, with a guilty verdict.
• 46:05
  So it sucks for future because I, I don't know what they're
• 46:08
  going to do in the future, but this, this case and many similar
• 46:11
  ones are, are going to be continuously used as a reference
• 46:14
  in the future. So let's see where it goes.
• 46:18
  Yeah, 100%. I, I couldn't agree more, though
• 46:20
  it is interesting that Hester Pierce herself was saying this
• 46:25
  is a very timely conversation. And so it really goes to show
• 46:29
  there is a privacy war going on. And that's not even considering
• 46:32
  what's going on in the UK in in just the broader terms of the
• 46:36
  Internet. Like there is a concerted effort
• 46:39
  right now of trying to like KYC, the Internet itself, privacy
• 46:43
  tools around Bitcoin, you know, mass surveillance around the
• 46:47
  world as our boy JJ on Rumble, who is a a cash maxi.
• 46:51
  He's not a Fiat maxi, He's just a cash maxi.
• 46:54
  He's like, we are going cashless.
• 46:57
  Yes, this is the future that we are hurling ourselves towards.
• 47:01
  It's just do you want to go a cashless future with a, you
• 47:04
  know, a central bank digital voucher as the chat's been
• 47:07
  renaming it or something that they can't control.
• 47:10
  This is the future where we're headed here.
• 47:12
  So it is what it is. So I don't want to cut you off,
• 47:14
  but I do want to move on and I know you'll have more fun in the
• 47:16
  media conversation than talking about privacy.
• 47:19
  So we're going to move on, do the culture and talk about
• 47:22
  Fernandoz new project. And I think you guys are going
• 47:24
  to love this because this is what we do every single day.
• 47:27
  And this is what you guys love, Bitcoin media and the landscape
• 47:30
  where we're headed. So it's going to be an
• 47:31
  interesting combo. I want to give a shout out to
• 47:34
  our partner Hive Digital Technology.
• 47:37
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  All right, guys, this is where I think we're going to have a fun
• 49:39
  combo. You know, the beginning of the
• 49:41
  show is a little speculative. Then we kind of got a little
• 49:44
  dark there for a little bit. But this is I think where we all
• 49:47
  come into play is every single one of us.
• 49:50
  So Fernando, you and Nico, we're reach out.
• 49:53
  Nico's supposed to be here. It's about, you know, he got jam
• 49:55
  packed with stuff last minute. We got you on the show because
• 49:59
  of this huge announcement, man, we we, you had you on two months
• 50:03
  ago. I think it was two months ago.
• 50:04
  Maybe it's a month, who knows? But time flies so fast.
• 50:07
  And the before we even started the show today, I was like,
• 50:10
  dude, Fernando, things changed so quickly in about a month,
• 50:13
  man, you've been doing some big things.
• 50:15
  So Fernando, let's just start with that combo.
• 50:18
  You know, why did you leave block stream?
• 50:20
  And of course, you know, what is the next move?
• 50:23
  And then we'll kind of chat about the media landscape at
• 50:26
  large because this is one of my favorite combos to have in.
• 50:29
  Jail yes well, yeah, again thanks thanks for giving me the
• 50:33
  time and and the platform to to talk about it.
• 50:36
  Well, you know, I've been in four plus years of blog stream
• 50:39
  and you know, everybody in the Bitcoin space know about blog
• 50:42
  stream. And you know, one thing that
• 50:45
  that is very common for everyone who works at blog stream, no
• 50:48
  matter if they're like engineers or cryptographers.
• 50:51
  But all the way to, you know, the marketing department that I
• 50:55
  was leading as the VP of marketing and communications, We
• 50:58
  all are at the bleeding edge of of Bitcoin infrastructure at
• 51:02
  lock stream. So, you know, part of the job,
• 51:04
  you know, no matter what you do, it's to kind of like try to look
• 51:08
  at things and try to spot any vulnerabilities, any weak
• 51:13
  points, you know, you, you essentially you're just poking
• 51:16
  holes at, at, at everything, you know, just to, just to make sure
• 51:19
  that whatever you build is, is solid, right.
• 51:22
  So as a, as a marketer just doing marketing and comms stuff,
• 51:28
  I was kind of like poking holes at, at the way we are dealing
• 51:32
  with media, the way we're dealing with the press, how just
• 51:36
  essentially how everyone is consuming information and
• 51:39
  content. Because, you know, on one-on-one
• 51:41
  side, I, I consume a lot of content in order to put it
• 51:45
  through a block stream filter. And then there's an audience on
• 51:48
  the other side consuming that content that we create.
• 51:50
  So I was kind of obsessed about how that dynamic works and what
• 51:56
  I was actually seeing. I kind of like saw the same
• 51:59
  movie play out everywhere. You know, founders that are in
• 52:04
  the Bitcoin space was kind of like making bets based on, I
• 52:07
  don't know, 10% of the narrative.
• 52:10
  You know, like if you really take a look at most builders in
• 52:12
  the space, we take a really good look at the Bitcoin ecosystem.
• 52:17
  Everyone is like repackaging the same, you know, few ideas.
• 52:20
  Everybody's like either working on creating a better wallet.
• 52:24
  You know, at this point, nobody really cares.
• 52:26
  There's so many wallet options like you just a plethora of
• 52:29
  options or they want to get like an exchange, you know, created
• 52:36
  decentralized exchange or centralized essential, whatever.
• 52:38
  But that's a raise to the bottom.
• 52:40
  Then if if not, they do podcast and just want to do education.
• 52:44
  And this is like, you know, you guys are are leading the frail,
• 52:46
  but there's just so many sources now that where you can actually
• 52:49
  get your education from or it's better custody, But that's
• 52:53
  already solved. That's a that's a problem that's
• 52:56
  already solved. And then the the last iteration
• 52:59
  is like they work on lightning or some L2 stuff and kind of
• 53:02
  fixing what's not really broken. This is to really see some
• 53:05
  innovation in this space. Would me would be admitting
• 53:08
  that. Hey, there's a lot of things
• 53:11
  that Bitcoin already have one in and we need to build for what
• 53:15
  comes after, right? So this goes also, you know,
• 53:20
  this is common to like Bitcoiners being so deep in
• 53:22
  their bubble they miss, you know, the tsunami building and
• 53:25
  traditional finance as well. And that also goes for
• 53:28
  traditional finance Bros that are so stuck in their frameworks
• 53:31
  that they can't really see, you know, what's happening on our
• 53:34
  side. So everyone's like pretending
• 53:36
  that they can see the whole picture and making decisions
• 53:39
  based on that based from like 1 little, little window like that.
• 53:42
  So the reality is, you know, I honestly think we're living
• 53:46
  through the biggest information fracture in history.
• 53:49
  It's and it's not about like, oh, people have different
• 53:51
  opinions. I really think people are living
• 53:53
  completely different realities. Like you can really show the
• 53:57
  same thing to five different people.
• 53:59
  You will have 5 different opinions on it.
• 54:02
  Bloomberg is showing one movie. The communities on Hacker News
• 54:06
  is playing another. Policy makers are watching a
• 54:09
  third movie. And like, somehow we are
• 54:11
  supposed to make sense of it all And, you know, we want to jump
• 54:15
  between browser tabs and hoping we catch the right information
• 54:18
  at the right time. And I think that's totally
• 54:19
  insane. So I'm building a solution to
• 54:22
  fix that so that, you know, people really see a 360 view on
• 54:26
  what's happening in in Bitcoin and like the emerging finance
• 54:31
  sector. And I think it's going to help a
• 54:32
  bunch of people, you know, founders, business development,
• 54:36
  content creators by just going into this platform and getting
• 54:40
  all the information distilled on what's happening with Bitcoin
• 54:43
  every single day. So that's essentially what I'm
• 54:45
  building. It's called perception.
• 54:47
  People can go check it out at perception dot TO don't have
• 54:50
  enough money to buythe.com yet, but yeah, that's, that's kind of
• 54:54
  like what I'm building right now.
• 54:55
  It's currently in beta, but I, yeah, after four years, I have
• 54:58
  log stream. I, I couldn't, I couldn't, you
• 55:01
  know, wait anymore. It was a itch that I had and
• 55:04
  it's time to build a solution, isn't it?
• 55:07
  So Fernando, is this I and I really before I, I do want to go
• 55:11
  back to like the, you know, the total general media landscape
• 55:15
  view. But I, while we were talking
• 55:17
  like, is this the Bitcoiner version of like the Bloomberg
• 55:21
  Terminal that you just built? Like is it, I mean, just just
• 55:26
  for like a comparison here, 'cause I, I, you know, I, I
• 55:29
  can't, I can't log in live on the show here, but that's kind
• 55:33
  of the idea that I'm getting here.
• 55:34
  This is like the Bloomberg. Terminal the Bloomberg Terminal
• 55:37
  slash perplexity. I don't know if you guys have
• 55:40
  used love perplexity. It's a perplexity slash
• 55:43
  Bloomberg Terminal for the entire industry app.
• 55:47
  Love it, dude. Love it.
• 55:49
  OK, well, so if people sign up or you said it's still yeah,
• 55:53
  Yeah, still. So can people sign up or is
• 55:56
  this? Yeah.
• 55:58
  Go to perception dot TO go check it out there.
• 56:01
  You'll see you'll you'll have you'll have the free version.
• 56:04
  Of course, you you won't be able to see the whole thing, but it's
• 56:07
  already it's already I have like hundreds of users already in
• 56:11
  giving me feedback every single day.
• 56:13
  I'm constantly building to make it better and yeah, I think the
• 56:17
  the industry really needs it and you know, it was the right time
• 56:21
  to just focus on this 100%. Tight.
• 56:25
  OK, hey, let's actually let me put this in the background and
• 56:30
  maybe they can see some stuff while we while we chat.
• 56:32
  About it, that's a demo. So that's kind of like how the
• 56:34
  whole thing looks like right now.
• 56:35
  So in that video you'll see the entire app as well.
• 56:38
  So, OK, tight. So what is a, there's a free,
• 56:44
  you said free version and then a paid version.
• 56:47
  How much can people expect to pay for this?
• 56:50
  And then I guess why the demo goes, they'll kind of get an
• 56:52
  idea of of what. You're yeah, it, it depends on,
• 56:55
  you know, who you are, but for, for like content creators or
• 56:58
  people who just want to just know what's up, The, the, the
• 57:01
  lowest tier is 45 bucks a month. And then the, you know, the
• 57:04
  enterprise pro tier that is a little bit more heavy.
• 57:08
  You can go back a lot. You can literally see data from
• 57:13
  2011 and you can do a bunch of correlations.
• 57:15
  That's 99 bucks a month right now while it while it is in
• 57:19
  beta. Yeah, love it.
• 57:22
  OK, So is this also, so it's not just a like a Bloomberg
• 57:27
  Terminal, can this is this pulling like coin glass numbers
• 57:33
  as well? Like what what other information
• 57:36
  is is this is this just basically pulling RSS feeds of
• 57:40
  mainstream media covering it? Like what?
• 57:42
  How how's the? Yeah, what's the what's the
• 57:44
  content? Of this so this is this is 200
• 57:47
  plus sources. You'll you'll see social media,
• 57:50
  you'll see crypto media, you see legacy media, you'll see
• 57:54
  international like global media in different languages and
• 57:58
  communities like Hacker News, Reddit, and then a bunch of
• 58:05
  podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, essentially the entire media
• 58:09
  landscape is is there and it's not really like coin glass or
• 58:15
  any of these like on chain metric platform.
• 58:18
  This is more about mapping how narratives are forming, how
• 58:23
  narratives are fragmenting, and how they are spread across the
• 58:26
  entire like shattered media landscape.
• 58:29
  It's about like seeing the 2nd order effects before they become
• 58:32
  first order problems, if if you know what I mean.
• 58:35
  There's one really cool feature in the app that gives you the
• 58:39
  blind spot. So you can totally see when
• 58:41
  something is brewing and being discussed, let's say on X and
• 58:45
  and then you'll see the blind spots.
• 58:47
  Like you can see how much time it goes from once trend is
• 58:51
  detected to if, and this is if it gets picked up by either
• 58:55
  crypto media or legacy media or international media, or even the
• 58:58
  inverse. When something is being highly
• 59:00
  covered on legacy media, but it's not being, but it's being
• 59:03
  ignored by bitcoiners on X. You'll also see that as well
• 59:06
  with like a nice visual as well. So, you know, it's, you know,
• 59:09
  for, for for people who are strategic about this, who are
• 59:13
  building businesses or working at a company, company, this is
• 59:16
  gold because you know, seeing opportunities from all the
• 59:22
  tweets, all the articles that are being posted every single
• 59:25
  day is literally it will drive you mad and you will give it to
• 59:28
  the brink of insanity. So you, you'll.
• 59:31
  See. Can't confirm.
• 59:32
  Can't confirm. You'll see in the app actually,
• 59:35
  when you see all the trends and all the sources and who's
• 59:38
  talking about what, you'll actually see how many hours this
• 59:41
  would have taken you to actually get to.
• 59:43
  Because I think you can probably log into the timeline every
• 59:47
  single day and see what's happening and feel like you know
• 59:49
  what's happening. But how do you know this is just
• 59:53
  a very small fraction of the entire world, right?
• 59:56
  Like I'm trying to bring in all pockets of the Internet.
• 1:00:00
  So you see a 360 view and not necessarily come in an echo
• 1:00:03
  chamber. And this is something that I've
• 1:00:04
  been talking about in a few podcast lately that we also
• 1:00:07
  discussed, you know, a month ago together this whole.
• 1:00:11
  Narrative warfare that I believe we are now entering a kind of
• 1:00:14
  like a very intense face to where like audience capture is
• 1:00:19
  really a bitch. And the incentives are so
• 1:00:23
  misaligned that everybody is going to continue talking about
• 1:00:28
  whatever topic they've been building their audience with.
• 1:00:30
  In the same way they're going to double, triple down on the thing
• 1:00:34
  that built them the audience in the 1st place.
• 1:00:36
  And they won't have the luxury to pivot on any topic.
• 1:00:40
  And Bitcoin is included. Bitcoin is maybe the, the, the
• 1:00:42
  best example of this, right, that you see old legacy players
• 1:00:47
  like the BBC or or something like that, just doubling and
• 1:00:50
  tripling down on Bitcoin FUD, recycled FUD from 2017.
• 1:00:54
  And you wonder like, why? Why is this happening?
• 1:00:57
  Well, it's because they don't have the luxury to pivot because
• 1:01:00
  they will lose the little ounce of audience that they have left.
• 1:01:03
  So in these times that we're entering right now, this BBC
• 1:01:07
  example is also going to be an example for what you think today
• 1:01:12
  are established outlets. People are just going to
• 1:01:15
  continue talking about whatever in the same fashion that they
• 1:01:18
  have done. And I think with all that bias
• 1:01:21
  and all those incentives put into place, the audience is
• 1:01:25
  actually the loser because you eventually just become pigeon
• 1:01:28
  holed in this echo chamber that gets harder and harder to jump
• 1:01:33
  out of. So I think that's why I built a
• 1:01:35
  perception as well, not not only for like business purposes, but
• 1:01:38
  also for the industry, for everybody to just have at least
• 1:01:41
  one place where they can go and they can get a full 360 view of
• 1:01:45
  everything, kind of like perplexity.
• 1:01:48
  Now that's super interesting and I really like what you said
• 1:01:51
  about like the second order effects of these conversations,
• 1:01:54
  cuz you know, we, we'll, everything you said there.
• 1:01:58
  I can fully 100% agree with. We, we deal with this
• 1:02:02
  constantly. We have the chat yelling at us
• 1:02:05
  constantly about certain topics and, and certain things that do
• 1:02:08
  get views on YouTube. And then we always try to sneak
• 1:02:12
  in stuff on the back end. So if they, they like the first
• 1:02:14
  stuff, you know, they came to click the video for the first
• 1:02:17
  topic, then we sneak in the stuff on the back end.
• 1:02:20
  And, and hopefully I always say, and I, I think I tell this to
• 1:02:23
  Sophie, like every other day is like, hopefully one day we can
• 1:02:26
  get on the show and we can just do, you know, the, the really
• 1:02:30
  juicy stuff up front versus what the audience wants to hear and
• 1:02:33
  what they're searching for on YouTube.
• 1:02:35
  But you know, you play the game as as the game comes along and
• 1:02:39
  you know, I am constantly thinking about this on the back
• 1:02:42
  end of how do we kind of not fall into the audience capture
• 1:02:47
  here because it is a very real thing.
• 1:02:49
  And you see that and then all the research that we do.
• 1:02:51
  Like my timeline, dude, I I have to take my notifications off
• 1:02:54
  because it drives me absolutely crazy.
• 1:02:57
  I have to unplug constantly because I do feel like my brains
• 1:03:00
  about to explode. But I like that second order
• 1:03:03
  effect so that you can see what the conversation is like in the
• 1:03:07
  in the grand landscape of the Internet, because we'll have
• 1:03:11
  stories. We're like, all right, we think
• 1:03:13
  this is super cool. And then you put them on the
• 1:03:15
  show and it flops and you're like, OK, maybe, you know, maybe
• 1:03:18
  it's just big in our small little echo chamber and we could
• 1:03:22
  have done a better show if we knew that in the context of
• 1:03:25
  everything, this is a bigger idea.
• 1:03:28
  So I really love that. And then also, you know,
• 1:03:30
  connecting the dots between all the different tweets and the
• 1:03:33
  news stories. It'd be nice to go to one place
• 1:03:36
  and be like, oh, OK, yeah, all right, Maybe I don't have to
• 1:03:40
  freaking go down 27 different tweet threads to get that one
• 1:03:44
  story that I want to share with you guys.
• 1:03:47
  So absolutely. One thing, one thing that's
• 1:03:49
  important also to understand, and this is not only a problem
• 1:03:52
  that audiences or people who just want to like, you know,
• 1:03:54
  educate themselves on Bitcoin or whatever is struggling with.
• 1:03:57
  This is like a real business problem too.
• 1:03:59
  Like there's so many Bitcoin companies, lightning companies,
• 1:04:04
  just so many companies in the space that think that, you know,
• 1:04:07
  they're building for something that has a great demand.
• 1:04:10
  And then they, they launch a product and it's just like
• 1:04:13
  crickets. You know, like there's a real
• 1:04:15
  problem with like thinking that, you know what's best for the
• 1:04:19
  world. And sometimes your reality is
• 1:04:23
  not really, you know, it's kind of like disconnected from the
• 1:04:26
  real world sometimes because you, you tend to be in this very
• 1:04:30
  intense, the echo chamber that Bitcoin sometimes is.
• 1:04:35
  But I'm not talking about like Bitcoin and like Bitcoiners in a
• 1:04:38
  derogatory way. This is like a problem for any,
• 1:04:40
  anything in the world. This is just the reality that
• 1:04:43
  we're living in. The fact is the monoculture is
• 1:04:46
  dead and consensus reality is fractured.
• 1:04:49
  Like you can see some of the things that the infighting that
• 1:04:52
  happens, you know, inside the Bitcoin community.
• 1:04:55
  And it's like, so retarded sometimes.
• 1:04:57
  It's like, it doesn't really matter, like in the big things.
• 1:05:00
  But some of these people are just so deep into, you know, the
• 1:05:03
  engineering, the cryptography. They don't really see outside
• 1:05:07
  that. They really don't, you know,
• 1:05:08
  their world view is very, very affected by that.
• 1:05:11
  So this tool is just that, you know, I want all of us to come
• 1:05:15
  like navigate this new world where all sources, all outlets
• 1:05:21
  are fractured and have these perverse incentives.
• 1:05:24
  And we need to get back to, you know, be able to see a 360 view.
• 1:05:28
  So we can, you know, educate ourselves and not necessarily be
• 1:05:31
  too ideological about this neither because I do feel if I
• 1:05:35
  want to be like super critical about Bitcoin, you know, a lot
• 1:05:38
  of people that are trying to orange build people have been
• 1:05:40
  kind of like having the inverse effects because we don't really
• 1:05:44
  know the problems of the people that we're trying to orange pill
• 1:05:48
  because our view is so locked in on a very specific thing.
• 1:05:51
  So you know, I'm, I'm thinking, you know, the this platform is,
• 1:05:56
  is good for many things. Yeah, no, it's while you were
• 1:06:01
  talking. I kind of have the like wow
• 1:06:02
  moment. At first I was just thinking of
• 1:06:04
  it from like a, a personal view here as like a media talking
• 1:06:07
  head, but it's literally a tool for all bit corners building,
• 1:06:12
  whether it's media or, you know, you're building some kind of
• 1:06:15
  wallet. And it, you know, honestly, I, I
• 1:06:18
  feel really good about this Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna at the very
• 1:06:21
  least have my own free account. And then I'm gonna, I'm gonna
• 1:06:24
  force Niko to get us the, the paid account here.
• 1:06:27
  Cuz the chat will yell at us constantly about like, yo, talk
• 1:06:31
  about this story. And we're like, well, I think
• 1:06:33
  this is a bigger story. And now we'll have some data to
• 1:06:36
  back it up. You know, now we can be like,
• 1:06:37
  hey, look, bro, you know, actually a personal, personal
• 1:06:40
  conversation here. We, we get yelled at constantly,
• 1:06:43
  especially on Rumble. We used to have the meme review
• 1:06:46
  here, you know, and yeah, I'm bringing up the meme review
• 1:06:49
  guys. It would be at the very end of
• 1:06:51
  the show, I would review memes. It was fun.
• 1:06:54
  It was, you know, it was a, it was a good segment.
• 1:06:56
  It was really our origin. And then we looked at our data
• 1:07:00
  on all of our shows and people would tune out on the meme
• 1:07:02
  review. And I, I point to it all the
• 1:07:04
  time and I'm always like, guys, look, I know you have, I know we
• 1:07:08
  have like 5 or 6 of you guys in here that are like die hard meme
• 1:07:12
  review guys. You yell at me every single day
• 1:07:14
  about it, But from our vantage point, the data was telling us
• 1:07:18
  no one cared about it. And when I point to that,
• 1:07:21
  everyone's like, dude, they're manipulating the data, bro.
• 1:07:24
  Like YouTube, YouTube's manipulating the data.
• 1:07:26
  I'm like, bro, I don't think they're going to manipulate like
• 1:07:28
  500 people tuning out during that 10 minute portion of the
• 1:07:32
  show. And now we can use that.
• 1:07:34
  Yeah, about me. And then we can use this for
• 1:07:37
  everything moving forward. So I, I think this is very
• 1:07:41
  interesting. I'm, I'm definitely going to
• 1:07:42
  look into this. You got me excited anyway.
• 1:07:47
  So do you want to chime in or Fernando, you got a couple?
• 1:07:49
  You let's we're going to give you the last couple of minutes
• 1:07:52
  before. So have you got a question?
• 1:07:54
  I think that this is a great tool, the best thing that you
• 1:07:58
  said. About I love the Meme review.
• 1:08:00
  I, I used to love it too until, you know, people started tuning
• 1:08:04
  out. But I love what you said about
• 1:08:09
  how there is no monoculture anymore because that's so true.
• 1:08:13
  You know, back in the day, there used to be like, what, 5
• 1:08:16
  channels? And everybody used to follow
• 1:08:18
  exactly, you know, the TV schedule, what was on sitcoms.
• 1:08:23
  And there was like, everybody knew the script and the lines
• 1:08:26
  and the jokes and everybody was in on it.
• 1:08:28
  And we felt so united. Like the other day, I saw this
• 1:08:31
  video of these people seeing Return of the Jedi in 1983 for
• 1:08:36
  the first time. And like it, you see that group
• 1:08:39
  of people now and you would think like, wow, those people
• 1:08:42
  nowadays just based on how they look and how they dress and, you
• 1:08:45
  know, the way they speak would be so like you could
• 1:08:48
  automatically make the assumption of how different they
• 1:08:51
  are. But in that video, in that
• 1:08:53
  moment in time, they just seemed so united.
• 1:08:56
  And I feel like we desperately need that again as a culture and
• 1:09:01
  not from, you know, the big institutions or the overlords at
• 1:09:05
  like big media. I think that we need that from
• 1:09:09
  each other. And in a way, we do have that on
• 1:09:12
  X because, you know, and it, and it's by vote and on Reddit and
• 1:09:15
  whatever. Like we, we like the content
• 1:09:18
  that we like and we want to see. And you know, us as, you know,
• 1:09:23
  decentralized media here on YouTube, we try to bring that to
• 1:09:27
  our audience. We try to bring what stories we
• 1:09:29
  think they're interested in based on how popular they are,
• 1:09:33
  but we don't always get it right.
• 1:09:35
  So it's great to have a tool like this to maybe lean on and
• 1:09:41
  kind of see what's not artificially being pushed out
• 1:09:44
  there. Yeah, I know it's a good point.
• 1:09:45
  And I think what you're talking about is like shared cultural
• 1:09:48
  moments. That was like, you know, you,
• 1:09:50
  we, we shared, you know, like you said, sitcoms and it was
• 1:09:53
  like water cooler talk was a thing back then because pretty
• 1:09:57
  much everybody was seeing the same thing.
• 1:09:59
  So we we, we could actually hang out and talk about it.
• 1:10:02
  And there was a high degree chance that you have actually
• 1:10:04
  seen the same thing that I see. Like I had lunch the other day
• 1:10:07
  with a couple of people and I was talking about an author that
• 1:10:09
  I had read that I knew have sold millions of books.
• 1:10:12
  Those people have no clue who that person was.
• 1:10:14
  I was like, this guy has actually sold millions of books
• 1:10:17
  and you guys have no idea who that is.
• 1:10:18
  That talks like how fragmented everything is.
• 1:10:21
  And you know, I think. How niche everything is also
• 1:10:25
  like, and I think that that used to be a thing in the Bitcoin
• 1:10:30
  community also. There were so many things that
• 1:10:32
  used to unite us and now we're all so fragmented because ever
• 1:10:37
  since these big corporations came in and ever since like
• 1:10:40
  basically the more Bitcoin gets adopted, the more we're going to
• 1:10:44
  get the outside normies and their opinions and their like
• 1:10:48
  fragmentations in it. It it kind of reminds me of like
• 1:10:53
  The Walking Dead and like whenever you they introduced
• 1:10:55
  like a new character, a new community, like it would just
• 1:10:58
  like mess up the storyline and like the bonding for everybody
• 1:11:01
  else that in like the previous season.
• 1:11:03
  That's kind of like what's going on here in Bitcoin.
• 1:11:06
  So, you know, it would be cool to return to that and to have
• 1:11:10
  like those moments of unification.
• 1:11:14
  And I think that, you know, this is a really, really cool tool to
• 1:11:18
  maybe start that. Yeah, thank you.
• 1:11:19
  Well, you know, the it's a linear progression of like
• 1:11:23
  everybody speaking on Bitcoin talk and then splintering to
• 1:11:26
  Reddit and then splintering to Bitcoin Twitter.
• 1:11:28
  And now we're like all over the place.
• 1:11:30
  People are jump jumping platforms and not, you know,
• 1:11:33
  they're a noster, they're own ex or, or, or, you know, so it's I
• 1:11:36
  think the splintering is just going to continue and we we will
• 1:11:40
  just be in a living in a more and more fragmented, you know,
• 1:11:42
  media, you know, landscape and society will definitely be
• 1:11:46
  affected by that. But hey, if my tool can actually
• 1:11:49
  help people have a good idea of what's happening in our
• 1:11:52
  ecosystem, then my job is done. So.
• 1:11:56
  Yeah. And the worst part is like,
• 1:11:58
  there's so many people who think that, you know, a lot of the
• 1:12:01
  Internet is kind of guided by bots.
• 1:12:04
  I don't know if you've heard of like dead Internet theory.
• 1:12:07
  So so. 50% of the Internet is bots now.
• 1:12:10
  Yeah, and it's crazy and it's bots bought by big media and
• 1:12:15
  people who still want to be driving a narrative.
• 1:12:17
  So I think that we have a duty as decentralized media to fight
• 1:12:22
  against that as much as possible by sticking to the truth more
• 1:12:27
  than anything. And you know, if if your
• 1:12:30
  platform offers that, I think that's like a huge yeah.
• 1:12:33
  None of none of the none of the data that you see on the
• 1:12:35
  platform is based on like how many likes or how many comments
• 1:12:39
  something has had on X, for example, because that stuff is
• 1:12:41
  just absolutely fake. That's Fugazi as hell.
• 1:12:45
  It's all about and it's very curated.
• 1:12:47
  I know the industry so well. And that's kind of like one of
• 1:12:50
  the benefits of this tool that you know, the founder is there's
• 1:12:54
  a founder market fit in a way. So I know who's who and they are
• 1:12:59
  in the tool. I'm not like scraping the entire
• 1:13:01
  Internet and taking all this garbage with me.
• 1:13:04
  It's more about who are the entire outlets like more more,
• 1:13:09
  you know, legacy media, more established media, but also the
• 1:13:12
  new media like simply Bitcoin is definitely in perception.
• 1:13:15
  You'll see that there and individual individual X profiles
• 1:13:19
  that I know of that should be there are there.
• 1:13:22
  So this high curation is also incredibly valuable and it's one
• 1:13:27
  of the most important value propositions that perception has
• 1:13:30
  because you don't, you know, other similar tools are
• 1:13:33
  literally scraping the entire Internet and do it is already
• 1:13:36
  dead Internet. We we are here AI slop bots,
• 1:13:40
  everything is automated. So I'm trying to exclude that.
• 1:13:43
  So you see only high signal when you log into Perception.
• 1:13:47
  Love it. That's incredible.
• 1:13:50
  I, I do before we wrap up, I, I think that, I think the audience
• 1:13:54
  got a, a lot of value from this conversation, but I, I want to
• 1:13:59
  personally pick your brain here, Fernando, where are we headed
• 1:14:02
  here from the media landscape? What is the media landscape
• 1:14:05
  future for Bitcoin and Bitcoin? So you know, the, the old meme
• 1:14:10
  of like, you come for the NGU, but you stay for the revolution.
• 1:14:14
  And I feel like that meme implies that, oh, you're going
• 1:14:19
  to stay, you're going to stay around long enough and kind of
• 1:14:22
  like read books and listen to hours of podcast and get like
• 1:14:25
  inspired and educated by a bunch of different people.
• 1:14:29
  I don't think we're going to see that anymore.
• 1:14:30
  I think that is the future. I think people are going to come
• 1:14:33
  from, for one thing that they saw there like 3-4 influencers
• 1:14:37
  that they resonate with the way they talked about Bitcoin and
• 1:14:41
  they developed their understanding based on that.
• 1:14:43
  They're going to come into Bitcoin and but they're going to
• 1:14:45
  stay there because that's how the future of media algorithms
• 1:14:50
  are going to tie you in, echo chambers are going to tie you
• 1:14:52
  in. So for the majority of the
• 1:14:54
  people, they will just stay in the same echo chamber that came
• 1:14:57
  in through. So if people are going to, you
• 1:15:01
  know, appreciate Bitcoin because they listen to Pompliano talk
• 1:15:05
  about Bitcoin, the way he talks about it, that's probably going
• 1:15:08
  to be their whole understanding of Bitcoin for the future.
• 1:15:10
  So we're going to have a wider, you know, adoption is going to
• 1:15:13
  continue and we're going to have a lot of more people into
• 1:15:15
  Bitcoin. But I don't think I think their
• 1:15:18
  opinions are probably not going to change that much.
• 1:15:21
  And we're going to see a a fragmented community that all
• 1:15:25
  deserve to be called Bitcoiners, but are going to differ
• 1:15:28
  extremely in terms of why they think Bitcoin is important, if
• 1:15:32
  that makes sense. Now that that makes a lot of
• 1:15:35
  sense. It got me thinking.
• 1:15:38
  It made me think of the the whole new breed of Bitcoiners
• 1:15:42
  that came through like the MicroStrategy, you know, Sailor
• 1:15:45
  route. And some of them I think very
• 1:15:48
  famously or infamously on Twitter like, yeah, I've never
• 1:15:50
  actually they've been in this space for years and never
• 1:15:52
  actually like touched Bitcoin or sent a peer-to-peer transaction.
• 1:15:56
  You're like, what is going on here?
• 1:15:58
  Like that was the first thing I did.
• 1:16:00
  Like what do you what like wow, we really are, I guess the, the
• 1:16:05
  Renaissance bitcoiners here. We're we're like boomer
• 1:16:07
  bitcoiners. We we've been, you know, we, we
• 1:16:10
  got all we're like got all the tools, you know, Thanos rings
• 1:16:14
  like we've been around for so long that we kind of at least
• 1:16:16
  know a little bit of every pocket.
• 1:16:19
  But it is interesting to think that because I've been saying
• 1:16:21
  for a minute that moving forward, we'll get to a point, I
• 1:16:25
  don't know if we're there yet, but we'll get to a point where,
• 1:16:28
  you know, bitcoiners come in and they, like you said, they don't
• 1:16:30
  need to read the books. Like they don't need to read or,
• 1:16:33
  you know, listen to the 40 hours a week of podcasts.
• 1:16:35
  Like they, they don't need to sit and battle shit corners on
• 1:16:40
  Twitter, you know, to earn their stripes.
• 1:16:42
  They're just going to come and save in Bitcoin and use it like
• 1:16:45
  money. And they'll be like, wait,
• 1:16:47
  what's like, what are you, what are you guys talking about here?
• 1:16:50
  Like, it's, it's my money, it's saving, it's saving my wealth.
• 1:16:52
  That's all I need to know. Like I, I just need a wallet
• 1:16:55
  that I want to use. I can send it to my friends and
• 1:16:57
  family of the basics of just how to send and receive, and they'll
• 1:17:01
  be considered Bitcoiners. And they don't necessarily need
• 1:17:04
  to be as, I guess that, for lack of better terms, as ideological
• 1:17:08
  as we are, or we had to be to just really be this convinced of
• 1:17:12
  what this thing is. They will just come in and use
• 1:17:15
  it and be like, yeah, this Bitcoin thing's cool.
• 1:17:18
  And that will be the next breed of adoption.
• 1:17:22
  Interesting. 100% interesting. Well, I guess, I guess my IQ is
• 1:17:26
  raising here. Fernando's agreeing with me.
• 1:17:28
  So it's not 42, It's 43 today. I I drink enough coffee to
• 1:17:33
  smarten myself up. But Fernando, thank you so much,
• 1:17:38
  man. It's always a pleasure when you
• 1:17:39
  come on personally for us because it confirms a lot of the
• 1:17:44
  things that we see and that coming from another vantage
• 1:17:47
  point and also awesome Bitcoin like yourself, it's like, OK,
• 1:17:51
  we're not missing the mark. Yes, chat, I know we can improve
• 1:17:55
  on things. You know, we're not perfect
• 1:17:57
  here, but maybe with perception here, we can get better at what
• 1:18:01
  we do. So, Fernando, thank you so much,
• 1:18:03
  man. I wish you.
• 1:18:04
  All the best. On this new endeavor, man, and I
• 1:18:08
  think I think we're going to have to bring you back on
• 1:18:11
  continuously as our I don't even know I'm making a new role here,
• 1:18:16
  our independent media guide or something.
• 1:18:19
  You know, you'll come back on in a in a couple of weeks and you
• 1:18:22
  can tell us what you're seeing, what your vantage points are,
• 1:18:25
  what new narrative we should be watching out for where the
• 1:18:29
  attack is coming from. I think that'd be that'd be.
• 1:18:32
  Interesting. Yeah, cut that check.
• 1:18:33
  No, I'm just kidding. Always, always love talking to
• 1:18:40
  you guys. So anytime you want to invite
• 1:18:42
  me, I'll drop all my plans and and be here for you guys.
• 1:18:45
  That's that's a good one. It's like literally what you did
• 1:18:49
  for that. That was crazy.
• 1:18:51
  That was crazy. All right, Fernando, thank you
• 1:18:52
  so much. Of course, Sophie, thanks for
• 1:18:56
  filling in the Co host seat. Actually, I feel like I feel
• 1:19:01
  like Nico and I are getting fired here.
• 1:19:02
  Sophie's taking over our job. So dead.
• 1:19:06
  That's OK guys, go on vacation. I got this.
• 1:19:08
  Yeah. This is it's like giving a child
• 1:19:10
  the keys to a Lambo. Yeah, that's not going to work
• 1:19:12
  out. That's not going to.
• 1:19:13
  Work out dead instead of dead. Internet theory.
• 1:19:15
  It's dead simply theory because Sophie's taking.
• 1:19:18
  I don't know, I'm butchering anyways, Anyways, guys, come
• 1:19:21
  back tomorrow. Of course we will be live Monday
• 1:19:23
  through Friday. We're supposedly usually 12:30,
• 1:19:28
  you know, but subscribe to the channel.
• 1:19:31
  We are dropping a ton of content for you guys.
• 1:19:34
  On that note, we'll see you tomorrow.
• 1:19:35
  Have a good rest of your day. Peace out.
• 1:19:38
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a
• 1:19:41
  Bitcoin only platform on a mission to enable financial
• 1:19:44
  independence.