Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "Take Me Away" with Dan Olsen of Sack of Lions

Transcript

"Take Me Away" with Dan Olsen of Sack of Lions · Caught on the Mike...

• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Deck fans will get that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is calling them up.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, I am face to face with my friend Dan Olson from Stack of Lions.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a big day for you, sir, hasn't it?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Today, Stack of Lions released their brand new single, Take Me Away.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I gotta tell you, I'm listening to it, and this kind of goes along with what you posted on Facebook earlier.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: These are hard times to write an upbeat song.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember whenever I played in bands, it was different times.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was a different era.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: But to come out with something that's upbeat but awesome also has like an emotional feel to it, that's uh quite a feat.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so congratulations, sir.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: The song sounds awesome.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh like all of my songs are usually sad as shit.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like all like heartbreak, sad.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's my favorite kind of song.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's like about lost and that everybody can relate to.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like I wrote this like the demo uh probably about a year and a half ago, and I was just like in a really good spot in my life, and I was just happy.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, you know what?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then what's crazy was like during a pandemic, I was the happiest, you know.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because you know, you gotta just be positive, you can't control the shit that's going on around you.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I was like, man, I wrote I wrote the demo and I sent it to Phil.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, is this stupid with like the woo-hoo-hoo?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this gonna get us boo out of everywhere we play?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And like within a few hours, he'd already sent me back his added parts on it.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, we might have something here.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it's been today's just been incredible.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: The response has been amazing because I've seen everybody and their brother, all of our mutual friends just sharing it all over the place.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's just what's so amazing about having like the network of friends that we have that you know, even if it's people that don't, this isn't their style of song, they're still sharing it and stuff.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the support's been outstanding.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's just amazing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: We share a mutual friend with Ryan Osbar, and you guys have kind of really made this transition stylistically.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: You've been longtime fans of country, but you guys have played in rock bands way ahead of this.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have made this flawless transition that is just something to be in awe of.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks, man.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was uh, I mean, I I started out, I always wanted to play music since I was a little kid.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I started taking piano lessons when I was six, and like I remember when I was like in second grade, you had to draw a picture of what you wanted to be when you grew up, and I drew a picture of like what looked like David Bowie, like this, like pink hair, makeup on, guitar, microphone, and everybody else has drawn like firefighters and policemen and lawyers and doctors.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just this oddball.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I still can vividly remember this picture, and I remember taking it on my mom, and I was like, What's this?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this possible?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, you may want to look at some other options too.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I always wanted to do it, and then I we started playing like punk music when I was like 18.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I think everybody starts in a punk band because it's three chords, shit ton of distortion, hide all your mistakes, and you know, and then I started playing like a harder band, Felt, which we played with Three Quarter Evil a few times back in the race still, like I mean, this is a long time ago, and you know, after that, I was like, I always grew up like listening to country.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I listened to like my parents had this old tall, like hi-fi player, and I'd listen to like a ton of Ray Charles and Elvis, and then you know, Alabama, and then on to like all the 90s country, like Alan Jackson and Garth Brooks and all this stuff, like all these like super catchy, like three-minute songs.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were like a little bit longer than a pop song, but they told the story, they got in and out, big catchy choruses, and I'm like, well shit, man, I can do that.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I was always terrified of like putting myself out there and writing honest lyrics.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I could write like metal songs and stuff like that, but I wanted, I would I was like, if I'm gonna bear my soul to these people, I don't want to get like, oh, this guy fucking sucks.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well, I don't give a shit about his story.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: But so it took me a long, long time to be like, you know what, I'm just gonna do it and be out there, and then like we've been doing this for about 10 years now, and it's just slowly every year it gets better and better and better, and you know.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I started out with just me and Dylan, which you know Dylan Wade, he played Reganera for a while.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so he plays bass with us, and we wrote this song right when we were gonna start doing this, like in gosh, 2010.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was just this untitled song, it was a country song, it was called A Dog Named Tim.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: It has nothing to do with dogs, it's just as we'll get through the interview.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm terrible at titles of things.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we wrote the song we submitted to this contest, and uh we got chosen to do this like writing session with Roseanne Cash, which I mean was amazing.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, Johnny's daughter and her history of hearsing, you know, the Opry and everything.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we uh we're going to this thing, it was in it was down in the old market, I think it was in the Kineco or something like that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, we should have a band name if we're gonna go meet Roseanne Cash.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And Dylan's like, well, it's either leather tuxedo or stack of lions.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, right, right.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like that.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: We walk in and like, hi, and I'm just like, hi, we're Sack of Lions, and that's how the name came from it.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: It it means absolutely nothing but just an on-the-spot decision.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's uh and that was just like the start of Sack of Lions was that day, and then you know, fast forward to now we have these songs, and like, gosh, we need a drummer.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've played with Dave Collins for all these years, and he's just he's like the go-to drummer for everybody in town.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: But he's been a dear friend of mine for a long time, so I was like, You want to play in a country band?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Hell yeah, I'll play in a country band.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, Well man, we need a lead guitar player.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Well, fuck we should get Phil Reno, the best guitar player in town.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I talked to the Reaver one night, and I'm like, we were just at a at a some it might have been a Pony Creek show, maybe.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: But we were just there and I was like, hey, dude, would you want to play in some songs?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, send him over.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then Phil's like, I'm in, and I'm like, holy shit, I just fucking made an all-star band for my songs.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And but it's but it's progressed so far of like not just me being like, hey, here's the song, we're gonna play it.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Phil writes his own parts, Dylan, Dave, everything comes together to make it what Stack Alliance is.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think from watching you guys from afar, you could definitely tell that there's been a metamorphosis of this being a project of one man to being an actual band, the sum of all of its parts.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you can hear that in the recordings too.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was the last album, White Lightning, I believe?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that that was very, very, very well put together, and you could tell that that was a group effort.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, absolutely, yeah.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just, I mean, I'm sure that you have been like this too, you know, being a front man, you're like, sometimes you have to take that step away.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be like, this is how I want it to sound, and this is the only way it's gonna be.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then I hear like Phil write a lead, and I'm like, oh yeah, what am I doing?
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: This needs to be a collaborative effort, and that's what's taken us from just like playing the reverb every three months to you know doing a shit ton of shows, opening for nationals, almost every single show, touring.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I just got back from the UK for two weeks.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Those guys made this band so much bigger and better.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Drawing my own personal experience, it's you know, I was talking with a buddy the other day, and he was talking about Buddy Rich, the old jazz band leader, Buddy Rich.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Buddy Rich had this reputation of being verbally abusive towards his bandmates or people that were in his band.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was Buddy Rich, man, up until the moment I actually quit for about six to nine months, you know, had a kid, and I was Buddy Rich.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I kind of just let it all go.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next project that came about was Aura Singh, which happened to be the best project I was ever a part of.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like you hit the point, and that's kind of my point is that sometimes you just have to release that sense of control in order for something to evolve.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's tough too.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's tough to be like, because you know, you write something so personal and you want like this, you know exactly how you were feeling when you write these lyrics, and this is how you have wanted to sound, and then it's like, well, uh it took me so long, but I well, once you and that, and it releases so much pressure from you.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to be the one that writes all this stuff, right?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like Street Jammer is one of my favorite songs he recorded that was on uh White Lightning.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And Phil came with this whole lick, like he wrote that entire thing, and I just put the lyrics over the top of it, and it's like it was such a refreshing thing with Phil to bring this to uh to me.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that song, it's just like a Jerry Reed Picking kind of thing.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, it it it's you know, you don't you don't have to be like the guy, like it's a band, and I love the guys and I love their ideas, and it's so good, and it's just once I got out of my own head, it's made us so much better of a band.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a crazy thing how projects evolve over time and how we evolve as people along with those projects.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel that since you took these guys that were really reputable in rock bands and you placed them into the country world and you guys were all doing something new for the first time, it was easier to let go of that sense of control?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think so.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it was, you know, none of us had done any sort of music like this before.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, we're either gonna succeed together or fail together.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of like, you know, we're all in this, we're either gonna be like, holy shit, I saw a stack of lines and they were awesome, or holy shit, what the hell are those guys doing together?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Awful.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But it it was like, you know, you let your guard down because I trust those guys so much, especially on stage.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I always tell like the guys, there's some parts of songs where like when we're just in it together, like I'll sing notes that there's no reason I should ever sing because I have so much confidence that these guys are gonna sound so good that if I screw up, it hides behind these amazing leads and drum fills and bass lines.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it it's like it's the whole like we're in this together, we're either gonna fail or succeed together.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, but either way, we're still gonna come out of it as amazing friends.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any newer artists that have kind of lent to that spark to fire moment that made it easy or easier for you to kind of make this transition?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know for me personally, I did the solo acoustic thing for about like six months after Arising was done.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm huge Jason Iswell fan, huge Ryan Adams fan.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: So is there somebody like that for you that really kind of made that transition easier?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like Amuse, if you will.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, Isbel was a huge part of it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um just because like I remember coming home from like uh me and my buddies would go watch always on Sundays, we'll go watch football together and drink all damn day.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got home one night and I was like eating whatever shitty fast food we got on the way home.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was listening to uh uh Isabel, like he was like live at the House of Blues in Boston, and I was listening to his lyrics, and I was like, I was literally crying.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was emotional from drinking, of course, but I was like holy shit.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: This guy, you can really say every shitty thing that's ever happened to you, every your most vulnerable moments, and people are sit there and embrace it and love you for it.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So, like he was he was a huge one.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, like Tyler Childers, like he was the one that could you know tell a story in a song.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um but my like and then uh when the thing of Rate Lift came out in the night sweats, I'm like, dude, they're making like new amazing soul music.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and uh and another one this is so so so strange, but was Bruno Mars.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like this guy who's like five foot two can run a whole damn arena just based on confidence and songwriting and his voice.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, you know, to step out there in that huge spotlight is like it's amazing, and like it seems like you know anyone can do it.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to, you know, work at it and believe in yourself.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: But Isbel's probably the biggest one that like set me on, like, hey, you know, it's okay to be vulnerable.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so that was probably the biggest one.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: He tends to speak to a lot of the guys our age and the guys that came through music during our time.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I got turned on to him.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is I haven't been like a fan for a super long time, but my buddy, about the time Southeastern came out, he's like, you need to listen to this album.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was completely life-changing.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that's exactly when the Southeastern album is when I got into them too.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: That was like I heard that, and I'm like, holy shit.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this time.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's that's when I got into them.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Really big.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the new single.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what specifically is it about?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was um uh like I said, I was just in this really happy time.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh, you know, I travel a lot with the band and stuff, so I've never I haven't been like in a relationship in a long time, which is great because I I just love being alone.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like it was like this I do, I can do whatever I want anytime I want.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it was like this this whole idea of you know, when you find someone that's like, holy shit, like I waited my entire life to find this person, and this is this is like my person, and like we could take and just leave and our possessions, everything, money, jobs, and just drive, and just all that matters is we're together.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like I was like, it's just a happy song about finding someone that that you truly are meant to find.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll probably never find it, but I can write a song about it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fine with that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what though?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it came to you during the pandemic and writing it during the pandemic, but I think one of the things that we've learned over the course of the past two years, and it doesn't matter if you're left, you're right, if you believe in the science or not, if you believe that there was a pandemic or not, it doesn't matter what your sociopolitical beliefs are or whatever.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Relationships matter, and time is short and time is valuable.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, whether you wrote that song about a person that you're romantically involved with, it could have applications to maybe a child or a best friend or just rolling down the road with somebody you genuinely care about and just that experience of sharing those moments.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and see, this is why I love music, because like that's what you take from the song, and it's something completely different than how I imagined it, but that's that's what music's so perfect for because everybody thinks of their own relationship to what the sound is that's coming out of these speakers.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the most beautiful thing about music.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I could have like broke that song about, you know, gosh, being stuck at a gas station.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, something something's so stupid and small, but it turns into like, oh, this is like I remember whenever I met this girl and we just left and we drove to California.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's all interpreted by everybody else, and it's it that's what's amazing about it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, where did you record and how long ago did you put this song together?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, last July, uh, we went to Nashville and we recorded at uh Soul Train Sound Studios, uh, which was my buddy Nick Gibbons.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he uh he plays drums for my one of my best friends, Jeremy McComb, who takes me on the road all the time, uh, and CJ Solar.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but he's also like becoming one of the hottest producers in Nashville.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like he's like 26 years old, I think, somewhere around there.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, Nick.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but um he just he got asked to produce Marty Stewart's last album.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So he produced Marty Stewart's album, did like the duets album that he was doing with like Connie Smith with like Chris Stableton and all these guys.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that so last year he did Marty Stewart and Connie Smith's album, my buddy McComb's album and our album.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he might be doing uh some other like big, big projects too, but he's just building his way and he's he's obviously younger than us, but he has such a such an amazing ear.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you sent him all these demos, and he kind of like, we're gonna change these things here and here and here.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: None of us had ever worked with a producer before.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like we get in our van, we drive to Nashville, and then we like go to the studio early next morning, ready to go, and we run through uh this song and we're like, we're gonna change this and this and this, and it's like we all look at each other like he's telling us how to play our own songs, and you know, you've got to get over that because like if a country music hall of famer and Marty Stewart can take notes from Nick, sure as shit, a band from Omaha Council Plus can take notes.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And once again, you gotta get out of your own way and be like, hey, he's doing this for the greater good.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: He wants the song to be the absolute best.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it took a few drinks and a few like hey, a few cigarettes out on the out of the deck, like, hey, it's gonna be fine.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to Nick.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And by like five hours in, we're like, what else do you got for us?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to change?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: What else, what else do you got for us?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean the songs are really close to the same, but there's these small little tweaks that he made, and like Dave changed your drumbeat just for like four bars here, and like Phil lay off just a little bit here, then come back.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was just these small tweaks, but it made it so much better.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And like uh the studio was was so cool.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, um, I mean, Johnny Cash, Dolly Parton, Crosby Stills and Nash.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a couple weeks before we were there, Carrie Underwood cut a Christmas album there.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, it's like everybody from I mean it's been around since like the I don't know, 50s, and Rick Charles, I mean, like everybody that I love has recorded there, and then it was us, and uh, we we cut uh five songs over two days.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh he mixed those down, and then I went back in August and tracked all the vocals, and then uh one of my other good buddies, Rick Huckabee, who's uh an amazing person and musician.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was Tracy Lawrence's guitar player for you know, I don't know, 14 years.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: He played, he had a short stint playing uh in exile that I want to kiss you out.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um he uh and he's just an amazing songwriter.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: He's wrote some big hits, but he went in and like sang all the backup vocals in like one take.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And and then uh yeah, we got that all recorded, and then uh we sent it off to uh Sterling Sound with like uh Calvi and Fallone who've who've worked with like they they mastered the Born Daran album.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: Mastered David Bowie's Young Americans.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: They did like Casey Musgrave's Golden Hour, like all these huge, huge, huge albums, and then us, which is crazy.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, and it it it was a long process because Nick was so busy with the Marty stuff, and then he tours with Jeremy and tours with CJ.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: So recorded in July, finally got like the first mixes back in I think December, and then uh got it mastered in February, and we've had it for a little while.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we just wanted to take some time to you know, you know how it is releasing music to have it like 90 days out and all this shit.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but no, it's it was oh definitely.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna try to go back this summer and cut another five songs.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna release a few singles through the summer and then do another five songs like this fall, and then do have a full album by like next February or something like that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you what your release strategy was because everybody that I've had on the show from the music industry, I've asked the same question too.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is the future of the music industry not necessarily full albums but singles that are spaced out because of streaming?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I it looks like that's the way it's going.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sucks because my favorite thing was putting an album on and just listening through front to back.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: But now, I mean, society's like we want everything right now.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like all these like major label artists are like we're doing just putting a single out every six six to eight weeks, and it's a single, single, single, single.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because I mean nobody's gonna pay for the filler because nobody really buys besides vinyl, physical anymore.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: And like no one buys full albums on iTunes, so it's like it may turn into all singles.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean that's that's kind of our plan for the summer is to release like three or four singles.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know, it's just it is what it is.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just gotta adapt.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean it kinda snaps because I Love the idea of full albums, but I don't know if it'll ever be like that again.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I tend to take two opinions on it, and one is exactly I share yours as well.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like sometimes you want to take an album and create a composite story, you know, start to finish and and go through those highs and those lows.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: But on the flip side of it, it allows you the opportunity to eliminate any chance of a misfire.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, how we've we've watched this happen before.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: How many times has somebody planned a single, released a single, and then it's just it's a dud, you know?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, I mean, especially when like now labels they don't have to do like, you know, here's 500 grand.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Go, go get us, you know, 12 songs and we're gonna release 10, or give us 18 songs, we'll release 10.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's like, here's 10 grand, give me one song.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they go in and do that, and they're like, if they like it or not, whatever.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but then again, everything now is have to be like approved to be up down.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, major artists are being like, you know, here's our song, and like, okay, we like it, go cut it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's like, no, bring back another one before they even head into like a big studio to cut it.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's like a I hate to say it, but it's like a science formula anymore.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I mean, and what's what's even what's even worse, and I pray to everything that may or may not be God out there, that it doesn't go this way, but there's people on TikTok now that are releasing like a just a verse, and then like six weeks later, a chorus, they're releasing songs, one song over like two months.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm like, what what is this?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: This that that is like destroying art in every single way.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy to think about that.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird, it's slow marketing.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this duality about TikTok as well.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, since you brought it up, where I think if you're a creative and you are not finding a home on TikTok, you are missing out on the last true algorithm because it is the last social media network where the algorithm is user generated as opposed to platform generated.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, in the context of what you're saying, like let's uh what's what's his name?
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Charlie Pooth.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: He did that Light Scorpio song.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: That song that's huge right now was exactly what you were talking about.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a byproduct of TikTok.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: He basically, over the course of three to six months, wrote that song through one-minute clips over TikTok and just showed his whole process.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's like one of the biggest songs of the summer in its complete composite.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, kind of going to exactly what you're saying, the way music is being marketed now is much different than what we came up on.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's what like, and I'm trying to be a lot more active on TikTok now because like we were just talking about it when we were overseas, like, all these like artists are getting major deals off of TikTok.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, they're breaking.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, Old Town Rogue came off of TikTok.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like that dude, uh what's his name?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Mast Wolf that what you know about Rogue.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Shazam a billion times.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no major label, like these people are getting like huge stars off of TikTok.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, like, if you're out there creating music, I totally agree with you, but if you're not utilizing that yet, I mean, it's something that I'm really just starting at, but it I mean it's a it's like getting your if someone starts adding that into their like stories and stuff, it starts climbing.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's like back in the 60s getting your record played by a local DJ.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you explode, and it can grow so fast.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: There is definitely a big difference between some 40-year-old guy getting on TikTok just because he wants to make dance videos and a guy promoting a creative product.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in fairness.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: If if you see me doing dance videos on follow-up and send me an immediate message saying, Dan, what the fuck are you doing?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: All right, right.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because I even in the course of this podcast, me having this podcast, I have found that TikTok has been my most useful tool, not only for building my brand, but also cultivating guests and building that following.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, people give a fuck all when I post on Facebook or Instagram, but on TikTok, my videos will get thousands of plays, and then I'll check the statistics on the podcast statistics.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, holy shit! And this was for the byproduct of posting one-minute videos every day.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So now if I can figure out how to make the algorithm work on the other social media platforms, which I'm sure all of us wish we could do.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I got uh one of my good buddies, he uh he's a drummer in this band called the Pork Tornadoes, and they're this they're an amazing cover band out of Iowa.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: And he has a podcast uh called The Confused Breakfast, and it's like reviewing like old movies and stuff.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he just started it.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: They went on TikTok and he said, you know, the easiest way to grow stuff is like post something that's not divisive but will make people comment like, should so-and-so have been Marty McCly instead of Michael J.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Fox, and people like they'll die on that hill for Michael J.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they went from like a new podcast to I think they're the number three in the country movie review podcast, and it was all off of TikTok.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Bert Kreischer was talking about him on Two Bears One Cape, like like, I mean, it just blew up all off of TikTok.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, man, because I was like, I'm like, should a man my age be logging into TikTok?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because that is it's so much more than just stupid dance videos.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy how marketing a band has changed or marketing a creative platform has changed over even the last five years.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's something we could commiserate on, I think for hours because I talked to everybody about it.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because that was my thing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I I never I never claimed to be a great musician, but I was always a good fucking promoter.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, man.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you have to be.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it's it kind of like went like up to an awesome height and then down again.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, before, you know, like you're flyering cars at the ranch bowl.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to like Walmart flying cars and like putting up, you know, flyers at like caffeine dreams and coffee shops.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we're at the ranch bowl.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're going out at the mall handing out shit.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then it peaked up to like where you just like, yeah, my space and promote it and Facebook and promote it, and then now it's back down to like over here where you get lost in this transition.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'll post something on Facebook and it'll get a shit ton of views, and then I'll post something the next day, and then nobody will see it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right, I'm not doing anything different, and it's just so you went.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: We had this one like peak where everything was so awesome, and then I think it's back, and it could.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, it'll come back up again with something else new, but it's so hard to not it makes you kind of wonder if you use the platform too much to promote if you're not being shadow banned somehow.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's crossed my mind a time or two.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like there again, talking about engagement rates.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I like to use Instagram a lot, and there's some things where I'll get a fuck ton of reacts, and then some where I don't won't get any at all.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, dude, am I getting shadow banned somehow?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm posting too frequently.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, Gary V says you need to post twice a fucking day if you want to jar an algorithm.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess, yeah.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you have to find the sweet spot between too much and too little, and yeah.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: My brain, my brain can't handle that shit.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to play guitar and sing.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: What the so I'm supposed to ask you, what's this about Wolf Jerky?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Jesus.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: We uh we uh we found this like second home in Wisconsin.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's this town called Clinton, Wisconsin.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Super small town, but they have the best listening room in the entire country.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's the most amazing place.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: My favorite place to play anywhere.
• 30:06
  unknown: Yeah.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have uh we do the like inside the listening room, and then they have this big summer show where we do uh the first night is like me, uh McComb, Rick Huckabee, and then somebody else will do a song right around Friday night at the amphitheater, and then Saturday night we all play with our full bands.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like an amazing weekend.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: But we stopped at this gas station the first time we were up there, and they had like all this random jerky.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the sign literally said cheese and fireworks.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was the name of the business because they wiscons and cheese had a shitload of fireworks.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's awesome!
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they had it wasn't it wasn't Wolf, it was actually coyote jerky.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shit.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Phil, Phil Reno.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you gotta try it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, I don't want to try it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's not gonna be that bad.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: He goes, No, I don't want to try it because what if I love it?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, then I'm gonna be like, I got he's gonna be Jones and for Coyote Jerky.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: So none of us ever tried it for the fear of loving it too much.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they had like, I mean, gator jerky and raccoon jerky and like I mean, all this crazy shit, but of course there's a place called Isn't that the most fun part about traveling is getting to try these random shit?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like one of my most favorite places used to be, I used to call it quarter hot dogs and outside St.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Joe.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's that gas station that has a big billboard, 25 cent hot dogs.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's so funny that you say that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh we were going to play in Springfield, Missouri, and we had just like crossed into Missouri, and Dylan said, Hey, because it's at like the Jesse James like area where you get off at.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And Dylan's like, we gotta stop at the Jesse James place for 25 cent hot dogs.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, 25 cent hot dogs, you just trust me.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we go in there, they're still selling them for 25 cents.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is like two years ago.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But dude, don't don't get them.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: It looks like they're just putting Slim Jims on the rollers because they're about all dried out and shit.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I was like, how the f did you know?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he goes, Oh yeah, every time I come to this movie stop and get 25 cent hot dogs.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, crazy.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we played uh we played the booby trap bar in Wichita, Kansas.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is shit.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like fuck, it was like 17 years ago.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I'm dating myself, but we stopped, we got 25 cent hot dogs, but it just so happened to be during the time when the fireworks stand across the street was open.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we loaded up on fireworks.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: If I remember correctly, and you can ask around about this, I tricked Doug Decker.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't trick him, we we got him to do it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: He shot a fucking bottle rocket out of his ass outside the booby trap bar.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is around the time that that around the time that uh Jackass had just come out, and we're like, fuck it, hey, Doug, you know just uh just band on tour doing fun shit, man.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: So which below deck is your favorite below deck?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, you're getting right into my soul.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna talk bravo on caught on the mic here.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I it's only because I trust you I can I can feel really let myself go here.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: I if I had to choose one, it'd probably be Mediterranean.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a fan of all of them.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would go like Mediterranean, regular, uh the Australian one, and then sailing one.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: When I was uh you know nudged to ask you that question, I said, if Dan says sailing yacht, I'm gonna virtually kick him in the balls for it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't seem like it would be fun.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like when they start sailing, you're like dude, you get C Steck.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: You get no C Stick.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: No way, no way.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: But did you know uh Malia from Below Deck Med was in Omaha just like last week?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: What?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she was at like one of the bro bars.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: I saw an ad on Facebook for it, and I'm like, oh fuck, I just want to go just to say, hey, hey, what's up?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, I uh I'm not ashamed to admit it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I like it's like those shows where I just like turn my brain off.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: You look at like beautiful scenery, like oceans and beaches, and the food is always awesome.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: It always makes me so hungry watching it, but like it's like like you know, you get stressed out about shit during the day, you put on that, and it's just like it's just super relaxing to me.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I I religiously watch every one of them.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love that.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, what's next for Sack of Lions?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, yeah, the single was out today.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: The video uh comes out on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday, the what's that, the 14th, I believe.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh yeah, we're gonna start working on the next single, the next video.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just keeps going.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: We uh we'll be out in Kearney on July 9th, which goes honky tonk with our buddy McComb.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh we have some other shows that we're just waiting to announce.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Gotta get approved by all the agency shit, you know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Good enough, I guess.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and um, yeah, then we'll be doing a the big festival out of Wisconsin in August.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then like we just got back from the UK, and the response over there was insane.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: We already got like asked to come back and do a couple songwriter rounds in November, so we'll go back over there with uh Jeremy again, and uh you know, just kind of we took all this work to get this album out, so it's kind of like we take a breath here, chill for like a couple weeks, and then get right back into you know booking and playing and really ramping up through the rest of the summer.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where can everybody find you online?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, stackallions.com, it's uh all of the socials, uh Instagram, Facebook, TikTok now.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, anywhere out there you can find us.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, you can listen to everything on you know, Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, all that crap.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's uh yeah.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the next big thing is the the video that comes out on Tuesday, which shockingly, hopefully it nobody really realizes, but I shot it all on an iPhone, the new iPhone 13.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it turned out what I think is pretty cool.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: So like our entire budget for this music video was$58.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: I paid$58 to rock for a camera to rent some lights, and I just shot it all myself.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I had our buddy uh Dave who helps manage the band.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: He uh shot some of it and the rest, and I just edited it all in Premiere Pro myself.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the next one we're gonna do, I'm gonna let someone else do all the shooting and editing because it was highway.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: One of those things where I gotta take a step back and let someone else do it.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it turned out really cool.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm really excited.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome, dude.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: We gotta do this again.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: For sure, man.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: We gotta get all those other fuckers you play with to do this with you and do this in multi-round here.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it would be cool if we could find a time where we could actually do it all in person.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: All like the whole band of you sit down, they'd be ready, have some beers, hang out.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing the podcast, sir.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: The world is a better place with you in it, man.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you, brother.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for everything.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: I can't uh wait to listen to this and share with everybody, man.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: You're awesome.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to totally fanboy out, but I have been hyped on that song since last week, since they released it.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: I even played it for my wife a few times and said how proud I was of my friends.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Go check it out.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: Take me away by Stack of Lions.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's another song of theirs off the White Lightning album that I love.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Run Your Mama.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out right now.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you give Stack of Lions a follow on all forms of social media.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: There are website links there, StackOfLions.com.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you give me a follow on all forms of social media and give me a five-star review on Apple Podcast app.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And now you can also rate me on Spotify and Facebook.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: The summer is eating up.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So are the guests of Cog on the Mike.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you are interested in being a guest on the show, shoot me an email, cot on the mic at gmail.com, or just hit me up through one of my social media profiles.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: This has been caught on the mic with Michael Clark.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.