Latest / Carson's Corner: Entrepreneurship & Investing / Mobile Home Parks, Apartments, Oil & Gas — Angel Williams' Playbook for Diversified Investing

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Mobile Home Parks, Apartments, Oil & Gas — Angel Williams' Playbook for Diversified Investing · Carson's Corner: Entrepreneurship & Investing

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone that skill says they're gonna scale really fast, red flag back up.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_07: Stop.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Meet Angel Williams, founder of Real Estate Investing Rock and managing partner at Loren Capital, empowering aspiring investors through education, passive income, and multifamily real estate.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Scaling really fast isn't sustainable and it tends to get away from you.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_04: You're never gonna get perfect.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: You know, most people that don't do oil, they walk in and they're like, oh, we'll just tuck a hole in the ground and oil will come up and I'll be rich.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's just like the TV show, uh Beverly Hill building.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: You know, going forward, I think oil is something a lot of people have done just because real estate kind of took a down market.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's been a learning experience for a lot of people.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think people will stay in oil and gas if they've been successful in it.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there is some movement now coming back into multifamily for people that were paying attention.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I think that there are people out there literally restacking their capital stack and going back and purchasing their own properties at a discount.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: That just seems so scammy to me.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like who would really do that?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_04: Multifamilies had a hard time, you know.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think uh if you can find a good deal as part of the problem, I think it's impossible to find a good deal.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't have said this a few years ago.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's probably smarter to go wider now instead of deeper.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just because if you're looking across asset classes, you can see more opportunity, which is why like I we never gave up our single family homes.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, if we need money, we can do a cash out refund or wings one.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, that is that's our store of value.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, where do you uh see real estate going?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: One of the reasons why we chose to do the development for the mobile home community is because that's welcome to the Carsons Quarter.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: All right, I'm sitting here with Miss Angel Williams, fellow Baylor Bear alumni, and uh longtime investor.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, her family and husband and all parties involved have done multifamily doing mobile home parts, development, all kinds of stuff.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: She's done oil and gas, um, some success there, some failures, kind of like me.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: I've had some good wells and also had some bad ones.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: So a lot to uncover about you know what she has going on in her life.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: She also does uh coaching and mentorship for investors that are looking to get involved in uh real estate.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: Angel, how are you doing?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing pretty good.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: Pretty good.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: Not not bad for a Thursday.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, not bad.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_04: So uh what do you have going on?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we actually just switched property management companies, and for anyone that has never switched property management companies, it's a ride.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I would suggest not poking the bear as your regional walks out the door.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: I learned this from experience.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it made it very difficult to get any of our financial records or anything else.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um we actually had to get a lawyer involved.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um wow.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do not poke the bear, friends.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: As enticing as it may be, do not poke the bear.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so what do you mean by that?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_04: So when a syndication has their property management company and you're kind of unhappy with them, don't what do you mean by poke the bear?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like piss them off or while you're in the middle until they're gone, you know, don't piss them off.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I don't know.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: As she was walking out, I was like, I just want to thank you for your professionalism during this transition.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_07: All right.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: So don't poke the bear.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just let them walk.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, gotcha.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because it made it difficult for us to get some of our records.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I guess they used something called Blue Moon to bring all the records electronically back in to whatever new system you're gonna be using.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we didn't get those for quite some time.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which made collections kind of hard because we didn't have contact information for anyone.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so rent was still going to the old PMC.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_04: So And that was just one problem.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, you know, that that goes to, you know, most people that are outside of real estate, you know, there's a lot of problems that you experience when you actually are in real estate, and it's a lot harder in real life than it looks like on LinkedIn.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, property management and finding a good one's always a challenge.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if you had one of your students, you know, you hear people like, oh, we can scale this really easy.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: We just hire outside property management.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then you talk to other people who are like, no, do it yourself because you're not gonna be happy.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, what do you what would you suggest?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_04: Or just be careful on who you hire.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Number one, anyone that scale says they're gonna scale really fast, red flag back up.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Stop um, because scaling really fast isn't sustainable.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And it tends to get away from you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've seen that happen with operators, I've seen it happen with property management companies.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as for you're never gonna be fully happy with one, that's true.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but someone else doing it even partially as good as you, it's still somebody else doing it, so you don't have to.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so you kind of have to be okay with accepting some of the lackluster.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so long as you're getting the returns that you want, and so long as you're getting, you know, all the metrics are being met.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um someone that's a little unprofessional on the phone, you kind of gotta let it go.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: You're never gonna get perfect.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as far as starting your own company, ooh, I've talked to so many people about that.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um so where we are in Texas, like to start a third-party property management company, there has to be a broker willing to sign their their broker's license or be a 10% owner.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: So number one, you gotta find that.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And number two, you gotta hope that things don't totally break down before you're finally up and running.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Again, ask me how I know.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you if you don't have clear cut and precise like information going in, you wind up about to get started and they want 51% of the company.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, what?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I came to you with this idea.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: What what?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So um you you just have to be careful about that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um the new property management company we're working with now, um the owner is actually willing to let us start our own company.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I've talked to people who have said, you know, you want you want 500 doors, you want a thousand doors, you want this, you want this.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're gonna manage your own properties, you don't have to have a third-party PMC.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: You can do it yourself.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: The issue is with some lenders aren't happy about that.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: They want you to have a third-party property management company.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: Why is it why do they want you to have third party?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think they want you to be arm's distance from the financial, like from the money coming in from the accounts.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I can think of.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is uh it's a risk inverse action.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, I don't know.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I think about like the pricing on it, there's not a huge margin in PMC.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which PMC is property management companies.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what you've got is if you can build the quantity, and I'm not saying it's scale crazy, but if you can build your quantity, that's where they survive.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not on the margin because the margin is very, very thin.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um but if you do it for yourself, the margin is substantially larger if you're managing your own properties.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think what it comes down to is if you're exceptionally good at managing your own properties, probably do it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're not only gonna get better service, you're gonna save money, but you know, but if you're not really, if that's not your cup of tea, hire somebody else.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, I don't know.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm like, I'm like, what do you outsource and what do you not outsource?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm always like, you know, I have a video editor.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: I I have a video editor, accounting, stuff like that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, I got sick, I was in the hospital, and my yard guy was doing a great job.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then I said I decided I needed to exercise one day, and I let him go, and then like three weeks later I hired him back.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: I said, He's the only one that does a great job.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_04: So if somebody's doing a really good job for you, it's like hard to fire them.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, it's like I think it depends on who you hire.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_04: You talk to some people and they're like, don't ever outsource property management, and that's probably because the first person they hired sucks so bad that they'll never outsource it again.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I think everybody's experience is different in that.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So well, and I think where where I come from with it and where my husband comes from with it too, is we watched our families self-manage and never.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just never.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Never I had like zero poker face.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: If somebody is like really annoying, they're gonna see it in my face.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't mean to, like I try to, I try to have the poker face, but I'm just like Are you really?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is are these words out of your mouth?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just kind of I don't know, it just kind of blows my mind.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Uh no, I understand.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: I have I have uh, you know, some clients, and you look on the back side and you got this big spreadsheet with all these tenants, and I'm like, oh my gosh, my head's gonna explode.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's like kind of like one of those things, if you enjoy that kind of stuff and it's not a problem, it's I don't know.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: It seems very uh intense as far as you know looking at spreadsheets, collecting, keeping track of data and stuff like that.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's one of the issues too, is like if you don't intimately know all of the pieces that go into property management, you're not gonna know who to hire for those roles.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you're bust missing a few seats or missing a few people in seats for a little bit until you figure it out.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so like the other issue is we as humans tend to hire people like us.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you probably don't want me hiring the desk person.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Could I hire could you hire could you have me hiring like the manager or the maintenance guy?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: But probably not the desk manager.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and not because I'm I'm not mean or anything, I just I have a hard time understanding things sometimes.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um like I don't understand how we we put a payment plan together and now we're two weeks in and you still have a major payment.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like why couldn't you be honest with me in the beginning and tell me what was really gonna go on because now you've I feel like you've lied to me.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel wrong.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I feel slided, now I'm angry.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas did you just tell me the truth up front that you weren't gonna pay this month?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: We could have figured something out.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_04: Could have worked out a real plan instead of a fake one.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the thing I don't get.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: The fake payment plan.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody's done the fake payment plan before.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Somebody's mind, yeah, I'll pay you next week.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's pretty good.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's those are the parts of it that that's what I when I say I don't understand, that's what I mean.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just tell me the truth.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna buy your head off.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm gonna be more thankful that you're telling me the truth.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that that's and that's a PMC thing.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that front desk person.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I've I've had really great ones, and I've had not so great ones, and I had one front desk person like literally skip her apartment, wasn't even in the records.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: She hadn't paid rent for at least two and a half months for probably longer.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And when I went to her apartment, I was like, she left everything.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Just everything, just abandon it.
• 12:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: That's kind of crazy.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Down to the liquor in her freezer.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like she left everything.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody leaves their liquor.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: I wouldn't even do that, and I don't drink.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just the only room that was cleaned out was her son's, and he had left for the military, so that actually made sense.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because he was very organized and he'd been in Rotsi, and so that was his thing.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: So you you you run your uh the academy with uh your husband a little bit.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: He does underwriting, you know, you're kind of uh more of a people person.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: You have uh like a chat group every Monday, is it?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: We meet on we have a virtual meetup.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we meet now on Mondays and Fridays.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we have marvelous Mondays and fabulous Fridays.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really wanted to start getting myself getting in the habit of looking at what I want to accomplish on Monday.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then being able to follow up with somebody on Friday to say how I did with that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that was my personal goal.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people got intimidated by it.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people stopped attending.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: There was actually one yep where I said, Hey, does anybody want to talk about how they did with their goal this week?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And two people dropped off.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like And my husband like DM'd me and he was like, I thought you weren't gonna talk about that because it makes people scared and they leave.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Well, they should be able to say, like, I got half of it done, or say say why they didn't do it, you know?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_04: And why we'll get it next time.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: It goes back to that trust piece, right?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that just tell me the truth piece.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because like what I told about, what I talked about was like how things went for me at summer camp.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I had said I was gonna talk to these people, I was gonna do this, I was gonna do that.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I was able to come back on Friday, like it was the following Friday, and be like, whoa, I am never going to talk poorly about anyone that says that this is the thing to do.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have poo-pooed it for years and years and tried it out, and it was amazing.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Actually having a plan and having a goal because I just like to go to events and talk.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I like to I just like to go and talk and have fun, have a drink or two, and then come back home.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really hard for me to say, oh wait, no, I want to talk to three people about my coaching program.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk to three people about X, Y, and Z.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: I want to help two people solve problems.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like going in with those goals and coming out with those goals, most of them met, some of them not, but like going in with that mindset was completely different.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I never I never wanted it to be successful.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it was.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: And it was.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's still you're still doing it and going going Monday and Friday.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_04: So um you you um bring people in, you know, basically, you know, have goals and all that, get people involved in real estate.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_04: I know uh Jason's heavily involved in underwriting, which I think is the most boring part of uh real estate.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very necessary part of real estate, you know.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's like you have to have guardrails, like does this deal pencil?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: You know, where does it get in trouble?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, does it work on paper?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: But real life's never exactly how it is on paper.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: Those are just guardrails you're putting in place with the spreadsheet behind it.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why it's a living, breathing document.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be updating it as you go.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can't just use the underwriting to put in the LOI.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually your plan.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, well, I know.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, is it's like, well, this this didn't end up this way, so you have to adjust it and all that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: So here's here's here's how it happened.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_04: But um, so where do you uh see real estate going?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: We're kind of like at a crossroads, I feel like.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the interest rates have been high, you know, they might come down, they might not, you know, eventually there's gonna have to be some people let go of some properties, stuff like that, you know.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: How do you see the future of real estate shaping up?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: That's a tough question.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so one of the one of the reasons why we chose to do the development for the mobile home community is because I think that there's a real need for photo affordable home ownership.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're looking at that resident-owned model that's kind of the modern model for the mobile home community, you're giving families an opportunity to be uh homeowners that probably never have had that opportunity before.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And like with our development, with where it is, it's gonna be in the best school district in Waco.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um graduated from that school district.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I used to go to UIL competitions to that school district, like it's a good school.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um these are kids that wouldn't have been able to go to that school.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna be able to get a different educational opportunity than what they would have been able to receive otherwise.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_04: So that's kind of that's it's kind of interesting because a lot of the uh apartment um, you know, multifamily in like Austin or other places, Nashville, Phoenix.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I don't know how it is in Dallas actually.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_04: I should know that, but in that market, but a lot of it got way overbuilt, you know, and it's like if you're building at that base level affordable housing, because that is the most affordable housing is actually mobile home, is um, you know, there's always gonna be a need for it.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: Can it get overbuilt?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but way less likely, you know.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, NIMBY, nobody wants it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: What's that?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: NIMBY, nobody wants it in their backyard.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well, yeah, and the institute ask me how I know.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: So but yeah, I mean, like a lot of the uh th those type of uh assets, you know, you don't have this big institutional capital coming in and spending 500 million in a market just developing the crap out of it to where it's just gets way overextended, and you're like, holy moly, how did this happen, you know, and then you know, all of a sudden it's 15% vacancy, and you're like, wow, I don't know.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's kind of what's gone on around here lately.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, and I think not only is there a lot of new product coming online, it's coming online with huge concessions.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the only thing that's actually helping your C property is that your demographic most likely can't pass the income and credit requirements necessary to get in that class A because they're probably pretty darn close to the same price right now.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I know.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I saw some the other day.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's like they're giving away like three months free right up the road from me.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, holy moly.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: And these are like brand new townhome style things with the upstairs, a garage.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, holy moly.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm thinking, you know, home ownership's probably not it.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_04: I need to go get one of these apartments.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'll probably not, but you know, over the long haul.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: I was I'm just thinking, like, wow.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: You know, actually what I've thought about is I think there's gonna be a Super Bowl here in uh Nashville, and I'm thinking about renting my house out during it.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Figure out where you're gonna store your stuff now.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_04: Or, you know, put put uh you know, two by four locks on one room and you know, have it wardened off or something.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Something, you know.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how people do it, but I I know plenty of people that do.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know how.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: So is so going forward, are you gonna mainly focus on uh mobile home communities and kind of stay steer we're uh away from uh multifamily or I don't know.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean it's kind of still multifamily, only it's horizontal.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I know we're looking at some of the lie tech options for for our problem child property because it needs help.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I a friend of mine connected me with another guy that he actually used to work for the state in that in that program.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so just kind of bouncing some ideas off of him and seeing what's available.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um actually cool story.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at this AI summit a couple of weeks ago, and I met another Baylor alum.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: He he was at Baylor in the 80s, and he's actually the guy that him and his fraternity brother created the the test to test um Tylenol for cyanide, and then they tested for Mercury.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I thought he was lying to me.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: I looked him up on the Lariat archives.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was him.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it was wild, which the Lariat is the school paper of Baylor, for those of you that don't know.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I thought I was being conned.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, whatever, man.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: He was telling me the truth.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there was a lot of really tech stuff.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: But he loved element style.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: There was a lot of uh really smart kids there, and they'd almost like you could tell like the really smart ones, they kind of Had this gaze in their eyes, like they're like, you know, like I don't know how to explain it.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like they looked at you like you're kind of too normal to be like, you know, talking to me.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you're not weird enough for me.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, what's going on in your head, you know?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: And like the the the unibomber or something.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't know.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm wondering.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering if there won't be more information available for LaTeX.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like, so my one friend who I was actually at the event with, she was like, never gonna do LaTeX again.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then Mark, this guy over here, is like, I know it's the best thing since last bread.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can sell the tax credits, you can do this, and you buy back the property at pennies on the dollar.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Yeah, what he was talking development, she was talking pre-existing property.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so it's just like, whoa, because I was hearing two different things.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think there just needs to be more information available about Litech because I I think that that's really where we're gonna have to go if we want to continue to help the demographic that's renting from us.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And of course there's different demographics renting from us, but we need to be helping those residents because if we're not keeping residents in the units, we don't have anything to distribute to our investors.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that is a whole nother level.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_04: So just so for people that are listening, when you say LITEC, you're talking about low-income housing tax credit, yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: Tax credit, yeah.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_04: So she's using the acronym.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I know what you're I know what you're referring to, but you know, just for educational purposes, you have a lot of people that are from outside of real estate kind of uh chime in.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_04: But on those, so so like at least if there's a certain percentage that are low income, then basically there's a subsidy which makes the apartment complex like I don't know the percent.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: It's so much more affordable when you run the numbers if it's done in that way.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: So um, but yeah, you get tax credits and all kinds of stuff.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and this is where I kind of don't understand, and I'm trying to meet up with this guy that my friend knows, um, or talk to him on the phone or something, because what the guy at Mark at that event was telling me was that the developer gets the tax credits.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what my other friend was saying was that they didn't get any of the tax credits.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: They were just dealing with all the headache of the paperwork and all of the stuff they had to do to satisfy the government to give them their lie tech designation.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so I didn't I don't understand what the benefit is if you're not developing the property.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I've looked into it some and it's honestly it's really confusing.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm hoping to get a hold of this guy that my friend set up an email meet with us and just kind of I think the the credits ongoing.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_04: I think there's part of it that's part of the development, but I think part of it is you get ongoing.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, like Section 8 and stuff like that.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about all that, but you know, so we have Section 8 residents.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_04: Do you get tax credits on that?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: With the Section Eight residents, um there's a section of local municipal government that sends us a check for them.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_07: Huh.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: At different percentages of their rent based on what their income is.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's kind of crazy.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: So um so you're doing um mobile home parks.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: I love the investment.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: So you you and uh Jason are developing a mobile home park there in Waco.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: And um you've done oil and gas a little bit.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_04: What tell me a little bit about that?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: How was your experience?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: I know you've had some success and some failures, and you know, um maybe not necessarily failure, failure, uh lack of communication failure.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So we we have oil and gas in two ways.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um number one, my husband's family has land in West Texas, that they own the land, they own the minerals, they own it all.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that is a very different experience than when you're investing in like a syndication for a well or two.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um the biggest difference in my opinion, is that you you're when you do the syndication, you're basically divvying up the leftovers after everybody else is paid.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's like the big difference.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot less risk when you're getting more than one or two wells.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so if you're able to risk a pool with a group and even if it's in a producing field, you don't know if it's gonna hit.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: So your best bet is to just get more than a couple.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And most most of the syndications that I've seen, this may not be true across the board, but most of the ones I've seen are for one or two wells.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it you're you're going into it as a JV partner.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's just a little bit different.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think a lot of it is is people don't understand just because a well is producing right now doesn't mean it produces tomorrow.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_04: And like those things can take on water or gas or, you know, depending where it's located, sand, you know, just all kinds of stuff.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: The pressure can change.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but there's stuff that's lower risk than others, like you said.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know, some of it it's like, okay, if you have a field and there's more wells, it's the likelihood of success goes up.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_04: But, you know, it's it's it's tough, just like anything.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's it's a bus, it's a real business.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know, there's equipment that's expensive, and it's like, okay, at the end of the day, you're trying to turn a profit.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: And most people that lose money in oil actually produce oil.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they it's not because of a dry well.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, sometimes it's because of a dry well, but a lot of times they produce oil, it's just not enough to cover all the overhead because it's so expensive to operate, you know.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or as the drill's going down, it takes the path of least resistance and you pull it back on and then it goes off again, and you pull it back on, and it goes off again, and you have to abandon because you're spending, you know, so much money every day, and you know the pocket's there, and you just can't get to it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a dry hole that isn't even really a dry hole.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to walk.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: Or you sit there and spend millions.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: Some some people do that too, you know, and you know, keep I had a friend, I had a friend that went through that.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, his son-in-law actually spoke at my event and said, and before we recorded, he was like, you know, I work in oil and gas and I would never invest in oil and gas.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: But like his father-in-law has been doing he's cracking drilling, been doing it forever and ever.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then his father-in-law, so I guess it's his mother-in-law, his mother's sister is married to Burke Royalty, which is one of the biggest oil producers in this region.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's just really funny that he's surrounded by people in oil and gas.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, Yeah, nope.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Wouldn't do it, but I do have some houses.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: It it it is a rip more risky business, you know.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's not all bad, but you know, I'm just well, what do they say?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's a deplenishing or a diminishing resource.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So every day you have less of the resource.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to make sure it's priced out right so that it's I guess it's kind of like retirement.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta price it out right to make sure that there's gonna be enough oil left to continue playing out for the future.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, you don't know how much is in there.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the geographical studies show.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't know if it's beyond a mountain or there's a little phase where everybody and their mom was, you know, basically syndicating it and then it kind of died off.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: I'd I'd say probably half of those projects were successful, if that.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, that's about my ratio.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I I've had some real losers and I've had some winners too.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it hasn't been all bad, but I'm I'm honest about it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, dude, that one was so bad.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it just didn't do anything, you know, had it had problems and all that.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: So you can have problems with the equipment, all kinds of stuff.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, a lot of operational problems can happen.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, we have one in East Texas.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually two.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it was they they did a well on each side of a pre-existing well that had been capped off.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so well, absolutely there, but the bigger companies, they hit a point where splitting the water in oil is no longer effective or efficient for them.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's too cost-prohibitive.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they cap it and move on.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have these little more, more amble firms, more flexible firms that can come in and they can still extract the oil from the water and still make it successful and make it profitable.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what happened in this case.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so two well two new wells went down on either side of the previously capped well.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: One hit, one kind of hit, yeah.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the checks have been getting smaller because it's a diminishing or deplenishing resource.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and things are happening in the economy too.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: But you just have to know what you're getting into.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and like it doesn't really make that much sense to people, but some of those wells, like if they're separating the water, and then if there's a certain amount of water in a well, I mean, you can get into$10,000 and$50,000 electric bills depending on how much water you're pulling up.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_04: So for like some of the bigger companies, it costs a lot more for them to drill and pay employees and all the stuff they do, so they'll just they'll move on, you know, and then a smaller operator can mess with it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, there's real money going in behind some of those bigger companies and actually, you know, taking advantage of it.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So but you know, I think abilities to store the water too, because you don't just store the oil, you have to store the water too, because the water's gross.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's all chemical latent.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not like I go to the lake, oh, there's my oily water.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has to be stored, it has to be treated.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that there's a bigger process to it than just separating them and dumping it.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you either have to haul it off or you have to inject it back into the ground, and then you know, all that's regulated by the and you have to do it up to railroad commission regulatory stuff, and you know, so there's there's quite a bit to it.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_04: You know, most people that don't do oil, they walk in and they're like, oh, we'll just poke a hole in the ground and oil will come up and we'll be rich.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's just like the TV show, uh Beverly Hills.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, I just I think um, you know, going forward, I think oil is something a lot of people have done just because real estate kind of took a a down market.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's been a learning experience for a lot of people.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I had previously done oil, uh, going back, you know, decades or whatever, not decades with an S, at least a decade, but you know, just being from Texas and all that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it's something that was very familiar to me.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: But a lot of other people you'd see jump in and you're like, yeah, they probably shouldn't be doing that.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_04: You know, just because the they don't really understand what they're doing is what I'm getting at.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the ones that understand the risk and what they're getting into, more power to you, you know, go ahead and you know, drill a well.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: But there's just so many more risk factors like we're talking about, like the cost of the cost of doing it, the operations and just everything involved.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's a lot.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't I don't think people I don't think people are sharing the risks.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: People are like, oh, it's already in a producing field.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well Yeah That means absolutely zero.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: I could put a well right next to a producing well and it not hit.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: But it's I I don't think that that's being expressed.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't I don't know that people understand that you could actually be involved in the investment in many different phases.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: You could be involved in the investment in the equipment, you could be involved in the investment on and leasing the land, like you can be involved in the investment at many different layers and at different many different like performing or non-performing roles.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: So there are people that actually go out there and buy non-performing wells at a discount to see if they can turn them and make them work again.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so like that's that's when you have the investment in new new equipment or new ideas, a new, I don't know, drilling methodology.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um these different things that you can do, and I don't know that people understand all the different steps because I don't think they're being told.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think it's I don't think it's malicious.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just a lack of knowledge.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's a lack of knowledge.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's just people don't understand it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's they have basic understanding of it, and they're, you know.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_04: I I had a uh guy tell me basically, and I always told investors that, you know, everybody knows everything until they get three miles below the surface.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's like they have an idea.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_04: They know that there's hydrocarbons down there with the well logs and stuff like that.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: So they know oil's down there, but they don't know exactly how things are gonna react as far as like water and stuff like that, how much of it is really gas.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can get into some of those telescoping well logs, but I don't know.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_04: I just I've seen too much stuff happen to where I'm like, they really they know, but they don't know.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: You know, they know they're but they don't know.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like, uh, for example, I had a well one time and it, you know, had so much gas and it like shot up 30 feet and they had to tap it real quick and you know, all this stuff.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, did they know that was gonna happen?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_04: No, they didn't.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's another funny story.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So everybody thinks of the Derek with the oil spurting out of it.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that actually happens, that's a big problem.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's a mistake.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: That is not a goal.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's not supposed to shoot in the air.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's not supposed to shoot up in the air.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: But no, that's I think I think people will stay in oil and gas if they've been successful in it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there is some movement now coming back into multifamily for people that were really paying attention.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but at the same time, I think that there are people out there literally restacking their capital stack and going back and purchasing their pro their their own properties at a discount.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that just seems so scammy to me.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like who can who would really do that?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_05: Like Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't even like what we were talking before we started recording.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even I can't in my heart of hearts go to my current investors and ask them to invest with me in anything else right now because I know that they're invested in my problem child and I need to fix my problem child first.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_04: No, multifamilies had a hard time, so it's one of those where I think some of it's you know the market'll work itself out, and I think that still has some way a ways to go.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I think um there's some if you can find a good deal is part of the problem.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's impossible to find a good deal.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've done it both as a broker and an investor.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I'm a broker right now, and you know, I got into brokerage and people are basically like, oh, you have to specialize.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: I said, well, if I was gonna specialize, I have a ton of experience raising money in multifamily.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: I know a ton about it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: I know how to underwrite it.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know this, this, and this.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: I can determine a cap rate for a market, whatever you need to value it.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: But at the same time, it's like if I specialize, I'm not gonna find any deals because I can't find them as an investor.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you can't find them as an investor, how are you gonna find them as a broker?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I just I don't know.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: There's only like 38 transactions in the entire state of Tennessee uh that are multifamily this through this half of the year.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, okay, how many of those were of a good size?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they consider multifamily more than five units.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like most of those deals are like 900,000 or 2.2 million.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like if you're a broker, it's, you know, there's not enough deals to specialize in anything.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: So if you're an investor or broker, I just I think it depends on the market, though.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's some markets where there's, you know, if you're like in New York City or somewhere like that, I could see specializing in certain things, you know, because there's I don't know, there's certain places where there's a hundred thousand or fifty thousand investment grade properties within this little area, and you're like, okay, you could specialize, but not not in Tennessee, not in Waco, you know.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I think you're smart by looking at you know the mobile home and stuff like that's what I'm getting at.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's having that broad base knowledge um is gonna be really helpful.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um I would I wouldn't have said this a few years ago.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think it's probably smarter to go wider now instead of deeper.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um just because if you're looking across asset classes, you can see more opportunity.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um which is why like I we never gave up our single family homes.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, if we need money, we can do a cash out refi or a swing stop one.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is that's our store of value because we're we're in a little bit of a cash crunch right now.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_07: Everybody is, yeah.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like we we we've been looking at doing a refi on one of them.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like we have options with that because we own it just us.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: They are ours.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: None of our money is none of our original money is still tied up in them.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Everything in our residential portfolio is exp is um was it uh infinite returns.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: Every single property in our residential portfolio is.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we have options there that people don't have when they come into commercial multifamily as an LP or a GP.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just don't have the same mobility of cash.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I like having my residential stuff.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever I meet somebody that's like, I'm getting rid of all my single families to go into multifamily, I'm like, oh, you should be able to do that.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get rid of all.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, keep it keep three of them or something.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: They can be a headache.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, depending on which ones, I mean, you know, and who your renters are, but sometimes they're not a headache.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've I've seen it both ways where a property just you know does well for 15 years.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_04: You don't never hear from the tenants hardly at all, you know.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like you forget.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Since 03.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's never really sat empty for very long.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's always got some like we've always got good residence in it.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've never had a lot of payment laps, like and we use a property manager, but it's it's been a very solid investment.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a couple of houses here that have been absolute solid investments.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: We've got four here.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I prefer two of them over the other two, but they're all rented.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: They all have residents in them.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: What is what I can say about my apartments.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_04: So what's Waco like compared to when it what it was like you know back in the day?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: Well, you you're you're about my age, I think.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: What like like late 90s, early 2000s era?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it was just kind of like it just started, they just started redeveloping the campus back then.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um McLean Stadium was not there.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: I drew I drove past that like gosh, like eight years ago, I think.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a while, so yeah, no.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, let's see.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: When I left, they had just built the new SLC, and that's I had a grad citizenship in there.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was in there for both my years of my graduate degree.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that was wild.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Had the big wall, the big rock climbing wall, and had nice that was our new thing.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we still had like the Hankamer School of Business, and we still had that parking garage, and a lot of that has changed now.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: My old apartment is gone.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: They've built up some other big, huge thing for students.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: You know, the house that I lived in, they barreled it down and they put in an apartment complex on that little piece of land.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_04: I can't even remember where it was, but I drove past it.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, holy moly.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_04: I remember my roommate, he was kind of crazy, and I I don't care if he hears me talking about.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: I saw he ran for like political office, actually.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, holy holy moly, uh he's running for office.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_04: But anyway, it was like one in the morning and he's up on the billboard because it was right off 35.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_04: And I was going like, what in the hell is this guy doing?
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I thought we were gonna have the cops called on and never came out, so I was like, golly, man.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_04: He was kind of crazy, you know.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: And now he's running for office.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man, yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, he he was nuts.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when I I want to say they had started construction on the new law school, but it wasn't fully constructed when I finished, because I finished my master's in two thousand two.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um or they may have just opened it.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: That the second year of my it might have been they opened it in.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: Nice, yeah.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_04: That law that law spoke.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: It was very nice, right off the river and all that.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: I've never been there.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I've been to the museum.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um my father in law was one of the he was a professor at Baylor.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was one of like the curators at the museum there.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was kind of cool.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_04: What what it what is he a professor in?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um he was a professor for um museum studies.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay was in preservation.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um and when I say his specialty, like um he got his doctorate in one of those S countries, I forget which one, Sweden, Switzerland.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I don't really remember.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um but like the king and queen showed up to his graduation.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he was he was the foremost expert in the US in some of his classes.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: So he actually got to teach his own doctoral classes.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_05: Wow.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because he wasn't the foremost expert expert in the US for sure, possibly the world.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, his his preservation techniques were he he had he had some really cool techniques that he developed that were brand new and nobody else was doing.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_04: Awesome.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of really smart people.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm trying to think.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_04: I had some friends from there that just did really well, like you know, like brainchilds.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't know.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Just flew through everything.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: So um I just like hearing about people from there.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's a lot of fascinating people that have done really well.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like that guy that I met that he was the one that created the test for the outbreak of cyanide in Thailand all in Chicago.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: I I remember Dr.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: Rich, the uh finance professor.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: I liked him a lot, you know, and he'd tell us like alumni stories and you know, like what different people were doing, and you know, there was a couple of them out of the finance thing that like figured out this arbitrage, you know.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: It's like the difference between shares trading on different markets, and they were like raking in money back in the day, you know, and they they like developed this computer program back.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, this is like in the early 2000s, so I mean uh today it's a lot harder to get by with, you know, but because everything's so much more connected, but you could triangular arbitrage, especially like with foreign currencies.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, but the the gap is like this compared to like back then.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah, they were probably like pulling in money left and right, so it's like a like an ATM machine.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty wild stuff the way things have gone, the way things have just evolved and then circled back over the years.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: So when my grandparents got involved in real estate in the late 70s, early 80s, the federal funds rate in 81 was 21%.
• 46:43
  unknown: Wow.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of just keep that in your head.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: Now overall purchase prices weren't as high.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but the interest rates were double digit insane.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when my grandparents got started.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so can it be done in a high interest rate environment?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: It can be.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think the difference here is that we've also got a money supply problem.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in my opinion, one or two things has to happen.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Interest rates have to go up, or you have to do something to shrink up the money supply.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you're gonna have to like I don't even know.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, something's trickier today than it was back then.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: I just but all the money's concentrated too, and it's kind of like it's weird because the smaller syndicators are ha having a lot of trouble raising money, so that's kind of like but then you have these bigger ones that want to buy, but they can't.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_04: I it's just like this market that's been distorted in a way, you know.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_04: So you know, I think the money supply is weird.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's but it because it's it's lopsided.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_04: They talk about the K-shaped economy and stuff like that, you know.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I was so I was gonna look up this book.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's probably the best book I had.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember how to spell this guy's name.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there it is.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because I sent him a picture of it, and so I'm looking for that, and now I can't find it.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, dang it.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_07: You're all right.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, okay, so I was talking to Dan Hanford.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and Dan was like, You need to get this book.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're marketing to the wrong people.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't read all of it.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: My husband read all of it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did not read all of it, but I read like the first four pages and I was like, holy moly.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: Here it is.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: The no BS No BS marketing to the affluent by Dan Kennedy.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: And this right here is like you're you're marketing to people that are like you.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know your own financial situation.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be marketing to the people that don't bat an eye at 15, 20, 50, 100,000.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's who you should be marketing to.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: And once you get out of the mindset of I can only raise from my friends and family.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I agree with that too.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's the game changer.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that book is I don't know what edition it's in now.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: We got ours a long time ago.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that was probably some of the best advice I ever got from anyone.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_04: No, I don't disagree with that.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_04: Well, so I have investors that, you know, have capital to to deploy, but it's, you know, they're most of my current investors, they're they, you know, their minimums are like, they're not going to do it unless it's at least five million.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, the smaller investors and stuff like that, it's, you know, not that I dislike them.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's just that I don't know.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_04: But but you know, the bigger investors, it's one of those things, if you open your eyes a little bit, it's different.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: And but the problem is, is, you know, there's like this something wrong with the market.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like the prices aren't quite good enough for the bigger investors to move yet.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I you know what I'm saying?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't know what it is.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think there's there's some fear there too.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of the bigger investors have lost big money.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so there's some fear there, I believe.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just kind of just guessing.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: So they're they're a little bit gun shy.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and there probably is some there's some decrease in pricing that still needs to take place.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't disagree there.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's still I believe there's still a lot of volatility, especially in multifamily right now, because again, you've got those class A's giving out concessions, making them the same price as your class C's, definitely the same price as your class B's.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a weird, it's a weird place to be at right now.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_04: It'll be interesting to, you know, see where it all goes and all that.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_04: So well, Angela, I it's been great having you.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: I, you know, I'd probably talk to you for two hours about different stuff, you know.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: I I don't disagree on the bigger investor stuff.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, you know, if you open your eyes, but I've actually been looking at, you know, different stuff.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_04: It's just hard to find a deal that'll pencil.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then when I get one, I'm like, oh, I get excited.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: And then you're like, I hope nothing's wrong with it.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: But um Jason was looking at a deal just the other day, and he was like, Oh, they're trying, they're trying to do this as a lie tech, but he went to the community standards, I guess, and he was like, This isn't even what the this isn't even what the county says.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what the county is saying they can do for life.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're like, something's gotta be really.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: Something's gotta be screwed up with it, and you're like, okay.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then I don't want to take it to my bigger investors right out of the gate.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm, you know, but you want to get them involved early in the process because it takes time to absorb, you know, hey, I got this.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll, you know, I might throw out some things to them and say, hey, I'm looking at this, what do you think?
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_04: And and see where it goes.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: But what's the best way?
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think you should uh leave your um your networking events that are online uh that you do Monday.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_04: What how how do people find you and you know, maybe attend one of those?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you do great networking events, you got a good group of you know, I I think uh Dan goes to it regularly and a lot of other people.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, um, so we've actually got a community.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's the AcademyPresents.mn dot co, I think.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's our it's it's a no-cost community.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could join the community there and you'll get links to everything we do.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or just look me up.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on LinkedIn, Angel Williams.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that my picture has my blue hair and my purple hair, and I'm wearing a shirt that has my face on it.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Lots of Jason faces on it.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um when you see that picture, you'll be like, oh, that's her.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: So and because I'm I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she uh posts regularly and all that.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, your community isn't like some high pressure thing where they're gonna immediately start asking for money.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's a more of a hangout for uh investors to get to know each other, talk about deals, what are the problems that y'all are having?
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not I'm not directing that towards you.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody's got problems.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't matter how much money you have.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, people with more money have more problems sometimes, you know.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a way to talk through, you know, financing difficulties, things with tenants you're having, uh, problems you have with investors, anything you know, it's um entrepreneurs helping entrepreneurs.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we we talk about the ups and the downs.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's yeah, it's really nothing's off limits.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's not all roses, right?
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: It is not.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_04: Don't hook the bear.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_04: That started off good, you know.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_04: How do you fire your property manager without pissing them off?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_04: You don't.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: You don't.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_04: They're gonna be pissed either way, but you know, just don't rub it in.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_04: Alrighty.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_04: Great having you.