Latest / The Director's Chair Network / Heat (Part 1)
Transcript
- 0:01 [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] 0:07 [Music] heat heat 0:17 [Music] 0:23 [Applause] 0:30 [Music] welcome to another episode of the Director's Chair Network 0:37 show/podcast slash whatever this thing is called this is the season however that I Ryan I'm covering the Michael Man 0:44 films and with me today I have first time guest co-host for the Michael Man 0:50 series but longtime co-host partner the many projects I've done specifically 0:56 Craig you covered three different films from Edwick's career but you're with me 1:01 today from Michael Man's career how you doing i'm good thanks and apologies to people on the video my camera is not 1:08 working we could not get it to work but we do get this sort of Michael Man inspired avatar for me it's the picture 1:15 I use for my music but it's got like that blue it's fitting for this because 1:20 heat some of the night scenes have that bluish tint and man is always very stylized so the avatar kind of works for 1:27 the video folks it does it does look very Michael man 1:33 heat for sure so the aesthetic is there replace the keyboard with a like a M50 or something and and we're there 1:40 so we are we're covering a big film today and I I'll just say this up front if you're listening to this because you 1:46 are a heat nerd or fanatic or those things we're not here to give people 1:53 something they don't know so if you're looking for like crazy trivia and all the behindthe-scenes stuff and all 2:00 you're already a Heat fanatic at that point so you already know everything this is just two friends talking about 2:06 Heat talking about Michael man giving our thoughts and stuff like I always want to make that clear because I don't want people coming in here thinking 2:12 they're going to tell me something I don't already know because I'm a heat fanatic but if you just want to hear two friends talk about the movie and our 2:18 thoughts on it this is the place to do it i will say this too this is part one of five so what I mean by that dear 2:23 listener is I've got five different co-hosts coming on to Cover Heat because it's such a big film one it's not short 2:31 two there's just so much that goes on in it and I would like to hear different voices and opinions and thoughts on the film in 2:39 general but when I have my co-host on like Craig today we're going to chronological order of the film in that 2:45 we're only going to speak directly like specifically to the first 34 minutes of the film and it's going to be about 30 2:52 to 34 minutes per guest so I think everyone's tracking but of course I want to hear Craig i want to hear your thoughts generally speaking when did you 2:58 first see the film we'll get into all that stuff just the broad strokes before we talk about a couple scenes for the 3:03 first part of the film i advocated for something special for Heat so I'm glad that you decided on a format that pays 3:10 this movie the podcast respect it deserves absolutely so what Craig's referring to 3:16 is after the five episodes of Heat are released and listened to by the public I 3:22 am taking from all said five co-hosts they're going to share their thoughts and feelings on the final shootout scene 3:29 of the film because that of course is the big we all talk about everyone knows that scene and I want to hear everyone's 3:35 thoughts that was Craig's idea we figured the last person shouldn't be the only person that gets to talk about that part and that's a fair statement and 3:41 that'll be like a bonus episode really is going to be six episodes how long that six episode will be it might not be 3:46 very long it could just be 2 minutes 3 minutes of whatever the co-host wants to share regarding that final sequence and 3:51 I will share my thoughts on that sequence when I cover it with the co-host i guess it'll be the four that 3:57 missed out we'll get to talk about it and we'll we'll pack the You know what I'll probably do Craig i'll probably even just insert that into the actual 4:03 I'll say "Hey now let's listen to the four hosts that missed this part of the shootout." And then we end I do want to 4:08 preface this by saying that if we had recorded this a month ago this 4:13 discussion might be slightly different in the fact that since you started planning this podcast Val Kilmer has 4:19 passed away yeah uh and this movie is such a phenomenal showcase of that dude's talents i'm sure we're going to 4:26 spend time talking about Val but I just wanted to frontload it by saying it's it's really interesting that even a 4:32 month ago this conversation probably would have been different very well said yeah that's true i'm I'm 4:39 glad he died before before we record only no cuz then you listen back and we're talking about him as if he's alive 4:45 and people are like geez when did they record this that's true that's true now it will be evergreen from the time of 4:51 his death onward yeah for sure okay so let's get into it i want to get first off because this is your first time guesting on this season the Michael Man 4:58 season and you will be coming on again i believe you're covering is it inside man with me is that you no it's the Insider 5:06 yeah the Insider sorry cigarette movie yeah that's right another Pacino movie too i didn't even realize that i'm doing 5:12 the That's right the two Pacino films in his filmography is that what it is is the Insider or the Insider Man boy I got 5:19 the two mixed up in my head now the inside man's the Denzel Washington bank robber movie that's right oh man all 5:25 right you're right the Insider that's right russell Crow and Pacino that's right oh it's funny i was so excited cuz 5:31 I got Inside Inside inside Man cuz that's the one with Jodyie Foster in it yeah oh no have you seen The Insider 5:39 i've seen both i just got my brain look I'm a Michael man fan but again I'm not 5:44 a fanatic mean I've seen all his Actually that's not true i'm now seen all of his films but I just got It's 5:49 funny if you were to ask me two minutes ago is Jodyie Foster in a Michael Man film it's good that we had this 5:55 discussion cuz we would have sat down to record that episode and we'd start talking about two different movies no 6:01 I'm sure I would have figured out cuz I believe Inside Man is that a spikely film it's a spikely joint yes Spikeley 6:07 wait I actually I don't know if that's a spikely joint i think it is it might be a spikely film i don't know how he 6:13 handles that credit oh I see what you're saying i don't know if he wrote that so if he doesn't write the movie does he 6:19 still call it a Spike Lee joint are we going to have to do a Spike Lee season that one might be one worth 6:24 investigating too because he's an interesting director i've seen a lot of his films he doesn't like Quenton 6:31 does he he doesn't like Quentyn's use of race i know he takes 6:37 offense to the fact that Tarantino even though he was raised by a lot of black parental figures and things 6:44 like that i think Spike Lee takes offense to him appropriating black culture maybe in his movies or 6:51 stereotyping black characters but since we're talking about Spike Lee Spike Lee 6:56 recently talked about how important this new Ryan Cooler movie Sinners is oh I 7:03 rarely get out of the house to go see movies but yesterday the timing worked and me and my wife went and saw Sinners 7:09 in IMAX and I got to tell you man as a movie lover that's a movie that reminded me 7:16 why I love movies and as I was watching it I was like man it's like Cougler is I 7:23 think now if you're talking about like directors people talk about Christopher Nolan they talk about Tarantino they 7:28 talk about David Fincher it's seriously time to have a like a conversation about Ryan Cougler as one of the unique and 7:36 innovative voices in film there's a sequence in Sinners that 15 20 years from now I could see 7:44 whoever the hot upand cominging filmmaker is saying I saw Sinners and that scene in Sinners is what made me 7:50 want to become a filmmaker interesting okay yeah go see it in the largest screen you can and the loudest 7:57 sound system you can wow if you're listening to this podcast you probably love movies as much as much as Ryan and 8:02 myself and man it was like a cinematic cleanse almost really really cool okay 8:08 all right all right let's get to heat i'm sorry I took up too much no that's okay everyone's already aware but there might there might be a few listeners who 8:14 aren't aware michael Man actually wrote and directed a TV movie called LA Takedown la Takedown yeah I watched it 8:20 about a year ago oh you did see it i haven't seen it it's interesting it was a TV film so obviously it was made for 8:27 TV it was originally filmed as a pilot for a television series if you can believe it 8:32 of the names in here I recognize Michael Rooker great actor and Daniel Baldwin was in it interesting enough that's 8:40 about it for names oh Xander Berkeley was in i recognized that name he's in 24 what's your over thoughts on the TV film 8:46 or the pilot what was it was it good was it ahead of its time or No it was watchable i think without the connection 8:53 to heat it probably wouldn't be worth talking about but it's interesting to see a filmmaker do 8:59 something realize how great of an idea it is and then revisit it and get a 9:05 second chance to do it and create a masterpiece it's a curiosity at most 9:11 it's something I watched i doubt I'll watch it again all right fair enough okay so it really does 9:17 feel like a a TV pilot made for TV type it's interesting to 9:23 see man play with the idea and then get a chance to really do 9:28 it with a bigger budget the kind of budget it deserves and more importantly the acting 9:35 talent that he has in Heat i think every major character shows up in that first 9:40 34 minutes right yeah and I haven't seen this movie in a spell like I don't watch it yearly or anything i've seen it 9:45 probably I'm at three times fully maybe four maybe but not more than five so 9:51 it's and it's been a few years since I've seen the film i know well enough that when I'm watching it I'm not surprised by any of the major beats like 9:57 the heist and this and that but I forget like dialogue and scenes and Michael Man of course had another chance to write 10:03 and direct and make a full-fledged movie out of this yeah you mentioned the characters we're going to get into them we're going to speak briefly about them 10:09 and they're going to come up again five times as I do this so I'm not going to say too too much per actor but I am 10:15 curious with my co-hosts and I'll say this to all of them just to briefly give me your overall thoughts so I don't bore 10:21 my listeners too much but I want to hear your opinions about some of these actors of just how they did in the film overall 10:26 or what you think of their career like I've done on other movies but if I'm going to have more than one co-host I want to hear other people's thoughts on 10:33 the characters if they come up during their segment of the movie they're going to watch because like you said Craig 10:38 almost all the major players are shown in the first half hour of this film which is crazy i'd forgotten that holy 10:44 smokes not everybody but most of the big ones so right away Robert 10:51 Dairo what are your thoughts of Robert yeah it's insane the level that he is able to 10:58 achieve a as an actor and I I know there's a lot of sort of conflicting 11:04 opinions about Dairo now as the political climate in this country has gotten as hot as it has people aren't 11:11 able to objectively look at artists for their art i'm guilty of it as well but 11:18 it's really amazing to watch Dairo in what you could probably consider his 11:24 prime probably from Good Fellas to this movie were like his prime years as an 11:30 actor in terms of really achieving a high level in his craft this character 11:36 it's such a well-ritten character and Dairo's delivery is so good it It feels 11:43 like you're watching a guy who's been in prison it's pretty remarkable in my opinion and people have a lot of 11:48 different opinions of Dairo and Pacino in terms of how one note they can be sometimes but the directness of Dairo 11:55 works in this movie the work he does with his eyes in this movie there's 12:00 probably a scene that's not in that first 34 minutes that perfectly illustrates it but it's even like the scene where he's in the coffee shop with 12:06 Amy Brenamman the reason that we're talking about this movie other than the fact that you're doing a Michael man 12:11 season is because of the performances in this film yeah it's a showcase of 12:17 incredible performances and and this is the Michael Man season and now that I've done his films I've watched the films of 12:23 course in order because I'm doing the podcast in film order and I'm now seeing 12:29 finally with his fourth theatrical film this was his first one since uh Last Moheakans but I'm seeing definitely the 12:36 way he films it's there i'm seeing it i'm really seeing the Michael Manisms and I don't know if I really noticed it 12:42 before per se i just know that he had a couple films I really enjoyed like Heat and uh Last Moheagans those are films I 12:48 just like genuinely enjoyed but watching his films in order from Thief to now he 12:53 really does have an aesthetic that it's just a really cool I don't know how else to describe 12:58 it it's just like suave cool filming techniques he definitely has a Michael 13:04 Man flare like you can tell he's the director yeah and the other thing about Michael Man that I really really 13:10 appreciate is the authenticity of his approach and that is 13:17 everything from especially a movie like this where you're looking at law enforcement and how they operate 13:24 there's a level of authenticity there and that even boils down to the performances other 13:31 directors might let actors off the hook or might let them be a little bit lazy but you can 13:40 tell watching this movie that the performances are just as important as every other aspect of this 13:46 film and speaking of film aesthetics the way he does the angles and lighting and 13:51 things like that he has a love of a certain sound of music now we talked about with his first two films he used 13:57 the techno German group Tangerine tangerine Dream yeah yeah so he didn't 14:04 use them for Manhunter but I mentioned on that episode that the sound was still there and it's here too it's a different 14:12 conductor altogether very accomplished director named Elliot Goldenthal and he's done a lot of films like from Alien 14:19 3 he did Demolition Man for example Interview of the Vampire just name some after he did Michael Collins A Time to 14:25 Kill he's done some like Batman Robin films he's done a lot of big films these 14:30 aren't small films they've done well at the box office type films but what I'm getting at I guess Michael Man must tell 14:37 the conductor Ellias saying "Hey just so you know go look at Thief go look at the 14:43 keep and manhunter and I want you to mimic that sound because you hear it here do do you not hear yeah yeah and 14:50 much like artists or painters have a color palette this is an oral color palette these are 14:58 the sounds I want you to work within but then there's also bigger cinematic stuff going on in this movie too there is but 15:05 this it's still there and I forgot to mention this with Katie and you haven't heard it yet cuz at the time of this recording it's still being edited but 15:12 there was even with that big cuz as Last Moheakans incredible score it's one of my favorite scores of all time but there 15:18 were scenes in that movie where he still had the theme of I hear it i like I I hear it is I hear the sound so even 15:24 though it's a more classical epics by Trevor Jones used in Last Moheakans 15:29 there were moments in that film where it's like I hear that tangerine dream whatever soundsscape he wanted i guess 15:36 what I'm saying is just like Quent Tino has a thing for feet michael Man has a thing for he's probably the first 15:43 director where I can associate other than maybe Stephen Spielberg and John 15:48 Williams but he's the first director where you hear a theme in his music where it's an actual not just theme 15:55 sorry a soundsscape an audible director signature he definitely he has this oh 16:02 you're there by the way I figured it out what your cap was on your cap's on the 16:08 computer yes are you serious but it's so weird that 16:14 it would give us the error message that it did i hope people stuck around because Craig 16:20 is now visible that's wild like I just looked and I saw that I put my laptop on 16:26 a new stand the other day so when I picked it up my thumb must have That's hilarious it was bugging me cuz this 16:32 laptop's two weeks old so I'm like how can the camera not be working already that's all right 16:38 okay I'm keeping that in by the way cuz I want everyone to see how human No Ryan I apologize because my episodes are so 16:45 effing messy i go on tangents i get off topic 16:51 so I apologize because I always do it and it's something I say I'm not going to do and then I do it anyway 16:57 all right so as we do Craig I'm not going to go plot by plot even though I'm going to show certain scenes again 17:03 you're a Heat fan already if you haven't seen the film go watch the film even 17:08 when I talk about these films and I listen to what I've talked about I'm like I don't even think I've really spoiled anything i think no matter what 17:14 it is you just go watch the film it's an incredible film i do have one guest co-host coming on who do I almost 17:20 hesitated having them come on they don't like the film they actually want to come on and they don't like the film so we'll 17:26 we'll leave it at that and he wants to be last apparently so he can like really I don't know we'll see i won't 17:33 name him because I don't want to shame him we'll let him shame himself when he comes on but I don't know how you could 17:39 objectively not like this film to any kind of degree especially with the 17:44 podcasts that he does anyways okay so yeah I'll echo regarding 17:53 Robert i'll speak more about him with other co-hosts but for now I really like Robert Dairo i've always enjoyed Robert 17:59 Dairo i I've been a quiet Dairo fan my whole life i've never done a podcast about him i've never rushed to the 18:06 theater to see him but I have seen a lot of his films if not the majority of his 18:13 films and I always enjoy them when you see him here aesthetically he just looks so he's 18:20 peak and he's like 52 in this film and he's handsome he's just got that badass 18:25 like badassery to him and he's so stoic and cool this is where I give total credit to Robert despite even some of 18:32 his whatever Meet the Faulers part seven but whatever he earned his stripes with 18:37 films like this so watching this with Robert is what I'm getting at i'm like man he was so cool in this I'd forgotten 18:42 how cool he looks and acts and this was the same year talk about a year for Dairo as Casino 18:51 a very underrated and I love Scorsese by the way i'm very tempted to do a Scorsese season selfishly because even 18:58 though he's not really an undersung director I love his film so much he's Oh he's so good he plays of course the 19:05 baddie the main boss guy Neil McCauley he's a professional thief they live in LA and he and his crew at the beginning 19:11 of the film have one of the more classic scenes at the time we're seeing how good they are that's the whole idea is we're 19:16 seeing how good this crew is robbing an armored car take a look 19:28 [Music] 19:38 so let it play a little bit here but again it's that classic scene of the semi hitting the armored car tipping it 19:44 over i love that inside the vehicle shot of the person the car flipping it's 19:50 really well done i don't know how often that was done this don't forget this film came out 30 years ago so that 19:55 inside the car sequence of being hit and moved I don't know how much that was 20:01 being done before this time do you know Craig i don't but I will say this the 20:06 driver is a stunt performer named Tommy Rosales Jr if you Google him you'll see 20:14 his filmography it's pretty remarkable but he is an indicator when you see him in a scene that something very technical 20:22 from a stunt perspective is about to happen cuz it looks like he's there's no 20:27 CGI here obviously so it looks like he was jostled that makes sense so that was him in the Okay that totally makes sense 20:34 because it's a very impactful excuse the pun scene of him being jostled inside the armor vehicle so it's very effective 20:41 now we're seeing how precise these guys are they got the timer they realize once the call has been made they have exactly 20:46 3 minutes to get out of there before the response comes in and this is a great sequence here again another classic scene when the windows get blown out 20:53 when they blow out the armored car door it's just again a very effective quick little scene of the sound effect that 21:00 the explosion has because that plays into the poor armored car's ears have been blown out in the 21:07 process clear 21:17 [Music] now I love that because there's like that slight delay he hits the switch and 21:25 then the Oenheimer effect but a very quick version of it the sound gets gets sucked in there's no sound it goes and 21:31 then boom i wonder if Christopher Nolan even not stole it but got influence from this scene the idea that everything goes 21:37 silent before the big boom yeah i I can only imagine the amount of technical consultants there were on this film and 21:44 guys like Michael Mann and Christopher Nolan are going to want their [ __ ] to look authentic of course they're going to have the right technical people 21:50 involved even that is a Michael man thing and he started that of course with thief consulting with and working with 21:56 actual thieves and consulting with them and I believe with this film the actors and Michael man false in prison was 22:03 visited other consultants in this area so yeah that's what makes this movie so cool is that again before Christopher 22:09 Nolan was Christopher Nolan you had Michael Mann doing this realism type stuff it felt real and that's why big 22:16 shootout the makes it so aesthetically pleasing to watch because it didn't feel like an action movie it felt like we 22:23 were witnessing Miami Vice is a perfect example of this where Miami Vice the 22:30 film is basically a classic study of 22:35 undercover police work how covers are created that's a very technical film in 22:42 that aspect and you can tell that that's the kind of stuff that interests Michael Man if he's going to do a cop movie it's 22:49 going to be authentic if somebody like Doug watches it they're not going to be able to say "Oh that's bullshit." 22:56 Okay i just want to showcase the scene because we have the one guy yeah langro he goes a little bit bonkers uh on his 23:02 own he's played by an actor named I don't recognize his face kevin Gage is 23:08 his name do you recognize him from anything in particular he does have a familiar looking face but No it's funny 23:14 though because Ted Levine is in this movie before you see Ted Levine you watch this and you're like "Oh is that 23:19 Ted Levine?" And then you're like "No Ted Levine shows up later." But he's got like a Ted Levine look to him i'm 23:25 looking at his filmography it doesn't seem like much came from after this film 23:31 which is really odd and too bad because he does a good job playing a sle ball of a sleas ball he's done TV work but just 23:38 episodic TV here and there and he he's got films coming out but they seem to be those type of straight to DVD they don't 23:44 even have a a clickable Wikipedia link if that makes sense i guess he's still working though which 23:50 he's paying his bills good for him he's paying the bills but yeah so he plays Wang Gro who we're going to see 23:56 now basically Stone Cold murders a guard and because of that action they now have 24:02 to off the other two guards and it's a really it's a it's tough again what I like about this film is I've seen murder 24:09 on film before of course it's not a big deal in the sense like I might clutch my pearls but what makes it so brutal in 24:15 this film is that it didn't have to happen and it and the way it's filmed too it just feels real like they just 24:22 execute these guys yeah you get an indication that he's not as experienced as the rest of the crew because you have 24:30 God why am I blanking on his name now tom Seismore tom Seismore who he's Wayne 24:35 is giving the guy instructions and he's not listening to him and Seismore's like "Hey [ __ ] look at the [ __ ] coming out 24:41 of his ears he can't hear you." You can tell that the crew has a level of 24:47 experience that Wayne Gro doesn't and also that Wayne Gro has a trigger finger 24:53 and he's hot and he was looking for an excuse to kill somebody but then as Pacino's character points out if you're 24:59 going to catch a murder beef it doesn't matter at that point so why leave any witnesses yeah exactly and here's that 25:05 scene right here that we're talking about 80 seconds 25:11 left get back get back hey slick you see that [ __ ] coming 25:19 out of their ears they can't [ __ ] hear you cool it and right here that poor This poor guy 25:26 shell shocked this poor guard just a complete days he can't hear maybe he 25:31 can't even see mhm their vision might not even be quite there they're really in a state of shock number one this guy 25:40 is just looking like I said to to blow him away 25:48 i got it got it okay so they got the bear bombs for the armor car good let's 25:54 go let's move i don't understand and it's not never really explained in the film at least the first 34 minutes of 25:59 the film why do they even need this Wangro like they could have almost done this without him maybe it's just a plot 26:05 device i get it but this is such an experienced crew like Dairo's character and the crew it seemed very experienced 26:11 and tight the idea that they had to hire an extra gunman when their whole idea was not to do this kind of shooting it 26:17 was just preventative if necessary i wonder how they screened this guy what was his resume where they felt like he 26:22 could be trusted for this big heist yeah at the same time you can see McCaulay doing the math on a job like this and 26:29 doing whatever calculation he does and being like "This is the amount of guys you need there's probably a minimum 26:36 amount of bodies for guard control." That was Wayne Gro's responsibility and you saw there was the one guy that had 26:41 the stopwatch who was keeping track of the three-minute timer seismore character he had obvious coverage that 26:48 he was looking at it's understandable from that perspective but if you're going to nitpick the movie like your 26:54 your co-host at the end is this might be one of the things that he details about why he hates the movie let's not give 27:01 him any any ammo i want him to come in on his own i should have had him come on first but he swears he has to be last 27:08 cuz I guess he wants to leave a big heat shite for everyone to listen to all right i said "Sure you can go last 27:15 that's fine." All right so here's Wangro and this is just brutal brutal brutal 27:20 viewer discretion is advised [Music] 27:26 that'll [ __ ] with me that'll [ __ ] with me 27:34 there's Tommy Rosales yes now they had no choice because of course one shot happened the other guys 27:40 like "Oh crap they're shooting at us i got to pick up my gun start shooting." They weren't gonna fight but like now he just shot my teammate my my security 27:46 guard teammate so I guess I got to fight now they shoot him down but then you have this one guy oh I feel bad for this 27:52 guy he's still walking out almost like surrendering himself but yeah just wrong place wrong time why but why didn't they 27:58 leave him they're They're totally cut i mean cuz they 28:04 It's a good thing that that homeless guy with the TV they didn't see him you're right they heard the word slick we 28:10 talked about that they heard their voices so I guess there is enough there's voices body statures yeah how 28:16 many were there yeah uhuh yeah yeah 28:24 now who gives the order to kill is that Den yeah and then it's or is it Kilmer 28:31 that kills i think you know what see this it's definitely Macaulay that gives the the thumbs up yeah but Kilmer was in 28:39 the truck he was the one that got the bonds that must be Seismore 28:56 and there you see the sort of the military precision there where obviously he's dead but you still do the head shot 29:03 the body doesn't even move what two in the chest one in the head or something that's right that's the classic this is 29:09 probably a good time and yeah please i'm sure everybody listening is aware that in the last what two years 29:16 probably Michael Man co-authored Heat 2 which is a novel which is a prequel and a sequel to Heat 29:25 you get the history of Macaulay and his crew but the book is split there's two timelines there's the preheat and then 29:32 post Heat and I know he's talked about making it into a movie and I know he talked about recasting and I know Adam 29:39 Driver was mentioned it'll be interesting to see if he actually does it especially now that Kilmer's gone not 29:45 that Kilmer could have played himself or his character just because of the age if you're a fan of the movie definitely 29:52 check out the book there it is heat too 30% off sticker for when I bought it is 29:59 it a good read it is it is it's a thick book you can see 30:06 it's 400 486 pages oh wow long is the hard 30:12 cover so it's a long book it took me a couple weeks to read i actually read it on my Kindle i took it out of the library on my Kindle but I brought the 30:19 the hard cover just to support it and let people know that hey I stuff like this should still be put out so I love 30:26 it no I'm I am going to read it after it's on my to read list and so they don't mention in the book about why they 30:32 pick Wayne Gro does it does it lead up to these events at all or is it just is it early earlier or it's it's earlier 30:39 and then I think directly after as we get to the introduction of Pacino's 30:46 character if you look at this movie and if you look at this movie from 30:52 the perspective of it not being written and directed and developed by Michael Man if this was just an idea 30:58 conceptualized by somebody else this movie it's very possible another 31:04 filmmaker wouldn't have done the cops and the robbers aspect of it where you 31:09 could start the film actually from Pacino's character Hannah arriving on 31:16 the scene detailing everything that happened because he pretty much figures out exactly the sequence of events but 31:23 you could make a 90minute version of this from just the cops perspective and it would still work but the thing that 31:29 makes it a Michael man movie is you get the cops and the robbers perspective 31:36 until the very last second of the film you're not rooting for either one 31:43 when you're with Macaulay and his crew you're rooting for them but when you're 31:48 with Hannah and his team you're rooting for them you're not really rooting against anybody at least I wasn't but of 31:55 course the final moments of the film for me at least it all felt right at that moment i 32:04 was team Hannah like of course yeah but that's another interesting thing here is it's hard to do that because Macaulay 32:11 and his crew they do heinous things right it it's always interesting to see when 32:17 filmmakers are able to showcase people who aren't good but also 32:25 at least make you relate to them a little bit and 32:30 that's one of man's strength here is the cops never come off as looking at 32:37 the bad guys in this movie whereas as much as I love him Tarantino is not really great about the law and order 32:44 aspect of things like even in even in like Jackie Brown the Michael Keaton 32:49 character who's a what in a de agent or whatever you don't really like those characters they put Jackie in a bad 32:55 position and it paints law enforcement in a bad light whereas here you can tell 33:00 through man's entire filmography that he's got a reverence for law and the 33:07 people who enforce it actually that's great cuz we're going to get into films obviously like Miami Vice and stuff and or Collateral with the Tom Cruz 33:14 character playing the hitman there's like parts of you like am I supposed to be enjoying this i should be appalled by 33:20 all this behavior but this is the thing is it makes you question humanity in and of itself and maybe we see ourselves a 33:28 little bit in each of these characters within the criminals of this film played by of course Tom and Robert and Val they 33:36 have a commodery a team building and trust that's admirable they're a 33:41 tight-knit group and you admire and you almost want to can I be part of this gang and that's what made Wayne that's 33:47 what made Wayne Grow such an oddity is because he was such a loose cannon and he didn't fit he was an issue from the 33:52 beginning yeah you know what I think a good word to use Ryan is you can respect 33:58 what they do in the sense that regardless of what somebody's profession 34:03 is or chosen profession is if you see that they have a reverence and a respect 34:09 for it and are good at it you can at least appreciate that aspect of it and I 34:14 think it's funny because Hannah even ultimately understands and respects 34:21 Macaulay the scene 30 years in the making yeah but you can tell that there's 34:27 I don't know if it's mutual respect there's mutual understanding but I definitely think that there's an aspect 34:34 of Hannah especially as he looks at this crime scene where there's a level of 34:41 respecting the craftsmanship of what they do he understands it he knows that 34:47 it's not just these three guards weren't killed for a reason it's like the one was killed and then the two other were 34:52 killed just because they're already going to have murder charges so it it's interesting there and I don't know if 34:58 that makes a good cop is it probably is the fact that you shouldn't 35:04 underestimate or disrespect the people that you're hunting or investigating or looking for 35:10 because if you disrespect them you're probably going to miss details or things that might help you catch them so that's 35:16 probably part of Hannah's philosophy he even says it right these aren't gangbangers these are That's right these 35:21 are professionals right away yeah yeah you have to know your enemy to chase 35:27 them to figure them out i don't have any clips for the introduction of L as the 35:33 LAPD Lieutenant Vincent Hannah but he comes on the scene but we see right away that he's sharp as a whip too so you 35:39 have the best cop in the area versus the best criminal in the area this whole idea of course played by the two top 35:46 actors within their field it's a little bit meta but that's what we love about it i just love the idea that we get to 35:51 that diner scene but I just love how both Al and Robert are so respected in their own acting it's almost like Arnold 35:59 and Sly in the same That's this idea that you have these competitors or competitors I should say it's 36:06 interesting because we got Sly and Arnold at least 10 years too late in 36:11 Escape Plan both those guys were in their 60s where here we have Pacino and 36:16 Dairo they're both in their what early 50s at this point so it's Yeah 55 L and 36:22 52 yeah al's probably leaving his prime acting years and Diierro's a a couple way years away but we got it and the 36:29 unfortunate thing with Stallone and Schwarzenegger is they waited just 10 years too long i do want to say about 36:34 Pacino's performance here and we all know that uh when I'm up for it I do a 36:41 Brian Deama podcast and I've talked about Scarface and I've talked about Carito's Way and I've talked about my 36:47 admiration of Pacino as an actor but this movie and I didn't look 36:54 at his filmography to track it but it seems like this movie is the start of 37:02 the I don't the over-the-top unh hinged Alpuccino 37:07 performance sure yeah can you believe he's 85 now eh yeah you think about it 37:13 the Godfather was over over 50 years ago at this point it's crazy this movie is 37:18 30 years ago 30 years ago it shouldn't feel like a 30-y old movie but yeah i just can't believe it's been 30 years if 37:24 they made Back to the Future today i know he would travel back to 1995 37:30 i know it's so weird that was yesterday what's up while we're talking about technology or how long it's been the one 37:38 thing that does make this movie feel like it's 1995 is everybody's television 37:46 even the television that Hannah takes from their house when he gets in the fight with his wife everybody's got like 37:52 32 in CRT TVs and even when the guy's watching the hockey game at the end when 37:59 when calls are This is a mansion this guy's living in it's a multi-million dollar mansion and he's got 38:06 a regular CRT TV where you watch now it's like the size of the screens we 38:11 have are just that's the one thing that really dates this movie is the technology everybody's using at least 38:18 especially from TVs we're talking about Alpacino as a character his last name is Hannah but he was married and the woman 38:25 that he marries took the last name as well Hannah she's a divorce a her daughter of course played by 14-year-old 38:31 Natalie Portman So this is pre Phantom Menace it's also pre the professional 38:36 too right i thought she was younger than Professional professional is 91 or two I think oh is it okay remember when that 38:42 film came out the controversy about her being so young and the way it was she was sexualized in that film she was 14 38:49 in this film and it's funny that we get the I wouldn't say it slows down the 38:56 film anyway in that sense because but we just see Al playing dad to a 39:01 stepdaughter to his younger wife the wife is Justine and she is played by an 39:07 actress named Diane Venora now would you know that name if I didn't say the name would you know her from anything no dian 39:14 Venora you know what she looks and sounds like i hate to say this this sounds terrible when I say this but 39:20 she's like the Timu or Wish.com version of to me more yeah I think we could have get to 39:27 me more you get Diane Venora when you don't get to me is that terrible 39:33 no no it's not and by the way the professional was 1994 oh it was still before by year yeah he 39:40 filmed Luke Bassan did LaM Nikita in 1990 oh okay yeah yeah so yeah I think 39:48 The Professional funny enough was the first time I saw Natalie as an actress and okay this is another thing I really 39:55 respect when movies do this and and sinners did this recently as well but 40:00 when you see people on screen that are matched with people that would you realistically see 40:08 together in real life so you have a twice workaholic cop he's not going to 40:14 be dating a supermodel it's true i respect authentic casting in movies and 40:19 when you see people together where you're like of course they're not going to be with Cameron Diaz or something and 40:25 I could have done without the grabby grabby makeout session at the beginning of the film like watching them like just 40:31 kiss it wasn't even like that sexy they were just kissing and kissing and kissing i don't know if I want to see 40:37 this this is not this is not appealing oh and the other funny thing about their home did you catch that their bedroom is 40:44 just upstairs in the loft this Yeah that's the thing as they're having sex I'm like "Where's where's the kid?" Like 40:50 "Where's Natalie Portman here?" She just walks up the stairs and the mom's like half-dressed just after Citus with Al 40:55 al's in the shower getting the get the stuff off him and she's just like lying about the cigarette or the Natalie comes 41:02 in you guys done great have waffles now or Yeah where's my barret it's Yeah where's my hair piece hey is that that 41:08 yeah why did we waste two minutes looking for her her hair barret the Natalie Portman character probably isn't 41:13 necessary aside from the fact that it lends another level of 41:20 character element to Hannah and it shows that he's not a good guy because he's 41:25 being paid to be a good guy he's genuinely a good guy if you look at it he's the only one that really cares about this girl you can even tell the 41:33 mother to a certain extent is a little bit selfish and probably not a great mother and we never see the dad but 41:40 clearly the dad's a piece of [ __ ] that's the reason for her character is to reinforce that Hannah 41:47 is a good guy and not the good guy yeah he's not a piece of ass cuz he was 41:53 actually like did the dad come by and see your daughter Lauren is the name of 41:59 Natalie's character so he's interested enough to make sure he doesn't want to overstep his bounds like I'm not her dad 42:04 but at the same time as a a man should be with his daughter and he's holding the ex-husband accountable better than 42:10 the mother is in a way mhm yeah yeah uh-huh okay so now we're at the scene where they they being of course Robert 42:18 Dairo's character Neil McCaulay they meet up with Wangro at the diner so Wangro at the diner talking to Tom 42:24 Seisborn Val's characters robert comes in and I love where he basically slams 42:30 his head against the table and then the window in the diner and there's a buddy there who watches it and then Tom 42:35 Seismore looks at him like nah don't worry about this and the guy goes back to his paper or whatever and every time 42:40 I see this scene is like this is what I wish I could do to my kids when they're nasty in the 42:46 restaurant oh you're being really loud in the restaurant i always Okay I'm just 42:53 joking if you watch the the way they all move in that sequence where they're all 42:59 at the table before Macaulay gets there and I guess Seismore sees sees Macaulay 43:06 pull up one of them says "I'm going to go to the bathroom." Yeah seismore clears the booth and goes and sits at 43:12 the counter before sitting back down like that you can tell that's all team 43:17 choreography they're still moving and working as a team and it's all unspoken 43:23 i will say this again no offense to Robert's character but as good as he is 43:29 he hired this guy which doesn't make sense and then he wants to off the guy he's about to kill him in the parking 43:34 lot publicly they could have easily just say "Hey let's go to the horse and play cards." It's so weird that they couldn't 43:40 even kill him properly i found their whole ability with this guy really of all the professionalism their inability 43:47 to kill this guy properly is weird yeah i think at the same time you don't want to scare scare the guy but also Wayne 43:54 Gro he's the reason that the movie ends the way it does sure i I know I know 44:02 it's the trope that's the trope i get it callie can't let it go yeah so here's the here's the diner scene here we go 44:13 i had to get it on man he was making a move i had to get it on 44:26 and I love the way Dairo grabs the back of his hair it's great it's a great little sequence and Tom Seismore rest in 44:32 peace buddy i've always liked him i've always liked him in films what about you yes agreed and he was an intense dude 44:40 and he brought that intensity to his acting it was two years ago just two years ago 44:46 that he died the age of 61 it's unfortunate we just watched this scene back and we haven't really talked about 44:52 him other than the fact that he's passed but if you look at Val in that scene 44:58 it's all reactions it's all in his eyes he's just dialed in oh I see yeah yeah i 45:06 love how he's very stoic val stoic and And I got to And I got to say this while we're talking about Valon i'm sorry to 45:12 cut you off later in this movie we see a strung out and then a a shot Val Kilmer 45:18 character but man did anybody play Sick and Close to Death better than Val 45:23 between this movie and Tombstone that's true like you watch both of these 45:29 performances you're like "Dude he looks like he's on his last legs 45:35 he's method acting." Yeah okay so now this next sequence here is just an 45:42 example of the Michael man it's almost like he's saying "Hey I'm Michael Man the director that does stuff like this 45:48 it's Robert Dairo just overlooking the ocean in his apartment but just the coloring the hue and the musical score 45:54 will kick in quietly." So we got the camera set up just there we see the gun put down the 45:59 table daniel's character just walks to the glass wall to look outside and then he just does a classic stand 46:07 camera pans up we had the subtle cue of the 46:13 music he's thinking about the events thus far in the film of course but this shot here that's a very Michael man shot 46:19 there just a part of the face and then it goes into focus of the 46:24 ocean then his face blurs and the coloring and everything what do you think of is that a Michael 46:29 man shot or what absolutely that's the That's the Michael Man aesthetic to a tea yeah so I just like that example 46:36 okay we're going to talk about Val in just a second i think he's the next scene yeah so we get to see a young 46:41 Ashley Jud 27 years old i'm not sure about her haircut was that the cuts of 46:46 this of the 95 i can't remember now i don't know if Friends was big then but 46:52 I just trying to Yeah in the book you get the whole story of how the two of them end up together oh okay now does 46:58 she think he's a gambler and not a like No she knows who he is in the book not 47:05 to spoil it Sure but she's a working girl in Vegas and he's in Vegas gambling okay 47:13 okay we're going to see a little bit of their domestic life so to speak and I guess they have a kid together which is 47:19 brought up and they have a fight before they go to a party and we've all been there Craig we've all fought with their spouse before we go to a party 47:26 i thought that was like the default yeah that's right yeah come on you got to be 47:31 kidding me honey it ain't worth the risks you take 47:37 for 8,000 like in risk versus reward baby yeah she knows what he does 47:43 of course there yeah there is no point talking to you cuz all you are is a child growing older what's this supposed 47:49 to mean it means we're not making forward progress like real grown-up adults living in our lives because I'm 47:54 married to a gambling junkie who won't listen oh that's the part I got confused about so she's saying he's making money 48:01 off these hits but he gamles it away mhm okay uh yeah i'm not crazy about her 48:06 hair and I like Ashley Jud enough but I feel like they couldn't get Sharon Stone for those roles like Sharon Stone was a 48:13 little too old at that point really 30 years ago sharon Stone was in 48:19 her mid30s probably oh I don't think she's that old now now you're going to 48:24 make me Google her so again Ashley's 27 here and Val is I always like to know 48:32 their ages because of their dating ages so she's 27 as an actress val is 31 48:38 maybe 35 okay that's okay actually that's my spouse and I I'm 8 years older 48:43 than my spouse so that's legit but Ashley she's lovely you don't really hear about her anymore have you heard 48:49 about her recently i think she left the business on her own i liked her my was 48:55 born in 1958 oh she was older 49:01 37 her mom committed suicide within the last couple years 49:07 she said her sister Winona has had public issues it's so that family seems 49:14 like they've carried a lot of weight yeah yeah that's true the singer right 49:20 yeah yeah the judge yeah it's just a weird because she was in everything ashley was in everything for a while 49:26 there but I think she's probably comfortable she's got her money oh and unfortunately it's hard for actresses 49:35 there's actresses that sort of have parts on lockdown like Meil Stre's probably taken all the [ __ ] that Ashley 49:41 Jud would get now yeah merryill Streep has defied all odds with her getting older but still gets great roles yeah 49:47 yeah okay all right so now we're gonna get to the scene where we have Amy Bren Brener how do you say her last name 49:52 brenamman brenamman now she is a little bit younger than Robert I believe uh 49:58 yeah she's only she was born in 64 so she was 30 yeah so she's 20 years Robert's junior hey look legal allowed i 50:06 think the other thing is and we've talked about this on the Sly episodes we've done just because Dairo's 50:11 character was 52 and Pacino's character were 55 doesn't mean that their 50:17 characters were that age oh you mean the actors themselves i know i just I can't help it Craig i always get a kick out of 50:24 it because at the end of the day the people playing like Amy knows her age like she knows how old she is so she's 50:31 acting to be attracted and look Robert's a handsome man don't get me wrong even 50:36 not even then but even at 52 he's a very good-looking guy and she's 30 but you almost wonder is there some daddy issues 50:43 or something she could date somebody like she's she looks young too like she looks a young 30 in this film yeah yeah 50:50 or 20 something year old she says she was 30 on the dot she's 22 years Robert but that's fine good for her she looks 50:57 lovely and she works in the bookstore whatever it is Barnes & Noble or whatever it was and I guess Robert 51:03 Dairo's character goes there all the time gets books she's noticed him this handsome older guy wearing a suit and 51:09 they they bump into each other at the coffee shop and she strikes up a conversation with Robert saying "Hey I I 51:16 got my eye on you you're just this cool looking daddy dude that I want to hit on and this is that scene here and he gets 51:22 kind of like because of his life of course he's like "Why are you asking me so many questions?" Like thinking "Are you a cop are you defenses are always up 51:29 like it's the life that he's he's created for himself where you can't ever 51:35 get complacent." Yeah and so here's that scene here so she's done all this stuff hitting on him and he bites her head off 51:42 a little bit and then he realizes oh she legit is just a librarian or whatever and she's cute so he changes his tone a 51:48 little bit what kind of work you do 51:53 lady why are you so interested in what I read or what I do 52:01 i've seen you in the store from time to time what store missing Engles i went there if you don't 52:08 want to talk to me it's okay sorry I bothered you 52:14 now he realizes like he believes her oh now he makes the face like "Oof I just 52:19 bit this poor lady's head off." And it's interesting how someone who is careful about not exposing himself as a career 52:25 criminal would be like "Why are you so interested in my life?" He would almost want to play a little bit more oh hey 52:31 how's it going and if you don't mind my asking where do you see me from but the fact that he bites her head off almost 52:37 indicates he has a scary past because she plays it very well she's like "Oh this guy's maybe a rough guy." because 52:44 even when he changes his tune she's now hesitant to continue but she does but you can see she's she kind of reassesses 52:50 do I keep talking to this guy because he seemed angry and now he's not yeah i'm sure what happened with Wangro is also 52:57 affecting his mood and his affected you know how he reacts here she was in that 53:03 TV show judging but I love how her name in the show was Amy Gray and her name is like what came first did they call the 53:09 show Judging Amy because she was Amy or did it just happen to work that way okay now what I love is the continue oh let's 53:15 see the tone change here first though it was good 53:20 i didn't mean to be rude i didn't recognize you i work in metals i'm a 53:26 salesman my name's Neil 53:33 i'm 83 yep she would have been better off just giving him the brush yeah now the next 53:41 scene I want to show you so they end up having kitus the first night as one would with Robert and her but before 53:46 they do they have a date at his penthouse or whatever they talk over their family history and all that good 53:53 stuff was there digital film at this time no this was shot on film i believe 53:59 the first movie Michael shot I believe it 54:04 was Collateral yeah Collateral and Miami Vice were shot on on digital digital yeah digital started around what 2000 or 54:12 2001ish i think the second Star Wars prequel 54:19 i thought the first one was as well me but you're right that was shot on film the second one is when Lucas started 54:25 working with digital the reason why I asked check out the scene cuz this is either it looks very digital which is 54:33 okay so it shows Michael Man of course that aesthetic that he goes for but is this a really bad blue screen at the 54:39 same time oh I the scene where they're like on the deck yes so I'm just going to mute it and we don't need to listen 54:45 to the dialogue but look at this i always felt like there was something going on with the scene and I think it might meet it right here 54:54 like that's not very good look I get it's 95 but why not just film at a proper skyline that's why I'm showing 55:01 this because it has a digital look to it but here that's really bad right there you can see it's green screened green or 55:07 blue screen and they but they had to shoot po what do you call it secondary unit has to go get a skyline shot why 55:14 not just shoot them at the skyline all right okay so you can see why we had to do this in parts right Craig there's so 55:21 much that goes on even the first half hour that's why I always told you Heat needed to be a super show you told me 55:27 this has to be a super show eddie told me and we're going to get your thoughts after we record this part you're going 55:33 to share your thoughts on the final shootout but before we get to that I just want to show the classic why did 55:39 L Okay so when Al has his little blow up so we're get to the scene now where Al and his partner played by the famous 55:46 Bubba Gump dude how do you say his name yeah mle 55:52 male Williamson yeah yeah he's the classic him and Forest Gump talk about all the different shrimp they're going to have anyways so he's playing his 56:00 partner but Aluccino's character is talking to some guy about where were you last night blah blah blah trying to get 56:05 information out of him and I'm going to play it before we play 56:10 i'm going to ask you now i should say was this direction given by Michael or is this or did Michael say Al I want you 56:19 to do this out of the blue it makes no sense the way this conversation is going 56:24 or did Al just do it and did he surprise Michael with it here's the thing was yesterday today you're wasting my 56:30 [ __ ] time listen man look you fall in love come on did you fall in 56:35 love last night you went off somewhere just tell me that i I'll settle for it you know what I mean i'll buy that 56:42 give me all you got give me all you got i swear me and my brother i love I love 56:49 it so much i actually had forgotten that scene i forgot that he did that so I'm 56:54 watching this interview with this guy some sort of informant or something so he asked the guy like "Where were you 57:00 last night what's going on tell me what you have did you fall in love that is that why you weren't where I thought you 57:05 were supposed to be?" Whatever the situ It doesn't even matter i don't even It doesn't even matter but the fact that 57:11 why did he Let's just watch that one more time because I think our audience needs to 57:16 see it too just Why does he do that if I was in this interview right now holy crap you scared the crap out of me l V 57:30 i think that's a Pacino thing and I think probably in the script and the direction that Michael Man gave him was 57:37 probably something to akin of you're dealing with a guy from the streets so 57:42 take on sort of a street persona and Al probably got keyed into 57:49 something and Al is the type of actor when he gets an idea and he commits to 57:55 it it might be hard to get him off of it maybe the commentary talks about it and 58:00 I don't have it so maybe I've listened to the commentary and I don't remember does Michael man say "Yeah L surprised 58:07 me with that." But I will say that the next episode part two of he covered will be with Doug and I'm going to start that 58:13 scene with him that's how we're starting because it's in the middle of that scene where your time ended so I'm gonna show that the Doug I just want to hear Doug 58:19 laugh with about it i think it's worth to do it again but before we go let people know where they can find you 58:25 mainly it's my guest spots with you i do have a podcast called The GOAT a Brian Dealama film podcast or fan podcast and 58:33 I know we're on the on this network together so if you're listening to this on this feed if you scroll up or down 58:39 you'll probably see my DeAlma episodes it's been a a couple of weeks since I've done an episode and I had laptop 58:46 problems which prevented it and then also I hit a little bit of a creative wall hopefully I pull myself out of that 58:52 and I'm serving up new content but if you just Google my name Craig Cohen Las 58:57 Vegas you'll probably be able to find a link to all the stuff I do and I'll send 59:03 you the link Ryan if you want to include it tons of podcasts and I also make music that you can listen to and 59:10 hopefully enjoy but either way the thing I really really enjoy the most is doing guest spots on podcasts we do great i 59:17 love having you on so fun you're actually officially the film even though not the episode after cuz we're doing 59:22 more with the Heat but you're the next film the The Insider Man yeah i look 59:27 forward to talking the Insider because I I almost feel like The Insider might be 59:33 the first Michael Man movie I saw in theaters oh wow last weekend Heat and 59:38 Insider I saw all the theaters back to back to back okay yeah 5 I I wasn't 59:44 going to the movies a lot so I was trying to think about the first time I saw Heat and I really think it was like 59:50 on the double VHS release you know it was like the movie was on two tapes like 59:55 you you had to change tapes i don't remember what scene it happens at and aside from that I know I didn't see Last 1:00:01 of the Moheakans in theaters obviously I didn't see Manhunter my dad took us to questionable movies but he even he knew 1:00:07 not to take us to Manhunter yeah I think The Insider was the first movie interesting yeah and I remember when The 1:00:14 Insider was coming out how I was looking forward to it because of Heat i had already watched Heat on VHS and home 1:00:22 video and had already reversed gone through man's filmography so I remember the Insider 1:00:28 was a movie I was looking forward to i was like "Oh the next Michael Man movie is coming out." So yeah I'm looking forward to talking that movie it's I 1:00:35 think it's a really interesting movie it's going to be great to talk Russell Crow in that movie yeah for sure yeah agreed agreed okay all right thanks for 1:00:41 coming on and thanks everyone for joining us for part one of five that's right we're doing this in five parts and I look forward to doing the other ones 1:00:47 with the other co-hosts and stay tuned for the last episode part five where my 1:00:52 secret guest co-host will shite all over this film 1:00:58 apparently 1:01:09 heat up here 1:01:30 [Music] heat up here 1:01:40 [Music] 1:02:00 heat up here 1:02:08 [Music] 1:02:20 heat up [Music] 1:02:32 here heat [Music]